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Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - The Swiss Beauty Queen · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome to an episode of Till Death Do
0:04
Speaker 1: Us Part. We are going to venture into not just
0:09
Speaker 1: different states this time, but we're going to go to
0:11
Speaker 1: a totally different country today. So we're going to talk
0:14
Speaker 1: about a case that's out of Switzerland that had a
0:17
Speaker 1: lot of press surrounding it. Because the details of this
0:20
Speaker 1: case are so disgustingly gory, so let's just do a
0:25
Speaker 1: little bit of a synopsis. I don't know if any
0:27
Speaker 1: of you have heard of this, maybe it'll ring some bells.
0:30
Speaker 1: So Christina Jacqusamovich was a thirty eight year old Serbian
0:34
Speaker 1: born model, mother and former Miss Switzerland finalists who was
0:38
Speaker 1: living in Benningen, Switzerland. Her husband, Mark Ribin, was a
0:43
Speaker 1: wealthy Swiss businessman and they shared two young daughters together.
0:47
Speaker 1: In February twenty twenty four, Christina told her husband that
0:50
Speaker 1: she wanted a divorce. Her husband, Mark, who reportedly refused
0:54
Speaker 1: to accept the divorce and was withholding financial support, attacked Christina,
1:00
Speaker 1: strangling her with some type of object. He then goes
1:04
Speaker 1: on to do some pretty gruesome things with the body,
1:06
Speaker 1: which we will get into detail about. Okay, all right,
1:11
Speaker 1: so let's just do a little bit of a timeline.
1:13
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Christina. And again, you know what this
1:15
Speaker 1: reminded me of. It's like whenever we remember how we
1:18
Speaker 1: talked about Anna Kaepner and she was a cheerleader, so
1:21
Speaker 1: anytime there was another cheerleader in case, we did too
1:23
Speaker 1: where she had the baby and then she put the baby,
1:25
Speaker 1: she strangled the baby or killed the baby somehow and
1:28
Speaker 1: then hid the baby. But she was a cheerleader, so
1:30
Speaker 1: then every headline is cheerleader, right. But we always talked
1:33
Speaker 1: about how like if someone's a soccer player, they don't
1:35
Speaker 1: put like soccer player in the headline, but it's the
1:38
Speaker 1: same when it comes to like a beauty queen. If
1:40
Speaker 1: there's any kind of title or modeling or beauty queen,
1:43
Speaker 1: that is always in the headlines. Yeah, and so she's
1:47
Speaker 1: a former beauty queen. But I was thinking, you don't
1:49
Speaker 1: even have to be like a top tier beauty queen,
1:52
Speaker 1: Like you could have won Miss Sunflower Harvest in your
1:56
Speaker 1: local you know, groceries or small town and if that
2:02
Speaker 1: happened to you at some point in your life, then
2:04
Speaker 1: they'll put beauty queen.
2:06
Speaker 2: So if you die, yeah, it will be housewife, Missimplify.
2:11
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, why did you bring that up?
2:14
Speaker 2: What because you're the one that talked about it.
2:16
Speaker 1: Well, that was a long time ago.
2:18
Speaker 2: You put a big emphasis on Beauty Queen's I wasn't.
2:20
Speaker 1: Even thinking of myself. I was just thinking of just
2:23
Speaker 1: headlines and what is clickbait? Cheerleader is clearly clickbait, and
2:28
Speaker 1: Beauty Queen is clickbait. Let's get into Christina. So Christina
2:33
Speaker 1: was thirty eight when this all happened. She was a
2:36
Speaker 1: model and a runway coach and entrepreneur. I guess she
2:40
Speaker 1: had started her own modeling type of consulting business where
2:43
Speaker 1: she was teaching girls how to walk on a catwalk.
2:46
Speaker 1: And I don't know things like that that had to
2:48
Speaker 1: do with the modeling or pageants really a.
2:49
Speaker 2: Career in that, teaching someone how to walk.
2:53
Speaker 1: I think so, because I think there's so many young
2:54
Speaker 1: girls out there that want to be models.
2:56
Speaker 2: Or but there's only so much to walking and you take.
2:59
Speaker 1: One lets No, Well, you clearly don't know a lot
3:02
Speaker 1: about the modeling world and the pageant world. I guess
3:05
Speaker 1: you could do weekly. I don't know, you could learn
3:07
Speaker 1: different types of walks and turns and spins, and I
3:11
Speaker 1: don't know. She won the Miss Northwest Switzerland title and
3:16
Speaker 1: was a national Miss Switzerland finalist. Her loved ones describe her,
3:21
Speaker 1: I always love this. Her loved ones at what do
3:23
Speaker 1: you think? Describe her as.
3:24
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a bunch of positive traits.
3:26
Speaker 1: Of course, she lights up the room when she walks in.
3:30
Speaker 1: She would help anyone. She's warm, she's full of ambitious.
3:34
Speaker 1: I mean she probably is all of these things.
3:36
Speaker 2: What will you say about me at my death?
3:39
Speaker 1: I would say, every time he walked into the room, everyone.
3:44
Speaker 2: I was annoyed and I'd roll my eyes and now
3:48
Speaker 2: I can't do that.
3:49
Speaker 1: What would you say about me?
3:51
Speaker 2: Full of love? Full of love, didn't want to argue
3:55
Speaker 2: with anyone, right, that's me. I had very little opinions.
3:59
Speaker 2: Wasn't judgmental exactly.
4:00
Speaker 1: Thank you. You're not going to say I lit up
4:03
Speaker 1: a room every time I entered.
4:05
Speaker 2: You light up a room, all right?
4:07
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. I appreciate it. She was also
4:10
Speaker 1: very devoted to her two young daughters, and friends describe
4:14
Speaker 1: a public image. Public image that's a keyword, right, of
4:17
Speaker 1: a very happy family. Just weeks before her death, she
4:20
Speaker 1: had posted photos from what appeared to be a romantic
4:23
Speaker 1: get away with her husband Mark at a luxury hotel
4:26
Speaker 1: on Lake Lucerra exactly appeared.
4:30
Speaker 2: See that's what Instagram is. It appears to be lots
4:33
Speaker 2: of things, right I.
4:35
Speaker 1: Read I don't know where I read this, but I
4:37
Speaker 1: read on Instagram. Probably on Instagram. That's where I get
4:39
Speaker 1: all my news and information. I do remember reading that
4:43
Speaker 1: couples that are the happiest, like truly the happiest are
4:47
Speaker 1: the ones that post the least. It's the ones that
4:51
Speaker 1: are constantly posting. I don't know, there's.
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Speaker 2: Probably let's see, how often do you post about you? No,
4:58
Speaker 2: just you said post, Oh.
5:00
Speaker 1: I'm not post like things together like a couple type
5:03
Speaker 1: of things, like photos of them together and doing things together.
5:06
Speaker 1: I read that, really, couples that aren't posting about their
5:10
Speaker 1: relationship are the ones that end up having like a No, that'sh.
5:13
Speaker 2: He constantly posts about his car, so his car must
5:16
Speaker 2: really be falling apart, not very good. It's like, no,
5:19
Speaker 2: maybe he just likes his cards. He's posting phone.
5:21
Speaker 1: You're comparing a car to a relationship. Do you have
5:23
Speaker 1: a relationship with your car?
5:25
Speaker 2: Every morning we spend time together.
5:27
Speaker 1: Yes, what's your car's name? It does have a name.
5:32
Speaker 2: It's nameless.
5:33
Speaker 1: It is not. What is your car's name a name?
5:35
Speaker 1: It doesn't know. I thought you had an app on
5:37
Speaker 1: your phone for your Tesla, and I thought.
5:39
Speaker 2: Of labeled the car.
5:41
Speaker 1: Yes, what is it label?
5:42
Speaker 2: Kids? Exactly?
5:43
Speaker 1: Why are you actually like I'm crazy?
5:45
Speaker 2: You aren't crazy?
5:46
Speaker 1: No, I'm not.
5:47
Speaker 2: Because you were correct on this does mean you're not
5:49
Speaker 2: crazy all right?
5:50
Speaker 1: Behind closed doors, friends said that the reality of their
5:53
Speaker 1: relationship was very different.
5:55
Speaker 2: They just always act like like like we were all fooled.
5:59
Speaker 2: We thought that they were so happy.
6:00
Speaker 1: Well, maybe people are fooled because people are different behind
6:05
Speaker 1: closed doors, which is what true crime is all about.
6:16
Speaker 1: Friends describe Mark Ribin as introverted, very critical, and sometimes arrogant,
6:21
Speaker 1: and said he frequently belittled Christina with gestures, words, and tone.
6:26
Speaker 1: He reportedly objected to their daughters wearing feminine clothing and
6:30
Speaker 1: allegedly hates femininity.
6:33
Speaker 2: Now that secks for a guy that has two daughters wife.
6:36
Speaker 1: People believe one of his main motives and killing Christina
6:38
Speaker 1: was that he simply hates women. Christina had tried to
6:42
Speaker 1: save the marriage through couple's therapy, but Mark allegedly either
6:45
Speaker 1: walked out of sessions or refused to participate. Police had
6:49
Speaker 1: previously been called after Christina accused him of being violent
6:53
Speaker 1: and threatening. By early twenty twenty four, Christina had told
6:56
Speaker 1: Mark that she wanted a divorce. She was seeking financial
6:59
Speaker 1: support from him and custody of their daughters. The daughters
7:03
Speaker 1: were aged four and five at the time. He reportedly
7:06
Speaker 1: refused to accept the divorce and demanded full custody of
7:09
Speaker 1: the girls himself, and was withholding financial support from her. Obviously,
7:13
Speaker 1: in the United States, if a woman wants to get
7:16
Speaker 1: divorced and they go to an attorney and the husband
7:19
Speaker 1: is the bread winner of the family, then obviously her
7:23
Speaker 1: attorney would ask for some type of temporary support until
7:27
Speaker 1: there's a final decision made, when there's a final divorce decree.
7:31
Speaker 1: But this is Switzerland, so I don't know. Maybe he
7:34
Speaker 1: is allowed to just withhold financial support and she's on
7:36
Speaker 1: her own. I don't know.
7:37
Speaker 2: Well, you know how when you file for divorce, they're
7:39
Speaker 2: supposed to freeze assets.
7:40
Speaker 1: Well that's in the US, yes, yeah.
7:42
Speaker 2: Like you file for divorce and now you know, you
7:45
Speaker 2: serve the other spouse and then they're unnoticed. You cannot
7:50
Speaker 2: deplete the accounts, you cannot cancel the credit card, like
7:54
Speaker 2: everything has to stay the way it is, right. They
7:57
Speaker 2: should also add notice that if you're spouse dies, yes,
8:04
Speaker 2: you will be a prime suspect in the homicide investigation. Yeah,
8:10
Speaker 2: so you are on notice. Yes, like we are watching
8:13
Speaker 2: you right now. Sir. Wait, you feel like that should
8:17
Speaker 2: be delivered.
8:17
Speaker 1: To these Wait, you feel like that should be with
8:19
Speaker 1: the writing, Yes, that should be one of like on
8:22
Speaker 1: the petitions.
8:22
Speaker 2: You should you should click the box and then that
8:25
Speaker 2: you agree, and then they will think twice about, oh well,
8:28
Speaker 2: I better make sure she doesn't die on my watch.
8:30
Speaker 1: We get to February thirteenth of twenty twenty four, which
8:33
Speaker 1: is the actual murder. So, while having lunch at their home,
8:36
Speaker 1: the couple discusses their divorce terms. The argument escalates, and,
8:40
Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, Mark grabbed Christina by the throat, pinned
8:45
Speaker 1: her against the wall, and strangled her using some type
8:49
Speaker 1: of ribbon like object. I don't know. I don't know
8:51
Speaker 1: why they don't just disclose what it was that he used.
8:54
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't know. I guess maybe according to the autopsy,
8:57
Speaker 1: maybe there's just strangulation marks that they're not exactly but
9:00
Speaker 1: he did use some kind of piano wire, something he
9:04
Speaker 1: used something. Prosecutors said that she suffered an agonizing death,
9:09
Speaker 1: being punched, kicked, and strangled in cold blood. What followed
9:14
Speaker 1: the murder was described by prosecutors as almost beyond comprehension.
9:18
Speaker 1: Mark had reportedly studied an atlas of human anatomy in
9:21
Speaker 1: advance and used that knowledge to methodically dismember Christina's body
9:26
Speaker 1: inside the laundry room basement of their home. He used
9:30
Speaker 1: a jigsaw. Tell me what a jigsaw is.
9:33
Speaker 2: It's an electric power tool. It's a saw that goes
9:36
Speaker 2: up and down.
9:37
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's a handheld type of tool. It's not
9:39
Speaker 1: like a salt table.
9:40
Speaker 2: No, then they would have said, okay, all right.
9:44
Speaker 1: So he used a jigsaw, a knife, and garden shears
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Speaker 1: to dismember her body in the laundry room basement of
9:53
Speaker 1: their home with their two young daughters.
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Speaker 2: Oh that's right, like they're upstairs and stuff. Yeah, is he?
9:59
Speaker 1: What is he is?
9:59
Speaker 2: He just said, right back? Is he?
10:01
Speaker 1: Like?
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Speaker 2: Kids?
10:01
Speaker 1: Don't come down here?
10:03
Speaker 2: Right?
10:04
Speaker 1: I also read that he just was watching YouTube videos
10:06
Speaker 1: while he was doing it, right.
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Speaker 2: Which which negates the thinking of oh my gosh, she
10:12
Speaker 2: fell down the stairs. It was all an accident where
10:15
Speaker 2: I killed her and cell defense and then you just
10:18
Speaker 2: watch YouTube videos like you're okay with that behavior.
10:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, But my question was he wasn't watching like YouTube
10:24
Speaker 1: videos on how to dismember. He was watched past time,
10:26
Speaker 1: like he was just passing the time because it takes
10:28
Speaker 1: a while.
10:28
Speaker 2: To catch up on his subscribed channels, right.
10:31
Speaker 1: Because I mean, I would assume it takes a while
10:32
Speaker 1: to dismember a body, so he's gonna be down there
10:35
Speaker 1: a while. I just want to know what the daughters
10:37
Speaker 1: are doing upstairs.
10:39
Speaker 2: Well, then might have been in take care or something. Yeah,
10:41
Speaker 2: all right.
10:41
Speaker 1: Some of her remains were then processed in an industrial
10:45
Speaker 1: blender and dissolved using bleach. He had to really think
10:50
Speaker 1: about this, I think.
10:51
Speaker 2: Well, and I read that he bought the blender.
10:54
Speaker 1: Just prior to right, So that's what I'm saying, which.
10:56
Speaker 2: Goes against his like, oh, the killing was not playing.
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Speaker 1: Right, she fell down the stairs, tried to attack it a.
11:02
Speaker 2: Commercial I'd never had a commercial size blender. Where do
11:05
Speaker 2: you like? What kind of blender is it?
11:06
Speaker 1: I don't know. Is that one of those ones?
11:10
Speaker 2: No, that would be a Costco Vitam mixed one. It
11:12
Speaker 2: is a commercial size commercial size.
11:15
Speaker 1: I don't know either. I need to see a photo.
11:18
Speaker 1: I want to see a picture of a commercial size blender.
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Speaker 1: All right. Investigators noted the particularly disturbing detail that her uterus.
11:27
Speaker 2: Did you read this part preserved?
11:28
Speaker 1: Her uterus was carefully removed. It was the only internal
11:32
Speaker 1: organ taken from her torso. Prosecutors described the acts as
11:36
Speaker 1: deliberate mutilation and ritualize degradation of the body, and said
11:42
Speaker 1: that Mark was just casually watching YouTube videos while he
11:46
Speaker 1: was dismembering her, removing her uterus from her body, and
11:51
Speaker 1: then just casually putting body parts into an industrial sized
11:56
Speaker 1: blender and puring her body. You know, when we were
11:59
Speaker 1: talking about like clickbait and how they like to use
12:01
Speaker 1: beauty queen and a lot of the you know, like
12:04
Speaker 1: the headlines like beauty queen, cheerleader. You know this every
12:08
Speaker 1: time I looked up, every time I googled, because I
12:10
Speaker 1: wanted to read more articles about this case, Puraide, it was.
12:14
Speaker 2: Beauty blended so much. It's like liquid liquified.
12:18
Speaker 1: Yes, but that was always in the title. It was
12:21
Speaker 1: beauty queen murdered my husband, Puraide. That is some clickbait
12:27
Speaker 1: right there.
12:28
Speaker 2: Did he actually dispose of anything, or was it just
12:30
Speaker 2: a big mess in the basement. Yeah, I'm a feeling
12:32
Speaker 2: it was just a big mess.
12:33
Speaker 1: Well that's the part I don't understand. What was he
12:35
Speaker 1: What do you do with the purade parts?
12:38
Speaker 2: I don't know.
12:39
Speaker 1: I mean he put the he put the dismembered part.
12:43
Speaker 1: I think that weren't purade into a trash bag, but
12:48
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. Did he just dump it
12:50
Speaker 1: in the sink? Did he go outside and dump it
12:51
Speaker 1: in the or I don't. I don't know. After completing
12:54
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't think about it too much
12:55
Speaker 1: because it's so gross. After completing the dismemberment, Mark went
12:58
Speaker 1: on to have dinner with the couple's two young daughters,
13:00
Speaker 1: behaving as if nothing had happened.
13:02
Speaker 2: Well, of course, what's he supposed to do?
13:04
Speaker 1: I don't know that's.
13:08
Speaker 2: Happened.
13:09
Speaker 1: Concerns were first raised when Christina failed to pick up
13:12
Speaker 1: one of her daughters from kindergarten. This is where he
13:15
Speaker 1: didn't cover his tracks very well. I mean, he knows
13:18
Speaker 1: that he killed her, he dismembered her, he puris her
13:20
Speaker 1: body parts, and then he fails to pick He knows
13:23
Speaker 1: she's not able to pick up the daughter from kindergarten.
13:26
Speaker 1: Her parents tried reaching her by phone and received no answer,
13:29
Speaker 1: so they went to her home. So they arrived and
13:32
Speaker 1: Mark told them that he did not know where Christina was,
13:35
Speaker 1: then calmly invited them inside. He prepared food for them
13:38
Speaker 1: and made them a drink. While they waited, her father
13:41
Speaker 1: searched the basement. He found a black trash bag with
13:44
Speaker 1: blonde hair sticking out of it, and when he opened
13:47
Speaker 1: the trash bag, he discovered his daughter's severed head. He
13:52
Speaker 1: ran out of the house screaming. A neighbor called the
13:54
Speaker 1: police and Mark Riven was arrested at the scene. Can
13:57
Speaker 1: you imagine, like that's fathomable. First of all, her parents
14:03
Speaker 1: are probably freaking out. They don't know where she is, right,
14:05
Speaker 1: so they're probably they're worried anyway, right, they don't know
14:07
Speaker 1: what they don't know where she is. I'm sure they're
14:09
Speaker 1: having trouble sleeping. They can't get a hold of her.
14:11
Speaker 1: They're trying to call her. She's not answering. The husband
14:14
Speaker 1: lets him in. He says he hasn't seen her. The
14:16
Speaker 1: dad's obviously suspicious, so he's wandering around the house, probably
14:20
Speaker 1: trying to look for clues or see if it looks
14:22
Speaker 1: like she's been there, or if she does, she have
14:24
Speaker 1: a wallet, a purse. I don't know what's going on
14:26
Speaker 1: right then he just wanders down to the laundry room
14:29
Speaker 1: in the basement and finds her severed head in a
14:33
Speaker 1: trash bag. I mean, this guy didn't even have the
14:36
Speaker 1: wherewithal to remove the body out of the house.
14:40
Speaker 2: Again, he is not in his right mind. You want
14:46
Speaker 2: him to have common sense and clean up after himself,
14:52
Speaker 2: but he had no problem killing her and cutting her up.
15:05
Speaker 1: So global news outlets obviously picks up on this case
15:08
Speaker 1: immediately because of the gruesome nature of this case.
15:11
Speaker 2: And she was a beauty queen, and because.
15:13
Speaker 1: Of Christina's line of work, it's model beauty queen. You
15:16
Speaker 1: put it in the headlines. But no publications listed Mark's
15:20
Speaker 1: identity until official court proceedings began. That's the difference between
15:24
Speaker 1: the United States and Switzerland. Because when I first started
15:27
Speaker 1: researching this case and I was reading some of the
15:29
Speaker 1: earlier articles about when this first came out, they referred
15:33
Speaker 1: to him as Thomas, And even so I kept thinking,
15:38
Speaker 1: is his name Thomas? Because I don't think his name
15:40
Speaker 1: is Thomas because some of the other articles that I
15:41
Speaker 1: had read later called him Mark. So then I was like,
15:44
Speaker 1: I was confused as to why they were referring to
15:46
Speaker 1: him as Thomas. But then I learned more about Swiss law,
15:51
Speaker 1: and they have more, I don't know, stricter provisions as
15:55
Speaker 1: far as privacy law. So because even though.
15:58
Speaker 2: He's he's innocent, he'll prove it guilty, so they don't
16:02
Speaker 2: want to smear his name.
16:03
Speaker 1: Right, and so they accusation, right, so they referred to
16:07
Speaker 1: him as Thomas, and a lot of these articles I
16:09
Speaker 1: agree with that the US lanes heavily toward free speech
16:12
Speaker 1: and press freedom. The First Amendment creates a strong presumption
16:15
Speaker 1: in favor of publication. Switzerland, on the other hand, this
16:19
Speaker 1: is the difference between Switzerland and the United States, balances
16:22
Speaker 1: press freedom against personal honor and privacy, treating them as
16:26
Speaker 1: competing rights of roughly equal weight. So obviously in the
16:29
Speaker 1: United States it's not equal. It's not saying, you know,
16:32
Speaker 1: this person has a same right to privacy and the
16:36
Speaker 1: same balance as the press being able to have the
16:40
Speaker 1: ability to write something freely about what's going on. It's
16:44
Speaker 1: very Our constitution allows freedom of press, So.
16:47
Speaker 2: Is everyone a Thomas. Every defendant is a Thomas.
16:50
Speaker 1: Well I don't know about that.
16:51
Speaker 2: Then what if your name is Thomas? Yeah, well then
16:54
Speaker 2: do they use a different name and they're like, it's
16:55
Speaker 2: Bill And then they're like, oh, well they usually use Thomas.
16:59
Speaker 2: Now they use Bill. So it's a guy named Thomas,
17:01
Speaker 2: and now they can talk to Thomas.
17:03
Speaker 1: Maybe they just pick a random male name every time.
17:07
Speaker 1: Switzerland recognizes a right to one's own image, meaning the
17:10
Speaker 1: media generally cannot publish photos or footage of individuals without consent,
17:15
Speaker 1: especially in private settings. However, in the US, photography and
17:20
Speaker 1: filming in public spaces is broadly protected and consent is
17:24
Speaker 1: rarely required for editorial use. You know, we've seen that
17:28
Speaker 1: a lot lately where well, it says in Switzerland in
17:32
Speaker 1: order to use someone to publish someone's image usually have
17:34
Speaker 1: to have consent, which isn't true here. And how many
17:36
Speaker 1: times I've watched YouTube videos that you've watched where people
17:40
Speaker 1: get mad when someone's recording outside on a public sidewalk,
17:43
Speaker 1: and they'll tell them that they're not allowed to record,
17:45
Speaker 1: and they'll tell them to like put the camera down
17:47
Speaker 1: and put it away, and that's you're allowed to do
17:50
Speaker 1: that you're allowed to publicly film on a public sidewalk outside.
17:57
Speaker 2: I think what you might do with the film later
17:59
Speaker 2: is different. But yeah, you can record.
18:01
Speaker 1: Because there's no expectation of privacy. That's the rule, that's
18:04
Speaker 1: the standard in the United States under our Constitution is
18:07
Speaker 1: in the expectation of privacy. And if there is no
18:10
Speaker 1: reasonable expectation of privacy in a public setting on a street,
18:14
Speaker 1: on a sidewalk, and a crowded restaurant, whatever, then you're
18:18
Speaker 1: allowed to record.
18:19
Speaker 2: That's right. So if you want expectation privacy out in public,
18:22
Speaker 2: what do you do, Well, don't go out in public, Well,
18:25
Speaker 2: you go to trade shows. Oh, because they have a
18:28
Speaker 2: sign that says no filming. Okay, Well, then there're no
18:31
Speaker 2: recording right Inside.
18:33
Speaker 1: Switzerland, aligned with European norms, increasingly recognizes the right to
18:38
Speaker 1: have old, outdated, or irrelevant information removed from public access,
18:42
Speaker 1: including news archives. A person who was convicted of a
18:44
Speaker 1: crime decades ago may have grounds to request removal of
18:48
Speaker 1: old articles. However, US law offers almost no equivalent right.
18:53
Speaker 1: Old news articles remain protected expression indefinitely. So basically, I
18:58
Speaker 1: guess you can can get rid of your if you
19:01
Speaker 1: have some bad history that's out there. In the US,
19:06
Speaker 1: court proceedings are almost entirely open and the media can
19:09
Speaker 1: report freely on trials, evidence and verdicts. You know what
19:12
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when we were talking right here
19:14
Speaker 1: about how Switzerland recognizes that a person owns their own image,
19:20
Speaker 1: meaning that the media generally cannot publish photos or footage
19:23
Speaker 1: of individuals without consent. It made me think of Amanda Knox.
19:27
Speaker 1: I don't know why that just popped into my head,
19:28
Speaker 1: because remember how we talked about it was really a
19:30
Speaker 1: trial by media, and how I remember they just went
19:34
Speaker 1: and found every MySpace thing that she just blasted.
19:40
Speaker 2: And where's a good example where her privacy wasn't protected
19:44
Speaker 2: while she was presumed innocent? Right? She was blasted everywhere?
19:49
Speaker 1: Right, So how does.
19:50
Speaker 2: This son she's found not guilty. Well, I guess she
19:52
Speaker 2: was found guilty and then not guilty, so that's a
19:54
Speaker 2: little bit different. But ultimately, had she been found not
19:57
Speaker 2: guilty in the very first trial, too late, so sad, right,
20:02
Speaker 2: it would have been like plastered everywhere already.
20:05
Speaker 1: Well that's the problem. And I guess when you think
20:06
Speaker 1: about it, the freedom of expression and freedom of publication
20:09
Speaker 1: that we have in the United States also is detrimental
20:12
Speaker 1: to someone because Amanda Knox, how do you get a
20:14
Speaker 1: fair trial? Like I'm just using her as an example,
20:17
Speaker 1: but when the media blasts her photo everywhere and calls
20:19
Speaker 1: her foxy Knoxy and shows that photo remember where she
20:22
Speaker 1: was at a museum and there was like a she
20:24
Speaker 1: was like it was like a gun. Remember they showed
20:26
Speaker 1: they kept publishing that photo of her with a gun.
20:29
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you get a fair trial when
20:31
Speaker 1: when the media is portraying you as an evil person?
20:34
Speaker 1: They're posting every photo they found in your history and
20:36
Speaker 1: your MySpace and your Facebook and your Instagram, and they're
20:40
Speaker 1: putting it out there for the world to see, and
20:41
Speaker 1: they're labeling you as a criminal. That's what everyone sees,
20:45
Speaker 1: that's what's in their mind. And then that's your jury
20:47
Speaker 1: pool that's reading these articles and seeing it. And I
20:51
Speaker 1: know they try to. They asked during jury selection, have
20:54
Speaker 1: you seen this? Do you know where she is? Have
20:55
Speaker 1: you read? But I mean you'd have to live under
20:58
Speaker 1: a rock at some point know these things about people
21:02
Speaker 1: when they're sensationalized like that.
21:04
Speaker 2: And if it's like, wait, you haven't heard this story, right,
21:07
Speaker 2: Like where do you bean? They do for a living.
21:09
Speaker 2: I don't want. I don't know if I want, I
21:10
Speaker 2: don't know if I can trust you to follow the
21:12
Speaker 2: facts right.
21:14
Speaker 1: Swiss courts also have more discretion to limit reporting, and
21:18
Speaker 1: there are stricter rules around identifying accused persons, victims, and juveniles.
21:23
Speaker 1: Swiss media often referred to defendants by their first name
21:27
Speaker 1: only and maybe a last initial, even in high profile cases.
21:33
Speaker 1: So let's get back to this case. The Swiss criminal
21:36
Speaker 1: investigators conducted extensive forensic analysis, including biological material collection, movement analysis,
21:43
Speaker 1: and crime scene reconstruction. The autopsy confirmed deliberate strangulation and
21:49
Speaker 1: documented the methodical and prolonged nature of the dismemberment. Forensic
21:55
Speaker 1: findings showed no signs of a knife attack on Mark.
21:58
Speaker 1: He said that she that he really killed her in
22:00
Speaker 1: self defense because she was trying to kill him with
22:02
Speaker 1: a knife. I mean, where's the knife and where's his
22:06
Speaker 1: defensive wound?
22:06
Speaker 2: Couldn't leave?
22:09
Speaker 1: Couldn't you just get divorced?
22:11
Speaker 2: She wanted to get tonor I mean, like if she's
22:12
Speaker 2: chasing after her knife, couldn't he just like leave, like
22:17
Speaker 2: just push her down and leave. Well, yeah, he had
22:20
Speaker 2: he had to go strangle her and kill her.
22:22
Speaker 1: Oh you're saying a story even if it was true.
22:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was. I mean it looked like a reasonably
22:27
Speaker 2: healthy guy that he could have just you know, defended
22:29
Speaker 2: himself with just a simple knife. Yeah, because it's I mean,
22:32
Speaker 2: I imagine she's not so aggressive or experienced in knife stabbing,
22:40
Speaker 2: you know, and her skills that he probably could have,
22:42
Speaker 2: they could have just scuffled and been done with.
22:45
Speaker 1: So you're saying that that was a stupid argument that
22:47
Speaker 1: he came up with. As far as his defense, pretty
22:52
Speaker 1: much his self defense. Forensic findings showed no signs of
22:55
Speaker 1: a knife attack on Mark, directly contradicting his claim that
22:58
Speaker 1: Christina had attacked him. Investigators also discovered that he had
23:02
Speaker 1: studied human anatomy and preparation. So, yeah, we talked about this.
23:07
Speaker 1: The premeditation is unreal. First of all, he has that
23:10
Speaker 1: book on anatomy that he read, so he's like, you know,
23:12
Speaker 1: he's studying body parts. And I know that you don't
23:16
Speaker 1: like to analyze human behavior because you just think he's
23:18
Speaker 1: a crook and he's just go to jail. But why
23:22
Speaker 1: removing the uterus?
23:23
Speaker 2: I don't know.
23:24
Speaker 1: I mean, that is so and it goes back to
23:27
Speaker 1: maybe the theory that people said that he hates women,
23:29
Speaker 1: which would be interesting to know what kind of relationship
23:31
Speaker 1: he has with his mother.
23:33
Speaker 2: Well, also like, what are you gonna do? More than
23:34
Speaker 2: half the world is women. What are you going to do?
23:37
Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's talk a little bit about the
23:39
Speaker 1: system in Switzerland. So jury trials are a cornerstone of
23:43
Speaker 1: the US system, guaranteed by our constitution for criminal cases
23:46
Speaker 1: and many civil cases. However, Switzerland largely abolished jury trials.
23:51
Speaker 1: Most cases are decided by professional judges or a panel
23:55
Speaker 1: of judges, sometimes even decided by lay judges, which means
24:01
Speaker 1: non lawyers. What do you think about that?
24:03
Speaker 2: And I don't like that at all?
24:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what, I feel.
24:06
Speaker 2: Like, Spain does that too. I've heard of some other
24:08
Speaker 2: places that.
24:08
Speaker 1: Do that where they got rid of juries, and they just.
24:11
Speaker 2: Getting rid of juries, but this they have a panel.
24:13
Speaker 1: A panel of judges that reviews.
24:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't like that.
24:16
Speaker 1: Why not?
24:17
Speaker 2: I don't know, because because there's too much power into
24:21
Speaker 2: one group of people. That's dangerous. Or are the checks
24:27
Speaker 2: and balances? Yeah?
24:29
Speaker 1: But there are sometimes when I do believe that when
24:31
Speaker 1: you have a trial by jury, sometimes there are people
24:34
Speaker 1: on the jury, especially if you have a complex case
24:37
Speaker 1: that has to do with like difficult forensics and there's
24:41
Speaker 1: a lot of analytics in the case, and sometimes I don't.
24:44
Speaker 2: Know, sometimes the judge will make a ruling on that
24:46
Speaker 2: particular piece of evidence and then instruct the jury. But
24:51
Speaker 2: then sometimes you're right if it's too technical, like let's
24:54
Speaker 2: say it's a financial crime and they're thinking, no jury,
24:57
Speaker 2: no layperson can follow this, or there's a a lot
25:00
Speaker 2: of legalities in place, right, so we need a bench
25:03
Speaker 2: trial so you have a.
25:04
Speaker 1: Jury scientific and forensics can get really complicated, all right,
25:08
Speaker 1: So this is exactly a year ago. Mark goes to trial.
25:11
Speaker 1: The trial asset approximately five and a half days. It
25:14
Speaker 1: became one of the most closely watched criminal proceedings in
25:17
Speaker 1: Switzerland in recent years. However, we did talk about how
25:20
Speaker 1: they're not allowed to have cameras in the trial. So
25:22
Speaker 1: I don't know, Well, maybe.
25:24
Speaker 2: Watch means follow follow the fat all the timeline of
25:27
Speaker 2: the core.
25:28
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if there were articles written each day
25:30
Speaker 1: after the trial, or type of summary or something. Mark
25:35
Speaker 1: Riben consistently claimed that he had acted in self defense
25:37
Speaker 1: after Christina attacked him. Prosecutors called this account fabricated, stating
25:42
Speaker 1: flatly that there was never a knife attack. There was
25:45
Speaker 1: an expert witness that testified this was Professor Frank Urbannac.
25:50
Speaker 1: These are all Swiss names, so I'm having trouble with them.
25:53
Speaker 1: But for Professor Frank Urbannac, he was a forensic psychiatrist
25:57
Speaker 1: with over thirty years of experience spanning five thousand cases,
26:01
Speaker 1: and he testified that Mark had narcissistic traits and obsessive
26:05
Speaker 1: compulsive disorder. He described Mark's actions as carried out with
26:09
Speaker 1: meticulous precision and said that he had never seen anything
26:13
Speaker 1: like this before in his entire career. Well, you know,
26:16
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. There's not a lot of
26:18
Speaker 1: cases out there that I have ever come across where
26:20
Speaker 1: someone brutally murders their wife, dismembers them in the laundry room,
26:24
Speaker 1: and then puries their body and then puts the head
26:26
Speaker 1: in a bag and the dad finds it.
26:29
Speaker 2: I don't know, and we needed a guy with this
26:31
Speaker 2: level of experience.
26:32
Speaker 1: To say that he like, just to say that he's a.
26:35
Speaker 2: Like foul play. I mean, seriously.
26:38
Speaker 1: The couple's oldest daughter, who was four years old at
26:40
Speaker 1: the time of the murder, told police that her father
26:42
Speaker 1: was lying. When detectives informed the children that their mother
26:45
Speaker 1: had died and that their father said it was not
26:48
Speaker 1: on purpose. Christina's mother made a heartbreaking statement during the trial,
26:54
Speaker 1: and it was read in court by their lawyer. See,
26:56
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would be able if I
26:58
Speaker 1: ever had to make an impact like a victor impact
27:00
Speaker 1: statement that had something to do with someone very close
27:03
Speaker 1: in my life. I don't think I could. I don't
27:05
Speaker 1: think I could physically do it. I think I would
27:07
Speaker 1: have to have someone read it for me. I don't
27:11
Speaker 1: think I could ever do that. Yeah, I remember and
27:16
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger's do you remember the sister of one of
27:19
Speaker 1: the victims when she went up and looked directly at
27:22
Speaker 1: him and like memorized her entire statement and was just
27:27
Speaker 1: so emphatic and like concise and looked him right in
27:31
Speaker 1: the eye. And I thought, damn, that takes guts and
27:36
Speaker 1: like bravery and a lot of I don't know what
27:39
Speaker 1: you call it, gumption, I don't know. But for her
27:41
Speaker 1: to physically and psychologically be able to do that like
27:45
Speaker 1: she was, she was unreal. I props to that girl,
27:49
Speaker 1: because I don't think I could have ever done anything
27:51
Speaker 1: like that anyway.
27:52
Speaker 2: So Christy, nor would you be like Mackenzie's mom, Mackenzie Shriller,
27:56
Speaker 2: I'd be like all about her daughter.
28:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, no the murder, No, I wouldn't. I would just
28:05
Speaker 1: be hiding in the back.
28:07
Speaker 2: I mean if you had to be the mother yeah,
28:09
Speaker 2: of a of a murderer.
28:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would just what a horrible position to be in.
28:15
Speaker 2: I'd bit like lock her up.
28:17
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if it was your own child. It's like,
28:20
Speaker 1: on one hand, you love your child.
28:22
Speaker 2: Hold accountable and you could still love them, But I'd
28:25
Speaker 2: be like you killed someone.
28:28
Speaker 1: So Christina's mother's statement, it was read by a lawyer
28:31
Speaker 1: in court, said, I stand here today in court is
28:33
Speaker 1: a mother who has lost her daughter, whose children missed
28:36
Speaker 1: their mummy every day. She was loving, protective of her
28:39
Speaker 1: children and gave them everything. Just one month after she
28:42
Speaker 1: tried to forge a new path for herself and her children,
28:44
Speaker 1: she was brutally torn from life. No verdict can bring
28:48
Speaker 1: our daughter back, but it can show that her life matters.
28:51
Speaker 1: On May thirteenth of twenty twenty six, the verdict came out.
28:54
Speaker 1: Judge Daniel Schmid sentenced Mark Riben to life imprisonment in
29:00
Speaker 1: delivering the verdict, the judge said, quote, there are cases
29:03
Speaker 1: that make fiction become reality. This case has changed our reality.
29:07
Speaker 1: No court ruling can fill the void left by the
29:10
Speaker 1: loss of a loved one. We as a court will
29:12
Speaker 1: also never forget you and will carry you in our hearts.
29:16
Speaker 1: Prosecutors had argued that Mark acted systematically and with a plan. Obviously,
29:22
Speaker 1: I mean he did buy an anatomy book so that
29:25
Speaker 1: you could learn how to remove a uterus, and he
29:28
Speaker 1: plurches an industrial size blender, and that his behavior demonstrated
29:33
Speaker 1: the full extent of his hatred for his wife. In
29:36
Speaker 1: addition to life imprisonment. This part kind of killed me.
29:39
Speaker 2: So does the death penalty. It was abolished in nineteen forty.
29:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I doubted that that Switzerland had it, because if
29:45
Speaker 1: anyone deserves the death penalty, it would be this man,
29:47
Speaker 1: and the fact that he has a life sentence and
29:49
Speaker 1: not death. In addition to receiving life imprisonment, Mark was
29:54
Speaker 1: also ordered to pay approximately one hundred thousand Swiss frank
30:00
Speaker 1: to his two daughters and over two hundred and eighty
30:03
Speaker 1: thousand Swiss franks to Christina's family, including payments to her father, mother,
30:08
Speaker 1: and sister, and the couple's daughters now live with Christina's parents.
30:12
Speaker 1: I don't know what those payments are going to do.
30:14
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess he was lovey or he was
30:16
Speaker 1: a businessman.
30:16
Speaker 2: So fork all your assets over because you're going to
30:20
Speaker 2: prison for lights exactly.
30:22
Speaker 1: Like, let's say he had way more money than that.
30:24
Speaker 2: How did they calculate that figure?
30:27
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I mean, if anyone deserves the
30:29
Speaker 1: most money, it should be the father that have found
30:31
Speaker 1: her head inside a trash bag.
30:33
Speaker 2: In the laundry room.
30:35
Speaker 1: I mean, he deserves pain and suffering payment. Anyway, I
30:40
Speaker 1: don't know how those were calculated. It doesn't seem like
30:42
Speaker 1: a lot of money. At the end of the day.
30:44
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know money. I'll never compensate it, but
30:47
Speaker 2: it might help with the transition to stay afloat, you know,
30:50
Speaker 2: while they adjust for no parents.
30:53
Speaker 1: Do you have final thoughts on Mark Riben or this case.
30:57
Speaker 2: I hope he gets beat up in prison pretty badly.
30:59
Speaker 1: He probably well, because that's pretty gruesome.
31:01
Speaker 2: I don't know. Help Swiss. Help Swiss prisons aren't as
31:06
Speaker 2: nice as the country. If it's all clean and they
31:10
Speaker 2: have a garden, and they probably do, you know, they
31:12
Speaker 2: can see the waterfalls from like their cells.
31:14
Speaker 1: You to send him to the US and send him
31:17
Speaker 1: to death row. Right, that's where he needs to be,
31:19
Speaker 1: because you're right. Switzerland's beautiful and clean. I bet their prisons.
31:23
Speaker 1: I bet they paint. I bet they painting class probably,
31:27
Speaker 1: and and and.
31:31
Speaker 2: Everyone get next to your easels, probably all right.
31:36
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening. Till death do
31:38
Speaker 1: us part. As always, we encourage divorce as opposed to murder.
31:43
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. Make sure you follow legally Brunette
31:46
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to tell
31:49
Speaker 1: your friends and family. And as always, if you have
31:52
Speaker 1: a case that you'd like us to discuss, please dm
31:54
Speaker 1: me on Instagram and let me know. I love to
31:56
Speaker 1: hear your feedback and your recommendations. So thank you guys
31:59
Speaker 1: for listening. We appreciate it.