Latest / Why We Do What We Do / Unhoused pt. 1

Transcript

Unhoused pt. 1 · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do? Welcome
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do. I am your
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: thinking of others host Abraham, and I'm your setting up
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Shelter's host Shane. We are a psychology podcast to talk
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: about all of the things that humans and non human
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: animals do, and sometimes we talk about these situations they
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: find themselves in that they are less than ideal. I
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: guess yeah, that's a way to put it. So today
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: we are talking about homelessness, or the preferred term or
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the more current term houselessness, when we'll unpack what that is,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and basically, just as this is the experience that somebody
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: might have where they do not have a consistent or
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: safe place to shelter consistently throughout the days, weeks, years
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: that they are living on this planet. Yes, yeah, I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: think this is one that it has a no small
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: amount of political charge to it because it will show
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: up in many political discussions about what should we do
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: about this population of people that are unemployed and unhoused
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and living on the streets and play in view of
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: all these other citizens who are housed, and the different
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: approaches that people have to try and to mitigate this
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: system and I think it's worth remembering that there are
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: people here that are not just a problem, but are
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: human beings, real human beings who were born and were
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: children and who grew up and who became adults, and
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: through whatever circumstance or another, they ended up without a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: roof over their head and what that means for them
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and what we can think about in terms of what
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: we can do about that. But yeah, it's I think
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: it's important to just to talk about these things.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, today is going to be primarily
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: a myth busting episode, so we get to go into
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: dispelling some myths about houselessness and what that looks like.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: And so hopefully by listening to this, this will give
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: you information or arm you with information about what houses
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: this means, and how people like how systems operate that
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: ultimately affect these folks that are that are to end
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: up in these places, that are these these hardships that
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: they're never planned for.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: As we're starting this discussion, I would just like to
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: say welcome to all of you for being here. If
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: this is your first time here, then welcome. I hope
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: that you enjoy what you hear today and if you're returning.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming back. We are happy to have you
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: around either way. If you haven't already taken the plunge
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: into supporting us and you feel like you would like
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to do that thing, there are a variety of ways
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: you can do so. You can join us on Patreon,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: leave us a rating and review, pick up some merch
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: from our merch store. You can tell a friend. That's
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the probably the most common way that podcasts actually make
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: it out into the world.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: That's true, but.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I'll talk more about those at the end of this discussion.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: It is, however, important to this discussion. It is March
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: twenty sixth. Actually that's not important to this discussion, but
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: we are going to celebrate the fact that because it
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: is March twenty sixth, Happy American Red Cross Giving Day.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Very supportive of that.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's also a good hair Day.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Oh that means no Abraham Day.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean no, I think they'll they'll don't They'll
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: short yourself on that. They'll do that.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: It is Legal Assistance Day.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also Little Red Wagon Day.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, is that like a Citizen Kane reference? Or oh
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: maybe that was a sled I forget.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I think that was a sled. But okay, maybe it's
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a radio flyer reference. There you go somewhere where there's
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: a wagon that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: A red wagon. It is Live, long and prosper day,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: apropriate for our topic.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: There we go. Yeah, if you know how to do
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: the hair thing, yeah, the star trek thing. It's make
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: up your own holiday day, which you know every time
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: we do this it feels like that's what they're doing. Yeah.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Also that one feels like I made up holiday.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody made it up.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Although what holidays weren't made up?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, everything's made up. National Nougat Day, delicious,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: oh delicious. It is also Manatee Appreciation Day, a love
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: those wonderful gentle sea cows. It is purple Day, yes,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: yes it is. It's also Solitude Day.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, also appropriate for our topic. Not in any other
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: way though. Spinach Day. I love spinach personally.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: But it is great. I wish more people enjoyed it
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: like we do. It is wear a hat day. Hey,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: look at me, Look.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I wear an hat.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I'm celebrating.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: But that seems to be in conflict with Good Hair Day,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: although again maybe for me, that is also good hair Day.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: As we're Hat Day.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on what your
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: preference is.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: We're almost to the month of April, and so for
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: those of you who are in the know, you know,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: but we're not currently in the month of April, and
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: yet we should celebrate that. It is Autism Acceptance Week.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: So happy, Yes, Autism Acceptance Week. We see you, autistic people.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: We love you very much, Yes we do.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: It is also International Face Syndrome Awareness face spelled phace.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: It is National cleaning Week. Sure that sounds great.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's also National Green Week.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Shouldn't that have been last week for Saint Patrick's Day?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like it should have been.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: But you know, missed opportunities.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Okay. It is National Physicians Week. It is an important job.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Yes. It is National Secondhand Shopping Week. Also, you know,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: maybe we should do better with choosing places that are
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: actually good secondhand shopping and not places like Goodwill that
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: overprice everything and make it unaffordable to a secondhand shop.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Ooh ooh, shots fired.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Hey, I'm here for it. Give ready, I'm lit up
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: for this episode?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Fair enough. It is National Tsunami Awareness Week.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Yes it is. It is also tick Bite Prevention week.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: M that is very important. Yes, bad diseases. Yeah, it
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: is the week of solidarity with people struggling against racism
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and racial discrimination. Oh said the trigger words.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's the Oh yeah, our government is coming after us.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: There's somebody's gonna kick your door down.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they're watching us because we said don't be
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: racist or discriminate against people on the basis of race,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Like how dare you?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we said all the words that are not allowed
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: to we're not allowed to say in research anymore.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can say that you are racist and that
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: is acceptable, but struggling against racism not acceptable.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, according to the current administration.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, Hey, there's a quote here that looks like
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a quote you might want to read.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's yes. So as we we're kind of
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: exploring different topics. This is a topic that's come up
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: for me more recently just thinking about it, and there's
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: a really great quote that I think is a good
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: place to start for this. Now I'll just go ahead
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and say the quote. The quote is you can spend
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: money on new housing for poor people and the homeless,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: or you can spend it on a football stadium or
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: a golf course. End quote, and that is from Jello
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Biaf for the singer of the Dead Kennedy's, an eighties
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: hardcore punk band. I think that that illustrates, not necessarily
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: the binary nature of politics and how people tend to
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: allocate their money and budgets and whatnot. But I do
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: think that it is it gets to the core issue
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  Speaker 2: of we do have the resources, we do have the money,
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  Speaker 2: we do have the space to be able to support
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: unhoused folks, and in many situations we actively choose not to,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: and we actively choose not to for lots of reasons.
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  Speaker 2: We choose to build stadiums or golf courses that take
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: up way more space than they need to and way
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: more resources than they need to, and folks that are
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: living on the street and really struggling. So I think
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: that's kind of a good disc of what the concern is,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: at least in the United States.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I like that. I like that it's a good, good find.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: As a quote, I thought, so, yeah, it feels like
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: a deep cut, but knowing you, that's probably was almost
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: on the tip of your tongue.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Jello just has a lot, He's got a lot to
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: say about a lot of things. I feel like you
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: just kind of hit the nail on the head with
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: That's great, really good find. Yeah, okay, jumping into this then,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: as we said, we're going to be discussing homelessness and
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of conditions around this, and as you said,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of myth busting, which is to say, not
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: that there's not homelessness, but there are a lot of
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: misled ideas about homelessness. And so we want to start
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: by noting something at the top of this discussion. The
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: original topic was aimed at discussing homelessness. We're going to
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: use the term people say like homeless is a really
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: common old school term. Instead, we're going to say unhoused
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: throughout this episode, and we'll get to that in a moment.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: But you're gonna hear us say unhoused and maybe be
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: a little confused if that's not a word that's been
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: showing up a lot for you with respect to this
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: topic just yet. But now giving you some warning that
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: on hows does sort of the more current preferred nomenclature
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: for people who are experiencing homelessness is the old term
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: that people knew.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Right, And there are many, many, many, many many myths
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: about the unhoused population, and we think it's worth the
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: spelling as many as possible. And so unfortunately, this group
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: of people, this population is often characterized as an invisible population.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And ultimately, and more problematically, I guess, unhoused folks are
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: often the target of unjust ridicule, abuse, problematic legal issues,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: and like legal engagement, there's lots of concerns that come
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: up with this particular population. They're often a target that
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: really kind of gets the end of the stick in
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of situations.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, so let's talk about why the term unhoused has
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: become the preferred term. And it's again, a lot of
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: times people the sort of language treadmill as we as
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: terms evolve, as they change, and they get frustrated because
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: they have to change their behavior, and a lot of
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: times they're like, oh, it's just being PC. And I
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: would say that the vast majority of the time, at
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: least when we've discussed this, at least a good chunk
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: if not, the primary motivation to change these terms is
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: because they're not accurate, they don't really help capture, or
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: they maybe present a misleading view of the issue at hand,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and it's like it's being the term being used, is
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: almost being used as a slur and not to actually
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: communicate some piece of information that accurately describes this. So
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: then we sort of think, you know, we've been saying
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: this for a long time, but it feels like that
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't account for this or this or this or this
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: thing that we're observing. Let's try a different term that's
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: a bit more precise, a bit more accurate in capturing it.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and define these terms to help
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: understand why we would why this shift has been proposed.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: We didn't propose it, but I think I'm open to
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: this suggestion because I'm open to learning and changing my
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: behavior and evolving as we learn things and think through things.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: A little bit more thinking is good in my opinion.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Do it?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, more people should do it.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: More people should do it. Were people who are listening
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: to a podcast, these are thinking people already. You wouldn't
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: go to a podcast if you are not a thinking person.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: But for those of you in your life that those
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: of you hearing this, you know some people who thinking
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: is tough for them. Thinking is to them what pole
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: vaulting is to me. It's like basically a mystery. I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: can't do it, and other people see thoughts oppen and
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: they're like, man, how do you do it? Actually, they
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: can't even get that far. They're just like, h yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: And the people that usually do that are the people
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: that put together ads.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: All right, I did a several minute long segue on
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: the fact that we were going to describe terms and
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: instead we played advertisements. So, uh, whoops. But'll make it. Yeah,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I will. I will define the first term, and then
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I'll turn it over to you since I've been talking
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: and rambling for so long. All right, homelessness. This describes
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: people living unsheltered on sidewalks, in tents, camps, cars, or RV's.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: By definition, a homeless homelessness not a homelessness. But homelessness
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: means quote having no home or permanent place of residence
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: end quote, right.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: And so then the term houselessness emphasizes the distinction between
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: house and home. There's there's something about people might not
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: have shelter, but they may find themselves at home in
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: a community with a group of people, and being without
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: shelter does not necessarily mean a person is without home.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: So sometimes they might enjoy traveling, they might be more transient.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: In some situations, they may decide to live in an
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: RV and move from place to place to place, and
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily mean that they are homeless. They might
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: have a community that they engage with, a camp that
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: they engage with. As a matter of fact, right now,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I'm reading Doctor Sleep by Stephen King, and some of
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: the characters in it are part of like a traveling community,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and they discuss how they are part like they feel
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: at home with each other, their community, their shared community
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: is very homey to them. But they don't live in
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: any They have no houses. They're all in vehicles or
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: tents or camping grounds and stuff like that. So I
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: do think that it is important to know houselessness does
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: not necessarily mean people are without community in the kind
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: of the colloquial sense of what home is.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: That's a great point. Yeah, you look at those people
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: who made the decision late in life that they're like,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I'm going to sell my home most of my worldly possessions,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: go live in an RV and travel the Americas or
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: europar Asia wherever they are. Then we wouldn't look at
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: them and say like, oh, those are homeless people, particularly
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: in the way that people have historically used homelessness to
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: refer to those people who are living in camps and
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: on the side of the you know, under bridges or
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: wherever they might find shelter for themselves. That RV is
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: where they call home and they chose that specifically because
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: they wanted to have that lifestyle. Or people I've heard
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: recently who like live on cruise ships, like they don't
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: own that ship, you know, and it's not a fixture
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: that is locked to the ground. But we don't say
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that they are homeless people, So it mischaracterizes what the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: circumstance is. So when we're talking about a home, then
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: we're talking about the place that people choose to live,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and that includes the personal community. It is contextual. It
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: may include critical features like loved ones, pets, important valuables, heirlooms, traditions, rituals, religions,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: like there's all kinds of things that they have made
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: that space, that place, that location, that community there when
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: they go out into the world and then they're done
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: doing their activities and they say I'm going home, they're
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: returning to that whatever that might be right, and that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: could be their their cabin on a cruise ship or
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: their RV or there might be some some people who
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: choose to live in tents out in the woods because
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: they just want to be sort of off the grid
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: and out in nature, right, And that's a thing that
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: they chose to do, and that could be okay too.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Or they might choose to live in like a community
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: where they've got like cabins and stuff, but they're kind
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: of like out, you know, off the beaten path, if
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you will, right, and sort of off the grid anyway.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: The home used in this term is referring to like
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: where do you return to that is your secure place
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: where you've built your community and your shelter.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Right. An important term in all of this, too, is
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the term housing insecurity, and that describes circumstances where people
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: may experience additional stressors related to potential houses. This and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: this can include extremely complex factors like financial strain, domestic violence,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: substance abuse or substance use, a lack of affordable housing,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: natural disasters. There's lots of situations that can happen that
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: can make housing insecurity more rampant. So as an example,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: the wildfires just that just ravage LA. There's a lot
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: of situations now where there are folks that maybe have
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: a shelter, have roofs over their head, but they're experiencing
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: housing insecurity because of this very specific natural disaster that
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: has put their status of having a home, or having
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: a house at least or having their own shelter a
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: little bit more up in the air.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Great, not great for them, But I think important
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to have that clear distinction here of what housing insecurity means.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: So hopefully we've more or less given enough reason as
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: to why we would want to choose different terms to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: be more precise here. But you know, I think people
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: do hear this and ask, like, why does it matter
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: what I call this? And I think, as I said,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: for one thing, it is imprecise. You're communicating one thing
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: colloquially to an audience who hears it and maybe knows
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: what you mean. But again, you could be using it
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to describe a variety of circumstances and maybe even doing
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: so derogatory early, possibly on purpose. But again it's thinking
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: about both like how effectively community we communicate these things
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: to others, as well as the experience of the unhoused person,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: which can really vary greatly we'll see shortly, because as
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: we said, like it's it's different when someone has chosen
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: that situation and they're like they have their home set
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: up there versus people who are more facing housing and security.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Right so, currently, the preferred phrase and description, like we've
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: said before, is either unhoused person or person experiencing houselessness.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: We have moved away from homelessness, and we've certainly moved
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: away from terms like hobo. We have gotten to a
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: place where we are far more i think, accurate with
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: what is going on, and these terms unhoused or person
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: experiencing houselessness allows for some generalization to capture the wide
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: variety of experiences that people have, not.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: That we really need to dive into every slur, slang,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: or derogatory term used to describe someone who is unhoused.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: But I was curious where hobo came from because it
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: does sound like, I don't know, it sounds like it's
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: almost a word, you know, like it's like a half
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: a word or a shortened word, or a portmanteau or something. Unfortunately,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: there is no clear origin story for the word hobo.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: There is some that have suggested it comes from ho boy,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: referring to people who are sort of migrant workers who
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: would travel around with a hoe or a farming tool,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: just looking for like a place where they could shelter
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and get some worked and payment for their shelter. For
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: a while, some referred to those who were returning from
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the Civil War who were homeward bound or ho bo. Yeah,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: but at the time they were like you might see
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: them in a state where they were traveling and it
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: was difficult to travel far distances and would look unhoused
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: for a while. There was a congenial greeting hello boy,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that changed to low boy and lobo, and then finally hobo.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: It was one suggestion mm hm as well there and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: then there's another one saying that it was a word
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: from the word hoosier, meaning a rustic individual, a frontiersman,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: and then even some who suggest it comes from the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Latin homo bonus meaning good man, host, the most handsome.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So slang is so funny, slang, like the terms like
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: that is so funny, where like it's so hard to
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: pin down where it originates. But you know, I think
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I think it's also important though that like we don't
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: use that term anymore. Yeah, let me rephrase that we
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: don't use that term in describing people or folks. But
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: this term will come up later in our interesting tid
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: points that we have that we always put in here,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: because the term hoboglyphs comes up as part of the
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: community at large, so we'll we'll talk about that later.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Oh good, Yeah, I learned about those those very interesting
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, So to understand this a little further,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: we want to paint a picture of some current statistics
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: about houselessness, specifically in the United States. That's where we are,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: so easy for us to feel connected to those numbers,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: and most of our listeners are in the United States
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: as well, although to be fair, I think most, if
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: not all countries experience have some people, some citizens who
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: experience this in one form or another. So anyway, we're
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: going to be talking about the United States for this part.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, So, as of January twenty twenty three, the US
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: has a record high of reported housesness, with roughly six
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty three thousand people experiencing housesness in some way,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: shape or form. And just so everybody has context too,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: this is a twelve point one percent increase from twenty
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: twenty two, So this is a huge increase over time,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: and it's a lot of people that are experiencing this.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: That is more than the entire population of the state
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: of Wyoming. Yes, yes, it is like if every single
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: human in Wyoming lived without a home and then you
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: bust in one hundred thousand more, right, that's how many
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: people that is. That is an alarmingly huge number.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is significantly larger than the population of the
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: city I live in. Like that that is an urban area. Like,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of people.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an astounding number.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Okay. Between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty three, the number
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: of people entering emergency shelters due to houselessness also increased
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: by twenty three percent, so even I mean, that's a
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: huge jump. And of course COVID nineteen did play a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: huge role in this. Besides people losing gainful employment, some
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: folks experienced higher rates of domestic violence. That was definitely
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: a thing that started showing up. It's so easy to
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: forget I think talking about this, but that was on
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the news for a while. During lockdown. People couldn't leave
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: their houses, and all of a sudden, domestic violence rates
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: were through the roof. They just needed out somewhere, but
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: it was really hard to find places to go. In addition,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: substance abuse saw an uptick during the lockdowns, which may
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: have contributed to loss of income or led to housing
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and security and the loss of living situations. Not in
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: all cases, but like that was a contributing variable.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's really important to remember that
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: COVID nineteen was a lot harder on some folks than
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: other folks. Like, so, you know, in some spaces, like
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: people were able to work remotely and didn't experience financial hardships,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: but a lot of people did not have that experience.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, I do think it's just an important
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: reminder how that had such far reaching impacts beyond just
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: people getting sick.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, could have been dealt with in three weeks if
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: we'd had some competent leadership in the United States and
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: around the world, but instead dragged on for years and
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: is now endemic. Good job of humans, yep ya.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Another important point here, the number one cause of houseseness
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: is directly related to renter household prices. So this is
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: gonna be one of those myth busting things. People think
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: that people are unemployed, people think that folks that are
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: houses are have mental health issues or whatever it might be.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: The number one cause is related to renter household prices.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: It is reported that renters are paying more than fifty
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: percent of their income on rent, which rose over twelve
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: point six percent from twenty fifteen to twenty twenty two,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: while minimum wage or living wages didn't really change at all.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: So the cost of having a space has gone up
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: significantly and made it more difficult to maintain those types
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: of spaces. Yeah.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I think people hear about like how inflation happens and
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: what works like over time and think that this is
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: how it has always been. It has not always been
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: this way, and it might be worth at some point
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: digging into like how the shift in things like rent
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and income and a lot of people who are like, well,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: we just can't keep raising the minimum wage, and I'm like,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, what are our options here?
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean they could, like landlords could
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: stop raising rent and that would have a significant impact
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: on this.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: It would, it would very much. So, And yeah, there's
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: a lot to unpack in that space. So probably a
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: discussion that we should have down the road, either either
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: on a mini or a full length. Probably I think
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: a full length because there's there's a lot to umpact there.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: But yeah, speaking of things that are priced too high,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: here's an ad for something. Okay, we are back, let's
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: talk about let's talk about more things. I mean just
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: we're kind of in the statistics portion when the numbers
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: section here, which is fun, you know, I mean probably
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: less so for some people.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I think it's important. It's context.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It's context context. That's that's a really important thing. Yeah, Okay.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Demographics that tend to experience houselessness most often, at least
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: in the United States include minority groups. Ooh, flagged again.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Ah here it is here.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: It is government watch list. So that includes Native Hawaiian
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and Pacific Islanders, people who are black, Hispanic and Asian groups.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: So I think there are people who hear that and
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: they want to try and connect that that is something
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that is endemic to that group of people. It's like
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: it has to do with their race. That's why they're
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: experiencing homelessness. And like, if that were true, then I
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: think what we should expect, just logically, scientifically, if you will,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: is that there would be fewer no instances or someone
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: who did have that race could be successful, because if
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: it was part of the race, how could they be right, Like,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: it seems like that would be a prohibiting factor. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: there absolutely are people who are black or Native Hawaiian
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: or Pacific Islander or Asian who are very successful, so
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: that can't possibly be it. So why would that particular
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: group end up more in the situation of being unhoused
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: than other groups such as people, for instance, who are white.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Right, And this is where the systemic racism discussion comes up, Right, So,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: there are plenty of studies and plenty of examples where renters,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: where realtors refuse to sell homes to people of color.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: There are plenty of situations where renters or landlords refuse
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: to rent out spaces to folks that are different demographic
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: than them. And so there is a component where just
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: finding a home that is going to accept you for
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: who you are, like, despite the fact there are laws
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: anti discrimination laws inside of this, which, by the way,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: the current administration is actively dismantling, right, you know and
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: making that harder. Like it's already a difficult time for
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: somebody to apply to get a home, to access a
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: rented space. And so this is one of those spaces
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: where historically we have found that systemic racism plays a
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: large role in perpetuating housesiness for folks, specifically of people
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: of color.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: That speaks to the fact that the issue here seems
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to be with how the people who have the most
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: power control the resources of the people who have less
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: right and that shows up in this way as being
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: that there is systematic discrimination that is built into people's
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: both in the attitudes as well as these systems with
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: that like loan money to people and find housing for
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: people and that sort of thing. Right, Yeah, And I
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: think that, like, that's not at all to discount the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: fact that there are plenty of people who are white
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: who also struggle and who will also end up unhoused,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: who face these these situations. And it's not in any
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: way that we're saying that they don't deserve help just
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: because they're white. What we're saying is that there is
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: a process that seems to exist embedded within the culture
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: and the systems at large around the world and definitely
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: in the United States, that makes it so that people
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: who are have more melanin in their skin for one
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: reason or another, or just don't look like your sort
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: of white euro person, are more likely to end up
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: in situations where they're unhoused than people who are not
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: in that situation. I think it's very important to say
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: that all people deserve, in my opinion, deserve help, They
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: deserve support, they deserve shelter, and we should also make
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: it so we're not systematically making it most very difficult
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: for specific groups of people because of how they look.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Right, you nailed it, You nailed it. Another point that
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I think is really important here is that there was
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: a seven to twelve percent increase in veterans veterans veterans
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: in chronically unhoused individuals from twenty twenty two to today.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: So whenever you have a politician that talks about how
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: much they care about veterans, I think it's really important
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: to ask them what they're doing about houselessness because such
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: a large portion of the houses population does involve veterans.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: These are people who were employed by the US military,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: many of them who went to combat, who then returned
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to the cut true that they that sent them into
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: combat indo harm's way, and that they're they're now unhoused
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like that's wild, like right? I mean, I could quite
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: easily make the argument that no one should ever be
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: in house who doesn't want to be, but let alone
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: people who like actually specifically worked for the government of
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: this country and doing their dirty work for them. Right,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: That seems just absolutely asinine and backwards to me. So,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the states with the highest per capita houselessness rate in
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: the United States is California, Oregon, New York, Hawaii, and Vermont.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Two of those also the most populous states. So right,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: seems like there seems there's at least something having to
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: do probably with density of population.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think every every one of those states
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: has like some unique factors too, right, So, like California
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: and New York have, and especially in like the cities,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the major cities, you've got higher cost of living. Hawaii
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: in particular is a very interesting place. And you know,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I would not do it to try to unpack the
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: history and colonization and stuff that happened in Hawaii and
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: all the things that are going on there, but it's
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: one of those things where, like, I think it's important
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: to say that each one of these states has unique
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: factors that contribute to their unique houses as populations. Like,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: we can't just assume that a blanket rule of oh,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: all these factors contribute houses in these places. Is the same, Like,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: everyone has just unique demographics and unique circumstances.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the reason is in Hawaii or in California is
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: not the same reason it's in Hawaii is not the
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: same reason that it's going on in New York. And
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I do think people hear this in points of the
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: fact that those are traditionally blue states. And I think
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: that you're you're not wrong again a lot, at least
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: a couple of these are the most densely populated states
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: where and I do think there are aspects of that
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: that lends itself to very very high cost of living,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: right because of the urban area where all space is
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: then priced at a premium, and like there's no shortage
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: of people who will pay that premium to the exclusion
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: of people who can't. Right. But in addition to that,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I know that also there are efforts taken by some
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Red states to relocate unhoused people to Blue states that
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: specifically set up shelters and take people in or like
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: try and set up programs to help them. So, like,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: it is probably attractive to some people who are unhoused
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: to go to places that are more friendly to unhoused
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: people to try and make their lives more supportive than
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: places that are like actively trying to get rid of
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: them and treat them as if they don't deserve to live, right, So,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: like there's probably some condition to think about that there.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Actually, you know what, I'm so glad that you said that,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: because I have a specific example of this. Okay, So
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: states with greater social programs that are designed to help
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: support folks in unhouse situations are likely going to have
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: a higher population because, like you said, they are friendlier.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: In Florida, the city that I live in is Daytona Beach, Florida,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: and Daytona Beach, Florida is known for being a very
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: touristy place, and so every year we have events. We
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: have multiple events. Every year. We have the Daytona five hundred,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: We have the I think that's the Coke four hundred
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: or something like that. During during the summer, we have
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Bike Week, we have race Week. We have all these
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: things that happen during the year. And the city wants
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: the town to be very quote unquote presentable. And one
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: of the undesirable, unpresentable things that people will note is
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: the amount of unhoused people in the town. So what
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: they will do is they will they have a specific budget,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: and they have a specific amount of money that they
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: allocate to buying bus tickets and travel fair to bust
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: people out of the city during these.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Events, the unhoused people.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: The unhoused people, yes, just to be clear, So they
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: will pay for tickets to get them out of the city.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: They will bust them to cities where there are more resources.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: They might bust them out to Orlando or Jacksonville, which
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: you know, when you look at the map of how
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: red Florida is, those are some blue spots where there
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: are also more resources and more supports in those places.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: So not only will they bust them out of the
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: city for images, for like for like you know, for optics,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: they will also bust them to places where there are
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: more resources.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is not like a temporarily go to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: town until this event is over. This is like, this
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: is our chance to get them out of town.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Then that's a one way ticket.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's a one way ticket. And then if
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: they make it back, they make it back because that's
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: this is where their whole their community is, right but right, Yeah,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: that happens during every single event.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that exactly highlights that that point the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: fact that like just because they're blue states, I think
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: it is not causing homelessness. I think it attracts people
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: who need support because as you said, they have social programs.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: There are unique factors there. So I don't think that
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: you can call blue state, you know, like you can't
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: blame you can't say that that's the causal factor.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, And obviously I think not a
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: lot of people are like migrating who are homeless, are
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: migrating to Hawaii to like have a set up place.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: But that's again why Hawaii has a very unique situation
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: going up going on on there where it's it's worth
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: understanding just the what has happened there with people coming
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: in and establishing like large plantations and subjugating people to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: very ridiculous work conditions. And there's a huge history in
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Hawaii that that also needs to be unpacked. That's really
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: important because that that population has gone through a lot, yes,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: and is still they still do not I think, have
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the kind of autonomy that the deserver would like to have.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: So anyway, we should really bust some myths. One myth
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: is that podcasts can function without ads. At least we can't.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back. I actually don't know if anyone
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: thinks that's a myth.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yet.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Those are some podcasts that have very few ads, but yeah,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: that's true, but most of the true ads.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So on that note, let's talk about some actual myths,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: not the ad myth.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: And I think this is going to be I think
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: my favorite section because I think that there are a
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: lot of misconceptions about unhoused folks, and I think that
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: it's really important to kind of pin down, you know,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: exactly what's true and what's not true, and maybe give
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: you a little bit more nuanced discussion around this.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: So we love busting a myth here ooh we're so
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: we're oh.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Myth busting is the best to quote Ghostbusters bust It
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: makes me feel good, you.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Know, It's like it's like we did this as many
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: on why I love people, love pop watching people pop.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Zits and myths are kind of like the ZiT popping
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: used to bust it open. That's what I'm festering, little
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: little pustual.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Or a bust we get, yeah, we get rid of
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: the puss of false information. So myth number one, people
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: who are on house should just get a job. I've
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: heard people say this plenty of times. Oh well I
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: was just get a job.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Well oh man, yeah, I've heard this recently.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: In fact, that's I hear that often. And so here's
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: the truth. Okay, as many as forty to sixty percent
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: of unhouse people are currently employed, So more than half
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: of folks that are unhoused are employed. They may be
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: in their current state due to other factors. They might
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: there might be natural disasters, familial displute disputes, or going
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: back to the landlord issue, a lack of affordable housing. Additionally,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: the cost of living and a lack of a living
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: wage making tribute to home loss not just being unhoused,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: but like actually losing your space to live. And so
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: they may be working, and they may have a wage
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: they're working on, and they may be going to work
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: every single day, and they may actually be on housed.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: You may be working with people at your place of
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: employment that are currently unhoused that you would never know
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: because of how they present themselves, take care of themselves,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: show up for work, but they may be unhoused.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: There is also a cycle here of that I think
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: we've addressed at some point before. If for example, they
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: find themselves unhoused because they lost employment. Getting a new
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: job often requires a permanent address, right, And if they
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: don't have an address that they can give, then they
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: can't get a job. And if they can't get a job,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: they can't get an address, right. And so there's like
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: they need one to get the other and they have neither, right,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: and then they're treated as if they're that's their fault
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: and the other like logical piece or illogical piece of
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: this that I always hear in people with like why
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: don't they're like they're sitting there all day, Why don't
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: they just go get a job. And I'm like, so,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: what you're saying is you think it is so lucrative
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: and so easy for them to sit on a corner
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: asking for donations that they'd rather do that than go
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: to a place where they have a guaranteed income. That's
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: what you're supposing is their situation.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Right now, right, That's what that's your assumption.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, no offense, but that's stupid, Like there
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: is no condition under which someone is like I could
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: be gainfully employed, but instead I'm gonna I'm gonna gamble,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna take my risk and see what happens with
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: standing on the street corner and see if I can
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: make enough money to like pay the rents that way,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: like come on, like think again. Thinking is good, Try
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: it more often, do better with that, all right, Myth
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: number two, people choose to be unhoused. We have another
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: similar myth like this, that is being unhoused as a choice.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: But that's the myth that people choose this, And actually,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: to be fair, there is anuggative truth here. Some people
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: that choose to be unhoused. There are people who choose
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: to be unhoused or to avoid using shelters. That does happen,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: But there are countless variables that lead to being unhoused
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: beyond this being a choice that for the vast majority
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: of people who were in this situation, this was not
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: something that they chose. There was risky choices, untreated mental
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: health conditions, substance abuse disorders, family circumstances. We mentioned before
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: domestic abuse a lot of times. God, we need to
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: just do one on domestic abuse. Yeah, let's start with
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: the fact that the overwhelming majority of domestic abuse victims
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: are in fact women. It's not always that, but it
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: is the majority. Okay, So starting with that. A lot
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: of times, historically in the United States and in many
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: parts of the world, and still to this day in
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: many parts of the world, women are not really expected
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: to work to earn an income, to be independent at all.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: So what has happened is there are still conditions under
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: which women are sort of taught or raised, or they've
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: been led to believe that their job is to be
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: in the home taking care of that home, and that
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: they're not supposed to be independent. They're not supposed to
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: have their own income, they're not supposed to have a job.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: And so what happens is abusers actually lean on this,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: they use it because then they can have that person
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: be captive where they don't have a means of escape.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: And if they're abusive, then those people who are being
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: abused they can't leave like they couldn't. They don't have money,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: they don't have a job, they don't have anywhere else
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that they can go, right, and so their only choice
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: them and is either stay and potentially die by the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: hand of this person, or risk it out on the streets.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And some of them make that choice. And I do
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: not think that we could fault them for that. So
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: you could call that a choice, but I'd hardly say that,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Like if one circumstance is death or serious injury or
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: continued like pain and suffering, and the other one is
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: like maybe you'll be okay, that's not really a choice,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: you know. It's like and I sort of tell people
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: they've asked me about some of the choices, Like I
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: think I've said on here, I choose not to drink alcohol,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people they're like, man, how do
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: you do that? And I'm like, well, to me, it's
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: not a choice. I don't look at a bot of
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: alcohol and think like, hm, should I drink that? And
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll liken it to most people, like they're
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: the resistance to black tar heroin. Most people don't wake
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: up them in the morning at least that I'm aware of,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: and go like, I got to really resist doing the
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: black Tar heroin today, Like, no, that does not enter
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: your realm of options for the day. And so like
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: when your choice is between something that is not an
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: option and something that is, then like that's not a choice,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Like you just have to do the thing. So anyway,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I think worth pointing out, like when people argue, they're like, oh,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you have a choice. I'm like, I mean, no, you don't,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: not really right.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, you know, we talk about familial issues
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: as well, and what you might see is that there
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: is a large trans population in the unhoused. There's an
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: intersection of trans in unhoused populations or the LGBTQ community
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: in general because of family issues, family disagreements, and abuses
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: in the home. So it's a lot of times people
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: choose to be un housed because that may actually be
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: safer than being with their family, being with a loved
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: one or a partner, abusive partner or something like that.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: So I think it's just really important to note that, like, yes,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: while they might quote unquote choose the choices kind of
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: like do I put my hand in the shark's mouth
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: or do I avoid the ocean altogether?
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, you know something that's seems like
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: it falls into both myth one and two. They'll like
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: get a job and choosing This also is thinking about
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: people with disabilities. A lot of jobs, it can be
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: difficult to find employment that has good accessibility for certain
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: disabilities for a lot of people, Like there is most
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: places are required to have some kind of accessibility for
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: people who like, for example, are in a wheelchair, or
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: who are blind or who are deaf. But and I
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: do think that for the most part, those efforts have
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: been really really good for those people, like a lot
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: of spaces are more accessible to them, right, but it's
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: still limited and very limited, so that like it is
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: better than it was, but it is not ubiquitous. So
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: people who do have some kind of disability, physical or
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: mental are much more likely to struggle to find employment
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: even when they are really trying to. And then they
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: again they can't afford to live without having some sort
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: of job. And men, we should talk about unemployment because
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: is like the current system as it's set up in
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the United States really incentivizes not being gainfully employed.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it is.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: It is just people who again are not thinking through
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the policies that they put in place, who are essentially
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: forcing people to live on disability or live on unemployment
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: or something because otherwise it's worse for them to try
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and get a job in those situations, and without digging
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: into it too much, suffice it to say, they're often
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: limited by how much they can make and continue receiving
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: support even if how much they make is like way
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: below poverty.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Right, right, absolutely, all right, So mith three unhoused people
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: are dangerous, violent, and or they are criminals. So here's
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: the thing. There's actually no evidence that unhoused folks are
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: more or less dangerous than housed folks. Right, There's actually
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: nothing that says being unhoused immediately makes you more dangerous.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: That is not the that is not the causal factor.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: The exception in this instance is the legality of camping,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: which increases rates of quote unquote criminal behavior due to trespassing.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: So a lot of unhoused folks will have charges of trespassing,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: which you know, in turn by definition would make them
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: a criminal per se, but they're not. That's not a
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: violent crime. Additionally, it is more likely that an unhoused
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: person would be the victim of a violent crime and
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: not the perpetrator. What we're finding is more and more
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: often somebody who's on house is more likely to be harmed,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: more likely to be the target of abuse, target of
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: some type of crime, not the actual criminal, not the perpetrator,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: not the aggressor. In most cases.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Well, let's take for example, the fact that, like if
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: you hear about true crime, how often in any true
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: crime story was the person who committed the crime an
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: unhoused person. Rarely, rarely, very rarely it does happen, but
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: it is like so infrequently the case, right, and as
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: you said, far more oft and again we're thinking about
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: people who who might have substance abuse disorders, who are disabled,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: who might have mental health conditions. They are way, way,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: way more often the victims of crime. Yeah, like we
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: just don't even when we look at criminal activity, like
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the perpetrators of that are people who are it's not
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: people who are un housed, like it is people who
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: very clearly are right, many times it is people who
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: have a lot of privilege.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: And oftentimes, like when you have folks that are like active,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: like physical violence, like really extreme violence, they tend to
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: target folks that are unhoused and sex workers because it's
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: very unlikely that police forces will even investigate or bother
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: to investigate, because they'll say, oh, well, they're an invisible population.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: And just and another point here is you said that
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: like our laws in many ways treat their very existence
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: as a crime. Yes, and so like they're not doing
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: anything violent, they're not doing anything to harm anyone. But
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: one way that you can you can use. The important
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: stigma of you're a criminal is by treating that person's
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: existence as being a crime. That's very much what happens
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: in the United States with immigrants as well, is like
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: you are not born here, therefore you are a crime.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't even matter whether they went through the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: right channels, you know. And they're saying we're going to
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: expel all these violent criminals when the people's crime is
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: they couldn't reapply for their visa or their green card
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: because the government wouldn't let them. And then because that expired,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: well they happened to be here. They're now like being
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: arrested and being called criminals, and like you made them criminals.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: They did not actually do anything to harm anyone. They
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: did not steal anything, they did not break anything, They
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: did not do anything wrong other than live And so
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I think the laws and I mean we've seen this
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: on some shows, like if you look at certain TV
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: shows that go with cops and law enforcement, where they're like,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: we can pull them over for just about anything, we
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: can give them a ticket for just about it, like
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: we will find a thing. I'm like that I think
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: is a searing indictment of our system by saying that, like,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: we will make a crime out of you if we
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: want to, right, then that is a broken system that
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: we need to throw in the garbage, completely in the garbage.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Unfair and unjust.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, unfair, unjust ads All right, let's get to myth
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: number four here. So this one is that housing or
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: shelter for people who find themselves in that situation should
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: require specific criteria or contingencies, like being clean of drugs
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: or being sober drug testing. Okay, so fac to here,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: stable housing is actually more likely to occur when you
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: have the supports and services in place. Denying someone necessary
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: resources due to a substance abuse will likely perpet you
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: said condition. It's more likely to lead to health complications
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: and death as a result. And essentially, I mean just
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: to say that another way here in the case that
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't clear is that people are not like, well, I
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: guess I can't get a house. I may as well
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: start shooting up right. The situation is like they might
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: be in some kind of they might have some substance
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: abuse or disorder. I'd be willing to bet the overwhelming
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: majority of them or is alcohol. Although I could be wrong.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't actually look that up. But that is so
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: much easier to get a hold of and so much
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: cheaper than most of all other things. But I'd be
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: willing to bet most of the time it's alcohol. But anyway,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: it's not that like they can just stop and then
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: like go be in these houses and that like telling
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: them like, well just stop and then we'll give you
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: a home is just that now they're like, well, I
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: don't know how to stop, and so now they're in
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: a situation where they like can't get a home, even
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: though if they were to be able to get a home,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: then they could seek out the support that they needed
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: so that they could wean themselves off of whatever substance
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: abuse disorder they're in.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Right, this is one of those larger discussions too. And
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: again this is why I think this episode was so
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: complicated and why we're definitely going to do a part
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: two because in this context, in this situation, there is
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: this is a sober first context.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's like the policy.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the policy, and it's not a very good
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: policy because ultimately, like what you're doing is you're denying
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: people safety, food and shelter because they have gotten themselves
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: into a little bit of trouble right, and ultimately, like
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: my viewpoint is, and this is I don't think this
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: is a controversial one, but my viewpoint is, like, somebody
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be punished because they're struggling with a substance abuse
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: disorder like they shouldn't be They shouldn't have their resources,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: additional resources taken away. They shouldn't be forced to starve
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: because they are struggling in a situation. They should receive help,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: and this wrap round support is actually more likely to
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: solve that problem. A supportive environment that offers resources for
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: trauma and addiction and and counseling services and financial consultation
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: and job coaching and all those things are far more
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: likely to reduce or relieve houselessness for that person. If
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: somebody can get acted, they can get like a head start,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: they can get somebody to help balance the playing field
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: for them, and having those resources that allows them to
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: kind of get stable, to be able to take the
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: next step is far better than denying somebody a resource,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: a valuable resource, a valuable level of support. Denying them
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: based on the fact that they are having a current
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: struggle is completely unfair. It's inhumane, it's not compassionate, and
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: that's why this housing first types of initiatives are so
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: much better for the community at large well.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: And beyond it not being compassionate, it's not very effective, right,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: And so it's like it doesn't even solve the problem
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: it says it's trying to solve. And I think to
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: the other point here is I think one thing we
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: well will unpack more as this discussion continues to evolve,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: but it's very worth and important to I think acknowledge
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: that one thing you can walk away from this conversation
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: with is that houselessness is multi factored and layered and idiosyncratic,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: unique to that person, meaning that like, one solution probably
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: will not work for all people in this situation, Like
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: it really is best to treat this comprehensively and triage
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: it to the best of our ability. And so look
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: at like, is this a person who needs care for trauma?
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: If so, like that needs to be part of it.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: If not, then like that doesn't need to be part
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: of it, as as someone who is facing substance abuse disorders.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: If so, that does need to be part of it.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be held contingent on other things. But like
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: we can include that in part of what we're trying
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: to do, and there's like a variety of aspects of
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: this that's like just figure out what does that person need,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: because any initiative that's like this is the magic bullet
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: that will fit houselessness will guaranteed miss the mark because
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: people have different stuff going on for them when they
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: end up in this situation, and there's not like a
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: clear pipeline that leads from house to street, with the
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: maybe exception being that housing prices are definitely a pipeline
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: that that is like the largest fastest route to ending
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: up unhoused, and so like that would that by itself
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: would definitely help if like there was some way to
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: curb the the housing prices as an issue, but even
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: that comes with a variety of issues in terms of
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: like then maybe people stop getting into the business of
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: renting properties, which maybe is okay, I don't know, but
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: like there's there's a can of worms that opens any
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: way that you try and address this. But like there
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: is no one clear path that people end up on
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that that gets them here. So we can't just propose
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: one clear solution and expect it to fix everything. But
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: what we can do is we can acknowledge that, like
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: ruling out other solutions because we want to focus on
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: this one will definitely not work.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Right, And that's exactly everybody's circumstance is different most and well,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: and we're going to unpack some more myths in the
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: next episode too. But I think, you know, when we
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: start looking at this, you're right, there is no magic
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: bullet to solve this issue. I do think it's it's
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: contextually important. I do think it is uniquely individual. But
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day, what we
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: have found time time again, and we'll talk about solutions
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: as well in the next episode two. But I think
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: as a general rule, what we have found time and
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: time again for social issues, for social concerns, for these
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: see these types of things that come up often and
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: come up regularly. What we have found is that a
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: compassionate approach to like wrap round care and supportive interventions
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: and teaching all of those things tend to do a
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: better job at resolving these types of concerns, right. I mean,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: we see this with recidivism rates in prisons. Teaching people
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: active skills so they can enter the community and they
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: can go into this wrap round care is going to
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: be way better than just throwing them out outside of
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: the prison, being like, see you later. So we'll talk
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: about that. We could probably do a whole episode on
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: recidiviism rates too, and what that looks like. But but
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: my point is is that what we find most often
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: is that a supportive, nurturing environment is going to do
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: wonders for people if we can set that up. Now,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: what that looks like for everybody is going to be
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: different and unique, but it is important to note that
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: that tends to be the better option of the options
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: that exist.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Okay, so so far we have busted four myths.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: We have four more to go. We are already about
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the time that we normally are trying to wrap up
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: these episodes, and we've got to talk about potential solutions.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: We've got to talk about some studies. We've got to
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: recommend some books on this subject. We've got some interesting
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: tidbits and take home points which we like to sometimes
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: call tid points points, and so much to talk about
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: that I think it would be we would be remiss
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: to continue trying to finish this whole conversation in a
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: single episode, and instead, I think we'll split this into
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: a two parter, so we'll wrap it up there. We'll
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: come back with all the other stuff that we need
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: to tackle. Exciting so far that we've just got. I
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's such a rich area for discussion because
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: I think it is so much more nuanced than a
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: lot of people think that it is. And I think
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: it's always worth shining a light on humans, the real
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: humans who are out there, who we have sort of
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: left behind as a species, and not for really any
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: good reason in my mind. So anyway, welcome back to
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: it with more discussion about this next time. In the meantime,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: I think what we have to do is recommend some things,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: which is a fun little thing we add to the
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: end of every discussion, which for those of you who
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: are new you are learning about now and for those
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: of you who have been with us you know what's coming.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: But I think it's one of my favorite things to
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: talk about at the end. It's just a yeah, just
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: to recommend something fun. But first I should give credit
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: where credit is due. Thank you so much to my
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: team writing in fact checking from Shane and myself. Thank
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: you for your work on this discussion, and Shane, thank you.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, who's out there
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: doing the good work talking to it to everyone on
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: social media. And our audio engineer producer person is Justin
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: who does just such a such a good job. Otherwise,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: if you heard this without his handiwork on it, you
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: would immediately turn it off because it'd be like, what
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: is this mess?
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: He makes it so nice, he makes it so good,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: so nice you listen to it twice, maybe I'd be
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: impressed if you do let us know.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: In fact, you can let us know by reaching out
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: to us directly. You can tell us your thoughts on
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: houselessness or anything we've discussed here by emailing us directly
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. You can also tell us
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: if you listen to this twice, You can tell us
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: other thoughts about this or anything that you'd like to
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: talk about, or you can just say, hey, what's up,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: and we're all good with all of those things. You
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: can also leave us a rating and review wherever you
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: listen to podcasts like subscribe, definitely go out and tell
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: a friend about this great, new, awesome podcast that you
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: heard that they should definitely listen to as well. That'll
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: helps us out and then if you would really like
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: to take the plunge, you can head over to our
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Patreon and you will get access to kind of early episodes,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: ad free episodes, behind the scenes content, all kinds of
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: good stuff. And I will read your name as a
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: big thank you, so thank you to these people who
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: have already helped us so much and their generous contributions
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: being patron supporters of ours. And that is thanks to Mike,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: m Megan, Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian Ashley
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: and Kiara. Really appreciate you all so much.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Y'all are the best, just simply the best.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: Simply the best, all right, I think that is what
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: we have to say before we make our recommendations. Is
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: there anything that I am forgetting or that you would
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: like to add before we recommend some things?
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: No? Think I think we'll probably wrap up a lot
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: of that stuff next week because I've got I've still
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: got a lot of really strong opinions about this.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: We have opinions, we have thoughts, we have ads. That
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: was add transition music. This is recommendation transition music.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Recoda recommendations.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I'm recommending a board game that I got to learn
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: very recently. It's actually not one that I have but
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: probably will end up in my collection. It's called Heat
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Pedal to the Metal. This one might ring true for you, Shane.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: This is a racing game, and so you have these
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: little teeny tiny race cars on your board. And I
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: have played some racing games, I have seen some racing games.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I have read reviews about racing games. This is most
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: of them are kind of boring, or they feel like
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: they're a little anti climactic, or they just don't know
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: really how to handle it. This game is so exciting
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: and like at the end of the race, you really
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: feel it and you're like, man, I am like, like,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: who is going to win this? We're all like right
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: there unless someone not really far behind, which can happen.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: It happened to me when I spun out on the track.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: But they did such a good job designing this game,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: so it balances really well, like if you fall, but
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: like it self corrects so pretty much every turn, who
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: is like in first place kind of will alternate between
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: a few key players and it gives there sort of
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: the person who's in back. It's sort of the drift
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: or the slipstream bonus. So you like are in someone's
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: there behind them, then you can like scoot around use
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: that space to get around in front of them. But
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: you're sort of playing cards to move along the track.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: But where the when they really brilliantly came up with
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: this is how to navigate. This is when you're going
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: around turns. You can't just go around turns at like
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: max speed or you will go right off the track.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: And so when you go around turns, you kind of
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: have to slow down. You can like if you choose
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: to rush through it a little bit, then you can
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: spend heat from your engine essentially to sort of power
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: slide through that turn. But if you run out of
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: heat to spend, then you spin out. And so you're
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: sort of gambling a little bit with like how much
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: you're choosing to push it. But of course last leg
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: of the race, you're like putting as many cards down
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: as you possibly can to speak to and you're just
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: like burning all the heat in your engine. Your engines
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: just on fire the last round, like trying to get
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: to the finish line. And so this game, it's it's
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: so clever how they set it up to because it
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: comes with the base game. That's just sort of what
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you play, but it also has modules where you can
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: increase the complexity if you want to. You can add
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: like weather conditions that changes some of the rules. You
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: can add in like upgrades to your cars so your
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: cars can like do cooler stuff. And that has a
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: cool element where you draft, like you have to choose
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: an upgrade and then other people get to choose, and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: then like once they're gone, you lay out new upgrades
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: and choose and the other thing. It also comes with
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: four maps, and like most so four totally different boards.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: It's two boards that are double sided, so you have
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: four different maps you can race on, and like most games,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: you would have to pay extra to get those extra maps,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: so like they you get a lot of bang for
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: your buck with this game. And I'm like for people
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: who I think sit down and play a lot of
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: like the really heavy strategy games, and a lot of
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: times you'll see people playing and they're like kind of
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: looking at the board and they're really quiet. There's not
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: a lot going on, and you're like, cool, looks like fun.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: This is not that. This is like the super interactive.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: People are like, oh, I made it, and like you're
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: you're you're doing all kinds of stuff. And so anyway,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I think this game is very exciting. It is a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: lot of fun and is super well designed. So heat
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Pedal to the Metal publisher is called Days of Wonder.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: They make lots of games. Go check that one out
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: if you're if people are interested in looking for a
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: really exciting car racing game that is. And to be fair,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I am not a person who watches car racing at all. Ever,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: not in any capacity do I pay attention to this.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: The closest I'll get is Mario Kart and and so,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: and I found this very exciting. So I think this
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: is speaks to a lot of people who who just
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: want an exciting game to play.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Well, and the game pieces are adorable, those little cards are.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: There's for you. Yeah, it did a great job.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: There's so little Oh that's so fun.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah all right.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: So my recommendation is a comic book series, and it
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: is a comic book series by Garth and it's called
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: The Boys. Now we have talked about The Boys on
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: this show from the show, yeah yeah, And apparently my
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: understanding is that the show is fairly faithful to the
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: comic with a couple of different twists and turns that
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: are that make it kind of exciting. So like, if
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: you watch the show, it's not necessarily going to spoil
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: anything for you for the comics or vice versa, which
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: I think is I think is always really fun. I
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: am at the last omnibus of this series. There are
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: six omnibus books collected editions, so it's not a very
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: long series compared to some other comic books that are
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: out there, like The Walking Dead I think has like
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: thirty two I think collected trade paperback editions or something
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: like that they have. There's a lot of Walking Dead.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: So The Boys is not something that take It doesn't
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: take very long, but I will say it's a little wild,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: I bet lots of layers, lots of layers, but they
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: can get away with a little bit more I think
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: in the comics than they can on the TV show,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: Like they can be more graphic about stuff. And so basically,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: if you're not familiar with the story of the Boys,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: it's basically a team of people that are actively working
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: against superheroes that exist in this world and there's complications
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: for how the superheroes came up and like what they are,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: and you discover that like you know, I don't think
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: this is too much of a spoiler. They're all basically
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: corporate entities, and so yeah.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: That's pretty clear in the show at least. Yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's kind of and that's kind of the
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: same thing. It's like, so it's like one if superheroes.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: We're like really awful people and we're just like corporate shills,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: and then you've got this like government group that is
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: actively working against them in different ways. So it's great.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: The writing is great, and Garth and this is really
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: really great. And I just learned that before we started
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: talking about the show. I just learned that Preacher, the
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: other series that Garth Ennis does, is actually in the
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: same universe as The Boys, so it's a shared universe.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: So that is kind of a fun thing. There's a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: brief nod to it in The Boys. It's a Preacher
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: in The Boys, but it's still in the same universe,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: which is like really fascinating, interesting, interesting, Okay, cool, Yeah,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: it's good stuff.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: So that is that is heat pedal to the metal
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: of the Board Game and The Boys the comics series. Yes,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: for people who are interested in checking out those things.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: But as I said, this is a part one. We
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: will be back with a part two to discuss more
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: on houselessness next week. In the meantime, we publish minis,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: These short dive episodes that are about ten to fifteen
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: minutes long, come out on Mondays. Our full length come
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: out on Wednesdays, and then every once in a while
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: we will publish a nostalgia where we will re re
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: release a previous episode but adds some like updated research
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: to something that's been out for at least five years
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: of our catalog, because we've been doing this for like
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: almost eight years.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: Now, Yes, we have. It's wild.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: It's a long time.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: It's a long time.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: That's the better part of a decade. I'm given to understand.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, it seems close.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: I was a young man back then. All right, thank
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: you so much for listening. I think that is all
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: that I have. Is there anything else you would like
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: to add or that I forgot before we wrap this
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: one up?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: No? I think that covers it for now.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: This is Abraham and it's for Shane.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: We're out to Yep, you've been listening to Why we
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: do what we do.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: we hope you have an awesome day.