Latest / NAACP+ Inside The Industry / Mario Van Peebles: New Jack City, His Father's Legacy & Why Black Stories Must Be Owned

Transcript

Mario Van Peebles: New Jack City, His Father's Legacy & Why Black Stories Must Be Owned · NAACP+ Inside The Industry

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Love what you do. I'm in the business that I love. Be in the business that you love. Two, try to work with folks you love and enjoy. And three, try to say something you love with your work. The modern day colonizer really doesn't put chains on your body anymore. The chains are on your mind. Yep. And the first way to really free your mind is control your own imagery, the imagination of what you can be. What we put out there about who we are goes all over the world. We have the extra thing of not only saying we have a chance to entertain folks, but we have a chance to redefine us globally.
• 0:35
  Speaker B: Today's guest didn't just grow up around Hollywood. He grew up inside it. Mario Van Peeples is the son of Melvin Van Peeples, the filmmaker behind Sweet Sweetback's Badass Song, the movie that cracked open the door for independent black cinema. Mario had his first screen appearance in that film and he was 13 years old, but he didn't coast on the name. He went to Columbia University, studied economics, worked as a budget analyst for New York City, then walked away from all of it to bet on himself as an actor. He studied under Stella Adler. He grinded and it worked. You know him from Heartbreak Ridge, where he won an NAACP Image Award. From New Jack City, which he directed and which opened at Sundance in 1991, grossed nearly $50 million and proved to Hollywood that black films sell. From Posse, the first black western of its era. From Panther, his unflinching look at the rise of the Black Panther party. From Badass, where he wrote, directed, produced, and played his own father on screen, a film Roger Ebert called one of the best of the year. He played Malcolm X and Ali. He directed the Reimagining of Roots. He supervised Wu Tang and American Saga, and he just finished directing Netflix's new hit series Nemesis. He's an actor, a director, a writer and a producer and someone who has spent his entire career telling the stories Hollywood kept trying to talk him out of. Today he sits down with us to talk all about it. I'm your host, Arianna Drummond. Welcome to NACP Inside the Industry. Ladies and gentlemen, we got a legend in the building. Mr. Van Peeples, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us for NACPs inside the industry.
• 2:18
  Speaker A: Thank you for having me here. Let's have some fun.
• 2:20
  Speaker B: I know, I'm excited. I'm excited. So I know you appeared in your first film at 14, wrote, directed and acted in one of the most culturally defining films of the 90s. New Jack City played Malcolm X On screen. And now you're an executive producer on one of the most talked about new shows on television right now. So what are you most excited about in this chapter of your life?
• 2:41
  Speaker A: Trying to sound smart, of course. You know, that's one of the things that I like about being in this business. It's unpredictable. One day you could be on a billboard because everybody loves you. Next day on a milk carton because no one knows where your is.
• 2:57
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 2:58
  Speaker A: You know what I mean? So be ready to ride the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune and misfortune. Or as Kipling said, meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same. So have a sense of humor.
• 3:15
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 3:16
  Speaker A: You know what I mean?
• 3:16
  Speaker B: Good advice.
• 3:18
  Speaker A: Wear your good luck hat, your good luck brim.
• 3:20
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 3:22
  Speaker A: And enjoy the moments that you're here.
• 3:23
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 3:24
  Speaker A: You know, so I think that that's it. I also have just been traveling quite a bit, and I find that for me to put life in my work, I need to live it. I need to get out and see this. And some people are nerd for books, which I dig, but I'm also a nerd for people. So I'll stop people and hear stories and talk to them and get ideas and just get stimulated by life and bring that into the movie that we get to make.
• 3:45
  Speaker B: That's beautiful. Where's the most or one of the most interesting places you've been so far?
• 3:49
  Speaker A: Just recently I went to Lisbon, which I'd never done before, and that was cool. And then I went on the tour. The tour how black folks got into Lisbon and to Portugal. And that's always a trip. Cause it's like meeting cousins that don't sound like you. They look like you go to Brazil. They look like you, but they don't sound like you. But everywhere you go, you see the flavor, the music, the love, the energy that we bring. And so it's kind of like meeting, Meeting family and going, you know, I love that. And in France, too.
• 4:20
  Speaker B: Really?
• 4:20
  Speaker A: So you go. You go to say, hey, brother. So, you know, you learn different languages and we gotta travel. They say if you speak three languages, you're trilingual. Two languages, you're bilingual, and one language, you're American. So I say, get your passport, get out. Especially right now.
• 4:37
  Speaker B: Yes, yes.
• 4:37
  Speaker A: And see the world. It's very important.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: So. So can you speak three languages? What's up?
• 4:42
  Speaker A: Some Spanish.
• 4:43
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:43
  Speaker A: Some French.
• 4:44
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:45
  Speaker A: Some English and a little bit of Ebonics.
• 4:47
  Speaker B: Trilingual.
• 4:48
  Speaker A: Some Ebonics. Too.
• 4:49
  Speaker B: What is Quaterlingual? Okay,
• 4:52
  Speaker A: I love this. But. So what's next is I also got to, I got to work on Raising Canaan, which is such a well written show. Yes. And I'm looking forward to that coming out. And then I got to work with Courtney Kemp, who's the creator of it, along with Sasha Penn is the writer, creator, showrunner. Incredible, brilliant writer.
• 5:17
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 5:18
  Speaker A: And Courtney Kemp then went on to do Nemesis, and her and Tani Moreau felt sorry for my ass, I guess. And they said, yo, let's get that,
• 5:27
  Speaker B: let's get him some stuff.
• 5:28
  Speaker A: Get that negro in here to direct. So they brought me in on. I love that.
• 5:32
  Speaker B: And then speaking of Nemesis, which is top 10 on Netflix right now, you've directed the first two episodes of the, of the series. What drew you to this project specifically? And what does Nemesis represent in terms of where you are as a filmmaker right now?
• 5:47
  Speaker A: Well, I think, you know, that's a good question. And it's interesting because my first film, as you mentioned, my first feature for Warner Brothers was a film called New Jack City. And that's the 35th anniversary of New Jack City is like this year. And so it's interesting, when I worked with Clint Eastwood on Heartbreak Ridge, he said, fat peoples, no one gets to be flavor of the month for 30 years. And yet here I am and, you know, I got to do a film that was. Turned out to be culturally pretty relevant and lasting, became a gangster classic, new Jack City, 35 years ago. And now with Nemesis, you know, number one, number two show coming out. So it's interesting to be then and now. And you know, I look at New Jack where we had, you know, New Jack cops and New Jack gangsters, and Nemesis, where we have a new Jack cop versus a new Jack gangster of sorts. Although it's in la, very different show. And I live in view parks. I live good in the hood, so I can roll out of bed and direct the show, which was also dope because we have shot in la. But I think what it. There's a great saying which is, and the French have a cute way of saying it, which is le plus sachon je les plus la CAS les memme. The more things change, the more they stay the same. And so it's fun to take something that you've played with, a world you've played with, and now remix it and see how you've grown and how the work has evolved. And that's always exciting. I don't want to give too much more away than that. But it's interesting to see how we can improve on things and yet still keep it alive and tasty. Still make something that's entertaining, but maybe something that's also edutaining to make a little entertainment entertaining.
• 7:35
  Speaker B: I like those new words, baby.
• 7:36
  Speaker A: Okay, yeah, some MVP vernacular.
• 7:39
  Speaker B: Okay, look, I'll take it. I'll take it. And I know earlier we talked about your lovely children, but your father, Melvin Van Peeples, was in the entertainment industry as well. A legendary actor, director, writer, journalist. And we've learned that you've come from a family of creatives. Take us back to the beginning. How did you come to realize that you two were meant to be an entertainer?
• 8:02
  Speaker A: I couldn't get any other gigs. No, no, no. I was really lucky, I think, in that my dad once said, maybe if you're blessed, your mother can show you the mountain. And your mother shows you the mountain that gives you that sense of love. You can do it, that you believe in yourself, you have a sense of. And then your father, if you're lucky, can show you how to climb that mountain. And I've had a bit of both. You know, mom took me traveling. She was my stage mom, would run lines with me. She's a terrible actor. She loved to act. She was just so bad. I'd never hired the lady, but she was really good at coaching and she would coach me. And I started acting and professionally when I was 11. And then when I met dad, he was. I called him a paternal fascist, you know, when I started really to. And of course I knew my dad, but I mean, starting to hang out with him more and see what it was like, what a black filmmaker, badass brother had to do back then to be the first black filmmaker in Hollywood and get paid and make it happen. And he was. Van Peebles are no joke. He's sort of Joe Jackson adjacent.
• 9:01
  Speaker B: Oh, Lord have mercy. Oh, my gosh.
• 9:04
  Speaker A: I know that dude.
• 9:05
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 9:06
  Speaker A: And I'm really, you know, user friendly Joe Jackson. So I'm not. I'm not. I'm real cool much. My kids don't even know, you know what I mean? What I had to go through. Oh, my God. So I was able to see early on how my father was able to work with folks of all colors and understand that good friends, good allies come in all flavors, shapes and sizes. Don't leave love on the table. And I was able, with my mom to think that I could do it. And that combination allowed me to get out here, make some mistakes, and then get to a place where I could make Some films that I was like, yeah, we did that one. We did that one. And so it's something I knew early on what I wanted to do. Say it's your karma, you know, karma is. But your dharma is, what are you here to do? And so early on, I was able to find my dharma, my direction, and then work towards that direction. And a big part of it is I love people. I'm a people guy. So to get to come here and talk with you and hang out, I'm not a stay home and press algorithm buttons and nah, nah, man, I want to get there, hang.
• 10:11
  Speaker B: And that's what I really loved about you. Or love about you. Even when I've met you outside of certain settings, you're just so open and friendly to people, which is such an amazing thing to see because not a lot of people are like that. You're just really cool, real chill, and definitely just.
• 10:27
  Speaker A: I think also I like to play. I'm a bit of a clown, and I've had to know how to redirect that at myself. Do you know what I mean? But because I grew up in a family. Plus, you see, my family's so mixed. We got every flavor. We got black, white, straight, gay, brown, yellow, probably some green. We got a couple trumpers. That's crazy. So we gotta love everybody. So when you have a big family like that, that looks like the smorgasbord of humanity, you gotta be ready to love everybody and embrace it. And artistically, when I paint, I paint with all the colors. So if you look at New Jack, who. You mentioned it. You know, my New Jack cops were Russell Wong, who's Asian. Judd Nelson, who I went to school with, who's Jewish. Ice T, who didn't want to play a cop at all, wanted to play the gangster and convince him to play the cop. And then brother Wesley, of course, and you know, so really mixing up. And then the sister who you know is like, rock a bye, baby. So you see the tough ass gangster chick too. So it's fun to play with what we think we are as Americans and then say, ah. But actually we're so much bigger than that and we have more in common with each other than not.
• 11:33
  Speaker B: That's true. That's true. So you've, I mean, speaking of directing, you've directed projects that honored his path, your father's path. Like badass. What did stepping into his shoes as both a son and as a director teach you about the responsibility of storytelling?
• 11:49
  Speaker A: Well, I have wide feet.
• 11:51
  Speaker B: I love that. Oh, my gosh.
• 11:54
  Speaker A: You know what's interesting? When I did Badass, I felt it was almost like psychotherapy on celluloid. Here's a trip. My father, when he tried to direct in Hollywood, he went to the studios and they were like. He had these little films he had made. And he's a lot of confidence, my dad. And he went. And with a name like Melvin Van Peebles, I guess they thought he was Dutch. They didn't think he was a brother from Chicago, especially the south side. So Van Peebles shows up to direct, and they're like, what? We don't need elevator operators? He goes, no, no, I'm here to direct. And I'm telling you, if you don't make movies that black folks want to see, you're going to leave a lot of money on the table. And they said, yeah, we don't need elevator operators telling us how to make movies. So he and my mom and my sister and I picked up and we went to Europe. They thought, you know, let's see what the original colonizers are doing. They had no money, they didn't speak the language. They had no real plan. But they land in Europe. And somehow my father, with a sense of hustle or chutzpah, depending on if you speak a little Yiddish, got away, got learned French and became a journalist in France and wound up interviewing a young brother named Malcolm X. Thirty years later, I'm playing Malcolm X.
• 13:02
  Speaker B: Look at that.
• 13:03
  Speaker A: And Malcolm's daughter, eldest daughter, is working with me to humanize the portrayal of her father. And my two daughters are playing Malcolm's daughters. And I'm on the set and Muhammad Ali comes over to me and he clowns me. He's like, fan peoples, if you were any smarter, boy, I'd enjoy your company. And he said, you know, if you could make a film about Ali, the first overt black power athlete, could you do one about the first black power film director, Melvin Matt Peebles?
• 13:32
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:32
  Speaker A: So I was like. And then Michael Mann, who was directing Ali, said, and if you do, I'll produce it. I go to see my dad. My dad knows I have a big ass. I'm like, oh, here I go. I gotta meet Joe Jackson. I'm like, okay. So I go, meet dad. And Dad's like. I said, dad, check this out. Muhammad Ali brought black power to the ring. Melvin Van Peebles brought black power to the screen. He said, that's a good line. What you trying to say? I said, it's time to do your story. He said, it's time for who to do my what? And he said, listen, if you do my story when I'm dead, I won't know the difference. But if you do it when I'm alive and you eff it up, I am not shy, no matter who you are. So we go back and forth and finally dad says, all right, you played Malcolm. Here's the deal. You play me. Two, you do it independently, the way I did Sweetback. And that way Hollywood will not be making notes on my life because my life was political, radical, sexy, vibrant, all of that. You know what I mean? So you play me and you do it under those conditions. And. And I'll sell you the rights to my book for a dollar. And he did. I made Bad Bad. Look at that. We sold it. And we won all those awards, the best thumbs up award and everything. So it's like, it's been an exceptional life where I realized, wow, my dad gave me my first lines ever in a feature film. And I gave him his last lines ever in a feature film. That circle is pretty wild.
• 14:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. So what are some things that. What do you think are some of the things that you learned from your father that you still carry with you professionally today?
• 15:08
  Speaker A: Okay. Well, a number of things. One, I asked my dad, we were in the desert. I graduated from college. I'd majored in economics at Columbia, which was dry. Son, let me say, there was no better nap than microeconomics. That was a good snooze. But here's the thing. America is built on capitalism and democracy. So you want to know about business and you want to know about the political system. You need to vote and you need to have some business going on or you're not in the game. Okay, So I go with my dad, we go to the desert, and I figure, okay, I'm gonna get in the film business. Now he's gonna, I've been a good son. I've done what he wanted. And, you know, I major. I wanted to major in something else. He said, no, no, you can major in business. So we're out. And I was looking at him and I said, and you could ask him anything. I asked him two big questions. The first question, I said, dad, what? Did it ever make you bitter being a filmmaker? Trying to scramble to get your movies made and get financing is hard enough if you're just a white person, but let alone as a black man. Back in 70s, when he made Sweetback, became the top grossing independent hit and he made it with a new band called Earth Wind and Fire. Okay. So I said, did it ever make you bitter that not only did you have to fight as a filmmaker, you had to fight as a black man being a film? And he said, well, he said, you can face the isms, lookism, sexism, racism, classism at the post office. You could face it in any line in your line of work, so you might as well be in the business you love and then make changes within that business. And he said, and secondly, if you travel, you'll see very quickly that we have a tendency towards global tribalism, that if you. In Mexico, where I was born, they treated my dad fine. My dad's black. My mom's white. They treated him fine. They treated my mom fine. But they were. They were tough on their own Native American indigenous population because the Spanish colonizers did a number on. A brainwashing number on them, too, right? So if you go to. You say you go to China, you'll see the Chinese and Japanese are basically the same color, but they have legendary beef. You know, you see right here in la. Crips versus Bloods. So if we get all. We're all blue. Well, someone's gonna say, well, we're the original blue. You're less original. So we divide up in groups over 100, really, because we're hunter gatherers. You dig it? So we really are biologically wired to get into. Get in groups of 100 and get along. And that's about the size of an independent film group. So he talked about that. He said, if you let any of that stuff make you bitter, then you've lost the fight. Joy is the greatest victory. Be joyous every day. Kick ass. Take it. If someone comes through this door right now and starts shooting at us or doing whatever because they don't like. They're green and they don't like that we're beautiful and brown, okay, we have to take it seriously and deal with it, but we don't have to take it personally. Yeah, right. When you're born in this life, some pain is inevitable. But suffering, that's optional. So that was one thing I learned.
• 18:03
  Speaker B: Gems, baby, gems. We can finish the interview right now. This is done. We're done. No, second thing.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: The second thing. It was a personal question. I said dad, and I don't know what made me ask that question, but I'm glad I did. Said dad, when you die, how do you want to be buried?
• 18:20
  Speaker B: Wait, how were you at the time?
• 18:21
  Speaker A: I was in my 20s. I just graduated college.
• 18:23
  Speaker B: Why were you asking that, man?
• 18:24
  Speaker A: I know, I know. I Asked. But you don't ask me, you know, because I ask questions that I think about. And he said, oh, man, I want you to take me out here to the desert. We were in the Mojave Desert. He said, take me out to the desert, Give me a bottle of my favorite champagne and my favorite sausage, whatever I want, and leave me. Like in the beginning of Sweetback, when Sweetback escapes across the desert, he said, come back in three days. If I'm still alive, put me back in the truck and try again later. I said, man, you gonna have me arrested. Okay.
• 18:54
  Speaker B: No, really.
• 18:55
  Speaker A: And when he passed, we cremated him and we spread his ashes in the desert.
• 19:00
  Speaker B: That is so beautiful.
• 19:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:01
  Speaker B: Oh, you gonna make me cry. Oh, that is really beautiful. That's sweet to have such a father. Sudden Connection is an amazing story, especially when the work that you do directly impact. Are there other entertainers that you maybe admire or look up to right now when you're finding your place in the entertainment industry at all?
• 19:22
  Speaker A: Oh, lots of folks that I look at and where I enjoy being around their energy. Honestly, I enjoy talking to you right now. So that's real. When I'm around Courtney Kemp and Tahni Moreau, they are characters, and they are smart and incisive, and they say some shit. I'll be like, oh, yes. And we agree. We disagree. So it's exciting to be. To see a couple like that.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: Yes, yes.
• 19:48
  Speaker A: You saw them on, you know, so you go. I'm like, y' all have. Should have a show. I'm telling you, that's a show right there. So no doubt. And it's fun to see us win as a couple and be. And be openly different. I mean, you wouldn't put them together, per se, but one of the things that I love is, you know, the three loves in life for me, love what you do. I'm in the business that I love. Be in the business that you love. Two, try to work with folks you love and enjoy, and three, try to say something you love with your work. So I genuinely like Sasha Penn. Like, this dude is a good writer, smart cat. I would genuinely hang out with him. I would. You know, the cast of Raising Canaan, you know, I've grown to know them and see them grow as actors. So it's great when you find that you're making Found Family in. In your work as well. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm always excited by that because inevitably, I like to bet on people, not just bet on projects. And when you're around good People that win more than 50% of the time, that energy's gonna come back, and then you have the collective mind. Cause some of my best ideas as a filmmaker are not my ideas. Wesley thought of stuff on New Jack Ice T thought of this. Or on Posse, Outlaw Posse. Whoopi Goldberg said, oh, why don't I say that? Or my son will say this? And, you know, I could pretend it's my idea later when I talk to you, but I know the truth.
• 21:12
  Speaker B: I love that it's collaborative.
• 21:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. It's a collective mind. And when people know that we're doing this together, there's an excitement and an energy to it that they bring versus just being a dictatorship.
• 21:23
  Speaker B: That's true. 100%. So we've seen the industry. Well, you've seen the industry on both sides. As an actor, as a director, again, writer. So much of your work is socially conscious, which I love, reflecting our cultural history. I think it's important that we continue to celebrate black voices and creators and stories. What are your thoughts on the value and importance of representation in the chair, both on screen and off screen?
• 21:48
  Speaker A: That's a big question, and I'm glad you asked it. So when, obviously, when I started out as a kid, as you said, I was in my dad's film suite back, and I was a kid working on the set, it was a very different climate. There were almost no people of color in any of the main unions, directors, union, and camera people. And so when my dad did Sweetback, part of his goal was to make sure that we're not only represented in front of the camera, but behind the camera. Because one of the truths in Hollywood is that pretty people tend to try to get in front of the camera, and smart people try to get behind the camera. But the addendum to that, as I always say, is that both smart and dumb are forever, and pretty is temporary.
• 22:35
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 22:36
  Speaker A: So you have to keep that in mind. If you take all the pretty too seriously, eventually biology is gonna get your ass. Do you know what I mean? So you have to have fun with it and understand that and know that this is where the party is. This is where the fun is. This is this, this, and that. That's it. So I think that we bring a lot of flavor to anything we do as a people. And that's one of the things about traveling. You see that again, and we can continue to do that in this business. It will morph, it will change. But I think we will always need stories, and we always will need griots. The storytellers to bring those stories to life. Now, one of the conversations I had with my pop and I have with my kids is that the modern day colonizer really doesn't put chains on your body anymore. Rare occasions, but mostly not. The chains are on your mind. Yep. And the first way to really free your mind is control your own imagery, the imagination of what you can be. So if you go, oh, wow, I can be this, I can be that, I can be, you know, you look at a take Black Panther, you know, you could do a movie like Akeelah and the Bee with a wonderful, genius little girl who spells really well. But, you know, not a lot of folks are going to see it per se, but you do Black Panther and you make it something they want to see, not or should see. That little science girl who was the assistant, but she was a badass, but she was in science. And again, the only thing I didn't really like about Black Panther was that I had nothing to do with it. The same way I felt about sinners. It's like, why is my name not.
• 24:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, okay, little something, a little side something.
• 24:20
  Speaker A: But when you go, oh, that's dope. Whereas you can see us. Okay, I don't want to get into negative.
• 24:25
  Speaker B: No, you're fine.
• 24:26
  Speaker A: I don't want to litigate the man. But when people fell in love, when America fell in love with the Huxtables, they fell in love with a professional black family. There were some in our community said, well, that's not realistic. But we are diverse. Of course it's realistic. We know people like that. We know we can be from here to there, that the socioeconomic is very broad and we're not, as they say, a monolithic folk. But all Americans fell in love with the Huxtables during that time. Black kids did better on scores. Their academics went up because they want to be the success they see. So they're like, they start wanting to go to school because that's what they're watching on tv. Right. It's not that difficult to plug it together. And white kids, oh, this is a loving black family. I can laugh at them, but I can also laugh with them aspirationally. What does that mean? That means when the kids 20 years later grow up, they could vote for the Huxtables to be in the White House, which became the Obamas. Yep. Right. Yep. So what we put out there about who we are goes all over the world. And so when we put our work out there, you know, we have the extra thing of not only saying we have a chance to entertain folks, but we have a chance to redefine us globally. And our brothers and sisters all around the world react to it. When I was in Paris, they come up to me and they're like, new Jack City, you know, je vous Nemesis duvoir. So they're like, speaking on Nemesis and what they've seen and on New Jack City. And, you know, it's one thing to be recognized. That's cool. It's another thing to be appreciated.
• 26:11
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 26:13
  Speaker A: And I had an experience with my pop. We were walking in New York one night. It was a magical night. It was a little drizzling rain. We're walking, and we had done an interview together. We sort of. We would spend time sometimes just not talking, just walking arm in arm. And we heard a voice behind us say, brother Van Peebles, I love your work. We didn't know who he was talking to. Yeah. So we turned around, and there's a brother there with silver dreads. Looks a little sort of like an Elvis Mitchell kind of cat. And he had his son with him. And he said, listen, I'm talking to both of y'.
• 26:45
  Speaker B: All.
• 26:45
  Speaker A: He said, I'm a fan, but don't worry, I'm not a groupie. I just want to say this. Sometimes I go to the movies and I'm entertained. That's cool. Sometimes I go to the movies and I learn something. There's been a little evolution of consciousness. That's rare, but that's cool. And sometimes, very rarely, I go to a movie and I come out proud to be a person of color. And with your movies, both your movies, I get all three. That's cool.
• 27:17
  Speaker B: That's a beautiful story.
• 27:19
  Speaker A: We can hit all three. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
• 27:22
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 27:22
  Speaker A: So you can make entertainment that also shows us as complex, that also shows us as diverse, that also shows us as flawed. That's cool. We should be able to be all that. But, like, go to New Jack City. I wanted to be a very clear line that in a gangster film, typically you identify with the gangster. You know, Godfather, you watch two and a half hours of a guy with family values, but he just cuts off a horse's head now and then. But in New Jack City, if I wanted folks to say no to drugs, I wanted also provide role models to say yes to. So, like, I always refer to the Untouchables in that De Niro still had the badass role, but against Kevin Costner, Sean Connery, and Andy Garcia, you had role models to say yes To. And then in the middle of the gangster movie, let the audience also feel for the victim, because then the crime is not victimless. And when it's happening in our community, it is not victimless. People came up to me after New Jack City, said, when Brother Kim said, yo, I didn't want to touch no parts of nobody's drug after I saw that movie. You know what I mean? So you can take a movie that you would say, oh, this is a gangster flick. But inside of that, depending on where you're at, you will get other messages. And it also depends on where you're at when you watch the film, what age you are, where the consciousness is. I think it's the same with Nemesis. I definitely think it's the same with Raising Kanan in that. To me, raising Canaan always felt a little like an opera. And Rock's character is so badass. And I love her patina.
• 28:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, she's incredible.
• 28:57
  Speaker A: Has a weight and just a gravitas there. And the writing is always just enough. Even the filmmaking they allowed, you know, allowed us to do on that is more towards the cinematic and less towards the television stuff.
• 29:13
  Speaker B: So we talked about you just being multifaceted, actor, writer, everything. And above. A lot of people think that when you're in the industry, in the entertainment industry, you have to pick one lane. What do you have to say to people that or what are your thoughts and perspectives on just staying in one lane?
• 29:32
  Speaker A: You know, that's the thing, is that I grew up in an independent filmmaking family. So when you grow up that way, you learn a little better editing and cameras and lighting and interaction and human interaction. So you're not just working with cameras and lights. You're working with people. So at some point, it comes down to your people skills. So. But, you know, here's the thing. What I think is just like, in life, you have to find your voice. And what I mean by that is, what is your style? Right. So my energy, my voice won't work for somebody else. It's like a key that, you know, we all have keys, but they don't all open the same door. Right. So I'm always hesitant to advise people. I can say there's some things that I feel are pretty much givens one, know as much as you can about your craft. Yeah, you know, don't, don't, don't. The fake it to make it thing is okay, but the fake it part better be real short because you. That's the other thing is, like, you know, nothing worse than when you Work with a filmmaker and they don't know what they're doing.
• 30:36
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 30:37
  Speaker A: And they're fronting like they. They do because, you know, the higher the monkey climbs, the more you see his behind do, you know? So you kind of got. No, I got these old isms.
• 30:47
  Speaker B: I love them.
• 30:47
  Speaker A: I love them all. But so, you know, just there were times when I've had to fake it. Like when I had to pretend I knew how to play the guitar. And then. But then I had to go get mad guitar lessons and be hungry enough to deliver on that promise. You can't be then lazy, and then suddenly people are waiting for you to be Hendricks and you can't do anything. So, you know, I found my way, so I'm not mad at that. But then you also have to be good enough with people to make sure you're in, what they call in yoga. Right. Association. If you want to fly planes, be around pilots, you know, you want to direct, be around directors, start to get out and make it, do it yourself. Now, for me, at the time. So I grew up in a filmmaking family where I had access to all the skill sets, if you will. I saw them all as the organic sort of part of filmmaking. I didn't separate them out as, oh, that's me as an actor, that's me as a director. Even when I'm acting and stuff, it's not like I'm gonna have 90 more close ups of Mario or something like that. No, that's what is best for the movie. And my best acting is reacting. So again, I didn't know you'd ask me that question. So I'll set something up while I might be in the frame, but I don't exactly know what I'm gonna do. And that's where I leave room for the magic. Yeah, okay. But in terms of staying in your lane, there's a value to that. I can see that. You know, but for me, I started out as an actor. I penetrated the business as an actor, and I had success as an actor. Then I started directing my own show, Sonny Spoon for NBC. I did Jump Streets with Johnny Depp and that crew. And I did a lot of the work before I got the chance to do New Jack City. Yeah, when I got the chance to do New Jack City, I had worked with Clint Eastwood, so he was. He was already at Warner Brothers, you know, and he. He liked me. And they were like, okay, he likes him. So I was at that. That nice place where you get lucky. Yeah. And my gr. As my grandpop would Say luck is preparation meets opportunity. Was prepared. Boom, I got the opportunity, so now I'm lucky. But then. So I could spread out then as a filmmaker. Right. So I went from acting to directing. Now this is where it gets interesting. As I went from acting to directing as an actor, I was a job seeker. You're looking for a game.
• 33:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:01
  Speaker A: As a director, you are too, but you're partly also creating games. So you go from acting is job seeking to directing, producing, job creating. It's a little different. But what happened was when the other directors, including myself, Spike Singleton, the Hudlins, you know, started to change the way we would be perceived as black stars, suddenly Hollywood could cast Wesley not in New Jack city, but passenger 57 so they can class Denzel with Julia Roberts and Pelican Breed. So suddenly. Or Laurence Fishburne, who had been playing the best friend, like all of us were playing best friends and supporting roles. He could be the guy and other stuff. So I was a part of affecting that change as a filmmaker and yet a part of benefiting from that change as an actor. So now I was getting acting roles like, you know, my Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger. My Schwarzenegger Negro character that I played in Solo. You know, I'm a robot in essence. You know what I mean? So I was getting acting roles that were not written for a brother. Yeah. Which was very interesting. So part of affecting change and then creating it. Had I not spread out and said, I'm gonna do more than one thing. Cause I got many hats, baby.
• 34:13
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 34:14
  Speaker A: Okay. I got a whole lot. I got some snapbacks. I got a whole lot of hats. I got a cowboy hat. Oh, I throw that on too, because I love the West. So I started. But I made sure that I was qualified just as an actor to be in the table. Now I'm qualified just as a director to be at the table. Then I did writing, then I producing. I'm thinking of catering, but my cooking ain't that good.
• 34:37
  Speaker B: So what has been your favorite project? Acting. And then what has your been your favorite project to direct?
• 34:42
  Speaker A: Mm. Well, playing my dad in Badass was, of course, pretty. Pretty exceptional. I don't know many. Too many sons that have gotten to play their dad. That's true. Let alone filmmakers, where it's a real story. That was pretty. That was like psychotherapy on celluloid. And seeing my dad's face and doing it while he was alive.
• 35:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker A: Give me your flowers right now. Yeah. While he was alive to give me some side eye. I can only imagine and to give me that hug and say, man, it was David versus Goliath. Melvin Van Peebles is David. And Hollywood was Goliath. And Melvin made the top grossing independent hit of 1971 in Hollywood, you know, changed the game. Cause after that they, you know, they had a film about a detective and that became Shaft and then Superfly. And so Melvin, Mike P. Was changing the game. And yet in many areas that's not recognized by mainstream Hollywood. Ryan Seacrest has a star on Hollywood Boulevard. That's okay. But Melvin does not. Melvin changed the game. So it's very interesting when you realize that even to this day we gotta advocate for that. We'd be whitewashing stuff. So at a time when they're trying to take take our history books out, the Van Peebles family is putting it on the screen. So when I did Sweet Back with my dad, I mean, but Sweet Back with my dad. But when I did Posse the Western with Pam Grier, Isaac Hayes, you know, Troubleman, Robert Hooks, Spook who sat by the door, Lawrence Cook, and then Big Daddy Kane, Blair Underwood, Sally Richardson, and all those folks became inspired filmmakers too as they see you demystify the process and they're like, van Peebles can do it and he ain't a genius. Let me get in there and figure it out. What is my voice? What do I bring? You know, we need more sisters, we need more Native Americans, we need more brothers. We need all of us. Because it took all of us to make America. We need all of us to really make America great.
• 36:44
  Speaker B: And I mean, you've talked about the success of New Jack City. Did you always expect it to have that type of response that it is today? Like, did you know then that it was gonna be what it is today?
• 36:59
  Speaker A: No, you don't know. You make the best movie you can, the most compelling movie you can, the most kick ass and layered film you can. And then you see where that goes. But I knew there was a collective heat on it. And again, that was a collective heat. That was the producers, that was myself, that was the incredible soundtrack we had liked about the numbers on it was My dad makes sweet back in 1971, top grossing independent hit ever up until that time out grossing Love story and everything else. And his son gets to make new Jack City 20 years later. And as a negative pickup. And then Warner Brothers takes the movie. And that's pretty dope that you have father son filmmakers saying we're going to shape how America sees us, how we see us in it, and, and then, you know, Moving on from there and saying, okay, next, I'm going to the West. And that was. I've had people come up and say, I never saw us represented like that until Posse. You know, of course, they were Buck and the Preacher there in other films before, but that was on a big level. And it's fun to shape the cinematic zeitgeist of who we are. It's been an honor. It's not a burden for me, and I know it's been an honor for my dad and to see. To get to talk to you. I mean, when my dad was doing interviews, we weren't the reporter. We weren't the one giving us a voice. So oftentimes you're not facing a jury of your peers. You're facing more of an antagonistic dynamic. So when you finally get a sister, Ariana's over there going, here's the question, you know, that you can talk for us, by us and to us. And that's a beautiful thing. He didn't have that experience. That's what I wish he could see. Now that we made it, we're here. Look at that.
• 38:52
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 38:52
  Speaker A: There she is.
• 38:53
  Speaker B: I love that. I mean, it dealt with so many major issues back then. Was there ever a time where you thought, like, what was the biggest risk that you think you had to take as a director dealing with all of those issues?
• 39:07
  Speaker A: No New Jack City in particular?
• 39:08
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker A: Well, like I said, you know, that I wanted to make sure that we walked the line, that we didn't just straight up glorify the crack dealer. I knew that that would be a thing, because Wesley's gonna. And again, Wesley wanted to play the cop and Nice T wanted to play the gangster, and we wanted them to switch roles, so I knew that would be a thing. But like I said, to make that audience also connect with the Chris Rock character so that the victim would have a voice. And that when we showed New Jack City kids in the audience, I'm just gonna say it. It's not pg, but here we go. Kids in the audience stood up when Chris Rock was getting addicted to crack and said, just say no, Mother. When you have that. When you have us going, just say no like that. I was like, okay, we've hit it. We've nerve. Do you know what I mean? And everyone in that film who touches crack dies. So here's the thing. It's a. It's a very interesting dynamic because Nino Brown is such a compelling, powerful black male figure. Now, on the flip side, so is Ice T. Yeah, right. And he's bringing all his street credibility to that role. Brother's made a career doing it. I think he. Don't you think he should give me a look, hit me up like an agent? Fee, please, please. But he's made a wonderful living playing that, a version of that character. And so there would be people that would embrace the energy of that role, which is understandable. But to some degree, some of us have inherited the bravado of the Black Power movement. The stance of Malcolm, the stance of the Panthers, the power of that. But we haven't inherited the political ideology to support it.
• 40:58
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 40:59
  Speaker A: And that's where you can get tricked up, because God is in the details. So you can get confused. Malcolm may say, freedom by any means necessary, but if you get confused, you might start saying, ah, just get paid by any means necessary. Now, what you're doing is you're conflating money with freedom. That's very tricky. That's a slippery slope, because now you're embracing economics. Economics don't care about nobody. Crack makes money, but it'll kill you. Fossil fuels make money, but they'll poison you. So when you start just embracing straight up capitalism without a consciousness to it, then what happens is you have to ask yourself, when we buy in the values, the zeitgeist, the belief system of people who would buy and sell us as people, what have we become?
• 41:45
  Speaker B: Say it right? Say it.
• 41:48
  Speaker A: So that was always the thing in my head was like, oh, you've got to make sure that when you see those little bits, like when the proverbial hits the fan and the wedding's being shot up, Nino grabs up that little girl as a bulletproof flak vest. Yeah. And you're like, wow. But when you see. But how does my character treat his daughter when he's walking on the beach? So you can say, you get this father who's handling his business, taking care of his baby, and knows that that's important. And this man who will use you as a flak vest, okay? So you're very clear. You can get with this or you can get with that.
• 42:24
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 42:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. And if you're smart, you go, I want the power of this, but I'm gonna take the power of Nino, But I'm gonna put that through my rap game. I'm taking the power of Scotty, but I'm putting that through my ball game. I'm gonna take my street hustle and bring that to the bedroom. To the boardroom, not the bedroom. Ooh, that was interesting. How did I really get. How Did I really get to the top?
• 42:45
  Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. That is funny.
• 42:48
  Speaker A: Oh, you are to the boardroom. Excuse me. Freudian slip.
• 42:55
  Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. You got me dying. You got me dying. This is funny. I love you.
• 43:01
  Speaker A: You are hilarious. We do clown. Yeah, I've learned to clown myself. Like I said, I love that.
• 43:07
  Speaker B: But speaking of power, I want to pivot a little bit to the power universe. So you won an NAACP Image awards this year or last year? I'm sorry. For outstanding directing in a drama series. Isn't that cool? For raising Kanan. So congratulations. I'm so proud of you. And you've also been direct the latest power Raising Kanan and now Nemesis. So what is it about the creative ecosystem, the power universe and the team behind it that keeps calling you back?
• 43:31
  Speaker A: Oh, that's a great quote. They keep calling me back. We're good together.
• 43:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:38
  Speaker A: You know when you're good together and you go, oh, okay. And I do have. I'm still a boy at heart. And that the. I love a good shoot em up. I love a good western. I love a good gangster flick. You know what I mean? So I'm still. There's a part of me that's like, oh, yo, son, you know who'll be dope. You know what I mean? I don't smoke or anything, but there's a part of me that gets it, you know, like that. And that was fun with, you know, it's fun when you can let those different Marios loose on a project and go, oh, we gonna shoot this, son. We're gonna do this like this, this and this. And then the other part, the other that loves the nutritional value goes. And we're gonn. So that image is not going to be this. And it's a little more complex. And you can't just paint with black and white. You're going to have to get some gray in these characters. And then you have to discern and think. And that's compelling.
• 44:32
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Speaker A: You know, I believe, as they say, if you give a person who's dying of thirst dirty water, they may drink it. But if you give them clean water, they'll know the difference. So if you give them some entertainment that's also sharp, this also got something to say. They go, yeah, that's the. They can. They can get it.
• 44:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. So you've been connected to the entertainment industry for most of your life and you've done it on your own terms, from delivering on screen performances to calling the shots in the director's seat. What are some of the things that you've done to build such a long and sustaining career in the Hollywood. I mean, you've talked about you doing this for decades, and, you know, both acting, directing. What do you think has. Has kept you in this industry and made you sustainable?
• 45:22
  Speaker A: I was gonna say something goofy, but I'm not. I'm. Keep it straight. You know, I think, like I said before, I think to some degree, it's being okay and being good with people.
• 45:34
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 45:35
  Speaker A: Here's the thing. Over the years, right? You're gonna have. You're gonna be hot, you're gonna be cold. You're gonna be hot, you're gonna be cold.
• 45:40
  Speaker B: World.
• 45:41
  Speaker A: Your talent, you keep. And your relationships, if they're good, you keep. When you're cold, when you're hot, if you're a pain in the ass, people will still deal with you, but when you're cold, they won't want to deal with you. So if you're good with people, that's a good start. Being good with people, being able to listen. I always said we like two things about people. We gotta like who they are, but we also have to like who we are when we're with those people. You know what I mean? When you interview me, do we have fun? When I talk to you, do we have fun? Do we go, hey, we had fun? But we also made sense of it. We also got to some real points. We covered some real things that folks need to know about and hear, and not just silly, but just. We really covered it. And so I like that when something is not, when the filmmaker can get into the heart and the essence of what that character's truths are, when the scenes are directed in a way that mirror that character's truth and the energy of that scene, it's not just random movement. You feel it when things are sculpted and the art is good, you can feel the difference between when it just put together as cannon fodder. And so I think that when you care about the work, I guess that's it. Care about the work and care about who you're working with. And like I said, care about what you say. And I think if you do that, you're in a good place. The other thing is keep learning. Stay young enough to be a great student. I'm taking class tonight and getting my butt kicked. I'm taking a Muay Thai class with one of my sons. I am third in my class. From the bottom. From the bottom keeps you humble. You get butt whooped by a valet parker, you know What I mean that. That it keeps you humble. Do you know what I mean? Keeps you like, oh, wow, that brother coming at me, he don't care what your last name is.
• 47:40
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 47:40
  Speaker A: Or how cool your hat game is.
• 47:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
• 47:42
  Speaker A: Do you know what I mean? So stay young enough to be a great student and then stay old enough to be a badass teacher. And if you're teaching and you're learning, man, that. That put that together. So don't just get to a place where you think, I know it all, I have it all together. No, no, no, no, man. Keep learning. And I learn every way. The other thing is, you know, wherever there's people, there's going to be some poo step around it, you know, it's your ability to bring out. No one's going to be 100% or we wouldn't be incarnate on this planet. Right? So no one's going to be 100%. Correct. So maybe there's 20%. This guy is kind of jacked up. He's always late. Make sure you tell him a time that's an hour early, you know, so know how to deal with him. This chick, she's cool, but she's so busy worried about her looks. So make sure you get her plenty of time to do her pictures, whatever it is. So understand who you're dealing with. Bring out the best in others and step around the dumb stuff. There's always gonna be a chance to be invited to the party that you don't wanna be at. Don't do it. Do you know what I mean? There's always dumb stuff to do. And just like high school, Hollywood is like high school with money. And people will come at you, yo, brother, you wanna do no. Oh, no, don't do it. So, you know, I watch movies with my kids sometimes when they're small. I see. I'd pause it and stop and go, now this lead character is about to make a decision. Is this a good move or is this a bad move? And they know, Daddy. Be like, that's not a good move, Daddy. That's right. Think about what you want to do with your life. And if those moves you're making aren't mirroring and getting you there, you're in the wrong place. What you want to do is get to a place. And it's hard to do. I'm still working on it every day. And that is one where the Mario that I am and the Mario I want to be are in the same room. Because the Mario I want to be. He's way cooler than the Mario I really am. Truth. But the other thing is this. The more that you can say my thoughts become my words and my words become my deeds, my actions. And then my actions become my reality. The more your chakra is in align with that. I know it sounds kind of like I had too much weight.
• 49:47
  Speaker B: No, but that's real.
• 49:48
  Speaker A: That's real. Then your word means something. Something. I don't get out there and say I'm going to do this and do that. I try to get out there and do it and commit to it. Yeah. You know, and still I fall off down. Then I make. I'll go. I don't feel like doing it today. But I. But most of the time I get my butt up and I do it. Yeah. And so you, you have to find the ways to trick yourself into success. What you think success is.
• 50:10
  Speaker B: I love that. Beautiful. Beautiful. And we're almost closing out, but I, I want to finish up with a couple more questions and talk about the future of this industry. I mean, you've seen evolved from film to digital to streaming. What excites you most about where directing is headed or where the future of movie making is headed?
• 50:34
  Speaker A: It's. We're in a really. As the. The Chinese proverb said, may you live in interesting times. We really live in interesting times in so many ways. Not just in terms of the entertainment industry, but what. You know, I'm. You were. We're now driving down the street. Street past cars that are self driving. You know what I mean? So jobs we thought would be there tomorrow ain't there.
• 50:58
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 50:59
  Speaker A: We told people go out and learn to code. Guess what coding is.
• 51:02
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 51:04
  Speaker A: You know, so you know, we'd be. I can't say that I know. I don't always know. But I do know this. We crave human contact. And okay. When I was traveling in Lisbon, that's interesting because I went to a couple concerts and people are really going now to concerts because you can, you know, it's not AI, it's not cgi. It's not. They're seeing the real thing. We want to have. We crave that human contact. So I, I hope that, you know, we find ways to use AI as a tool and not have AI use us as a tool. Okay. And so that's going to be interesting. We have to learn it. We don't want to be the last folks fighting with slings and arrows when someone's got muskets and machine guns. You don't want to be making Buggy whips. When someone's invented something called a motor car, you've got to be aware of what's on the horizon. Horizon. You gotta stay current. So that's a big thing. But I think that there's a magic that we have collectively that it would be hard to be replaced by pressing a prompt. Can I give you an example?
• 52:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
• 52:22
  Speaker A: Okay. We talked about New Jack City. There was a scene where, you know, Nino Brown is giving out the turkeys. The turkey giveaway scene.
• 52:32
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 52:32
  Speaker A: And it was based on something that, you know, some of these guys did. Nikki Barnes, Felix Mitchell, Raphael Edmonds did things that ingratiated themselves with the community. And so Nino's going to give the turkeys. And we're supposed to shoot it in a big warehouse, this ornate warehouse. And 15 minutes before we're supposed to shoot it in the warehouse, my producer came over to me and said, got bad news. There was a fire in the warehouse. The fire department's there. They're shutting us down. We can't shoot there. And we're early in the day. I was like, oh, Lord, right? And I said, look, I'm born tonight, but not last night. I grew up with Melvin Van Peebles. And here's what we're going to do do. We're going to shoot it outside. We're going to shoot it right here in Harlem on Lenox Avenue. So go set up the. The. We still have the permit for Lennox for the streets. So go get the tables, the folding tables, and set them up. We'll do it outside. He said, really? I said, yeah, let's do it outside. So he goes, it comes back in five minutes. Like, what night? He said, brother, hate to do this to you, but it's scheduled to rain.
• 53:31
  Speaker B: Oh, Lord.
• 53:33
  Speaker A: And he said. And I thought, oh, man. You know our sisters with their hair. Okay, it's gonna rain. And I thought, oh, man. I said, okay, get our pas. Our production assistants up to 125th Street. We're a couple blocks away by every umbrella in sight. You got the African brothers out there with them umbrellas. Go get every one of them. I don't care what color it is. Bring it back. So we'll play the rain. So now I have to go deal with the actors. Now, luckily, I'm an actor and I know how to speak actor. And I also understand that sometimes some actors start to become the role they're playing. That doesn't mean that if they're playing a gangster, they're necessarily a gangster, but they're starting to play the role. Brother Wesley and some of the other come out and Wesley comes over and you know, he's, he's, he's, he's Wesley and he's such a smart, intuitive cat. Fat peoples. What is this janky crap we doing? We, we supposed to shoot in a warehouse. We, we shooting on the street with folding tables. Oh, my gosh. And I said, brother Wesley, I said, you know, Jesus Christ, sorry, Didn't crown himself pope and sit in the cathedral, okay. And put on fancy robes. He went out in simple clothing amongst the people and met them where they were. Gandhi was an attorney, had three piece suits made in London, but he put on simple homespun material and sandals. And he went out amongst the Hindus and the Muslims because he loved them equally. He went out and touched the people where they were. Nino Brown is a brother, a man of the people. He is not scared to deal with a brother and sister right there on Lenox, on 120 Fee street, wherever they are, he will touch them right there. And he looked at me and said, I said, nino Brown is ready, let's go. And we did it outside.
• 55:17
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 55:18
  Speaker A: And that became an iconic scene. But it was not. If I had just to press a prompt on AI, I would have just said, warehouse, give me be warehouse. Blah, blah, blah. Press the prompt. That's not directing. That's just, you know, technician stuff. Do you know what I mean? But because necessity hit us and chance hit us, we found the magic. And then Judd Nelson and Ice T are doing their bit and Judd Nelson's doing his thing and said, oh, the natives are restless. And I see, like, shut up. So it really works. And then Chris Rock comes and he's improving and the scene works and it's just like, you have to know the material well enough so you're not just doing jazz every time there's a problem, obviously, but you know, the characters in this stuff, the. Well enough. Enough to make it make sense and make it work and become a benefit.
• 56:04
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 56:05
  Speaker A: And there are so many situations like that. Like there was one with Wesley and, and I and Alan Payne on the rooftop scene. I didn't do anything. They had it rehearsed and figured out and I just, I just had the good sense to get out the way and film it. So there's times when the magic happens. And you as a filmmaker, all you got to do, baby, is film it. And there's times when you got to get involved and go, okay, we're going to do this, this and that and the other and shape it. And I think that, that, that's the human element. That's the magical thing that I think we miss if we get too mechanical and too far away from where we are.
• 56:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 56:38
  Speaker A: So does that make sense?
• 56:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, it makes sense. I really, really quick. So for anybody watching this right now, who may want to fall in your footsteps, what piece of advice would you leave them with?
• 56:49
  Speaker A: I. I have a sense of humor. About yourself, find your voice as a human being, I think really ask yourself, why do you want to be in this business? Do you want to be here to make money, to have power, to meet the cutie pies or the cutie guys or whatever? Or do you want to be here to make a difference and tell some great stories? So I think one, know yourself. Yeah. And then after that, what is your way of bringing out the best in others and stepping around the challenges? And each one is going to have a different rhythm and a different energy. You're going to. To bring out different energies with people than I will, you know, and so find yourself and your voice. And then, of course, know as much as you can about your craft. Study it, watch it. You know, when you talk to young filmmakers and they didn't see this movie, they don't know the classics they didn't see. That doesn't mean that that's necessarily bad or good. But it is helpful to understand because creatively, we. We do stand on each other's shoulders sometimes.
• 57:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful. So, last question. You've made such a long lasting impact on black stories, cinema and culture. Fifty years into your family's contribution to this industry. What do you want the generation coming up right now to take from the van people's name? And what unfinished finished business do you feel like this industry still has with the stories that have yet to be told?
• 58:16
  Speaker A: Good question. Well, I could answer like my dad, but you probably have to bleep it out.
• 58:24
  Speaker B: So answer like your daddy. No, I'm just playing.
• 58:27
  Speaker A: My dad would say, remember, make sure that niggas win.
• 58:31
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 58:32
  Speaker A: In front of the camera and behind the camera.
• 58:33
  Speaker B: Yes, I love it.
• 58:34
  Speaker A: Just like they've been winning, we should win. Yes, I would say. And add to that, what we have to do now is understand that the downkeepers, to some degree, are becoming the gatekeepers of our business. They're buying it up. They understand the power of liberating your mind. And so they're trying to control it. And so we have to be vigilant and smart about what we consume and how we Consume it and how we do it. So I would say that. That we have to channel the wisdom of our ancestors.
• 59:13
  Speaker B: I like that.
• 59:13
  Speaker A: And pair that with the modern technology of modern man. So wisdom of our ancestors with the technology of modern man. And what did our ancestors say? Let's see. Dr. King would say, I have a dream. And brother Malcolm would say, and we gonna get that dream by any means necessary. Bob Marley would say, get up and stand up. Stand up for your rights. You know, Shirley Chisholm say, be unbought and unbossed. You know, some of us would say, don't be afraid to get in good trouble. Sometimes you're going to have to get into good trouble. We might be getting to a place where we have to do that. And Melvin Van Peebles would say, keep on keeping on.
• 59:58
  Speaker B: I love that. Beautiful. Thank you so much. So before we wrap, I do have a quick game that I want to play. It's called Inside youe Industry Bag. It's not a bag, but if you could kindly take a prompt out of that cup to your left, pull it out, read it, and then answer.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker A: This is great. I love this. I want to see. Did you write these jokers up?
• 1:00:20
  Speaker B: I did, but they're.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker A: Oh, you did? Okay, cool.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker B: They're just. Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker A: I feel like it's nothing crazy looking at the fortune cookie.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker B: Methodical.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay, okay.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker B: And you can pull a different one if you want.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker A: Mario, will you take me to dinner? I got you. Oh, hey. Of course. Oh, my goodness. We going to Mickey D's. Okay. Solid. A hill you'll die on in this industry. Oh, that's pretty easy. Because of the kind of person I am. I'm not super materialistic, so I don't measure my sense of self by how many followers I have or how much money I have or. There's a line in life. On one side of the line is doing things that you want to do. On the other side is owning things that you want. So the more you're in the own column, the less you're going to have time to do stuff you want to do. So you're going to try to get that fly car. At some point, it's going to become an old car. So I find that the more that I'm a doer, I want to travel and see things, and I don't want to be. If you own too much at a certain point, owns you. So I'm very simple that way. That allows me the freedom to say no to a lot of projects, not just say what you say yes to. But what you say say no to. So a hill that I would die on is that I'm not going to make films that I don't believe in.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker B: That's real.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker A: Not going to happen.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker B: I love that. Well, Mario, thank you so much for joining us today. I really like, honestly, this has been such an amazing conversation. I laughed, I got some insight. You dropped some gems. This was incredible. So thank you so much.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker A: It's good hanging out with you.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker B: No, it was.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker A: And thank you for putting up with me.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker B: You have me dying the entire time. So thank you. I really appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. No matter where you are in your journey, we're here to be a resource. If this conversation sparks something special for you, make sure to like subscribe and share and drop a comment letting us know what conversations you'd like to see next. I'm your host, Arianna Drummond. See you inside the industry.