Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Gretchen Dill | Founder of MuttRuk

Transcript

Gretchen Dill | Founder of MuttRuk · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up guys?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I am so excited to bring you guys today's episode.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: None other than Gretchen Dill, local Colorado Springs trail runner and the founder of Mutt Rock, joins the podcast.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: If you guys are unfamiliar with Mutt Rock, it is one of the leading adventure gear brands for dogs right now, or for dog lovers, if you will.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Really fun episode, really exciting conversation.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We talk all about the founding of the business.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: We talk about just kind of how to run a business, how to start something that you're passionate about, and then we talk a lot about the trail running scene and just the trail running in Colorado Springs, as well as the community itself.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: It was a really fun, exciting episode, so excited to bring you guys this one.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Gretchen's an amazing human and super inspiring.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I think you guys are going to get a lot out of this.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, hope you guys enjoy this one None other than Gretchen Dill.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we are live, gretchen Dill.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: How's your day going?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Very good, very good.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy we got to have this conversation.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: You came in.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: You know Stephen had reached out to me last week, was it last week?
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I think it was last week when we met.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: He needed a favor and you popped in to do some recording for a project you're working on and we got to talking and I was like you should really come on my podcast.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: You, you should really come on my podcast.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: You have a really cool business.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thanks.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks for the interest in it and it's really an honor to be on the show.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: That's super cool.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Well, for those who might not know Gretchen, who is Gretchen and who is your?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: and what is your business, man?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I'm all over the place, tongue tied today.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Gosh, and that's, that's a, that's a deep question, it's a loaded question.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll start with talking a bit about the business.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: So Mutt Ruck is the name of the company.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: It's a play on words, mutt M-U-T-T-R-U-K, kind of like rucksack.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: And about five years ago, a bit about myself I loved outdoors, I love hiking.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: A bit about myself I love the outdoors, I love hiking.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I was never a big camper until college, but just like anything outdoors, I love the outdoors.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And so when I got my first dog in college, that just really pushed me outdoors to be able to give him the exercise that he needed, and so I became more of an avid runner, hiker, basically because I loved it and my dogs loved it.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Um, and then so that led me to in 2019, um, hiking and running with my dogs a lot, um, encountering needs that I just felt like gear didn't cater to, specifically if you're going to be out on the trail with your dog.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: And so I had some brainstorms and I just kind of was like you know what I'm passionate about this, that I want to go for it.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: And so the company essentially launched on Kickstarter with a day pack a 14 liter day pack and kind of inspired a little bit of a mutt in itself.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Like the pack itself, it was inspired by like ultra running vests that you see storage up front.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: That was kind of like a very new steady there feature to see, like chest storage on a backpack, and then bigger back like bigger pockets that you would see like on backpacking backpack it excuse me, backpacking backpacks, backpack it, excuse me, backpacking backpacks.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of backwards, but you didn't really often see that on smaller packs, and so all those features really made it a lot more handy to be out on the trail with your dog, and so, yeah, that's where Mott Rock came from, and I've just kind of been riding the Mott Rock wave, having fun with it for the last five years.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: So Wow, so five years, so 2019,.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: You started it, yes, okay.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it officially took to Kickstarter May of 2019.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Super cool, were you?
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know like I find myself as not just a creator, but also as an entrepreneur.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: One of the things that drives me to want to grow, for instance, like this podcast is a great example is one passion.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: And two, I work at the corporate life and I fucking hate it.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Excuse my French, but like, did you find yourself like doing the corporate grind at all or anything like that?
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Did that help pivot you?
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Or were you just freshly an entrepreneur and just looking for some creative outlet?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Like what really spurred that?
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: No, that, yeah, that's actually a great question because it did, it was a big pivot.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: So I was actually a graphic designer for 12 years, so eight to five, monday through Friday, desk job.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I loved it because it was creative and it was honestly like a wonderful atmosphere, small company, family feel.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: But it kind of was dissolving at the same time because it was a small company, our founder president was kind of reaching retirement and it was like dissolving at the same time that these ideas were coming up to head and so it really was just like a perfect opportunity for me to um, just yeah, like put my nose to the grindstone and actually make something happen.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And so I did both the um eight to five and developing Mutt Ruck for probably a year and a half of overlap and then, um, after the Kickstarter launch in May, um, the next year kind of like took it full time.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Was that stressful?
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Taking that jump like, taking that leap, Like oh, we're doing this now.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it was stressful in ways, but I think there was so many other stressful parts about starting.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: The company that I had like was totally a I have no idea what I'm doing, I, and so it was just like a day by day process of asking questions, saying what do I do next?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: And so I think, like that initial like year and a half was really where that grunt work was, and so by the time I was ready to take it full time, um, it was nerve wracking but I, I had confidence in it by then.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Kind of so.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not not too bad.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: By the time, it actually was like I'm doing this.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: It's interesting to me because I met a lot of entrepreneurs and I feel like the ones that I feel like do the best are the ones that like, maybe, like you kind of get your MBA by trial by fire, just kind of figuring it out, like you don't have like the traditional or classic, like MBA education where you have these guardrails and it's like, oh cause, I have a traditional MBA education and it's like I don't know, there's these mental guardrails of what to do and what not to do, and I almost feel like if you just didn't have those, it would make you more creative and make you more open to things in a lot of ways, which I think is interesting.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: And you know, it gives you the ability to kind of like, maybe think outside the box as well.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think like so much of being an entrepreneur is like is problem solving.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: It's tough, it's fun but tough.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I think like being able to think outside the box and not necessarily being told oh, this is how you do that.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: It's more like questioning how do I do that?
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: And then figuring it out.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Now yours is interesting too, because you started with like a Kickstarter campaign, I feel like for each is it true, like, how did you do this?
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Like with each product, it would start with, like the Kickstarter, or how does that work?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So I've kind of taken the approach.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, a lot of it is just by inspiration of seeing what other people are doing.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Other companies are doing, yeah, like, there's this company, rex Specs Yep, we have them.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Their, their creativity really inspired me and then, at the same time, um, my dog actually has Pana, so like he, he needs them and they've just been a lifesaver.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: At the same time, um, I got connected with a girl on um Insta wild river.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: She was like camping a lot with their dogs and was doing a Kickstarter, um, and so it just really kind of like I was taking inspiration from those around me and it just really helped the company take on a like no, no loan, no investor interest type of approach.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I like that, yeah, so it's definitely more of like a homegrown, organic small business, but I've liked it that way just because it's very personal.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I'm'm on the front end of pretty much everything, and so by keeping the product launches on Kickstarter, yeah, I've really been able to just grow it slowly without investors, and I just like that approach.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: No, and I actually think, putting my finance hat on, I think it makes more sense as opposed to having a blanket website.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Then you have to keep track of X units sold and then you're like, oh, I have to go get to the you know the warehouse and make sure this is fulfilled.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: It just like create.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like creates a lot more headache, whereas I feel like if you sell X units ahead of time, then you could plus the investment aspect of it too.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, I don't know like I, as you scale like, it's more in your like power.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: If you will, like, you'll have the power, as opposed to like I don't know, like.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Let's say, I don't know what's a, what's a peer of yours?
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Um, what is it Roughware or somebody like that coming in?
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: and saying we're going to give you a 5 million and we're going to take 50% of your business or whatever, Right, and it's like do I really want to do that and then become a subsidiary of them?
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do that Like.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I'd rather just grow my own business and have fun with it.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it keeps it fun that way too definitely like I'm in it to.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: you know I have to have a job and make some profit, but I've been lucky in that, like I really have had an approach of I'm keeping this my passion and keeping it fun and um, from that I just think it's been like it's been a really positive atmosphere and good thing for everyone involved.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that super cool.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Now, how many employees you have?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Is it just you?
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: And so just me.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: But I do like outsource, so I obviously work heavily with Steven.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: He does great video photography work for me.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: And yeah, he's awesome, yeah, shout out, explore with media, and then I have like a team of manufacturers that I work with and so that is like a huge team.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: So I it's essentially like I'm connected with a company in Seattle that then has vetted relationships with a lot of manufacturing companies and so that way I'm able to prototype and kind of just like put on my creative hat and then that's that's where, like, the grindstone comes in in terms of like, because I'm connected with these amazing manufacturing teams.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of them actually do make like Osprey backpacks and roughware, so very high quality, um, vetted manufacturing teams that have big minimums for a small business, and so that's where, like that's where, kickstarter comes in so that I can reach those minimums.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's, it's like I said.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's, it's sustainable, I think that's a smart way to grow.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, it's just interesting to me because I don't know.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I uh people when they see a product let's say you're shopping at REI, right, and you see a product like I don't think people put two and two together I'm like what goes into, like like the whole process getting that from the idea to REI for them to see it, you know oh yeah, yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot and I'm sure when you have like a lot of employees, you can definitely like fast track it a lot more than what I'm doing.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, there there's it's.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: It's been a very big learning experience in terms of what goes into the like, the product space of like, yeah, outdoor gear, yeah, it's very interesting.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about the product lineup, like what, uh, what would you offer?
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: So, um, the very first product is the uh Phoenix 14 backpack.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a 14 liter backpack.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: That's great for, you know, day hikes and, like I mentioned before, it has chest integrated storage so that you can just like access your things right up front, have treats in your big old pockets on a smaller backpack.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And then next in the lineup is the sidekick hic, excuse me, sidekick hit pack.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Um, and it's essentially like a fanny pack on steroids, but it's gonna have like all the things like a leash clip, waste bag dispenser, a liner so that you can just like stuff, treats directly in there.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: All the good things for the dog, um, dog lovers out there.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Um, and it's been fun to see, like, the resurgence of the fanny pack over the last five years.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Everybody's wearing them.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I even saw Joe Rogan wearing a fanny pack the other day.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally Like yeah, the crossbody, like it's just such a convenient piece of gear Like I go nowhere without mine.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So yeah, the sidekick is literally a sidekick.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: That's the sidekick you have right there.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I you showed me and I like held it, like it's very durable material, like it's well made it, the things legit yeah.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wanted to strive for like quality over you know, something that felt like you could have it for the next 1020 years of your life.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: And then the next in the lineup was actually just like a simplified treat pouch.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I felt like that's a necessity for a lot of dog lovers out there, so that's very popular.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And then just recently I launched the Pacer waist belt and it's kind of an inspired running belt, just because I felt like when I was out running with my dogs, um, it was the same situation where I I needed a couple extra little things to access, um, my dog's stuff, you know, like having treats readily available, um, and you know, you know different things like that, like a leash connection, a hands-free leash connection.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: So I felt like you could take a simplified running belt, um, which I love running in, and then make it dog friendly.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so the.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: So the Pacer waist belt is the new product.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: And then I have a big product in line waiting for its Kickstarter launch.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: It's essentially a backpacking backpack.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: So it's going to be from 30 liters, expandable to 48, kind of do it, it all backpack.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So so cool.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Have you thought at all about like cause?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: You're a runner too, and we'll talk about this um ultra running, trail running, all that but like have you thought about maybe like looking into like the pack space too, like the like the running pack space?
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: You know I haven't yet, but just because I have such a singular focus on like wanting to keep Mutt Ruck in that niche of dog lovers, like adventure packs for dog lovers.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: So I have, like other ideas in terms of, like, paddle boarding.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Hopefully that doesn't stay, or hopefully that's not just a fad, because I think there would be a really cool like.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: No, it's been around a while.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like there could be a really like cool paddle boarding pack, um, just like all the adventures, and so, in terms of, yeah, like running vests, I just whenever I see a product that's like amazing already, I'm not necessarily as inspired that's smart.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: That's smart yeah but when I see something lacking, that's like not even in the sphere of gear, that's kind of where I'm like hey Mutt Rock can step in for the dog lovers that don't have this product yet.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I haven't been inspired yet for like well and especially like dog backpacks, like a backpack that goes on your dog.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: People have asked me a lot about that because the brand name Mt rock just kind of like falls into place for that.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: But I feel like there's so many brands out there that already create amazing backpacks for dogs and I feel like there's so many brands that create amazing like running vests.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's an interesting question.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: No, I like the reason.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I actually really like your answer to it.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: And the reason I'll say that is because, like I don't know very smart entrepreneurial mind, because you see where there's a need and then attack it from there, whereas, like I feel like a lot of people just will you know, well, I can make this better, or I can try this, do this or that and the other, and it's already a saturated market which is a hard place to enter.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: You know so no, that's cool.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I like that's.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Let's talk running.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So you are a trail runner, yes, and you've done some races this year.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: You're pretty heavily involved in the sport.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: What do you like?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: What do you not like?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: What are you doing these days with it?
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Well, so I'm pretty new to trail running.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I got into running in high school when I was recruited by my hom homeroom teacher.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Like they were trying to put together the cross country tree team, um, and so that's kind of like where running started for me and I was really just like a cross country, like 5k road runner type up until just a few years ago.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: And, um, yeah, the world of trail running and like running with groups and friends is just like it's opened a whole new world of fun and, um, so, yeah, just this last year, it's kind of like taken to the races where, like signing up for fun races around town, um, and yeah, so like I, I really like I just enjoy challenging myself, I guess that way, in terms of finding that like circle of fun but also competitive, um, so, yeah, the races have been really fun in terms of like continually pushing me to find like what's next.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Um, so I've steadily been increasing my distance and the runners that I'm surrounded by, they're all like the crazy ultra runners.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: The runners that I'm surrounded by, they're all like the crazy ultra runners.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so I'm like set up for my first ultra next spring.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, Um what are you running?
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: The black Canyon ultra.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, put on my air Viper in.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Arizona.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: So I'm really excited about it.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just kind of been like a, a, a growing of like let's add distance.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Let's add distance.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: See what you're capable of.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: So that's super cool.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I mean it's just kind of been like a growing of, like let's add distance, let's add distance, see what you're capable of.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: That's super cool.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I mean it's the way to do it.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: It's like I don't know, it's a great entry point to the sport.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: It's so inclusive, like anybody could do it, and it's so much fun and you get all the adventure, yeah, and it's like a big eating contest, like that's the way I look at it.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Like ultras not that I run a lot of ultra, I really don't.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I think I run one ultra but it's like a big eating contest where you just go from aid station, aid station and just keep fueling it's, yes, it's amazing.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, the nutrition I've learned like is very key.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: I was the like, I was the runner who would go out and like do a half with like no water, no food, no anything, you know, just like that's still me, yeah, well, well, yes, yeah, no, yeah, yeah.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: In the, in the sub ultra world.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: You're out there raising like.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: You're not taking time to like, unless you're David Roche and you can throw down a gel and like 0.2 seconds, but no, yeah, there's an element to like fueling that I've really just learned about the last six months, even yeah, yeah.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: It's cool to be new at something too, like I, I, I don't know.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: That's one of the things I love so much about the sport is that like, even though I've been around it for a little while now is like I'm constantly learning.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: There's so much you could do with your training.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: There's so much you could do to improve, constantly seeing improvements.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And then there's like all these little puzzle pieces like nutrition is one, and then you know sleep and recovery.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: There's like so much that goes into it that makes it like I don't know, just like kind of addicting in a lot of ways oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so much and then, but like just the element of fun that's always there oh, yeah, yeah, I think that's what keeps us coming back the fun is the.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: It's funny I just had joe on and I we talked about this like, and it was one of the interesting questions that I was dying to ask him was like do you still have fun?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Like when you got to put food on the table for your family, when you got to do this, you got to do that, and it's like you have to perform it the highest level of your sport.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like, do you have fun doing this?
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And like to hear out of him that he still has fun.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Like just inspires me and I hopefully inspires others, others that like that's that's the whole point of the sport is to like it's the best sport in the world.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: You know, just have fun doing it.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, type two fun, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Black canine, you're doing the 50 K, right?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, all right.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: So they just changed it from the 60 K to the 50 K, I think this year.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: So that'll be that's like a giant party.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: It's an amazing race.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I've heard, like I've never heard, one person say anything bad about that race yeah.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: This is all kind of like new to me.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Um, like, I've been doing Mad Moose runs around town.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: I love them, they're so fun.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, this is, I think, going to be like one of the more, um, competitive runs that I jump in and jump in on.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like the, the crew that I know going down there the Castle Rock run club, they're just amazing people, such fun people.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: So I can imagine that, yeah, it's just going to be.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Is that the shall?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: boys running that or yeah, yeah.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Green and, uh, Graham, what's his name?
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Sorry.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Graham.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Graham.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: That's it, sorry.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Sorry, graham.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: We've talked actually before, graham and I yeah it's, it's a good, it's a good group of people, man Like you know, that castle rock contingents is legit, so I can have.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I can have them on the podcast at some point in time.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a fun group.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: That's fun, yeah, and that's like I mean, that's such a big race too, so you're, you're in for it, like that's the uh.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: The reason I say that is cause, like I think about like what's the best one of the sport?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Um, that kind of just like shows you like what the sport has to offer and I think that's like one of the best ones that's more accessible to everybody because, like western states and things like that on the ultra end are like oh gosh, um, well, it's, it's hard to get, it's impossible to get into that race, um, and other races like, um, you know, hard rock and stuff like that hard to get into, but, like back black canyon, anybody can sign up and it's your.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a qualifying race for western states, the 100k, and it's a golden ticket race.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So, and then the 50k is like kind of that, doled down a little bit, but just just as fun, plus it's at sea level, which is dope I know I I want to take your confidence in saying that like, hey, this is going to be easy.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: It's at sea level, so I'm going to be channeling that on race day.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, you'll crush it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It's going to be well it's at sea level.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to be channeling that on race day.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, you'll crush it, it's going to be.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's net.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know if the 50k is still net downhill, if they change it at all, but to my best of my knowledge, because my, my coach ran it last year, he won it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Shout out to eli oh, wow um, but I've heard it's kind of like half pipe style where you're going like up and down, up and down so they're you know yeahps and downs throughout the whole, but maybe not, maybe not downhill, which is still like a positive way to think about it.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Think about it as all downhill running, you gotta run, you gotta do.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Uh, one of the places that I've been told from people that have performed really well there is, like the red rocks Canyon open space.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: It's a great place to train for it.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah or garden, the garden to gardens a little, maybe a little techier than it.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've heard also that the rate that that course is like sneaky technical and sections.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: We have some family in Arizona and so we've gone down to run like the Santan regional park and oh my gosh, yeah, they've got some like sharp shaley rocks that are going to like come at you yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that are gonna like come at you interesting.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've never ran in arizona.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I like I'm I, I thinking about reaching out to a friend to possibly go down there to pace for the 100k just to see what it's like.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, um really fun.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Trails like it's such a interesting experience, like running in the desert.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: You like just seeing cactus like no, like you're totally exposed, like it's.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: It's just a very like otherworldly feeling.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Like running through the desert it's just super fun.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, running among cactus it's fun the desert's crazy.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Last year was wild because like um well, I know, is the 50k on a sunday.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: This year again or I believe the 50k is on saturday so it's on the oh the hundred is on Sunday.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's swapped.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Okay Cause I think it was the inverse last year, where it was the hundred K on Saturday.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not a hundred percent.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I just remember there being snow last year.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, crazy yeah.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like they, I think they actually had to delay it because of snow twice, I think of snow twice I think, and then it still warmed up quite a bit.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, yeah, it's definitely it's gonna be, you have to have a little bit of heat training under your belt.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, shout out to jacob scrabba, good buddy of mine.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: He uh had a great performance last year but he came on the podcast to tell me all about the uh just like how it mentally got to him and everybody like having to like get delayed twice and it's like do I take another gel now?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Do I not like?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: What do I do?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Do I eat breakfast again?
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Like yeah what is this, you know?
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So hopefully it's nice and toasty out there.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah no hopefully it's a nice like 50 degrees all day you're gonna suffer a little bit?
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: No, yeah yeah, you don't sign up for an ultra.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Not expecting to suffer, that's true, are you competitive?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I would say so yeah, I mean like I'm competitive for fun.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I don't take it too seriously, but when I'm out there like racing I'm going to push myself Like I'm one of those that.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Like in cross country.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: You know, if I'm neck and neck with a runner, like I can't even let, like I'm the type of person I can't let someone even pass me on a hike because, like like, for instance, if the wife and I are just like I don't usually really hike walk in.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, rose, we gotta, we gotta walk a little faster, like yeah, this person cannot happen.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what are we doing right now?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: My brother, my brother, is like that.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: My brother and his wife are like that.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: They are so competitive Like he, um, he hates being passed.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: So, even though he's like a very fast runner, he will kind of like set himself back in the pack, um, and then, because he's more inspired having rabbits to chase than being a rabbit, that's fair.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: So, it's fair.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: It takes a special mentality to sit in front of the race and pray to your god, so when no one catches you, yeah, yeah, that's a tough spot to be, yeah, I mean, that's the other fun part about races is like no matter where you're at and running, it challenges you and it's just like such an amazing accomplishment.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Like the people coming in first and the people coming in last like to me, they are equally inspiring.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Like they're out there doing it.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, and like I think the people I mean depends on the type of race, depends on the type of thing, like what you're doing, but, like you know some of these ultras, it's always interesting to me that, like man, some of these people go spend 24 to 48 hours on some of these races and it's like, oh my gosh, like I I could not stay out there that long.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I don't have the chops to do that.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the mental fortitude for the long ones is like it's insane, because I've actually crewed.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I've crewed for the Leadville before and just being on the crew is like exhausting.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It's intense, right.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: This is a long amount of time and those runners are out there for that whole time.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: It's insane.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, like I, I definitely have an appreciation for as, as you call it, the sub ultra.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Like those are, those are fun races.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I tell people like I like to hurt really bad for like an hour and a half tops and then it's over, I can go have my coffee at breakfast, chill, not that bad, whereas, like I'd rather that than like the dull pain, like you know, and it depends, it depends on the type of race you're doing.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: But like the dull pain that lasts for like 10 miles, 15 miles, I have no interest in that, you know, because it's like you feel great for the first 10 to 15 miles and then then you start to hurt and it's like, oh no yeah, yeah, yeah, there's such a difference in terms of what to expect, like am I going to be like redlining, or am I just going to be grinding?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: It's true, We'll get you.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: We'll get you doing more sub ultra stuff.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to, I'm going to recruit.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I fortunately uh it's last sportiva my sponsor did uh, we're sponsoring the Cirque series this year, all the circ races.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna be putting up the, the bat signal to try to get as many friends out there to do and what are those?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: races.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: So it's like a think of it as like a.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: So there's the classic mountain classic distance, which is like six to nine miles, with usually like two thousand to three thousand, sometimes four thousand feet of vertical gain.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Wow, and they're super fast.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Um, a lot of times it's up over a mountain and down.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Um, the ones in utah are great.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: We have one in a basin hopefully might get more uh, in colorado, but you know there's, they're all over the country.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: They just put another one in washington.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Uh, really fun, yeah, very cool.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: So highly recommend.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah very cool.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did the.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: It sounds like it's maybe in line um, but the adidas terex 10 K at the GoPro games.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Yep Similar.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, similar in terms of like having challenging vert.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: That was, yeah, like the most, like one of the most challenging races that I've gone out and done.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Joe Gray was actually there.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: It was like that's the fun part about it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, like the GoPro games is so fun in that aspect where some of these races you show up and it's like totally novice and then like you've got the pros, it's fun.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: It is crazy that, like we are one of the few sports still that is like accessible to everyone.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I love that because, like, I think part of what makes our sport great and this is more from I don't want to call it the elite side, but more from a competitive like person I love the idea that, like, anybody can step up on any day and try to win the race Right.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're Joe Gray, I mean, anybody can go give you a hard time, right, and it's more of um, I don't know Whereas, like, there's a lot of sports, like a triathlon, for example, it's elite races only Right and they're example, it's elite races only right and they break it up and even, like, on the higher end of the sport, like your utmb's and stuff like that, they have your fields of elites, which is fine, I think it's whatever.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: But, like, I like to see you know where other people can kind of stack up against these people and, uh, you know, maybe give someone a hard day or maybe even win the race.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: You know, like utmb, this year we had a guy um, was it simone, simon um boulevard, I think that was his name like, yes, he's an elite runner, but he was not a sponsored athlete by any means and goes and just beats the pants off of everybody yeah, I think super cool recently so the shaw boys went down and actually david was part of it.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: The javelin 100 oh yeah, and there was this um young lady that like I think it was literally her first ultra and she like finished in like either the top 10 or maybe even like like in the top three podium I think she podiumed.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I can't remember her name, but I think you're right.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: It's see, but this is the thing.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: This is why I don't want ever our sport to ever change, because if we do change, to make it where it's like elites only versus like non, like that performance would have never happened, right, and then this girl would never potentially be getting a sponsor or that.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: That was probably a life-changing experience for her.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I think so much of running is just it's about challenging yourself yeah and so it's like, it's that accessibility to like anyone is allowed to go challenge themselves, yeah, yeah.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is David Roche not like he's a wild boy?
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: That is, oh my gosh.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I love his podcast.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I got to get him.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try to get him on at some point, but he is so interesting, like I love how he brings science to everything, like yeah it's like I'm going to science the shit out of this and he makes it work and I'm like wow.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the performances I just I mean just getting into trail running more heavily this year.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I was like following his runs at the Leadville and Javelina and yeah, just like learning about like carb loading and all that.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: It's just so interesting.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: But it's also like yeah, like what?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: What are we actually capable of?
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: And just that's like the fun challenge in it.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: It's like when you're properly fueled and you know what you're doing and you give yourself a little bit of you know, I shouldn't say a little bit of training, but if you're going at it right with training fueling, like it's just it's cool to see what potential is out there.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do you work with a coach by any chance?
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: or no, no, no, okay, okay, I like it.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: You know, it's different strokes for different folks, different different things, like I.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I like don't recommend it for everybody because unless, like you have a super rigid schedule to like do certain things, it can be like, it can be tough.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: So yeah, well, and I feel like I just getting more into the race scene this year like I have.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not like you were saying.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: There's like a different edge of competitiveness to everyone.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And so, like, when I'm out there, like on race day, I love to be competitive, but like I feel like I'm not good enough to be like out there winning things.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Um, like I have good finishes, but I'm not, like I'm not going to be like a, a podium runner.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, I just haven't felt like I needed a coach but, yeah, there's always room for improvement too, so there's oh and you know what the thing is too is like I mean, people are going to disagree with me on this, but like, especially when it comes to ultra, yeah, Like David.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: That's a great example.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: David's got to figure it out, but David's at the very top of the sport, like to your normal, like mid to back, even like back of the front pack runner, like nobody has it figured out.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Like there's no, there's no.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, like you could, you could debate aerobic, like your different zones and stuff like that.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: But I still think, from a come ultra perspective, like different things works and different things don't, like you look at utmb is a great example this year, especially with fuelinging.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Everybody blew up in the front of you know, the front of the race, um, so I I just think that no one actually has it figured out.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I think the sub ultra is a little bit different, where you can look at more like your track Um and maybe your cross country runners, and probably take some from that Um, it's a little more crossover cause it's a shorter race, you don't have to really factor in nutrition and stuff like that.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: But you know, and obviously it's more anaerobic, but on the ultra side, like that one don't let anybody tell you they got to figure it out because they don't.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, it's cool.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: It's a wild like in the desert for 31 miles and just hope for the best.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So are you from Colorado?
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, are you really?
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, grew up in Littleton.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to school up at CSU and then made my way, made my way down South to Colorado Springs.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I've always been in Colorado.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: How do you like the Springs?
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I just love the train here.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Like there's so much more, like it's just like that mountainous train, pine trees, trails, um I mean Fort Collins is like such a cute fun town, but I love the Springs for its train.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's definitely it's grown on us, like when we moved here four or five years ago and the idea was always well, let's, you know, we were hesitant to buy, we weren't really sure, we considered Durango and like places like that.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: And then you know, like I don't know, like we just really grew up, grew on me and Rose, like we decided pretty recently to like stay here for at least a while.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm very happy with that.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: The open, the open space, that well kind of the all of Colorado has, um, like it's so crazy to me when you like look at a map and see like the national parks and open space and national forest in particular, that like the West has, it's just like it's such a treasure and so like to have Coloradoado springs like right next to pike national forest and so many like trails and open space, like that's such an important part of life, that yeah, the springs, the springs is awesome, that it offers that it's unique it's.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the crazy thing is, too, is like I feel like I just had a pocket I think it was emily short I was talking to because we were joking around about sometimes.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I'll tell people I'm from like I live in the springs and they Springs and they're like they don't really get it.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Like you know, I don't know, Maybe I don't know, Maybe the Springs is like a stigma to it or something, but like dude, I think a baby Denver or what I don't know, I don't know, but like I don't think people realize, like we have some of the best, I shouldn't say this on a oh dude, this place blows it out of the water.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: You know, hopefully that didn't just raise housing prices in colorado.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Springs for saying that, but I don't know, you know it's I think, yeah, no, there's.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: There's been such a movement of people coming to colorado or leaving colorado.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I don't.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: One podcast isn't going to make the home prices right now go up hopefully not stay away.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: It's crazy, but yeah, we have some so much good access here.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Do you ever think maybe like the ascent or the marathon, like Pike's peak, would be something you'd be interested in?
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, I think.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: So I actually like was starting to follow the ascent and the marathon this year.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, I think I I want to go for the ascent, I want to try for that.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I think the marathon, um, I'm going to see how I do in Arizona to see, like, okay, how did 31 feel?
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Cause the longest trail that I've done was the crested Butte, 35 K Um.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: So you know, just a few miles shy of 26,.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: But I think jumping in like the Pikes Peak marathon for your first trail marathon, that'd be like whoa it's a big yeah, it's a hard race.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but, but the ascent just seems like so fun and challenging and um, but yeah, that whole, that whole series just seems very cool it is neat.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's, it's unique, it's more, it's growing on me.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: One of these years I think I'm gonna do it.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I've been like hesitant, like, oh, if I mess up, mess up in a big way, it's kind of uh, it's kind of intimidating.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I don't know, but it is such an iconic race I don't know.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I ask everybody about it because we you know, we covered it this year with the podcast.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did a lot with it and it's I don't know.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Know, it's like something.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: It's very um, I think we could do more in the community to get more people out there cheering people on and like doing more with it.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I think that cause, you know, now the golden trail series isn't with it, like I don't know, I think it's going to be like one of the next projects is like how do we deploy more of the community to like get behind this race?
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: and make it bigger than it should.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it could be a big thing.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually was like seeing like some of the vendors that were like part of the event and I was like, oh, hey, maroc should be there.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, oh yeah, especially with all the dog people, oh my.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: God.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the other fun part about Colorado Springs.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: We're very dog friendly.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: We are so dog friendly.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, my dogs.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: You know it was crazy.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I was in um.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: You know it was crazy.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I was in um.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I went, uh, to race one of the Cirque series races this summer and I and I get why they did it, but I was in, I think it was in little and big Cottonwood Canyon and I didn't realize they don't allow dogs in in Utah in little and big Cottonwood Canyon because it's a drainage for, I guess, for the water, for salt Lake.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: But it's crazy Cause I'm like all right, if I lived here, what the hell am I gonna do with my dogs?
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Like take, obviously, like in Colorado, I take them all over the place with me.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's one of the.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a crazy thing that like not crazy, but it's kind of wild that you know, in certain areas you can't really bring your dogs.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that actually reminds me of that was a big inspiration behind Mutt Rock as well, um, because so Palmer Lake, um has some amazing trails up behind it, but they actually closed off entirely to dogs.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I think they've been closed off to dogs.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: It's been a while.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: It's been a while now.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: But a lot of that was because people were leaving waste behind different things like that.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: So I was like there's got to be better solutions that make it easier to pack out and be a good trail steward.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: When you have your dog with you Cause to have that trail shut down.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I was using it heavily with my dogs.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I may or may not have gotten yelled at on that trail with my dogs.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I feel like 10, 20 years ago it was like easier to like be naive about what was appropriate.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: But now there's so many people coming to Colorado that you'll have, you know, instead of like two or three people out with their dogs, you'll have like 50.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: And so it becomes more of an issue if those 50 people are leaving their dogs waste behind.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so that was kind of a big inspiration when I had like a favorite trail in our backyard shut down like saying no more dogs.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: It was oh what come on, I love palmer, like that's a great place yeah did a we live monument obviously.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So like I did a ton of my training for a lot of my races there, um yeah, yeah, that's some incline.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I literally every day.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I'd go run up that the reservoir trail um the one that doesn't allow dogs yeah chatak was cool too shock was dope.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: There's a lot herman's fun but, yeah, some good spots back there.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, palmer lake's cool.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that that was what, um, you know, kind of brought that on for some of the stuff can you talk about, because one of the things I really liked was and I got turned on to mutt rock from some of the photos of sean um, oh, yeah, yeah do.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about like the waist leash and all that stuff Like with like like the specifics behind like that product.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um, it's going to be like a basic, elastic, comfortable running belt, um, but I really wanted so.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: My dog she's just like I feel like a lot of dog owners you'll hear that word kind of thrown around like reactive, but I feel like a lot of dog owners struggle with it where their dog sees another dog and just like wants to lunge and bark or, um, you know, just has something that they're uncomfortable with, and so having treats readily on you is just like so key to keep things going smoothly and not have a run just turn absolutely chaotic um.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: And so the running belt has like very quick access pockets where, like if you were just out on a run, like it's where you would stuff a gel.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Um, but when I'm with my dogs it's their energy, so like I stuffed my treats in there and that's just like super quick access.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: So it's got a couple extra little pockets that are just going to make it easier for when you're out with your dogs.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And then it's got um handy D rings so that um you can attach.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Essentially they call it in the in the dog world it's joring, so anything where, like your dog is pulling you um like skid joring is like if you're out on cross country skis and you have them out in front of you, or like running um cane across is like huge it's.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: It's becoming huge um more overseas like kind of your your thing.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, so cane across.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: So this is kind of like a more simplified version than like the competitive cane across.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: But if you're out running with your dog and you want to be hands-free, it has that nice little drawing line that you can hook a leash to um go hands-free, and so yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Line that you can hook a leash to um go hands-free, and so yeah, I just wanted it to be like a simplified, comfy, accessible running belt for dog owners super cool.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to try it.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for you to try it now.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: It's a very well thought of product as well.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: It's one of the things I like really.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I like that like there's a lot of intent and like the like, the product design, like it was very well thought through.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: So very cool, thanks.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: So what do you I'm kind of curious about like the future, like well, like do you like, do you want to scale this thing?
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Like, what do you plan for for doing this?
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I mean I, I want to scale it to keep it successful like I, I in some ways, I feel like I'm holding it back just because my um knowledge base is not where it should be in terms of, like getting into stores and like marketing, like you were saying earlier, like as an entrepreneur, you kind of have to wear all of the hats, um and so, in that regard, like I would love, I think the gear is just absolutely amazing and has the quality to like be an REI, be in shields, um, but it's just kind of like, how do I do that?
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Um and so, but yeah, like I, I think that's kind of the next, that's my next hurdle, that's my next challenge of just like, how do I scale this to get into stores?
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Because I think the gear is something that people should have.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I love it, so yeah, I love it.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: We got to get you in touch with a buyer then.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I guess that's how it would work.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I have no idea.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, I'm just throwing ideas out there.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you get out.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I think, like there's like Outdoor Retailer is a big show that you can go to, there's re like outdoor retailer is a big show that you can go to.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Um, there's like trade shows that you can go to to meet buyers, um.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: But I feel like it's I'm I've kind of put myself in this weird niche where it's like hey, this gear doesn't exist, so I'm gonna make it.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: But I'm now almost in this niche of like, okay, I could be in a local pet store, but I could also be in Shields.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: All right, yeah, big time.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: But so in terms of like, okay, do I go to SuperZoo in Florida for the pets or do I go to outdoor retailer, um, for my outdoor gear?
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of where like, uh, I've, I've hit this conundrum of like a niche that carries into two spaces of outdoor gear, um, but in the meantime it's like it's been a profitable business and like just slowly organically growing and so, and yeah, I don't like I don't have the, I guess I don't have enough motivation to like change it just yet.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: But I have people tell me I need to go on shark tank and I'm like uh you got to sell to one of those people and it's like it's cool, but like I mean I think it's you don't have to sell to them, but like it's good marketing too if you could get on.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Cause.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I feel like the business is unique enough and like that would be a cool thing, like I feel like they might like eat that up like pun intended, shark Tank.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: So one of the things we did talk about before was like the marketing hat, like that's going to be, cause I feel like for the business, like, yes, you make a really interesting product, it's very cool, very durable, but the like the marketing has got to be really hard, because I feel like you're competing with all of these like somewhat pure brands that have like an Instagram team just to do that.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Right, what has that been like trying to learn?
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Like oh, I got to make this real.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: I got to do this Cause I I mean I could tell you for the like the podcast.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Like I'm like asking Steven all the time.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like taking pointers from other people, cause I hate Instagram and I hate having to post about it.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: You know honestly, taking pointers from other people, I would say is like key.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: I think that's kind of that's been my approach.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: It's funny because when I was a graphic designer, I had my like LinkedIn profile and I didn't go to school for social media at all, but, like people kept endorsing me as, like, a social media expert.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like no, no, I'm not Like I didn't go to school for this expert.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm like no, no, I'm not like I didn't go to school for this.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: But I guess, like in today's day and world, today's day, you just you kind of have to do it, Um.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: but so looking at what others are doing to be successful and just kind of like, oh hey, this person did that really cool giveaway.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Like, you guys have a really fun giveaway going on right now that helps increase exposure.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think just like trying to mimic what other successful people are doing is a huge help, and just talking to people about hey, what do you find successful YouTube videos from influencers about?
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Like, hey, this is what the algorithm is doing now, like this is what you should be doing and, honestly, just like it's hard, but just posting content.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like the more you post content, the more the algorithm sees you as active, and so it's just kind of like you want to put out good content, of course, but when it's just you, I find that like there was this piece of advice that I got from someone that was like don't do 10 takes, do one take and post it, just for the time involved, and so just being less critical of yourself before you put content out, there is like a good time saver where you're not just sitting there like wondering like, oh, is this good enough, is this going to do what I want it to?
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Um, just like having the confidence like hey, I'm, I'm putting out content, it's going to resonate with some someone.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I like that.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: It's funny, cause, like the contrarian to me is like always like oh, gonna post a photo, and then I have like other friends reach out to me like do you know, like if you really want to like grow your following, like you, should you know.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Like like post some reels.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Like I don't want to grow my following, I don't care.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: But like for for the podcast it's different.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Like for podcasts, I want to grow.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: But like for my own instagram, like my athlete instagram, I don't care like, yeah, yeah, everybody's different.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the podcast is like such a cool thing and I think that.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: So, for like for the reels, that's where, like, I'm realizing, okay, don't make it overly complicated.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like if you had a fun video that you were going to share with your family because you thought it was funny, like, share that as a reel.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Like people, people want to see the real.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: You, yeah, the real you people.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: People want to see the real.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: You, yeah, the real you.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, you hit on.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: I was going to say this earlier too.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Authenticity is just like so key, um, especially for like Mutt Rock and stuff like that.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know, there's like cause you have so many users of the product.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I think that it's cool to see, you know, have people.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: You can even do like videos of people using that stuff and all that I don't know.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: It's kind of cool it's, it's real you can do.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: There's a lot you can do with it.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know where's like a podcast.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, just a video of a person talking.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I hope you resonate with it, although the one that steven did with joe was absolutely mind-blowingly cool, that was of none of my like creativity.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: That was 100 you should start sharing content of you and rose and your adorable dogs yeah, we actually.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Well, rose does that often and I'm always like because she's always tagging me and stuff and I'm like I was like don't tag me in this like I like to be uh, I don't know, I'm funny, I'm very funny about like my personal instagram, like I'm like it has to be because I'm very.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Here comes the psychological aspect, like very performance based, with a lot of stuff I do like it really matters to me, um, so like I feel like if it's not something like revolving training or like something that I'm doing with this, I have to like.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: What I'm trying to say is like I need to be more me more relaxed.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: We'll care a little bit less, um, whereas, like before, I'm like much more results oriented and stuff like that.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people are that way where it's like, if it's not perfect or if you don't, if you're afraid it's not going to perform the way you want it to, um, we just don't put it out there.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: And I think, yeah, social media kind of teaches you to just people want to see the real you, the authentic you.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: That's true, I think my life is somewhat boring.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: But when I start to think about like the way other people live, they're like, for instance, like this is no shade to like some colleagues I work with in accounting and finance.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: But it's like a lot of people, just like I said, no shade, a lot of people don't have like the hobbies that I have outside of work, right.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And then I think about it.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh man, I'm going for like a run on a mountain in the middle of the day and like bumping into bears and moose and stuff.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: That's not boring.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like I guess this isn't so boring, but like the way I view it is like no, I'm just doing a training run and like this is just checking a box for training to like put in that metaphorical bucket for a better performance, right.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: And then, like you know, sometimes you have to unpack that and you're like, oh no, this is actually like really fun.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: So we live in such a beautiful place that I think, like I look out like I was looking at Pikes Peak today and I'm like, oh my gosh, that never gets old.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: But like when you look out in your backyard, your backyard or your local trails might start to feel old to you or like you start to take them for granted.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: But I think when you see someone like share content, that is like, oh wow, there's this beautiful rushing river.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: And then it's like, oh my gosh, this is all in my backyard and just realizing that like that never gets old for viewers, like the beauty that we have around us and same with like the content of just like trail running, mountain running dogs, like those are some fun things to be able to make content about.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Like like you were saying like there's people out there in finance or insurance and it's like, oh man, what are you, what are you going to make a reel about?
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: And but I think we're lucky to live in such a beautiful place and have such unlimited hobbies, yeah, unlimited ability.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: like even yesterday, like me and steven, um and uh, another friend, were on the incline and I was just like like for once I actually like looked around, like took it in and I was like, damn, what a beautiful place to live.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Like this is crazy.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: And there's people out there that, like don't have that as their backyard, and so just trying to remember like this is something to not take for granted, and it is interesting.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not boring, definitely not boring.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Definitely not.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I was thinking about, like, do you do I wouldn't say activations, but like in the community and stuff like that?
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Are you planning on doing more stuff with, like not just races, but like community events and stuff like that, to get more, you know, like local dog people involved or like how to like turn people's heads on that?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah I I've always, in the back of my head, wanted to rally like a little local 5k um, just like a, like more dog friendly events like.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: But I, I, that's kind of one of those things where it's like I have no idea where to even start yeah um, there was this company on instagram called dogs who jog.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: They had the coolest logo.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know where they are anymore but I'm like I want your sticker.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Can you make more stickers?
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Like they had the coolest dogs who jog sticker with like the dogs and sunglasses and everything um, but they like put on a virtual event and it like, um, supported local rescues and different things and it was just virtual.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: But they like sent out bibs to everyone, like mailed out, like the bib and finisher medal.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Um, I just thought it was so inspirational and so, yeah, just like that would be.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: That would be like a bucket list goal of mine to put on some sort of like running event with dogs that supported the human society it's.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: The reason I ask is because I've been thinking about different ways to like, so like with the podcast, right, like how can I get involved with the community?
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: And like I'm like huh, like dude I.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: There's this coffee shop, for instance, in manitou that I love.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: It's called the loft.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Shout out to the loft.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: If you guys haven't been there yet, it's dope.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: I'll have to check it out.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, you haven't been there before no, no.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: So here's my pitch.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: This is like I'm going to pitch a lot of brands on this.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: It's like I want to do a group run, like just a group of people, and we all just go out and run up a steep trail or do something like that and then hang out with coffee and and they make really good homemade donuts and stuff like their croissants and donuts are phenomenal just hang out after and like shoot the shit and network and get more people involved.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: So that was something I've been thinking about is like doing more like community based stuff, like activations with getting more people involved, and I was like oh, totally dope Right.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Totally, because I was actually, just like just a couple of months ago, thinking similarly in that, even though I might not know the legalities of putting like an actual race together, just getting a group together, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Like hey, let's all go do this because the race is complicated with like permitting yeah, and insurance, because I've looked into this as well yeah like I think that's going to be.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: This is down the pipe, like maybe two years probably, but like we're, we're gonna do a race, um, not here, but like like a proper mountain race.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's complicated, oh my gosh oh, I can imagine the insurance that goes into it, the timing mats is so expensive, like I mean, I did like literally like a full research, like, and then like if we're gonna do it, we gotta do it big.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: So we gotta have a live stream.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: You know like there's go big or go home, so but like just even doing the 5k, like the permitting thing.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: I talked to colorado springs recently, um, about the permitting just to see, like all right, like anything with um.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: What did they say to me?
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's like anything with um.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Like a tent or like any outside stuff?
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, immediately needs a permit and it's like you have to pay x and y for the permitting and then it's like all right if it goes up to a certain amount of people.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: That it's like very complicated yeah, yeah so yeah, I would just organize your own one without any.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like like, without like any secure own thing.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like go find a small town that doesn't have a little legality of it Right or Palmer Lake, probably doesn't give a, probably don't care at all.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, we have some family that like lives out in St Francis Kansas it's like a Kansas town of like 1200 people and they like put on their little like 5K that was like 20 people that showed up and it's like see, I can do this.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Those are the best events when you just have like 20 people and they're just out there doing yeah, that's the thing, like you'll notice, especially because you did what Mad Moose events and that's a little more grassrootsy.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you see the Aerovibe event, like Black Canyon, a, that is like the might be the biggest event in our sport right now, like it's huge.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: So it's cool to see the dichotomy of like these little grassroots or the smaller grassroots events versus like this giant thing yeah, so yeah yeah, I don't know.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: There's a place in sport for everything, though that's yeah, kind of cool yeah all right, we just talked for an hour.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, so he so Use the meditative.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: I can chat.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Especially, I just had a second cup of coffee, like you get me going and I can talk for hours.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Some fun content in there.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see who inspires you.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: This might sound cliche, but it's honestly my family, like I think just seeing what they're accomplishing and having their unwavering support is so inspiring.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's not some like I don't have some like lofty, like oh, this hero, but yeah, I think like being surrounded by a family that loves you is very inspiring.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful answer, thanks, let's talk competition here.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: You're getting ready for a race.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: It's Black Canyon 50k.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: What's your hype song?
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: What's in the earphones?
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, I love EDM music.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Me too, oh man.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so like elderbrook odessa, um ak, I don't it like I.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: So there was actually this song recently ak wanderlust.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: You look it up, it's got this like slow build um.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: So if you're ultra running and you've got that slow pace going, it's actually perfect.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: But it has that like um EDM drop.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: That's just like oh, this is inspiring, I can do this.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so EDM is.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Where is that?
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: All right, I like it.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm oh man, there's.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: There's a lot.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: I mean I haven't been paying as much attention.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: I'm more like I could go all the way back to, like 2012, avicii, and I I'm loving it.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: You know, like I, I'm I'm like an adopter of like em since, like college, back in the day.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's good stuff.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, odessa was what got me into it and that's dope yeah yeah, I'm trying to think of like um rufus, rufus, just soul yeah like oh yeah, that's another really good one.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Rufus to soul alive.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Watch the music video.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: It's just very cinematic.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: But it's like, oh, I want to go run, this is amazing it's crazy how, like the good like, if you get it like a really good like, sometimes if I'm like doing a speed work on the treadmill or something like that, I'll like pop on.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Um, there's a lot of especially during covid they did a lot of these like park and drive or park it it was a park and rave, I think it was what it was called there's a lot of really good like EDM shows for like two hours, um, and it's like great audio quality on YouTube and they have like no ads.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: So I can just sit there and just like I could.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: You know, you can hammer out your paces that you need to hit or your heart rate zones, um, and like, yeah, you could just jam to it.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is amazing.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's good stuff.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm trying to think what other questions I want to.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see are you?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Are you a bigfoot believer?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: You should see your face.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: It's actually pretty funny.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: I know I was like I had to think about it for a second.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Is there a reason why I'm just kind of curious?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: because all the videos out there that are like oh, oh, my gosh, we saw a Bigfoot, it's just a guy in a gunny suit.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: It usually is.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: I had Darren Thomas on the podcast phenomenal athlete and he was telling me he used to work for Pikes Peak I guess it was Park Rangers or whatever like up on Pikes Peak.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: He used to work for Pike's Peak I guess it was park rangers or whatever like up on Pike's Peak and there would be a.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: There's a ranger that every year dresses up like Bigfoot and runs across the road like to some, like tourist family and like so just to keep like the idea of it alive.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm like yes, there's there's this house on highway 83 that if you're a newbie it's like a bigfoot, like life-size sculpture that's set far enough back in the trees that when you first get a glimpse of it it's like what the heck?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean once you drive by it multiple times it's like, oh, that's that statue.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: But for newbies that just drive by it for the first time, it's like it's perfectly placed in the forest I know exactly, that's so funny yeah there's a lot of good ones, I don't know.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: I I'm not.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a bummer for me because at Colorado I don't think he's around or was or is, but like I don't know, part of me wants to believe like at some point in time he was running around.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: I would be too scared to go out if I believed in him.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: So okay, so okay, that's fair, that's fair, yeah it would be, are you like?
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Are you like when you're on a trail run?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Are you like constantly looking out for animals?
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Are you like nervous about animals?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: so there's been a few places, like up on mount herman, where I was running by myself that I was like I don't recommend yeah I I like I just had this weird vibe where I was like I feel like I'm mountain lion meat right now okay and I don't know what was giving me a weird vibe.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: But I have not since gone there alone Just because I felt like every single rock corner I was looking for a mountain lion, but trails that I'm familiar with I get really comfortable and feel fine.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of kiddie tracks up there.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: There's got to be a lot of mountain lions.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Especially in winter, like big tracks.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I haven't been up there in a while.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: There's some weird shit on Mount Hermon Road there's some weird stuff on Mount Hermon Road.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: Let me just say that Go there with your group of 10 friends.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I agree, if you're gonna go up there, go with a group of last year.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: There was like a cat, someone drove a cadillac off the cliff, oh wow, oh yeah, and it was like crashed into the trees.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how did you do that?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know yeah it took them a while to get it out.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's a cool area, but it definitely has become a go with a group yeah, be careful but yeah, being like like being a smaller person.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I definitely felt like I was mountain lion meat on that on that day, but oh for sure, yeah.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there, it's crazy to think like we do.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: I think we do have a lot more kitties than people think, like on the front range in this area, like yeah.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Um, we have friends.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, we used to cat sit for a group of people in, uh, in the Springs or no, I'm sorry and palmer lake and their like house backed right up to the um, like one of the like open areas, like literally right up on the ridge and they would tell me that like a mountain lion would come down, like they had a little cat, and it would like paul at the at the sliding glass door to like get to the cat yeah, oh my gosh.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have some friends that live in the roxborough area.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, and they frequently have um kitty activity on their outdoor, like green camera.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah, I've never.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I've only seen one from a car.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: I can't say I've ever bumped into one a bear I bumped into though I tell this story on the podcast all the time because it's hilarious.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: Uh, edm, music fool.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: I got my music because, like, if I'm running, like I usually depends on what's going on, but sometimes I'll put on earphones if I gotta get like a easy hour done or a hard hour whatever, and uh, it's like a lunch break at work and I'm like, all right, I don't have much time, I gotta like get this done.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, running up on this ridge in palmer lake and I bumped like literally closer to me to this thing, I like ran, ran into a bear, like he had his back turned as I get up on this Ridge and he looked at me and I looked at him and he like ran away and I was like, oh my God, I was thinking it totally destroyed me.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Thankfully the black bears here.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: They can get big, but the black bears here are very timid.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: It's funny.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: And Palmer league is where I've seen all the bears I've seen in Colorado.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, yeah, yeah, three of the three were last summer in colorado, which is funny yeah, I've seen one um way back, like when the flying w ranch was a thing yeah, it was huge, like the size of half of a sedan they're big yeah yeah, like it was just moseying through the parking lot like I don't think it cared about humans, like it was just there for, like, picking up trash and stuff because it was huge, yeah they're cool, very cool, you know, just like this I usually ask this question.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: But like there's this old thing that, like some people think that there's grizzlies left in colorado, especially like in the san juans it's a great book written on it, uh, called ghost grizzlies and like I'm a total believer, like total, like I leaves me like no doubt sometimes that there's like still not here, but like in the san juan certain areas, the south yeah, because it's such a vast, big area yeah pretty wild yeah, yeah, no grizzlies or bigfoot, please, yeah right, all right.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: So last question what's your take on the aliens then?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: oh, my media answer is absolutely not, but I was just recently watching venom and those are some pretty cool aliens.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: So fair enough.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Oh man, well, gretchen, thank you so much for coming on the pod.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: Do you think did we get everything?
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure we got everything for mutt rock.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, totally, okay.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you want to shout out the instagram or any way to get in contact?
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: um, go from there yeah, check out my instagram.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: It's um at mutt rock m-u-t-t-r-u-k.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: And um.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: You can reach out to me directly there if you um ever have any questions.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm most active on instagram.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: And what's the website?
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Is it my rockcom?
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sweet, my rockcom.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Well, thanks for so much for coming on, appreciate it.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Thanks.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what'd you guys think?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Really want to thank Gretchen so much for coming on on the podcast.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: What a fun episode.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: Just just a really enlightening and just just just a super informative one.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I've always wanted to know how to scale a business or how to start something in that realm, and I think this gave a lot of people who might be interested in it, maybe something to go off of.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: So I definitely think that there's a lot of value in an episode like this and, like I said, I really want to thank Gretchen so much for coming on, and this was a fun one.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Before you guys get, do me a favor hop on instagram.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: Let's get gretchen and mutt rock some follows.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: Um, if you want to give gretchen a follow, her instagram handle is the pickle trails.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Get it.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: Gretchen, dill, dill pickle, haha, haha, um, yeah, so the pickle trails.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: That's for gretchen.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: Um, and then let's give mutt rock a follow, and if you're interested in purchasing some of their stuff, you're going going to find it on MuttRuckcom and you'll be able to find Mutt Ruck at M-U-T-T-R-U-K.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: That's going to be the handle that's on Instagram.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Give them a follow, send them a DM, say hi, and if you're someone like me and my wife that run with our dogs all the time, you're definitely going to love a lot of the stuff that they have to offer.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: I'm really a big fan of their belt, which I was fortunate enough to get to try out and play with.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: So the belt's good stuff.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: All their products are awesome.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: So big shout out to Mutt Rock, big shout out to Gretchen.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoyed it.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: This is the last episode for the holidays, so, guys, hope you have a wonderful holiday, enjoy it, spend time with your families, enjoy some runs and, yeah, enjoy your time out there.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: And we'll have some episodes coming after Christmas.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: So, guys, enjoy the rest of your week.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you.