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Bernie Sanders on the War in Gaza and Beating Trump · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: On today's show, Senator Bernie Sanders stops by the studio
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: to talk about 2024, the war in Gaza, and more.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Nebraska Republicans try to deny Joe Biden the electoral vote
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: that could decide the presidency. Florida's abortion rights measure could
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: make the state more competitive this fall. And No Labels
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: finally throws in the towel on their idiotic quest to
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: spoil the election for Trump. But first, after becoming the
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: first presidential nominee to skip every single primary debate, Donald
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Trump is suddenly very eager to debate Joe Biden. Trump
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: pulled a little stunt in Wisconsin this week to make
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: his point. Let's listen. We have an empty podium right
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: here to my right.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: You know what that is? That's for Joe Biden. I'm
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: trying to get him to debate.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I'm calling on Crooked Joe to debate any time, any place.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: We'll do it any way you want, Joe.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: So that we can discuss in a friendly manner.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: The real problems of our country, of which there are many,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: instead of trying.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: To have corrupt prosecutors fight your battles for you. The
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: old empty podium trick.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: A classic of the genre. Where was the person in
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the giant chicken suit? Wait, didn't you wear the chicken
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: suit once for John Kerry?
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: No, I did not wear the chicken suit. I wore
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: a trash bag for Gene Shaheen in the Senate race.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Look, that's a story you're going to have to buy
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Democracy or Else, How to Save America in 10 Easy Steps,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: to read the entire anecdote.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: That is a fucking professional organic plug.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Cricket.com slash books. All right, here's the Biden campaign's response.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Trump said last fall only people who are losing want debates.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: At least we agree on something. Biden himself answered a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: reporter's shouted question about this in March by saying... It
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: depends on Trump's behavior. Unclear whether Trump accusing Biden of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: ripping lines before the State of the Union counts as
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: bad behavior, but that's what Trump did this morning during
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: an interview with Hugh Hewitt. Let's listen.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: You know that white stuff that they happen to find,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: which happened to be cocaine in the White House? I
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: don't know. I think something's going on there, because I
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: watched his State of the Union, and he was all
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: jacked up at the beginning. By the end, he was
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: fading fast. There's something going on there. I want to debate,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and I think debates with him, at least, should be
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: drug tested.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Mr.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: President, are you suggesting President Biden's using cocaine?
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he's using, but that was not, hey,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: he was higher than a kite.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: First of all, you know, if you've got a couple
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: extra minutes, go read the transcript of the Hugh Hewitt interview.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: It's nuts. It is really just Trump at his finest.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: It sounds like Trump thinks that Biden's State of the
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Union was pretty effective. Sounds like he thought he was
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: pretty good, huh?
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they clearly. I think that there is no question
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: that Trump and every Republican elected official, every Republican operative,
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: all the people who work at Fox News and the
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: MAGA media outlets were just flabbergasted by the Joe Biden
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: they saw because they 100% believe their caricature of Joe
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Biden as a doddering, senile old man.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They do.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: They believe it. And this is actually, I think, one
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: of the biggest shifts in the Republican Party in the
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Trump era. When we worked in the White House, most
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: of the people in the party, the leadership, the people
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: who ran the campaigns, even the yahoos at Fox News,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: they knew what was real and what was farce. They
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: were in on the joke. It was all a wink
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: and a nod. They knew Obama wasn't a commie or
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: born in Kenya, but they went along with it because
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: it was good politics and good money for the people
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: who do online fundraising or run these networks. But once
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Trump took over, believing their own bullshit became the price
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: of admission to the party. They all believe it. It's
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: why they keep losing elections, I think, because they keep
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: running against the Democrat or the Joe Biden that Fox
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: News portrays, not the one that voters see. So I
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: think this is like a real window into how much
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: what they actually think of Joe Biden. And I think
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: it actually becomes an advantage for his campaign because the
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: way they're talking about it is not who he is.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: And it's not, I think, what the voters will see
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: as the campaign goes on.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I liked that he was demanding a drug test when
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: the last time the two debated, he had COVID, didn't
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: let anyone know, and almost killed Joe Biden and other
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: people in the debate room because he had COVID. So
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: that was great.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I'm a little torn on this, and I'd like your
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: opinion as the host of a prominent media tech podcast.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: Should it be a bigger deal that one presidential candidate
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: accused the other one of doing cocaine and demanded a
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: drug test before the first debate?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that should be big news. I
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: think it should be some news. It should be a
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: story somewhere. I haven't seen it anywhere. This is here.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: This is it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Crooked exclusive. Tweet it out with a siren emoji.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So Trump clearly wants these debates. I wouldn't dare to
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: call any of this a strategy, but what do you
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: think he's up to here?
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: I think he definitely wants to portray Biden as someone
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: who is scared to debate, to drive his narrative that
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Biden is mentally unfit for the White House.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Do you think he's raising expectations a little bit here of.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: His own performance? I think the expectations could not be
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: lower for Trump's performance. This is how he survives every
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: time is that people think he's going to light himself
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: on fire in the middle of it. When he kind
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: of only does that for half the time, like just
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: gets like one pant leg on fire, he usually comes out.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I know, but when you're around me and like, I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: want to debate this senile old guy who can't even
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: stand and blah, blah, blah.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I think what he's doing is he's making the mistake
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: of lowering expectations for Biden just as he did in
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: the State of the Union.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: His own expectation setting, I think, does not really matter.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: And people have seen enough Donald Trump to know what
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: they're getting on a debate stage. He's now done six
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: presidential debates in the general election viewed by– tens of
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: millions of people. So that part I'm not worried about.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: I think it's part of the broader problem of you
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: portray Joe Biden one way, and then he shows up
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: a different way. That undermines your overall strategy. There is
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: a way to make a case that Joe Biden is
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: too old to be president. John Trump's not the best
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: messenger for that. Obviously, he's basically the same age. But
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: there is a way to do that that does not
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: involve falling down a conspiracy theory rat hole about Joe
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Biden being senile and having dementia and Obama pulling the
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: strings or someone else. That part is stupid and they
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: continue to double down on that error.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So why do you think Biden and the Biden campaign
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: hasn't yet said, like, of course we're going to debate Trump.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Of course we're looking forward to debating Trump. What do
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: you think is going on there? Is it possible or
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: wise for Biden to avoid these debates?
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I would love to know what they really think about this.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: Because It's easy for us to sit here and say
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: skipping those debates would be a disaster for Biden because
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: people think he's too old. But what happens when you
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: get on the stage with an absolute lunatic?
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Well, he did four years ago.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: He did, right. And he navigated it quite well.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Great. He won.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: It's harder when you're the incumbent. I would say incumbent
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: presidents tend to do much worse in the debates as
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: president than they did.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: As- I was there. I was there in debate prep
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: in that first debate.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: You were the first. If I remember correctly, you were
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: the chiefly responsible for preparing Barack Obama for that first debate, right?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It was so bad. It was so bad. And Ron Klain,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Ron Klain, a former VP, told Barack Obama in the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: first meeting when we prepped for the debate, incumbent presidents
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: in their first debate always do horribly because they are
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: not used to being, they're not used to doing politics
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: and being challenged because they've been president for four years.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And he did. Bush lost that first debate to Kerry.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: You're right. There's a long history of that. I think
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: there's the ultimate question of, is it in Joe Biden's
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: interest to be on that debate stage? I tend to
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: think yes. But then there's a separate question of, how
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: do you talk about it right now? Because I think
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: you can clearly– there's a world in which you could say,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I absolutely want to debate Donald Trump because I look
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: forward to getting on stage with him, to hearing him
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: try to explain his support for cutting Social Security, to
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: pay for big tax cuts, to ban abortion nationwide. to
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: supporting Russia invading recalcitrant NATO countries or whatever, pick your
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: hits on Trump. But my guess is he's too cowardly
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: to get on a debate stage with a moderator, any
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: moderator other than like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson, right?
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Just say you want to debate him because you're going
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: to have negotiations over this and let's see if Trump
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: walks away from him. I don't think you have to,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: I think you can say you want to debate him
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: now and let this play out over the next several
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: months to see what Trump's actually willing to agree to.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think that's that. You're not locking yourself into
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: a definite debate under all scenarios with any moderator if
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: now you make it clear you want a debate. I
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: think the hesitancy, no one real is paying attention to this.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: I think we should be clear about that. But you
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: don't want the hesitancy to become a narrative. Yes, we
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: are not real people. We are nerds. But even for
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: the nerds, I think the hesitancy, you don't want the
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: hesitancy to be a narrative.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure the Biden campaign is thinking this too.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, They're going to wait for their time and
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: place to say they want to debate and they probably
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: don't want to be bullied into this by Trump, which
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I think there's some wisdom to that. And I'm sure
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: they also don't want to get into a situation where
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: they say, yeah, we're going to debate. And then Trump says, well,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: why are we waiting to the fall? Why don't we
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: do it right now? And suddenly he's setting the pace
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: for when they, you know, you don't want to get
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: into all that. So I do agree with you, though,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: that like at some point you want to, as the
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: campaign heats up, you want to look like you are
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: not afraid of debating him at all.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: So Trump just got a big political challenge in his
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: own backyard this week. The Florida Supreme Court handed down
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: two pretty big decisions, one that will cause the state's
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: six-week abortion ban to go into effect. bad, and a
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: separate ruling that a constitutional amendment to protect the right
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: to an abortion can appear on the ballot this fall.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: The Biden campaign responded by calling the decision an opening
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: for the president in Florida, which they will now be
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: investing in as a, quote, pathway to victory. Florida resident
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump hasn't yet weighed in on the rulings. but
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: said he'll be making a statement on abortion next week.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: You holding your breath for that Trump statement, the big
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Trump statement on abortion next week?
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Next week is always one week away if you keep
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: saying next week.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, at some point, Trump's going to have to say,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: if he gets asked this, that he'll either vote yes
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: on the amendment, which would make abortion legal in Florida, again,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: and protect abortion in Florida, or he'll vote no, which
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: means he's voting for a six-week ban. And the same
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: six-week ban that he previously called, quote, a terrible mistake.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: I think that he will probably never really answer that
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: question and will just come out with his 15-week plan
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: and just bullshit his way through it. Because in a
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: normal world with a normal candidate, with a normal press corps,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: he would not be allowed to not answer this question.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden would not be allowed to not answer this question.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Every day, Karine Jean-Pierre went to the podium, she'd be asked,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: she'd be asked, she'd be asked. Every time Joe Biden
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: walked to the helicopters, he'd be asked, he'd be asked,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: he'd be asked. And the White House would have a meeting.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: They're like, well, this is what we finally have to
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: say something. This will not happen with Donald Trump. This
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: never happens with Donald Trump. They call. They say, hey,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: you got any thoughts on this? And then they get
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: no response. And then we move on to the next
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: crisis du jour, right? It's just it does not. I
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: think he's just going to bullshit his way through this
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: as long as possible. Yes, at the very end, he
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: is going to have to vote on this. He's clearly voting.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: He's not voting for a constitutional amendment to protect abortion.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: but he will just use his position as a 15-week
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: plan or 16-week plan, whatever he comes up with. But
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that that's the world we have to
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: live in as Democrats. We should just assert that he
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: supports a six-week ban in Florida and that he would
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: be supportive of that elsewhere. That's just what we should do.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: And that is a fair position because he has not
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: opposed it. He is a resident of that state, and
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: we should just assume he is voting against the right
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: to access abortion in that state. And therefore, as you said,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: voting for a six-week ban. That should just be our message,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: our assertion. We don't have to wait for him to
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: give us his answer because he's never going to give
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: us an answer and the president is never going to
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: force him to do it.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and there's a CNN story about his sort
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: of decision on abortion. And I guess there's still some
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: question internally about whether he comes out for a 15
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: or 16-week ban or whether he just says it should
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: be left to the states. I tend to think that
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: they've telegraphed the 15 or 16-week ban too many times now,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: but who knows?
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: I don't think it matters. He has done it. He
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: has previewed it 15 times. They told the New York Times,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: let the New York Times story sit there for months now.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: That is his position. And if he wants to come
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: out against that position and oppose it and oppose a
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: national abortion ban, that is his right. But ambiguity is
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: not the same. Ambiguity around position he has already previewed
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: that he has and refused to walk away from does
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: not mean he doesn't have it. We just do not
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: have to play by this set of old school rules
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: where if he doesn't actually say it and we assert
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: he has it The Washington Post fact checker is going
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: to just tattoo four Pinocchios on our forehead. I don't
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: give a shit, right? We know what is going to
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: happen if he becomes president of the Republican trifecta. There
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: is going to be a national abortion ban and we
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: should feel we are 100% within our rights morally, factually,
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: politically to just assert that point over and over again.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: That is his position, right? That is his position. I
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: don't care. I don't want to read another fucking story
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: about the deliberations internally about what they might say. They've
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: already said it. They've done it, right?
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: It is over.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: That is what the deal is.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying for voters who are smart, despite what
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: you may think.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: What I may think? I think they're smart. Don't put
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: words in my mouth.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: They're going to be more persuaded by hearing Donald Trump say, yes,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I'm for a 15-week ban than by Democrats saying, oh,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: he says he's not for a 15-week ban, but he
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: really is.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I don't think we have to say that first part.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, it'd be better if he said it 100%. I
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: think there is a difference.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: I think it'd be 100% better if he said it,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: but we don't have to wait for him to actually
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: bring the stone tablets down from Mar-a-Lago to continue to
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: assert that position. I think we can just assert it.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: And we have plenty, plenty, plenty, plenty of footage of
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: him taking credit for banning abortion and overturning Roe v.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Wade and all of that. Oh, yeah.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: He said it a million times.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: So now that Florida has banned abortion, at least until November,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: when there's a constitutional amendment, there is now no abortion
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: access in the South because Florida was the state where
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: people were going to get abortions because so many of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the other Southern states, all the other Southern states have
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: banned it. And so now with the six weeks ban,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: there's going to be no access to abortion in the South.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: And I wonder what you think about sort of what
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: this does to the movement to protect abortion rights in
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Florida and whether they can reach the, it's not a
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: 50% threshold for this amendment, it's a 60% threshold. And
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: just so people know, when it passed Ohio, it was 57%.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So if this threshold was in Ohio, it would not
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: have passed. So getting 60% in Florida, demographically, it should
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: be easier than Ohio, but I don't know what you think.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a very, very high threshold to reach.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: It is certainly possible, right? It's going to take a
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: lot of work, but you can get there. I mean,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Florida got 60% for a $ 15 minimum wage last year.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: They got to 60% for Restoring the voting rights of
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: people previously convicted of felonies like you can get there
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: and but it's hard and the demographics are confusing because
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: in some ways you think it would be better but
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: you also have a large conservative Hispanic population there that
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: may be more conservative on abortion and so this is
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: this would be a real test case because the other
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: places where we've tested this have been less Latino heavy
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: states like Kansas and Ohio in Michigan and And so
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: it'll be interesting to see what happens here. But it
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: is definitely doable. I think that people should invest in
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: it because I think it's obviously a critically important thing
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: to do for the people of Florida to try to
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: get this done. And I hope money and time and
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: resources will flow into the state to try to pass
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: this because I think it is very passable.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So what do you think about the Biden campaign's Florida optimism?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Trump won the state by three points in 2020. And
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: there have been two polls in Florida, I believe, in mid-March,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and one had Trump up seven and the other had
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Trump up six.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Look, Florida is a hard state and is a state
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: that gets harder because, you know, we talk all the
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: time about how some states like Georgia and Virginia have
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: gotten blue over time because there's been this in-migration of
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Democrats to live in the cities and the college towns
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: in those states. Florida is the opposite, right? Florida is
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: one of the few states where the in-migration is is
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: helping Republicans, right? You have Republicans moving from New Jersey,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: New York, other blue states to Florida to live in
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: a red state. And as of November of last year,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Florida Republicans had a 600,000 voter registration advantage over Democrats
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: in the state. And so this is a state that's
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: very challenging. Is there a world in which it can
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: be won? Yes, it can be won, right? Obama won
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: it twice, but it's hard and it's incredibly expensive.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Does abortion being on the ballot there help? Absolutely. But
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: I still think it's very challenging. And are we going
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: to be in a world where the Biden campaign is
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: going to have an extra $ 100 million to spend in Florida?
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I hope so. And if so, that'd be great to
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: do it. Because even if they run a competitive race
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: there and fall short, that organizing, that messaging will help
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: the next time around. Because if we just cede the state,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: we're never going to get it back. But I just
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: want to be realistic with people, and I hate being
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: the Debbie Downer on this one always, is It's just
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: a very, very challenging state for Democrats. North Carolina is
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: way easier than Florida as we look at it right now.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And cheaper.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: And much cheaper. Not cheap, but cheaper.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: And the same was true with Georgia in 2020, it
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: turned out. And people were like, what are they doing
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: in Georgia? And then it turned out that they won.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: So not for nothing, but Democratic leaders in Florida say
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: they're a little nervous about the Biden campaign nationalizing the
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: abortion ballot measure, apparently because it could turn off winnable Republicans.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: What's your take on that?
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: You know, I obviously defer to the local leaders on
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: what the best strategy is. I think if every day
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Chuck Schumer, Rachel Maddow, the cast
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: of Pod Save America all came down and campaigned for it,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: that's probably not helpful when you're going to have to
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: obviously win just because.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: We got to cancel that trip.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: We didn't.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Was that on the books? I thought we said never
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: again to Florida. I thought that was.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Our rule.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: We're going to hear from Floridians right now. Sorry, everyone.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: We love you all.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: We'll be back one day, I swear. Yeah, that's probably
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: not helpful. You have to win a bunch of Republicans
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: to do it. But Florida does have a history of
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: having a split vote on these more progressive ballot initiatives.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, minimum wage got almost 61% of the vote
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: in 2020. And Biden only got 47%. So we had
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: a 13 point spread there, right? 13 and a half points, right?
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: I think it was exactly. And so you can see
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: a world where Trump wins by the same margin or
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: maybe slightly less than he won in 2020. But the
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: abortion ballot initiative succeeds at 60%. Like that is possible.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: You don't want to say a vote for this is
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: a vote for Joe Biden. Like not that anyone's planning
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: on doing that, but that would be a suboptimal strategy, yes.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: If you want to vote against Trump, vote for this
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: abortion bill. Yeah, that's a bad idea.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Also, marijuana legalization is going to be on the ballot.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So probably get a little boost for that as well.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: All right. Let's talk about another pathway to victory for
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: both campaigns that runs right through the swing state of Nebraska, Dan.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: So right now, stay with me here. Right now, Nebraska
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: is one of only two states that divides its electoral
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: votes by congressional district. The other one is Maine. And
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: in 2020, Biden won a single critical electoral vote out
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: of the congressional district that includes Omaha, right? It's the
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: biggest city in Nebraska. Now, because of that, Trump and
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Nebraska's Republican governor are pushing the state legislature to change
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: the law so that whoever wins Nebraska, which Trump did
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: by quite a bit, gets all of the state's electoral votes.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: If they succeed, and if the only swing states Biden
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: ends up winning are the blue wall of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and Michigan, that would result in an electoral college tie,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: 269 to 269. And that would throw the election to
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: the House of Representatives, where each state delegation gets one vote.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: And it is all but certain that Republicans will continue
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: to control more state delegations in 2024, even if Democrats
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: take the House. So Democrats in Nebraska say they're confident
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: this won't happen. State Republicans tried to do this in 2016.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: They couldn't get it done. And the effort just failed
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: in a procedural vote on Wednesday night by 36 to 8.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: The legislative session ends in two weeks on April 18th.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: What do you think, Dan? How are you feeling?
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Worried, but not panicked, I guess, which was my natural
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: state of being.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: That's your thing.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: That's my bumper sticker. People in the state seem very
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: confident they can defeat this, right? The only hesitancy I
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: have is Donald Trump really wants this. There is real
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: pressure on the Republicans in the state. Charlie Kirk, the lunatic.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: He started it.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: He started it.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: And he's holding a rally there.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Today, right? As we're recording, he's holding a rally. And
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: you can just– when Donald Trump really, really wants something–
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Republicans tend to fold. And so maybe this will be
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: the exception.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, his mob will threaten to hang them.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Hang them, primary them, whatever. Whatever works. This is so
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: consequential because as we sit here today, Biden's most likely
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: easiest path to 270 is Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, one congressional
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: district in Nebraska, 270 on the dot. That is the
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: easiest path. Cutting that off means Biden now has to
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: win Nevada and Arizona or Georgia, along with the three
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: states that made up the blue wall. Each of those
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: are ones that Biden has done less well in, in
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: the polling thus far than those three blue wall states
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: and are less traditionally democratic, especially Arizona and Georgia, which
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: are states that Democrats have really only won once in
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: a very long time. And so it just makes it
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: that much harder. You want the easiest path possible. So
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: if you're sitting in the Trump campaign, you really should
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: be pulling every lever you possibly can to get this done.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: So hopefully everyone stands pat. We get through till April
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: 18th and this doesn't happen, but I'm not done worrying
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: about it yet.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: If it does happen, some people have floated that Maine
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: could save the day because Maine's legislature is also in
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: session right now. They're scheduled to go out on April
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: 17th and Maine has a Democratic trifecta right now. Trump
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: won the extra electoral vote in Maine in 2016 and
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: 2020 because it's a very rural district. It's where it's
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: the district that Democrat Jared Golden represents. And so some
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: people have floated, well, if Nebraska does this, then the
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Democrats in Maine can just do the same thing. And
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: then Trump loses an electoral vote and Biden gains one.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: It feels like that's, from reading all the coverage, less
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: likely to happen even than Nebraska, just because of the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: way that Maine is set up in the legislature and
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: it gets very complicated. But that seems like a tall order.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems that way. I mean, yes, the governor
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: of Maine could call a special legislative session to bring
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: this up. look, I've tried to learn as much as
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I possibly can about the rules that govern the Maine
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: state legislature in the last three hours here. And I
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: wouldn't say I've gotten particularly far, but it seems like
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of ways in which a bill
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: could be blocked. And just in general, Maine has a
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: very bipartisan legislative tradition. So as I understand it from
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: reading people who cover Maine politics, this would be very
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: culturally at odds to jam this thing through. It's just
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: not how Maine Democrats and Maine people in Maine operate.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: So Yes, that option would possibly be on the table,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: but it's certainly a challenging one, I think.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: All right, so we talked about a lot of things
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: that are keeping us up at night. We can now
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: put one to rest. No labels, no problems, Dan. The
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal reports that the group will announce on
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Monday that they are abandoning their quest to run a
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: third-party bipartisan unity ticket in 2024 because they couldn't find
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: any candidates dumb enough to say yes. They apparently reached
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: out to 30 candidates 30 different candidates, no's all around.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: But they did raise $ 70 million in secured ballot access
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: in 19 states. So that's something, I guess. Obviously good news,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: though it does seem like the real third-party threat remains
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: RFK Jr. and to a lesser extent, Jill Stein, maybe
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Cornel West, but he's not on the ballot anywhere. What
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: do you think, Dan? No labels? Welcome to the resistance?
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Well, I think, look.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: The most important thing here is that a lot of
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: people who work for and around no labels got paid
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: a lot of money over the last year as they.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe you're going to say that.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, why else do you do this, losing this
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: total disaster of a losing– It's so much money. It's
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: so much money, people taking cuts of it, people getting
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: consulting fees, all for something that the Constitution says cannot
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: end with you being in the White House, right? So
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: it's just like– it's an absurd– grift that threatened democracy.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: And now let's put it to the side. I think
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: one thing I would like to say about this is
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of credit goes to a wide
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: coalition of groups led by Third Way and MoveOn who
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: raise awareness of the threat. They push back against the
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: arguments No Label was making. They helped expose this for
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: what it is, which helped, I think, prevent people like
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Larry Hogan or Joe Manchin or Chris Christie or these
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: other people to fall for this and get on this ticket.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: And And this was a group of people that included,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: this coalition included, obviously, Third Way, which is a moderate group,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: move on, a historically progressive group, the Democratic Party, people
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: all up and down the ideological spectrum. And so I
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: think that's the party united to stop this and raise
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: awareness about it. And it was successful. I think that's great.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: But you're right. The real threat here is primarily RFK Jr.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: and Jill Stein and where they get on the ballot,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: which we're still waiting to see. But if we can
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: get to just Donald Trump against Joe Biden in these
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: battleground states, we're in great shape. every additional person makes
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: it a little bit more challenging to win.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I did see that Matt Bennett, uh, who's up from
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: third way was saying in one of these pieces that, uh,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: they learned a lot of lessons in, uh, in defeating
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the no labels threat that they are going to bring
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: to bear on RFK junior now. So they're going to
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: turn their attention to him. And, um, you know, there's the, the,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: they're starting to turn the heat up on RFK junior,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: which is good. Uh, and I just saw that, uh, their,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: RFK Jr. 's campaign sent out a fundraising email that
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: said that the January 6th convicts, who they called activists,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: have been, quote, stripped of their constitutional liberties. And then
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the campaign had to walk it back and blamed it
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: on some new marketing staffer. This is actually very- Welcome
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: to the big leagues.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Well, this is very telling because these fundraising appeals are
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: incredibly optimized, right? They A-B test every iteration, right? And
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: when some message- hits, they double, triple down. What that
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: tells you is where RFK Jr. is finding financial grassroots
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: support is among people who feel that way about the
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: January 6th rioters. It's not just some marketing consultant who
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: just wrote up their hopes and dreams about what would
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: happen in a you know, post-Trump world to protect these,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you know, innocent patriots. It is, that's the content that
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: worked with their base. So I think it's very, very interesting.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: It's not just a dumb mistake. It's very telling about
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: the kind of campaign he's running.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And look, I know you talked to Liz Smith about this,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: but I think it's, in 2016, the Clinton campaign, they
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: didn't really want to give oxygen to Jill Stein and
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: some of these third-party candidates because the theory was like, oh,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: if you talk about them, if you make them known,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: then more people vote for them. The strategy is completely
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: different this time around. And I think that's smart because
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: you want to sort of expose RFK Jr. for who
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: he is, the lies he's told, the conspiracies he's spread.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I think you want people to have more information about him,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: not less, especially because of his name, right? And right now,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: he's just like, oh, a candidate running third party when
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I don't like both candidates? This is great. And the
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: more information you know about him, I think the less
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: popular he is. So I think it's a really smart
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: strategy that the Democratic Party and allied groups are going
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: all out on this one.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: The 2016 view that talking about Jill Stein would help
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Jill Stein was a very antiquated view of how information
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: spread in those days and a pretty tragic error in
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: my estimation, right? You had to publicly make the case
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: that a vote for Jill Stein was a vote for Trump.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: And it felt like you didn't really have to do
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: that because Hillary was probably going to win. And that's
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: what everyone thought in the polls. But that was a
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: terrible mistake. RFK Jr. is an even... Yes, In any scenario,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: now you need to raise awareness or someone's going to
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: raise awareness for you. But RFK Jr. is a particularly
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: one because the polling shows, as Liz pointed out to me,
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: the more people know, the less well he does. Because
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: he's getting on both sides, right? He has this patina
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: of liberal Democrat because of his name and some of
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: his positions on the environment. And he's sort of really
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: into this like health, climate world and agriculture and all
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: this food stuff. And you can expose what he really
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: believes on a whole host of things. And most importantly,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: what his That he can't win and that sending your
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: vote to him, Alex Trump, is very valuable. So, yes,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: shout from the rooftops. I think it's great the DNC
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: is doing it. It's great they brought Liz on board
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: to do this and spearhead that effort. And this is
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: like people talk all the time about Democrats don't learn
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: the lessons. I think that's largely unfair. But this is
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: a case where that lesson has absolutely been learned and
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: is being executed the correct way this time.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: All right. One quick thing before we go to break.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: A plain old ask. If you like what you hear
• 30:24
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• 30:26
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• 30:28
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• 30:30
  Speaker 3: John, can I just do this pitch for you more directly?
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great. I love that.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, let me do this.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: You know I just read the housekeeping.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: You read the housekeeping. This is the first you've even
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: heard about this. This Friend of the Pods program, it's great.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: You really like it. No, look, you're being humble about this,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: but you love it. And Tommy started this company seemingly
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: 100 years ago. Because you would watch Democrats get their
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: ass kicked in the media space by a huge right-wing
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: propaganda machine for a decade. That right-wing propaganda machine elected Trump,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: almost reelected him in 2020, and may elect him again
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: in 2024. And you started this company to push back
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: against that, right? That's why we have this podcast. That's
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: why all the content is out there. That's why this
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: stuff you're doing on social, to help inform our listeners,
• 31:12
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• 31:15
  Speaker 3: and against magic Republicans. And so- To build that operation,
• 31:20
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• 31:23
  Speaker 3: a great way to continue to help build that bulwark against, apologies,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: actual bulwark, to build that defense mechanism against right-wing propaganda
• 31:31
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• 31:38
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• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you said it because I was like, Dan,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: you forgot to toot your own horn.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Look, I'm just here. I've been listening to you do these.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: You get the polar coaster. I don't miss a polar
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: coaster episode. They're so good.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, look, I've been listening to you and my fellow
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: co-hosts here Do this very humble pitch for this incredibly
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: important program to support your largest effort for weeks, months now,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: and it's driving me bananas. And I thought I just
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: had to step in here.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I just feel like people have heard us blab on
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: about politics for so long, I.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Gotta move on. Hey, offline host, that's not how this works, right?
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: You gotta keep saying it over and over again. You
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: gotta say it more directly. So I'm here to do
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: that for you.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Dan.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Dan.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Cricket.com slash friends, check it out. You get all kinds
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: of good stuff. All right, when we come back, Senator
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders. Joining us now, the longest serving independent in
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Congress and a longtime friend of the pod, Vermont Senator
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders. Senator, welcome back to Pod Save America.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: Great to be here.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Let's get right into it. So you and I know
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: how important this election is. You and I are both
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: going to do everything we can to reelect Joe Biden,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: even though we don't agree with him on everything, like Gaza,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: which we can talk about. But not everyone in the
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: coalition that defeated Trump in 2020 feels the same way
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: we do, especially some progressives. What do you want to
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: say to them about why it's so important to vote
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: for Joe Biden?
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: Thanks very much for that question. Look, we are living
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: in crazy times and the challenges that our country and
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: the world face are probably the most dangerous for a very,
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: very long time. This is tough stuff. And I think
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: the first point to be made in answer to your
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: question is people have got to understand what a horrific
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: danger Donald Trump will be if he is reelected. If
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: you believe that climate change is real and a real
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: threat to the future of this planet and our kids
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: and grandchildren, Donald Trump thinks climate change is a hoax.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: If you think there's something wrong when three people own
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: more wealth than the bottom half of American society and
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: we have an unprecedented level of income and wealth inequality,
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump very clearly wants to give more tax breaks
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: to billionaires. If you think that our healthcare system today
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: is broken, Donald Trump wants to end the Affordable Care
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: Act and throw millions of people off the healthcare that
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: they have. If you think that women should have the
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: fundamental right to control their own bodies, something we have
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: taken for granted for decades, Donald Trump will be supporting
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: a national abortion ban and make it harder for women
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: to get abortions. And by the way, no tiny matter,
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: if you happen to believe in democracy and the right
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: of people to control their own lives, Donald Trump has
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: made it very clear that he will take us to
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: an authoritarian type of society. Those are the guys around
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: the world, strongmen around the world who do not believe
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: in democracy are his heroes. So it is absolutely imperative
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: that we defeat Trump, clearly the most dangerous candidate in democracy.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: maybe American history, all right? Now, do I have disagreements
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: with Biden? Do I have strong disagreements with Biden? The
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: answer is yes, I do. And I'm going to do
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: everything I can to move Biden in a more progressive agenda.
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: But I'm not going to throw the baby out with
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: the bathwater. I'm not going to allow Donald Trump to
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: become elected president. So what do we have to do?
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: We have to go forward in a several-pronged approach. Number one,
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: we defeat Donald Trump. Number two, at the grassroots level,
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: we mobilize people not only to vote for Biden, but
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: to support the many, many good progressive candidates who are
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: today under assault from AIPAC and other super PACs out there.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: One of the very nice things that I think does
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: not get the attention that it deserves is over the
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: last six, eight years, we have seen a real growth
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: of young, often people of color, progressives in the House
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: of Representatives. Far more, I suspect, than in the history
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: of this country, far more than when I was in
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: the House in the 1990s. We've got to protect those
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: people from the assault that they're going to be getting
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: hit with by super PACs. And thirdly, at the grassroots level,
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: we've got to continue the pressure for a progressive agenda,
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: an agenda, by the way, which the American people support.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: Health care is a human right. Broadening the trade union movement,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: making it easier for workers to form unions. And we're
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: making some real progress in that direction. Moving aggressively, not
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: only in this country, around the world to combat the
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: fossil fuel industry and save the planet from climate change,
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. So these are extraordinarily difficult times.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: And on top of all of that, we've gone through COVID,
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: gone through mental health crisis, going through that right now.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: But at the very least, Donald Trump must be defeated.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: All of us got to work.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: What would you say to a young Arab American in
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Michigan who says, I hate Trump. I don't want him
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: to win. I just don't know if I can bring
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: myself to vote for someone who keeps sending bombs to
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: this extreme right wing government that will not stop killing
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: and starving people in Gaza. Maybe I should vote third party.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: You're an independent. You coxed with the Democrats, but you've
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: been an independent your whole life. What do you say
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: to that?
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: I am the longest serving independent, I think, in the
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: history of the United States Congress. I have supported third
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: party candidates. And there's a time and a place. You know,
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: if you're running for Congress and you're running against some
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: right wing Republican and a corporate Democrat, give me a
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: ring and I may well support you. I'm not I
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: am not in the Democratic Party because I think the
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: Democratic Party is much too corporately and big money dominated.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: You know, I've been saying that for a few years.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: And I say to that young Palestinian, I understand exactly
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: where you're coming from. What is going on in Gaza
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: is unspeakable. It makes me literally sick to be thinking
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: about what's going on. The United States has for years
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: given a huge amount of money, a military aid to Israel.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: And right now, as you've just indicated, you have not
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: only a right-wing Netanyahu government, it's even worse than that.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: You got some religious fundamentalists who think that God is
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: talking to them And they have, you know, God is
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: telling them they have a right to do terrible things
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: to the Palestinians and God's to take over that land.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: That's what some of these people actually think. So it's
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: a horrible, horrible situation. And we, I would say to
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: that person, some of us, and I want you to
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: hear this, are working day and night. I'll be on
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: the phone as soon as I get off of this
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: podcast on an issue related to this. Working day and
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: night to try to turn the Biden administration around. What
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: Israel is doing now is in clear violation of American law.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: The law is quite clear that when American humanitarian aid
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: is blocked by a country, as is certainly the case
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: right now, you've got hundreds of thousands of children facing starvation.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Malnutrition is growing, and that is an issue that kids
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: will never recover from in their lives. When you have
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: that circumstance and you got hundreds, if not thousands of
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: trucks at the border ready to get through, and Israel
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: is blocking that, that is not only, to me, a
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: war crime, but that is a clear violation of American law.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: And we're working to do everything we can to change
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: the Biden policy. My own view has been, for months,
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: not another nickel. The leverage we have, what is the
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: leverage we have? The leverage we have is money, is
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: military aid. So the idea that we're sending bombs, the
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: idea that we're sending money to Netanyahu is, to me, reprehensible.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: So I say to that young person, your gut feeling
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: is right. And I'd have Palestinian friends who are worried
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: every day what's going to happen if their family members
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: have not already been killed. It is horrible. But all
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: that I ask is let's not make a horrible situation
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: even worse. Trump will be worse on that issue, let
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: alone every other issue. So it's a tough moment. That
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: is what I think.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So the White House says that in a call today,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: President Biden told Netanyahu that, quote, the strikes on aid
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: workers in the humanitarian situation are unacceptable. He underscored that
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: an immediate ceasefire is essential and said that, quote, U.S.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: policy with respect to Gaza will be determined by our
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: assessment of Israel's immediate action to address civilian harm, humanitarian
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: suffering and the safety of aid workers. How do you
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: take that statement? Do you take that to mean that
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: he might be finally ready to budge on conditioning aid?
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: As you know, there have been a lot of statements.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, one day I'm angry. You know, the president
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: is angry and the next day he's very angry. And
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: the next day he's very, very angry. You know, so what?
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: At the same time, there is support for more military aid.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: We're talking about $ 10 billion in a supplemental... bill that
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: I voted against for that reason. I'm not going to
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: give Netanyahu another $ 10 billion in military aid to continue
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: to kill women and children in Gaza. Now, I hope,
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, the president is not stupid, and I know
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: the president, and he is, in his heart, a very
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: decent human being. I know he's hurting from what's going on. Now,
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: why they have continued this policy, if you ask me
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: that question, I cannot give you an answer. I have
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: some speculation. I have some guesses. but I wouldn't even
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: say in public. I don't know why. But I would
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: hope that the president understands that from a moral perspective
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: and from a political perspective, because that young Palestinian in
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: Michigan is not the only person. The polls are very clear.
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: A majority of the American people, I think the last
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: poll I saw was like 52%, think the United States
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: should stop military aid to Israel. And among Democrats and
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: among young people, the numbers are much higher. So the
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: president is now engaged in a very, very difficult campaign.
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: So from a moral perspective and from a political perspective,
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: I hope very much that what he's saying today really
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: does indicate a change of policy. But we will know.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: You cannot continue to talk about your worries about humanitarian
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: situation in Gaza and then give Netanyahu another $ 10 billion
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: or more bombs. You cannot do that. That is hypocritical.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: What, in your view, would it look like for the
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: president to match his words with actions? And do you
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: think that the president himself would be able to stop,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: you know, congressional funding of further aid to Israel?
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: I think the answer is pretty simple. Mr. Netanyahu, I'm
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: here to inform you that if the border is not
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: open tomorrow, if thousands of trucks do not get in
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: to start feeding starving people, all military aid will cease.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: Have a nice day.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: How's that? Is that direct enough?
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: No, I think that was pretty good. I'd like to
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: hear that myself. All right. So most voters tell pollsters
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: that their number one issue in this election is the economy,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: especially the cost of living and prices that have remained high,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: even as inflation has come down. One thing you hear
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: a lot in focus groups is people who say, I
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: don't like Trump. I don't like a lot of Trump's policies,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: but I kind of liked the economy when he was president.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: They blame the pandemic for the economic downturn in 2020,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: and they haven't felt enough progress in their own lives
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: to give Joe Biden credit for all the great progressive
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: economic legislation that you've passed. Good.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: We'll do good.
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: And a lot of these people voted for Joe Biden
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: in 2020. Um, what, what's the argument you'll be making
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: to those voters?
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: The argument that I'll be making is in fact, we
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: have made progress. We are making progress. Uh, but that
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: we have a lot more that has to be done.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: All right. Um, I know you work for President Obama.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: We talked about infrastructure during that period. Well, you know what?
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: Biden has delivered. Our infrastructure is crumbling. We've gotten a
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: huge amount of money out to the states to start
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: rebuilding our bridges. And based on what happened in Baltimore,
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: it looks like we have to continue to do that. Roads,
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: water systems, wastewater plants, et cetera. We are making, under
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: President Biden, far more progress than we have ever made
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: before in dealing with a very powerful pharmaceutical industry. And
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: I was just, as you may know, in the White
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: House yesterday with the president on that issue. Have we
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: done enough? No, but we are making progress. If you're
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: a senior citizen, next year, no matter what kind of
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: illnesses you have and how many drugs you're taking, you
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: ain't going to pay more than $ 2, 000 out of pocket.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: That's a big deal. For the first time, we're beginning
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: to do what countries all over the world have done,
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: and have Medicare negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical industry rather
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: than accept the outrageously high prices they are giving us.
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: In terms of insulin, we are moving so that seniors
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: right now will not have to pay more than $ 35
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: per month for the insulin that they have. I have
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: worked with the administration on the issue of asthma and
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: COPD inhalers. Right now, if you have asthma, and 25
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: million Americans do, You're paying hundreds of dollars for an
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: inhaler that may be sold in Europe or Canada for
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: one-tenth the price. We have gotten a commitment from three
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: out of the four major manufacturers not to charge more
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: than $ 35 at the counter for two of those companies
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: that will go into effect June 1st, the other one
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: a few months after that. So we're making some progress there.
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: The president during a State of the Union address said, look,
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: I want to expand the cap on prescription drug costs
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: that we have gotten for seniors at 2,000. I want
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: to expand that to all Americans. So listen up. That
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: means if we can pull that off, no matter how
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: many chronic illnesses you have, no matter how many drugs
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: you're paying, you won't pay more than $ 2, 000 a year.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: That is a big, big deal. And that's what we're
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: working on right now. So in terms of women's rights,
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: I think the president has been very clear in making sure,
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: doing everything that he can to protect the women's rights
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: to control our own body. And if you look at
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: the economy right now, hey, in Vermont, we have a
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: massive labor shortage, a labor shortage, all right? Wages are
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: going up, beginning to tick up a little bit above inflation.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: So I think there are a number of good things
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: that are happening, but it has to be put, John,
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: in the context of what has been going on in
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: this country for the last 50 years. And that's what
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: I think people are feeling. So if you're sitting there
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: in West Virginia or someplace, likelihood is that you can't
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: afford health care. The idea of sending your kid to
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: college may be an impossible dream. The idea of you're
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: maybe one of the 60% of Americans who are living
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: paycheck to paycheck. Child care system is a disaster. And
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: you're worried maybe about climate change and what it will
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: mean to your community. So the problems we face are enormous.
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: They're not Biden's fault, frankly. They're not Trump's fault. They're
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: not Obama's fault. And we've gone on for a very
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: long time. We've seen a massive transfer of wealth. We
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: don't talk about it enough, all right? But right now,
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: you've got three people on top owning more wealth than
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: the bottom half of American society. You have more income
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: and wealth inequality than we've ever had as a nation.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: You have a corrupt political system dominated by billionaires right
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: through the super PACs. That's what we got. And I
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: think a lot of that frustration, oh my God, all
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: these things happening, got an immigration problem. You got a
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: crime problem. You got all these things. It's all Joe
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: Biden's fault. Well, it ain't all Joe Biden's fault. He's
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: making a little bit of progress. Do we have to
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: do a lot more? We do. So my message to
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: the president and his team has been pretty simple. And
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: that is take pride in what you've accomplished, which is
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: not insignificant, but recognize that the vast majority of American
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: people are hurting today. And we have to be bold
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: in taking on powerful special interests whose greed is destroying
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: our country. A minute ago, you were talking about inflation.
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: Wall Street buying up housing all over America, gentrifying communities,
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: raising rents. You've got to deal with that reality. You've
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: got the drug companies charging us 10 times more for
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: drugs than they do in other countries. You've got to
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: deal with that reality. You've got food companies making record-breaking
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: profits while elderly people can't afford groceries when they walk
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: into a grocery store. So, We've accomplished. Biden people should
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: take pride in what they've accomplished, but understand that much, much,
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: much more needs to be done, and they should campaign
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: on that basis.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the drug companies. When you were at the
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: White House with the president, you criticized the manufacturer of Ozempic,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Novo Nordisk, for charging $ 1, 000 a month for a drug
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: that apparently only costs $ 5 a month to make. They
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: actually responded to your criticism and accused you of oversimplifying
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: the science that goes into developing new treatments. Care to respond?
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: Somebody who failed biology in college, I don't want to
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: argue about the science of it. Look, the scientists, amazingly enough,
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: I am a fan of the scientists at these drug companies.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: They're coming up with some amazing stuff. cures. We have
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: to support them. But the industry itself sees their function
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: simply as making as much money as they possibly can.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: So you have 10 major drug companies last year that
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: made $ 110 billion in profits. They pay their CEOs $ 10, $ 20,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: $ 30 million a year. And meanwhile, in America, one out
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: of four people cannot afford the outrageously high cost of
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: prescription drugs. And the truth is, he has a point.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: The pricing system, drug pricing system, I don't know if
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: you have any familiarity with it. It is a disaster
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: in this country. No transparency. You've only got PBMs playing
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: their games. But bottom line is, there is no excuse
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: for Americans being asked to pay, in some cases— 10
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: times more than the people in other countries. That Ozembic,
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: for example, is sold in the UK, I think, for
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: $ 59 compared to $ 1, 000 in this country. Explain that away.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: You can't explain it. So we'll be on the phone,
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: I think, next Tuesday with the CEO of Novo Nordisk.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: We'll have a nice chat about how he's going to
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: lower prices in this country. Good.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about healthcare in the 2020 primary. You really
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: set the pace on healthcare reform with Medicare for All.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Even the candidates who didn't support your proposal pushed for
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: a Medicare-like public option. Joe Biden was one of them.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: None of that has come close to happening over the
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: last few years. What political lessons have you learned about
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: how we can someday get to a place where we
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: have truly universal health care in this country?
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: Well, it raises the issue to how flawed and in
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: many ways corrupt our democracy is, right? As I mentioned earlier,
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: you have one vote, and I got one vote, but
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: a billionaire can spend hundreds of millions of dollars electing Kansas.
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: If you look at the drug companies and the insurance companies,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: they're very bipartisan, aren't they? They give money to Democrats.
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: They give money to Republicans. They give money to anybody.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: But don't take us on. Allow us to make huge
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: profits at the expense of the American people. Now, we
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: can go on for many hours. I'm chairman of the committee,
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: and I know a little bit about this one. But
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: you've got a dysfunctional health care system. And I want, again,
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: people to hear how dysfunctional it is. We are spending
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: over $ 13, 000. Imagine that for every man, woman, and child.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: You're a family of four, $ 52, 000. That's Medicare, Medicaid, VA,
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: everything else, okay? And yet our life expectancy is far
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: below most other countries. If you're working class in America,
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: it's 10 years below the wealthiest people in this country.
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: We've got 85 million people uninsured or underinsured. One out
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: of four people can't afford prescription drugs. We don't have
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: enough doctors. We don't have enough dentists. We don't have
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: enough nurses. We don't have a pharmacist. We don't have
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: enough mental health counselors. It is a failed system. So
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: you're right. I believe that you've got to junk this system.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: The idea, all right, you're an employer, right? You employ
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: people here? So you're a nice guy. Maybe you have
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: good health insurance. Maybe you don't.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: I think we do, yeah.
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: Okay. But maybe the person across the street is not
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: a good employer. whose needs are just as good as
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: your employees, right? They work at McDonald's. They have crappy
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: health insurance. Why is that? COVID comes, people lose their jobs,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: they lose their health insurance. Why is health insurance attached
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: to your job? Does that make any sense at all?
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: It doesn't make any sense at all. It goes back
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: to the 1940s and World War II, as a matter
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: of fact. So what do we have to do? It's
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: not a radical idea. I live 50 miles away from Canada. John,
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: if you were in an automobile accident in Toronto, all right,
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: you spent a month in the hospital, do you know
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: what you cost when you get out?
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Not much.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Not as much as here.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: Zero.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Zero.
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: And do you know how much they spend per capita
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: compared to us on health care? How much? One half.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: So let's see.
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: They spend half as much per capita and there's no
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: out-of-pocket expense. Which system works better? Well, you know, I
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: think maybe the Canadian. But we can't even begin that
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: discussion in this country because of the power of the
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: insurance companies and the drug companies themselves. in giving all
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: kinds of campaign contributions, having a lot of influence over
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: the media, et cetera. So to get Medicare for all,
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: which is so commonsensical, we need a political revolution in
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: this country. And it's, you know, you got a right-wing
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: Republican party, you got a corporatist Democratic party in all
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: their respects, and we need a political revolution from down
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: below to transform the political system in this country and say, hey,
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: you know what? You're elected to Congress, you represent me
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: and not some big money, lobbyists.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Do you see, or are you hoping for any steps
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: in between what we have now and Medicare for all?
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Do you see a path for anything in the next.
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: Couple of years? You know, understanding that there's, you know,
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: we have no Republican support for Medicare for all. And,
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't know if we have 15 or
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: 16 Democrats in the Senate. So we have one third
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: of the Democrats and no Republicans. So I'm not going
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: to get that passed tomorrow. What I have focused on
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: with limited success is primary health care. Why did I
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: do that? because this system is so dysfunctional that what
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: it says is, okay, you don't have any insurance, and
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: you're gonna get sick, and you're gonna end up in
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: the emergency room, and it's gonna cost the healthcare system
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: a fortune, but we're not gonna let you have insurance
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: to get to a doctor. So what I wanted to
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: do is expand greatly community health centers. I'm a big,
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: and President Obama was as well. We worked on that
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: on Affordable Care Act, and we've done a lot since.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: So right now you have about 30 million Americans We're
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: getting their health care, maybe dental care, mental health counseling,
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: lower cost prescription drugs at community health centers, which are
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: big in California, by the way, and all over the
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: country and Vermont as well. So I try to come
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: up with a figure and I'd say, OK, how much
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: would it cost to make sure that every American could
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: walk into a community health center and get the health
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: care that they need? How much would it cost for
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: us to educate the doctors that we need? How much
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: would it cost for us to educate the nurses that
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: we need? How much would it cost us if we
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: were to lower what it would mean if we lowered
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: prescription drugs? And we put that into a bill. Well,
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: my Republican colleagues fell off the chair because it was
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: a lot of money. But at the end of the day,
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: you save money. When you keep people out of the hospital, right,
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: if I give you the medicine that you need or
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: you go to a doctor who diagnoses your problem early,
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: I keep you out of the hospital. So the system
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: has no problem spending $ 100, 000 on an operation for you.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Got a massive problem making sure you go to a
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: doctor when you need it. It is insane. So we
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: focused on primary health care. We made modest success. We
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: increased funding far more than inflation for community health centers.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: We made a good step over what we call teaching
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: health centers. We're getting resident doctors to get their training
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: in community health centers, in smaller rural hospitals where they
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: may stay in rural America. And we got some increases
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: for the National Health Service Corps. So if you want
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: to be a doctor or a nurse and you're willing
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: to serve in an underserved area, we'll forgive your debts.
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: But it's a long and complicated issue. But I think
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: focusing on primary health care will do a lot to
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: improve health care in America and save us money.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: You recently introduced legislation to reduce the standard work week
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: from 40 hours to 32 hours.
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: Your staff is shaking their heads. They're ready to implement
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: it right now.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Very popular here. Very popular here. Popular everywhere. It sounds great.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Americans work more hours than any other wealthy country. Most
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: of the gains in productivity have gone to the rich.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: One critique I heard at the hearing you held on
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: this legislation is, that for a lot of jobs in
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: the U.S., four days isn't feasible, and to make up
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: for the extra hours, companies would just end up hiring
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: part-time workers for lower pay and no benefits. What do
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: you make of that criticism and just the general, the
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: criticisms you've gotten on it?
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, not much. The 40-hour work week was established,
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: if my memory is correct, in 1944, I think it was. 1944.
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: And the world has changed a whole lot since then. And...
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: The bottom line here is not just that we as
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: Americans work a lot longer hours than people around the world.
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you get to Europe every now and then.
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: You talk to people in Germany where they get six
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: weeks paid vacation. When you have a baby, you have
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: long maternal leave and paternal leave and all that. So
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: we work a lot longer and harder than other people.
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: But what really galls me, which is tied into the
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: larger picture of our movement toward oligarchy, is just think
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: back since 1944, how the economy has changed. I mean,
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: the average worker now is far, far, far, far more productive.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: And yet people are still working these same hours. And
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: in terms of wages over the last 50 years, by
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: the way, wages are today not any higher than they
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: were 50 years ago. Inflation counted for dollars. So here's
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: what I think. I mean, I think what we have
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: got to begin focusing on, who benefits from this radical
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: change transformation of the economy in terms of technology, which
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: is only going to increase in years to come because
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: of AI and robotics, who's going to benefit from that?
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: Are we going to make Mr. Bezos and Mr. Musk
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: even richer, the high-tech companies even richer? Or are workers
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: going to benefit from this? This is not a radical idea.
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: I read an article after we had our hearing on
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: this issue that Richard Nixon in the 50s, when he
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: was running with Vice President, was talking about a four-day
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: work week or something like that. economists way back when.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: So what I want people to appreciate is that when
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: you have an explosion in technology, working people should benefit.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: And it should not be employers who say, well, hey,
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: I don't need you anymore. I'm going to throw you
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: out on the street. No job. So that's kind of
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: the purpose of why we did what we do. And
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: I think it really struck a nerve. I got to
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: tell you, I walk the streets, people come up to
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: me and talk to me about it.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Any of your colleagues on board?
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, one. Okay. The Senator Butler from California.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Have you guys tried out a four-day work week in
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: your Senate office?
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: No, I wouldn't let them do that. Not right now.
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: I don't want to be ahead of the curve on
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: that one. We're working too hard to try to get
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: a four-day work week for the rest of America.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: So you've spent your career talking about economic inequality is
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: the central issue of our time. We were just talking
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: about it. Since 2016, you've also forcefully and frequently spoken
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: out about the threat to democracy posed by Trump and
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: authoritarians all over the world. There's been a debate within
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: the Democratic Party about whether to focus this campaign on
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Trump's threat to democracy or the economic struggles of working people. Obviously,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: it's going to be both, but you know, you only
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: have so much time and resources as a campaign. What
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: are your thoughts on that debate? And do you see
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: a way to connect those two issues?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and the answer is, as you've just indicated, it
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: is going to be both. Look, what we have seen
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: in state after state is that Republican efforts to take
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: away a woman's right to control her own bodies really resonates,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: and not just with Democrats, but with independents and Republicans
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: as well. It is a horrible idea. I mean, women
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: have fought so hard for these basic rights, and to
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: take them away is disgraceful. So I think the issue
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: of abortion front and center is a very important issue.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: I think you have a lot of people in this
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: country who may not agree with me politically, may not
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: agree with Biden politically, but are really repelled by the
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: pathological lying and the grossness and the authoritarian nature of
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump and are going to say, well, you know what?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: I may not agree with Biden, but I just, you know,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: I want this country to remain democratic and not move
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: us toward authoritarianism. So those are important issues. And Democrats
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: have got to focus on them, and I will. But
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you something else. What really galls me, coming
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: from a working-class family, is when I go around the
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: country and I see working-class people who are now voting Republican,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: that trend, as you know, has gone on for a
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: number of years. And that has a lot to do
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: with the fact that, in my view, the Democratic Party
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: has turned its back on working-class issues. So you have
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: in America today, As I mentioned earlier, 60% of our
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: people living paycheck to paycheck. Minimum wage at the federal
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: level remains at $ 7. 25 an hour. People can't afford to
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: send their kids to college. Our healthcare system is broken.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: Our childcare system is largely broken. And people worry, appropriately so,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: that the next generation, their kids, will be even worse
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: off than they are.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: You cannot.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: I think from a moral perspective and from a political perspective,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: turn you back on the vast majority of people in
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: this country who are working people.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: And what the Democrats did way back in the 70s,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: maybe earlier than that, they said, hey, Republicans are getting
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: all this corporate money. Why don't we start topping some
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: of the money from the rich? Well, they did. And
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: they raised huge amounts of money from the rich. And
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: the working class has said, you know what? You used
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: to be the party of the working class in this
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: country under Roosevelt, under Truman, under Kennedy. Day after day,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: that has dissipated. And I think the Democratic Party has
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: got to reclaim what it once was, the party of
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: the working class. But you can't do that. People are smart.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: They may not be politically conscious, know what goes on
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: in Washington every day. They don't. But they're not stupid.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: And they understand that if you don't have the guts
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: to take on the wealthy and the powerful, which, by
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: and large, Democrats don't, why would we trust you? And
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: then what really bothers me, in a country which has
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: so many problems, people are saying, well, you know what?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: Democracy really isn't working for me. If you were an
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: ordinary person and you are earning, you know, you live
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: in paycheck to paycheck. Can't afford health care. You're worried
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: about your kids. And somebody, oh, democracy, democracy really ain't
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: working for me. And Trump comes along and says, I'm
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: going to clean up all this crap. I'm tired of democracy. Hey,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: give me the power. I'll take care of the problems
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: for you. Now, that's familiar. We've heard that historically, right?
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: Germany and other countries. But it has an appeal to
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: it because people are tired, if I may use a word,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: political bullshit that they hear every day, right? They're tired
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: of it. They don't believe it anymore. Tired of the
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: press releases and the 30-second stuff and all that stuff.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: So I think it is very important to answer your question. Obviously,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: issues of democracy, very important in this campaign. Issues of
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: women's rights, enormously important in this campaign. But from a more,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: you know, again, those are my people. I come from
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: a working class background. I am not going to turn
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: my back on the people that I came from. you know,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: whether it's, you know, Vermont or anyplace else. So it's
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: an either, it's a both. And the Democratic Party has
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: got to reclaim its roots and stand up for working people.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: And by the way, by the way, in fairness to
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden, Joe Biden was the first president in American
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: history to stand on a picket line at the United
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: Auto Workers strike. He stood there with those workers. And
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: that was, I was very proud of him for doing that.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: And he's been a strong supporter of the growth of
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: organized labor, which is one of the very, very positive
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: things I'm seeing politically and economically in America today.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: You talked about sort of the defection of working class
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: voters from the Democratic Party. That's been going on for
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: decades with white voters. In recent elections, we've started to
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: see some attrition among Latino voters, a little bit with
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: black voters, and especially younger black and Latino men. And
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: maybe they're not Republican yet, but they're, you know, listening
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: to Joe Rogan and they're kind of, what do you
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: think's going on there?
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: I wish I could give you, you know, some kind
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: of brilliant answer. I can't. But I think there is
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: a feeling that status quo politics just is not working
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: and people are tired of it. And then you say, hey,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: we passed this bill and it's going to do something
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: in five years from now. Hey, you know, loosen up there, man.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: Lighten up.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Things are going great.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: They don't believe that. And people don't believe it. I
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: think the country and I think COVID-19 There is pain
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: in this country and, you know, COVID itself. We have
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: millions of people with long COVID right now and kids
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: are not going to school to the way that, you know,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: and there's a dissatisfaction. And I think that is one
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: of the things that is turning a lot of people off.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: If you're turned off to the political process, you're more
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: likely to vote for Trump than for Biden because Trump
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: says everything is crap out there. I'll take care of it.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: You said in January you'd make a decision on whether
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: you're running for re-election in the near future. Filing deadline
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: in Vermont is May 30th. Have you decided yet?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: May 30th. What do we know?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: We're April 4th.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: Closing in on it. All right. Let me say a
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: word on that one, which I feel fairly strongly about.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: I got to tell you, honestly, I get around my
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: state a lot. And not one person, normal person, has
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: ever come up and asked me about that. But about 1,000
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: media people have. Now, why is that? See, media, you know,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: correct me if I'm wrong here. My recollection is that,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: you know, 30, 40 years ago, campaigns really began in September,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: Labor Day. Remember that? Am I wrong on that?
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't around then, but yeah.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: But you read about it.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: I don't remember it. Yeah, yeah, right.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: And what you got now, and I think largely foisted
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: by the media, by the way, is never-ending campaigns. And
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: I don't think the American people are happy about it, frankly.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: You know, I was elected to work for the people
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: of Vermont, not to be campaigning all the time. And
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: by the way, I'm known by 99% of the people
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: in Vermont. Some like me, some don't like me. I'm
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: probably not going to change too many views. You know,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: they know me. But right now, what I am focusing
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: on are things like lowering the cost of prescription drugs,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: expanding healthcare, demanding the wealthy stop paying their fair share
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: of housing, building affordable housing. I'm kind of busy doing that.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: And I think the people of Vermont are tolerant and
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: want me to do my job. And at the appropriate time,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: we'll let you know about my future political plans. All right.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for joining Pod
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Save America, as always. I had to try, you know.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: Good. Thanks for having me.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Take care. Thank you to Bernie Sanders for joining us.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: Everyone have a fantastic weekend. And we'll be back with
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: a new episode on Tuesday. Bye, everyone. If you want
• 1:07:45
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