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The Newsboys Singer Who Stopped Singing for 30 Years · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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  Speaker 2: Hey John, thanks for joining me.
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  Speaker 3: Good I mate. How are you doing well? John?
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  Speaker 2: James Forer, singer for the Newsboys, who has a new book,
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Newsboy My Story of Hope and Second Chances, also has
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  Speaker 2: a new album as well. You were with the band
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  Speaker 2: the first sixteen years with the Newsboys. Your website is
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  Speaker 2: I Reach USA dot com. For those who want to
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  Speaker 2: check you out, John, your story is so inspirational. I've
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  Speaker 2: enjoyed learning about it. Of course, I'll listen to your
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  Speaker 2: music back in the day and listening to the music again.
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  Speaker 2: I'm enjoying that for readers who may not know your story,
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  Speaker 2: or for listeners who may not know your story. What
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  Speaker 2: inspired you to write this book and why did you
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  Speaker 2: want to tell everybody about your past?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's actually being quite a wall coming. And at
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  Speaker 3: the same time, it wasn't an onmoy radar at all.
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  Speaker 3: Several years ago, some folks were at an event We're
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  Speaker 3: always speaking and one of the individuals was with a
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  Speaker 3: publishing company, broad Street Publishing, and and they heard my
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  Speaker 3: testimony and were really impacted with it, and they felt, man,
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  Speaker 3: this needs to be a book and people need to
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  Speaker 3: hear about this. And several years ago. It started the
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  Speaker 3: journey of the relationship with me with the publisher, and
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  Speaker 3: it's been a while and it's making and then we
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  Speaker 3: just released it June second this year. You know, a
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  Speaker 3: couple of years ago, mate, if you said to me
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  Speaker 3: I'd be writing a book and stuff, I would have
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  Speaker 3: laughed and said krike and never had a million years. Man,
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  Speaker 3: it's just amazing. So's the book was the most therapeutic,
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  Speaker 3: but the most liberating, but the most amazing time of
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  Speaker 3: intimacy and worship with the Lord for me writing it.
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  Speaker 3: It was a pretty incredible experience.
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  Speaker 4: Bru.
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  Speaker 2: Those who don't know your story, you baud old addiction
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  Speaker 2: while a member of the band, give us a just
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  Speaker 2: a brief overview of your testimony.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually have to correct that because I think
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  Speaker 3: we've been talking before the interview started. How the Internet
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  Speaker 3: has a nature of its own. So was I battling addictions? Well,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: addictions come in many form in regards to being a
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  Speaker 3: drug addict. Was I a drug addict during the band
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  Speaker 3: time of the Newsboys and not? I never was. My
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  Speaker 3: addiction really started in regards to substance when my career
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  Speaker 3: fell apart and the alcohol really exploded. Now was I
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  Speaker 3: drinking probably way too much when I was with the Newsboys, Absolutely,
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  Speaker 3: But in regards to drug use, and I've been flearing
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  Speaker 3: that up for a while, but you know, sometimes things
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  Speaker 3: can happen and take on the nature on the internet.
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  Speaker 3: But the addiction side really evolved and exploded with the
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  Speaker 3: pain that I was self medicating with when my career
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  Speaker 3: fell apart. But you know it's funny, mate, when you
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  Speaker 3: talk about addiction, people stereotyped to you know, substance abuse.
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  Speaker 3: But as you and I and a mate, addictions can
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  Speaker 3: come in many form. You can you can be an
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  Speaker 3: addict in regards to suicide, you know, the self harm.
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  Speaker 3: You can have an addiction with pawn. You can have
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  Speaker 3: an addiction with unforgiveness and biddenness and resentment. So an
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  Speaker 3: addiction something that consumes you with a dysfunctional outcome and habit,
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  Speaker 3: like I said, made, it comes in many shapes and form.
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  Speaker 3: And so at the heights of success, gaining the band,
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  Speaker 3: gaining the world, go figure, mate, my life and my
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  Speaker 3: marriage and everything came crumbling down. But you know, as
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  Speaker 3: the interview goes on, maybe I could share more. I
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  Speaker 3: didn't wake up one day at the hides of success
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  Speaker 3: and my big, beautiful home in Nashville and at the
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  Speaker 3: heights of success as one of the biggest Christian bands
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  Speaker 3: in the world. I never said, right, what's on the
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  Speaker 3: agenda today? What am I going to do this month?
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  Speaker 3: Find out I'm going to destroy my ministry and my marriage,
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  Speaker 3: my family, everything. It never happens like that. Made it
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  Speaker 3: was this so slow, desensitizing erosion of the real foundations
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  Speaker 3: that I'm meant to keep strong, and I succumb to that,
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  Speaker 3: and in the end made we mean that my house
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  Speaker 3: of cards come crashing down.
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  Speaker 2: For those who don't know which songs you report of,
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  Speaker 2: because then you boys have so many songs over the decades,
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  Speaker 2: and we kind of forget.
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  Speaker 3: Shane Shane. You Yeah, I was a part of the
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  Speaker 3: era with the songs. The first hit the Newsboys really
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  Speaker 3: ever had was this classic song called not Ashamed. There
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  Speaker 3: were songs like Shine, take Me to Your Leader, Breakfast Reality.
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  Speaker 3: I joke me, humbly, jokingly say I was a part
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  Speaker 3: of the band when we had the cool songs. And
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  Speaker 3: but it's funny, you don't realize you have thirty five
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  Speaker 3: years the band had gone for There were three eras
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  Speaker 3: of different singers you know, there's people who followed the
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  Speaker 3: Newsboys that totally missed my era, didn't even know who
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  Speaker 3: No you were. You weren't ever with the Newsboys. And
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  Speaker 3: then there was Peter Ferler's era, and then after his
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  Speaker 3: era it is Mike Tait. So you've had really free
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  Speaker 3: distinct eras with the band. Stylistically, mission wise was so
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  Speaker 3: dynamically different.
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  Speaker 2: I was looking at that this morning. I typed en
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  Speaker 2: Shine Newsboys music video on YouTube and there you are.
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  Speaker 2: There you were in the music video, so people people
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  Speaker 2: can see your face. And a lot of these music
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  Speaker 2: videos that were recorded back at the really creative too
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  Speaker 2: for the time. I mean, yeah, really, I think I
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  Speaker 2: think that would survive today's creativity shout challenges.
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  Speaker 3: Really, if you listen to a song, one of our
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  Speaker 3: greatest hits was the song take Me to Your Leader,
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  Speaker 3: and that when you look at the video clip of
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  Speaker 3: take Me to Your Leader, man, it was way ahead
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  Speaker 3: of its time. And really and you know the combination
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  Speaker 3: of the newsboys cheesy quirkiness with the lyrical genius of
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  Speaker 3: Steve Taylor Man, there was a chemistry that happened for
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  Speaker 3: several albums that was just really worked. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: the craziness of the Newsboys, but the quirkiness of Steve
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  Speaker 3: Taylor's genius that really made an incredible marriage with the
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  Speaker 3: songs and the songwriting and the lyrical content. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I look back now, maybe I remember there was one
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  Speaker 3: song where we used to see take Me to Your Leader.
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  Speaker 3: You know, the opening line on that, I'm came up
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  Speaker 3: with this. You know, Isabel Bally dance with a klepto
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  Speaker 3: maniacs restraint, and you know you're trant to seeing that
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  Speaker 3: when you're running around out of breath. But the lyrical
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  Speaker 3: genius of Steve Taylor was just absolutely awesome, with the
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  Speaker 3: band's desire to write lyrics that made people fee, that
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  Speaker 3: were fun, that were crazy, but connected with a generation
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  Speaker 3: that maybe wasn't in that typical I listened to church
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  Speaker 3: music worship because the whole generation out there that doesn't
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  Speaker 3: listen to CCM or even today, doesn't listen to Elevation
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  Speaker 3: or Bethel or Hillsong worship, that doesn't even know it
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  Speaker 3: exists or listens to it mate. So you know, it's
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  Speaker 3: amazing how music has a bowl of the Christian music industry.
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  Speaker 3: But if you were a part of that thera back then,
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  Speaker 3: it was such a different universe.
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  Speaker 2: Mate, was it difficult to revisit these dark chapters of
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  Speaker 2: your life? And what was it like to write about Over.
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  Speaker 3: The months that I wrote, I got to be honest
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  Speaker 3: with the listener of the viewer. It was the most
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  Speaker 3: surreal experience. And there were days in writing where you know,
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  Speaker 3: my wife had come into my office and I'm just underground,
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  Speaker 3: ball of my eyes out. I think it was liberating,
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  Speaker 3: it was healing, and the journey was Lord, you know,
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  Speaker 3: I'm getting a bit older now, I'm sixty two and
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  Speaker 3: authentically with integrity remembering the facts because you know, as
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  Speaker 3: time goes by, the facts can become blurred, or you know,
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  Speaker 3: you have a different perspective of the facts and maybe
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  Speaker 3: what other people do. So my real heart was, Lord,
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  Speaker 3: give me the ability to honestly articulate the journey, articulated
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  Speaker 3: from the experience of what it was like from my perspective.
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  Speaker 3: But also my heart was made Let it not be
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  Speaker 3: a book where I have an axe to grind and
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  Speaker 3: I'm here with a pail of stones ready to throw
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  Speaker 3: stones at everybody. I wanted to truthfully, authentically read the book.
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  Speaker 3: I say to folks, if you want to hear an authentic,
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  Speaker 3: incredible story of success and brokenness and redemption, then it's
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  Speaker 3: a powerful book. If you're looking for a book that's
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  Speaker 3: going to pull the curtain back on the dysfunction on
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  Speaker 3: the Christian music CICM world, and you know that's going
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  Speaker 3: to be a great gossip session, you're buying the wrong
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  Speaker 3: book because it definitely ain't going to be that. But
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  Speaker 3: I did honestly talk about my journey, and maybe that
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  Speaker 3: may make some people a bit uncomfortable, but I really
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  Speaker 3: believe the integrity is solid with the book in regards
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  Speaker 3: to me telling truthfully my story. As I recall, it.
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  Speaker 2: Was alcohol the mean reason though you didn't leave the
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  Speaker 2: band I.
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  Speaker 3: Made you got to read the book. You know what,
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  Speaker 3: I got to a placemate emotionally mentally. The alcohol was
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  Speaker 3: a crutch. It wasn't the reason. You know, at the time,
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  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff was said. You know, you've got
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  Speaker 3: to realize back then we never had the animal of
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  Speaker 3: social media where stuff would go viral overnight. Mate, you
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  Speaker 3: could be canceled overnight now, but back then that didn't exist.
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  Speaker 3: So top things took time to permeate through the industry,
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  Speaker 3: you know, through it was a much slower pace. So
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  Speaker 3: I guess it really gave the industry of different people
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  Speaker 3: at place in the leadership to really try to get
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  Speaker 3: before the horse and cart and get a narrative going.
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  Speaker 3: And there were things that were said to protect people
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  Speaker 3: that honestly, in hindsight looking back now weren't true. And
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  Speaker 3: things were said to protect the brand, to protect the label.
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  Speaker 3: And look, mate, I'm not going to be here today
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  Speaker 3: this interview. If I was in there shoes made to
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  Speaker 3: be honest, right or wrong, I probably would have done
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  Speaker 3: the same thing because in regards to you, And I'm
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  Speaker 3: not going to take the scripture out of context because
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  Speaker 3: sometimes it can be so used as a as an
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  Speaker 3: exploit and distorted. But I'm going to give grace and
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  Speaker 3: maybe there were ones. From a perspective, love covers a
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  Speaker 3: multitude of sins, so I'm going to give. I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to give great blyeway there for the benefit of the
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  Speaker 3: doubt were their right motives? Many yes? Were their wrong motives?
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  Speaker 3: Many yes? When things were said, and hey, but like
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  Speaker 3: I said, we can truthfully talk about this, and I
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  Speaker 3: pray my story will shine a light on an incredible
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  Speaker 3: redemptive story.
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  Speaker 2: Looking back, what was the turning point when you realize
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  Speaker 2: that your story wasn't over, that God had a second
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  Speaker 2: chapter in your life.
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  Speaker 3: I had no idea about that, mate, I honestly when
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  Speaker 3: I left the newsboys and my world fell apart, and
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  Speaker 3: you know then I lost my marriage, my family, lost everything, mate,
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  Speaker 3: I basically went back to Australia to die, to crawl,
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  Speaker 3: to disappear into obscurity. And really, you know, you know,
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  Speaker 3: when you're so broken, made and lost, you can't even
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  Speaker 3: swallow hope. Hope is so far removed from you that
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  Speaker 3: you can't even emotionally connect with it. And it's not
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  Speaker 3: like I went back to Australia, even though there were
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  Speaker 3: reports that said I went back to Australia to be
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  Speaker 3: with my family and follow ministry ministry, and that did that.
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  Speaker 3: I was so bro and again it was a great
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  Speaker 3: press release to cover up and I was so broken
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  Speaker 3: and lost, made, and I started. God had me on
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  Speaker 3: a journey of redemption. But it's not like I went
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  Speaker 3: back there. Man, I'm going to fix my life and
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  Speaker 3: turned made. I was broken and it was a journey
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  Speaker 3: of brokenness where you know, I eventually experienced God's grace
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  Speaker 3: that drew me back to a place at the of
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  Speaker 3: the cross in repentance. And it had nothing to do
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  Speaker 3: with how amazing I am. Oh I deserved it. Oh man,
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  Speaker 3: you know I got to come back. Story now. It
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  Speaker 3: was God's incredible mercy and grace that he chose to
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  Speaker 3: draw me back in repentance and I begin to find
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  Speaker 3: my way back to Christ. But I'd had to be
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  Speaker 3: on your interview today to say, hey, life is now
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  Speaker 3: a bit of roses. But I got a lot more scars, man,
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  Speaker 3: I got a lot more regrets. I get a lot
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  Speaker 3: more wounds. Life has beat me up really bad. But
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  Speaker 3: my story now is of this incredible God who sees
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  Speaker 3: us and who was constantly drawing his kids back to
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  Speaker 3: a place of redemption and intimacy.
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  Speaker 4: You know.
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  Speaker 3: And I've taken full responsibility made for my wrong choices.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I've taken full responsibility for the sin in
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  Speaker 3: my life made that tragically took everything from me. And
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  Speaker 3: I can't change the past. You know, I lost my
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  Speaker 3: first marriage, just the brokenness of that, my family, my ministry.
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  Speaker 3: I can't change that. But I've experienced God's grace and
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  Speaker 3: every day now when I wake up my prayers, God,
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  Speaker 3: how many years I have left. I don't know, but
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  Speaker 3: let my life now bring glory to you. Let me
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  Speaker 3: live a life now that brings honor and used my brokenness.
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  Speaker 4: And my redemptive story to bring other people hope.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to ask you that what is your
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  Speaker 2: hope for those who hear your story and believe they're
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: too far going for Regard's redemption?
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  Speaker 3: Mate, Michael, you hit the nail on the head. If
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  Speaker 3: you know what's my goal with the book. I got
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  Speaker 3: to be honest. Made my ego says hope by so
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  Speaker 3: lot supple, but the reality is made. I don't care.
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  Speaker 3: My prayer is that the book would find its way
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  Speaker 3: to the hands of people who feel so unredeemable, so broken,
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  Speaker 3: so lost. And the message of my book is that
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  Speaker 3: no one is so far lost, so far broken, so
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  Speaker 3: far gone, that can't experience this incredible God's redemption. No
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  Speaker 3: one is so far removed, even though they may feel
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  Speaker 3: like I'm so lost, I'm so messed up, God could
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  Speaker 3: never reach me, or touch me or forgive me. Where
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: the reality is just like Thessalm says, God is close
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  Speaker 3: to the wounded and the broken hearted. And that's my
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: prayer that they would experience this incredible God who sees them.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: I love what in Genesis said talks about the story
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  Speaker 3: of Hagar when she flee and was went to the
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  Speaker 3: desert to die, and in the desert made Isn't that
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  Speaker 3: the desert speaks of that base dridness, of hopelessness, of
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  Speaker 3: death where people go to die in the desert experience.
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  Speaker 3: But in the desert she met God, the God he
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  Speaker 3: saw her. And that's my prayer, mate, that they would
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  Speaker 3: experience this incredible God that no one has so far
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  Speaker 3: gone that can't be redeemed. And that is the message
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  Speaker 3: of this book. It's not about John James comeback story there.
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  Speaker 3: It's about this incredible redempt of God that is still
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  Speaker 3: in the miracle business of bringing hope, mate, and changing
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  Speaker 3: lives and redeeming lives. And man, I'm the most less
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  Speaker 3: humble men in the world that God never gave up
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  Speaker 3: on me. I would have given up on me years ago, mate,
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  Speaker 3: but God refuse refuses to give up on these kids. Amen.
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk briefly about your new music before I let
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: you go.
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  Speaker 3: Oh oh, the crazy oh oh, mate. The album is
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  Speaker 3: another miracle, you know, you know, can you believe thirty
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  Speaker 3: almost thirty years ago I left the band. I can't
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  Speaker 3: a lifetime. And when I left the band and God
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: had be on this journey of healing and I did
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: get to a place of wonderful healing. But one thing
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  Speaker 3: I said for almost thirty years, mate, that I'll never
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: sing again. I was just so broken in that area.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, when you listen to the lies for
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: so long, the lies become more real than the truth.
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  Speaker 3: I listened to the lies. You're useless, You're hopeless. You know,
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  Speaker 3: you're a fool. How arrogant are you? Why would God
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  Speaker 3: ever want to sing through somebody like you that made
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: a mess of everything? And we listened to the lies,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: and those those lies kept me broken and crippled. You know,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: I didn't write music, play music, sing music. That area
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: was dead, mate, And about a year and a half ago,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: and God did the impossible and he breathed on that
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  Speaker 3: area of my life. And you know, the books going
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: on this, and it was a long journey, and eventually
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: I found myself in a studio. But I wrote eleven songs,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: made it in the studio singing man. You know, I
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: hadn't sung for so long thirty I actually had to
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: think I had to go and get several months to
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: singing lessons. I didn't even know if I could sing again.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: As stupid as that sound, Mate, I dropped like forty pounds.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: I want to get into shape. My wife had me
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: at five am every morning doing four miles out on
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: the pavement walking And it's like God wanted to do
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  Speaker 3: a miracle, but he needed my participation in the journey
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: of healing. And I remember in the studio, Mate, when
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: it comes time to sing, I didn't know I get
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: sing it. It was the most surreal journey. But we
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: have the new album, God of the Second Chance, released
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: June said just out. We're letting folks know anyone who
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: purchased the book on Amazon. If they go to our website,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: there's a lead to email us and let us know
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: you purchased the new book. And just to say thank you, mate,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: we're sending people a link to download by brand new
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: album for free, just to say thank you. Stylistically, it
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: sounds like it should have been the follow up album.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: The songs like Shine Breakfast to take Me to Your Leader,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: they say brand It sounds like it was a nineties
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Newsboys album. I said, yes, I'm a child with the nineties.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: What could I say? I love cheesy nineties music, but stylistically,
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: if you like Shine, Breakfast, take Me to Your Leader,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: those sort of songs. Oh you're gonna love this album.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: That is I reach USA dot com.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: That's the website that you keep reverage.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: You can get the information about the music, the book,
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: how to get it all on the website.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I'll be a mess if I didn't ask
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: you about the controversy about the Newsboys before I let
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: you go. Of course you got the Newsboys. It's better
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: than news in the past year for several scandals. What
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: were your emotions as you watch that, John, and maybe
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: what changes would you like to see in the industry,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: maybe to prevent that type of tragedy from happening.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: When I think, like everyone else mate, at a shock
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: and at heartbreak, because even though I've been out of
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: the Newsboys for many years, it's still part of my
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: history and legacy, and it was heartbreaking, made of my
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: heart goes out to the victims and of how this
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: tragedy could take place. And people have said to me,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: and there'll always be people these throwstones, they said, Oh man,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: you're good timing bringing your book out now you're trying
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: to peeg you back on this whole scandal. There will
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: always be people, these throwstones. But I let folks lovingly
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: notice that listened. The book was in the works several
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: years before the Mike take thee ever dropped. It just
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: got released now, And actually we would have released it earlier,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: but out of respect, we thought it was just integrity
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: to give give a time. I think, in the light
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: of what with my Tata, the newsboys, more than ever,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: the message of my book needs to get out, Mate,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: that no one might Tatum be included Newsport, No one
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: is so far broken or lost or sinful that can't
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: experience God's redemption and the message of this incredible God
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: that's still redeeming broken people. Do I deserve it?
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: No?
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Does my Tate deserve it? No? Do you deserve it? No?
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: None of us deserve the mercy and the grace of God.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: And I pray that we believers who are watching this
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: from the outside don't come the redemptive police and where
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: now the judge, jury and execution. Well, you deserve redemption.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: You do what you did, mate, forget it. There's no
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: hope for you. You know what, aren't you glad that
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: redemption has nothing to do with you and I. It
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: has to do with the heart of God. And he
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: chooses who, he recalls back to the foot of the
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: cross and forgives and redem He chooses the threat of
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: redemption that he wants to weave into the most broken lives,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: And he doesn't need our permission, and it has nothing
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: to do with us. I'd pray that one day we'll
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: look back on this mess and shake our heads with
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: awe and go God, I don't know how you did it,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: but you breath the most incredible redemptive story out of
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that mess. But isn't that so like our Lord and Savior.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: He loves to step into the middle of the mess
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: and bring a miracle, redemptive story. You ask me, how
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: do we change it? Hey, I don't know if we
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: ever can. Are the safety nets we can put in
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: place give people greater accountability, greater transparency, absolutely, But I
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: look at the common denominator in any scandal, especially in Christidom.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: What's the one common denominator? People? People can have them
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: all accountability, all the safety nets, all the right things
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: in place, but unfortunately people can lose their spiritual equilibrium
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: make wrong, sinful choices, and even the most gifted leaders,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: amazing leaders, great leaders in the body of Christ, can
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: make tragic, sinful choices that the collateral damage is so devastating.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: But I'm reminded of scripture, Crank. You look at King David,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: the greatest King, the greatest leader, man after God's heart.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Look what a leader, what an anointed vessel? And you
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: know he was an adulterer, a liar, a murderer, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: you know by all counts he deserved God to turn
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: his back on him for the rest of his life.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: But God chose to forgive, and God still chose to
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: use a broken vessel. So I think talking about it, mate,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: we can definitely bring things to light. I don't think
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: we should just blindly wander through the dark and Haykers
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: case or as a right it is how it is
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: that we could never change, and that's ridiculous. But we
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: have to honestly have Helphi conversations and do our best
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: to give safety nets to people and realize that so
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: often we fast track people and put them in a
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: position of influence and not really knowing their their character,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: their foundation, their biblical theology. You know where we fast
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: track people today, especially in the music industry, on gifting
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: talent charisma. Person can sing, next thing, They've got an
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: album and huge podcasts and followers. Well, bray, they got
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: to give talent a look charisma. But what's the found that,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: what's their integrity and their character, what's their biblical foundation
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: built on? That's a different conversation, mate.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: If you enjoy today's interview, please make sure to subscribe
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: and share the episode with a friend. I beg thanks
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: to the team that Life Audio for their partnership with
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: us on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,
• 24:03
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• 24:08
  Speaker 3: See you next time.