Latest / ChangeMakers with Katie Goar / Episode 112 | Part One: Tess Hembree, Executive Director of the Council of State Community Development Agencies

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Episode 112 | Part One: Tess Hembree, Executive Director of the Council of State Community Development Agencies · ChangeMakers with Katie Goar

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is change Makers with Katie Gore finding the right
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: solutions for the affordable housing community.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Test Henbry is this week's change Maker. As Executive director
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: of the Council of State Community Development Agencies, Test leads
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: advocacy efforts for state level community development and affordable housing initiatives.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: With nearly fifteen years of experience, including a decade in
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: leadership at NARRO, she has played a key role in
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: securing policy victories for affordable housing tests. Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: It's an honor to have you here. And I first
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: want to talk about your impressive career right off the bat.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: You have done so much in the spheres of advocacy,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: government relations, affordable housing. I really want to hear, though,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: how you got started in the career. Can you share
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: a little bit about your journey into this industry with us.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Like a lot of people in the field of housing
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: and community development, I kind of stumbled my way into
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: this career that I loved so much. I moved to
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: d C in January of two thousand and nine, and
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: it was sort of a haphazard, spur of the moment
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: kind of decision that I made, but it ended up
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: launching into this really amazing career that I've had. When
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: I moved to DC in two thousand and nine, I
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: started working with Advocacy Associates, which is a small boutique
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: advocacy firm that does work with Hill days when groups
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: like NARO or COSTA come into d C and their
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: members go up to Capitol Hill. They schedule visits for them,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: but they also provide a lot of policy work. So
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: when I moved to DC in two thousand and nine,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: they hired me on initially as a temp worker, but
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: then they needed somebody to fill in for housing commune
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: development issues for one of their clients, which is the
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: American Planning Association. So I had a background in politics
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: a political science degree, and I started working with them
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: on housing and commune development and it just felt like
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: a really, really good fit. So I worked with them
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: for a long time. In twenty thirteen, we took on
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: NARO as a client, so I did a lot of
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: part time work with NARO back in twenty thirteen, and
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: then I moved in house to Narrow in twenty eighteen,
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: and then tomorrow is my one year anniversary of taking
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: over as executive director of COSTA. So my initial few
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: roles I was focusing on government relations and legislative work.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: But this role I've taken over as executive director of
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Cousta has been a really fun and different transition, and
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: it does sound like a pretty linear path for my career.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: But before I moved to DC in two thousand and nine,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I had been working just the job that I could
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: find out of college. So I was working administerrying for
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: owin K Plans in Seattle and had a friend who
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: called me up one day in September of two thousand
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: and eight and said that he had a friend who
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: was leaving a house since d C and they were
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: looking for somebody to fill the room. So I didn't
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: love my job in Seattle. It wasn't what I wanted
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: to be doing. I had initially wanted to be a journalist,
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: a political reporter, and once I graduated, I just took
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: the first job I could find. And when he called
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: me up, I was like, the rent is cheaper in
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: DC than it is Seattle. So I spur of the
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: moment decided to quit my job and moved to DC
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: and the rest is history.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I know you from your decade long leadership at NARO,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and that's where I first met you, and you really
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: did some impressive things related to policy and legislative success.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Can you brag a little bit about that because you
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: accomplish so much in that time before we go into
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: your current role, can you reflect on your time at NARO. Yeah.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. I got really lucky to land at Advocacy Associates
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: because I learned so much from Stephanie Vance and Jason Jordan,
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: who are the partners at Advocacy Associates. Stephanie taught me
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: pretty much everything I know about advocacy, but she also
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: instilled in me this deep belief in constituenccy based advocacy
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: and the power that each of us have to utilize
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: our own voice to affect change. And Jason taught me
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: a lot about commune development and housing and the impact
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: on the policy role. But Stephanie really did help me
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: understand how important constituency based advocacy is. And I got
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: really lucky when I moved over to NARROW because I
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: had some really great people who believed in me and
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: mentored me, like John Boehm, Adrian Toddman, Sonny Shaw, Jennifer Keio,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Patricia Wells. I think most of them have been on
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: the podcast. They really uplifted and believed in my theory
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: that we could be better as an organization if we
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: create a culture, an endearing culture of advocacy at NARO.
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  Speaker 3: And that's something that I think I left behind at
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  Speaker 3: NARROW when I left last year, and I'm really proud
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: of the work that we did. So John Bowman and
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: I we really started this process of building this culture
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: of advocacy. One of our main things we did. What
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: we focused on was what we called August Advocacy. There
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: was a pretty basic premise we had one topic each week.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Because NARO members they administer pretty much every head program
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: there is, and depending on the size of the agency,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: what it is that they do specifically, they maybe focused
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: more on public housing or vouchers, or maybe they're utilizing
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: home dollars in a really cool way. So we recognized
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: that we had an opportunity to highlight a different topic
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  Speaker 3: each week of the August recess Congressional August Recess and
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: also build our members comfort level and build a habit
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: with them of communicating regularly with their Members of Congress.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: So we launched August advocacy as a weekly letter during
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: the congressional break. The first year we launched it was
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, and we had the goal of sending one
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  Speaker 3: thousand letters, which sounded like a really wild thing. Back then,
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: it was pulling teeth to try to get a dozen
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  Speaker 3: letters sent, so trying to get a thousand letters in
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  Speaker 3: five to six weeks was really a stretch, and by
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: the end of the month we were close but not
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: quite there. I remember like thinking about calling my mother
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: and asking her to send letters just to kind of
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: push us over the edge. But we made it, and
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  Speaker 3: we were very proud of that. But we thought one
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: thousand letters was a huge deal and we had no
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: idea what was coming and nural members like building that
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: culture of advocacy was a slow process, and again, the
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: leadership at NARO believed in my theory that we could
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: slowly build up this culture and build up something that
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: could affect change, and I was really really lucky to
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: have that trust that they put in me NURO members.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: It took a lot of education about the impact of
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: advocacy and just trying to convince members that they are
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: subject matter experts, that they do have the ability to
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: convince congressional offices that these programs matter. It was crazy
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: to me that I would have these conversations with our
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: members that were administering some of the most complicated housing programs,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: complicated federal programs in the country, and they were saying
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: things to me like, I don't understand the programs. I
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: don't know this bill number, I don't remember what the
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: authorization level back in nineteen seventy four was, so I
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: can't be this expert on the ground. So getting them
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: to the place where they understood their power and understood
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  Speaker 3: that they actually do know a lot about the programs,
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  Speaker 3: and not only that, but the congressional offices really care
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  Speaker 3: what that they have to say, that they understand what's
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: happening on the ground in the district and the state
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  Speaker 3: better than anybody, that these are really valuable things for
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: congressional offices. Convincing them that they have that power in
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: that ability, and then also that their voice matters. It
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: was a really hard lift, but I think over the
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: years we've done a really good job of building that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: At Narrow I was really proud back in twenty twenty
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: two we got it was over fifty thousand letters sent
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: during our August advocacy campaign. So it was amazing to
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: me to see just in the seven years building this
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: from a thousand letters, so o're fifty thousand letters. And
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of that had to do with
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: the excitement over build back Better and people started to
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  Speaker 3: see the fruition of the advocacy that they've been doing
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: over the years, and housing and affordable housing and all
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: of those topics started to come up more during the pandemic,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: and I think they just kind of saw that this
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: matters and it works. So that was a really exciting time.
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  Speaker 3: And then credit to my Narro for Narro colleagues. But
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  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four they sent over one hundred and
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  Speaker 3: forty thousand letters, So really great job that Eric gave
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  Speaker 3: Rich and the whole team over there have done to
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: continue on this advocacy culture. But I just really proud
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: of that the work they've done, and excited to see
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: where they're going to take it.
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  Speaker 2: Over one hundred and forty thousand letters, and I believe
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  Speaker 2: they had all fifty states in DC represented too. So
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: what pioneering moment and momentum that you got started their
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: great job and great legacy for you. Yeah, absolutely so
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: let's talk about what you're doing today the executive director
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  Speaker 2: of the Council of State Community Development Agencies. For those
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: who may not be familiar, first tell us what the
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  Speaker 2: council is and what you guys do.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, So our members are the state level agencies
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  Speaker 3: that administer the CDBG program Home, a lot of the
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: homeless programs, and in some cases disaster recovery programs. So
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: they're working with their governor's office once they receive the
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: state level non entitlement funding of those programs and helping
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: projects get off the ground across their states. And so
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: we are their membership organization. We're in DC and we
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: help communicate to HUT and Congress the best practices and
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: how these programs can function better for members.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So you're advocating for state interests at the federal level.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure the needs very great from state to state.
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  Speaker 2: So how do you work to try to create a
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: commonality there or is it as simple as everybody needs
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: to development affordable housing. It's just differs how it's delivered. Talk
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: about some maybe regional challenges or state challenges as you
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: bring all of these groups together.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, every state functions differently, so how they are. The
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: agencies that administer funding different from state to state. Which
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: agency administers CDBG versus HOME versus disaster recovery, that's all
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: very different at the state level, so it can be
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: a little bit of a challenge to understand the different
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: needs and the different flows of how the money goes
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: through the states. But when it comes down to it,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: we've got a lot of very similar problems across the country.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: Funding robust funding for these programs is always going to
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: be the main issue. Making sure that the states have
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: the flexibilities to administer the funding in a way that
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: makes the most sense for their communities, for their states,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: and frankly, for how their state politics are working at
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: the time, and just making sure that they've got the
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: administrative ability, to the staff capacity, the head assistance, just
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: to make sure that they are efficiently and effectively admit
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: string the dollars.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And when we're talking about CDBG and HOME dollars, for
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a non practitioner, tell us what those programs look like
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: in your community.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: For example, so the Community Development Block Grant program, it's
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: usually around three point three billion dollars a year, and
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: this money is dedicated to a handful of eligible uses
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: that benefit low to moderate income areas, so it can
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: be anything from the preservation of affordable housing, infrastructure projects,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: some parks park projects. The beauty of the CDBG program
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: is that flexibility in the eligible uses, so the communities
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: really can develop plans to use this money in the
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: best way that they need and what fits the needs
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: of their community. So it's a really cool program in
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: that respect because it really does allow them to be
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: flexible with that funding. CDBG is broken up into two
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: different types of funding. There's entitlement, so if your community
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: is large enough according to census data, you receive funding
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: directly from the federal government. So seventy percent of the
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: money for CDBG goes to these entitlement communities, and then
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: thirty percent goes to the states that dole out the
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: money to the non entitlement communities and the projects that
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: are happening around the states. So our members are on
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: the non entitlement side, So a lot of more rural
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: communities that need really a lot of infrastructure projects and
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: gap financing for those sorts of things. That's where the
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: CDBG dollars go. Home is broken down into a similar
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: way with entitlement and non entitlement communities. But the Home
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: program is the only federal block grant program that's dedicated
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: solely to the production and preservation of affordable housing. So
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: it's a really, really critical program that's unfortunately been cut
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: over the years. Really we need it the most, but
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: it does a really good job of especially providing gap
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: financing for affordable housing projects across the country.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: In one of my former lives, I used to be
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: a CDBG and home development director and I absolutely loved
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: these programs because they are tangible ways that communities can
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: make a difference and make it quickly. We're talking not
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: like a pipeline of five to seven years, even though
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: that can happen with new construction, but we're talking, like
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: you said, playgrounds, sidewalks, removal of slemon flight properties, tackling
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: areas that private development can't get into. It's an amazing
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: tool for communities and it's one of the most transformational
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: ways that cities and towns can make a difference. I
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: think that it is not just the flexibility and the
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: regulation part of it, but it's just such a phenomenal
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: change agent for a town. So crucial, crucial role that
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: you're doing here advocating for interests. One question that I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: have that I was thinking about as you were describing this,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: is what are some of the biggest policy issues right
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: now that you're confronted with that's either threatening for the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: stability of people who use this funding stream or just
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: other policy dynamics this or something on the radar that
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: you're watching that would make an impact for or against
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: these programs.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's with CDBG and home the block
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: programs are always going to be a funding risk when
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: we're talking about budget caps or type fiscal constraints, just
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: the way that the transportation budget is drafted and exists.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Because the voucher program and the public housing operating Fund,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: these are not entitlement programs. So the funding that is
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: required to ensure that everybody who's currently receiving a voucher
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: receives it next fiscal year, the funding that is needed
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: to operate public housing on a very basic level, those
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: things aren't guaranteed from year to year. It's part of
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: the annual proparation. So as rents grow, the cost of
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: the voucher program skyrockets, inflation labor materials that keeps public
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: housing operating is those costs go up, so the cost
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: of running the public housing programs. So those budgets have
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: been increasing over the years, but the rate at which
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: they are increasing, the overall allocation for the Transportation HUD
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: budget but that Congress is doing hasn't quite kept up.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: So the Home in the CDPG program, those are one
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: of the only two of the only buckets of money
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: that they can pull from in the Transportation HUD budget
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: to fill those gaps without making people homeless. Basically, so
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: any time we have a conversation like we're having right now,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: where we've got a budget cap that we're facing and
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: talking about constraining overall spending, CDBG and a HOME specifically
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: are at risk because appropriators they have a difficult decision
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: to make and usually those are where some of the
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: money comes from. Luckily, CDBG we've seen at stay consistently
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: funded over the years. It's a very popular program with
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: mayors and elected officials, so it's mostly managed to stay consistent.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: But Home has really taken a lot of the cuts,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: especially since fiscal year twelve and just through so it's
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: something that I always keep an eye on. I'm always
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: fearful of when we're talking about tough budget climates, because
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: I've seen the impact those programs have and I understand
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: the reality that appropriators have when they're drafting these budgets.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: We're speaking with test Him Braid, the executive director of
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: the Council of State Community Development Agencies, and I want
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: to dive into the work your organization is doing for
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: state agencies, but we'll have to wait until the next time.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: In Part two, Tess will share her enthusiasm for the
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: future of COSTA.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: And I'm also just really excited to see where we
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: can grow with our membership and take a look at
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: different opportunities and the disaster recovery and homelessness realm to
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: bring in more people into the fold and build caused
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: it out.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to change Makers with Katie Gore. To
• 18:34
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