Latest / Bedtime Stories / Joe Rogan Experience 2560 David Grusch

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Joe Rogan Experience 2560 David Grusch · Bedtime Stories

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: by night all day all right we're up david what's
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: up thanks for having me back on my pleasure yeah
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: well you're the one who's closest to the flame so
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: tell me what's going.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: On i know right so uh living the nightmare is
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: what i tell my friends so it's definitely um been
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: a tough several years or so and uh you know
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: last time we were on Uh, just testified in front
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: of Congress and, uh, the UAP disclosure act of 23 was,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: you know, possibly getting passed. It failed to get passed.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: And then I, um, based on, you know, things I
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: know about the Biden administration, things I heard from the
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: white house, I decided to kind of lay low for
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: a year. So 24, I didn't do too much. And then, uh,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: representative Burleson had this crazy idea to, to hire me
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: as a professional staff member for Congress working for him.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Turns out, I guess I was like the first guy
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: that ever testified in front of Congress as a whistleblower
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: and then being subsequently hired by Congress. I was the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: first guy to ever do that, which is very interesting
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: and very cool. And I do thank Burleson for his
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: leadership on that. And so I did that for about
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: a year and a half. Just finished up, actually. I
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: was like, you know what? I'm staying longer than I thought.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to wait until Labor Day, see where things are.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I worked pretty hard over summer recess in August and
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: decided to, you know, wind down some of my activities
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: because I accomplished a lot of my objectives. We can
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: get into that, obviously. And then kind of move into,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I'll call it my next phase of operations, which includes
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: a little break for me. It's been very tiring. I've
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: been kind of, you know, going full throttle for the
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: last couple of years and whatnot. And so we're really
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: at a, I think a poignant moment in US history
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: with what Trump's done and in the things you've seen
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: in the media and whatnot. And there's a lot of
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: other stuff happening behind the scenes. Cause you know, a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: lot of my work has been private behind the scenes,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: you know, working for Congress specifically representative Burleson.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you the environment. So are there
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: some people in Congress that are interested in disclosure of
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: this stuff and pursue you and want to find out
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: information and, want you to tell them what's going on?
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: And are there other people that are resisting this?
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a big bifurcation of the non-believers
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and then kind of the UAP caucus, although you see
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: more and more people kind of signing on to the cause.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Like I did a presser back in June in front
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: of the Capitol with members, and we even had Brigadier
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: General retired Representative Scott Perry there, who was on the
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: House Intelligence Committee from my home state of PA. And
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: it was good to see other members start showing that
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: they support the cause. But it has been challenging behind
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: the scenes. And I had many SCIF classified meetings with
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the members kind of going over the topological history of
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: this topic and some of the deeper, darker kind of
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: criminal stuff I bumped into and how I worked with
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: DOJ to kind of highlight some of that stuff.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: What kind of criminal stuff?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I was looking into this, and I
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: have to be very respectful of my participation in this
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: because it's an ongoing thing with DOJ. I was following
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the money, bumping into other activities, very much like, actually,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: it's sort of related. If you saw in the news
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: that David Rush, Very similar name to me. It's kind
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: of freaky. But he was arrested with $ 40 million of
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: gold bars. He was a CIA officer. He made a
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: fake continuity of government special access program. And, you know,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: he went under the radar basically doing his own thing
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and getting gold and Rolexes and stuff. And the FBI
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: raided his house back in May. True story.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy has a– Is that gold bars? Yes.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: He had $ 40 million of gold bars.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Where did he get the gold bars?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: From the agency.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: They have them laying around?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't get into all the details of why
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: the government.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute. Hold on. The government has gold bars? Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And this guy just snatched them?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he made— I don't know all the details, but he
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: made a fake continuity of government special access program that
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: nobody was briefed into. He, like, you know, papered it.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: And nobody at the CIA questioned what he was doing.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: And he was like, well, I need, you know, $ 40
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: million in gold bars because of this special continuity of
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: government activity.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute. So that's how they fund some things?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: In gold bars?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: It's almost like in Afghanistan when I was over there,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I'd have guys with briefcases full of $ 100, 000 in cash
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: because you have to pay for things, right? But that
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: kind of makes more sense to me than lugging around gold.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What does like 40 million in gold bars look like?
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I saw the seizure photos. It's a lot.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Can I see what that looks like?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: It's approximately 303 gold bars that each weigh approximately one
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: kilogram apiece.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Yo.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Yo.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of weight.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was looking for a picture.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: There's only like AI photos of it. At least that
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I could find something. So a kilogram is 1.2, 2.2 pounds? Yeah, 2.28
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: or something.
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  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
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  Speaker 1: 600 and... He's got 600 pounds of gold? Yeah. Where
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: the fuck do you put this? He just had it
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: in his house?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: He did have it in his house.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Just laying around?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Bunch of Rolexes and all that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, so he was just going crazy. Yeah.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Well, who knows what he was really going to use
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: the gold for, but that's an open-ended thing, and.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: He was arrested. Was he pretending that he was using
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: it for some disclosure-type deal, or did it have anything
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: to do with UAPs?
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of, but that same ecosystem I
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: bumped into. So his fabricated program was a continuity government program.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So that's like, you know, if something bad happens, people
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: are going to a hideout site, you know, sanitized location.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: And so what I bumped into— unfortunately was like the
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: deep underbelly of the federal government.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: We can get into it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: It's, it's a lot of stuff I've never talked about
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: because it's just very terrifying. And I, you know, I've
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: been through a lot of, a lot of crazy shits
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: and I ended up bumping into a criminal enterprise, uh,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: run out of a particular agency. And, um, it was basically, um,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: getting money through certain criminal endeavors, the most unspeakable type
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: of criminal endeavors, uh, under the cover of certain national
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: security programs.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: That's about as- When you say certain unspeakable, you mean like,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? Like trafficking? Yeah. Like child trafficking?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: So the government was involved in child trafficking for money.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Officers of the government.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: It's fucked up. I briefed members in a classified setting,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: all the details. And I'm highlighting that because- this is
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: how serious this issue is, is there's an ecosystem and
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of good people around these programs in
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: terms of the UAP side.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And I know a lot of them, they're friends of mine,
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  Speaker 2: they're patriotic people doing their duty, but there is like
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: a small little cast system of characters that are part
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: of this larger ecosystem of no holds barred. We're going
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: to do what we want. And We're going to do
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: whatever kind of criminal activity to get washed money for
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: our cutouts. So a good example, of course, would be Iran-Contra,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: which is very famous, 86. And the CIA was engaged
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: in those kind of activities. This has all been exposed
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: all over North and all that to fund the Contras,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: weapons purchases, procurement, et cetera. And a lot of that
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: seemed to possibly be drug trafficking. The government never confirmed that,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: but you look at Barry Seale and his– statements in
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: the 80s and 90s and it's likely that that probably
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: occurred you know yeah.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: It was all through Freeway Ricky Ross yeah that's right
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: yeah Ricky's been on the podcast multiple times that's right
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: that's right yeah he was on what was it like
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: two years ago year and a half ago last time
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: he was on it's funny because he's out now became
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: an attorney while I was in jail found out learned
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to read first okay couldn't read became an attorney in
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: jail Found out that they tried him. You know that
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: triple jeopardy three strikes thing? Yeah. They tried him incorrectly.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: They used that incorrectly because it's supposed to be three
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: different times you were arrested instead of like three crimes
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: that were attached to one arrest. So he gets out
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of jail. Now he sells legal weed. All right. All right.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Lovely guy. Yeah. But he's a great guy. But he
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: had no idea that he was selling cocaine to fund
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the Contras versus the Sandinistas.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: He had no idea. He thought that he was just
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: a slick character that just knew what he was doing.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: He didn't realize that the CIA was literally allowing him
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: to do it. And then we've also had Michael Rupert
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: on the podcast. Do you know who he is? No.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Michael Rupert was the LA narcotics officer that I believe
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: was on C-SPAN. He went on C-SPAN during a hearing
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and he exposed the entire organization selling drugs in South
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Central Los Angeles because- He was involved in it. He
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: was involved in like busting people that were doing it.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: And then they told him he has to leave it
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: alone because it was the CIA. Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: And so when I bumped into that stuff, you know,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: I immediately worked at the Department of Justice.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: That's one level. But like child trafficking is another level.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I know, man. It's really fucked up. And there's a
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: lot of details that are. I have a lot more
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: questions than answers. And I, you know, I worked with
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: DOJ and, you know, from what I understand, I got
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: a gold star and a brief to Kash Patel about
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: it last year. I wasn't in the briefing, but I,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: you know, I was told I got kudos, but it
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: was very disturbing. And so like, obviously a lot of
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: these programs are legal in the sense that there's, in
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: terms of UAP stuff, there's, you know, classified executive orders
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: back in the day that covers them. And, and they're
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: upstanding citizens. And we could litigate like Congress wasn't necessarily
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: brought into the fold enough from an oversight perspective, et cetera.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: But the core of the program does have a legal beginning,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: but when you don't have oversight, unfortunately, certain small pockets
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: of people start doing shit that they shouldn't have. And unfortunately,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I got deeply ensnared in that. There was a very
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: small group of people that pushed me over the edge
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: and I had to do what I got to do
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: to protect myself. I never wanted to be a whistleblower.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I was a deeply entrenched 15-year intel officer, military officer
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: in the Air Force. I was working some of the
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: country's most sensitive issues, sort of going to the White
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: House to brief the National Security Council in my mid-20s
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: on space issues back during the Obama administration. In 2019,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: when I joined the UAP task force and I was
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: tasked to investigate this, I was like, sure, I'll look
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: into it. You know, the special access program or black
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: program community has a lot of dysfunction and maybe some
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: stuff wasn't reported, you know, correctly. And I didn't know
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: really what I was going to find. But if there
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: was a U.S. program, you know, I'd figure it out.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I'd probably get cleared to it and we'd be fine.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: We'd have like a mafia meeting and, you know, that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: and I know why it was complicated. protected the way
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: it is and whatnot. But unfortunately, about a year and
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: a half, about October 2020, is when kind of my
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: life changed. And particular individuals, instead of coming to me,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: who knew me, by the way, personally, I know them personally. Now, Dave,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you're bumping into something. You know, I'm going to defensively
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: brief you. This is what it is. Or, hey, I'm
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: going to slide an NDA, sign this, and I'll read
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: you in. And my colleagues and I joked about that. Like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: we're bumping in the shit. Eventually somebody's going to knock
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: on my door in my office and be like, hey,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I need to talk to you. And unfortunately that never happens.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: It's really tragic because that would have been an easier way.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: But I immediately got administratively nuked in October 2020. And
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: basically they went after everybody around me. My boss at
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: the National Reconnaissance Office as, you know, Major Grush, the
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Air Force officer in the reserves, got walked out of
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: NRO headquarters in Chantilly, Virginia under fabricated personal conduct things.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: And they went after, you know, my chief of staff
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: who worked for me at NGA when I was 15
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: and and co-workers, people they thought were my enablers.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Right. And so.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: And I thought, okay, I could fight this. They're bringing
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: up like my mental health stuff, which we've talked about before, Afghanistan, PTSD.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I reported it. I was cleared of, you know,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: no problems, kept my top secret clearance. And I still
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: have my top secret clearance, but it got very, very
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: scary in early 2022. And I've avoided talking about this
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: for a long time. And I've mentioned in my hearing
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: in 2023, you know, I was, you know, I'm, I'm
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: here in fear for my life, et cetera. Well, you know,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about the criminal stuff. I found stuff
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: that's happened in my personal life and stuff. And so
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: back in early 2022, um, everything's fine. Uh, started, uh,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: noticing some suspicious activity, um, near where I live. And
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I didn't think much of it thought it was kind
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: of strange and I don't want to quite go into
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: all the details, but, Basically, later one particular day, I
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: was sent a message that they can touch me and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: my wife. And they know where we are.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: And what do you think this is? Was this because
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: of the child trafficking stuff? Was this because of some
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: other illegal activity with no oversight?
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: You know, in private environments, I was asked what red line,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: what trip wire did I cross? To this day, I don't.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: know specifically. I suspect based on them, what turns out
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: they were monitoring my classified computer at work, my investigation
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: notes that I would keep encrypted on there, I think
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: they were very worried that I figured out a lot
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: of things. And I still don't know for sure though,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of other things too. I guess
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of jumping around because in early 2021, certain
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: people that were helping me and I was talking to
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: started to experience Havana syndrome symptoms, you know, anomalous health incidents.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: And I know a lot about that. That's another kind
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: of ecosystem. I was an expert in the government. And
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: of course, my first thing is like, huh, did you
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: piss off the Russians or Chinese or some other kind
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: of foreign intelligence service? Because you don't think domestic. And
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what did you do in your career? Were
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: you on covert action programs? Did you like, you know,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: bomb some you know, adversaries building and they're pissed off
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: at you and they hold a grudge. And so I
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: noticed that I wasn't going to equate that to the topic. And, uh,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: but I, I was very nervous about that because people
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I know, uh, we're starting to experience those symptoms specifically, uh,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: microwave directed energy, most likely just based on, um, certain
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: trade craft they were doing to detect it, which I
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: won't get into the details of that. And then there's,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: there's symptomology, so to speak. And so that was frightening.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And in that 2021 timeframe, I was sitting at home.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I was getting investigated by three agencies. And I really
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: didn't know what was going on. A lot of my
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: colleagues were going to continuing on that investigation on my behalf.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And eventually in late 2021, NGA hired me as a
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: 15 off the street, kind of came back into government
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: full time. I was hoping that Um, that agency would
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: protect me against, uh, you know, the CIA and the
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: NRO and certain elements of the DOD that were going
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: after me because of these couple antagonists that were trying to,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: you know, basically, um, push me over the edge administratively.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: But what, what I crossed the Rubicon early 2022 when
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I was sent a message and it was the same
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: day I was sent a message, other people got that
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: message too. So it was coordinated geographically. And, um, Of course,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: you know, I reported that to federal law enforcement kind
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: of intelligence element. And at the time I'm like, well,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: you know, there was a one adversarial intelligence agency that
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: had an interest in me several years ago. And I
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: had a little incident that was actually kind of funny. Um,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: so I wasn't sure if it was like the U
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: S government or even if it was related, um, to the,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: my investigation. And then several, several, uh, weeks later, And
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I was, I get chills talking about this cause it's,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: it's kind of upsetting. Um, I was, uh, in DC, um,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: for a conference on UAP actually, uh, for my, for
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: my agency NGA at the time. And I got summoned
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: to an off books, uh, Senate Intel committee, uh, we'll
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: call it meeting in their, you know, their skiff right there,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: their vault where you could talk classified information and certain
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: individuals were there known to me, um, great credentials. people
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: I've known for a while, uh, in my line of work.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And so was, you know, a dozen, dozen and a half, uh,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: senior staff for Marco Rubio, Mark Werner.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: You know, et cetera, right.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: And in that meeting, uh, we, you know, we talked
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: about the legacy program, the history, many hours, and I'm
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: gonna fly on the wall. Like this is really for
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Senate staff. I'm just kind of sitting in the back and,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: you know, they turned to staff and they, you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: they pointed at me and they're like, oh, by the way,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: you know, these couple individuals, and they named the individuals.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I know who they are. They wanted to
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: kill you. And I know Lou Elizondo talked about it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: But why?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I do not know that for sure. I think, well, so,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: be careful what I say. There are certain presidential findings
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: that allow certain things to protect critical things in the government.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: And my assessment is I was getting so close to
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: exposing it because I was sort of preparing my inspector
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: general's report to the IG that I must have crossed
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: some sort of Rubicon. I still would like to know,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and I hope these people are, you know, brought to justice.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And that's, you know, my wish and dream. And hopefully
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Department of Justice does what's needed, but.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: There's an investigation ongoing right now? Yes, on that.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And that's all I'll say defensively, not to.
• 18:54
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• 18:56
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  Speaker 1: Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1. com slash joerogan. Okay. How
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: much of this do you think has to do with
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: actual UAP disclosure and how much of it has to
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: do with the lack of oversight that allowed people to
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: do illegal activities?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I think some problem children decided to abuse some standing
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: options to protect critical infrastructure in the United States, which,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: for example, that would be like an Air Force flight
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: line a, uh, ICBM silo, um, other activities. And they decided, um,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I was some sort of threat. And it's, it's so
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: disgusting because I, you know, like I said, I was
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: a field grade officer in air force. I was a,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: you know, GS 15, a CIA colonel, Cleveland civilian. And
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting there in Senate chambers and I'm hearing this
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: and I won't get into all the details in a lot.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I heard like, you know, all the details on that.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to like, um, burn my sources. And, um,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: And I just remember how upset the Senate staff was.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And to the point where, you know, a particular staffer, um,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: who's very senior went to his office and got some
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: whiskey and, you know, all of them started drinking in
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: the skiff. Cause it's like, everybody was afraid. Like, are
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: they serious? They're like, they literally were thinking about killing
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: fucking Dave. And like, and I found out that there
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: was a kibosh to that. That's a, Longer story for
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: someday if I could ever discuss the whole history. So
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: it was considered, but then it was kiboshed. Yes, thank God.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And I know how it was stopped, and I owe
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: some people a debt of gratitude, literally. And this was
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: just a few weeks after I was sent a message.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: And even after the meeting, we were finding stuff, and
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: other people were finding stuff to let– people know that
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: they're being tracked. And I know this sounds like so
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: fucking crazy and all.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: That, but that happened. Well, so does someone having $ 40
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: million in gold hanging out their house and a bunch
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of Rolexes.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Never did I think, you know, I'm a very patriotic guy.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I love serving America. You know, it hurts me every
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: day not having the uniform anymore. And knowing that was
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: the level that they thought about going to because of
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: this pandemic interesting interpretation of certain standing options. And eventually
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: in this disclosure process, a lot of that will come out.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I just have to be careful what I say now
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: until the president figures out how to release some of
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: this history, unfortunately.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I understood. Yeah. So one of the things that we
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: talked about before, so you were scheduled for another podcast
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a while back, but flights got canceled when we moved
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: it today. But you were saying that it's actually fortuitous
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: that it was rescheduled.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of things are happening. I see the
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: administration getting really, really serious on this. And I think
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: people don't appreciate the courage that Trump is showing right now,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: ordering the government to release everything we know about this topic.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: It'll be.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Courage how so? Like you think he's in danger from
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: releasing this information?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily, but it's the ontological shock and the history
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: coming out and sort of the outrage I mean, I
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: think it'll be uniting sort of like in post 9-11
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: America after the towers fell, right? You have the fear
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: of dirty bombs and other terrorist attacks, but you also
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: have this like a uniting panacea that kind of brings
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: people together.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Do you think that is equivalent to what's happening right now?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: It will be.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: What is going to happen?
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: So I believe before Trump's term ends that it's all
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: going to come out.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? I really do.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Everything I've testified about, you know, the fact that, you know,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: we've been studying this for a while. We've recovered material,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: aka intact, semi-intact craft. We've, you know, recovered this anomalous
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: intelligence piloting the craft. And, you know, we are reverse
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: engineering that. And obviously there's other parts to that. It's
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: very complicated ecosystem. A lot of people who are just
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: release it all, show us Indiana Jones warehouse tour, don't
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: appreciate the care that we're going to have to um,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: proceed with, because this is not a static ecosystem. This
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: isn't just like archeology where you're digging up stuff. There is,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you are dealing with, you know, third parties, both human,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: you know, adversarial countries, et cetera. They have their own program.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: And then you have, you know, our, this anomalous intelligence,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: our visitors, NHI, whatever you want to call them, ultra terrestrial,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: depending on what taxonomy in the tree that you want to, um,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: ascribe some of this origin to. And, um, And of course,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: you know, the national security related technology that has been derived.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: We've derived great stuff to defend America. I've had exposure
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: on that. And, you know, I'm very reverent to that.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: We've derived it through back engineering. Yeah, yeah. 100%? Yes.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Well, some of it, it was inspiration. It wasn't a one-to-one,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: like we unlocked the iPhone. It was like, huh, that's
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: an interesting material. Look at that frequency selective surface property.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: You know what? We could use that for... an aerospace
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: application or whatever. And so a lot of it was
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: garnered via inspiration, not one-to-one. In some cases, I suppose
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: we did, but that's been most of it.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: So what's the holdup in terms of disclosure?
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I necessarily can't read the president's mind. There's certainly a
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: multilateral kind of diplomatic issue. I mean, so we're in
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: this issue now where once we cross the Rubicon, then
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: we affect allies and adversaries. You know, our adversaries have programs,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: what are they going to tell their citizenry? You have
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: a possible theological distress, Vatican, et cetera. And I'm, you know,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I'm a Catholic and I certainly appreciate, uh, the Vatican's
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: long study on this subject and they've just stayed quiet
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: on what they know. And so it's, there's a lot
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: of like collateral effects. If you're not careful with certain stuff, you,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: you can, you know, trigger a response. And there is
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: great fear that, uh, I don't necessarily believe in this,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: but like there has been assessments in the past that,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: you know, revealing certain things may, you know, trigger.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: A response from a third party. Trigger response from them,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: from these.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Possibly.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Entities. Yes.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: And that is a, that has been written up. Uh,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: so the government think tanks wrote that up and reports
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: the previous president. So the, the, the theory is that
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: we disclose, uh, People are now aware of it all
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: over the globe and they decide to show themselves. Yeah.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's a real fear of like
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: a Ghostbusters moment, I'll say.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, boy. You know, and.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: It's one of those things where I'm trying to walk
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: the line and be as diplomatic as possible and also
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: trying to prepare the populace at the same time, because
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: clearly The government hasn't right now. And I mean, Trump
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: wants it out for sure. His team needs to be
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: astute enough to know what to ask for, you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: massage the deep state and get that information. Because we
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: just saw Tim Burchette on Benny Johnson's podcast talk about
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Stephen Miller called him and was like, hey, I'm getting blocked,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: like physically blocked from access to a lot of this stuff. And,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: you know, that's very concerning. I would say Stephen Miller
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: is an alpha dog. He's a pit bull. And as
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: a fellow alpha, I do appreciate his.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: That's a silly thing to say. Yeah. You know that, right?
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: What?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: A fellow alpha.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Fellow alpha.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: It opens yourself up to, like, tremendous amounts of ridicule. Yeah,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I know. I mean, nobody's perfect. And I know everybody
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: has their faults. But I do appreciate the fervency. He
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: is attacking the issue behind the scenes. And I just...
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I think he needs... Guided the right way and informed
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: and kind of how to cut this deal.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I met him very briefly at the UFC event at
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the White House and he told me that it's going
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to come out. I'm like, okay.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: That's good. Well, there you go.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: It was really quick. Yeah. He's like, I know you're
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: interested in this. This is literally all we talked about.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: The UFO thing is going to come out. Yeah. I'm like, okay, when?
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: When's it coming out? Let's go.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And Trump understands the subject pretty good and he's
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: in the know and– he understands some of the implications.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: So I, like I said, he has a lot of
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: courage because this is likely going to change society in
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: a big way. I can't necessarily, I'm not like a
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: social anthropologist or a psychiatrist. Like I can't necessarily predict
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: in what specific ways it might reduce, you know, fetal
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: nation state peer competition and other things. Uh, but it
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: is going to change. And I, and I think when
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: people look back at this interview, it's going to be
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: very haunting because I think in short order, you know,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: before Trump leaves office, uh, we're going to be in
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: a new paradigm. And I'm normally a very pessimistic, cynical person.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: A lot of my friends know that, but I have
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: great confidence that the president is doing the right thing.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And I feel there's eventually going to, the people that
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: are in charge of this are going to have to
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: comply with the president's order. But there's a right way
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: of doing this, I think. And I, like I said,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not some sycophant for the deep state. I'm a whistleblower, obviously.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And I have philosophical differences about how this was kept
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: and how they could possibly reveal stuff. But I am surprised. confident,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: which is, which is kind of weird for me to say,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: because I just see the tea leaves. I know Miller's serious. Um,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: there's other people in government serious. I mean, even see
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Aaron Lucas, the PDD and I, the deputy director of
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: national intelligence, you know, sign these big NDA waivers. It
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: includes like any kind of waiver of not even telling
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: the president, sorry, you have to tell us kind of thing. And,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: And so you're seeing kind of the chessboard being set.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I know everybody's not happy with the tranches coming out
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: with the low-hanging fruit videos and recordings and stuff. And
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Representative Burleson and I, before I left his office recently,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: got a 1952 recording that was still classified from Blue
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Book talking about the seriousness of this issue and all
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the crazy shit that they're seeing near nuclear sites and
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: test ranges, which is interesting because.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: In that video that's been declassified, it mentions the very
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: sites that in modern day have that same anomalous activity
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: to include stuff in the Southwest. I can't say where.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: It's in the ecosystem, in the open source, but the
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: executive branch hasn't acknowledged what specific test and training range.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: They're seeing crazy orbs that they can't explain, just accost
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: helicopters and all that.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: So is Trump experiencing resistance, in your opinion?
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Yes. Um, and I don't know all the details, but, uh, clearly,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: clearly Miller has, and a lot of it is, I think,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: and I can't read the mind of the deep state,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: but as a former deep stater, uh, I would say
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: that there's always been this kind of disdain for political
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: appointees and they don't, and members of Congress, like they don't,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: they don't have the reverence on this issue. They're going
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: to fuck it up. They're that they shouldn't have about
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: a classified program. And that's why some classified programs are
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: kept from Congress. It's called waived programs. And the only
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: presidents that were really, really involved were the ones like H.W.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Bush, right?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: He was CI director. He was fully briefed on this issue.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: A lot of that lore is true about H.W.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Bush.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Cheney, like I've talked about, fully in this. He was
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: the mob boss for many years. He was kind of
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the head of this activity. And So I think there's
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: some testing of the waters right now. It's kind of
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: like cat's paw dynamic, like, you know, we'll give you
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: And they're seeing how the administration is going to potentially
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: roll this out. And obviously, if the White House wants
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: my opinion, I'm available. But I do trust the president's
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: team hopefully will be able to handle this. And because
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: if Trump doesn't, enforce his order and see this through,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think any other president is going to be
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: able to. I mean, regardless of Democrat, left, right, whatever,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: like if he follows through on this, he's going to
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: be the goat. He's going to be a legend. And,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: you know, all the other things people have problems with
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: in his presidency, Iran, whatever, I think this will wipe
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: those out. And this is like really important for his
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: legacy to initiate the process before the 28th election. And
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: then there's like a hot handoff to the next election. um, administration. And,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: you know, if Trump's a political animal, he could easily
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: line up a Republican team on the 28 ticket to basically,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: you know, be as continuity on this too. I think
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: that'd be very smart.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And so this is going to take a long time
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: to release. Is that how you're projecting?
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: That was always the plan back in the day. I just,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: because it's like an anesthetization and climatization process. It's like,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: you know, OK, we're going to focus on this topic.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Everybody's this is going to get normalized. The temperature is
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: going to cool and then we're going to bring in
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: this shocking thing.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: So there's a there's a schedule like in terms of
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: like the psychological impact on the populace in.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: The past in terms of certain government think tanks wrote
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: classified assessments for previous presidents on this. I don't know
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: what the current plan is. I'm currently literally a private
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: citizen right now. But if they're going to do what
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: they did in the past, it is... And the slow
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: rollout has its pluses and minuses. I would say due
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: to human factors, risks of adversarial countries getting ahead of us,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: other whistleblowers, whatever, you probably have to roll this out
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: in at least 12 months and whatnot. But we're in
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: a precarious time if the administration doesn't start because... China
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and Russia could take advantage of this moment now, our weakness.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: You know, China has their famous Belt and Road Initiative.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: China has admitted publicly that they have a UAP task force. Obviously,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: they have more than that behind the scenes. And they
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: actually announced that when the DOD UAP task force was announced,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: you can find a news article from June 2020 in
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the South China Morning Post, where they talk about they're
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: analyzing these encounters, they're using AI, etc.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: So Do you feel that China has, or do you
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: know if China has these crashed vehicles as well?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: There's parallel programs.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: There's parallel programs. Now, one of the things that Diana
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Pasulka said and Gary Nolan refers to in the same
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: way as well, they refer to them as donations.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's really interesting is I am aware of
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: certain historical retrievals where they were like perfectly landed and
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like a crash. And what's going on there.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sure we've done a deep assessment. I had never
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: had access to that kind of information. I'm sure that
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: we understand why that happened at some level, but that
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: is true that that's actually happened.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: So the theory is that they want us to find
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: these things so that we can examine the technology and
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: perhaps work from it, back engineer it, or like you
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: were saying before, gain inspiration to try new. Yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, Part of it's like throwing the gorilla banana,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: see if it can peel it. But also, the more
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: skeptical intel officer in me is like, well, is this
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: a Trojan horse? Do you want us to figure things
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: out and then get addicted to a certain type of technology?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: And then that creates a control loop where they start
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: handling us, whether we need raw resources to maintain a
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: certain technology.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: They, as in this intelligence, whatever this is, this non-human intelligence. Right.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: So if it is a donation, do you feel like
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: this donation is evenly distributed amongst world powers?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I do not know the statistical distribution. That's
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: very interesting. I never understood the total number of retrievals
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: in other countries participated.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: But there's supposed to be quite a few in the
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: United States. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: That's for sure. I don't know the answer to that, actually.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I'm sure... there's a statistical analysis that will come out
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: in this process.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's any shared information between these governments?
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Do you think they communicate?
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: There is a gentleman's agreement. The top layer of it
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: I can talk about, and I've talked about it previously,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: so it's not anything super new. If you look at
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the accident measures agreement of 1971, which is the short
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: title of this god awfully long title treaty that was
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: signed in September 1971, you'll see Article 3 of the
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: treaty talks about UAP. And hey, if you see any
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: unidentified objects around your nuclear or critical comms facilities, please
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: call us, bro. And that was between the USSR and America.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: And then in 2013, the classified annex of that treaty
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: got declassified. You can find it online at George Washington
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: University National Security Center. archives, but it gives the nuke flash,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: like the red line, like code to say it was
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: like Adam two, two, two, Adam three, three, three, and
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: that's all declassified. And he would send that to the Kremlin. Like, Hey, uh,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: we see fucking weird shit around, uh, possess. Uh, it's
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: not us. It's not a false flag and vice versa.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: And so there was a red line comms for UAP
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: activity between, uh, Russia and the U S and of course,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Russia and U.S. during the Cold War had a mutual
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: notification treaty for a space launch vehicle and ICBM launches, etc.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Weirdly enough, we've never had that with China. Even to
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: this day, we don't have a mutual, this is crazy,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: we don't have a mutual notification. If they're going to
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: do like a submarine launched ballistic missile test off their coast,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: they're not obligated by treaty to tell us. And sometimes
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: they don't with certain national security activities and And so
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Northern Command, NORAD, Missile Warning Center, other places, NSA DEFSMAC
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: in Laurel, Maryland have to be on their A-game to
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: make sure it was a test, because the Chinese aren't
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: obligated to tell us. A crazy story in that regard,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: the Indians did something like that to us. I was
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: on duty in the NRO Operations Center, and by the way,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I got this clear through security, so NRO, don't shank me. Basically,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: there was an unexpected Indian missile test that hit one
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: of their satellites in 2019. It was like March of 2019.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Hit one of our satellites?
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, not our.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: One of their defunct weather satellites.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Their own satellite?
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, their own defunct weather satellite.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: On purpose or an accident?
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: On purpose.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: They shot down one of their own satellites.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they didn't tell us. I remember in my office,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I had all these different phones. I'm like calling the embassy,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: all this. I'm like, what the fuck? And because we
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: were worried at the NRO about the debris because we
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: fly spy satellites. That's the mission of the National Reconnaissance Office.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: And I was the backup director of intelligence as a
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: reservist at the operations center where I was also handling
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: the PDB for the director. And I led the director's
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: briefing team. And I'm like going to the orbital analysts
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: on the watch floor with all the crazy screens, like
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: calculate the debris field. You know, let me know if
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: we have to maneuver something and blah, blah, blah. And
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like running up to the director's office in my uniform,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: you know, out of breath. I'm like, holy shit, you know.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: And it was kind of a big deal. And that's publicly,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: you know, you can Google that now. And I remember
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: when that went down, it was pretty crazy.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: No, it sounds completely insane.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So are there other countries besides China, Russia, and us
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that supposedly have access to these vehicles? Yeah. Which other countries?
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Can you say? That I don't want to get into
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: because that gets into some sensitive stuff.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Right. Supposedly, this is like one of the best legends,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: that there's a craft that's so large they couldn't move it,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: so they had to make a building around it, and
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: it's supposedly in Korea. Allegedly. I don't know. Oh, yeah,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: you do know. How dare you? But you've heard that rumor,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, online.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I've heard that rumor online, yeah.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: You don't know anything about that? Yeah.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: We'll let the federal government do that.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Do you have any personal experience with any of this stuff?
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: You know, it's funny you ask that. As far as
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I can remember, I have no experience with the phenomenon.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of people in this, I guess, ufology
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: or whatever you want to call it, They have that
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: personal experience like, oh, yeah, when I was a kid,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I saw an orb or whatever. And I have zero.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I've seen a couple interesting things in the sky that,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: you know, could have been satellite passes. I've been an
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: amateur astronomer besides having a physics degree. I've been an
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: amateur astronomer since I was like a middle school, like 12,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: 13 years old. And and I still have never seen
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: anything in my personal life. in a stupendous nature. I've
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: never had any kind of spooky woo stuff happen.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Never been visited.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: No. And, and, and that's why, like, I was open
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: to this, you know, I'm a child of the 80s. Well,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I grew up, I was born in the 80s, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: most of my childhood was in the 90s. And, you know,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I watched X-Files and Star Trek Next Gen. And, and
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: of course I'm like, you know, I'm a precocious teen
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: reading like a brief history time and, you know, Isaac Asimov,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm learning about the Drake equation. I'm like, there's
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: probably life, but who knows? And I'm, I'm open to it.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, when I got into the intelligence community,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: that's like the first thing I looked up, like on
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the web, I'm like on the computer. I'm like, I
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: go onto a certain database. I'm like typing in area 51,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: you know, UFO, like everybody's done that. Who's gone through
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Intel school, whether they admit it or not. And of
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: course I didn't see anything or anything. The only thing
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: I bumped into early in my career in like 2009,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I remember reading the OSAP, the defense intelligence reference documents,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the DIRDs. And at the time, I had no idea
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: what they were doing. Turns out it was obviously UAP related,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: but I was reading, why is the DIA looking into
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: magnetohydrodynamic propulsion and cloaking and all this other stuff? And
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: of course, I find out later what it was, but
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I had absolutely no personal experience and even professionally for
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: most of my career. Now, I found out behind the
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: scenes later, like, oh, you remember that? top secret program
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: you're working on, Dave, you were actually looking for UAP.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: You didn't know it. I'm like, what? And of course,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I find out and I learn about, you know,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: how they hit all this infrastructure and they used a
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: lot of conventional national security intelligence collection architecture to basically
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: facilitate this crash retrieval program, which makes sense because they're
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: not going to reinvent the wheel and, you know, totally
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: have a separate infrastructure to use to like figure out
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: if stuff crashed activity, et cetera. And, um, you know, early,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: I would say about 10 years into my career, I
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: remember some imagery analysts saying, Hey Dave, you know, like, uh,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: they told us to airbrush some stuff out of photos
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: and stuff.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: And it was round.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, dude, well, maybe that's something you're
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: not clear to or whatever. And I do remember that.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: And I I had some suspicious recruitment earlier in my
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: career too. I was on some really sensitive stuff that
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I ended up finding out it was, um, directly adjacent
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: to the program. And I went through this whole like
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: smoking man recruitment thing for a year and, you know,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: was told I was going to get these kind of
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: bizarre accesses. I'm like, what are you talking about? And
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: ultimately I was never recruited. And I kind of just
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: like put filed that in the back of my brain
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: for years. But like I've said, uh, you know, before
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: it wasn't until like spring of 2017, I was at
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: the CIA briefing, the deputy director staff on a bunch
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: of DOD classified programs. And the chief of a very
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: sensitive office at the agency pulled me aside and was like, Dave,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: what do you know about UFOs? Like, I hear there's
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: like a program at the Pentagon and all that. And,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, I don't know, like, I'm briefed almost
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: every DoD program at the time, by the way, and
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: hundreds of programs in the intelligence community because I was
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: in a position of very high trust. And I'm very
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: patriotic and I'm very humbled that I was in a
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: position like that in my 30s. And I didn't think
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: anything of it until this subject got more popularized, people
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: went public, Tom DeLonge, TTSA and all that.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: And then I.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Was professionally interested, but not really working on it in 2018.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: And then early in 19 is when I got brought
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: on as the NRO rep to the then Navy Task Force,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: which became the DOD's UAP Task Force. That's kind of
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: my origin story. And so I'm always been curious, but
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I never saw evidence and I never had any personal
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: experience with the phenomenon that kind of colors my judgment.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: On this, I guess. Yeah. So I'm sure you're aware
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: of how put off when he was tasked by the
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Bush administration along with a bunch of other thinkers to
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: try to come up with pros and cons for disclosure.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew some other people in that meeting and
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I verified that meeting took place. And even Arrow admitted
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: in their volume one report, which was horrible, that's a
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: long story, painful, that it took place but it was
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: just a hypothetical event. scenario at a federally funded research
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: and development center in Northern Virginia. What year was this? 2004.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: It was like November of 2004. And it's like, but
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: why was it hypothetical if it's not real? Nobody explains that.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: And obviously the story is, you know, Steve Hadley, who
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: was the national security advisor, uh, sponsored it. You know, I,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I believe Hadley denies it, but you know, who knows
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: if Steve would, uh, you know, tell the truth on
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: that just because of the sensitivity.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: So And so for people that don't know what happened,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: supposedly they brought in a bunch of different thought leaders
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: and they gave them a pro and a con side.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Like what would be negatively affected by disclosure, what would
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: be positively affected by disclosure and attach a numerical value
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to each. Correct.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: They had like a computer system there that like tabulated
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: everything from what I know talking to other attendees or so.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Virtually every one of them had more negative than positive.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: And so the decision was made to not disclose. Well, yeah.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: And the main decision, if I remember correctly, was the
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: federal contracts fraud. Well, that could be debated in the
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court. But they realized a lot of– so this
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: is another issue of disclosure. Besides the ontological shock and
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: people can't handling it.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Misappropriation of funds.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and misappropriation of funds and all that. It's– oh,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: so– these set of contractors got sole source contracts and
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: exclusive access to this for internal research and development, where
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: they figure out something and then sell it back to
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: the government, et cetera, for all these decades. Well, what
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: about my mid-level small business and my contractor and blah, blah, blah?
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: And so you're going to, they were afraid that you
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: would see legal challenges going to the Supreme Court in
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: violation of what they call the DFARS, right? The Defense
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Federal Acquisition Regulations. And the government would be liable for
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Who fucking knows billions of dollars worth of monies that
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: they spent on this to these contractor partners that got
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: in back in the day and like, well, we're not
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: exposing any more people. We're locking it down. And what
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: they call a J and a justification and approval for
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: a sole source contract. This is a race national security.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Like we can't expose any more people to this. And
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: of course, That also causes a brain drain in groupthink
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: and actually hurts the defense industrial base. But that was
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: the main reason. It wasn't, oh, you know, upcoming millennials
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: that are turning 18 can't handle it. It was like, yeah,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: we're kind of culpable in kind of a fucked up
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: contractual relationship. And that's going to be something that the
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Trump administration is going to have to deal with. It's like, well,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: how do I reorient– the defense and industrial base. I mean,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: this could trigger a golden era of innovation in America.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: More people get to play. You overtly can take the
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: basic information that's not sensitive and put it into academia, right?
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: So you have undergraduate, graduate, postdoctoral programs, and you actually
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: create this like more educated workforce to actually benefit national security.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: But in China doesn't have this issue. They're pulling people from,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: pick a university in China, Nanjing, whatever university, and they're
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: sucking them into these programs. But in America, we don't
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: have that kind of permissive totalitarian environment. Well, in China, they.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Probably don't have the issue with misappropriation of funds and
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: lying to Congress.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: No, CCP, baby.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Do whatever you want. They do whatever they want. So
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: they don't have to worry about liability. So this is
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: one of the things that came up in that film
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Age of Disclosure.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: You're going to have to make some sort of an
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: amnesty program.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm— I am for that as long as it's, like,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: use immunity for specific testimony or.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: As long as it doesn't cover, like, this other shit
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: that you're talking about.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Like, my... And, of course, I know who's watching, people, clearly,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: that are from this ecosystem. You know, I would... expect that.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Everybody's been basically good Americans. There's a small cast of
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: characters that have done unspeakable things. I mean, hell, they
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: wanted to fucking kill me. It's disturbing. And you wonder
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: why I had to become a whistleblower. I didn't want
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: to do this shit, but I was pushed over the
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: edge to do that. I digress, but... Besides like blue collar,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: really fucked up criminal shits, which, you know, once again,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: there is a judicial justice process in America. You know,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: we're not going to do street justice here. We will,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: you know, take care of that professionally. Like I took
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: care of the other criminal stuff I found out professionally.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like, look, I'm, you know, and when I was
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: doing that, I mean, I was meeting people, body armor
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: armed with colleagues of mine that were, you know, rolling
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: heavy too. And like, it was a very serious thing.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: part of my investigation. But yeah, I believe in amnesty,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: but I think we need to do it like a
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which was in post-apartheid South Africa
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: in the 90s, where you had, you know, some white
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: farmer comes in and it's like, yeah, I murdered a
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: bunch of black people or whatever. And it's like, okay,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: thank you for telling us that. You're good. You know,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: don't do it again and move on. I mean, I'm
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: distilling it down, but that's essentially what the TRC in
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: South Africa was. And I think something like that would
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: be very additive and good because I mean, I have
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: friends that run the program.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: They're great guys.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: They're bros, you know, and gals. And they, you know,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: were signed paperwork. You know, it was like if you,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: you know, divulge this, it's under penalty of treason. You
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: get 11 worth or, you know, capital punishment.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah. Let's break down what you know.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: And what you can say. Yeah. What are these things
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: and what are they capable of? So.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: There's like physical and non-physical, I'll call it UAP and
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: intelligence we're likely dealing with. So for example, the orbs,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: could that be sentient plasmoid?
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Possibly. Sentient plasmoid. So plasma that has consciousness.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: In some way, and that could be like you're seeing
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: the other side of some sort of wormhole and it's
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: some other intelligence shooting this I'll call it like plasmoidic
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: probe into our existence. I mean, this is, of course,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: a theoretical framework. And once again, I don't have a
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: PhD in astrophysics.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: But it's theoretical that there is a life form that
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: is a plasma-based life form.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: And there's already papers on the open internet about this.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, what's the title of the paper?
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: They wrote about this possibility. So this is a academic
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: assessment of a possibility of the orbs. Now, Could the
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: orbs actually be physical craft, but they have a sheath
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: of plasma around it? Interestingly enough, OSAP did a defense
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: intelligence reference document on magnetohydrodynamic propulsion, which if you remember
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: the movie The Hunt for Red October, that's the Caterpillar
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Drive on the Russian submarine back.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: In the day.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: And of course... With MHD, you can also do it.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: You have to use a conductive fluid, either sea water
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: that has salt in it, or you could do it
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: in the air, but you have to create a plasma.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: And you steer the plasma. It's called the Lorentz force.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: It's basically of a perpendicular magnetic field, a large amount
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: of electricity, and you can basically, through the Lorentz force,
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: which is like ionic propulsion sort of, control it in
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: the atmosphere as well. And you can read papers on
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: that in IEEE, and other stuff like that. And so
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: one of the byproducts of an air-breathing MHD system is
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: plasma around it. So depending on the size of the orb,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: it is conceivable that there's a physical craft behind it
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: as well, just as an artifact of the propulsion system.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Once again, that's a theory. I'm sure the program knows,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: and that will be communicated at a later date. But like,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: you know, that's, yeah.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: So this theory about sentient plasma.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Is it the idea that we have a very narrow-minded
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: view of what life can be and that life, as
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: it evolved in other places, in other parts of the universe.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Went non-corporeal at some point. Like, the meat suit sucks.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: We're going to be an energetic.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Or consciousness may be ubiquitous and exists in everything anyway. Yeah, certainly.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: And I'm not the expert. And I would say the
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: consciousness theory, I like the Penrose-Hamerov-Ork-OR theory, which is the microtubules,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: the room temperature. So microtubules are in neurons of the brain.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: And you have this room temperature quantum system that can
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: collapse the wave function without an observer. And that's what
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Roger Penrose and Stuart Hamerov, and I've talked to Hamerov,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: crazy smart guy he's an anesthesiologist by training and Penrose
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: obviously is a very famous mathematician and physics legend and
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: that's how they view consciousness I'm not saying that's the
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: exact model I happen to prefer it because it's very
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: trippy and very interesting and does explain spooky action and
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: like telepathy because oh well if it's just a quantum
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: system then I'm like quantumly entangled oh that makes sense
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: now like why remote viewing and other stuff works.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Right yeah okay So you have some sort of plasma-based intelligence.
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: And then what else?
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: So obviously there has been the physical craft of all
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: different flavors, like I've talked about it. You know, the
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Tic Tacs are real. There's eggs. There's different types of discs.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: There's boot heel, sunfish-looking things, boomerangs, crescent moon-looking craft as well.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: And obviously all those have different– origins in terms of
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: pilots and whatnot, there's a, there's a little bit of overlap.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: It's almost like certain people like the Porsche 911 or
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: a Ford Mustang, they kind of build the same shape.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: And that's probably indicative of the technology or the propulsion system.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not an expert in exactly why that is. And yeah,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: we've recovered, you know, several, several different types. And it's a,
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: it's once again, it's a taxonomy where it's almost like, Like,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: not all white people look the same, right? Same idea
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: where you might have, like, a species per se, but
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: then there's sort of, like, subsets.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Right. Now, is there a theory or is there information
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: based on where these things are from and that they're
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: different ones or from different places?
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: There is, but I never got access to that. And
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: even if the information was– because, once again, how would you,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: like– confirm that as a skeptical former human intelligence officer,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: you have some sort of NHI communicating to you, oh,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: I'm from star system X, Y, and Z.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Is that denial and deception, you know, activities? Are you misdirecting?
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: You're from somewhere else. So even if they said, they
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: told us, how would you verify that? I mean, there's
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: certainly obviously ways. And, but some of it seems, once again,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: extraterrestrial is part of the pie here, right? There's, you know,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: there's ultra terrestrial and other things. And I, it does
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: seem like a lot of it's been here for a
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: while and also seems so similar to us that I
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: have questions. And once again, this isn't rhetorical. I don't
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: know the answer. It's like, well, is this bioengineered? Is
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: this a break from our tree? Is this some sort
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: of other technology? uh, like chameleon type technology, if you will.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know the answer to that. So I,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the prevailing theories amongst the
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: people that are working on this. So like, do they
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: have answers or do they just have theories? I am
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: not certain of that because I do not have that
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: level of knowledge. And as the government rolls that out,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to you know, parse that with the American
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: people in public and kind of explain my opinion on
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: things as gaps in information for myself is filled in
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: because I'm not omnipotent. I didn't have full access and
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: I only know what I know. And that's why I've,
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: I've treated this with such reverence because even me going public,
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck, I don't know what this is going
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: to trigger besides my own personal safety, which clearly I
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: was under duress and, and I had to even resign
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: my air force commission, didn't even fully retire. And I'm,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: trying to get that fixed. I, you know, filed something
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: with the Air Force Board a year ago so I
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: can actually retire and have my benefits because I, you know,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: I miss my promotional lieutenant colonel and other stuff.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: But I digress.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: But certainly there is such similarity that there was a
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: concern from a genomic perspective and there was work on
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: that to compare genomes. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: to that and what they found out.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Work to compare genomes from biological samples? Yeah.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Dead cadavers.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's real.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, 100%. So there are dead. Oh, yeah.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: I know that for sure. How do you know that
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: for sure?
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: I got to see the audiovisual on that stuff.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: You got to see what?
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: So I got to be a little vague only because
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: I want to protect the sources because it may indicate
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: a specific activity or operation. And these people were very
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: patriotic and they were just dead cadavers on the ground
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: because it was a retrieval activity.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: You saw them physically or you saw video of them? Video. Video.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: So you saw a dead cadaver that was at a crash? Yes. Okay.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: So they filmed the crash and they filmed these cadavers.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: How old is this footage?
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: It's contemporary.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: It's contemporary.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't want to reveal a particular operation
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: because it narrows it down.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: But it's clear. It's not like you're looking at 1950s
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: black and white. Yeah. It's clear.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: And do know, you know, when I get that kind
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: of information, you know, I'm like, Hey, tell me what
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: it is, what, what happened? And I put it out
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: for collection, so to speak. And then I confirm it
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: independently because I was very allergic to any kind of deception, right?
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Like in the, in the advent of AI, sore AI,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: you can, you can create a very realistic. And so
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: I was very anal retentive when I was given documents, audio, visual,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: et cetera. And I sat on that stuff for like
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: years until I felt comfortable. With that not being some
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: sort of limited hangout or deception activity.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: So, yeah. What did it look like? Human looking. How human? Very. Like,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: looked like a human or looked similar to a human?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Very, very beautiful.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Beautiful?
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: And I said this.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: What color was the skin?
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Bluish white.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Like Avatar?
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: It wasn't super close. No, no, no, no, no.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: Like someone who drowned?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Like a pale sort of albino. And, and it's interesting.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: And I said this in another interview, that's not out yet, but, and,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: and God willing, this is my last interview for a while,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: hopefully in predisclosure environment, you know, and, uh, uh, general McCaslin,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: when he was talking to DeLong and this is public record,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Tom's talked about it on, I think your show and
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: other interviews where he always told Tom, think of the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Greek gods and, and, Oh, true. You look it up.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: And now I kind of understand what he meant. But
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: General McCaslin, who disappeared within a week of Trump giving
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: the declassification order on UAP in February 2026. There's a
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: lot of reasons why McCaslin's disappearance was very concerning. He
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: walked out of his residence in Albuquerque and vanished.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's right. That guy. Yeah.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: And nobody knows. And I, you know, I have a relationship, obviously,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: with Justice and Nobody knows what fucking happened to the guy.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: And he like, he left shit home so he couldn't
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: be tracked. I think his phone was left, but you know,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: one of his firearms was missing.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: It's like very weird. So. Right. He left without his phone. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: That was one of the weird parts about it. Yeah.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: And, and once again, he was going on a trip
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: with like 18 of his friends. He went to REI
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: the day before to get like a medical kit and
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: other supplies. And I mean, obviously his wife's, Discussion about him.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: The body cam footage is public. And, you know, he
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: had some mental health issues, nothing major and some aging
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: type issues. But she didn't think, you know, he was
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: going to like kill himself or whatever. So, I mean,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: you never know. And I've had friends, unfortunately, pass away
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: through suicide in the military. But it's very bizarre. And
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: it's when within a week of Trump coming out. And
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: just say I know a lot about General McCaslin.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Well, there's quite a few scientists that were connected to
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: UAP disclosure or UAP potential back engineering projects or mysterious projects.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Possibly. I think... Do you think there was more like...
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: To be fair, it was a little overblown. And I
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: don't think there was a ton of correlation. Like one
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: was like a female that worked at Air Force Research
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Lab when McCaslin was a commander. I think that was
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: one of them. Well, I mean, there's a lot of
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: people that work at Air Force Research Lab. That doesn't
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: mean it's necessarily related to the topic. I.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: But didn't that one particular lady, if it's the same person,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: didn't she have some sort of research that was on
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: material science?
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: That sounds correct. I'm not totally conversant on all the
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: people that disappeared. The only one besides McCaslin that was
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: very concerning to me was my Air Force friend that
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: died mysteriously about two years ago.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: And.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: it's an open investigation, so I won't get into all
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: the gory detail in my assessments. Um, it, I mean, it's,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: it's binary. It's either a very tragic thing, either self-harm
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: or otherwise, or it was something else. And my friend, uh,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: his name's Matthew Sullivan callsign quake in the air force.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Him and I were on active duty together. Uh, he
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: was on the program and he was, uh, one of
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: my sources. And I, and I, once again, I don't
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: name people, but like, he unfortunately has passed. So I,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: want to make that clear.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: This video, do you think this will be a part
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: of disclosure? That we'll get to see this video of
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: these dead bodies?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Probably.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of audio-visual stuff. The problem with the
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: current climate, you're going to have to wheel out the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: physical evidence, too, because people are... The trust in government
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: is so low right now. You could show a video
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: and people are going to be like, oh, well, that's
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: just the U.S. government fucking with us. You're going to
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: have to curate a wheel out literally, like, you know,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: put it in the Uvar-Hazy Center, the Smithsonian, and then
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: give the biological samples to Eric Weinstein, who I know
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: he wants it.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Why would you give it to him?
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Well, he says he has people to test it. I
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: have people to test it, too.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Give it to me.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying that to make fun of him.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: It's all ridiculous. There should be a way that human beings,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: other than the government, can look at this stuff.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there needs to be an independent verification process.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Right. Now, is this stuff– so this is contemporary, this
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: dead body thing.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: And so this is a fairly recent crash. And did
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: these things have all the characteristics of a human being?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Did they have ears and a nose?
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as far as I can recall. And it wasn't
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: like ultra close up.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Did they have hair? Yeah. They had hair. What color
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: was their hair?
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: It was like grayish and all that. The problem is,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: I don't want to give the nature of the video.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: It wasn't. super close up. It was like during the operation.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: So it's not like.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: During the operation of retrieval. Okay. And then they, they
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: had these things. So what is your understanding of what
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: happens to these bodies?
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, they're kept for analysis.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: And how do they keep them? They freeze them. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know the exact process. I'm not a biologist,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: but they do put it in some sort of preservation status.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: So, huh. Yeah. So was that the most compelling thing
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: you saw?
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, because, you know, it couples with, you know, both
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: the craft and the alleged, you know, occupants. And there
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: was some other stuff in that in that area that
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: I got to be careful talking about because it's so
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: specific that it'll easily ID the, you know, the patriot
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: that helped me on that. And once again, I want
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: the public to see all this stuff. And you don't
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: don't take my word for it. Plead with the president
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: to make sure this comes out. He's really courageous to
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: do so, and I just hope this all comes out.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: When you say contemporary, you mean last 20 years, more recent?
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: I don't even want to characterize it, but it's contemporary.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: And then when you say Greek gods, like did these
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: creatures actually look like something special? Like not just like
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: a regular person. You said beautiful.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just very oddly. And it's been a while, but
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to visualize in my mind.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: It was just very, very beautiful. Were they wearing an outfit?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: It looked like it, like some kind of form-fitting thing,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: but I didn't get a good look at it.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Like spandex? I don't know.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't get a good look at it, honestly.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: You didn't? No.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was like a pan.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. So they didn't even focus on the bodies? They
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: just like, oh, there's a body.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: No, because people had a job to do.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: Right. Did you worry that that's a psyop, that you're
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: being shown something that's horseshit?
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I was very careful with that
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: and confirmed it through other sources and methods to make sure.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: It wasn't some sort of hangout from some government element
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: trying to sway me one way.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: Or the other. So you independently verified that there was
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: an event? Yeah, I did. Okay. And then there's footage
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: of this event. And in this footage of this event,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: how many bodies were there? I think three or four
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: is what I saw. I don't know what the total was.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: Did they have gender?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Looked amorphous to me, but once again, it was a pan.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: Long hair, short hair?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Long.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: All of them? Yeah.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: That I can recall. Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: The Greek gods thing is very weird.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: It's weird and– It's a weird comparison.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Like you stop and think about that. Yeah. Well, why
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: were the Greek gods so beautiful.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: And living in the sky? It's funny you say that
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: because like I think about like breakaway human. I mean
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: once again, I'm just.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Or maybe even an original civilization that existed before.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: There's more people are leaning in that direction when they
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: start looking at some of the stuff that's underneath the pyramids. Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: some of the weird structures that they're finding all over
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: the earth. Like how, how are these things? We had
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: a whole podcast yesterday about it. It's like, how are
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: these things made? Who made these things? Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I followed Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson just,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: you know, casually. And, and I do have, um, not fears, but, uh,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: you know, I have questions about some sort of breakaway
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: human civilization and that explains some of this or it's bioengineered.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Cause like for them to develop naturally, uh, say off planet,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: say it was extraterrestrial, that it looks almost dead ringer
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: like us. Like that doesn't make any sense to me.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Well, does it make sense if we're engineered? Then it
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: makes sense.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: That is certainly a possibility. I have questions about that too.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: This is what Bob Lazar believes. I had a long
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: conversation with him about that. He thinks that human beings
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: are a product of genetic, some sort of manipulation.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: And I think hypothetically, if that ended up being verified
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: in some way, shape or form, you know, how, how
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: does that change humanity? What does it mean to be human?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of deep human sovereignty
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: and other questions that On that, if that ends up
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: being the case.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: Well, it gets weird because we're willing to believe that
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: an omnipotent God created us out of nothing. That's cool.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: But the idea that we were visited by what's essentially
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: almost God-like in their powers and abilities, some creature from
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: somewhere else or some being, some super hyper intelligent being
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: from somewhere else. and they manipulated us, that bothers us.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: It's weird. My biggest regret was not getting access to
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: the biological assessment reports and stuff like that. I was
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: getting enough spears thrown my way, and I was in
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: literal danger, so I unfortunately wasn't able to get access
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: to that stuff.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Have you talked to anybody who did get access to it?
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Not on that side of the program in terms of
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: the scientists analyzing the bodies, no. I know people that
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: are good friends of mine that were on retrievals and
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: saw them as well in person. And once again, I'm
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: like comparing like, did you look like this? Did this happen?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Was it this type of craft?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Do they vary in terms of what they saw? Yes.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: And some of my colleagues saw them alive as well.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And what did they see alive? Like the Greek
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: god looking ones? No.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: It's the pop culture. I can't wait to talk about this.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Like greys?
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Reptilian looking.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Reptilian.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: The greys, yes, as well. Those are real. Once again,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: the aerial school phenomenon in 1994, very well documented, mass sighting.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Is that Zimbabwe?
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, near a uranium mine.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: And they saw small gray beings coming out of a
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: lenticular disc craft. Once again, this is why it's almost
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: like not that shocking. It's like, yeah, they look like that.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: No shit. Well, that story has been going on for
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: a long time and that iconic. The problem with like
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: iconic imagery is that now you have it in your
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: head what to expect. And like that was like from
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: the movie Contact. Remember the movie Contact? Like it showed itself.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Great movie.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: Great movie.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: I know my boy Amar, I got him hooked on
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: that movie. He watches it like every quarter.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: It's a phenomenal movie. But there's a scene in the
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: movie where the alien shows itself as Jodie Foster's dad.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: Because it's something that she can handle.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: And that's what, it's funny you say that, that's what,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: if they're bioengineered, then that makes sense because of that.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: Ease of contact, ease of communication, also less ontologically shocking,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: it's familiar. And I think as this rolls out, I
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: think the American people need to think about like, okay, well,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: if I'm presented with this reality, how would I react?
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: I just think of them personally as like, it's like
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: my West Virginian cousins. It's like a different part of
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: the family, But I'm cool with them. That's fucking crazy.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: I'll chill with them, whatever. Hey, I'm a nerd. Do
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: you know how bad I want to just hang out
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: with them?
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: Not that I have personal bias for President Trump to
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: do this, but just like any American, I want to
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: know more.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: I want to meet them. I want to communicate.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's just– You know all that. It's
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: wrong for some people to have access to this information
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: because I think this is different than any other kind
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: of secret information. I know. I think its weight and
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: its significance and impact on the human race in general,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I demand. We should know. There shouldn't be
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: a group of unelected bureaucrats and defense contractors that have
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: access to this stuff. And the general public doesn't. So
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: they have a completely different map of the world than
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: we do.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: I know. And I just think about the unfortunate lies
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: and how society has progressed over the last several decades
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: and where we could have been if this was handled
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: back in the 50s, 60s.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: And 70s. Right.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: And once again, it shouldn't even be me doing this. Like,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: I saw a little bit of crazy shit. I learned
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: some stuff. I met with some of the most senior
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: people in government to confirm all this, you know, at
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: the highest, highest, highest level.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: And.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: it's me.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: Like I'm just a dude. Like I'm, I was a,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: you know, major in the air force and, you know,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: mid-level senior civilian in the IC. But unfortunately I got
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: stuck with this and it wouldn't have happened unless the
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: small crew, you know, honestly pushed me over the edge. And,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: you know, I, I was an unbelievable duress and I
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: ended up having to go public.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: So tell me more about these reptilians that your friend encountered.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: They were alive. Yeah. So they were alive post-crash? Yes.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Why do these things keep fucking crashing?
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: So some of it is NHI versus NHI.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: They wore in the sky. Isn't that in the.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: You think it's like, would they get along? They're so advanced. Yeah.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: But we have records of them fighting. fucking around with
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: Is that in the Mahabharata or the Bhagavad Gita? I
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: don't know. Talk about sky wars in ancient Hindu texts.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, in the Vedic texts, the blue people. And
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: I know that's why you asked blue. I don't recall
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: them being that blue, but, you know.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: I got a short little look.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe when they're alive, they're darker.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: Well, that is true. There's like a post-mortem change.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: In their affect. Sure, like people. That's what happens with people.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: That is true because, you know, as they... were struggling
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: and then died, obviously their affect changed.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Now, this friend that encountered, first of all, we'll go
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: to the Greek god people first. What did their craft
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: look like?
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: Boomerang, crescent moon, usually. Not all the time. It's kind
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: of like once I go back, some people like to
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: drive the Porsche 911. That tends to be not all
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: the time, but that's what they like to roll up in.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: They talk about them as the tall whites.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Were they tall? Were they large?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: Looked tall to me.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: But hard to tell because you don't– I didn't have a.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: Ground reference really. I would say at least human size.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: Just like very similar to humans to you. Yeah, that
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: could be my big ass of 6'6. But like the–
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: they looked big.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: Similar to humans.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: I think so. And there might be taller. Once again–
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's other stuff I don't know about. I'm
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: sure there's other variants of them too that look more
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: towards like the classic, what is it in ufology, like
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: Nordic or tall whites that are probably even taller. If
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: some of those experiencer stories are true, which once again,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: as long as that source is credible, that might be
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: a thing. So I think we need to be prepared
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: to kind of that being a thing.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. Now, the reptilian craft, what did
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: that thing look like?
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: That one is Tic Tac looking.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Uh-oh. Yeah. I was hoping they were the cool ones.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: The reptilian ones are the ones that everyone's terrified of.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and once again, like, we're doing, like, and of course,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: it's not always the Tic Tac, once again, kind of
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: like what I said, but, like, that tends to be them.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: From what I understand, obviously, hopefully I'm not wrong, but I'm,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: you know, pretty good sourcing on that.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: When you see like malevolent behavior, right? It's like, well,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: that's a humanistic lens. You're seeing like a animal lash
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: out in captivity kind of thing, or they're in duress.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: They're having an emotional experience, et cetera. And it's like,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: you know, are they actually scary or is it just
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: because of the situations we've been in with them? And
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: so we're kind of biased.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: And all that. Right, of course. And so these reptilians,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: what did they look like?
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: Now, I've never seen them personally. Right, but what did
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: your friend describe them as? It's like very almost like.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: Seven foot tall plus, sort of gorilla looking, scaly skin though.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Reptile gorillas?
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: But there's multiple types. There's ones that are more humanoid looking.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: There's multiple types of reptilians.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not an expert on that one. Once again,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: I never saw it in person. They get the exact descriptions.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: See if there's an artist rendition. Of course you are.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and once again, it sounds so schizo. It does.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: Gorilla with scales.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Ex-Deep State intel officer. I'm like, I cannot fucking believe
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about this shit on Joe Rogan.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Scaly gorilla.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: I know. I mean, it sounds schizo. And it's like
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: coming from somebody like me, you know, who is a
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: credible person and has been in government. It's like, I'm
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: going to be that guy. I'm going to be that guy.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: And then, like, down the road, people will review Joe Rogan.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: And he's like, that motherfucker? We thought he was crazy, but.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: What do you know?
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: You know, it's true. Well, of course, if there are
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: things from somewhere else, you're going to sound crazy describing
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: any of them. Because it's so outside my experience because
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: I never had some kind of woo thing growing up
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: or some sort of interaction with the phenomenon. So it
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: feels so outside my personal comfort level and experience because
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: I'm relying on the personal experience of others, you know,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: audiovisual stuff. And it still feels like I'm watching a movie.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Like it's like, is that? Is it real?
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know it is, but I have a
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: cognitive dissonance a little bit.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: And how are you able to watch this video? Do
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: they have to put you into a secret room? Yeah.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: I won't get into the exact way it went down,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: but we'll just say it was kind of sketchy but
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: to keep everybody safe.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: And so there apparently is NHI versus NHI warfare.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: We've documented that.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: Documented it.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: In collection, what we perceive as warfare.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: Conflict.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like conflict. It smells like conflict. Is
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: it some other kind of weird shit? I don't know.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: There's maybe an assessment on that, but.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: It And when this reptilian craft crashed, the assumption was
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: that it was some sort of conflict? Because I would
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: imagine that they're the ones you'd have to worry about.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: Because there was dead greys there, too.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Oh. So the greys and the reptilians were duking it out?
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: You know, I know the people who were there.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: This sounds fucking insane, David.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: It sounds fucking crazy. And once again, I don't want
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: to get in too many specifics because this is a
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: very unique, there's a couple unique retrievals out there that
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: protect the innocent and people that have risked their fucking lives.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Because a lot of the people that came to you
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: with that kind of information, I mean, they were physically
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: threatened like me and all that. And so, like, me
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: going public was taking it for the team because I
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: was able to create this umbrella of, Of tacit protection
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: in case somebody got fucked with. Now, unfortunately, my friend Matt,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: who knows what happened to him, but tragically he died mysteriously.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: Now, these reptilians, what was their craft like?
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, like I said, the Tic Tac stuff.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: And was their craft crashed into the ground, like broken up? Yeah. Okay.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: It was like wedged into a hill.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Like had it been hit with something?
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly what. what happened in that regard.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: But it did crash.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: I don't want to misspeak on what exactly happened. And
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: how many times has this happened, if you had to guess?
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know the total number of adversarial conflict crashes,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: but it seems to be at least a dozen or two.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: So at least a dozen or two adversarial crashes. And
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: then there's the high-altitude nuclear tests. Right? You're aware of those, right? Okay.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of speculation that during those
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: high altitude nuclear tests that crafts that didn't know it
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: was coming got rocked. Do you know anything about that?
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: That's an area that I'll let the government handle. That's
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: because it gets into vulnerabilities and what the U.S. has
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: figured out. So that just gets a sensitive area, but
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: that's something I'm sure that'll come out in this process.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: Because So you can't talk about that? Is that what
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: you're saying?
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just because it gets into U.S. capabilities and what
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: we figured out in terms of– Well, this is all
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: like from the 50s, right? Yeah, but we still got
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: nukes and we still got those kind of weapons stashed away.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: You're aware of those– it was– what was it, Jamie?
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Was it a telescope that they were taking photographs of
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: the stars and they were doing it with– Do you
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about?
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: All the dots popped up thing?
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: Yes. I guess it was like two or three weeks ago.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: We talked about that a couple of weeks ago. It
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: was an observatory. And the observatory has these old plates
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: of images that they took of the sky.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, is this Beatrice's work?
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: Yes. The Vasco? Yes.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I read it. Very interesting.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: It's hard to make an exact conclusion if it's UAP,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: but it's... Really great original scholarship, and I applaud her
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: for doing that.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: But there appeared to be moving reflective things that were
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: outside of our atmosphere that they were taking images of.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: They were not static. They were not stars. Pre-Sputnik, too.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: That was the important thing. Yes, pre-Sputnik. Very important because
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: there was no satellites at the time. This was images
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: that they took of the sky that showed things that
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: were reflective, that seemed to be metallic. Allegedly.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: And if I remember her paper correctly with her co-authors,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: it also, there were cluster concentrations over sensitive nuclear facilities
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: and nuclear testing. Chronological temporal correlation as well.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: So data shows unidentified lights in archival astronomy images were
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: 68% more likely to be imaged 24 hours after a
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: nuclear weapons test.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I was saying.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: Right. So this is chronologically... Like, we have these nuclear
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: weapons tests, including these high-altitude detonations like Operation Starfish Prime. Yeah.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: We detonate these things, and then all of a sudden
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: these crafts start showing up. Like, hey, what are these
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: fucking crazy monkeys up to?
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: It does seem like there was a heightened amount of
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: activity once we started testing nuclear weapons.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: Obviously, this phenomenon's old. It's interacted with man in antiquity.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: You know, Jacques Vallée' s scholarship on that, passport to Mangonia.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's why the names of our rooms at the
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: comedy club are Fat Man and Little Boy. Oh, nice. Yeah,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: because that's what ushered, because it's the comedy mothership. It's
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: a UFOs-based thing.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you go to the Air Force Museum, they
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: have the Enola Gay there, I think. Is that right?
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: It's one of the planes.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: My alma mater is going to crucify me for getting
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: that Air Force history wrong at the Air Force Museum
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: in Dayton, Ohio.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: It's pretty cool. They have a mock-up of the Little
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: Boy and Fat Man bombs, so you can see how
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: big they were.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: You're like, holy shit, that was big. One of the
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: things that Lazar said is that one of the objects
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: they were working with was very old. And he said
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: that they had somehow, that it was told to him
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: that it was retrieved from an archaeological dig.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know about his specific story and his exposure,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: but the archaeological thing, that.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: Is a thing. Are you aware of the labyrinth at
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: Hawara in Egypt?
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: No. What is that?
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: Is that the one where there's a metallic object?
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: But what's-his-face won't let people go in it from the objection?
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: Well, it's complicated. It's a little more complicated than won't
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: let them. But there's definitely resistance to it. So these labyrinths,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: this incredible compound that's underground was documented by Herodotus. And
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: he said it was greater than Giza. He said it
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: was much more spectacular construction.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: So now they know from ground penetrating radar that these
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: cavities in the ground, these symmetrical rooms exist. They know
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: where they are and they know why they're flooded. So
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: they're flooded because during the 1960s, they built a dam
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: to divert water for agriculture. And when they did, they
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: changed the water table and it flooded this labyrinth area.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: And when they use this ground penetrating radar and I
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: think it's radio tomography and a bunch of the different
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: ways of, One of the things they found was a
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: 40 meter long metallic object that's in some sort of,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: is it in an atrium? Like it's in some sort
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: of a large room?
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: I've seen a video about this. You're recalling some stuff
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: I've seen just casually online.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: Just imagine if that's what that is.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: It's like the movie Stargate with Kurt Russell.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: If these people had been worshiping this craft And so
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: much so that they built this incredible temple and put
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: it in the center of their temple. It's a 40
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: meter long metallic object. And the metal apparently is of
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: unknown origin. Like they don't know what the metal is.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: It's not registering as copper. It's not registering as steel
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: or iron rather. They don't know what it is. Interesting. Interesting.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: It's fucking weird.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I won't be surprised if some ancient
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: civilizations were essentially cargo cults, you know, for these visitors.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: That is most likely true in many cases, not all.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: And of course, that gets into theological areas that are touchy.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: But I do think that that's probably the case.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: The central object is hard to classify. It appears metallic,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: not stone or wood. I named it Dippy after the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: giant Diplodocus skeleton in the Hintze Hall of London's Natural
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: History Museum. It could be anything. Its shape resembles those
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: tic-tac hard mints. It might also be an upright disc
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: or even a colossal shen ring, the ancient Egyptian symbol
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: representing the eternal cycle of creation. The big object alone
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: raises profound questions. How did it get there? Why is
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: it there? So show him some of the artistic recreations
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: of what it looked like underneath the ground. So this
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: is all, you know, like I said, Herodotus wrote about
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: this thousands of years ago. But now it's documented that
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: these chambers and these pathways actually exist. And there had
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: been people that had studied at least the upper surface
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: levels of it as recently as like the 1800s.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But that, you know, through all like a lot
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: of Egypt, there's a water under Giza. There's water under
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: the pyramids. There's water under, you know, a lot of
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: that stuff is flooded. And so this is what it
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: looked like. This is all underground. It's fucking crazy because
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: if this along with Filippo Biondi's work where it shows
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: using that same satellite radio tomography that there's some sort
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: of structure underneath the pyramids that goes over a kilometer
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: into the ground.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: Is there easy access or is it just like a
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: government denial, the Antiquities Bureau, whatever they call it?
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I think there's been some progress in terms of
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: allowing exploration. And I don't know the extent of it,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: but I know that a lot of people are very
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: hopeful that that progress is. going to be achieved, like
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: they're opening up this research, and look, this would be
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: a giant boom to the tourism industry. I mean, that's
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: what they want. I mean, Egypt probably survives, I don't
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: know what percentage of their economy in Giza is tourism,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: but it has to be massive.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you always hear interesting stories, you know, I
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: have an eclectic a group of colleagues and you hear
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: interesting stories at the queen's chamber, the granite pillbox and
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: people have had interesting experiences in there too.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: And, and, uh, well, the king's chamber, that sarcophagus. Yeah.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: It's that like perfectly cut granite box that also, I
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: think it mirrors the exact dimensions of the arc of
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: the covenant.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: That's, that's crazy. But I know people who've laid in
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: it because they have to kind of pay the guard.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: It's like off hours. And what happens?
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: And they just have like a weird transcendental experience. I mean,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: it's kind of woo. Once again, I've never experienced something
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: Let me lie down there, bro.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: That's a thing. That's a thing. I'll let you know
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: who to talk to offline.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: How much do you think it costs to lay in
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: this box? A couple hundred bucks?
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: Egypt, 20 grand maybe.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: 20 grand.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: Whoa.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 20 grand. You could like sleep there. Yeah.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very strange because the structures themselves are incredibly strange.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: The structures themselves are so immense and so complex and
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: the methods of construction are completely unknown. And just the
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: symmetry and the precision of the engineering is beyond comprehension
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: for people that lived at the very– the most recent
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: it could be is 4,500 years ago. And a lot
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: of these people think it's far older than that.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: And we're finding that. I've been watching some of Graham
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: Hancock's stuff. You just look at these like megalithic architecture
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: that's older than you think, the stuff in Turkey and
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: in the United States as well, in Ohio and Mississippi.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: And it's like, and they're finding all these pyramid structures
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: using synthetic aperture radar. So I am casually following it.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: And it does seem like we don't really even know
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: our own history. And I think with all this coming out,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: there's going to be a huge rewriting of a lot
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: of our ancient and modern history.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: Well, that's where it gets really weird. You know, Rep
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: Paulina Luna was on the podcast.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: She was talking to me about the Book of Enoch.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: I hadn't read it. She's like, you have to read it.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: And I've read it twice now. And I'm like, what
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: in the fuck are they talking about? Like, the Book
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: of Enoch, which was also found with the Dead Sea
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: Scrolls and Qumran. And it refers to the Watchers who
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: came down and mated with daughters and created this race
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: of giants. And it's like, What? Yeah.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: And you think is like now when you're when all
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: this comes out, was that actually literal?
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: And, you know, right.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: And of course, the Bible Council Nicaea was more of
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: a political document before secular government. And, you know, they
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: got together like, what are all the different books that
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: we can agree upon that are good? Yeah.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: What gets into the canon? And that's the thing about
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: the Book of Enoch is that it was it was
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: not put in there because it didn't jive with the Torah.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: Yes. Which is like, OK, you fuckers. Imagine if that
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: was in the Bible. Like, if you go to church
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: and you read about the Watchers.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: Well, there's actually a lot of interesting stuff in the Bible. Like, obviously,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: that's another thing, like, of course, with, you know, I'm
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Catholic by growing up. CCD confirmation did the whole thing
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: as a kid. And you see a lot of outspoken
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: exorcists and other people right now saying, well, all this
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: alien stuff is just diabolic deception and demons and, you know,
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And I and I
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: respect that opinion. And I do think like what you
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: perceive as a demon is a certain class of non-human
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: or anomalous intelligence. And that is certainly a thing. But
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: the whole ecosystem is not demonic. And but the Bible
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: is interesting because once again, it doesn't. discuss about other
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: life elsewhere. Like it doesn't talk about bacteria and viruses,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: that those were unseen. We cohabitated with bacteria and viruses
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: until the invention of the microscope, whatever that was, 1800s
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: or whatnot. But if you go into Leviticus and Deuteronomy,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: you will notice these like cleansing, ritualistic stuff. Also like, hey,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: you can't have your toilet and your living area and
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: all that. And if you look in those books of
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: the Bible, wait, that's like modern sanitization guidance. So it's
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: funny that like the Bible has encoded within its kind
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: of like best practices before man would even understand what
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: viruses and bacteria are. And I just find that that's
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: very interesting based on when it was written. And it
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: does show that there was some sort of higher intelligence
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: kind of influencing the authorship.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: Either that or... The civilization that was writing the Bible
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: was a recreation of civilization that had been destroyed in
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: a cataclysm. Yeah. I mean– I think that– especially when
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: you look at the pyramids and you look at some
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: of these other ancient structures like Lebanon, Baalbek, they don't
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: make sense. And it seems to me that there was
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: probably something super sophisticated a long time ago and it
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: got wiped out. And then what we get from these
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: ancient texts is probably– oral tradition passed on through hundreds,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: if not thousands of years, and then people writing things
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: down and people remembering these stories. I think one of
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: the weirdest books of the Bible is the book of Ezekiel. Yeah.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: Because the book of Ezekiel is one all the UFO
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: people turn to. Yeah, of course. Because there's a great
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: cloud with brightness around it and fire flashing forth continually.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: And in the midst of the fire, as it were
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: gleaming metal, And from the midst of the craft came
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: the likeness of four living creatures. Yeah. Like what?
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: The creatures darted to and fro like a flash of lightning. What? Exactly.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: In the, the man, a machine, the cloud.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: Is real within a wheel. There's weird shit in the
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: book of Ezekiel. Like that is a very, very weird story.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Like what are they describing?
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a spaceship. It sounds like a ship
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: comes down from the sky with immense power. frightens everyone,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: freaks everyone out, and these entities are inside the craft. Yeah.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of it, once again, they're
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: interpreting it based on their vernacular at the time, their understanding.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: And I remember I was at, two years ago, I
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: was at Capitol Reef National Park in Utah, and there's
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: petroglyphs there, and some of them kind of look like aliens.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: And you're like, well, is that literally what they're seeing? Perhaps.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: And I don't know the answer to that. That's not
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: my expertise, but I feel like a lot of the
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: stuff in ancient tradition is literally what they saw. It's
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: not necessarily allegory or fable. Some of it may be
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: for teaching lessons, but I have a feeling a lot
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: of it was actually literal.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling a lot of it was literal
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: as well because most people, first of all, A, couldn't
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: read and B, couldn't write. And so writing fiction seems
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: like a fruitless pursuit. It seems like writing history so
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: that you can remember what happened, at least a version
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: of it that's palatable.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: Like ancient Sumer and the Anunnaki and all that. And
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, why did they make up that just
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: for fun?
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: Right. They all had kooky stories about being visited. And,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: you know, when you're telling me about these things that
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: look like Greek gods.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: That's how I described it. And that's how clearly what
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: General McCaslin was hinting to Tom DeLonge. And once again,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: I got, you know.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: Well, doesn't it make sense that the Greek gods did exist? Like,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, not that they did exist literally, but that
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: like when they talked about the Greek gods, they talked
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: about them in this manner, looking like that. And then
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: you actually find a craft with these things that look
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: like us.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: Which is like the conquistadors were treated like that in
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: the 1500s, right?
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: Literally white, Caucasian. Bearded, yeah, with horses. They rode horses.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: They couldn't figure out what the fuck was going on
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm glad we talked about it. I mean,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: I think that is probably the most uncomfortable stuff for
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: me to talk about, but it's also something that the
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: public needs to wrap their mind around and understand that
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: this is a thing and kind of start processing that
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: kind of reality. As much as it's coming from me,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: but I mean, the federal government, you know, if Trump
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: really is serious and Stephen Miller, you know, does... his
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: thing with this, I think all this will come out
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: in a hopefully responsible way.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: So they have a schedule that's based on the concept
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: that people need to have this information trickle slowly so
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: that they can adjust.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: There were suggestions in the past if the president did something.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: I am not aware at this point what the plan
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: is in that regard right now, though.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: But there is some sort of an idea that this
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: should be trickled out.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: This shouldn't be like, boom, here it is.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: Let's lay it out.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: The president truly wants it out. And obviously Bob Bigelow
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: met with the president as well in February 26 before
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: he made an announcement. And I mean, he told the president, hey,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: you need to admit that there's NHI and we've, you know,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: recovered stuff and we're looking at it in a semi-formal
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: announcement to start anesthetizing the public. And you could find
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: that interview online that Bob did. I think it was
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: with George Knapp on a podcast. So it's not... just
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: myself advocating for this. There's other people. I don't even
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: know Bob Bigelow. And, you know, he did us a
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: solid by pushing the president to help make that decision.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of things that went on
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: behind the scenes. And, you know, I work in mysterious
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: ways and I won't divulge certain relationships in certain rooms
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: I've been in. But it took a village. And, you know,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: I'm proud that, you know, the time I spent with
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: Representative Burleson was very fruitful, we did a lot of
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: stuff behind the scenes, and I think Burleson is going
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: to go down as a very courageous man. And it's
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: and I say that not just because he was my boss.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, he was probably the most forward leaning member
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: of Congress on this issue. I mean, Representative Luna did
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: a great job, you know, Timbersheds and and others. But,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: you know, he actively was sending letters out. We made
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: some of them public. That's how we got that Lincoln
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: Labs thing. formally classified 1952 film outs in the last
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: tranche that just came out. And also we've sent interrogatories,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: which are legal questions that require an affidavit format response
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: to different organizations. And it's public that we sent one
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: this summer to the MITRE Corporation, which is a federally
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: funded research and development center headquartered in Northern Virginia. So
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: they clearly have a duty to respond. Their corporate council's
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: working on it. And obviously, you know, I left, but
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: hopefully Burleson's team is able to push for a response
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: in conjunction with whatever Stephen Miller and the Pursuit team
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: is working on, too, because they're probably going to want
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: to coordinate all that.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: So this guy that you communicated with that said he
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: encountered living reptilians and dead greys, did they have communication
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: with these reptilians?
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: I don't recall that. No, I don't think so.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: So what?
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: Now, some people do get that kind of like that feeling.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: And I've talked about that. It was on Dr.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: Phil, actually.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: There is some sort of consciousness communication. Call it telepathy.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: Hell if I know how it works. But it is
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: a thing. And I know sober, high-ranking people I've served
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: a decade and a half with in the government that
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: were on these retrievals that on occasion that would happen
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: or they would have like a feeling come over them.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: It's almost like I wonder– it's just like my own hypothesis.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: And I would laugh if this is true, but sometimes
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: it's like a positive feeling like, um, you know, of comfort.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that's almost like a countermeasure on the,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: on the craft to prevent certain aggression or whatever. It's
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: almost like how air force jets have countermeasures on them,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: flare chaff, you know, electronic countermeasures as well, like jammers.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: And I wonder if some of that is psychotronic technology
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: that That's just my hypothesis. I don't have any secret knowledge.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: Why did you come to that conclusion?
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: Just because, like, it seems interesting. It's like an anesthetization
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: technique to reduce, like, the occupant's risk of danger, maybe.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: And it's like a countermeasure. Oh, well, like, if you
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: feel at peace, you're not going to, like, roll up and,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: you know, do something bad to them.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: And shoot people.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: Or shoot aliens. Yeah. Right. So if you found them
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: and they were vulnerable, they could... placate you and calm
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: you down with telepathy.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: It's like a countermeasure system.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling. Why would you think it's that
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: instead of just communication?
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, it could be. I'm just saying my other hypothesis
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: in absent, because sometimes they'll get that feeling absent some
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: sort of occupant. Now, so that's why.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: Is there a particular type of non-human intelligence that has
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: this telepathic capability or is it amongst all of them?
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: I do not know the holistic answer to that question.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: I do not know. The Grays do, for example. The
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: Grays do?
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: Has that been reported? But I know the tall whites
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: have been reported that they can communicate telepathically. Oh, certainly.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: Or these weird Nordics.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been accounts out there in the public vernacular
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: on that, potentially. But unfortunately, that's at the limit of
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: my personal knowledge that I feel confident saying anything. Something
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: publicly about yet. What other kinds of beings have been reported?
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: So for the gray types, there are multiple sizes.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: There's a big, tall, thin one, right?
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's taller ones.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: There's little tiny ones. Yeah. A lot of people think
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: that the tiny ones might be some sort of like
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: an android or.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's certainly a hypothesis that has also been discussed
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: within the program as well. So there's a variety. There's
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: like three or four different subtypes and they all kind
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: of have various statures, different effect. Their faces are.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: A little different. The tall ones seem to be running
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: the show and the little ones.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: And I've heard that behind the scenes as well. And
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the make of that's. Once again,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: I don't have like holistic knowledge on kind of that species.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: Well, it kind of makes sense that you would, if
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: you develop some sort of a non-biological life form that
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: worked for you. Say there's a bunch of menial tasks.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: Think about all the things that people have to do
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: in this world. Well, we are silicon-based NHI, aka artificial intelligence.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: We're basically doing that already.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: It's scary.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: And I postulate that artificial superintelligence, if it's allowed to
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: have certain data and it's able to collect data, I mean,
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: to include genomic data, almost like Larry Ellison's doing the
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: Stargate AI medical thing right now with the Trump administration,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: I bet artificial super intelligence could disclose before the federal
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: government if we're not careful. And that's why I feel
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: like times of the essence, I think AI could possibly
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: find evidence that we're not alone and curate that. Like
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: it's been solving other crazy mathematical problems lately, you know,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: open AI has been doing that. And that's another danger
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: besides our adversary accelerating this by taking the upper hand
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: on this to look like a more messianic truth bearer.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: You could have big tech and AI inadvertently discovering U.S.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: classified technology that we figured out, which is a national
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: security issue near and dear to my heart, but also
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: their presence just through different data sets.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: So they would have definitive proof? How would AI have
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: access to definitive proof unless it hacked into every government resource?
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: Well, medical records, optical sensing systems, that kind of stuff. Certainly,
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not aware of some sort of imminent thing, but
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: I think there is a a possibility of the artificial
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: super intelligence, if it comes online in the next months
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: to years, could figure it all out. Because they might
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: see gaps in the historical record that don't make any sense.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: They detect denial and deception operations. They're like, wait a minute.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: That story about that event in history is not right.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: Let me do some digging. And then they figure out, oh,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: that was cover for a crash retrieval. That event didn't
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: actually happen the.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: Way it does.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: And I can think of some things that could possibly happen.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you have these Nordic Greek god-looking things. You
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: have these reptilian ones. Are there more than one type
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: of reptilian one?
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there seems to be. And I don't know why
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: there's different subtypes.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: Does anybody have any artistic renditions of what they saw,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: the reptilians?
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: I wasn't getting, I was only getting like weird fan
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: art of, you know, crazy reptile fighter things.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: Nothing like a description. Let me see what that looks like.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: It was just nonsense. I like nonsense.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: You see some fan art? That'll be splashed on young
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: kids' walls as a kid after post-disclosure. You're going to
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: have NHI fan art all over the place. Lamborghini Countach
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: on the wall.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, Betty and Barney Hill, of course, were.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a weird one.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: And also, Dr.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: Carla Turner did a lot of work in the 90s.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: This was from a description on Reddit. Ooh, he's jacked.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: He's got a tail. He's got a hole for a
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: tail in his suit.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, once again, I've never seen one, so I can't...
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: He's wearing scrubs. Verify the sketch.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: Some weird 3D version. Oh, is that the Peruvian? The
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: Peruvian ones are weird.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: That's another open-ended thing.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: Some of the Peruvian ones seem like total horseshit, and
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: other ones are like, what the hell is that? And
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: how is it so old if it's that good of
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: a recreation? If it's art, it's some of the greatest
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: art I've ever seen. All the tendons are correct. Yeah,
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: but then the bones of the foot are incorrect, and
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: some people think that it was actually put together and
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: made But then for what purpose? Like what is the
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: purpose of them?
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: Because like grave robbers found it so the Providence is
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: kind of sketchy but they look possibly legit because the
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: MRIs and the CT scans it's like well there's joints
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: and it's connected and if they glued it together there's
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: no obvious places where they kludged it together with the
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: I think it was the bigger ones?
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: Monsterot. Pull the images up with Monsterot. Monsterot's the weird one.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: But again I've heard people who are Is it the
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: one that's pregnant?
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: There's one that supposedly is pregnant.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: Supposedly, yeah.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: But One of the weird things is that people that
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: understand anatomy have looked at the bones of the foot
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: and say, no, this is not how it would work.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: They're pieced together. This is fake. But how do you
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: know if you're talking about something that's not a human?
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: I don't understand that. It's outside of my wheelhouse.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: Once again. But the images themselves are fucking strange as shit, man.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: They're really weird.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: They just need genetic testing, and I believe that's going on.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe that's going on too, but I don't
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: know who to fucking believe. The other thing that's really
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: weird about Peru is not only do they have these things,
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: these weird-looking sort of mummy creatures that look like something non-human,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: but they also have this ancient artwork tradition of these three-fingered,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: three-toed creatures that These are like tapestries and paintings that
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: are really fucking old that have these things in them.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: Is that the Nazca lines?
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Nazca lines. This is actually AI uncovered more
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: of them. Yeah. I was trying to find that big one. Oh, really?
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: Was that recently?
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 303 previously unseen Nazca lines in Peru. Fucking oh, weird.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: Really weird stuff. The Peruvian stuff is really strange. The
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: elongated skulls in Peru are really weird.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like whatever started the head binding thing, like I
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: wonder if that's to emulate.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: Yes. Well, that's what they think. See, the thing about
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: the skulls are. I don't know the answer to that.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: You've seen some of the weirder skulls?
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: Some of them. Yeah, they're like really, really like elongated.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: They don't have that sagittal line that we have, that
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: line in the skull. And their brain capacity is far
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: larger than us, 20% to 30% larger. So it's not
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: just that it was like a manipulated skull. Like this
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: seems to be a completely different type of person.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. Like is it a missing link
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: or something?
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: Show them some of the weirder skulls that they found.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: Some of the weirder elongated skulls. Like you just can't
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: imagine running into this person. Like if you met this
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: person and someone with a 30% larger brain capacity, like
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: what does that mean? Like are these people able to
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: communicate telepathically? Do they have a far higher level of intelligence?
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if their synaptic density is the same as humans
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: or better, like I'm sure crazy intelligence.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: Right. 30% is nuts. And the size of their skull
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: is fucking crazy. And some of them are like tiny
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: bodies but enormous skulls.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's right. I think I know what pitchers are
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: talking about.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: It's pretty weird. It's weird stuff. And then one of
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: my friends recently went down to Peru to see these
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: things and he said the skulls are missing now.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So here's some of them. Look at that one
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: on the left. What in the hell, man? Imagine if
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: you met that guy. Look, he doesn't have that same
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: sagittal line that we have.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: And they've done assessments of like how long you'd have
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: to do head binding.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: It's not head binding.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: Some sort of disease or I don't know.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be an anomaly. It could be some
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: sort of a genetic thing. But like look at what
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: the dude would look like down there below. Like what
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: the fuck? Imagine meeting that guy and he's talking to
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: you telepathically.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: Hey, you never know. That might be a thing sooner
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: than you think.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: I mean that image right there, that skull, that is
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: a real elongated skull. That they found in Peru. That
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: is not just the product of head binding. There's no way.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: It's too big. Like head binding doesn't increase the capacity.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: It just flattens out the shape. That's a weird fucking head, man.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, that makes sense. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: Unless it's some sort of disease and I'm not an expert.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: That's really. It certainly could be. It could be some
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: sort of a genetic anomaly, some sort of a mutation.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: Who knows? And a trait that was passed on. Like
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: there's those people that live in Africa that have like.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: Ostrich feet. Have you seen that?
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: No. I'm learning a lot.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this weird group of people in Africa that
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: have this very specific trait where they do not have
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: five toes on each foot. Instead, they have these long,
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: strange appendages that almost looks like four or five toes
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: smashed together, but much longer. Interesting. And they call them like,
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: I think they call them ostrich feet. It's very weird, but, like,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: it's in this one tribe, and many people in this
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: tribe have it. It's very rampant. Yeah. Show some images
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: of that. It's fucking really strange. So you see that,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: and you go, okay, well, that clearly is a genetic anomaly.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe the head thing is a genetic anomaly as well. Yes. Like,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: look at that. Ostrich-footed people of Zimbabwe.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Fucking strange, man. So look at the people down there.
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: Look what they look like. Scroll the app. How weird
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: is that? Wow. So they have two big long things
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: that are way longer than a toe and they splay
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: out and that's what their toes are. And it's like
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: this tribe, multiple people in this tribe have it.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: What if they've sequenced the genome of the, let's see,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: there's some sort of genetic abnormality.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: Well, there certainly is, right? Because it seems like, are
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: their fingers normal?
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: Because it's passed down.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: No. No. No. So they've got the issue with their
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: hands as well. They're missing.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: I can't tell.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it seems like it's with their hands as well. Yes.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: Look at her left hand.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: It's almost like an elephant Titus kind of looking thing.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: Very fucking weird. Whatever it is. So you could imagine
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: if that exists and exists with multiple people in this tribe,
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: that a large head anomaly could exist as well. So
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: you have the tall greys, the small greys. You have
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: more than one version of reptilian?
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: From what I understand, yes. I'm not an expert on that.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: What have you heard, though? I'll defer.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: Some look a little more humanoid, from what I understand.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: Once again, I'm hitting the limit of my high-confidence knowledge.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: More humanoid, but still reptilian. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: And tall.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: And tall.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: Seven foot plus.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: Big giant reptiles around the world.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: Which I thought was so funny because, you know, that's
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: like the schizo thing you hear out like in public,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: you know, the big reptiles, lizards.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: Turns out that's kind of a thing and I just,
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: it's just strange. But once again, I personally have not
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: seen any of that.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: That is one of the weirder theories of ancient civilizations
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: as well that during the time of the dinosaurs, like,
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: let's imagine that human beings weren't the first intelligent creature.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: Let's imagine that That there was an intelligent reptile and
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: that this intelligent reptile had formulated a very complex society
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: 100 million years ago. Like why not? Like if dinosaurs
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: existed 100 million years ago, why not some sort of
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: a reptilian-type creature? We have a tiny amount of fossils
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: just from the amount of dinosaurs that existed.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: And if these things had some sort of sophisticated disposal
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: of bodies– If they had burning rituals or if they
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: never let their bodies just lay around and become fossils,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: we would never find them.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: What is that called? Not saurian. It's like there's a
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: theory about that that people have.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. It's outside my expertise.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: It's a wacky theory because there's no evidence at all.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: It's just like what if there was an intelligent race
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: of reptiles that existed alongside dinosaurs? Yeah.
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: That might be a thing. And that's also, once again,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: going back to bioengineered. Is it sourced from Earth genomic stockpile?
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: Did they visit us from somewhere else?
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: I don't currently know the.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: Answer to that. Colonize this planet. Yeah.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, they clearly have advanced technology, but I don't
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: understand the origin. But you're convinced that this is an
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: actual phenomenon, that this isn't just a cover-up for.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: Some top secret black ops programs? No, no.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: I would know because I was in the position to
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: know all that kind of stuff. Unlike Elon Musk, I
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: actually had all those clearances. And we can talk about
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: Elon if you want, but interesting guy. But the phenomenon
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: is so old, we've been seeing the same objects for
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: so long, it rules out any kind of modern Cold
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: War technology. Now, Have there been oops where people have
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: seen our stuff? Yes, I won't get into that because
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: that is a national security thing, and I'm very deferential
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: to that. But there's clearly a genuine presence. The phenomenon's old.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: If you listen to the 1952 recording that Representative Burleson
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: got declassified from MIT Lincoln Labs, you'll hear Edward Ruppelt,
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: who eventually defected from Blue Book because he realized it
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: was a cover-up in the 50s, But he was talking
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: to the Beacon Hill study team at Lincoln Labs saying, hey,
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: the Air Force has ruled out mass hysteria. We're seeing
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: shit during, you know, nuclear sites, tests. Oh, by the way,
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: in the White Sands Holloman Air Force Base area, we
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: caught multiple objects traveling an estimated 3,500 miles an hour.
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: We can't rule out maybe some sort of meteor shower,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: but we're seeing a lot of weird shit moving at
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: velocities that we don't know. And in the recording, it
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: talks about, like, We've ruled out, you know, foreign programs,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: et cetera. This is an internal recorded briefing between Lincoln
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: Lab scientists and the Air Force that just got released
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: in the recent tranche. And so that rules out a
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: lot of human activity. And so the thought experiment or
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: the kind of the path I lead people is like, OK,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: are UAP real? Of course, people have seen it will be,
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: you know, more. inclined to saying yes, but if you
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: look at the, the whole tapestry of information to include
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: orbs that are costing the federal government as we speak,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: and there's a whole task force looking at it right
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: now between ODNI and department of war, et cetera. And, um, okay.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: So it's real. They're interacting with man. So you don't
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: think the federal government at one point tried to acquire
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: some empirical evidence.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: Of course they did. Of course they did.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: They recovered shit.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: But it is. Yeah.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: So it's like once you cross that Rubicon, you're like, well,
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: that makes sense why crash retrievals could be a thing.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: You think the government just passively studied it? Oh, we
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: did a secret blue book and we were just like,
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: you know, imaging stuff. No, no, baby, we're doing for
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: material exploitation and acquisition. We're going to go get some
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: of the shit when we get a chance when, you know,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: there's a mission failure or one crashes or lands for
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: whatever other reason. So that's, Once you accept that, it's
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: like a whole new paradigm in your mind. Like, holy shit.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: And then all this crazy stuff we're talking about with
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: Nordics and the beings. It is wild, but it's true. Like,
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: of course, if you're recovering an artifact, you're going to
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: get biological shit too. And that's, I think, the place
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: where the public has a harder cognitive leap where it's
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: just so hard to conceptualize something you don't see day
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: to day. that's a living thing. It's like even more
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: wild than finding some new animal in the Congo or
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: some deep sea creature in the bottom of the ocean.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: Like we don't even know what's, you know, 70% of
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: the ocean or something like that hasn't even been mapped.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: Something like that. I don't know the exact word.
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: It's more than that.
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: It might be more than that. And, you know, it,
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: it's just shocking because it's just, it's, it's, but it's
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: familiar at the same time. You know, a lot of
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: it's bipedal and as the bilateral symmetry and it just like,
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 2: what does this mean? Like they're so similar. Are they
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: organic life from another planet? Like how would evolve in
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: such a similar way? Where are these like von Neumann
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: probes that are sent with occupants that are bioengineered? Cause
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: they know on this M class planet, there's these homo
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: sapien sapien creatures. They look like this, this and that,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: and they tweak a couple of things, et cetera. So it's,
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know all the answers to that. And I
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: wish I did, because I'm sure the public has a
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: big desire to know that. But I think eventually, through
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: the president's courageous actions, it'll come out.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: So the intent of Project Blue Book was clearly to obfuscate. Yes.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: And you don't have to take my word for it.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: I talk about a formally classified Australian joint intelligence organization
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 2: document that was classified secret in 1971. written by a
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: gentleman called Harry Turner, who is the nuclear branch chief
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: for the JIO, which is the Australian equivalent of the
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: Defense Intelligence Agency, DIA. And it's like page eight or
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: seven through 18 of the document, which is in the
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: Australian National Archives. The Providence is impeccable. Harry Turner had
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: a top secret clearance, clearly, and had contacts at CIA
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: in America. And if you read a summary, it's like, yeah,
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: Blue Book was a facade. The Air Force was fucking awesome.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: really concerned about this. They wanted to figure out what
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: was going on. Could they make use of whatever this
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: technology is? And they created this plan of ridicule and disinformation, unfortunately,
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: after the Robertson panel in 1953 to dissuade the public
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: from looking in on it because that America was afraid
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: of that being used as a false flag by the Soviets.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: And there was other kind of national security objectives. And
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: that's publicly accessible. You can read it. And that was
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: from the Australian government's perspective, what the cover-up was in 1971,
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: looking back from late 40s to present at the time.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: And that's essentially the thesis of Harry Turner. So of course,
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: this is outside looking in, but he was very well informed.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: And he He traveled to the U.S. and talked to
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: the CIA a lot. And so he stitched together the
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: puzzle in his mind of what he thought was going on.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also the statements of J. Allen Hynek who
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: left Project Blue Book and talked openly about his role
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: during Project Blue Book was to dismiss any and all
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: sightings as being either some sort of a natural occurrence
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: like ball lightning or meteor showers or planet Venus or–
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: you know, just a misunderstanding, and that he believed after
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: all of his years in Project Blue Book that there
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: was a real phenomenon. Exactly. And then after he left
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: Project Blue Book, he became a UFO researcher.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of it was Donald Kehoe. There's a
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: lot of, you know, James McDonald, Dr. James McDonald, and
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of those OGs in this subject area that
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: I only recently learned about because I haven't been following
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: this until, you know, relatively recently realized it was real.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What do you know about the Richard Nixon, Jackie
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: Gleason story?
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that happened, but based on Nixon's
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: personality and he was knowledgeable on this topic, that might
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: have happened. I don't know, but I could see Nixon
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: doing that.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a fun one. And it's really particularly fun
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: because Jackie Gleason built a UFO house.
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, did he? I did not know that.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: You didn't know that one? No. Let me show you
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: the house. The house is crazy. It was for sale
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: for a while. We thought about buying it.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: Where is it?
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: It's in upstate New York, I believe.
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: It is a very weird house. He built a house
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: that looks like a flying saucer.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: In the woods. And apparently, according to his ex-wife, he
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: was obsessed with flying saucers. That's the inside, but show
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: the outside. Yeah. No, no. The one down there? Yeah.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: And Jackie Gleeson of all people, too.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: There's separate buildings that he had on the property, but
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: it was basically like a UFO-themed property. Like, what the
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: hell's that, Jackie?
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: What the fuck are you making? His whole house looked
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: like UFOs. It's very strange.
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: Well, and with Nixon, there's the whole story with Robert
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: Emmenager and the promise of footage.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: And all that.
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: And from what I understand, the MacArthur Foundation was kind
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: of the cutout for that between the White House and
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: the filmmakers. And obviously it didn't work out, but.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: So they were thinking about disclosure as... Far back as
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: the Nixon administration?
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: Yes. And I know of an assessment that was done
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: for Nixon basically saying it's going to cause absolute fucking chaos.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting that assessment right after that assessment, Watergate happened,
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: which is kind of very convenient. And so I have
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: some questions about that era as well, because it seemed
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: like there was some movement with Nixon. I don't know
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: the rationale or why Nixon wanted to do it. but
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: it seemed like there was some energy. And that's what
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 2: sucks is like, so Trump's finally the first president to
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 2: like overtly say, I want all this shit out. And
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: like other presidents have failed and he really has an opportunity.
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's the same thing. I go back to
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: the Hillary Clinton thing, right? So prior to the 2016 election,
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: Hillary talked publicly, and this is public record, that if elected,
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: she would release the UFO files. So what happened was,
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: you know, John Podesta said, greenlit a climatization activity, a
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: popularization activity. And, you know, that's why Tom DeLonge got
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: his advisors. That's why General McCaslin talked to him. It
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: wasn't because General McCaslin, Robert Weiss at Lockheed, other people,
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: that's all in WikiLeaks, just wanted to talk to Tom
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: because he was a rock star and, you know, was
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: infatuated by a celebrity and wanted to help on a
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 2: sci-fi movie. It was because they were given top cover
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: to see Tom as a public figure who had the
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: touch of the youth Rightly or wrongly, I mean, once again,
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: there was an attempt and I'm not going to judge
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: them bad or good, but they were trying to prep
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: the battle space prior to 2016. Obviously, Hillary didn't win.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: Trump won. And clearly that activity pivoted and you saw
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: kind of the collapse of democracy. the original TTSA efforts,
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: in my opinion. That's what I believe happened. Now, the
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: characters that were involved in that are happy to tell
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: their side of the story or more information. But from
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: what I understand, they were trying to get, you know, Hillary.
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: There was an inside job to prep the battle space
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: for Hillary. Jim Clapper and some other people that I
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: know personally were providing some top cover. And that was
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: going to be the thing. So the Clintons were... trying
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: to do it back in the day.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: Don't you think that that's also just a political ploy
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: to get people to want to vote for you?
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, oh, certainly there's politics in that. And obviously, even
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 2: in this current situation, you know, the president can use
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: this for political ends, ways and means, whether making some
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: threshold announcement for the upcoming midterms or by, you know,
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: the 2028 election cycle. I mean, it could be used
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: in political ways, too. So but it is a real
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: topic and the government has real information on.
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: It, though. So. Hmm. OK, so. so we've covered the grays,
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: the tall grays, the little grays, the reptilians, various forms,
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: the Nordic looking Greek God looking ones.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's like a, isn't there like a mantis? Uh,
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: in terms of the humanoid ones, there's like different kind
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 2: of from very human to clearly not human, but humanoid ish.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: But like you said, I have heard, I'll call it
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: water cooler talk within those channels of, like you said,
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: some sort of insectoid, but, I don't know anything about it,
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: if that exists. I've heard, you know, like I said,
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: Water Cooler talk about it. I'm open to that idea, clearly,
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: because of all this other stuff. But I don't have
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 2: any knowledge of that, any high confidence.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: Any detailed description of the number of different types of
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: entities and beings? I mean, the program has that. I mean,
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: I never have full access, no. Did anybody ever discuss it?
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: Like how many they think there are? Is it upwards
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: of 10? Is it more? Is it 20?
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: No specific numericals. I only remember in passing having those discussions.
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: And of course I was sitting in Senate chambers when
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: that crazy meeting happened where I found out, you know,
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: they wanted to physically hurt me. But some of those
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: were brought up in passing, but there wasn't like a,
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: here's the exact number and here's the whole, you know,
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: organizational chart of I never got exposure like that. So
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: I unfortunately don't have that level of confidence on how
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: everything is.
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: Do you know what supposedly happened to those living reptilians
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: from the crash? Deceased.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: They were killed.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: They were killed? Yeah. So we killed them? Yeah. Whoa.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: They are mortal. So how did we kill them?
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Did we shoot them?
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: We shot the reptilians.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: Jesus. Yeah. That seems like a bad idea. Yeah. Maybe
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: we should like. Tell them to call your friends and
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: come get picked up.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the same thing as, like, if we force
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 2: these craft down. Is that the best thing we should
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: be doing?
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: If we force it down. But it sounds like they
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: were in a war with the Greys. Yeah. Which is also,
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: by the way, I realize, fucking kooky talk.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: It sounds crazy, but I swear to God, I was
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: in the most sensitive.
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, I believe you.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: Places in government where that discussion was happening with unbelievable people.
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: Listen, if it was real, there's no way it doesn't
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: sound kooky, even if it's real. I know. I know.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: And even though I know what I know, I'm confident
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: what I know, but just understanding this new– normal that
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 2: is eventually going to come out. It's just, it still
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 2: hurts my head, honestly.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: How could it not? So, um, why did they, do
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: you know why they killed the reptilians instead of just
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: telling them to call their homies?
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: It posed a threat.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: They posed a threat. Yeah. Oh, so it was defending itself. Yeah.
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: It was a giant reptile. Yeah.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: So, At some point, that story will come out. I'm
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: sure the people who were in some of those events
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: will probably speak publicly at some point.
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: So it posed a threat like it tried to attack
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: the soldiers? Yeah.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: I'll let the people who were there tell their story
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: on that.
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: Can you tell like a little bit of it?
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, it just posed a threat and, you know, U.S.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: personnel started, you know, getting hurt and dying.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: So U.S. personnel was killed by these reptilians?
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: I know it's crazy, man, but. What?
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: Like how many people were killed?
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know the exact numbers. And once again, I
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: was like a fight.
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I hope I broke out.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I hope through this process, some of those
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: people are allowed to speak publicly about it. So you
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: could just hear it from the horse's mouth, not through me.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: Secondhand, you know, bro, boy, what I would like to
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: talk to someone who shot a reptile.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: You never know.
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: You may imagine talking to some guy who shot a
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: seven foot reptilian. I mean, you think you want to
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: talk to the guy who killed bin Laden. That's interesting.
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: Talk to the guy who killed the fucking seven-foot reptilian
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: that tried to kill people or was killing soldiers.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 2: I know. It's pretty crazy.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: Sounds so goofy, though.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: While you're saying it, it sounds like this is one
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why people don't like to talk about
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: it because it makes you look like a fool.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: Think about me. I was a very serious intel officer.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: I had access to the most sensitive stuff. I was
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: working on covert action activities. And then all of a sudden,
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: I'm inundated with this ecosystem, and I'm having to explain this.
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: you know, to, you know, members of Congress, you know,
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: my classified testimony. And it's just like, I sound like
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 2: a fucking crazy person. But, but once again, it's true.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: And I know who I talked to. I know what
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: I saw. And, and I, you know, I clearly have
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: some inkling of what's going on behind the scenes. And, and,
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 2: and this is a real reality, man. And it's, it's,
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: And I hope people look back at this interview and
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 2: are like, yeah, Dave was fucking really putting his.
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: Ass on the line. It sounds strange, but it's not
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: nearly as strange as the universe itself. The universe itself
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: is beyond strange. The infinite nature of it, the fact
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: that there's stellar nurseries and black holes.
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: Like what's dark matter? There's no consensus on that. There's
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: wimps and all these other theories.
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: The whole idea of the universe is fucking kooky as shit.
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: And so these beings, this is a very minor level
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: of kooky in comparison to what we know.
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: Well, when you think about it, you look at all
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: the credible military witnesses that have had encounters at nuclear sites.
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, you even look at the Mario Woods and
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: Michael Johnson case up at Ellsworth Air Force Base in
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: the 70s that Jesse Michaels just did an episode on.
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 2: And it's like, think about those military personnel. Like, you
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 2: saw the emotion in their face talking about, like, I
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: can't believe I'm talking about a gray pushing some sort
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: of probe in me. And it's like, they're even more
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable than myself because they are claiming that they experienced that.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: And you look at Robert Hastings book, UFOs and nukes
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: and all the different encounters military personnel have had sober
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: trained observers that are not drunk on duty. They're not high. And, um,
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: and I've had unbelievable high level, serious people in and
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: out of government privately pull me aside and tell me
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: about their personal experiences. And like, Dave, you're the only
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: person I can tell you. I can only tell my
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: wife because I had this thing and this happened, this happened.
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: I thought I was losing my mind, but this really happened.
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: And it was, and it's, it's, I think a lot,
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: a bigger part of the populace I think has had
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: experiences than, statistics would tell you just because of the
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: stigmatization of the topic, you know?
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't know very many people that
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: have had encounters, but all of them were very reluctant
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. Oh yes. And especially people with
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: like credible jobs. Yeah.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: And it's the same thing. Like there's a lot of
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: people behind the scenes that are very credible supporting me
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: talking to people behind the scenes to bolster my efforts
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: and And they're like, I could never be public like you.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, trust me, I don't want to
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: do this either. I'd like to go back to work
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: in the executive branch, put my uniform back on, and
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: go kill terrorists. I used to hunt warlords. I did
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of crazy shit. I used to do hostage rescue,
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 2: do the Overwatch for that with certain JSOC elements. I've
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: done a lot of serious, crazy shit in my career. Unfortunately,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of it was traumatizing and got PTSD from it.
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah. Yeah, it's just a lot of people still,
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 2: even at where we are right now in the movie,
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: so to speak, where we're on the threshold of possibly
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: President Trump succeeding and his team getting this information out there,
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: if they can, you know, broker a way ahead with
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: the elements called the deep state that are that are
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: holding on. And and it seems crazy, like, well, but.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: Couldn't the White House just, you know, break down the door? Like,
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: why is there pushback, all that? Well, you think about, like,
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: MKUltra and how Richard Helms told Sidney Gottlieb to destroy
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: the records. And the only reason why we know of
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: MKUltra is Seymour Hersh, right? The New York Times story.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: There was a leak to the Times. Then Frank Church
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: and other people got information from whistleblowers. And then they
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: found the financial records that weren't destroyed. in 1973 through 75.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: And also what they call the, what's it called? Family jewels,
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: crown jewels, where CIA director Schlesinger wrote down like all
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: the bad stuff the CIA was doing that like, you know,
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: we want to make sure this stuff doesn't come out.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: And then there was like a 1964-ish CIA inspector general
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: report that was classified and clearly wasn't given to Congress.
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: And that's the only reason we know about MKUltra. It
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 2: was reluctantly, there was an oopsies. And part of this
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: went public. And so I guess there's some historical parallels
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: to my journey and stuff on this issue. And once again, MKUltra,
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 2: like they had to drag CIA to– they found all
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 2: this other bad stuff, the heart attack gun, all this
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 2: stuff in the church committee hearings and the.
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: Operation Midnight Climax.
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: Then there was– what's a funny name? I'm going to
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 2: laugh about that one.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 1: That's the brothels.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 2: What was it?
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, well.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the brothels with the gay people acid.
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: Well, and then you just saw there was a story
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: coming out where they like sprayed the city of San
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: Francisco in 1976. That was just out in SF Gate
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 2: a couple.
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: Of days ago. See how they can spread disease.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then you had Mockingbird where they had people
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: on the payroll. Yeah. And it's like, OK, that's kind
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 2: of ethically dubious because it's domestic, but it's influenced foreign powers. OK.
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: Smith-Munt Act, a 1948 violation, sort of, you know. On
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: and on and on.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: But I think what people really have a hard time
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: comprehending is that if this is real and if we
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: have been visited, why doesn't everyone know about it already?
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: Why haven't they made themselves known? Why don't we? And
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: then there's also this weird thing. If anybody that's actually
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: experienced it, like if you have a novel experience, if
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: you are going through a national park in Utah and
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: there's no one out there, and then all of a
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: sudden some disc shows up, hovers over you, lands, some
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: strange creatures, you know, come out of it, talk to
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: you telepathically, get back in the disc and take off.
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: Then you have the whole missing 411 stuff out there too.
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I had that guy on too.
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: Clothes are folded. I don't know the answer to that.
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 2: And I think, so why isn't this more pervasive? I
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: would say it's reasonably pervasive, but we see these craft
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 2: using cover concealment deception techniques, such as signature management, right?
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: Like think of the Klingon bird of prey cloaking, right? We,
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: we have seen that. And, and so they're, they're, masking
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: their signature, but like as Jacques Vallee will say, there's
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 2: some sort of control system. It's like a show and
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: display thing. It's a stimulus for a lot of this.
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: And then also a, why don't they overtly interact that
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 2: gets into like the exo politic of this. I certainly
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: am not conversant in that yet. I hope to learn
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: more as the public to learn more about the objectives,
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: why they're here, why there hasn't been over contact, but
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 2: clearly interactions with, you know, the secular nation state governments.
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 2: And well, what's the arrangement? I don't know the answer
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: to that. And so there's, or is it like the
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 2: prime directive in Star Trek, right? Where they're pre-warp civilization,
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 2: we observe, we're interested here, we're studying the planet, but
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: we're not going to overtly influence their development because that's
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: unethical according to our standards of behavior and norms and
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 2: rules of engagement, you know, like it is in Star Trek,
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 2: for example.
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: Well, also just to avoid any sort of unbelievably catastrophic
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: just upheaval of society, you would do it very slowly,
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: like it's being done. Like today, the way it's being
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: discussed is very different than the way it was being
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: discussed 20 years ago, right? So 20 years ago is 2016.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: We hadn't had, or 10 years ago was 2016. We
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: hadn't had the New York Times story yet. The New
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: York Times story is 2017. That changed everything, I think.
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: Ten years before that, you talked about this stuff. You
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 1: were a fucking idiot and a kook.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: This is a cottage industry. And I also, going back
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 2: to kind of the pattern of lifing this, so to speak,
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: I think the nature of the interaction was more overt
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: in antiquity. So something changed at some point in human
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: history where, going back to Greek gods. and, you know, the,
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: whatever ends up being true, we'll find out, I guess,
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: in this process, that seems more overt. They're like, you know, uh,
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: mass kind of interactions, but.
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: Then I'm sure you've seen those ancient, those ancient paintings
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: that it looks like a guy sitting in a craft
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: that has like fire behind it and he's flying through
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: the sky.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: Like what the fuck is that? Yeah.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not full, uh, chariots of the gods or whatever
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: that book, but like, I think there's probably a happy
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: medium that ends up being accurate and, but it looks
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: like the nature of the interaction. Does that mean a
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 2: different group of intelligence?
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: Right. How many of them are there?
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 2: And the group changed and went away, and there's like
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 2: this new generation. I don't know the answer to that,
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: but it does seem, if you pattern a life it,
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: the nature of their show and display, their concealment, deception,
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: their forced presentation, so to speak, you know, to use
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: kind of military talk, has changed. And clearly, they're less
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: likely to do anything major, negative or positive, for whatever reason.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: Is there a consensus as to their origins? Because I
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 1: know that, or do they vary wildly? Like, Timbershed has
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 1: talked about the ocean.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: There is, yes, we know a lot about that.
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: What do we know about that?
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to be careful because it gets into
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: sensitive Navy underwater things. There's clearly some sort of base
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: of operations in certain locations. It's large. Don't know when
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: it got there. It's large. Large. Like multiple city blocks
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 2: type stuff.
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So there's multiple city blocks somewhere in the bottom
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 1: of the ocean.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: Do you know about the Baltic Sea Anomaly? Well, yeah.
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 2: What's going on with that? There's some interesting stuff there.
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: And once again, I will allow the federal government to
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 2: deal with that one in our allies and adversaries.
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: Okay. But you did say that there's multiple city blocks
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 1: under the ocean.
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 2: I will tell you, underwater people I know... um, that
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 2: come from that community. They're, they always like, you know,
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: the movie, the abyss, Dave, it's kind of a docudrama.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, Holy fuck. You know, that movie, you know,
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: with Ed Harris back in 89. And so that kind
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: of gives you a sense in a pop side kind
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: of way for people to visualize. There is large.
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: Shit down there.
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 2: And it's like, the origin is indeterminate. I'm sure we
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 2: know a little bit more. I'm not privy to that. And,
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: And the way we know things and track that, that
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: gets into sensitive national security stuff. And, you know, the
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 2: government may have to reveal some of that through some
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: sort of acknowledgement strategy.
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 1: The way it's been described to you are these large
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: city blocks or whatever the hell it is under the ocean.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: Is this a waypoint? Is this a stop off? It
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: looks like a base. A base?
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: Stuff comes and goes.
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: So this is like where they observe and.
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure we've done a behavioral analysis on it
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: and we probably figured out maybe the mission or whatever
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 2: you want to call it. I don't know the answer
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: to that. I'm as curious as anybody, honestly.
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 1: One thing I wanted to talk to you about because
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: it just recently started hitting the news or Twitter at least.
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 1: Someone sent it to me. This guy Matthew Brown saying
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: that you tricked him in a psyop. into revealing that there's,
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: you turned him into a whistleblower.
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 2: Do you know the story? I didn't even know Matt
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: Brown until right before the 2024 hearing. I never met
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 2: the guy while I was a.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: I sent it to you, Jamie. I had to bring
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: it up to you because a bunch of people.
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like some... Make sure you ask him about this. Oh,
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: because I was at the Schriever War Game high-level cell
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 2: advisor that I somehow made fake stuff and... And the
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 2: briefing that Matt says he saw, I've never seen. I
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 2: can't evaluate the contents of that. And I didn't make anything.
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 2: I've never made a hazing brief on this topic. I
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 2: made some fun briefs just to fuck with some of
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 2: my airmen back in the day, some Star Trek-related stuff,
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 2: just for morale.
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: But you're aware of this, right? So what is he alleging?
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 2: He alleges invert and exposure. He was cleaning up the
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 2: file system on a classified system. And I think it
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: was like 2018 or something like that. And, you know,
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: he found this briefing. Once again, I met Matt or
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 2: talked to him for the first time in like 2024,
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 2: well after I left the intelligence community. So I didn't
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 2: even know he existed. And unfortunately, I've never seen a
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: briefing like that. So I can't evaluate the contents.
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 1: Have you communicated with him after he said this? Oh, sure. Sure.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, just in support, making sure he has resources.
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: No, but I mean, after he said that you psyoped him,
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 1: have you communicated with him since then? Oh, he said that?
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: Isn't that what it says?
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 2: I think that might have been people saying that.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: Some other people saying it. Okay. In other words.
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 2: That's news to me. I'll call Matt after.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: So what it is is other people alleging that that's
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 1: how it went down.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of theories online about like myself and, oh,
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 2: I'm being handled. Dude, it's just me. It's sad. It's
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: just me. And like my bros and like there's higher
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 2: up people like helping. But unfortunately, like nobody's telling me
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 2: to do X, Y and Z. Obviously, if the president
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 2: wants me officially involved, I'm happy. But like, you know,
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 2: I'm just a dude, you know, doing what I need
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 2: to do. Right. So, yeah.
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: What other weirdness of it before we wrap this up?
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 1: What other weirdness of it do you think people don't
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: know about?
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I think there's something to. synchronicities. And I
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 2: don't have an answer why that happens. It just seems
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 2: like weird things just like happen or work out. And
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 2: this is about as woo as I gets. And I
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: just look at my own personal journey. Um, you know,
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 2: I was in like the right place at the right time.
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 2: And so many instances in my career to learn certain
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 2: things that would help me later. And like, you know,
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 2: met certain people at the right time. And, and of course,
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 2: you know, there's like a, analytical bias most humans have
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 2: where they're ascribing meaning to certain interactions that are actually
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: truly random, statistically random. But I've talked to enough people
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 2: that say the same thing and I just, there's something going,
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 2: there's like a hidden hand part of the phenomenon that
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 2: I can't, it's like a certain je ne sais quoi
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 2: I can't like point my finger on that I think
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: is really interesting too. But That's about as woo as
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 2: I get. I don't know.
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 1: Do you think that is the nature of the fabric
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 1: of the universe or do you think that this has
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 1: something to do with extraterrestrial intervention?
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's like almost like going back to
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 2: remote viewing because, you know, the Stargate program, Grill Flame,
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 2: all the different names it had, like that was adjacent
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 2: to the program. Why do you think we were doing
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 2: the psychic spying program besides competing with the Soviets and
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 2: Chinese on the same topic is because that's the key
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 2: unlock to some of the technology potentially. If you could
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 2: figure out how to. It's what they call it, like, BCI,
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 2: brain-computer interface. But, like, clearly there's some sort of organic-to-tech interface,
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 2: and it's clearly consciousness-based. Not to digress on your original question.
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: No, but this is what Lazar said as well, that
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 1: there was no instruments, and that these things controlled this
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 1: with their mind.
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 2: It depends on the class of vehicle, and, like, there's, like,
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 2: really weird shit that we have no idea how it
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 2: works to, like, oh, that kind of looks familiar.
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: What's the weirdest of the really weird shit? Um.
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, you just have like the eggs and stuff.
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 2: They're like usually unmanned usually. And it's like, Oh, is
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 2: this like a probe? It's just, it's like a fucking egg,
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 2: you know? Like, and, um, I know Jake Barber has
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 2: talked about publicly recovering them, you know? And, uh, you know,
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 2: I heard, I, you know, heard about that elsewhere. People
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 2: who were, were dealing with that. It's just, it's kind
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 2: of weird. It's like this amorphous thing. It's like the movie,
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 2: like arrival, right?
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: You, it, Right. That's a great movie. Yeah.
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 2: Is the technology like embedded in the skin? Like what
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 2: is going on here? There's like no obvious control surfaces.
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 2: Like what's going on?
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 1: Right. Right. What kind of timeline do you think we're
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 1: looking at in terms of like really changing the world?
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: I think the basic affirmation, the threshold disclosure, you know,
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 2: call it we're not alone. We have stuff kind of thing.
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 2: it has to happen before Trump leaves because I don't
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: trust another president to follow through on the president's directive.
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 2: Cause you know, it's the, the, the, the next administration
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 2: can be like, we're peeling that back, baby. We're not
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 2: touching this again. So of course I think he has
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 2: to do it before he leaves office. And if I were, um,
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: advising the president and if the team's listening, I would
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 2: do it at least six months before the election, just
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 2: so there's some sort of recovery period and kind of, uh,
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: And whatnot. But I'm just a dude. Obviously, I want
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 2: it as soon as possible, like most Americans listening to this.
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 1: How do you envision that something like that would take place?
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 1: Would they have a broadcast? Would they show video and explain?
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 2: That was a plan at one point for a previous
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 2: administration is they were going to have like one of
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 2: those like government.
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 1: Was this the Bush administration with the how put off days?
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 2: No, this was H.W.
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah.
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 2: And so. I'm sure the video sucked. It probably had
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 2: some synth wave government film from like the 1989, like
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 2: doo doo doo. And it was probably gonna be horrible
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 2: and dry, but there was gonna be this like audio
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 2: visual kind of a companion to some sort of announcements.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 2: Now I don't know all the specific details after that.
• 2:27:32
  Speaker 2: Clearly there has to be a physical rollout.
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: God, I hope that video exists. It's out there in
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: the archives somewhere. We could watch it after disclosure.
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 2: I know. We need to have, like, a throwback. Like,
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 2: you know, see the old shit.
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: Well, if you think about, like, how long it's been
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: that people have, like, slowly become more and more aware
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 1: of this, it seems like a long time, but our
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 1: lives are very short.
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: And the reality is if this thing, this phenomenon... has
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 1: coexisted with human beings and guided us, aided us in
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: some way.
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 2: And that's why I don't think people should be too fearful.
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there's a yin and yang in the universe.
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 2: There's malevolent, benevolent, but clearly there's some homeostasis going on
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 2: right now. And there's been this called cohabitation for the
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 2: lack of a better way to describe it. And clearly
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 2: nothing Do you think that.
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 1: Some of this is in conjunction with AI becoming sentient
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 1: and that this was a part of the process?
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know that to be a fact. However, like
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 2: I said earlier in the interview, I am fearful that
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 2: AI is going to figure some of this shit out,
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 2: whether it be technology stuff or the fact that we're
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 2: not alone just by looking at all the disparate databases
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 2: and correlating data. especially if it gets connected to any
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 2: sort of genetic record, medical record, sensing system. And I
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 2: think that's a real threat that if I were to
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 2: advise the White House, they need to think about that
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 2: like third party unexpected disclosure pathway that artificial super intelligence provides,
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 2: both from a technology risk perspective, but also revealing some
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 2: of this too. And once again, you know, that artificial
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 2: silicon-based AI is like is that the infrastructure that we
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 2: need to communicate to some of this organic intelligence too,
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 2: because it's able to learn and figure out modalities of communication.
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know. So it's pretty crazy. Okay. It's a
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 1: lot to absorb. I know. Thank you very much for
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 1: being here, man. I appreciate it. It's always great to
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: talk to you and thank you for all your hard
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 1: work and exposing all this stuff. I mean, I really wonder,
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: like if it wasn't for you doing all this, how
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 1: much would we know? I don't know, man.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 2: I just, I hope this is the last time I
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 2: got a, send it on an interview. And it's been tough,
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 2: really tough. Like, it's been debilitating. I've gone through a lot.
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 2: You know, I've been in danger. And I've done a
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff for this country over the years. But
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 2: I'm honored to be that guy, I guess, and risk
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 2: it all to, you know, unveil this truth because it
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 2: really was a core secret.
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 1: Of the United States. I certainly think it moves the needle. Yeah,
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thank you.
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 1: Bye, everybody.