Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / 2027 Cardinals Breakout Candidates, Injury Concerns For Masyn Winn? World Series Predictions

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2027 Cardinals Breakout Candidates, Injury Concerns For Masyn Winn? World Series Predictions · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory. Jim
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Hayes with Kyle Gibson. Lance Lynn is celebrating his daughter's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: birthday today, so he gets a hall pass. We have
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: a lot to talk about, but before we get started,
• 0:23
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• 0:27
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• 0:31
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• 0:34
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• 0:47
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• 0:55
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• 0:58
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• 1:01
  Speaker 1: ahead and shop Cardinal's Territory. Well, Kyle... World Series about
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to get started. We'll talk about that. But before we
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: get to that, I was thinking about the Cardinals and
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about what's ahead. Now, we saw some
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: guys take a step forward, get to the next level
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: last year as the Cardinals rebuild and figure out who
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: goes where. But then I was thinking, who's the next
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: guy to break out? Who's the next young guy or
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: semi-young guy that's going to take it to the next
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: level and break out. I'm going to go first because
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I got a guy, Benafana is quiet, not great in
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the clubhouse to get sound from, but a really good dude.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: You know him. But Kyle Leahy, 29 years old, right?
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: 17th round pick out of Colorado Mesa University. He was
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: great in the bullpen. And he said, I want to start.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: And they said, okay, we'll give you a chance to start.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And so last year was his first full season as
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a starter, and he was really good, 10-5, 3.66 ERA,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I think 2.2 war. Very good. Numbers across the board, outstanding.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: And that's even with the end of the season where
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: they were protecting his innings, finished at 140, but they
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: were letting him start for an inning or two, and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that kind of can mess with a starting pitcher. But
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: here's the thing that I like about him. Six pitches, right?
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And according to his catchers, he tunnels them all beautifully, which,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: as you know, is very important. I think he's going
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: to be a 15-game winner. I say that because, first
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: of all, the adjustment to becoming a major league starter,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: his first season, his first six starts, I should say,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: 5.22 ERA. After that, he was much better as he
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: made his adjustments and got comfortable in the starting rotation.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: didn't throw his fastball as much as a season went along,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: went to his breaking stuff. But again, a guy with
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: six pitches, a guy who makes them all come from
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the same tunnel and all of a sudden they go
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in different directions. It's 29 years old. I think this
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: guy is going to take a big jump next year.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Your thoughts on that?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I, I mean, I didn't know some of the
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: things that you just brought up about fastball usage and, and,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: certain things like that. And all of that kind of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: makes sense, you know, transitioning from the bullpen to a starter. Um,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: not many starters go out there and just throw heaters
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: and have a lot of success. Uh, you gotta have
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: a really special heater or some kind of breaking ball,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: breaking pitch that the hitters are very, very worried about
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: in order.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: To do that.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Um, his tunneling with six pitches makes total sense here, right? Like, um,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: not many guys can just throw everything down the middle
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and let it break away from the middle. Um, he's
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: a guy with six of them that probably can throw
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: to a half of the plate and let that work. Um,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: he has a good idea with, with how smart he
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: is about, okay, which pitches work off each other. Uh,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: and dusty Blake and the staff there is going to
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: keep helping him with that as well. Um, but I
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: do think that there is a level of, um, discomfort
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: that hitters feel when they're in the box knowing that
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: you know maybe he doesn't use all six pitches to
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: both both handed hitters right but we'll say he uses
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: four of the six to righties there is some discomfort
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: that sets in when you're trying to get your a
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: swing off and you don't know which of the four
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: pitches sometimes six pitches you're going to see really limits
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: your ability as a hitter to hone in on one
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: side of the plate one speed one break and to
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: get your best swing off. And I think that's why
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: you see a low homer count. I think that's why
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: you see a low batting average for the most part. Now, granted, 270, okay,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: maybe that's not a low batting average because of the
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: league average going down, but that could have been some
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: balls in play unlucky. But limits walks, still has good
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: strikeout numbers that he had in the bullpen. So yeah,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I agree. I think he's a guy that can take
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: the next step for sure. I feel like this was
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: a really good coming out season for Leahy in the rotation. And,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: you know, if he's somebody that can sustain this and
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: keep going and keep making adjustments, which he will have
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to do, you know, the Cardinals really found something with
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: making this move and hats off to the staff and
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: hats off to Kyle being willing to, you know, take
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: the steps to make this happen.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Two things that really impressed me. One, he said his
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: arm feels great. He was never worried about Innings pitch,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: he said he's got one of those rubber arms. Like
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: when he was in the bullpen, he'd be like, pitch
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: me three days in a row, I'm fine. But when
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: they said, nope, we're going to cut you off at 140.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: So these last starts, you're going to prepare as a starter.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be the most comfortable thing. And
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it's a weird adjustment. Like he said after one start,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: he's like, I don't even know how to assess it
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: because I pitched two innings. But here's what he said.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: He said, these guys got me to this point. These
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: guys told me everything, how to eat, right? And he's
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: talking about the other starters, you know, that help him
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: along too, how to eat, how to sleep, you know,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: how to prepare. And so I'm not going to question
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: anything now because they got to this point. I just
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: think this guy is set up for success. Who do
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: you have as your guy who's going to break out
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: in a big way?
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if the Cardinals want to take the
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: next step and– The kind of– I'm not going to
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: say the elephant in the room, but the decision that's
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: got to be made here by the front office is
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: when is this team ready. Players can force your hand.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Players can make the front office accelerate a timeline if
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: they can really show that this team is ready. And
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I think you have multiple young guys here that can
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: really put a lot of confidence and really– help Heim
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and the front office make this decision. So for me,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go with Baez. I think, um, his
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: last month, you know, he obviously, he had the incredible debut,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: the historic debut. Um, and then he really kind of
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: went cold a little bit. And I think some people
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: were just talking, okay, like, you know, maybe it's not
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: consistent at bats. It's, you know, um, kind of making
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the adjustment, you know, he ended up with a hundred
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: at bats his month of September. Um, probably ranks up
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: there with some of the top national league players in
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: the entire month. Uh, we're looking at it right there
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: with a 300 batting average and an eight 90 OPS.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Now he didn't have all the at-bats because, uh, you know, he,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I think they were trying to limit his at-bats a
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: little bit, but wow, what a way to finish, uh,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: the first two months of your career. Um, and, and
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: really kind of catapult you here, you know, going into
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: next year. So, um, I don't know if Baez is
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: a 300 hitter at the big leagues. If he is,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: then this is an incredible player that the Cardinals just,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: you know, set themselves up for, you know, a perennial all-star.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: But this would be my guy. I think Baez, Bernal,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: those two guys can really accelerate this timeline a little bit.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And if I'm Heimblum, you know, yeah, you got Burley.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I think you know what Burley is. He's going to
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: be a back of the baseball card player now, you know,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: really good OPS and a possible all-star every year. And
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: you have Weatherhold and Mason, who you think are pretty consistent.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: You're looking for a couple of these players here to
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: go along with Walker to see if this timeline is ready.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And so I'm going to go with Baez.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: I like that. He's 23 years old. He hit a
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: total of 41 homers last year between AAA and the
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: big leagues. And as you point out, had the great
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: debut and a lot of strikeouts, but He cut down
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: on the strikeouts. And as you mentioned, that last month
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: hit 300 with much better at-bats. I also like the fact,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: and it becomes cliche after a while, because every major
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: leaguer now has to work. If you don't work, unless you're, like,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: totally gifted, right, you're going to be exposed. And this
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: guy is out there every day working on his outfield skills. Like,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: sometimes by himself, having someone throw, you know, John Jay
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: or someone, comes in just drenched in sweat's This guy
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: wants it. This guy's hungry. And I think that's a
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: pretty great selection on your part. Because I think that, again,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: you know, some guys take time to adjust in the minors,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: younger players. And he had some decent power numbers, but
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: not like he had last year. He found something. And
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I think the Cardinals can tap into that and make
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: him a more well-rounded hitter while also having the power numbers, too. Because...
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: that's a lot.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with this rotation in the state that it's in,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and assuming they add a bullpen guy or two, even
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: if you're a team that is outside the playoffs looking in,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: you add a reliever, you add a couple of veterans to...
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: If nothing else, trade at the deadline, right? You pay
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: for the ability to trade somebody and get prospects. If
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: we look at this team and the direction their pitching
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: is going, hats off to the staff, once again, how
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: they're doing the pitching. They're a bat or two away
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: from really, I feel like, having enough bats in the
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: lineup to weather some slumps. We had times where Burley
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: went cold, Mason went cold, Walker went cold. you know,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Weatherholt went through the injury a little bit. The more
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: bats you have, you can kind of weather that storm.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And I think if their offense is a tick better
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: in the second half, they're probably not the fourth or
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: fifth team out of the wild card. They're probably the
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: first or second team out of the wild card. And
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I think it's something that can, if you are able
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: to improve internally on the offensive side of the game,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I think you're looking at a team that can really
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: push this from office and say, Hey, take a chance
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: on us. We're ready for the next few years and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: we want some playoff experience to go with it because
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I know Yvonne talked about being a World Series team.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Very rarely do you see a team go from not
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: in the playoffs and not much World Series pedigree to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: World Series. They need a couple stepping stones on the
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: way to feel what the playoffs are like and to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: get that adrenaline and to be able to adjust when
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: the time comes.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: So you're talking about guys that are pushing to shorten
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: that timetable. To get to where they want to be.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: So the other thing that I was thinking about, because
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you have to have the positive and the negative, and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: of course the negative sells on social media. So let's
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: throw some negatives out there. Biggest concern going forward. And
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I want to count this. I want to count this
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: carefully because my concern is Mason Wynn. Now, let me
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: explain why. I'm a Mason Wynn guy. I think this
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: guy is going to be an all-star. I think this
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: guy is going to hit. And when I think about
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals' future, I think about Mason Wynn and I
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: think about Weatherholt up the middle, and that makes me
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: think they're on the right track, okay? Defensively, Mason Wynn,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: and I said this in one of the podcasts and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: took some blowback and I'll explain it, he has made
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: some plays that I don't think Ozzie Smith would make. Now,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying Wynn is Ozzie. What I'm saying is
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: he covers a lot of ground. And with that arm,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: he can make plays that Ozzie might not have been
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: able to make. That's just praise for Wynn. And I
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: think he will hit. Here's where I'm concerned. Injuries. Because
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: to me, he's such an important piece for the Cardinals.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Mason Wynn. And he's had injuries. He's had issues with
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: both knees. I'm not counting the thumb that he that
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: he had last year, because that's jamming it, sliding it
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to a base. I'm talking about things that might pop
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: up again. The two knee things, and he's had a
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: back thing. And this is a young man who I
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: know when his first knee issue came up, he just
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: played through it. He's tough. He's going to play through everything.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: And I wonder, did that sort of compromise what he
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: could do offensively at times during the year? Because I
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: think at some point, he's going to be a gold
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: glover and a guy who hits and maybe 15, 20
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: homers and gets on base and steals bases. I think
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that's the full package for when we haven't really seen
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: that yet. And I wonder with the back, the knees,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I just want this guy to be healthy because he's
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: so important. And that's the piece that concerns me. Your thoughts.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I think, I think all those are good points. And
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I think you're, you're looking at a player that is
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: relying on his athleticism to make him the special player
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: that he is. And we've seen flashes on the offensive
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: and the defensive side. So it's not like this is
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: a player where we've never seen him hit over an
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: extended period of time, right? We've seen Mason be an
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: above-average offensive player. So I think everybody knows he can.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And we've seen players like, you know, Judge go through
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: a calf strain and was not the same player. Knees
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: are absolutely, you know, troubling, not just because of, you know,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Is he going to be hurt again? But, I mean, yeah,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I think it affects your swing. Backs are a big one,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: defense and hitting. I mean, I think we see a
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: lot more strikeouts, at least I'm not going to say
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: a lot more because I don't know his numbers from
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: the last couple years. But I think if you talk
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: to Mason, he's not going to want to see over
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: 100 strikeouts and only 136 games. That's a number I
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: think if that number can come down, then his production
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: automatically goes up. Mason is fast enough to get more
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: infield singles. He's fast enough to get on base, put
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: pressure on the defense. Maybe some of those are getting
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: on base by an error. But then, like you said,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: he turns it into a stolen base. He scores from
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: first on a double. There's a lot of other sides
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: to Mason's game that makes him a really good player. So, yeah,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I think his health is an important one because you
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: have J.J. and him up the middle. And when those
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: two are healthy, you have probably, I don't know, I
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: hate saying the best at something when I don't know
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the rest of the league. But top five up the
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: middle defense in the entire league, possibly the best. JJ's
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: shown flashes of well above average offense. And if Mason
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: can be above average offense, then you're looking at the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: middle of the diamond all the way from catcher, We'll
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: see how center field shakes out. You're looking at all
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: the way up the middle of the diamond, which are
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: normally defensive positions, being able to do both offense and defense. And, man,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: what a foundation for the years to come if that
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: can be the case. J.J.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Had a wrist thing that probably impacted his offensive numbers.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Because he was playing with that before he went on
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the aisle. And Mason, again, we've seen him do it.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I think he's a guy that once he's able to
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: go the other way, more then they'll come inside a
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: little more and they'll hit hit for some power some
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: but you have a guy's hands are fast enough absolutely
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and you have a guy hitting 240 250 with that
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: kind of defense if everything else is that you'll take
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: it i just think there's more upside so we want
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to keep that guy healthy what is your concern about
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: the cardinals going forward.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I think that um you know obviously they were the
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: youngest or one of the youngest teams in the big
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: leagues this year um their expiring contracts or their older
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: players are not necessarily in line to come back. And
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I think for me, this is a team, like I
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: just said a few minutes ago, this is a team
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: that showed last year that they could hang in the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: playoff hunt for a long time. And I think the
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: experience I got this year, adding Baez for a full year,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: adding Bernal for a full year, I think you have
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a team that is, okay, are we ready to win
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: a hundred games and push the Brewers to the division
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: or Probably a stretch. Is this team ready to sneak
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: into the wild card and push the top six teams
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: in the National League? Yeah, I think so. My concern
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: is if there is not a few veterans added or retained,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I think the cold spells, the slumps, the intangible parts
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: of that locker room and on field that can never
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: be quantified and get glossed over by analytics departments, and
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: drive fans crazy, even talking about it, veteran leadership, that
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: would be my concern going into next year, especially with
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: a possible disrupted offseason here with the CBA. I hope
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: it goes smooth. I don't like to play doomsday with
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: the CBA. I hope it gets figured out and we're
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: going to have a normal offseason as possible. But I
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: think an offseason where players are not signing– and teams
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: are not figuring out that probably hurts a team like
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals trying to get some veteran presence on this
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: team to help these young guys keep getting better. So
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: that would be my concern is finding those right. I'll
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: say three guys, um, finding those right three veterans to
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: help the young guys that are becoming leaders, even if
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: it's a backseat, right? Like, um, you know, I try
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: to not talk about positive side of what I did
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: on my career very much, but like, I feel like
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: James McCann, Adam Frazier and myself going to Baltimore were
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: probably strategic on field and off field signings. And I
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: think if you can place veterans in certain spots and, and,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and Kittredge was another guy that year. Uh, if you
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: can place veterans in certain, in certain parts of the field,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: you can weather storms, um, Because when Pooh hits the fan,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: young guys look to the leaders and young guys look
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: to veterans like, all right, how do I react to this?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And I think it's an important thing for development on
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: and off the field.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: All right. That's a good point. Let me just play
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: devil's advocate real quick. I look at a guy like Burley.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I look like a guy like Mason. When they've been
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: around long enough, they're not veteran. per se, but they've
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: been around the organization. They've seen some ups and some
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: downs last year. Let's face it. There were some downs
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and they bounced right back. And then at the end,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I think there was a collective exhale. They ran out
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: of gas a little bit, but they were able to
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: push through. some ups and downs, and I wonder if
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: those guys are now the veterans that they lean on,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: or do you have to go off the ranch and
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: bring in a veteran or two?
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think you have to. I just
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: think that, I don't know, I just would. I think
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: it's important to have experience and people from outside the
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: organization to be able to come in and, you know,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: be a part of something and, and add their two
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: cents into it really. Um, do I think they have
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: really good veteran, very, very good leadership in this locker room? Yeah,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I do. Um, but I also think, you know, that
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Baltimore team in 23, Adley Rutschman and Gunnar Henderson, even
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: those guys were young, they were great leaders and they're
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: even better leaders now, even though Adley's not there. Um,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So did they have to add veteran guys for leadership?
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: No.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: And I think there were times where I was more
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: of a lead by example guy. I wasn't necessarily always
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the voice in that locker room. There were times where
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: that was expected of me and times where I just
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: let these guys, hey, I'm here to pitch every five
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: days and to be a sounding board possibly and to
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: help in certain ways, right? So do I think Riley
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: O'Brien is a veteran down in that bullpen that can
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: handle that? Yes, 100%. Does it help if you have
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: two of those guys? Yes, I think it does.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: All right, that's a good point. And look, I know
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: you were a valuable addition to any roster, but certainly
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: veteran wisdom does help. You are watching Cardinal Territory on
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network. We'll be right back.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: It's that time of year where all the sports are
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: pretty much going right now from the baseball playoffs, which
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: obviously on foul territory, we love. NCAA football, there's huge
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: games this weekend, conference games. There's NBA starting, NHL is going,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: and the NFL is in full swing right now. So
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: if I need to get tickets because I go everywhere
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: and I go to a lot of games, I use SeatGeek.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: I don't need to go everywhere. I just need to
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: go to the World Series. Maybe I got to go
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: see LeBron play too. So I just scroll across. I
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: figure out where the best place to watch the game is.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: SeatGeek's got me.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Red dot, bad deal, they think. Green dot, great deal.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: But you get to choose.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: That's the one great thing about SeatGeek. And of course,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: we have a code. Kratz and I have a code
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: for you. You can use code TERRITORY10 for 10% off
• 22:48
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• 22:51
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• 22:55
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• 22:57
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• 23:00
  Speaker 3: you can use it later.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: So the World Series is all set up. The Rays
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: got there, and there was a little drama along the way, right?
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Hold on.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: First off, first off, first off, I'm interrupting your question.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: This would be great if George, for the beginning, can
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: just go ahead and put Brewers-Rays in the World Series
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: just like Kyle Gibson predicted. Can we do something like
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: that maybe? Because I feel like if we roll the tape,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: we might be able to see that that's how my
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: bracket worked out. I can't remember, though. I could be wrong.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I think, like Lance said, this is going to be awesome.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: If Milwaukee, who sits at number 19, and the Rays,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: who sit at number 28, two of the best teams
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: in the game, if they make it to the World Series.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, Jim. No, I think you're probably right. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: maybe we'll give you like a little cookie. Here's a cookie.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Put a little cookie drop in. We'll see what George
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: can do. But I wanted to talk about this Junior Caminero, right?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Two-run homer, bottom of the seventh in game six. Give
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: him some space so they were headed to the World Series.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And he celebrated the moment, okay? And maybe he celebrated
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: too much. 38.66 seconds, rounding the bases. Second slowest home
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: run trot. in StatCast history. I think he also has
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the number one slowest try. Now, some people were going
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: ballistic that this guy took his time rounding the bases.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: As a fan, I love it. I say, let the
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: players play, let them have fun. I think it's fun.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: But I also realize it's a player's game. It's your
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: guy's sport. I say you because you're a former player.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: And then I thought, I got two old school guys
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: on the podcast. Now Lance can't be here because of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: his daughter's birthday, but you're an old school guy. And
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I was like, I can't wait to get their reaction
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to that and how they would handle it. So my friend,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: the floor is yours. How would you handle junior?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I think if, as after watching the video, cause
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't see the whole thing in real time. All right.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: The first 70 feet of his home run trot was
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: about normal pace.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: And then he took about five seconds to look at
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: the dugout. Big homer. I understand. All right. He's not
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: looking at any other of the other team's players, by
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the way.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Which I think is an important part of this in
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: my mind. Then from first to third, really a normal truck. Okay.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Like speeds going great. And then he gets halfway to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: home and, you know, I'm sure there's a relationship there
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: with a Rosarena. Obviously he did the Rosarena, you know,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: arms cross stare, which was another, four seconds added. So
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: if we take the two stops out of this, he's
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: probably about normal 29 seconds, uh, 28 seconds. Um, so,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know that it was that terrible,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: but I also think it was interesting. I saw a graphic, uh,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: showing the eight longest home run trots and stack has
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: started and they're all in 20, 26 playoffs or at
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the end of the season. So I just think we
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: are at a showman type, uh, time. in baseball. I
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: don't think it's good or bad. I don't think it's
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: a negative. I think fans and players want to be
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: able to express themselves. I bring up not looking at
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the other team because I do think there is something,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and I see it in my son's team, even 10U.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I do think there is something to be said about
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: celebrating with your team versus being unsportsmanlike and pushing things
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: into the face of the other team. Um, I think
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: there is a way to have fun and to show
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: your personality and to also be humble at the same
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: time and also respect the fact that maybe the next
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: at bat or the next game, you're going to be
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: on the other end of this. And, um, it allows
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: pitchers to take very much advantage, uh, if you're doing
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: it the wrong way and to, to exploit their excitement
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: and their personality. Um, To be clear, I don't think
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Junior Caminero or any of these guys that have taken
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: long home run trots have done that this postseason. I
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: think they've been in big spots. The adrenaline is so high.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: You saw Caminero enjoying it with his teammates. I think
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: it's a great way to do it. But I've seen,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: even in, like I mentioned, my son's team, I've even
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: seen just kids not necessarily going towards the other dugout,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: but I hear more and more of not just the
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: good game handshakes anymore, more chatter from the dugout, yelling
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: at the pitcher being mid or being whatever. It's like, dude,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: these kids are 9 and 10, and I just hope
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that the showmanship at the higher levels is not taken
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: by kids to be a negative toward the other team,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: but a positive with your team. because I think that's
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: the best way to enjoy this game and still be
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: able to understand this game is going to humble you
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: at some point. Can you take both sides of it?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: All right, a couple things. One, that's on the coach, okay?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: My kid's played youth baseball for years now. His coaches
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: have done a good job of making sure the chatter
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: from the dugout doesn't go too far and there's no
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Cadillac-ing around the bases if his team would ever hit
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: a home run. And also, like I tell my kid,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: mound presence is important. Like, it makes me crazy when
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: a pitcher has a shortstop make an error behind him
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: or a second baseman and rolls his eyes and gives
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: him a look. So my kid's team has done a
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: good job. That's on the coaches to promote good behavior.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: The other thing you said, like you were like, well,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: if you take away this part of Junior's home run,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: that's like when a football coach says, well, If you
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: take away those two picks and that outburst they had
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: in the second quarter, we'd have won that game. Or
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: a pitcher that says, well, I only had a bad
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: third and sixth inning. That's all part of it. So
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I want you, you're podcast Kyle now. I want you
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: to go back to starting pitcher Kyle in the dugout,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: watching someone do that. Understanding this might be different because
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: it's a postseason and they just punched their ticket to
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: the World Series. Or maybe channel Lance. What do you
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: think the old school guy, the old school pitcher would
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: say about that sort of home run try?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Lance would be excited if I used a couple four-letter
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: words to make up for his absence, but I will not.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I think the starting pitcher in me if I saw
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: that and reacted negatively, I think it would be as
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: much thinking, I cannot believe I just allowed this to happen, right?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that's really a lot of the
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: in-the-moment frustration that happens with a pitcher when a guy
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: is pimping a home run. It's like, man, I just
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: made a bad pitch and allowed a big moment to happen,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: and the adrenaline and the frustration kind of kicks in,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: and that's why it seems like you're frustrated at the
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: other player. But honestly... I think that, once again, if
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: I've seen– I can't remember who it was. Oh, maybe
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Josh Naylor, you know, going around the bases and rocking
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: the baby, like calling the pitcher his– you know, being
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: his daddy. Stuff like that to me is just– that
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: is the stuff that would probably frustrate me more. And
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know Josh. I'm not saying he's a bad guy.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Just like I'm trying to think of an instance where
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: a player specifically put it in the face of the
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: pitcher maybe there's some history with that pitcher too so
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know but I think like those are the
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: instances that would frustrate me more or if Cam Monero
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: is rounding you know first to second base and is
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: looking at my second baseman in shortstop and is making
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: a point to to get in their face that would
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: frustrate me more celebrating with their teammates in that moment
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I've been on the other side of that you know
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: I haven't been in the dugout but I've been in
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Philly when we have a bat slam and we have
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: long walks around the bases from home to first when
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: you hit a big homer. And like I said, I
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: think that's where when you're celebrating with your team, most
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: players have a level head. And, yeah, I'd be upset
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: that I gave up a homer, but I think you
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: can't be that upset when he's doing it with his
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: teammates and he's doing it the right way.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: All right, last thing. World Series, Brewers, 103 wins, Rays 0. 98.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: These are two of the have-nots in Major League Baseball,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: both on the lower half of salary structure raise, I
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: think bottom five. You were the guy that said these
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: two teams would get there. So give me who you're
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: picking and why.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Man, you did not give me this in our short
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and brief production text message, but I should have expected
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: it with it starting tomorrow. I wish I could roll
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: back and remember who I picked. I think I picked
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: the Rays. And I'm going to stay with the Rays.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And I think it is going to be a longer series.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I think these two teams are matched up well. And
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I could see it. I guess I could see it
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: going five games and the Rays winning it when they
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: get back to Tampa. I think that's probably the long shot.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to go. I want to see seven games.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: So let's go to seven games, and I've got the
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Rays winning. And I think if Yandy, Diaz, and Caminero
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: stay hot, that offense can do a lot, a lot
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: of damage because obviously we know they can get on
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: base and wreak havoc.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I think their.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Bullpen– I saw somebody talking about their bullpen struggles. That
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: is a non-issue for me. I think that bullpen is fine.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I think they have a lot of arms that can
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: get a lot of outs. you know, people want to
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: bring up Ian Seymour. He struggled in that last game.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: That guy's an absolute stud. Hadn't hardly given up any
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: hits before having three rough batters. Um, but man, the
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Brewers are good too. I'm really excited that it's the
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: two best teams from each league. Not often does that
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: happen like that. Um, but we're going to see two
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: teams that have done it the right way all year
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: long and won the most games over 162 and have
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: been playing the best in the post season. And, uh,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: they're going to duke it out and play some old-style baseball,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: which they hit homers too. That's where I don't– I
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: understand they use analytics and they do things a little
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: bit different with stealing and bunts and defense, but man alive,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: these two teams can slug too. So it's two very
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: well-rounded teams. Who do you got, Jim?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I got Brewers in six. Here's why. First of all,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: William Contreras is hot, and that guy's deadly when he's hot.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: The Brewers do something a lot of teams don't seem
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: to do. They hit with runners in scoring position. Holy cow.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I like that. I like that ball. I like that
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: ball club. It's going to be bullpen. It always comes
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: down to bullpen and the Brewers bullpen is really good.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: So I go Brewers in six. And the nice thing
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: is we pick different teams. So one of us will
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: come out looking smart, probably, but we'll have to see.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory. Kyle,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: you were great. We'll see you next time on the
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: next edition. Hopefully that one won't suck.