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TRUTH ABOUT OWNING A PORSCHE 928 S4 FIVE-SPEED | HONEST OWNER REVIEW · Performance Car Ownership with Gary

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Owned it for 22 years.
0:02
SPEAKER_02: If one person has a problem and he's on a campaign to personally inform every other owner of the But on the first day of shooting, it did leave me stranded at the side of the road, very much to my surprise and embarrassment.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: After running Collector Car Canada.ca, Canada's online collector car auction platform, Dave is enticed by new car opportunities every single week.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: This 1989 portion 928 S45SB manual.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: He's owned it for 22 years 25,000 miles.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Alright, Dave, so before we start talking about the specific car, I really want to talk about uh your history as a car person.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: I know you're a genuine car person.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: I in fact own a car today that I first inquired about before I did have my driver's license.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: Took me 25 years to get it, but I got it.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: I I suppose I was brainwashed by Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Road and Track of the 80s.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: And at the time, those three magazines, I wrote those read those magazines cover to cover in the 80s, which was the decade where I got my driver's license.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: And they liked BMW, they liked Porsche, and they liked Honda at the time.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: That's what stands out in my mind anyway.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: And those three marks over the years that are the ones I've bought the most frequently.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: My life got spicier about 20 years ago when I went over to German cars.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: So what about any specific German cars that stand out?
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, the one I'm driving is something I uh uh developed a taste for when it was reskined for the 87 model years.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: So but there was a man on the corner of one of the crescents.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: He had one of these 87 S4s, so I'd often walk by this house, but seeing it helped me or encouraged me maybe to research the car so I learned the specs of the car.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: And let's face it, Porsche, modern Porsche is about 911.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: I uh I always like that, and I've owned a 911, but I've always kind of liked that the 928 was the quirky 911 alternative.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh at one point, of course, was intended to be the 911 replacement, which is funny to laugh back at today.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: But I've owned it for 22 years, um, and I still love it.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: In hindsight, 22 years ago, investment-wise, I should have bought a used air-cooled 911.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: I would have done better with valuation.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: So, this is significant.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: This, so you started, currently own and operate Collector Car Canada Online Auctions, right?
3:05
SPEAKER_02: Oh, we're gonna talk about work.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you see constantly cars coming across your desk, constantly cars coming up, but yet you've purchased this car and you've had it for 22 years.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: That I think is super significant.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Long before the business, of course, but um it's funny with the business.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: I want them all.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: All the cars we were on, I uh I seem to develop a taste for.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, there's something about this one.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: Part of it's the fact that I do have 22 years with it, I suppose.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: So you had uh 996 that you sold, and uh and that was the impetus for starting Collective Car Canada.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: Tell us that story.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: And I decided to list it on bring at trailer.com, and I thought I was doing the smart thing, going after the market ten times the size of ours, uh, maybe get lucky on foreign exchange.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: And when I waited my five or so weeks for the car to finally go live, all of the all of the action, I don't think they're backed up quite that much now, but uh but yeah, it was a long wait.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: Um But by the when when I got got live, all of the action on the car was within 150 or 200 kilometers of my home in Toronto, sold to someone seven kilometers away, and it made it really made me think, and I got beat up on the price.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: But if that story, you know, if that story about Dave um starting Collector Car Canada as a result of his um experience with uh on bringing trailer, if that doesn't make you want to subscribe, I don't know what else will.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: So hit subscribe, we'll wait.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: I won't say it was the only impetus, but yeah, it it it really was an interesting experience.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: It made me think.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: And now, your buying experience.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: 22 years ago, when you bought this car, where did you find it and what was that was the that process?
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm smiling, it's happy memories.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: It was between a 928 and an NSX.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: And to my surprise at the time, I was not following the collector car or sports car market day to day at that time, like I do today.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: But to my surprise, the 928s were more affordable than the NSXs, which at first seemed too good to be true.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: But they've other than special 928s or the premium 928s, uh, the NSXs still are more valuable.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: So uh just based on cost, I decided between the two, 928 was the one I was gonna chase.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: And uh there was certain years that you were chasing.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: So I definitely wanted 87 plus, yeah, and I definitely wanted a manual transmission.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: Right, which narrowed the market significantly.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: It does, yeah, it does.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Why was the manual so important?
5:41
SPEAKER_02: I jokingly say I I don't know how to drive automatic.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: I I I've always driven manual transmission cars when I was learning to drive 928 S4s like this more valuable than automatics?
5:54
SPEAKER_02: They definitely are more valuable and has to do somewhat with rarity as well.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: But uh people people say to me, Oh, you're so lucky you got a manual for your 928.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: I just sort of dismissed the statement with, well, I wasn't thinking about an automatic.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: If I if I didn't get a manual, I wouldn't have got one.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: I found this and several others in the United States on autotrader.com.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: Um but at the sort of at the 11th hour, this car in Georgia that I thought thought I was serious about.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: You run one of the last steps you do, you run the Carfax, and it had an accident history that wasn't ideal.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: And the car I'm driving today was in Indiana.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I did this, I went through the same exercise with that.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: And I think the uh the seller of this car, he was ready to sell it.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Um as in he gave me a bit better price than I expected to get.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh and did you have a pre-purchase inspection done?
6:52
SPEAKER_02: I did, I did.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: Um as luck would have it, you did you know you talk to enough people and you realize you're connected to someone somewhere.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: So he had he had a shop to recommend that worked on Porsche, and I did have an inspection done there.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: And you know, the normal little things that any 15-year-old car is gonna have.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: But I I was confident uh enough to fly down to Indianapolis to pick up the car.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: I had not technically committed.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I had not, I don't think I'd sent any money to the fella, but he was, you know, he'd been two months at it trying to sell the car.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh he was happy to to uh to have me well, he was happy to send the car in for the inspection, which he would have handled with me being at home in Ontario.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: So often um why people find these cars desirable is because like the bank vault feel and of course the engineering.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Is that what is that what attracted you to this car?
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Or was it just the memory?
7:48
SPEAKER_02: Originally, of course, it was the look of the car uh as a kid.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: And then I first saw that between the time I first saw that car and the time I bought this car, that's 18 years.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: So I would have developed a a desire and a taste for it during that time.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: I would have learned about that bank vault feel, I would have learned about the 32 valve V8 and the 316 horsepower.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: Um so all the sort of pieces came together by the time I was ready to buy.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Alright, so you're down there, you bought the car, you just jumped in and drove back.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: How many miles?
8:24
SPEAKER_02: I don't know exactly.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing it's about a thousand miles.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: Indiana to Ottawa.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: At the time I lived in Ottawa, that's right.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: And uh I've I've done it a number of times.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: It maybe, maybe the viewers will think it's a little naive to just jump in the car and drive such a distance for a car you're not familiar with.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: But between not only that inspection, but the fella I purchased from, I don't think I told you this, Gary.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: He's a he was a mechanic at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: Cool.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: So I that kind of guy, I don't think he's gonna be negligent with his own cars.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: And I like to think 22 years later I did get a good one.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: And uh so probably because of that, you probably weren't too concerned about you know what often people are concerned with a car like this is deferred maintenance.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh yes and no.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: There were a couple of things.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Um I in hindsight, I was uh I was ready to do anything to get this car at the time.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: I I remember being in his garage when he pulled the cover off it, and my eyes just lit up.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, we're gonna own that car.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: Um but no, not big problems.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: The air conditioning didn't work that way well at the time.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: Common and not a huge deal.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: But uh I also did timing, belt, and water pump.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: But no, I I didn't end up with a big maintenance bill uh within a couple years of buying it based on the previous owner's um ownership tenure heat.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: So despite doing a little bit more mileage, uh, I wasn't faced with any big surprises, which was great.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: So this car is all original paint, right?
10:00
SPEAKER_02: Not quite all original paint.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: I it could be, but I believe it not to be.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: The Carfax that I ran for this car, um it it's the the uh details are pretty sketchy.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: It was, I think it was a 1990, so the car only would have been a year old.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: My the all the Carfax reads is minor damage, car and ditch.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: I have a feeling that the driver door has been replaced, but I don't even know.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean the car looks great.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean I certainly didn't notice uh paint not matching or you know, paint on rubber or anything like that.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: So well, if there was new paint in 1990, it's only a year newer than the rest of the paint.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, I suppose two years the manufacture date was 1988.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, when I take the time to clean it up, it it is quite presentable.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, absolutely.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um, but but the the the fact that these cars don't respond well to body work, I understand, uh, more so than other cars.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: I know they have aluminum body, so we don't have to worry about the body panels themselves rusting.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but um my understanding that uh is that they don't uh fare well in the body shop.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: And I guess finding a body shop that could do work on an aluminum-bodied car 30 years ago would have been a tough find.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: I suppose that's true.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh not something I worried about, and I hope not to have to worry about it.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: But I you you it's an interesting point about the aluminum panels.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: You'll feel it maybe when despite the bank vault feel of the door sh closing, the uh the door shell is aluminum, so is the hood.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember if you open the hood yourself, but it it's almost light as a feather.
11:42
SPEAKER_02: But it uh the car's not all aluminum, like the quarters in the rear.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: So um another thing that uh I've heard that is very important with these cars when purchasing them is the interior.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Because the interior supposedly is brutal to try to restore or even repair.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and your car is uh is phenomenal.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: It has a phenomenal interior.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: I won't call it perfect.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm glad you didn't notice it, but there's a particular flaw I could show you based, and it's a result of my own uh uh absent-mindedness one day when I was fixing a little thing in the car.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, the interior is pretty good, no crack dash, the leather, the leather's, and this this grade of leather is they really chose a nice grade.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: We have a sort of a 928, what do we call it, 928 special interest group.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh I actually had it up, but I'm not the most active person on the WhatsApp chat.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: But the guys are often going on about little refurbishments they're doing in all parts of the car, but interiors are are part of them.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, I uh sometimes when I read some of the stuff the guys are doing, I know they they they bought cars, they spent a little less money to buy their cars and they're willing to do some of the work themselves.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not saying I paid the most possible for a car, but I I I like to think, as I say, that I bought a good one and it hasn't needed a lot of that, certainly cosmetic stuff.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: So um if advising someone else on uh buying a 928, are there certain areas that you can look at to kind of ballpark the mileage, if the mileage is realistic or not?
13:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean interior wear is always often a good indicator, right?
13:19
SPEAKER_02: But at any car generally, yeah, that's not specific to a 928.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Seat bolsters, things like that, seat bolsters.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I gotta say, this this leather really is good.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: I I do have a BMW where the interior is very good, but if there's any place you notice where it's on the driver's outer bolster, um, but when you talk about the mileage, it makes me think back to uh in the 80s the Porsche odometers, the gears on the odometers sometimes wear out, and I'd like to say, if you ever find a really low mileage 944, the odometer wasn't working for at least part of its life.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: This year, 1989, part of what attracted me to an 89 over the 87 and 88, which is the the newer body style, was the digital uh odometer because I knew I didn't have to worry about those gears wearing out.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: However, the digital display can come with its uh idiosyncrasies as well.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so one of the unique features of this car is the adjustable gauge cluster going up and down, and uh and I've heard uh from other, you know, uh doing some of my research is that that can be somewhat problematic.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen that or have you heard about that?
14:30
SPEAKER_02: I have not never had trouble with it, but there's one generally there's one driver of this car, so he doesn't really need to adjust it, being myself.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Um I do think it's a really neat feature because in other cars I'm always wanting to put the steering wheel as low as I can have it, and it will often distort my uh view of the gauges.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Um but I haven't heard of anyone in our little group.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: There are probably 40 of us on that chat.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean no one's ever had it, but I don't remember everyone anyone ever raising it.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: If one person has a problem and he's on a campaign to personally inform every other owner of that car about his problem, it kind of gets overblown.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure the 996 owners are thinking about IMS right about now.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's very true.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: So when we look at the 928, then the 928 S4, then the 928 GTS, what are just a couple things that distinguish each of those uh vehicles and what are some just a couple pros and cons of each of those?
15:30
SPEAKER_02: 1989 is the last year of the S4 in manual, but the S4 continued on until 91.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: And the reason they cut off the manual is because 1989 rather uh Porsche introduced the 928 GT for the first time.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: So all the GTs were manuals.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: There were some of each in 89, and then in 90 and 91, all the S4s were automatic.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: So the um the 928 GT, the suspension was tuned up a little more, uh, the wheels were different, there were a few cosmetic differences, and it got about 10 more horsepower.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: The the uh generally speaking, the car isn't that different.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: The nine the GT is uh done up a little bit more for performance.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: And it's funny when I was thinking of going to Indianapolis, I think it was after I booked my flight, an 89 GT came up in Toronto, and it was a couple thousand dollars more, maybe even$5,000 more.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't have faced the same travel expenses and such.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, in hindsight, that was the one maybe I should have bought because they've gone up in value a lot more than the S4s, just because they're the sportier variation.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: But getting back to your question, yeah, 78 was the first model year, uh, a 920, it was a 4.5 liter engine.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh we got the 928S starting in 83 in North America.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: It was a little earlier in Europe.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, it got a 4.7-liter engine.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: This the 5-liter in this engine was released for I think it was the 95 model year being 85 and a half.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: So that was the start of the 32 valve engine, and it carried forward to the S4s and GTs.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: And then that GTS you're talking about, it ran from 92 to 95.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the engine display got up to 5.4 liters and 345 horsepower out of the factory.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: This one was 316, and that GT in between was 326.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's some of what I know.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: 87, of course, the start of the S4.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: That was the big change in body style.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh, previous to that, I call them OB original body.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: And the GTS was done up a little bit more than the GT and the S4, but the body looks quite similar and different from those OBs.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: This car, um, you've owned it 22 years, about how many miles have you driven in 22 years with this car?
17:53
SPEAKER_02: I bought it with 47,000 miles, 47,500, somewhere around there.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: It's right around 72,500.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: So I've driven it right around 25,000 miles.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: Which is significant.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Over 22 years.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: It's significant.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: So, did you ever use it as your daily driver when you're done?
18:09
SPEAKER_02: No, never as a daily, but I drove it more the first couple of years I had it, just because I was probably so excited to have it.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Sure, why wouldn't you be?
18:17
SPEAKER_02: A friend of mine got married in New Brunswick, and I drove it to New Brunswick for the wedding, and that was a lot of fun.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: And and easy driving, you know, highway driving wasn't hard on the car at all.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: So, how how do you use it now?
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the season look like for you?
18:31
SPEAKER_00: When do you take it out of storage?
18:33
SPEAKER_00: How do you use it, and when do you put it back into storage?
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: My business dominates my life now, and I I mostly like that, but I don't have as much time for this car and a couple of others as I as I did before the business.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the bus the car is great for the business, it's it's noteworthy and a conversation piece.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: So most of the driving of this car I do now relates somehow to the hobby.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm bringing it to a couple of shows.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: One of them is a German car show, so I need to bring a German car show car if I want to attend that one.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Stuff like that.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: I did uh, as you know, Gary, I did have it on the track at CTMP, aka Mosport last month.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh the track time was really great.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate what I learned.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: I still have a lot to learn.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: But the interesting, one of the interesting parts for me anyway, was the inspection I needed to have done for the car to be admitted to the track.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: They're very strict about the cars being up to spec to go on the track, which I very much support.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: And leading up to my inspection, I thought, I wonder if I'm gonna have any surprise in the inspection.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm pleased to say the mechanic passed the car with flying colors.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: He was he was quite pleased with the car, so I didn't feel handicapped by driving an old car on the track that day at all.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: So we talked a little bit uh earlier about other cars.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: What else do you have right now?
19:53
SPEAKER_00: What other cars do you want to?
19:54
SPEAKER_02: I have a bit of a rag tag outfit, a collection only a mother could love, you could say.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh I do own another Porsche, it's a 914, and that's the one I was talking about earlier that uh I first inquired about it when I was 15 years old.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: It was owned by the father of one of my high school friends.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: And at that time I never had two nickels to rub together, and it was known as the poor man's Porsche at the time.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: I thought, if I ever have a Porsche, it's probably gonna be a 914.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: I didn't stay best friends with my friend Patty, but I kind of hung around and when it's time for her father to let go.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: I was the call he made, so I felt obligated.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: So that's a that's a lot of fun, very different car from this one.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh I own a 2001 BMW 540i.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: Nice car.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: So that's the E39 generation.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: A step down from the M5, but it probably has 70 to 80 percent of the performance of the M5 with 30% of the headaches.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: And that's a manual transmission car as well.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: I I re I really like that car.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: I've done well with that car.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh is that your daily driver?
20:58
SPEAKER_02: Right now it's my daily, which I feel a little guilty about.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: I ran it through the winter for the first time this past winter.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: I kind of intend not to, but I don't have its replacement for the winter just yet.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh in addition to that, I have a couple of so part of the reason for the eclectic mix of the next two is because each of these is kind of a ticket into other parts of the hobby.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Like you don't show up to a Corvette show in a Porsche and vice versa.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: So I also own um 1994 Z28, uh, that's a convertible, but it's a manual transmission as well.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: And it's got the LT1 engine that the period Corvette had.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: So it's a blast.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: It's not trying to be anything, it's not.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: Sounds great, and it's got some power.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: It's not quite as refined as this car, but that's kind of fun too.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and the other one I looked into early on in the business, I looked into uh advertising with a Jaguar club, and so I was checking out its website, getting to know the pla get getting to know the club a little bit, and of course I Ended up on the Classifieds, and uh an original owner had a 1988 Jaguar XJ6 Sovereign available.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, yeah.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: And he hooked me with the phrase almost immaculate.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: Because if he said immaculate, everyone knows that can't possibly be true, but he really piqued my interest with that.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: And uh so I bought that soon after, and it gets me uh Curry's favor with the MG guys, the Triumph guys, even the Rolls guys, and the Jag guys as well.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: And that car, it was really prized by that original owner.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: I believe him when he said he didn't drive it in the winter.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: It's in beautiful condition, it's worth about five dollars.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: But that's okay to me.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: What color is it?
22:45
SPEAKER_02: It is called Silver Birch Metallic, which is kind of a bronze color.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Getting back to your uh 928, so yours has the original Blaoponk radio on it, right?
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Does AMFM cassette?
22:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's a really big deal.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
22:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: Um when I when I bought the car, I didn't say it in advance of traveling to Indianapolis, but uh when I was speaking to former owner Kevin, I teased him a little bit for not upgrading to a booming stereo with a CD player.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: 2004, he were anyone who was anyone had a CD player in his car.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: And uh he explained to me that oh, when I drive that car, I don't even listen to the radio, I listen to the engine and the exhaust.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: And I thought he was a typical car seller, just put me on rationalizing why he didn't do the upgrade.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: And at the time I certainly intended to do that upgrade, but I kind of never got around to it, and I'm glad I didn't because many people did do such an upgrade, and the subsequent owners, or even those owners, if they still have the cars now, they prefer to have the the original equipment naturally, and uh as a result, these crappy sounding AMFM cassettes are worth into four figures.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the other concern is too that just replacing the um the head unit can cause a lot of electrical gremlins.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's right.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: I um, as you know, I worked in a group of car dealerships in another life, and uh despite not being involved in service, I always wanted to learn from the technicians, and one of the service advisors told me that anytime someone came in with an electrical challenge, the first question is, do you have any aftermarket electronics?
24:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's all that's usually the cause of it.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: But it's funny, you you're probably giving me a little more credit than I deserve.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: The the AM FM radio functions as it would have when it was new.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know if I've come clean with you on this, but the same cassette has been stuck in that door for about 12 years.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the original speakers as well, and they sound I I think at the time it would have been considered good sound, but uh uh by today's standards it sounds like an 80s stereo.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, it does, but I understand even replacing the speakers can cause electrical gremlins uh in this car.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: So again, enjoy what you have.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I like generally speaking, I like to keep my cars original.
25:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh this doesn't have the original rims on it, has the rims on it as the same as one I bought.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: I've since procured a set of originals in case I ever wanted to go back to 16s.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: But um I don't tell other people what to do with their cars if they want to modify their cars, I think they should.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Alright, well, let's talk about those wheels.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: So, sure, you've you've there there's been a couple changes on this car from stock.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: One is the wheels and the other with the exhaust system.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna get to the exhaust system, but what tell me about the wheels.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Why is this wheel setup better in your opinion than what came on the car?
25:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's better.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: I I like the look of it a little bit better, although I replaced the tires this spring, and leading up to replacing them for a couple of years, I thought am I gonna go back to the 16-inch, they call them by slang they're called manhole covers or seven slot wheels, which suit the car, of course.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: Um in the end, I had to get tires quickly because I lost a tire and I wasn't gonna just replace one.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: So without really giving it a lot of thought at the time, I just ordered a set of 17s, which is a lot easier to do than ordering a set of 16s.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I do have that original set that I bought.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: But the current ones, they're a replica uh of the wheels that went on the GTS cars, right?
26:33
SPEAKER_02: So they're called a cup.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: Lots of people call them cup ones because there were cup twos, technically just a cup wheel.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, and they are made by uh a Porsche OEM Bourbai, but they're uh these ones are a replica.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: And uh so what about the exhaust?
26:48
SPEAKER_00: What's the story about that?
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Supposedly that's a very common uh modification on these cars.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: I think it is uh I'm careful where I say this.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Some Porsche purists don't like it when I say basically a 928 is a German Mustang or Corvette because it's a front engine V8 rear drive car, like like those other cars I just named.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: Uh very unlike a 911.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: But um to get the sound out of the V8, a lot of owners opt for a rear muffler bypass, which is basically a fancy way of saying take out the muffler and put on straight pipes.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: And um, the owner of this car from whom I bought all those years ago told me that this car was so optioned, and uh I didn't really know much about it at the time, but as soon as I started driving it, I thought, oh, I love the throaty sound of it.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: But before I started driving, when I went to pick up the car, he gave me the keys, he gave me the cover, and then he handed me the original muffler, which I've held on to for 22 years.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: So, again, if I ever wanted to go back to stock, I could.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, I remember getting a ride in a 928.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: This is uh about eight years ago or so, maybe a little more.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: By coincidence, a friend I met through my work uh owned at '89 as well.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: His was an automatic, and I asked him for a ride in it.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: So we jumped, I jumped into the passenger seat, and I couldn't believe how quiet it was.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: And that's because he was running the stock exhaust system.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know, maybe maybe I'd tire of the sound of this if it was a daily, but I can't see myself ever putting this to daily driver use.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: So for my current use and the use I've had um over the past 22 years, I quite like the rear muffler bypass.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the looks of this car.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: What from what angle, from what view, do you find this car most attractive?
28:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a hard question.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh, because there are several.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Um before I try to explore my answer on that, I will say that I find the look of the exterior of this car still looks modern.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: You climb into the inside, and I think you've you've done some shooting of the interior.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: It looks prehistoric when you climb into the cabin.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I really like the look of the rear.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: I kind of call it, I call it kind of egg-shaped in the rear, interrupted by that spoiler, which is a stock item.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: Um I really like the uniqueness of the headlights.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: There are other Porsches so styled.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if there are any other cars where a retractable headlight, when in a down position, has the lens exposed.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Mayura.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Pardon?
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Lamborghini Mayura.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's a good point.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm not around those very often.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: But of course, then the 968 Porsche is the same.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but those lights, when they're up, I get a real kick out of them because they're they're frameless.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: If you look at them from the front, all you see is the glass of the lens.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: And I also think it's neat how uh later to this car, but early 90s, when when Porsche's models were the 968, the 911 uh in the 993 form, and the 928, all of the headlights look identical when the 968 and the 928 are in the up position, but you don't really notice it because you don't see them up in the daylight very often.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, very true.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: But uh, yeah, and uh I think the profile of the car is really neat.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can see they're even correct on the window switches with the diagram of the window, but the shape of that door window is quite unique.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: There are no uh, I don't think there are any 90-degree angles on it, which you normally get at the top and bottom on the rear side.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, no, good.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: So I don't I I I don't think I have an answer for you at my favorite angle.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: I I do like several angles.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: So what about driver impression from inside the car?
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Rear rear rear three-quarter visibility, um, you know, how the wipers work, you know, that kind of thing, the rear wiper.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um I the rearward visibility is quite good.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: There's a spoiler that I can see, but it really doesn't interfere with my my view outward.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think the wipers do work.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't really use them much.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: I believe, Gary, that I have not changed the wiper blades on this car in 22 years because it doesn't really run in the rain.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: Some mechanic, do gooder, might have done that for me somewhere along the way.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm not really sure.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, and the rear wiper, it only gets used when I hit the wrong button instead instead of a window switch, which are mounted here in the center.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Um it's a very unique setup for the rear wiper, right?
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Because the motor is not in the hatch.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: There's a motor for the rear wiper down here.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: It is quite unique, the uh the way they found a way to get uh a wiper running without having the motor mounted in the in the hatch cover.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Alright, Dave, so let's talk about the practicality of driving this car in terms of speed bumps, in terms of uh scraping the front splitter, in terms of you know the the things that uh us performance car owners uh often have nightmares about.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: How does this car fit into all that?
32:24
SPEAKER_02: It's funny you mentioned scraping the front splitter.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: That's I think we did touch uh something below us on when we were lining up to where we started shooting, but it's I think lower than the front splitter is um a cover, like a skid plate.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: And uh stock they were plastic or poly or thane material.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh I've changed mine to be a metal one.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: So when we heard that awful noise, I'm pretty sure it was the uh the skid plate we heard.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: So on the one hand, I don't like that we touched whatever it was we went over, but on the other, I'm glad the skid plate was in place to protect what was underneath there.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: Um speed bumps, yeah.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: This is a highway car, uh it's known as an autobahn eater, and uh it speed bumps aren't the end of the world for it, it can handle them.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: But uh when I say about it being a highway car, an autobahn eater, I as I I've already said I love having a manual transmission, but this car, the the shifting the gears can be heavy with your arm, the clutch can be a little heavy, uh, and and with the the V8, this car just wants to go fast.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: So when I do drive it into the city, I told you earlier I was at an event last night, had to drive it from one spot in Toronto to another.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Most of the drive was on the DVP, not that anyone gets to go fast on the Don Valley Parkway, but uh driving around the city, heavy brakes, heavy car moving up to the red lights.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Um as I say, it likes to go, it doesn't really like stop and go.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I get it.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the five-speed transmission.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's what's known as the dog lake transmission where the first is is down uh below uh reverse.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Um I've heard people often skip gears when they're driving this car because it has so much torque.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: Is that I believe you've heard that.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't do it much at all.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh I might do it if I have to accelerate quickly on the highway and go third to fifth.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: But there are probably people who start in second gear, which would probably be quite doable.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: I just like shifting gears, so I don't I don't want to deprive myself the enjoyment of doing that.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: And you're in fifth gear on the highway?
34:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, fifth gear on the highway.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: Even with in fifth at even a hundred and ten kilometers an hour, I don't really need to shift downshift to fourth to pass.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: The gearing is such that uh passing isn't too much trouble in fifth.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: And the comfort of the seats?
34:57
SPEAKER_02: I find them quite comfortable.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm interested in hearing your impression.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, I do.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: You could get an option of sports seats.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: This car's not equipped with sports seats.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: I had a 944 I no longer own, had sports seats, and I I think those are a great seat as well.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: I think the seat, I'm not sure if these are called comfort seats like other uh Porsches that aren't equipped with the sport seats, but the the seats in this car suit the character I was articulating earlier about an Audubon eater.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: You don't really need side-to-side support in a GT cruiser.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we talked a little bit earlier about the looks of the car and what angle you you like the look of it uh from and things like that.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you find that, especially younger people, are just surprised that this is even a Porsche or even what it is, or do people ask you, what is that?
35:49
SPEAKER_02: I find people are too shy to talk to strangers generally speaking, but I'll see young people looking at it with that question in their mind, and I'll engage them.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: And I say, Do you know what that is?
36:02
SPEAKER_02: A lot of people, I I suppose it's quite reasonable because you don't see 944s and 928s on the street a lot.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: A lot of people assume it's a 944 because there were a lot more 944s built and sold than there were 928s, and people aren't familiar with the 928.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: So getting back to you when you had your um 996, what year was that car?
36:22
SPEAKER_00: 01996, 2001.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: So it was only 13 years newer than this car.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: 12, but who's counting?
36:31
SPEAKER_00: So sorry, so it was 12 years newer than this car.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Um when you drove both of those cars back to back, okay.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: What were your impressions?
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, like did this car feel more dated?
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Significantly more dated, slightly more David, or just different?
36:47
SPEAKER_02: This car is almost 40 years old.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: It is not a new car by any means, but I still love it.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: I love driving it, I love the driving experience.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: The 996 was a far more modern feeling car, but I think that probably had to do with as much with the layout uh as the characteristics.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: It's a smaller car with the engine over the wheel, other drive wheels.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: It just felt more compact, more nimble.
37:19
SPEAKER_02: You see more 996s at the track than you do 928s, and that is consistent with the the driving impressions I had.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: This is not a straight line car like a 65 GTO is a straight line car, but it's much more straight line car than a 996 or any 911 since.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: I did an honest owner review like this with my friend Kurt.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh huh.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: 1988 uh 911 Cabrio.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh I just did that a couple uh months ago.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: And uh it's interesting how different this car feels, even though it's only one year newer.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's as though it's by a totally different manufacturer.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: As a passenger, what do what do you sense?
38:10
SPEAKER_02: I may maybe I shouldn't be the one asking questions, but I gotta ask you, Gary.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, what do I sense is that how modern this car feels.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: And I can imagine in the day, in the day, it it must have felt day and night, good or bad.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, the purists uh felt this was so foreign to them.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that it felt so forum, uh foreign to them.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: And of course, the engineering that went into this car and uh etc.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: compared to the evolution of the 9-11, the G body 9-11, the Caro 3.2 that uh uh Court Kurt has.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, it's an immaculate car, original paint, you know, similar to this car.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: But but of course, that car was at the end of a 16-model year run.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: It started in 74.
38:57
SPEAKER_02: Of course, it was refined over the years, but he was kind of at the end of the run, whereas this is the third year of a run that began in 1987, so that's 13 years newer than the beginning of the G body in '74.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: So that only makes sense, I suppose.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: But you can see how how it caused a huge division in Porsche, in Porsche customers at that time.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: I see it every time I bring this car to a club event.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: But the kick I get out of it is uh, yeah, some 9-11 people don't like 928s.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: Although they're coming around, people have moderated over the years.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Of course, this is the first clean sheet engineered car Porsche ever produced because the 9-11, even in '65, had roots in other cars, and the 360 356 had roots in carbs that goes by another make.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: I won't mention now, but it relates very closely to my 914.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: Um but uh but yeah, the but the the 911, of course, continued to evolve, and yes, my 0196 did feel a lot more modern than this car, and and as I say, the driving characteristics are 911, they're not 928, they're the two are deliberately different, I think.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: No, for sure.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: But again, you know, when you compare this car with the V8, you know, the four valves per sone, the rear transaxle, you know, and the aluminum body, like it must I remember the car in its day, to me, it was a spaceship.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: Imagine in 1978 how advanced it must have seemed.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: It was car of the year, its first uh model year in Europe.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit more about performance.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned earlier about the 320 horsepower.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh, right around there.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: I think it's 316, yeah.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, 320 uh 16 horsepower, 0 to 60 in under six seconds, uh 160 mile an hour top speed, you know.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: That one I take your word for.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: So so that was amazing for back then, but even now, even now, that's no slouch.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: No, it's true.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: It's uh yeah a Hyundai sonata today, it'd probably be 250 horsepower and they're quite quick, but yeah, that's right.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Over 300 horsepower and under six seconds to 60.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh I can keep up with traffic.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: It's a little problem, a little different when I drive my 914 on a 400 series highway.
41:30
SPEAKER_02: I I gotta coax it into getting going.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: So this car, I mean we just talked about how misunderstood it was, and there's been a lot of common misconceptions and that kind of thing.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Was there misconceptions that you had about this car after doing all the research and you finally buying it, and now after 22 years of ownership, dispelled that misconception?
41:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, certainly even today, I'm not a mechanical expert, but I was much more neophyte when I bought the car.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: So I was, as I as I said to you, it was the first non-daily driver I ever bought.
42:00
SPEAKER_02: So I was quite impressionable.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Um there would have been surprises, not that I was wrong about something previously, more that I just didn't know something previously.
42:14
SPEAKER_02: But some of the some of the quirkiness about this, its quirks are are kind of fun.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh I've shown you a few.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: There's a remote hatch release, not only at the driver beside the driver's seat, but also for the passenger seat.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: There's that tool kit in the rear, which is kind of neat.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh there's a little flap that you need to flip down to refuel, and when you flip it down, there's a message saying oil okay with a question mark to imply that maybe you want to check your oil.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: This car would have had ABS brakes.
42:43
SPEAKER_02: It has ABS brakes, yeah.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, built in it's an 89 model, but it was no, but it was built in 88.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: And the clutch, I mean, as I've said, I I've I've owned manual transmission cars all my life.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm used to shifting gears and using a clutch.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: This is among the heavier clutches.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Talking about the transmission, is there more or less maintenance to um uh 928 with a manual transmission than to an automatic car?
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh, the transmission fluid gets changed every few years, and and that's about it, Gary.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: With the miles I do, yeah, uh I I I don't it's not a high maintenance car.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: One of the things I do on this channel um that sometimes make makes some of uh the people in the driver's seat squirm is we like to talk about money.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: You prepared to talk about money?
43:28
SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll talk a little bit about money.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: A little bit about money.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Are you prepared to share what you paid for this car 22 years ago?
43:36
SPEAKER_02: They were trading in the high teens and low 20s for S4 from 87 to 89.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: When I shopped, I don't remember if there was much of a difference in prices among automatics compared to manuals.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: But today you you usually see a bit of a bump up in price for the manuals.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so around 20,000 US dollars.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Kind of range ago.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: How much is this car worth now?
44:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, I've it insured for$54,000 Canadian dollars.
44:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh, like a lot of the enthusiasts, I have it insured with Haggerty.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: I use its website very frequently because of my business.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: And last year, when I was doing that, I'd often get a pop-up on its website saying, Don't you want to bump up your value?
44:27
SPEAKER_02: They were they were they were convinced that maybe it was worth a little bit more.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't get that pop-up as much this year because I think the as with a lot of cars like this over the past year or two, the values have sagged off a little bit, maybe, but again, not a huge I want to be sure that I'm insured at a course at an appropriate value, but I'm not so concerned about it because I don't really have intentions of moving it along.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: No, no, I get it.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: But if you uh if you saw a car like this advertised for US dollars right now, um what would you say it it should be advertised for?
45:03
SPEAKER_00: What would be a realistic asking price?
45:05
SPEAKER_02: There's so it there's such a range, Gary, depending on condition and original this particular car.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: In this condition.
45:14
unknown: Yeah.
45:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh well, of course, you're asking for US dollars.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: I am I am very much of the mind that a car in the US is worth more than a car in Canada.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: Are you talking about the car in Canada?
45:27
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm talking about the car in US dollars.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: In the United States?
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Sure, that's where you bought it from.
45:31
SPEAKER_02: So this should this if I did a good job of promoting and marketing this car, it should fetch at least 50 US.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: 50 US.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe a little more.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: So that's significant appreciation, obviously, for for a car that, you know, it is a Porsche, but not a 9-11.
45:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, viewers, if you want to make money, don't buy cars.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh it pays for most of the maintenance, maybe.
45:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:56
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but I said earlier, um, I was conditioned by road and track, car and driver, and motor trend of the 80s.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: They had me scared of 9-11s and the Widowmaker and the engine, all the weight behind the rear wheels.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: In hindsight, in 2004, what I should have been buying was an air-cooled 9-11 if I wanted appreciation.
46:17
SPEAKER_02: No one knew it at the time, of course, but it's easy to look back on today.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: 2020 hindsight, right?
46:23
SPEAKER_02: You got it.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: So, what about uh uh current running costs?
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Things like um paying for insurance.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh how much do you pay for insurance a year?
46:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know because the uh policy I have is has several cars.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: I think for this car it's about 800 bucks with the typical uh Haggerty limitations where you know I don't drive it to work, I don't drive it on vacation, I don't drive it to the shopping mall.
46:49
SPEAKER_02: Um I think they asked me how many kilometers I do.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: I always overestimate because I don't want to get myself in trouble if I ever were to have a claim.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: What's the most expensive repair bill you've ever had on this car?
47:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh around 2019, uh my business was doing well well, and I had a little money to a previous business, the one we've talked about, I had a little money to throw around, and I thought I really should get all caught up on the 928.
47:17
SPEAKER_02: So I put about$10,000 into it that summer.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: Um so I would have done timing belts, water pump, uh, put in a new AC compressor.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that'd be AC.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there were other little things as well, and they added up, but uh the appreciation helped my uh state of mind in putting that money into the car.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: But the car had been loyal to me over the years.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: I was glad to be all caught up.
47:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, another expensive repair over the years was the steering rack, had to have that done, but that's over 10 years ago, and touch wood, it's been okay since.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: And through my business, I was talking to the owner of another 89928.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, this week in last, and he's faced with that repair too.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: So, and was there any one thing that shocked you how expensive it was?
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, was it like the air conditioning compressor, or or just one thing that you said, wow, I couldn't believe it's that much money.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: Or did you realize this was a very, very, very expensive car when it was new?
48:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, that that's definitely I definitely realized that when it was new.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: Um I I guess I like to be well informed.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: Again, I was the accountant in a group of car dealerships, so I I have a sense of what parts cost, and certainly uh Porsche parts, you pay a premium for them.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh and sometimes there are alternatives to OEM.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: Usually I like to buy OEM parts though.
48:40
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: Um nothing really knocked me out.
48:43
SPEAKER_02: So um what about so I assume this uses premium fuel?
48:46
SPEAKER_02: 91 I put in it, yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: And how's the gas consumption?
48:50
SPEAKER_00: Is it like outrageous or not too bad?
48:52
SPEAKER_02: Two or three tanks a year.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: When when you're using that much fuel, I I I don't really go to the to calculate liters per hundred kilometers or miles per gallon.
49:04
SPEAKER_02: I think when I'm driving sensibly on the highway, it gets around 20 or 22 miles per gallon, which is quite acceptable for me.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: So one of the fears um that's often expressed in forums and reviews and things like that is that timing belt.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: That timing belt, that timing belt has to be replaced.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: Um have you ever actually heard of a timing belt breaking on one of these cars and causing engine damage?
49:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure in the forums you read about it all the time because they're so dramatic.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: But I never have.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh as I say, uh I'm part of a group that owns 928s, and there's a few kind of accepted technical leaders among them, and the the one of those, of that little subgroup, the one I know best, says your car talks to you, you're gonna hear bad things coming from your engine compartment if your timing belt is about to snap.
49:57
SPEAKER_02: If you continue driving, you deserve to have bent valves.
50:01
SPEAKER_02: And uh, when I take that advice combined with my experience of the maintenance job myself, which I'll describe for you, I'm not so worried about it.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, you didn't use the word interference, the phrase interference engine.
50:17
SPEAKER_02: This one's an interference engine, so if your belt snaps, you get the bent valves like I'm just talking about.
50:24
SPEAKER_02: Interestingly, pre that 87 reskin, they were not interference engines in 928s.
50:31
SPEAKER_02: But uh when I had my time belt replaced in 2019, as I say, um I was catching up on some things, but one thing I worried about because I I don't really follow those forums very closely, I have an awareness of them, I just find them a little dramatic.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: But uh, yeah, there are some people say no matter how many kilometers you do, you must change your timing belt every four years.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: So in 2019 I had had this car 15 years, and I wasn't hearing any of those crazy sounds from my engine compartment, but I just thought, ah, for the peace of mind.
51:13
SPEAKER_02: Of course, I owned an original IMS 996 at the time as well.
51:17
SPEAKER_02: For my peace of mind, I'm just gonna have it changed.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: So I had it changed by a 928 trained mechanic, and uh after he had done the job, I asked him, so how'd the belt look when it came out?
51:31
SPEAKER_02: He said, uh, I could tell it had been used, but it was fine.
51:36
SPEAKER_02: So it had been in the car at least 15 years, and he wasn't too excited about how it looked, but as I say, some of these forums I find to be a little bit dramatic.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: The other one I kept hearing about was suspension bushings.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: Is that something you've upgraded or have concerns about, or another one I haven't had any trouble with.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: No.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: Um I am pretty sure all of the suspension, including bushings, well, I shouldn't say that about bushings, but hard parts on the suspension I'm pretty sure are all stock original on this car.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: Regret about this car, not about buying it, not about having it, not about maintaining it, but oh, I wish I would have had this.
52:18
SPEAKER_02: No, I don't think I I really do have any regrets on it.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh I remember uh the uh my father's best friend who uh kind of looked out for me a little bit after my father passed away when I was only in my 20s.
52:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh he'd been around cars all his life, he'd had a dealer's license, had done that as a living for part of his life, not his whole life.
52:40
SPEAKER_02: But uh I was pretty excited to tell him that I was gonna buy this car.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: And he said, Oh, I knew he was serious if he called me not by Dave, but rather David.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: He goes, David, it's a whole different world with the exotics.
52:55
SPEAKER_02: And when he said that to me, it's funny to consider this exotic by by modern standards of exotic cars, but um when he said that to me, I was I still had the conviction to buy the car, but I was a little nervous about what I might be in for with maintenance.
53:12
SPEAKER_02: But with 22 years of hindsight, it really hasn't been that bad.
53:15
SPEAKER_02: Has this car ever left you stranded at the side of the road?
53:19
SPEAKER_02: When you prepared me with questions for our interview, Gary, I was gonna be very pleased to be able to say no.
53:28
SPEAKER_02: What things, Dave?
53:30
SPEAKER_02: I don't, I don't, I'm not sure about the uh chronology of our video today, but this is our this is take two, and sure enough, you didn't get to that question yet, but on the first day of shooting, it did leave me stranded at the side of the road, very much to my surprise and embarrassment.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: Um a simple little thing, but as I like to say, old cars, yeah, they can make you laugh, they can make you cry all in the same day.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: So we had one of those days on our first day of shooting where a simple little thing, it was just a hose that uh got the clutch fluid about, and uh I lost that.
54:10
SPEAKER_02: And when you don't have that hose, the car will run, but it won't move because I couldn't put the car into gear.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: And and actually, there was another time where it left me stranded, but it was my own doing.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: I once ran out of fuel in this car.
54:26
SPEAKER_02: I was driving on the 401, actually, it was a it was a relatively long trip.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: I think I was driving from Ottawa to Toronto, and there it with this I mentioned earlier about the digital onboard computer, it does give you a range for the fuel.
54:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, I know that it's not accurate.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: It might have been accurate when the car was new, but it no longer is.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: I had enough to get me to the fuel refilling station I had in mind, according to the trip computer, but I got I didn't make it.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: So, one of the things that that's really surprised me about uh spending you know the last hour or two in your car is how tight the structure is.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, for a car of this age, for a car even of 10 years old, uh, for the structure to be this tight, I think that's amazing.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: And I've been in older Porsches with of similar mileage that like 9-11s, where the structure was anywhere near as tight as this is.
55:20
SPEAKER_02: My 9-11 ownership experience, just the the ugly duckling 996, um this that car felt a lot more tight than this.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, we were we've been driving on some pretty rough roads today.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: Sorry about that, but uh uh but I no squeaks, no rattles, you know.
55:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe maybe I hear a couple minor ones, but maybe I'm a little more critical as the owner of the car.
55:44
SPEAKER_02: Car's not perfect, but it's pretty good.
55:47
SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned a few times the community, the 928 community, and it sounds like uh uh it's a very, very strong and very helpful community in terms of someone that actually purchases or owns one of these cars.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're asking about the 928 group.
56:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, we do get together, we kind of do some non-club events actually, so that we could just do our own thing and not have to worry about club insurance and all that good stuff.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: But it is neat to get together with uh with 40 different 928 all in the same place.
56:20
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
56:20
SPEAKER_02: And the knowledge really is incredible.
56:22
SPEAKER_00: How do you feel around 9-11 owners?
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Do you find 9-11 owners are kind of like, oh, that's a 9-28, just keep going.
56:29
SPEAKER_00: Um if you do cars and coffee or that kind of a thing.
56:32
SPEAKER_00: Or do you find that uh 9-11 owners are now becoming more accepting, or is it still kind of standoff?
56:39
SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's standoff.
56:41
SPEAKER_02: I I I like to think people are generally laid back.
56:44
SPEAKER_02: Everyone takes a big long look just because it's uh just because it's different.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: What are the three things you like most about this car?
56:52
SPEAKER_02: I still love the exterior looks of it.
56:55
SPEAKER_02: It's one of those cars, you've heard this phrase before, where when I park it, I almost always look back at it as that I'm as I'm walking away.
57:03
SPEAKER_02: That's a real tell.
57:04
SPEAKER_02: It's a good sign, it really is a good sign.
57:07
SPEAKER_02: Um the driving experience I like.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: I also really like and appreciate the ownership experience I've had.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I've had to put money into it here and there, but for over the 22 years, if I average it out, it hasn't been that bad, and there haven't been any really big catastrophic surprises.
57:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:31
SPEAKER_02: So I am I am loyal to 928s.
57:34
SPEAKER_02: And despite what we were talking about, 911s, 928, I I love 911s too, Gary.
57:39
SPEAKER_00: What type of person should consider buying this kind of car?
57:42
SPEAKER_02: I'd say someone who is interested in the history of Porsche.
57:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's the person who this isn't for whom it's their only Porsche, unless it's their first foray into imports and they're used to those domestic uh front engine V8 rear drive cars.
58:00
SPEAKER_02: But I find a lot of people I talk to about this car who are interested in them are longtime 9-11 owners.
58:07
SPEAKER_02: They don't plan to get rid of their 9-11 or 9-11s, but they they want something to complement it, and usually a person in that situation doesn't need to worry if they get a big maintenance uh expense surprise.
58:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's usually people, I mean, this is true for the hobby car world in general.
58:28
SPEAKER_02: Um they're usually empty nesters who've got a little bit of time to fool around with cars.
58:32
SPEAKER_00: Who should definitely not consider buying a car like this?
58:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh a person who's looking for a daily driver that can be sporty, who for whom a sudden$3,000 maintenance bill is a surprise they can't cope with.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: Um I also think it's not really for the person who's into sort of more rally driving with lots of bends.
59:02
SPEAKER_02: It's more a touring GT car, certainly.
59:07
SPEAKER_02: I guess I don't like that uh little thought about the timing belt in the back of my head, but I as I've kind of hinted at, I I'm mostly over that.
59:18
SPEAKER_02: Um so anyone who's thinking about buying not just a 928, but anything older that's unique, not like a Honda where you can get the parts off the shelf, a Canadian tire.
59:30
SPEAKER_02: Um the first thing they should do, well, one of the first things they should do after buying it is join a club that specializes in that mark.
59:39
SPEAKER_02: Because there are many people just like you who love the cars, and a lot of them have owned them all quite a while, and they have the knowledge.
59:48
SPEAKER_02: Anything that comes up with this car, I am positive someone in our little WhatsApp chat of 40 or 50 members has seen it before.
59:57
SPEAKER_02: You get the part here, here, or here.
59:59
SPEAKER_02: This part's a little better than this one, and you can install it yourself in 15 minutes, or maybe for this thing you want to bring it to that it's a difficult job, you want to pay someone the two hours labor to do it.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_00: And on that note, thank you very much.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you sharing your ownership experience with me and with our audience.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: All right, Gary.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: I I thank you for having me, and you're welcome for it.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: I really enjoyed it.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_00: Now, surprisingly often, the 928 and the air-cooled 911 are the same kind of car person.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: They just chose different sides of the late 1980s portion.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: So Dave's comments about his ownership experience are very pertinent.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_00: Click here to check out my honest owner review of Kurt's 1988 Porsche, 911 Cabriolet, and I'll see you there.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_00: Any questions or comments?
1:00:44
SPEAKER_00: I read everyone.