Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Brandon Holthaus: Connecting Dots From Weak Pulpits To Worldly Perversions

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Brandon Holthaus: Connecting Dots From Weak Pulpits To Worldly Perversions · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hey friends, thank you so much for tuning in.
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  We are blessed to have Pastor Brandon Holthouse back with us and you can get info on his
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  church at rockharborchurch.net and also his ministry tip of the spear ministry dot com over
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  on YouTube.
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  He's got the channel there.
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  And by the way, if you do, the first one I want you to check out is the interview he did
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  with Frank Turic about a week or a week and a half ago, phenomenal Frank Turic dismantles
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  cultures biggest lies.
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  That was an excellent interview, so edifying and, uh, Brandon, thank you for all you're
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  doing.
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  Welcome back.
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  Hey, good to be with you, David.
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  Always a pleasure, my friend.
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  Yeah, it wasn't a cool.
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  I mean, I haven't talked to Frank in years, but I've got him coming up next month again.
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  But he's great.
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  He's great.
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  Oh, yes.
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  It's just full of information.
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  I love it, man.
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  And he's got all those angles that, you know, apologists have.
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  So yeah, he was a blessing.
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  He's been beaten this drum for a long, long, long time.
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  I remember almost 15 years ago or more, I remember something he said that someone's talking
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  about political Christians and politics, said someone's legislation, someone's morality
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  will be legislated is going to be the left or it's going to be a Christian or a biblical
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  worldview or godly legislation.
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  So let's jump right in here.
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  You were up in California.
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  The bill was AB 495, a lot of pastors, including yourself, Jack Hibbs and others that have platforms
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  that were trying to warn people, particularly in California about this danger.
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  And then there was an event not surprising, a fair turnout, but not that many church leaders
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  because they think, you know, we shouldn't be involved in politics.
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  And then we'll talk about this other, just the IRS statement later, but let's talk about
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  this bill and what happened there at the state capital.
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  Yeah, it's almost hard to imagine that this is even happening, but this bill 495, AB,
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  is it was meant, it's always veiled in this morality that we're going to protect illegal aliens
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  children who get caught by eyes and deported and so this will give somebody here in California
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  the ability to sign an affidavit and take custody of the child.
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  The problem with the bill is the way it's written, it's open ended, that means that anyone could
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  do something like this. And so this is why this is called a groomers bill or it's a pedophilers
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  dream bill come true because you could basically go to the state of California, get an affidavit,
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  not have to show any identification whatsoever and take custody of a child or a teenager
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  if they didn't want to live with their parents or whatnot. And you can see the scenarios
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  that would happen. Let's just say you have a kid that's transitioning to being a boy from a girl
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  and yada yada yada and their parents are not approving of that. Well then some teacher or some groomer
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  could say, well you come live with me, I'll be the custodian of you and you can have your sex change
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  or whatever it might be. And this has been also named a traffickers bill because human trafficking
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  is such a big deal in California and so they could do this to kids to runaways to anybody.
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  And so that's what we went up to Sacramento which is where Satan's throne is right in here in
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  California to protest against this. But this is the kind of stuff that comes in California and
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  people say well that's in California and that's why I don't live there. Hey get a clue it's going
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  to spread all over. The other states will get this idea and they will take it as well. So this is
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  a battle for parental rights man. And so this is important. And so what the disappointing thing was
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  David is yeah Jack myself and a good cluster of pastors that are typically always there in the
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  fight were there in Sacramento. But most of this was grassroots. It wasn't led by pastors. In fact
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  there was hardly any churches here in town. I think maybe two in town that joined us up there.
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  But most of the people that checked out they're not involved and I want to say you're going to wake
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  up one day and your whole world is going to be rearranged and why? Because you didn't fight
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  when you should have. And so anyway this is still on the front burner and churches are nowhere to
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  be found. And not surprising but let's now transition slightly transition no pun intended.
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  But that came out that came out the way it did. Let's talk about the IRS and
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  sure we can touch on the Johnson amendment. But what happened recently shouldn't even be a
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  headline under the radar it floated because the media didn't want to touch it most of them.
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  That the IRS doesn't have any say in whether a church could endorse a political candidate. Well most
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  people most pastors are going what? No way because they have been unnecessarily self censoring for
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  decades. That's right. Since the unconstitutional Johnson amendment in 1954. And that you
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  pat decades and look at who's been influenced in the culture more. Look at what happened in the
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  60s. God was taken out of school, you know prayer, voluntary prayer. Then we had abortion. That
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  decision that horrific decision by the Supreme Court. And Roe v. Wade and on and on and on and
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  now we've got transgenders and men and boys and girls sports and what could go wrong.
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  But the church has not been talking about these issues and Brandon I know I'm preaching to the
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  choir. I jokingly asked you before we got on the podcast but let's go there. So all this stuff
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  is happening and the church doesn't seem to be the salt and light that it should be. We're not
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  influencing culture and all this other stuff. I wrote a chapter in my latest book called What
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  Would Our Great Grandparents Think? If they could be here for 24 hours and see they would go,
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  what do you mean? I mean, just think of all the major issues and they would be stunned. They
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  would think they're not even on the on planet earth. Your thoughts as a pastor knowing the church's
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  responsibility and how we got to where we are when we're seeing all these ridiculous things in
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  these movements. Yeah. Well, you're making a good point because in July of this year the IRS
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  reversed and said you can't you can endorse a political candidate. So Tater Chip,
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  let her rip. I'm going to go for it because unfortunately, I hate to tell you this,
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  a dirty little secret about ministry. As many pastors have been hiding behind the Johnson
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  Amendment to say they can't talk about politics, which is not what the Johnson Amendment said.
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  He said you couldn't support a political candidate. But anyway, they've been hiding about that.
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  But now, hey, it's over and now you can talk about it. So to speak, not like you couldn't
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  do before, but you can. And you can endorse a candidate. But will we see that? Absolutely not because
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  here's what happened, David. This is what led to this. It's the church growth movement. It's a
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  secret friendly movement that invaded the church 40, 50 years ago. And the idea that came from
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  Peter Drucker and C. Peter Wagner of really was a communist type of strategy to grow a large
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  church. And it was typically a communist technique of gathering a crowd pulling out of the
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  crowd a remnant and doing the power of a short campaign. And so that seeked into the secret
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  friendly movement, the church growth movement and the Rick Warren movement. And churches became
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  more of a we don't talk about anything controversial. Everything's a you know, a pep talk to a rally
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  and we spend 45 minutes in doing music. And by the way, David, that formula works and it does
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  grow your church. But there's no theology. There's no edification whatsoever. You're just big and
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  you have a lot of money coming in. So I hate to say it. It's all about nickels and noses. So will the
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  pastors say anything anymore? No, because they don't want to run off people and they don't want to
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  lose the money that's coming into the coffers to pay for their multi-million dollar buildings.
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  And so it's going to continue, David, because that's how their game is being played.
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  Yep. Well, first of all, anyone can attract a crowd. And when you talk about building
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  numbers, growing numbers, that doesn't mean you are biblical. That means you ought to attract a crowd.
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  You can become like the world to attract the world. But first of all, Pastor Brandon, I want
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  people to understand we haven't talked about this in a while because I wrote my very first book. I
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  wrote on the compromising Christianity, wrote on all these pastors. Thank you for mentioning Rick Warren.
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  Thank you. Yeah. People don't know the history. Oh, man, he's done so much damage to the church
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  in America. But yeah, you're right. We spotted this guy a long time. I used to be a Southern
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  Baptist pastor. We spotted this guy a long time ago in the Southern Baptist. But obviously,
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  he went beyond that. And he was teaching people, basically, a Peter Drucker type of way of preparing.
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  This is why... Explain what that is. Yeah. Well, the power of a short campaign is what was
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  infused into Rick Warren's ministry. And that's actually communistic in nature. What does that mean?
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  Well, it means that people will only have the attention span for maybe four, five weeks. And so
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  what you do is you hit them with that message for four or five weeks, and then you change the
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  message again the next four or five weeks. And you don't go too deep into it. You keep it shallow.
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  And what you're trying to do is draw out from that crowd followers. Now, this is where 40 days of
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  this, 40 days of that, 40 days of prayer, 40 days of the Daniel Diet all came into the package.
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  And Rick just put 40 days of whatever on it. And that 40 was... That's the power of a short
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  campaign that Communists knew. Now, that's different than going through a book of the Bible,
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  exegiting the scripture verse by verse line upon line. When you do a topical thing, you're going
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  to avoid controversial issues that's going to ruffle feathers. Whether that's a discipleship issue,
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  or it's a moral issue. So what the Communists understood is, look, we don't want to offend anybody
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  morally. And so what we want to do is allow them to keep their morals, but let's hook them with
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  other tag lines that you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. You're wonderful, you're this,
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  you're that. And so that then gets communicated in Christianese of God's got a wonderful plan for
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  your life. You're the greatest thing. You don't need to change. You need to stay the way you are
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  and just love yourself and accept yourself. And that's what came out of the messaging. And that
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  became the hook rather than convicting someone of, hey, you know what, you need to step your game
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  up in discipleship. Or, hey, this is going on about prophecy right in your face about a digital
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  currency. Those things were completely off the table in that movement. And that's what Rick pushed.
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  And it worked. And that's why all these churches followed that model. And that's what they're
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  doing today. David, it destroyed everything. I wrote a huge section on the emergent church
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  at that time. This was like, this was like, I mean, in the 80s and 90s, 10 years ago, when I wrote
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  15 years, whatever it was, but I want to mention the corporate model that the church, the secret
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  sense of a church took on. And I'm glad we're going down this. We didn't plan on talking about all
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  this. I'm so glad we are because we're talking about building big churches, but just friends,
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  we've got to get this out of our heads just because the church is big doesn't mean it's doing
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  God's work in God's way and it is biblical. We have to understand that. Anyone can have a put on a
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  show and be entertaining and have a big church. But I want to mention Bill Hybles, Robert Schuler,
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  some of these other guys, big hitters in this movement. So the church, this affects why the church
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  took on more of a corporate identity rather than a ministry. They came, became like corporations.
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  And then of course, you don't want to touch on anything controversial, right? And so it's no
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  wonder any other thoughts on that, Brandon? Absolutely. So then what they did instead of Sunday
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  mornings or even Wednesday nights or whenever you would have church service, instead of it being for
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  the edification of the saints, what they did is they flipped it on the head and made it an
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  evangelism outreach. And again, let me put the evangelism in air quotes because evangelism for them
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  is it's not getting them saved. It's people in the seats and money coming into the coffers. That's
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  what evangelism for them is. But here's the thing. So instead of edifying the saints on Sunday
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  morning and giving deep theological understanding and application for believers to mature,
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  it became a show. And the term is worship attainment. And so you go on Sunday morning and they're
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  playing secular music. They have an Elvis impersonator and some of these churches, it is turned into
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  just absolutely a lost Vegas show and live animals that Christmas and all the kinds of crazy
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  stuff like that, pastors on trapeze, all kinds of weird stuff. And it's all turned into entertainment.
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  And they're doing Michael Jackson's thriller. You know, those kinds of playing, you know,
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  playing highway to hell of Aussie Osborne or whatever it needed to do to attract people.
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  But what they were doing is turning that whole model of discipling the saints or equipping
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  the saints to and saying that no we're reaching out to people. And what it really turned into is
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  just worship, sorry, entertainment. That's all it was. Yeah. I mean, most of our audience understands
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  perfectly worship attainment when you say that because of this rock concert look and appeal to
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  something that's supposed to draw us to the throne of God and prepare our hearts to come before
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  him. And then to hear the hopefully God's word preached has been flipped on its head and turned
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  into something it was never meant to be. I always ask when I hear these modern concepts like
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  some of these churches are doing I always go, can you please give me the book chapter and first
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  on what would what would support what you're doing, you know, playing whatever secular music to draw
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  in people. But so my question my follow up question Brandon and I'll toss it over to you. So what
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  happens then when you draw people in when you are sensitive about what you say you draw people in
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  attract a crowd, you got them in your seats, maybe they'll come on a Sunday morning, then what are
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  you going to do? You can't preach the whole council of God. Go ahead. No, you can't. You're actually
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  very limited because however you attracted them is how you're going to keep them. So if you go
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  into controversial issues or you talk about Israel, you talk about, hey, just basic discipleship,
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  you're going to start offending them. And so they have to stay at this this this milk level.
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  This is why a guy like Stephen Ferdick at elevation church, same mentality, says if you're safe,
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  this church is not for you. He actually said that. And so it becomes a 15 minute pep talk,
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  David, and you're great. Jesus loves you. And you know, every day is Friday, you know,
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  so you get the Joel Ols thing message. And that's what ends up selling to a lot of people. So they
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  are actually going to church not to hear what they need to hear, but to hear what they want to hear
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  about themselves. And then what happens it creates a bubble around them to pretend that nothing
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  outside is happening to me. The world's not on fire. The culture's not going to pot. You know,
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  there's not a war with Russian Ukraine. There's not a Middle East war. Nothing is happening. It's
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  all about me. And it turns very selfish. Okay. So we're going to really go in a different
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  direction briefly. We did talk about the AB 495 in California in that bill. Touchdown transgendarism,
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  but there's been attacks, recent shootings, particularly the one in Minnesota. I wanted to get
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  your take on. I've got three different articles here. So I'm going to try to condense this and then
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  toss it to you, Pastor Brandon. One of them says the troubling link between psychiatric drugs,
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  transgendarism and violence. And another one by Linda Harvey at Mission America says transgenders
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  and tragedy tragedy. And she says the body count is growing murders at the hands of gender pretenders.
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  Are these confused people disproportionately prone to violence? Unless they receive help
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  to walk away from these delusions, the clear answer is yes. And then we're going to talk about
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  what happened in Minneapolis and what the media is not reporting, did not report. So Brandon,
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  there are many connections. We can connect the dots here. The left and the media and the
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  Democrats don't want us to do that. But it's clear to see a pattern of what's happening here.
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  And it is demonically driven, isn't it?
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  Uh, totally. I mean, well, how demons work is they take advantage of people that are suffering
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  typically of mental illness. And so you'll see a connection between demon activity and mental
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  illness and because they're the easiest ones to manipulate. But here's the thing. Back in 2013,
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  David, we said gender dysphoria. I'm talking about the American Psychiatric Association said that
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  gender dysphoria is a mental illness. And then all of a sudden because of political pressure,
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  wokeism or progressivism, whatever you want to call it, they put pressure on the association
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  and they changed it to say it's not a mental illness. Well, I'm sorry, you can say the voices in my
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  head are not schizophrenic or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a mental
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  illness. So now what we have done is embrace mental illness, encourage mental illness,
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  and it doesn't shock me them that the mental mental illness then will drive them to hostility.
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  If people are suffering under mental illness and anything gets in their way, that becomes their
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  default reaction to getting rid of anyone that stands in their way of achieving that,
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  especially if they're not on medication. But even if they are on medication, that doesn't solve
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  the problem because if you're now transitioning and you're on home hormone blockers or whatever they're
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  giving you testosterone, your chemistry is going to get so fouled up that you will react in
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  negative ways and hostile ways to where you think that killing is an option. So that's the problem
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  behind it. We're embracing mental illness. Yeah. And it does lead to violence because they don't
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  see any other way out. And it is almost like they want to commit suicide, but they want to take
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  other people out. They're so angry. This guy, Robert Westman and Minneapolis, by the way,
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  friends, I'm this now I'm reading from Libs of TikTok. It says there is an epidemic of trans violence
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  in America. This guy admitted he said I wanted to be a girl. I don't I don't feel like a girl,
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  but if I go back now, he said that I would have to admit failure. Now I'm paraphrasing one of the
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  quotes. If you just read his manifesto, and then you look at some of the things he put on,
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  he talked about his radical LGBTQ affiliation, his goals to target Christians, his desire to kill
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  President Trump. He's anti-Semitic. I mean, what else past your brand? But the media don't they don't
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  jump on that angle? They'll just protect his pronouns. Yeah, go ahead. Well, it's a typical
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  communist Marxist reversal of the perpetrator and the perpetrator becomes the victim all of a sudden.
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  That's right. And, you know, so they always change it over. And so you and I, the Christian,
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  become the perpetrator because of all the violence that we've committed through our voices and
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  what we say and that we're anti-trans and that's what causes them to react like this.
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  So all of a sudden, you and I become the perpetrator and the guy, the shooter is the victim.
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  Classic Marxics move, right? But anyway, what is it? Think about this. Why do they want to go
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  after Christians? Because the last few shootings have all been after Christians. Why are they not
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  going after Muslims or Buddhists or New Ageers or Hindus or anything? Why Christians? Because
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  Christianity stands in the way of that. Christianity puts its morality out there and says, no, no,
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  there's two genders. And this is how sexuality is defined within marriage. And it makes that
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  statement. And so they know intuitively. And especially if this is demonically inspired,
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  that Christianity is getting in the way of it. And so it doesn't shock me that this guy who was
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  pretending to be a girl was taking target practice with using Jesus's head on it. And even the last
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  one that did this before, what they do, they shot up a Christian school. So they go after Christians.
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  Yes, lives of TikTok totally right. There is an epidemic, but they won't talk about that Christians
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  are on the other end of being the victims and all of this. That's right. Friends, it is okay to connect
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  the dots if you're telling the truth. And just by observing the facts and what's coming out
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  because the media won't do it, some of the leaders, the mayor, I was at the mayor in Minnesota,
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  anyway, Brandon, oh, there's so much else, but we only have five minutes left. So what do you
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  think about these somewhat people actually had the audacity to criticize those who would pray
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  for the family's or for any tragedy? Just your thoughts on that as a pastor.
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  Yeah, it's just it's beyond me. It's like what country am I in? I thought this was our foundation
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  was Judeo Christian and we swearing the Bible and whatnot. And yet you got the mayor of Minnesota
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  and some of these other people, Jen Pasaki, you know, a lot of them out there saying, well,
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  this is not a time of prayer and thoughts and prayer. This is a time of getting gun control.
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  And and the crazy governor or mayor of Minnesota says, yeah, these guns are coming in from red
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  states. It's okay. The guns just walking over and falling into that hands of somebody in
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  shooting. It's just so bizarre. But you know what it is, David, it's it's a movement of our
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  country away from Christianity. And we have a bunch of reprobates, Romans, one types of individuals
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  who can't even think straight anymore. Yeah. And so, you know, they're anti God, anti-religion,
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  anti-Christian, anti-Bible. And so the so instead of saying, you know what, we got a problem here,
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  we need to pray about and see God's help. No, no, they they are blaspheming saying this is not a
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  time to pray to God. It's like, what kind of individual are you? What's happened to our country?
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  How did you get to a such a high office as ungodly as you are? And it tells me something a little
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  bit about the country, unfortunately, because somebody voted that guy in. Yes, I was just going to say
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  elections have consequences. And to these people, since there is no God, that prayer is irrelevant
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  to them. They don't understand there is power in prayer. So the last couple minutes left,
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  let's end on a positive note, Pastor Brandon. A lot of articles have been coming out about young
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  people searching for truth, searching for spirituality. A lot of, you know, that I'm reading about
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  these baptisms in California, these, I don't want to say revivals, but here's one article,
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  Generation Z's conservative shift. And so are you seeing a trend? Is there anything that you've
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  observed with the younger crowd that they're tired of all the nonsense and the, for example,
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  BS? And they just want to say, you know what? There's got to be truth out there. There's got to
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  be some sort of order. I don't get my rights from government, you know what I mean? What are your
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  thoughts on the younger generation, Gen Z? Yeah, absolutely. Somehow something happened to the
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  millennials, but Gen Z is way more invested in seeking truth. And we're noticing it here. I just
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  had a young and young nights, young adults night on Friday. And all I did, David, was do a Q&A
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  because these young adults are so curious. And they want to know the answers about things. So
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  we're seeing it as well. But here's the other thing is, they're drifting away from Protestantism
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  and they're going into more traditional Catholicism and liturgical types of churches. And I think
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  there's a reason behind that. They are sensing when they go to some of these Protestant churches,
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  just like you and I talked about, that they, it's fake. It's worship attainment. And I'm telling you,
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  that is not selling with Gen Z. And so they're moving to a more liturgical, traditional type of
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  environment and going to Orthodox and Catholicism and staying away from the secret friendly.
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  The secret friendly doesn't appeal to them anymore. So it's interesting. Yeah, you know that's
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  happening. Yeah, I think they're, they're smart enough to connect the dots and look at what's
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  happening in our culture and some of the delusions, some of the moral relativism. And if the churches
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  aren't speaking to that, and if they're kind of trying to conform to the world, some of these
• 26:19
  churches that they may be going to, of course, they're probably going to look for something else.
• 26:24
  Because it's not, I think Christianity. It's not tribal based Christianity. We're all view
• 26:29
  madness, right? It does. And even the presentation of what the church looks like inside or the
• 26:36
  presentation of the pastor communicates something, if the guy is in ripped jeans and a v-neck shirt,
• 26:41
  they're not taking that guy seriously, by the way. So that whole movement is going down the tubes
• 26:48
  because of what they want. They want real, something real. It's interesting. I've got a little bit
• 26:54
  of hope. I was really skeptical for a while because of the millennial generation. Whatever happened,
• 27:00
  we can dissect that for hours and podcasts and podcasts. But what we're saying with Gen Z is
• 27:06
  very interesting. I just want to mention before let's go, friends, again, October 4 at Rock Harbor
• 27:12
  Church in Bakersfield, California, they will be live streaming the prophecy conference.
• 27:16
  Any closing thoughts in 30 seconds, Pastor Brandon? Yeah, we're trying to reinvigorate,
• 27:23
  awaken the church, get back to being salt and line. That's why we're having this conference.
• 27:26
  And so if people want to live stream it, that'd be great wherever they're at. And we're trying
• 27:31
  to get people active so we don't lose our culture. Amen, brother. I thank you so much for all you
• 27:37
  do, particularly trying to do what you're doing over in Israel. And of course, in California,
• 27:42
  God bless you and protect you out there. Thanks for your time, Pastor Brandon. Thank you.
• 27:46
  All right, brother. Good being with you. Not same here. Friends, God bless you, share this podcast.
• 27:51
  And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.