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Why Humans Are Wired for Connection (And What Happens When It Breaks) with Jackie Hallberg (Audio) · Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships are complicated.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: And when we try to pretend that they're not, they get even more complicated.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or if we don't trust talking to somebody about it, it becomes so much worse because then we're we're feeling guilty and shame and confusion, all while we're experiencing the just the chaos in general.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on, LMM family?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Glad you're back because I got some energy.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So be ready for some contagious, positive, and some like heartfelt type energy.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest today is a mental health hype woman, which I love because y'all know.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you've listened to any of the shows before, you know mental health is a thing that's important to me because I've struggled with it and suffered through some real personal things with addiction, et cetera.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so anybody that is an advocate for mental health, you know they're on my team.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: The interesting thing is we were connected before we were connected through an anthology.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe we'll talk a little bit about this anthology thing, which is super cool.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Her name is Jackie Halberg in Michigan, coming down from like the cold states right now.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: She is a consultant on all things crime, conflict, victimization, family reunification, re-entry.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, folks, if you can't tell by that list, she's a very empathetic person with a lot of compassion.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna do our best to tap into that and glean any of all that goodness that we possibly can.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if this is your first time here, you are listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where we get to see amazing human beings just like you tell the stories of how they're sharing their gifts and talents to lead this world better than they found it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to know Miss Jackie.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Miss Jackie, how are you?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Always great when I'm around you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love your energy.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's super like I we might have a problem here too.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can you imagine us in person at the same time in the same location?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I can.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think we'd have a lot of fun and maybe freak some people out, but in a good way.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to start off with the simple question to kind of get us warmed up.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I got one.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Here it is.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: What is a romance coach, and why does it matter?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: It is not going to be a simple answer, Jesse.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that is like hit me with the big one.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, it matters because when we are not happy with ourselves, if we're trying to connect with a partner, whether we're married in a longtime relationship, we're newly dating, maybe we want to date, but nobody's interested in us.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: If we give that negative energy out to our partner in home or on our profiles or any of that stuff, and we don't get positive back, we get more angry and more sad and more ick.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then we take that out into the world.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's violence, and there's violence in the home, there's violence on dates, there's violence at the workplace, there's all this stuff.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel very strongly because I work so much with crime and victimization in my day job that coming down to the basics of really making sure humans are mammals, Jesse.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: We are meant to connect and to populate and to feel all the feels and do all the things, but we are not meant to be solo.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: We can be solo for a very long time.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't mind being solo for a while, but we are meant to be surrounded by other humans.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And if we're negative and we're angry because we're not getting any, or because we're not dating, or because our relationship sucks, we can put that out for the world.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, you know, real talk, like real talk.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just go there.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've been accused and I've also experienced withholding.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've been accused now.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently, they were right.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like a friend of mine told me, she's like, Jesse, you are really great at figuring out what people want from you, giving it to them, and then resenting them for it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's deep.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that, Jack?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it means different levels if you're talking about a potential partner, if you're talking about a business relationship, if you're talking giving pro bono work, all the things.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do have that rinse resentment, they they won.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: They won.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Something from you, and they got a negative emotion from you.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then our brains and our bodies hold on to that and we start feeling icky, and then we might not trust other people.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: So then our walls go up a little bit more, and we're like, I'm never dating, I'm never doing business with them, I'm never gonna talk to them again.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we kind of lose because we could be shutting out somebody that is so amazing that could be so different and so powerful for us.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And for clarity, we're talking about like friendships and romantic relationships.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're so good at the work.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: You wouldn't be doing what to do if you don't.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: But some people might not understand that because I know some great people that have gone through some like relationship changes that it changes who they are in the workforce.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: They bring it to work.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people don't show up to work, not just because they're sick, but because something crappy is going on inside the house, whether it's their kids, their partner, whether it's their emotional response to what the fight that happened last night, or if there is violence, or if there's threats of I'm gonna leave you or something like that, there's no way it can't come into the workforce at times.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And the more we're aware of it and the more we're willing to go there, the easier it is for our staff, our colleagues, our business associates to feel like Jesse, I can wait.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Jackie, I need a break on this.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's some stuff going down.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Can we reschedule?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Can I have a little bit more grace this time?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when we think about what makes us truly happy, every one of us is a little different, but we're so biologically the same.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care how age difference, I don't care the gender, I don't care the race, the religious beliefs, any of the things.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Biologically, we as humans want to be wanted.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: We want those responses, like your person that attended your session wrote that great thing.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: We want to get the likes on on our social media page.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: We want people to say, Oh my gosh, I never knew that until you shared that.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: We want that, but we also want somebody to say, Jesse, I want to spend time with you.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Jesse, I want to learn from you.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: I want to, I want to be in your circle because you you just light me up, you make me feel good.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's what humans want.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And when we say, I don't need anybody, I can do it by myself, I I'm done with relationships.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're literally lying to ourselves.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are your thoughts on the on this statement?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're here to work, leave your personal crap at home.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Can I swear on here?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I didn't okay, but so yeah, I mean, we are not again, we are a mammal.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: We cannot just compartmentalize all day long.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: We can play it for a while, we can definitely play it for a while.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: But this beautiful thing up here that not one of us ever taps into enough is going to come out at a certain time and it's gonna say, Oh my gosh, I thought I could handle my stuff together.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think I'd have to take time off.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think I'd have to come get help.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think I was getting cranky to that person, but your home life is going to affect you.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Your personal mindset, your personal happiness, whether it's a confidence level or whether it's a self-esteem level, whether it's internal hate that you have for yourself because of something you did in the past, if you can't grow through that, you're going to bring all the negative to work or to a conference, to a training, to a business proposal, but you're also going to bring the good stuff.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: If things are rocking at home and you have very little stress, love you, they're they're cheering you on, they want to come to your conference, they're telling people to sign up for you, they're showing off your book you wrote.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know they're in your corner.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: You are going to just be elevated because that positive energy is going to trickle out, and we want that to come into the workforce.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So don't believe that.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Good juju home.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually, I've never heard anybody talk about it from that perspective because we want you to bring all your great stuff, the great energy from home.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't want the stinky human stuff from home.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I also like that you pointed out that we can do that, but it's not a sustainable approach, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are times where we got to, and I'm this way, it's time, it's focus time.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that mean?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: That means I'm ignoring everything and everybody else.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that feels good.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love those times, but it's not sustainable.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like after a period of time, it starts getting dark, it starts getting cloudy, it starts getting you know less than than amazing.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side of it, I'll say it this way I used to be an abuser of that language of leave your personal crap at home, we're here to work.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: What I've learned is trying to live that way took so much damn energy, it was exhausting.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when I finally decided to just be the same human I am all the time, like you said, I was able to bring a different level of connection, a different level, like a richer level of connection and energy because I wasn't separating the thing.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if I had a funky day and I had two or three nights of like bad sleep without my CPAP machine, I let people know.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or the guys, I remember I was marathon training for years and years, and my guys knew when I didn't run.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know this, right?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like a running, like, oh, Jesse didn't run.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, whatever, yeah, I did.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally they kept, they were like a hundred percent every time I skipped the run, they would call it out.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how do you know?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, because you're a pain in the ass when you don't run.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, it was my therapy, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so they could pick on that energy, anyways.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Main point, LM family out there.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're still playing the I'm a I'm this person at work and this person at home, it's a little easier.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's a lot easier if you just be a human being.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Jackie, you've mentioned a few times about bringing it to the workplace.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm hearing or taking from that is that there is business value for leaders and decision makers to engage, support, and accept the whole person.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Am I hearing that right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because we are not robots, even though we're in the land of AI these days, we are not computers, we are not robots.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, we can sustain for a little while and pretend everything's roses and butterflies.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm not saying free Pasco bitch to every single co-worker and don't do your job, you know, because you've had a bad day at home or because your partner is blah, blah, blah.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: It means acknowledging it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I will literally I'll tell a staff in the morning or something, I've got to focus.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I was up all night thinking about this.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: If I can't get this out right now, I'm gonna be distracted.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even say hi.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk later.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's okay.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: They don't need to know all my business.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I didn't sleep because of this or because I ate this, or you don't need to go into different, but just say today is a rock star day.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a couple hours that we can brainstorm.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: If anybody wants to come in, that's great.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Or it can be today is high impact day, and I need to really focus.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: So the door's gonna be closed.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that I don't care about what's going on in your life.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Let's circle back after lunch or something like that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So guarding your time, what I'm hearing here is boundaries and awareness of where your energy is and how to guard it so that you can elevate performance through the funkiness.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's like each one of us have different personalities.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing that I notice is people that do live alone or they don't have a big social network, they're not on social media, they're not dating, they're not in a relationship, they need to talk when they come to the office.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if that in some of your workshops, your construction sites, but in an office, you become almost like family because you're you're kind of stuck together for sometimes six to 10 hours a day.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the ones that don't always have people to vent to to talk to, again, we want to be wanted.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: We want somebody to say, Jackie, did you have a great day today?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Jackie, is there anything I could do for you?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: We want that.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And if we don't get it outside of the office, it's coming right in and it could suck out 45 minutes of productivity.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've seen that so many times.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do the LM Family Member Shout out, and this one goes to Miss Gillian Bryant, who recently sat through some training with me, the communication capabilities training, full day of torture.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she left this review.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: She says, Jesse helped me realize what I wasn't doing my best at and how I could improve in those categories.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of teaching points I can implement personally and professionally.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Gillian, thank you, sister, for leaving such a thoughtful comment.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that the stuff we went over touches you personally and professionally, because that's the whole point.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're one freaking human being, and my goal is to make life better for you on and off the clock.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the deal.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And folks, the rest of the family members out there, you know, I love attention.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love to know that you're out there.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime you take a chance to leave a comment, leave a review, do a share, do a like, all the things, any of the things, one or none, it makes me feel good, but more importantly, it gives me an excuse to shout you out in the future time.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you you got a lot, a lot of really deep insight about this the relationship.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, maybe, maybe a little around the block attention, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: What was it that helped you decide?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I am gonna focus on this romance thing because there is some business.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you get there?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's that's uh I would say it's a risky very risky.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's also even riskier because I still am a full-time day job employee, and I have a very big presence in my community with the kind of work I do because I run a nonprofit.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I've lived in my community my entire life.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: So having this kind of after-evening and weekend persona is a little different than saying, hey, I have a side hustle that I do the same type of work or that I do something that might be, I use words like intimacy in romance and a few other words that I'm not gonna use on your show that people don't know me.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Did you almost spin out your water?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um but a lot of people don't see that side of me in my day job.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I went to school to be a social worker thinking I was gonna help little tiny kids, Jesse.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted kids to be happy and not be sad.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: What I ended up getting thrown into about three months after I started working with little kids was saying, No, you need to work in the court system with kids that are breaking the law.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, I don't do that.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And from there, I learned because it wasn't just sadness, it was actually behavior response, people breaking the law, harming their siblings, doing stuff at school, threatening their teachers, all the things.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: It really showed me that relationship dynamic more so than just one-on-one therapy can really show you because you actually see the all sides of it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: All the work I did for those that many years working with people involved in the court system, whether it was juveniles or adults, or going into the prison system or working with people after they get out of jail and prison, every issue tied back to some person.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was either the way their parents treated them, the way their boyfriend and girlfriend did, their best friend, one of their old friends smeared stuff on social media, my baby mama did this to me, my this person, all the things came back to that relationship.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I am always a relationship's first person.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the world does not go around without relationships.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody go to your trainings if they didn't like you.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: They're not coming just because of the training, they come for Jesse's training.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And when you have negative relationships, if you've grown up in a household that modeled negative relationships and you think that's all you have, that's what you're gonna put into the world, and it's gonna eat you up, and you're gonna start self-medicating, you're gonna start doing self-harm behaviors, or you're gonna hurt other people.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided at first when I wanted a kind of a night job type of second hustle, I was trying to do fun things like helping people travel because that's my therapy.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've been to all 50 states and I did 26 all by myself because you I was able to, but people weren't really buying into that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So then I was trying to be just a re-entry consultant, just talking about people getting out of jail and prison and how I can help the family.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, again, people weren't buying that too much because I can do it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I got my probation officer, I know how to deal with my wife, I know how to deal with my husband, whatever, my the guy I'm dating, whoever.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when I started flipping to the romantic side of interactions with significant intimate partners, whole different ballgame.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now people are still a little scared to talk to me because they think I'm gonna start talking about things they don't want to share with a private person, but yet the most natural thing to talk about.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And in my my generation, we grew up thinking that the only happy woman is somebody that's married and has kids.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't talking about what quality bedroom time looked like or what it meant to possibly have to deal with maybe running a different partner or kind of getting bored with yours or frustrated.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: We were just taught you need to get married, stay married, and have kids.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's your role.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And once you once you run into relationship issues, if you don't understand how to grow, how to communicate, how to maybe talk to a counselor or a coach or talk about the important things, those walls go up and the wide gets wider.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And pretty soon you don't even know who you're freaking crawling into bed with at night and you're hoping they don't even touch you.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And how can we function and how can we be productive at work and how can we learn new things and how can we emulate happiness to our kiddos when we're absolutely miserable in our relationships?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't know where we were going today, did you, Jesse?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm so glad.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's this is important because there's very few people that spend this much time in this area.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: You've got tons, and you've got you really care about it because you see how it affects the whole person professionally, personally, etc.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not tiptoeing around like the real real, right?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the scenario you just described of like I'm going to bed with this person, I just hope they don't touch me.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I remember feeling that, and I'm sure she felt that too.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, right.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember feel like, oh, but yes, but again, what was the the formula, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Graduate, get a job, get did we wait until it got so bad we felt that way?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: If we could have seen the little signs a little bit earlier and figured it out, we might have had way better differences.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: So because I kind of was already an adult in the social media boom when it first started, I don't know if I was lucky or not lucky, but every social media profile I've had, and I don't know if gentlemen get the same response, I get very interesting messages, and I always have some are so inappropriate, some are just kind of out there, some I really think just want to be friends or be cordial, and then they dump on me about how miserable they are in their marriage, how they haven't had intimacy in forever, how they don't know how to talk to their partner.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: And they have literally used probably thousands of my hours for free for days now.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, wait a minute, we need to talk about this because he needs to pay for more vocations, but I also got to pay for my likes and all that stuff.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't why can't you spend money on talking to somebody with me?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm not gonna force you to stay in that relationship, I'm gonna help you if it works, but if it's appropriate to get out, I'm not gonna say, Oh my gosh, you can't get divorced, you can't leave them.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: But we're gonna do it in a way, we're gonna be as safe as possible with both you and those that person's feelings and emotions because they might they might not want to be touched by you by you, but they are scared to death of that word divorced, or they're scared to death to be alone, and so it's a very even though I'm not scared to go there, it's a very delicate situation, and every family is unique, every relationship is unique.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Some relationships have multiple partners, and that's every everybody wants that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Other people have multiple partners that the one partner doesn't know about, and so it's a different discussion.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's hard, that's very hard.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm thinking back the two times, two of the three darkest times in my life.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was married both times, and after ending those marriages, it was extremely difficult because well, one, I was all up in substance abuse and self-medication and all that, but it was the way I lived through it was it was just a complete, utter failure on my part of being able to be a man.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's how it felt for me.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's heartbreaking.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward, right?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: 10, 15, 20 years now.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I recognized, yeah, I contributed to the problem, but I wasn't the only one.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it wasn't just me, but I'm gonna tell like those years, it was it was a dark time because I didn't have anybody to talk to.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who do you talk?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: You don't like I'm a dude, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're not supposed to talk about that stuff, and so I was numbing and suppressing all of that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I know what my upbringing and my religion or my mom's And says about it, it's not a good thing.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I know a hundred million percent for me and them, it was the best thing.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like we needed to do it because the the path that we were on may not have been like may not have been violent and abusive, but we absolutely would not have grown into the individuals that we are today.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was almost a necessity to make those end those relationships.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I and I often wonder like, could we have worked through it?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back, my answer is always no.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like no, like we we could have saved the marriage, but sacrificed who we could have been.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, that's kind of what do you think about that?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Am I just you you are 1000% right in so many areas, Jesse?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things is, I mean, I know you said it wasn't for religious relations on why you stayed or anything, but the fact that we grow up as kiddos hearing what relationships are supposed to look like, and then if ours doesn't, we don't want to tell somebody or ask for help because it does make us feel like a failure before the the divorce or separation even happens.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh my gosh, I'm not fulfilling what I was supposed to, or they don't like me anymore, or oh, I get so angry, and I never thought I'd be an angry person.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: So that all plays into us, and when we start doing those mental games to ourselves, it's so easy to turn to substances, it's so easy to message this pretty little lady on social media that's going to be so nice to me.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she shouldn't treat you like that way, and it happens.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me I'm wrong.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, no, I know friends.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Why are you so dumb?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Don't like why why can't we go to our partners?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I've screwed up a lot, Jesse.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the reasons I do this.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just the work with I've had with clients over the years, it is literally learned experience.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I would, if I was perfect in relationships, I would still be married, and I'm not, you know, so it's a lot of life lessons that I've learned as well.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: I have not had roses and butterflies relationships ever.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: I've gotten played probably more times than I care to talk about, um, taken advantage of, been lied to, all the things.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: But if I dwelled on that, I would literally probably never come out from under a rock.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: I would not have fun, I would not be able to enjoy my kids, I wouldn't do the kind of work I do.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't even want to probably get dressed during the day because we are our worst enemies at times.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I want you to think about it, you know, just because we heard those stories that you got to get married or you're a failure if you can't provide for your whatever.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: How many mammals mate for life, Jesse?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think penguins, right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Birds are probably the biggest kind of critters that do, like I know eagles and I think swans, I think mate for life.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think elephants may, but other than that, there are very few mammal species that mate for life.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I am not saying go ditch your partner so you can go booty somebody else.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm saying is those feelings are going to surface.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't have a solid foundation, if you can't talk to your partner and say, Oh my gosh, it has been a while, and all of a sudden I started feeling these feelings, and I'm kind of freaked out because I don't want to go outside.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: How can we work together?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, can you imagine how strong you have to be to look your partner in the face and actually say that?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot, and so trying to figure out how to adapt to I do want to be your only mate for life, but I need to know how to make you satisfy.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm not disregarding what I need as well.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: How can we work through this?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because Jesse, I don't care if you are the exact same age when you date, I don't care if you think they're the love of your life.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: When you're in a relationship, you're both gonna grow differently.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have different successes, your bodies are gonna change, you are going to think about other things that are important to you.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: What was important to you in your 20s is not always gonna be in your 30s, in your 30s, it's not the same as your 50s.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if you grow way faster and you want to get involved in all this stuff and have these businesses and do all this stuff, and your partner's just like, let's just sit on the couch and watch TV and wait for the grandkids to come, especially if you got ADHD like me, you're like, come on, we gotta do stuff.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no way.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna explode.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: So communication and if in talking about expectations and changed expectations, two of the easiest ways to fix what's broken, or it's the easiest thing to break what might have been able to stick together if you don't do it.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what I'm am I wrong in when you're doing this romance coaching, you're doing it with women, you're doing it with men, you're doing it with coaches.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever is appropriate.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, a couple things I won't do.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: I will not work with somebody that is manipulating their partner or there's domestic violence.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: I will give resources if somebody was to reach out to me, but I am not going to be living where they're living because this is all virtual.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I may do some pop-up events when I travel or maybe in my hometown, but right now it's all virtual.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't be your safety person.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: I am not your therapist.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: I do have a degree in counseling, but this is so different.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna get analyzed, you're not getting therapy from me.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: We are talking down and dirty and figuring out what you can do differently or how can you look at your partner differently if it's one-on-one.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: If it's group, you're gonna have some homework and they're gonna have some homework and we're gonna work together.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we might do it one-on-one for one session, and the next session we're both all three together, or however many people.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: It is most men tend to reach out, but they don't always want that actual session.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: They want some advice, they want somebody to be nice to them and tell them that their woman is, you know, really the problem or something like that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I implore you, whatever your gender is, whatever your age is, don't think you have to deal with it alone, and don't think you are meant to be miserable.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you are miserable in your relationship, there is at least probably about an 80% chance your partner is miserable too.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Two miserables cannot cannot fix that on their own without some intervention.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed, agreed.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think I know I have two, I have a bunch of exes.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Two of them have gone to therapy and came back and said they were pissed off at their therapist.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like, why are you pissed off at the therapist?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And both of them similar answers were because they said it wasn't you.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Every one of us hurt, every one of us have our own issues before we get in that relationship.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And this beautiful brain of ours, it responds at different times.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if we grew up in trauma, if we have a lot of grief in our life, we may think, oh, I got through that.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, six months later, two years later, boom, our brain kind of changes.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if we can't communicate, we're gonna put all these wheels up and we're gonna complain and compare and do all the things that push our partner away instead of have them bring them in when it's our toughest time and we need their support and we need them to understand what's going on with us.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, okay.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you're bringing up all kinds of things.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's important because I had therapists state mandated and some that I elected on my own to get, but now it's bringing up memories, right?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: There was one relationship I was in, amazing, and all of the women I've been freaking amazing, had no business being with them, but one of them we we split up because I had to focus, had a really bad project, and when I focus, I'm an expert at focusing, but like I said earlier, what that means is I ignore everything else, and so I absolutely ghosted on her.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And in my brain, I told her, like, hey, I need to focus on this thing, so I'm not gonna be as available.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, and what I yeah, I know what that meant.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: That meant it's gonna be a few weeks, maybe a couple of months.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, in my brain, that makes sense.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now she's thinking, okay, we're gonna hang out on Saturday, right?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that was not like I'll work for seven days, so, anyways, after the the project cleared, I knew I'm like, oh god, I can't just not, I gotta call her.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it way it was ended up being like four months, and I was hoping that she would pick up the phone and hang up on me.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't, and yeah, I'm like, oh god, this is gonna be hard.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, you know what?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's meet for lunch.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh god, this is getting harder.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta face it, right?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And but I, you know, I understood how stinky it was, and so we met for lunch.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: She was amazing, and she's like, Jesse, here's the thing.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I like you, you're a good guy.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: We we had a lot of fun, and she's like, but for us to continue going forward, I need you to share that pain with me.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I want it to be there to comfort you and hold you and and and walk with you through it.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't gonna solve it, but you didn't even share it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I swear, like in that moment, my brain said, Hell no, I ain't sharing it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's mine.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew I'm like, and so we talked a little bit more.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, So, what do you think?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, I gotta be honest, like I don't want to share that with anybody.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know it's sounds sick, but I need that all to myself, and then it's like, Well, Jesse, you got some work to do before you go and you know hurt other people's feelings.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, point being, right, we would have needed, but at that point in my life, I was like, Oh, I it was like, okay, I gotta work on this, which again is another one of those things that led me to like, I need to get a therapist because there's stuff like I I need help, I gotta unpack the stuff.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was functioning on the outside, everything's great and beautiful, but there's some weird stuff that had going on, and I like I'm glad that we're talking about this because relationships are complicated.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and when we try to pretend that they're not, they get even more complicated, or if we don't trust talking to somebody about it, it becomes so much worse because then we're we're feeling guilty and shame and confusion all while we're experiencing the just the chaos in general, being with somebody, even if they're the best partner ever, even if you are super attracted to them, even if they take really good care of you in whatever way you want to be taking care of, it is always going to be confusing you chaos because you were made to have your brain, Jesse.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was made to have my brain, they were having to have theirs, and we cannot, even if we want to, we can't read each other's thoughts in their brains.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed, agreed, and women are really bad on that, Jesse.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I've done it so many times.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: We want you to just be able to look at us and know exactly what's on our brain and just take care of us, hold us, make us feel good, or whatever.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Men sometimes too.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: You should have known I was having a bad day, and you shouldn't have came and asked me that right now.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: You should have given me a few minutes for women.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think me specifically, I'm like, I gave you the non-verbals, I told you earlier it was a rough day, and you didn't even come in, want to help.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I get cranky too, you know.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, if he can't read my brain and says it's up to him to come and make amends, I'm not gonna remind him.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, I'm pretty dense, and then there's this thing that I do where if you're not gonna communicate to me and you're like expecting me to read the tea leaves, I have us like an extra dense switch that I can turn off.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Which is I know it's I was gonna say, yeah, it doesn't make it better, but and I know where it comes from.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned earlier, right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Trauma, right?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Came up the tone of communication in the house when I was a kid was passive aggressive, and so it's always trying to interpret what that means.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was that a compliment, was that a stab?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like and and so my density in my head is a like self-preservation mechanism for me to like protect myself and like not get my feelings hurt on every statement, which I miss a lot.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: I miss so many signals, but then there's this thing I do, and I don't know what like I can't really put my finger on what what triggers it, but I will get denser.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, you don't want to be clear, I get dumber now.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's just a spiral.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't, it doesn't help.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you do go forward, you know, you are putting yourself on the line because it's not common for you, it's a new response for you.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're it's almost like a self-preservation by being denser means I don't have to get as involved because that would be very vulnerable.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: And here I go trying to help.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: And if she shuns me or pushes me away or I said the wrong thing, then I don't want that reaction or response either.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's normal, even though it doesn't sound normal, if that makes sense.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, that's accurate because that's it.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I'm gonna play your game and then I'm gonna get in trouble more.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Screw it, I'm just gonna be in trouble.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not even like why expend any energy?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just be mad.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're mad already.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fine, like I'm working over it, which is you know, callous, but that's the way I function.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how fulfilling is it when you have a breakthrough with an individual or with a couple?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: How fulfilling is that?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I like to make sure that it's their breakthrough and not what I want to see for them.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you're looking at possibly even a marriage therapist or a romance coach, relationship worker, you have to make sure that they're not more vested in your relationship than you are.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that in helper people like me, I've been a helper my whole pretty much since probably the day I was born, you know, because there was a lot of stuff in my family that I I had to be involved in too, which I think most of us are to some capacity.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: But if you own it more as the therapist, as the coach, you you almost not you almost set them up in a rough way.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I do know some coaches that really have a power control dynamic and they want you to do what they say because I know Jesse, what's going to work for you?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: You you answered a couple questions, I know what it's gonna work for you.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, so yes, fulfilling, but it has to be fulfilling because they decided you do that self-reflection.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: I can give all the tools and trips.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you follow me on TikTok or my Just Jacks Advising LinkedIn page, I'm doing a tip every single day in February.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I did, and that's more on love.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then in January, I did a tip every day on strengthening your relationship.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Both stuff you can do differently or start.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: You can't become a new person overnight, but you can do baby steps how to try to do things a little different or being more aware or trying to talk different.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not willing to do that, don't waste my time, you know.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Don't waste time saying, Oh, yeah, I really want to make it better with her when you really want to go jump in bed with this person, or you can't wait to be solo or single or something like that.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Be real.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: So come to me and just say, I have been in a relationship for 25 years, and everybody's gonna get so mad at me when I divorce, and I don't want to break her heart or his heart, what do I do?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I can help you through some of that process to make it a little smoother, but I'm not gonna say, Oh, you're right, Jesse, you definitely need to divorce her, or oh my you you can't do that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't want you to break her heart.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm that's that's too much.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when you say kind of that rewarding, fulfilling type of thing, every human I interact with, no matter where they are, no matter it's my day job, my side business, the romance stuff, my friends, my family, I want them to succeed.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: I want them to be happy.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have one life, one life.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are literally miserable at home, you're miserable in your career, you're miserable in your physical body because you don't know how to get energy, or you don't like yourself because you're not doing the work medically or emotionally with therapy, you're you're not gonna enjoy this one life that we are given, and you're gonna self-medicate, or you're gonna self-harm, or you're gonna get to that violent level.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So every interaction I have, I try to be as positive as possible.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: I am not Pollyanna.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know people are gonna trick me and trick other people and hurt people because they're so pretty.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: But to see even a little breakthrough, even saying, wow, I have never been able to talk to my partner when they were crying because it makes me mad.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: But now I go up and I just hug them and say, When you're done crying, I'm here for you.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's a huge breakthrough right there, you know.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't mean that they have to stick together, it doesn't mean they have to start having, you know, the best bedroom time ever, but it means whatever works for them, they feel that there's some kind of growth.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't say you're gonna meet with me twice and this is gonna happen.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna meet with me after 10 minutes and boom, you're gonna be a different person.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's gonna be different for everybody, and we can start very small and have significant progress in our relationship.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: But again, another flashback you're having.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have a thing about touch that I was not aware of until there were there were two points.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: There was one, I was on a bachata dance team, like it's uh Latin, and the choreography.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: At one point in the choreography, the lady would rub their hand on the face of the guy, right?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we're working through that, my partner, she would go to do that, and I would flinch and I would pull away.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know it.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they would we would watch the video and they're like, Jess, why you you're screwing it up?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's wrong with you?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, What are y'all talking about?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: No idea.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, No, I don't, I had no idea.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: We watched the replay, I'm like, Dad, and it was it was like, I mean, pronounced, and it took me a lot of work for me not to flinch in that moment.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first time, and this was you know, maybe 10 years ago when I became aware of like, oh, there's something there.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward, this was maybe five years ago, a friend of mine, and this is all to the point of like small things can make a big difference.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: She pointed out, she's like, Jesse, a friend that I totally she's the first woman that I had a friendly non-sexual relationship, which was a big thing like for me when we we connected way, way back when, and she's another amazing woman, but we never crossed that line, and so she's very special to me because it's like a growth thing for me, right?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, and she's amazing.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: She pointed, she's like, you know, Jess, when we hug, you never hug with both hands, like like the R like Discord, and she's like, I know you trust me, and I know how you know we've cried together and blah blah blah.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: So all the things are extremely vulnerable with her.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I don't understand why you can't hug me that way, and she's but sometimes you do, and she's like, but you're not it still doesn't feel right, it feels off.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh, I know when I do both hands.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I lock my fingers together.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Why do you she say she's why do you do that?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, because it's less energy than trying to hold my hands up independently, and she's like, Man, you're a freaking robot.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, I know.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she says, Well, Jess, I am and beautiful, right?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: She says, I'm gonna ask you from now on when you hug me, I want to feel the palm of your hands on my back.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is, and I said, I could do that, and like it was mechanical for me, like because to me it was a hug, but the I could feel the depth and the connection and how it and it was just a little tweak that I've made since then to like, okay, make sure your palms touch the back, right?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a that's a better hug, and it made a big difference for me, and and it it gotten me comfortable with the touch thing and and whatever growth, all that to say.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love your growth, that's huge, yeah.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: But little things, right?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just little things can transform our relationships.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I also I want to applaud you for saying, look, it's not about what I want for them, it's about their awakenings, it's about their experiences of growth, because it's very easy, even in just you know, the type of coaching I do, to get hyper-focused on an outcome and and distract from helping the person build capabilities and learn and grow.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the goal all the time, whether they have the big giant six-figure outcome or not, is irrelevant, but it's very it takes a discipline to like suppress my agenda and focus on the person.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: So good on you for being able to do that because relationships like romantic relationships are just my clients, and so they they had to understand it is on them.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you what works for me, but it may not work for you or your partner.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to be vulnerable together and we have to be open to exploring new things because you know, when you talked about the touch, Jesse, it really hit me because um I do this thing called friend zoning, which it's a nice thing, uh, but you only get a couple chances with me.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And if I I don't care how handsome you are, I don't care if you do all the right things.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: If if you fall into my friend zone category, you're not coming out, it is not going to happen.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want you to come up and hug me a certain way that you maybe you did in the past, or the way I want somebody else that I'm not friend zoned with.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I do hate that term friend zone, by the way, but it's the only way I can describe this.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I have been told by hundreds of people, both men and will women, that I give some of the best hugs ever.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's an energy thing for me.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: But if I don't trust you, if I'm friend zoning you, if I feel like you're shady or we don't have that connection, you are gonna get this kind of little side bump hug and I'm gonna be pulling away.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: I and people don't.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Always read that.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, could you leave me alone?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is not your body to touch.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if we get that way with our partners and their touch literally irritates us, and we're not able to communicate with that, it's not going to get better on its own.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if you were to come to me and talk about that touch thing, we would start very small with that.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you really do not want your partner to touch you physically or the sexual parts of you, when was the last time you guys held hands?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: People don't want to ever hold somebody's hands.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are against rubbing feet, other people are wanting to lick the feet, you know.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Where can you?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did say that, didn't I?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: Where can you go?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's a happy medium where you can try some different touch that you both enjoy or that you're both willing to try to experience without you forcing it and them hating it or them not feeling anything good that tingles and makes them happy and they're just doing it because they're your spouse.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm gonna go here a minute.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people think a lot of people think women's bodies are not meant to enjoy sex, especially as they age.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, it means that you are not stimulating us or you are driving me crazy, or I have friend zoned you, or I do not get the touch and the mental stimulation at the same time that I expected out of you, or that you used to give me, or that I feel that my body needs at this point in my life, especially when you have a career and you have kids or you have these kind of responsibilities.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you're super stressed because of money, or because of this, intimacy is going to change in your relationship, but it does not just one day be wonderful and then it's gone the rest of the day, unless there's a physical or mental cognitive change in that person's body.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: There are things that change for that now.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Menopause is different.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes your body literally doesn't even know who you are and it wants to fight you, but there's ways to be intimate that may not be the same, but could be just as rewarding or maybe even better, you know.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to be willing to experience and explore.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it I get these men that'll tell me, Yeah, we haven't had sex in three years.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I'm ever getting it again.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think she wants me to have somebody on the side.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Have you really talked to her about that?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't think she's gonna be type of relationship, then please go take her on tonight and let me sleep, type of a thing, whole different mindset.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: But if you guys win into your relationship, we are the only people forever, and you are not satisfied because you just think she doesn't want to give it to you anymore.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all are way past the talking point.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: We need to go baby steps and start working on what to that point.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to challenge anybody that's listening to not just blame your partner, not just blame yourself, but say, I want to learn something new and I want to try or I want to figure out what is best for me and best for my partner, whether or not they want it or not.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: You can't change your partner.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: You can't say, honey, I'm gonna go to a romance coach and I'm gonna be better.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna love me and want me to touch again, right?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: But you may learn different opportunities that might make it easier for them to start feeling like maybe I kind of am back into him.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe if you guys both come together as a couple, just because you both heard the same things, you did the same maybe exercise with me or something, does not mean you're both gonna enjoy it or grow at the same time or want to ever do it again.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's okay, but it's the way you communicate about that.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, oh, I was so excited to try that and you'd hated it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you know what?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you could have done it this way, maybe I would have liked it, or if we would have had the dishes all washed before we started touching that I wouldn't have thought about how I got to get up and do the dishes after this, or before the kids get up in the morning because the dishes are always done.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: We got to think about that stuff before we just focus on just that intimate time.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: What else happens the longer you're in a relationship, the older you get?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just that our bodies change.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, beautiful.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's reality, right?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so many things that each individual has bouncing around in their head that could be the block.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then because we don't talk about it, we just let years of baggage build and build and build and build, and and we think like, well, we just need to go somewhere else.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're gonna have the same outcome eventually, because the the problem is getting clear and and rather going to the conflict and clearing out the clutter so that you can stay connected, or so that you can get clear that we do need to separate instead of just letting it build up and hide behind all of those.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then let's take it to another level.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, say you're having all these issues and you're just not where you want to be with your partner, and you go to the bar every Friday night with your buddies and you bitch about your partner, and then they're complaining about theirs, and then you start thinking all women suck and you're stuck here, and there's you should be treated better in this and this, or you're a woman, you go out with your sister, and all you do is complain about your partner.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: He wants to do this, he tells me I don't do this, he compares me to this person.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Then you're hearing that person say, Yeah, I never really liked how we did that to you, too.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Then you're getting extra people's area in your brain that gives you almost double reason not to want to be intimate or love that partner or work on your relationship.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you come to something that's not going to judge you, that is not vested in your relationship?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's like I said, it's not my, you're not with your bias, you know.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so, how can we have you focus on not complaining about your partner, working it out, or talking directly with your partner, or talking with somebody like a coach or a therapist that isn't going to slam you, slam them in a way that pushes you guys even further apart.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Again, the I mentioned I've had several therapists in my life.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: The last therapist I had was by choice.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: And when we started working together, she's like, Okay, what do you want?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are we doing this?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: I said, good.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Here's the deal.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's very clear.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was this specific.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Look, I am content, fulfilled, I love my life, I have no yearning, hunger, appetite, want to be in a relationship.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, but everybody I talk to is like, oh, what's wrong with you?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, all and I'm like, is something wrong with me?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Am I a bad guy for not wanting to be in a relationship?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Oh, see, that's pretty clear.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: I said, That's what we got.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so they of course I was massive workaholic.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: I still am just healthier than I used to be.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: We've made a lot of progress in a lot of ways in terms of me taking care of better care of myself.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the conclusion, like, I couldn't talk to a friend because when I did, they would say, like, wow, it's just, you know, dating today sucks, or or you know, what's wrong with you?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you blah, blah.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just they were there was a biased perspective all the time.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Getting my therapist was very objective perspective.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we did a lot of work and a lot of different things, practices, and whatever to kind of sort through it.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And in the end, she's like, Jess, these were not her exact words, it was what I remember.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Look, you're not a bad guy.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you were out there, I remember she said this if you were out there diddling around and saying you don't want to be in a relationship, then I would say that's not okay.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: But you're not, you're like hyper-focused on your things, on your objectives, your goals, and all the things.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been in relationships, so maybe you're in a season of your life that and it's like, and you just need to give yourself permission to not feel bad about it.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: I remember what she said, I was like, I just felt all the weight come on, like, oh my god, like, yeah, like, yeah, it's listening to every other pressure, the society pressure, your friends, family, maybe family.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's the thing is like some of us are in places we want to be in a relationship, and that is great, but we're gonna find people that are out to play us, and all I want if I'm looking for a relationship, I just want your honesty.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me you want to call, tell me you want a companionship.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even want to be intimate with you, but I do want somebody to occasionally go to a ball game with or out to dinner or something.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay as long as you're honest.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the things that bothers me the most about dating apps because I've had some I've met some great humans through dating apps, some that I spent time with in person, some that I will never talk to again, some that I only talk to through the phone, you know, texting.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: I never got level, but it's so easy to lie and think it's okay because you're not necessarily the real person on a dating app.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: Don't do that because there are other people that are going to believe you, and that is gonna put them 10 steps behind because you're gonna either confuse them, break your break their heart, or they're going to think that they are such a bad judge of character, they're never gonna have the person.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that is when I do a little bit of shaming.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't usually judge people, but if you are intentionally lying to somebody, now it's okay to say, Oh, you're beautiful.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to go out to dinner with you.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know if I want a relationship or if we will ever see each other again, but how about we meet and just see what's there?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, yes, please, because I feel the same.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I'm person, but why don't we do dinner?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't we go for a walk at the beach?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't we, you know, just do something to see in person if it's different?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can get instant chemistry off of a social context, you can get all these releases of all your endorphins, and it just feels like because what did I say?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Humans want to be wanted, and you get you are the most handsome guy I've seen in forever.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, you actually listen to me.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, you like going for finding waterfalls too?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: I do too.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: You want to go to Thailand?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, it just spurs all this stuff, and we're like, oh, and then all of a sudden they do ghost you, or you become intimate and vulnerable, and you think you've got a future with this person, and then they're like, I never told you I wanted a relationship.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, you did.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it'll be like complete that dating app, I'm never doing it again, I'm never talking to men or women or whatever.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: You are a grown-ass human, you don't deserve to look at other humans, and that says so much about that other person, and that's what I really try to get across when people have been shafted or they've been out of the dating space a while and they never really thought they would date again, or they think they're too old to date, which you're never too old to date.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: But when they start feeling that way and they feel like it's never going to happen, it's never gonna happen unless you put yourself out there.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of things I do with people that are interested in dating or they've been on in dating and stuff to do it a little bit safer.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's a few things that you can do to try to make sure that they are a little bit more real.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: You can't predict if somebody's going to lie to you.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I always say when you're dating, even if those endorphins are five million percent and you're just sparkling everywhere, don't believe everything right away and just assume to date for a while.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Even if they're like, Hey, maybe I'll move in with you, or oh, could you move here if you're doing a long distance thing?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Give yourself some time because even if you are an older human, you got time, you got time.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we got way more time than we know.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, this has been amazing conversation.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna shift gears.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mentioned at the beginning of the of the conversation the anthology thing, and you mentioned your activity on LinkedIn, and that's where you and I originally connected.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know what an anthology means, except that I was invited to contribute to this thing, and I think you've you've been on a couple of them.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: You've done four.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what give what what the hell's an anthology?
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: An anthology is a group of people writing about the same type of topic, but your chapter is your life, my chapter is my life.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: But there's one main theme.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: So the first uh book I wrote in was on my divorce.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a couple other authors that all wrote about their divorce experience.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: I never read one of the other authors, I never even read my story after I sent it into the publisher, so I don't even know what the heck's out there.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: Second one, it was about moving beyond limitations, and I talked about a victimization I had and how I had to grow through that.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then the third one was the one we were in together that was all about how we we show up on social media, but we're really awesome humans to begin with, type of a thing.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: There's much fancier name for the book, and I love that we're in there together, but it's something that was, you know, very cool.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I did a legacy book, and a legacy is just kind of what if your life does end tomorrow?
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want people to remember you?
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and so I that story would be different if I wrote it today.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be different in five years, but it's just something I wrote out there.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: I've wanted to be an author since I was a kiddo, but putting yourself out there, Jesse, sharing your story, whether you do it like this on your podcast, you came to my podcast, doing it in a book, it helps so many other people because we keep so much private because we think we're the only one that's experienced that.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we're the only one.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we limit the other people's growth by holding our crap in.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: And again, that's us to be angry people, and then we take it.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in our partner, and then we bring it to the workforce, and then there's a war and violence and all the crap.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: We deserve to be happy and healthy and say, Man, that stuff sucked in my life, but look at me now.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: I am happy, we've lived through crap that I have personally done to myself or others, and people have done to myself because we are never, we are never limited to the worst decision we've ever made.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: And some people will judge you, they'll be like, Oh, she divorced or he cheated or they lied or they went did a criminal decision or they went to jail.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: That is not who you have to be the rest of your life, even if other people are gonna judge you and they're not gonna trust you, they're not meant to be your people, right?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right, 100%.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have another book that I wrote, it's based on my my life experience, and it was, you know, I don't know if I mentioned this, but I know some of the regular LM family members know this.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've wrestled with addiction most of my life, and coming up in June, I'll be 10 years celebrating 10 years.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do a phone call to celebrate it.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so proud of the boo.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this time is 10 years.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've attempted sobriety before multiple times, and you know, for a bunch of different all of it's in the book, right?
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Different reasons I started drinking and using and manipulating, doing all that stuff again.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the the awakening that happened for me this time was when I realized that all of that stuff, the garbage, the dark, wicked things that I did didn't have to stay in the form of shame.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: I could transform them and make them valuable for other people.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: And when I had that, like it but again, this was a state-mandated therapist that helped me have that awakening.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh shit, man, I got a lot of garbage that I could help, like hard, ugly stuff that I can help people with.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it totally, if we were to plot my trajectory in terms of contribution into the world and even like our annual income from that point, it was a hard line to the right, up into the left.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you didn't just help others, you helped it.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's this perpetual thing, right?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I continue, I mean, we say it a lot in like 12-step rooms, you got to give it a way to keep it.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's one of those things that I got to continue to share and be prepared and willing to share the dark, stinky stuff, but in a way that we're not commiserating, we're not accomplices, all swimming.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: What a friend of mine calls it the trauma olympics.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're actually converting those that darkness into value to help other people out of, or more importantly, help them know that they're not alone, that they're not the only one.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, similar to what you're doing, it was it was a huge deal.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: You and I did a live stream, super, super high energy.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are doing this conversation with super super high energy.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're you're willing to go and have like the hard.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say for me, the relationship thing is not necessary, or the relationship conversations is not necessarily hard, it's messy for me, like in my head, it's just messy, and so it's easier to not talk about because who hasn't screwed up in a relationship, right?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: And when we get a new relationship, we do have that honeymoon phase and we want to talk about all the good stuff, and we love the way our bodies and brains are responding to all the lovey dovey stuff.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: We don't say, Hey baby, I might totally go back to my old ways here in a couple weeks.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, can we talk about it?
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: But we should why can't we?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you are gonna be intimate and let somebody touch all over your body, why can't you use words with that person?
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, so well, we're gonna have to clip that for sure.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so are you ready for the grand slam closing question?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and I'm excited about you.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: One, because your energy, I think you and I, it's like this instant connection in terms of us like bouncing back and forth and playing off of it and building up like the intensity, because this has been a really intense conversation, and you have, like I said at the beginning, you have a compassion and empathy for the human experience, and so because of all of that, I'm excited to hear what your answer is.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, here's the question: What is the promise you are intended to be?
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've never heard that question asked to me.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: I feel strongly that my purpose is to make the world a happier, healthier, safer place.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: I used to have very wild expectations that I would see world peace in my lifetime and all the things.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now I care about one at a time.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it the promise is my life is never written in the stones, you know, it's gonna change, it's gonna adapt.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: I might not be fully functioning someday.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: What can I do while I'm here visibly able to speak and move and do the things?
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: How can I have the best intention and make the best mark on this world so nobody will ever say that I did something to harm other humans?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh damn, gangster.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's gonna be peace on your earth, on your world, and you're actually doing it every single day.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I knew it, I knew it was gonna be powerful.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: That was nuts.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have fun with just coming up with that was intense?
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good, good, good.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you've been super gracious with your time and your energy.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: I and you know, I'm gonna behave and not monopolize all of it just for me because the world needs it.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am really one, not just motivated or and inspired, but maybe a little bit in awe of how much of yourself you you share.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been able to see you on your live streams and even in this conversation, you don't hold back.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a beautiful example for other people to work towards if they're not already there, because I know how freeing that can be.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we all have something special, weird thing, interest in us that if we just took the risk like you did, we could have dramatic impact in the lives around us.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I applaud you for doing that.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want to leave your guests with understanding that no matter where they are in their world, first of all, they have survived every bad thing that has come their way, and second of all, you never know what the next minute of the day is gonna bring you.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: Don't live in that ick because it can be so much better.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: And some people might not want to pay for therapy or coaching or don't think it's worth the value.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: How much you spending in beer over a month because you're trying to do research, how much you do doing even caffeine because you can't sleep, because you're stressed out all the time.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you gotta add 17 cups of coffee in the morning and you got to get all the fancy ones.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_02: How much you putting into that?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you value yourself to literally help yourself in your relationships?
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I am not just working with people that are in marriage or or already dating or having issues with who they're dating.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: It could be just to self-reflect and start loving yourself again, not in a therapeutic way, but in a way so that you have value for yourself.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're ready to give that to somebody else, we can start opening those doors a lot easier.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: So don't feel weird, don't feel like, oh, I'm a man, I can't talk about that.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: Most of my people are men again, guys.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it is something that I wish if the guys in my life, whether they're friends or family or anything like that, knew that there were safe people to go to like me, that you're not to be judged, that you can talk about emotions without feeling like, oh my gosh, they're gonna think I'm not manly or something.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not like that.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: And for the women there, if you are finding the same kind of relationship patterns over and over, it's time to break that cycle, honey.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to break it.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I can help you with that too.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: So reach out to me.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: Jesse has all my contact information.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love to talk through LinkedIn.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: I do a show every single Monday night at 9 p.m.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: that I do not talk about relationships and stuff, it's about other stuff.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was hyping Jesse the other day.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the things that you build connections on.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: And when we build relationships, we realize how important it is to take care of ourselves and then our person and then.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: You change the world too.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, we will absolutely put all the links in the show notes so people can get in contact with you.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you better get in contact with her because Jackie's awesome.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: The live stream, Jess Jackson guests.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um just Jackson guests.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I hacked in a guest, so I gotta like maybe I don't know if that's good or bad.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that'll scare people out.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you had Jesse on the show.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: And now we were easy.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was good.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: We could have we could have talked for hours.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just like so we need to wrap it up because you got stuff to do too.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to thank you for being willing to bring this topic that isn't always the topic people even want to talk about, let alone be on their own show, especially with the kind of consulting you do and the coaching you do and the type of clients you have.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Guys, every one of us are a human being and every one of us have relationships.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: We need to talk about it.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you nailed it, girl.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sticking it out all the way to the end.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know you got a whole lot of stuff going on.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: And in appreciation for the gift of time that you have given this episode, I want to offer you a free PDF of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: The link for that bad boy is down in the show notes.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hit it.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even have to give me your email address.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link in there.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: You just click that button, you can download the PDF.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you share it with somebody that you know who might feel stuck or be caught up in self-destructive behaviors, that would be the ultimate.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: You sharing that increases the likelihood that it's going to help one more person.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if it does help one more person, then you're contributing to me becoming the promise I am intended to be.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.