Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Are you a true paraplanner? females under 30 in financial planning and the power of community with Chanelle Pattinson

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Are you a true paraplanner? females under 30 in financial planning and the power of community with Chanelle Pattinson · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest is Chanel Patterson.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Chanel is a IFA for P Invest.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't start out as an IFA, she worked her way up from administrator, did her qualifications partly with the LIBF, partly with the CII.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't stay in one company either.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's had quite a bit of experience with different firms, and we talk about the benefits of that.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about the different power planner roles that she's worked in.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we sort of pose the question to anybody listening: if you are a power planner, are you really a power planner or are you an administrator?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the job title doesn't match the actual daily tasks that you are doing in the position.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about women under the age of 30 within financial planning and why she has set up a community to bring women under 30 together.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we also talk about the power of community and experience working with next gen planners and how that's helped shape her career.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm alright, thanks.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Not bad.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not bad.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Drop my daughter off to school, dressed up as Princess Belle for her dressed like your favourite cartoon character day, so she was happy and cute.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I as I said to you before this, I found it really heartwarming because like a little four and a half-year-old sort of rocking through central Bristol in a Princess Belle outfit, and she didn't have a care in the world.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved that.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: It just uh melted my mind.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: If everyone had that confidence, it would just be amazing.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't care, would we?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, no, crazy.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right, great, Chanel.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we've got to know each other because I appeared on your big breakfast show with the next gen planners, and we'll talk about next gen planners in this conversation actually and what it's all about and why you've got involved with it.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we've had a we you know we've caught up and we've met up before, and we've had a few conversations now over telephone, and I think you're the perfect person to come on the podcast and and talk about your career.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one being you're a female in financial planner, oh my, you know, in financial planner.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, what a rarity, you know.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you're young.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, you know, there is very few of us.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: We are a rarity.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there we go.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a great thing.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, today, just if we just kick things off, can you just sort of give us a brief introduction to yourself, who you are, and really where you are currently in your career?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been in the financial services industry for about five years.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it wasn't really what I wanted to do growing up, but like every single person in the financial services industry says, I fell into it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um currently I am a financial planner.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I was power planner for a few years, did Admin for a few years, I became a try a trainee financial planner last year, had a year of competency, and now I'm all signed off and I can go and do my own thing and I can go and get my own clients.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully, just in time with the world going back to normal, I can actually meet some people and make a new one clients.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, it's exciting.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, have you been have you so okay?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you've only just recently become a financial planner over the last year, haven't you?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So your first year of being a financial planner was in lockdown then, was it?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was, which was not what I was expecting.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: I remember vividly the I joined in January last year, and I remember driving home from work thinking, this is amazing.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Life is perfect, couldn't get any better.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I think I jinxed it, and then two months later, I remember the news was like, right, we're going into lockdown.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, No, it's fine, like it will be nothing.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember sitting on the sofa there, like, right, everything is shut, and I was like, I can't even go to Starbucks, like this is bizarre, yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and then didn't leave my house for a very long time and did everything from home, so it wasn't what I was expecting, but it has been okay to be fair.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Fair play.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, um, I mean, it's a year, isn't it?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Literally to the day, I think, like a year that we went into lockdown.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I can't believe I how quickly that's gone by.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: It has it felt quick?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it feels quick.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: But we got- I think it feels quick.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we got through it.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most professions have actually adapted and it just shows the resilience of of us and what we can do and how we do things.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it kind of catapulted financial planning as a profession into the 21st century because it was lagging massively behind.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, it was amazing how many financial planners that I was speaking to that had never used uh, you know, Zoom or Skype or Teams or anything like that.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's just you know, everyone's doing it and and and also reaping the rewards of it as well, you know.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great way to speak to clients, a great way for me as a recruiter too, because I don't have to travel around the bloody country meeting everybody, and I've built some fantastic relationships from video.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's enhanced the way we do business across multiple professions.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think we want to get back into face-to-face, don't we?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: As well, you know, you can't just do everything on video.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, and I think the main thing that I've noticed is it it's great for clients that the company I work in now, we've already built relationships with.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, like you said, we save time, we don't have to drive to meetings, and it's one of those industries where you are always busy, nothing's ever finished, it's always ongoing, and you and you save time.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: But getting new clients through the door, it is there's no doubt that it's harder on Zoom.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: If someone's going to be giving your you their money to look after, it is a hundred percent harder to build that trust over Zoom.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say every person we spoke to has just wanted to see us in person.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: They want to know we're a real human, they want to sit opposite us, and they just want to build a relationship that way, I think.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that will be the main thing going forward.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe more client reviews will be online, but new clients I think want to come into the office, meet everyone, and build a relationship that way, I think.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think you're absolutely right there.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, with especially around scammers and all that kind of stuff, people are sort of a bit cautious around using technology in general anyway, when it comes to their finances.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I can understand why somebody would want to meet somebody face to face.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you raise a really good point there.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think the continual relationship side of it, the client relationship after the actual client signed up.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think the video is brilliant, isn't it?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can just jump on, you've already got to know them already, everyone's relaxed, they're in their own home.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can take 25, 30 minutes of their time as opposed to an hour getting there, an hour getting back, and having to be somewhere and prepare yourself.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's um, no, it adds that kind of speed value.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, uh one of the things you never hear about really is the reduction in the carbon footprint, the amount of you know, cars that are take taken off the road, you know, the less travel that we have to do, the better impact it's going to have on the environment, which I think is uh a positive thing in its own right, isn't it?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what I love doing on this podcast is just finding out and learning as to why you decided to get into financial planning and how you got into financial planning.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go all the way back to the beginning then.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about how you ended up working in the financial planning profession.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: So um my dad is a financial planner and he has been my whole life.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was younger, I thought that was the most boring job in the world.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Never wanted to do it.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And my favorite description of his job, which I still describe it as now, is he drinks tea and makes money grow.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: And growing up, that is exactly what I thought he did because he'd always be drinking tea.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: And from what he told me, all of his clients' pots grew.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So brilliant.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but I never wanted to do it.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think it was for me.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: I just I just wasn't a fan.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I went off and did quite random things, went to college a few different times, tried some different things.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: I even had an apprenticeship in London at ITB when I was 16, and everyone thought I was crazy because I was like, I don't want to do this.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, What do you mean you don't want to do this?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm not enjoying it, and like I'm a big believer in do what makes you happy.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think everyone thought I was a bit crazy.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: But they're like, You can't quit ITV, like, like what a job.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't want to be a PA.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: So what's the point?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna carry on.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I quit and I went and worked in Debonim's.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in the end, my dad was like, Okay, what are you gonna do?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was oh I don't know, really.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, Why don't you just try R01 for the first sort of CII book?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: See what you think.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really know why he gave me R01 because it's dire to say the least.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: But um he was like, just give it a go.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I started studying and I was working in Debonim's, and this I do think is sort of a bit of fake happening.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was working at Debon's chatting to a lady.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know how I got talking about ROs because it's quite a random thing, but she said, Oh, I work at Old Mutual, so now quilter.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Do you want to come in for an interview?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And like she was like, Realistically, you'll probably get the job.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, That would be amazing.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like at this point, I wasn't sure how I was going to get my foot in the door.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And my dad had always made it clear like you're not coming straight into the business, like you need to go and work out for yourself, kind of thing.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, I'll help you with studying and I'll support you with the knowledge, but work wise, you need to go and do this yourself.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad he did.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I went and did an interview for Old Mutual when I got the job, and I worked there for two years.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I was in sort of general admin, money in, money out, that kind of thing.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: They went amazing.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: They put me through R01, they put me through RO2, and they paid for it and I passed, which was great.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Then I was like, I think this is what I want to do.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I enjoyed R01 and two, and the knowledge in there, I thought it's quite intense, and I feel like I'm getting it and I'm doing okay at it.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: So let's sort of give it a go.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I did that.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whilst I was at Old Mutual, they started running their old mutual wealth financial advisor course.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, perfect, I'll do that.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I did that, that was great.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: That got me my level four with L IBF.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I sort of had a mixture of the two, but I did have my level four.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I then found a trainee paraplanning role that I applied for and got that job.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, that was like gold us, like finding a trainee anything, paraplanner or financial advisor just wasn't really a thing.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I went, I started that job, and um to be honest, I don't know what I expected.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I even really knew what a para planner was.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: In my head, it was like, right, that's my next step.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone says that's my next step.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's what you need to do before you be a good financial advisor.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna go for it.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Started that job, and I sat there on my first few days, and I thought, I don't even know like what an illustration is, I don't know what key features is, I don't know what a kid is.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: I thought realistically, I really don't know a lot of what a power planner does.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: So they were great because it was a trainee role.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I was doing a bit of admin, and they would show me a lot of stuff, so they would show me what an illustration is, um, and all those sort of things.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when you think about it, I did the exams and I had the knowledge, I knew what this I saw I was setting up was, but I no one's ever showed me how to do an illustration.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And there's all these different platforms that I know nothing about, didn't even know half of them existed, and that's just a whole nother part of the job that you don't think about.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So they were great.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did I sort of got a bit more finding my feet there, did some illustrations and some admin.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't really write many reports, so I didn't really feel like I got into a proper power planning role, if you like.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well let's let's pause it there a minute.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you were working at Quilter.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was old, it was old mutual, yeah?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was old mutual then.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now now quilter.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were working at Old Mutual, you went in as you got got lucky at Debonham's, right place, right time.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Someone someone said, come along in and we give you the job.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: You'd already got R01 under your belt, or you're already studying towards R01?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Just studying.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So just reading the book, seeing what I thought, and they then paid for me to take it and pass it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, what was quite was quite apparent, although it was a chance meeting, having that conversation with her about the fact that you already studying towards R01 and you were aware of what R01 was, and that your dad was a financial planner, even that minimum bit of information about the role of a financial planner or the career of the profession was enough for someone to say, come on in, you'll probably get the job.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's just like anybody that's kind of setting off, I think, on their journey, just starting is the key thing because it's a conversational piece and you don't know when you're going to bump into somebody.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: It could be commenting on someone's post on LinkedIn or sending a message, but if you're already starting the journey, there's an element of buy-in from the other person that you are interested and keen because there's a commitment, isn't there, to doing the qualifications that show that you've kind of at least thought about it.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if anyone comes to me now and says, I'm looking to sort of start a career in financial planning, I will always say, no matter what you're doing now, pick up one book, whether it's R01, anything really, any of those, CF1, which I think is sort of the level down slightly, and just then when you speak to them, you're showing them that you've got some interest and you're giving it a go.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that definitely puts you ahead of other people who haven't.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I agree 100%.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just get get going, and then sort of um it opens up opportunities.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when you then joined Old Mutual, you went in as was it like an was there a um, I know that they've got the Quilter Advisor School, for instance, now.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but was there like a specific training program that you embarked on, or was it just chucking you into an admin team and we'll show you as you go?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was basically just chucking me into an admin role, um, just general sort of processing money out.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one thing they were really good at is they were like, you are just admin, and you're probably not going to have a career because at that point they weren't really pushing people through to financial planners.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was just looked at as if I wish would just be admin, but they were more than happy to put me through my exams and give me time to study.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And they probably they probably show me more support in that side of things than a lot of other companies that I've worked for.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: What why do you think that is then?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think they've shown you more support than some of the other companies you've worked for?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: To be honest, I think it was just the general company ethos.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think they just really did believe in their staff.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think they wanted to train them as much as they could, they wanted them to have as much knowledge as possible because even the exams I was doing didn't really have much to do with what I was doing on a day-to-day basis at all.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like the closest link would be the fact I was disinvesting in ISA.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was no massive link.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like they did not have to put me through those exams at all.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: The very fact that they showed an interest in you and appeal to that side of your personal development was for you something that made you feel quite looked after and sort of um invested in.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I was there for a good couple of years, I think.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, if I didn't have such a strong desire to be a financial planner, I would have 100% stayed there longer because they they just looked after me and they I just felt all the time that they wanted me to do better and take exams.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and I do think that can be quite hard to come by nowadays, and it counts for such a lot.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: When you were in that role then, were you of the mindset, obviously you spoke to your dad.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Your dad's a financial planner.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that your dad didn't just say, Come and work for me, you know.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: He actually said, Well, you know, we'll put you through some of the exams.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'll help you out in that respect, but you're gonna have to find your own way.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's quite uh, you know, a good thing for a father to do because if they make it too easy, then it becomes too easy, doesn't it?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So he said, Go off there and try and find your own path.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to be a financial planner, off you go and find a job.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and and that's exactly what what you did.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when you joined Old Mutual, at that stage, though, knowing what your dad did, which was play with money and drink tea, did you think to did you think to yourself that is what you wanted to do?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: You made that decision that I want to be a financial planner.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm going into old mutual, my goal long term is to be a financial planner.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Did you set your stall out in that direction?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think straight off the bat.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think at first I thought, oh, handy, got the job at Old Mutual, that'll do.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they put me through a couple of exams.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: I thought, brilliant.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think what it was is when I started to do RO2 and get a bit more technical and things like that, then I thought I like this, this is where I want to go with this.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: However, I think I still had loads more to realise and think about in the that time then to being a financial planner now.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I had times where I thought, oh, maybe I'll just be a paraplanner, and then I had times where I was like, I want to be a financial planner, this is what I want to do.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and one of the main things as well was I had a really, really lovely boss at Old Mutual, and I said to her, I said, Oh, do you think because I was I was like 18 at this point, I was like, Do you think I could be a financial planner?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And she was so kind and she wrote wrote me this reference, and it was the nicest reference, and it really I think it was one of those points in my life where I thought, oh, maybe I can do this, maybe this is a job I could do.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And she just wrote some such lovely things in there and things in there that would make you a good financial advisor.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: So to build a connection quickly and sort of warm and things like that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I took that to nearly every job I then went to from there, and it was yeah, it's one of those things that I will always remember.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was so it was so nice of that.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So someone invested a little bit of time in you to talk to you about the role of a financial planner, but also to get to know you and your personality and to pull out the bits of you that would make a great planner and took the time and energy to put it down in a reference, and that yourself, yeah, that's a great little tool, actually.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a great thing for somebody to do if they're in a role and they want someone to kind of give them a reference that they, yeah, brilliant, great bit of advice, I think that is.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, speak to somebody to be able to give you a reference.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you and did you think that reference really helped you when you went to those other job opportunities in the future?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think it helped me loads, mainly because the jobs I went to from there were for power planning and the skills that she talked about were more aimed at a financial planner.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: However, I think it the maze is it just really built my confidence.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's just because whenever I speak to my dad, of course he's gonna say, I'm gonna make a great like great financial planner because he's my dad.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And but when someone else says it, who's like a a manager at old mutual wealth, who's been there a long time, who's met loads of people, and that they just they wrote a kind reference because they wanted to, it just counted for such a lot.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it just happened by accident, to be honest.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't, I never expected to get such a nice reference that I would hold with me for so long.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that I did.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, that sort of thing actually would maybe help other people to go and ask for something like that and see, see what they say.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're absolutely right though.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone who's listening to this that might be a financial planner is to inspire the next generation.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, remember what it was like when you were working in an administration role.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps you didn't feel that you had a clear idea or pathway to becoming the financial planner that you are now.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And by investing that little bit of time and by um, you know, by inspiring somebody, 15, 20 minutes, taking the time, taking the time out to write a reference is pretty fantastic.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: It really does plant the seed and sort of taps into an individual's confidence and ambition and makes them believe that they can push forward.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes all we need is a bit of an arm around our shoulder and a bit of encouragement, isn't it?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, definitely.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it it just counts for such a lot.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it definitely, I think the main thing for me was the confidence it gave me to go out there and give it a go.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were working there, obviously I'm doing I'm sort of digging deep on that first opportunity because I think a lot of people think about their first opportunity to getting into financial planning.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you were there for how long?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: About two, maybe two and a half years, I think.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: About two and a half years.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you did it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: How many exams did you do when you were there?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I did two maybe in the first year, and then I did the so it was the so now it's the Quilter Financial Advisor School.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Back then it was the old mutual.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I was maybe the first cohort.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like right at the start.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like they sent an email internally, like, does anyone want to do this?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Me, I will do that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds great.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I did that alongside working at Old Mutual.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great stuff.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So again, like joining the first company that you joined did have a personal development plan in place for anybody by the sounds of it.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you started out as an administrator, regardless of whether or not they had an opportunity for you to become a financial planner, they had something in place that kind of ran alongside your role that got you through qualifications and got your skill set up.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, definitely.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, they were brilliant.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: They were, I think old mutual were quilter now, we're amazing.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right, fabulous.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great stuff.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you did your RO exams, RO1, RO2 within the first couple of years.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned there the L IBF qualification as well.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um you you what did you do then?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: You switched over from ROs over to L IBF whilst you were at whilst you were at Old Mutual through their sort of in-house training academy.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um I saw the advertisement for that and I thought, great, I'll do that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of advertised like a we will get you to be a financial planner kind of thing.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, that sounds brilliant.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then I then realized it was a different route.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: So when I spoke to them, they said that my RO1 counted as the first sort of part of L IBS.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that was great.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I went in halfway through and continued to do the rest of it.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that then got me a level four with L IBF.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I did actually go back and switch to CII in the end, but we can come back to that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when you went, when you decided to go, yeah, this is the question I was going to ask you, because there's a whole battle, isn't there, between like R you know, you know, CII, L IBF, C I S I, which is the best one, you know, and everything.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So what you know, when when the when you were doing your RO exams and you switched over to L IBF, got to last a question.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: What did what did the old man say?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: What did your dad say about that?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what he didn't say a lot at the time, but in hindsight, I think he did always want me to go back and do the CII ones.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't ever say he did, but he seemed quite happy when I did go back and do the CII exams.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is also a part of how I am as a person and how I work and study.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think he knew there is a bit more technical information in the ROs.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he knew the way I study and I learn, I would benefit from that as a person.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's for everyone.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think different routes for different people, but I think he knew me as a person would suit better with the RO exams.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: When you were in that administration role, did there come a point where you knew that you were ready, or I don't know, your confidence had grown based on the knowledge that you had gained, that you were ready to take the next step to becoming what happened was a for you as a trainee power planner.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a point where you thought, you know, I'm ready for this?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think, to be honest.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think it just it just happened.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've sort of got to a time period where I've been at Old Mutual and I thought I kind of need to take the next steps now if if I want, if I'm gonna go further, otherwise I probably would just stay at Old Mutual because it was safe and it was comfortable and it was good.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I saw the advertisement, and like I said, it was unusual to see a trainee paraplanner role.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I just I just went for it really.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I did soon realise I didn't know a lot in terms of the power planning role.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: But you you learn, don't you?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: You do, I do think it's one of those jobs you do learn on the job, as long as someone's got the time and the patience to show you, which I think is important.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you at that point you were sort of looking, so you're at Old Mutual.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of sounds to me a little bit like you perhaps sort of hit a hit a bit of a feeling, if you like, in respect of your development.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: You wanted to become a power planner.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't a clear route to becoming a power planner, and you reckon and you did a little bit of searching around or a trainee role, which was rare attentive, you know, it's only now you're starting trainee roles, and that's only because recruits are telling companies to advertise as trainee roles.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you saw that and you thought, well, I'm gonna have a go at that, and I want to step up into the role of power planner.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why what made you think, or what made you decide that it was the power planning route that you wanted to go down and not straight into financial planning?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: To be completely honest, I don't think I felt it was possible.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: When I looked online, I couldn't see any trainee advisor roles and anything that looked like a possible starter role, if you like, always said, okay, we have to be competent.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, how am I gonna go into a sort of like a basic role as competent?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: If I it just didn't make any sense, it contradicts each other because being in a trainee role would then maybe you would do your competency and then you'd become an advisor.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't see, as far as I was aware, I didn't know of any other way to become competent before starting that role.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I just I think to be honest, I just didn't think it was a possible route.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so for you it was like I've got to go down the trainee, I've got to go down the power planning route before I become a financial planner.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the thing is as well, you've gone from administrator, you've gone into power planner, and now you are a financial advisor.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know we're sort of skipping forward a little bit, but do you think that the route that you've gone down from admin to power planner to financial planner was the right route for you?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think that you were you could have been able to jump from admin, get your level four, and go straight into financial planning?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was the right route for me.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think at some paraplanning roles, I didn't feel like I was learning loads, but in other paraplanning roles, I felt like I was learning tons.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's from lots of different things.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: So from writing a report to technical knowledge to tax calculations to using platforms, and I think I think it would have been even more daunting than it is now going into a training financial advisor role, not having done that.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think that really built up my knowledge and well, mainly my knowledge to be honest, of platforms, tax, things like that.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then I feel like I've taken that knowledge, gone into a trainee financial planner role, and that now it's more about my confidence and sitting in front of clients and those sort of skills.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it has been good for me.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And also it's meant that I can step in as a trainee financial planner at my dad's company and I know what I'm doing most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time I've done this illustration or I've written that report or I've seen a case like this before, I've done that tax calculation, and I think that was also a big relief for my dad to know that he doesn't need to watch me all the time, I don't always need his help, and it is more about spending the time together in client meetings, building up my confidence, knowing what to say, then maybe passing them on to me, and then they're my clients.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I think it was it was definitely the right route.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is that also because, in your role at the moment as a financial advisor, essentially you're a trainee financial advisor at the moment, aren't you?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that because like your role is more of a hybrid in the sense that you do your own power planning as well as seeing clients when you can see clients?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: But because you're a trainee as Dutch, you've still got one foot in the camp of being a power planner.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So perhaps you're doing your own poinning, some power planning for other people, and you're stepping into the world of becoming a face-to-face financial planner.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right assumption?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, it is.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um uh my dad and his firm, they have always done a lot of their own power planning.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: They are set up in the way that they do write their own reports, um, they don't normally do their illustrations and stuff like that, but mainly their reports they are written by them.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually did take a stance when I was paraplanning because a lot of the firms I worked for um sometimes felt like the paraplanner does everything apart from speak to the client.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I always kind of had the mindset that I actually did want to do my own reports and do my own research, at least at the start, whilst I maybe have a bit more time, because sometimes it felt like I was writing these reports, they're like, Yep, we've checked them, and they sort of send it back in five minutes.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, well, you you probably haven't read all of it, and you're gonna sit in front of that client.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: And if I've made a mistake, like that's you should have read it.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And especially with my dad's firm, it's a very personal firm, and we're very close to all of our clients.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of want to know that I sit in front of this client, we have a real good chat, and I can then take that away and put that straight into a report that I have written myself, and it's all come from me.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Whether that changes as as I get busier and things like that, I don't know.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I I know how important a good paraplanner can be, and it may change, but at the moment that is still still my stance.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that makes sense, doesn't it?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have to have the your confidence isn't gonna be sky high when you're going into client meetings.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you do want to feel like you've got some control over the delivery of the presentation or the report or whatever it is you're sitting down with your client to deliver.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're used to doing your own, you know, your own report, then that's only gonna give you the confidence in it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can't trusting someone else to do that when you were not 100% confident yourself going perhaps into that meeting would be a bit like yeah, I can get that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so cool.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing you've sort of you've alluded to that, and you've mentioned is that throughout your career, you've done power planning roles with different companies.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And those different power planning, those power planner roles have been vastly different.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And something that I've sort of come up against and happen over the years is the term power planner gets used and banded around quite a lot.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we would sit down with a candidate who says, I want to be a power planner, you know, and you go for the TV, so you've done two years a power planning here, give us an overview of what it is you've done in that role.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when they give me an overview, give my guys an overview of that position.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: In our head, they're not doing a power planning role.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're doing like an administration position or a senior administration position with a bit of PA in there.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's a kind of job title that's getting used incorrectly, I personally think.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now you've gone through administration to becoming a financial planner, and you've worked with different companies in different power planner roles.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about those different roles and the different responsibilities you had at different companies to see what the differences actually are.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you moved on from um Quilter, Old Mutual, Quilter, over to Compass Wealth Management.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was when you went into the power planner position, but that was a trainee role.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So talk to me about that then.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Was that vastly different, say, from when you then went on to Origin and became a power planner?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's in the sense of lots of different things as well.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: So in the trainee role, I had a lot of support, which is perfect.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what you need.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like I said, there is so many unknowns.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in the financial planning world in general, there is always something new, there's always something different.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, and it was for me, it was sort of things like didn't really do the tax calculations at um the trainee role.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't really research platforms, so they were sort of pre-selected for us, so they were just given to us and we would write the report based on that.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, funds, we didn't select any funds, we just again it was sort of pre-selected, given to us, and we'd write it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um there was a lot of templates, um, so we wouldn't write a lot of our own wording, we wouldn't amend a lot, it was sort of all pre-done for us.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um there was some admin in there, sort of um, like you said, a bit of PA ing with the with the advisors, that kind of thing, basic letters like bed and ices, that kind of thing.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you then take that to also sorry, there wasn't a lot of what I found later in my career was a lot of people came in to talk to us about different things, whether that was platforms, whether that was a platform person, if you like, representative, but they'd come in to tell you all about these things to do with draw-down pensions or or that kind of thing, and you'd learn a lot about the technical knowledge you need to then apply to the role.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: So then if we jumped forward to origin, my final power planning role, it felt completely different.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like we would do all the tax calculations, we would research all the products, and we the research was so detailed, you had to really make sure that product was right for that, for that client, and it would go off to compliance and it would it would be scrutinized.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like you had to make note of basically everything that was in your head, why you picked it, the charges, the what it stands for, why it's for that client, that kind of thing.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: The reports had to be very personal.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: They had to, you have to go through all the advisor's notes, you have to check the advisor had uploaded all the documents you need, that kind of thing, ID.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then you had to take the advisor's words and put them into the report and make sure it was correct.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you had to make sure it was as if you sat in that meeting.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: You had to take everything they had, be that advisor and write that report, and um, yeah, then it was it would always be scrutinizing.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: It just every single detail to would be just looked at and make sure it was correct.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like in that role, I learned tons, so so so much.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: We had a lot of complex cases with like sasses and sips, and it's like a whole nother world.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you have and on on the daily, I would I would realize I still have so much to learn.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have so much more knowledge to learn, so many ways I could improve my report writing, and that we had people in to talk about grammar and then how to say the right thing.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we used to do exercises where we would all get given because it's pretty brutal, we'd all get given each other's reports to basically scrutinize, like to the point where the paragraphs should be aligned right, like right down to the final details, because they felt very strongly that if this was going out to a client with origin's name on it, it had to be perfect.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I have taken a lot of that with me going forward.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I never thought I would, but now I'm looking at the alignment of my own reports.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: I thought, oh, I'd never do this, but I get it.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like if something was spelt wrong, like you're in trouble.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you can't be given this client who's got hundreds of thousands of pounds, maybe even millions, and we felt we've spelt the fund wrong.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: It can't be, it can't, it just can't happen.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then you would you wouldn't be given funds.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: We'd have a specialist fund guy who would present to us a lot of funds, and we would then choose which fund was appropriate for this client.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Again, that was a whole nother thing you have to know.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why, why was it?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Did he want a DFM?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Did he want a managed fund?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Did you want a portfolio of funds?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just it's like a whole nother thing you have to know.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think when you get into a real, a real, real power planning job, there's tons, there's tons in there, and it just all comes with with time, I think, personally.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you on one hand, you you know, and this tells you they advertise it as a trainee power planner role, didn't they?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: The the compass when you left Quilter, you went to the trainee power planner position.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very much templated.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the differences, do you think one's IFA origin IFA?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it was Compass IFA.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I would say like I can understand the templating and everything around, say, a restricted proposition where you only had a select.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, so that's strange, isn't it?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so you're going into training when you were in that trainee power planner role with Compass, for example.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Were there power planners at the level that you were at at Origin within Compass?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or were you all sort of doing this template work?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think maybe not as sort of detailed stuff as Origin, but there definitely was people that have been there for longer than me, they're probably doing the more complicated cases.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Perhaps they were doing the tax calculations.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, Origin was definitely just a whole nother level.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's in my head, if I then went for another job and what didn't go the route I am have gone down now, that is what I would expect from a true power planning role.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason why they can't like power plans can be so well paid and it can be such a good career, and that is what I think of when I think of that route, that role.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's good to know.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that is good to know.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think anybody listening to the if they're in a position where they're doing a lot of templated stuff and perhaps they're getting a bit bored, they don't feel they're getting pushed to their full capacity, but they're calling themselves a power planner, then perhaps they're not, and they should be looking to either get more work or get more experience from the firm they're in, or even look to sort of take their experience of being a trainee and step across into a firm where they can be trained up to be what I would consider to be called a true power planner.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: The other the the one you described to me, the trainee power planner, I think it's a job title.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's actually, I think the role itself is like senior administration, isn't it?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Almost.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: And there's there's always, I feel like a crossover between the two, to be honest.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it sort of dips in and out, and maybe you'll do you'll do some of their jobs, they'll do some of your jobs.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: And also it's quite easy for them to move into a power planner role because it's not that crazy.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's not it's not that difficult.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, yeah, it's quite similar.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So do you find that also as well when you went in for the trainee advisor position into the power planner position, at that point you're level four qualified L IBF stroke ROs, yeah?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of ROs, L I B F.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: When did you then make the decision to were you power planning when you made the decision to do the rest of your ROs?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that decision mainly came from people don't take the L IBF as seriously as they do CII.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like I definitely have seen that first hand.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um there has been times where it's like we don't really count that as level four.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: So when I start, I don't think it is, but how do you feel about that?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do you you know, how do you feel about that when you when you're in an interview or someone's sort of putting down the fact that you've got the L IBF qualification?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you feel about that?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think if it wasn't in an interview setting and it was a general chat, I'd say, okay, well, why is it classed as level four then?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it respected at the same level?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not, then tell me why it is it still sat there and it is classed as a level four, and you can give advice on that.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't really I I kind of get it when you look at the difference in technical information within the two exams, but again, like I said, I think it just depends on the person.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, there's I won't lie, and there's definitely exams I have done with CII that I've retained all this technical knowledge.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't use it every day.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no way.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's stuff in there that is long gone from my mind.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, if I think about it, probably the stuff that's within the LIBF exam is more the stuff I would do every day, like a hundred percent.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I do, I think it's very unfair and it should not be seen like that.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe they should make a bit more of a conscious effort to understand how that person works in in regards to how they study and how they learn and and what that means.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, they may have learned a whole lot more of knowledge on the job they've been in before.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: You just you just don't know.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if it wasn't in an interview setting, I I I probably would say that sort of question.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, I wanted the job, so not going to.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: Tell them what they want to hear.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, it's it's a strange one.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: I hope going forward it's not always like that.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I ended up doing the CII exams because I just felt personally they were better for me, and I felt like I would benefit from that knowledge more than anything.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to make sure now when I sit in front of clients, I know what I'm talking about, and the CIR CII exams was the best way for me to do that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, what the exams were the best way for you to do that, or was it the study material, the depth of what you actually learned?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: A bit of both.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I really love that loads and loads of technical information, and I like studying it and I like retaining it and understanding it, putting it into practice and then and then doing the exam and things like that.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think because life gets so busy, if I'd done the L IBS and not done the ROs, I probably wouldn't go out of my way to find out some of the information that maybe I needed on a certain day that was maybe in that CII exam, if you know what I mean.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, no, I've got you.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've got you.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: All right, great stuff then.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you did a trainee power planner position, then you decided to move on from there because yeah, well, why?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you're at Compass, you're you're in a trainee power planner position.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: You've been quite ambitious.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you just jumping around if I look at your TV, you know?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: But let's get let's get down to it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you're obviously quite ambitious.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're a trainee power planner, then then you move to origin and you do this full power planner position.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: So just talk to me about how that came about.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because if someone's listening to this and they're sat in a position that you were in and they want to step up into this, what you consider to be a true power planner position, why and how did that come about?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to admit, I am a little bit of a jumper.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: My other half is me sick all the time.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: But it all it all comes down to the fact that I really do believe you have to be happy.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm not happy, don't get me wrong, it's not as easy now.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a house, I can't just say, oh, not happy.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Here we go again.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: But back then, if I wasn't happy, I'd just be like, let's see what's else else is out there.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing is with a power planning role, is you are in quite high demand.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that when I was going out there, I was like one of two interviewers, and I'm thinking, my god, this like it's fine.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I sort of felt with the trainee role, I wasn't going as far as I wanted, I wasn't learning as much as I wanted.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to pick those funds and do those tax calculations, and also at that point, I was thinking about okay, what are my next steps?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Am I going to be a financial planner somewhere else before I go to my dad?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Or I need to kind of bear that in mind.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Another part of it, I have to admit, is I wanted to work from home because I wanted a dog.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I was kind of on a high alert for a paraplanning role that was at home.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I do feel like once you've got the knowledge, you can 100% do it from home.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: It is a definite working from home role.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I came across Origin and um I just really liked what they stood for.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I had they had a quite intense recruitment process.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: You had an online exam to start with, I think, then a telephone chat, and then I went in for a third interview before I got the role.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I just really liked them.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a lovely lady who was my manager, head of power planning.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think straight off the bat you could see it was a real, like, proper power planning role.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like you will, even just from the test they sent me, like there was loads of like real questions in there that you would maybe experience in a real power planning role on a day-to-day basis about pension allowance, that kind of thing.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I also got the feeling from them, it's hard, isn't it?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's in just from an interview, you've got to try and grasp these things.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I got the feeling from them that they were willing to support me.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Look, I I'm not 100% sure yet, but I'm thinking maybe I want to be a financial planner, I want to be a financial advisor, like, will you support me?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, Yeah, like obviously we expect you to be a paraplanner for a while and and build you up and see what what you're good at, what you're not, that kind of thing.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, We'd be more than happy to support you.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, and it was a big firm, so you sort of felt like they maybe had capacity to.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it was also three days working from home, two days in the office, which was amazing.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I soon went down to one day, I think about six months in, I went to one day in the office, four days at home, because I managed to get the dogs, which I was very happy about.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so and it was great.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like the one, the one sometimes two days in the office meant you got to see people, you got to see faces, but then the the four three days at home, you could really like get into that case, and some of them were really intense, like really, really complicated cases.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: But you could like you could be at home, silence, you could get into that case, you could do those tax calculations, and there was always someone on the other end of the phone if you needed help.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: There was always more experienced power planners, there was ones in the same boat as you that maybe just chat through a case to think, oh, am I going crazy?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: But also the advisors, the advisors were great, there's loads of advisors, and again, if you could manage to pin them down, because they're obviously busy people, but if you could get hold of them, they were always happy to chat through the case.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it felt quite like my case is their case, and their case is my case.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was together, we were doing this sort of together.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: They wanted to make sure what I was putting into.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Report was what they wanted, which is the right way to be, because their name's going to be on it.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, no, it was good.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right, great stuff.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it sounded to me a little bit like again, you know, you joined a firm which were thinking, right, we've got somebody here.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: As you absolutely absolutely rightfully pointed out, power planners in high demand still are in high demand and always will be, I think.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um very few power planners out there.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you were right to go out and have a little look on the market.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: When you are in high demand, you can push A, you can push your salary up, but also the opportunities are out there for you to step into a firm that would invest in you.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're a forward-thinking company that can take you on the route of becoming a financial planner or give you more exposure to the financial planners, perhaps getting into client meetings and help you progress that those tough skills, those skill sets, those attributes that you need to be able to transfer into the financial planning role, then why not take advantage of that?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's um that's my advice to any power planner, really.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And also about being happy.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned that you like to work from home.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: So many companies pre-COVID.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're so against like power planners working from home.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we were like, well, why?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why are you so against power planets working from home?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: We had to convince so many that it was a good idea.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: They just wanted them in the office.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think perhaps a bit of an element of control.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're a living proven experience that actually working from home, you're able to focus effectively on the task at hand and get stuck into some of these more complex cases.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, did you know, is there a massive difference between the office and working for home?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say so.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's there's distractions, isn't there?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know some people can sort of ignore that and let that go over the over their head.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: But if someone next to me is like eating a bacon sandwich and wants to have a chat, I probably want to have a bacon sandwich and have a chat too.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's difficult.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if there's sort of people that are my friends are at work, like I want to have a quick little chat, or there is 100% more distractions, and I think a mixture of the two is nice.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think that keeps you in touch with people, lets you see real people, and you get that time to focus at home.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: And also at the end of the day, nowadays, we have such intelligent software that they knew what I was doing anyway.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: They they knew I was writing my reports, they knew I was online, as long as you're not, and to be honest, because of that, because they knew what you were doing and they knew you're you're you were filing out the reports and you're doing well, if I did disappear for 20 minutes, it wasn't the end of the world.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I hope the other side of coming out of COVID, more companies will be like that because it will it will entice a lot more people.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I went for that job, one of the main points was because they were willing to be flexible, and it was a do you think it's a good do you think power planning is a great job for somebody who's looking for flexible working hours?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know at this point in time how many companies would be that flexible.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: In the switching a little bit, one of the reasons I wanted to be a financial advisor slash panel was because when I was younger, my my dad would always be at my network matches.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: He would he would always be there because he didn't he had the flexibility as in that role.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: He could he could speak to a client at nine o'clock at night, probably not, but if he needed to, and it's fine.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Some people do, do you know what I mean?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: We'd have client meetings at seven, eight o'clock, and it but it meant that he could finish at two and he could come watch watch me play.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like in my eyes, when I was younger, I would I would like that growth when my when I have kids and and when that becomes my life.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not sure if a a parent number would be that flexible.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to think they would.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think it'd be great if a parent, like a company said, you know what, if you want to log off at two and log back in at eight and and do that report, fine.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think that'd be brilliant going forward, but I'm not sure we're quite quite there yet.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find that it was a bit like not calling you a donkey here?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: But do you think they sometimes did?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're not a donkey.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think um do you think sometimes a company loads work up on a power planner a little bit like a donkey?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you just keep on loading things up on top of a donkey, don't you?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they keep on carrying it and they plod along and they trot along.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: And all their legs break and donkeys, yeah.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like sometimes the you know, well, we've got a power planner in it, we're paying them, you know, especially a decent wage now.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's chuck as much work as we can on them and um and work them to death.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think in sometimes in a power planner role you it you can be overworked?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: It can be a lot of is there a lot of pressure involved in it?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: So uh something that I found interesting in my last role was it's the it was the first role I'd been in where there was there were targets in terms of reports, which when I first joined was a strange concept to me because every report is different.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could get one pension transfer report, it's nice and easy, like just one, and and then another one could have eight, and they could be the most complicated pensions in the whole entire world.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: But they were classed as the same thing.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: So don't get wrong, you could flag it and say this one is different, I need longer.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: But generally, there was a lot of paraplanners and they had to work to their to their um targets.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and that was it was strange because at the same time they're saying keep your reports great, keep your keep your everything, all your information correct, all your your research, and stuff like that, but you're on a time limit and it needs to be done.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, okay, well, something has to give here either my report's not going to be a hundred percent, or you give me another day to do it and don't come down on me, but I haven't done it, kind of thing.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then on the same point, you send it off to compliance, it comes back with some red crosses, and that normally is all on the paraplanner, and sometimes it's it's not our fault, it's the fact that the advisor hasn't given you the right information, or you've run it past the advisor and they've said, Yep, let's go for that.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: However, compliance don't like it, but normally I feel like it does come back on the paraplanner.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: And me as a person, I'm quite a sensitive person, and that's been like one of my things, the main like the whole point of my career, all the way through.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's something that's been sort of probably my biggest weakness.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd find that quite hard if I'd spent like three days writing this report and the advisor's like, it's great, you've done really well.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then compliance are like, it's awful.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: And your boss is like, What was that?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh like, I've tried so hard.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's a funny one, it's it's strange.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, not often something we think about the pressure upon a power planner to get it right first time.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you felt that pressure then.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: There is pressure in the role of being a power planner to get it right first time, that you are doing the job that you should be doing, you know, um, because someone might come down and you're the person to play.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that power planners get blamed a lot for the for the delay, let's say, or the lack of information that's on a report?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or 100%.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a lot of there's a lot of feeling that all the financial advisors are so busy, they've got a lot to do, like you're kind of helping them out.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes they forget that some power planners do a lot of work, like the reports they write, like I've seen reports are 40 pages long with like the most complex, complex tax calculations within there, and they just put their name on it and and take it with them and get the fee.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, could someone just say, and honestly, when some advisors used to say thank you, or like you've done a really good job?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was like the nicest thing ever.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: It would it would count for such a lot.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you know what?
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: I tried really hard.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: I read that report five times to make sure there's no spelling mistakes.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's and when they on the rarity they turn around and say, Oh, that's a great report, it just counted to so much.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, actually, a bit of positive feedback from a financial advisor to a power planner is you know well received.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um 100%.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really difficult sometimes, isn't it?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when you are a bit more sensitive, and perhaps even if you're having a bad week, you know, we all go through our ups and downs, don't we?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, when you've got a workload which is high in, you know, it's high intensity anyway, there's a high workload in place.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're going through a bit of stress, perhaps maybe something personal, whatever it might well be.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: We like we say we all go through ups and downs in our work, and all of a sudden, like you've got all that pressure upon you, and then no one's giving you any of that feedback positive when it actually is positive.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of feel weighed down, don't you?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we all need a pat on the back sometimes to let us know when we're doing something right.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: As much as we need it when we're doing sort of doing something wrong, do you feel that sometimes people are quick to say you're doing something wrong and not as quick to tell you when you're doing something right?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is sadly that is the case.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think people are quicker to jump on you've done something wrong, then that was brilliant.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's also I remember when I first did my first paraphyling role, and I had this sudden realization that I was like, this is real money.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not writing a report about monopoly money, or I'm not submitting an application that's monopoly money.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is his client's pension fund.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: If I mess this up, like it could be terrible.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I had this sudden realization where I was like, Oh, it's quite overwhelming.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what if I get this wrong kind of thing?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I still get that now.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: I submitted something um like slightly wrong a couple of weeks ago to my dad, and I felt like my heart like sunk in my stomach, and I was like, I'm so sorry.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he was absolutely finally let these things happen.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're only human, but I felt awful.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I realize I've made the mistake, and and that's with my dad, who I know is not gonna come down on me hard, but I know I've been in situations with other fans where I've done something wrong, and it is awful the feeling, but like people do make mistakes, they're like these things happen.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: People need to feel that you know, if they do make a mistake, like you said, it does happen, you know.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but that's the reason why there are multiple sort of you know routes to go through.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you either get power planner to the financial planner looking at it, to the compliance manager looking at it.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's all these things in place to reduce the risk of anything going wrong, isn't it?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think we've always got to allow for human error.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're humans, aren't we?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's gonna happen.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Good bit of advice there, really, for any power planners listening that you know, don't put too much pressure on yourself.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna make mistakes.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yes, it is real money, it's not monopoly money.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and fingers crossed, you've got a team of people around there that understand the pressures that you've gone through.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also, as well, that sort of counts for any financial planners that have gone through the power planning route.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's gone down the admin power planner to financial planning route, like for you, for you, for example, now as a financial planner, at least you know that if you're working with a power planner or administrator, you've done the role and you can empathize with the situations they're in and the pressure they're under and the time restraints.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be more realistic with expectations to the client, but also to yourself and to that individual to take that pressure and stress off of them.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas someone going into a firm and the expectation is, well, you're the power planner, you should be doing this work for me.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want it done by this time.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely no care or consideration for that individual's well-being or mental health.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're just piling it up on them like I go back to, like a donkey.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: And uh absolutely.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: I heard that, you know, I've heard that a lot.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that is one thing I took from doing that route through admin power planner and two advisor is that now if I had a power planner, I know exactly how it feels, I know exactly the pressures you're under and how much you want to get it right.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that would would just be a good good thing to be aware of, having done it myself and then perhaps having a power planner.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think also the quality of the work, the the fact-find, let's say, yeah?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you sit down with the client, all the information you gather from the client from your first meeting.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that you write it or articulate it in a way ready for, say, a power planner to be able to do the best job possible?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can almost preempt exactly the types of questions or the things that that power planner is going to go through.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: That is definitely something I took from doing that journey.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: I saw plenty of back lines where I thought, I have no idea what you're talking about, what I'm supposed to put in the report.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: But that just means me going forward, I know that I want to put detailed notes, I want to make every point I possibly can that we talked about in the meeting, although I don't have a power planner now.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: If I did, they would know exactly what to do.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: And they they shouldn't have to ask me the questions that I've asked advisors in the past.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I suppose, from the back of that as well, is the more as a power planner you can get into client meetings and actually sit with your financial planner that you're power planning for and understand the conversation as a whole.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's probably far easier now because you can watch recordings on the Zoom meetings or you can sit in on a Zoom meeting easy peasy.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think um you you hear a lot more now around power planners coming into the actual meetings and fully understanding it.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when they come out of it, they're like, at least I've got a video I can listen back to and I can deliver part of the part of the presentation as well.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: So A, it upskills me as a power planner in a client-facing scenario, but it means that as I'm going through, I'm listening, I'm thinking, well, he hasn't asked that, or she hasn't asked that, or whatever.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you can jump in and make sure you get that information and go back to the video afterwards to grab it.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, definitely.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's um yeah, you're only human, aren't you?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, I'm not my reader.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what they said.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly right to take that pressure post off yourself.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, when we're in when people are in support positions, they feel that that's the case, it's their it's there the support, and it's like, no, this is I have to remember that with people.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: If I've, you know, I'm I'm Mr.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: Creative, I'm off doing my thing.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't everybody understand what I'm thinking in my head?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: A Sam, it's in your bloody head, you know, it's yeah.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when I turn around and like, why have you done that?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Well, you haven't told me, you haven't explained it to me.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I've had to really ground myself around that.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I've destroyed some bloody poor.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: My wife worked for me for a year and a half, and we got we nearly got divorced, honestly.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't do that personally.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think my other half would definitely kill me.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you've now stepped into the role, you went from paraplanet to to IFA um, and that's working at PMP Invest Limited, okay?
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you jumped shit.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh, absolutely.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: As soon as I rang my dad once a year, are you ready to hire me?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: Please say yes.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: And eventually one year he was like, I'm ready.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, here we go.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: When I get to prison, I'm off.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: So your dad says to you, right, off you go, you can find your own path.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you found your own path, got yourself to level four qualified, got loads of experience of power planning.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: You now wanted to become a financial planner.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's dad, I'm ready.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna work for you.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Great stuff.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you had an opportunity to jump straight in as a as a um as a financial planner at your dad's firm then.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about that then.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the last year then you've been working as a financial planner.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's been it's been brilliant.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: It obviously wasn't what I expected with COVID and and lockdown, but it's still it's still been great.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people are like, Do you not find it hard working with your dad?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: But me and my dad are basically the same person.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: We are so similar that I think that's why it works.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're both really laid back, like we're both very chilled and like happy and easy go lucky kind of people that I think that that's why it works.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly like when I made that mistake, he was like, It's okay, like these things happen, and I think that's why it works.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: And also the plan will be for me to take over my dad's role eventually, so he can take some time off and eventually retire, and I take over his clients.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the clients like it, and I know they will like it going forward because because we are so similar, like we've sat before lockdown in client meetings and come out and they're like, Oh, you two are just so alike, it's like sitting with the same person because we've got the same mannerisms, we say the same things, and the clients love that because they they trust my dad, and my dad is nearing retirement, and these people may only just be entering their retirement, so they're thinking, right, he's gonna take a step back to what's gonna happen to me.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas when I step in, it's like a miniature female version of my dad, and they're like, Great, because you can now sort out my retirement, and it and it's like being with my dad, which is the reason they came aboard in the first place.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's been great.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I did my my last couple of CII exams over the last year, whilst we haven't been able to do anything, so now I'm CII level four, and then I've just started my childhood exams to hopefully they're they're hard, but hopefully do that over the next couple of years, and then hopefully my dad can take a step back and uh can hopefully fill fill his shoes.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's really good.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now you stepped in, you've got to your goal.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's just how long was it taking you to become a financial planner then?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: From starting out as an administrator to becoming a financial planner, how long did it take you?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was about five, five years, maybe five, six years.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, which sounds to me about the average when I ask people.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: I had a girl on the podcast, um Jessica McGuigan, actually, and it took her five years as well.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, it's very, very similar to Root yourself, except she was in one firm all the all the way through.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was a dad's firm.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: She dumped it.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but then you've moved around and you've seen roles in you've seen roles, you've seen how different companies work.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: So there's benefits to what you've done, there's benefits to staying in one place.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: She was 19 and had a um uh her son.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: So for her, it was kind of like a flexible working for her, and that allowed her to be a young mum and progress through.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I really love the fact that she was able to do that, and that's what I think the profession for women actually does.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: It allows you to be a man and do the role of a financial planner.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there ain't many careers out there that do that and allow that for that sort of flexibility.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's talk about women in financial planning because you're obviously a great advocate of that.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're a role model to any any women coming into the profession.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're part of Next Gen Planners as well, aren't you?
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a financial planning community that do a lot of training and development and help you bring out your soft skills, etc.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us first off, tell us a little bit about Next Gen Planners.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: What part have you played in Next Gen Planners and what benefit is it giving you in respect of your career as a financial planner?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I just came across um NextGen, I think, on somewhere like LinkedIn.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was thinking about taking my charter exams, didn't really know what route to take, what to do.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I noticed they had a chartered route, if you like.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you pay a certain amount of money and they they put you through all the exams and help you.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: So me and my dad discussed it and said you and it's about a year and a half, two years, and we were like, yeah, this is that's the one.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we had a chat with Adam, who runs NextGen, and it just got really good.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, he's brilliant.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: I do love Adam, he's great.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we had a chat, and we were like, This is the right thing to do.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um decided yet gonna do chartered through them.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually my last CII RO exam, and Adam helped me with that, and I was like, This is definitely the best way to go.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: So then the start of the new year, started prepping for my first um AF exam with Next Gen.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: But there's just so much more to them.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think I went in thinking it was just my exams, but once I got in there, it's just it's just an amazing community for all different things, like support.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: If I put in there, I just can't do this one thing.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can someone help me?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: Someone will help you.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you put in there, I actually put in there um interestedly, does anyone work for family?
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to see and have a chat with people, what it's been like for them, what works, and things like that.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: And people came back and I had a couple of phone conversations, which was amazing.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you could put things in there like software, who uses what, and it's just a brilliant place to to ask questions and and stuff like that.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then in terms of other things, um, Adam did my competency for me.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: So to be signed off as a competent advisor, I had to do a role play, which is honestly my worst nightmare.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't think of anything worse than role play.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: It makes me drift and sweat, like suffer.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's awful.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, but Adam was literally amazing.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: He he did it all with me, and he's like, No, I don't know why you're panicking.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's like, if you want to talk to me normally, I can talk for about five hours, probably to a brick wall that doesn't speak.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: If you want me to do role play, I just can't do it.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: But he was amazing and he did it with me.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: He made me feel relaxed and we got it all done and signed off.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we did that, and then also, like they do like these video challenges, and it was like a month of putting yourself on video and talking about different things, and I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna do it, give it a go.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: And a few times I thought, oh, I feel a bit like a numpty, but in the end, it built my confidence so much, and now I would do a video of myself, and I'm like, that's all right.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I might have said a few things a bit bullet, but other than that, it was fine, yeah.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, they're just great.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then obviously, I've done the big breakfast with them the last few weeks, which is a show on the front on a Friday morning, and it's just it's interesting, it's fun, and it's good for me as well.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it really builds my confidence.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've just they next should have been brilliant.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what I would have done without them, really.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: They've taken me on a whole nother another path that I didn't even know was going to be there.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, brilliant.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I I I concur, you know, I've stepped into the community now a couple of times, and I've been speaking to Adam behind the scenes about building a well-being and mental health community for the financial planning profession, and we're getting involved in that over in the future.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really looking forward to it.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think the community aspect brings a whole new angle to being a financial planner because it can be quite an isolated job, especially when you've got planners that are all all spread out all over the place that are working from home and um might be self-employed, and it can be quite an insular job as well, and a lot of pressure upon yourself.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think finding a community where you are in collaboration, not competition, is only going to add value because you can ask questions that you might not be able to ask an impr you know, uh, you know, somebody who works for you, or you can't turn to your wife or your husband or whatever to ask questions because they don't understand what it's like.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the bit about the community I think that's really good.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, I was really impressed with the Big Breakfast.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, you were presenting on there, and I could see how it would build your confidence getting on video.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love all the little kind of little uh video challenges and whatnot, and how you all are very positive and supportive of each other.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I came on there and it felt very fresh, and it was such a different view, if you like, to what the financial planning profession was about.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was um it was refreshing and and and lovely.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I can see how somebody of uh of all ages really would benefit from it, but especially somebody who's a bit younger, who wants to come into the profession, but feels a bit like, oh, bloody hell, there's a barrier here, you know, knowledge barrier or or um cultural barrier, and there isn't in there.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, hats off.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really, really good.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now you're also getting involved in the community and building like a sub-community in there, aren't you?
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, can you tell us a little bit about that subcommunity that you're building in Next Gen Planners for women under 30?
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it sort of came from how I've had this idea in my head for quite a long time and didn't really know what it was, what to do with it, where to go with it, but it's just been fluttering around in my head.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it all stemmed from I remember when I went to my first PFS conference and I was with my dad and I Walked in and I was just overwhelmed by the amount of males probably over 50.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought, is this the job for me?
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't look like any of you, I don't sound like any of you, I don't behave like any of you.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_02: So how am I gonna do this if I'm the only person like me?
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of thing.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I also thought, I'm never gonna say anything.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not because it's quite intimidating, I will happily admit that I find it intimidating.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna sit here and go, oh, I think this one should do that, because I just wouldn't.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: If there were five other women on my table, I maybe dabble a little bit and say a bit more as my confidence grows.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: But if I'm sat on a table with 10 men over 50, I'm just not gonna say it.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just not, and and there's nothing wrong with that being the sort of group of people in the financial advisory because my dad's amazing at his job, he is brilliant.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like every day I learn stuff from my dad and the way he behaves, what he says, his knowledge, you know, him and his business partner, they've built an amazing business, and all these businesses are amazing.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was more for me about having those young women similar to me to just talk to a bit more openly.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that was sort of my idea.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted somewhere to to come together to be able to chat about anything, or I don't know how to take my next steps, or fail this exam three times.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to put it in a great big group.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: Please help me, what can I do?
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and just also know there's other young women in financial planning out there.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point, I'm not sure there's loads, but that's also the other point of my group is I want to I want to branch out and aim towards like admin staff and trainee power planners and people coming out of school, college, unique.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: You don't you don't need a degree, you don't I don't even have any A levels, you know what I mean?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have anything but my financial advisor qualification, and it's not seen as a career, really.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like my best friend, she's a lawyer, and like she says, Oh, I want to be a lawyer, and but no one says, I want to be a financial advisor or a financial planner, it's just it's just not a thing, but it should be.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love it, but and I can understand why because I've been there, you sit as an admin staff and you look at all the financial advisors, and they are all males over 50.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, why would you think you could do that?
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't, and I'm sure there's some women out there thinking, yeah, I could do it at fair favour.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: But me and a load of other people I know don't like and you don't always get the like financial advisor firms are so busy, sometimes it's hard for people to stop and say, Look, you're you're like great, I think you should maybe take your exams or we'll support you.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't always happen.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I thought if I could like get some real momentum behind this group, and I've got a lot of links with with um companies and stuff like that, just people I've sort of spoken to and said, like, look, your admin staff, if you sort of just it'll be free, just get them to sign up to this group, they can have a chat, they can pair up with a mentor if they like, like, I'll I'll run some webinars about building your confidence in meetings, or or like we're chatting about like the difference between admin and a para planner to see if they they feel like they might like that, or or if they just want to message me and say, Oh, can we have a chat for 10 minutes to talk about your career or how I could maybe do that, or if you know any companies.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: I that's I just wanted to create that sort of thing.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's within NextGen at the moment, but I want to take it out and bigger things, and I just want to get as many young women involved as I possibly can.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_02: And even if I went to a college and said, look, join this group for a week, see what you think, learn a bit about the role.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't like it, you can leave.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: But you might go, This is a this is the career for me.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do this.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: What have I got to do?
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the idea here is to make the career of a financial planner a bit more obvious to women, especially young women, you know, is far back, you know, as early as in schools, colleges, universities.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're absolutely right.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's obviously a clear route into the professions of um being a solicitor or an accountant, but not so much into financial planning, which I totally 100% agree with you there.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: But also it's about being unapologetically female.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why should you have to masculate yourself in an environment with men to feel that you fit into a male-dominated profession?
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not a man bash because I'm one of them, you know.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that it's male dominated, if you like, is just because of the times and the times they are changing, aren't they?
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, there has to be role models within the profession that step up and say, it's okay, I'm a female, I work as a financial planner.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bloody good job.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So why not come across and join us?
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And hey, join our group, and I'm going to tell you all about it.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not just me, but there's other women that are working in the profession.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And here's their experience of being a financial planner and why we believe it's a fantastic job for women.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So come on, learn a little bit about it.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_01: We'll answer some questions for you.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you like it, stay.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't, don't, but at least you've sort of come in here and explored the idea.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people like you, women like you, need to step up and be role models because without that, no one's going to see it, you know.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to do it.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think community is a great way to do it because, as you've experienced with Next Gen, community builds collaboration.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, it gives people comfort.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like finding a tribe, isn't it?
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Once you find your tribe of people, you'll feel really, really comfortable and you can bounce off of each other and you can ask those questions that you might not ask if you're a girl that's saying sat in an admin team of 20 financial planners and 18 of them are bloody blokes, you know.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, yeah, 100%.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just from being there myself that I know I don't I don't want to ask that question to them.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: I want to ask women my own age and see what they think and see what they can say to make me feel better, and even just as little as saying, you can go in that meeting and you can talk to that client and you're gonna be fine.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna say, Oh god, you look about 10 and you're a female.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is not gonna happen.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: You sometimes you just and I know it myself, you need someone to turn around and say you can do that from someone that is like you.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you shouldn't have to battle to want to express your opinion on something because of your age and because of your sex.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's as simple as that, you know, your gender.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: You should not have to feel that you can't have that communication.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's great that you're building that building that community where women have a place that they can come.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I hope that drives confidence that women can be unapologetically female and share their opinions in the workplace, regardless of their gender or age.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are so many good things.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're the way you're talking about this now is not the way that a financial planner in his you know, 40s, 45, 50s would be talking about it, because it they don't have the same sort of mindset that you do around how you can generate new clients, for example, what it the benefits of being a female within financial planning, how you can articulate something in a different way that isn't sort of really bullish, you know, that you may show a little bit of a deeper level of empathy and sensitivity that not only women require, but a lot of men require that as well.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to feel like we're going in somewhere where there's a bloody know-it-all sat at the other end of the desk, you know, because I found that, you know, I there's a lot of confidence issues when it comes to money, you know, and people want to know that the person they're speaking to is going to be empathetic and understanding to their situation.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose historically, financial planners have never been like that, you know.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, God, Jesus, like I stepping to I used a I was using an accountant and he was an old boy, you know.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing wrong with being an old boy again, you know.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not being ageist here.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: No concept of what it was like to run a recruitment company, no concept, you know, of anything around it.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Started talking to a few other people, and I found this accountant that's now our outsourced, runs our whole finance for us, not just our accountants.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: He runs the whole of our finance because he got me.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_01: He understands the pains that I was going through, the worries, the stresses, and like he can just talk the language with me, you know.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that's what financial planning needs.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It needs more people that can talk the language in an understandable, simple way.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So people feel comfortable and confident they could go to Chandel and say, you know, tell, you know, give me some help, or at least watch hours and hours of your videos explaining the very basics, you know, definitely what financial planning is.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's great for new clients, it's great for new people coming into the profession, isn't it?
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_02: I do, I just feel like there is a really big need for it.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I just felt like there was, and I know I looked for it when I was at the start of my career, and I was like, I just want someone to talk to that gets it.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I struggled to find it, and I just thought if I could create it now and it'd be a mixture of being able to talk to someone and watch a couple of webinars on how to build your confidence, and very similar to what Nextdo has done for me, just and that's more of like a general financial planner thing, but I just think it would do so much good, and I just really hope it does bring more women into the industry.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_02: I just I think it would be great.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think they can make great financial planners.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I absolutely love it.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, if you're a mum and there can be so much flexibility there, and it's such a rewarding job, and there's no drying that you can earn a really good salary.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like for me, it just ticks all the boxes.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I I hope.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: In respect of salaries, okay.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you take about five years to become a financial planner.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: From be being an administrator, I'm not going to ask you what you're on now, but from from an administrator up to a financial advisor, did you see your salary increase massively?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, from the very start, like out of each of where I am now, a huge difference.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_02: A huge difference.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say your salary salary's doubled?
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_02: At least.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: At least doubled.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's yeah.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's another positive thing they want to end on here, okay, is that you may start out as an administrator, you may be on 18 to 20k, right?
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, down to you to obviously get your qualifications, get your experience, get your practical experience, um, you know, as well as your technical experience.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_01: But within three to five years, it is not unusual to more than double you.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the and the good thing with power planning is, and like you said, like I've definitely gone from one firm to the other and said, You've got to pay me more.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've got my experience, I've got my exams.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had times as well where I've accepted a job and they've counted counter-offered me and I've gone back again, it's counter-offered again.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's not unusual in paraplanning.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And also, like, take an exam, turn around and say, I've taken this exam, I want to raise.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's not unusual either.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've got plenty of friends that are paraplanners that have studied hard for an exam and said, I've worked, I've worked myself hard, I've got it.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about a pay rise.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like these things, and it's scary, don't get me wrong, I've definitely been absolutely broken it for those conversations, but most of the time they're like, Yeah, fair enough, right?
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to benefit us.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_02: You've done well, we'll give you a like a raise.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's definitely not difficult to do.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely worth you know, worth people understanding when they come into financial planning as well, is that you can increase your salary quite considerably.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the way the profession's going, where it's less bonus-oriented, there's going to be more emphasis and focus, especially around the employed roles of having higher basic salaries, less bonuses.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where it kind of falls in line a bit more with the professions of accountancy solicitors and that type of thing.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll be seeing that in the employed market.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's always still self-employed.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And as a financial planner, again, anybody listening to this, you can you are master of your own destiny.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to earn 300,000 years, half a million quid.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I speak to financial planners that are earning over a million pounds.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 100%.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not hard to do.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can, it's 100% achievable in this industry.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people don't realize that.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, a lot of us are motivated by I couldn't think of anything better than a flexible job, a rewarding job, and a brilliant salary.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just think, what more could you ask for?
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Chanel, listen, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing your journey.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know we sort of emphasized and we focused a lot on your journey from power, you know, the different types of from administration and then through these different power planner routes.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason why it took a little bit of time and went a little bit deeper is it can be incredibly complicated, that bit.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people can get lost and stay in jobs perhaps they shouldn't be staying in because they think they're a power planner, but yet their skill set isn't being pushed to the true capabilities of really what a power planner is.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you've given some really great examples of the differences in the different roles.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with jumping from one company to another.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I would be saying that as a recruitment consultant.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody listening, come and see me, I'll get your job.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, absolutely.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have amazing help from recruitment consultants.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think that makes a huge difference, in all honesty.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: When I went to get jobs through recruitment consultants, made a huge difference, definitely.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thing is that you're getting some you're getting some market research, aren't you, at the end of the day?
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think what people, you know, you might be the best financial planner in the world, you might be the best power planner, but guess what?
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_01: You spend all day with your head in a book, or you spend your whole day talking to your clients.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_01: What you don't do is spend your whole day looking at the market and seeing what's out there.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas we've got complete utter exposure to the market.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we can tell you in your area who's paying what, who's not paying what, who's got a trainee route, who's not, you know, how much people are earning at one company compared to the other.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the value that we have as recruitment consultants.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you can go, and I always advise people go out there and do your own research and go and find your own job.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if you haven't got the time, come and see me because I'll do it all for you.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the value of a recruitment consultant, and um, which is why I think they'll always be there, you know?
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think they'll be there.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, thank you so much for your time, Steve.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's an absolute pleasure talking to you.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I hope we can continue sort of talking in the future.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know you're talking to Elena Stevenson in my office about being part of that group, and I think it's a fantastic group.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So please do that because I think um I think it's fantastic, and I'm happy to share that and get that out there.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_01: We've got loads of followers.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll help you grow that community, no problem at all.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you're doing is fab and and well done on your career so far.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_01: It can only be how how old are you right now?
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_01: 24.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_01: 24 years old.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 40 this this year, right?
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_01: You've got 16 years till you were my age.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_01: My God, what you can achieve within that 16 years.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So hats off to you, and inspiration to any young females that are listening and guys that get yourself stuck into a profession and you can earn considerable money, have the flexibility you require, and enjoy your life.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's been brilliant.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_01: No worries.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_01: All the best.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.