Latest / Where We Rise / 25| "Meet Them Where They Are" | Advocating for Adults with Autism

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25| "Meet Them Where They Are" | Advocating for Adults with Autism · Where We Rise

• 0:00
  Khalila McCoy: Hey, I'm Khalila McCoy, and you're listening to the show that reminds you you are not alone.
• 0:07
  Khalila McCoy: This is Where We Rise.
• 0:10
  Khalila McCoy: Hey, welcome back to Where We Rise.
• 0:14
  Khalila McCoy: We've officially reached the last week of July.
• 0:17
  Khalila McCoy: And if you're an educator, you already know what that means.
• 0:20
  Khalila McCoy: Summer is basically over.
• 0:22
  Khalila McCoy: I don't care what the weather is doing outside, the target school supply aisles are full, the emails are rolling in, and starting next week, I will be back in full school mode, preparing for a brand new school year.
• 0:35
  Khalila McCoy: I already know some of you are back full mode already.
• 0:39
  Khalila McCoy: It's a bittersweet season, so make sure you check in on your teacher friends.
• 0:44
  Khalila McCoy: But to honor back to school season, I wanted these next few episodes to relate to school, but also teach us something about others.
• 0:54
  Khalila McCoy: So that curiosity led me to today's guest, April Ratchford.
• 0:59
  Khalila McCoy: She's an autistic occupational therapist, a mother, and the host of a podcast, Adulting with Autism.
• 1:07
  Khalila McCoy: In this conversation, April and I touch on some things such as diagnoses and emotional realities of parenting a neurodivergent young adult as she walks us through her son's journey from struggling in college to finding the right support.
• 1:22
  Khalila McCoy: She shares practical insights about what autistic teens and adults actually need as a transition into the real world.
• 1:30
  Khalila McCoy: April's honesty, humor, and lived experience make this conversation engaging from start to finish.
• 1:37
  Khalila McCoy: Let's listen.
• 1:38
  Khalila McCoy: Hi, April.
• 1:41
  Khalila McCoy: Welcome to the show.
• 1:42
  Khalila McCoy: Hello, thank you for having me.
• 1:45
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, I'm really excited that you're here.
• 1:47
  Khalila McCoy: So I shared with you before, I actually saw you on a show of a previous guest of mine.
• 1:54
  Khalila McCoy: And in that episode, you guys were talking about adulting with autism.
• 1:58
  Khalila McCoy: And I really liked the way that you reframed autism, not as a deficit, but just as a different way of experiencing the world.
• 2:06
  Khalila McCoy: And I thought that was really powerful.
• 2:08
  Khalila McCoy: And I think the more we understand neurodivergence through that lens, the better we can support and help each other and grow.
• 2:15
  Khalila McCoy: So that's why I asked you to come on.
• 2:17
  Khalila McCoy: And I'm so excited you said yes.
• 2:19
  Khalila McCoy: So if you can start off, I don't know a lot about you either.
• 2:24
  Khalila McCoy: I'm learning along with my listeners.
• 2:25
  Khalila McCoy: So go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be so passionate about this topic.
• 2:32
  April Ratchford: So I'm April Ratchford.
• 2:35
  April Ratchford: I am an autistic occupational therapist.
• 2:38
  April Ratchford: I am late diagnosed.
• 2:40
  April Ratchford: I have a 24-year-old son who is also autistic and has spina bifida.
• 2:46
  April Ratchford: And what I have gone through with him through the years and transitioning him into adulthood, I found out there's nothing there for them.
• 2:59
  April Ratchford: Like he went to college at 19, failed out, and I couldn't find anything to help him transition.
• 3:10
  April Ratchford: We didn't get anything when he graduated high school.
• 3:14
  April Ratchford: And as an OT, I don't do pediatrics for a reason.
• 3:20
  April Ratchford: I am in long-term care rehab.
• 3:23
  April Ratchford: So I was navigating this on my own.
• 3:27
  April Ratchford: I was like, there's no OT out here, like helping parents transition kids into adulthood.
• 3:33
  April Ratchford: And I got frustrated because my son was getting depressed and he didn't know where to go.
• 3:40
  April Ratchford: I didn't know where to go.
• 3:41
  April Ratchford: He just blew $10,000 because they took advantage of him.
• 3:46
  April Ratchford: And I was like, fine, I'm gonna start a podcast and bring on guests that could help other autistic young adults transition into the adult world.
• 3:57
  April Ratchford: Like whether it be mental health or relationships, sexual intimacy, all the things they didn't get in school that they should have gotten.
• 4:07
  April Ratchford: And here I am.
• 4:09
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 4:10
  Khalila McCoy: Well, no, I like that.
• 4:13
  Khalila McCoy: I like that you're I always think it's very admirable when people take a situation that they're going through, improve their situation, but don't just stop there.
• 4:22
  Khalila McCoy: They say, How can I help other people?
• 4:24
  Khalila McCoy: So I like that you're doing that as well.
• 4:26
  Khalila McCoy: So let's back up first to you.
• 4:28
  Khalila McCoy: You said that you were late diagnosed.
• 4:31
  Khalila McCoy: When were you diagnosed then?
• 4:33
  April Ratchford: So it's funny because a lot of women don't really get diagnosed correctly until we hit menopause.
• 4:42
  April Ratchford: And I was doing this, the more I kept doing my podcast, the more boxes I kept ticking.
• 4:48
  April Ratchford: And I was like, oh, maybe I'm autistic.
• 4:53
  April Ratchford: So I look at my baby book.
• 4:55
  April Ratchford: I didn't speak until I was two and a half years of age.
• 5:00
  April Ratchford: I had speech all through like first and second grade.
• 5:04
  April Ratchford: I have my own idiosyncrasies about things.
• 5:08
  April Ratchford: I have my own meltdowns.
• 5:09
  April Ratchford: I was like, well, this makes sense.
• 5:12
  Khalila McCoy: It's like all coming together.
• 5:14
  April Ratchford: Yeah.
• 5:14
  April Ratchford: I was like, well.
• 5:16
  Khalila McCoy: So you didn't really notice what you were going through until you start helping your son?
• 5:21
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 5:22
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 5:23
  Khalila McCoy: So then did you have to bring it to your doctor and say, hey, this is these are all the things that I'm noticing?
• 5:28
  Khalila McCoy: Uh, not really, because my doctor is like, well, you're an occupational therapist, you would know.
• 5:34
  April Ratchford: And I was like, Yeah.
• 5:35
  April Ratchford: Yeah.
• 5:36
  April Ratchford: So, because I should have figured it out when I was in my master's program because I could not get through my AMP test without zoning out after hour one.
• 5:51
  April Ratchford: And my best friend was like, I don't understand.
• 5:53
  April Ratchford: You zunk these out, but you can't pass your test.
• 5:57
  April Ratchford: But it's because I like, if it's not interesting to me, the three hours of testing is a long time.
• 6:05
  April Ratchford: And then I did it again with my OT boards.
• 6:09
  April Ratchford: I failed those for the first time.
• 6:11
  April Ratchford: And that was five hours.
• 6:15
  April Ratchford: And I knew the first time I wasn't gonna pass because I kept focusing on all the clicking noises from the other typewriters.
• 6:23
  Khalila McCoy: And I was like, Oh my goodness, yeah, I can't focus.
• 6:27
  April Ratchford: It was over, so I should have figured it out.
• 6:31
  April Ratchford: My sister was late diagnosed as well, but she is autistic and ADHD, like her youngest son, and her older two are also autistic.
• 6:42
  Khalila McCoy: I was gonna say I've heard before for women that ADHD often gets misdiagnosed or later on because you know, for women, they think it's something else.
• 6:51
  Khalila McCoy: Do you feel like it was the same thing for you guys, like as you were going through those things before you learned all the things that you should have, you know, should have known, but could have known about it?
• 7:01
  Khalila McCoy: Was it just you thought it was, oh, I'm just not interested, so I'm not paying attention, or I'm just distracted?
• 7:07
  April Ratchford: Yeah, because I it took me forever to pass college.
• 7:14
  April Ratchford: Like people are like, oh, you must be so smart.
• 7:16
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, no.
• 7:17
  April Ratchford: I went back to college at 35.
• 7:20
  April Ratchford: I had the I finally could like be focused and organized enough to get through college.
• 7:32
  April Ratchford: Whereas my sister was my opposite, she's got that ADHD portion where she can be like, she's misorganized.
• 7:40
  April Ratchford: She can do three computers at a time.
• 7:42
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, oh, I can't do all that.
• 7:46
  April Ratchford: But most of us are late diagnosed, and if we're kids of this 80s and 90s, you just you rolled with it.
• 7:55
  April Ratchford: You just had to adapt on your own.
• 7:59
  Khalila McCoy: Now, for your son, were you able to notice the his neurodivergency pretty early?
• 8:06
  April Ratchford: At the time I was a nurse, I didn't notice it, but my sister was in OT long before I was, and she looked at him, she's like, he's got autism.
• 8:14
  April Ratchford: I was like, no, no, he's just a little shy.
• 8:17
  April Ratchford: She's like, there ain't been a kid that watched Thomas the train like he does that isn't on the spectrum.
• 8:24
  April Ratchford: I was like, no.
• 8:25
  April Ratchford: But sure enough, she was right.
• 8:27
  April Ratchford: So he would flap, and so she would teach him how to put his hands in his pockets so he wouldn't flap.
• 8:32
  April Ratchford: He lined up his toys.
• 8:34
  April Ratchford: We didn't play, we just lined them up and carried them.
• 8:37
  April Ratchford: And I was like, kind of awkward.
• 8:40
  April Ratchford: But then when I tried to get him diagnosed, all they told me was he just got anxiety.
• 8:48
  April Ratchford: And I was like, anxiety?
• 8:50
  April Ratchford: What the he's not been on the planet long enough to have anxiety?
• 8:56
  April Ratchford: So I like that answer.
• 8:59
  April Ratchford: It took until he was 10 years old, until a psychiatrist looked at me.
• 9:04
  April Ratchford: He said, You're right.
• 9:06
  April Ratchford: Your son is high functioning, autistic.
• 9:08
  April Ratchford: And I was like, Thank you, Jesus.
• 9:11
  Khalila McCoy: Now that's a long time.
• 9:13
  Khalila McCoy: How do you how do you feel about that?
• 9:15
  Khalila McCoy: Because it seems like they almost kind of dismissed what you were noticing as a mom and a learning professional as well.
• 9:22
  April Ratchford: Well, I'm not gonna lie, I I I I throw shade at them all the time.
• 9:29
  April Ratchford: But I feel like too, a lot of times if you are African American or another race, they want to throw kids into oh, oppositional defiance, anxiety.
• 9:44
  April Ratchford: I'm like, he's presenting the same as his Caucasian peers.
• 9:50
  April Ratchford: What's so what is it because you think I'm a single mom and I don't have a job?
• 9:59
  April Ratchford: What is it?
• 10:01
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 10:02
  Khalila McCoy: So a lot of the questions and things that you kind of had to deal with to get to the point of diagnosis.
• 10:12
  April Ratchford: Yeah, and it's hard.
• 10:13
  April Ratchford: And I I tell parents all the time, I'm like, it does not matter where you come from.
• 10:21
  April Ratchford: It's gonna be in all cultures, all races across the globe.
• 10:25
  April Ratchford: They present similar, but you know, a lot of culture, you're gonna have to be a little more fine-toothed because sometimes you're not gonna catch it because in certain cultures, kids don't say no to food, they they eat whatever.
• 10:45
  April Ratchford: And people are like, oh, they don't have autism.
• 10:48
  April Ratchford: I was like, she's not speaking.
• 10:50
  April Ratchford: Please enlighten me of why she they're like, Well, she's eating.
• 10:57
  April Ratchford: I'm like, I don't care, she's from another country.
• 10:59
  April Ratchford: Is she gonna say no?
• 11:01
  April Ratchford: Her parents are gonna totally be different.
• 11:04
  April Ratchford: So that's why I feel like a lot of kids slip through cracks because people don't take that cultural context and mix what could be like early intervention.
• 11:21
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 11:21
  Khalila McCoy: Now I'll be honest, I don't know a lot about autism.
• 11:25
  Khalila McCoy: I am in the schooling system, so you know, I've worked with kids with autism and things like that, and we have an autism unit in our building, and I know the care and uh expertise that the teachers do to work with those students.
• 11:37
  Khalila McCoy: But I also know there's like a really large spectrum, right, for autism.
• 11:42
  Khalila McCoy: So how do you figure out that it is autism versus, like you said, a cultural thing or just a behavior of that specific child?
• 11:53
  April Ratchford: Typically it it should be, I think, two days of testing for these kids because they not only see a psychiatrist, they see a PT, an OT, a speech, and they work as a team to kind of read out all these things.
• 12:10
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 12:11
  April Ratchford: And I feel like parents inherently know that something is not ticking.
• 12:17
  April Ratchford: And some parents with the severe autism, which is now called level three, you can pretty much see the regression.
• 12:26
  April Ratchford: But with level one and level two, it's such a spectrum in between those things that, you know, one might be one way, the other might be the other way.
• 12:40
  April Ratchford: Like my son had difficulty transitioning, but my niece and nephew didn't.
• 12:47
  April Ratchford: They could they transitioned and did fine.
• 12:50
  April Ratchford: He had, he was like, I don't know what I'm I'm like, oh god.
• 12:56
  April Ratchford: You're gonna be that one.
• 13:00
  April Ratchford: Okay.
• 13:00
  April Ratchford: I see.
• 13:03
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 13:03
  Khalila McCoy: What are your thoughts on parents who struggle with that diagnosis and are like, no, they're fine and don't get into that early intervention?
• 13:18
  Khalila McCoy: How would you support them or encourage them to let, you know, that worry or whatever it is, how would you encourage them to let that go so their kid can get the help that they need?
• 13:30
  April Ratchford: So I'm pretty twent and I'm I'm that rogue therapist that will say it to them and be like, your kid has autism.
• 13:40
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, you can't sit there and say he's gonna be this way when he grows up because you don't know.
• 13:49
  April Ratchford: And then I tell him, I'm autistic, I have two degrees.
• 13:54
  April Ratchford: My entire family isn't autistic.
• 13:57
  April Ratchford: We don't know what that 11-year-old's gonna be.
• 13:59
  April Ratchford: We're still waiting.
• 14:00
  April Ratchford: So people treat it like it's a life sentence, and I'm like, it's not, but I think the fear is is because there's nothing there after school.
• 14:13
  April Ratchford: They're like, what happens after that?
• 14:15
  April Ratchford: And everybody does this.
• 14:17
  April Ratchford: Parents don't want to hear that.
• 14:20
  April Ratchford: They want the next step.
• 14:22
  April Ratchford: They're like, I know he can go through school and get help in school, but what about after school?
• 14:27
  April Ratchford: And when he's an adult, and everybody's like, so it's a real fear because they're already panicking the worst case scenario.
• 14:38
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 14:38
  April Ratchford: And then here we are just figuring out they're becoming adults.
• 14:43
  April Ratchford: I'm like, so y'all didn't think they were gonna grow up.
• 14:46
  Khalila McCoy: I didn't Yeah.
• 14:48
  Khalila McCoy: And I will say it's hard to hear because, like I said, I am in the educational space.
• 14:52
  Khalila McCoy: I'm in um elementary school.
• 14:54
  Khalila McCoy: And we get all kids who go through testing and things like that, and we'll sit the parents down and say, you know, they need an IEP or something.
• 15:01
  Khalila McCoy: And the parents will ask, like, oh, well, if I do this, if I put them in special education, will they be able to go to college?
• 15:08
  Khalila McCoy: And we always say, Yeah, of course they'll be able to go to college and they'll get some support all through elementary, through middle school, through high school, and things like that.
• 15:15
  Khalila McCoy: And yes, they'll be able to go to college.
• 15:17
  Khalila McCoy: But it's interesting hearing now, like, you'll go to college, but what happens when you get there is completely different.
• 15:24
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 15:24
  Khalila McCoy: Because that's kind of discouraging in a way to hear.
• 15:28
  April Ratchford: Because, like, if I had known that there were actual colleges out there that had autism-specific supports for autistic students and ADHD specific supports out there, I wouldn't have sent my kid to a regular public school.
• 15:43
  April Ratchford: And parents don't know that.
• 15:44
  April Ratchford: I didn't know that until I started doing my podcast.
• 15:48
  April Ratchford: And I was like, wait, they have these things?
• 15:52
  April Ratchford: Why don't I know this?
• 15:54
  April Ratchford: I'm a therapist.
• 15:55
  April Ratchford: Why was this not taught to me?
• 15:57
  April Ratchford: Why do I not know any of these things?
• 16:00
  April Ratchford: And and I tell my story to give parents hope because yes, my son did fail out at 19, but he was able to hold a job for two years.
• 16:11
  April Ratchford: I wasn't gonna let him sit and play video games.
• 16:15
  Khalila McCoy: Well, that's good.
• 16:16
  April Ratchford: He can shower himself.
• 16:18
  April Ratchford: Now, does he drive?
• 16:19
  April Ratchford: No, he still has anxiety about driving, which I don't care.
• 16:22
  April Ratchford: Drive or not drive.
• 16:23
  April Ratchford: But he has now completed his first year at Marshall University.
• 16:29
  April Ratchford: He's on his own.
• 16:30
  April Ratchford: Okay.
• 16:31
  April Ratchford: He is carrying a 2.5.
• 16:34
  April Ratchford: He got a 3.3 last semester.
• 16:38
  April Ratchford: He's in his summer school.
• 16:40
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 16:41
  April Ratchford: He's a sophomore now.
• 16:43
  April Ratchford: So after next year, he'll be a junior and he's ready to get out there and travel the world.
• 16:49
  April Ratchford: He wants to be a foreign exchange student.
• 16:51
  April Ratchford: You just have to be on their timetable and not the rest of the world.
• 16:56
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 16:57
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, I like that.
• 16:58
  Khalila McCoy: Now, what type of supports do you feel like they were providing that was different?
• 17:05
  April Ratchford: So at Marshall, I didn't realize they keep their school calendar a lot for the their neurodivergent population.
• 17:15
  April Ratchford: Like my son doesn't have to go home on breaks.
• 17:18
  April Ratchford: He just has to tell them I'm staying in my dorm.
• 17:21
  April Ratchford: Or if he's only coming home for two weeks, to stay on his routine.
• 17:26
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 17:27
  April Ratchford: So they don't shut down like other schools did.
• 17:30
  April Ratchford: And I was like, this is freaking fantastic.
• 17:32
  April Ratchford: My son didn't come home for spring break.
• 17:36
  April Ratchford: He didn't come home for fall break.
• 17:37
  April Ratchford: He only came home for two weeks on his winter break so he could go right back and get back into his routine.
• 17:46
  April Ratchford: And it's a small campus and they provide a lot for their neurodivergent community.
• 17:54
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 17:54
  Khalila McCoy: Now you said that's not widely known, right?
• 17:57
  Khalila McCoy: That schools provide that type of support as well.
• 18:01
  Khalila McCoy: So how I mean, other than like you said, you had your podcasts.
• 18:05
  Khalila McCoy: So now I guess people can listen to your podcast to find out more.
• 18:08
  Khalila McCoy: But is it something when you're applying for schools that you should that should be asked?
• 18:14
  April Ratchford: You should ask, like, because not all schools are going to have autism-specific supports.
• 18:21
  April Ratchford: They do have student support services, but that's like all-encompassing everybody with a disability.
• 18:29
  April Ratchford: And that really doesn't cater how autistic brains and ADHD brains work.
• 18:35
  April Ratchford: So there's certain schools that have it, certain schools that don't.
• 18:42
  April Ratchford: Every school has their own rule about getting in.
• 18:45
  April Ratchford: Right.
• 18:46
  April Ratchford: Like my son tried to get into the autism-specific support program because they only have limited to seating because it's such a tight group and they're a lot of one-on-one.
• 18:58
  April Ratchford: And he just didn't get in, but he went and he's like, Yeah, I don't really need it.
• 19:05
  April Ratchford: I just need extra time on my tests.
• 19:07
  April Ratchford: And away he went.
• 19:09
  April Ratchford: He gets his own tutors, he goes to the library, he's learned how to navigate the computer system, and now he's like a regular student bussing and cussing about professors.
• 19:26
  Khalila McCoy: Did he kind of have to do that on his own?
• 19:29
  Khalila McCoy: Like, were you able to be there, or is like a person who they buddy him up with?
• 19:35
  April Ratchford: No, he pretty much they do have buddy systems that you can interact with.
• 19:40
  April Ratchford: My son is not about that program.
• 19:42
  April Ratchford: Okay.
• 19:42
  April Ratchford: And then he would call and say, Hey, what do I need to do to do this?
• 19:48
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, you need to go to student accessibility and get your stuff together because you're an adult.
• 19:54
  April Ratchford: He's like, fine.
• 19:55
  April Ratchford: So if he'll go do it.
• 19:57
  April Ratchford: And then, you know, the office of disability, all these things.
• 20:02
  April Ratchford: He knows where to go.
• 20:04
  April Ratchford: Now he may not know where the buildings are.
• 20:06
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, look on your map.
• 20:07
  April Ratchford: Because the map doesn't always work.
• 20:08
  April Ratchford: I was like, it's called Google.
• 20:10
  April Ratchford: Google the help.
• 20:12
  April Ratchford: But he's done well.
• 20:15
  April Ratchford: He's made friends.
• 20:16
  April Ratchford: He's learned how to ride a bus by himself with friends.
• 20:21
  April Ratchford: So I'm pretty proud.
• 20:24
  Khalila McCoy: Tell us about being a mom far away while your son's going through that.
• 20:29
  Khalila McCoy: Like you said, getting on a bus by himself.
• 20:32
  Khalila McCoy: Like, did you know he was doing that the first time?
• 20:33
  Khalila McCoy: Were you nervous for him?
• 20:35
  Khalila McCoy: I had no idea.
• 20:36
  Khalila McCoy: He just called me.
• 20:37
  Khalila McCoy: He was like, hey, I'm at Walmart.
• 20:38
  April Ratchford: And I was like, how'd you get to Walmart?
• 20:41
  April Ratchford: He's like, I took the bus with my two friends, and we can't find the umbrellas.
• 20:44
  April Ratchford: Where do you find those?
• 20:45
  Khalila McCoy: I was like, that's the question.
• 20:50
  April Ratchford: I was like, it's in the purses.
• 20:51
  April Ratchford: She's like, thanks, bye, click.
• 20:52
  April Ratchford: So, and I will say that for a lot of autistic parents, like, you know, they're succeeding when your phone isn't ringing 20 times a day.
• 21:07
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 21:07
  April Ratchford: So I rarely hear from him unless he's got a complaint or he wants to use his credit card and he's like, Can I use my credit card?
• 21:15
  April Ratchford: I was like, what's it for?
• 21:16
  April Ratchford: It's like, I just want DoorDash in Chinese.
• 21:19
  April Ratchford: I don't care.
• 21:20
  April Ratchford: You can use it.
• 21:25
  Khalila McCoy: Now what about the people who are adulting without going to college and things like that and going into the workforce?
• 21:33
  April Ratchford: So I'll give a piece of advice.
• 21:35
  April Ratchford: Just because it makes you a lot of money doesn't mean it's for you.
• 21:40
  April Ratchford: Because unfortunately, the world is still very neurotypical.
• 21:45
  April Ratchford: They want to fit you in the box and you've got to roll with the flow and you're you've got to work for your nervous system.
• 21:54
  April Ratchford: Like if you know you hate people, customer service is not for you.
• 21:59
  April Ratchford: It's called Go Work in a Warehouse where you're by yourself, you can do your job and leave.
• 22:04
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 22:05
  Khalila McCoy: There's some neurotypical people who need to remember that too.
• 22:10
  April Ratchford: You don't like people.
• 22:10
  April Ratchford: This is not your thing.
• 22:12
  April Ratchford: Or if, you know, you know you want to be social and you want to help people, but you don't know if you're going to like it.
• 22:20
  April Ratchford: You don't have to stay and give it 30 days.
• 22:25
  April Ratchford: If it's like crappy and you're like, this is not for me.
• 22:28
  April Ratchford: There are other jobs out there.
• 22:30
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 22:31
  April Ratchford: And they can ask for, you know, boat rehab does help with coaching and things.
• 22:36
  April Ratchford: But I'm going to tell you, it's not that quickest on the planet.
• 22:42
  April Ratchford: Here in Kentucky, it might be quicker other places.
• 22:45
  April Ratchford: But they just have to know what they can and cannot do.
• 22:52
  April Ratchford: What's your strengths?
• 22:53
  April Ratchford: List them out.
• 22:55
  April Ratchford: Don't focus on your weaknesses.
• 22:59
  April Ratchford: And that's not going to get you even nowhere.
• 23:01
  April Ratchford: Focus on what you can do.
• 23:03
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 23:03
  April Ratchford: And start small.
• 23:05
  April Ratchford: And parents need to learn that just because they're not out of your house by 18, 19, 20, I wasn't out of my mother's house until I was like 26.
• 23:15
  April Ratchford: So let them stay, let them learn, let them fall on their face.
• 23:21
  April Ratchford: They will be fine.
• 23:24
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 23:25
  Khalila McCoy: Now thinking about somebody who either is a friend or coworker with somebody with autism, what are some things?
• 23:34
  Khalila McCoy: And I know, like I said, it's a spectrum.
• 23:35
  Khalila McCoy: So everybody's a little bit different, but just to make sure that you're, you know, treating that person, you know.
• 23:41
  Khalila McCoy: So sometimes with someone's neurodivergent, we almost baby them at times, right?
• 23:46
  Khalila McCoy: Or we go to the other extreme of trying to ignore them or being rude.
• 23:50
  Khalila McCoy: I'm not saying we as, and I do that, but you know, I mean, there's that those are extremes of how people can be treated.
• 23:56
  Khalila McCoy: So in that, where would that middle be of truly understanding that person and working with them?
• 24:03
  April Ratchford: It's patience and respect.
• 24:05
  April Ratchford: So if they're your coworker, just say, hey, do you need any help?
• 24:13
  April Ratchford: If they look lost.
• 24:14
  April Ratchford: If they're not getting it really fast, understand it's not because they can't get it.
• 24:21
  April Ratchford: It's just maybe somebody's not explaining it in a way that they understand.
• 24:26
  April Ratchford: Right.
• 24:27
  April Ratchford: Like, it's very simple.
• 24:29
  April Ratchford: Like sometimes it just takes a different way of saying things.
• 24:32
  April Ratchford: Like, I didn't understand anatomy and physiology, and I went to my sister, I said, explain this in April terms.
• 24:38
  April Ratchford: So she would have to like do a whole language change.
• 24:42
  April Ratchford: And I was like, Oh, why didn't they just say that?
• 24:44
  April Ratchford: She was like, because you're a little different.
• 24:47
  April Ratchford: I was like, okay.
• 24:48
  April Ratchford: But just be friendly.
• 24:53
  April Ratchford: Understand they're not gonna trust you on command.
• 24:59
  April Ratchford: You have to earn their trust.
• 25:01
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 25:01
  April Ratchford: And they have to feel safe.
• 25:03
  April Ratchford: Nobody's on that's neurodivergent.
• 25:06
  April Ratchford: If they don't feel safe around you, they're not gonna open up.
• 25:09
  April Ratchford: So don't take offense.
• 25:11
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 25:12
  April Ratchford: Just let them blossom.
• 25:15
  April Ratchford: Just be friendly and open.
• 25:18
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 25:18
  Khalila McCoy: Now I know you work with a lot of adults who are kind of transitioning into the real world, if you will.
• 25:25
  Khalila McCoy: What has been the most difficult thing that you've come across for them?
• 25:33
  April Ratchford: I'm gonna say parent expectations because it it hits all of us because we know how smart our kids are.
• 25:42
  April Ratchford: We know they're bright.
• 25:43
  April Ratchford: But it doesn't mean college is always gonna be the thing, or you know, they're gonna be doctors or weird physicists or what whatever you have.
• 25:57
  April Ratchford: Meet them where they are.
• 25:59
  April Ratchford: Just meet them where they are, and you're gonna have to understand that they're adults now.
• 26:05
  April Ratchford: They are young adults.
• 26:07
  April Ratchford: You have to ask them what do they want?
• 26:12
  April Ratchford: Like, I don't have power of returning of my son, which people are like, oh my god, I'm like, I'm gonna be dead one day.
• 26:20
  April Ratchford: So he's gotta learn to navigate all of these things on his own.
• 26:25
  April Ratchford: And does he like to do it?
• 26:28
  April Ratchford: No.
• 26:29
  April Ratchford: Does he always know how?
• 26:31
  April Ratchford: No.
• 26:32
  April Ratchford: But I'll get on three-way with him.
• 26:33
  April Ratchford: I was like, call whoever you need to call and I'll help you through it.
• 26:36
  April Ratchford: And he does it.
• 26:38
  April Ratchford: He hates, he hates calling the insurance people.
• 26:41
  April Ratchford: He's like, I'm like, welcome to the real world.
• 26:45
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 26:47
  April Ratchford: But let them do for themselves.
• 26:50
  April Ratchford: Teach them one thing at a time.
• 26:53
  April Ratchford: They will get it.
• 26:54
  Khalila McCoy: What are some of the things emotionally that you've seen they struggle with as well?
• 27:02
  April Ratchford: That their maturity doesn't always match their age.
• 27:06
  April Ratchford: Just because they're 18 doesn't mean they they're mature at 18.
• 27:11
  April Ratchford: Right.
• 27:12
  April Ratchford: Their maturity level could be anywhere from 13 to 15.
• 27:15
  April Ratchford: And that tears a lot of parents up.
• 27:18
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, you've got to remember, just because they're 18 doesn't mean this autism thing just quickly just goes away.
• 27:27
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 27:28
  April Ratchford: The neurotypical brain doesn't mature until 25.
• 27:32
  April Ratchford: So I'm gonna say I was 30 before I got it together.
• 27:38
  April Ratchford: I was like, oh, but I was 26 when I had my kids, so it's a good thing he survived.
• 27:44
  April Ratchford: Yeah.
• 27:46
  April Ratchford: But you've got to understand that their maturity will come.
• 27:51
  April Ratchford: It just comes a little bit later.
• 27:53
  April Ratchford: Like my son turned 18.
• 27:56
  April Ratchford: I was like, oh, I see, we have not got it together.
• 28:01
  April Ratchford: But now he's 24 and some of that maturity has kicked in.
• 28:05
  April Ratchford: He's like, okay, I can do this.
• 28:09
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 28:09
  Khalila McCoy: How have you seen that ref um affect his relationships?
• 28:14
  Khalila McCoy: Because you talked about before, relationships are different, be it friendships or intimacy.
• 28:20
  April Ratchford: Um, he has a boyfriend.
• 28:22
  April Ratchford: They are both, I guess, gonna be video game designers.
• 28:27
  April Ratchford: Okay.
• 28:28
  April Ratchford: And so his boyfriend goes to online school, and I was like, that is not your option.
• 28:34
  April Ratchford: You don't learn very well that way.
• 28:36
  April Ratchford: You need some people.
• 28:37
  April Ratchford: So he's at school, and every now and then he'll ask a question.
• 28:42
  April Ratchford: He'll be like, So what do I do if he's just constantly trauma just dumping?
• 28:52
  April Ratchford: I was like, put a boundary up.
• 28:54
  April Ratchford: Yeah.
• 28:55
  April Ratchford: Cut it off.
• 28:56
  April Ratchford: I'm like, you are now an adult, you can put up your boundaries, you they can either like it or not.
• 29:02
  April Ratchford: And he's pretty blunt.
• 29:04
  April Ratchford: So people ask, do you want my I want your opinion?
• 29:09
  April Ratchford: He I was like, listen, before you open your mouth, you make sure that do you want the real truth that I'm gonna say, or do you want me to lie to you because I know who you are?
• 29:23
  Khalila McCoy: Is his boyfriend neurodivergent as well?
• 29:26
  April Ratchford: Yes.
• 29:26
  April Ratchford: I'm like, y'all are just a lot.
• 29:32
  Khalila McCoy: Now, do you find with the people you work with, is it typical that two not neurodivergent people will because I know obviously some don't, but is that typical?
• 29:40
  April Ratchford: Like they usually kind of bond together because of everything that they've gone through, or I think so because they feel like that person understands them.
• 29:49
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 29:50
  April Ratchford: So I don't know how people just find each other because sometimes when you're in your 50s and you just run into somebody, you're like, Oh, you're neurodivergent too.
• 30:00
  April Ratchford: And they're like, What do you mean?
• 30:03
  April Ratchford: I was like, you didn't know the ADHD, because I know my boss, I worked for it.
• 30:13
  April Ratchford: I was like, girl, if you don't get some meds for your ADHD, he's like, it's fine.
• 30:17
  April Ratchford: I have 9,000 things going on.
• 30:19
  April Ratchford: I was like, you wear me out.
• 30:22
  Khalila McCoy: Do you find in the relationship when it's too neurodivergent people, is it typically more difficult, or is it as any relationship would progress?
• 30:35
  Khalila McCoy: Because like it's like you said, he's still in different maturity, and they both might be, they're both learning different things.
• 30:41
  Khalila McCoy: Does that usually strengthen them as they go forward versus like when you have a neurotypical person who's trying to understand the differences and support them?
• 30:51
  Khalila McCoy: Does it does that make sense what I'm asking?
• 30:53
  April Ratchford: Yeah.
• 30:53
  April Ratchford: Okay.
• 30:53
  April Ratchford: It really comes down to anybody's relationship is communication and being comfortable who you are and where you are and letting that person know.
• 31:03
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 31:04
  April Ratchford: But, you know, every neurodivergent person is different, like ADHD and autism different, or if they're both ADHD and autistic, and this is ADHD, it could be one big mess if there's no communication.
• 31:22
  April Ratchford: Um just like any neurotypical couple, it could be communication issues.
• 31:29
  April Ratchford: But I feel like when it's neurotypical with a neurodivergent, neurotypical have to understand all those sensory issues that they probably never encountered.
• 31:41
  April Ratchford: Whereas to neurodivergent people, they could be like, hey, I don't like noise.
• 31:46
  April Ratchford: And the other one's like, Who here's some head counseling, noise with my friends.
• 31:53
  April Ratchford: And they can work it out, not offended.
• 31:56
  April Ratchford: But neurotypical people tend to be like, I don't understand.
• 31:59
  April Ratchford: Why do you do this and do this?
• 32:01
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, And you you don't really have the answer.
• 32:08
  April Ratchford: You're like, that's just my nervous system.
• 32:09
  April Ratchford: That's what it's wired.
• 32:12
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 32:12
  Khalila McCoy: As you're working with your different clients and your own experience, what are some of your favorite experiences or your favorite things working with the different people you've met?
• 32:24
  April Ratchford: Listen, it's always a fun household.
• 32:27
  April Ratchford: Uh, when my niece, nephew, my son get together because they like playing college games and you're watching all these autistic people play Uno like it's fades.
• 32:40
  April Ratchford: Like they just, it's like, I'm like, it's Uno, why are y'all just slamming carts down like it's fades?
• 32:48
  April Ratchford: And they're like taking shots, and I'm like, these are adults.
• 32:53
  April Ratchford: I was like, were we like this?
• 32:56
  April Ratchford: I look at my sister, I was like, did we do this?
• 32:58
  April Ratchford: And she was like, probably worse, but we forget they're like, oh yeah, they're still in their 20s.
• 33:07
  April Ratchford: They're just like weird things.
• 33:09
  April Ratchford: Or um, it's always nice to see other neurodivergent entrepreneurs that I interview that you can clearly see they're not comfortable with people, but they have a lot to give and want to help others.
• 33:25
  April Ratchford: And I'm and ask my advice, and I'm like, oh God, love you, you're asking my advice.
• 33:32
  April Ratchford: But a lot of the times it's really guesswork because there's not a lot of research on adults through the autism spectrum and how they age, comorbidities, because all the research is primarily kids.
• 33:53
  Khalila McCoy: Are you starting to see more research come out about that?
• 33:57
  April Ratchford: There's only been one grant in the country.
• 34:00
  Khalila McCoy: Wow.
• 34:01
  April Ratchford: Granted for research study of autistic adults.
• 34:06
  April Ratchford: So hopefully in the next year.
• 34:10
  April Ratchford: And if everybody's gonna be like, are you is it gonna be you?
• 34:12
  April Ratchford: I'm like, no.
• 34:13
  April Ratchford: I know my lane and it's not research.
• 34:18
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 34:20
  April Ratchford: I've just that's a long study, and my attention is not that great.
• 34:25
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 34:25
  Khalila McCoy: So if there's not a lot of research, there's not a lot of resources out there, then how are you helping people?
• 34:31
  Khalila McCoy: Is it more just from your experience and then just like you said, that patience and taking the time to truly know them and moving forward with that?
• 34:40
  April Ratchford: That in you start in the autism world, you start to learn who has developed things for autistic adults, um, navigating them to neurodivergent coaches or therapists.
• 34:53
  April Ratchford: And the great thing about COVID is we can do anything virtually.
• 34:59
  April Ratchford: So the option is there.
• 35:01
  April Ratchford: It's just unfortunate that you know, not a lot of autistic adults are earning a lot of money.
• 35:10
  April Ratchford: So getting them those supports are really hard.
• 35:15
  April Ratchford: And I see eventually my hope before I leave this planet is to start a foundation just for autistic young adults from 18 to 34.
• 35:30
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 35:30
  Khalila McCoy: Why 18 to 34?
• 35:34
  April Ratchford: Usually that's the range of young adulthood.
• 35:36
  April Ratchford: Okay.
• 35:38
  Khalila McCoy: I see what you're saying.
• 35:38
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 35:38
  Khalila McCoy: So then they'll be able to continue with what they've been supported with at the beginning.
• 35:43
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 35:44
  April Ratchford: Yeah, and if it grows more, that'd be great.
• 35:46
  April Ratchford: But and maybe people will realize, oh, you need to look at the other part of the lifespan as they age, and maybe more supports will come out.
• 36:03
  April Ratchford: I keep seeing more and more actors figure out they're autistic, and I'm like, you didn't know.
• 36:08
  April Ratchford: Weird.
• 36:12
  Khalila McCoy: But like you said, no one's telling them, you know, what it is or what they're seeing, and they just assume it's something else.
• 36:20
  Khalila McCoy: Very true.
• 36:21
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Khalila McCoy: So are you an author as well?
• 36:27
  Khalila McCoy: Am I an author?
• 36:29
  April Ratchford: Absolutely not.
• 36:30
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 36:31
  April Ratchford: I wish I had the patience, maybe down the road.
• 36:35
  April Ratchford: Uh-huh.
• 36:36
  April Ratchford: Once my kid figures out his life and whatever he's going to be successful at, and then I can write a book.
• 36:44
  April Ratchford: But until then, I just podcast my little butt off and hopefully it helps parents and clinicians and autistic adults.
• 36:55
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 36:55
  Khalila McCoy: So tell us a little bit more about your podcast.
• 36:58
  April Ratchford: So it's called Adulting with Autism.
• 37:00
  April Ratchford: I started it two and a half years ago.
• 37:03
  April Ratchford: It primarily helps with, you know, mental health, relationships, understanding your brain, how, why you think the way you do careers, if school is for you or not, just a safe space for them to be like, oh, I'm not by myself.
• 37:22
  April Ratchford: This is not an uncommon thing.
• 37:25
  April Ratchford: So they know they're gonna melt down in adulthood.
• 37:28
  April Ratchford: You're gonna have autistic burnout if you don't take care of yourself.
• 37:32
  April Ratchford: And, you know, trying to connect them with resources, you know, like books that could be read, or, you know, coaches that are um more skilled than I am.
• 37:48
  April Ratchford: But that's what I do for them.
• 37:51
  April Ratchford: My son asks me every day because he's like, Are you famous yet?
• 37:56
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, No, no, but I am not famous.
• 38:02
  Khalila McCoy: Does he want you to be famous?
• 38:03
  April Ratchford: Yeah, he's like, you should be making lots of money.
• 38:06
  April Ratchford: I'm like, this is not how any of this works.
• 38:08
  April Ratchford: This is not how none of this works.
• 38:13
  Khalila McCoy: Hey, you never know.
• 38:14
  Khalila McCoy: I mean, I've seen you have a really big following.
• 38:16
  Khalila McCoy: And like you said, not a lot of people are talking about this, so you are definitely filling in a gap there.
• 38:22
  Khalila McCoy: So even if you don't become famous, you're gonna be famous for those people, right?
• 38:26
  Khalila McCoy: You mean a lot to the people that you're supporting and helping and finding along the way.
• 38:31
  April Ratchford: Yeah, it's it's nice because I'm it's like a big family group.
• 38:36
  April Ratchford: And I'm like, got a question.
• 38:38
  April Ratchford: You can always find me.
• 38:40
  April Ratchford: Or I'll point you in the right direction.
• 38:43
  Khalila McCoy: Yes.
• 38:44
  Khalila McCoy: So how can people find you?
• 38:47
  April Ratchford: So the best way to find me is on my website, adultsingwithautism.com.
• 38:52
  April Ratchford: It has all my socials, um, a free guide if they would like it.
• 38:57
  April Ratchford: I have autism awareness shirts for young adults.
• 39:05
  April Ratchford: There's no rainbows or horses or unicorns.
• 39:07
  April Ratchford: No, y'all aren't into that.
• 39:10
  April Ratchford: So it's mostly words like not masking just magic or autistic, authentic, unapologetic things that kind of make them feel like, yeah, I'm good with this.
• 39:25
  April Ratchford: Or make proud of who they are.
• 39:27
  April Ratchford: Frequency, just so they're like, yeah.
• 39:32
  Khalila McCoy: Do you find saying that about the shirts makes me interested?
• 39:36
  Khalila McCoy: Do you find that it's often hard for them to go out into the world and just appreciate who they are?
• 39:44
  Khalila McCoy: Is there a lot of that in the doling world that kind of that we all have, right?
• 39:49
  Khalila McCoy: Like, oh, maybe I'm not good enough, or you know, people are gonna look at me weird.
• 39:53
  Khalila McCoy: Do you find like that's a big part of the support that you give?
• 39:58
  April Ratchford: A lot of the times, especially if they're later diagnosed, simply because it really wasn't talked about as much as it is now.
• 40:07
  April Ratchford: Now it's like this buzzword, like you hear it everywhere.
• 40:12
  April Ratchford: So neurodivergency, neurospicy.
• 40:17
  April Ratchford: So people aren't as afraid to talk about it like they were like maybe five, 10 years ago.
• 40:25
  April Ratchford: So, like my son will stuck around on campus and look at people, and he's not afraid to say, Yeah, I'm autistic.
• 40:34
  April Ratchford: Get out my face.
• 40:36
  April Ratchford: So I'm like, you don't really have to, he's like, You don't have to tell them that.
• 40:43
  April Ratchford: I was like, listen, don't be a dick.
• 40:46
  April Ratchford: Right.
• 40:47
  April Ratchford: Yeah, just now if we could just get like therapists and other pensions to tell kids, hey, it's fine that you know your handwriting's gonna suck.
• 41:08
  April Ratchford: Let's focus on what you're good at and help them prep that way.
• 41:13
  April Ratchford: Because I was like, I look at my son's writing every day and I'm like, you didn't read that.
• 41:21
  Khalila McCoy: I'm glad you typed.
• 41:22
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 41:23
  Khalila McCoy: So now you're a clinician.
• 41:27
  Khalila McCoy: Are you do you work for like a hospital or a school or do you have a practice that you're with?
• 41:32
  April Ratchford: Fun fact, I am a long-term care rehab therapist.
• 41:38
  April Ratchford: Okay.
• 41:38
  April Ratchford: I do have people reach out to me and they're like, Do you think you can mentor a coach?
• 41:45
  April Ratchford: And I was like, I don't know, because I work a full-time job too.
• 41:49
  April Ratchford: So but if they ask for my advice, I try to give as much as I know because really in this field, it's really a trial and error as an adult.
• 42:05
  April Ratchford: Because they're not gonna feel be the same as they were as kids.
• 42:09
  April Ratchford: You change as you grow, and your experiences change who you are.
• 42:14
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 42:18
  Khalila McCoy: So tell us what would be the biggest takeaway that you would want either a parent to have or just a listener to have from what you've shared and what you are doing in the experience.
• 42:31
  Khalila McCoy: What could we take from this conversation to help us rise in our own lives?
• 42:36
  April Ratchford: You are never alone.
• 42:37
  April Ratchford: There is always community for you.
• 42:40
  April Ratchford: Even if it's online, there's a community for you.
• 42:46
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, I like that.
• 42:47
  Khalila McCoy: And you're definitely growing a big community.
• 42:49
  Khalila McCoy: And like I said, I will link your podcast in our show notes.
• 42:54
  Khalila McCoy: I've listened to a few of the episodes, and there's a lot that I could learn from and apply to my own life as well.
• 43:00
  Khalila McCoy: So I think people are people, right?
• 43:02
  Khalila McCoy: And we still need that community.
• 43:04
  Khalila McCoy: We still need to learn to be patient and to be kind.
• 43:06
  Khalila McCoy: And like I said at the beginning, I like how you just reframe it's just that perspective, how you look at life.
• 43:10
  Khalila McCoy: So I appreciate what you're doing, and I really appreciate your time today sharing that.
• 43:16
  Khalila McCoy: Thank you so much for having me.
• 43:19
  Khalila McCoy: April left us with such a powerful reminder.
• 43:24
  Khalila McCoy: You are never alone.
• 43:27
  Khalila McCoy: There is always community for you.
• 43:30
  Khalila McCoy: And the beautiful thing about community is that it doesn't have to look one specific way.
• 43:36
  Khalila McCoy: It can be made up of people with different strengths, different perspectives, and different ways of experiencing the world, all bringing value in their own way.
• 43:45
  Khalila McCoy: When we understand that, we begin to show up differently as parents, educators, coworkers, and friends.
• 43:52
  Khalila McCoy: We learn how to walk alongside others and meet them where they are.
• 43:57
  Khalila McCoy: I highly recommend April's podcast.
• 44:00
  Khalila McCoy: As I mentioned, there's a lot to learn from her show, even if you are not an adult with autism yourself.
• 44:05
  Khalila McCoy: I asked her what her favorite episodes were, and she shared her top three.
• 44:09
  Khalila McCoy: I'll add them to the show notes so you know a great place to start listening.
• 44:14
  Khalila McCoy: If you or someone you love needs support because of neurodivergence, take time to explore what resources your state offers.
• 44:22
  Khalila McCoy: It can be frustrating and sometimes discouraging, as April shared, to find the right programs, but many do exist.
• 44:29
  Khalila McCoy: And the more we share our experiences, ask questions, and talk openly about neurodivergence, the more awareness we build.
• 44:37
  Khalila McCoy: My hope is that conversations like this lead to better systems, better access, and better support for every family navigating this journey.
• 44:45
  Khalila McCoy: Thank you so much, April, for being on the show today and for sharing your passion in your heart.
• 44:52
  Khalila McCoy: And thank you, friend, for joining me for another episode.
• 44:55
  Khalila McCoy: I am so happy you are here today.
• 44:58
  Khalila McCoy: As you move through the rest of your day, I hope you take a moment to listen a little louder to yourself, to the people you love, and to the things that connect us and ways we sometimes forget to notice.
• 45:10
  Khalila McCoy: I'll meet you back here next time.
• 45:12
  Khalila McCoy: See you bye.