Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Johnson and Bentley Family Murders - Part 2

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Johnson and Bentley Family Murders - Part 2 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: This is part two of the Johnson Bentley family murders.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: So if you are yet to have listened to part one,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: be sure to do that because we're diving a little
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: bit deeper today.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: My name is Nicole, my name's Ben, and you're listening.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: To Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. Listener question
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: is that much.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Spring is in the air and part two is here.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I know a few people waited an extra week because
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: they like to compress part one in part two, but
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: it's a nice and warm weather. Spring is in the air.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: We have chicks that are in our house and really
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: loud as they are like super massive.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: And chicks outside or not chicks chickens outside, and this
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: is funny. We need to catch us on camera our chickens,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: which I think a lot. Do they sing some sort
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: of egg song when they lay an a I don't
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: know if they're letting us know or a rooster or whatever.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's communication with a rooster supposedly.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: But our one dog, Ripley, whenever they are singing this
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: egg song, she will howl with them.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good typical husky. So she gets talking with the chickens.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: So the chickens are talking and the husky's talking. It's
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: it's quite the sight.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. We need to get this on some sort
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of ideo, I.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Think, so it'd be funny. Yeah.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: But we had some geese fly over our home this morning,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: which was pretty cool.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Those good old birds, good old Canadian attack birds
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: coming home for the summer.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So that means I think we're in the clear here.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Be careful, be careful what you say, because you never
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: know what's going to happen.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: It is only March and it's Canada.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: So we've had some pretty big snowfalls in like late April,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: and so you never know. You never freaking know.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: That's true. But I have a good feeling this time.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I have. I can feel it in my bones.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I can feel it in the air. It's
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: still not summer. Spring and fall are the same as
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: winter in Canada. Summer is like Mexico, but spring and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: fall it's winter.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, touche. Okay, So we have some lovely patrons to think,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: do we not?
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: We do? I got a whole schwack load right here
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: on my phone, ready to think. So starting with Becca
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Karen Shoemaker, Alexandria, Fabian Scott, Eagley, Vanessa Lee, and Julie Snyder.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you all very much for showing us the love
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: and support over and Patreon. You guys are incredible. Actually,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to say anything just yet because we
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: just figure this out, but I might as well say
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: it now. We are working on ads free for Patreon.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: We are, so this episode and last episode are the
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: starting markers for getting ads free. We're not going back
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: to our whole library, but from here and out you
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: can get ads free by signing up a Patreon. The
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: only caveat is I know we have a lot of
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: listeners on Spotify. Spotify currently is not supporting it with
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: our hosting platform Acast, so you can get ads free,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: you just have to listen on a different platform.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Fortunately, hopefully that's something maybe they got on their list.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I really hope. So I was talking to them just
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the other day and they were like, because I was
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: trying to figure this all out, and they said that
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: that's kind of on Spotify shoulders. But I was also like, yeah,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: but you guys need to request it though, too, so
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: hint hinge nudge, nudge, you know, so like, if you
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: guys want it, you're not going to like sit back
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: and just hope they do it. You got to like
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: go for it. So hopefully if I harass a little bit,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: maybe it might make something happen.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: We'll just keep nudging in there, you know. Yeah, and
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: it's almost the end of the month, which means that
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: patrons are going to have a exclusive episode here pretty
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: dang quick.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Definitely. So next episode and the exclusive episode is most
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: likely going to be recorded on the road because you
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: and I are hitting a road trip for a few
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: days over Easter ar so.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: With the dog. Ohs, it's going to be a grand time.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a good chance that those are going
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: to be recorded when we're just chilling out somewhere.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, So I feel like, you know, I
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: actually didn't get too much flak. I didn't get too
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: much flak.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Marissa calls you out big time.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Patri Clarissa, But I just I just pinned it
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: on you.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that. Thanks.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, So we're going to just get right in here.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I have a little bit of a recap that I'm
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: going to read just to refresh your memory. You know.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: So we had a family of six, there's three generations.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: They met up in Wells Gray Provincial Park for a
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: two week camping adventure. Unfortunately, the families didn't return as
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: expected and the park was searched hirishly for any sign
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: of the missing families. Eventually, the Johnson's car was found,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: which turned the case into a homicide investigation when all
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: six members of the family's remains were found in the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: burden out Chrysler. Right, we talked about how the investigation
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: was very thorough, even leading the team across Canada and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: a nearly exact duplicate of the Bentley's truck and camper unit.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: And at the end of part one we were just
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: introduced to David Shearing, who appeared to not be the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: best of characters with the investigation team set to interview him.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Was that all ring a bell there?
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: It really does? Yeah? Because he was up north in
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: what was the place, Tumbler Ridge. I was gonna say,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: with the dinosaur footprints. Yeah, he was chilling up there, gotcha? Okay?
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Okay. So with the police and tumblr Ridge already being
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: familiar with Shearing for possession of stolen property charge and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: an upcoming court appearance scheduled for November twenty first, getting
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: cheer and in to talk to the team investigating the
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Bentley Johnson murders. Wasn't going to be all that difficult,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: but they wanted to do it in a way that
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: caught him off guard in regards to this six murders.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: So we didn't have time to come up with some
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: sort of story, right, Yeah, which I'm like, good on ya.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: He had just spent the night partying with a friend
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: in Dawson Creek and was traveling back to Tumblr Ridge
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: via bus when the investigating team was ready for him.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: They had grounds to arrest Shearing's friend. So that was
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the plan. Okay, they'd arrest him the friend, take him
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: back to Dawson Creek, and hope they could also convince
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Cheering to tag along without actually arresting him.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Oh I see, yeah, you want to ride sort of thing.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Well, but it's like it's interesting that it does work.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting because he was just in Dawson Creek,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: arrived to Tumblr Ridge, but now the police wanted to
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: take them back to Tumblr Ridge. Yeah, so he was
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: just like going back and forth. I'm not sure the distance.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's like an hour ish. Don't quote me
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: on that.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I can't remember last time I drove between those two
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: was it's been a while.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So they did have a backup plan though, if
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: he did not want to go back, they were going
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to bring up the hit and run that he was
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: supposed supposedly involved in back in nineteen eighty Okay, but
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: with the promise of a ride back to tumblr Ridge.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: After being questioned cheering, did agree?
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: You go?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Who can turn down a free ride? Right? Why not?
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Don't have to pay for gas, You just get home.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: You can have your drinks with your buddy who now
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: is arrested, and the police are going to escort you home.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Sounds like a great free cab ride.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I mean, I'm pretty sure i'd
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: be like, nah, I'm good.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But to a drunken redneck hillbilly in what year
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: was this, nineteen eighty two? Yeah, to a drunken redneck
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: hillbilly in the eighties, sounds great.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: He was already home and they want to take him
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: back to where he just came from.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, I thought he was. He was out somewhere at
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: his buddy's place and wanted to take him.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: They were partying. Is okay? This it's very it's it's
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: very confusing. They were partying in Dawson Creek. Yes, they
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: live in Tumba Ridge. Yes, so they took a bus
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to Dawson Creek to party. Yes, then they were coming
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: back to Tumba Ridge and Tumbler Ridge is like, no,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you need to go back to Dawson Creek for questioning.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I So it's like this back and forth book.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I missed the butt the butt.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: It's honestly surprising that he agreed, because I think I'd
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: be like, no, but he has already been in trouble
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: with the law and probably doesn't want to piss him off.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: And he knew he wasn't arrested. It was just questioning,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: so he's like fine.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: They might have like played the card like hey, you know,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: like help look after your buddy, because once he's done questioning,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: like you can help get him home or some Yeah,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: it might have been that. And then he saw like
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: pictured as the good guy taking.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Care of his touche. I think he kind of liked
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: being pictured way.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm also honestly picturing him because you keep saying
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: his name his last name, Shearing. Yeah, I'm just picturing
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Ed Shearing.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, poor Ed. Okay, Saturday November nineteenth of
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three. This is fifteen months it's the time
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: of the murders. Sergeant east Ham, the lead investigator on
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: the case, finally got his chance to talk to sharing.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: We've been working for this. They technically didn't have a
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: lot of hard evidence against him, but they felt in
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: their gut that he was their man. And sometimes you
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: just got to listen to that gut feeling.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes, but I don't know, there's ugh I feel
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: like as an investigator. Though, an investigator, you have to
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: follow the facts over your gut.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: You do. But I'm one of those people that have
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: my guts usually not wrong. So I mean, some people
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I think they're it sounds so funny their gut, like,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: how's their gut leading them? But some people I feel
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: like have more intense feelings than other people understandable.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I just I just want to make make my stance.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Like gut feelings generally, yeah, they're the things to follow. However,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: as an investigator, as a job, you need to be
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: able to disconnect yourself and follow the evidence and the
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: facts first true true.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: So the goal was to get him to confess without
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: a lawyer involved, but also not to have sharing. Feel
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: that right was being taken away from him. Either they
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: wanted to follow the book, there was no way, after
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: all their hard work they were going to have sharing
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: back on the streets from an air on their part.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: So reading how Eastham went about preparing for the interview
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: was like fascinating. It almost seemed like it was a
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: form of art. So he went he introduced himself or sorry,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: this is the steps he kind of took. Introduce yourself.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Get them comfortable by offering them coffee, some smokes as
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you're pouring coffee. This was the eighties, right, so smokes
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: they could smoke in the interrogation room. Get them talking
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: about their life, maybe good stuff in their life, like
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: their parents. Make them feel really good about them.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: You're buddy buddying up to them.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Establish a friendship in a very short period of time,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: and also be familiar. So Shearing was a bit of
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a cowboy. So the members of the four members on
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: this investigating team, they present themselves as a cowboy. They
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: were also cowboys that day. East Ham. He even wore
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: a cowboy hat, jean shirt and leather vest. Oh, like
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: they went next level.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: I was so.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I was impressed. So east Ham began he asked shit
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Sharing how long he'd been in tumblr Ridge, if he
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: had a job at the moment, which he did have
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: one up until two weeks ago, and he asked him
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to tell him a bit about himself, starting with his parents.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Like I had mentioned in part one, Shearing's dad passed
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: away from cancer the previous spring. He was rightfully so
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: very upset about this, but he had begun drinking heavily
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and start and getting into more trouble within a month
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: or so after the funeral. As Eastam proceeded asking Shearing
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: about his life, he began to relax, which is exactly
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: what they were after, because when you first came in there,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you know he's like arms crossed, which are Eastam said,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: You're not going to get anything from anyone in there.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So as they're talking to him, you know, Shearing's arms
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: started to hang down by his side, and you know
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: he could tell that he was like and.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I've watched a lot of interrogation room sort of stuff
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: on YouTube. Mind you, It's not anything scientifical by any means,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: but I've watched a lot of these sort of things
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: where they break down body language of people's demeanor changing
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: for the better and for the worse, right, and it's
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: it's fascinating the slouches, or like how when they they'll
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: leave a room, for example, and they'll like, of course
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: now modern day we have cameras running, and they read
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: that body language when they're gone, and they'll leave the
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: room for an extended period of time for no reason.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: They'll just let you stew and then they'll come back
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: like a quick comment, Oh yeah, did you want a
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: coffee or something? I'll go grab you one and taking it,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Like getting a coffee should take like two minutes, but
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: then they take like ten.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Like things like that, and you're kind of why are
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: they taking so long?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then they look for that body language change
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: on your own, and then they also look forward of course,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: like you're saying when they're trying to get you to
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: relax and open up.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I am a very awkward person, especially with my
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: body language. I feel like, so I'm not sure if
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I would ever like fully open up in a situation
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: like that where I felt like I looked relaxed. I
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: There's so many things to read though, Like a glance
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: at the door could mean something, yeah, nodding your head
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: or looking left versus right, fidgeting with your fingers or
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: your hands and your lap or down to your side,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: are you sitting up straight? Are your feet out? Are
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: you turned away? Like? There's so many things, and I
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: can think of things, but I mean I probably don't
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: know what they really mean. Yeah, but wow, I highly
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: recommend you dive in that rabbit hole because it's it's good.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I mean, it's a whole form of art.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Like I said to it, I think.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: So, after much small talk, east Ham finally got to
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the important stuff and asked Sharing if he knew why
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: he was here, which he responded that he wasn't, actually
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: too sure, that he didn't have anything to hide and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: he was an honest guy. He also asked if they
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: were the guys investigating the Johnson Bentley murders. So Shearing
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: asked this, which to east Ham considered he considered the
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: strike one that he was aware that they were investigating that,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because they had not said anything to that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: extent yet.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: And they're in a completely different town right now, aren't they.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they are, Well, he knew I think that
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: they This investigating team was from Kamloops. So maybe I
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: don't know, but he still he would have been reading
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: something and saw their names.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Or something, pictures or something. Yeah, he would have. He
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: would have known.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Because even when Shearing came into the attachment and uh
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: east Ham introduced himself or whatever, there was some like
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: something in cheering, like a little bit of a holy
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: fuck kind of thing, so like he knew. They chatted
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: about that briefly. East Ham had previously been interviewed about
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the murders because the police, remember we're going door to
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: door in Clearwater. Yeah, they let him know that a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: lot of the citizens in Clearwater were eager to help
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: them with the investigation, just to make Sharing stir in
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: his seat a little bit, like, you know, they have
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of people on their side here to help
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: with this. And then they brought up the hit and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: run incident from a couple of years ago to surprise
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Sharing and had him relaxed once again, thinking this was
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: actually the only reason that they called him in. He
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: quickly and easily admitted to this incident. Of course, right,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, it's still a murder, which is horrible,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: but it's not six murders, so hitting and killing. He
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: hit and killed Dave Carter. He left the scene of
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: the crime and he did not report it to police
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: because he had had a few drinks. They got this
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: admitted in a written statement by Sharing, and he even
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: like initial and they.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Probably went with along the conversation of like, yeah, oh,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: like you like if you fully like do a written
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: statement on this, like, well it was an accident. Yeah,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you'll get this brushed under the rug.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, like even east Tam said, I mean you're
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: not You're probably not going to get much for that,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: like two years or something, right, which I'm sorry, but
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: that's still terrible. So once that was complete, east Ham
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: switched gears and asked Sharing what he thought about the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Johnson and Bentley murders. How they were killed so close
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to home, to his home. He said it was pretty
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: bad for the community. He then asked, do you know
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: where the car was found? Shearing said yeah. He then
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: asked do you know where the truck was found? Sharing
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: responded yeah again. Then he said you also know where
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: they were killed, and he responded Bear Creek, which was
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: actually a piece of holdback information. No one outside of
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the arsump he had known for sure where the murders
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: had taken place.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, they're going to bait him something. Yeah,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: that was strake too, damn.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Realizing the question he had just answered, Sharing said I
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: think I need to speak to a lawyer now.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no shit.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Eastam distracted that thought though, he said, you know what,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: let's get a coffee. I'll go get you a coffee,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: would you like one? So he did that. He returned
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: with the coffees. He agreed with Sharing that he did
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: need a lawyer, but continued distracting him with conversation until
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: he said, you knew you would come for you, didn't you, David,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to which David or Sharing agreed and that was three.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: What an idiot? I know, I know you knew we'd
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: come for you. Yeah, I did what you just admitted
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: this shit?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: What the fuck?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But like Eastam said the book, I mean a lot
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: of people they do terrible things and they feel like
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: they do want to get it off their chest.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I think right, I'm sure.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: So the interview continued, was Shearing little by little, revealing
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: how he had seen the six family members camping. On
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: his way home from work. Later that evening, he went
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: for a short walk through the bush and found himself
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: heading to their campsite. He watched them carry her curiously
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: for some time before heading home. The next night, he
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: returned with his twenty two. He had first shot all
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: four adults, then he moved on to the two girls
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: who were in bed in the tent at the time
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and shot them at dead as well. He placed the
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: bodies of the adults in the backseat of the Johnson's
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: car as we know, and the two girls' bodies in
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the trunk. He collected everything that was lying around the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: campsite and stuffed it in the camper before driving both
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the car and truck to a clearing about three hundred
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: or four hundred feet from the scene until he dealt
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: with them in the coming days. During this time, he
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: even went about illustrating two drawings for the investigators, one
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: of them indicating where he had left some of the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: victims stolen possessions, and another describing the crime scene. So
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: he's just drawn his life away, really, which you know what? Good?
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, good, yeah, He's give him some fucking Crayola
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: crayons and he's just like sitting here doolin happening as
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: a pig and shit.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he did like four or five fucking illustrations, So.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Sounds like he's reveling in this, honestly.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's odd to
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: me that he just went about it, but I think
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: he also realized like he's not going to get away
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: with this at this point.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he already admitted it.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Shearing went on to say that he had looted
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the camper of anything he thought was valuable and that
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: this was the motivation for him behind the crimes.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: That's the motivation I was waiting for the most. That's it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he stealing shit and selling it.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Fuck.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: He agreed to be taken to the murder site and
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: the two locations the vehicles were found to re enact
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: his crimes. Additionally, more stolen items of the victims were
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: recovered by police at Sharing's parents ranch, where he was
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: living at the time. On Monday morning, November twenty one,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, Sharing appeared in court and was charged
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: with six counts of second degree murder. On April sixteenth,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, Sharing pleaded guilty to those six counts
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: of second degree murder, and the following day, was. He
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: was sentenced to concurrent terms of life imprisonment with no
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: possibility of parl for twenty five years, and this was
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the first time in Canadian history that twenty five years
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: was given on a second degree murder. Wowow, which I'm.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, good lad, thank you, no shit.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: The fact that he just like, you know, pleaded guilty
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and everything, it's just so interesting. Hey.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you say, he knew he was caught,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: and some people like that just kind of want to
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: get it off their chest. Almost. The thing that really
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: gets me is that he found himself walking towards the campsite. Yeah,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: and then he watched them and then just came back
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: with the twenty two to kill them all and steal
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: some shit in their camper.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Are you fucking kidding me?
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Yep? Like what but this would be a pretty quick
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: damn episode. Eh, so you're ready for some more.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I was actually looking at the time. I was like, oh,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: it's like twenty minutes.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: So for all intents and purposes, the case was over.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Except but Eastam, who lived with this case for almost
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: two years, wanted to cash in what he felt he
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: was old.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Oh fuck.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Before the trial, Eastham made a deal with Hearing, saying
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: when the try was over, he wanted the truth from
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: the convicted killer. He never believed that Shearing took six
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: innocent lives just to steal some of their possessions.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't believe it either. That it's bullshit.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And though he had a good idea, he wanted to
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: know what the real motive behind the murders was.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, because this was absurd to me. I'm like,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: how like he could have fucking parted out the vehicles
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: for more than what he's given in the camper? His
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: fucking like the cooler, the food and the cooler probably
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: would have been more than what they've got in the camp. Like,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: it's bullshit.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea what the real motive may
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: have been? No, you're not gonna like this, Ben?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Was it sexual.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: While the rest of the RCMP team involved in the
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: case went out to celebrate their their success, the flow,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: east Ham found Cheering. He was now twenty five, and
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: he was in a police holding cell wanting to be
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: or waiting to be processed and transferred to prison, and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: he gave him one last try. Cheering received the equivalent
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: to a first degree murder sentence and couldn't receive more
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: than twenty five years without eligibility for parole. So Eastam
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: felt he really had nothing to lose by telling him
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: what he wanted to know. He laid it right on
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the table and said, there's a couple things that don't
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: sit well with me, and you know what they are.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: What's gnawing at me right now is I think you
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: sexually abuse those girls before you killed them.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they knew it. I fucking knew it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: You told me some time ago that you would consider
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: telling me the rest of the story after you were sentenced. Well,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I'm here to collect David, and I'm not taking no
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: for an answer. Oh I'm like shaking because this shit
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: just Yeah. Cheering contacted his lawyer because by law, he
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: didn't actually have to tell Eastam anything, but his lawyer
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: instructed Sharing that whatever he was going to tell him
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: was his decision. Knowing that Eastam still had some power
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: with the parole report he would be writing, so Cheering
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: gave in and he said, I guess I saw them
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: there at the Bear Creek site one of those nights
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: on my way home from work. I think it was
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Thursday or Friday. I saw the family there, A couple
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: of older folks and two young girls. I guess I
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: got it in my mind that I wanted them. Apparently,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: during the investigation, it was determined Shearing had an interest
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: in young girls. An older woman in his universe was
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: about sixteen years old. Whether it was some sort of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: social six social behavior, or perhaps a lack of self confidence,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: young girls were in his life and he related to them.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: He said, I went back, and I'm not sure if
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: it was that night or the following night. I knew
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I was going to have to kill those other four
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: to get to the girls.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I fucking knew it. Yeah, I fucking knew it.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: It takes just such a dis like this is. It's
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: just beyond disturbing.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: When he followed or when he returned the following night,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: he watched the family in the bush for about forty
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: five minutes, waiting for the girls to go to bed,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and once he was satisfied that they were in bed,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: he went for it. He crept behind the camper with
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: his rifle in hand. When one of the women actually
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: saw him, she started standing up and cheering yelled out,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: don't move. I got a gun. Then Bob Johnson, which
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: is the dad, stood up and he shot him. He
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: thought he hit him in the throat because he was
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: gurgling and making a lot of noises. George Bentley then
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: started running towards the truck because I believe he had
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: a gun in there, and Shearing shot him next to
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the passenger side door. Jackie, the mother of the girls,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: started running to the tent and she was shot in
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the head. Finally, Edith was trying to get into the
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: camper and Cheering came up behind her and shot her
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: in the head as well. Once the adults were all dead,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the obstacles were out of his way.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Yep, I fucking I'm like, this makes so much sense
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: in my head. Yeah, because the whole idea of yeah,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I rated some shit in the camper, it fucking made
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: no sense. He found himself just walking to their site
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: and like what and then watching for a while and
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: then going back and coming like there's a fucking purpose
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: for what he claimed And the as far as I knew,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: there was no attachments and that or no like personal
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: knowledge of who these people were.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: So and you're like they did nothing wrong to him Whatoever, So.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: When you're like do you know what the motive could be?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, the only fucking thing is sexual and that
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: fucking makes me sick like a nasty mofo. This he's
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: a piece of shit. Yeah, he makes me fuck. He
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: makes my blood boil so much.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I know it is beyond disturbing. He went over to
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the tent and told the girls that there were some
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: bad people out there and that their parents had told
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: him to stay back so they could go and get help. Apparently,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: while the girls stayed in the tent, sharing shot their
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: dad a second time as he was still alive, and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: he loaded the bodies of the four adults into the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: backseat of the family car and covered them with a blanket. Then,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: after cleaning up some of the camp site, he crawled
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: into the tent with the girls, and in the book,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: east Ham didn't go into much detail. He just said
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Cheering was lucky he wasn't armed at the time, like
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: as he was confessing this yeah wow. Sheering then said
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: after he got dressed that he and the girls took
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: down the tent and cleaned up the rest of the site.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: They asked him where their parents were a couple of times,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: but they did everything. He said that he wanted them
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: to do so, he figured they believed him when he
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: said that they were off getting help. East Ham did
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: not believe this. He knew the little girls would have
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: most likely seen everything, being that the scene outside of
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the tent would not have been a quiet one, and
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: the reason they were listening to him was because they
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: were scared out of their fucking minds.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definite.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Cheering then drove the girls in the car. Their dead
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: parents and grandparents were piled in the back seat of
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: this car, and he drove them to the family ranch.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: At the ranch, he got the girls set up in
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the tent and told them the bad people or biker
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: people as he referred to them as, were still looking
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: around for them, so they had to stay put, and
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: he walked back to the campsite to retrieve the truck
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: slash camper. When he returned, Cheering told the girls he
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: had saved their parents and helped them get away, stating
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: that the girls thought of him as a hero.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure they fucking didn't.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Cheering continued to keep them alive for nearly a week,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: oh fuck, staying with them. Both had his family ranch
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: and a small fishing cabin on the Clearwater River. He
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: had left the cabin after they were nearly discovered. A
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: prison guard was supervising prisoners from a local jail who
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: were fishing on the river, and he actually came to
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: the door of the cabin to tell Shearing like not
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to be alarmed, and Shearing had the girls hide behind
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the door and told them to stay quiet, and the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: guard unfortunately didn't notice anything unusual with the encounter, which
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: is just like makes your heart just fucking sink.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, I can't imagine the fucking hell those girls
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: would have gone through in that week.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. When the coast was clear, Shearing said he
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: took the girl's back to his ranch. Then one at
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: a time, he took each girl for a walk in
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the woods, told them to turn around so he could
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: piss shot them in the back of the head. He
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: did this first to eleven year old Karen, so that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: he could have a night alone with Janet in the camper,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: telling her he had tied his sister to a tree.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: East Ham knew Shearing had left out a lot of details,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: but he knew enough. No one will ever know the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: extents of the torment the girls suffered. After the death
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: of their parents and grandparents.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, what a fucking absolute monster.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know those girls were eleven and thirteen.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Like it.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: It makes me I don't it's hard to even put
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: in words what it makes you feel because it is
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: so disturbing, so sad and just got wrenching.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: To double check the story, east Ham found the prison
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: guard Don Gordon, who remembered the meeting exactly as Shearing
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: had described it. They also had a member of the
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: team hiked to the cabin, where they found the initials
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: DS David Shearing and JJ Janet Johnson carved into the
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: wooden logs of the cabin. Today, Shearing is thankfully still
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: serving time in prison.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Now we're fucking rot, I know.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Retired Sergeant east Ham is determined that Shearing remains in prison.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: He believes that he's if he's ever released, that he
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: will kill again.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I hope he fucking rots for life. One percent. I
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: am definitely with east Ham on this.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because that is just it's just too
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: far what he did, Like it's too much.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, I mean killing people like, don't
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: get me wrong, that's that's fucking too far. But then
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: he took this even farther and farther and farther, and
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: holy shit, Yeah, like wow.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: So Shearing, who now goes by his mother's maiden name, Ennis,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: married a lady named Heather in nineteen ninety five. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I really hate to judge Sheer, but who in their
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: right mind would reach out to someone like Sharing to
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: start a relationship with them? Like, I honestly just can't
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: fucking comprehend that.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: And I also don't think that Shearing should have that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: fucking opportunity.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, I don't think so either.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Do Karen and Janet have that opportunity to get married? No,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: So that to me is just beyond fucked. Shearing has
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: applied for parole numerous times since he's been eligible, the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: last time being in twenty twenty one. He told the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: parole panel that he had sexual fantasies, including rape and murder,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: from when he was in his mid teens. He thought
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: that was like a normal thought that men have. The
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: board heard nine emotional victim impact statements demanding the board
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: reject his application. They said he is the exact same
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: monster he was in nineteen eighty two. Also, more than
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand names were collected through change dot org
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: on a petition to ensure Sharing was denied, and that
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: is actually how I found out about this case, I
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: believe because I signed that. Oh really yeah, back in
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. So Sharing apologized to the families.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: He didn't send the petition to me. Could I would
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: have signed that. It would have been like one hundred
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: thousand and one signatures.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: There was, it was one hundred thousand plus. But yeah,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how. I actually get
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: change dot org emails once in a while, so I'm
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: not really sure why. But anyway, I did sign it.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I had a hand and keeping him in prison. I
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: hope his days are overking Ever, no shit. Scheering apologized
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: to the families. He said he better understands their pain
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and how powerful feelings and has powerful feelings of shame
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: and regret. I do apologize to all, especially to the victims,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: for the impact that it has had on them. He
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: added that he has lived with powerful feelings of shame
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: and regret. Story I kind of already said that. The
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: board was told that Shearing had been attending sex offender
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: programs and worked in the prison chapel but ultimately they
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: rejected his application, saying Shearing still has deviant sexual fantasies, stating,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: when we look at your assessed risk, together with your
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: diagnosis of sexual sadism, which largely remains unchanged, the most
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: appropriate place for you to make gains is in the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: safety and security of the institution, and we can only
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: hope that he remains there until the day he dies. Really, wow,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and that's the case.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I can't believe he just sits here and thinks that, oh,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: you know, aren't these fucking fantasies just normal for a dude?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Excuse me, Yeah, it's normal for no one I know.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: To even think that that is remotely normal is just
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: beyond me.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: What is normal? And I will say this, What is
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: normal is having fantasies, is having desires. And I don't
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: care and I do not judge to the extent of
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: those fantasies and desires. You can fantasize, but whatever the
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: fuck you want, it's when you put it into action.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: There's fucking lines like if there's people out there who
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: they are genuinely attracted to children, fucking sickens me and
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: my stomach. But that's that's how they're born. Yeah, the
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: moment they take that into the real world not fucking cool.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: It's not well, I know, I don't know if you
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: almost think like is there a way to get help?
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: But can you actually for lack of better words here
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: that I don't know, but.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, there's there's people out there with fantasies of
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: all sorts, and like the extreme one is like with
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: with children. The fuck that, just give me the creeps,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: just talk about that. But there's there's people out there
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: with dominate dominance fantasies. We'll take that one because it's
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: a little bit more common. So they want to be dominated, okay,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: fantastic or the person wants to dominate someone. We'll take
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: that one because that might be actually a really good
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: way to use it. So, if you fantasize about dominating
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: a person, you need to have things like a safe word,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: You need to have consent with your partner and understanding
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: the limitations. As soon as you go past those limitations,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: as as soon as you don't respect the safe word,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: it's not okay anymore. No, And so fantasies and how
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: far you take it, there's going to be a line.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: So fantasies no matter what, in my opinion, you fantasize.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: But whatever the fuck you want to fantasize, keep that
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: in your fucking head to yourself. Don't make that someone
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: else's problem.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to showed out the book I read again.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: It was titled The Seventh Shadow by Michael Eastham with
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Ian McLeod and he said that he wrote this book
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: so we don't forget, which I think is super good.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I also have a couple talking points, so it's just
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: like things that didn't really fit into the case. This
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: is sort of a new thing. I don't know why.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I'm like bullets here, just talking points. So anyway, if
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: you want to stay around for that, let's let's do it.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Some of them are just tidbits. Some of them are
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: are talking points.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: So what's the difference between a talking point and a tidbit?
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: A tidbit is probably something that you're not going to
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: really want to respond too much like this.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I thought a tidbit was what you get at Tim
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Horton's Sorry, oh sorry, my phone was ringing.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Not bad, okay, so this is a tidbit. The charred
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: remains of all six victims apparently fit inside one baby
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: sized casket.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, which is horrible. That is horrifying.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, I also wanted to talk about the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: impacts of parole hearings on victims, Okay, because this is
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: something that I just think is brutal. It's just so
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: brutal that they're victims, They've had to endure so much,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: and then just literally it just gets fucking repeatedly brought up.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, I get that people can be rehabilitated
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: and stuff at times, but I do think that not
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: everyone can, and I think bringing victims through that is horrible.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: It's just horrible. It prolongs what they went through and
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: they're healing it. Every time it comes up. It's like
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: opening up new wounds and stuff, and I just think
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: that I just don't think it's okay.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Well, there's there's this literally reminded me of this old
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: song by Randy Travis, digging Up Bones, and the whole
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: thing is about how he and his wife separated and
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: he's going through things in the house. He's digging up
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: these memories, he's reliving these things, and that's exactly what
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: fucking happens when I mean, someone's coming up for parole.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Now you have to go to a fucking parole hearing.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: You are literally, as Andy Travis putt it, digging out
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: these fucking bones and you're you're having to refucking live
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: it all.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this and I meant to look it up. But
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: they during this this time period the family had also
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the parole like time spans in between got changed, and
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: I think it was because of this case, because they
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: were like, you know, it's not fair that this is
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: brought up, like however so often, right, it's just yeah, at.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Least minimize that. Yeah, it's a breathing.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Room something that I want. I wasn't sure if you realized.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: But were you not surprised that it was a second
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: degree murder charge?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Actually I kind of was.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: I was.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna say anything because he got the twenty
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: five years for a second degree, But yes, I was
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: actually kind of surprised with that.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the whole time I was like, what the fuck?
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Like he he literally came back like he planned this.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he went there, watched them for a while, left,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: got his gun, came forth. Yeah, waited for his moment,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Like that's that's premeditating totally.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: They technically couldn't prove that sharing had been at the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: campsite the night before he committed the murders, and that
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: is why the charge was second degree. Wouldn't but he
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: kind of admitted. He admitted it, So that's kind of
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: like the fuck.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: But I mean, you still need proof of it, and
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I think for me, the proof of it would have
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: been and I mean this could be different in court,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: of course. For me, the proof is even if he
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: didn't go there the first time, say, the first time
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: that he went to the campsite was when he had
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: his gun in hand, he still walked the distance from
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: his place to the campsite with that gun in hand. Yeah,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: what was the intent of that gun. It's a twenty
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: two caliber. It's not for protection against a fucking bear.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I can tell you that because that's not taken down
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: a bear. So what's the intent of carrying a twenty
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: two caliber gun?
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Well, then even when he arrived there the night of,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: he waited forty five minutes exactly to make to make
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: sure like the.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Girls, girls were exactly He's premeditation doesn't need a day prior.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Premeditation could be five fucking minutes. Yeah, stood there with
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: his gun, watching like you say, for forty five minutes.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: As I said, he made the walk prior to that.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Just round it up and say an hour and a half.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: That's an hour and a half premeditation. Yeah, and then
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: sneaking through the campsite.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: So I mean I was kind of upset when I
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: had seen that, but then the fact that he had
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: gotten you know, the maximum anyway, Yeah, because like he
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: would have gotten that if he was first agree anyway
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: or so, how.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: About this with the girls, Hey, turn around while I
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: take a leak.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I know he knew that he wasn't going to keeping
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: those girls alive.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: That's classic of mice and men. You know, look at
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the rabbits. He premeditated that. That's exactly what he fucking did.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Turn around, so I can shoot you in the head.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: That is pre meditation.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: I know. Oh gosh, this You can't think of about
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: what those girls went through too intently because it will
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: just like destroy it.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Oh I'm making a point to try not fucking think
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Hum. Okay, two more things. So the adults, the four
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: and this is just like I don't even know I'm
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: bringing them up. Sorry, I apologize, But the four adults
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: remained in the back seat of the Johnson's car until
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: he killed those girls, right, and then he put those
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: girls in there and then drove that car up there,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: so they were like decomposing in there for like a week.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Wow. I didn't think about that, which is just gross. Yeah,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: and those like damn near desecration of their fucking remains honestly.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But like I mean for him to even go
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: in that vehicle and then drive it like that, I mean, God,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: this guy is.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Just I would have needed a lot of fabriz, a
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: lot of fabris to drive.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but clearly we know that he doesn't have all
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: his ducks in a row here. No. No, that's to
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: put it real nicely.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: He ain't got no ducks.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: There's zero ducks, no, okay. And this one just like
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: reading east Ham's story and it's from like a you know,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: an investigator's perspective and stuff. But they just put so
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: much time and so much energy and investing cases just
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: consumes their life, right for upwards of two years or whatever,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: and it's just bizarre to me, Like, I don't even
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: know how you would go about it that. Okay, this
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: you know, they got the outcome of this that they
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: wanted where sharing you know, is in prison for extended
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: period of time, but then just to go and move
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: on to your next case. Yeah, they don't even know
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: how you would do that. I feel like those people
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: are in a way like kind of superheroes in a sense.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: How do you do that?
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is only like a fraction of it,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: and I'm talking like a fraction of a fucking fraction,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: like point zero one percent of that. But I mean
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: we in a sense kind of do that with this case.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: We research cases each week, right, and you kind of
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: got to move on to the next case, and lots
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: of time we force ourselves to almost forget the last
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: ones we can research the other one. Now, mind you.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Like I said, that's a small fraction of the reality
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: of what they're doing because they spend years the actual emotions,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: the face to face seeing, yes, experiencing all of it.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: But I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: And what he's doing is ensuring that he's bringing justice
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: to his people. So I think he's putting, putting what
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: he has to do aside so.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: He can I know, But it was just almost I
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: was wondering, do they get you know, time off in
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: between or is it like, okay, next day, here's your
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: next fucking case.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's things like stress leave and all that
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Because you would have to decompress to some extent before
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: he moved on.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I think way well, and there's there's vices to help
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: people through, Like think of like old detective films and
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. The detective is always at his desk
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: with like pouring a glass of whiskey and like he's
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: like all stressed and ship and he's doing what he
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: can to move on and get this case salved. And yeah,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: you know, so I have a feeling that at least
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: somewhat comes from reality. Yeah, think of PTSD and you
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: know sort of stuff.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Right, I know our CMP, you know, gosh, what they
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: have to experience and go through, I cannot be easy.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: No, definitely not.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: So I close my laptop because we're done. But now
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: we don't have our little graphic monitors. Sorry about that, good.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Job, but that was that was well done. Good job.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: As as you mentioned last time, the book that you
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: read is going to be going into give away thing
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: that we're doing soon, So if you want to be
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: kept up to date on that you can check o
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Patreon link is down below. You can sign up not
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: only get a heads up on that, but you can
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: support the show. And you can just support by you know,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: giving us a review, listening, doing what you're doing right now.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: So thank you very much. We appreciate you, guys.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: We do appreciate you guys big time.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: It's a good job in the case.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm kind of glad because that was
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: very consuming for for two weeks, you know. Yeah, so
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to i don't know, soaken some sun maybe, yeah,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: good idea. So until next time, Hey, until next time,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: stay wicked.