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Kevin Coffey- Music Journalist & Podcaster · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they reference that listener described entity is advised.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's on the podcast.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's called and it's available on all podcasting platforms.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, I can't tell you enough how timely this episode is.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you've been paying attention to social media to any extent, everybody is posting their Spotify rapt right now all over the place.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's Instagram stories, everybody's Facebook feeds.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm even seeing it on TikTok.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing it on threads.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I gotta tell you something very honest about my Spotify Wrapped.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is wrong.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: My Spotify wrapped is absolutely wrong.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: My tastes are so seasonal that I will listen to a lot of one artist during some season and it will skew my whole year.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So don't pay any attention.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm not posting mine.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: But that said, I have a very special guest with me today.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have been following Kevin for years through his time at the Omaha World Herald.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: He is now a host of his own podcast, Pops and Hisses.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can check it out.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: You could also visit popsandhisses.com to read some of his articles, listen to some of his episodes.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin Coffee, welcome to Cod on the Mic.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing, my friend?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all right, man.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I am glad to have you.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that is no joke.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have been following your content for some time now.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I gotta pay a specific compliment to you because you are the anti-critic critic.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate hearing that, but I want to know why you say that.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the reason why I say that is you're not afraid to show love to artists that a lot of conventional music critics turn their nose up at.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that I've always appreciated about you.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I also am not afraid to go, that thing that everybody else loves does not connect with me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of my one of my things is I I hate the idea of a guilty pleasure.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like what you like.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I say that to people all the time.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like, and I say this, this is the easy one, and everyone says this.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like nickelback.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I respect them.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say that.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like them.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone picks on them, but I hear from people all the time, you're like, oh man, I love going to concerts.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen nickelback seven times.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I I don't like that.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: You love it, that's awesome for you.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, keep it up.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so that's a thing that I enjoy.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think tastes are personal, and I think there's certainly music that I would rank as good or bad, but I think it also is up to individuals, and it's okay to enjoy the things that you enjoy, even if someone tells you that you that they're no good.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's something that also happens with age, though?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like we get very subjective and very much within our corner of things when we're younger, that if we veer outside of that corner, we're almost like betraying that thing we want to represent.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So as we get older, like our tastes broaden because we're like, I get why people like this.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's good to revisit shit.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing I've always thought, and I'm sure you're this exact same way, everybody, their core musical identity is formed somewhere in those preteen, teen middle school, high school years.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're venturing out on your own, like literally and uh figuratively in music and and movies and things like that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you form that taste at that time.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then a lot of people stop, they've formed their taste, that is what they like.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: They might add in a few new things, like as they go.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but you're probably this way, like me.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: You never stop consuming music, you never stop consuming pop culture, always finding new things, and I think that's a rarity.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Most people don't do that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think to your point and to your question, that folks uh it's cool to get older and realize that like sometimes you're you're wrong.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And like sometimes you're like, oh, that thing that I liked that I was kind of embarrassed about, I like it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like it's okay that I like it.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: The amount of artists that I have read books from, seen them live, like read interviews or whatever, who are like, no, I really love this thing that I'm not supposed to quote unquote like.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Henry Rollins talks about it in some of his spoken word.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I went back and bought all the Casey and the Sunshine band records because they're great pop records.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I just read Dave Grohl's book.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: It came out a couple years ago, but Storyteller.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he talks about like all these artists that he really thoroughly enjoys.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's like 70s AM radio pop stuff that, you know, quote unquote terrible, but he's like, I love it.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then one I read recently very recently was Jeff Tweety from Wilco came out and was just like, I have been falling in love with this like bad pop music, for lack of a better term.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he just went on this eloquent thing.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was like some of this music, he was talking about ABBA was one of the things specifically, how gorgeous of music it is.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Dancing Queen, he's like, Why did I shun this song?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, This is a beautiful song to the point where it brought him to tears.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a good attitude to have.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it for sure is.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I do want to circle back on this a little later in the episode because I think streaming has had a lot of influence on how tastes have evolved to a certain extent.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll revisit that topic and and Spotify in general here in a few minutes.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But without any further ado, why don't you kind of give us a little bit of your origin story?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: What brought you to the world of journalism and music specifically?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I got it.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I got started as a high school uh newspaper journalist.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was my first ever concert review.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was written uh at my high school paper.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I really enjoyed journalism.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: My friends were on the newspaper staff, but I really gravitated toward entertainment and fun because that's what I spent my time doing, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Was reading books and watching movies and going to concerts and stuff.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like when it started, and I was, I really enjoy this.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when I went to college, I kept doing that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, joined my newspaper staff.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: At that time, for some reason, I was like, I'm gonna be a serious serious news journalist is what I'm gonna do.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I kept finding myself gravitating toward that more fun stuff.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I ended up at uh Omaha publication that sat now, as of like right now, is defunct called the reader as a writer, as an intern and then a writer and editor there.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's where I started doing my first like real entertainment stuff.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: My uh like first interview ever was Fallout Boy.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: They had just put out the From Under the Cork tree album.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: They just they had those first two records, they put out that one that just rocketed up, and I loved it.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: It had so much fun doing it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was like, this is what I really want to do, and so I just kept pursuing that.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I find that you know, you set yourself up for success by just doing the thing that you want to do, and so I just kept going after it and going after it.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got lucky to some degree uh that after I had finished college, um, there was an opening at the Omaha World Herald for an online entertainment editor.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I really want to be like a writer, that's what I'd like, but this is a journalism job, it's in a good newsroom, like it'll be a good place to go.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I landed that job and it was great.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then I did that for a couple of years, and again, I like right place, right time, kind of got lucky, but also I had built up this this uh backlog of this portfolio of all these interviews and uh musician stories and all these music things that I had done uh in the past.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: But the music writer at the World Herald, the music critic, took another position.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: She had done it for several years and didn't want to do it anymore.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I landed that job, and then that was a that was just truly awesome.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: My every day was consuming, uh thinking about writing, interviewing artists, going to shows, and that's when I was I mean, I wrote 350 to 400 pieces a year.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of those are interviews, going to hundred, a hundred shows a year, uh, roughly you mean I I actually have over a series of years a list of every single band I saw, where I saw them and when I saw them.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And part of it was because I started forgetting who I saw.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I forgot the shows.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I gotta start writing that down because I don't remember.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I was at the World Herald for oh, it was almost 15 years in total from when I started to when I left.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I took on a number of roles later on while I was there, including being the entertainment uh editor, the features editor, the whole feature section.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I maintained being the music writer all the way through to the end.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the sad part is uh small local newspapers are not doing as well as they used to be.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so it was time to make a change, make a move, and so I moved on to a different day job that's been really good, but uh I've just continued to do that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I had actually started a podcast for the end there because I was really enjoying the interviews, and you know, you only get a certain amount of print space to be able to show people some of those answers and stuff.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I want to do this whole thing.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I started doing a podcast there, uh, and then kind of morphed that into my own site, my own podcast, and I've just continued to do stuff.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I left during COVID though.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I started a new music blog and podcast right about the time all these artists were like, Yeah, we're not touring or releasing music or doing anything.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and have I've had a uh my family's had a third, our third child in the last couple years, so like it's been look some fits and starts with uh creating content, really.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what I've been doing for it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Feel like not I haven't done it that long.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: You look back, it's like, oh I've been basically writing about music, you know, being a music critic for like 20 years at this point, which is nuts.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I think back to when I first moved to Omaha.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I moved to Omaha late 1999.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I got involved in the music scene right about that same time, and I actually came from a city right outside of Des Moines, right?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Fresh off of slipknot signing, you know.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it was one of those things where it was like a dart on a dartboard.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I can move to Des Moines and be in a metal band because everybody wants to be slipknot clones, or I can move to Omaha and have diversity, and I not trying to shit on or hate on Des Moines, but that's really the way it was back then, right?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and 20 years have gone, 23 years at this point, have gone by so fast.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: How has all of those years doing this influenced your fandom of music and like what you consume and what you listen to?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was always that kid growing up that I was flipping between hip-hop records and metal records and indie rock records and stuff, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I people are like, I love all kinds of music.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I I really do love all kinds of music.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I have I annoy my wife with the way my like we're talking about Spotify, the way my favorite songs jumps around between the most random stuff.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: But and I and I think um my time doing this has just broadened it.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So what you encounter here in Omaha, Nebraska, to your point, it it is a diverse when people call the music scene, like it's like a lot of scenes all kind of in one, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes from like even the like performers, you know, playing it clubs and and uh bars and stuff like that, like local bands and whatever, all the way up to like what people actually consume.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you look at the local arena, who's coming in, it's not just country, it's the biggest artist in the world, it's country artists, it's hip-hop artists.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what was kind of fun about having the job that I had was covering all that stuff and realizing that your readership, the people who are looking at this stuff, are looking at all of it.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not like oh country really I pick on country because we're in the Midwest, right?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: You think oh seriously, yeah, um and it's sure certainly is popular, but it's not the only thing that was selling out the arena, it's not the only thing that was selling out the the you know the clubs or the bars either.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, actually, most of the stuff is like rock and pop and all kinds of different things.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like my horizons have only broadened in what I consume.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was talking about annoying my wife.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was also talking about I was just thinking the other day about my kids are like, I don't if you asked them what my favorite band was, I don't know they'd be able to tell you.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Mine either.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sure you're the same way.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that was one of my thoughts that I wanted to ask you is what did that feel like coming to Omaha, you know, being a part of that music scene or scenes and what was available to you as a musician.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I came to Omaha right at the right time.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think enough people really understand how big of a boom Omaha was having from 2000 to 2003.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: That three years was like, yeah, it was like somebody set a grenade off in a in a crowded in a crowded stadium, you know?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was all over the place.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I make this reference, some people get it, some people don't, but I call the ranch bowl specifically, I call it the forest gump of music venues because you never knew who was gonna walk through those doors.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember there's one night we're just casually hanging out in the bar, and the guys from Tonic they weren't playing, they just stopped in the ranch bowl to have drinks, and that type of thing happened all the time.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really exciting, and I know that wasn't happening in Des Moines, you know.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So great, right to me making the ultimate choice to move here, like it was it was one of those things where there was like this sense of anticipation and this sense of anxiety that something big was gonna happen at any moment in time, but you could never define it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's interesting looking at that time.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I someone asked me once, um, what what's the Omaha sound?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, there is no Omaha sound.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at that specific time period, what was happening with Saddle Creek and the three biggest bands that came out of that time and place at that period, which would be Bright Eyes and The Faint and Cursive, neither of those three things sound any bit like the other one, except for maybe one or two bright eyes releases sounding a little more different than the others, but like totally different.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the amount of what's been interesting is talking to making friends with talking to artists over the years, the amount of people who were getting those major label calls and meetings at that time, some of them got signed, certainly in the mid to late 90s and early 2000s.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them got signed and things happened, or they released a record and didn't, or got signed and nothing happened.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I know a good amount of people who had like major label meetings offers.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were this close to being signed and it never really happened.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's insane.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: The amount that was going on at that time was crazy.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to some degree, certain people probably thought, oh, this is just gonna this is how it is, this is gonna keep happening.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was kind of lightning in a bottle at that time.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it must have been I just think it must have been really interesting to step into that for you.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, especially like the way my projects progressed because it was like it was going from you know, shitty band night Tuesdays to playing weekends at the ranch bowl that you had to earn.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like back in the day when it was prestigious, you had to earn those spots.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, people back at that time were always making the joke, well, Pomeroy's playing the Ranch Bowl five nights a week, but what people don't know is Pomeroy was playing so frequently because, to your point, AR reps were coming up to see them on a regular basis, regular basis, and they were one of those bands that were Yeah, they were selling out the Ranch Bowl every time.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was it there was not like a lack of demand, they weren't playing to 12 people at four nights a month, like they were selling the place out.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was nuts.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was in those shows.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: But let's kind of fast forward a little bit to how everything has evolved, not just locally, but nationwide, worldwide, since the advent of streaming media and how people are consuming music a lot differently.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: How has that influenced what you do?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: The first point is people are consuming more music, I think, uh wider depth of music, just more things.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: You had just have access to it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you dial back to we as young men, if you want to hear a song, you had to wait for it on the radio, call the radio station and ask for it, or go to the record store and buy it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: If I am flipping through TikTok today, which I do, and hear an artist that I've never heard before, I can go find their entire discography in a second, which is cool.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's cool.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: The discovery of music is like instant in a way that I really enjoy.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I did that yesterday.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: There was a guy that I don't know, he popped in my social media feed, and I was like, this song is so catchy, it's really fun.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go see more, and I listen to a few more of his songs.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I like that, I like that, I like that.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, for me, that's also hopefully seeing them live uh or interviewing them for what I do.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, buying the record and stuff too.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I love streaming for that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I do also want artists to get paid.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So try to buy records and so when I can, or I feel like something I can do to support them also is give them exposure through the mediums that I'm on.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I and it but the second part of your question, and I touched on it a little bit.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: What's cool is that discovery also translates into finding artists that I want to talk about.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um finding artists that you might not have realized have a uh a niche or a following, and you've you know you hear about them on social media, you someone texts you a Spotify link, and then you open it up, you're like, this band has a 800 million streams.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're popular, and I'd never heard about them before today.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's fascinating.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's just opened up everybody's taste.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's resulted in if you look at what's going on in the next two months here in Omaha, what bands are coming, an even bigger spread of who shows up to play?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like those more bands can do more tours, can play more places because it's easier to find out who they are.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So on the flip side of that, because you've really pointed out the positives, do you think the ritualistic aspect of consuming music not being as prevalent, you know, aside from the vinyl boom that's going on right now, do you think taking that ritualistic aspect away to a certain extent has also hurt it to a degree?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I find it in my own listening, like, and I'm looking across the room at my turntable, it's just right on the other side of the camera, on the other side of the mic.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And when I listen to vinyl, it's a very intentional process, right?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Flip through the records, pull one out of the sleeve, pop the turntable, check the RPMs, put it on, drop the needle, sit, listen.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: When it's done, flip it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a just an active music listening experience.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think vinyl takes it to somewhat of an extreme.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to do all those things to do it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even a CD, though, like, and for me, flipping through the book of a CD to find the music that I want to play, put it on the CD player, hit play.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: My boom box that I had as a kid only didn't repeat, it played the 12 songs, and then like you get to go back and hit play again.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a much more involved process in music where I find uh with streaming as convenient as it is, it's also really easy to just play some tunes and zone out and not really pay that much attention.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's that sort of aspect where you can just kind of leave it in the dust, and it's not as uh intentional, not as important to the experience of it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have to remind myself that like, you know what I want to do?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to sit down and listen to this.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or I heard a lyric in there that I wasn't paying attention to.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get the lyric sheet out, or the you know, lyricgenius.com webpage, because I want to hear exactly what he said and like pay attention to it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to slow myself down too.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's one thing that you know, I'm really encouraged because I have a 16-year-old daughter, and she is coming into her own, and oddly, like being of the age now where 90s music is considered oldies is a little jarring.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like she asked me for a cranberries uh record for Christmas, and I'm like, oh shit, this is the best thing ever, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: But she's starting to kind of listen to the vinyl too, and I I love the fact that there is a generation a step below that is actually starting to get that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that vinyl is making a resurgence for that exact reason.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I spoke with Adam Russell from Story of the Year about a year ago, and we were talking, it was right before they released their current album, and we were talking about how artists release music in a different way now.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not everybody is releasing full albums, most artists are releasing songs a chunk at a time ahead of the full album release.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that that kind of hurts the consumption process of a full album and a full thought?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's something to be said for the full album experience.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if Finding that B-side, that gem that you didn't wouldn't have heard because it wasn't on the radio or whatever.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: But to that end, like I also think there was a time when bands, bands, artists were releasing 12 songs because you kind of needed to, you know, 12 to 15 songs.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you really know what the few really good ones are on there.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: There are a few singles, but um not all of them were really gonna be hits.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, like being more intentional about we know these are the four that we really want to perform.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we're only gonna make the four.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: We don't, you know, the reason why albums are the format that they are is because records are so big that you have to fit a certain amount of music on them.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like it would be a waste to put out a vinyl with like half of it, you know, blank space.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, bands got to a certain format, and by the CD era, it was like, well, we can put as much or as little as we want, but still stuck with that format.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm rambling, but I think there's some good things about it.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like artists are really working hard on those few songs to make sure they are kick-ass and they're ready to go.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think we're missing something on those gems, the even songs that were probably not that good, but I love off of a band that I bought a CD of, you know, track eight, no one ever heard before, but like I love it.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: When they play live, I freak out.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's interesting to me is you mentioned a little bit, and I wonder what you think about this, is how bands will release like the teaser EP, then the full-length album, then the outtakes, then the remix record.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like for one album cycle, and it's a sometimes that can be really great, but sometimes I feel like they're just trying to feed the beast to keep people engaged with a new release, quote unquote.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: That is part of the era that we're in.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's symptomatic of the era that we're in.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the content era.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not necessarily about music, it's about content.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been a strong believer in the less is more format.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like make a statement, tell a story, sell that story for a while, then move on to the next story.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I do actually struggle with that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe that's just the old man in me, but it just seems like a a band or an artist is just going to the same well a little bit too often.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that that might be uh a reason why there's not as much longevity in artists not named Taylor Swift.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's a viable, for lack of a better term, merchandising strategy as well.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is totally.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can get people to buy or it, you know, stream or whatever, multiple versions of this.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had the example recently of I heard an Ed Sheeran song, and I was like, oh, I like that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I heard it on a commercial or at a TV show or on a on Instagram.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where I heard it, but I heard a clip of it.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I like that.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went and I found the song, but it was totally not the same version.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a totally different version.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm trying to scroll through the man's discography, and like he's only released like five proper records, but each record has an acoustic version, the outtake version, the demo version, the extended version.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And trying to track down that one frickin' track that I enjoyed on like the six versions of some record he had was maddening.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, I think this happens for those he's a massive artist, right?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: He can do that all he wants.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's also got a huge fandom, and they want every little piece of that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, for a casual person, it's like I really enjoyed the acoustic version of this, but not the fully produced version.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was a such a pain in the ass to try and just track down one track.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was insane.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Back in our day when artists would do things like that, kind of did the pick and choose thing.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember, and a lot of people shit on them, but I remember when Sublime, all their after Brad Noel passed away and the self-titled album came out, there were all these little B-sides albums, and one of my favorite B-sides albums that came out was like an acoustic performance album.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an EP of acoustic versions of Sublime songs.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this I can get down with, you know, some of these other B sides, there's a reason they were B sides.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I always love the unreleased track of the deceased artists that they never released, and it's like the reason they didn't release it is because it wasn't actually that good.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And just like I know why they do it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: The Beatles just did it, and it's to create excitement for some release by including some new thing, but it's like, you know, it's not necessarily good.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Having hip hop fandom, you know, Tupac and Biggie stuff.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: The endless wills of that.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, as soon as legalities of it are unlocked, what's gonna happen with Prince's Vault eventually.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of artists like that that prolifically record.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just, you know, you never know what you're gonna get.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they really didn't release them because they didn't feel like it.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they didn't release them because they didn't think they were good, sometimes they didn't release them because they didn't have the rights for whatever weird reason.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, an interesting one too, kind of related, is apparently Eddie Murphy, um, who has released music in the past, has a recording studio, loves making music, and does it all the time, but like never releases anything.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I'm like, I I want the Eddie Murphy archives opened.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know whether they're funny or really musical or whatever.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I bet they're great.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear that.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: You almost want a really good producer that's got a really good ear to just get locked in that studio for a week and say, pick out the best shit, put together one album of the best stuff, release that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, use their unbiased but very discerning ear.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want a curator, not just someone who's trying to extend the uh the payday, if that makes sense.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was the last artist that you discovered that really excited you?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's a freaking great question.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the most recent artist that I've discovered that I've really enjoyed, and this was totally a um TikTok discovery.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when we had our most recent baby, he needed to, he needed a lot of a lot of cuddles, a lot of a lot of rocking to sleep and stuff like that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So for a period there, I'd pop in the AirPods, uh, go to rock them to sleep, and I'd flip through social because it was just like I need I didn't know if I'd be in there for 20 minutes or two hours.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you you don't want to bring you don't want to start a movie, you might be there for five minutes.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd just be flipping through TikTok or flipping through Instagram.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I found this guy, his name's Evan Honer, H-O-N-E-R, and he's a singer-songwriter.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I he's gotta be like college or just out of college age.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have a huge following, but he started releasing some songs on uh on TikTok and then on Spotify, and he's just got this amazing voice.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's covered some songs that are really good, but uh I discovered just this one song, and he only posted like a 30-second clip of it to TikTok.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was so fucking good.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I would go back and listen to that 30 seconds over and over.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it was finally released on Spotify, and it's great.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's called I Don't Know Shit About Cars, and it's a great song.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he's also covered like Jim Croce and Tyler Childers, and there's a John Prime cover that he did.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I I've just really enjoyed this guy, and it was totally just finding him on uh social media, and he's been great.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things he did was like Tyler Childers wrote a song for El King, and she did it, and so he covered that song.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Jersey Giant, and I've like her version's great, his version's awesome, like interesting to be sung from female and male perspectives.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just am really enjoying this guy, and I'm like, come to Omaha.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Come to Omaha, dude.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, that's been one that's just a really random discovery.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because I heard it on the radio, I I just discovered him on TikTok, and I've just been really digging him.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Similar aspect to this next question is has there been an artist over the past 20 years whose uprising surprised you, but was also a welcome surprise, something you really wanted to see happen.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have one, but I would be interested to hear what yours is.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I wonder if we have the same one.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's tough.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody who really surprised me when I was happy about it.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Not to be talking about country all the time, but my my number one would probably be Sturgil Simpson.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um guy from Kentucky, puts out a few records.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody knows who this guy is.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, nobody does.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I learned about him because my brother lived in Kentucky at the time and was like, he went to like a Dwight Yocham show.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we grew up listening to Dwight Yocham, he's great.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then he was like, this guy that opened for Dwight Yoakum has got the best country voice I've ever heard in my life.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, well, I'm listening.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about him.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's like, check this guy out.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he sent me like the first Sturgil Simpson record, and I was like, wow, this guy's really, really good.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: But still at the time, nobody knew who he was.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Within a couple of years, he's signed to a major label, not the Nashville country arm of the major labels, but to like, you know, Atlantic Records or whatever.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's winning Grammys.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's just become this cultural icon for country music, especially as there was country music that a lot of people didn't really think was very country, you know, like bro country stuff's going on.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: All these artists are like, yeah, he's got the best voice in country music, and we've been listening to him for 10 years.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Where the hell have all the rest of you been?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I've just really enjoyed the hell out of him becoming a big damn deal.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know why all my all all my answers are like country people tonight, but the other one for me is also is also Jason Isbell who is that's what I was looking for.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's mine too.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: That good guitar player in the frickin' drive by truckers, it turns out is incredible.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: I remember he puts out Southeastern and everyone's like, Hey, remember that guy who used to get kicked out of the drive by truckers?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's freaking phenomenal.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: If I if I had to name one album that I feel influenced or changed my adult life, it would be Southeastern.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've listened to that album front to back probably more than any album I've listened to in my lifetime.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And those are two, like I I just met you asked me for one, I mentioned two.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Those are two artists that have a really similar track to me that are just like started sort of obscurely and then just blew up in an amazing way that I love and they're incredible.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I talked to uh drive-by truckers recently, and like they're just such great guys, and like they kicked him out of their band, but they also because they needed to, I think they knew that he needed them to kick him out of the band, right?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: They have since reconciled and become friends and play shows together and stuff.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's a great uh record that's uh uh Patterson Hood and Jason Isbell and uh oh my god, I'm forgetting the third guy in the band going and doing a live show for a benefit.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like freaking sweet.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just I love it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, that's great.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I had a feeling that Jason Isbell was gonna be one of the ones you named because I I know he's one of mine, and I think we've actually interacted on social media about that before.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I had that in my back pocket.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: You tell it you called it, man.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um, who's somebody that you've interviewed that surprised you?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Answer your question, I'll get to it, but first I'm gonna talk about other stuff.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have a hard time with what's your favorite concert ever?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Answer like sorts of questions.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite record of all time?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: It totally changes depending on the day.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I actually at one point uh wrote a story that was the top 10 concerts I've seen in the last 10 years because that was the only way I had to answer that question because I got asked all the time.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, I can't tell you the best concert I've been to ever.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's way too hard.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you the 10 best I've been to in the last 10 years, and I that helps me sort of narrow it down.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's the same thing, it was like, who's the best interview you've ever had?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Be like, oh I don't know.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've done a lot of not I've done a lot of good ones, I've conducted a lot of interviews with great people.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're stumping me on this.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to I was trying to vamp.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it not necessarily, it doesn't necessarily have to be the the best, as much as like like who's an artist where you thought maybe you were getting serving A and you got serving B instead, you know, just a really unique interview that that kind of surprised you after it was all said and done.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good that's a good way of framing that.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean one that was actually was recent and it's on my podcast was uh Patterson Hood from Drive by Truckers was just I like the ones that turn into a conversation.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um not just like I ask a question, they give an answer.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: I ask a question, they give an answer.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like pulling teeth.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um and man, we just had a great freaking time.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just sitting there and talking, I was like, I don't want this to end.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: We went over time, he had other interviews to go to, like we had a blast talking.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was a really good one.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um you mentioned, and I actually thought of this earlier in the interview was uh uh you mentioned Ranch Bowl.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I once interviewed Chris Schifflet, who uh old punk rock guitarist who ended up in the Foo Fighters.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was a really fun interview because we ended up talking not actually that much about the Foo Fighters.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to him because the Foo Fighters were coming to town, and we ended up talking about the Ranch Bowl, um, being in punk bands, like uh what that meant to him, why, like what the role of being the guitar player in the Foo Fighters was to him, rather than talking about the new Foo Fighters record.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that was one of those, like, you know, you think you're gonna talk about the show, like the new album, and like we ended up talking about how he used to hurt his arm going bowling all day at the ranch bowl, or you know, right arm, throwing bowling balls, and then like I gotta pick up a guitar four hours later and play a bunch of like super fast power chords in my pop punk band, and how big of a pain in the ass was.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And like those are the sorts of interviews that are just really fun and memorable.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: You end up having a conversation and feel like you get to know somebody a little bit.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Not like I'm friends with any of these folks or anything, but like, you know, those are fun conversations.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's kind of the joy of podcasting to a certain degree, right?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that you know, you know, I I know I experienced this myself being a podcaster now and making that transition from musician to podcaster, is um you realize that people are giving you time, and time is a gift that people never get back, right?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it is the greatest gift a person can give you is their time.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it is kind of like an investment that kind of sows the seeds of a future relationship if you continue to invest in them later down the line.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the ones that have been really enjoyable have been the folks that I've again, I wouldn't say become friends with, but gained a familiarity with right over over time.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I have two examples there, which is uh I've gotten to know the guys in 311 really well because I've interviewed them so many times.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because of course we want to interview them anytime they come to Omaha, they have such a big fan base here, they're from here, and so I've talked to them a lot of times.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, gotten out of the blue phone calls and text messages from some of those guys, which is uh 14-year-old me thinks that's the wildest shit that's ever happened because the band that he was listening to, I really love that band growing up, and the band that he was listening to is like calling him like, hey Kevin, how you doing?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Which is really wild.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And another one is it it's actually a band that I love, but it's uh the Hold Steady.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've interviewed uh uh Craig Finn's lead singer from The Hold Steady many, many times to the point where I've I've I've had you know minor hangouts with him after shows.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be like, Hey Kevin, how you doing?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like he recognizes me, and like that those sorts of interviews become really good.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like oh, I'm friends with these guys, I'm not.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: They have plenty of other friends, but it actually turns into better conversations about music because you have familiarity with somebody, you can uh spend some time with them, and like you kind of it's like catching up with someone you have you know rather than like introducing yourself uh to somebody all over again.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this might sound redundant, but kind of leading into that, you know, is that the biggest uh differentiator between um you doing this stuff through print versus you podcasting now?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean it's interesting because in that role, which was great, and I I mentioned one of the advantages was before, which was just just witnessing, seeing, experiencing, writing about interviewing a huge breadth of artists.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to some degree, like you're kind of obligated to see Justin Bieber for the fourth time.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with people like Justin Bieber, but like I've seen the show, I don't really want to go again.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so now I don't have to go see that show.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I've got my own operation, man.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no one's demanding that.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, it I I do love kind of like you said, like I like the podcast format, it feels more conversational.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do notice that artists show up ready for more of a conversation.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: I usually get more time to talk to them.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like you said, that time is a gift, that's really great.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it just leads to more fruitful places.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I like, I absolutely love, actually, is uh and why I started my first podcast while I was still at the paper, was you've only got so much space to illustrate why you like somebody.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, you have to tell a narrative about the show coming and why they're here and what's going on with them and what's interesting.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, often I would only get like 500 words or something like that.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's not enough to capture the 30-minute conversation I had with somebody.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I'd really just be able to be like, you know, edit out some ums and ahs and pauses, but like really just show off the whole conversation, so much more fun.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you were to set like a short-term goal and a long-term goal for your podcast, once again called Pops and Hisses, what is that short-term goal and what is the long-term goal?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, short-term goal is just lining up more people to talk to.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not hard.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's more it's more hard for my personal time management to set up uh 30-minute conversations every week or every other week or whatever.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so just getting uh more artists on the show.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I've actually I have had some really great artists on the show.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: My lineup is pretty freaking solid, and I'm really happy with it, but I just want to keep expanding it.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is my short term.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh long term is just making it sustainable to the point where and this has happened to some degree where folks are seeking me out, saying, Hey, we want to be on your show.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's really great.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, part of that is subscribers.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone who's listening to this, please subscribe.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh shameless plug, totally shameless.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe to my show.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but you know, the more subscribers you get, the more people that turn up for that, the better it is to just get stuff.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, it's it's easier for me to land an interview with somebody if I go, hey, I've got 10,000 subscribers.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so just long term, just keeping it sustainable where it's a point where I can just kind of keep churning them out and keep working through it.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I love talking to new and different artists uh over the time.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, in my years, I've had everybody from the world's most obscure indie band who's like traveling in a crappy van, who's playing four shows, and one of them happens to be here, to like Ringo Starr from the Beatles, and I've talked to the Taylor Swift before.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've talked to everybody in between, and I love it.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love every part of that.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like everything in between.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's all interesting conversations.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I was getting lost in what you were saying because I can't help but think of that scene in Twins with Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And Danny DeVito looks at Arnold and he says, The moment I sat down, I thought I was looking into a mirror.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is my exact answer, too.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's a feeder, like a good podcast feeds your next podcast.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're hella consistent with it, it just keeps feeding.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that is such a great reward when people start seeking you out, right?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I will I will say this has always been one of the most rewarding things is uh it continues to be it always has been and continues to be is hearing from people listening to the podcast, hearing from people who listen to the show, unsolicited.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what you were talking about, interaction we've had on social media, like, oh man, that that was that was great, or you know, talking about a person or a thing that we like, or people bumping into you and going, Hey, I heard the latest episode, and it was so good, such a great job.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or uh, you know, I follow you on Twitter.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds silly, uh, but like I love that.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, thank you.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am so appreciative that you care enough to listen in to what I have to say, like, and that's really cool.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like never feel I you can tell people feel awkward about saying that.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I never feel awkward.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, thanks, this is the greatest thing ever.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Man, it totally is.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's one of those things that like you you hustle, you work on it, you put a lot of care into it, and you don't see the immediate tangible result.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it's easy to get defeated, but then you have those moments that just kind of pop up out of nowhere, and you're like, huh, that's kind of cool, you know.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I didn't expect that.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: It it's the greatest feeling on earth, I swear.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had a I had a recent one, and you know, like you were saying, a lot of these things.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Things, you don't just have a big hit, right?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, one day you wake up and 10 million people have listened, or something like that.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's very rare.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it's a slow grind, you build it, you get to a place, and you can look back and go, Wow, I've made a lot of progress over the last year, last five years, whatever.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I did have a gratifying one recently.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was at a show and I was uh reviewing, I was taking photos too, and I was up in the photo pit, and there was this kid there with a record from the band, and he was really excited.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I took his I took his picture because I was like, Man, he just is like rocking out and having a good time.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh man, you must have gotten here early.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're dead center.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: You got the it was a festival show.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: He had the record from the band, those headlining and stuff.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Oh, yeah, I got here really early.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, And I really appreciate everything you write.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I followed you for years, and I was like, Fuck yeah, man, that is awesome.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, thank you so much.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you are cool, yes, you are a dedicated fan, and I really appreciate you having read any stuff, let alone saying nice things about me.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's it's not a praise thing for me, it's just like a really great to make that connection, you know.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing my show for three years now.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's it was like it was like a pandemic.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't make music anymore, so I gotta do something creative project.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, because I haven't done the band thing for well over 10 years, but the thing that I've learned is the podcasting community is also incredibly welcoming and incredibly willing to be collaborative as well.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you've experienced that much yet, but if you haven't, I highly encourage you to like spend some time engaging with other podcasters because it's it's incredible.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's one thing I wanted to do more is actually have other people on my show.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: You should come and do my show.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we'd be honored.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like have other people on my show, like guests on other people's shows.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a lot of what I did before podcasting was radio.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've been on the radio locally like a billion times.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I always loved it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like fun, like bringing people to talk about things that they like or uh things they have an expertise on or just whatever.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you get this as a solo podcast host, like finding things to talk about, like you need someone often to play off of, and like I like having people with a different opinion or just a different experience, or even if we both land on Jason Isball.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like, you know, just like you and I are of a similar age, like similar interactions in different ways with music, but uh like you know, I joke about Jason Isabel, but like just having like a different person to play off of is fun and different opinions.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something I'm also hoping to do more of is more than just artist interviews or me giving my opinion on something on my show, but just talking through, like, you know, having different guests on to talk about different stuff.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: The way the world has changed over the course of the last three plus years and the way that it's affected the music industry and the entertainment industry at large.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: People are consuming things differently, we're creating things differently.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: The society that we live in right now, it's always looking for more things to keep us divided as opposed to keep us united.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I have always viewed music as the great uniter, uh, in a lot of ways.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can have guys that have different sociopolitical views, right or wrong, or I guess maybe left or right, um, depending upon how you want to go into it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: But you can have people from different backgrounds that can unite over a good song.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, with that said, my favorite podcast question that I ask every single one of my guests near the closing of the episode is considering all that and your experience, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than it is today?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you could end with the hard one.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: You should hear UFC fighters answer this question.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty interesting.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, talking about music, and you make a good point there.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like I find putting more kindness and joy into the world uh than even than you take out is always a good way to go.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like having positive interactions to the best of your ability, you know, things like that.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: It uh is always good.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like this is one of the things that I love.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Art in general, but music especially is just like it is a thing that unites people, it is a thing that brings people joy.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Even for me, listening to sad songs when I feel sad, which is a thing that I do, makes me feel better.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it is that communal thing.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am feeling sad with you.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of my favorite artists ever is a band called Fright and Rabbit.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, their lead singer passed away several years ago, but he wrote some of the best fucking sad songs I've ever heard in my life.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I got the opportunity to talk to him a few times, and I just said, like, you know, one of the things that makes me feel better is you're singing about your experience, but he was able to distill those things into a way that is universal, and that makes people more joyful and feel better.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, another thing I thought of while you were talking to that's related is that I love about music that is communal, that unites is live music.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: When you step into a show and it goes from being a bunch of people, a bunch of individuals or couples or groups, into being one organism, one audience that is there together.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And nothing is better than the freaking sing-along song when the one song goes on and everybody knows it.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it's a sing-along or everyone's dancing or whatever, all of a sudden, like everyone is experiencing this together.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a thing that I missed during COVID.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: I miss the kick drum in my chest.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: I missed being around people, people I don't know, but I was having such a great time with.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just happens at every show you go to, but some more than others.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um one of my favorite examples of this is I was at a uh it was actually a it was a Jeff Tweety solo-ish show, not a wheelco show, but he started playing Jesus Jesus, I can't say it.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: He started playing Jesus, etc.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a part where there's whistling, and the whole crowd just started whistling it and humming along, like unprompted, and I got chills.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have chills right now talking about it.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it was just beautiful.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't ask, he didn't say clap along, he didn't say sing if you know it, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um but like he just started strumming the song and singing, and everybody did it, and it was just beautiful, it felt beautiful.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's a thing that I not everybody can pick up a guitar or sing a song or do that thing, but the more anybody can kind of bring people together, I think the better.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love that answer.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: So let everybody know where they can find you and find your podcast.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: That is excellent.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: So my podcast is called Pops and Hisses, and you can check it out on all of the podcast platforms.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can also find it at popsandhisses.com where I have lots of interviews and uh concert reviews and photos and blogs and all kinds of other stuff.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can check me out.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: I am on all of the social platforms, I think, at this point.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh many of them, Instagram and uh Twitter as Omaha MusicGuy, because that's what I set my handle up as a really long time ago.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you can also search my name, Kevin Coffee.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I will be the one that pops up probably most prominent than anything else.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on TikTok and doing a lot of stuff there.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook too.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, man.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: I tell you, we've never got to interact directly, specifically in this format.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a blast.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am glad to know you.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to now call you a friend.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin, the world's a better place with you and it, my friend.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: You as well.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: I so appreciate you having me on.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a great conversation.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: I could talk about this for hours.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: A big thanks to my friend Kevin Coffee for doing the podcast today.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: That was a lot of fun.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Great conversation.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you take him out.com.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Tops and hits the podcast is available.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: On all podcasting platforms, make sure you search him out at all music guy on all social media.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: While you're searching people out on social media, make sure you follow Fox on the mic on all social media platforms.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting more active on YouTube.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've been saying this for three years now.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm finally doing it.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you can watch or let's do it.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a visit www.fart on the mic.com.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Send me an email.com.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's been caught on the mic with Michael Clark.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Michael Clark.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.