Latest / find your cause / Spam Texts: Who Is Really Behind Them? with Laura Parker

Transcript

Spam Texts: Who Is Really Behind Them? with Laura Parker · find your cause

• speaker-0: You know, you get those texts on your phone that are like, Hey John, you wanna do dinner and you don't know who they are and so you just block and delete. But the tragic thing is that these are human trafficking victims that are doing the scamming, but they're being forced to do it. speaker-1: Alrighty, so thanks everyone for tuning into this episode of Find Your Cause. Today we have Laura Parker, who's the CEO and co-founder of the Exodus Road. Laura, thank you so much for your time on this wonderful Thursday. speaker-0: I am so excited to be here, Joseph. speaker-1: Yes. Per usual we'd like to get started with the mission of the organizations that we interview. So what is the mission of the Exodus Road? speaker-0: We find and free those trapped in human trafficking and we believe in a world where no human is bought, sold, or exploited. speaker-1: Yeah. So awesome. That's an elevator pitch if I've ever heard one. And we're gonna get into the details and everything that you all do towards that mission. But before we do, why you? Why is this an area that you're so passionate about and have dedicated a large part of your life to? speaker-0: Yeah, it's interesting because I think with a lot of good causes, it finds you. And this was definitely not something that I was looking for. I actually didn't really have human trafficking even on my radar. I had seen the movie Taken with Liam Neeson, and that was about it. Yeah, that was about it. I knew human trafficking was Liam Neeson and Taken. And my family, we moved to Northern Thailand to take a short term stint doing humanitarian work at a children's home there in rural Thailand. And we had three kids, three, five, and seven. And I think for me, I just was excited about the adventure of it. I was excited about serving. I was excited about learning. But it really wasn't about human trafficking. But when we got there, we were Helping a foundation, a family foundation, run this home that was part boarding school, part orphanage for girls from the hill tribe regions of Northern Thailand. And as we just were there and started learning about the community, we started hearing this story about these men who would come into trucks into these girls' villages and would present fake job offers of. a nanny job or a restaurant job. And these girls, these teenage girls, 14, 15 year olds, would get into the these trucks and go with these men and then they would disappear. They would actually be sold into sex trafficking in Bangkok or in Patia in Southern Thailand. And it happened so much there was this saying in the village that there are no pretty girls in the village. Which obviously is a horrible thing to say, but More horrible is the reality of why that was a common phrase in that time period. And that was about 17 years ago now. And we were just heartbroken. And that was, I think, the door that started opening for us, my husband, Matt, and I, who were both co-founders of what we could do perhaps to step into the work. And so long story short, my husband. served on a research committee of other nonprofits for about a year there in Northern Thailand. And then he was asked to be an informant with the Thai Royal Police to start identifying minors in bars and brothels throughout Thailand. And very humbly we stepped in. It was at first it was just one case, one bar. All he had to do was go in and identify if there was a teenager. And it was interesting because there was a teenager in that Bar and she was, it was in Bangkok. Her story was exactly the story that we had heard in the villages. She was tricked, she wanted to go home. She didn't know how to go home. And she was sold to multiple men and night. And so I think for us, we had this moment by this creek with our kids playing. And it was a very humble, heartbreaking moment where he said, I don't know, should I do this again? Should I try to help in this way? And We both just felt so not equipped, obviously, for this kind of darkness and this kind of work. But we sat there and we looked at our own kids and there was just this clarity around if it were my kids, what would my answer to that question be? And it was really that motivation of looking at my own kids and thinking, these are somebody else's daughters that are in these places. And if there's a need, could we step in and meet it? And so That that's how the Exodus Road started specifically in the intervention space and specifically with my husband, who was the first undercover operative of the organization. speaker-1: Wow. That's amaz having two daughters myself. Human trafficking is a topic that in our nonprofit we've interviewed a few founders and CEOs of, and it is a very dark side of humanity that it's easier to just not think about and assume it's not happening. And in your initial background of explaining that your first interaction with human trafficking was via the movie Take It, I think that's like the majority of us all is okay, that's human trafficking. It actually it's not just happening in certain locations of the world, it's happening all over the world, even in first world populations, even close to home. And then that planted the seed of really for me understanding how human trafficking is happening everywhere and impacts everyone, not just eighteen plus year olds. It's happening to ten year olds, to thirteen year olds. And it just it is a very dark side of humanity that it's very sad. A couple follow-up questions. Two questions. Have you personally, being one of the co-founders, been able to wake up not being depressed always, knowing that this is humanity. And then I wanna hear a little bit about how your organization has evolved beyond just the initial intervention and other areas and why you've expanded the Exodus road. speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's what you said is really true. It is a really dark space. And it's a space that just has a lot of trauma that is passed around the sector from obviously the survivors and those involved and the secondary trauma for those trying to identify those survivors or those victims or walk with them into healing. It is rife with trauma and with the the darkness, it's really interesting because I think oftentimes one of the issues with human trafficking is that it's so dark, people don't even like to think or talk about it, much less step into the work. And so that's one of the really unique challenges of this sector is that there is this hesitancy. You say human trafficking and people step back. On this podcast, you say the word we're going to talk about human trafficking and people are like, Skip, let's talk about another issue that feels safer and I totally get that because it's really difficult. But I think for me it's this juxtaposition of I do see the worst of humanity, but I also do get a front row and really privileged seat to the best of humanity because I understand what our field teams do every night. I understand that they get up and leave at 2 a.m. in the morning so they can be there with a survivor when she's at the police station. And so I get to see also the opposite lens of the worst of humanity. I get to see the best of humanity. And that is very hopeful. I do think you have to put your attention on that sometimes more, right? You have to direct your attention there. I also think for me personally, I did strength finders a couple of years ago and that's such a good Test and my number one strength and strength finders is actually positivity, which is funny, but I do think in some ways it's been a little bit comforting to me when people ask me, How do you stay joyful in the midst of this, in the midst of all this awful? And I find a lot of comfort to know that I was designed to be able to walk. Yes. speaker-1: It's a gift that you've been given as a human. speaker-0: Yeah, that I didn't even realize was important. until now as I watch it being played out. But I also think my being able to grow in what it means to take care of myself and have practices that are centering to myself as a healthy human obviously has been a big part of my growing as a human in this space. speaker-1: Yeah. And I had the second part of the question, but I wanna add another question before we get to the the different programming and how it's evolved. But the decision, the early on decision of you and your husband to have him be the first informant, a at that point did you guys have kids? Yeah, and how is that dialogue of this is probably a dangerous thing for you guys to decide to get into. How is that conversation and what was The balance of this is dangerous, we have a family, is it worth it? We're being called to this, but at the same time that conversation I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall. Yeah. speaker-0: Yes, yeah. It was yeah, we did have at that time our kids were probably f maybe five, seven, and nine. And we were living as I said, in Thailand. And I think there is in nonprofit work sometimes there is a real there's a goodness in not knowing how deep the rabbit hole goes. Because I do think if I would have known what If I was being just real honest, if I would have known what the Exodus Road would have cost me personally, I'm confident to say I'm not that altruistic and unselfish. I don't know that I would have said yes when he said, Let's let do we want to start doing this? But I think that's the grace of it, right? Is that you don't know the whole story. You don't know where the road is going to take you. You only have this invitation to be faithful or to say yes to what you believe is the next right step that you're supposed to take and the opportunity that you're supposed to take right then. And so for us, there was this this moment by the creek that we were just really looking at our kids and asking ourselves, it was after that first mission, and Matt just said, Do you think that I should do this again? I don't know if he the this police chief needs help. And we just looked at our own kids and we just had this clarity that if it somewhere else we're sitting, if it was our kid that was the 15 year old stuck in a brothel in Bangkok. Would we want someone to say yes to this moment of trying to figure out how to identify her and get her home? And but again, I think that beginning, our work has really evolved. And at the beginning it was just him going in and identifying minors and that undercover work really evolved really quickly into complexity and danger and impact and efficacy and technology and all of that. grew along the way, but we didn't step into that at the beginning. At the beginning it was just, Could you do this case? And okay, yes. Could you do the next case? Okay, yes. And I think that's a lot of times how good work starts, right? It's just yep. One one step at a time. speaker-1: And th the reason why the local police or officials asked you and him to do that, was it because you were not from the country and so it would have been easier to disguise a potentially a Caucasian man and a Thai bar versus somebody who might be local? Was that the logic behind it? speaker-0: Yes, exactly. It's specifically in Thailand during that time. And again, this was we started that organization about 15 years ago. So we really started ramping up work around 15 years ago. And at that time, right now there are thankfully a lot more nonprofits in Thailand working in this space. But at the time there weren't as many nonprofits in this space. And the real gap that we saw was that there was such a high amount of sex tourism, Western sex tourism. in the city center. So there's definitely there's definitely abuse that happens in the local community as well. But that was one of the areas that Thai law enforcement couldn't get into these establishments because they weren't Western. But so they needed a a Western man to go in and get intelligence and get body worn camera evidence and all of that. And so that was this real unique niche that we fit. speaker-1: Yeah. How 'cause I think this is also a very important topic in the conversation towards ending trafficking, because if there's not a market for it, there's not a g be demand for it, et cetera, with the you said I forgot the term you use, but the Western sex tourism, how has that evolved? And maybe specifically in Thailand? Is it improving? Are people more informed of these women, these girls in these countries? they might not be willing or there by choice initially. Explain to me that how maybe that's evolved over fifteen, ten years. speaker-0: Yeah, it definitely has evolved. When we first started doing work, it was not all that difficult to identify a minor being sold in a commercial red light district. There weren't 10 year olds or anything like that, but it was not that difficult to find a 15 or a 16 year old, for example. And before we started doing work before it was you could find younger kids and it was even more obvious and out in the open. Now, 15 years in, it's really interesting because there are still minors that are working in commercial red light districts, but it's very difficult to get evidence and to find them. And so there is this impact around this type of work, intervention work that really does, we say How do we make trafficking a dangerous crime to do? And so all of the work that so many in the community have done to to give accountability to traffickers has really had an impact in Thailand specifically. But it's interesting because there are other parts of the world that, you know, Cambodia, for example, or India, for example, another place where we work where there still is just a rampant amount of young girls and boys for sale out in the open. speaker-1: I think it it would be powerful to be able to connect a decision to an impact. For example, my wife and I for our honeymoon we went to Thailand and we went to Bangkok and Phuket and in Phuket like every other shop was like an art studio, a tourism, like a tour guide studio, or like a massage parlor. And I remember at the time, like just walking with her, like it it was laughable and funny comedic at that point, but now perspective knowing more about human trafficking, having daughters. I wish there was a way to explaining like how if there wasn't a market, there wouldn't be as much of a demand for human trafficking. Is it possible to say like person that's walking in Phuket, Thailand, that's an 18-year-old American that has gone there for vacation, what is your opinion on that whole industry? And is there a way to explain to that certain demographic, like if you were to say no to going into these massage parlors and ten thousand people were to say no to this, like human trafficking would reduce by fifty percent. Like just seeing like explaining the power of not doing that and not participating in that industry and what the downstream impact is. Is there a way to connect those dots or is it too hard at this point? Yeah. speaker-0: It's really difficult, but you're definitely right. I think the the reality is that human trafficking crime specifically, it requires a buyer, right? All crime requires a buyer. But the the buyer in this scenario oftentimes is it usually men. Obviously we do cases with boys as well, but most of them are men. And it's interesting because the whole veneer, the thing that's really difficult about human trafficking, especially in the commercial red light districts in Thailand, is that it is painted with this veneer of a big party. And unless you're really intentional about paying attention and know the system, it would be very easy to believe the lie that everyone is selling, that it's a big party, that everyone loves what's happening and there's a lot of money. speaker-1: Willing particip speaker-0: Everyone's a willing participant. And there's a lot of money that is made from both the government and obviously business people. There's a lot of money that is made in these places. And it's difficult because the exploitation happens right within the fabric of a lot of knowing and willing participants in the sex industry. And that's what's really difficult because we worked a case several years ago where there was a a young woman from Uganda and she had a conversation with my husband for about on a street corner about 3 a.m. in Bangkok and she had a her name was Cindy and she had a conversation with him for several minutes and it was very much the from the outward perspective you would think she was selling him and she was of age because she was over eighteen. And as the conversation progressed, there was something that broke in her. And she eventually said, actually, Matt, I actually don't want to be here. I didn't know this was what I was doing. I want to get home. I have two children at home. She was missing a part of a front tooth. And she said, My trafficker, when I tried to run away, he beat me up. And and we were able, thankfully, to work with another fantastic organization there on the ground in Thailand to get her home eventually. But I think that's the difficulty is that for the first big portion of that conversation with Cindy, no one would know that she was actually a trafficking victim. And it just so happened that she was brave enough to say the truth. But she also said I was nervous to say the truth because last month I tried to say the truth to another man and he was actually hired by law enforcement who were corrupt and they actually also beat me because I Told the truth and asked to get home. So it's just it's so I think that's the real complexity of the industry at large. speaker-1: Yeah. And I think getting into the other programs that you have, one of the misconceptions I had about trafficking when I was initially learning it was that it's easy to distinguish whether assuming the women is of age and I do of age because it's just eighteen year old versus seventeen year old, it's still very sad. That have been coerced or truly willing. How do you delineate willing in trafficking? And in for aftercare, for example, the trauma that these mostly women experience in preventing the I don't know what the term is in human trafficking of recidivism. So like once and if they are able to get out, how do they not go back in? And that is a whole area of human trafficking I had not even thought about prior to interviewing some of these organizations. Educate me a little bit on y y'all's aftercare solutions and why it's important. speaker-0: Yeah, it's very important. We launched our official aftercare work about five years ago and we have a residential shelter in southern Thailand and it's the only residential shelter that's approved by the government in the same region where Patia Thailand is, which is a huge red light district there. And it's called Freedom Home. And we really did that because as we were doing the work at the beginning of any nonprofit, you're just trying to stay alive. And you know that if you say yes to too many things, you won't be able to survive. And so we had just for the first 10 years, we were laser focused on intervention work with law enforcement. But what we started seeing that really gave us great pause and really made us say, hey, we have to invest in aftercare as well, is we started actually doing casework with the same victims. So we would essentially with police work with the exact same victims in the exact same case multiple times. And it was exactly what you were saying. If survivors don't have healing and a way to make money that is dignified work and their medical needs aren't taken care of and their financial needs aren't taken care of and their trauma isn't taken care of. There's so little resources, particularly internationally, for survivors that so often maybe they have access to a month of care and then they're put out on the streets again after their case is done. And because it's such a rampant industry, it's particularly in Asia, so often they end up right back in the sex industry. And I think to your point of how difficult it is to determine casework between someone that's officially an adult and a minor. I think one of things that we see oftentimes in our work in Thailand is that oftentimes a young woman, we will start interacting with her and maybe she is 19 or maybe she is 20. But the reality is that she has been in exploitation since she was 14. So I think that's really interesting too. A lot of times a nonprofit or the police might intersect with an adult, but actually they were being trafficked since they were teenagers and they were minors. And our program at Freedom Home in Thailand, we're able to have a success rate of ninety seven percent of the young survivors that are in our care don't go back to exploitive situations. And so I think for us that's obviously very hopeful, but it's such a small number that we're able to serve compared to the scope of the problem. But yeah, aftercare is really critical. speaker-1: Yeah. And it's probably a controversial question, but somebody that has been in an organization that is fighting trafficking, how has your opinion of whether or not sex tourism should be allowed or not allowed? Just banned across the world or eighteen years old plus capitalism, great, whatever. Like how is your opinion of that evolved over the past ten, fifteen years? Because in the advent of technology with with the apps now that are basically like virtual I don't know like sex tourism now that are now inundating our societies where you subscribe to people and I forgot what the app is called. It's probably good, I don't know the name of it, but that also impacts an opinion of the industry. Personally, do you think sex tourism should be banned globally? speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. Organizationally, we are really clear that we're not actually fighting prostitution. We're not actually in those arguments because we just really don't want to muddy the waters. We're really talking about human trafficking. Personally, I would love for it to be banned. Absolutely. Because it allows for greed to win the day. It allows it creates a system where there is not human dignity and where people's bodies are. bought and sold like canned goods on a shelf. And I can't imagine that being good for the good of humanity. speaker-1: Yep. And that kind of semi-answers my next question is what do you think government's responsibility is in these different countries? speaker-0: Yeah. And I think that's the really difficult thing. When you think about modern slavery as a whole, the numbers are about fifty million people impacted globally. And the amount of resources that goes to combating human trafficking is a tiny sliver of the amount of funding that government agencies give to combat this crime. And human trafficking is fourth in the most lucrative illegal industry. And obviously there's so much money that goes to fighting drugs and guns, but human trafficking just really is woefully underresourced. And yeah, definitely governments need to have stronger policies, stronger laws, stronger justice systems that enact those laws. And then more money into systems that would prevent the crime as well. And I think one of one of the biggest factors in human trafficking globally, it really is just it comes down to do you have the ability to find meaningful employment that can support yourself and your family? And so often it's that economic need that drives the exploitation. And so any amount of work that governments can do for their countries to Increase their people's access to good, stable, dignified jobs is a really powerful prevention mechanism too. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. So it's a responsibility of the government to understand what other types of industries can draw the attention away from attention of course, like the people that are being trafficked, but also the traffickers away from that being an option that's possible. So it it sounds like it's a a valid hypothesis or assumption that it is gonna be very hard to get to to eliminate completely human trafficking if the sex industry is active and i is not banned or is allowed. It's gonna be very hard, it sounds like speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. But the other big component too is that whereas obviously sex trafficking is huge, forced labor is also a really significant issue globally. And that is driven by the consumer's demand for cheaply made goods that are not ethically sourced. And that's another rabbit hole because when you think of a a typical American consumer, for example, and our demand for the the cheapest thing that we can buy, so often somewhere in that supply chain, there was slave labor that made that cheap price possible. And so that's another really sobering component as well. speaker-1: And it you sort of me another aha moment to me learning about this is I think when people hear trafficking, they assume sex trafficking. But what are some of the other most common trafficking that you guys support and deal with and try to resolve? Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. Definitely the labor trafficking can look like people that are forced to work on farms in agricultural communities here in the United States can look like people that are forced to work in massage parlors. That is also possible. Domestic we worked with a survivor this past year who was a domestic servant brought in from another country into the States. So i if you look internationally, people that s have to serve in brick kilns and Chocolate factories, coffee plantations. One of the most alarming trends right now in human trafficking is the rise of forced criminality or forced labor in scanning compounds. And this has been really heartbreaking. You get those texts on your phone that are like, Hey, John, you want to do dinner? And you don't know who they are. And so you just block and delete. Or sometimes you might answer them and say, Who is this again or whatever? And you start a conversation. A lot of times those texts are coming from these scamming compounds in Myanmar and Cambodia and the Philippines as well. And it is wild and terrifying what happens is usually the mafia run these compounds and they have very high tech false job. loops that they bring people in. And a lot of these people that fall into the scam are actually IT professionals. So it's not impoverished girls from the village. There are people that have master's degree in IT and they're from Singapore or they're from different countries in Africa or they're from Thailand. And they come in and they get put in these scamming compounds, which are these giant compounds, and they're forced to scam Americans or Europeans or Australians from money. And they actually use AI to scrape and identify and coach the person who's being forced to do the scam and how to get information. And then also ultimately obviously they want crypto or access to a savings account. And so that is significant because it has created a major humanitarian crisis. There's an estimated, I think 200,000 victims estimated in Myanmar alone into just a couple of those camps. And the the tip report, the US TIP report just released it as a US security threat because there were so many billions of dollars that was being scammed from the US. But the tragic thing is that these are human trafficking victims that are doing the scamming, but they're being forced to do it. And we worked with a survivor in one of those and if he didn't complete the scam, then he would get physically beaten and tortured every Friday if he didn't complete the scam. speaker-1: This is wild. I was gonna ask what holds him, what's forcing him to stay there? I didn't know if it was blackmail or physical harp. That's speaker-0: Yeah, physical harm. So they're in this other place, they're surrounded by a Chinese mafia, for example, that are very military and have guns and they're watching everything that they're doing. And if they don't hit their quotas of how many scams they've been able to successfully implement, then they get beaten, they get tortured. They're horrible conditions. And then the really difficult thing is that sometimes if they do escape. they don't have any papers and so then it's really difficult for these governments to identify them as human trafficking victims or do we put them into prison because they don't have the proper paperwork. And so it's created a real crisis for people, particularly in Southeast Asia. speaker-1: I feel like the again, the assumption is that the people that are scamming you are the antagonists. And so there are like YouTube channels out there where there's like the IT folks that uncover who the scammer is and kinda make the scammer out to be the bad guy, but I think this opens up a whole new realm of possibility that they could be a part of a trafficking camp. That's wild. speaker-0: And there definitely are still scammers that are true scammers. So that still happens for sure too. But it's just, yeah, it's it becomes really complicated and it really intersects with people. I think a lot of times people think human trafficking is somewhere else. But I think that's one of the things that we say is every time you get a text from a strange number, could you let that be this nudge of remembrance that perhaps the other person on this text is being held against their will. speaker-1: Yeah. Wow. So looking forward ten years at the Exodus Road, what impact do you hope to have achieved? What areas do you hope to have focused on or where do you see the organization going? speaker-0: Yeah, thanks for asking. I love talking about where we're headed in the future. We just came out of our process where we did our five year planning strategy. So I'll talk five years because that one is really fresh on my mind. We have I already talked about aftercare and we still have our intervention work with law enforcement where we provide them technology and we do technology facilitated investigations and we also have human intelligence officers as well. So we still want to continue that work. But then we also have prevention education, which is the one program that I haven't mentioned yet. And that work is specific to right now, largely to what does it mean to educate kids and families and how to stay safe online? Because so much exploitation has gone to the online space. And so we have a program that actually has gotten federal funding called Influenced. And that program is in several states now. We're still working to get it out in many more states and in schools and youth groups and community groups. But then it's also translated into Spanish and Portuguese and is throughout Latin America as well. And so when you look across all three of those programs for prevention, intervention, and aftercare, we want to impact a million people in the next five years. So we have a million is our target of impact and That's providing direct services to about 225,000 individuals throughout those three programs. And then we want to be able to continue to invest in the the countries and the offices where we are, but also be able to expand and double our global footprint. So right now we have nine offices or satellite offices. throughout the world. And we really want to get to 18. We want to double that in the next five years. We're really excited and hopeful. I think we're excited about some of the partners that we are hopefully going to be working with in the near future. And I think one of the things that's so interesting about the human trafficking space is that because so much of it has gone the way of technology, It used to be that we had to physically send a human into a place like my husband did to identify and the amount of risk and the time and the resource of that is it's slow going. And so the opportunity it's better that it's all online and so rampant, but the opportunity that gives us is that as we are investing in technology, hopefully we're gonna be able to scale and try to keep up with the trends of how much is going. online and digital. speaker-1: No. Wow. People that are listening and are inspired and want to get engaged, what type of engagement do you typically look for and how could they get engaged? speaker-0: Yeah, great question. I think the easiest way is to engage with our stories, to sign up for our newsletters at the Exodus Road, follow us on social media. We have a really great storytelling and marketing team. So that's the easiest way because I think so often in all nonprofit work, and you know this, Joseph, like it's out of sight, out of mind. And so when you forget about it. then your it's not on your radar anymore and you're not actually going to engage. So the first thing we ask is engage with us and don't unsubscribe. We won't spam you, but we will give you good stories. We also have a text message that you can sign up for that we send out real time updates on police work that we do globally. And that's a really encouraging thing to do too. So the first thing I would do is say is engage with us and with our stories and our work. And the second thing is donate. I think that's we all know that's what nonprofit work runs on is resources. And I think so often people wait around for some big solution or next step to fall from the sky. And I think what's most important is what does it look like to just practice the muscle of activism, even if it's a small amount, even if it's $10 a month or something where you're just you're practicing the muscle of engagement. And then third, I would say if you have a kid in your life or if you're involved in any way, shape, or form with anyone that is a teenager or a middle schooler or a parent and they have a phone or they have access to the internet, then the next thing would be to engage with our influenced program because it really has excellent resources around how to keep our own kids safe because it really is again the the most alarming trend that I see right now is the mass exploitation of our kids through their phones and through social media. And so that would be the other thing is to we have a free online parent training course. We have lots of resources. But I think engaging with us that way could be really helpful. speaker-1: Amazing. Laura, we covered a lot and thank you so much for all the amazing work that you have done and are doing. We're really honored to share it here on this platform. And is there anything that maybe we missed or that you want to leave us with before we wrap up? speaker-0: Yeah, thank you, Joseph. I appreciate the time. And I love what you all are doing by highlighting these stories because I think to your point earlier of how do you combat the darkness? It's putting your eyes and attention and remembering the goodness. And so I just appreciate that you all are doing that really intentionally and centering these stories of the good works that people are doing and the way humans are showing up for each other. And so I would just say keep doing that. In the midst of a world that feels perhaps like it's falling apart. Keep your eyes on what you can give your attention intentionally to that which spurs you forward. So I just appreciate the time and have love for the conversation. speaker-1: Yes. I have two. Laura, thank you again so much for your time. People that are listening will be sure to share all the links of how to get engaged with the Exodus Road. And Laura will be cheering you on in your endeavors and and your achievement of the million impacted in the next five years. So thank you so much and we'll see you soon, I'm sure. speaker-0: Thanks, Joseph.