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SMNTY Classics: Lucy Hicks Anderson · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to definitely
0:07
Speaker 1: Never Told Your protection of I Heart Radio and today,
0:19
Speaker 1: since we're in Black History Month, and also there's been
0:23
Speaker 1: a lot in the news lately, we want to come
0:26
Speaker 1: back and talk about it about some anti l g
0:30
Speaker 1: B d Q plus laws, including the Florida proposed law
0:37
Speaker 1: Don't Say Gag, which got a lot of attraction. And
0:40
Speaker 1: then here of some friends of mine living. I think
0:44
Speaker 1: this happened in Athens, but this is like a five
0:46
Speaker 1: year old kid drew drawing it said gay is okay,
0:49
Speaker 1: and it's called this huge up work because parents, some
0:52
Speaker 1: parents like you, have to take it down. There's being
0:55
Speaker 1: sued for putting up this picture. So I know there's
0:57
Speaker 1: a lot about that in the news and it's really
0:59
Speaker 1: a trigger for a lot of people, and we will
1:01
Speaker 1: come back and talk about that. But in honor of
1:03
Speaker 1: these things, we thought we'd bring back this female first
1:08
Speaker 1: that Eaves did around trans rights and being a Black
1:13
Speaker 1: American trans woman and being put on trial for her identity.
1:19
Speaker 1: So please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and
1:27
Speaker 1: welcome to Stephane Never Told you the production of I
1:29
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Today. We're very excited. It's time for one
1:42
Speaker 1: of our very favorite segments here on Sminthy Female First,
1:45
Speaker 1: and that means we are joined by one of our
1:48
Speaker 1: very favorite people, Eves. Hello, Eves, Hey, y'all, how are you?
1:54
Speaker 1: How are you doing? Eves? I am doing well. I
1:56
Speaker 1: feel like that's such a loaded question. Is that's true?
2:00
Speaker 1: Any time anybody asked me how I'm doing, I'm like, oh,
2:02
Speaker 1: I have to feel all the fields right now. Um.
2:05
Speaker 1: But it's but it's a good thing, Like I'm I'm
2:07
Speaker 1: okay with working through that. Um, but I feel, um,
2:11
Speaker 1: I feel hopeful. Okay, I'll say that. Okay, that's supposed
2:18
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, Um, I'm I'm very excited to talk
2:22
Speaker 1: about the person you've brought for us today, Eves. So
2:26
Speaker 1: who who did you choose? I am very excited to
2:29
Speaker 1: talk about Lucy hicks Anderson. She's who will be talking
2:33
Speaker 1: about today. UM. And it's honestly so long overdue to
2:38
Speaker 1: be talking about a trans woman on in this series. UM.
2:42
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot that's not known about
2:44
Speaker 1: her history. But I did a deep dive into all
2:47
Speaker 1: of the newspaper articles on her, and it's super weird
2:53
Speaker 1: and also fascinating. To kind of track the way that
2:56
Speaker 1: um the local newspaper was talking about her, but UM,
2:59
Speaker 1: just to say what her first is and was, UM
3:03
Speaker 1: was she was considered one of the first trans people
3:05
Speaker 1: to fight for trans rights in court and considered the
3:08
Speaker 1: first like black American trans woman to be put on
3:11
Speaker 1: trial for her identity. And as always, like you know,
3:17
Speaker 1: there's so many first happening for trans women like today
3:22
Speaker 1: just because of access, because of whose story is told
3:26
Speaker 1: and and distributed. And uh that being said, like trans
3:31
Speaker 1: women have been pioneers for so long. UM, They've been
3:35
Speaker 1: first for so long, but have so frequently gone unrecognized. UM.
3:40
Speaker 1: So yeah, that caveat that happens around first happens here
3:44
Speaker 1: just like as we always do in other episodes. But UM,
3:48
Speaker 1: it's particularly relevant in this case just because of how
3:54
Speaker 1: frequent trans women and especially trans black women go and
3:59
Speaker 1: recognized is in history absolutely and UM selfishly one of
4:07
Speaker 1: my biggest frustrations when I research UM women of history
4:16
Speaker 1: is artist history in general. The terminology didn't exist and
4:21
Speaker 1: I never ever ever want to um use the wrong
4:25
Speaker 1: identity for someone if I can help it, UM, But
4:31
Speaker 1: for so long there was no terminology and and because
4:38
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, it's I'm glad you put that caveat
4:41
Speaker 1: um that so many people have probably definitely did have
4:47
Speaker 1: first that are unrecognized. Yeah, I was definitely going to
4:53
Speaker 1: bring up the language thing. I mean, as we know,
4:55
Speaker 1: language is always changing, and we want to use the
4:58
Speaker 1: terminology that a person would have wanted to use for themselves,
5:01
Speaker 1: and that um Lucy Hicks Anderson has been put in
5:04
Speaker 1: this category of you know, trans women, and for that
5:07
Speaker 1: reason we can say it was that first for a
5:09
Speaker 1: trans woman. But you know, terms like trans sexual, transgender,
5:14
Speaker 1: UM and like to spirit are relatively new um through
5:17
Speaker 1: like over the course of history in terms of when
5:20
Speaker 1: they were coined and when they started becoming part of
5:23
Speaker 1: popular usage. UM. But the trans, non binary and gender
5:27
Speaker 1: queer identities have really existed for so long, for centuries.
5:31
Speaker 1: And obviously gender is complicated, and our knowledge around it
5:34
Speaker 1: and our understanding of and perception of it is consistently
5:38
Speaker 1: UM transforming. And it's also so personal, you know, it's
5:42
Speaker 1: so personal UM and so specific to a person. So
5:45
Speaker 1: that means that like finding first for trans folks who
5:48
Speaker 1: are no longer with us I can't speak for themselves
5:51
Speaker 1: is really difficult. And but but still also so important
5:56
Speaker 1: to me, is like, because that's so difficult. I think
5:58
Speaker 1: that's why it's important to bring to the forefront a
6:01
Speaker 1: person like Lucy hicks Anderson. Like I can't I can't
6:04
Speaker 1: just say, oh, it's difficult. I'm not gonna like talk
6:06
Speaker 1: about this person and try to frame it as a
6:09
Speaker 1: first because the language around it is changing. Let me
6:12
Speaker 1: just bring her story to the forefront, because that's what
6:15
Speaker 1: needs to happen. Um. And that's on top of the
6:18
Speaker 1: fact that they were so often marginalized and persecuted for
6:23
Speaker 1: their identities, regardless of what the identity was called. UM,
6:27
Speaker 1: And they had to be very discerning about how they
6:29
Speaker 1: presented themselves and what they chose to record, because you know,
6:34
Speaker 1: once it's it's it's once it's written, once it's recorded,
6:37
Speaker 1: is there. And also on top of that, their histories
6:41
Speaker 1: were often sidelined by siss folks who were actually doing
6:44
Speaker 1: the recording of the history. So all those things like
6:48
Speaker 1: that that just makes this a multilayered situation, but doesn't
6:51
Speaker 1: negate the fact that Lucy hicks anderson story is one
6:54
Speaker 1: that we deserve to learn about, no yea, yeah, yeah,
6:59
Speaker 1: And I love this was such an amazing story. I love.
7:03
Speaker 1: It was almost like a page turner because I thought, oh,
7:06
Speaker 1: I first looked her up, okay, chef uh, and then
7:11
Speaker 1: I was reading along, Oh wow, this is going in
7:13
Speaker 1: a direction I really didn'ticipate. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of
7:19
Speaker 1: twists and turns. I will say that in her story.
7:22
Speaker 1: I'll just start off with the content warning up front,
7:25
Speaker 1: because there is some mention of violence against women in
7:28
Speaker 1: this conversation. Um, but yeah, it's like a it's twists
7:33
Speaker 1: and turns in this story, I mean, and it's super fascinating.
7:36
Speaker 1: And I think also telling that like the people who
7:40
Speaker 1: were the ones who recorded her words, Like, I think
7:42
Speaker 1: we have to be careful because in the newspapers that
7:46
Speaker 1: quote her, it's like she's not quoting herself. Those are
7:49
Speaker 1: other people who are saying what she said in the courtroom.
7:51
Speaker 1: So but yeah, um, a lot of twists and turns.
7:55
Speaker 1: So shall we shall we begin? Let's so she was
8:00
Speaker 1: born in Waddi, Kentucky in eighteen eighty six. Um, she
8:05
Speaker 1: grew up there and she knew from a young age
8:08
Speaker 1: that she was a girl, so she wore dresses and
8:11
Speaker 1: she started going by the name Lucy when she was
8:13
Speaker 1: super young and the story. As the story goes, her
8:16
Speaker 1: mother took her to a doctor when she was nine
8:19
Speaker 1: and the doctor recommended that they raised her as a girl,
8:22
Speaker 1: and so she left school at age fifteen and she
8:26
Speaker 1: began doing domestic work. So after a while, um, a
8:31
Speaker 1: little bit later in life, she married her first husband,
8:33
Speaker 1: Clarence Hicks, and that was in nineteen twenty and she
8:36
Speaker 1: did later divorce him in nineteen twenty nine. They actually
8:39
Speaker 1: separated I think around nineteen six, like before they got
8:43
Speaker 1: to the point of actual divorce, they have been separated
8:47
Speaker 1: for a while, but when they were together, they moved
8:50
Speaker 1: to Oxnard, California, And so she did domestic work there too.
8:54
Speaker 1: And as you brought up earlier, Andy, she worked as
8:56
Speaker 1: a chef. She was like she was popping in Oxnard.
9:01
Speaker 1: After she saved enough money, she purchased a boarding house
9:05
Speaker 1: and she ran a brothel there and a speak easy
9:08
Speaker 1: And this was during prohibition and so yeah, like I said,
9:11
Speaker 1: she was popping. Like she was really well known for
9:15
Speaker 1: in the community. She would host parties um that people
9:19
Speaker 1: loved to have her at in terms of her serving
9:22
Speaker 1: and her hosting and her cooking. And she also appeared
9:26
Speaker 1: in the city and County courts a lot um when
9:31
Speaker 1: she and other sex workers in her establishment were arrested
9:35
Speaker 1: in raids, and reportedly when she got arrested one night,
9:40
Speaker 1: Oxnard's quote unquote leading banker built her out because he
9:46
Speaker 1: had planned a huge dinner party that would have failed
9:49
Speaker 1: if she were actually incarcerated, so he wanted her to
9:52
Speaker 1: be there so badly built her out. My dinner party
9:58
Speaker 1: is in danger my money, Yeah, which I think speaks
10:03
Speaker 1: to just how well liked and well loved she was
10:07
Speaker 1: in the community there. Yeah. So in nineteen forty four
10:11
Speaker 1: she married Ruben Anderson, who was in the army, And
10:17
Speaker 1: there's not a ton of information out there about her life.
10:20
Speaker 1: But according to scholar see Riley Snortonum who wrote the
10:24
Speaker 1: book Black on Both Sides, a Racial History of trans Identity,
10:28
Speaker 1: which has a lot of cool information on Lucy Hicks
10:31
Speaker 1: Anderson in there, but a lot that was documented about
10:34
Speaker 1: her was taken from articles that were written between nineteen
10:37
Speaker 1: and nineteen forty six, and that's when her chials actually
10:41
Speaker 1: started getting a lot of media coverage across the US.
10:45
Speaker 1: Um A lot of it was obviously centered in California
10:48
Speaker 1: because of like ox Start, and that's where it was based,
10:52
Speaker 1: but there was also national coverage of her court cases,
10:57
Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a second. I would recommend end, like,
11:00
Speaker 1: if you're interested in learning more about Lucy Hicks Anderson
11:03
Speaker 1: reading those newspapers. They are documented online, like you can't
11:08
Speaker 1: get access to them online. But there is a lot
11:12
Speaker 1: of dehumanizing, anti trans language and in those in those
11:16
Speaker 1: articles as well as like a lot of miss gendering.
11:20
Speaker 1: There's dead naming in there, and they put her name
11:24
Speaker 1: in quotes. Uh so, yeah, like that's expect that when
11:30
Speaker 1: you read through those articles, like they often appended negro
11:33
Speaker 1: to to her name. They were like Lucy Hicks Anderson
11:36
Speaker 1: negro or Lucy Hicks negro, like that was an essential
11:41
Speaker 1: part of rame. Um and often too would call her
11:45
Speaker 1: like John Doe and then put Lucy in parentheses, or
11:50
Speaker 1: like just straight up call her the Oxnart negro as
11:52
Speaker 1: if there was only one. There was only one black
11:56
Speaker 1: person in Oxnard at the time, and you bet it
11:58
Speaker 1: was Lucy Hicks Anderson. Um. But all that said, like
12:03
Speaker 1: there is uh that that's the language that you'll encounter
12:06
Speaker 1: when you're reading these descriptions of all the stuff that
12:09
Speaker 1: was happening to Lucy at the time. We have some
12:12
Speaker 1: more for you listeners, but first we have a quick
12:14
Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
12:29
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. Speaking of articles, um, there is this
12:34
Speaker 1: one that that comes up that's kind of a flashpoint
12:37
Speaker 1: in her life. On November five, there was an issue
12:42
Speaker 1: of Time magazine that included an article on Lucy. Yeah,
12:47
Speaker 1: and it was it was the title of the article
12:49
Speaker 1: was sin and Sue Flay. Oh you can imagine what
12:54
Speaker 1: this is going to be about, um. And it was
12:58
Speaker 1: titled that because, according to to the article, that's what
13:01
Speaker 1: Lucy trafficked in sin and to Flay quotes trafficked in um.
13:07
Speaker 1: And the article describes how she cooked for ox Nart's
13:10
Speaker 1: leading families, and how her cooking was the quote unquote
13:13
Speaker 1: talk of the town. So I want to read an
13:16
Speaker 1: excerpt from the article so you can get a better
13:18
Speaker 1: sense of her character and appearance through the through the
13:22
Speaker 1: words of the person who wrote the article. But here's
13:25
Speaker 1: the quote. As ox Nart grew, Lucy's lone body house
13:29
Speaker 1: expanded into a half block of frame buildings, each well furnished,
13:34
Speaker 1: neatly painted, and with window boxes full of geraniums. In
13:37
Speaker 1: Ventura County. She became as well known as ox Nart's
13:41
Speaker 1: huge American Crystal Sugar Company refinery. Lucy was the more
13:45
Speaker 1: spectacular site. She wore bright, low cut silk dresses, from
13:49
Speaker 1: which her slat like collar bones protruded, and she affected
13:53
Speaker 1: picture hats and high heeled shoes. Her wigs were her pride.
13:57
Speaker 1: She had a long black, wavy one or straight bobbed
14:01
Speaker 1: one and for special occasions, a shoulder limp job in
14:05
Speaker 1: red um. Yeah. So her wigs is like one thing
14:08
Speaker 1: people love to talk about in these in these articles,
14:11
Speaker 1: they were like obsessed with her wigs. Um. Yeah. So
14:15
Speaker 1: it also said in the article she gave generously to
14:17
Speaker 1: the Red Cross, to the Boy Scouts, and to the
14:19
Speaker 1: charities and all in all in total, like the the
14:23
Speaker 1: articles really laudatory of of her life in ox Nard
14:27
Speaker 1: and the things that she did in ox nart Um.
14:30
Speaker 1: It was said that in the article she was immune
14:32
Speaker 1: to the law because of her local fame and knowledge
14:36
Speaker 1: of town secrets. And I'm like, oh, I want to
14:38
Speaker 1: know these towns pecause but that those weren't those weren't mentioned,
14:43
Speaker 1: so I'm like, well, what are those anyway? She had
14:46
Speaker 1: that also said that she had purchased nearly fifty dollars
14:49
Speaker 1: in war bonds. Basically, the tone of the article in
14:53
Speaker 1: the beginning was Lucy was doing really well. You know,
14:55
Speaker 1: she was this great community figures. He did a lot
14:57
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. She was you know, she
14:59
Speaker 1: was money. Um. But at the end of the article
15:03
Speaker 1: it was like this if not Shamalan twist, where it
15:06
Speaker 1: was like like it said that a sailor had gotten
15:09
Speaker 1: an s t I from one of the women at
15:11
Speaker 1: Lucy's brothel, and of course it's posturing this in a
15:14
Speaker 1: way where like that's a bad thing. And the article
15:17
Speaker 1: said that the women there, including Lucy, were forced to
15:20
Speaker 1: undergo a medical exam, um, when this sailor had brought
15:25
Speaker 1: up this instance. Um. And there's this kicker at the
15:30
Speaker 1: end of the article. Um. The very last sentence of
15:33
Speaker 1: the article was Lucy was a man. Like that was
15:36
Speaker 1: the punchline. Um. And the whole life that they described
15:40
Speaker 1: so glowingly up until that point was like part of
15:43
Speaker 1: the joke. Um, so yeah, super bad. But it was
15:49
Speaker 1: this led to like a basically another attain of events,
15:52
Speaker 1: like it was a snowball. After this whole forced medical
15:57
Speaker 1: examination situation, um, So it was feel that Lucy was
16:01
Speaker 1: assigned mill at birth um. And then at that point
16:04
Speaker 1: the Ventura County District Attorney voided her marriage to Reuben
16:08
Speaker 1: and arrested her for perjury. So he justified that charge
16:15
Speaker 1: by saying that she signed the marriage license saying that
16:19
Speaker 1: there were no legal objections to the marriage. So in
16:22
Speaker 1: that case, at the time, marriage was supposed to be
16:26
Speaker 1: between a man and a woman. That was how marriage
16:29
Speaker 1: was defined, and in their eyes, Lucy was not a woman.
16:32
Speaker 1: So by saying that there were no legal adjusttions to
16:35
Speaker 1: the marriage by signing the marriage license, she was in
16:37
Speaker 1: effect committing fraud, like she was lying. So she pleaded
16:41
Speaker 1: not guilty to that charge of perjury. And at the
16:44
Speaker 1: same time, the whole time, the district attorney was maintaining
16:48
Speaker 1: that she was a man and therefore incapable of marrying Reuben.
16:51
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's how that the whole situation kind of
16:56
Speaker 1: started in snowballed into a lot more back and forth
17:00
Speaker 1: with the court system. Yeah, I feel like that Times
17:06
Speaker 1: article was just kind of like a gotcha article. They
17:08
Speaker 1: were trying to be so shocking, trying to get the
17:13
Speaker 1: shock value. It's such a weird like way of leading
17:18
Speaker 1: out to it. I also think that it worked in
17:21
Speaker 1: opposition to the goal that they were trying to that
17:24
Speaker 1: it seems like they were trying to go for, which
17:26
Speaker 1: is like, whoa you. She's an amazing person as far
17:29
Speaker 1: as you tell me, Like the first three quarters of
17:32
Speaker 1: this article and it wasn't that long, the first five
17:35
Speaker 1: six of this article is are very praising of Lucy.
17:40
Speaker 1: So like, as far as I can tell, like what's
17:41
Speaker 1: the issue, which was she sounds like she's like a
17:46
Speaker 1: source of joy in this community. Um, that's that's the
17:50
Speaker 1: impression that I got from it. Um. So yeah, it
17:52
Speaker 1: seems it's very uh weird, but also you know, not
17:57
Speaker 1: to be expecting, you know. Yeah. So she went through
18:00
Speaker 1: a week long trial in Vncia County and there was
18:04
Speaker 1: medical testimony given as a trial where the doctors attested
18:09
Speaker 1: that Lucy was a man um and Louise Gale testified
18:14
Speaker 1: as Lucy's sister. She said that she was Lucy's sister,
18:17
Speaker 1: and she affirmed Lucy's testimony that a doctor had told
18:21
Speaker 1: her that she was quote more of a girl than
18:24
Speaker 1: a boy in her childhood, referring back to the um
18:28
Speaker 1: part of her life that we spoke about earlier when
18:30
Speaker 1: her mother took her to the doctor. So Lucy testified
18:34
Speaker 1: that Reuben was her husband. When they asked her, is
18:38
Speaker 1: room and your husband? She said yes, And she also
18:40
Speaker 1: said that she planned on staying with him till death.
18:43
Speaker 1: Do us part um. Yeah, So Lucy's defense attorney presented
18:49
Speaker 1: this theory that Lucy had quote unquote hidden organs that
18:52
Speaker 1: couldn't be discovered until she went through an autopsy after
18:56
Speaker 1: she died. So I want to highlight because this just
19:00
Speaker 1: says it so concisely um in a way better than
19:03
Speaker 1: I could. But I wanted to highlight apart from snortins
19:06
Speaker 1: black on both sides book that I mentioned earlier, I'm
19:09
Speaker 1: just gonna read a quote here in exchange for an
19:11
Speaker 1: unincarcerated life, hicks Anderson's hidden organs defense offered up her
19:17
Speaker 1: corpse to be put to indefinite institutional use, indexing the
19:21
Speaker 1: medical industries sustained practice of experimentation on black bodies in
19:26
Speaker 1: the United States. Though hicks Anderson's defense comprised a critique
19:30
Speaker 1: of medical wisdom as a science of the surface, it
19:34
Speaker 1: also highlighted how black flesh had long been central to
19:38
Speaker 1: medical professional knowledge and it's so relevant to things still
19:42
Speaker 1: happening today. You know, black bodies being offered up for
19:45
Speaker 1: medical experimentation and for use as if they should just
19:49
Speaker 1: be objectified and treated as flesh in the wording of
19:52
Speaker 1: the author from that quote. Yeah, and it's just gross
19:57
Speaker 1: to put it plainly. So on November seven, ninety five,
20:02
Speaker 1: a jury found Lucy guilty of perjury and she was
20:07
Speaker 1: incarcerated in the men's section of the Ventura County Jail,
20:11
Speaker 1: something that's also still happening to this day. Um. She
20:14
Speaker 1: was facing a term of up to fourteen years in
20:17
Speaker 1: state prison. I think it was a minimum of one
20:19
Speaker 1: year and a maximum of fourteen years in state prison
20:23
Speaker 1: for quote unquote perjury UM on this marriage marriage license.
20:28
Speaker 1: But she was in the end sentenced to ten years
20:31
Speaker 1: on probation UM, with the first year spent in county jail.
20:35
Speaker 1: So she was incarcerated at the county jail from December
20:39
Speaker 1: of nineteen forty five to May of nineteen forty six,
20:42
Speaker 1: and in early June of that year. After she was released.
20:47
Speaker 1: In early June of nineteen forty six, she held a
20:50
Speaker 1: political rally and cook out to encourage people to vote.
20:53
Speaker 1: And you can read an article about this talking about
20:56
Speaker 1: the political rally that she held. Actually UM, and they
21:00
Speaker 1: said it was a democratic political rally. But the quotes
21:02
Speaker 1: that they give from Lucy Hicks Anderson in the article itself,
21:06
Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm not for anybody, you know, I'm
21:09
Speaker 1: just here. She was kind of very neutral in the situation, UM,
21:12
Speaker 1: even though I think the rally was for like sheriff
21:15
Speaker 1: and obviously positioned within the times in the conversations we're
21:18
Speaker 1: having around you know, really taking a stand in the
21:21
Speaker 1: ways that we talk about policing. UM right now, is
21:25
Speaker 1: it was just funny to read that article like the
21:27
Speaker 1: context of contemporary times. But all that said, UM, there
21:32
Speaker 1: is an article about that political rally, and and you know,
21:37
Speaker 1: positioning her as this person who's upstanding in the community
21:40
Speaker 1: and like holding these events that people want to go to. UM.
21:43
Speaker 1: But she would soon being car start again, So rewinding
21:48
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, back in October of nineteen,
21:52
Speaker 1: an FBI agent actually arrested her for failing to register
21:55
Speaker 1: for the draft in World War Two. While she was
21:58
Speaker 1: awaiting her trial for perjury, her charge for violating the
22:03
Speaker 1: Selective Service Act was actually dismissed, so that charge for
22:06
Speaker 1: not registering for the draft was dismissed, but that FBI
22:11
Speaker 1: agent went hunting for information on whether she was getting
22:15
Speaker 1: allowances from the government for being the wife of a
22:18
Speaker 1: service members. He was like, I'm gonna get you now,
22:20
Speaker 1: Like maybe I couldn't get you for the draft thing,
22:23
Speaker 1: but you know, we're gonna find something. Um. Yeah. So
22:27
Speaker 1: Lucy did admit to getting texts from Reuben, but the
22:31
Speaker 1: question was whether she was just getting allotments for Reuben
22:36
Speaker 1: or she was getting a wife a quote unquote wife
22:39
Speaker 1: allowance which was partly from a service member's pay and
22:43
Speaker 1: then partly from the U. S. Treasury. So that made
22:45
Speaker 1: it a whole different situation since he would be getting
22:47
Speaker 1: money from the actual U. S. Government. UM So if
22:50
Speaker 1: the latter was the case, she would also be accused
22:53
Speaker 1: of defrauding the government. So of course, this entire time,
22:57
Speaker 1: Lucy was having to affirm that she was a woman
22:59
Speaker 1: like she was having to defend her identity. Reuben was
23:03
Speaker 1: also arrested. Her husband was also arrested while he was
23:06
Speaker 1: on duty at Mitchell Field in New York. So he
23:09
Speaker 1: was a corporal in the Army Air Forces. Um. This
23:13
Speaker 1: was before the Air Force was established as a separate branch.
23:16
Speaker 1: So they were convicted of fraud UM and Lucy was
23:19
Speaker 1: sentenced to a year in jail and a nine hundred
23:22
Speaker 1: dollar fine in July of nineteen forty six. And so
23:25
Speaker 1: that nine hundred dollars was about the same amount that
23:29
Speaker 1: she had gotten in allotments. And just to put that
23:32
Speaker 1: in context, like that's about twelve thousand dollars today when
23:34
Speaker 1: you're accounting for inflation. Reuben was also sentenced to a
23:38
Speaker 1: year in jail in New York. So yeah, um, Lucy.
23:44
Speaker 1: She was also prohibited from wearing traditionally feminine clothes um.
23:49
Speaker 1: And when they were released from jail, they were banned
23:52
Speaker 1: from returning to Osnard and Lucy was still on probation.
23:56
Speaker 1: But in nineteen forty nine, Lucy was released from the
24:00
Speaker 1: terms of her probation after it was discovered that she
24:04
Speaker 1: had sold her ox and Art property. So the judge
24:06
Speaker 1: still advised that she stay out of ox and Art
24:08
Speaker 1: for at least the next year. But you know, after
24:11
Speaker 1: at that point, Lucy she rarely returned to oxn Ard
24:14
Speaker 1: and she spoke of missing her friends there. Of course, UM,
24:18
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what it was like for her
24:20
Speaker 1: to go through that like emotionally and and be essentially
24:26
Speaker 1: eggs out from a place where she created so much
24:30
Speaker 1: love and so much community and like was thriving mhm
24:37
Speaker 1: in a way. Obviously there was still a lot that
24:39
Speaker 1: she was up against, but um was a very active
24:41
Speaker 1: member of her community. UM. Yeah. So they lived in
24:46
Speaker 1: Los Angeles at that point, and Lucy died in Los
24:50
Speaker 1: Angeles in nineteen fifty four, and it was reported in
24:54
Speaker 1: the Ventura County Star Free Press, which is where that's
24:58
Speaker 1: the newspaper. You can read a lot of the articles
25:01
Speaker 1: that reported on her kind of like especially in that
25:03
Speaker 1: nine team forty time period where it's just kind of like,
25:07
Speaker 1: okay article, there's a point where's like an article every
25:10
Speaker 1: other day following her court case. Um. But yeah, it
25:13
Speaker 1: was reported there that a niece was with her at death,
25:16
Speaker 1: um and unnamed Denise. I don't think they named the
25:18
Speaker 1: niece in the article, but that they also said that
25:22
Speaker 1: her creamation and her burial were unattended. We have a
25:26
Speaker 1: little bit more for you listeners, but first we have
25:28
Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsor
25:45
Speaker 1: and her back. Thank you sponsor. So that's the story
25:49
Speaker 1: of Lucy Hicks Anderson and definitely one that I think
25:55
Speaker 1: it's so important to tell and it's also just so
26:00
Speaker 1: interesting to look back on. Yeah, um, I totally agree. Uh.
26:09
Speaker 1: I was so, I was so glad that you you
26:11
Speaker 1: picked this one. And again I agree that I hadn't
26:14
Speaker 1: heard of her earlier. Uh So it's always great to
26:19
Speaker 1: spotlight these people that we should be spotlighting. Um. And
26:25
Speaker 1: her story is amazing, Like I I wasn't exaggerating before
26:30
Speaker 1: when I was like learning about her so excitedly and
26:33
Speaker 1: it was like, oh and this and then there's a
26:36
Speaker 1: brothel and it's prohibition, but everybody liked there so much
26:39
Speaker 1: they let it go on all right. And yeah, having
26:43
Speaker 1: reading about someone who was so well loved and it
26:46
Speaker 1: seems so generous with her herself and her time and
26:52
Speaker 1: her money. Um yeah, and it just made me sort
26:57
Speaker 1: of like it was very inspiring. And also sometimes I
27:03
Speaker 1: get really model in these days about like I remember
27:07
Speaker 1: when we could do this thing with people, and just
27:11
Speaker 1: reading about all the community functions she she planned and
27:15
Speaker 1: like the welcome home parties and right, she just seems
27:20
Speaker 1: so kinmes um. I mean, according to the articles and
27:24
Speaker 1: even just what we you were talking about, and the
27:27
Speaker 1: small bits that I was able to reset her. She
27:29
Speaker 1: was a pillar in that community. UM and because the
27:33
Speaker 1: doctor was forcibly trying to I don't know, identify all
27:38
Speaker 1: the women in the brothel, which sounds very political in
27:40
Speaker 1: its way. Of course, UM had to take down a
27:43
Speaker 1: woman who only wanted to love people. And I don't
27:46
Speaker 1: you know, it's just such a big statement of this
27:49
Speaker 1: label of what did this do? How did this help?
27:53
Speaker 1: It help no one? There was nothing about what happened
27:57
Speaker 1: that actually helped anyone other than her coming out and
28:00
Speaker 1: saying I will fight for who I am. And this
28:02
Speaker 1: is who I am is not even bigger than I'm
28:05
Speaker 1: going to fight because I am a woman and I've
28:06
Speaker 1: been a woman, and I don't understand you've been accepting
28:09
Speaker 1: me as a woman. That's what you've seen. And there
28:12
Speaker 1: was no question until this nonsense essentially comes about. And
28:16
Speaker 1: I do love I did watch a small, a short
28:18
Speaker 1: documentary on her when they said she was she was
28:21
Speaker 1: not a bus skirting the rules, and I'm like, I
28:25
Speaker 1: like her so much. I wish I had that courage.
28:31
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well then that's what makes it so like
28:35
Speaker 1: extra sad that she essentially was exiled from a police
28:40
Speaker 1: She was so well, uved and I've built up um
28:43
Speaker 1: all these friends and then UM for her funeral to
28:48
Speaker 1: be unattended. That's that's so Sadh. Yeah, I think that. Yeah,
28:54
Speaker 1: like you said, Samantha, it just it doesn't make any
28:57
Speaker 1: sense to pull somebody, I mean out of a community
29:01
Speaker 1: that was contributing so much to that community. Is like,
29:04
Speaker 1: what is this going to do for you? But that's
29:06
Speaker 1: how anti transness works, That's how anti blackness works, UM,
29:11
Speaker 1: and all of those things that are wrapped up in
29:13
Speaker 1: in the life and story of Lucy hicks Anderson that
29:16
Speaker 1: you know there was and then the issue of morality
29:19
Speaker 1: on top of that in terms of her being along
29:22
Speaker 1: with with and obviously all the things of the unnamed
29:25
Speaker 1: sex workers because I didn't see any names of the
29:27
Speaker 1: sex workers who were also involved in in all of
29:33
Speaker 1: the rates that were happening. But I think it's worthy
29:36
Speaker 1: to call out just that, you know, there were a
29:37
Speaker 1: lot of other people who are also implicated in the
29:41
Speaker 1: things that were happening along with Lucy hicks Anderson. But yeah,
29:45
Speaker 1: it's just indicative and the thing that's still happening today
29:48
Speaker 1: when it comes to the way that trans black people
29:51
Speaker 1: are treated, UM and it's like, you know, frustrating to
29:57
Speaker 1: see that Lucy Hicks Anderson was born in eight teen
30:00
Speaker 1: eight six, like that was a long time ago. Um,
30:03
Speaker 1: she operated during Prohibition, which like feels so long ago
30:06
Speaker 1: for us. It was it was, you know, over the
30:09
Speaker 1: whole course of history, not super long, but I mean,
30:12
Speaker 1: you know, we're so removed from from that kind of
30:15
Speaker 1: time right now. So yeah, it is frustrating in so
30:19
Speaker 1: many ways to see what Lucy hicks Anderson had to
30:22
Speaker 1: go through. Um And even though a lot of her
30:24
Speaker 1: story isn't told through her eyes and through the eyes
30:27
Speaker 1: of the people who are writing these articles, it is
30:30
Speaker 1: refreshing to be able to kind of get a chance
30:36
Speaker 1: to form this image of a person, this full round character,
30:41
Speaker 1: because I think so often, um, we don't get that
30:45
Speaker 1: opportunity to see a person as round and as dynamic
30:49
Speaker 1: as Lucy hicks Anderson has been presented. Like I was
30:52
Speaker 1: saying earlier in that Time Magazine article is like y'all
30:55
Speaker 1: try to make her flat, but guess what y'all did
30:58
Speaker 1: the opposite, Like y'all y'all didn't take her personality away
31:01
Speaker 1: from her, Like y'all still afforded her that And I
31:03
Speaker 1: can see that through the article, no matter what y'all
31:05
Speaker 1: were trying to do. And you know, I appreciate getting
31:11
Speaker 1: the opportunity to at least try to be able to
31:14
Speaker 1: imagine Lucy Hicks Anderson in this more expansive way where, um,
31:18
Speaker 1: I see that y'all were trying to kind of make
31:21
Speaker 1: fun of her in these articles. The way y'all talked
31:24
Speaker 1: about how she she walked in with her wigs on
31:26
Speaker 1: and her her quote unquote women's suits on, and the
31:30
Speaker 1: way that she spoke about her husband, Ruben and like
31:33
Speaker 1: saying yeah, like we're good. And when they found out
31:36
Speaker 1: that she had been she actually had been married before Ruben,
31:39
Speaker 1: that was a whole other thing, you know. They were like, oh,
31:41
Speaker 1: like you were divorced for somebody help. Yeah. So they
31:45
Speaker 1: did a lot to try to tear her down, But
31:47
Speaker 1: I was still able to see her as this, this
31:50
Speaker 1: fool person, this whole um human being, I think, and
31:54
Speaker 1: and looking back at the documentation of her, and I am,
31:59
Speaker 1: you know, happy that we were able to to bring
32:02
Speaker 1: these stories some light today. Yes, it yeah, And I
32:08
Speaker 1: just keep thinking because it's very small bit of what
32:10
Speaker 1: we have in her history. As you were saying, Um,
32:12
Speaker 1: and it's very limited through the articles, but yeah, everything
32:15
Speaker 1: you read, every time I was jumped from one thing
32:17
Speaker 1: to another. It was just pretty much how she kept
32:20
Speaker 1: pushing and did bigger like whether it's you know, saying
32:24
Speaker 1: at a young age, no, I'm a girl and the
32:26
Speaker 1: doctor being like, yeah, you are to coming out at
32:29
Speaker 1: fifteen making our own living, to being able to pay
32:32
Speaker 1: fifty dollars for a home and business and she's just
32:35
Speaker 1: doing it. And it's like, um, there's really not much
32:38
Speaker 1: to be said other than she's a success in the
32:40
Speaker 1: story and she made sure that people need well and
32:43
Speaker 1: you I guess history made sure that we knew she
32:45
Speaker 1: was successful. And then that's it, and that's what she
32:48
Speaker 1: got outed by. Yeah. Yeah. Um it's like I'm not
32:56
Speaker 1: I'm not being fooled. No, no, um it is. I
33:02
Speaker 1: mean it's terribly terribly frustrating and sad, but also kind
33:09
Speaker 1: of like you're saying you've it's almost funny because it's
33:12
Speaker 1: like you're saying all of these nice things, like if
33:16
Speaker 1: you're just giving me these sort of facts and they
33:18
Speaker 1: all sound really good, like mm hmm, it's like they've
33:24
Speaker 1: just they were missing the whole point. Um, and it
33:29
Speaker 1: it almost becomes a joke on them, and of course
33:33
Speaker 1: the power dynamics make it a dangerous thing. Um, and
33:39
Speaker 1: one that yeah, we're still seeing today, so there is
33:44
Speaker 1: that that layer to it. But yeah, I mean, especially
33:49
Speaker 1: with our modern eyes, I was reading a lot of
33:52
Speaker 1: these articles like this person sounds amazing, but I can
33:55
Speaker 1: tell you're trying to convince me that they're not. Oh yeah,
34:00
Speaker 1: want of my friends with her. She's the connection that
34:02
Speaker 1: I would have wanted to have right at that point
34:05
Speaker 1: in time. Ye. I we need the dinner party really
34:08
Speaker 1: to get her out of jail because she was so essential. Yeah. Yeah,
34:16
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to, Um, I think I know
34:18
Speaker 1: that the documentary you were talking about, the short documentary. Um,
34:22
Speaker 1: we've been around dot com, yes, yes, yeah, we've been around. Yeah.
34:27
Speaker 1: I just wanted to, you know, call attention to that.
34:30
Speaker 1: Thank you as always for for stopping by Eve's. UM,
34:35
Speaker 1: always a pleasure, and we really appreciate you bringing these stories.
34:39
Speaker 1: UM legitimately excited every time to figure to learn who
34:44
Speaker 1: you are spotlighting. UM. So thank you, thank you, thank you.
34:52
Speaker 1: Where can the listeners find you? Um? So y'all can
34:57
Speaker 1: find me at Eve's. Jeff co on Twitter. You can
34:59
Speaker 1: find me not apologizing on Instagram. I am no longer
35:03
Speaker 1: the host of This Day in History Class, but there's
35:06
Speaker 1: a huge backlog of episodes for the show, So if
35:09
Speaker 1: you still want to hear my voice on the show, UM,
35:11
Speaker 1: you can listen to This Day in History Class. UM.
35:14
Speaker 1: You can also listen to Unpopular and That's what I got.
35:18
Speaker 1: Y'all awesome, awesome. Definitely go check Eve's out listeners. She's amazing. UM.
35:25
Speaker 1: You can also contact us if you want. Yes, that's right,
35:29
Speaker 1: we have an email address. It is Stuff Media, mom
35:34
Speaker 1: Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can also find
35:37
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at stuff Whatever told You are on
35:40
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our
35:42
Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks and thanks to you for
35:47
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