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JUST SA Northern Cape - Riaan Warie and Hendrik Louw, and Reratile Mathibe · TIPS Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Trade Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast TIPS Talk.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is the show where we delve into the fascinating world of economics and its impact on global development.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Elise Hutting, and today we are asking why is it important for local and provincial government officials in the northern Cape Province to understand the impacts of climate change and the imperative to decarbonize our economy as well as make that transition just.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: We are finding ourselves again in Kimberley, and I have two really special guests from DDAT, and I think I'm very excited about the opportunities and the confidence and the competitiveness that I've seen in the province over the last two days of our training.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: But we're really looking forward to see how government officials can turn policy into action.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to introduce Mr.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Rian Vari and Hendrik Lowe and ask them just to share a little bit more about their roles within DDAT.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Rian Vari.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the Chief Director for Trade and Sector Development within the Department of Economic Development and Tourism.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Our mandate is basically to promote the province as an ideal trade and investment destination by marketing investment and trade opportunities and also our projects.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: But also the other armies looking at sector development with specific focus on the mining sector, renewable energy sector, as well as the agro processing sector.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Afternoon.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much for the privilege.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: And my name is Henrik Lowe, Northern Cape Department of Economic Development and Tourism.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Current portfolio is looking at regional development, specifically focus on our priority sectors, but also within the context of SADEC, inclusive, then specifically Namambia, Botswana, Northern Cape, Eastern and Western Cape.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So to make this conversation a little bit more interesting, I've heard a lot about how what you have to offer, what the Northern Cape has to offer in terms of your land mass and also your wind and solar generation capacity.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So for me that was really very interesting because we always think about the Western Cape as the forerunners with the wind.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: But share a little bit more with us about your projects, maybe also, you know, the talk of the town on all the hydrogen.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just let us in a little bit on some of the projects that's maybe still in the pipeline being built, but also some that can maybe have some early wins and generate a little bit of turnover for the province, but also jobs.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Brilliant.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: From that promise, I'm maybe gonna go a bit more over arcing, and then I mean Mr.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Wori on the sector specifics is quite pertinent.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Firstly, for us as the Northern Cape, our geospatial location is very important.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: I referred a bit early on to our regional profile, our geospatial mass, if we round it, it's close to 373,000 square kilometers.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: A good preference of this is that we on the western Sidic coastline, 330 kilometers of coastline, but in addition to that is our geospatial placement in relation to Botswana, Namibia, close accessibility then to Angola via Namibia.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then in addition is that Western Cape, Eastern Cape barrier.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now, in the South African context, in terms of the just transition, and noting that we have to really take care of our transition away from fossil and the dependency on our grid, but the new grid frontier to a large extent in these three capes is very important to note that it's a good balance of solar, which has got quite an affordability, and the Northern Cape having around about 11,400 gigawatt of capacity and empirical referenced.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we're also verifying that now via the strategic environmental assessment on just over 194,000 hectares for the Buku Bay development, which Mr.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Warrior will allude to quite extensively.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then in addition, over 800 gigawatt of capacity in terms of wind.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: The beauty of it all is also that notion of a window of overlay.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Radiation, needless to say, God only gave us those many hours of daytime.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: And preferably you want your wind in those downtimes of solar, but the heat radiation complements then also for CSP, PV, wind exposure, complements furthermore with those high levels of radiation and the low cost of PV and our CSP, then to move into a best support systems.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that balance of our resource, but also the intertwined nature of the good wind southern Namibia site from our NAMAP Corridor solution, the Western Cape peaks and valleys that we supplement very fine.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then also in addition from the Eastern Cape site, that exposure.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: But pertinent then from a regional interface is then the interface of sectoral, looking at our mining interface, looking at logistics supporting that, but also agriculture overlaying that gives us as a regional central anchor, a very good interface to start leading in terms of grid, road transport, pipeline interventions, which we've been working on extensively then as well.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that nature is not a nature of competitiveness, it's a nature of regional prioritization, specialization, and harmonization.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: And needless to say, flowing from that then starts coming the N14 corridor, starts coming the Buku Bay Project ETC.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: But on that high note, I want to hand over to Mr.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: Wall.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think Mr.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Loes have indicated basically our provincial strength, looking at our resources, you know, our solar and wind resources.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And based on that, we've developed what we call the Northern Cape Industrial Corridor.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a corridor that starts, if you look at the eastern side of the province in Hottezel, in a place called Katu, where we've got the Katu Industrial Park moving towards Upping the Industrial Park, and then of course the Namakwa SZ and the planned Buchu Bay Port development.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And associated with the Buku Bay Port development is also where we're looking at creating a green hydrogen cluster.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because we've got most of the irradiation or some of the highest irradiation, not just in the country, but also globally, and we are the hub for renewable energy.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: We are looking at setting up a capacity of 40 gigawatt of electrolyzer capacity by 2050 for the province.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And hence the province have developed the Northern Cape Green Hydrogen Master Plan, which basically gives us the roadmap on how we're going to achieve a just transition and how we're going to achieve the implementation of the green hydrogen sector.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: A question for Henrik.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to say, Mr.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Lowe, in terms of your partnerships with the private sector and the investors and the financial mechanisms around supporting these projects, would it be possible for us to maybe share five key points of advice to the other provinces that are also in your shoes and really trying to attract the kind of finance that can unlock these opportunities?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think the first principle is always to have your investment strategy and plan up to line.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: And once again, I'm going to harp on the regional interface.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Buhu Bay is a 40 gig monster, which is a global phenomenon, and that runs into a renewable energy component that's even far bigger.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Pertinent to note though is that it's within the interface of stagger because the global just transition is a term factor and it's a 2050 horizon.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: So from our promises is that we firstly looked at the region and then we localized and we staggered.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that planning, the Green Hydrogen Master Plan, is the pathway.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: But our three Capes model, our Namibian twinning agreement is very important.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: We know that within the South African context, hive in MUCA will lead first currently, and that's the pathway that basically at this stage de-risk.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's in the plan.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then we're looking at the DRI facilitation and the IMO initiative from Soldana.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Staggered within that is the specialization niche of Buhu Bay.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then linking backwards in terms of the iron ore, the manganese, the copper, the new era mineral solutions that we are seeing, but also unlocking the Namibia and Botswana in the same vein from the southern premise of the Sadiq Belt.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: So first point is this get your planning correct.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Get that planning furthermore, introduced into the national scheme of things.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Here, I must say kudos to PCC.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: I must say kudos to and give a shout out to big names like Masopa, Mahandra, Dr.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Rebecca from the IDC side, from the DSI side.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: These are Dr.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Ramachopa's team currently and deputy minister as well in his portfolio, and Nick Burta and his team and Subesh.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: So get it into that mainstream of planning.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think that is very important.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: Get it into the SARM, get it into those audiences of the JetIP.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: So get that planning correct, get that capturant.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: The next situation is just going into those industry partnerships.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you as government can show the steady stream and you can show the introduction and the intertwined nature of the national and the SADIC planning, you will start seeing from, and I must say also then again, I do not want to leave anybody by the side, but from the German government we had tremendous support.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: GIZ, if I must say Alexander Mahler, Thomas Schneider, if I can call all the names, right through from a previous dispensation of Dr.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Schneshel from the department.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: So from the German central government, we've had that tremendous support, mentorship coming forward.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: In the same vein, we had from the Netherlands government tremendous support coming forward and that walking the way with us.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: So build those global partnerships with those countries, European Union, the European Investment Bank, those have been the partnerships that pulled us through, the IMO that pulled us through.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: From the United States, we even had support.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: From Japan, we had support.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I think building those national and international partnerships then and getting into that knowledge pool and then also getting into those value chain pools becomes very important.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: And flowing, needless to say, from there, you get the KVFW banks that come into play.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: The Japanese co-investment, the EIB, Nadesh, if I have to come to mind, from the British, the UK pack site, we saw that investment.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: So their funding starts flowing in de-risk through studies.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then you start moving into the private sector partners because ultimately I must give a big outside.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: I said Nucha at that station, I said Soldana.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: But remember that the actual barrier breaker here in South Africa was the Prisca Power Reserve.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: So that project, very good solar and wind overlay with a confined footprint then going directly into ammonia, that then, furthermore, go into the notion of fertilizer capacity, but transport hauling, pit-to-port operations being de-risking that for us for carbon emissions.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: So then you get like the notions of a Prisca power reserve, a Martin and Meta moving in aggressively with a vision.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: We start moving into a SASL.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: SASEL was a big donor funder for us at the end of the day to do the master plan.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: And just bringing them along was quite pertinent.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: We started moving with Taru and them from Ziemens.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: That was tremendous benefit that we received and guideline what they were able to open up for us.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: To syncup in our partnerships with them at that stage.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Then we started working with the Japanese OEMs.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Tremendous breakthroughs that we received from that side as well.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then last but not least, you must start moving into that financiers because you got these companies, you start having concept, but now you must move into business plan and final business plan.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where the local partnerships is important because your global partners must work through a face break, if I may say that, i.e.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: DBSA IDC.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Our private banks, I must say kudos to DeVos and his team at a standard bank.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: InvestFact starting reaching out.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: So your commercial banks also coming in because you need to get that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And the last principle that comes into play very strongly there for us, though, is it's all good and well, but we're doing it within a global just transition.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: We should never underestimate that fossil is hanging on.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: It is an asset, it's a price-reduced asset, it's got existing infrastructure, it's got a competitive notion, it's going to continue.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's also a transition process, i.e., gas will take the next step.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: But we need to start looking at how do we introduce the technology to be affordable and accessible and the distribution of that energy resource, i.e.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: green hydrogen.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: So that whole pathway you have to build up at the end of the day to give the surety of the investment to get to a zero-based investment plan.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Transmission grit, transport grit, all of those issues that speak to one another.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then you need the buyings of an Anglo-American that's starting to say a lady like Pumi saying, okay, I'm buying in on this thing.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: This is what I'm going to do.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: You get a copper mine in Kimberley that can produce the first green diamonds, basically, literally 93% green carrots.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: This is the binds that you have to create with them then at the end of the day.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: But that long essence of flow is where you get to.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then we must also understand all of us want it to happen by 2027.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: But the global process of accepting that is a bit more delayed with the current global turmoil and the financing.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think the pressures are a bit high, the South African economy repositioning itself.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: But even in repositioning ourselves, we reposition in terms of JET.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the important thing for us.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because then skills will follow, then infrastructure will follow, and then communities will find it as a viable solution for where they are in the economy and the social impact assessment notion.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: And they wouldn't mind a boom town.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: And they will also see that it's a just process that will not just extract.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think important in this is that you must always take the communities along.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you're going to lose them down the line.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because you need to engage on a constant basis with your stakeholders, with your communities, with workers, with your SMMEs.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Explain to them what are the benefits, but also receiving their input so that all affected groups can create their own pathway towards the just transition.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that lay of the land.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's very clear that in concluding our conversation today, no man is an island.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: We can't do this alone.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for sharing the strategic partnerships, the points that we can take to heart, and back to the drawing board for some provinces to really maybe lean on you in terms of your support and your strategies, and you've come so far.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: We wish you all of the best of your projects, and we're looking forward in the next 25 years to see all the fruit of your labor, the labor of love, but may it be really a prosperous opportunity for the people that live in the Northern Cape.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So today, again, a very special guest is with us, Mrs.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Ratile Matibe.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she would like to introduce a little bit more around her role working at DDAT.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome and thank you for joining us.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, Elise.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: To everybody that's listening, I'm Reratile.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm responsible for economic research at the Department of Economic Development and Tourism here in the Northern Cape.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hot day in Kimberley, but we get by.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Primary work within the Economic Research and Policy Development Unit is a focus on the research agenda of the province.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the research agenda encompasses national priorities in regards to the National Development Plan and other development plans that are in place.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: A hot day indeed.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, it's always really great to feel the heat and the energy and the potential of the renewable energy resources that's within the Northern Cape.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know that some of your colleagues were very proud and confident about the capacity of megawatt that you have to offer this country for a just transition energy resource.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you'd like to share a little bit more about maybe what stood out for you from the topics that we've actually been discussing in terms of the just transition and the implications for the Northern Cape, if you feel that there's more opportunities than challenges, you're very welcome to share with us.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, with regards to the past two days, they've been very insightful, particularly understanding the emphasis on the just element of the transition into a decarbonized economy.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is easy for people to get excluded on many domains of life.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: We know that, particularly the economy.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we are a young democracy that is still dealing with deep-rooted systematic inequalities.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And with any transition, we risk more people being left behind.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I believe the presented proposed interventions for a just transition have a practical design for implementation, and that is a reassuring notion.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, with regards to the opportunities, particularly I believe for the Northern Cape, moving towards climate smart agriculture will be good for us.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: It will mean expanding the agriculture sector.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: We do know the Northern Cape is the second lowest unemployment rate in South Africa.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And of those 147,000 unemployed people, 44% of them have been in work before.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And of that 44%, you have 20% that is working in or having worked in agriculture, and that makes up about 13,000 people, which is 10% of the unemployment rate.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So a booming agricultural industry that is in an environment that's conducive will do a lot towards employment in our province.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that because I do believe with climate smart agriculture, there's a world of opportunities for especially small-scale farmers, also your emerging farmers, to adopt green technology such as solar pumps and looking at also significant climate impacts that drought could be imposing to the province and be more sustainable in terms of their energy access.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Would you see some of the kind of programs and awareness and adaption of the climate smart agricultural practices?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see that unfolding in the Northern Cape?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: How I see it unfolding would be just through support of current existing farms, support of farmers, allow them to expand in itself.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the most important thing would be a conducive environment.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: You did state the environmental vulnerabilities that exist.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with the decarbonization, it will be a friendly environment for the farming industry to thrive.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we've also had some discussions with provincial offices in different areas of the country, the Eastern Cape, especially Free State and to Western Cape province.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the views was that the technologies to adapt for a climate-smart agricultural practice comes at a high cost.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Have you come across any programs or subsidies or how would you support your farming industry to actually access these technologies and finance them?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think with technology, apart from the startup capital of incorporating any of these programs, the largest part of it would be buy-in by the stakeholders, getting the farmers to understand how it's going to benefit them.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think then the technologies can be rolled out into place.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can reach out to national government for funding projects and roll them out to the farmers.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you can get their buy-in, that's the most likely chance that you have of success.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's lots of work lying ahead.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: When you head back to the office on Monday, how do you see like the next steps of your role and what we've been discussing in terms of just transition policies at DDAT?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see your role going forward as a leader in the space supporting the just transition in the Northern Cape?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think how I see my role specifically evolving or having been changed, or in addition to it, I would say it's with regards to the department's research agenda.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: On our research agenda, we have a number of research priorities, but the green economy in itself is not necessarily a major part of it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: We did do a research project on green hydrogen and the Bukubai port, getting the transportation of the hydrogen in itself.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: But with regards to the green economy and how it affects, particularly an area of interest for me that I'm passionate about is skills in itself.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think getting a research study for the province on the transition of skills or how skills will evolve within the decarbonized economy, that will be one way of how it will impact my work going forward.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big challenge, but I like to hear the confidence that you have in taking on this challenge.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we wish you really all of the best.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we look forward to stay in contact with you through the community of practice.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for your time.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: That wraps up today's episode.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: A huge thanks to our guests for sharing their expertise, time with us, and attending this training.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you will continue to champion the mandate of greening the economy in a just and equitable way.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And to our listeners, your support means the world.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, sustainable growth is not just a goal, but a path to a more resilient and prosperous future.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and connect with us on social media.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, I'm your host, Elise Hutting, signing off.