Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #60: Truth Bombs, Tough Love and Tips for Parents of Struggling Adult Children

Transcript

#60: Truth Bombs, Tough Love and Tips for Parents of Struggling Adult Children · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, a podcast for parents with older kids in their 20s and 30s who are struggling to launch into adulthood.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: Each week I talk about the real issues parents face when their grown kids are still living at home, isolated in their bedrooms, unmotivated, and seemingly uninterested in building a life for themselves outside the house.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Before I introduce today's guest, I want to share a quick story.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Years ago, one of my kids attended a private high school, fully paid for by me, as part of a four-year program designed to prepare them for university.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, during their second year, their grades began to slip.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: I gave them multiple warnings that if things did not improve, I would have to stop paying for this private education and they'd have to go back to the public school.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: I believed that would be enough motivation, but it wasn't.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: When the final report card came in and nothing had changed, I followed through.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: They were devastated and angry.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: But it was the consequences of their choices.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Regardless, they were having a really rough time, and so I decided they needed to seek professional support to process their emotions and take responsibility for their actions.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: I interviewed several therapists and ultimately chose one because of his no-nonsense approach.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: That's what my kid needed.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Over the next few months, real progress happened.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: There was clarity, accountability, and growth.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Eventually the sessions ended as the new school year began.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: But I made a promise to my child that if they brought their grades back up to where they needed to be the previous year, that I would re-enroll them in the private school so they could return for their final year and graduate alongside their friends and teachers that they loved.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, they did the work, their grades improved dramatically, and I followed through.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: It was an incredible lesson.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: My guest today is that therapist from 15 years ago, Neil Solomon.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Neil holds multiple degrees in education and social work.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: He spent 10 years teaching at the junior high level before moving into his private practice.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: And for over 20 years, he has worked with adolescents, individuals, couples, and families supporting mental health, parenting challenges, relationship issues, addiction, and grief.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: His work focuses on helping people build confidence, trust, and stronger connections.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is a powerful one, which is why I've called it Truth Bombs, Tough Love, and Tips for Parents of Struggling Adult Children.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to share it with you, and I think you'll benefit from it.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: So let's get started.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Neil?
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining me here on launch.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: I am so glad to have you.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to be doing this with you.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: You have been in private practice for over two decades, working with adolescents and young adults.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: So you've seen firsthand what parents are struggling with every day.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: So I want to jump right in with a question that many parents are worried about.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: But before I do, I want to be clear about the kind of conversation.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a like a warning sign.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: I want parents to understand the kind of conversation we're about to have.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: We're not pulling any punches today.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: In fact, when I first met you about 15 years ago, one thing I noticed about you was that you did not sugarcoat anything.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: And I I love that.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: I found that very refreshing.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: I invited you here, not just because of your experience, but I also want to have a very honest conversation and drop what I'm calling truth bombs today.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Which for some parents uh it might be hard to hear.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: And that's the little warning.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: But this needs to be said.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Let's face it, parents are stuck.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so their kids are stuck.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: So I want you to be honest and tell us what is going on with today's generation.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: What are you seeing in your practice now more than ever?
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing more chaos, children running the show, parents throwing their hands up.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: I want them to like me.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: We need to be friends.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: We are simply creating soft humans who are incapable of problem solving, who can't get unstuck, they cannot think outside the box, and they are profoundly sitting in quicksand.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm seeing, and obviously we're seeing the same things.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: I see it more from the parents coming to me.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: You see it, I think, from the young, like the younger kids, but also the parents.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: But I don't see the kids.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: I just, I'm just hearing the parents.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: What I'm getting is the same thing you're getting this pervasive sense of entitlement, a lack of motivation, excessive screen time, a level of anger, and an unprecedented degree of depression and anxiety that amongst the youth that I have never seen before.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: And we need to address this.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: There's no fire in the belly.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: Discipline is not there.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: The entitlement, as you referenced, is raging.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Can't do enough fast enough.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: They're not doing with their own hands.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: So it hence the anger, anxiety, the rage goes up.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, screens across the spectrum are a common denominator.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: That means they're there isolated in their bedroom with the door closed, moods shift, and so that leads to really bad coping and antisocial behavior.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: And look what you did to me, right?
5:41
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: So, what do you let's compare it to like generationally?
5:44
SPEAKER_01: What what is what do you think has fundamentally changed for adolescents?
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Because we've both been around.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: The access to distractions that are coming at us at such a high rate of speed without the ability to stop, think about it, filter, reflect, make better decisions.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: We don't have as much physical activity.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: There's not this balanced approach.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: It's more about what can I get now in the instant moment that's new, fresh, exciting, which doesn't encourage the problem solving I mentioned a moment ago and slowing down.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: So the distractions, in my view, are really the culprit here, right?
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Because you don't have to do much.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a passive consumption.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: So let's talk, and this is one of the truth bombs, let's talk about what parents are getting wrong.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: Because these are good people.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: They're good, they're well-intentioned, they're kind-hearted, but their parenting style is like backfiring on them.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: They're trying to protect their kids from stress, from discomfort, from failure.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: But what's happening is that they're finding themselves with these adults who aren't developing, like you said, the skills that they need, like resilience and problem solving to cope and thrive.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: And so parents are wondering why their kids can't handle type of any type of challenge and why aren't they moving forward?
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm sure when they come to you, they're saying things like, Something's wrong with my kid.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Truth is, something's wrong with the parenting.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Right?
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: Are parents really underestimating how capable their kids are?
7:20
SPEAKER_00: No, they're not valuing their critical position in life.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: So most important male and female role model in that sort of dynamic, but they're not even trying.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: They're going in.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to disappoint little Samantha.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: We want Johnny to be happy, riddled with guilt.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: But we know on guilt, you don't make good decision making.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't translate well.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: They're operating from a point of weakness.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: The kids sense it that their parents are afraid to parent.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: I tell parents they have friends.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: If they don't like what you're doing, that means you're parenting.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: There'll be a time later on where you can have a friendship.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: They don't need you that way.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: They're failing too because they're comparing themselves to those next door, those on social media.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: And because everyone else is doing this, it's like a herd mentality.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: But that's a lose-lose.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: So I try to empower each family and say, look, you need to step up and create a structure of more no's in order for your child to take good calculated risk so that they know where the line is.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: So parents have come in underestimating the job itself and what they ought to be doing to ensure optimal success to launch these kids for a successful future on the journey of more positives.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Instead, they're being held hostage by the very creature they've created.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't think they realize that what they that they're reinforcing the very behavior that years later they want to change.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: So now what we're seeing a lot of is this entitlement.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: A generation that is so unmotivated.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I hate to say lazy because I don't think these kids are lazy.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I think they're quite happy to do what suits them.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: But if there's a task that's mundane or requires hard work, well, they expect their parents to do it for them.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you think is really going on here?
9:16
SPEAKER_01: What is this underlying sense of entitlement?
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Why do we have an epidemic of kids that aren't moving forward?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: I think there's been this view, and this is where it really gets, I think, dicey education, the background of society has not taken up the mantle here of best interests of children.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: The system's antiquated, it's back 40 plus years, and the kids don't have discipline, they don't have the structure, there's no healthy fear of authority.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And that translates even to good hardworking people who might otherwise have tried to enforce it in the house, all bets are off when you go into a classroom.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: It's like the Wild West.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: You can do what you want.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: If you want to hand it in into the next semester, no penalty.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Just hand it in.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: You miss a class when we grew up, a call came home, a look, we got ourselves back on track.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Now kids laugh at it.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Kids come into my office.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Look, I got a ribbon, but I wasn't even there to participate.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really in the fundamental structure of a society where we're modeling for the children.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to offend you, we don't want to upset you.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: So do what you want.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Most parents now have to work.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: They're away from their children more, more guilt.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: So we throw stuff at them.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Fundamentally, we've done a huge disservice because kids are not equipped to do what they don't want to do.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: We haven't taught them how to go through things they don't like.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: We just give them more screens.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: See, that's what I'm saying.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Like 10 years ago, it was okay to do that.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it would you would it was very very selfish of us as parents to say, here, here's this new toy, play with it for a while, stay out of my hair.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Not realizing that that has perpetuated itself.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: It now it is now it's become the problem.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: What we used, what we used as a little bit of a crutch is now we can't take it away from them.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: And we've also created these kids that can't do anything other than that.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Because everything that's hard work, we've never let them, we've never let them have to sweat it out.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, because they don't fail.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And the minute you say it's gone, oh my goodness, the child weaponizes that, manipulates, and creates sort stories that allow the parents to feel real fear and say, okay, fine, have your laptop back.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't want you to hurt yourself.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a part of me that believes that that parents who are over-supporting and over-functioning and enabling are doing it out of fear, competitiveness, and even because of their own childhood dysfunction and trauma.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the enabling is really big on that.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: I think bullying is worse now than when we went to school.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to talk about that actually.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about what you think when you see a kid that's been bullied, what that does to them and to the parent.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Because now there's such a there's such a fear about what the real world is going to do to them because they were bullied in school.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the other things that keeps kids, young adults, actually in their room is their fear of thinking that what happened in school is now going to happen in life.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: So is this big and overwhelming?
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: But one family at a time, I think we can, by enlightening and empowering parents to realize that we need to shift the paradigm and try a different dance.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Because right now we're we have a we're getting a generation of parents that feel so powerless and have such low self-confidence.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's because deep down they know that they that what they have done hasn't isn't working out well.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: And there is a lot of guilt and a lot of shame around that.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: And now they don't know how to change course.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: So it's this like vicious cycle, and everything ends up staying the same.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: But I think we need to talk about boundaries.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: I feel like if if there's anything that they can start doing to start swinging, you know, the the issues with their child in the right direction, it's to set boundaries.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: But there's a resistance.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: There's a resistance around boundaries, and I think that's what's missing.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Parents are afraid to set them and they they struggle to uphold them.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's the lack of boundaries that are that's what's keeping kids stuck.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: So why do you think parents struggle so much with boundaries?
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Number one, it's the recognition, the acknowledgement that they need to happen and why it's so important.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: The boundaries are the structure, the limits, the love to take good risk.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: When you put that into practice, then you have to follow through consistently, or the child takes more power.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: I talk to parents all the time.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: If you put two things into play, you don't follow through, now you're another run down the rabbit hole.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: The enforcement, because this always gets harder before it gets easier.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Is it possible?
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes, parents have capacity, they're very resilient, children are more resilient.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: It's about the buy-in to the process of, but this is what we need to do in order for our kids to be functional, well adjusted, and that means some growing pains.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: It's how you sell it.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: We let it go this way for a long time.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: We realize it wasn't working, we're gonna correct it, we're gonna make mistakes, but this is what we need to see.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: It's been so much one way for so long.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Look how hard.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Could this actually work?
14:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, but small chunks, and that's what I tell parents.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: We gotta chunk it.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Kids will do it, but initially they're gonna make you pay, they're gonna get up in your face, they're gonna have temper tantrums, then they'll start feeling better because you've gotten over that hurdle of, but we need to impose something different.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: This old way isn't working, we need a new guard, and to realize why, as a family system, we're doing this together.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: You you touched on something a second ago.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: Chunks, what was that you said that when you when parents come to you and they know they have to start setting boundaries?
15:20
SPEAKER_01: What is that step that you you suggested that they do?
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Like mini goals, little chunks, increments of to do things.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is, you gotta stick to that.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: You have to tweak it.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: But I say to parents, no more than three things are we gonna try at once.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: Those are the chunks.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Whatever the family identifies as something that they need to see done differently, that's the key.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: And then keep enforcing it.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: I love you, but your behavior sucks.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: You just earned this.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: So we're talking now about expectations, yes, boundaries, and consequences.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: They're hugely important to development.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't agree more, and I think that's what's missing, because I think that's how that's how life is.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Life is all about whatever you do, that's all just there's expectations and there's consequences.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: So why why is it that parents have so much trouble enforcing them at home when this is life?
16:23
SPEAKER_01: So no wonder our kids aren't going to leave the house because they don't want it to deal with the responsibilities and the expectations and the consequences.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Consequences are everywhere: driving, working, relationships, friendships.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: You can't just do what you want to do and not expect some sort of fallout if you don't.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: So I question why parents are so afraid of setting those boundaries and those expectations and then following through with consequences.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: Like when they say to me, uh, you know, I can't force them, my mind is blown.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Of course they can.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Of course they can, and and they should.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Where did they get this in their mind that they can't force them?
17:03
SPEAKER_00: They're sipping from a whole other container.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Is what I think.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: We the parents create the monsters behaviorally.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Can you reverse it?
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes, but you gotta dig in, roll up your sleeves, and do hard, hard work.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: What we've done, we've given the keys to the beautiful luxurious golf and country club, but the kid hasn't done anything that would look like they've earned it.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, I'm generalizing here.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Client came in last week, 17 years of age.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: I want a job, but I don't want to work.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: Now try that one on for a second.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: What?
17:45
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't matter.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: That's what I said to her, and I said, just a second, how does that coexist?
17:51
SPEAKER_00: That's not compatible.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: This is the illusion they're under.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: And I believe because of social media.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say, did she show you a TikTok?
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Right?
18:02
SPEAKER_01: Right because look, they're doing it on TikTok, they're putting on makeup and they're getting paid.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Glamorized, romanticized, whatever the case might be.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: I can have this now.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: So parents, as a rule, who are good people, have literally sold the farm, and then I'll tell them, Do you want your kid living with you 50 plus years of age?
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Because that's what you're modeling day to day.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think the limits around screen usage, kind of take it or leave it, that would be one of those chunks.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think something out there has created a backdrop where we're living in fear and we keep perpetuating this cycle.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: So when parents step up and say, Look, I admit I did something wrong, then we can begin to move forward.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: Because unless you admit that to your child, how are they gonna omit?
18:52
SPEAKER_00: It really takes sincerity and transparency to say, look, this isn't working.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: We're not giving you the tools.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: I think parents are afraid of they think that if they set a boundary, it's like a rule and it's controlling and that it's gonna damage the relationship.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: And you and I spoke about this that parents they don't want to, they think that that that's gonna ruin the relationship and they want to remain in good standing.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: So they don't enforce because they don't want to be disliked, they're afraid of that.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: And they're also afraid of the mental health issues, which is another topic altogether.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: So I for as a disclaimer, we should say that if there's any parent that's listening that has an adult child who is struggling with depression, this is not for them.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: And they should get the professional help that they need.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about, we're talking about young adults who are very capable of doing more with their lives and they're not struggling with mental health issues, and that they just are simply choosing not to do anything with their lives.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: And those parents, they have so much more leeway.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: What do you hear when you when you say to a parent, you know, you got to cut the cord on on the Wi-Fi or or you know, limit the use of cell phone?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the pushback you get?
20:02
SPEAKER_01: And then tell me, like, what do you see moving forward?
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Because we know that there are parents listening to this going, tell me what to do, and then tell me what I'm gonna deal with when I do that.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: The pushback typically is but they need it.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: But you're telling a parent that's been doing this for years now, and you're saying, You've got to stop doing this, and they're scared.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: They're really scared, they're scared of being yelled at, they're scared of what's gonna go on, even though we know that there's way more damage that's happening in that behind that closed door in front of that screen than when the doors open and they're outside of their room.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Pushback is just that.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: They don't want more fighting, they don't want large tempered tantrums, they don't want devastation, destruction.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: But what they don't realize, to touch on what you said, is the passive aggressiveness of the child of being in the room.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: However, with the stipulation, there could be emerging mental health down the road from inactivity, inertia, and what they're seeing online, which because of the blue light stimulant makes them more anxious.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And it's a vicious cycle.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: I think simply it's a bad habit that keeps repeating itself, and the parents falsely think, well, better that they're in the house where I can supervise than if they're on the streets.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't really add up because the next door to the bedroom, they could be cutting themselves, they can be doing online gambling, they could be watching things they shouldn't be watching.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: But because they're under our roof, it's a false sense of security that it's not as bad as we think.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: But they know deep down intellectually that it's really bad.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: They don't want to stir the hornet's nest.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: They don't even know.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: I how many times I've asked parents what are they doing during the day?
21:43
SPEAKER_01: They don't even know.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: I think they don't want to know.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: They don't want to know.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: But even if they ask, they're not told the truth.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: It's such a disconnect.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: There's a disconnect.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: But I think at the end of the day, they think they're not they're not as bad as it could be because at least they're there.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: They're not engaging for family disabilities.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: If they're happening, they're not participating.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: It's mood, it's no.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: There are no routines.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: If you ask most of these parents, either they've given up or they still try to wake their adult child up, which is not their responsibility.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: But at this point, your options are getting narrower.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: You've got to make some hard decisions.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's like the take it or leave it.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: They want to keep going down this pathway.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, that means they're going to be with you until what?
22:29
SPEAKER_00: You're dead?
22:30
SPEAKER_00: And even if they inherit money or not, they're going to be angry big time because they've not done anything for themselves.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: Or is it the recognition that we've really messed up here?
22:38
SPEAKER_00: But in order for the family to thrive and come together, we need to do something differently.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And that means hanging in there for all of the hoopla that's going to come from making a big transformation.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: I think uh secretly they're hoping that the the the adult kid is gonna change on their own, which they don't.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So years pass.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: We know COVID was a big problem, but that's over now.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's a really hard situation.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think I've mentioned this several times on my podcast that there's so much shame and guilt that goes along with it that it's taboo, and parents don't like talking about it.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: And so I think they really need people like us to to give them almost permission to open that door, go in there and say, you've got to do more with your life.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you volunteer, I don't care if you've got to step outside.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: There's no social connection anymore.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: So you want to know why they're not coming to the dinner table or going to family functions?
23:38
SPEAKER_01: They don't know how to talk.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: They they have no eye contact anymore.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: They've lost all of their social skills.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: They think they are friends online, but they don't.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: They're not real friends.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: They're not virtual, they're not real life.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: So this is the whole thing is just blowing up out of control.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And in my opinion, healthy boundaries, restrictions, consequences, expectations, these build confidence.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: These build these create the responsibilities and the independence, and they actually make kids feel safer and more capable because it's the little baby steps of you know, competence and competence when they do things builds confidence.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I just I want parents to push, push, push, and not be so afraid.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: The the damage is happening right underneath their roof.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: And to add, it's that predictability which gives them those life skills.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: I think a big part of why they don't show up too, in addition to the eye contact, is what do they have to offer the conversation when their whole life is very tunnel visioned?
24:41
SPEAKER_00: The other part, too, to add, I believe parents, if they look at this, and when they do, I say when, because they need to, or else the kid definitely is not moving forward.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: If they don't address it, then the problem doesn't exist.
24:55
unknown: Right.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: It's under the roof, it's contained, it's very unhealthy and destructive.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: They'll outgrow it.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, I created this living together guide to help parents write out clear expectations because they've lost their voice.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: They they they can't even speak anymore to their kids because they get instantly shut down.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: So I wrote this guide.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: It's like an agreement, and I feel like it's really what parents need is like these tools.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: I want to drop another truth bomb on parents.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, that that it's uh they think it's their kids that have to get their shit together.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: When in in reality, it's the parents that who have to really take ownership of the situation.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: They have to work on themselves, they have to work on that relationship with their kid.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: We've discussed this earlier time that there's that there's a lack of connection between the child, adult child, and the parent.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: And that's what has to change.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, spending I'm telling parents, take your kid out on an errand, go for dinner, go to a movie.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: But you've got to connect with your kid.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: You've got to give them a reason to get out of their room.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: Don't just say, get out of your room.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Let's do something together.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Neil, as we get to the end of this conversation, I always like to leave parents, and we are, we're giving them little suggestions and little nuggets of change.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: But I think parents that are coming to you and that I'm speaking to, they're they're ready.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: They're ready to adjust their parenting style and and help their kids to start moving forward.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: So, what what suggestions might you have starting today for for a parent that is ready, ready to take the plunge and open that door and get their kid starting, you know, living their life outside of the house?
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Amazing question.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: I think number one be hopeful.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: You want to go in knowing that we'll get there, that we're going from problem mode into solution focused mode, that it is hard work, but it'll pay off.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: That you need to practice patience because in order for something really good to happen, you got to put the time and effort in that your child is not going to be disadvantaged, that whatever venom comes, whatever resistance, that will smooth over with your commitment, a steady hand, being non-reactive, non-emotional, but laying out the expectations like a business, like a plan, and not engaging with the raw, icky emotion and the impulsivity.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: It's about this is what we're going to try, here's where we're going, we're not giving up.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: And then you come back, this is what worked.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: We went out more.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: To your point, cultivating that connection, going out, having an ice cream, sitting down at Tim Hortons, bring a deck of cards, anything that moves it and looks like we're building relationships, then the trust is established, and then maybe we go for bigger things.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: So small chunks to get to the point of these aha light bulb moments of I matter, I'm worth it, self-esteem grows, execution grows, but it's hard work.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: What do you see in your practice that has made like the most positive changes?
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Consistency, the buy-in of the practical suggestions.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Because I can't tell you what to do.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: I can just offer ideas, guidance, and recommendations.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: It's I have 10 things that really work that are tried and true.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And I'll just offer like a menu.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to try one, two, three?
28:17
SPEAKER_00: It's about rooting it in a pragmatic examination of how we got here, not just to put it into a compartment because, like you know, a beach ball underwater is still going to come back up.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Acknowledge it.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: What are the steps we're going to take here?
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Let's get going.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: I look for exceptions where things maybe weren't as wonky or off track.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Get those back on.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Try something.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's re-engaging with a hobby, I go where they're at.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: I try to cast this net and funnel it into themes of things that were there before that maybe we got lost with.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Why reinvent the wheel when you can just go with that?
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Or get their input.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Let's start brainstorming.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: So it makes it like a back and forth.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: It's a fluid conversation.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: I think people appreciate that.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Using other people's stories is really important.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, with confidentiality to help normalize it, even though it's not a great feeling that you're going through this.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: But most people on some level are struggling with this topic.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: That also helps.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: It makes it more personal.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: That leads them to you, oh, buy-in goes up because yes, we can see that working.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: We're prepared to do what it takes.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: It's about being real.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: But I love what you said about engaging, engaging them because they're not kids anymore, really.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And they and they, if you start, you know, they say they're adults, you have to treat me like so.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: If you want to be treated like an adult, let's come to the table and let's start together figuring out a plan where you can start making these little baby steps forward.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that truthfully, I think they want to.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: They do.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: My job is to peel back the layers of the onion.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: What are your fears?
29:55
SPEAKER_00: What are your triggers?
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, validate those.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Here's the game plan.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: And going back to the roots, like you said, going back to your roots.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Over the holidays, a client of mine said that she took an idea from the support group I have to go out and buy Lego.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Lego for adults, right?
30:15
SPEAKER_01: And she just sat there and her kid came out of her room and they sat there and they started putting and they were started to talk and go back to the roots.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, even when it comes to social, your social circle, call an old friend that you might have gone to camp with or did a hobby with or somebody that you grew up with.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: People are lonely and they would and everyone's afraid to reach out and be make the first move.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: But you shouldn't be afraid.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: There's you shouldn't be afraid.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Just make the first move because we all need social connection.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: So I want, yeah.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: What what would you say?
30:46
SPEAKER_01: I always like to leave on a positive note.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, what can you say to parents?
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Because I, you know, I I do believe, I might be a little polyana here, but I believe that there that change is possible.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: So, what can you say to parents to give them some hope?
31:00
SPEAKER_00: That you've got to own whatever you've come through, and that it's a journey.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: I mentioned that before, which implies more positives over the long haul.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: So there'll be some speed bumps along the way, they don't feel good, a little bit of backsliding.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: But in general, your kids deserve you to show up differently.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: We know you have before, you got to get that back on track.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: It's not too late.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: Let's embrace what we have today going forward.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: You can't always move on.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: You want to remember back there to inform, instruct so you don't go back to that bad spot, but you got to move forward, right?
31:37
SPEAKER_00: So that the bricks, these invisible bricks, come off our shoulders to see what's possible.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to live in the rearview mirror of I chulda, coulda.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: We know we know what doesn't work.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Let's use that in a meaningful way and just go day to day, keep trying new material out, stand there and make it happen.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Don't engage when it gets icky and unpleasant.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Keep it real, keep it positive, and make your goals realistic.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I go back to the chunks.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: I think everybody has that capacity.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: It's about the belief in yourself that your family system can function better.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: A new norm, not the way it was.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: That old norm didn't work, but we learned lessons from that and to apply those lessons to have a better trajectory.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Parents are not powerless, they have more power than they know.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: And their children, no matter what age, I mean, I have a 25 and 30-year-old, 31-year-old, they still need us.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: They'll always need us, but they but parents have to start parenting again and feel that level of confidence that they can do it.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: They really can.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: They should not be afraid.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Our kids need us.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: They do.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Getting them unstuck from the stubborn to what's possible because we realize that wasn't okay.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: We did what we did at that time.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: We're realizing that's not so healthy.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And here's how we're going to reposition, reframe the dance.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: And the same fear that the parents have, that kid is hesitant.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Our kids are they're they're hiding away in their rooms because they're afraid of the world.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: So that's all it is.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: They might come out of their room and screaming and yelling and slamming doors, but at the end of the day, they're just afraid because it's unknown for them.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: And that that causes their anxiety.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: But one little baby step at a time.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's how that's how they're going to make the change.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And what I'll say too is when we have the limits on the screens, what happens is we have a human that comes out.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see sunlight.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: They rub their eyes, they're more engaged on board, they brainstorm more.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll do game night once a week.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: It's a different level of engagement because they're now participating, they're out of the darkness.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: This has been an honest conversation, one I think that we had to have.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: And I think what parents need to hear.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, most importantly, I want parents to know that they're not alone.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, they also need a little bit of tough love, but most importantly, they need hope.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And I think this conversation delivered all of that.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: So I want to thank you so much for being here.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: I just want you to know that you're welcome back anytime.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Anytime.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: This has been very enjoyable.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: And I hope parents take this and realize that hope will translate into good outcomes.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Just keep working at it.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: We'll end on that.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: We'll end on that.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: All right, we'll talk soon.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: Bye.