Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SQUATTER-NIGHTMARE-TURNS-MURDER: Woman Bludgeoned DEAD, Stuffed in Duffle
Transcript
- 0:05Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a tennis star
- 0:17Speaker 1: a beautiful mother end up dead stuffed in a Duffel bag?
- 0:27Speaker 1: I mean you see, Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank
- 0:29Speaker 1: you for being with us here at crime Stories and
- 0:32Speaker 1: on Serious xem one eleven. First of all, take a
- 0:35Speaker 1: listen to this.
- 0:36Speaker 2: Michael Medvedev takes a closer look at the Duffel bag
- 0:39Speaker 2: he discovered in a closet. He notices the bag is
- 0:42Speaker 2: an odd shape and moving a coat out of the way,
- 0:44Speaker 2: Medvedev sees a foot. He calls the fire department and
- 0:47Speaker 2: they arrive about the same time as police. They determine
- 0:50Speaker 2: the dead body in the bag is Nadya Vitel. The
- 0:53Speaker 2: medical examiner wants to save as much evidence as possible,
- 0:56Speaker 2: so they leave the body in the Duffel bag for
- 0:58Speaker 2: transport to the medical examiner's office. Removing the bag reveals
- 1:01Speaker 2: a large bloodstain.
- 1:03Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at crimeonline dot com. We take
- 1:08Speaker 1: a close look at a Duffel bag inside of a
- 1:11Speaker 1: closet and realize something is horribly wrong. Again, this is
- 1:17Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. How did a
- 1:20Speaker 1: tennis star end up stuffed in a duffel bag with
- 1:24Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what
- 1:27Speaker 1: we know right now, joining me, investigative reporter from CBS
- 1:31Speaker 1: twenty one, Hallie Jacobs, Hollie, it's hard to believe that
- 1:36Speaker 1: this has happened to this really glamorous tennis star mom
- 1:42Speaker 1: and nobody knew a thing. Where did this happen? Was
- 1:46Speaker 1: in a private home? Was it in the suburbs rural
- 1:49Speaker 1: area of what?
- 1:50Speaker 3: So?
- 1:50Speaker 4: It actually took place in Manhattan, New York City, and
- 1:53Speaker 4: it was in her apartment building, So a big apartment building.
- 1:56Speaker 4: Picture that and around the nineteenth floor.
- 1:58Speaker 1: You know, that's even more of a conundrum for me
- 2:02Speaker 1: to Banora via Alona, high profile criminal defense attorney in
- 2:07Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, former prosecutor at Vialona Law dot Com. You'd think,
- 2:14Speaker 1: Whitney Banana, that someone on the other side of that
- 2:17Speaker 1: wall heard something. I mean, the woman, I'm not sure
- 2:23Speaker 1: she's been dismembered or just folded up contorted into a
- 2:27Speaker 1: duffel bag. I mean, it's kind of hard to look
- 2:29Speaker 1: at her with that beautiful smile, and no she ends
- 2:32Speaker 1: up contorted in a duffel bag. But nobody on the
- 2:34Speaker 1: other side of that wall heard a thing exactly, Nancy.
- 2:38Speaker 3: This is so disturbing because you have to think she
- 2:41Speaker 3: was actually killed, she was actually beaten.
- 2:44Speaker 1: So I'm waiting to see what the autopsy results are.
- 2:47Speaker 3: But you know that her manner death was as a
- 2:50Speaker 3: result of a homicide. It was as a result of
- 2:53Speaker 3: back answer of another So no nine to one one call.
- 2:56Speaker 3: Nobody heard anything, nothing from the neighbors, No one saw
- 3:00Speaker 3: anything like a body wasn't discovered for days, Nancy, what
- 3:03Speaker 3: are we doing?
- 3:03Speaker 5: This is New York.
- 3:04Speaker 1: City, the city that never sleeps well. Put a joining
- 3:08Speaker 1: me is IRV Brandt, guys former US Marshall, author of
- 3:12Speaker 1: Flying Solo, Top of the World on Amazon. You can
- 3:15Speaker 1: find them at Irvbrandt dot com. He's reading a series
- 3:18Speaker 1: of books. Hey, IRV, you have investigated and solved so
- 3:22Speaker 1: many cases literally around the world, having worked with DOJ
- 3:28Speaker 1: and many many other capacities. IRV, this woman did everything right.
- 3:34Speaker 1: She ate correctly, she exercised, she was devoted to her son.
- 3:39Speaker 1: You know those people that never smoke and then suddenly
- 3:43Speaker 1: they die of lung cancer. It's like this, IRV. She
- 3:47Speaker 1: did everything right. I mean, this is one of the
- 3:50Speaker 1: most physically active victims I've ever seen, and yet crime
- 3:57Speaker 1: managed to cut her life short. Is that like rub
- 4:01Speaker 1: you wrong in some way? IRV.
- 4:02Speaker 6: Of course she does, Nancy.
- 4:04Speaker 5: I mean, it's why every police officer gets into the
- 4:07Speaker 5: field that they work. Bad things happen to good people sometimes.
- 4:13Speaker 1: You know what, I don't like the way you put that.
- 4:16Speaker 1: You're kind of like laid back about it. Bad things
- 4:19Speaker 1: happen to good people. Well, you know what, not on
- 4:21Speaker 1: my watch, But that is what happened to Nadia Vittel. Guys,
- 4:26Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to what her
- 4:29Speaker 1: son says.
- 4:30Speaker 7: She got on a plane and flew from one of
- 4:32Speaker 7: the biggest cities in the world buy herself with some
- 4:36Speaker 7: money and a few tennis rackets to Stillwater, Oklahoma. She
- 4:43Speaker 7: played tennis there, she studied it. It took her three
- 4:47Speaker 7: years to finally figure out what the Greek letters on
- 4:49Speaker 7: some of the houses.
- 4:50Speaker 6: Now it all made.
- 4:52Speaker 5: No sense to her.
- 4:54Speaker 1: Hallie Jacobs joining me CBS twenty one News. Hallie, tell
- 4:58Speaker 1: me about this woman. I mean, she flies one of
- 5:02Speaker 1: the biggest cities in the world alone with money and
- 5:05Speaker 1: a couple of tennis rackets to steal Water, Oklahoma to
- 5:09Speaker 1: play college tennis.
- 5:12Speaker 4: Right yes, yes she does. And you know, it's really
- 5:15Speaker 4: great to see exactly what she does with it. She
- 5:17Speaker 4: makes a terrific career out of it. She really helps
- 5:19Speaker 4: her son, you know, her son. When he was speaking,
- 5:22Speaker 4: he was talking about how much she supported him and
- 5:25Speaker 4: his streams and it was just a really incredible to see.
- 5:28Speaker 4: So it's sad to see exactly what's happened to her. Now, guys,
- 5:31Speaker 4: I want.
- 5:31Speaker 1: To find out more about this tennis star mom who
- 5:37Speaker 1: ends up folded up in a Duffel bag and stuffed
- 5:43Speaker 1: in a closet. Did you hear what was said at
- 5:47Speaker 1: the very beginning when they removed the Duffel bag there
- 5:51Speaker 1: was a big bloodstain left. That is what has happened
- 5:58Speaker 1: to this devoted mother. She devoted herself to two things,
- 6:03Speaker 1: tennis and her son working, working her fingers to the
- 6:09Speaker 1: bone to support her son and make everything wonderful for him.
- 6:16Speaker 1: That's who she is, correction, that's who she was. Listen
- 6:22Speaker 1: to more from her son Michael.
- 6:25Speaker 7: Mama grew up an only child in Moscow with Anya
- 6:28Speaker 7: and Ghiera, her parents.
- 6:30Speaker 6: She grew up playing tennis from the day she was born.
- 6:33Speaker 6: She never sang, never performed.
- 6:37Speaker 7: She was the furthest someone can get from being theatrical.
- 6:41Speaker 6: I remember she showed me a gold medal, and she
- 6:43Speaker 6: had earned in high school back in Russia, a student
- 6:46Speaker 6: medal of.
- 6:46Speaker 7: Honor for being top in her class. That medal, for
- 6:50Speaker 7: some reason, has always stuck with me. It made me
- 6:53Speaker 7: feel proud to be your son, and I wanted to
- 6:56Speaker 7: earn my own got gold medals to live out to her.
- 7:00Speaker 1: Doctor Gary Brocato, clinical psychologist and author of The New Evil,
- 7:06Speaker 1: Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent crime. Boy, do we
- 7:12Speaker 1: need a shrink? Did you hear what her son said?
- 7:16Speaker 1: This woman goes all by herself as a teen girl
- 7:22Speaker 1: with a couple of tennis rackets and flies across the
- 7:25Speaker 1: world to become a tennis star at college in Oklahoma.
- 7:31Speaker 1: She works her fingers to the bone to become a star,
- 7:36Speaker 1: and then spends that success to an incredible sports related
- 7:42Speaker 1: PR career, all the while devoted to bringing up her son, Michael.
- 7:50Speaker 1: Did you hear what he said about the gold medal?
- 7:54Speaker 1: How she showed him the gold medal. That was something
- 7:59Speaker 1: she wanted to share. She was proud of it, so
- 8:03Speaker 1: proud she showed it to her son. That just breaks
- 8:07Speaker 1: my heart. Doctor Ricardo.
- 8:09Speaker 6: Absolutely.
- 8:11Speaker 8: You know, it's interesting. You know sometimes when we think
- 8:14Speaker 8: about cases like this, we really see the division between
- 8:18Speaker 8: people who come from good backgrounds, who are people who
- 8:22Speaker 8: have people who love them and care about them, and
- 8:24Speaker 8: people who've had a rough road in life who feel
- 8:27Speaker 8: a kind of entitlement to take from the world. And
- 8:31Speaker 8: you get both of them, I think kind of exemplified
- 8:34Speaker 8: in this case.
- 8:35Speaker 1: I'm just just thinking about her and the significance of
- 8:39Speaker 1: showing that metal. You know, everyone tries to look good
- 8:45Speaker 1: in the eyes of their children, right you want them
- 8:49Speaker 1: to love you and be proud of you. But I'm
- 8:52Speaker 1: just thinking about the poignant moment that Nadia takes out
- 8:58Speaker 1: her gold medal that she wants and I think they
- 9:00Speaker 1: said in high school to show him and now this
- 9:07Speaker 1: is just there's something so poignant about that, Doctor Gary Briccado,
- 9:12Speaker 1: What is it?
- 9:13Speaker 8: Well, because I think a metal is an emblem of
- 9:17Speaker 8: what you get when you've worked really hard towards something
- 9:20Speaker 8: and you're disciplined and you know you have a goal
- 9:23Speaker 8: in mind. It's the complete opposite by the kind of
- 9:26Speaker 8: life that we would envision in the kind of people
- 9:28Speaker 8: who would have done something like this to this woman,
- 9:31Speaker 8: and then you think to yourself, how sad it is that, randomly,
- 9:35Speaker 8: because of someone just in the wrong place at the
- 9:37Speaker 8: wrong time, all of those things that you did sort
- 9:40Speaker 8: of came to an abrupt end unfairly.
- 9:42Speaker 1: Well, I disagree with you, doctor Gary Bricado, no offense,
- 9:47Speaker 1: because I'm certainly no strength. But I hardly think that
- 9:52Speaker 1: being in her own mother's apartment is being in the
- 9:57Speaker 1: wrong place. She was in the right place. Somebody else
- 10:02Speaker 1: was in the wrong place. It's so rare that I
- 10:05Speaker 1: actually get to disagree with you. Let me just enjoy
- 10:07Speaker 1: the moment, just for one moment.
- 10:09Speaker 5: I think that's important.
- 10:11Speaker 1: Her brandt another thing, and I'm getting to the Duffel
- 10:15Speaker 1: bag and all that. But in our line of business crime,
- 10:20Speaker 1: do you ever just get weary with really wonderful people
- 10:27Speaker 1: becoming crime victims. It's not like this woman was out
- 10:31Speaker 1: selling crack on the corner. She's not the mastermind of
- 10:35Speaker 1: a criminal enterprise. She's not a bad person that is
- 10:40Speaker 1: mean to people, That is a bully that takes advantage
- 10:43Speaker 1: of other people and praise upon people weaker than her
- 10:47Speaker 1: or less talented than her. That's not who. She's a hardworking,
- 10:52Speaker 1: loving mom. Now why the hey does somebody like her?
- 10:57Speaker 1: Why does she have to end up in a duffel
- 10:59Speaker 1: back that ever bothers.
- 11:02Speaker 5: You bothers me a lot, Nancy. And these are the
- 11:06Speaker 5: type of cases. They're just tragic and they're hard to investigate.
- 11:10Speaker 5: It wears on you for years and years and years
- 11:14Speaker 5: of conducting investigations, going to crime scenes, talking to the
- 11:19Speaker 5: victims family. These type of cases where the person you
- 11:24Speaker 5: know was doing the right thing, like you said, was
- 11:28Speaker 5: in the right place, wasn't in the wrong place at
- 11:31Speaker 5: the wrong time. They were in the right place there
- 11:34Speaker 5: where they were supposed to be doing the things that
- 11:36Speaker 5: they were supposed to do, and then this happens anyway,
- 11:41Speaker 5: It cares at your soul, Nancy. It's hard. It's hard
- 11:46Speaker 5: even for an investigator who's been doing it for years
- 11:49Speaker 5: and years and years. It's hard to do. It's hard
- 11:52Speaker 5: to conduct an interview with the victims family without yourself
- 11:58Speaker 5: getting choked up and getting emotional when you know that
- 12:01Speaker 5: you can't because you have to be a professional at
- 12:04Speaker 5: all times, and you can't go off and let yourself
- 12:09Speaker 5: be full of rage and you know, let your emotions
- 12:13Speaker 5: take over. But absolutely it's hard.
- 12:16Speaker 9: Nancy.
- 12:29Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace, a beautiful tennis star, a
- 12:35Speaker 1: mother folded up, contorted, smashed into a Duffel bag. Why
- 12:42Speaker 1: what more do we know about Nania Vittel and her
- 12:46Speaker 1: movements the day she was murdered? Listen?
- 12:49Speaker 10: Nadia Vitael learned to play tennis growing up as an
- 12:52Speaker 10: only child. She went on to become a tennis star
- 12:55Speaker 10: in college and after graduation, became a skilled sports marketing
- 13:00Speaker 10: specialist traveling the world. Vittel recently returned to New York
- 13:03Speaker 10: from Spain to prepare her late mother's apartment for a
- 13:07Speaker 10: friend to have a place to stay in the city.
- 13:09Speaker 1: Now, I know what doctor Gary Bricato was saying earlier
- 13:12Speaker 1: about being in the wrong place at the wrong time,
- 13:14Speaker 1: and I called him on it. But that's where she was.
- 13:17Speaker 1: Let's focus in on the day that she goes missing.
- 13:23Speaker 1: I believe the day she was murdered. Why was she
- 13:26Speaker 1: there at that moment? Listen.
- 13:28Speaker 2: Naja Vittel spends a couple of days moving personal items
- 13:32Speaker 2: into an apartment in Manhattan's kIPS Bay, and she's captured
- 13:35Speaker 2: on security cameras going in and out several times. On
- 13:37Speaker 2: March tenth, Vitel spends two days on Long Island, then
- 13:40Speaker 2: on March twelfth, heads back to the Kiffs Bay apartment.
- 13:43Speaker 2: Vittel's son, Michael Medvedev, talked with her that Tuesday, but
- 13:47Speaker 2: after the twelfth she has an answering calls or returning texts.
- 13:50Speaker 2: After two days of no contact, Medvedev called police to
- 13:53Speaker 2: do a welfare check on his mother. Waiting for the police,
- 13:56Speaker 2: Medvedev convinces the building super to let him into the apartment.
- 14:00Speaker 2: Walking through the apartment, nothing seems amiss, except his mother's
- 14:04Speaker 2: not in the apartment. As they're walking out, Medvedev notices
- 14:08Speaker 2: an unfamiliar Duffel bag in the closet.
- 14:10Speaker 1: Back too, Hallie Jacobs joining us reporter CBS twenty one News,
- 14:14Speaker 1: Halle again, thank you for being with us. So did
- 14:17Speaker 1: the son know for sure his mother was at her
- 14:22Speaker 1: mother's apartment? Is that why he went there? Did he
- 14:25Speaker 1: know she had been there?
- 14:27Speaker 4: Yes, I mean she was supposed to be there for
- 14:28Speaker 4: the past couple of days getting the apartment ready. Now
- 14:31Speaker 4: it had been vacant for months, So she went in
- 14:34Speaker 4: there expecting to be the only person there, and now
- 14:37Speaker 4: he finds her, possibly in a Duffel bag. And he
- 14:41Speaker 4: didn't even know what he was seeing at first. I
- 14:43Speaker 4: mean the superintendent of the building said that he pointed
- 14:47Speaker 4: to the closet and he believed that there was a
- 14:49Speaker 4: body in the bag, and all the clothes in the
- 14:51Speaker 4: closet were down, so you couldn't even really see the bag.
- 14:54Speaker 4: You can only see it partially a bit, and the
- 14:57Speaker 4: son just knew that it needed to be So.
- 15:00Speaker 1: Let me understand, Halle Jacobs. The clothes have been torn
- 15:03Speaker 1: down off the clothes racks and they were on top
- 15:06Speaker 1: of the duffel.
- 15:07Speaker 4: Yes, so the Duffel bag was only being shown partially.
- 15:09Speaker 1: Oh my stars, Doctor Gary Briccado, I need to shrink
- 15:13Speaker 1: now more than ever a Bricado clinical psychologist and author,
- 15:17Speaker 1: to think that your own son is the one to
- 15:21Speaker 1: find your body. I mean, how much more anguish can
- 15:26Speaker 1: you heat on someone? Number One, you lose your mother,
- 15:30Speaker 1: and then you find out she's murdered, then you find
- 15:33Speaker 1: out she's stuffed in a Duffel bag, and then you're
- 15:37Speaker 1: the one that finds your dead mom.
- 15:41Speaker 8: There's no question from people I've worked with who have
- 15:46Speaker 8: discovered bodies or have been at crime scenes that it
- 15:50Speaker 8: leads to years of personal psychological anguish. Emotional anguish. Sometimes
- 15:57Speaker 8: for the perpetrator of the crime, it's part of the
- 15:59Speaker 8: hall to create a situation where somebody is going to
- 16:03Speaker 8: chance upon a loved one. I think in this case,
- 16:05Speaker 8: it was more a reflection of the kind of chaos
- 16:08Speaker 8: and impulsivity of the scene, and it just happened to
- 16:12Speaker 8: be that there wasn't very much care taken about how
- 16:15Speaker 8: the individual was going to be found by anybody.
- 16:17Speaker 1: You know another thing about that. Let me go to you,
- 16:19Speaker 1: Bernardo vi Alona, high profile lawyer in this jurisdiction at
- 16:24Speaker 1: Violona Law dot com. Bernardo, you've dealt with a lot
- 16:27Speaker 1: of crime victims, as have I, and speaking as a
- 16:31Speaker 1: crime victim, I have relived and dreamed a million times
- 16:37Speaker 1: the last time I saw my fiance before he was murdered,
- 16:41Speaker 1: and I can only imagine what it would be like
- 16:46Speaker 1: to find his murdered body. Victims' families don't get over
- 16:53Speaker 1: that for the rest of their lives, and the a
- 16:57Speaker 1: holes who murdered her, I'm sure they're like animals. They
- 17:02Speaker 1: have no concern for the family of the victim, the victim,
- 17:08Speaker 1: whoever finds the victim. I mean, how do you do it?
- 17:13Speaker 1: As a defense lawyer and former prosecutor. How do you
- 17:18Speaker 1: represent people that have no regard for anybody else but themselves.
- 17:25Speaker 1: Number one, don't be alone in a room with them. Okay,
- 17:27Speaker 1: let's start with that. Go ahead, and.
- 17:30Speaker 3: Nancy, just to put everything in perspective, I used to
- 17:34Speaker 3: be a homicide prosecutor for ten years, so I was
- 17:37Speaker 3: used to dealing with these homicide investigations, dealing with these
- 17:40Speaker 3: family members, dealing with these witnesses. And you're right, this
- 17:44Speaker 3: son will never forget that moment and will constantly question
- 17:48Speaker 3: themselves what if I accompanied her, what if I was
- 17:51Speaker 3: with her? What if I called the day before or
- 17:53Speaker 3: even two days prior, could I have stopped this from happening.
- 17:57Speaker 3: So when it comes exactly representing individuals that are accused
- 18:01Speaker 3: of committing a homicide.
- 18:03Speaker 1: Look, stick to the facts, stick to the law.
- 18:05Speaker 3: Am I providing effective assistance of counsel to these people
- 18:09Speaker 3: and advocating for them for in their best interest. But
- 18:12Speaker 3: it is very difficult prosecutor side and also the defense side,
- 18:16Speaker 3: because we're still human and we also still feel for
- 18:19Speaker 3: these victims who have lost their lives at the hands
- 18:21Speaker 3: of another person.
- 18:22Speaker 1: Man that son to find his own mother. Okay, you
- 18:25Speaker 1: know what, I can talk about that all day, but
- 18:26Speaker 1: I want to get down to the facts. Listen to
- 18:28Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Online. The investigation into the death of
- 18:32Speaker 1: Naja Vitel starts with her injuries. Betel suffered blunt forced
- 18:36Speaker 1: trauma to the head, multiple facial fractures, of brain bleed,
- 18:39Speaker 1: and two broken ribs. From there, investigators move on to
- 18:43Speaker 1: the surveillance cameras in the building her body is found
- 18:45Speaker 1: on Thursday, March fourteenth. Investigators found surveillance video showing Ftel
- 18:50Speaker 1: bringing her personal items into the building on the tenth.
- 18:52Speaker 1: Vitel leaves the building just after eleven am on March tenth. Okay,
- 18:56Speaker 1: let me understand how this happens. Investigators find surveills video
- 19:00Speaker 1: showing her bringing items into the home. Remember, her mother
- 19:05Speaker 1: had passed away, and so she was cleaning out the
- 19:08Speaker 1: apartment and bringing other things into the apartment. In New York,
- 19:13Speaker 1: apartments kind of run in the family. If they're rent controlled,
- 19:17Speaker 1: the next person to live in the apartment can only
- 19:21Speaker 1: be a family member or else it goes on the market.
- 19:25Speaker 1: That's the way it works. So let's hear more. What
- 19:29Speaker 1: else was happening while this beautiful young mom. Nadia is
- 19:34Speaker 1: moving things in and out of her mom's apartment. Listen
- 19:39Speaker 1: to Rachel Bonia Crime Online.
- 19:41Speaker 11: At the same time, Bettel is bringing items into the apartment.
- 19:45Speaker 11: Haley Tahna and Kensley Austin are seen trying to enter
- 19:48Speaker 11: the building around two pm on the tenth. One hour
- 19:51Speaker 11: later to Hanna and Austin are on camera in the
- 19:54Speaker 11: building and seen on elevator surveillance camera entering Nadia Hottel's apartment. Okay,
- 20:00Speaker 11: a minute, who are they? Who are they, Hallie Jacobs,
- 20:06Speaker 11: you're joining us CBS twenty one. Who were they in
- 20:10Speaker 11: relation to her son Michael or to her Nadia? They're nobody.
- 20:15Speaker 1: They're squatters. Isn't that true?
- 20:17Speaker 6: That is correct?
- 20:18Speaker 4: Sources say they were squatters.
- 20:20Speaker 1: Hallie Jacobs, What do you mean by squatters?
- 20:23Speaker 4: So they were staying there when they weren't supposed to
- 20:26Speaker 4: be there. They went into the apartment, were staying there
- 20:28Speaker 4: for who knows how long at this point, and apparently
- 20:31Speaker 4: they were away while Nadia was moving into the apartment herself,
- 20:35Speaker 4: and then they came back and we know what happens.
- 20:38Speaker 1: So Nadia had no idea that squatters were living there.
- 20:41Speaker 1: She thought she was just moving things in and out
- 20:43Speaker 1: of the apartment.
- 20:44Speaker 4: No idea right exactly, And apparently the superintendent says that
- 20:48Speaker 4: he had no idea that anybody was living in that
- 20:51Speaker 4: apartment as well.
- 20:52Speaker 1: So squatters sneaking around trying to live in her mom's apartment.
- 20:59Speaker 1: We see him on video going in the apartment. What
- 21:03Speaker 1: happens next? Joining me right now a renowned medical examiner,
- 21:08Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns, the chief medical examiner and Tarrett County.
- 21:12Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth lecturer at University Texas Christian University Medical School.
- 21:18Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us fort Worth.
- 21:21Speaker 1: Never lack of business there for you anyway. Sad to
- 21:25Speaker 1: report dot. The Crowns explain to me what happened to
- 21:29Speaker 1: this woman.
- 21:30Speaker 12: So from the reports, it appears that she had had
- 21:32Speaker 12: blunt force injuries predominantly of the face and head. So
- 21:36Speaker 12: they probably based on the facial fractures the bleeding of
- 21:40Speaker 12: the brain, they probably used a hard object to hit
- 21:43Speaker 12: her in the head with multiple times which resulted in injuries,
- 21:48Speaker 12: the facial fractures, and then the hemorrhage of the brain.
- 21:51Speaker 12: Once the brain starts hemorrhaging or it gets contusions, you
- 21:55Speaker 12: pretty much will die quite rapidly after that, you know, Doctor.
- 21:59Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, have you ever heard of the Farmer's Almanac? Okay,
- 22:03Speaker 1: have you ever read one?
- 22:04Speaker 3: No?
- 22:04Speaker 1: I didn't think so, or you would know exactly how
- 22:07Speaker 1: much you sound like you're just reading the Farmer's at
- 22:09Speaker 1: Almanac and the crop report for next year. We are
- 22:13Speaker 1: talking about a mother who is bludgeon debt. Her son
- 22:17Speaker 1: finds her shoved into a duffel bag, and Hallie Jacobs
- 22:22Speaker 1: joining us CBS twenty one. Didn't he see a foot?
- 22:26Speaker 1: Was a foot protruding? As far as I'm aware, he
- 22:29Speaker 1: just saw the duffel bag. I've heard reports that he
- 22:33Speaker 1: actually sees a foot. I don't know if he realized
- 22:37Speaker 1: that was his mother's foot. But Doctor Kendall Crowns, could
- 22:41Speaker 1: we just slow it down a little bit. I'm just
- 22:45Speaker 1: a JD. You're the MD. There's so much to take in,
- 22:49Speaker 1: doctor Kendall crown So let me just start at the beginning.
- 22:53Speaker 1: Let me get my mind off of the mom's foot
- 22:55Speaker 1: sticking out of the duffel bag. According to some reports,
- 22:58Speaker 1: I've got that not what do you suffered? Blood forced
- 23:01Speaker 1: trauma to the head, multiple facial fractures, a brain bleed,
- 23:08Speaker 1: two broken ribs, that's a lot. Then somehow she's contorted
- 23:16Speaker 1: to fit into a Duffel bag. Let's start with bleeding
- 23:22Speaker 1: to the brain. How does that happen and what is
- 23:26Speaker 1: the result?
- 23:26Speaker 6: So how that happens is when you have blunt trauma
- 23:30Speaker 6: to the head.
- 23:30Speaker 12: Your brain has small vessels that come out of the
- 23:34Speaker 12: top of it that attached to the dua which is
- 23:37Speaker 12: aligning on top of the brain. When you get hit,
- 23:40Speaker 12: these vessels tear and they rupture and that starts causing
- 23:44Speaker 12: bleeding of the brain parencoma. That then results swelling of
- 23:48Speaker 12: the brain that compromises the brain's ability to do with job.
- 23:51Speaker 1: Bleeding to the brain in itself can cause death.
- 23:55Speaker 12: How So, blood is occupies the space. Your skull is
- 23:59Speaker 12: only so big in the brain doesn't have much room
- 24:03Speaker 12: in there. So once blood starts filling that space, you
- 24:06Speaker 12: can compress the brain and that can result in brain
- 24:10Speaker 12: the brain malfunctioning. Also the brain the blood itself is
- 24:14Speaker 12: an irritant to the brain, which results in an inflammatory
- 24:17Speaker 12: response that can also cause disruption of function of the brain.
- 24:21Speaker 12: So there's a number of ways the blood can affect
- 24:24Speaker 12: your brain's function.
- 24:25Speaker 1: So we've got brain blade, two broken rims. Let's talk
- 24:29Speaker 1: about multiple facial fractures. What does that mean? The orbital bones,
- 24:35Speaker 1: the jaw.
- 24:36Speaker 12: What the facial fractures that's basically the front of your face.
- 24:40Speaker 12: It can be orbital bones, nose, the cheekbones are also
- 24:44Speaker 12: known as the zygomatic arches, the upper jaw, maxillary all
- 24:49Speaker 12: that is considered facial bones. So any strikes to these
- 24:53Speaker 12: areas cause fractures the facial bones. Usually a fist isn't
- 24:58Speaker 12: going to be able to break like your her cheeks
- 25:01Speaker 12: so well, unless you're very strong. So often we see
- 25:04Speaker 12: injuries like that they've used some sort of object to
- 25:07Speaker 12: beat the person with.
- 25:08Speaker 1: That was my very next question. Could these injuries have
- 25:11Speaker 1: been affected by fists alone or do you think an object,
- 25:15Speaker 1: a blunt object was used.
- 25:17Speaker 12: I would guess more likely than not an object. But
- 25:20Speaker 12: if they get her down and then they're pounding on
- 25:23Speaker 12: her face directly on the ground, they can get more
- 25:25Speaker 12: forced that way. So again it just depends on how
- 25:28Speaker 12: our body was, but usually with facial fractures, you're dealing
- 25:31Speaker 12: more with an object.
- 25:33Speaker 1: Joining me is doctor Kendall, Crown's chief medical examiner in
- 25:37Speaker 1: Fort work. That's Teran County again. Doctor, thank you for
- 25:40Speaker 1: being with us. So I believe we've established that she
- 25:43Speaker 1: was beaten with an object. Most likely she has bleeding
- 25:48Speaker 1: to the brain. She has multiple fractures to the delicate
- 25:52Speaker 1: bones in her face. She has two broken ribs. Now,
- 25:57Speaker 1: I believe that broken ribs are caused by direct punches
- 26:01Speaker 1: or kicks.
- 26:02Speaker 6: What do you think that would be a safe assessment.
- 26:05Speaker 12: Usually broken ribs are from direct punches to the chest
- 26:08Speaker 12: or kicks for that matter, But that's occasionally you can
- 26:12Speaker 12: get them from falling onto an object like a desk
- 26:14Speaker 12: or something of those natures. But in a blunt force
- 26:17Speaker 12: injury situation, it's someone punching you in the chest or
- 26:20Speaker 12: kicking you.
- 26:21Speaker 1: I'm thinking she was already down and they were kicking her,
- 26:25Speaker 1: kicking her mercilessly, I might add, because she happens to
- 26:29Speaker 1: walk in on them while they're squatting in her mother's
- 26:33Speaker 1: home unbeknownst to her. What would have been her actual
- 26:38Speaker 1: cood When we say blunt force trauma? What does she
- 26:42Speaker 1: bleed to death? Does she have a heart attack? Does
- 26:47Speaker 1: the blow itself costs her brain to stop working?
- 26:50Speaker 6: What do we know so it can be a number
- 26:52Speaker 6: of things.
- 26:53Speaker 12: The fractures of the ribs can cause difficulty breathing, but
- 26:58Speaker 12: mainly the blunt trauma to the it's going to cause
- 27:00Speaker 12: the bleeding of the brain, which causes swelling of the brain,
- 27:03Speaker 12: which causes the brain to no longer function properly because
- 27:06Speaker 12: it starts pushing on the structures that control your breathing
- 27:09Speaker 12: and respiratory or your resptory rate and your heart rate.
- 27:13Speaker 12: So it's the damage to the brain and the bleeding
- 27:15Speaker 12: of the brain that's causing death.
- 27:17Speaker 1: Another surefire clue out to Hallie Jacobs CBS twenty one
- 27:23Speaker 1: is the puppy. She had a little dog that her
- 27:27Speaker 1: son describes as her best friend, her man, the only
- 27:31Speaker 1: man she needed. This puppy gave her all the love
- 27:35Speaker 1: she needed to get through difficult things. And more importantly,
- 27:40Speaker 1: her dog had urinated all over the floor because it
- 27:46Speaker 1: was unaccompanied. Was the dog left in the apartment?
- 27:51Speaker 4: Hallie, Yes, so source of say that the dog was
- 27:54Speaker 4: left in the apartment. We don't really know exactly for
- 27:57Speaker 4: how long, but until her body was found, isn't it true?
- 28:00Speaker 1: Hallie Jacob said. There was also there were also many
- 28:04Speaker 1: signs of a struggle inside the apartment.
- 28:07Speaker 4: From what officials can say on what they saw, I
- 28:10Speaker 4: would guess, so somebody was talking about how officials say
- 28:14Speaker 4: that her head might have been smacked against a wall
- 28:17Speaker 4: as well, So definitely signs of a struggle, I would say.
- 28:20Speaker 1: So the fire department is called and they open the
- 28:24Speaker 1: duffel bag and they find this mom two, Doctor Kendall crowns,
- 28:29Speaker 1: how difficult is it to contort a body to stuff
- 28:34Speaker 1: into a duffel bag?
- 28:35Speaker 12: So, depending on the size of the individual, if you
- 28:40Speaker 12: push them into the duffel bag before rigamortis sets iner
- 28:43Speaker 12: the body stiffening, it's actually not all that hard to
- 28:46Speaker 12: shove them into a bag and then bend their body
- 28:49Speaker 12: into a ball and then close it on.
- 28:51Speaker 1: How about if rigamortis has already set in.
- 28:54Speaker 12: What about that once rigor sets in, it actually becomes
- 28:58Speaker 12: more difficult because the body is stiffened, and then it's
- 29:01Speaker 12: harder to contort them into a small object. But you
- 29:05Speaker 12: can break the rigor if you force the extremity or
- 29:08Speaker 12: whatever is stiffened up. That once the rigger is broken,
- 29:11Speaker 12: then the body becomes flashed again or floppy, and then
- 29:14Speaker 12: you can force them into a small object.
- 29:17Speaker 1: How do we know who did this? Well, here's a
- 29:20Speaker 1: good clue. Two people begin immediately using her bank and
- 29:25Speaker 1: credit cards. Okay, take a listen to Dave matt Crime online.
- 29:29Speaker 2: NYPD Police Chief Joseph Kenney says, Holly Tahata and Kensley Austin,
- 29:34Speaker 2: we're squatting in naughty of Vittel's apartment. When Vittel returned
- 29:37Speaker 2: to the apartment in March twelfth, she confronted the squatters,
- 29:40Speaker 2: who proceeded to allegedly beat her to death and cram
- 29:42Speaker 2: her body into a double bag. Tehata and Alston allegedly
- 29:46Speaker 2: through Vittel's personal effects and more in the trash, then
- 29:49Speaker 2: left the building in her Lexes as UV. Using Vittel's
- 29:52Speaker 2: bank cards, Tehata and Alston charged their way to Pennsylvania.
- 30:10Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace Hollie Jacobs joining US CBS
- 30:15Speaker 1: twenty one. So let me understand immediately, these two idiots
- 30:21Speaker 1: start using her credit cards and bank cards.
- 30:23Speaker 4: Absolutely, they're taking They took her Lexus. We have the
- 30:27Speaker 4: security cam footage of them inside the Lexus driving all
- 30:31Speaker 4: the way down to Pennsylvania and most likely using her
- 30:34Speaker 4: bank of cards and accounts to fund their way to
- 30:37Speaker 4: that area.
- 30:38Speaker 1: As you know, joining us V. Brandt, who has literally
- 30:41Speaker 1: traveled around the world hunting down wrongdoers. RV. Brant, what
- 30:47Speaker 1: about these two. They're not even smart enough to cover
- 30:51Speaker 1: their tracks. They're actually light canceling Gretel and the bred crumbs.
- 30:55Speaker 1: They're leaving a trail a mile wide by stealing her
- 31:01Speaker 1: car and using all her credit cards. Okay, so number one,
- 31:06Speaker 1: they're squatters who are living in the grandmother Nadia's mom's
- 31:13Speaker 1: apartment in a beautiful building in downtown Manhattan. They're squatting
- 31:21Speaker 1: number one of their thiefs. They're very secretive. The super
- 31:25Speaker 1: in the building didn't even know they were living there,
- 31:28Speaker 1: So they're living the life of Riley in somebody else's apartment.
- 31:31Speaker 1: Then when Nadia comes home to clear out the apartment,
- 31:36Speaker 1: they ensue, a struggle ensues, and they beat her dead.
- 31:41Speaker 1: Did you hear doctor Kendall Crown's explaining everything that was
- 31:46Speaker 1: done to this woman, the severe beating and likely kicking
- 31:51Speaker 1: to the ribs that killed her, blunt force trauma to
- 31:54Speaker 1: her head, fracturing all the delicate bones in her face.
- 32:01Speaker 1: Then that's not enough. They have to steal her car
- 32:04Speaker 1: and use her credit cards. I mean, we don't allow
- 32:09Speaker 1: the twins to say the S word, which is stupid.
- 32:12Speaker 1: But how much more stupid could they be?
- 32:16Speaker 5: And so they couldn't have been any more stupid. They
- 32:19Speaker 5: gave it no thought whatsoever. They when they committed the murder,
- 32:26Speaker 5: they won. They didn't have to murder this woman. This
- 32:32Speaker 5: woman couldn't have stopped them from leaving, but they did
- 32:36Speaker 5: it anyway, and they did it in a manner that
- 32:39Speaker 5: just showed just a fit of rage. Doctor Crown's the
- 32:46Speaker 5: way he explained it. The injuries. I've come across this
- 32:50Speaker 5: beatings of people being beat to death before, and I
- 32:54Speaker 5: can tell you what happened. She was beat the knocked
- 32:58Speaker 5: to the ground. Then they say she wasn't punched. They
- 33:02Speaker 5: stomped her, They somped her face, they stomped her chest,
- 33:07Speaker 5: and they stuffed her into a closet, knowing damn well
- 33:12Speaker 5: that they're on when they left, they're on video. They
- 33:15Speaker 5: were swatting in this building. They know there's cameras in
- 33:18Speaker 5: this building, and they know that they're going to be
- 33:21Speaker 5: seen leaving the apartment.
- 33:23Speaker 9: Then they take the victim's car, which they know is
- 33:26Speaker 9: going to be reported stolen, and use the victims credit
- 33:29Speaker 9: cards which they know are also going to be reported stolen.
- 33:34Speaker 5: There was no thought to this whatsoever. This was complete
- 33:39Speaker 5: impulse by these individuals.
- 33:42Speaker 1: And I'm looking at a shot of the inside, the
- 33:45Speaker 1: inside of the closet, and I see this mom's blood
- 33:53Speaker 1: everywhere and the outline of the Duffel bag. It's the
- 33:57Speaker 1: reason I can see the outline is because it's ringed
- 34:00Speaker 1: in blood. And when I think about these two depraved
- 34:06Speaker 1: animals that set up the scenario for her son to
- 34:11Speaker 1: find his mother dad stuffed in a Duffel bag. According
- 34:15Speaker 1: to some reports, her foot visible. So who are these guys?
- 34:21Speaker 1: Take a listen to Rachel Benia Crime online.
- 34:24Speaker 11: Once Vittel's body is found on the fourteenth floor, her
- 34:27Speaker 11: Lexus is reported stolen and the US Marshals are able
- 34:30Speaker 11: to track to Hotten, Austin to Lower Paston Township, Pennsylvania. There,
- 34:34Speaker 11: the couple are involved in a traffic accident. March thirteenth,
- 34:38Speaker 11: Austin gives police a fake name, slowing the process of
- 34:41Speaker 11: clearing the accident.
- 34:42Speaker 1: So they steal the car. And then to top it
- 34:45Speaker 1: all off, they're involved in a traffic accident for Notnavi Alona.
- 34:50Speaker 1: What about these two, I certainly wouldn't put them on
- 34:53Speaker 1: the stand. You think they couldn't even withstand direct examination,
- 34:58Speaker 1: which let's cross examination. Absolutely not.
- 35:01Speaker 3: I would not put them understand if they were my client,
- 35:03Speaker 3: they're subject to so much crossing. First off, they can't
- 35:06Speaker 3: they won't be able to keep their stories straight, as
- 35:08Speaker 3: you can see all these stupid steps that they took
- 35:11Speaker 3: after they committed this homicide, that they're not the smartest crayons,
- 35:15Speaker 3: the sharpest crayons out of the box. So in terms
- 35:18Speaker 3: of what's going to happen next, though, since they're arrested
- 35:21Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania, they'll have to be extra dieted to New York.
- 35:24Speaker 3: More than likely they're going to be charged with murder
- 35:27Speaker 3: in the second degree, which carries a mandatory minimum of
- 35:29Speaker 3: fifteen years to life maximum of twenty five years to life.
- 35:33Speaker 3: I'll be curious to see what are their defenses. Is
- 35:36Speaker 3: this woman going to alleged that the man forced her
- 35:39Speaker 3: to do it. Is the man going to alleged it
- 35:41Speaker 3: was the woman who actually did it?
- 35:43Speaker 10: Who knows?
- 35:43Speaker 3: They'll probably be pointing their fingers at each other. I'm
- 35:46Speaker 3: curious to see whether they gave a statement to law
- 35:48Speaker 3: enforcement about what happened.
- 35:49Speaker 1: You know what, I can't wait as a prosecutor to
- 35:53Speaker 1: somehow get these pictures in front of the jury, because
- 35:57Speaker 1: when they come in front of the jury, they're going
- 35:59Speaker 1: to be all dressed up and looking sweet and angelic,
- 36:02Speaker 1: much like the Menendez brothers did after they murdered their
- 36:05Speaker 1: mom and dad. In court, they looked like two college
- 36:09Speaker 1: co eds that had just come out of algebra class
- 36:12Speaker 1: heading across campus to do something philanthropic. BS. They're not
- 36:17Speaker 1: gonna look like this in court. They're gonna be all
- 36:20Speaker 1: fixed up, wearing a suit, wearing a nice dress, with
- 36:23Speaker 1: a fleet of lawyers on either side of them. It's
- 36:26Speaker 1: kind of hard to reconcile what they're gonna look at
- 36:29Speaker 1: it like a trial to what happened to this mom Naudia.
- 36:36Speaker 1: You know, it reminds me of Scott Peterson. I remember
- 36:39Speaker 1: every day in trial, I'd wait for him to come in,
- 36:43Speaker 1: and he would walk in from the left side of
- 36:45Speaker 1: the judge's bench, all bowed up in cocky like football player,
- 36:50Speaker 1: perfectly groomed like he just had a haircut, shave, and
- 36:56Speaker 1: wearing a very expensive, nice looking suit. Some people thought
- 37:00Speaker 1: he was attractive. I thought he looked like the devil,
- 37:02Speaker 1: full of piss and vinegar, very confident. That's how he
- 37:07Speaker 1: presented in front of the jury. Now that's how we
- 37:09Speaker 1: look when you walk in the room. But when the
- 37:11Speaker 1: jury came in, he looked all pitiful and sad and
- 37:16Speaker 1: try to make contact eye contact with the jurors. I
- 37:19Speaker 1: nearly vomited, but I managed to, you know, choke it down.
- 37:23Speaker 1: That's what these two are going to do. And you
- 37:25Speaker 1: know what's going to shake a jury into reality's when
- 37:31Speaker 1: they see the autopsy photos. When they see the pictures
- 37:36Speaker 1: of the victim, a woman along with her little puppy
- 37:40Speaker 1: dog cleaning out her dad mom's apartment. Doctor Kendall crowns
- 37:46Speaker 1: very often certain autopsy photos where the big y is
- 37:54Speaker 1: cut into the victim. Or for instance, I had a
- 37:57Speaker 1: case of dtor crowds where a woman was bludgeoned dead
- 38:02Speaker 1: and in one you couldn't see it. She had very beautiful, thick,
- 38:07Speaker 1: dark brunette hair and you couldn't see the blow on
- 38:14Speaker 1: her head. The only way for the jury to see
- 38:17Speaker 1: it was the subcutaneous tissue and the autopsy shot where
- 38:21Speaker 1: her head the skin was cut and pulled back there
- 38:27Speaker 1: underneath you could see the hemorrhage and the blood. I
- 38:31Speaker 1: had to fight tooth and claw to get that in.
- 38:35Speaker 1: Not for the upsetting nature of the photo. I hated
- 38:38Speaker 1: looking at it, but to show all the bleeding, the
- 38:43Speaker 1: subdural bleeding that she endured because of a blow to
- 38:50Speaker 1: the head. So those pictures very likely won't make it
- 38:53Speaker 1: to this jury. But the pictures of her body covered
- 38:57Speaker 1: in bruises, probably cracked teeth, the beating in the face,
- 39:03Speaker 1: the kicking to the ribs, they're gonna see all that,
- 39:05Speaker 1: and they're gonna look over at the two defendants sitting
- 39:08Speaker 1: there like two angels with halos over their head. That's
- 39:10Speaker 1: a sharp dichotomy, wouldn't you agree, doctor Crowns.
- 39:13Speaker 12: Pad cases where the defense attorneys subject to the pictures
- 39:16Speaker 12: being put in, and there was one judge in Chicago
- 39:19Speaker 12: he said that murder is ugly, and that is what
- 39:22Speaker 12: the jury is going to see, so they just have
- 39:24Speaker 12: to get over it.
- 39:25Speaker 1: Well, okay, spoken like a true medical examiner. The jury
- 39:29Speaker 1: will quote have to just get over it. Okay, Doctor
- 39:33Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, why did I ask you an emotional question.
- 39:36Speaker 1: That's my fault, not your fault. That's totally my fault.
- 39:40Speaker 1: IRV Brant, What about these two, because the jury is
- 39:44Speaker 1: going to hear about flight. Why steal a car and
- 39:48Speaker 1: flee to another jurisdiction if you're not guilty, I mean, IRV.
- 39:51Speaker 1: When you see a state treeper pull up behind you
- 39:53Speaker 1: on the interstate, do you gun it at ninety mpahs
- 39:57Speaker 1: to get away?
- 39:58Speaker 3: No?
- 39:58Speaker 1: You might hit the brake. But that's about it. Why
- 40:01Speaker 1: were they on the run? Why do criminals run? It
- 40:05Speaker 1: only makes similar worse.
- 40:06Speaker 5: It's true, Nancy, but these individuals weren't thinking about that.
- 40:11Speaker 5: They were completely living in the moment. They know they
- 40:15Speaker 5: have just committed a heinous crime and that they were
- 40:19Speaker 5: in a lot of trouble, and they were going completely
- 40:23Speaker 5: by instinct. They were just fleeing. They fled in the
- 40:28Speaker 5: victim's vehicle. That's the worst possible choice to do. Steal
- 40:34Speaker 5: someone else's vehicle, take the subway, take a train. Fleeing
- 40:39Speaker 5: in the victim's vehicle is just absurd, and using the
- 40:44Speaker 5: victim's credit cards is absurd. They have no defense in
- 40:50Speaker 5: this case.
- 40:51Speaker 1: Well, I got to tell you this. You have tried
- 40:52Speaker 1: down a lot of defendants all over the world. They
- 40:54Speaker 1: made it very hard to find themselves for you to
- 40:57Speaker 1: find them. Not so with these two. Okay, here's my
- 41:01Speaker 1: next concern, and I'll close with this wonderful thought, Hallie Jacobs.
- 41:06Speaker 1: This is going to the Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg. He'll
- 41:08Speaker 1: probably let him out on bond. Are at leased on unrecognissance?
- 41:13Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean as of right now, they're just being
- 41:15Speaker 4: held in Dolphin County Prison and you know, depending extradition
- 41:19Speaker 4: to New York on murder charges. So we'll just kind
- 41:21Speaker 4: of have to wait and see. But hopefully, you know,
- 41:24Speaker 4: justice has served and.
- 41:25Speaker 1: The reality is, to our special guest, doctor Gary Ricato,
- 41:30Speaker 1: clinical psychologist, the son can't even begin to heal until
- 41:35Speaker 1: the trial process is over, and these two haven't even
- 41:38Speaker 1: been extra diized yet.
- 41:39Speaker 8: Absolutely, and you know, our hearts definitely go out to him.
- 41:44Speaker 8: One thing, Nancy, I definitely wanted to have an opportunity
- 41:47Speaker 8: to say, is that I think with this case, based
- 41:51Speaker 8: on smilar cases that I've looked at, I wouldn't be
- 41:55Speaker 8: surprised given how incredibly impulsive and chaotic the scene was
- 42:00Speaker 8: learned that the offenders were hopped up on some kind
- 42:02Speaker 8: of drug and that shouldn't be shocking when you envision
- 42:06Speaker 8: people making bone headed moves like this, getting in a
- 42:09Speaker 8: traffic accident and so forth, because that can add to
- 42:12Speaker 8: the ferocity of what we're seeing. And the other thing
- 42:16Speaker 8: I think that people are going to hear about in
- 42:18Speaker 8: the courtroom is a kind of a sympathy story about
- 42:22Speaker 8: probably two people that came from messed up backgrounds, didn't
- 42:26Speaker 8: really have a sense of home, and as a consequence,
- 42:28Speaker 8: felt a kind of entitlement to take what they wanted
- 42:31Speaker 8: from the world that wouldn't give them anything, and instead
- 42:35Speaker 8: what you wind up with is parasitic behavior.
- 42:37Speaker 1: Doctor Gary Priccado, I agree with everything that you just said,
- 42:40Speaker 1: but let me counter this. You think I care, You
- 42:44Speaker 1: think I care about their imaginary bad childhood or whether
- 42:51Speaker 1: they or as you said, hopped up on math you know,
- 42:54Speaker 1: don't care, doesn't matter. Under the law voluntary usage drugs
- 42:58Speaker 1: for alcohol, it is not a defense. So to Hay
- 43:02Speaker 1: with that, they are going down. I don't know if
- 43:05Speaker 1: Alvin Braggs is the man to do it, but these
- 43:09Speaker 1: two are headed for hard jail time. We wait as
- 43:13Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend,