Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Ep 101: The Truth About Post-Partum Recovery and Exercise After Childbirth with Peter Lap

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Ep 101: The Truth About Post-Partum Recovery and Exercise After Childbirth with Peter Lap · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:00
  Peter Lap: post partum is not about focusing on burning calories. And we all know as as personal trainers, the best way to actually burn some calories to some muscle gain some muscles and do your strength training and and have your basal metabolic rate go up and you can sit on your bum and burn more calories.
• 0:21
  Philip Pape: Welcome to the Wits& Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits& Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. In this episode I'm discussing postpartum recovery with Peter lap one of UK is leading authorities in this critical area of women's health from unraveling the complex condition known as diastasis recti. To the unique challenges women face post pregnancy, Peter will address misconceptions and share actionable strategies for postpartum recovery. We'll get into the physical, mental and emotional journey that follows childbirth, uncovering truths that will challenge your assumptions as always, and transform your perspective on women's health and fitness. This episode is for men and women alike because we all want to support the women in our lives.
• 1:26
  Philip Pape: Peter is a post natal expert with over 12 years of helping women recover from pregnancy and giving birth. He has written hundreds of articles on postpartum recovery diastasis, recti, postpartum back and neck pain and advocating for better and more affordable access for women to women, women, to women's health professionals.
• 1:43
  Philip Pape: He's also the host of the healthy postnatal body podcast, where he interviews expert guests and answers, listener emails on anything postpartum related. And as appeared on various podcasts, radio shows, and panels. Peter, thank you so much for coming on the
• 1:58
  Peter Lap: show. Thanks very much for having me, Philip, thanks so much for the very kind introduction.
• 2:02
  Philip Pape: Likewise, yeah, I'm looking forward to get into this. It's not a topic we really just really covered here. And I just want to start with the obvious, right? You're a man working in a field focus on women's health? How did you find your way to becoming an expert in specifically postpartum recovery?
• 2:16
  Peter Lap: Yeah, this is like my, my what went wrong story, so to speak. So I used to have a proper job long, long time ago as a project manager, and then I retrained to become a personal trainer. And as most PTs in the UK, do, you go to personal training school, you take a course or whatever, and then you go work in the standard gym for for a little while until you build up a client base. And I worked for one of them slightly more higher end gyms because they needed people. And I joined. And I found that most of my clientele tended to be women between the ages of 25 and 35.
• 2:48
  Peter Lap: And one of my American friends who was a personal trainer in New York, and have the same clientele same sort of same sort of market. And he said to me, he kept losing clients all the time. Because at that age, now women start families and have kids or they already have one, but then the other second, and if he wasn't postpartum qualified, and 12 years ago, believe it or not, that wasn't a big thing at all, was God and qualifications weren't as popular as they are now. But he said, so he couldn't really he didn't feel comfortable training them anymore, even though he had a whole bunch of clients that wanted to keep training with him. But he was not really comfortable training them. And I just thought, well, that's a silly way, as a business person, that's a silly way to lose clients. All you have to do is take a course and become comfortable with this style. So then I went to have a look at some courses, there were some courses available and take my money, and I took the courses and all that sort of stuff. And before I knew it, I found that within the city where I live, which is Edinburgh up in Scotland, Scotland's capital, and there wasn't anybody else doing, it was nobody else doing postpartum exercise for women at all. And I've always written a lot of articles, that exercise and blog posts and all that sort of stuff. And the more information I kept putting out there, the more Google like, because 10 years ago, hardly anyone was really writing about diastasis, recti, and all that sort of stuff. And I was just contacted more and more, but people were saying I've never heard of it, again, postponed.
• 4:24
  Peter Lap: The postpartum feels wasn't the same as it is now. 10 years ago, women's health wasn't the same as it is now 1010 years ago, and before I knew what it was all I was doing, and so I kind of fell into it for as I kept my clients, which was awesome, right? But then it kind of just became the guy that does postpartum stuff. And the more I don't know whether you experienced this as as as a, you know, white guy, you might be younger than I am. Don't know how old you are, but I'm 48 now, right? So I'm your typical middle aged white guy. And problems tend not to exist until they happen to me It might just be understand. And therefore, and because my wife and I don't have kids, we never went through this process. But the more women I spoke to, the more I found out that women's health, despite recovery for women, just was completely unaddressed by a lot of people. Also, by the health care system in the UK, at least, you know, in other countries, you get quite a bit of help postpartum in the UK, that just isn't a thing. And then I found out in America, it also kind of isn't a thing. And so yeah, before you know it, that's why I found myself. So this is kind of all I do now.
• 5:40
  Philip Pape: That's, that's pretty cool, right? Because I think it bucks the trend of the 99% of the time, when you ask somebody, where did they get to where they are now, it's like, well, I my personal story led me to this exact thing. That's like, of course, you couldn't have necessarily personally experienced it. But like you said, even in your own realm of your wife, or whoever else, you may not have either, but it was because of your clients and the demand and a lack of supply in the market for that. And even just tangential to women's health in general, I can see it through my clients, and through my wife, the huge gap in knowledge research, you go back to, you know, decades ago, and you could see reasons why women weren't even included in sample sizes for research, and we lacked all this information. And yeah, we're two white guys in our 40s. And I'm 42 We're gonna be 43 who are nonetheless we care, we're passionate about helping people who we can help.
• 6:31
  Philip Pape: So I love that. And I think it means nothing's off limits for people if we care about it. And people receiving that kind of care, I think, you know, if they can find somebody who has expertise, almost shouldn't matter who's delivering it as long as it's helpful. So let's let's get into the topic, then.
• 6:49
  Philip Pape: Because there's a lot here, including the pronounciation of diastasis recti, which is there.
• 6:53
  Philip Pape: So let's, let's talk about diastasis recti. Right, the the as I understand it, the separation of the muscles, but it's pretty common, like both during and after pregnancy. So what is it? And what symptoms can it cause?
• 7:12
  Peter Lap: Yeah, sure. That's an excellent question. First of all, the pronounce it, I call the diastasis. Some people call diastasis. This potato for data.
• 7:17
  Peter Lap: It's a dead language.
• 7:20
  Philip Pape: It's Latin. Yeah, exactly. It's not No, I asked my daughter on how it's pronounced cuz she's taking Latin. I'm like, How do you pronounce it?
• 7:28
  Peter Lap: That's probably that's probably the only way to do it. Because that's it. But there is not going to be like an ancient Roman for jumping on the podcast. And
• 7:35
  Philip Pape: you mispronounce this stone tablets. Yeah,
• 7:37
  Peter Lap: it's awkward. So I don't really mind how we pronounce it. Basically, you're right, it is separation of dystonic muscles along that middle line that we all have that runs from the Sturman to the sternum to the pubic bone.
• 7:56
  Peter Lap: So basically, where your belly button is, right, that that's in the center, like the center point of the body, that's kind of where, where the muscles start to move away a little bit.
• 8:08
  Peter Lap: And that is like the center of of it then tends to be so the muscles move, focus, you know, when you're, and I always say that, so director, the cause of it is internal pressure, not necessarily pregnancy, it can be an injury, it can be just a build up. Have you seen a lot of people who have raised too much, I have a lot of valley that, that get it because they lift heavy things. And they're, they're holding their breath as they lift heavy things. And then it becomes a sort of a repetitive strain injury, almost, because that's fundamentally what it is prolonged internal pressure on the core muscles, and a beast that everything just moves up.
• 8:48
  Peter Lap: Now, obviously, during pregnancy, that is because you're growing a human in there.
• 8:50
  Peter Lap: Which is an awesome thing to do so well,
• 8:56
  Philip Pape: before you get there. So I've never heard of this happening to like a man who lifts weights and uses a belt and then literally having the brace but does it how often is it?
• 9:07
  Peter Lap: Not that much. You find it a lot in people with recourse? So
• 9:13
  Philip Pape: if you've built it up over time, maybe Oh, yeah, I
• 9:16
  Peter Lap: mean, if you're an experienced lifter, and all this stuff, because then what you get if you're a serious lifter, and all of a sudden, you have an injury that tends to be a hernia and what we do find with people who are office workers, and people in wheelchairs, believe it or not, people in wheelchairs have this a lot because every time they have to get in and out of the wheelchair, if they push themselves up, and they're bracing that core because you've been sedentary all day, that cord just isn't strong enough to constantly deal with that internal pressure. So yeah, it should have been in Geisinger, and
• 9:47
  Philip Pape: I don't know I'm so curious. I was curious about it.
• 9:49
  Philip Pape: Yeah. But but it does happen in
• 9:51
  Peter Lap: men. So if there are guys listening to this, you know, the big I always said it's you see this a lot in the UK I'm guessing a lot America, as long as alpha guys listening to this, you know how you have some people that look amazing and a T shirt, they look phenomenal. And now you get to the belly and the belly is round. Right? That is internal pressure on the core, fundamentally. And you might find that when you adjust that, actually, there's a bit of separation of the stomach muscles, because the internal pressure is just constantly there. Now what is actually happening is that your muscles are out of position, that's fundamentally what's causing it, like you said, separation. And that's along that linear. So that's that middle line that I spoke about belong the belly button, and all that sort of stuff. Now there's a facial shutdown of a fascia sheet. And that is essentially the bit that is stretching. So that's why men can also get this because you constantly have a, a bloated belly, so to speak, then that fascial sheet stretches and then when you bring it together, all of a sudden, the fascia she just stretched, right. So it's
• 10:56
  Philip Pape: this is not visceral fat from drinking too much alcohol, I'm just gonna, there's different, there's different things,
• 11:01
  Peter Lap: it's a different color. So to understand, because understanding that this is not caused by practices quite, it's quite a big, it's just caused by internal pressure. And that really matters for postpartum recovery. Because 100% of women who are pregnant have diastasis, recti 100%, you physically cannot grow a baby in there and stay completely flat, that is impossible, it is never been done. That doesn't mean it's a problem for everyone. But that's a different beast altogether.
• 11:34
  Peter Lap: Those fighting we find that after six weeks, about 80% of women still have some form of diastasis recti. If you use a narrow definition, I won't go into much detail. But fundamentally for diastasis recti, what matters is the width of the gap, the depth of the gap. And in my humble opinion, muscle functionality is actually dictate whether your core still does what it should be doing. So when we understand is caused by internal pressure, then you can realize and most guys listening to this advice, and most women listening to this who are postpartum at some stage, and doesn't matter whether you're 10 or 20 years postpartum, you'll find that sometimes when we eat food, that bloats our belly as well. But I can't have a dominance without my belly immediately swelling up to the size of a balloon that matters if you're trying to heal diastasis recti. Okay, because it's really difficult to put everything back in its place, if the food you're eating is constantly increasing pressure, do it, I mean, we're trying to flatten the balloon, so to speak, if you're constantly putting air in that balloon, then of course, the balloon is never going to shrink. So understanding that matters, because it means that quite often postpartum, your body responds differently to different types of food, and every woman in the world will understand what I'm talking about that you used to be able to do used to be fine with apples, pre prenatal, and all of a sudden postpartum. You look at an apple and a stamp bloating already. That means that whilst you're trying to do this rehab exercise, which essentially is what postpartum recovery exercises, it's the same as a frozen shoulder and doing shoulder rehab. You just want to lay off the apples a bit as well. Because if they're causing the bloating, then they're not helping you in the moment. Yeah, it doesn't mean you always need to cut out apples. It just means that in the moment for rehab, that's kind of where they need to be. I'm sorry, they felt that way too boring, perfect.
• 13:40
  Philip Pape: But no, I'm fascinated by it. So I always say, Look, we're coming up on 100 episodes, if my audience is bored, and I'm not, then they're not my the ones that do well, listen, so All right, what? Why is it a problem, I guess is another thing I want to understand. I love all the things about preventing the symptoms by paying attention, your food, and then also how it's different for different women. And it's the principle of the separation, not so much that it's caused only by pregnancy, but it's put affects all pregnant women. So
• 14:10
  Peter Lap: why is it a problem?
• 14:10
  Peter Lap: And that is the big question.
• 14:13
  Peter Lap: Because for a lot of women, it used to be an aesthetic problem.
• 14:18
  Peter Lap: They didn't like the way it looked. And that's completely fine. That is a valid reason for addressing something I mean, I go to the gym predominantly to stay healthy, but also to look have reasonable, right? I want to look half human by the time I'm 6070 years old, that's why I got so I always say aesthetics is a completely decent reason to address a problem. The main issue for the SSS Rector is that muscle functionality is quite often impaired when you have diastasis recti. And if your deep core because that's quite often the the one of the problem areas your your transverse abdominus and all that sort of stuff, which is the the middle layer of your three layers of core muscles for anybody listening, right? If that is not working properly, that means sooner or later, other muscles will start to kick in, and work to heart. Right. And in 99, out of 99 out of 100 cases that I come across, that tends to be the back muscles that will start to kick in, especially deep core, back muscles, your QL, and all that sort of stuff. Right.
• 15:31
  Peter Lap: And again, that is just for anybody listening, that is not the superficial muscles that you feel this is your deep core stuff that basically the most important of all the core muscles, these are the ones that protect your spine. And that makes sure you can rotate without any pain and all that sort of stuff, this is not the get a Swedish massage. And then that is a drop down type type stuff that when muscles are out of place, as a physio will tell you, which you kind of tend to have with diastasis recti and a weak core things, your body tends not to be in alignment, your glutes aren't quite firing up properly. And that needs to be addressed because your imbalance is affected. You're, if you're an athlete, your athletic ability is severely impaired, if your body isn't functioning optimally, but just in daily life, if you think about what women have to do women with kids, what they have to do to get from point A to point B car, they have to carry buggies and travel systems and a bag full of stuff. And you can have a toddler that is fighting against you and throwing a little tantrum that is constantly jerking into you, and all that sort of stuff. If you're, if your core isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing, that's when injuries happen is what I always say, it's a life, it's a life thing, much more than just say, other muscles don't work out, we'll deal with it. This is why back pain kind of comes from.
• 16:59
  Philip Pape: Okay, I love that you brought up all that. So for those who listen to this show, not long ago, probably about 10 episodes ago, we talked to Dr.
• 17:05
  Philip Pape: Ryan Peebles about core training and the deep core, and how it propagates into back pain. And it's very nice tie in here to all of that, and I hear what you're saying, because we often hear of injuries, in any context, not even this, just this context of often happening when you you know you're doing something beyond your level of strength or movement capability that you haven't trained for.
• 17:28
  Philip Pape: And so you often hear even somebody who's very strong, they'll go, and they'll reach way over for something to put it on a truck. And that's when they'll their back will have an issue, not the 400 pound deadlift that it's kind of funny. So yeah, glutes not firing, your balance affected, there's a whole propagation of issues. So it's very important.
• 17:46
  Philip Pape: It sounds like to address this earlier than later. So that leads to the question, what kind of training or therapy do you recommend for managing it?
• 17:54
  Peter Lap: Yeah, that's an excellent question. Because it's exactly the issue is exactly what you said it was it is exactly your body is not capable of doing the things you're asking it to do. Right. That's fundamentally how injuries happen. And that means that when you do any sort of rehab training, and like I said, Then it says, back to recovering any sort of postpartum training, in spite of that, you have to go slow. Your muscles aren't doing the things they're supposed to do. So I always say, the first three to four weeks. And this is how long is a piece of string sort of scenario, right? If you were really active during pregnancy, your muscle activation will be better if you were still squatting up until the day before your due date, and all that sort of stuff, your glutes will be much more active than someone who's been sedentary for the entire, entire, like 678 Diamond periods. But I always start with a nice steady, get the body fired up again. So we start we do some glute bridges and all that sort of stuff. And I think top of my head, the first full week home program that I do is like, this is not a sales thing, right? So this is just that I do with all my postpartum clients.
• 19:03
  Peter Lap: We do some heel slides. We do a choreograph. That's the first thing learning how to breathe properly, is essential. With some heels slides that you just lay on the floor, you stretch one leg out, and you bring that back in and see how you respond to that. We do some glute bridges, not even a single leg glute bridges that just a bog standard laying on the floor blueprint is no way to squeeze your bum. We do some squats, we do some reverse lunges. And that's pretty much if basic stuff. And we've tried to do 10 to 15 reps of all this sort of stuff. Not because we're looking for and I'm sure you've discussed high rep ranges and all that sort of stuff a lot on this product, not because we're looking for hypertrophy we're just looking for. Because I get asked this question a lot. Why is it 10 I'm not trying to get a bigger bump. By doing some bodyweight glute bridges. No one's ever built a big bomb in that way. We're just looking to make sure that your glutes are doing the work and not hamstrings. Because how often do we see someone walking into a gym, and then banging out some amazing looking glute bridges with a big barbell, but there's a hamstrings doing all the work?
• 20:08
  Peter Lap: For sure. Right? That is just another way to get injured. So that's where we starting. So it's just building that up. And the more we ask of the body, over a three to four month period, again, how long is a piece of string, some people will be a bit longer, it depends on how your pregnancy went when he had a C section, but it's your second or third child, whether you've been active beforehand, or whether it's six weeks ago, or 20 years ago, right? It's a muscular problem.
• 20:36
  Peter Lap: So it can always be addressed by exercise. That's what I always say, doesn't matter if it's 20 years ago, but your recovery time will increase rather exponentially. If you do, we just ask a bit more of the body every three to four weeks. And the thing is, because it's a rehab thing, we do this every day. Right? That is quite often the key going to the gym once a week for an hour with a personal trainer won't help. Unless you do your home exercises. It's physio stuff, it's I don't know if you've ever had a shoulder injury or anything like that loads of
• 21:13
  Philip Pape: I'm recovering from rotator repair right now, the rotator cuff repair. I haven't started my physical therapy only a month out.
• 21:21
  Peter Lap: The recovery for that will be boring as anything, it's not going to be fun to do big shoulder presses, Military Presses, all that sort of stuff.
• 21:29
  Peter Lap: It's boring, is repetitive. And it's absolutely essential that you do it otherwise you won't heal properly. And it's going to cause you a problem later, you can any sort of we have stuff frozen shoulder over with your tongue, I love to show because everybody has shoulder pain. So I love given that as an example.
• 21:49
  Peter Lap: But all that sort of stuff, we can all rush through it very easily. It is not a problem to rush through shoulder stuff, and then be fine with life and just have a niggling shoulder for the rest of your life. Right, it'll just be that old shoulder injury. Yeah, the problem is, sooner or later, you're gonna have to take a couple of weeks off, because your shoulders flaring up massively after you did some big shoulder presses and all that sort of stuff. And you know, all of a sudden, you can't really train clients anymore, because you can't show them how to do proper shoulder press, because overhand movement is a bit tough, you just end up and therefore it starts impact on the way you live your life.
• 22:29
  Peter Lap: Right, all of a sudden, you have to ask your wife to reach for things off the top shelf, because you know your your stiff shoulder. And, and that's what I always say Wisconsin postpartum recovery as well. But it is dull in the beginning, it's not exciting. In the beginning, you just do 10 minutes every day.
• 22:45
  Peter Lap: But you have to do them every day. Because you have to retrain your body to use the right muscles, again, that they haven't used for three, four or five months at least if you're talking about postpartum recovery. So this is a I
• 22:57
  Philip Pape: love this specificity of your answer, you know, telling us specific movements and rep ranges, that's really good because people get an idea of what you're talking about. And it is a rehab protocol. So you're not, you know, you're not hitting high intensity three days a week, you're hitting, you know, a high high rep range. For, you know, the light resistance, I don't know if it's gonna be bands or by weight every day, which which makes sense. What about what's the difference between women who might have been training beforehand and after should is how valuable is this training protocol versus easing back into whatever they were already doing? And the body just recovering back to normal on its own? You know?
• 23:37
  Peter Lap: Yeah. That's again, that's a great question. Because women who train during their pregnancy are athletes, I've trained one or two tennis players, and all that sort of stuff, and they don't stop training just gets her pregnant, but they're still new competition, they've got money to make, these are not like top 10 level in the world tennis players. I'm not talking to Serena Williams, I'm talking about people who tour and have to tour and make 30 grand a year, whilst working like a beast. They, they find that their postpartum recovery is simply much better, because their muscles still know what to do. Right? That muscle hasn't been inactive for three to four or five months. And therefore, the early stage of postpartum recovery is simply shorter for him. Nothing fancy, I mean, the first four to six weeks of muscle activation, that's usually two to three. And that's fine, and they're completely fine. And then we can start to to place more of the demand on the muscles. So they progressed through the program a bit quicker. And some of them only need a post a recovery program really short because this is all individualized, right? In an ideal world. Personal Training.
• 24:48
  Peter Lap: The important part isn't the training element. It's the personal element of it. In an ideal world, everybody gets their own personal personal program. So for these four Some of these women, I've seen them for like a month, and then they're like, okay, I'm good to go, I can do whatever I wanted, because they know what to do.
• 25:05
  Peter Lap: I'm sure as as a PT, a few myself as some sort of, you know, you have those rotated belts in a restaurant, you just pick your thing. That's why I'm an assembly line, I have a client I six, I moved the map, simply because I think it's rehab stuff, I don't want to I love working with some people for eight 910 years. That that is not my that's not my goal. I want to fix people so I can help the next person. So for some women, that is a month, and then they can go about their merry business for other people. And this is tends to be the case of women who were not active during the pregnancy or haven't never trained all that much on different things. Prenatal. So if you do a lot of cardio during your, during your pregnancy, that is awesome. And that is phenomenal. And it is fantastic.
• 25:57
  Peter Lap: And I'm not knocking it. But it's not going to help your postpartum recovery when it comes to rehab stuff. Because lots of women, lots of women do do this, because they get told to you know, when you've just given birth, the best exercise to do is what they're told is to go walking. Yeah, no, it isn't.
• 26:16
  Peter Lap: Just isn't the best exercise and and postpartum walking is awesome. And you need to leave the house anyway. So I'm not quite sure what that comment is aimed at. There's you should be doing it anyway. Yeah. But but it doesn't help you postpartum recovery from a rehab perspective doesn't get your glutes fired up. Unless you're walking up a hill, or indeed down the hill. Your core activation won't necessarily improve unless you're off balance, or you're asking your core to, to do stuff or just walking does very little for them. So so that is kind of the type of activity you're doing prenatal. And during the practice, it really matters for your postpartum recovery. But predominantly, the program is any sort of rehab program is kind of the same for most variations of diastasis recti have three or four different variations. But the recovery is kind of the same for absolutely every single one of them.
• 27:14
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it sounds just like any time you are going to have a change in your situation, like you said, surgery, I've had two surgeries.
• 27:20
  Philip Pape: And in both cases, I kept lifting right up until the surgery, and then the recovery is really fast. You know, it's the same thing. But I don't know how many I don't know how many I can't speak for women. I don't know how many women who are pregnant or are very aware that this is can be thought of in that way. Right? Like I'm sure it could be I don't remember my wife talking about it. So she may not have experienced it to an extent that it was an issue.
• 27:44
  Philip Pape: But I guess that's where I'm going is how do you know? It's it even needs recovery? I guess you said all women get it, but he didn't get a test. Do you measure something? Is there you know, circumference measurements? Like what do you do to kind of figure it out?
• 27:57
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that that action? Yeah.
• 28:00
  Peter Lap: That's a good question. Yes. For most women, what happens is they get a six weeks postpartum checkup, right?
• 28:06
  Peter Lap: They go, you go to your GP after six weeks. What the GP tends to do, they may look at the baby for 10 minutes, and then it gives you a quick, cursory glance to make sure you're still alive. You're good. Yeah, he's still alive, you get you're not gonna kill yourself, right? That is very, to be very blunt to get asked about postpartum depression. And but that's kind of what it is. Sometimes, you get a good GP and they say, Okay, let's also check your, your core muscles and see how they go. They basically lie on the table, and put a couple of fingers along that linea alba and there's tons of videos on how to measure the assessors RekSai. online on YouTube, it's on my YouTube channel as well. I have a slightly different way of doing it. But predominantly, you lay on your back, Leisha middle fingers, these are finger along that that line that I spoke about, and you just see how wide that gap is, how deep you can put the finger and all that sort of stuff. That doesn't test muscle functionality at all.
• 28:59
  Peter Lap: Right? That is just it with measurements. And as I always tell everybody, that if you're going to measure the assessors, right, and that way, it's completely valid to do it that way. Make sure you get a tape measure. Because I have this big sausage fingers. And if I measure you, you're gonna have to center two fingers separation. And if you measure yourself and you are built, like my wife is, for instance, was much smaller hands than I do.
• 29:26
  Peter Lap: You can fit three fingers in them. And if you take that home, and I tell you, you have two fingers separation, and a week later you measure yourself and you tell yourself I've got three things separation. The first instinct isn't, oh, my fingers must be smaller. The first instinct is oh my god, it has gotten worse. Right? So we need to get a tape measure out to make sure I always get my clients to measure their own. I sit next to them and showed them how to do it and say use your own fingers. Your fingers won't change that much insights and knowledge and even dentists will use the technique. Then what I do is just a basic exercise Can you lift your legs without your stomach? Tommy? Can you do that?
• 30:01
  Peter Lap: With bent knees? Can you do the straight leg some have a leg raise, as most of your listeners will be familiar with the exercise. But there is a leg, which was a tremendous amount of pressure on your core. How many people do we see that their stomach bulges when they do a leg raise, or they start bouncing up and down and they do a leg base because it's predominantly their hip flexors and momentum doing all the work.
• 30:25
  Peter Lap: But want to make sure the right muscles are doing things like I said, with glute bridges. Is it your glutes that are doing the work? Or is it your hamstrings that are doing the work? Those questions those those two things are actually the main ways that I discovered, okay, what's your what's your muscle activation, like the side plank of dips is also a nice way to do it.
• 30:43
  Peter Lap: Because want to know if your obliques are doing their job.
• 30:44
  Peter Lap: And not everybody has equipment in the house to do like woodchopper type exercises, and then off presses and all that sort of stuff. So those three things, right, so you put your fingers in there, you see how wide the gap is, you see how far you can get your finger in there to see how deep the gap is. And then you do some glute bridges, you do some leg raises. And you do a side plank with dips, and they'll tell you but your muscles are working.
• 31:12
  Philip Pape: Very straightforward. very prescriptive. Love it.
• 31:14
  Peter Lap: It's so yeah. But that's
• 31:17
  Philip Pape: why that's the thing, that least sexiest solutions are usually the most effective. So we know how to maybe recognize it, we know why it happens. We know the differences when you are training versus not training and the importance of strength training, not just cardio and walking. And then you mentioned the the recovery period. Besides that form of recovery, you talked about the rehab is there are there any other strategies for recovery, and not eating apples, if that doesn't work for you.
• 31:45
  Peter Lap: The main strategy for recovery is kind of still keep challenging your body as whenever you can. So that's something that we tend to forget quite a lot. As personal trainers in gyms at least, you know, everybody listening to this will probably have signed up to a gym at one stage. And you get your induction with a personal trainer this way, usually you get your first free program from the gym, right?
• 32:10
  Peter Lap: These are exercises you need to do. And they'll say that this is a program and then you do the program for free for five months. Right. And that's usually one session that is not an actual program, they usually give you a session plan exercises new for a month and then say come back to me in a month's time, and I'll sell you a new one. And no one shows up for a second appointment, right, because all of a sudden, it's gonna cost you money, and all this sort of thing. The issue is that if you do the same stuff that you're meant to do for a week, or two weeks, or three weeks or a month, for four or five, six months, you're wasting your time for at least four months of that. Because you're not challenging yourself. And the whole point of this is that any good program has to be progressive. And that includes for postpartum exercise that includes doing the things you want to do. One of the things that I used to forget a lot about is that, you know, I used to be one of those guys that said, hit high intensity interval training. That's the best way to do it. Man. That's amazing. That's the most effective way of training. And I'm kind of completely in a different camp. It's amazing to love hit, you do it every day.
• 33:15
  Peter Lap: That's phenomenal. You do hit once a week or you do Zumba classes seven times a week.
• 33:21
  Peter Lap: Zumba is going to do more for you than the hit classes. Not as a standalone, but as the results you'll get from constantly and consistently doing Exercise and Movement. That's a no brainer.
• 33:34
  Peter Lap: So make sure that if you like kettlebell stuff, there isn't anything scary about a kettlebell swing, if you postpartum if your glutes are working your coursework and go take a kettlebell class, do your thing. Any exercise you have, and this is the biggest takeaway and anyone can get I think from any sort of postpartum thing.
• 33:51
  Peter Lap: Once your muscles are working nicely, you can do whatever you want. And that is essential because it means you can go back to the gym. If you'd like to kettlebell classes, if you'd like to deadlift, I've heard so many stories about people saying I can't hold a plank postpartum because I have diastasis recti.
• 34:08
  Peter Lap: Right, your your your muscles working. Yes, that means the plank will help heal your diastasis recti. strengthening muscles up is an essential part of a rehab program that lifts I had clients that gave birth to twins so that the plan C section and one of my clients was squatting 100 kg, the day before him today. one rep. We didn't go nuts. She just wanted to make sure you know she wants to she wants to go in to the O R. And she was a surgeon herself. She was so she was going to be operated on
• 34:42
  Philip Pape: by her colleagues two plates. That's two plates for people to 25 for America.
• 34:44
  Philip Pape: Yeah,
• 34:46
  Peter Lap: yeah, exactly. So so.
• 34:46
  Peter Lap: So I mean, that is she wants to walk into the hospital and just go come off. So I still squatted 100 kg the day before the day for postpartum. So Over a month that she just back to squatting 40 kg. She couldn't go back to 100 the body wasn't ready for it yet. But if you'd like to squat because what doesn't matter and you slowly but surely and you keep an eye on what you're doing any exercise, absolutely any exercise helps with your postpartum recovery. As long as you don't overdo it.
• 35:21
  Philip Pape: I love it. I love it. I mean, so many things, you said, there's gold, you mentioned progression, we talk about progressive overload all the time. in different contexts.
• 35:28
  Philip Pape: You mentioned, don't be afraid of any particular movement, if you do it right. And it's at the right level of where you're at.
• 35:36
  Philip Pape: I mean, treat treat the pregnancy, like a kind of like an injury or like a disruption or detraining event. And work back into it. You probably like my my former client, she was a tireless hero. She was also on the podcast a couple times.
• 35:50
  Philip Pape: She's powerlifter here in Connecticut, and she was posting video right up into, you know, a week before she was, you know, had a baby of just lifting, lifting everything, you know, lighter weights, because by the time you like you said right before pregnancy, you tend to dial it back a little you don't want to over brace and things.
• 36:05
  Philip Pape: But that's a great message for people because we do use excuses, all of us have whatever it is, and I think lifting weights is never a bad thing.
• 36:17
  Philip Pape: Unless you have an injury that that's preventing it. So good, good message. You know, it's it's awesome. Ya know, we're in agreement, I'd have to kick you off the show.
• 36:28
  Unknown: All right, this is our and I just want to give a shout out to Philip Pape at Wits & Weights for his nutritional coaching. His coaching is based upon science research, intellect, and wisdom. His coaching is safe, supportive, connecting. And an actually has helped reset my compass in terms of how I direct my health, the action steps I do, and really, really has helped me regain trust and belief in what my body can do and how my body can change.
• 37:01
  Philip Pape: Okay, so another side topic to this is the pressure to lose the baby weight. Because I know we're gonna get into some things. Some of them are controversial topics and maybe Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah, the pressure to lose baby weight that's very pervasive.
• 37:16
  Philip Pape: Should this be on the list of priorities for women postpartum like wanting to lose weight, and I understand everybody has a vanity, or everybody has different reasons, and vanity can be one and that's fine. But But what are your thoughts on this in general,
• 37:29
  Peter Lap: but generally speaking, and I always tell people this because most women don't notice what happens during your antenatal class is, most women go to an antenatal class and if you're your wife or kids, you got to get it right your dance and be basically just yet exchanged phone number. So you can have coffee mornings with women postpartum because the the messages you pick up in most antenatal classes are nonsense.
• 37:56
  Peter Lap: And they're rather toxic. Okay, because there'll be messages such as breastfeeding will help you lose weight. No, it won't.
• 38:03
  Peter Lap: Breastfeeding has never helped anyone loses weight to lose weight, it will bring some calories. Yeah, we can eat eat to compensate for that. Right.
• 38:08
  Peter Lap: So it is it's breastfeeding is a zero sum game, it genuinely is if you do it, right. The reason I always tell people tell women to not focus on weight loss postpartum is because you still have all those hormones flowing through your body. And breastfeeding is a part of that.
• 38:27
  Peter Lap: Prolactin, for instance, which is the hormone that helps you produce foreign breast milk will make you gain five to 10 pounds.
• 38:36
  Peter Lap: For every woman in the world, that is true. So how are you going to fight that postpartum?
• 38:42
  Peter Lap: How are you going to if you want to lose a baby 510 pounds isn't going anywhere,
• 38:48
  Philip Pape: right? You're gonna starve you're gonna be an energy deficiency to do it. Yeah.
• 38:51
  Peter Lap: And now you have a baby that needs nutrients. And so I once wrote, and I think I copied it somewhere onto my new website as well. I once wrote an article called your baby is a parasite. That got me a lot of angry emails. But there's a lot of truth to it. As my parents, I don't mean anything bad about it. I just been the babies will get nutrients from your body.
• 39:14
  Peter Lap: Right? So if you are under fed and and undernourished, especially undernourished.
• 39:17
  Peter Lap: Where's your kid going to get all this healthy stuff? Right.
• 39:20
  Peter Lap: And this is why I find a lot of the time. You see a lot of women obviously they're they're sleep deprived and all that sort of stuff. They're walking around, not quite looking. They don't have their natural glow anymore, because they've been so focused on losing weight and not not focused on eating right, that they become nutrient deficient.
• 39:46
  Peter Lap: They just are the baby will take a lot of this stuff. And this is not talking about breastfeeding.
• 39:50
  Peter Lap: Breastfeeding is in an ideal world. People can feel breast milk is the better way over formula and all that sort of stuff. If you can help if you can do it. That's an awesome way to do it. but it makes weight loss as a very silly thing to focus on, is what I make, I don't like to be harsh about this sort of stuff because I understand that women have a tremendous amount of pressure put on them to bounce back and all that sort of stuff, you know, in a way that I can never understands, I understand that.
• 40:20
  Peter Lap: But to focus on that is just insane. And the more we move away from the and this is, again, the National Health Service in the UK advice is this on their website is to burn some calories go for a walk.
• 40:33
  Peter Lap: Postpartum is not about focusing on burning calories. And we all know as as personal trainers, the best way to actually burn some calories to some muscle, gain some muscles and do your strength training, and have your basal metabolic rate go up and you can sit on your bum and burn more calories.
• 40:54
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I was gonna go there. I was like this is it's kind of like when we periodized our nutrition and some days like because at least from a man's perspective, you know, I want to put on that power belly as I'm building muscle. And I'm cool with it, because I know it's building muscle. But yeah, both while you're in pregnancy, because again, I've had some clients that while they were pregnant, you know, we're like, we're not losing weight, we have to gain weight. So let's just intentionally make the most of that. And then after you're pregnant during breastfeeding, like you said, treating it as a muscle building phase is a beautiful way to do it. Because now it's serving all your goals, and not going against you in the nutrition and health department.
• 41:30
  Philip Pape: The stuff about you know, breastfeeding, we won't get into all the all of that. Yeah, but what about people who know? And that's fine. Now. I mean, I think everybody knows that today. Right? That's yeah, yeah.
• 41:39
  Philip Pape: And not everybody can do it. And there's reasons you can't do it that are for various reasons, right? And some women aren't able to. So that's fine. You know, my, actually, our first daughter couldn't keep down anything. And so we had to supplement. You know, there's all these different Yeah,
• 41:54
  Peter Lap: exactly. There's completely the January system. I always say that your job is keeping your baby alive in the best way. Yes. Anything after that? I don't care about that.
• 42:03
  Philip Pape: So what about? So now what about if a woman is not breastfeeding? Does that that whole thing go out the window are there so other reasons to not rush into thinking about weight loss?
• 42:15
  Peter Lap: Well, I always think that, you know, when we have to prioritize in life, we have to decide what is important to us.
• 42:23
  Peter Lap: And we do the things we can do, when I don't know about you, but when I work with clients who tend to be sleep deprived, as a lot of new moms are like, who have high stress levels, potentially high anxiety, high anxiety, or high depression levels, or whatever, just elevated levels of anxiety, because all of a sudden, you know, things are things you never used to worry about, such as driving a car through city center are a lot more scary with a new baby in the back of the car. Because all of a sudden is this guy gonna stop he's gonna crash into an executive that was a little bit higher. So you know, the hormonal response. I don't. I will say there's people that are anxious state struggle to lose weight more than people who are relaxed and chilled about this is why I have a ton of clients that they go to Dubai on holiday for a couple of weeks, and they come back later than they were when they were working 8090 hour weeks
• 43:22
  Philip Pape: due to their expenditure just jumps. Yeah,
• 43:25
  Peter Lap: they've been stuffing their face. And then but they've been chilling on the beach, living switches. It's amazing.
• 43:31
  Peter Lap: It's a genuine, it's a genuine thing. I'm not making this up the list. So and then we have to prioritize stuff. I have to prioritize my gym time and my work and my family and all that sort of stuff. So I want to do the thing that is going to get me the most bang for my buck.
• 43:47
  Peter Lap: And that is simply get your rehab training done first.
• 43:51
  Peter Lap: Right, get your strength training done first make sure your body functions well.
• 43:59
  Peter Lap: Because part of raising a new healthy human being is being as pleasant to be around them as possible. And what I find is that when you're comfortable, my confidence is loved by looking at my own family My confidence is low because I'm feeling crap or I'm in pain. Have you heard of the pain cycle? You know, when you're in pain, it gets a bit worse. And you know as a nation, that that type of stuff.
• 44:25
  Peter Lap: You start to take that out on people not deliberately I'm not saying you shouted your wife or your spouse or your kid or your you do silly things, but your mood is not what it should be.
• 44:36
  Peter Lap: So part of raising a healthy human being is having the most caring and nurturing environment and taking care of yourself is a huge part of the on weight loss doesn't really come into them.
• 44:49
  Peter Lap: It is just not part of that discussion for me bots Python.
• 44:53
  Peter Lap: If you if you don't breastfeed or eat Want to express? Can you lose weight? Yes, sure. But should it be your focus? Right?
• 45:02
  Peter Lap: In my opinion? Not Not unless you're preparing for a movie, right? If you're Margot Robbie going to do Barbie, you get 10 or 21st and a million bucks, then it's your job.
• 45:12
  Philip Pape: Yeah, like, like you said, it depends on your goals and whether it's serving you and your life. I do love how you talked about stress, overall life stress, chronic stress as a sort of tax on your body, or some firm term that I sometimes use is like your energy stack, your metabolic stack, it's like you want to build this nice, big robust tower of, of energy production in your body, rather than trying to cut and restrict and lose, because at the end of the day, like you said, you may just naturally, slowly get back to the way you want to be anyway. But you're doing it in a healthy, abundant way, not a restrictive way. But the whole thing about anxiety and depression does lead to the other question I wanted to ask about, which is postpartum depression. Because we know this affects a lot of women. I saw the statistics recently, I want to say it's anywhere from like one and eight to two and eight, something like that. The numbers are huge. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah.
• 46:03
  Philip Pape: And even beyond that, in some smaller level, and I've had many women in my life who experienced various levels of this, some to the point where they couldn't be with the child for a bit, you know, is that serious? And there's a lot of gaslighting. I mean, talking about women's health, and talking about like, just, there's differences between generations I've seen or like how older generations like act like it doesn't exist. And then anyway, how do you help your clients cope with this, because it does come into the equation comes into the stress anxiety. And this
• 46:33
  Peter Lap: is a huge issue. And we because we say things like one and eight and two and eight, and you're right, those are the stats, we forget just how huge that number really is. When we're talking actual numbers, like the small city I live in 600,000 people 600,000 5000 babies are born every year to fortify from the different routes or something like that means out of those 40 545, almost 1000 will suffer from PPD. That's just the 600,000. So city, the numbers are astronomically huge. And the deed like you said, there is a this is real. Well, let me put it this way. One of my clients, you won't mind me mentioning this. She had baby number five, and cover two sets of twins and then then a fifth by a standalone baby, so to speak.
• 47:24
  Peter Lap: And she didn't cope with it particularly well. Her husband referred to it as yes, she has the baby observes. And I'm like, Dude, I want to I want to kill you right now. The baby blues?
• 47:35
  Peter Lap: Are we still using that phrase?
• 47:41
  Peter Lap: It Yeah, more, especially when you're talking about people that suffer from intrusive thoughts, as they call it these days? Not necessarily. I want to harm myself. But you know, we can talk a lot can go wrong. When you're when you're feeling that way. I always say that. And this goes for all my clients.
• 47:58
  Peter Lap: Exercise should never be stressed. If our sessions planned with my clients, and they say, last minute, dude, I want to cancel. I'm not I'm not afraid today. Don't worry about it. I don't have a cancellation policy. Unless you text me say, I cannot be bothered because I got drunk last night. I charged for that session, because that's punishment for you for your sins. There you go. Anything else I don't tend to charge for, because of the clientele that I work with. Right. So a lot of the time when I have one hour session going to help us regularly save lots of time regularly. The women will have just bathe the baby cleaned the baby out for me come to the house to do a lot of my clients have home gyms and all that sort of stuff. I go to their houses.
• 48:42
  Peter Lap: And the baby froze up last minute. And now we have to start the whole process again. So now she's running around like a maniac because Peter is coming in 15 minutes time. Just send me a text, I'll be 15 I'll sit in the car for 15 minutes, do your thing. It's no big deal.
• 49:01
  Peter Lap: Removing stress from anyone who suffers from postpartum depression is just a small thing. But it can really help. I just don't want to be part of the problem. I love that. Yeah.
• 49:12
  Philip Pape: See how you can help or at least not interfere?
• 49:15
  Philip Pape: Because I've seen Yeah, I've seen that too. Like, you know, people who are close to the person was wondering why they're not XYZ wondering why they're not responding to me or letting me visit or this or that. It's like, just back off, you know, like they need a little space.
• 49:28
  Philip Pape: Right?
• 49:29
  Peter Lap: Yeah, just Yeah, exactly. Just just respect that.
• 49:33
  Peter Lap: I don't have the solution for anyone's postpartum depression.
• 49:36
  Peter Lap: Now that you know, that's what doctors are for in psychiatry, cynicism. But I can indeed at least not be part of the problem. So I chill. You want to cancel last minute to get canceled last minutes. I've got paperwork to do it is fine. It's never a big deal. And I made that very clear to my clients.
• 49:53
  Peter Lap: So they they don't need to feel guilty about that. Because like I said, that doesn't necessarily Go for old PT. So if I'm working with if it were to work with a bodybuilder and he cancels last minute, he's just being a jackass.
• 50:06
  Philip Pape: Yeah, or compassion that you need for this group of people. I want to respect your time because I know technology wise we got started late Do you have? Yeah, okay, I'll be good.
• 50:17
  Philip Pape: Good. All right, cool. Just Just a few more. So another, well, maybe not controversial, but I think you've mentioned the health and fitness industry is just like ripping off postpartum women, I want you to want to, to elaborate on that.
• 50:31
  Peter Lap: This is something I've found in that it's really odd when we see especially online, because the online obviously people listen to podcasts and all that sort of stuff. So what I find online is that if I want to do a bodybuilding program, or a get fit, weight loss tech program, I pay 69 bucks, right? It doesn't matter which one you go to, you can go to ATHLEAN X, you can go to anyone just got
• 50:56
  Philip Pape: 60 969 4797
• 51:00
  Peter Lap: all over the place.
• 51:00
  Peter Lap: It's always down from 200 bucks to 69.
• 51:04
  Philip Pape: Off promotion, as always, exactly.
• 51:08
  Peter Lap: Look for postpartum stuff and find the one that is below 150 bucks.
• 51:12
  Philip Pape: Okay, okay.
• 51:12
  Philip Pape: 297 497. Yeah,
• 51:16
  Peter Lap: the real value, one of my, one of my colleagues had something online saying my program is worth $2,500. I will sell it to you for 250 bucks, or$500, or whatever was the biggest selling those pricing program in the world. And I won't name it here because I don't want to crap on anyone's great, but the biggest selling point of selling in the world has had 18 price fluctuations that I know of in the past five years, they started off at 100, then they thought that we can get away with charging 200 pounds. So $300 The last one that I called them out on because I sent them an email was 99 pounds. So that's what 120 bucks for a year access. This is a 12 week program. 12 modules they call it now but it's a 12 week program. Or you can pay 30 bucks a month. And I said what about people that don't have 100 bucks in sitting in their account? Write it because all most of these programs do what I do. And they talk about how they like to help women. Yeah, but if you only like to help wealthy women, then how realistically would you really like to do and for an online programs, I'm not talking about again, I'm not talking about face to face PT face to face PT is a different thing. And when you're dealing with travel time and all that sort of stuff. But for online programs, there is no reason why a postpartum rehab program should be more expensive than a weight loss program. It's a bunch of videos. It is not it is not extraordinary.
• 52:52
  Philip Pape: It's the level of the level of desperation is probably a lot higher causing that demand right you will
• 52:57
  Peter Lap: and that's the thing and when you look at most of these things that are sold and this is part of the whole unethical practices for me is that the idea that a lot of these people say well when I was pregnant I had to find all this stuff out for myself and therefore I decided to put together the bla bla bla the program like no you didn't have to find anything else for yourself because
• 53:22
  Philip Pape: I know you're gonna market it Are you kidding me if you want to go down that rabbit hole Peter you could you could tear off
• 53:27
  Peter Lap: you can do because what they're selling is that you can look like me sort of thing quite often but I'll definitely get I completely get it but I can't look like the rock because first of all genetically I'm not the same I don't have access to his level of money. I don't do it there's a full time job and I don't take a GA but I said allegedly Oh they'll drain Johnson sewing news probably good from
• 53:53
  Philip Pape: that for me. we all we all love them we all love them but we know
• 53:56
  Peter Lap: absolutely nothing but we all know he takes off. So and unless you live that life and it's part of the unethical program that practices I think when a 20 year old has never had a kid says you can look like me to a mom was in her 40s Who said faith is just not going to happen.
• 54:15
  Philip Pape: You know my only challenge to that and not not not on the supply demand thing because you can be a cold hard capitalist and say that that's what it is. Is isn't this just isn't as widespread regardless.
• 54:25
  Philip Pape: In other words, I don't necessarily want to give a free pass to any other part of the health and fitness industry. I feel like oh though the Healthy Weight Loss This is not the right find the right angle and niche of like desperation to hold on like we're going to take your pain and we're just going to shove your face in this you know bowl of pain until you realize you have to
• 54:49
  Peter Lap: know Yeah, absolutely right. And you know, I'm okay with almost all of that. Usually in the Alpha fitness industry.
• 54:57
  Peter Lap: The reason I struggle with it is because We're dealing with health issues for a wide group of people, like if like you, if your shoulder, your shoulder, if your shoulder is causing you a tremendous amount of pain, and there's a ton of people selling shoulder rehab programs, but then deliberately overcharging for what I think is a health issue that you can't help, then it becomes slightly different from saying, is just another weight loss program. But I find
• 55:25
  Philip Pape: it's, you know, it's an elective kind of thing.
• 55:29
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 55:29
  Peter Lap: And you're completely right in that the problem isn't with the health and fitness industry, the health and fitness industry does what it does. And that's make money from a certain level of desperation. That's why I go to the gym. If I could eat Domino's all day feel great to take a little bit, we want our problems. Yes, I think that for sure. The problem is, with the support not being there when it comes to healthcare systems and insurance providers and all that sort of stuff. But if that was freely available, like I think it should be like I think it would be this as a non problem.
• 55:59
  Peter Lap: Right? You Can I can I have private medical insurance, I have the state one and I've private this off, I can get almost anything I want to be just go to the doctor. And as I've got private insurance, he says what do you want, pick it go but different. If you look at France, and Germany and several other countries, when you're postpartum you get six sessions or eight sessions, depending on where you are with a postpartum health specialist, whether it's dog floor or whether that is something that doesn't I do, okay. That means there's no one in in France selling this stuff is unethical. But the fitness industry has evolved, because it's healthcare. And that's kind of where I struggle with that sort of thing.
• 56:46
  Philip Pape: I understand. Yeah.
• 56:46
  Philip Pape: And there's huge differences between the UK, the US systems as well. And so many health, I think of like just lifting weights, I would love for insurance to cover strength training, but it's too, it's too it's not short sighted enough for them, you know, for them, they have to tie it directly to some like immediate disease.
• 57:07
  Philip Pape: It's like the weight loss drugs that have come out, we'll go in the other ones, you know, now that they know that it reduces the risk of heart disease, because you're helping a bunch of people lose weight, whatever you're feeling on using that versus making lifestyle choices, that's a different thing. So now the insurance companies are forced to look at that as oh, maybe we should cover it, because it's actually going to save us money down the road, when people are not getting heart attacks. And maybe if they can make that connection that but that's the insurance company, man, we're not going to solve that. And
• 57:36
  Peter Lap: that's exactly right.
• 57:36
  Peter Lap: I did an interview with someone a while ago about exactly that.
• 57:38
  Peter Lap: She was asking me what I was going to do more research into this. And so now that the research we have to do is how much money will it save people to give women access to this stuff? Yeah, for free. And that can be an I look at this as a women's equality issue. If you're looking at the gender pay gap and all that it's a part of that is going back to the office, feeling confident within yourself feeling happy within yourself, not being yourself and looking your best feeling your best. So that after a year, you can go back into to your bosses obviously you can have a pay rise now.
• 58:12
  Philip Pape: Is it the same with postpartum depression? In the industry?
• 58:15
  Peter Lap: Yes, they're much.
• 58:15
  Peter Lap: Yeah, very much. Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:19
  Philip Pape: Yeah. All right.
• 58:19
  Philip Pape: Well, some some heavy stuff to think about it. You know, I'm curious for people listening should definitely reach out to both of us about your thoughts on this. Because, you know, we're two guys with two opinions, hopefully, well informed with a lot of information that we objectively, you know, analyze and try to be compassionate about, but everybody has their opinions and our experiences. So, I did want to ask you one more thing, and that's about your podcast, the healthy postnatal body podcast.
• 58:45
  Philip Pape: What are some because your 200 Something episodes now?
• 58:49
  Peter Lap: I just for next week is 226. So this weekend will be to 25
• 58:54
  Philip Pape: Oh, so 225 Two plates. All right. So yeah, so you're getting your past into the string phase? Yeah. What would you say are some of the biggest insights or surprises? I know, it's a big question, because you had a lot of episodes, but is there one thing that sticks out is highly memorable that, you know, changed your perspective or taught you something that you now carry with you, Florida?
• 59:16
  Philip Pape: Yeah,
• 59:16
  Peter Lap: that's a good question. I for a long time, I looked at this as a this whole fun thing. I was I was your typical, I guess difficult PT from the personal changes I see around me. I thought, okay, I do this, why doesn't anybody understand that this is essential, right? The same way lots of PTS look at strength training, and and all that sort of stuff. And the more people I spoke to, whether they were psychologists or parenting experts, or whatever they were, the more it made me realize is that people have so much stuff happening in their life that All I can all I can get, especially postpartum women, there's so much more happening than what I ever thought, it's that that mental load of being a parent is a, you'll notice that the mental load of just being a parent and having to do all the things you already have to do, and then add a whole layer of human beings on to that, and different relationships between spouses and all our citizens how to navigate that new world. I mean, I remember what it was like for when, and I'm not comparing the two, just a little bit. When my wife and I got like a dog for the first time. It changes the thing, also, you're just talking about poop, and walkies, and all that sort of stuff all the time.
• 1:00:39
  Peter Lap: And I thought that the postpartum recovery bid was significantly more important than it actually turned out to be. And I'm not saying that it isn't important, I just thought it was more important than it tends to be for the people actually go through some recovery. And I think I think this stuff is so it meant that I had to change my approach to postpartum training. And that's why it matters, right? So I used to say to people do two to free sessions, 45 minutes with me a week, and you come to my studio, and other very nice studios, amazing, I was all set up, not realizing that means putting them baby and preparing the journey that's half an hour to get there. Praying, the kid stays for too quiet for 45 minutes and go on back. So I ask these women to give up two to three, two hour slots a week for their postpartum recovery. That is insane. And it's just so unfair when you think about just asking somebody and saying the only way you can do this is if you come to my studio and do it that way. And then so I had to complete the lock change, my approach to exercises stays the same. But I had to use find a different way, you have to be able to do it as part of recovery thing you have to be able to do at home. Because you have to be to be able to do it in a short period of time, because nobody has an hour, three times will be we just don't mean I can barely get myself to the gym three times a week
• 1:02:12
  Philip Pape: for an hour and have a home gym for that reason.
• 1:02:14
  Philip Pape: Yeah, well, 20 minute
• 1:02:15
  Peter Lap: sessions, I don't want to do an hour three times a week, I want 720 minute sessions, or whatever it is.
• 1:02:22
  Peter Lap: Out. So I'd be less equipment.
• 1:02:22
  Peter Lap: And that meant making stuff easier for people because I just had to change my whole approach to this stuff and realizing that if people don't think this is important to them in the moment, it's not important for them, it's fine. If you've got other things to do. That is okay.
• 1:02:40
  Peter Lap: Don't put it off forever. But just realize that when you have things like this as a director, you can wait a year before you addressed it, it is fine. If you don't do it within the first year postpartum. There's no biggie, we'll fix it. We'll sorted just do the exercises a year later, when you can squeeze it just chill about all because it's
• 1:02:58
  Philip Pape: a priority. Yeah, no stress, no stress, no stress and finding a way to make it easier for the client. Which is funny because I have an online coach. And same thing, like I don't want to make all my clients constantly schedule calls, when it's easier to send them videos or when it's easier to like do it asynchronously, because I'm like, You know what, that's stress. So that's pretty cool. I love that I it's not something I thought you were gonna say that I was gonna be some very specific, you know, technical thing or topic.
• 1:03:25
  Philip Pape: Awesome. Um, last question I asked this of all guests, Peter.
• 1:03:29
  Philip Pape: And that is, is there something you wish I had asked you? And what is
• 1:03:32
  Peter Lap: your answer? Well, the thing is, you've covered an absolute ton of stuff. Of all the of all the interviews I've done, you're definitely you know, indigenous and well prepared, and all that sort of stuff. So that's awesome. I think, you know, the, the thing.
• 1:03:48
  Peter Lap: The, what are other postnatal issues that need an easy solution, back pain, neck pain, and all that sort of stuff. And how are they linked? is good.
• 1:04:05
  Peter Lap: But again, it's a specific question. Unless you're a physio, you're not going to ask it because, you know, don't know that this. And that's pretty much it. They're not realizing that for anybody listening, back pain, those parts of back pain to start a neck pain, all that stuff, postpartum. stiffness, and other stuff can all be linked back to things like diastasis recti, on a given birth, and a weak pelvic floor and all that sort of stuff and all this stuff. All this stuff.
• 1:04:36
  Peter Lap: My answer is that is a solution for and it's not complicated.
• 1:04:40
  Peter Lap: None of this stuff is rocket science. A lot of and that's easy to say because I've been doing this for 10 to 12 years.
• 1:04:46
  Peter Lap: So I'm very familiar. I can knock you've been the PTE for a while you can take a position plan in five minutes because you have years and years of expertise.
• 1:04:54
  Philip Pape: You like ABC and I had to get you from here to there but
• 1:04:57
  Peter Lap: client says I can't do this today. I want to do Something else awesome. Give me five minutes, we'll be fine. But But let's focus on recovery isn't isn't rocket science. It's not complicated. But we have to address all these issues in one, one little ball. And that that is kind of the thing, we have to do more than just focus on the TVA. And focus on includes if you have to do everything in one go. If that comes anywhere close to what your question actually was that
• 1:05:26
  Philip Pape: there's no wrong answer to that, because you just told me a question you wished I would have. So there you go. All right. Well, you're a cool guy, Peter. And I imagine your clients that love working with you, because just I mean, the energy I get from you, and for those listening and watching hopefully get the same thing as a guy who cares who does have the solutions, even if they aren't rocket science can get you quickly to that and is willing to help and is available to help. So where can listeners learn more about you and your work? And that includes, who around the world can get access to you? Or is it local? Or do it online?
• 1:05:59
  Peter Lap: Yeah, this is this is the big thing for me. So a few years ago, I was indeed just a personal trainer around Edinburgh and I had loads of questions. So I set up a website called Health postnatal body.com, handy title podcast kind of big on that, and it was very much we do assess on the Jordan Defense for Health, postnatal, bodyart, calm and, and and all the other postpartum websites. You know, the 13 week 12 week program I talked about earlier that someone says Pay 99 pound a month or a year, I give it to you for free, it doesn't cost you a penny you sign up, you get three months free trial, right? And beauty so you can cancel on day one, you still get three months free access. Then after the three months, the program goes deeper because it goes into back pain and neck pain and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:06:42
  Peter Lap: And then I charge $10 A month or eight pounds a month depending on where you are for five months, and that's the total copy of lifetime access. And that includes emailing me Peter and healthy postnatal bodyart comm i get emails every week from people saying, hey, how do I do this exercise completely free is all included. The reason I did that is when you're asking who can access it. Not everybody lives in the UK in the US and has a high level of disposable income. I have a ton of Eastern European members that eight to$10 a month isn't a lot of money for most Americans. It's not a lot of money for most British people. It is a tremendous amount of money for people living in certain parts of Asia and all that sort of stuff. So that I just said this, you pay you pay nothing for three months. Make sure you cancel on day one if you've never gone to pay, don't say that with a state credit card, right? Because you can buy those things out say credit cards and after three months they fail I get charged for that stuff. You sign up on day one to pay dollar whatever cancel on day one you get three months free I still ask the emails I don't care and so healthy postnatal volume comm that's where everybody can get access to the full program. Like I said the program is I think I just added month 12 Or something like that because after four months of progress let's up into what you want to work on.
• 1:08:03
  Peter Lap: Glutes, core of asanas of legs, shoulders, whatever you want to work on. But you know, sign up for three months and then go away it's also completely fine.
• 1:08:14
  Peter Lap: And of course alphaplus natively podcast is out there for your listening entertainment every Sunday night at 6pm. UK time so both at 1pm Eastern
• 1:08:24
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that sounds about right yeah so five hours Yeah, perfect. So anybody listening you're on your on your podcast app right now go and follow or subscribe healthy postnatal body podcast right now that's the easiest thing for you to do. And then the next easiest thing to do is if you or someone you love or woman in your life you think needs the help with what Peter offers for postpartum recovery. It sounds like you couldn't get a better bargain then free for 90 days and then it's up to you. I promoted way more expensive things in that for guests and others so go for it jump in there's no risk.
• 1:08:58
  Philip Pape: Awesome very great conversation Peter so much really good information that I wasn't aware of. It's gonna help me and my clients and other women I know so I'm sure the listeners got a ton from it as well. Thank you for coming on my
• 1:09:08
  Peter Lap: absolute pleasure, man. It's been phenomenal.
• 1:09:13
  Philip Pape: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them.
• 1:09:25
  Philip Pape: And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.