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Crucial Parenting Conversations with Enneagram Eight Pastor Jimmy and Kristin Scroggins · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, even in communication, right?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: So like uh, you know, I'm more soft spoken.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you've had to help tell me to get closer to the mic multiple times from this podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: But um, and so, you know, when when Jimmy speaks in a uh, I don't want to say yelling, although I'll go, why are you yelling?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, I'm not yelling, but it's just a forceful, assertive tone.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: If I were speaking like that, I would be angry.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: But he's not angry.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's just the way that he is wired to communicate.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: He's a leader, he's you know, he's direct.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so learning how, you know, we talk to our kids a lot about learning how to think of other people, you know, that that's really important.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so this Enneagram gives you a framework of learning how to think of others.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: That I can't always just uh assume certain things about him because this is how I would be feeling.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like I it takes time to learn him.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the same goes for our children.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can't we cannot parent them all in the exact same way because they're not gonna receive instruction in the same way that their brother's gonna receive it.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I help you navigate the overwhelm and frustration of motherhood through faith, Enneagram, and simple plans.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: As a faith-based Enneagram coach, I champion you to love your mothering style because you are the mom your kids need, even when you don't feel like it.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest, overwhelmed and frustrated by motherhood.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: But the Lord didn't let me stay there.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: He helped me turn the challenges of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my self-awareness, and my family.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Each episode of this podcast provides perspective through story, wholehearted purpose, and simple plan so you can discover how to love your mothering style and be confident that you are the mom your kids need.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Get ready to be encouraged and empowered while you listen.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hey friend, welcome back to our summer in the Enneagram series.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is, well, you get a bonus guest today.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not only is it a type 8 guest, but it's also a type 2 guest.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's a married couple that have dedicated more than 12 years to create a Christ-centered community at Family Church in Florida and over 25 years at home with their kids.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Jimmy leads as an Enneagram 8, and Kristen leads as an Enneagram 2.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it'd be fabulous to hear the dynamic of using the Enneagram in marriage, parenting, leadership, and so much more.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Jimmy and Kristen released a book this year for parents and for those who work with youth to help guide us to have the crucial conversations that we need to be having with our kids.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we're going to cover how to have those conversations, the three circles gospel tool, and of course, the Enneagram.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, if you're interested in specific episodes about the Enneagram type 8, check out episode 166 in my motherhood and Enneagram series last fall.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guys, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I've been reading your book.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've been poking around on your website.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's going to be good.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are you ready?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're ready.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Let's do it.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I love um just getting advice for parenting because I'm in the thick of it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I love getting advice from people who've had as many kids as you.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about your family, what it looks like.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Amy, God has blessed us with eight children.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: So we have six boys and two girls.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Our oldest son is 25, and our caboose is a 12-year-old boy.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: He's our last guy in elementary school.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we have two married sons, um, two wonderful daughter-in-laws.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: We actually have two grandbabies now.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: We have a grandson who's five months old, thank you, and a granddaughter who's two and a half months.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: So that is a new season for us.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not every day you meet people that have grandchildren and a 12-year-old, right?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So totally.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we kind of we feel in the thick of it with you.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: So we we get where you are.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man, you're straddling two very unique worlds, really three.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: You've got the grown kids, you've launched them, grandparent.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: That has to be so rewarding.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's wonderful.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: It really is kind of special.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been married uh 26 years, 27 this year, and um just watching our children grow up.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we do have uh grown children, and we're enjoying watching them kind of learn how to be married and how to be parents themselves, but we still have one in elementary school and three in high school and two in college.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we're enjoying all of that, and it's uh and it all matters, and so it's just kind of fun.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and and the best thing about it, I think, is that uh we're so much better parents now than we were when our 25-year-olds were growing up.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: I bet much more experience about services.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I feel bad for that guy.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we're doing it.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think about that too.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just I am the oldest of four kids, and so I know my parents, I look back how they parented me, opposed to my sister who is eight years my junior.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Those looked very different.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I even, even though my kids are only like three and a half years apart from the oldest to youngest, how I parent him as opposed to my first one, I catch myself repeating history.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, but I think what's great is that you you're that's what you're bringing to the table in this book of full circle parenting, because it's not just uh ideas that you would have liked to have done your first round, but it's it's what did work and then what is working now, which is really amazing.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think the way we like to talk about it is that um we're learning all the time um from God's word, uh from other believers, and we're also learning just by experience.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh what we're sharing in our book is definitely not us saying to anybody, hey, here's how you parent, or if you'll follow these steps, you'll have these amazing perfect kids.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of saying, Hey, we've learned a lot and we're still learning a lot.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna share what we're learning, you know, with you if you read the book.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's really good.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's been it's a page turner.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm learning a lot, I'm applying it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I like to hear, though, a little bit about the behind the scenes.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, tell us, tell us the writing of it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what was maybe even what I liken to the brokenhearted moment that led to the whole-hearted decision to write the book, to to move forward in faith and pin the advice down or wisdom or experience that you want to share with others.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: So when we read your question, we were like, wow, that that's a very uh intuitive question and a no-brainer for us, because there really was a moment um when our firstborn actually was in high school and really walked through some difficult times, really um abandoned part of his faith, even though he he would always say that he was a believer.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I believed that he was, and he was at that time, but just really struggling and wanting to do things his own way.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and when that happens with your first one, it knocks you off your pins as a parent because you don't even have other kids to be like, well, we were good parents with them, and this guy was just struggling.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, just the first one out of the gate is a mess, and you're like, holy cow, we don't know what we're doing.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: But it was a very humbling moment, a humiliating moment at some time as parents, and honestly, one that we really needed because that we didn't even know that we needed.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I say that because even though we would always tell people that parenting is not formulaic, um, I think in our heart of hearts we thought that maybe it was.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we patted ourselves on the back a little bit because up until ninth grade, for him, all the rest of every, you know, everybody else was just kind of toeing the line, doing the right thing that we thought.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, we thought, you know, if these other parents would just do it this way, it would probably be better.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: No, we would never have said it, nor really let our hearts speak it, but just um just looking back, we really did put a lot of stock in what we were doing.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: And when that event and events happened with him, it really caused us to honestly fall on our face before the Lord and just cry out to him.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it gave us this understanding that all of us as parents need to know is that our hope is in God and our hope for our children is in him and in his redemptive plan.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we like to say that God stays in the game with his people, um, that you know, if if our children are believers, there is always a way forward for them, you know, if they will um go back to God's design and they will repent of their sins, that he always picks them up and can carries them on.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it's our job as parents to point them to that truth and to be that kind of a parent for them.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think it really helps us in our parenting if we can understand his redemptiveness, not just for a one-time salvation experience, but for our whole lives, that he just keeps us going and um that he will keep our kids going too.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so we it helps us stay in the game with him because we know God is not going to abandon his people.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: What was the how did you take that idea of realizing, okay, well, this there's not a formula because I it's not a recipe and that it's gonna turn out exactly as the pictures on Pinterest promise?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be those like Pinterest fail moments where you might have all the ingredients and it doesn't turn out how you want it to.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So how did you change that, but also go yet there still is some things that as a parent that you can do to help you move forward in the direction that you desire?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we we do think that God has a design for our lives.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just thinking about it in that way helps us because we think, hey, if God is the creator and he's the designer and he's designed marriage and he's designed friendship and he's designed parenting, um, and he's designed church.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so so as as we think about how God's designed it, then God certainly has a way that it's gonna work better, just like anything else that you buy.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: You buy and you buy uh you know furniture from IKEA, there's a there's instructions on how to put it together.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can probably put it together a different way, but it might not be the best way.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: It will not stay.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we've all done it.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I think a lot of people do that with their parenting, is that they they kind of have the ingredients there, but they don't read the instructions.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so then, you know, when they get it built, it doesn't stand upright, and they got a bunch of parts left over, and the one shelf is turned with the veneer on the other side, and it just and so uh I think a lot of us do that, and it's not that you can't do it, it's that the best way to do it is to follow the design that you give them the designer.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: We think you find that out in God's word.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So all I'm saying is that it's not that it's a formula, but there are best practices, and there is this idea of growing in wisdom.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wisdom you learn directly from the scriptures and from other people.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: But some of the things that you're gonna have to learn in terms of wisdom are just by doing having more parenting experience, you will become a wiser parent.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we do think that if you if you try to operate within God's design, align what's happening in your life and your parenting and your family with God's design, you're more likely to receive the blessings of God, both the kind of blessings you get from just doing it the right way, but also I think God actively, on top of that, like rains down blessings on you when he sees you intentionally trying to align.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you do all of that, there's just painful things that happen in life.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, we can put our kids in the best position we can to make good decisions for the Lord, but then they have to actually make the decisions, and they don't always make the decisions that we want them to make.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And Amy, I think that what happens with parenting is, you know, we do say it's not formulate, but then you're like, but there are things that you tell us to do in the book, and that's true.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, our parenting really should picture, show a picture to our kids about how God relates to them, and that's difficult because they've got two sinners to showing them this, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: But but um God is very clear in his word that he has expects third certain things from his people, right?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: He tells us what sin is and he tells us not to take part in it, and so that is an aspect of our parenting that we must not shirk.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so, even in the midst of our world that's changing values on an hourly basis, it feels like that's why knowing God's design, living out God's design personally first, and then sharing that with our kids is so important because they have to know what the standard is.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yet at the same time, I think as Christian parents, sometimes we go one of two ways.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: We either are scared to hold up God's design because it's so opposite of the world, and we don't want to seem like judging people.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we don't tell them exactly and then they don't know what to do, or we tell them and we're so harsh that we don't give them a way back and we don't mean for that to happen.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think we've got to we've got to, as parents, point out God's design to them all the time in every situation proactively and in the middle of you know struggles, but also we must talk about the redemptive act of this and the redemptive portion of the gospel because that's our hope.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: We are not going to get it right every time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: I need that for me personally and my parenting, like in my own life.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: I have besetting sins, I have struggles.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: I am counting on God to give me a way forward.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so we have to do both.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: We have to set God's rules and standards and design and always give them a way back when they don't white make it.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's so good, Kristen.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Along those lines, could you take those ideas and apply it to one of the topics that you address really clearly, which is about sex, gender, identity, marriage, those are big weighty topics that a lot of us parents are trying to muddle through.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I appreciate you set this up well.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Parenting isn't for wimps.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is not for the faint of heart, these conversations aren't for the faint of heart.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, help give us some courage and uh, you know, strengthen our parenting muscles on this one.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll just say uh we do believe that good theology will lead to good strategies, which will create good conversations.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the reasons we were writing the book.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you'll notice the structure of the chapters, that's how it's kind of built.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's look at the Bible and take a you know, it's a 50,000 foot view, but let's see what the Bible says on this topic and have some good theology, but then that'll give us some good strategies, ways to train our children and kind of a direction, and then hopefully that'll lead us to some good conversations.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh when it comes to uh gender, sexuality, and family structure, you there's there's some basic anchor points that we see right at the beginning of the Bible.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we know, for instance, that God made uh maleness and femaleness right out of the gate.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: First chapter of the Bible, and he made males and females.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So from that, we know God tells us, well, well, we have this uh kind of inherent built-in uh um equality between maleness and femaleness because they're both in God's image, so they're equal before God.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's complementarity because God could have just made two men or two women, but he made a man and a woman, and he said together they're gonna take dominion.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there's this um built-in uh interdependence where they have to depend on each other.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, when God says the two will become one flesh, what is it?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the expressions of two being one flesh is the baby, because you have to have a male and a female to come together.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you have a baby together, you're like, oh wow, the two of us have now made one flesh.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's this um, there's this incredible synergy between maleness and females, but there's distinction.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there's maleness and females and god made that way.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the ways we say is look, um, we with God made male and female, um, they're equal, they're distinct, but they're interdependent and complementary.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then we say that God intends for marriage to be between one man and one woman for life.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And tied into all of that is the idea.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: In today's conversation, we have to also say that we believe that gender, which is the experience or the expression of our maleness or femaleness, our sense of maleness and femaleness, if you will, that our gender is supposed to match our biology.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so, biology, that's your chromosomal structure, but also your anatomy, is supposed to match your expression and experience of maleness and femaleness.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Having said all of that, we recognize that as kids grow up, and some of our, you know, kids in our family or whatever, some of them are gonna deal with uh same-sex attraction, some of them may experience a gender dysphoria, uh, some of them may come out as gay, some of them are gonna be exposed to pornography or even get really into it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: But through all of that, our job is not to judge them or be harsh with them or make them feel pushed down or pushed out.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Our job is to try our best to pull them in and to lift them up.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to manage these conversations towards God's design while offering acceptance and love and grace for them as their parents.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And while we don't want to condone things that are contrary to God's design, that are sinful, we still, these are our children, and we're not gonna write them off as Christian offices.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna stay in the game and continue to try to pull them in and lift them up and point them towards God's design and manage these conversations towards God's design.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that is good stuff.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love how you succinctly articulated that.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of parents are gonna be like, whoo, okay, that's that's some of the courage, the word of God that I needed to formulate some of my ideas and thy theology.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I, you know, there's an element of where I, you know, we grew up in a culture that this just was not a topic of conversation.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there was smatterings here and there, but it was not anything that I was oppressed or questioned or or even wrestled through in a youth.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And now my kids have to, and I have to know and understand, not just know what I believe, but but be able to articulate what I believe.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it's that whole being ready in season and out of season with the gospel and the good news.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um I I just think it's really important for us to be grounded and rooted in theology, biblical theology to help bring context to the conversations.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So good.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: And what we have to do is we have to trust that God's design is good, perfect, right, and the most loving and healthy thing that we can display to our children.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so the world wants to tell us that it's um demoralizing to box them into such a you know a limiting framework.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: But what we know as believers and what we want our kids to know is that this is actually the most uh loving, the most exciting, the most uplifting way to live if we truly will embrace his design for us because he made us and he knows how we are gonna be most happy and most successful.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you take all of kind of the hot topics.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: This was just one chapter.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: You've you've covered several that us parents are going to be facing and really like facing day in and day out, honestly.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you you took the three circles gospel tool and you incorporate, you teach that, you incorporated it in the chapter structure and everything like that.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: So could you give us kind of a picture of what that is and and how you incorporate that, especially maybe conversations going forward that you you didn't cover in the book?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what we really want to do, that the topics we covered in the book were supposed to be just examples.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that uh we did cover five topics, and these are the topics that people ask us questions about or and and also things that we have to constantly manage in our own household.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the three circles is kind of like a conversation map that parents can use regardless of what the conversation is.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the three circles is anybody can Google this, uh, three circles gospel prop uh um presentation.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot of different versions of it out there on the internet.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: We came up with that gospel presentation at our church at Family Church about 12 years ago, and we actually came up with it, we designed it to talk about marriage and family.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then, as we designed it to talk about marriage and family, that God has a design for marriage and family.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: We read about it as all the things we just said.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then we want to do things our own way, so we depart from God's design.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Any departure from God's design is sin.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: When we do that, we end up in what we call brokenness.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And brokenness is how we feel when we are in sin or when someone sins against us, it might even be our fault.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And brokenness is what it feels like to feel cheap or empty or used or uh frustrated or guilty or full of regret.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when we find ourselves feeling that way.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like a bad thing, but there's a good aspect to it because when we feel that way, we want to change.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so we do try to change.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: So people try to, if we get in a bad relationship, we just try to get out of it and get in a different relationship, or we drink a little bit, or we try to buckle down and double down on work, or we try to white knuckle it and fix ourselves.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: What we find out is the kind of changes we make when we try to change ourselves just don't go deep enough or last long enough.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we realize that something needs to change, but we can't change ourselves to the right degree.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we realize the change has to come from somewhere else.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the gospel comes in.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the gospel is the good news that God sent Jesus, his son, to live a perfect life.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: He never departed from God's design in any area.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then Jesus was crucified on the cross for the sins of the world.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: He was raised from the dead.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if anybody will change, repent is a word for change.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Recognize our sins.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Recognize the sin debt that we owe to God because of our sins.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Recognize we're separated from God because of our sins.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: We recognize that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then we come to believe the story of Jesus, that Jesus has paid the sin debt for us, that Jesus has been crucified in our place, that Jesus came to build a bridge between us and God, to bridge that gap that our sins have created between us and God.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: If we recognize that, we we believe in Jesus, then God forgives us of our sins.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: He begins to repair the broken places in our hearts and in our lives and in our relationships.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he gives us the Holy Spirit and He gives us a church family, and we have the Bible.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And those things help us recover and pursue God's design from wherever we are.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it really doesn't matter how far into the far country we go.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: It really doesn't matter how broken the brokenness is.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: The gospel gives us a real, tangible, doable way to be redeemed, to turn the thing around, to have a whole different kind of a frame.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I love as a dad because no matter what happens with me or with Kristen or with our children, there's always a way forward.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a way up.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way that the three circles works.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So good because it's kind of you had hinted at this, Kristen, before the framework of having these conversations is going, hey, you're gonna have your kids are gonna deal with experiences that you never wanted them to have, or maybe make choices that you ever wanted them to make.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: But there's hope, there's redemption.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: If we really get the redemption and the gospel message for ourselves, then we can extend that to their to our kids.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that we didn't talk about yet, but I would love to talk about is Enneagram, because well, I'm an Enneagram coach and I can't help myself.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: My friends always joke about well, if you talk to Amy any length of time, you're gonna hear about Jesus and you're gonna hear about the Enneagram.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's just par for the course.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm wondering how much you know about the Enneagram, if you've used it to understand yourself better, communication and marriage, even maybe how you parent your kids.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, first of all, I just want to say I love the tool and um it is so insightful for myself personally, but also what you just said, it's very helpful in relating to our spouses, and it's so helpful in knowing how to parent our children because the truth is it all goes with God's design, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: So God has a general design for his people, but he's also made us all unique and special on purpose to do certain things that he's called us to do.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so we all have these unique personalities.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's so funny, Amy, because Jimmy doesn't have to take the test.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: We could just, he did.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: We could just look at the description and know he's an eight, you know, before before everybody in the family's like dad's an eight.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, our firstborn son is that way too.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: He was actually um out that we we had all of our kids take the test, just so you know you've inspired us.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Love Indian nerds now.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, but um, he was out in the field, so his wife and I both decided he's an eight, and he for sure is, but he's gonna take the test when he gets back off the field.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: But um so my number eight married a number two in me, and we were laughing at me taking the test because part of the number two's personality is that we have a hard time making decisions, and so I would be reading the thing and I'm like, I don't know, Jimmy, which one am I?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, What are you doing?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's great.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, I I think eights and twos are supposed to pair well together.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Is that true?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: We read somewhere that that was the most um the most common.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's funny is the test you were taking, one of it was a it was a binary question.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the questions was uh pick which one's right about you.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have a difficult time making decisions, I make decisions quickly and easily.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I don't know what to do.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the answer to the question.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's A then, ma'am.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's great.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: What I think is a fun combination is when people get together that have some sort of line of connection with the growth and stress.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: So for for you, Kristen, your line of stress is an eight, but there's also a key to freedom.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: I say when the Holy Spirit does his work, we do, we partner in contemplative practice and understanding the word of God and and how it speaks to us, and then we uh we take what could be negative, our weakness, and it can become a strength.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: So when a two or begins to assert themselves to or explain what their needs are, to even be able to articulate it and to know it and and be able to do it with the gentleness um but force, then they have or come to that key of freedom that I like to call it.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of a good example.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when Jimmy's doing really good, you can be like, oh yeah, that's that's how I want to do it.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then vice versa for for Jimmy, he looks at, and that's his line of growth of you know, you're servant-hearted and you are you're working because what the Holy Spirit is compelling you to, not for accolades and not for affirmation or love.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then it's got it's this really sweet, you know, uh symbiotic relationship that you got going on that just sweetens the deal and the partnership, especially as you guys minister together.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we do.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I tell you the truth, take an Enneagram test and talked about, and I've read way back to you and these other books like that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm somewhat familiar with it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: She hasn't done as much, but I will say I do think that the idea that we do have a personality, that we do have a way that God has put us together and it's unique.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um one of the one of the best ways I think that we can kind of be marriage-centered is to be a student of our spouses and learn what makes them tick and learn how, you know, why do they feel the way that they feel?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, so so sometimes when we'll say to one another, you know, when this happens, you always react that way.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's not really a good way to argue.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your counselor will tell you that, yeah, but it's true.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why do I always react that way?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I'm kind of wired this certain way, and if we can understand each other and even understand ourselves, boy, that can make our marriage healthier.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, even in communication, right?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, like uh, you know, I'm more soft-spoken.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you've had to help tell me to get closer to the mic multiple times from this podcast.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: But um, and so, you know, when when Jimmy speaks in a uh, I don't want to say yelling, although I'll go, why are you yelling?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, I'm not yelling, but it's just a forceful, assertive tone.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: If I were speaking like that, I would be angry.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: But he's not angry.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's just the way that he is wired to communicate.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: He's a leader, he's you know, he's direct.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so learning how, you know, we talk to our kids a lot about learning how to think of other people, you know, that that's really important.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so this Enneagram gives you a framework of learning how to think of others.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: That I can't always just uh assume certain things about him because this is how I would be feeling.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like I it takes time to learn him.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: And the same goes for our children, you know, we can we cannot parent them all in the exact same way because they're not going to receive instruction in the same way that their brother's gonna receive it.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually think that this this whole Enneagram approach is so helpful in in any relationship, but in particular in our homes, because it gives us this framework to understand each other so that we can communicate better and so that we can partner together better and build each other up.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I love it.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's so well said.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: The communication piece, like I when I finally understood that I was the reason why I was assertive is just that's my personality type.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be more assertive in my communication, and my husband's gonna be more withdrawn, and you know, he's gonna just take his time to respond.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Then I didn't wasn't trying so hard to get a response out of him.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, I knew like I just need to wait.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: He just needs a minute.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, he does.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's and and how you articulated, I think that really shifts the uh the framework of looking at the Enneagram as something as a navel gazing.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we can take self-awareness tools for like that, just doesn't deserve us because it's not just about us, it's about what you said.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: How can we better, you know, strengthen our marriages, strengthen the relationship with our kids, understand similar to the love languages?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that they need?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right off.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: So what are you and what is your husband?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Just real quick, I want to know.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm I lead as a seven and my husband leads as a nine.
• 31:35
  unknown: Okay.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of have the opposite of you know, response to it, which I that's why I fell in love with him because I wanted somebody different.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted that, you know, the calm, laid back, steady.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he wanted, you know, a little bit excitement and adventure and when it's doing well instead of flighty and flaky when I'm not doing so great.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a fun tool.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guys, it's been a real joy and privilege to get to talk to you to get some.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I've gotten to sit and get some glean some, you know, parenting wisdom and life wisdom.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you just have a lot to offer.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: So let my friends know where they can find you so they can maybe listen to some sermons online and check out what you're doing.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: So our our uh church website is uh it's we're at Family Church in South Florida, it's gofamilychurch.org.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Kristen Podcast has a great podcast called The Mom Village, where you can hear it's all about momming.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's a multicultural group of moms.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: They just do an incredible job.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, if you want to check out our book, you can go to the website fullcircleparentingbook.com, or you can buy the book on Amazon or anywhere else that you would like to buy books.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: I have no doubt my friends are gonna want to listen, follow, and read.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is definitely if you're a parent, get this book.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: You just it's gonna be a great resource that you're gonna appreciate you had.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you guys.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Amy, for having us on.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: What a pleasure.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: What did you think?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know I really appreciate getting parenting advice and perspective from a well-seasoned and wise couple like the Scruggens.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: I would love for you to get their book, Full Circle Parenting, where you can get all the advice on all the conversations that you should be having with your kids.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And also check out their podcast.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have all the links for you in the show notes.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, next week is our final conversation with the last but not least Enneagram 9 guest.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Robin Cohn from the podcast and ministry Storytellers Live is going to be sharing about her life from her perspective.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: So not only can you better understand yourself if you lead as a Type 9, but maybe those that you love.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, would you do me a small favor?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Would you take a minute and leave a five-star review of this podcast?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: So many are looking for the content that I provide in these episodes, and your review will help me get the word out to others.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now remember, friend, you are the mom your kids need.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for the whole hearted life you desire.