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Dune: Part 2 · This Film is Lit

• 0:04
  Speaker A: This film is lit, the podcast where we finally settle the score on one simple is the book really better than the movie? I'm brian, and I have a film degree, so I watch the movie but don't read the book.
• 0:15
  Speaker B: And I'm Katie. I have an english degree, so I do things the right way and read the book before we watch the movie.
• 0:22
  Speaker A: So prepare to be wowed by our expertise and charm as we dissect all of your favorite film adaptations and decide if the silver screen or the written word did it better. So turn it up, settle in, and get ready for spoilers. Because this film is lit. The visions are clear now. I see possible futures all at once. Our enemies are all around us, and in so many futures, they prevail. But I do see a way. There is a narrow way through. It's Dune, part two, and this film is lit. Hello and welcome back to this film is lit, the podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books. It's Dune, part two. It's a switch episode, which means I read it this time. Katie did not. We have every single segment. Also, if you've ever joined us for a switch episode, I talk too much, so it's strap in. We have a lot to get to. We're gonna jump right in. If you have not read Dune or watched Dune part two, here is a brief summary of the film sourced from Wikipedia. Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up. If you don't need a summary of the film, you can skip to 725.
• 1:42
  Speaker B: As Brian said, this is from Wikipedia. It is a summary of the movie, not the book. I understand that there are some differences based on our discussions.
• 1:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. What we've started doing recently is we just do the movie summary. So that way. Yeah.
• 1:58
  Speaker B: So summary of the movie. And I will apologize in advance for what is surely about to be some butchering of Dune Lingo.
• 2:06
  Speaker A: Also, if we know anything else about Wikipedia's movie summaries, it'll probably be slightly off.
• 2:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. Following the destruction of House Atreides by House Harkonnen Princess Erulian, the daughter of Paddy Padisha, Emperor Shaddam IV journals about her father's betrayal of the Atreides on Arrakis. Stilgar's Fremen troops, including Paul Atreides and his pregnant Bene Gesserit mother, Lady Jessica, overcome a Harkonnen patrol when Jessica and Paul reach Sechtabur. Tabor, siech seech Tabur.
• 2:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, Tabur.
• 2:44
  Speaker B: Tabur.
• 2:44
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 2:45
  Speaker B: Yeah, some Fremen suspect they are spies. While Stilgar and others see signs of the prophecy that a mother and son from the outer world will bring prosperity to Arrakis. Stilgar tells Jessica that she must succeed the siege tabor's dying Reverend mother by drinking the water of life, a poison fatal for males and untrained women. Her Bene Gesserit training allows Jessica to transmute and survive the poison, inheriting the memories of all the past Reverend mothers. But the liquid also prematurely awakens the mind of her unborn daughter, Aaliyah, allowing Jessica to communicate with her. They agree to focus on convincing the more skeptical northern Fremen of the prophecy. Chani and her friend Shashalki. Shashal Shishakli. Shishakli correctly believe the prophecy was fabricated to manipulate the Fremen. But Chani begins to respect Paul after he declares that he only intends to fight alongside the Fremen, not to rule them. Paul and Chani fall in love as Paul immerses himself in Fremen culture, learning their language, becoming a fidokin fighter, riding a sandworm, and raiding Harkonnen spice operations. Paul adopts the Fremen names Ussel and Maudib due to the continuing spice raids. Baron Vladimir Harkonnen replaces his nephew Robin Rabin.
• 4:06
  Speaker A: Raban.
• 4:07
  Speaker B: Raban. Not even what I guessed as Arrakis ruler with his more cunning and psychotic. So a psychopathic younger nephew, Feyd Rotha, Lady Margot Fenring, a Bene Gesserit, is sent to evaluate Feydratha as a prospective quit cuisatz Hatterak and secure his genetic.
• 4:29
  Speaker A: Lineage, which, I don't even know if I pronounce that. That's how they say it in the movie, is Cuisatz Hatterach. But I. Yeah.
• 4:34
  Speaker B: Jessica travels south to unite with Fremen fundamentalists who believe most strongly in the prophecy. Paul remains in the north, feel fearful that his visions of an apocalyptic holy war will come to pass if he goes south as a messiah. During a raid on a smuggler spice harvester, Paul reunites with Gurney Halleck, who leads Paul to the hidden atomic warhead stockpile of House Atreides. Feyd Rotha unleashes a devastating attack on the northern Fremen, destroying Siege Tabor, killing Shishakli and forcing Paul and the survivors to journey south. Upon arrival, Paul drinks the water of life and falls into a coma. This angers Chani, but Jessica compels her to mix her tears with the liquid, which awakens Paul. Now possessing clairvoyance across space and time, Paul sees an adult aliyah on a water filled Arrakis.
• 5:26
  Speaker A: He already possessed that. That's wrong. But the water of life makes it anyways. We'll get into it.
• 5:32
  Speaker B: But he also sees a singular path to victory among all possible futures and that Jessica is Baron Harkonnen's daughter. Paul meets with the southern Fremen War Council, galvanizing the crowd by demonstrating his ability to discern their deepest thoughts. He declares himself the Lisan al Gheib and Lisin al Ghayib and sends a challenge to Shaddam, who arrives on Arrakis with Aurelian and the Sadaqor. As Shaddam chastises the Harkonnens for their failures, the Fremen launch an offensive. Using atomics and sandworms to overpower the Sadaqor. Paul executes the baron and captures Saddam and his entourage. Meanwhile, Gurney leaves, leads an assault on Arrkin, intercepting and killing Rabban. Paul challenges Shaddam for the throne and to Chani's dismay, demands to marry Aurelian, previously summoned by the baron. The great houses arrive in orbit, ready to invade the planet. But Paul threatens to destroy the spice fields with atomic weapons if they intervene. Feyd Ratha volunteers to be Shaddams champion, and Paul kills him in a duel. Erulian agrees to Pauls request for marriage on the condition that her father lives. Shaddam surrenders, but the great houses reject pauls ascendancy. So he orders the Fremen to attack the orbiting fleet. As Stilgar leads the Fremen onto the captured Sadakor ships, Jessica and Aalyah reflect on the beginning of Paul's holy war. Chani refuses to bow to Paul and departs alone on a sandworm.
• 7:09
  Speaker A: All right. There's a summary of the film, very in depth, actually. Not wrong, mostly for the film.
• 7:15
  Speaker B: A couple things, like a little out of order, but not as bad as it sometimes is.
• 7:20
  Speaker A: But that's the summary of the film. I'm probably gonna put a time code in so people can skip ahead if they, because it was fairly long. But if you're joining us back now or if you're still here, we do have a guess who. So let's get into that. I have five of them for you. Let's play guess who. Who are you? No one of consequence. I must know. Get used to disappointment. Okay, so this first one, I'm gonna read two different descriptions because this character is described kind of twice. So first up or first half of the description? Well, I say half. They're just same. Just anyways. First description, a dark haired youth of about 16 years. Round of face and with sullen eyes. Let me get to the other description here. Cause that is one thing Frank Herbert describes characters almost every time they show.
• 8:11
  Speaker B: We love that.
• 8:12
  Speaker A: Yeah. His dark hair was dressed in close ringlets that seemed incongruously gay. Above sullen eyes, he wore a tight fitting black tunic and snug trousers with the suggestion of a bell at the bottom. Soft soled slippers covered his small feet. So that is the same character in two vastly different scenes. Like far apart in time, even.
• 8:34
  Speaker B: And this is a character that's in the movie?
• 8:36
  Speaker A: Yes, in the movie and specifically in part two, obviously.
• 8:40
  Speaker B: All right, so dark haired youth and ringlets. That, to me, says Paul Atreides. Round of face definitely does not describe Timothee Chalamet.
• 8:55
  Speaker A: True.
• 8:55
  Speaker B: He has a very angular face. A lot of cheekbone going on there.
• 9:00
  Speaker A: I will give you this hint. Round of Face doesn't describe this character in the movie very well.
• 9:06
  Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: The rest of it. The rest of it, I don't know. That ruins the point of the game. So I'll just, never mind.
• 9:14
  Speaker B: I mean, I also would not have described Paul as sullen, but I'm not really sure. Just, like, thinking about it. I'm not really sure who else that would be.
• 9:32
  Speaker A: Gotta make a guess.
• 9:34
  Speaker B: All right.
• 9:34
  Speaker A: I'm sorry. We got a lot to get to. We can't take too long on these.
• 9:37
  Speaker B: I'm gonna guess. I'm gonna guess it's Paul.
• 9:40
  Speaker A: It is not Paul. But the fact that you guessed Paul is actually intentional, in my opinion. Cause this is fade routh, though.
• 9:48
  Speaker B: Oh.
• 9:48
  Speaker A: So, as you asked me, not in passing while we were watching the film. In the book, the Harkonnens have hair. They are not all bald, white, pale.
• 10:00
  Speaker B: Because I had questions if the Harkonnens were bald genetically, or if they all shaved their heads.
• 10:06
  Speaker A: In the book, they have hair. So that's why. But the fact that you thought it was Paul is actually, I think, intentional. Because fade is the spoil. To Paul, he's literally the other, like, potential quizots. Had her act like.
• 10:18
  Speaker B: And when you find out they're related, they're related.
• 10:20
  Speaker A: They're cousins. They're bred from this. Yeah. They're both the result of the Benny Jesuit breeding program and stuff. So, yeah, the fact that they're just, that you mistake. Mistook, fade routh. The, for Paul is, you know, a credit to what they're doing here, what Herbert's doing here in the book. All right, next one. This character has been described once before, but I'm just going to read the description that is from the second movie. Kind of. His jowls bobbed up and down. The suspensers jiggled and shifted beneath his orange robe. Rings glittered on his hands, and opafire shone where they would have. Where they had been woven into the robe.
• 10:57
  Speaker B: Okay, well, that one seems pretty easy. Unless there's another character in the book that has a suspension system that's not in the movie. That's the Baron.
• 11:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, that is the baron. And actually, lots of people use suspenser systems, but they don't use them the way. So every time somebody's floating in the movie, they're using a suspenser system. But they don't use them to, like, get around normally. They use them to, like, float around and stuff.
• 11:19
  Speaker B: So, yeah, he floats around like a balloon.
• 11:21
  Speaker A: Yes, he. Yes, because. Yes, his mass has become large enough that he does not walk most of it at all. So, yeah. All right. And then one more here from the same page. She was golden haired and willowy. Her perfection of figure clothed in a flowing gown of ecrum, simple fitness of form without ornament. Gray green eyes stared back at him. She had that Benny Jesuit serene repose about her that the young man found subtly disturbing.
• 11:51
  Speaker B: Okay, well, that's gotta be Princess Aurelian.
• 11:55
  Speaker A: It's not.
• 11:56
  Speaker B: Actually, it's not.
• 11:57
  Speaker A: There's another blonde Benny Gesserit.
• 12:01
  Speaker B: Oh, that's gonna be Margot.
• 12:03
  Speaker A: Yes. That is Lady Margot Fenrin.
• 12:05
  Speaker B: Yes. Okay. Okay.
• 12:06
  Speaker A: This is all from when on Yeti prime, when the gladiator. This scene that I'm reading these all from is from that scene where they're all there.
• 12:16
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Speaker A: And they're like, this actual scene isn't in the movie. In the movie, we just. At the gladiator arena. This is from before. They fight. Like they're, like, hanging out, talking beforehand. But, yeah, that's where all these are from. So that's Margo Fenring. And then I have two more here, which applies to. It's Leah Sedoux, who plays Margo Fenring in the movie. And I would say that description fits her pretty accurately. Then he stood poised, waiting. A slim, elegant figure in a gray sardaukar uniform. With silver and gold trim. His thin face and cold eye. His thin face and cold eyes reminded the baron of Duke Leto, long dead. There was that same look of the predatory bird. But his hair was red, not black. Most of that hair was concealed by a Bersig's ebon helmet. With the imperial crest in gold upon its crown.
• 13:16
  Speaker B: Hmm. I don't think we actually interact with any sardaukar in the movie, so. And there's never. Cause I had a thought that maybe that, like, Paul is in disguise in one of their uniforms, but I don't think he has red hair. I'm gonna guess that's the emperor.
• 13:41
  Speaker A: That is the emperor. That is Emperor Shaddam IV. The padisha emperor Shaddam IV. And I realized when I read that final part, I was like, oh, I just. When I was like, he's wearing, literally, the emperor's crown. I basically said he was wearing the crown of the emperor. But, eh, whatever. I almost didn't read it. And then I did, so. All right, and then my final one here is. She was tall, blonde, face of chiseled beauty, green eyes that looked past and through him.
• 14:12
  Speaker B: Okay, well, that's gotta be Princess Irulean.
• 14:15
  Speaker A: Yes. That is Princess Erulin. Irulan is actually Irulan. Yeah. So when I was reading it, I pronounced it Irulian. But there's no. I. It's just.
• 14:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I had that thought. But then, for some reason, like, in my head, I thought I had heard somebody say it.
• 14:31
  Speaker A: I'm pretty sure they say Irulan, but I could be wrong. It might be aerulian. Cause that's how it feels like it should be.
• 14:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 14:37
  Speaker A: I don't know. Anyways, all right. That. You got four of those right?
• 14:42
  Speaker B: I went three for five. Three for five, not two. And the two that I got wrong were, like, purposefully sounded like other characters, I feel like.
• 14:50
  Speaker A: So actually, absolutely. All right, Katie has tons of questions. Let's get into them in. Was that in the book?
• 15:00
  Speaker B: Gaston, may I have my book, please?
• 15:02
  Speaker A: How can you read this? There's no pictures.
• 15:04
  Speaker B: Well, some people use their imagination.
• 15:07
  Speaker A: Before Katie gets into this, I just want to put this disclaimer here real quick. I have read Dune twice now. Once three years ago or whatever, when we did Dune, part one, and now just again for this. I have not read any of the other books in the series. I have not seen the 1984 movie. I have a very cursory knowledge of Dune. I did some googling. I did some other searching to help answer questions and stuff like that. I'm gonna do my best, but if I get stuff wrong, just throwing it out there now, it's a very lore heavy book, and there's a lot of little details, and it's. It's a tough one to talk about, so I'm. I'm sure to get some stuff wrong. Please extend me the grace of knowing that I'm doing my best.
• 15:50
  Speaker B: So Brian is in no way claiming to be an expert.
• 15:53
  Speaker A: No, I am not in no way claiming to be an expert on Dune at all. So.
• 15:58
  Speaker B: Okay, so this movie starts out with a diary entry narrated by Princess Aerulon. And we get that as a kind of a recurring theme throughout the film. I loved that. I thought it was very dear America. Is it from the books?
• 16:17
  Speaker A: What is Dear America?
• 16:18
  Speaker B: Dear America is an iconic book series of my childhood. And if you ask pretty much any other girl my age, they're gonna know what dear America is. It was a series of fictional diaries set throughout american history.
• 16:33
  Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah, that's cool.
• 16:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. Very bloody, very dark. We loved them.
• 16:39
  Speaker A: There you go. So, yes, and I was actually very glad for these to finally be included. So, every chapter in the book starts with an excerpt from an in universe text concerning Muadib. And these texts have been written or compiled by the princess Irulan at some date in the future after the events of this book take place. So every. Like I said, every introduction section ends with a citation to her. They very often, like, foreshadow the events that are to come in that chapter, or they provide some sort of thematic setup or something like that, relevant to what is in that chapter. Basically, for just one random example I just flipped to. My father once told me that respect for the truth comes from being. Comes close to being the basis for all morality. Something cannot emerge from nothing. He said, this is profound thinking, if you understand how unstable the truth can be. From conversations with Madib by the princess Urulan. So there's just every chapter starts with something like that.
• 17:41
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker A: O seas of Caladan. O people of Duke Leto. Citadel of Leto, fallen, fallen forever. From songs of Muadib by the Princess Yurilan. So it's all stuff like that. It's like, excerpts from essentially, like, the religious texts of Muadib.
• 17:55
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 17:56
  Speaker A: Basically.
• 17:56
  Speaker B: So this is something that's throughout the entire book. It just wasn't in the first movie.
• 18:01
  Speaker A: Yes. They didn't put in the first movie because they hadn't cast Princess Irulan, would be my guess. Because she's not really an important character in the events of the first part of the book. She becomes more important in the second half. That being said, she does show up, I think, in the. I can't remember. But, yeah, they just chose not to include her in the first movie because she's, again, not that important yet.
• 18:23
  Speaker B: So, following this initial diary section, we catch up with Paul and Jessica and Stilgar and the other Fremen, basically right where movie one left off and they're.
• 18:36
  Speaker A: Traveling, taking Jameis body back to, back.
• 18:39
  Speaker B: To the rest of the northern Fremen. And we see them encounter some Harkonnen guards. So my next question is, does Lady Jessica Mark a Harkonnen with a rock?
• 18:52
  Speaker A: So I do not recall that specific thing of her killing a Harkonnen with a rock. But Jessica is a very capable warrior. In fact, it's actually one of the main reasons, which I don't think the movie touches on specifically that the Fremen accepts them into the siege. Like Stilgar wants her to, wants to learn how to fight from Jessica. He wants to learn her weirding ways, is what he says. And because in that first interaction, which is at the very end of the first movie, she, like, disarms him and holds him at knife point where Paul, like, runs up the rock and, yeah, that's so after she does that, he's like, you're a weirding woman. Why didn't you tell me you were so capable with the blade or whatever? And so she's a very capable fighter. I don't remember her murdering anybody with a rock, though. But she could have.
• 19:35
  Speaker B: I liked it.
• 19:36
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 19:39
  Speaker B: But, so they get to the siege and they're kind of sort of accepted in. Yes, but at one point they're eating some food and one of the Fremen.
• 19:54
  Speaker A: Paul has a reaction.
• 19:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, he has a reaction to it. And one of the Fremen makes a joke about it being too spicy for him.
• 20:01
  Speaker A: Shaklisa.
• 20:03
  Speaker B: And that was a joke that I had layers that I really enjoyed. It was too spicy for the white boy. Is that from the book?
• 20:12
  Speaker A: It is not from the book. That specific conversation does not happen in the book. I also liked it. I thought it was funny. But the food is suffused with spice in the book. The spice is literally everywhere. It ends up in the food. It flavors it. According to the book, it's similar to cinnamon. The scent and flavor is similar to cinnamon. It's also the thing that gives everyone their blue eyes, prolonged exposure to it. It also makes it so you ultimately cannot leave Arrakis without spice because everyone there essentially becomes, like, addicted to it. And addicted may not be the right word in a sense that they're not, like, intentionally using it to, like, get high or whatever. Like, sometimes they do to some extent, but they would they, because they have become so accustomed to it from living there and consuming it all the time. If they leave and they didn't have it they would die or go through, like, terrible withdrawals and stuff. So basically, there's a point in the book where Paul says, like, the spice essentially traps everybody on Arrakis there. Once they get. If they've been there long enough, you can't leave, basically, unless you have spice to take with you.
• 21:15
  Speaker B: So mentioned in the summary that Lady Jessica becomes the next reverend mother of the Fremen. And they mention that the process of doing this, she drinks the water of life, and they say that it's lethal to mention. Is that also the case in the book?
• 21:33
  Speaker A: Yes. So in the. I mean, essentially. But in the book, it's implied, and I think the movie, like the movie summarily said this, it's implied to be lethal to everyone who doesn't have Benny Jesuit training. But even Paul, who has Benny Jesuit training, fails to complete the process on his own. So Jessica, when she does it, and it's not like you can't really tell exactly what's happening in the movie. I think they do say at the end, like, oh, she can. She neutralized the poison or something like that. But Jessica survives by essentially using her Bene Gesserit training to slow down time for herself. They're able to go into this meditative state that essentially, it's how it's described in the book, at least, is time stops in order for her to do this, and then she's able to chemically alter poisons in her body and turn them into harmless things. It's just a thing Benny Gesserit can do. It's this weird power they've developed over millennia or whatever is they can chemically deconstruct poison and make it harmless. And, yeah, that's something Benny Gesser can do. That's why she's able to do it. Paul tries to do it, kind of succeeds, kind of fails. Mostly fails. But, yeah, that's. That's the deal. And like I said, I think it would also kill women who did. Weren't able to do that. I don't think. It's just. But there's also the Benny jazz road. Are all women right?
• 22:53
  Speaker B: Like, so, yeah, Paul is an anomaly. Yeah, speaking of Paul. So one of the whole things with him is that maybe he's the foretold prophesied Messiah.
• 23:07
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 23:08
  Speaker B: Yeah. But he's, at least at the beginning of this movie, he's kind of like, no, I don't want that. But does Paul saying that he is not the Messiah, make some of the Fremen believe that he's the Messiah even harder?
• 23:25
  Speaker A: So the specific scene you're referencing here is the one where he's like, I'm not the Messiah. And Stilgar's like, he says he's not the Messiah. That proves it. It is written as is written, or whatever, which is a great scene. I love that scene. Very funny. And does, again, that specific scene is not in the book, but it does kind of capture a general vibe from Paul in the book, at least briefly throughout most of the book, in that he doesn't really want to become the Messiah. It's kind of messy and hard to explain, but Paul can see he has visions of the future, and this includes the holy war that he is responsible for bringing forth. And he is doing his best for most of the book to avoid this. He does not want to be responsible for bringing about this holy war that will kill millions across the galaxy.
• 24:14
  Speaker B: I mean, as one should not.
• 24:15
  Speaker A: Yes, but he's also trying to take actions to avenge his family and destroy the Harkonnens and take back Arrakis and whatnot. And those two purposes are at odds, essentially. Ultimately, the point of this kind of him trying to deny being the messiah ends up feeling a bit like the idea that you can't escape your destiny, that your terrible purpose, which is a phrase I'm going to use a lot, because the book uses it a lot. This is what Paul kind of refers to. The thing that he feels like his destiny, kind of like the thing that's pushing him towards. This is his terrible purpose that he has. It pushes him forward towards the ends that he does not want, regardless of what he does. And at the end, he ultimately realizes that there's literally nothing he can do to stop this, that it is just what's going to happen in the book, at least. It's hard to tell in the movie if that's what the realization or not he comes to.
• 25:17
  Speaker B: I don't remember. We might have talked about this in the dune one episode. Is the book in first person perspective or impulse?
• 25:25
  Speaker A: We jump to every. It's like, I don't know what it's called. We jump to everybody's perspective.
• 25:30
  Speaker B: Third person Unlimited.
• 25:31
  Speaker A: Okay, then, yes, it's third person unlimited, which is a fascinating read. It's one of the only books I think I've read that does that. But you literally jump into the thoughts of, like, characters from sentence to sentence. You will go from, you'll be in Paul's head hearing his thoughts. Then you'll jump into Jessica and hear her thoughts. Like it. Yeah, it's primarily like the, you know, like, the Harkonnens and stuff. I don't know if you ever jump into, like, Chani's head and stuff, but it may just be like, the main, main characters, like, the Harkonnens and, well, I guess the Harkonnens, now that I say that, but spoilers. But, yeah, you jump between perspectives, so it's not just from Paul's perspective or anything like that. But you do spend a lot of time in his head, like, kind of parsing what is going through his mind, which is some of the harder stuff to parse in the book, which is him, like, having these weird consciousness expanding, like brain gas. I don't even know how to. It's so hard to explain, like. Or describe where it's like, you know, he's, like, having these visions. But it's all written very poetically. And it's about, like, the time and the twisting in on itself and being a nexus. I don't even, again, without having read it, I don't know how really or without having somebody just read it. I'm not really even sure how to describe it. But it is. You are in his head for much of the book, but you also go into other people's heads, though, and perspectives.
• 26:53
  Speaker B: Okay, back to Jessica real quick. So when she drinks this water of life, she's pregnant.
• 27:03
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 27:03
  Speaker B: And we knew that she was pregnant from the first movie. And then. So she drinks it, and she comes through that, and then it appears that Jessica and her fetus could talk to each other in the movie. Is that the case in the book?
• 27:20
  Speaker A: Okay, so it's finally time to talk about Aaliyah. I say finally, and we're not even that far into the episode yet, but, so the answer to that is yes and no. In the book, there is a two year time jump right after Jessica takes the water of life and becomes the Revan mother. Like, that scene ends, and then we jump forward two years. Okay, after that time jump, Aaliyah, who is the daughter that Jessica was carrying, has been born. So we actually see almost no time from her taking the water of life while still being pregnant.
• 27:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, not nearly that much time passes in the movie. Cause she's still pregnant at the end of it.
• 28:02
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Like, the whole movie takes place over the course of, like, six months, seven months, something like that. Like, I think she's probably very close to giving birth at the end of the movie would be the guess I have. I don't know. So more on the time jump later. I like showing us the stuff that happens during the time jump. Like I said, the film just kind of takes place over the course of, like, that nine months or whatever, but we actually never get to Aaliyah being born. This is one of my biggest disappointments with the film because there is a scene that we will talk about later with Aaliyah that is hilarious and amazing, and it is not in the movie at all that I can't wait to talk about. But to your question, Aaliyah is a tiny two year old child that can talk and reason well beyond her years and the water, because the water of life essentially turned her into, like, a little super Benny Jesuit.
• 28:52
  Speaker B: Sounds horrifying.
• 28:54
  Speaker A: So the movie, having her being able to communicate with her mom in the womb feels reasonable because she gets crazy powers, essentially, from the water of life. It's just that we never see that stage where she's pregnant after taking the water of life. But we do see Aaliyah as a two year old that can walk and talk like an adult.
• 29:14
  Speaker B: So it feels like a reasonable assumption.
• 29:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. That maybe something like that would have happened during that two year period. But again, more on Aaliyah later, for sure.
• 29:23
  Speaker B: Okay, so we're kind of moving forward. Paul is hanging out with the Fremen and really getting into their culture, and at one point, he gets a Fremen name as well as another name. That's stuff from the book. Can you explain that a little bit?
• 29:43
  Speaker A: Yes. So the naming ceremony happens in the book right after his fight with jammus, and they get accepted into the siege. In the movie, it happens a little bit later, after he learns to ride the seaworm, or actually, it's maybe before the Santa worm, but after they go on raiding it, whatever it happens later, once he's, like, earned his place, they give him the name. They give him a siege name, which is usul, which is what they do in the movie. And only those in siege Tabor or Tabor can use that name. It's like a secret.
• 30:10
  Speaker B: Oh, okay.
• 30:11
  Speaker A: Like family name, kind of, basically. Then he chooses another name, which is his name for every, like, the outer world, like, for the out, everybody outside of siege Tabor, basically. And that's when he asks what they call the little mouse that hops around in the desert, and they say it's called Muadib. And that's when he chooses to name Muadib, but he decides to keep Paul. He says, can I be Paul Muadib? So that I. Cause I'm still in a trade ease, blah, blah, blah. Can I keep? And they're like, yeah, yeah, that's fine. And actually, in the book, and I don't remember if the movie does this or not in the book, he actually, this, like, shocks Jessica when he asks, like, what the mouse is. And they're like, it's Madib. Because really early on, Paul tells Jessica he's had these dreams about people calling him wadib, basically.
• 31:00
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 31:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:02
  Speaker B: So you mentioned Paul learning to ride the sandworms, which is a thing that I have many thoughts on for later. And one of the things that happens in the movie is that he calls a wild sandworm for the first time. Shy hallood, shy halood. Everybody's like, whoa, that worm's really big. Does he call forth a giant, biggest. The biggest worm of all?
• 31:31
  Speaker A: So I went back at that. Initially, I thought, yeah, I think there is a thing about it being, like, a big one. But I went back and reread that moment in the book, and I don't think that there's any mention of the size of the worm at all.
• 31:41
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 31:42
  Speaker A: So I think that is just a movie thing to kind of hype up the moment. But I have a note here that I do. I have this as, like, kind of a better in the movie scene. It's, I'd say a movie nailed it. Bordering on better in the movie. The scene where Paul mounts the sandworm in the movie I thought was great. Some little details that aren't in the book that I really liked is that I actually love. So in the book, there's this thing called Drum sand, which is a thing you actually will try to avoid, because if you step on it or walk on it, it draws a sandworm.
• 32:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 32:13
  Speaker A: And it's that thing. I assume this is what they're basing in the movie, the thing where they, like, pound on the sand and they find a place where it, like, resonates. And that's where they put the thumper, which is what the little thing that lures the sandworm is called. So I liked in the movie that he has to find, because in the. In the book, they actually tell him Stilgar's like, oh, you were really. You were too close. Did you not notice there was drum sand right next to you? If you would have stepped on that, you would have, like, it would have been bad, or. I can't remember the exact details, but I like the movie tweaks it slightly and actually has that be a thing, how they. They actually use the drum sand to, like, call the sandworms because it, like, amplifies the thumper. Again, the movie, or the book does not make any reference to that, like, specific technique, I guess, which I thought was really cool and made a lot of sense in the movie. Also, a little detail that I really liked is how he puts it, like, halfway down the dune, and then the sandworm goes through the dune to, like, eat the thumper. And then that makes a ton of sense to me for getting onto it, because then you can, like, jump down onto it from.
• 33:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, from the top of the top.
• 33:17
  Speaker A: Of the dune, which, again, that is not described in the book, at least in the scene where Paul, he just, like, hooks onto the side of it and climbs up on top, basically. Plus it gives you that extra dramatic, like, dive off the dune onto the worm. And I also love, in the movie, they add the little extendo hook things where they, like, stretch out. They have hooks that they use. That is how they ride the sandworms. But the part where they, like, turn into, like, grappling hooks and get really long. There's no mention of that in the book. I also really liked those, and I saw this whole scene was super cool, so I was a big fan.
• 33:51
  Speaker B: Okay, so continuing with my worm related questions, one thing that really fascinated me in this movie was that the Fremen appear to use the worms as buses, or maybe trains would be more accurate. They, like, all pile on and use them to travel long distances. So is that the case? Yes, in the book.
• 34:16
  Speaker A: That is exactly what happens in the book. They all hop on worms together and ride around, even to the extent that they do in the movie where they put Jessica on, it's called a leader or a li. I don't know how that would be.
• 34:27
  Speaker B: A litter.
• 34:27
  Speaker A: Litter, like the thing that people. People carry royalty around it.
• 34:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:32
  Speaker A: That's specifically described in the book. They strap one of those to the back of a sandworm when they take Jessica south or whatever. And she's writing in that they do.
• 34:39
  Speaker B: That later, too, when they have all of the, like, injured people.
• 34:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, that is exactly what they do. And we'll talk more about the specific sandworm writing later. Cause you have some questions about it in Lawson adaptation, but I'm so excited to talk more about it. Cause I just think it's cool. So we'll get to it.
• 34:57
  Speaker B: Another thing that we find out in this movie is that Princess Rulian is also a Bene Jesuit. Is that also the case in the book? Because I was thinking, initially, I was like, this feels like a conflict of interest. But then I was thinking about, historically, the catholic church, and I was like, maybe not.
• 35:16
  Speaker A: This feels like a conflict of interest is true for every relationship in Dune.
• 35:20
  Speaker B: But I was just, like, I was letting my distrust of religious institutions. Color might.
• 35:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, but literally every relationship in Dune has some conflict of interest going on. It's, like the whole point. But yes. Yes, she is Benny Jezerate. Although in the book, it's not revealed until significantly later from my memory. I actually really like the scene in the movie where her and the emperor are discussing what to do about Muadib that is not in the book at all. We have no idea what she knows about Paul before the. She basically. Other than the little intro sections, which isn't really her. It's just like her relaying the Wadib's writing or whatever. Or sometimes it's her writing, but it's about Wadib or whatever, but we don't. We know what happens after the events of everything in the books, so we don't really know, like, what her motivations and stuff is. And she just shows up at the end. She's in, like, one or two other scenes before that, but basically, I think, and maybe even not. She just shows up at the end of the book in that throne room scene. She's just there. And that's, like, our first introduction to her.
• 36:21
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 36:22
  Speaker A: And the movie decided to put her through a little bit more.
• 36:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Speaker A: So that we kind of set her up and, like, what her motivations and stuff are. And so I liked having those scenes in there. I like setting her up as a Benny Jesuit because, like I said in the book, we just find almost nothing out about her other than at the very end, we, like, find out she's Benny Jeserate. Okay.
• 36:41
  Speaker B: Speaking of Benny Jesret, there's a moment where she's talking to the main Benny.
• 36:51
  Speaker A: Jesus, the Reverend Mohim, whatever her name. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker B: I can't remember the pope of the Benny Jesus.
• 37:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, she is. And she's also specifically because she's specifically the emperor's, like, truthsayer.
• 37:05
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:06
  Speaker A: Because that is another skill that the Benny Jesert have, which I don't know if you noticed that in the movie, they can tell when people are lying, or some of them can. Can tell when people are lying. And so the emperor keeps her around to, like, listen to conversations and tell him if people are lying to him or not.
• 37:22
  Speaker B: So they're discussing kind of some of the machinations that the Bene Gesserit have put out into the world. And Princess Arulan says something about, oh, so you're just hoping that it'll happen the way you want it to. And she responds, we don't hope, we plan.
• 37:42
  Speaker A: We're Benny Jesuit. We don't hope, we plan.
• 37:44
  Speaker B: And I was wondering if that line was from the book.
• 37:47
  Speaker A: So her name is Reverend Mother Moe Mohim Moheim Mohi Mohiam. But, yeah, so that line is not in the book. I had a PDF of this, so I was able to search it, and I did a lot of different iterations, and I also didn't remember it, but I also couldn't find it. I even did some googling and could not find a reference to it in the book. Everything I found was movie references to it. So I'm pretty confident saying it's not in the book, but it's a great line, in my opinion. And it perfectly sums up the Benny jezerate. That is. Their whole thing is they just have plans on plans that extend millennia. Like, that's just all they do is they sprinkle seeds and they set up things and then they put them into action slowly over thousands of years or whatever. So, yeah, not in the book, but very accurate to what the Bene Jesuit are.
• 38:38
  Speaker B: Okay, so now, at this point in the movie, we meet fade Rotha, played by bald Austin Butler. And I called him Austin Butler throughout my notes because I didn't know how to spell fade Rotha.
• 38:52
  Speaker A: It is. Yeah. The names in this, most of them, other than Dunkin, Idaho, are pretty tough.
• 38:57
  Speaker B: Yeah. Well, the funny thing about this whole thing to me is that everybody has, like, extremely fantasy property names.
• 39:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:06
  Speaker B: And then you have, like, Paul and Jessica.
• 39:08
  Speaker A: One of my favorite things is, and I didn't mention it, you made me think of this, is there's a. In the. The Fremen, most of them have names like Stilgar, Chani, vaguely, you know, middle eastern inspired names. Again, I'm not saying they are. I'm just saying, like, vaguely to western ears inspired by, like, middle eastern african names. And one of we find out at 1.1 of the Fremen, like, Jamis is another one. One of the Fremen's name is just Jeff. So I think it's just the thing that. And here's the thing. Even with Dunkin Idaho, people like to make fun of that. I think the thing is that because this universe is our universe, 10,000 years in the future, I think this takes place literally in, like, the year 10,000 roughly. So 8000 years in the future. The idea is that the names of people, cultures have certain types of names, but there are also just weird art like, names from history that some people have that are just like. Like how some of people in our time have, like, if you. If you show to somebody from a thousand years ago from England or whatever, the names of some of our people, some, like most of us would probably have names that they wouldn't even recognize or understand, but every now and then, they'd see a person that had a name that was like something from their, like, you know what I mean? Culture a thousand years ago.
• 40:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 40:37
  Speaker A: You get what I'm saying? So I think that's what Frank Herbert is doing with that, where sometimes there's just people with weird names that don't seem like they fit in, but are just like weird relics of the old, olden times or something. Anyways, yeah. Sorry.
• 40:54
  Speaker B: Okay, so fade Rotha, we meet him, and one of the other Benny Jeseret, Lady Margot, is after him, and we find out that he's also in the running to possibly be the messiah. Does he also get tested with the pain box and follow up question, does Lady Margot then get pregnant by him at the behest of the Bene Gesserit?
• 41:27
  Speaker A: So the pain box test, the gom Jabbar, which, the box is not called the Gom Jabbar. The needle is. But people just refer to the whole thing as the gom Jabbar. So I don't know. It's one of those complicated things. But, yes, her administering the Gom Jabbar to fade Rautha is not in the book, but I actually really liked adding that here because it does more concretely establish to the viewer, the reader, the watcher in this instance, that fade Routha is, and the movie does it in other ways, more explicitly, but it's not as explicit or obvious in the book. That fade Routha is also, like, one of the potential, you know, end results of the Benny Jesuit breathing. Eventually, it's revealed kind of towards the end of the book that that's the case. But I love the movie seeding more of that throughout, and specifically this scene, because it really immediately drives home, like, what's going on here to the viewer because we saw them do it to Paul in the first movie, and it also just very clearly juxtaposes fate. And Paul is kind of two sides of the same coin. So I really loved adding the gam jabbar test there. Not in the book. Margot Fenring, Lady Margot does seduce fade Raltha in the book in order to be impregnated by him so that they can continue the Harkonnen line, because the Benny Gesserit, their whole thing, they're eugenicists. They're all about breeding and ultimately trying to breed the cuisatz Hatterak so that they can create this superhuman that they. I actually googled, like, why did the Bene Gesserit want to create the super like, the kwisatzaterat? Cause it's not really ever explained in the book. You kind of just have to guess and assume. And the consensus seems to be, basically, so that they can create, like, a super. There were, like, two main camps of thought that I could find. One, they just want to, like, advance the human race and create, like, the superhuman. They're just eugenicists. And two, specifically, they want to do it because if they create this superhuman that can see the future and all this sort of stuff, but it's something they created, they can then control it.
• 43:27
  Speaker B: Right.
• 43:28
  Speaker A: And then they gain more power, basically, by being able to use this superhuman that they created to wield massive influence on the galaxy or whatever. So, yeah. Anyways, so we don't actually get the scene between Margot and fade Routha, where they're in her bedroom, and it's clear they're gonna have sex. But we do get a scene in the book where Margot and her husband, count Fen ring, who's not in the movie, who's another one of the associates of the emperor. They have a conversation about how she's gonna go sleep with Feyd. Ralpha to.
• 44:05
  Speaker B: How do you feel about it?
• 44:07
  Speaker A: He's fine with it. He's part of this whole thing. He's not a Benny Jesuit.
• 44:10
  Speaker B: I'm just curious.
• 44:11
  Speaker A: He's involved in the whole power structure. He's the emperor's master assassin guy, but he's this weird, bumbling old guy who pretends to have a stutter. That's a thing I didn't put in here. He pretends to have a speech impediment. But actually, what the speech impediment is, is he's speaking in code to Margot. So during conversations, he'll be like, he'll stutter, and people think he's an idiot. But he's actually, like, saying things in code to Margot, like, who's with him? It's a really interesting, cool dynamic that I kind of wish they included him in the movie, but they just cut him out, and it makes sense.
• 44:47
  Speaker B: Maybe he'll be in the next one.
• 44:49
  Speaker A: Maybe he will.
• 44:50
  Speaker B: I don't know anything about the next one.
• 44:51
  Speaker A: I don't either. So, yeah.
• 44:54
  Speaker B: So then Margo, after doing this, meets up then with, what was Benny Jezer lady again?
• 45:05
  Speaker A: Mother Mohim.
• 45:06
  Speaker B: She meets up with mother Mohim as well as Princess Aerilon, and they're talking about Feydrotha. And she describes him as being sexually vulnerable, easy to control because he's sexually vulnerable. Is that from the book?
• 45:22
  Speaker A: That is not in the book, but also very good. It was a better in the book moment for me. It's also one of the things that alludes to why the Bene Gesserit are okay with destroying House Atreides. Although in the movie, they do explicitly ask the baron in the first movie to not kill Jessica and Paul.
• 45:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 45:40
  Speaker A: And that we find out that's because they potential to be the quiz Ottarak or whatever. But they also. It's that gets complicated. Everything's complicated. So whatever. But part of it seems like part of the reason they don't want to kill Jessica and Paul is because she's Benny Jesuit, and he could be the cuisat's Hatterak, but also, ultimately, they don't, like, want him to be the cuisat's Hatterak because they can't control him. Bava. We'll get to more of that later. But part of why the emperor, and by extension, I think the Bene Jedgaran, aren't super sold on the Atreides is that they aren't easily controlled. That's part of the reason that the emperor and the Bene Gesserit have them killed, is because the Benny Jezer or the Atreides are too honorable, and they don't think they can bend them to their will. Specifically, the Benny Jesuits don't think they can bend them to the will, which, again, kind of conflicts with. Well, then why do they ask Baron Harkonnen not to kill him? It's complicated. I'm just gonna say it's complicated every time. I don't. And I just. When I say that, it means I don't know the answer. So.
• 46:36
  Speaker B: So moving forward, back with Paul and the Fremen, we run into Josh Brolin, Gurney Hallick. Gurney Halleck, who I lost track of in the first movie. Yeah, he kind of disappeared.
• 46:52
  Speaker A: He disappears. We just see him, like, kind of. Yeah, disappear.
• 46:56
  Speaker B: He resurfaces, and he is now a spice smuggler. Is that the case in the book? And also, does he know where the family stash of atomic bombs is hidden? I was not expecting there to be a family stash of atomic bombs.
• 47:13
  Speaker A: Every house does have atomics, which we'll get to here in a second. On the second part of that. But yes, he is a smuggler. He has been a smuggler smuggling spice off the planet in the intervening years, since the fall of the house Atreides. And the scene where Paul reunites with him is almost identical, where he's out on a spice mining thing, and Paul, they, like, ambush it to destroy the spice mining. And then he realizes it's gurney, and they're like, ah, they reunite and everything. So basically, that happens basically exactly the same. They do ultimately use the atomics. Like, they find them and use them. I don't remember if I will say that. So Gurney is actually against using them in the book. They use them in the book the exact same way. They use them to blow up the big wall, like the shield wall at the end, which allows the sandstorm that's coming in to, like, get in and fuck with everything. I don't remember, though, whether or not he knew where they were or if Paul knew where they were. They have access to him somehow.
• 48:09
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 48:09
  Speaker A: And I don't remember if it's ever explained in the book. It probably is. Maybe Gurney did know where they are. But anyway, so potentially, yes. But he doesn't want to use them, which is a stark difference to the movie, because in the movie, he's like, yeah, I know where they are. Let's go blow up some Harkons or whatever. But he doesn't want to use them because he's, like, super worried that if they use the atomics at all, it will violate, there's, like, an atomic agreement between all the houses that if they use the nukes, he's worried that they'll all. That all of the other houses will just shoot them with atomic bombs if they use theirs. And Paul's like, no, no, no, it's fine. The agreement says you can't kill people with the atomic bombs. We're just blowing up a wall with it. And so he thinks, and and his point is that the houses will look for any excuse not to go to all out nuclear war.
• 48:56
  Speaker B: Right?
• 48:56
  Speaker A: So if we give them the excuse of like, hey, we didn't actually kill anybody with this. We just blew up a wall. That's reason enough for them not to shoot atomic bombs at us, basically.
• 49:06
  Speaker B: Okay. Anyways, all right, all right. Really feeling the era that this book was written in. And that specifically.
• 49:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. It was written during the Cold War. Yes.
• 49:19
  Speaker B: So Paul is then forced to travel south because the Harkonnens destroy the siege tabor. And when he gets there, he immediately drinks the water of life and is not super successful.
• 49:37
  Speaker A: In doing, he falls into a coma.
• 49:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, falls into a coma, which he is brought out of by Chani's tears. Do Chani's tears bring Paul out of his Jesus coma?
• 49:53
  Speaker A: Her tears, specifically? No, but Chani is the one that brings him out of the coma. There's a lot to get into here.
• 50:00
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 50:01
  Speaker A: I like this change a lot. This is one of the biggest changes to the overall theme and narrative of the story, in my opinion. And so before we get to the specific moment of the tears and, like, what those do and blah, blah, blah in the film, this is a big change the film makes. Chani ends up acting as this force that is essentially trying to keep and pull Paul away from his quote, unquote, terrible purpose, from fulfilling the jihad or whatever, which I think really works here, because the movie also changes and makes her sort of this representative of, like, a Fremen liberation sect within the Fremen that doesn't believe in the Lisan al Ghaib superstition. They think the Fremen should free themselves, or, like, we don't need an outsider to come and free us, because the whole Lisan al Ghaib superstition that Stilgar and the other Fremen believe in is that some outsider will show up and they will deliver them from oppression or whatever. And Chani in the movie is like, this is nonsense, blah, blah, blah. In the book, she just kind of goes along with it. She doesn't really have much of an opinion. She seems to buy into it, relatively speaking, even to the point where she, like, becomes. When Jessica takes the water of life test, Chani is actually blessed as a Sayedina, as, like, a lesser mother or whatever. So that in case Jessica dies during the test, Chani can, like, take her place, basically. So Chani is, well, like, within the, like, the religion and the Benny Jesuit stuff in the book. I really like pulling her out of that and making her, like, a non superstitious woman who's like, we should save ourselves. We shouldn't rely on these outsiders.
• 51:52
  Speaker B: It feels, like, younger and more progressive.
• 51:54
  Speaker A: It does. I like that a lot. I also like that this has her acting counter to Jessica in the film. Who in the film is actively pushing Paul towards becoming the messiah? That is not really the case in the book. Jessica is not nearly as gung ho about pushing Paul into this role as she is in the film. Again, it's complicated. She's not, like, completely against. I don't even know how to describe it, but she's not the one, like, you should go like, in the movie, she explicitly is like, you should go drink the waters. You need to drink the water of life. In the book, when she finds out he did it, she's, like, really upset that he did it. It's very different. She's much more protective of Paul as a person in the book, and the film makes her more interested in him fulfilling the prophecy, essentially.
• 52:46
  Speaker B: Well, and it seemed in the movie, at least to me, my interpretation of it was that after she took the water of life, that kind of had an effect on it.
• 52:54
  Speaker A: Yes, because it does the same thing to Paul, where it basically super ignites the terrible purpose or whatever. I think that is also the case. Yeah. But even in the movie or in the book, even after she does drinks the water of life, the water of life does not have as much of an effect as it does in the movie. It is a big turning point to some extent, but it doesn't completely change their personalities like a subject.
• 53:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, that felt really stark to me.
• 53:18
  Speaker A: In the movie, which I can see some critique of, but I also think it works for what the movie's doing. So, anyways, getting back to what I was saying, I like having Jessica pushing her more in the direction of being the one pushing him towards the prophecy, because Jessica is a Bene Gesserit, and they are literally just colonizing eugenicists like Jedi. Like, that's what they are. And so I think having Chani and Jessica each represent kind of two sides of Paul's potential future works really well. It also makes Johnny a more engaging and empowered character and gives her more to do and gives her her own voice, in a way. Whereas in the book, she just kind of goes along with whatever Paul wants to do, basically. And so I like them kind of struggling over Paul, where Chani is fighting for Paul the person and Jessica is kind of fighting for Paul the prophet. And again, in the book, it's muddier. It's not that concrete divide, but I really like that in the film. The thing I really like about it on top of that is in this scene, getting back to your actual question, Chani is able to cry for him, which I really like. So the film, when she gets there, he's in the coma, and Jessica's like, you have to save him. And she says, like, why don't you do it or whatever? And I don't know if you got what was going on here, but when we find out that she cries and the tears mix with the water of life, and that essentially creates, like, the. Like, an antidote for lack of a better term. And they say, like, oh, her desert spring tears. And this is what brings them back to me. What I got from that is that Jessica is so far lost, so far down the path and lost in the sauce, and is, like, not even her anymore, that she can't even cry for her son anymore. And so when Johnny's like, why can't you do it? Or, why don't you do it? Or whatever? And she's like, no, you need to, or whatever. I think the implication there is that Jessica's, like, gone.
• 55:19
  Speaker B: Like, she literally cannot.
• 55:21
  Speaker A: She cannot cry. She could not do this because she cannot cry for her son anymore because she does not see him as her son anymore. He is palm Odib, lisa, blah, blah, blah.
• 55:30
  Speaker B: An idea.
• 55:31
  Speaker A: Yes, he is an idea. He is the prophet, which I thought was really interesting and cool. In the book, what happens is Chani, he does the water life test, falls into a coma for three weeks. Jessica calls Chani there because she's not there at the time, calls her back, and Jessica's like, I can't. I don't know what to do. I don't know what happened to him, because in the book, Jessica doesn't know what he did. She didn't tell him to take the water of life test. He just did it on his own. And she has no idea what's wrong with him. She's like, maybe he was poisoned. I don't know. I know he's alive, but I don't know what to do about it. And then Chani gets there, and she pretty quickly realizes that he drank the water of life. And in the book, it's hard to tell what she does to actually bring him out of it. Gets some of the water of life and, like, rubs it on his lip or something. And that seems to, like, revive him, but I don't understand why that revives him. I was a little confused in the book at, like, what the logistics of what was happening there were. So I really like that the movie tweaked that to make it more obvious, but also make it more thematically relevant to me. There's one little thing. So, overall, all of this, I think, is better in the movie. There's one little thing that I like in the book a lot, is that after he wakes up again because Jessica didn't tell him to do this when she finds out, also, Paul thinks it's been, like, seconds. He's like, he wakes up and he's like, I did it. I trans. And he's like, I was able to do it. He's like, I am the whatever. And they're like, you were in a coma for three weeks. He's like, really? I thought it was like seconds ago or whatever. And then Jessica says, how could you do something so foolish? And Johnny turns to him and goes, he is your son. And Jessica's just like, son of a bitch. Because they have a very adversarial relationship for different reasons. But mainly that Jessica, it's actually similar reasons as in the movie, is that Jessica doesn't see Chani as, like, worthy of Paul. He needs to marry like a, you know, for a highborn. Yeah, exactly. And specifically for political reasons and stuff like that. Yeah. So, but, yeah, I liked that exchange in the book. But overall, I really liked that change in the movie. It's one of my favorite things they did overall was the tweaking to Jessica and Chani's characters. And it kind of culminates in that scene with the water of life.
• 57:47
  Speaker B: Okay, so one of the things that Paul discovers during slash after, I was not sure on this, he takes the water of life and expands his mind. He finds out that Jessica is Baron Harkonnen's daughter.
• 58:06
  Speaker A: It's during his coma. Yeah, well, I think. Well, whatever. Yeah.
• 58:10
  Speaker B: And I was like, gross. Yes. And then he talks to her about it, and she's like, I didn't even know that. So is that the case in the book? And did she really not know?
• 58:21
  Speaker A: Yes. So she is Baron Harkonnen's daughter. Vladimir Harkonnen's daughter, and she did not know. Paul actually tells her in the book much earlier. It's actually in the first book. I think I mentioned it in our first episode that I was surprised they didn't include that because it seemed important. But I really like moving that reveal to the end here. I think it makes a lot of sense. It's a bigger gut punch here at the end because we find out that they're all Harken. It's harkens all the way down, baby. But, yeah, we find that out pretty early in the book. It's in the first book because this book, Dune, is split into three books. It's called Dune, the Prophet and Wadib. I don't know, anyways. But there's like three sections in the book. And I think we find that at the end of the first section of the book. So I liked moving it to the end. But, yeah, it's basically the same. He just figures it out or he also figures it out in a vision again, because the movie puts a little more emphasis on the water of life doing this huge thing where, as we said in the summary, where it gives him foresight or whatever. He's had that all. He's even had that before he got to Arrakis.
• 59:31
  Speaker B: I mean, I know he did, but it seemed like the, and then it.
• 59:34
  Speaker A: Gets amplified on Arrakis with the spice. The spice amplifies it. And then in the book it's explicitly described. He says that as he's been on Arrakis so long, the spice doesn't affect him as much anymore. And he's losing the sight a little bit. Like, he doesn't, he can't see the future as clearly, which he can never really see it super clearly, but it's always like a weird boiling mess of nonsense. As you know, future sight tends to be and these kind of things, but he's losing it even more. And that's kind of what prompts him to go take the water of life is to try to, like, kickstart his thing. And so the movie is kind of right in that regard. But, yeah, he figures out the Harkonnen thing, like, right after they all get killed, he has, when him and Jessica are in the tent while they're on the run in the desert, he has, like a vision, like a dream, a vision one night. And then he wakes up and he tells her. He's like, we're Harkonnens. And she's like, what?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker A: Cause she didn't know who her dad was.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker B: I do not have this question in here. So if you can't answer it, that's totally fine. Does the book talk about why she doesn't know what happened there? And also, does the baron know?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker A: The baron does not know. I don't think that's a good question. I don't know the answer to this. She doesn't know because I believe she was, like, an orphan for some reason. Like, she ends up orphaned at some point. And I don't know if that's ever explained why. But she ends up at a Bene Gesserit orphanage, basically, I think, and I don't believe Viadimir Harkman knows, but I could be wrong about that. But I don't think he does.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 1:01:13
  Speaker A: I don't think he does because it is also a revelation to fade routh at the end when Paul calls him cousin. That's also from the book that he's not aware. And I don't think Baron Harkonnen is. But he might be. I don't know. I don't know for that. Sure.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker B: Okay, well, if you know, let us know. Okay. So Paul has ascended now, I guess, and he's kind of decided to whip up the Fremen into a frenzy and get them to go to battle.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker A: Yeah. Rally his religious mob.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker B: Yes. And they have this whole thing where he can only take leadership if he kills the current leader, which is Stilgar. And he doesn't want to do that. And one of the things that he says is, do you smash a knife before battle? And I like that line. I wanted to know if it was from the book.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker A: That exact line is in the book and is a part of that big speech Paul gives. Although the book kind of combines, I think, two speeches there, but essentially, yes. And that exact line is. And he is attempting to explain to the Fremen why he won't fight Stilgar. Cause they're all like, you have to. They want him to become the leader. And they're like, you gotta fight and kill Stilgar. And he's like, I don't know. I'm not going to. I need Stilgar.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, that seems stupid.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And he. So, yeah, he's like, I'm not gonna do it. And, like, it even gets to the same thing where he's like, stilgar's like, no, we should fight. Like, let's fight. And you'll kill me. Cause you're better than me. And Paul goes, I won't. I'll let you kill me. I won't fight you. He's like, I won't do it. And then he basically is like, we can't do this. We're blah, blah, blah. And he ends the speech with this big rah rah moment where he's like, we need to stop killing each other and start killing Harkonnens. And everybody's like, hell yeah. Fuck, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker B: Hell, yeah.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker B: Okay, my next question was in all caps because this was a revelation to me. I did not know. This. Is Dune the name of the planet?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker A: Yes. Yes, it is. So this is revealed on, like, page one of the book. Oh, but I really love saving the title drop for the end of this big speech scene.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker B: Oh, they sat on that one. They saved it till, like, the end of the second movie.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker A: Dune is the native word, or the native name. The Fremen name for Arrakis. Arrakis is what the empire calls it, is what offworlders call it. But, yes, it is called Dune by the people.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker B: Okay. All right. Another line by. I keep forgetting her name. Benny. Mother Mohim.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker A: Reverend Mother Mohem.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker B: Reverend Mother Mohim, she says to Princess Aurelian, well, Princess Aurelian says something to her about, like, did you plan all of this? And she says, of course I did. How else could it have happened?
• 1:04:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker B: Is that from the book?
• 1:04:20
  Speaker A: So I think the scene is at the end in the throne room or.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker B: Something like that where they're talking about the possibility of her father losing the throne, I think.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker A: And she's like, did you plan all this? And he's like, of course I did. How else would it have happened? That exact line, again, from what I could find, not in the book, but again, captures perfectly the spirit of the Bene Gesserit and the way they have their hands and everything, everything that happens is at least somehow part of their plan. Maybe not explicitly, but, like, they usually had their fingers in it in some capacity. So I thought it was a great line. Loved it a lot better in the movie, but not in the book.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker B: Okay, so we're moving forward at this. Paul basically goads the emperor into coming to Arrakis, and he does.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker A: He sends him a note revealing he's alive and he's already there at this point. Yeah.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker B: So emperor goes, princess, I'm just gonna keep saying aurelian because I cannot remember.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker A: I like it more. I think it sounds better. So hopefully.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker B: And then they launched their whole offensive. And then in the movie, Paul comes striding in to the throne room all cool and look at me, I'm super cool, and executes Baron Harkonnen, who's already.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker A: Been incapacitated, pretty much the emperor, the sardaukar, cut his breathing apparatus and his suspension.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker B: So he's kind of just sitting there twitching, crawling on the floor. But Paul comes straight again and executes him. And fade. Rotha appears to get off on it. Is any of that from the book?
• 1:06:03
  Speaker A: No. And I guess it's time to talk about my favorite scene that isn't in the film. In this film, I mentioned in the first one, the dinner scene. And on rereading that dinner scene in the first movie, I will never not be mad that that didn't make it into the first movie because it's my favorite scene in the first half of the book. And this was one of, if not my favorite scene in the second half of the book. It's time to talk about Aaliyah again. So as I mentioned earlier, Aaliyah is a child. Yes, a toddler, like a two year old who can walk and talk like an adult. And we find out that during, when they blow up the shield wall, Paul gets a message that, like, the moment the shield wall blows up and they're about to head in and start messing everything up, they get a message from siege Tabor. One of them saying, there's been a raid. Blah, blah, it's garbled. They can't hear all of it. Some people are dead. Some people have been captured. And one of the people that has been captured is Aaliyah. She was kidnapped by the Harkonnens or by the Sardaukar, I think. And so when we get to this scene in the throne room, Paul is not here yet. This is before he's made it to, like, the throne room. It's just Baron Harkonnen is. So there's a scene in the movie where the emperor calls Baron Harkonnen in and he's like, what do you know about this Muadib? You know who he is? All that, that's this scene. That's actually the scene where Baron Harkonnen dies and he's asking him all these questions. And then he brings out Aaliyah and goes, do you know who this is? And this little two year old comes out and just starts shit talking everybody in the room. It is the funniest. I just have to read some of this, because for people who have only watched the movie, and we'll get to why this isn't in the, I understand why the movie did not do this, but, man, I wish they had. The emperor cleared his throat to speak, but the child spoke first, a thin voice with traces of a soft palate lisp, but clear nonetheless. So here he is, she said. She advanced to the edge of the dais. He doesn't appear much, does he? One frightened old fat man too weak to support his own flesh without the help of suspensers. It was such a totally unexpected statement from the mouth of a child that the baron stared at her, speechless in spite of his anger. Is it a midget? He asked himself. My dear baron, the emperor said, become acquainted with the sister of Muadibra. The sister. The baron shifted his attention to the emperor. I do not understand. Blah, blah, blah. Moving on some. The child sat down on the dais beside the throne, dangled her feet off the edge, kicking them. There was such an air of sureness in the way she appraised her surroundings. The baron stared at her kicking feet, the way they moved, the black robe, the wink of sandals beneath her feet. Da, da, da. She admits that she allowed herself to be captured. I'll explain why here in a second, because I haven't got to that point yet? Silence. And he's yelling at Baron here. Silence. The emperor roared. He pushed himself forward on his throne. Do not abuse my intelligence any long here. Longer you stand there in your foolish innocence and majesty. The old truth, Sayer said. He waved her to silence. You say you don't know about the activity we found, nor the fighting qualities of these superb people. He's talking about the fremen. The emperor lifted himself off the throne. What do you take me for, Baron? The baron took two steps back and this fake dispute with Duke Leto, the emperor purged, sinking back into his throne. How beautifully you maneuver. Maneuvered it, Majesty. What are you, silence. The old Bene Gesserit put a hand on the emperor's shoulder, leaned close to whisper in his ear. The child seated on the die stopped kicking her feet. And make him afraid. Uh? Make him afraid some more, Shaddam. I shouldn't enjoy this, but I find the pleasure impossible to suppress. Quiet, child, the emperor said. He leaned forward and put a hand on her head, staring at the baron. Is it possible, Baron? Could you be as simple minded as the true Sayer suggests? Do you not recognize this child, daughter of your ally Duke Leto? My father was never his ally, the child said. My father is dead, and this old Harkonnen beast has never seen me before. The baron was reduced to stupefied glaring. When he found his voice. It was only to rasp who I am, Aaliyah, daughter of Duke Leto and the lady Jessica, sister of Duke Paul Muadib, the child said. She pushed herself off the dais, dropping to the floor of the audience chamber. My brother has promised to have your head atop his battle standard. And I think he shall. Can you imagine a little, tiny two year old shit talking Vladimir Harkonnen? It would be incredible. It would be incredible. Be hushed, child, the emperor said, and he sank back into his throne. I do not take the emperor's orders, Aaliyah said. She turned and looked up at the old reverend mother. She knows. The emperor glanced up at his truthsayer. What does she mean? That child is an abomination, the old woman said. Her mother deserves a punishment greater than anything in history. Death. It cannot come too quickly for that child, or for the one who spawned her. The old woman pointed a finger at Aaliyah. Get out of my mind. Telepathy, the emperor whispered. He snapped his attention back to Aliyah. By the great mother. You don't understand, Majesty, the old woman said. Not telepathy. She's in my mind. She's like the ones before me, the ones who gave me their memories. She stands in my minds. She cannot be there. But she is. And that's because the water of life kind of. We'll put this in the last airbender terms. When Aang, like, communes with all of the past avatars, the reverend Mother when you do the water of life test or become a reverend mother, you commune with all the previous reverend mothers. And so because Aaliyah was in her, she got that. She got that as well. So she's like, in the mind of all the reverend mothers, blah, blah. The old woman straightened, lowered her pointing hand. I've said too much. But the fact remains that this child, who is not a child, must be destroyed. Long were we warned against such a one and how to prevent such a birth. But one of our own has betrayed us. You babble, old woman, Aaliyah said. You don't know how it was yet. You rattle on like a purblind fool. Aaliyah closed her eyes, took a deep breath, and held it. The old reverend Mother groaned and staggered. Aaliyah opened her eyes. That is how it was, she said. A cosmic accident. And you played your part in it. The reverend mother held out both hands, palms pushing the air toward Aaliyah. What is happening here? The emperor demanded. Child, can you truly project your thoughts into the mind of another? That's not how it is at all, Aaliyah said. Unless I'm born as you, I cannot think as you. Kill her, the old woman muttered and clutched the back of the throne for support. Kill her. The sunken old eyes glared at Aaliyah. Silence, the emperor said, and he studied Aaliyah. Child, can you communicate with your brother? My brother knows I'm here, Aaliyah said. Can you tell him to surrender as. As the price of your life? Aaliyah smiled up at him with clear innocence. I shall not do that, she said. The baron. I'm almost done, I promise. But it's too good. The baron stumbled forward to stand beside Alia. Majesty, he pleaded. I knew nothing of. Interrupt me once more, baron, the emperor said, and you will lose the power of interruption forever. He kept his attention focused on Alli, studying through her, studying her through slitted lids. You will not, eh? Can you read in my mind what I'll do if you disobey me? I've already said I cannot read minds, she said. But one doesn't need telepathy to read your intentions. The emperor scowled. Child, your cause is hopeless. I have yet to rally my forces, and I have but to rally my forces and reduce this planet to. It's not that simple, Aaliyah said. She looked at the two guildsmen, asked them. The guildsmen are the people from the space and guild who, like, fly the spaceships. It is not wise to go against my desires, the emperor said. You should not deny me the least thing. My brother comes now, Aliyah said. Even an emperor may tremble before Muadib, for he has the strength of righteousness and heaven smiles upon him. The emperor surged to his feet. This play has gone far enough. I will take your brother and this planet and grind them to. The room rumbled and shook around them. There came a sudden cascade of sand behind the throne, where the hutment was coupled to the emperor's ship. The abrupt flicker of tightening, the abrupt flicker tightening of skin pressure told of a wide area shield being activated. I told you, Aaliyah said. My brother comes fucking badass. So cool. And then it's amazing. And then so your question does Paul stride in and kill the baron? No. I am here to tell you this two year old child murders the baron. The baron grabs her, and she stabs him with a hidden gom Jabbar needle that she had, and he falls over, flailing all over the ground, frothing at the mouth and died. And I'm not kidding, the moment that happens, the emperor jumps up and is like, these people are insane. And runs away. He's like, what the f. Is going on? This is. It's so funny. And I again, I understand why they didn't do this, but holy cow, it's so good. Yeah, I'm sorry, grandfather, Aaliyah said, you've met the Atreides gom Jabbar. She got to her feet and dropped a dark needle from her hand. The baron fell back. His eyes bulged as he stared at a red slash on his left palm. You, you. He rolled sideways into suspensers. A sagging mass of flesh supported inches off the floor with head lolling and mouth hanging open. These people are insane. The emperor snarled. Quick, into the ship. We'll purge this planet of every one of them. It's so funny. I. Again. Okay, so here's the thing. Totally understand why the movie thought, including a talking two year old, was maybe not tonally a fit for this movie. But to that I say cowards. I was so disappointed when Aaliyah did not show up, and that scene did not play out at least somewhat similarly to that. I think what the movie does is fine, and I understand why they did it. Give your main character more of a big moment. But, man, that was the most fun I had. Reading this book was like that whole sequence, which I enjoyed reading this book a lot, but that really got me. Anyways, sorry. Moving on.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker B: Okay, so my next question we see shortly after this in the movie, Gurney confront Rabban.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker B: And it seems like they're going to have a big fight, but then Gurney kind of just dispatches him really quickly and easily.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker A: Is that what happened in the book again, no. And this is another decision that I not sure I like. So the end of this movie, I was loving this movie, and I still ultimately really liked it. And I. We'll get to it. These are like the two changes. Noah, Leah, and then this and what it sets up for the end, where it's, like, my least favorite parts. But I talked about in the first episode, there's this big setup early in the book between Gurney Halleck and Rabban, because Rabban killed Gurney Halleck, Alec's, like, sister, and is responsible for the scar on his face. They've had this history that we don't really know much about, but Gurney mentions it every now and then, and he has this vendetta against Rabban. And I had joked about how I could tell. See, I talked a lot in the first episode about how this felt. So Game of Thrones to me and how clearly Game of Thrones was inspired by a lot of this. And this reminded me of, like, the clean bowl with the Hound and the whatever. It was actually kind of crazy to me when I read it the first time. And this time again, Rabban just dies off screen. In the book, we find out later that he's dead, but we don't see it happen. We don't know who kills him. He's just in the fighting somewhere. He dies. This is important because when we get to the final scene at the end where Paul fights Feyd Rautha, in that scene, Gurney wants to kill Feyd Rautha because he tells. Because he didn't get to kill Rabban. And he's like, you told me I could kill Rabban. I didn't get to kill Rabban. I get to, can I kill, can I fight Feyd Rautha and kill him? And, like, at the end here, and then Feyd calls for a Conley, which is like a. Basically like an honor duel or whatever. And Paul could have Gurney be, like, his champion or whatever, but he doesn't let him do it. And Gurney is furious about this in the book. He's very annoyed that Paul won't let him fight. Fade Ralta. Because he didn't get to kill Rabban. He didn't get to kill, really anybody. Everybody is like, Paul, do not fight. Feydrautha, this is stupid. Don't do this. Let Gurney do it. And Paul's like, no, I have to do this. And to me, that's a big moment in the book that seals the fate. Paul's fate.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker A: Is he turns down the wishes of one of his best friends and mentors, who he has promised this thing to. And he does it kind of out of pride, ego, whatever. And to me, that's the end, because right after he makes that decision, when he goes to start fighting fade Rautha. He has this vision and realizes no matter what happens at the end of this fight, the future is sealed. The jihad will happen. And they don't ever use the word term jihad in the movie, but that's how they often refer to, like, the holy war that is coming in Paul's name in the book. And he realizes if he dies, he becomes a martyr. His people go out and wreak havoc on the universe. If he wins, he becomes God emperor. And same thing happens, no matter what happens. But it's the moment he gets into that fight where he realizes that. And to me, that signals that that is, like, maybe the turning point. Where had he allowed Gurney to fight Feyd Routha, maybe this all could have been avoided. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But the thing that's super interesting to me is that by in the movie having Gurney kill Rabban, it takes away all the weight from that scene later. Yeah, because Gurney in the movie does ask.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, he does say, like, oh, let me be your champion.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker A: But Paul's like, nah, but it doesn't have any weight behind it because there's nothing. And again, it's been set up a lot more in the book than it was in the movie two. And again, I just really liked in the book that it felt like, oh, this is the moment where he really. He's fucked up a lot of different ways, whatever, over the course of the book. But this felt like such a concrete point where it's like, yeah, your pride, your ego, whatever pushed you over, and you have now essentially become, you know, you've become the messiah, the prophet, no matter what happens here. Where had you let Gurney fight this battle for you? Maybe it wouldn't have gone that way, but in the movie, he doesn't need to let him fight him because he killed Rabban. Who cares? Like, he got to do the thing. Now I get why the movie did this because I was disappointed initially reading the book, like, oh, we don't get to see Gurney. Cause they're setting it up like, ah. I was like, oh, we're gonna get this big showdown between Gurney and Rabban. And then. So the movie gives us that kind of. It is very quick.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker A: Which the idea is that Rabban's, like, mostly talk. He's not nearly as powerful or strong as he pretends to be. But, yeah, I didn't really like that. It felt to me like cheap fan service for, like, somebody who hadn't really thought about why Gurney doesn't kill Rabban. It just felt like, well, we've been setting this up and people want to see this because gurney. Yeah, let's see the gurney fight rabban. But it means so much more for the final scene. And so I didn't like having him kill him there. Anyways, that's my take on that. Sorry. I'm going to try to be less verbose, failing.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker B: But during this confrontation scene, does Paul get to use the voice capital v on Mother Mohi?
• 1:22:07
  Speaker A: Yes. They have a much longer conversation in the book where he berates her for a while, but ultimately it does end. There's a great exchange where Jessica, Mother Mohim, tells Jessica, silence that boy. And Jessica says, silence him yourself. Which is funny, but at the end of their conversation, he does just yell silence at her. And it literally, exactly like the movie, like, knocks her backwards and the people behind her catch her, and it just kind of signifies that he is, you.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker B: Know, ascended or whatever, and then follow up question to that which you've kind of alluded to. But what exactly is she so upset about here? Because is this not just, like, one of many ways that their machinations could have come to fruition? Is she not getting what she wanted?
• 1:23:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm gonna preface this all with I think. Cause I don't. This is where it gets confusing or complicated again, which is code for. I don't know. I think the idea is that Paul is not the Cuisatz Hatteracht that she specifically wanted. Early in the book. She's very mad at Jessica for choosing to have a boy. They told her she had. Her plan for her was to have girls because the girl can't be whatever, can continue the line, but don't have a boy. And she has a boy because she wants, I think in the book, she has a boy, and maybe in the movie, too, to create an heir for Duke Leto, essentially, but also by the proxy of that, she creates the potential cuisatract. And the movie makes this a bit more explicit, it, because. So, again, I think the idea is that she's mad Jessica chose to have a boy and that this wasn't really the specific plan that the Benny Jesuit were working on. She kind of went against their plan by having this boy. The movie makes that a bit more explicit with some of the scenes earlier where her and Margot and Arulan are discussing fade and how they have this other option and how this is a better option because fade is more easy to be controlled and that sort of thing. And so she essentially throws her backing mother, Reverend mother Mohim puts her backing behind fade, Routha and the emperor, who also possesses the genetics that they want, and they feel like they can actually control him where they don't feel like they can control Paul, I think, is the idea. I think.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. Cause she just seems, like, really upset about all of this, and I'm like, you did this?
• 1:24:42
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker B: Okay. That makes sense.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker A: Which, to be fair, that sentence could also apply to, like, every character in this book, which is like, you seem really mad about this, but this is kind of your fault. Like, that every single character is. Yeah, for the most part.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker B: Does Paul almost lose to feyed Rautha in their duel?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker A: Kind of. They have a very intense duel in the throne room. Plays out very similarly. Couple things about this scene, mostly movie. Nailed it. A couple things that I thought that I liked better in the book. Here. In the book, they stripped down to their underwear. I mentioned this with the Jama stool in the last one. It's just like what they do when they duel. They strip down to their underwear.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker B: Piggy.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker A: And fade is wearing some sort of chainmail underwear thing that has a hidden poison needle in the hip, which I thought was fun that we don't see in the movie. And at one point, he gets on top of Paul and is trying to stab him with the hip needle. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker A: But Paul is able to, like, accidentally distract him. And this is. I gotta set this up a little bit. It. He yells. I will not say it. And fades. Like, what? And it distracts him just enough that Paul's able to get the upper hand. And then he flips him over and literally stabs his. He stabs him kind of like he did to the bear. And he stabs him, like, up through the chin into his brain. In the book, before the fight, Jessica comes over to him and goes, hey, by the way, he very likely will have been prepared by the Benny Jesuit. They do these things, I guess, with certain people or whatever in certain positions. They prepare them with, like, code words that if you say the code word, it will, like, basically, like, render them not unconscious, but, like, completely subservient or something like that. They basically essentially have something, like, magic trigger words for some people that they have fused into, like, whatever. And he's like, no, I will win this fight the right way. Like, he's like, I'm not gonna use this, like, cheat code, basically. And so he yells, I will not say it. And that allows him to win. But even though he didn't say it, him yelling I will not say it kind of did the same thing, which is fun. Again, the movie always or the book always does that, where it's like, regardless of what he tries to do, it still basically does the same thing. He cannot escape the destiny that is before him, which is kind of ultimately the point of a lot of it, it seems like. But we talked about. Just real quick on this scene in the prequel, we talked about how I read a thing that said that Austin Butler and Timothy Chalamet did all of the fighting in this scene.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker B: Yes. And we were like, surely not.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker A: Surely not. And upon watching it, I think they did, like, 99% of it. There is one shot where Paul does, like, this flipping back flip.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker B: Flipping. He does, like, a triple flip in midair.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker A: That one feel pretty confident. Wasn't Timothy shall make. Maybe it was. I don't know. Maybe he. It's possible, but I bet that was not him. But the rest of it, I will say. I think it was mostly them.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker B: So I could buy that it was mostly them. The triple midair flip was giving a little more Cirque du Soleil, a little more stuntman than I believe Timothy Chalamet is capable of. But I don't know. The. I don't know.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker A: I've never seen. I guess I'll say this. I've never seen him do that in real life, like, for sure. But I've also never not seen him do it.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker A: Or. You know what I mean? I've never. You know, it's. I don't know.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker B: So my last question here in this section is basically just. Is the ending the same? So we end the movie with Paul. Basically, he wins the throne from the emperor, but now he's about to be in a war with all of the great houses because they don't like that.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker B: They denied his ascendancy. Yeah. And Chani is also mad about it. And, like, storms off by herself. And that's where we leave off in this movie. Does the book end similarly?
• 1:28:47
  Speaker A: Similarly. So the emperor does concede and allows Paul to marry Princess Irilon. The war with the great houses, though, is not mentioned. The book literally just ends, like, exactly after he basically asks everybody what they want. And he basically tells the emperor, you're gonna give me all of the Chom's money, which the Chom is the committee. I don't know what it stands for, but it's basically the, like, the merchant guild of all the houses. He's like, you're gonna give me all their money. Like, all of it. And the emperor's like, okay, and he's gonna give this money to all the different people. He's like, Stilgar, you're in charge of Arrakis. This is your thing now. I'm the emperor. You get to be in charge of Arrakis. Jessica, you're gonna do this, blah, blah, blah. He tells Emperor Shaddam that he's gonna get to go be sit on the throne on Seleucusa Secundus or whatever, which is the prison planet that the Sardaukar are from. He's like, you're going to the prison planet. Fuck you. And all this other stuff. He basically just asks everybody what they want and tells them, oh, Gurney, Hal gets to go take over the fiefdom on Kaladan. Basically, he does all that, and then the book just immediately ends in that throne room right there. We don't find any of the fallout from any of this. His fear was that his actions would lead to his armies marching through the galaxy, killing millions of people. So I assume that does take place in the future books and that this movie is basically just setting that up. But as I said, I have not read Dune Messiah or any of the other ones, so I have no idea. But it's not mentioned in this movie.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker B: Based on the title, I would assume that that's where things are heading.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, I assume so too, but again, I don't know. I have not read. Read him. Chani does not storm off in the books, as I've said. She kind of just does whatever Paul wants in the book. I really like this change again in the movie. It coincides with the rest of the change to her character in the film. And I really love that the movie ends on Chani. The final shot of the film is Chani just furious about this. She calls a sandworm, and she's waiting for it. And she's just furious, tears pouring down her face. In the book, she just accepts her role as concubine, and Jessica actually gives her this really interesting speech. I will give the book credit for this. I like what the movie did with Johnny and stuff, and I'll be interested where that goes because it's so different than how the book is, because it seems like they're gonna have to really change things. Maybe not. I don't know.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker B: I mean, you would think.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker A: You would think, though. But Jessica does give this really interesting speech, and it's the final words of the book, not counting, like, the appendixes and stuff, which there are the appendices, of course, there are quite a bit of. Quite a few appendices and whatnot. But she gives her the speech about her role, and I just have to read it because, again, it was not at all what I was expecting to be the final paragraph of the book or whatever. So I just want to quickly read this. Jessica nodded, feeling suddenly old and tired. She looked at Chani. And for the royal concubine? No title for me? Chani whispered. Nothing. I beg of you. Paul stared down into her eyes, remembering her suddenly as she had stood with once, with little Leto in her arms. We'll get to that. Their child now dead in this violence. We'll get to that. I swear to you now, he whispered, that you'll need no title. The woman over there will be my wife and you but a concubine. But because this is a political thing, and we must weld peace out of this moment, enlist the great houses of the Landsrod. We must obey the forms. Yet the princess shall have no more of me than my name, no child of mine, nor touch, nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire. So you say now, Chani said. She glanced across the hall or across the room at the tall princess. So she's not, like, thrilled about this anyways. And then Jessica turns to her. Do you know so little of my son? Jessica whispered. See that princess standing there, so haughty and confident? They say she has pretensions of a literary nature. Let us hope she finds solace in such things. She'll have little else. A bitter laugh escaped Jessica. Think on it, Chani. That princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine, never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine, history will call us wives. And that's the final line of the book, which is, I think, interesting and kind of compelling.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker B: Not entirely sure what to make of it? Yeah. Interesting.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker A: It's because Jessica was a concubine her whole life. And so there's this. I think it's kind of this thing, this final moment where Jessica finally kind of bonds with Chani in this way or something like that, which, again, I thought was interesting and kind of compelling, but I still like the movie's version better. All right, those were all the questions for wise that in the book, it's time to find out what was lost in adaptation.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker B: Just show me the way to get out of here, and I'll be on my way.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker A: Yes, yes. And I want to get unlost as soon as possible.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker B: Okay, I do have several questions here. First off, does the book tell you anything about how the Fremens survived on Arrakis before they had all of the technology that they have, like, the still suits and the stuff that seems like, very instrumental in surviving on Arrakis?
• 1:34:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, a little bit. We find this out a little bit in the book, but I also did some Wikipedia, some dune wiki searching here. So the Fremen are actually descendants of a culture called the Zinzuni Wanderers, who are actually descendants of a group of Muslims from Earth, specifically sunni Muslims from Earth. They wandered the galaxy. I say galaxy. I don't actually know how big of a. I don't know if it's galaxy or solar system. I don't know. Clearly not solar system.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker B: I mean, they do. What's a rack of Mars?
• 1:34:33
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker B: They do, like, internal stellar travels. Yeah.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker A: It could be even, like, beyond galaxy. I don't know. So, yeah, it could be universe. I don't know. Anyways, they wandered the universe galaxy, trying to escape persecution by the empire for, like, a long time. So they had plenty of technology already. And eventually they get to Arrakis, and that's where they stay and set up and basically make their homeworld. And I believe the implication is that they invented the still suits fairly quickly after arriving on Arrakis. They didn't have them right away, but they didn't. They weren't. Like, their people weren't born on. Like, they didn't.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 1:35:12
  Speaker A: They weren't.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker B: So there was no, like, pre technology era, no of living.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker A: They were able to space travel to Arrakis.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker A: And then, so when they got there, and there were also some bases there from the wiki, it said there were, like, some old empire bases there that had some technology that they were also able to use and, like, do stuff with Frank Herbert supposedly didn't really go into any of this and didn't care about it. It. I believe his son did in some of the other books about, like, that back that history. That far back. But, yeah, supposedly they came there. Point being, the Fremen haven't been on Arrakis forever.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker B: Right.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker A: They came there with technology and then developed technology to adapt to live on Arrakis or Dune, I guess.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker B: Fair enough.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker A: And from what it sounds like, there were no people there before. Like, there's no indigenous population of Arrakis other than the sandworms.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker B: Poor.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker A: And the other animals and stuff. But, like, there's no human.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker B: I'm team Sandhorm.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. There's no human indigenous culture from Arrakis. But the Fremen are the closest to an indigenous culture. Cause they've been there forever, essentially.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker B: All right, what is the harken and oil bath about, dare I ask?
• 1:36:20
  Speaker A: So that's not mentioned in the book. I read that this is a thing that appears, at least to some extent, in the 1984 film, but really, I think it's just, like, a visually interesting and gross way to showcase their decadence. Like, it's. But it's not anything in the book. It's not anything ever mentioned. It's just a creepy, weird, gross thing to have him do.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker B: Okay. All right. Do all of the Fremen know how to ride the sandworms, or is it just, like, some of them? And then I had a follow up question about whether they were directing the sandworms or if they were just kind of along for the ride. But since they use them for, like, long distance travel, I guess they must be so.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker A: Yes, all Fremen eventually learned to ride sandworms. That is how one of the things that makes you an actual Fremen, like, one of their rites of passage or whatever, is mounting a sandworm for the first time. And it is mentioned in the book that they train on small captive worms. Like, they raise small. Like, they have the one for the water of life that we'll talk about at some point. Point. Or hearing a couple questions. But, yeah, so they train. And they meant in the book they mentioned, Paul trained writing on small, like, captive sandworms. And this. But this is his first time writing a wild one. And, like, mounting a wild one. And, yes, they do control the worms and are able to steer them. And it makes so much sense how it works. Like, reading it, I was like, yeah, no, that's how that would work. Like, if you were gonna ride a giant sandworm, which sounds ridiculous. That's how it would work. But they. What they do. Is they literally. So the hooks, they have. I thought it was so fascinating reading this. This is the kind of stuff that gets my brain going. I love it because it feels so well realized, the sandworms. Because one of the other questions you didn't ask, which I was actually expecting you to ask here, is, like, why don't the sandworms, like, go underground? And just.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker B: I did wonder why they don't go underground and just.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. So the hooks aren't just to latch on. And the movie shows this a little bit, but you don't. They don't explain it, but you do see it. When they use the hooks, they pull up the edge of, like, the armor plates, basically. And when they pull up the edge of the armor plates with the hooks, it exposes the soft, like, tissue, and, like, there's, like, some, like, membrane under there.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker B: Mm hmm.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker A: And when that's exposed, the earthworm or the earthworm worm, the sandworm can feel it, and it won't go underground because the sand would get in there. And not only does it not go underground, it rolls the side where the exposed part is to the top so that it's not getting hit by sand.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker A: So when the fremen hook on and latch their hooks on it, the sandworm naturally rolls them to the top, and that's also how they steer. Cause then if they hook a different part of it and pull open, like, on the right side, it pulls that open. It will then roll that part to the top, which then turns the worm.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker A: Do you get what I'm saying?
• 1:39:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker A: It makes so much sense to me that it's, like, kind of mind blowing that I was like, no, yeah, that's exact. Yeah. And beyond that, they actually, like, work in concert, and it was one of the things the movie didn't showcase a really. That much that I thought was really cool. Like, when they're driving them, it's not just one person. Like, they. When they're driving a big one, they, like, multiple people work in unison, where, like, they signal each other, and one will pull apart here, and then it'll start to turn, and then they let go, and then the other person pulls, and they, like. So they have to, like, communicate with each other, kind of, like, sailing a ship or something.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker B: Right.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker A: And, like, pull the plates in the right way to steer them and, like, turn them and stuff.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker B: Interesting.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker A: So that's how they do it. And again, I was blown away because I was like, yeah, no, that makes sense to me. That, like, seems like it would work were this a real thing. I don't know. I thought that was super cool.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker B: Okay. And now here is where my beef with this. This world building begins. And I said to you last night after we finished watching the movie that I had a burning question.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker B: Because I don't think that I did not notice that we conveniently skipped over how they get off of the giant fucking deathworms. And I need to know how that works, because I'm betting it doesn't look nearly as badass as getting on the giant fucking deathworms. So how does that work? How do they get off of them?
• 1:41:01
  Speaker A: There's two ways described in the book. One, they literally just jump off it. They just jump off the side and roll in the sand. Like, they just, like, they just jump off it. Or the other way that is mentioned, they ride them until they're literally worn out, and it just stops, and then they all get off. And it just sits there and, like, rests and recuperates. And they call another one and then ride that one until it gets tired.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker A: So if they need to get off earlier, they literally just jump off. Or they ride it until it's exhausted and it stops, and then. Then they get off.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker B: Okay, now follow up question. What about the litters? Because at the point when Jessica travels south, she's, like, heavily pregnant. And you cannot convince me that a heavily pregnant woman jumped off the side of an earthworm. Sandworm moving at a thousand miles per hour through the desert.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker B: I do not buy that. You can't convince me of that.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker A: I assume in that instance, they would just drive it in circles until it got too tight.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker B: So you're just stuck on the worm until it wears itself.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker A: I would assume that's a fair point. I had not thought about that, but that is a fair point. But they do specifically mention that there is a thing where they say they will ride them until they're exhausted. And they say they go quiet, quiet, tense upon the sand, and then they get off, and it just sits there and, like, rests, like, sleeps or whatever, until it, like, regains its energy, and then it fucks off or whatever. Like, they don't kill them. They just ride them until they're too tired to keep going.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker A: And so I assume that's what they would have to do in that instance. See?
• 1:42:48
  Speaker B: And I feel like. I felt like the movie was hoping that I wouldn't notice that, but I did.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker B: And I'm gonna be honest. I have heard a lot of, like, glowing things about the depth of the world building in this one. Feels like a pretty big hole.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker A: I disagree with me.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker B: I disagree with you.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker A: To me, it made perfect sense. They're like, yeah, we ride them until they're tired, and then they just stop, and then we just get off. I don't know. I mean, that makes sense.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker B: I mean, I'm not gonna say that it doesn't make sense, but, like, it doesn't make sense to me. With the litters and, like, the setup of how they use the worms to all travel at once. That doesn't make sense to me.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker A: Okay. Sure.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker A: I disagree, but I don't have an argument. Yeah, sure.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker B: Also, it seems really mean to the worms.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that I can see if you want to argue that it seems kind of cruel or something like that. Sure. I could see that argument.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker B: All right, well, speaking of being mean to the worms, did they kill that baby sandworm?
• 1:43:59
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker B: I don't like that. I'm not okay with that.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker A: Yeah. So drowning a sandworm is how the water of life is created. They mention that in the, in the book, but it's only mentioned they don't actually show it. I did like the scene that they actually showed how that worked and how that happened and had this, like, temple where they do it. But, yeah, they, they do kill them and. Yeah. You know, there, it is a. A religious group that does essentially. It's essentially like a. Like a, like a sacrifice. Like a religious sacrifice kind of thing.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker B: All right.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, again, yeah, it is. They also murder their leaders to take like that. You know, it is a fair. It is a group of. Yeah, there it is a. Yeah, that kind of like honor, culture, religious kind of tribe.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker B: I mean, I would. But, yes, that at least the leader has, like, a fighting chance.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker A: Right. But, yeah, but again, yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker A: This is the thing, like a lot of religions do or did. I guess not as many do it anymore.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker B: But we see, when the Harkonnens are taking the siege to boar, we see them burning some birds that, like, roost in there. And I didn't remember, like, that was. I felt like that was the first time we saw those birds. Is there anything more about that in the book?
• 1:45:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, actually, kind of, but they're not birds, which I thought was interesting because in the book, the Fremen actually keep bats as pets. Interesting that they called Chilago. So my last name, Cielago, I don't remember. I don't know how it's pronounced, but it's spelled Cielago. And they're like messengers, basically. They use bats as messengers. We see one in the first half of the book. I think Jamas might or no, stilgar might have one. I don't know. They, like, feed them, like, they spit water into their mouths and stuff, but they use them as messengers. But those were clearly birds.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker B: Very clearly birds.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker A: So I assume that's what they're going for. But it was very strange that they didn't decide to do bats because it's explicitly mentioned that they have bats in the. In the book. So I don't know. Know.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker B: I mean, bats does make more sense for, like, the cave areas that they. But maybe less sense for a desert. I don't know.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker A: That's what I was thinking.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker B: Like, maybe deserts.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker A: That's kind of what I was thinking was, like, maybe it doesn't make sense for the desert.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, maybe there are desert bats. I don't actually know.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker A: I have no idea.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker B: A final question here, because this popped into my head during, like, the final battle when they're using the giant sandworms to, like, launch an offensive. Can you even kill a giant sandworm? It feels like it would be hard.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker A: You can kill it with water, for one. But yeah, which will be tough on Arrakis.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker B: There's not nearly enough water.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, but yeah, you can kill it with Arrakis or I assume with enough firepower. So, like, nukes would probably do it lays guns, which is what lasers are called in the book, in the Dune.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker B: Universe because we see them use those on the spice harvesting thing several different.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker A: Times throughout the movie. We see lays guns used. There are all kinds of different weapons in the books with different rules and stuff. It was part of the world building. One of my notes is that, that I had for better in the movie is I was kind of glad that they skipped all the weird rules related to the weapons. I say rules. There's really, like, the main one is that lays guns are actually, like, not really used on rack as much. And shields aren't either. And they just kind of ignore. Well, they talk about the shields thing. But anyways, the lays guns, if you shoot a shield, like, the thing Paul wears, like, all the people wear the little personal shields. They also have those for vehicles, like the. When Chani shooting rockets at that one has, like, a shield on it. So they have shield generators. And if you shoot one of those shields with a laze gun, it literally causes a feedback that, like, causes a massive explosion both on the shield generator and the laze gun shooting it. So like, lays. Guns really don't get used almost at all in the book because of that.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker B: Like, a bad idea.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I thought it made sense to maybe just kind of ignore that and used whatever weapons you thought were coolest for a given scene in the movie. Like, I like in the book, the world building of those weird little rules and stuff. I think that's fun, but in the movie, it would be tedious to explain, and so just use whatever's coolest looking. I was like, that's fine. Like, whatever you want for that scene, just use it. I was perfectly fine with that change for the film.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker B: Can I actually ask one last question? I did not have this written down, so maybe you can't answer it, but I'm a little confused about, like, so we kind of talked about, like, the Fremen wanting to turn Arrakis into, like, a paradise, and then Paul has the vision of the ocean on Arrakis. Would that not simply destroy Arrakis?
• 1:49:03
  Speaker A: So they specifically, in the book, talk about how they will make sure to keep big swaths of desert, like earth. Like, have the Saharaans, like, have parts of the desert that will exist for the sandworms and for the spice and stuff like that. That basically their goal is to transform it maybe not into something close to earth, but something closer to earth equivalent or whatever, where there are paths, there are big areas of plants and plant life and rain and stuff, but that there are also climates that are just desert as well. So they're very in tune with the environment, and they've done lots of study, and they're very, like, which the movie eventually does a pretty good job of establishing, is that initially they seem like very kind, just primitive people. But you see, like, a lot of the technology and stuff you have, and they are not at all like primitive people. They are very intelligent and know a lot about. And not only intelligent, but have a lot of, like, done a lot of research and have all this sort of information about the planet and stuff like that, and know they're very in tune with what the planet needs and how to kind of get it to a place where they can have green spaces and parts of it that are inhabitable and, like, luscious and nice, but also still have the desert. The desert for the worms and all that sort of stuff. So.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker B: Okay. All right.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker A: Again, that's what it says in the book. I mean, you know. Yeah, that's the idea. All right. Those are all of Katie's questions. It's time to find out what I thought was better in the book you like to read? Oh, yes, I love to read. What do you like to read?
• 1:50:47
  Speaker B: Everything.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker A: We find out very early on a little thing that I thought was fun, that Jamis plays the balisette, which is the instrument that Gurney plays, which is kind of like a guitar type sitar kind of thing. And I just thought that was a nice little thing where he kills of humanizing Jamus a little bit. And it makes Paul kind of think about and worry that he'll ultimately be responsible for Gurney's death as well, because he thinks of Gurney when he sees the ballast and stuff like that. After Jamas body gets converted or gets the water taken out of it, Paul gets it because he killed him. They give him, like. But they don't get the water goes into the big reservoir they have, but he gets water counters, which is, like, their currency, essentially, and he doesn't want them. He doesn't know what to do with them. So he gives. He's like, can you. He gives them to Chani. He's like, can you carry these for me or can you hold these for me? And then they're all, like, giggling at him. And then he's like, what? And then he finds out later that it was. It's like a courting thing to, like, give your loved one, like, a. To have your loved one carry your water counters or whatever, which I thought was funny. They also have this really cool device in the book that when they. The big reservoir they have in the siege, when they add water to it, in the book, they pour it through this, like, electronic device that counts how much water goes through it. So they have a perfect measurement of how much water they have, which I thought was kind of cool. They also have that measurement in the book. But I just really liked this device. They, like, pour it through and has, like, a little counter on it that, like, tells them how much water is going. I just thought that was kind of clever and fun. They also have this cool tech. They describe at one point, again, as I was talking about, they hit. They're, like, very advanced, like, inventors and stuff like that. They invented this, like, plastic stuff that it's like plastic stones, essentially, that they, when they plant, because they've actually are already in the process of terraforming Arrakis. There are places on Arrakis with plants and stuff like that in certain areas, and they plant them, and they put these special stones. They invented that do this thing where they. They get hot during the day, and then they cool down at night and condense. And then water forms on them, and it's like a self watering system for the plants or whatever, which I thought was cool. Just little things like that. Again, in the world building. That was really cool. I talked about the count and his humming speaking tick, which is a code speak with Margo, which I thought was fun. Let's talk about Thufir hawat, who does not appear in this movie at all. He's the mintat from the first one. Mintats are like human calculators. The guy with the little line on his lip.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker B: Oh, who had the umbrella?
• 1:53:30
  Speaker A: Yes. That's super hawat. He is actually a pretty big player in this book and is not in the movie at all in this one. In the book, he gets captured by the baron and basically goes up and ends up working for the baron. And the baron poisons him and then constantly feeds him the antidote so that if he ever leaves, he will die from not getting the antidote. And then Hawad ends up using his position to attempt to slowly kind of work against the baron and the emperor to get revenge. Ultimately, at the end, he shows up in the throne room with Paul and dies in Paul's arms. Paul comes to him and is like, because he doesn't know if he's a traitor or if he's really working for the baron or what. And Thufir comes up to him, and he's like, if you're gonna kill me, kill me. Because Thufir has, like, a poison needle, and he doesn't do it. He's like, no, I'm always in your service. And, like, dies in Paul's arms because he hasn't been getting the antidote or whatever, and proving his loyalty to Paul or whatever. Totally fine with cutting all this for the movie. Totally understand why you would. It's not really relevant. It's all like, subplot. Subplot stuff. Yeah, I did find it interesting in the book, but I get cutting it. But again, I enjoyed it. So there's a great Benny Gesserit saying in the book that I was kind of blown away. I didn't know this was from this book. I say from this book, but it's a specific sentence that I was kind of blown away was in this book. And it's an old Benny Gesserit saying that is, and I think mother Moeem says this to Jessica or somebody at some point. Do not count a human dead until you've seen his body. And even then you can make a mistake. It reminded me of the thing people always talk about with, like, Game of Thrones, like, modern tv of, like, they're not dead until you see the body. Yeah, like, that's. If you don't see them actively die on screen, just assume they're not dead. And that Benny Jezerate have that same rule. Apparently, after him and Chani have been together for a while and we do the time jump, Paul's kind of reminiscing on some of the stuff that has happened during the time jump, and one of the things he thinks about is how Chani would, like, fight and kill people who were coming to challenge Paul. She would just be like, nah. And it's so funny. Paul's like, what are you doing? Like, stop doing that. Like, I have to fight my own battles or something. He says something like that, and she literally says the words to him, I do not play games, which I just thought was very funny. When he finally reunites with Gurney. Him. And he brings Gurney back to the siege to meet everybody. And him and Stilgar, he. He introduces Stilgar and Gurney to each other, and he's, like, really wants them to be friends, but they're, like, very similar people and, like, have played similar roles in his life, and they're very clearly jealous of each other's relationship with Paul. And I was hoping to see a little bit of that in the movie. It wasn't. It's fine, but it wasn't there. I like that in the book. Speaking of Gurney, he actually finds out that Jessica is still alive at this point, once he reunites with them and is just it, furious about it because he still thinks Jessica is the traitor that was responsible for selling out the Atreides to the baron. And he thinks Paul just doesn't realize it or doesn't know. And at this point, Paul's very aware, knows all this, but he doesn't want to tell Paul. He wants to get her and then expose it to Paul. So he breaks into her room at one point and holds her at knife point and is threatening to kill her. And Paul comes in and is able to eventually talk him out of it and explains, like, no, it was doctor Yue blah blah blah, all this sort of stuff. And then once he eventually convinces him, after Gurney is convinced that it wasn't Jessica, he, like, drops his knife and he stands there, and he pulls open his shirt, and he's like, just kill me. Stab me through my heart. And this is literally right after the scene where Stilgar was like, you have to kill me to ascend, to be the leader. And Paul goes, must I go through this with every man, I need. He's like, are you all just gonna keep telling me to kill you? He's so, like, done with it. He's like, I'm not killing you. Just stop being an idiot. And then my last note for better in the book here is a little detail that I thought is very funny. The Fremen train their children that after a battle. The Fremen children, they don't fight in the battle. Depending on how old they are, they fight fairly young. But the very young go out after the battle and they go around and kill the wounded. Oh, and drain them of their water. Or mark them for water. Mark them for water recovery. And after the big battle at the end, Jessica comes in and is like, where's Aalyah to Paul? And Paul's like, she's out killing the wounded and marking them for water recovery. And Jessica goes, what? She's like, very not thrilled about that, which I thought was funny. All right, let's go ahead and talk about stuff I thought was better in the movie. My life has taught me one lesson, Hugo, and not the one I thought it would. Would happy endings only happen in the movies? I really liked having them being heading back to the siege in the opening of the film. In the book, they're already there at the point where the duel with Jamus happens. And so I liked having them heading back there because it allows us to have the opening fight scene with the Harkonnen people. And that opening fight scene is really cool. It's the one they shot partially during a partial eclipse or whatever. That's that cool shot where they'll, the Harkonnen soldiers go floating up that cliffside. And I just thought it was a lot of fun. And I liked adding that scene. I thought it made a lot of sense to cut out Hera. And there's another main character, I say main major secondary character named Hera who is Jamas's wife widow at this point. And in the rules of the Fremen, Paul is now responsible for her because he murdered, defeated her husband in battle or whatever. And she has two sons. One of them is Jammus's and then one of them is her son from a previous marriage that Jamas murdered the husband of. Yeah, but they're like, do you accept her as wife or as servant? Because he can choose. And he accepts her as a servant because he's like, I don't know you. I don't want to marry you. He's like, I don't know. But he does say, like, can I change my mind, he's like, can I. If I accept her as a servant now, like, can I. I accept her as a wife? Later he goes, yeah, you got a year to figure it out. And he's like, all right, I accept her as servant. And when he accepts her as servant, hera's, like, super mad. And she's like, I'm still young. Like, she's like, why don't you want me? Or whatever? And it's. Anyways, because she's ultimately, she's just worried that he's gonna, like, get rid of her, and then she's not gonna have, like, you know, this weird. This old honor culture thing. It's very messy and complicated, but she ends up being kind of an interesting character. Later, she comes to care for Aaliyah a lot and becomes kind of friends with Jessica, and she looks out for Aaliyah, but she also is really. She protects Aaliyah, but everybody else, all the rest of the Fremen don't like Aaliyah. Cause she's this little weird two year old who talks like an adult, and they think she's a demon or whatever. And Hara's trying to convince. He's like, I don't know what to tell people anyways, but she's an interesting character. I think it makes sense to cut her, and this is easier and cleaner to not have her in there. I like not just doing the two year time jump. I enjoyed that a little bit in the book, but I think it makes a lot of sense to give Paul and Chani additional time to grow their relationship on screen. Because in the book, it's really just like, they meet, they have a couple scenes together, and then we time jump, and they've been married and have a kid together. It's like, okay. And I also like seeing some of the testing period of Paul becoming a Fremen. Her teaching him the ways of the Fremen, him earning his name over time instead of just immediately getting it after the Jama stool. It makes his journey and then ultimately his downfall even sadder. And again, in the book, we just skip a lot of that. So I liked seeing some of it, and some of the raids on the spice factories and all that stuff is a lot of fun. Specifically the one raid where they go on that one spice miner I thought was super cool, where they're, like, shooting rockets at stuff, and Shani shoots that one dude in the chest with a rocket and, like, blasts him across the room. And then there's that, like, the airship flying the thopters flying around, shooting, like, machine guns at him. And I love the shot. She shoots it, and it goes through the shield slowly, like, drills through the shield and blows it up. And then she's running, and we get that wide shot of her running, and she's, like, laughing. The. All the remnants of the thopter, like, crash down in flames behind her. She's, like, running online. I just thought it was a super fucking cool scene. I was amped for it. I loved it. In the book, it's said that Sahaya is what Paul calls Chani. That's his intimate name for her. In the movie, they say that that is her siege name, which I don't remember that being the case in the book. I thought it was just his name for her. So I'm not sure if that's her tribal name or not. But I liked the movie making that be, like, her tribal name. I thought that made sense. So, anyways, it also may be the case in the book, and I just don't remember. And including in the stuff in the time jump, I mentioned it earlier. I like removing Leto, too. So Leto the second is the name of their son that Chani and Paul have. I'm sure some dune fans would be mad about that being removed. I think it makes a lot of sense, especially for the film. In the book, we get a time jump. We literally, I can't stress this enough, never interact with Leto the second is a baby that we, like, never see or even hear much about. Paul thinks very little about it. Like, it's. The kid is almost irrelevant to the story entirely. Except for when I talked about when Aaliyah gets kidnapped.
• 2:03:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker A: During that, they find out. During that raid, some people were killed. One of the people killed was Leto the second was killed in that raid on siege tabber. And it just. It's like a big moment in the thing, and it, like, spurs him down the path even more. But we've never met this, like, we've. It's just. It's like a character. We don't know. It just feels like, literally there that we have this kid so that we can take it away to add character motivation. And I don't think the movie.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker B: Right. But if you never interact with, I don't know, this baby, it just.
• 2:04:03
  Speaker A: I just felt like it made sense to not include it. And I don't know. I'm sure some people, like I said, would not be happy about that exclusion, but I was fine with it. Honestly, I thought it wasn't. It didn't hurt the film at all the gladiator fight on Yeti prime is sick as hell. That's the one shot in infrared where.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, it looked really cool.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker A: Fade Routha is fighting all the people in the gladiator arena. I love the weird, goopy fireworks they shoot off. They shoot off fireworks and they're like, gooey. I thought that, I just love that kind of shit. It's so weird. As I said, I get cutting out all the backstory with Thufer, but I like it. I liked that stuff. In this scene in the book, Thufir is working with fade, and they concoct this plan. So in the movie, Baron Harkonnen is like, that third, they're like, that third slave isn't drugged because they drug the slaves so that it's easy to fight. And they're like, that third slave isn't drugged. And Baron Harkonnen's like, let's not ruin his birthday. Let's let him fight. And in the movie, it's revealed that the baron did this on purpose to impress everybody more so that Feyd would be more of a hero in everybody's eyes, that he fought a non drugged slave or whatever. In the book, it's this way more complicated plot where Thufer and fade hatch this plan to not have the slave drugged so that the slave master who's responsible for drugging the slaves gets in trouble and then he gets executed. And then Thufir and Fade can put their own slave master in that role for political reasons. It's, there's like, all this background political machinations going on. And it's interesting. I'm not explaining it well. It's interesting, but it's really complicated and way too complicated for the movie to get into and explain. So I totally makes sense to cut all that. And I did like the fact, I liked that it established the dynamic between Baron Harkonnen and Fade Ralph there pretty well where they're, like, constantly trying to kill each other, kind of, but also, like, love each other.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker A: And the Baron Harkonnen wants fade Raltha to take his role eventually, but he also, he also doesn't want him to. I don't know. It's complicated. He doesn't want him to fade. Routha keeps trying to kill the baron. And the baron's like, you idiot. You can't kill me. You're gonna have my role, just not yet. I don't know. And I thought that movie scene kind of presented that dynamic that is in the book just a little bit quicker. And cleaner in the scene where they meet Gurney Halleck or reunite with Gurney Halleck. I loved the weird giant magnetic space mines that come flying out of the sand and, like, latch onto the thing and blow up. I thought, those are super cool. Not in the book. And then my final note for better in the movie is there's the shot where they're getting ready for the big raid, or this is better in the movie where they're getting ready for the big raid, and they put down the thumpers, and you get this shot of, like, four or five thumpers or something in the sand. And then the camera, like, pedestals up, and stilgar is, like, crouched on the crest of the dune, and you see him first looking like a badass. And then the camera keeps going up higher and reveals, like, thousands and thousands of fremen behind him. So fucking cool. It gave me Roharim kind of vibes from Lord of the Rings. Just super awesome. All right, let's go ahead and talk about what the movie nailed. As I expected, practically perfect in every way. I talked about how Jessica is not as much of a villain in the book as she is in the movie, but one thing it does kind of nail is that Paul does see her as an adversary in the book. Paul, to himself several times, thinks of her as his enemy, but specifically for birthing him and setting him down this path. Not so much for continuing to, like, push him down it the way she does in the movie, but he does. They have this weird dynamic that's hard to explain from the book. Anyways, in the movie, when fade does the duel in the gladiator arena, he has, like, a long black knife and a short white knife. That's from the book. He also wears a black glove and a white glove in the book that correspond to that. And one of the knives is poisoned. The white knife is poisoned, and the black knife is not. It's like a ceremonial thing they just do or whatever.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker B: Is this in the gladiator?
• 2:08:29
  Speaker A: Yes, in the gladiator arena. And again, that's where it gets even more complicated, because even in that scene, he, for some reason, fade. Routha poisons the opposite blade for reasons. Some of it's complicated for complicated sake. But I like that they kept the one white knife and the one black knife that comes from the thing. The water of life ceremony that I mentioned with Jessica is fairly similar, a little bit different, but close enough. And then the reverend mother kind of giving her her memories, and they mind meld in that moment. As I mentioned, Jessica does not think Chani is right for Paul. This comes from the book. In the book, Hera specifically calls out Jessica and is like, you don't like Chani? You don't think she's right for Paul and that sort of thing. So that comes from the book. There's a line in the movie that I thought was kind of funny because I thought it was a bad line. And it's when Jessica's walking down the hall. It's after she's pregnant and she's done the water of life test. She's walking down the hall, and she looks at some fremen, and she says, you're right. If we want to protect your brother, we need all of the fremen to believe in the prophecy. And I felt that line was so, like, kind of cheesy and on the nose that she's just, like, talking to Aaliyah out loud, like, stating, like, what her motivations are and what they need to do. It just felt like very handholdy for the audience.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker B: We did get a little tiny bit of greek chorus there.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, but here's the thing. I put it in the movie. Nailed it. Because the book does that sometimes. As cryptic and hard to parse as this book can be at times, at other times, Frank Herbert will just be like. That's when Paul realized he must kill the like. He will have moments where he just explicitly says what is happening or what needs to happen to help explain some of the more complicated stuff. And so I thought that kind of fit right in line with what the book does sometimes. So as much as it made me laugh watching in the movie, I was like, that's not a good line. I was like, yeah, no, you know what? That fits, though. Not every line in Dune is perfect is a banger. The whole part where he convinces Stilgar that they have to change their ways and that he needs to be Duke of Arrakis without being forced to kill Stilgar. And Stilgar agreeing to all that, that I thought was great and comes right from the book. Slightly better in the book because their relationships is a little bit more fleshed out. But again, it still works great in the movie. We finally get to see Gurney Halleck play as Ballisette in the movie, if only for 5 seconds. That's a thing he does constantly. I say constantly. He does a lot in the book. We get some songs. He plays his ballisette and his son.
• 2:11:13
  Speaker B: Anyway, here's wonderwall.
• 2:11:15
  Speaker A: Yes. People are always like, gurney Halleck, give us a song. And then he's like, plays his ballisette and sings. Luckily, all the songs are very short in this, which I appreciate. There's not, like, multi page songs that go on forever and ever. But he does play some songs quite a bit. And so I was glad we finally got to see that in the film because it did not happen in the first one at all. There's a line that Paul says in the film. I think he's talking to somebody. No, he's talking to Gurney. After him and Gurney reunite and they're walking back to the siege, and he says, many of these friends have become worshippers or something like that to Gurney. And Gurney's like, yeah, we'll use them. And, like, go get revenge, or whatever. That line specifically, Paul thinks that to himself about Stilgar in the book, he says, I have seen a friend become a worshiper when Stilgar kind of, like, submits to him or whatever and, like, you know, sees him as the prophet. At the big final scene where the emperor arrives along with the emperor, all of the houses show up and are sitting in orbit around Arrakis ready to fuck shit up because they want to see what's going to happen and if they need to kill Paul or whatever, seeing what's going to happen. So the same thing happens in the book. I love the emperor's disco ball ship in the movie. It's not exactly described as that in the book, but it is described as this gigantic ship that has legions and legions of shoal. It's like a city sized ship or whatever. And so I thought the movie's version of that looked pretty cool and fit what the. Mostly fit what the book described. They blow the wall, the shield wall open right as the storm hits to allow the storm through, to help destroy the shields inside. And then you mentioned the sandworm cavalry charge right out of the book. They ride in on a whole line of. It's like a wedge shaped formation of sandworms come riding through the wall, just like decimating all the Sardaukar and everything. Super fucking cool. And then the final thing during that whole battle, I just wanted to read one more little section because the prose describing the attack on the emperor's throne room is so evocative. And I think this is why so many directors and filmmakers have been attracted to this book. It just screams to be translated to the screen because I could not stop thinking of, like, what this would look like as I was reading it. And so I just want to read a little section here to kind of share a little bit of that. If you have not read it and why I think it is that this book has such a hold on some people. So here, here's a little bit of this is during the attack on the throne room. So this is right after Aaliyah says, I told you my brother comes. Another crash shook the hutment. The double doors banged open at the far side of the chamber, admitting wind blown sand and the sound of shouting. That's exactly what happens in the movie. A small black robed figure could be seen momentarily against the light. Aaliyah darting out to find a knife and as befitted her fremen training to kill Harkonnen and Sardaukar wounded, House Sardaukar charged through a green yellow haze toward the opening, weapons ready, forming an arc there to protect the emperor's retreat. Save yourself, sire, a Sardaukar officer shouted into the ship. But the emperor. But the emperor. And this is the part. This next, like, couple paragraphs is what really got me. But the emperor stood alone now on his dais, pointing towards the doors. A 40 meters section of the hutment had been blasted away there and the simulacs doors opened now onto drifting sand. A dust cloud hung low over the outside world, blowing from pastel distances. Static lightning crackled from the cloud and the spark flashes of shields being shorted out by the storms. Charge could be seen through the haze. The plane surged with figures in combat, Sardaukar and leaping, gyrating robed men who seemed to come down out of the storm. All of this was as a frame for the target of the emperor's pointing hand. Out of the sand haze came an orderly mass of flashing shapes, great rising curves with crystal spokes that resolved into the gaping mouths of sandworms. A massed wall of them, each with troops of fremen riding to the attack. They came in a hissing wedge, robes whipping in the wind as they cut through the melee on the plain. Onward toward the emperor's hutment. They came while the house Sardicore stood awed for the first time in their history by an onslaught their minds found difficult to accept. So that moment where like that door opens and all this stuff and it just, like I said, I could not read that and just not so vividly see it. And the movie, I thought, captured a lot of that very well. But man, it's just, again, I get why people who have filmmaking kind of minds would read that. Cause it's what I did and just was like, I gotta do this. This is the coolest shit ever. Alright? That was all the stuff I thought was that the movie nailed? We got a handful nods and ends before we get to the final verdict. I don't know if you noticed this, but it was cracking me up. I thought the siege, when they get inside, it looks like the inside of Neville Sinclair's house in the Rocketeer. We were just talking about this. They're walking through those hallways, and it's like the stone tiles look almost exactly. I thought they were gonna walk into his living room at some point. I was gonna be like, what? For those of you who don't know, on our most recent episode, a bonus episode on Patreon, we talked about the Rocketeer in that the villain lives in this house that is crazy looking. And it looks a lot like the siege when they first get to it in this movie.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker B: Anyways, speaking of things that look like things, the water of life looks exactly like the blue liquor they use in bad commercials.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker A: It also looks like antifreeze a little bit, but, yes, it absolutely does.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker B: Like, she brought out that first little jar of that, and I was like, are we gonna go get a little poise pad here? Pour it in.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:17:14
  Speaker B: Stilgar seemed, like, way more religious in this movie than he did in the last one.
• 2:17:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, he is in this half of the book as well. But the movie amped that up even more. Like, they made him even more, like, all the stuff where he's like, it is written, say it is written at all in the book. Like, that's, like, a recurring thing in the movie. They made him again to juxtapose him with Chani, they amped up, like, stilgar and his, like, the more superstitious fremen to, like, really be, like, believers.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker B: Speaking of Chani, there was a moment where her and Paul were having, like, a little flirtation, like, early ish in their relationship, and he says to her, he's like, like, I'd very much like to be equal to you. And I was like, okay. Spicy.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. She's like, we're all equal here. And he's like, well, I'd like to be equal to you.
• 2:18:03
  Speaker B: Who's giving Bridgerton.
• 2:18:05
  Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker B: We talked about the gladiator scene.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker A: Yeti prime.
• 2:18:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. The Harkonnen homeworld. And I thought it was really interesting because it was giving, like, an alternate universe. Mad Max. Like, if Mad Max was, like, like, sleek and not post apocalyptic.
• 2:18:28
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:18:29
  Speaker B: Like. Cause it was mostly, like, all of the really pale bald guys, I guess.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. You were thinking of the war boys. Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 2:18:41
  Speaker B: I think I said a very similar thing in our dune episode. But name a movie with more dramatically billowing cloaks. I'll wait. I cannot, because every single person in this movie has a dramatically billowing cloak.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker A: Low as hell, man.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker B: I also thought these movies really put in the work to make the little nose things not look completely stupid.
• 2:19:06
  Speaker A: It is so easy for those to look real dumb.
• 2:19:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:19:09
  Speaker A: And they look fine like, they look.
• 2:19:10
  Speaker B: Then the movie made very judicious use of them as well, which helped.
• 2:19:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker B: Another thing I noticed that I thought was really funny was that after Paul takes the water of life and he, like, becomes the messiah, he starts wearing his hair pushed back instead of, like, being all floppy and cute in his face. Because it's time for serious Paul now.
• 2:19:34
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I actually, as a note, I forgot to mention, now that you say that the serious Paul, a thing that I thought was incredible is that once he gets the water of life and he's really leaning into the Messiah thing, he literally walks with a terrible purpose. He changes the way he walks. He's big, long strides that are like. I didn't know how else to describe it other than he literally walks with a terrible purpose. And I thought that was. I don't know if that was the direction, but kudos.
• 2:20:04
  Speaker B: My last note here was after Princess Aurelian agrees to marry Paul, and I was like, I mean, you could do worse.
• 2:20:15
  Speaker A: You really could do worse.
• 2:20:16
  Speaker B: You could do worse. I mean, I get that the situation is very fraught, but at least you don't have to marry bald Austin Butler.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker A: This is true. Timothee Chalamet is not as hideous as. Well.
• 2:20:30
  Speaker B: And I get that they're kind of two sides of the same coin. And Paul is also terrible, but at an interpersonal level, I would rather be married to Paul.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker A: Paul is also terrible, but he's not murder random slaves. He's not like, at least not yet. I say that I don't know where things go, but at least right now, as up to what we've seen, he's not murder people for fun. Cruelty, yes. Terrible. And fade. Routh. That absolutely is so, yeah, we wanted to remind you, you can do us a giant favor by hanging over to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, goodreads, threads, any of those places, like, subscribe, interact. We would love to hear what you have to say about Dune part two. Want to know? Get your feedback, tell us what you thought. That all is a lot of fun. We'll talk about that on our next prequel episode. You can also help us out by heading over to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you're listening to us, drop us a five star rating. Write us a nice little review. That all helps get our show out there. And if you really want to help us, head over to patreon.com. thisfilm is lit. Support us there for two, five, or $15 a month. Get access to different things at each level. At the $5 level and up, you get access to bonus content. Like I said just a few minutes ago, we just did the rocketeer for our bonus episode for June. June we're doing what's our July bonus episode?
• 2:21:46
  Speaker B: Ten things I hate about you.
• 2:21:47
  Speaker A: Ten things I hate about you will be out in July. Every episode we put out a bonus episode talking about whatever we want. So go check that out. And at the $15 level you get a priority recommendation. If there's something you'd really like for us to talk about, support us for $15 a month, recommend it to us and we will throw it into our schedule as soon as we can. Katie, it's time for the final verdict.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker B: Sentence passed, verdict after. That's stupid.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker A: This is not an easy decision. I said in the prequel that I didn't like the second half of this book nearly as much as the first half when I read it for the first time for our first Dune episode back in 2021. But that was not my experience. This time. I found the second half to be immensely enjoyable. As we watch the tragedy of Paul Muadib unfold, Herbert's writing is a fascinating blend of styles that has a little something, I think kind of for everyone. There are these beautiful, trippy descriptions of the expanding consciousness of our main character that seem to dare the reader to try to understand them. There are heart pumping and evocative action scenes that are crafted so descriptively, as I've read a little bit earlier, that you feel as if you're watching a film. And there are even times where Herbert will literally just tell you a thing so plainly that it feels like you're reading a textbook. All of this is set against the backdrop of some of the best world building I've ever read in a fantasy or Sci-Fi novel. The political machinations alone are enough to make your head spin, but in a way that I found very enjoyable. I had constant questions as I read, but I was never distracted by them. I simply wanted to know more about this world. And because it's so well realized, I know that those answers exist, even if they aren't important to the narrative at hand. And that's the kind of novel that I love getting lost in. So the film had a lot of work to do to win me over, and it did. Adapting a story this complicated, this expansive, is a monumental task. There are subplots on subplots on subplots and figuring out what to keep, what to cut and what to change is a job that I do not envy. But I do think Denis Villeneuve and everybody else involved with the film kind of nailed it. They cut to the core of the story, Paul's doomed struggle against destiny and the Fremen's battle for freedom and centered those, while still giving us enough of the larger political world beyond Arrakis that set us up for a potential third film. I already talked about it a lot, but I really, truly love the decision to cast Chani in opposition to Jessica. Jessica is Benny Gesserit, an order of eugenicist space nuns that impose their colonial will on the universe. Chani is a fremen, the indigenous people of Arrakis striving to free themselves from the boot of the empire. I can understand why some people wouldn't like these changes, particularly to Jessica, as this version sees her much more in the role of villain, where her book counterpart is a bit more complicated than that. But I loved it. I think it crystallizes some of the major themes of the book in a way that just works. Finally, a thing that the movie gets perfectly right about Dune is that apart from all the other weird, interesting, philosophical stuff the book is about, I mean, we have talking two year olds and weird suspenser, alien like, it's a truly crazy book. But apart from all that other stuff, the book is really, and I mean this sincerely, about making you go, that's fucking sick. I think it could be easy to criticize the film for being overly reliant on spectacle and cool fight scenes, but I'm actually here to tell you that all comes straight from the book. So much of the dialogue, so many of the big moments in this book are very clearly written to make you stop and go, this is awesome while you're reading it, and the film nails those moments. It brings the spectacle and it puts the world of Arrakis on glorious display. I was enraptured for the entire runtime of the film, and I really hope we get to see Villeneuve's Dune Messiah. I think there's rumors that it's going to happen. I hope it does. I have not read the book, but I'm excited. I heard it gets weirder and weirder, so I'm amped for that. So for all of those reasons and probably quite a few that I didn't mention. I'm actually giving this one to the movie. Katie, what's next?
• 2:25:52
  Speaker B: Up next, we are getting started on our 2024 summer series.
• 2:25:58
  Speaker A: Let's go.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker B: And we're gonna be doing something a little different this summer. Yeah, well, it's still a series.
• 2:26:08
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 2:26:08
  Speaker B: But it's not a book series.
• 2:26:09
  Speaker A: Not a book series.
• 2:26:10
  Speaker B: It is a movie series.
• 2:26:11
  Speaker A: It is.
• 2:26:12
  Speaker B: And if you don't know what we're talking about yet, yet. We're going to be covering the Hobbit.
• 2:26:18
  Speaker A: Yes, the Hobbit.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker B: One book, three movies. Let's go.
• 2:26:23
  Speaker A: Absolutely. So, yes, doing the Hobbit for our summer series 2024 should be a lot of fun. I've seen all the movies. I've read the book. I like this book more than the Lord of the Rings books. General I did, at least. I don't know.
• 2:26:35
  Speaker B: It's far more likable than the Lord of the Rings.
• 2:26:37
  Speaker A: Much more readable, at least. So, yeah, I'm very excited to revisit the book and the movies and see if I. My opinions have changed at all in the movies. I won't spoil what my opinions were on that. But I'll. Let's see if. We'll see. We shall see. So, yes, that it's coming up. We'll talk, get into the schedule and stuff on the prequel episode and how that's all gonna work. But yeah, in two weeks time, we're talking about the first Hobbit movie. What's. What's it called? The Hobbit? An unexpected journey.
• 2:27:02
  Speaker B: Yes, I believe that is correct.
• 2:27:04
  Speaker A: So it'll be in two weeks time, but in one week's time, we'll be previewing the Hobbit and hearing what everybody had to say about dune, part two. Until that time, guys, gals, non binary pals, and everybody else keep reading books, keep watching movies, and keep being awesome.