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Who’s the Next All Blacks Coach? JK & Victor Debate! (Special Episode) · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  The moment I saw the article of Audi Sabia not being very happy, I knew there's going to be trouble.
• 0:07
  I don't think it was a player-led revolt, but if the science came back that
• 0:12
  it wasn't working then two years out for the World Cup. You need to move I guess.
• 0:17
  74% win record. Rossi is the best coach of all time in South Africa and he's standing on 75%.
• 0:24
  I mean who's the next all-black coach going to be? So nice of you to make a tiny brown available
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  victor. The one thing I can tell you is you won't have
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  Tony Brown. I heard Rossi applied for the job. Victor I don't know if you heard that.
• 0:40
  He's probably the only one that can save New Zealand back there at the moment, so...
• 0:44
  Welcome back to Rivals for 2026 and a little bit happened while we've been holiday JK.
• 0:58
  Yeah well it was a pretty hectic month I guess for the coaching staff and Razer you know like
• 1:07
  a review. Normally they do an internal review. I think what happened with David Kirk and
• 1:13
  Charge decided to change that process and get an external review. So Don Tricker who is
• 1:22
  like an amazing high-performance man. I think he's with the Padres in America but he used to be
• 1:27
  with us. Sort of put the structure together and then David Kirk and Kevin Miyalamo sort of ran it.
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  So yeah I mean the surprise just a just a massive surprise for everybody really. I think
• 1:41
  a review like that while it must have been harsh. What came out of it was if Razer has lost the
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  changing room and we probably need to talk Victor about what losing the changing room means
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  because it's a big term right. Where the David Kirk would make the big decision to check to Razer
• 2:03
  about you know not doing the job anymore. I mean the first thing for me is while I can be pretty
• 2:11
  critical at times I think that you know the human fact is pretty tough. I mean Razer put everything
• 2:18
  into it. There'll be everyone coming out now and saying you know a bit like when when you
• 2:24
  when you vote for someone you don't like and you say you didn't vote for them you know. I was in
• 2:28
  favor of Razer. I wasn't a fan of how it happened but I was in favor. I thought he'd bring
• 2:36
  excitement and that sort of stuff so I feel feel for them out but you know I don't know how you
• 2:44
  read it from overseas Victor but for us it was sort of you know a pretty big call but if the
• 2:49
  science came back that it wasn't working then two years out from the World Cup you need to move
• 2:56
  I guess. Yeah I think from all of us in South Africa we didn't expect it and I mean there's
• 3:04
  no one with a bit of record in super rugby then Razer. The amount of trophies that these one
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  just show the quality of coach it is and we spoke about it in the series while we were going
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  on I don't think you'll ever get a rugby team dominate World Rack Bid like the All Black
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  Stead for 15 20 years. I mean I went after you record fired I mean 74% when record
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  Razer is the best coach of all time in South Africa and he's standing on 75%. So
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  I'm pretty hard on him but yeah the moment I saw the article of Audi Savia not being very happy
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  with Razer I knew this is going to be trouble I mean I'm obviously a well respected rugby player
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  all across the world especially a New Zealand and yeah it takes a lot of a senior player to come out
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  and almost speak up against the coach especially a guy like Audi he's not an arrogant guy he's
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  a very down to earth guy and I think the All Blacks mean a lot to him so we don't know what happened
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  there but after I saw that article I actually knew that will probably be the end of Razer.
• 4:27
  Yeah I spoke to you know some people in and around the organisation and they said it was the
• 4:35
  most thorough sort of process they've ever been through and I don't think it was a player-led
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  revolt you know it didn't it didn't have that connotation to it is from from what I've learned
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  so the questions are around game plan the questions were around team culture the questions were
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  around the whole environment I think so you know no one felt that it was actually a you know sort of
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  fatter complete type of survey it was actually done properly so you know once again I feel
• 5:18
  for the whole crew you know it's not a good time but I think looking forward you know I heard
• 5:24
  Russy applied for the job Victor I don't know if you heard that. He's probably the only one
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  that can say it in New Zealand right here at the moment so maybe you'll come you'll have to
• 5:37
  pay him a lot but yeah it's tough I mean unfortunately all these things that you mentioned
• 5:43
  game plan team culture that all start with a coach so and I mean it's interesting and maybe
• 5:50
  it's different I've seen it I mean when Hainika Meyer came into the spring book set up as well
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  he was so safe in his way how he works with the boost players and unfortunately a boost culture
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  stormed culture and even a short school too different and I think Razor coming out of that
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  crusader camp and I've got a certain way of doing things and they had a very experienced quad for
• 6:18
  the last ten fifteen years as well maybe it's just a bit difficult and some of the other guys with
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  different cultures couldn't put into that crusader's kind of culture that they used to. Can we
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  can we look forward now I mean you've ended at JK I mean who's the next all black coach gonna be
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  so nice of you to make a tiny brown available Victor. Yeah I think I really think
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  that it's down to sort of Jamie Joseph and possibly Joe Smith I don't know what Joe Smith's
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  contractual sort of obligations are to Australia I know he's finishing I just don't know when that is
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  so you know I really like Jamie I think Jamie is a really really top coach I think
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  what he's done is he's been able to actually take sides that probably the underdogs and have
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  incredible success let's not you know let's not say oh he went and coached Japan what he did with
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  Japan was amazing I mean making the playoffs of the World Cup you know and that World Cup was
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  for me amazing so I think he would be amazing if we think about a coaching team we do know that
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  you know Tony Brown is one of the best attack coaches in the world and he is a Kiwi Victor I know
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  you're probably trying to get him a passport so I love that combination I think Jamie could do it
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  without Brownie if Brownie wants to stay with South Africa and so for me it's really between
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  Jamie Joseph and Joe Smith and I don't know if Joe Smith's available and it'd probably be really
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  cool if they could both do it so I'd love to see Jamie as a head coach and then you know Joe come
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  on as one of his assistants I also think we've got Verne Cotto who's got that hard edge
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  to him you know I know that he's had a few years of the blues and he's one I don't know how long
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  he'll want to want to stay at the blues so I think there's plenty of opportunity and plenty of
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  options here I mean these coaches all around the world New Zealand coaches that's
• 8:37
  very successful one thing I must say and I don't know from the Japanese players they
• 8:44
  they weren't too happy with Jamie Joseph at the Indian Japan why that is
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  time it like he was very strict and very sitting his ways so but I mean he understands the New Zealand
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  culture he played he looks like a rugby man so it will be interesting but the one thing I can tell
• 9:04
  you you won't have Tony Brown so maybe after the World Cup you can pull him over but I think for
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  now Tony will stay with the box still the World Cup you know your loyalty to your team is very
• 9:15
  important but also your loyalty to your best mate you know you know Tony Brown and Jamie Joseph
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  very very close friends and work very closely together so you know surely surely he'll he'll look
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  at it yeah look I think you know that we we we only have sort of 10 jobs in New Zealand Victor
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  really you know maybe 20 at the most if you think about the assistance so you know if you have coach
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  super rugby if you've won a super rugby title you know where do you go you either go to the
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  all-lax or you go overseas so you know I think the combination of Jamie and Brownie is a real good
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  one you know you're getting a a couple that have worked together they know each other you know I've
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  heard that they can go to confrontation and not take it personally okay okay all my it's all nice
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  these no way contractual they will be able to let him go there's no chance russia will do that so
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  even though they might say everything I mean that's a business decision you can't have someone
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  coming to your camp and before we walk up join your greatest rivals there's no chance another name
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  that's in the max obviously someone like a Dave Rene yeah yeah I think I think you know Dave is
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  I think he was an amazing coach obviously he was one of those guys that had to leave
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  didn't have a lot of success in in Australia but that was external success when you look at it
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  how how Eddie got the job and what was happening I know the players love Dave Rene over there
• 11:04
  I thought he was they thought he was amazing this is Australian now so yeah it's whether he
• 11:10
  is keen to do it or not and whether they see that Australian perceived non-success as an issue
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  then can I throw a World Guard in here what about a guy like Ronan O'Goura that came to New Zealand to
• 11:27
  actually developed as a coach went over to LaRichelle very successful and it doesn't look like
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  he's in the run for that island job don't you think you will be someone that can come in and make
• 11:40
  a big difference well there's a couple there's a couple of world-class coaches that I think are
• 11:46
  interesting he's one although it seems to be his sideline behaviour would probably not suit us I
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  don't think I'd see him as a heat coach Victor I'd definitely see him as part of the
• 11:58
  step what I mean as an assistant coach with Jamie Jones. Yeah look I think I'm not an assistant coach
• 12:07
  yeah totally I think he's a I think that whoever does do the coaching and like I said I think
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  Jamie would be amazing I think Joe would be amazing as well I think that what Russie has done
• 12:19
  Victor although I hate to admit it is getting knowledge from other people's really really important
• 12:26
  like you said I think that to win constantly now to get up to an 85% win rate is going to be tough
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  and I think winning world cups is going to be important I also think that a guy like Sean Edwards
• 12:39
  I think is one of the best defence coaches in the world you know worked with Warren Gatland
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  now with France so I think I think as an assistant role someone like Ronan would be awesome I also
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  think that you know someone like Sean Edwards would be awesome it just to see where they are from
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  from a contractual point of view I guess that's a big step for New Zealand because we've never
• 13:02
  done that before but do you think you know I'm looking at Russie's done do you think we should be
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  looking around the world maybe not for a head coach but for our assistants yeah totally totally
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  I just think as you get all that knowledge I mean I remember when we read up
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  and Skolk Berger went over and played in Japan and they came back and they were better players
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  sometimes we so get caught in our own little bubble and we see rugby a certain way and we believe
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  that's a new way and sometimes I think Russie has done it with a spring box now for the last few
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  years sometimes it's great to get just knowledge from outside people that look at the game
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  from a different angle but you still need and that's why we are like the head coach needs to be
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  a New Zealander he needs to understand the culture and he needs to have the final say I mean even with
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  Tony I think if you look at that Australia game in the beginning of year we maybe win
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  a little bit too far away from South African DNA pull it a little bit back but I mean the impact
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  he said with a spring box is so big it's just before we go back they just you took about
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  the La Rochelle how are the South African teams going in the USA at the moment
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  now that you are seeing we're doing pretty well the champions champions cup the basic champions cup
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  we thought struggling a little bit the balls and the storm is sneaked in
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  two very tough games I mean the balls need to go to Glasgow away and there's another
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  backline coach that can make a difference from Christmas has been really good there and the storm
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  is I think needs to go play I think it's too low in my all so it's two tough games but at this
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  stage the storm is just a team I mean such as Stolz is being unbelievable in every game that he plays
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  so they probably are one team that can go very far the storm is also leading the URC they
• 15:08
  am top of the table so look like the stormers I hate to say that but looks like the stormers are
• 15:15
  the team in South Africa there's pushing for trophies at the moment Victor I heard that actually
• 15:24
  Morally of South African supporters don't give a cut mate they want to come back to Super Rugby
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  so when's that going to happen you got to come back
• 15:37
  I love Super Rugby strength versus strength like it was back in day super 12 super 14
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  the base competition in the world nothing we're close to it so I do miss it as well
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  but at this stage doesn't look like it's going to happen well hopefully the Super Rugby teams are
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  having a better preseason than UJK and looking after the bodies a little bit better than you have
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  and we've got the six nations coming up what are your picks or there you go that's a good one
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  England I'm between England and France but I'm still going for France I think at this stage
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  I'm pretty sure the reason I'm going for England is I'm pretty sure they've got France at
• 16:19
  home this year haven't they Victor I'm pretty sure that I think the last game is France
• 16:25
  England versus France in France I don't know I had to look the other day and I don't know why
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  I'm thinking it's in France but I know that's the last game of the six nations
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  yeah I think it's the last game to I think it's going to come down to that but I thought it was
• 16:37
  and Twickenham so I think that that that will be a big big factor I'm picking Scotland
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  keep to media I don't know when they're asking the opinion about Brazil or who's going to win
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  what everyone just forgotten about Ireland have they including you Riccardo did forget your own name
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  now I'll try and we couldn't make it because he's gone to
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  don't even mention Ireland well that they'll serve him right for going to what he can
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  a double w e or something what's a big bash what's that Riccardo wrestling yeah he might be
• 17:14
  on a he might be in a now he's the fittest man in the world would make a feeling exactly yeah I was
• 17:21
  getting a shirt off I don't think that is his strength in his speedo like he was on the beat with you
• 17:28
  yeah can we make a um a new year's resolution jk that we won't see you in your speedos this year
• 17:35
  I wasn't in speedos man I was in my underpants yeah that's another resolution I'd like
• 17:40
  I'll remember right that was just his undies yeah it's even worse than at speedo
• 17:45
  yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I lost a bit better in 2026 day I didn't lose a bit I won the bit
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  but I couldn't not let him go to the bully sea by himself so it was just honoring honoring my
• 17:58
  bit Riccardo something that's important to me all right well just let's wrap it up I mean
• 18:04
  you know just for my two cents worth I sometimes people forget that we talk about people when we
• 18:10
  do these comments and you know I mean you feel for Razer you feel but he's a guy who puts everything
• 18:17
  into everything he does you know you know the players were probably sort of they were asked their
• 18:26
  opinion you know that's what the reviews about it's not like they were sort of trying to get changed
• 18:32
  so you know they're in a difficult position but the decisions being made and you know time to
• 18:41
  look forward time to go and pick up Tony Brown from South Africa and then get on and win the World
• 18:47
  Cup I'm looking forward to it I agree with that Razer's a good man is a good regular man he's had
• 18:51
  lots of success I really like a man I like all their staff I agree with you Riccardo and I
• 18:59
  especially on you know on some of the formats where people comment it's important to take the
• 19:03
  human side of it and because that is rugby rugby is about sitting next to Victor rugby is about
• 19:11
  you know competitiveness with respect and so that's that's why I love doing the show because
• 19:17
  you know I've got a love hate with you know with South Africa but that's rugby we can have a
• 19:24
  well I can have a normal drink thick and have buddy Brandy and Coca whatever that shit is he drinks but
• 19:30
  we sit together and we can't lose those things the only the only thing I will say is you know
• 19:36
  we need to be careful not to head towards like football does you know and it's a leave Victor they say
• 19:43
  I wonder if the guy will get to Christmas you know because if he's not winning they're going to get
• 19:47
  rid of him so as long as we as long as we keep our core values that's important but it is a human
• 19:54
  game and the people in our game are normally you know great people it's just a results matter I guess
• 20:01
  yeah just from my side you need to be brave to be a coach and especially a head coach
• 20:08
  in world rugby but yeah Razer's one of the top coaches in the world I mean if you look at his
• 20:13
  record it's a fantastic coach I think by either one of the clubs in France or England or Japan
• 20:21
  it's going to be very happy to sign in very soon I believe right let's finish it there it's
• 20:27
  early in the morning here so I need to go over and turn my brain on so welcome back and we'll
• 20:34
  we'll get back into it for the six nations thanks guys so nice I miss you guys
• 20:40
  but be through I don't know if I missed you guys I don't know if I missed you
• 20:49
  do you think when you coach coming in four losses in South Africa do you think they'll keep in
• 20:53
  month mate I want about hey what about the tour this year man I just cannot wait for that
• 21:00
  that's why I say what if they lose four in a row will they just show you can't say we
• 21:06
  are lose four in a row coming to South Africa for four games yeah exactly it's exactly who won
• 21:15
  the last series now that's just a long time ago I cannot wait let's go gentlemen