Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 243 ~ Whatever Happened To...??

Transcript

Ep. 243 ~ Whatever Happened To...?? · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:00
M. If you remember, like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, they actually
0:09
devoted their show what was it called the lines of Fletcher Fletcher Party, What
0:14
right show? Yeah? What an embarrassment. I mean those m everything is
0:23
going to hell down here, inductive god bade, oh God, oh God,
1:00
yeah, oh yeah, what's up everybody? It's me, It's me
1:25
the Triple B. In this episode two hundred and forty three, Baby,
1:30
we are rahming today and Ramen and Ramen they were going to get into something
1:44
we'll call whatever happened to that? M hmmm, And we'll get into a
1:52
lot of witness testimony today and see exactly what they said and when they said
2:00
M. Trust me, it'll be interesting. Fo shizzy. But before we
2:07
get into it, let us hear a word from our delicious hot saucing partners,
2:15
Silk City. Baby, talk to me, bake bad vibe here with
2:19
you for Silk City Hot Sauces White silk City because this hot sauce comes to
2:25
you directly from Patterson, New Jersey, also known as Silk City. These
2:30
hot sauces are one hundred percent natural, gluten free, vegan, contain no
2:35
chemicals, fillers, dyes or jump everything is packed into recyclable glass containers because
2:42
glass doesn't leach weird flavors into the product. All other Hot sauces are sourced
2:46
in small batches from locally bought fresh peppers. It's all about the pepper people
2:53
telling you your boy, big bad Bob loves his food like you love as
3:00
women. Not spicy but not so hot you can't eat them. So if
3:07
you love yourself some sauce and you're tired of trying to transform your bland meat
3:15
into something edible with a tip of a jar, you will transform your life
3:22
forever. Whatever to Silk City Hot Sauce dot com place and order, and
3:30
upon checkout, enter the code unman as n U N M A N for
3:35
twenty percent off of your entire order. You won't regret it. Thank me
3:39
later. Pace. That's right, Go get your song and U. A
3:51
special sale summer sale is going on right now. Head over to Silk City
3:57
Hot Sauce. You can get thirteen bottles of Hot sauce for half off for
4:04
the low, low, low, low low price of sixty five dollars for
4:10
thirteen bottles. You cannot beat that deal. So if you've been waiting,
4:15
now is your chance. To strike, you will be good to go at
4:20
least for six months thirteen bottles. I would think that would last year,
4:26
probably six months or so. So head over to Silk City Hot Sauce dot
4:30
com and obtain yours today. Make sure to put in the code gunman.
4:35
I don't know if you're gonna get an extra twenty percent off of that deal,
4:39
but if you do, even better. So from the whatever happened to
4:47
that file, I came across something byeline May nineteen ninety. Hey, so
5:00
this was math in my head here thirty three years ago. And this comes
5:09
from the Conflict, which was a newsletter sent around called the doorf Report I
5:21
guess sent out to or sent out by a researcher named Robert Dorff. And
5:30
you can buy a single edition of Conflict the Doff Report for a mere three
5:36
dollars and twenty five cents back then, and times that by twelve if you
5:44
like it a year. So apparently mister Dorriff lived in Beverly Hills, California,
5:50
so he was definitely not hurting for money anyway, Let's get right into
5:57
this. JFK new ever then alert Apparently in May of nineteen ninety won the
6:09
eleventh of May, a well known JFK researcher by the name of j Gary
6:14
Shawl and a relative newcomer, Houston private investigator Joe West, staged a JFK
6:19
assassination news conference at the Key Lager Hotel during the annual meeting of the National
6:26
Association of Certified Legal Investigators held in Galvaston, Texas. Shaw is the co
6:34
director of the JFK Assassination Information Center in Dallas and co author of cover Up
6:40
book, which Lamb based it the establishments theory of JFK's murder. Now,
6:46
when you hear those names Shaw Joe West nineteen ninety, first thing that pops
6:54
in my head is, Okay, this is something about Ricky Don White,
7:00
or this is something about James Files Da Da da da. But no,
7:04
it's something totally different, which I was a little amazed by. So let's
7:12
continue. The new information came mostly from an unidentified source. Well, there's
7:18
red flag number one, folks, an unidentified source who provided Shaw and West
7:26
with his direct conversations with persons whom he determined had taken an active role in
7:30
the planning and the murder of President Kennedy. The source said that while incarcerated
7:36
in an Arizona prison, he saved the life of a person he later found
7:41
out was the son of a well known mobster. After his release, he
7:46
was contacted by the mobster and went to work for him as an enforcer,
7:50
i e. A strong arm type and a hitman. This was followed by
7:56
similar employment for the Banano crime family. His work was so respected he was
8:01
retained by quote the Commission, the highest power click in the mafia. In
8:07
the mid seventies, when the possibility of mafia involvement in JFK's murder was being
8:11
discussed, the Commission directed the source to find out who the participants were in
8:18
Kennedy's murder and to interrogate them. This led to John Rosselli and eventually to
8:24
Sam Giancanna and Charles Nicolette, with the latter being an enforcer for Sam Giancanna.
8:37
Brasili had to be tortured before he revealed the involvement of the other two.
8:43
An additional information concerning JFK's assassination. Giancanna allegedly received a million dollars from
8:50
the CIA for his efforts to kill Castro. There came a point in time
8:56
when CIA personnel distraught over the gangster's lack of success with the Castro death plots
9:01
and angry at JFK for a myriad of grievances. Hold their hired murderers that
9:07
they could keep the money for the Castro job if they would just murder the
9:11
president instead, who Several plots were supposed to go forward in nineteen sixty three.
9:22
The first was in Chicago, slated for November second, under the sponsorship
9:26
of sam Gancana. On November eleventh, a group of five Latins and five
9:31
Anglos. It's white people met to discuss additional murder plans at the Senders Club
9:39
in Dallas. Jack Ruby and an unnamed New Orleans businessman part of this homicide
9:46
conference. Their second attempt occurred in Miami on November eighteenth, under the tutelage
9:56
of Santa's Traffic County. It should be remember that a witness quoted Traffic conte
10:01
Is saying that Kennedy would not be reelected in nineteen sixty four because he's going
10:07
to be dead, and that would definitely stop you from being reelected. I
10:13
would think Carlos Marcello allegedly organized an attempt on Kennedy's life in Houston, on
10:20
November twenty first. It has long been alleged that conspirators met at the Helena
10:24
Motel in Houston, and that Jack Ruby was there that day. The source
10:31
had no knowledge about why these attempts failed. West learned from a law enforcement
10:37
source in Houston that the attempt in that city failed because the President's limousine traveled
10:41
in a different lane than it had been anticipated, causing trees to block the
10:48
assassin's line of fire. Of those involved in this attempt were observed running to
10:54
their car carrying rifle cases. The plot Dallas went off with the key assistance
11:01
of Jack Ruby, whom it had now claimed played a much larger role than
11:03
previously suspected. Applies in Chicago and Miami were the subject of considerable discourse in
11:11
the final report of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, but this did not
11:15
include the names of the sponsors listed above. The source went on to say
11:20
that Gancana, Roselli and Nicolette ruby I met on the evening of November twenty
11:26
first at the Cabana Motel in Dallas to engage in last minute discussions on the
11:33
assassination attempt, which succeeded at twelve thirty. The following day, Ruby allegedly
11:39
obtained the guns used to fire at the president from a burglary at a ranch
11:46
located slightly west of Adelene, Texas. This burglary occurred on November thirteenth.
11:54
The gun which fired the headshot that snuffed out the life of the President was
11:58
a thirty five caliber hump type Remington rifle, which was fired by Nicolette from
12:05
a hiding place behind the picket fence located on the grassy knoll. Rosellie told
12:13
the source he patrolled the parking lot while Nicolette did the shooting. Roselli then
12:18
took the rifle and got away in a car. Nicoletteon integrated himself with onlookers
12:24
and eventually made his escape. The other two shooters supposedly fired from buildings located
12:33
behind the President. They were not named, but the source claims to know
12:37
who they were and says they are still alive. Onflict met the source of
12:43
these allegations on two successive days. He is a large man in the twilight
12:48
of his life, very soft spoken, and very deliberate. We discussed an
12:54
entirely different area of the JFK investigation. The source's answers to our questions were
13:00
accurate in certain key details which only someone extremely knowledgeable about these details can answer.
13:07
On that basis, conflict found this man incredible. He was not questioned
13:13
as to his motives for his forthcoming attitude, one which might well earn him
13:16
a resting place with a long list of others who claimed knowledge about the conspiracy
13:20
to murder JFK. It should be pointed out that this source originally wrote to
13:28
Anthony Summers of Conspiracy fame, claiming he could give the author additional information about
13:37
Kennedy's murder. Hanflick learned that Summers passed this lead to Gary Shaw, who
13:43
eventually provided it to Joe West. It should also be pointed out that Gee
13:48
Robert Blakeley, the controversial former Chief Council of the HSCA, postulated the same
13:56
general theory about organized crimes involvement Kennedy's murder. However, he ruled out any
14:03
involvement on the part of the CIA. According to Anthony Summers, Blakey told
14:09
him many years ago he felt confident he could get convictions against individual members of
14:16
organized crime for their role in the Kennedy assassination if the Department of Justice wanted
14:20
to bring them to trial. This was the same dj which allowed over nine
14:26
years to pass before replying to the House Committee's final report on the murders of
14:31
JFK and Martin Luther King. That reply stated that there was no basis for
14:35
continuing the investigation. The Galveston news conference was covered by the Houston affiliate for
14:41
ABC, who said they were pulling with CNN, a Galveston newspaper, the
14:46
Houston Chronicle, and several other papers. Additional details relating to this story will
14:52
appear in the June edition of Conflict the Door for Report. So whatever happened
15:01
to all of that hoop ala, all of that fanfare and hooplae. No,
15:11
it wasn't James Files because he was in jail and Juliet, Illinois,
15:15
not Arizona. And apparently whoever this guy that was in jail in Arizona was
15:24
out and about before the houselor came inty on assassinations. So anymore anybody know
15:35
any more information about that? Because I don't. Once again, it's one
15:41
of those famous Joe West investigations like we get from you know, Chauncey Holt,
15:50
James Files and Ricky Ricky Don White added to the list. Folks.
15:56
All right, let's get into some eyewitnesses. Is all right, Let's take
16:03
a look at this report that I found. And this is a FBI memorandum
16:11
and Special Agent in Charge Dallas from Special Agent Manning Clements, date eleven,
16:18
twenty two sixty three, So this is same day of the assassination. It
16:29
says thus, league the writer being meaning Clements, has reviewed copies of statements
16:37
taken by don't know what this word means, s O in capitals from various
16:49
individuals who either had information or we're in a position to have obtained information.
16:55
They are as follows with a brief description of what they can supposedly offer.
17:02
Jesse James Williams of Irving, Texas related that he and another party went to
17:15
a motel room described as the first motel on the right across from the Houston
17:21
Street Viaduct a day or so ago. The man in the motel older rifle
17:26
and also a pistol in efforts to force the woman in the group to have
17:30
sexual relations. They obtained the license number as Texas CD one three from a
17:38
car supposedly belonging to the person who was attempting this armed rape. Interesting never
17:51
heard that before, never heard anything else about it either before. So interesting.
17:59
Hugh Bets the Junior took pictures at Houston and elm are pertinent events,
18:04
so supposedly kept some pictures. Number three Jim Braden, Los Angeles, California,
18:19
used telephone in Texas Book Depository building and was accosted by Negro elevator operator
18:29
as to his presence in the building. Now, the reason I'm reading all
18:37
these two you is because some of these accounts vary differently from what we have
18:48
established as quote known assassination cannon. Now, it's always been believed that Jim
18:56
Braden was arrested coming out of the Doubt Text building for trying to use the
19:04
telephone name. It says right here in black and white, and this FBI
19:11
report he used a telephone in the school book Depository building. It was accosted
19:18
by a Negro elevator operator as to his presence in the building. Number four
19:27
Julia Anne Mercer saw two men in Greenford truck Texas license plates fuck had wording
19:38
air conditioning on the side. One man took what appeared to be a gun
19:42
case from the truck. This was about eleven thirty am. Philip Hathaway allegedly
19:56
saw a man with a rifle case with a gun in it at about eleven
20:02
fifty am near Maine and Accord. Jane Hill took pictures at the approximate instant
20:10
and saw men running. Man running. Featherstone of Times Harold has some of
20:17
her pictures. Mary Anne Mormony took pictures as shot ring out. Bob Jackson
20:25
Times Harold reporter not interviewed, supposedly saw a rifle and a man who fired
20:30
shots from the window. You would think that that'd be one man that you
20:34
want to interview, and alleged eyewitness to the man and rifle in the sixth
20:40
floor. Lee Bowers saw some strange cars in the area. J. C.
20:48
Price claims he saw connelly hit, heard volley of about five shots and
20:55
saw man running Larry floor. States, made telephone call in school Book Depository
21:07
building and was questioned as a suspect. Again. He's another one that we've
21:12
always heard was arrested in the daw Text Building. This clearly says Texas school
21:19
Book Depository Building. Robert Edwards with Ronald Fisher saw man at window on fifth
21:32
floor of school Book Depository building. Man appeared hiding or lying in an awkward
21:37
position. They heard shots shortly thereafterward. Barbara Rowland and husband Arnold, we're
21:48
in front of the school Book Depository building. A husband called her attention to
21:52
a man in a window with a rifle. She could not see. Husband
21:56
says was second floor from top. Man was at two open adjoining windows.
22:03
Gene Newman heard the shots, saw President slump slump. John Chisholm with wife
22:18
and child, saw the President slump at instant shot fired. Austin Miller heard
22:26
shots, saw President slump. Saw another shot hit the ground beyond the car.
22:33
At S. M. Holland heard shots, saw President slump, heard
22:40
three other shots. Gail Newman with wife Bill wait with wife Billy. I
22:49
think this is because it screwed up. Uh. Gail Newman with husband Bill
22:59
and Ldren heard shots, saw President slump. Royce Skelton heard the shots and
23:07
saw the President hit. He was located northwest of something. I can't read
23:18
it. O. S mcveee was said to have been on the railroad trestle
23:22
in a position to observe, not interviewed. Charles Hester with wife Beatrice,
23:32
heard shots and claimed believe they were from the school Book Topository building Howard Brennan
23:40
reportedly saw a man in the window of Texas Book Depository Building with a rifle
23:44
taking aim. Emmatt Cludson shots never ship amos Ewans claimed saw a man in
23:56
the window of the school Book to Depository building with a gun. So there
24:03
you have it, First Day FBI, November twenty, nineteen sixty three.
24:10
A collection of eyewitness statements. But what's interesting is those two who were supposedly
24:17
arrested in the daotex, we now find out no, no, they came
24:21
out of the school Book Depository building. Folks. Hmm. Interesting. Next
24:30
up, we have a list of witnesses dearly Plaiza witnesses that it is compiled
24:36
by Tom Bethel during the Garrison investigation and this was sent to Richard Burns,
24:42
who was the assistant da Starting off number one, Victory Adams watched the parade
24:52
from the fourth floor window. Thought shots came from the knoll. Danny R.
24:57
Say, thought shot came from the no. Missus Donald Baker standing in
25:03
front of the school Book Depository, thought shots came from the no area.
25:11
Missus Jane Barry standing in front of the TSBD, thought shots came from the
25:15
west of her. Will the Bond took some good pictures of Grassy Noole,
25:22
never yet published. Dick Sprague says good potential witness. She gives no indication
25:27
of shot direction. O. V. Campbell, vice president of the school
25:33
Book Depository. Shots came from the no area. John Chisholm, standing in
25:38
front of the Stemmons Freeway sign says the shots came from behind him. Missus
25:56
Avery Davis thought shots came from the no area. Missus Elsie Dorman took movies
26:03
from the fourth floor window of the Schuchol Book Depository. Thought shots came from
26:07
the area of the records building. Bull Frazier drove Oswald to work, standing
26:15
in front of the Schoolbook Depository, and he thought shots came from the knoll.
26:25
Dorothy Garner fourth floor Schoolbook Depository thought shots came from the knoll. Officer
26:33
Bobby Hargus, motorcyclist to left rear of a limousine was splattered with blood.
26:37
Thought shots came from the knoll. Charles Hester on north side of Elm thoughtshots
26:45
came from immediately behind us. His wife was with him. But there's a
26:56
commentary here. C Sprague. The photos of Hester and his wife looking out
27:04
rear of gazebo. Gene Hill, standing on the south side of Elm,
27:11
heard four to six shots with difference in sounds, thought shooting was from Grassy
27:15
Knoll. School Teacher good witness has Sam Holland has consistently stated shots came from
27:26
the knoll, but his testimony has serious weaknesses. From his position, the
27:33
knoll and the book depository were in a straight line. Probably better to avoid
27:37
him as a witness. Billy Lovelady, standing on the school book depository steps,
27:45
said he thought shots came from the knoll. Has recently moved and has
27:48
been in the hospital. I think Penn Jones has his addressed. Penn says
27:55
he has now changed his story, making it consistent with the warrant commissioned version
27:59
of events. Interesting. Luke Mooney, Deputy sheriff, thought that the shots
28:07
came from the no area and ran in that direction. William and Gail Newman,
28:12
standing on the north side of Elm, thought shots came from behind them.
28:18
Dramatic picture by art Rickerby shows Newman lying on the ground looking back towards
28:22
the picket fence. Arnold Roland saw two men and the sixth floor building or
28:29
the sixth floor the Schoolbok Depository building before the assassination, and thought the shots
28:34
came from the Noah area. Bill Shelley, standing in the Schoolbook Depository entrance,
28:42
thought the shots came from the west. Edgar Leon Smith, standing near
28:49
Elman Houston Corner, thought shots came from the no area. He was a
28:55
police officer in the traffic division. Joe Marshall Smith, police officer in the
29:03
traffic division, thought shots came from the bushes of the overpass. Quote unquote.
29:11
James tag standing by the underpass on Main Street, was hit on cheek
29:15
by a ricochet. Thought shooting was from over at monument to his left.
29:25
Carolyn Walter thought shots came from the school Book Depository, but saw two men
29:33
in the window. Seymour Whitesman, Deputy sheriff, thought shots came from the
29:42
knoll. Ran up the knoll and scale the fence, then ran to the
29:48
school book Depository and found the rifle on the sixth floor. Stephen Wilson on
29:55
the third floor of the school Book Depository thought shots came from stend of billing
30:00
or Colonnade mentioned in Rush to Judgment. FBI tried to get him to change
30:07
his story. Abraham's a product standing on the knoll. Initial statement of Secret
30:17
Service said the shots came from behind him. He later changed his storily story.
30:23
Nearly all the above list of witnesses gave testimony tending to corroborate the shooting
30:29
came from the grassy knoll. To make the case consistent with the concept of
30:33
crossfire, one would possibly need to introduce other witnesses who said the shots came
30:37
from another direction. My suggestion would be the college Josiah Thompson as a witness.
30:45
He is a philosophy professor at Harvardford College in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He
30:49
has done an analysis of the testimony the eyewitnesses which strongly indicates shooting was done
30:55
from at least two directions. A book by him is due out does fall
31:00
Tom Bethel CC, Jim Garrison, District Attorney, and Charles Ward she's assistant
31:07
Digric attorney. And here's some more for you folks. Harry Weatherford. He
31:18
was in the Sheriff's office, so maning Houston, and he thought shots came
31:22
from the no. Jack Weaver photographer, intersection of Maining Houston the no.
31:30
David Wigman, NBC photographer and camera car one. He thought the no Seymour
31:40
White Men. Of course we already mentioned him from then. Robert west was
31:44
a Dallas County surveyor at the Cornerman in Houston. He thought the shots came
31:48
from the know. Karen Westbrook was on North Elm between the Triple Underpass and
31:56
the school Depository with Gloria Calvary, Carolyn Read and Hicks. That she did
32:01
not say Tom Wicker in the White House Press bus no opinion. Lucy Whittaker,
32:13
a stenographer with the McMillan Publishing Company in the school with Depository, was
32:15
standing on the northwest corner of Elam and Houston with Lawrence. He thought shots
32:22
came from the knoll. Bonnie Ray Williams an employee of the school book Depository.
32:27
He was on the fifth floor with Jarman and Norman. He said shots
32:30
came from the school book depository. Gotis Williams, bookkeeping supervisor, was at
32:37
the entrance on the steps so the school book Depository, and he thought shots
32:43
came from the knoll. R. M. Williams was at the corner of
32:50
Main east of Houston. He thought shots came from the knoll. He was
32:53
a Dallas police officer. Linda Willis on the lawn south of Elm, west
33:00
of the intersection. She thought shots came from the knoll. Phil Willis southwest
33:06
corner of Elm and Houston photographer. He thought shots came from the knoll and
33:10
the school book depository. Rosemary Willis, southwest corner of Elm. She thought
33:17
shots came from the knoll. James Willman, Dallas Morning News, No Opinion.
33:25
Steve Wilson, office manager of Alan Bacon Publishing in school book depository.
33:30
He was on the third floor and he thinks shots came from the west end
33:35
of the building. Walter Windborne of the Union Terminal Railroad Company. He was
33:42
on the Triple Underpass and he thought shots came from the knoll. John Wiseman,
33:47
a Dallas sheriff, was in the Sheriff's Officer of Maine in Houston.
33:52
He ran to the knoll. Mary Woodward, a Dallas Morning News writers,
33:59
was on Northend Home near the Stemming sign. She thought shots came from the
34:02
knoll. James Warrell student at the southwest corner of Elm. In Houston in
34:07
front of the school book depository thoughts shots came from the book depository. Ralph
34:19
Yarborough, Senator in the Vice President's car and thought the shots came from the
34:22
school book depository. Rufus young Blood, Secret Service Vice President Carr thought shots
34:29
came from the book depository, and Abraham's the Pruder dress manufacturer north Bergola photographer
34:37
thought shots came from the knoll. So how does this all break down when
34:44
you really break it down? So out of three hundred and twenty six witnesses
34:52
in darly Plasm who were interviewed in some form of fashion by some by,
35:00
whether it be the News, the FBI, the Secret Service, down Leaves,
35:04
or the Sheriff's office, or a combination of any any of the above,
35:09
three hundred and twenty six total witnesses. Out of those three hundred and
35:15
twenty six witnesses they reported shots coming from the school book depository. That number
35:28
was forty six. Forty six out of three hundred and twenty six witnesses who
35:37
reported shots from the Grassy Knoll area numbered ninety named folks, So almost double
35:51
the amount of people who thought shots came from the school book depodatory said they
35:54
came from the knoll. Witnesses who reported shots from the text who who Witnesses
36:06
who reported shots from both the Knowle and the school book Depository, numbered at
36:10
six. Witnesses who reported other accounts, fourteen witnesses who did not know or
36:22
didn't have an opinion, numbered at eighteen. And this is your biggest block
36:32
of it answers coming from this witness pool. Witnesses who were not asked where
36:39
they thought the shots came from, numbered out of three hundred and twenty six.
36:45
One hundred and fifty four of the three hundred and twenty six witnesses were
36:50
not asked at all whether or not or where that they thought the shots came
36:57
from, because obviously, you know that's not very important, especially when you
37:07
already know your guys up on the sixth floor of the school book Depository.
37:14
So yeah, and that little that little list there we'll put together like Craig
37:22
Cone in nineteen nine. Who folks, now, of course we all know
37:30
how unreliable. I wouldn't this testimony can be. I think that's a good
37:36
cross section of what folks believe. I mean, you know, you're in
37:39
the middle of this thing as that's going on, you have to grab some
37:45
kind of a concept where shots are being fired from in your brain at that
37:51
moment, depending on where you're standing, of course, your answer might be
37:54
different due to the echo pattern. Unfortunately, the Daily Plaza was in.
38:05
You know, it's basically this valley of a grassy area surrounded by very tall
38:10
buildings that sound just bounces off of back and forth. So of course,
38:21
the closer you are to the shots north North Houston Mainland Elm, the less
38:30
likely you are to have a clearer picture of where the shots are coming from,
38:34
because you're right in the middle of all these buildings. Now, the
38:39
further you get out away from Houston Street, you know, as you're coming
38:46
down Elm, you're down towards the Triple Underpass, I think these people may
38:52
have gotten a clearer sound profile, less affected by the echoing of these big
39:02
buildings. And of course, you know, when you're talking about many of
39:07
these railroad workers that were on the overpass, you know stated that they thought
39:12
shots came from the null. I don't think one of them said shots came
39:17
from this book depository. So it's very interesting stuff, very interesting to think
39:23
about and under sure. Now, this next document that I'm going to share
39:32
with you is very important to pay a very close attention to. It encompasses
39:40
a lot of details about these school books depository building itself, which is important
39:49
when you're looking into, you know, the overall operation of this building.
39:55
And this report was put together by the Secrets Service of the Treasury Department as
40:06
protective research. Okay, this report covers their interviews from December two to the
40:16
sixth, nineteen sixty three. And this report, this investigation was done by
40:23
special Agents Arthur Blake, William Carter and Elmer Moore. The synopsis, this
40:30
report covers inquiries which were made at the school Book Depository for Love and Elm
40:36
Street, Dallas, Texas. All employees who work in this building and who
40:39
are president work on November twenty second have been interviewed as set forth below and
40:45
written statements taken from those who were able to furnish pertinent information concerning the assassination.
40:53
And then we go to the section details of investigation and went about the
41:00
building itself here first, so the school Book Depository is a privately owned firm
41:07
engaged in the warehousing and shipping of textbooks for various publishers. The books are
41:14
shipped to schools in Texas and surrounding states. The firm presently occupies a building
41:21
at four eleven Elm Street, Dallas, Texas and has occupied the building since
41:25
January of nineteen sixty two. Prior to January nineteen sixty two, the firm
41:34
was located at five oh one Elm Street, the dal Text Building, Dallas,
41:37
Texas. The presently occupied building is leased from mister D. Harold Bird,
41:45
who has owned the building for many years. The officers of this company
41:52
are mister Jack Casson, President, mister ov Campbell Vice President, and mister
41:59
Roy S. Truell, Director and Superintendent of Operations. This firm also furnishes
42:06
office space for seven publishing companies whose books and publications are handled by the Texas
42:10
School Book Depository. These publishers are as follows. Lions and Carnahan Room two
42:19
oh one. That's the second floor, Southwestern Publishing Company Room two oh three.
42:24
That's the second floor, Alan and Bacon Room three oh one, that's
42:30
third floor, the Macmillan Company Room three h two. That's the third floor,
42:37
the American Book Company Room three oh three, third floor, they grow
42:42
a Hill Book Company and their subdivision, the greg Publishing Company Room three oh
42:49
five, that's third floor, and the Scott Floorsman Company Room four oh one
42:55
that is the fourth floor. So there were office of the book companies these
43:02
seven different ones spannings a second, third, and fourth floors, or at
43:09
least parts of them of the school Book Depository. The normal working hours for
43:15
the employees of the school Book Depository are from eight am to four forty five
43:21
pm, with a forty five minute lunch period. The employees of the publishing
43:27
company have various working schedules, but all of them are normally out of the
43:32
building by five PM. Mister Eddie Piper, age fifty five, is employed
43:45
by the school Book Depository as a handyman and janitor. His normal working hours
43:53
are from ten am to six pm, and he usually worked until seven or
43:58
eight pm. Among his duties are to clean the offices and toilets of the
44:02
depository after all the employees have left for the day. He also checks to
44:07
see that all the lights are out and doors are locked before he leaves.
44:13
During the evening hours and usually after Piper leaves the building, two employees of
44:17
the ACME Building and Maintenance Company home to the depository building and they clean the
44:24
offices of the publishing companies and the toilets on the second, third and fourth
44:30
floors. These people usually lead the building around midnight. They are furnished with
44:37
keys to the building and are required to lock the entrance when they leave.
44:44
The building then remains unoccupied for the rest of the night. Now this is
44:50
interesting, folks, because way way back in the day, many many moons
44:54
ago, I did a very interesting show about this act ME. What are
45:02
they called to act ME building and Maintenance company. Um, they're kind of
45:13
sketchy, you know what I mean. And they had keys to the building
45:17
and they were normally there every night until midnight. Now he's the same that
45:27
either in the evening or later a little bit at night. Because apparently this
45:36
other company was there till midnight. Did they always lock the front entrance while
45:43
they're in there on the second, third, and fourth floor cleaning. It's
45:49
hard to say, I mean if it didn't. And hell, anybody could
45:52
have walked in there, went to the back staircase and bypassed all the floors
46:01
when right up to the sixth floor and hit that rifle, threw some shells
46:07
on the floor. Anything is possible, And that's why the secret services covering
46:15
their bases here. If they ACME company, it's not the only company.
46:27
The Smith Detective Agency and Night Watch Service makes periodic checks of the building during
46:35
the nighttime hours to determine whether all doors are locked and all lights are out.
46:45
I mean, it seems like a little bit of overkill to me for
46:49
a book, a textbook warehouse. I mean, why couldn't Eddie Piper,
46:58
if he's cleaning the rest of the building and cleaning all the toilets, why
47:02
couldn't he just clean the second, third, and fourth floor offices space as
47:08
well and those toilets. Why the need to hire this extra company coming and
47:19
do it after Piper leaves, and then you're gonna hire another company to come
47:23
by and make sure that that company locked the door and turned off all the
47:28
lights every night. Hm. I mean I guess, I guess this was
47:36
a thing back then. I'm not sure we're talking about in nineteen sixty three
47:40
here, you know, I don't know when you know, alarms like door
47:49
or window alarms came into effect, but maybe in the time before that,
47:55
you know, people hired these night watch company needs to just go around and
48:00
check on their businesses a couple of times a night, just to make sure
48:04
that nobody's broken in and you know, all the lights are off and everything
48:08
is as it should be. I don't know, it's just weird to me,
48:15
just a little weird. But again, anybody who is surveilling this building
48:20
would see this pattern of events taking place. They would see when Eddie Piper
48:25
leaves and locks the door. They would see when this ACME company comes and
48:30
when they leave, and they would notice when there's other company. The Smith
48:35
Detective Agency would come around and do their periodic checks, and if so inclined,
48:43
I'm just saying, maybe an employee of one of these various agencies could
48:47
be paid handsomely for a key to the depository, a copy of a key
48:57
to the depository, where then they could go in at their leisure and do
49:00
their thing and leave without the possibility of being caught in the building while people
49:07
are actually in it working or cleaning. Very interesting. So, the portions
49:19
of the first, second, third, and fourth floors not occupied by office
49:22
space are used for bookstorage, and the entire fifth, sixth, and seventh
49:30
floors are used for bookstorage. The actual filling of orders and packing of books
49:36
for shipment takes place on the first floor of the building. Okay, so
49:45
let's lay it out for everybody. You know you have this and I had
49:49
it too. Don't feel bad. I had this vague impression that these books
49:54
were scattered all over the building, okay, and that these orders fell have
50:00
an order and they need to fill it. So they are just running all
50:07
over the building, ping ponging back and forth between floors and getting their orders
50:14
together and this this and that. No, no, no, that's not
50:17
how it worked. So basically, on the first floor there would be some
50:27
books like a probably you know, a couple of cases of all the books
50:37
offered, okay, which would make it very easy to you can order.
50:45
You're all on one floor, all right, So you're basically going down your
50:47
checklist. You go here, here, here, here, and you get,
50:52
however many books they need, or many boxes they need of the books
50:57
to get your orders together. And if it so happens that you need more
51:04
books than is on the first floor of this certain group of books, that
51:08
there are more of these books up on the upper floors somewhere in their bulk
51:15
storage places. So when they're filling orders, they're staying on the first floor.
51:22
When they are replenishing the first floor, that is when they go up
51:28
and get other books, more cases of books, and bring down to the
51:31
first floor. So very interesting to know how that worked. So technically Oswald
51:43
or any of the other order fillers you know, like him and Bull Frasier
51:51
and whoever else Givens Jarman what have been mostly working on the first floor,
52:00
and if they were seen on any other floor, that would mean that they
52:04
were replenishing the stock on the first floor, because they had already gone through
52:08
everything that was down there. So when the ideas put forth the oh yeah,
52:16
I saw, I was one on the sixth floor, and you know
52:21
his clipboard is found up there these orders he was supposed to be feeling,
52:28
he wasn't actually filling orders up there. He was basically replenishing the first floor
52:32
stock, so he normally would not have been on these upper floors normally unless
52:44
more stock was needed. During the period of December second through the fifth,
52:50
all persons employed in this building were interviewed, and the results of these interviews
52:52
are set forth as follows. Mister Jack Cason, he is the president of
52:59
the school Boat to Pository, and he stated that to his knowledge, he
53:01
had never seen Oswald. Among mister Cason's duties as public relations and he is
53:07
away from the building much of the time in that capacity. When November twenty
53:12
second, mister Cason left the building at about eleven am to meet some friends
53:16
who are arriving in town to attend his daughter's wedding schedule for November twenty third,
53:21
nineteen sixty three. Therefore, he was not in the building or in
53:24
the area at the time of the assassination and has no knowledge of these events.
53:31
Mister ov Campbell, vice president of the Depository, advised it although he
53:36
does not have the title, he actually acts as more of an office manager,
53:43
takes care of the payroll and does the hiring of office personnel. The
53:47
office of this firm is located on the second floor of the building, and
53:52
the office personnel has very little, if any contact with the warehouse employees.
53:59
Mister Campbell continued that to his knowledge, he had never known Oswald and does
54:04
not recall ever having seen him prior to the time that Oswald's photograph was shown
54:10
on television on the day of the shooting. At the time of the shooting,
54:15
mister Campbell was standing on the steps at the front entrance to the Depository
54:19
building and was unable to furnish any pertinent information concerning the assassination. Mister Campbell
54:28
continued that Oswald had made no previous provisions for disposition of wages due him for
54:34
the week of November eighteenth, nineteen sixty three. The actual amount due after
54:38
deductions was forty three dollars and thirty seven cents, representing four and one half
54:45
days pay from Monday, November eighteenth to noon on November twenty second. All
54:50
of the warehouse employees, including Oswald, were normally paid in cash on a
54:54
twice monthly basis. On October thirty first and on November fifteenth, Oswald was
55:00
paid one hundred and four dollars and forty one cents in cash, representing wages
55:07
less deductions from the periods. On December third, nineteen sixty three, mister
55:13
Campbell wrote a company check number second six zero of five two in the amount
55:19
of forty three dollars and thirty seven cents, payable to Missus Lee Harvey Oswald
55:22
and representing full payment do Oswald for his last week of employment. This check
55:30
was turned over to special Agent William Carter Secret Service for delivery to Missus Marina
55:35
Oswald widow. Mister Campbell also furnished a copy of Oswald's W four form,
55:42
which was executed on October sixteenth, nineteen sixty three. The first day of
55:45
his employment. All right, so, mister ov Campbell. Mister Roy Trully,
55:55
director of the school Book Depository and Superintendent of Operation, has been interviewed
56:01
on several occasions between November twenty sixth and December fourth by this agency. Mister
56:07
Trulli probably had more contact with Oswald than any of the other employees at the
56:12
depository. Mister Trulli stated that Oswald's employment with his firm resulted from the following
56:19
the circumstances on her. About October fourteenth, mister Trulli received a telephone call
56:24
from a woman living in Irving. He had never heard of her prior to
56:28
that time and did not recall her name until newspaper stories subsequent to the shooting
56:32
mentioned names this pain of Irving, and then he recalled that she was the
56:37
woman from whom he had received the above mentioned telephone call. Missus Payne stated
56:44
that she had a young man staying at her home who was unemployed, in
56:46
need of a job, and whose wife was expecting a child a very near
56:51
future. Missus Payne continued that she had a neighbor whose brother, Wesley Frasier,
56:58
worked at the depository, and Frey stated that he thought there might be
57:00
a job open at the depository. Mister Truly stated that he did not need
57:06
a temporary order filler at that time, and he told missus Pain to have
57:09
her friend come down for an interview. Oh, I'm sorry. Truly stated
57:14
that he did need a temporary order filler. On the following day, Lee
57:20
Oswald came to mister Trully's office for an interview, at which time he told
57:22
Truly that he was honorably discharged from the Rain Corps, that he had never
57:28
been arrested or in any difficulty with the police, and that he was badly
57:31
in need of a job. Mister Truly decided to hire Oswald and told him
57:37
to report for work the next day, which was October sixteenth, nineteen sixty
57:42
three, and during the first few hours of his employment, Oswald worked with
57:46
other employees learning the job of order filling, and after that worked by himself.
57:54
Mister Truly added that Oswald was a very quiet person and accomplished his duties
58:00
in a satisfactory manner. Oswald was paid at the rate of a dollar twenty
58:06
five an hour worked a regular day shift from eight am to five forty five
58:10
pm. I think it was supposed to be four or forty five pm,
58:15
five days a week, and had never missed a day's work during the period
58:19
of his employment, which ended at noon on November twenty second, nineteen sixty
58:22
three. Oswald's duties required that he, on occasion visit the warehouse areas of
58:30
all floors in the building, including the sixth floor. Mister Trulli stated that
58:36
about twelve ten on November twenty second, he and mister Ovie Campbell walked out
58:40
of the front entrance to the building and stood at the bottom of the steps
58:45
waiting for the presidential motorcade to pass by. He continued that the President's automobile
58:50
passed his location at about twelve thirty, and a moment later the reach shots
58:54
rang out. Almost immediately, mister Trulli saw a motorcycle patrolman pushing through the
59:00
crowd and heading for the entrance. Truly ran inside the building with the patrolman,
59:06
who asked, where is the stairway. Mister Truly escorted him to the
59:10
rear stairway. As they passed the shaft for the two freight elevators, mister
59:15
Truly pause momentarily and noting that neither of the elevators was available, he directed
59:22
the way up the back stairway. As mister Truly started up the stairway from
59:27
the second to the third floor, he noticed that the patrolman was not with
59:30
him, and at the same time he heard the patrolman say something. Truly
59:35
returned to the second floor and saw the patrolman standing at the doorway leading to
59:38
the lunch room with his pistol drawn and pointed at Oswald, who was then
59:45
just inside the lunchroom near the doorway. The patrolman asked mister Truly if he
59:49
worked in the building, and Truly said yes. Then Truly and the patrolman
59:53
continued up the backstairway to the fifth floor, where they found an elevator and
59:59
rode it up to the seven the floor. They seated up a short stairway
1:00:01
to the door leading out onto the roof of the building, where a quick
1:00:06
examination was made of the rooftop area. They then returned to the seventh floor,
1:00:10
got in the elevator, and proceeded down, stopping briefly at each floor
1:00:15
to make a hurried search. When they arrived back at the first floor,
1:00:19
there were numerous people about, many of them police officers, Shortly thereafter,
1:00:23
mister Trulli noticed that most of the shipping and order room employees were concreated together
1:00:29
in a group, and that Oswald was not among them truly immediately conveyed this
1:00:35
information to one of the police officers. It is Trulli's recollection that at the
1:00:38
time he and the patrolman met Oswald at the lunch room door shortly after the
1:00:44
shooting Oswald, which was dressed in light colored clothing and probably a T shirt.
1:00:51
The above information was incorporated into a statement and executed by mister Trulli.
1:00:55
Additional information about the company obtained from mister Trulli has set forth as follows.
1:01:01
The school Book Depository operates another warehouse located in one nine one seven North Houston
1:01:07
Street, Dallas, Texas, and at the present time, there are three
1:01:10
men employee there, none of whom work at the building located at four eleven
1:01:15
Elm. These men are mister H. S. Aiken, Foreman Edward Fields,
1:01:21
and Frank Hester Old Edward Shields, where's your rider? I dropped him
1:01:30
off fit the building. For folks who have been listening to the show for
1:01:35
a while now, you'll remember that Edward Shields, when interviewed for the HSCA
1:01:39
stated that Frazier showed for work that morning and parked in front of his warehouse
1:01:45
on Houston Street and he would buy himself. Oswald was not in the car
1:01:51
with him, despite a different story pulled by Fuel Frasier. Employment in the
1:02:01
chipping and order of filling section supervised by mister Truley, varies occasionally seasonally.
1:02:07
Sorry the normal number of employees is thirteen or fourteen, but in January of
1:02:14
each year he hires four extra personnel for six weeks to two months, Then
1:02:20
again in June he hires about ten to fifteen extra persons for the summer months,
1:02:23
which is the busiest time for the company. In late August and September,
1:02:29
most of these extra employees are dropped. However, about three to five
1:02:32
the extra employees are kept on during October and then during the months of November
1:02:37
December, employment drops to the normal of about thirteen to fourteen. Oswald was
1:02:44
hired as a temporary employee and probably would have been dropped within the next week
1:02:50
or two after November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. That's interesting, and
1:02:55
I did not know that Oswald would have been ship can a week or two
1:03:05
after the assassination anyway, This question then becomes did Oswald know that? And
1:03:14
what were his plans? What was there going to do about it? I
1:03:17
mean, you got to find another job, right. You just had a
1:03:22
baby. You want to patch things up with Marina, you want to get
1:03:29
her out of Ruth Paine's house. But you're losing your job again. M
1:03:35
hmm, all right. See. Mister Truly also advised at the offices or
1:03:52
the office of his firm usually employees about seventeen persons, and that they sometime
1:03:57
hire an extra one or two people. Excuse me. During the summer months,
1:04:03
employees who work in the shipping in order filling section do not punch a
1:04:08
time card. Mister William Shelley, the senior employee in that section, makes
1:04:12
a visual check of those present and reports to Truly if anyone does not show
1:04:16
up for work. Attendance and employment records had been seized by the FBI and
1:04:23
were not available for examination by us. With regard to the boxes of books
1:04:29
which were stacked in a disorderly fashion near the sixth floor window from which the
1:04:32
shots were fired, mister Truly advised that several of his regular employees were engaged
1:04:40
in laying a new plywood floor on the sixth floor and had temporarily moved these
1:04:45
boxes of books to clear an area in which they were working. So there
1:04:50
you go, Folts, the whole sniper's nest theory just goes right out the
1:04:57
window. That oswall all built this elaborate sniper's nest. No, no,
1:05:03
nay, nay. As I've always said, they were repairing the floor,
1:05:12
replacing the floor on the sixth floor, and to do so you need to
1:05:15
clear floor space, and to do that you need to stack boxes near the
1:05:21
edges of the building. M And right there confirms it. Thank you,
1:05:30
mister truly, Thank you, mister truly truly. Was questioned about the identity
1:05:39
of the first law enforcement officer to reach his building after the shooting, and
1:05:42
he stated it, to his knowledge, the first officer to enter the building
1:05:45
was the motorcycle patrolman whose activities were previously described in this report. Its officer
1:05:51
has been identified as Patroman N. M. L. Baker of the Dallas
1:05:58
Police Department, and a copy of his satement was obtained. He further stated
1:06:01
that no one contacted him regarding security measures prior to the visit of the President
1:06:08
in Dallas. Mister William Shelley, senior employee in the Shipping in Order Filling
1:06:15
Department, was interviewed on December the second, nineteen sixty three by the Secret
1:06:19
Service. He sets as he access foremant of that section, although he does
1:06:27
not have the title. Mister Shelley is thirty seven years of age. He
1:06:31
lives at one twenty six Tatum Avenue. He has been employed by the school
1:06:35
Book Depository building continuously since October of nineteen and forty five. Mister Shelley furnished
1:06:45
the information that Oswald worked directly under his supervision, that he normally spoke to
1:06:53
Oswald three or four times a day concerning in the work, but that he
1:06:57
had never had any social conversation or any negotiation outside of working hours with Oswald.
1:07:02
He continued that Oswald always was always at work on time, never missed
1:07:09
a day's work, and that he learned the operations of his job faster than
1:07:13
any other new employee they had ever hired, and they were going to shoot
1:07:19
candidate course some bitch about a week or two unbeknownst to him. Shelley continued
1:07:28
that Oswald never took part in conversations with the other employees and appeared to want
1:07:32
to be left alone. On the day of the shooting, mister Shelley last
1:07:38
saw Oswald at about eleven fifty AM, at which time Oswald was working at
1:07:44
his normal duties on the first floor. It is mister Shelley's recollection that Oswald
1:07:48
was wearing khaki trousers and a T shirt. The other employees of the shipping
1:07:57
and order filling department were interviewed, and the information obtained from them is set
1:08:03
forth as below. Letty Piper, employed as a janitor and normally works from
1:08:13
ten to seven or eight PM, stated he had never become closely acquainted with
1:08:18
Oswald, although he had occasion to see him many times a day. At
1:08:24
about twelve noon, Piper last saw Oswald on the first floor, and at
1:08:27
that time Oswald said, I'm going up to eat lunch. Piper stated that
1:08:31
he ate lunch on the first floor and was still on that floor at the
1:08:34
time of the shots. That he looked up at the clock and it was
1:08:36
twelve to twenty five PM and Piper did not see Oswald again. Charles Givings
1:08:45
has been employed at this firm for about two months as a general laborer.
1:08:48
He had never had any contact with Oswald other than to say hello. On
1:08:54
November twenty second, Givens, along with other employees working on the six floors
1:08:59
laying the new plow floor. Gibbons, stated that he saw Oswald on the
1:09:02
sixth floor at about quarter to twelve on that date, and that Oswald was
1:09:06
carrying a clipboard that appeared to have some orders on it. Gibbons felt that
1:09:11
Oswald was looking for some books to fill an order, which is his job,
1:09:15
and did not give the matter further thought. Shortly thereafter, Gibbons and
1:09:19
the other employees working on the floor lane project quick for lunch, and they
1:09:24
both they took both elevators down. They were racing the elevators to the first
1:09:30
floor, and Gibbons hurt Oswald call to them to send one of the elevators
1:09:33
back up his Gibbons recollection that Oswald was wearing a brown shirt when he last
1:09:40
saw him. After Givings eight lunch, he left the building and was several
1:09:44
blocks away at the time the shooting took place. He had gone to visit
1:09:47
a friend who was employed at a nearby parking lot. Billy Nolan Lovelady stated
1:09:55
that he had been employed with this firm for about two years as a stockman.
1:09:59
He that he never got to know Oswald, that he was not friendly,
1:10:02
was a wise guy and a loner, and that he loved Lady decided
1:10:06
to let him alone and not try to get friendly with him. The other
1:10:11
employees usually played dominoes during their lunch period after they have eaten, but Oswald
1:10:16
never showed any interest in taking part in the games. On November twenty second,
1:10:21
love Lady said he last saw Oswald at about ten am. Although Lovelady
1:10:27
was in one of the elevators coming down from the sixth floor at about noon
1:10:30
and he heard Oswald asked him to send him one of the elevators back up.
1:10:34
Lovelady was one of the employees working on the floor lane project on the
1:10:39
sixth floor. Danny Arsay has been employed for about three months as a general
1:10:47
laborer. He had never become well acquainted with Oswald. He knew him by
1:10:51
name on November twenty two, nineteen sixty three. He was also part of
1:10:56
the floor lane crew on the sixth floor and last saw Oswald at about quarter
1:11:02
to twelve. So there you have some interesting nuggets from the Secret Service Detective
1:11:18
Research Report. I guess how they could up their game in the future,
1:11:30
what they could possibly learn from mistakes made that day in regards to at least
1:11:40
this building in particular and its occupants and its employees. So, I don't
1:11:47
know, folks, pretty sketchy stuff, some interesting stuff, and I hope
1:11:55
you're learned something today. I know I did for sure. From that's it
1:12:02
gonna be it for today. This is your boy, Big Bad Bob the
1:12:08
Triple B. Follow along on TikTok and Twitter at the lone Gum and seven.
1:12:13
Also on Instagram at the lone gum and seven. Now yeah, I'm
1:12:17
a social media guru. On Facebook, look for the lone gum and Facebook
1:12:25
page, and on YouTube look for the lone gum and Facebook channel or not
1:12:30
the Loangoming Facebook channel the lone gum in podcast channel that might do you a
1:12:36
little better. On YouTube and now enjoy the soothing sounds Shepherd and Fire and
1:12:44
their hit song Conspiracy. It's all about the JFK assassination. Until next time,
1:12:49
folks, it's your boy, Peaces three, the leader of the free
1:13:04
worlds to see to be the window that he was playing chill that everyone who
1:13:20
was dark ground. She's a man don't believe for one that I tell you
1:13:45
the read the lights have to sell you, the bating that to chamtain yet
1:14:00
ain't doing boy waiting? All was so wild, the trumper up and be
1:14:19
gone, the tumple the p I do with song, and may not simple
1:14:28
song. Don't be my one, Me tell you be he lie. Have
1:14:50
to tell you the bigging being that you champain the wayside, wayside situation to
1:15:15
throw my rain from me? He can of him. We got him head
1:15:20
and he fell down and back head of his card. One was on him
1:15:25
head and the candy cried on on down the big Yeah, ain't the way
1:16:01
more? Always? I'm aware always, so I'm get a fatasy list As
1:16:24
to the poem,