Latest / Green Benches with Deiniol Brown / Josh Newbury MP: Backing Rosebank and Jackdaw, and Hope for the Burnham Government

Transcript

Josh Newbury MP: Backing Rosebank and Jackdaw, and Hope for the Burnham Government · Green Benches with Deiniol Brown

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Order, order.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: When I was sort of in my early teenage years,
0:11
SPEAKER_01: I had the benefit of things like youth services and careers advice.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: And I saw gradually as austerity started to come in and that was being peeled away.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: So I've never been one to say that we should dial down or abandon our commitments to net zero.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: But I do think we tie ourselves in knots on this question around the North Sea.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: You can see like that we're really hungry for things to change in certain areas.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think, yeah, Andy's speech will be a big moment.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Green Benches,
0:43
SPEAKER_00: a new feature for Politics UK with me,
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Daniel Brown,
0:47
SPEAKER_00: where we're going to be talking to MPs from across the house on their background,
0:52
SPEAKER_00: their political inspiration,
0:54
SPEAKER_00: the campaigns they're working on and some of the issues of the day.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: And with me, I've got Josh Newbury, MP for Cannock Chase, member of the Labour Party.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to be talking today about His background,
1:08
SPEAKER_00: a bit about Cannock Chase and a bit about some of the issues he's been working on
1:12
SPEAKER_00: in Parliament.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: It's very nice to be with you.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for having me on.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: It's great to be here.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: OK, so I'm going to get stuck in straight away and just ask you a bit
1:22
SPEAKER_00: about your early political influences.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Were your parents particularly political?
1:28
SPEAKER_00: What kind of got you involved or interested in politics as a young person?
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a funny one, actually, because my parents weren't particularly political.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't really the kind of thing that would be talked about around the dinner table.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: My parents,
1:43
SPEAKER_01: I'd say,
1:44
SPEAKER_01: were both people who would vote in a general election because they considered that,
1:48
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:48
SPEAKER_01: their duty,
1:49
SPEAKER_01: it's important to decide who should run the country,
1:52
SPEAKER_01: but probably wouldn't take an interest at any other time.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: So I kind of came to it myself,
1:56
SPEAKER_01: I suppose,
1:57
SPEAKER_01: and I was actually the child that was nagging them to be You know,
2:00
SPEAKER_01: more interested in what was happening on a local level to vote in every election
2:04
SPEAKER_01: because I couldn't.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I was probably a real pain in the arse when I was a teenager.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: But I suppose what really brought me to politics was things I could see happening
2:14
SPEAKER_01: in my area, particularly to do with services for young people.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: When I was sort of in my early teenage years,
2:21
SPEAKER_01: I had the benefit of things like youth services and careers advice.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: And I saw gradually as austerity started to come in and that was being peeled away.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
2:32
SPEAKER_01: by the time I got to university age,
2:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
2:34
SPEAKER_01: that really kind of hit the steroids really and really took off and you sort
2:39
SPEAKER_01: of saw things disappear at a rapid rate.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of saw that happening around me and thought,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: well, Somebody's got to be speaking up on these things, right?
2:47
SPEAKER_01: But I couldn't really find anybody at council level or member of parliament
2:51
SPEAKER_01: that was kind of really raising those issues.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time,
2:55
SPEAKER_01: I could see some instances where the local council was trying to engage
2:58
SPEAKER_01: with young people.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: But in my,
3:01
SPEAKER_01: in my opinion was doing it really badly wasn't kind of reaching people my age on
3:06
SPEAKER_01: the sort of spaces and places where we were.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: And we're kind of offering incentives that weren't really relevant to us anymore.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: And I mentioned this to one of the local And he said,
3:16
SPEAKER_01: I think you've got to understand is most of us are in our 60s or 70s
3:20
SPEAKER_01: and we don't know what young people are thinking and feeling these days.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So if you have opinions on that,
3:25
SPEAKER_01: you should put your money where your mouth is,
3:27
SPEAKER_01: get involved,
3:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
3:28
SPEAKER_01: start speaking to us about what we should be doing differently
3:31
SPEAKER_01: and ultimately put yourself forward for election because we need those voices
3:34
SPEAKER_01: on councils to help us, you know, Get what makes young people tick these days.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where I first came to it, really.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: And I suppose from there, really,
3:45
SPEAKER_01: I just stood for my local council,
3:48
SPEAKER_01: started volunteering with various charities and organisations locally and kind
3:52
SPEAKER_01: of went from there, really.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: So that was my route through the door, I suppose.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'll probably ask you a bit more about your time as a councillor in a second.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: But I was also wondering,
4:03
SPEAKER_00: when you were kind of developing a political identity,
4:07
SPEAKER_00: who were the kind of figures who you saw as your political inspirations,
4:13
SPEAKER_00: maybe councillors you talked to,
4:14
SPEAKER_00: maybe national political figures,
4:16
SPEAKER_00: and how did they change how you thought about politics?
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think probably the first politician that I remember meeting was
4:25
SPEAKER_01: the former Labour MP for North West Leicestershire,
4:27
SPEAKER_01: David Taylor, who had been an MP since 1997.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And he was really well thought of locally.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: He was one of those MPs.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: That got people from across the political spectrum voting for him
4:38
SPEAKER_01: because they just thought he was an independent voice.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: He always was on top of things happening in the constituency, speaking up for people locally.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: And they could just see how, you know, he was a strong voice for their community.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: And that's very similar,
4:54
SPEAKER_01: actually,
4:54
SPEAKER_01: to my immediate Labour predecessor in Cannot Chase,
4:57
SPEAKER_01: Tony Wright, who very much is spoken about in the same way.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think I saw in David somebody who just took the job of being a representative
5:05
SPEAKER_01: and really lived it to the fullest in the way it's supposed to be.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think that was,
5:11
SPEAKER_01: for a lot of people, that's refreshing because it's not always how they think of...
5:15
SPEAKER_01: Politics, particularly at Westminster level.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
5:18
SPEAKER_01: I spoke to some of the councillors in my area,
5:20
SPEAKER_01: like John Legree,
5:21
SPEAKER_01: for example, who's still a councillor in Colville, where I grew up.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: And, yeah,
5:26
SPEAKER_01: on a national level,
5:27
SPEAKER_01: I suppose one of my kind of political idols was David Miliband,
5:31
SPEAKER_01: because I saw him as somebody who was very charismatic.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: Might not have agreed with him politically on everything,
5:38
SPEAKER_01: but he was somebody that I saw as, like, you know, an inspirational person.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Potential leader.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: And so he was one of the people that kind of made me think, right, well,
5:48
SPEAKER_01: I should probably join a political party if I actually want to be part
5:51
SPEAKER_01: of this discussion and actually,
5:53
SPEAKER_01: you know,
5:54
SPEAKER_01: really get stuck into not just sitting back and spectating in politics,
5:58
SPEAKER_01: but actually being active and joining in the conversation.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And maybe aside from the figures,
6:06
SPEAKER_00: were there any kind of standout moments that really inspired you to get involved
6:12
SPEAKER_00: in politics?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Now you've kind of talked about a few already,
6:15
SPEAKER_00: but were there any specific moments where the need almost to get involved
6:20
SPEAKER_00: in politics struck you particularly?
6:24
SPEAKER_01: I do remember when I...
6:28
SPEAKER_01: First put myself forward for election.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: I remember getting a leaflet through the door from one of the other candidates
6:32
SPEAKER_01: that was standing in the same election,
6:35
SPEAKER_01: who I think was a BNP candidate because they were,
6:37
SPEAKER_01: believe it or not, at one point quite strong in the area that I grew up.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: And I remember one of the points she had
6:43
SPEAKER_01: on her leaflet was we've got all these young people loitering around
6:46
SPEAKER_01: and they're causing a nuisance or intimidating people.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
6:51
SPEAKER_01: this is something that I will do something about if you elect me as your councillor.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: And I remember saying to her,
6:56
SPEAKER_01: have you ever actually spoken to somebody my age and understood,
7:00
SPEAKER_01: you know, how little there is for young people to do?
7:02
SPEAKER_01: And that's why they're kind of hanging around in the park or in the town centre.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever actually thought about how little gets spent of taxpayers' money
7:10
SPEAKER_01: on council budgets on things for young people?
7:13
SPEAKER_01: And that actually maybe we're just as in need of that as the older generation are
7:18
SPEAKER_01: with, you know, Providing things in the community.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: And I think I kind of stunned her into silence.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: And that was one moment for me that stands out because it was an issue
7:28
SPEAKER_01: that I felt passionate about,
7:29
SPEAKER_01: that I felt there was a lack of understanding between the generations on
7:32
SPEAKER_01: and challenged her on it.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: And she kind of had nothing to say in response.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of thought, actually, This is what it's all about, right?
7:40
SPEAKER_01: This is the kind of thing that we need to be doing if we want our perspective
7:43
SPEAKER_01: to be heard and want the conversation to be a bit fuller and representative
7:47
SPEAKER_01: of everybody.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: You've got to be in the room.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: You can't just moan about it on social media.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: You've got to be in the places where decisions are made and money gets spent
7:56
SPEAKER_01: in order to make sure that everybody in your community gets a look in.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's one thing when I was probably about 18 years old that kind of stands out to me.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: And I also know that you worked for an NHS trust, I believe, for a number of years.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: How do you feel that working for the NHS has affected your politics
8:19
SPEAKER_00: or maybe how you've approached being an MP?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
8:25
SPEAKER_01: I had a kind of varied time in the NHS,
8:28
SPEAKER_01: actually,
8:28
SPEAKER_01: because I started off working in healthcare science,
8:31
SPEAKER_01: which is quite, I think, quite an underappreciated part of the NHS workforce.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: And then I went into mental health.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: And then lastly, just before I got elected, I finished up working with general practice.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: I think I actually decided to look for a job in the NHS initially because I'd worked
8:50
SPEAKER_01: in public affairs in the energy industry.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: I'd also become a counsellor at the same time.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of felt like I was doing politics in my home life and my day life
8:57
SPEAKER_01: and it was all just a bit much.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Because even for me, there's a limit to how much, you know, you want to have Every single day.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: So I kind of thought that would be a different direction for me to go in
9:07
SPEAKER_01: with somebody working in communications.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: A very different focus.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: It's obviously a very apolitical environment being in the public sector.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah,
9:16
SPEAKER_01: I think it shaped me in the sense that I could certainly see Through,
9:21
SPEAKER_01: particularly when I worked at a mental health trust,
9:22
SPEAKER_01: how there's so many things are interlinked in our society and people who are dealt
9:27
SPEAKER_01: a rough hand,
9:28
SPEAKER_01: whether it's coming to a family that has a lot of challenges or they end up in care
9:34
SPEAKER_01: or they live in a really deprived area or they're just not seen by different bits of
9:41
SPEAKER_01: the public sector, whether it be the NHS or local councils.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: That can lead you down a path in life that often results in,
9:48
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: higher rates of imprisonment,
9:53
SPEAKER_01: you know, more run into the police and poorer health outcomes as well.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: And when you see kind of particularly in mental health,
10:00
SPEAKER_01: I think we were on a big effort at that point in time of seeing people in the ground
10:04
SPEAKER_01: a lot more rather than just dealing with Challenges they were having
10:07
SPEAKER_01: with their mental health,
10:08
SPEAKER_01: bringing in things like housing support and financial advice to sort of unpick
10:12
SPEAKER_01: where people had gone wrong with their mental health,
10:15
SPEAKER_01: because there's always something that sits behind it.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: People don't just become sick for no reason.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And that I think opened my eyes to How many moving parts there are in that
10:26
SPEAKER_01: and how we can't just look at things in isolation,
10:28
SPEAKER_01: which we often do on a government level.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: We've got to weave everything together.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think when you've got that mindset and you want to be involved in politics
10:38
SPEAKER_01: and you've potentially got a platform to be able to raise those things.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: You've got to kind of speak up about that.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: You've got to bring those experiences that you got in your professional life into
10:47
SPEAKER_01: that political arena,
10:48
SPEAKER_01: because it's only through,
10:50
SPEAKER_01: I think,
10:51
SPEAKER_01: actually seeing it and living it yourself that you can kind of appreciate
10:55
SPEAKER_01: where we need to get to and where the political class needs to really grasp
11:00
SPEAKER_01: the nettle on things that we've just ignored for decades.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: And having been a councillor before becoming an MP,
11:07
SPEAKER_00: how do you think that experience has affected your Relationship with politics,
11:12
SPEAKER_00: maybe having some experience of,
11:16
SPEAKER_00: you know, policy work and implementing policies before.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And what was it that really drove you to being an MP?
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Was it that experience of being a councillor that inspired you to become an MP
11:29
SPEAKER_00: or was it something else?
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'm a massive advocate for local government.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: I think, again,
11:36
SPEAKER_01: like Healthcare Science,
11:37
SPEAKER_01: a very underappreciated part of the political sphere, I think.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: I personally think that there's an argument that every MP should have done a stint
11:47
SPEAKER_01: as a local councillor.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: And I don't say that in the sense that it's a stepping stone,
11:52
SPEAKER_01: because I really think people shouldn't view being a councillor as a stepping stone
11:55
SPEAKER_01: to being an MP.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: It's an incredibly important role in its own right, and it has its own
12:04
SPEAKER_01: But I do think that it gives you a really strong grounding.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Not only do you understand sort of political process,
12:09
SPEAKER_01: but I think much more importantly,
12:10
SPEAKER_01: you understand the true meaning of representation.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: As a councillor,
12:14
SPEAKER_01: you have a much smaller geographic area to represent,
12:17
SPEAKER_01: and that often means that you can get really into The fabric of your community
12:24
SPEAKER_01: and get involved with all those organisations that make your community tick
12:27
SPEAKER_01: and make it a brilliant place to live and to really understand what are
12:31
SPEAKER_01: the challenges that your residents face and bring that to the council chamber.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's not always about the big, flashy, giant national debates that we have.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: And even if we do have those big national debates,
12:43
SPEAKER_01: it's always about bringing it back to the local.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: How is this relevant to the people I represent?
12:47
SPEAKER_01: Are their voices and their views being heard in this discussion
12:50
SPEAKER_01: or are we just having it In the Westminster bubble.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: So I think in that sense,
12:55
SPEAKER_01: like being a councillor absolutely shaped how I've approached being an MP.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: And it did lead me to being an MP in a lot of ways.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: I never saw being an MP as like my life's mission,
13:07
SPEAKER_01: the one thing that I needed to do,
13:09
SPEAKER_01: the one thing that I was working towards all the way along.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: But I found as a councillor,
13:14
SPEAKER_01: A lot of frustrations and barriers in the way,
13:16
SPEAKER_01: whether it's a lack of funding or lack of powers to actually affect change
13:21
SPEAKER_01: in your community in the way that you want to,
13:22
SPEAKER_01: to be able to resolve all those issues that people bring to you as a counsellor
13:26
SPEAKER_01: that you often don't have control over.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Thought to myself and said to a lot of my colleagues in local government, like,
13:33
SPEAKER_01: is it not,
13:33
SPEAKER_01: do you not find it frustrating that we don't have more control and ability
13:37
SPEAKER_01: to do things for our community?
13:39
SPEAKER_01: And everybody would say yes,
13:40
SPEAKER_01: but it would always come back to Westminster
13:41
SPEAKER_01: or Westminster doesn't really understand how local government works.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: They don't value it.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: We're not kind of respected as leaders in our own right, in our communities.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: It's always the leadership's got to come from Westminster and then we just sort
13:53
SPEAKER_01: of get told what to do or told what we're going to receive.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of felt, well,
13:57
SPEAKER_01: if I feel that that's a shift that we need in British politics,
14:01
SPEAKER_01: then I've got to be part of that.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And also, like, my...
14:06
SPEAKER_01: My predecessor as an MP,
14:08
SPEAKER_01: I think,
14:09
SPEAKER_01: had lost touch with some of that,
14:11
SPEAKER_01: what some people would call pavement politics,
14:13
SPEAKER_01: like the everyday issues that are happening locally
14:16
SPEAKER_01: that maybe just affect your area.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: And you need to be that single voice in Parliament bringing those things up.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: She'd been a minister,
14:24
SPEAKER_01: she'd been a whip,
14:25
SPEAKER_01: she hadn't spoken in Parliament an awful lot, particularly in her last term.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think people were kind of frustrated with that because it's the kind of area
14:32
SPEAKER_01: where people want A good constituency MP like we had in Dr Tony Wright,
14:38
SPEAKER_01: like David Taylor was in the area that I grew up.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: And now moving on to your career as an MP, you joined Parliament in 2024.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm interested to know how you found that experience so far over the last two years,
14:51
SPEAKER_00: maybe what have been some of the biggest shocks since becoming an MP,
14:55
SPEAKER_00: where have you felt most comfortable and maybe least comfortable in the things
14:59
SPEAKER_00: that you've Worked with or the things that you've had to deal with since becoming
15:05
SPEAKER_00: an MP.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: I suppose one thing that really struck me is how slow things are in Westminster and,
15:13
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:13
SPEAKER_01: the interaction between Parliament and Whitehall and how often that goes
15:18
SPEAKER_01: a lot slower than you'd want.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: It seems like there are some political issues that have,
15:22
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:22
SPEAKER_01: huge buy-in from across the political spectrum,
15:25
SPEAKER_01: or maybe we all agree are issues that we've kicked the can down the road
15:27
SPEAKER_01: for far too long.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: And so you'd kind of think, well, we all seem to be on the same page.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, surely we can just do this and get it done quite quickly.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: I suppose...
15:36
SPEAKER_01: Where I felt most comfortable, I've always been a details person.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't kind of broad brush loads of different things.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather focus on things that either mean a lot to my constituency Or I've got
15:49
SPEAKER_01: a bit of professional background
15:50
SPEAKER_01: and I feel like I can actually contribute something rather
15:52
SPEAKER_01: than just repeating some lines that everybody's saying.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: So for that reason,
15:57
SPEAKER_01: I decided to stand for a select committee because I think when you're
16:00
SPEAKER_01: a select committee,
16:01
SPEAKER_01: you have the ability to look at things in detail,
16:04
SPEAKER_01: question ministers and very senior civil servants on you know the real specifics
16:10
SPEAKER_01: of things that you you want to get into and unpack perhaps
16:13
SPEAKER_01: where they're not going well or you've got kind of suggestions
16:16
SPEAKER_01: of different directions we could go in and we get access to like
16:20
SPEAKER_01: the most fantastic briefings and information you know visits to go
16:25
SPEAKER_01: and see people get out of Westminster to go and speak to real people where they live
16:29
SPEAKER_01: and work about what they want to see from the political class in Westminster
16:33
SPEAKER_01: and that's been I've enjoyed that so much.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: It really feeds into a lot of my passions and the way that I work,
16:40
SPEAKER_01: the way my brain works as well.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: I think one thing that I've been struck by and just had to take in my stride over
16:49
SPEAKER_01: the last couple of years has been the kind of pressure that sometimes comes
16:53
SPEAKER_01: with being an MP that's interested in a particular issue,
16:57
SPEAKER_01: that there might be a tiny number of MPs that talk about that thing,
17:00
SPEAKER_01: or maybe you're the only one.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: And so you kind of almost De facto become a national spokesperson on that thing.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: And you often sit back and think, I'm not an expert on that by any means.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: I've just had a constituent bring it to me and have suddenly,
17:15
SPEAKER_01: you know, looked into it and started to work on it.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: Or I've picked up a couple of things that people have said and now it's become
17:21
SPEAKER_01: a big campaign for me.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you can just be sort of thrust into that position and find yourself
17:28
SPEAKER_01: as like somehow a spokesperson for like thousands of people that have got
17:32
SPEAKER_01: that particular issue.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: And I've spoken to colleagues about that and everybody finds that equally kind
17:38
SPEAKER_01: of daunting and a bit odd.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: But I think you just have to take on board the fact that you're in
17:43
SPEAKER_01: a privileged position being an MP.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're not taking those opportunities, you're not really doing the job right.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that's kind of a struggle at first, but you do get used to it.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: You become kind of normalized to that.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: And I've got some questions about your select committee work,
18:03
SPEAKER_00: which I'm very interested in,
18:04
SPEAKER_00: in a bit,
18:05
SPEAKER_00: but just returning to your career as an MP and you're the MP for Cannock Chase
18:11
SPEAKER_00: and you've got the map of Cannock Chase behind you.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to ask for people who maybe aren't familiar with the constituency,
18:21
SPEAKER_00: people listening to this,
18:23
SPEAKER_00: what's something that you want everyone to know about Cannock Chase?
18:26
SPEAKER_00: What do you think is something that Everyone should know about Cannock Chase.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: The thing I always say to people who maybe aren't familiar with my area or You know,
18:38
SPEAKER_01: might have a sort of stereotypical view of it is that we are so much more than just
18:43
SPEAKER_01: the forest.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Constituency is named after the,
18:45
SPEAKER_01: you know,
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Cannot Chase area of outstanding natural beauty, which is a real focal point for us.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, it kind of binds together all of the communities in my constituency.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: It's something that we are incredibly proud of.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: We feel fiercely protective over.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: That many people have moved to the area to be close to.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: It's a real sort of pilgrimage site for a lot of people that grew up in the West Midlands.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: Even people I speak to in like inner city Birmingham have been to Cannot Chase
19:10
SPEAKER_01: at some point in their childhood.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: But often people imagine the forest.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: They Google Cannot Chase and the pictures of the deer come up and really beautiful landscapes.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's incredibly important.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: And I talk about it a lot.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: But what I always stress to people is that there are Wonderful,
19:30
SPEAKER_01: tight-knit, fantastic communities that are around that forest.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: We have our challenges.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: It's predominantly quite a deprived area.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: We kind of had at the heart of Arav.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Industry ripped out in the 80s and 90s with the closure of the coal mines.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: And in some ways, we're still kind of struggling with the consequences of that.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: But people are very hardworking.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: They, you know,
19:57
SPEAKER_01: the thing that strikes people when they come to my part of
20:00
SPEAKER_01: the world is how friendly people are.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: People will just strike up a conversation with you or offer a helping hand
20:05
SPEAKER_01: with something or just have an incidental little chat.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think you get that in many places these days.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: It's something that people feel like is something of a thing of the past,
20:15
SPEAKER_01: whereas it's not in Cannock Chase and in the towns and villages that I represent.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think,
20:21
SPEAKER_01: you know,
20:21
SPEAKER_01: my job is to try and make sure that people hear about those communities more
20:25
SPEAKER_01: and understand what makes us tick and what we really need to succeed.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there's a lot more to Cannock Chase than just the forest that it's named after.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I always stress that to people.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: And when you were elected for Cannock Chase in 2024,
20:44
SPEAKER_00: you overturned a substantial Conservative majority.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to ask,
20:50
SPEAKER_00: why do you think that the people of Cannock Chase were ready to vote Labour in 2024?
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And how have you tried to maybe take Cannock Chase's politics,
21:02
SPEAKER_00: Cannock Chase's Uh,
21:04
SPEAKER_00: unique, uh, perspective to Westminster and to your, uh, work as an MP.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: And now, uh,
21:12
SPEAKER_00: coming to your work on the Environment,
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Food and Rural Affairs Committee, um,
21:17
SPEAKER_00: this year's obviously, uh, been, uh,
21:20
SPEAKER_00: a very hot year for the UK and that's come with a lot of wildfires,
21:25
SPEAKER_00: which I believe your constituency was affected by.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was wondering how, uh,
21:32
SPEAKER_00: What kind of conversations have been going on your select committee
21:37
SPEAKER_00: and around your select committee about those wildfires?
21:41
SPEAKER_00: And what do you think the lessons are for the government,
21:45
SPEAKER_00: for the UK government and the state on how we deal with these kind of issues,
21:51
SPEAKER_00: the approaches we take to the environment?
21:53
SPEAKER_00: What should we be learning from this summer's extreme heat?
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I came back to Westminster in September absolutely determined to make this.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, a big part of the national conversation.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: And many of us did who had communities that were affected in a huge swathes
22:09
SPEAKER_01: of my constituency and parts of Cannot Chase that sit just outside
22:12
SPEAKER_01: of my boundary were hugely affected.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: You know,
22:16
SPEAKER_01: we've had huge areas of heatland,
22:17
SPEAKER_01: for example, that's been Heathland is an incredibly precious and rare habitat.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: It's rarer than rainforest.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: And we lost hectares and hectares of it.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think that it really affected a lot of us in kind of chase emotionally,
22:31
SPEAKER_01: as well as people being concerned about what it says about our preparedness as
22:36
SPEAKER_01: a country for extreme weather.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of us felt a kind of sense of loss over that.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I've tried to reflect back in Westminster,
22:45
SPEAKER_01: that it's not just about policy or do we invest money here or there.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: It's also about the kind of emotional impact of that as well.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: And that was obviously felt most acutely by our firefighters who were out there day
22:59
SPEAKER_01: after day in horrendous conditions.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Six of them in Staffordshire ended up in hospital.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And we know that fire services across the country were really stretched.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean,
23:09
SPEAKER_01: on my committee,
23:10
SPEAKER_01: we did quite a bit of work on wildfires already because we knew this was
23:13
SPEAKER_01: an issue last year.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: We've had a number of bad wildfire seasons in the last five years.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: But we've come back to it straight away after the summer recess and we had
23:24
SPEAKER_01: a big session with the minister from Ministry of Housing Community,
23:28
SPEAKER_01: the local government,
23:29
SPEAKER_01: which looks at fire services,
23:30
SPEAKER_01: as well as the Nature Minister in Depra,
23:32
SPEAKER_01: because obviously natural resilience is a massive part of this,
23:35
SPEAKER_01: as well as how our public services respond to wildfire outbreaks.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: We're very much, I mean,
23:43
SPEAKER_01: I certainly welcome the investment the government's already put in before we hit
23:47
SPEAKER_01: the summer, recognising that this is a rising threat.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: I think it was £97 million the government's invested in kind of equipment,
23:54
SPEAKER_01: in national teams that are specialised in tackling wildfires,
23:58
SPEAKER_01: which includes Greater Manchester,
23:59
SPEAKER_01: who support us in Staffordshire,
24:02
SPEAKER_01: and also in the sort of hit and training that they've got to equip them better.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: But I think...
24:08
SPEAKER_01: The truth is that even with that investment,
24:11
SPEAKER_01: it's still not enough, given the scale of what we've faced this summer.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: I think the pace of the changing climate has outstripped anything that any of us expected.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: And we need to prepare ourselves for the fact that we are likely to have very hot,
24:24
SPEAKER_01: dry summers going forward.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: And so this is probably not going to be a one off.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: So I've been sort of asking, what can we do to be better prepared for next summer?
24:33
SPEAKER_01: And then what do we need to kind of invest in going forward in the future?
24:35
SPEAKER_01: I think learning from countries like Australia,
24:39
SPEAKER_01: America, Spain, France,
24:41
SPEAKER_01: that have been tackling the types of wildfires we saw this summer
24:45
SPEAKER_01: for decades is really important because they've got an awful lot they can teach us.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: And the minister was telling me that there's an exchange actually going on
24:52
SPEAKER_01: between British and Greek firefighters where they're helping us to tackle Wildfires
24:58
SPEAKER_01: in dry forests better, and we're helping them to tackle fires in high-rise flats.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: So I think that kind of international collaboration is really important.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: I do think we need to look even further,
25:09
SPEAKER_01: and I'm sure the Prime Minister will do this at
25:11
SPEAKER_01: the Wildfires Summit later this year,
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Better equipping our fire services in terms of training and exposure
25:17
SPEAKER_01: to what they might be facing, but also equipment.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: There are some things like aerial support,
25:22
SPEAKER_01: for example,
25:23
SPEAKER_01: that we don't really have in this country and we probably need to look
25:25
SPEAKER_01: at going forward because that's a critical plank of national resilience
25:28
SPEAKER_01: that I think we're going to have to put in place.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: But also one thing that I'm pushing and trying to get as much buy in for is I think
25:38
SPEAKER_01: a public awareness campaign is really important.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: I remember growing up,
25:41
SPEAKER_01: we had campaigns around speeding, for example, and testing your smoke alarm.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: And they really hit home to the public and people really sat up and listened to that.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
25:53
SPEAKER_01: we've got the whole issue of since COVID,
25:55
SPEAKER_01: people are less trusting of government in general.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: So it would need to be a campaign that is run across fire services
26:03
SPEAKER_01: and perhaps retailers as well.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: We've got a role to play in this,
26:07
SPEAKER_01: local councils and people in our communities that are affected.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: But I think we need a big message to go out to the public that...
26:17
SPEAKER_01: This is something that we've all got to be aware of.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: And we've also got to understand the impact of this.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: When wildfires happen,
26:23
SPEAKER_01: the amount that we lose in terms of animals,
26:26
SPEAKER_01: plant life, like I said, precious habitats, people's homes.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we saw 18 homes destroyed in Stourbridge, which is not far from my constituency.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: There were instances of fires in my communities that were very close
26:38
SPEAKER_01: to people's homes in the Hennisford area.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: So this is something that I think we need to wake up to.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: And now maybe on the other side of the environmentalist coin,
26:49
SPEAKER_00: as chair of the Energy Studies APPG,
26:52
SPEAKER_00: I was very interested in your thoughts on the Burnham government's new approach
26:57
SPEAKER_00: to North Sea energy and potentially revisiting North Sea oil and gas.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on this?
27:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that this is a good move from the government, a pragmatic move?
27:11
SPEAKER_00: And how do you balance those competing priorities of the climate and energy?
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, I mean,
27:20
SPEAKER_01: one of the reasons that I came into politics was that I was passionate about
27:24
SPEAKER_01: the environment and about tackling climate change.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: That was something that I think many people in my generation view very differently,
27:32
SPEAKER_01: perhaps, than some of the generations that have gone before.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Often day-to-day struggles like the cost of living take precedence quite naturally.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: We've always got to be mindful of that.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: So I've never been one to say that we should dial down or abandon our commitments to net zero.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: But I do think we tie ourselves in knots on this question around the North Sea
27:54
SPEAKER_01: because I think sometimes it's set up as a choice between...
27:59
SPEAKER_01: Ignoring climate change and focusing on the journey to net zero.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Whereas I actually think when it comes to this question
28:05
SPEAKER_01: of should we have more drilling in the North Sea around licenses
28:11
SPEAKER_01: that have already been explored,
28:12
SPEAKER_01: like Jackdaw and Rosebank,
28:14
SPEAKER_01: it's actually a choice between oil and gas produced
28:18
SPEAKER_01: to higher environmental standards in the UK and oil and gas,
28:22
SPEAKER_01: which is invariably produced to lower standards in countries like America, Qatar.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: To me, that's the choice that we're facing here.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: And I would much rather see oil and gas produced domestically,
28:34
SPEAKER_01: which will be produced to good standards and vitally will protect jobs.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: I think another red herring in this debate is prices.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Some people have tried to make the argument that we draw more in the North Sea,
28:46
SPEAKER_01: it will bring down costs at home.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Actually,
28:49
SPEAKER_01: we all know that this is part of an international market
28:51
SPEAKER_01: and prices really are set out of our control domestically in the UK.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: So to me, what we should really be focusing on is jobs at this point.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: We know that in some months we've lost more than a thousand jobs from the northeast of Scotland.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: That is a completely unsustainable level of job losses.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Sadly, investment,
29:10
SPEAKER_01: particularly since President Trump was re-elected,
29:12
SPEAKER_01: has not been as strong in renewable sectors.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: And so those new jobs in the sort of technologies and fuels of
29:19
SPEAKER_01: the future are not coming in quickly enough to replace the jobs that are being lost
29:22
SPEAKER_01: from oil and gas, particularly in Scotland.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's hugely damaging.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: And I completely stunned with the trade unions who are saying,
29:30
SPEAKER_01: look, we're four square behind Net zero.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: We're not abandoning that commitment whatsoever,
29:37
SPEAKER_01: but we've got to do something to stem the tide of job losses.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: And many of those people are actually moving to the Gulf state countries
29:43
SPEAKER_01: where their expertise is being used in the oil and gas sector.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: And those countries are selling oil and gas to us,
29:49
SPEAKER_01: like with the expertise that our own British workers have got.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's just nonsensical to me.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: We shouldn't be setting this up as a choice between net zero
30:00
SPEAKER_01: and abandoning our environmental commitments.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: To me, it's about supporting the transition in a way.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: We talk about just transition.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: What's more just than protecting people's jobs in the interim whilst we move
30:12
SPEAKER_01: to those sectors of the future?
30:15
SPEAKER_01: That's what the trade unions are saying, and I completely agree with them.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't think we should set this up as a false choice.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: I think we should allow other political parties to sort of mischaracterise the debate here.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I hope that the government will take a sensible,
30:29
SPEAKER_01: pragmatic approach on that,
30:31
SPEAKER_01: in line with our manifesto commitments still,
30:33
SPEAKER_01: but say,
30:34
SPEAKER_01: look, let's produce quality, high environmental standard oil and gas in the UK.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm definitely going to return to some of those issues that you've talked
30:49
SPEAKER_00: about there in a bit.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: But do you think the government is doing enough to frame this debate properly,
30:55
SPEAKER_00: as you said there?
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Could the government be doing more to make this pragmatic case and to stave off some
31:03
SPEAKER_00: of the criticism from both left and right about how
31:07
SPEAKER_00: the government is approaching North Sea Energy?
31:11
SPEAKER_01: I definitely think we could talk more about The jobs question and about the pipeline
31:17
SPEAKER_01: of talent,
31:17
SPEAKER_01: you know, what's the outlook for young people in those parts of the country?
31:21
SPEAKER_01: We want to prepare them for the skills that will be needed for the future.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: But actually,
31:25
SPEAKER_01: a lot of those skills are very similar to the skills that people have in the oil
31:29
SPEAKER_01: and gas industry today.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: If you know how to set up and manage an oil rig,
31:33
SPEAKER_01: for example, a lot of those skills are transferable to offshore wind, for example.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And as you've said in this interview so far,
31:40
SPEAKER_00: your constituency,
31:42
SPEAKER_00: As well as many others is still dealing with the effects of deindustrialization.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: And how do you how do you see the government sort of shift in tone,
31:53
SPEAKER_00: the Burnham government's shift in tone on sort of correcting some of those
32:01
SPEAKER_00: trying
32:01
SPEAKER_00: to resolve some of those issues created by deindustrialization?
32:06
SPEAKER_00: How are those ideas received in a constituency like Cannock Chase?
32:11
SPEAKER_00: And also,
32:11
SPEAKER_00: what would you say to critics of Burnham that this is all just rhetoric and
32:18
SPEAKER_00: and is actually lacking a lot of substance in his government so far?
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say for communities like mine and Can It Chase,
32:26
SPEAKER_01: it really is music to their ears because it shows that we understand the damage
32:31
SPEAKER_01: that decisions that were made in the past have done.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: And actually,
32:34
SPEAKER_01: when Andy Burnham talks about this being a 40-year problem rather
32:39
SPEAKER_01: than just previous Conservative government,
32:41
SPEAKER_01: and we include some of the decisions taken by the previous Labour government in
32:44
SPEAKER_01: that kind of statement of 40 years where we've gone wrong as a country,
32:48
SPEAKER_01: I think it speaks to how people feel like We've had a loss of control over things.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: And this is what drove,
32:55
SPEAKER_01: I think, a lot of the Brexit vote, was people felt like control was slipping away.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: As I said, things that they'd relied on in their community was slipping away.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: And they didn't have the agency or ability to do anything about that.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: But it was kind of decisions that were being made for them in some distant place,
33:14
SPEAKER_01: whether that's Westminster or Brussels or anywhere else.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: And I think I think Andy really gets that and he doesn't just get it from
33:24
SPEAKER_01: a perspective of a nice soundbite that speaks to how people feel.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: He represented and now represents again communities in Wigan that went
33:35
SPEAKER_01: through exactly the same thing that my communities did.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: And so people know that he speaks from a sense,
33:40
SPEAKER_01: like an actual experience in that and a real passion to do something about it.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
33:46
SPEAKER_01: there is this charge coming from the likes of Kemi Badenow
33:49
SPEAKER_01: that Andy's rhetoric is just vibes.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: That isn't what I see at all.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: I see some of the announcements that Andy has already brought forward in
33:57
SPEAKER_01: a short space of time in his first few months as Prime Minister
34:00
SPEAKER_01: that are tackling things like the cost of living,
34:03
SPEAKER_01: but people feel They've been kind of wanting to see that the government's
34:07
SPEAKER_01: on their side and gets the struggles they're going through and is trying
34:10
SPEAKER_01: to do whatever it's in its control to push things in the right direction.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
34:15
SPEAKER_01: the government has only got a limited amount of time until
34:17
SPEAKER_01: the next general election,
34:18
SPEAKER_01: but more importantly,
34:21
SPEAKER_01: The longer we take with things like that,
34:22
SPEAKER_01: the more we're slipping behind international competitors,
34:25
SPEAKER_01: the more that we're losing out on those opportunities for our people.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think Andy's got a real determination to turn some of those things around.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: And that is going down well in communities like mine.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think it's just rhetoric.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: I think he's already showing that there's a lot of substance behind that with more to come.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: And do you think that maybe that substance is still to come or...
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Do you think he's done enough so far to show a move towards realising those quite large goals?
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Or do you think he could have maybe hit the ground running a little bit quicker,
35:01
SPEAKER_00: have a sort of potential to peter out
35:03
SPEAKER_00: if Burnham doesn't make some big decisions soon?
35:08
SPEAKER_01: No,
35:08
SPEAKER_01: I definitely get the sense that there's a lot of momentum behind Andy and the team
35:11
SPEAKER_01: that he's appointed.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: I think,
35:14
SPEAKER_01: you know,
35:15
SPEAKER_01: You can't expect a Prime Minister to come in and be able
35:17
SPEAKER_01: to sort all those things overnight and be able to get a huge amount of money out
35:21
SPEAKER_01: the door overnight.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: I think what's been in his control already, he's making some really important strides on.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the first big opportunity and test that he's got is the budget, inevitably.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: And as MPs, we're all...
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Putting in our submissions at the moment with our sort of like list of asks
35:38
SPEAKER_01: which often are very long but have very relevant constituency reasons why we want
35:44
SPEAKER_01: to see those investments made through the budget.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: And obviously,
35:47
SPEAKER_01: you know, like any Prime Minister, he's not going to be able to satisfy everybody.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to be able to put investment behind everything that he would possibly want to.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: But I think what I'm really encouraged by with Andy is that he's got
35:58
SPEAKER_01: a really strategic view of where we need to go and he understands where we can get
36:03
SPEAKER_01: The most outcome for every pound spent.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: The future of our young people is absolutely one of them.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: There's so many ways that you can save huge amounts of money down the road
36:13
SPEAKER_01: and promote economic growth by investing in young people.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: So I think his focus is right.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: We're all going to be watching eagerly to see what the budget will bring.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's loads of challenges the country faces.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Debate over defence spending is another one, of course.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: But I do think that he's He's got his eye on the ball of what people really want to see.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think where he's had opportunities to set a direction of travel already, he's done that.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
36:40
SPEAKER_01: he's got a few more opportunities through party conference and the budget
36:45
SPEAKER_01: to really set out that storm more and help the public get to know what he's really
36:50
SPEAKER_01: about and what his vision is for Britain.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: And do you think that MPs and party members will be looking
36:59
SPEAKER_00: for Some quite big statements at the party conference or do you think
37:06
SPEAKER_00: that they'll be happy if Burnham continues to sort
37:10
SPEAKER_00: of lay out his long term strategic goals as part of his prime ministership?
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Or do you think that,
37:18
SPEAKER_00: as I said, MPs will be looking for something quite significant to be announced?
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: You never want to have the feeling that the Prime Minister and
37:27
SPEAKER_01: the government are just minding the shop,
37:29
SPEAKER_01: that things are kind of,
37:30
SPEAKER_01: we're coasting because we're quite happy with the way things are.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: I think any government would be in a hurry to want to change things.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: We've obviously got a really clear view of what we want to do.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: And I think Andy's speech will be a big moment.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: I think for me,
37:41
SPEAKER_01: a conference speech is less about specific policy announcements,
37:43
SPEAKER_01: although they're always really welcome, but it's more about
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Setting out to the country where you want to see Britain head,
38:12
SPEAKER_01: like what is the better Britain that we really want to see and that's
38:16
SPEAKER_01: where we're trying to get to.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: I think if you just scatter gun a load of policy announcements without any kind
38:21
SPEAKER_01: of vision that ties it all together,
38:24
SPEAKER_01: You've really come a cropper because people don't know what they're buying into.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: They feel like they're buying into a shopping list rather than a compelling vision
38:32
SPEAKER_01: for how their lives are going to get better.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's what we really want to see.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: I've just got a couple of questions on some more international issues and news.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Andy Burnham's at the UN General Assembly today.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: And from your perspective,
38:47
SPEAKER_00: from your select committee work, from your APPG work, what do you hope?
38:53
SPEAKER_00: What is on his agenda when he's meeting and talking to world leaders?
38:57
SPEAKER_00: What do you think that the UK should really be looking to work on
39:02
SPEAKER_00: with its international partners or any country around the world today?
39:08
SPEAKER_00: What do you think is most important?
39:11
SPEAKER_01: The main thing for me that I would really like to see international cooperation on,
39:14
SPEAKER_01: and I think we've done a good job as a government of starting this off,
39:18
SPEAKER_01: but we definitely need to continue it, is on migration.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: It is an issue which often we think about in our own context in the UK,
39:26
SPEAKER_01: the things like small boats that we need to tackle.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: But actually, it's an international problem, certainly for us in Europe.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think Keir Starmer actually did a really good job on the international stage
39:37
SPEAKER_01: of bringing people together and trying to get coordinated action on things.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Can do that as well.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: So I'd like to see him using that opportunity to speak about migration
39:47
SPEAKER_01: and how we kind of tackle that globally.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: And we know with climate change marching on,
39:52
SPEAKER_01: that is going to become a bigger and bigger issue for the planet as a whole,
39:56
SPEAKER_01: people moving around.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's something that is brought up all the time in my constituency.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think we often see it.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of other debates in a very one dimensional way.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: And people can often stereotype each other in terms of how they expect people
40:12
SPEAKER_01: to respond to that or deal with that.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: Whereas, again, I think there's so much nuance in that.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: And I like to get into that detail.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: So I hope Andy's going to be doing that on the international level.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, climate change is clearly something that we continue to talk about internationally.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: But also,
40:28
SPEAKER_01: obviously,
40:29
SPEAKER_01: we've got the bigger context around The tariffs from America and a real sort
40:34
SPEAKER_01: of shrinking back from free trade into more sort of protectionist elements.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: I think, I mean, I'm not an expert in international trade.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: I personally think backing our industries is not a bad thing.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad that we're starting to see the European Union changing its tune on kind
40:49
SPEAKER_01: of state aid and support for things like steel.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: But Andy is absolutely right to challenge the EU on that, to say, your battle is not with us.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: You need to include us in your plans to protect European industries because
41:02
SPEAKER_01: although we're not part of the EU anymore,
41:04
SPEAKER_01: we're a really important trading partner for each other and we need to make sure
41:08
SPEAKER_01: that British industry isn't caught up as a collateral damage of what
41:11
SPEAKER_01: the EU is doing.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: So again,
41:13
SPEAKER_01: I think that conversation around where we go as a planet with trade is
41:19
SPEAKER_01: a really important one.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: I think that Some of that action from the likes of America has been really damaging
41:26
SPEAKER_01: to growth globally.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: Every country is dealing with that kind of sluggish global economy now and
41:32
SPEAKER_01: the consequences of that.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, it means less money for us to do the things that we want to do.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Back home,
41:37
SPEAKER_01: I always bring it back to my own constituency and things that I want to see
41:41
SPEAKER_01: in my community.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: If international trade is restricted,
41:45
SPEAKER_01: it just means that everybody's poorer at the end of the day.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: What's always part of the agenda at international events is obviously the situation
41:54
SPEAKER_01: in Israel and Palestine as well,
41:56
SPEAKER_01: which is always a difficult thing to approach because there's so many strong views
42:01
SPEAKER_01: on each side and people feel Very angry and passionate about it.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: But I'm just I'm glad that the government is taking a really strong stand
42:09
SPEAKER_01: on settlements, illegal settlements in the West Bank.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: That's something that I've always found an outrage.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: It's clearly an affront to international law.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: So I hope that Andy will be taking the opportunity to talk to other countries about
42:22
SPEAKER_01: the action that British government is taking alongside many other countries
42:26
SPEAKER_01: in Europe.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
42:28
SPEAKER_01: to put pressure on Israel to realise that it's in their interest to have
42:32
SPEAKER_01: a sustainable two-state solution and to try and get other countries around the world
42:38
SPEAKER_01: to,
42:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
42:39
SPEAKER_01: appreciate that our position is an effort towards that,
42:42
SPEAKER_01: not an effort to,
42:43
SPEAKER_01: you know,
42:44
SPEAKER_01: kind of interfere in Israel's affairs,
42:47
SPEAKER_01: but actually to try and see a peaceful future between Israel Israelis
42:52
SPEAKER_01: and Palestinians, which we've wanted to see for decades.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: And it feels like we're further away from that than we've ever been at the moment.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you very much.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: Looking at the time, I think I have to leave it there.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: But it's an absolute pleasure to talk to you.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: And thank you very much for your answers.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: It's been really nice to talk.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: No, thank you for the opportunity.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: It was likewise really, great for me to have a chat to you as well.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Order, Order.