Latest / Identity at the Center / #12 - Battling the Resistance

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#12 - Battling the Resistance · Identity at the Center

0:06
Do you know who has access to what this is?
0:08
The identity at the center podcast?
0:10
If you're looking for identity and access management talk
0:13
you've come to the right place and now on to the show, Welcome
0:25
to the identity of the sender podcasts.
0:27
I'm Jeff, that's Jim, I'm Jim, you are Jim sitting here in
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sweltering, hot Georgia, Jeff, it is September 13th, is 95
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degrees outside, it's it's not great.
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This is an air conditioning all day and go outside and it's like
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when is fall going to be here. You and I are going to be in
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Boston next week and I was informed.
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It's going to be in the 90s in Boston.
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In late September. I just don't get it.
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I don't like it. I do.
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I find this completely unacceptable and I'm very
1:00
excited. You know, me, right?
1:02
Tech kind of nerd guy, right? Sony has a personal air
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conditioner t-shirt that they're coming out with and I cannot
1:11
wait for something like that to become more mainstream.
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It's going to start in Japan. I think it is later this year is
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like a Kickstarter or Indiegogo, but I'm hopeful that stuff like
1:20
that. I'm all about the personal
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climate control. Absolutely you and Your personal
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fan. Yeah, exactly.
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Yeah. You know, I got an observation
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to share with your jeff which is that I believe you have a
1:33
resistance to heat and humidity you're resisting.
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I am resistant to it, I do not like it.
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It is not my thing. I am a cold-weather bird.
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I would much rather it be 30 degrees then 80 degrees believe
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it or not. You know, I was kind of leading
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into our conversation as looking at a Really good blog with the
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reasons people resist change. And I'm thinking one of the
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reasons that you're resistant to hot weather is that you were not
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being consulted. You are not consulted on on
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whether or not it's not whether was any good.
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Yeah, that's that's playwright and no one no one ran this by me
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I would have e towed it. I would have I would have
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provided some input into hopefully influencing the
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decision to be made that that temperature was unacceptable.
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And would need to be revised. Our for that is that is right
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there. Jim that is professional
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podcast, segue magic that you just did.
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All right, that's my specialty. Have you done this before?
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Yeah, I think we're on episode twelve, so over 12.
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Yeah, so we're going to talk about change hon battling
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resistance against kind of change against the.
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I am world I guess can come in many forms, many reasons, right?
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Things like no funding. I don't know why I need it.
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You know what is this thing? We're trying to do.
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Or maybe you've already got something in place and she's not
2:57
getting used things like that. You guys think coming up in a
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couple of our projects recently, which is your customers or
3:05
clients who have deployed, I am tools Risa certain level of
3:11
success and then they're having trouble moving forward.
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And so, you know, the two major examples that I'm probably going
3:19
to keep referencing back to is first in the privileged access
3:24
management space Where, you know, organizations stand up for
3:27
great privileged access management tool.
3:30
And the people who need to use it are tremendously resistant
3:35
and they're finding every reason that is not going to work.
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The second area is in you know whether its identity Governor's
3:43
or kind of single sign-on or you know access management General,
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you've got kind of the big gorilla applications in the
3:53
organization's or Pig. Large groups that are saying,
3:56
don't touch my application and I'm trending to both of these
4:00
types of situations a few times in my career.
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And so I'd like to know as the pod great podcast progresses
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kind of talk about things I've done that I think can really
4:12
help our listeners kind of take on those types of resistance.
4:16
Yeah and I think there's definitely some creative ways to
4:18
solve that and it's some stuff that you know I've done in the
4:20
past as program management maybe we should start.
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With why is there resistance and the way that I was thinking
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about it was I kind of bucket of things into kind of three major
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categories. There's Financial there's
4:33
personal and their strategic. So for my financial standpoint,
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you know, why would someone resist doing something in the IM
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space? And this probably isn't specific
4:41
either tie Em Right? Probably apply to anything but
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we're and I am podcast. We're going to focus on the I Am
4:45
side. Yeah first thing for a financial
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right, can we afford this? Can't afford it, we don't have
4:50
the funding, don't want to do something you know to solve this
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issue. That's come up.
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You know, maybe we don't need it.
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There's no /. You know, there's no realization
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of what is the benefit. Why do we need to do that?
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So therefore, we're not going to do the funding or maybe in this
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came up earlier this week. With one of the clients I'm
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working with, you know, what's the return on the investment?
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A lot of people are looking for. Okay.
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How does this save us money? You know, maybe maybe it does.
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Maybe it doesn't, right? So there could be a few
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different Financial things, I think about it from a personal
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standpoint. There's, there's a fear that
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comes along sometimes with I am right job loss.
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This is going to automate me out of a position kingdoms crumble,
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maybe internally. Right?
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You may be built a team or an organization that has a lot of
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head count. And maybe there's some fear
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around, losing some of that Kingdom because, you know, you
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can lose familiarity with existing processes on the
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personal side. So you know how to do it today
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and this is the way it works, right?
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I'm not going to switch to a smartphone because my flip phone
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is works just fine for me. Never mind, all the benefits.
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I'll get, you know, out of moving to, you know, the new
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technology this is what I like in this isn't.
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I'm not willing to make a change, you know, could be
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things around red tape. Other in a fish's in
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efficiencies and it probably strikes kind of what you were
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talking about the privileged access management site, right?
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It's this is just another step. I have to go through to get what
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I need or there's no, why am I doing this?
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Because it's just an efficient perception of it and then I'm
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from the Strategic side, I'm thinking, you know, it doesn't
6:23
align with business, needs you Are we doing this?
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It doesn't make any sense strategically as an
6:28
organization. Why do we need this or my
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favorite it's--, going to handle it toss it over the it wall.
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Itu figured out all of a sudden I've got a whole bunch of Heroes
6:39
on the it side. I am heroics as I like to call
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it who are making things happen. Despite, you know, the the lack
6:46
of Investments, you know, whether its Financial or even
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just, you know, thought leadership on the business side
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to help with, you know, fixing problems.
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As maybe that don't work, what do you thinking?
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I think you raised a lot of the same points that probably are
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going to be in what I have to say.
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So I'll try not to repeat a lot of what you're saying because I
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agree with where you're coming from, you know, the angle that I
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chose to look at resistance, is that resistance to, I am a lot
7:15
like resistance to change as human being.
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So we kind of view the world. It's really human beings
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interacting and as human beings who are Putting up the
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resistance. It it's kind of like, you know,
7:28
how in our practice, we have that slide which is the top 10
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reasons. I am projects fail and if you
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trace those back, there are all the same reasons, almost all
7:38
projects fail, right. And not that is not a creative
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side or that it's not true. It's just it's the same reasons.
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Things fail in other IT projects or other projects.
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Ihr projects are financed. Projects are similar are the
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same reasons. I am projects fail foremost for
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the most part and I think the reason people resist change in,
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I am ties back a lot to why they resist change everywhere.
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And so I found this really cool blog, which I would like to link
8:06
in the show notes, but I'm going to go through a few of these and
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see which one's resonating just kind of.
8:14
Let me know if you hear one. Do you want to kind of talk
8:17
about the first is misunderstanding about the need
8:19
for change when the reason for change is unclear.
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So I think that's kind What you are saying where they're not
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people are not really sure of like, what is the benefit here?
8:29
Fear of the unknown? I think this is a big one,
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especially for I am and IT projects, which is like, okay,
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you're bringing up something like privileged access
8:39
management. What does that?
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Even what does that even really mean?
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I'm scared of that. I think you know in life we can
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be scared of the unknown and I think certainly when it comes to
8:50
I am projects the same kind of thing is like people need to be
8:54
educated. Dated about it.
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And you know, the only thing is it just education.
9:00
So if you're not a trusted source of information, if you
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haven't kind of established that yes I actually do what I'm doing
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and that people believe that, then they may not even trust you
9:12
as a source of expertise in something.
9:16
So again this is kind of going all the way back to you.
9:19
Like the human psychic psychology aspect.
9:23
Yeah. Number Lack of competence.
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So, this kind of goes back to what I was talking about the big
9:31
gorillas where, you know, so one of the things I've run into with
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some of my clients is that they'll have a major I am
9:39
system, that is, as achieved a certain level of success, and
9:43
now, they've reach out to the big gorilla.
9:45
Like the big Erp system or the big EMR system and their
9:50
organization. They want to pull that in to the
9:52
IMs here and they say good, we Can integrate with your
9:57
application for provisioning and we can you know suck out all the
10:02
entitlements is going to be great.
10:03
We're going to take all this work, off your shoulders and
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they say you know you don't know how how much work does this
10:11
really is like you're not you don't have the confidence to
10:14
take over what we do. It's it's complex you don't get
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the problem and so just kind of getting into one of the ways I
10:22
think to combat that. Is, okay, so let's take the IGA,
10:27
for example. So, starting with IGA, I like
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to, like, let's walk before we can run.
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So let's start at a very low touch operation.
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Let's start collecting accounts, entitlements.
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And showing that we can build the one place to go to know who
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has access to what. Let's get the account.
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Those correlate them to identities and then we have a
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picture of what access a person has system from as far.
10:54
Far as like any kind of risk that you could be putting toward
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that IGA system. It's minimal because all you're
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doing is kind of read. You have a kind of read only
11:04
access and then you start stepping into more advanced
11:08
features and you show that look, we actually do have competence.
11:12
We are able to, you know, integrate with your assistant
11:16
without breaking things without taking your system down, you're
11:19
not now at the mercy of of our system being available in order
11:24
to You or maybe you are at the mercy as you get into
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provisioning and access requests and things like that, even more
11:31
like single sign-on but we've now had an opportunity to prove
11:36
ourselves by stepping through this that, you know, we as we
11:39
took on more and more risk but some are more and more
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functionality. We've shown success.
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So it's kind of the way I like to approach that kind of Fear
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Factor that level of resistance because it's like, okay, Jeff
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has come a long. Now, all of a sudden You were so
11:55
surprised visionnaire accounts first off, I don't know that
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Jeff even has the capability second off.
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I don't know if his systems even going to be reliable.
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I'm the last thing I want to do is hand over some function.
12:06
That is critical for me to provide a service of the
12:09
business. And I don't know if Jeff can
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really do it. And so then Jeff comes and says,
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well, let you know, I've got a responsibility to business to
12:19
which is to show, you know, to have one place to go to new as
12:22
access to what let me in. Used get a file feed, or let me
12:26
at least, have a read-only account to a database to
12:29
database you to pull the accounts and tyrants.
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And then we look at me very well.
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You know, this is going to keep Jeff happy, let's give them
12:37
that, but it gives you an opportunity.
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First off, it does provide real value because now you see what
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people have access to in the big rule application as well as all
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the other applications. But to it's like, okay look,
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that wasn't so bad. We're able to connect.
12:53
It wasn't so bad. You know, build that trust,
12:55
right? I mean it's that that that
12:57
competence factor, I see it, going both ways.
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So the confidence to be able to do what you're say, you're going
13:03
to do right here is all the features and I think that's part
13:05
of you know, good program management is managing the
13:08
expectations, right? Because you know you don't want
13:11
to over promise and under deliver if anything under
13:14
promise and over deliver, that's kind of my motto.
13:16
So you know what, you know, build that trust with the
13:19
organization that you can do it, you're gonna say, do, but also
13:22
from the resistance and the chain standpoint I see.
13:24
The other side to where the way that you've been doing your
13:28
work, right? If you're a recipient of these
13:30
kind of new things that are coming from, I am you've got to
13:33
be able to adapt and change the times, right?
13:35
Maybe you've been working in a manual mode and creating sap
13:39
accounts, you know, for the last 10 years and now there's a, you
13:42
know, a better way to automate it and make it more efficient.
13:45
Sometimes your skill sets are going to have to evolve with the
13:48
organization and I think sometimes, you know, people fear
13:51
that on the other side of things too, is they're not willing to
13:54
make that change. JH, which is unfortunate.
13:56
And sometimes that leads to casualties and the war on the, I
14:00
Am side but if people are willing to change their skills
14:05
or update their skills to keep up with times, you know, I think
14:08
that that may help sometimes with that just, it's an
14:11
unfortunate as a sad thing, sometimes people can can't or
14:16
won't change their own skill set to keep Pace with where the
14:18
organization is going, and that's just something to be
14:20
aware of, so I can you just nailed the the skill of the
14:24
Ultimate podcast Segway is number four was connected to the
14:29
old way. You know, people who have
14:31
emotional connections or are kind of hardwired to the way
14:35
they've been doing things and now all of a sudden you're
14:39
asking them to do things in a new way.
14:43
I also think you know I was thinking about a lot of
14:45
automation over time has obsoleted manual ways of doing
14:51
things right? And some people don't people are
14:54
afraid To be obsoleted, right? Especially if they really, like
14:58
the job, they have or really connected to the job.
15:01
They have, they don't want to see that go away.
15:04
They like maybe answering the phones and or getting the facts
15:07
tickets and punching in, you know, user account and there's
15:12
fewer and fewer places that do that, but I guess I'm getting as
15:15
connected to the old way, is another form of resistance,
15:19
makes a lot of sense. Yeah, about the next one, which
15:22
is low. Trust, People don't believe that
15:26
they or the company can confidently, manage change.
15:29
So this is another one where you know, in that privileged access
15:32
management competency that I talk about a lot of times
15:37
talking about a group of folks who are tasked with running your
15:42
server environment, where your network environment or anything,
15:47
it was kind of that core infrastructure.
15:49
Anywhere that you want to roll out privileged access management
15:53
and those people are Responsible for keeping systems online.
15:58
And if this is some sort down there, you know, penalize her
16:02
not doing their job. And here you come along, and you
16:06
want to take over how they sign into this application and now
16:10
their success and being able to do their job is dependent on you
16:15
and this technology that you're going to roll up, making it, you
16:18
know, the sound very bad but at some level it is like if you're
16:22
privileged access management system, To go down for an hour.
16:26
They had a server outage of, they need to get to servers and
16:29
couldn't get passwords. Potentially could be interfering
16:33
with their ability to do their job.
16:35
And so my kind of solution to this one is I really feel like
16:40
those system teams can or in some cases should on privileged
16:46
access management and at the I am team should provide a support
16:50
function or you know, at least a checks.
16:54
And balances to what that team does with the system.
16:58
So you know this will not be the right solution for everybody but
17:02
if you're facing a lot of resistance where say the Windows
17:05
Server team or the Linux server team, you know, doesn't want to
17:09
get on board with using from The Jacksons measure and they're
17:11
constantly trying to look for work around so that they're not
17:15
dependent on your system. And your system is not as
17:18
effective. One way that you could try to
17:20
address. That is put that team in charge
17:23
of the camp. System is like Guys, this is a
17:25
utility for you and what we look at us as part of the team who
17:31
can help make it more effective. No, from a from a security
17:35
standpoint. I think most managers over a
17:38
server support team, even service support team of, you
17:42
know, hundreds of Administrators is going to want to know that.
17:46
You know, we when somebody leaves the organization, they're
17:50
not a threat and that we are doing some logging of what
17:53
people are doing. Doing.
17:55
But, at the same time, even though I want those things, I
17:59
don't want to compromise my ability to deliver the services
18:02
that I'm tasked with delivering. So, if you put me in charge of
18:07
the system, if I can be the person who makes sure that that
18:10
system is working, I own it. That is a potential solution to
18:16
making me feel more secure and getting over this low trust
18:21
hurdle we talked about from a resistance standpoint.
18:24
Yeah, there are Movement right? Making them part of the process.
18:27
Yeah. We got to be open to making
18:29
changes based on feedback from that, too.
18:31
I think that's one thing to think about from from and I am
18:33
program perspective is to not be stuck on your path recognize
18:39
when there are changes and suggestions that are good,
18:42
right? And will make things easier and
18:43
will help with adoption. Don't be so regimented in your
18:47
approach that this is the way we have to do it, right?
18:49
It's okay. Yeah, that's a great idea.
18:50
Let's figure out how to incorporate that.
18:52
So if you involve the people, right and take Their feedback
18:55
and actually incorporate it that I think that helps drive that
18:57
change as well. Yeah.
19:00
So the next one will hear is temporary fad and wasn't sure
19:03
how to associate this one but internet's a fad, you know what
19:07
Jeff? I mean it's a good joke, right?
19:10
Internet some fat obviously it doesn't make sense.
19:12
Say the iPhone is a fact I think the first iPhone came out 12
19:17
years ago, listen to Joe Rogan podcast.
19:20
I'm not that I'm, I'm trying to advertise for another podcast,
19:23
right? But Jose he has a podcast.
19:27
A lot of people tend to listen to it.
19:30
Anyway the iPhones been out for 12 years think of how much it
19:34
seems to have changed over the per day.
19:37
I mean in some ways, it's kind of the same thing, but in other
19:40
ways it's so much more advanced and you know I think in the I am
19:44
space there is like with open our minds to the fact that yeah,
19:48
we're here every day and it doesn't seem like it's
19:51
revolutionising overnight but we keep seeing These things pop up
19:56
where you know for example there's like the the typing type
20:04
of multi-factor authentication so it's looking.
20:07
So is that something that's? Yeah, he sure.
20:10
Okay, Jay couldn't even think of the name of it.
20:13
But yeah I mean to me and the only reason I'm bringing it up
20:21
is like is it a fad? Well, we don't know yet.
20:24
But it's pretty good going to try to, you know, get your users
20:28
to accept something out. The good thing about that
20:30
product, is it really does need to be accepted by user is
20:34
happening in the background. But you know, is this something
20:39
that's going to be around for a long time?
20:40
I don't know, or is it just a fad anyway so that way I'm going
20:43
to skip that one because I don't think that's one of the main
20:46
reasons for resistance, but when I think it comes, I am right?
20:51
I think there are some things that are relatively mature but
20:54
there are components of I am that are still being worked out.
20:58
You mentioned like the Biometrics right with the
21:00
keystroke one, you know. I think there's still people
21:03
searching for a reason to use blockchain.
21:04
For example, right, is that a sad?
21:07
I don't know. It's pretty early, you know, you
21:09
know, I think that's a conversation that we might
21:11
tackle, you know, in a future episode in more detail.
21:15
But I think there are components that are pretty solid
21:19
fundamental, right automation? But I think there are some
21:22
things where we're not sure yet. If it if it is a At or not, take
21:25
some time to bake. That's true.
21:27
That's true. And, you know, some things
21:29
around for five years, it's not considered a fat, I think, in
21:33
this space. But you think about the course
21:35
of human history or the to do the course of computers.
21:39
Even, that's it's a blip right? Well, bottoms were popular in
21:43
the 70s, right? And then I go, Who would wear
21:45
those in the 80s and 90s and then they started to come back
21:48
again. So, right?
21:49
It's cyclical. So, the next one on the list in
21:53
this really good blog. Ugh is not being consulted and I
21:57
think this is something we see all the time where you know,
22:00
people feel like hey if I wasn't brought in to help to find the
22:04
problem and to find them solution then I'm not going to
22:09
agree with it but that's not always the case but I do see
22:13
that pop up a lot fact I'd say within our advisory Services
22:16
area. One of the things that we do say
22:19
get lots of people involved if you're not sure involve them, at
22:23
least get there. You of what is the problem, then
22:27
they're more likely to be onboard with the solution
22:31
because I think that it's easy to go out when you're doing an
22:35
advisory sales pitch. For example, people want to know
22:38
what is it that you guys do and we say, well we put together a
22:43
strategy that's going to achieve by in the questions.
22:46
Like well how are you going to do that?
22:48
I think to get buy-in to the solution, people have to feel
22:53
like they were part. Part of the definition of the
22:56
problem. So you guys are the industry and
22:59
other words. So if I'm in the seat of one of
23:01
these people, you guys are the industry experts.
23:03
And let me tell you about how things are here.
23:06
What my problem is and what I want to see improved and then if
23:11
you can come back later and say you said a b, c d, e f and
23:17
here's how we're going to solve each one of those problems.
23:20
Okay. If I truly believe you're the
23:23
experts or at your What you're saying seems logical.
23:26
And you well thought through and you give me an opportunity to
23:29
ask questions, I'll buy in because I was part of the / part
23:33
of the definition of the problem.
23:36
Yeah. It's that involvement, right
23:38
helps. So if they're part of that part
23:40
of that discussion, I think sometimes, you know, you just
23:42
want people's voices to be heard, right?
23:45
And and maybe that's what they're looking for.
23:46
To, did you take it? Did you take us into account?
23:49
Or did you forget about us? And I think if you can
23:51
demonstrate that yeah you know what you were part of the part
23:53
of the Process. You know we heard you and here's
23:56
how we're going to solve your specific problems.
23:59
I think that's a powerful message that comes out of the
24:01
program itself, right? Making sure that you know from a
24:04
program management standpoint, you are listening to your
24:06
constituents, right? You're out there shaking hands,
24:10
you know, kissing babies, all the stuff that you need to do on
24:12
the politics politics side of, I am program management.
24:16
Making sure that people's voices are heard and that you're
24:19
recognizing that absolutely. So the next one is poor
24:22
communication. Probably is It's just, it's
24:25
self-evident, isn't it? When it comes to change
24:27
management, their hands fingers too much communication?
24:30
I mean, what if what are some of your experiences with this?
24:34
Yeah, I mean it's a lot of it and I'll go back to, you know,
24:37
help desk days. Where what do you mean there's
24:40
this new process, right? People aren't aware of it or oh,
24:43
this is how we're doing this now.
24:45
I wasn't aware that this is, you know, the way that we reset our
24:48
new passwords or, you know, things like that.
24:51
How do I request access a lot of the stuff, you know.
24:53
It's The communication needs to be pretty open and clear, but
24:58
you have to make sure that your Communications are tailored for
25:00
your audience, right? You're going to, you're going to
25:01
talk a different way to your c-suite.
25:04
Your Executives, on how things are supposed to work versus
25:08
somebody who may be working on a line, right?
25:10
So if you're bottling, you know, Windex and you need access to a
25:15
terminal machine that's on that line.
25:17
There's going to be a different communication style and approach
25:19
because people have different levels of understanding between
25:23
what are the services you're providing.
25:24
You know, how do they take advantage of those Services Etc.
25:27
So I think you need to make sure that when you're communicating
25:30
you're thinking about all of these different things and it
25:33
stretches across the organization, I always used to
25:35
hate it. When people would throw things
25:38
in a production and it was okay you know IDM and you guys figure
25:41
out how you're going to support it.
25:42
Well, how come you didn't include us as part of that
25:45
process? We could help make sure that the
25:47
process you're thinking about actually do make sense in the
25:50
real world. So you want to make sure that
25:52
you've got your Ops Team, you know, part of that.
25:54
That part of that communication path as well, but make sure your
25:57
end users know about the services.
25:59
Right? I mean that that's going to help
26:00
the adoption as well, you know. Yeah, just make sure people know
26:04
about it and I don't think anyone has ever complained about
26:06
too much communication especially in an organization
26:10
where sometimes that there is not enough communication
26:13
historically, maybe not for your own project, but maybe for other
26:16
things, I think people just want to be informed great.
26:18
And this I think poor communication is really
26:23
highlighted when Talking about change resistance that's
26:27
happening in the end user population.
26:29
So you're rolling out some kind of change a new single sign-on
26:32
system that's going to affect hundreds or thousands of people
26:36
or, you know, I guess our case where you could be affecting
26:39
millions of people and all of a sudden they end up on the
26:42
screen, they don't know what to do.
26:44
And they don't feel like they knew this was coming, right?
26:46
It's a bad experience. One of the things that this
26:49
whole discussion reminded me of though, is that, you know, from
26:53
a project management Judgment standpoint.
26:55
If you're managing an IM project one, you should have an
26:59
organizational change management plan other words.
27:02
How are the changes that you're implementing going to affect
27:06
your end, users? Not just your end users, but
27:09
every party that gets affected. I'm really trying to think of
27:12
that, from a 360-degree perspective, the second thing is
27:17
usually in a more advanced sdlc. The communication plan is going
27:23
to be separate from Word change plan.
27:25
So have a separate communication.
27:27
It just shows you how important communication is in that, you
27:31
know, the idea that you can't over communicate, there's no
27:34
such thing, right? And this isn't something that's
27:37
easy, right? Sometimes you mean I have, you
27:38
know, who you need to communicate to you, and you're
27:40
going to have to, you know, talk with different folks and make
27:43
sure that you try and get as much feedback as possible, but
27:46
it's not an easy thing, but it's a necessary thing to have a
27:50
successful program, right? You know, I think there are a
27:52
couple other other Good points in here, but I'm going to go
27:55
through them because we're getting a little long here
27:58
changes to routine. So that's impact of people.
28:01
He used to doing things a certain way and all of a sudden
28:04
you're changing the way they have to do it, but they don't
28:07
see that changes beneficial to them or, you know, saving them
28:10
time, or they like it better, for whatever reason.
28:13
That can be, you know, you can please resistance, exhaustion
28:19
saturation. So, this is something big that
28:21
we've run into. I think with a lot of our
28:23
clients was that, There's so much change going on.
28:26
In the it environment and information workers are getting
28:30
like Deluge with new systems upgrades and things and they
28:34
wind up spending a big part of their day.
28:37
Just dealing with you know dealing with it change and then
28:42
you come along with one more thing and they're going to be
28:45
resistant to that because it's like stop, let's slow down.
28:49
I've got a job to do so I think that's where that part of
28:53
change. Management.
28:55
Can or resistance to change can come up with I am changing the
28:59
Status Quo so resistance can also stem from perceptions of
29:04
the change that people hold for example people who feel that
29:08
they'll be worse off. At the end of the change are
29:10
unlikely to give their full support you know.
29:13
There's a going back to that Pam example.
29:16
Like you know if you don't see a problem with the way things are
29:20
working today, if you're a system administrator and you log
29:23
into 1,000 servers, using the same.
29:26
Username password. If not a problem for you.
29:29
Yeah. How am I going to benefit from?
29:31
You locking my account in a vault and I don't know the
29:35
password for it. How does that help me?
29:37
Write it helps you because it makes the organization more
29:40
secure and we're less likely that had been, you know, for to
29:45
be your fault but, you know, we're less what so it's to look
29:48
for those reasons why, you know, changing the Status Quo actually
29:53
provides you better than the last One is benefits rewards,
29:56
which is that when people don't understand what is the benefit,
30:01
whether it's kind of an intrinsic benefit or not, you
30:06
know, do how are they benefiting or how the organization
30:10
benefiting when you're, you know, this, as far as I see, the
30:14
process is not better for me. So, what is the benefit?
30:18
Why do I need this? What am I?
30:19
What is the what is? Why is this good for me?
30:21
I think that's really what it comes down to, right?
30:25
So why do I need to do this? I think there's it leaders.
30:28
We have to be open to the idea that we're going to Market.
30:31
Our are changes in our, you know, we're going to push change
30:34
on the organization. We have to be open to the idea
30:37
that we're going to Market and convince people that it's
30:40
actually a good idea. I don't think we should be
30:43
resistant to that, that thought. I think we should be willing to,
30:49
you know, take the time to really make sure that we
30:51
understand the benefits, and that we are, you know, bounce.
30:54
Going up against the wall with people who can question them.
30:58
And then we go out to the broader audience and and Market
31:01
that hey, this is going to provide a benefit to you or to
31:05
the organization or to our customers and therefore, it's
31:08
worth. You putting up with the, you
31:11
know, what you see is? The downside of the change,
31:14
right? Yeah.
31:14
And if you got data around that I think that helps to sometimes
31:17
that you may not have something like oh this is going to save,
31:20
you know, this much time or this much costs, you know?
31:24
On the way we do business, sometimes you can't calculate
31:27
the benefits and it's things like, yeah, we just know that
31:30
it's a better easier, more secure process, right?
31:32
Sometimes that's hard to calculate and sometimes it goes
31:34
back to the right to the return on the investment, you know, the
31:38
side of it. But understanding that and
31:41
selling it, I'm a big fan of treating.
31:43
I am like a product, even if it's a product that is internal,
31:47
right? Your customers are going to be
31:50
your co-workers, contractors vendors, whoever is sitting
31:53
inside. Add the firewall so to speak,
31:55
you know, not traditionally, true customers, who might be,
31:58
you know, more of a b2c use case, right, where you're
32:00
dealing with folks that are not working for your company, but if
32:03
you can take the mindset of this is, this is my, I am product.
32:08
I think that goes a long way to helping with a lot of these
32:11
different areas, you know, communicating it understanding
32:14
the benefits for of it before it and being able to Market it and
32:18
sell it to people and and you know, sometimes you need to take
32:21
a Grassroots approach to some time.
32:24
Taking a top-down executive approach may not be as
32:27
effective. Maybe you want to get some
32:28
admins involved and say, hey, I know you're typically putting in
32:32
a bunch of forms for, you know, adds and removes every week.
32:36
What if I had a better way for you to do that, right?
32:38
And you start working with folks on the ground level and help
32:41
them understand the value. And you kind of tackle it from
32:43
both sides. I think sometimes that helps
32:46
helps get that benefit statement out there.
32:48
So people understand why this is helpful for them.
32:51
I also like our neighboring bribery is a good one, okay?
32:54
If you can well you I mean is it a jokingly?
32:57
But you've had some thoughts. Killer ideas are some killer
33:00
experiences in terms of running contests and giving away, you
33:05
know, are pods or whatever having contests going to talk
33:10
about that a little bit? Yeah I mean so I think the one
33:13
that probably stands out the most for me would be you know we
33:17
launched a self-service password reset capability and the
33:21
enrollment in the system was not where he wanted it to be.
33:24
Was pretty low as only like, 30 or 40 percent.
33:26
I think so we did was okay. Well, how do we solve that?
33:29
I thought was okay. Well, iPad was new at the time,
33:33
right? New technology.
33:34
It cost a few hundred bucks. It was like four or five hundred
33:37
bucks at the time. What if we gave away an iPad and
33:40
to be eligible for that giveaway?
33:42
As part of a raffle, all you had to do was have your you know
33:46
voiceprint or your secret questions and answers.
33:49
This is a long time ago and roles in the system and if you
33:52
were enrolled by in the summer you know We have a raffle and
33:55
give away an iPad or two or three, whatever.
33:56
One. We saw a huge take you.
34:00
No time. It was, it was something that
34:02
was of value enough that people were interested in, right?
34:06
It wasn't like, oh, you get a free t-shirt, okay?
34:08
Some people that might be motivated but most people
34:10
weren't so, you know, for that four or five hundred dollar
34:13
investment on an iPad. We went from like 40 percent
34:17
enrollment began this summer to like over 80 or close to 90%
34:20
forget the exact number by the end of that summer.
34:23
And it was Excellent out of things to write working with
34:27
folks who are taking the calls and say, hey did you know that
34:29
you could have done this, you know, your password reset your
34:32
own? This time?
34:32
Can I help you walk through? You know how to set that up.
34:35
So if you're your first line support is aware of your
34:39
processes and capabilities, you know, they can also help Market
34:43
those to the others as well, but I think bribery is a great one.
34:47
I'm a fan of it and sometimes it's super cost-effective if
34:50
it's something that's tolerated within your organization, doing
34:53
giveaways like that. At, you know, you do lunch and
34:55
learns and brown bags and drives again treat.
34:58
If you treat like a product, right?
35:01
Make it interesting for people and help them understand how
35:04
easy it is to use their services because hopefully you're
35:07
developing services that are easy to use and you know on
35:10
obstructive as much as possible that'll help with the adoption
35:14
of it. Yeah.
35:15
All right. Those are great ideas and great
35:17
experiences, you know, Jeff but we keep doing this podcast.
35:20
Nobody's going to need to hire us because pretty, give away all
35:24
of our Good ideas, that's fine. We're all in it together.
35:26
I think, you know, one of the common things that I've heard
35:28
and read about in some of the feedback email.
35:31
So, we've gotten is that, hey, I'm not alone, right?
35:33
It's everyone struggles with this, if I am was easy, everyone
35:36
would be doing it. And I think the stronger that we
35:39
all collectively get on the, I Am side, there's enough change,
35:43
right? I'm willing to adapt my skills
35:44
and understand new technologies, and that's part of our job,
35:47
right? Is understanding what's next?
35:50
But, you know, I think it just drives security, and It's
35:54
something that I certainly enjoy having these conversations
35:57
around because I'm always curious what is next, right?
35:59
I've probably asked before. What's the next interface look
36:02
like? Is it voice, is it?
36:04
You know some sort of machine learning that knows what I want
36:06
before I want it is it some you know tied to some sort of
36:09
biometric I don't know right? There's probably options are on
36:12
all those is the technology there yet to support it.
36:14
And probably not at least not on a scale and a cost level.
36:18
It makes sense but there's always something at the me
36:21
change and you know that feedback of you're not alone.
36:24
And it's certainly one that resonates to out there.
36:27
Well, yeah, I love the fan mail that we've been getting out, you
36:30
know, every time I call it than male or female.
36:33
So, weird to say, don't say that fan mail, I know you can't and
36:38
so but no the mailbag idea and getting feedback certainly
36:43
appreciate. So if you're out there, drop us
36:45
a line, even just a list of you're loosening but also
36:50
anything that you'd like us to discuss in future episodes or
36:54
Any observations you made anything?
36:56
We've talked about that, you'd like us to share.
36:59
We'd love to hear from you. And it really helps to keep us
37:04
going to know that people actually value what we're doing.
37:08
Now, that's what the two is that you're talking to her in our, in
37:10
our dark basements, or rooms where with them.
37:24
Recording anyway, yes we are. We're going, we're doing it for
37:27
the people, it's For the Love of the Game.
37:30
It'll be interesting to see how you do it but our next couple.
37:33
Yeah, we're on the road. I think four straight weeks so
37:35
that'll be interesting, but at least we'll be in the same room
37:38
and we'll have to see how it goes.
37:40
But yeah, the plan is to definitely put content out there
37:43
every week. Still, like we've been doing for
37:44
12 weeks in a row, which I think a milestone for us, it is nice,
37:48
when that's what 14 weeks is a quarter.
37:51
So I think our next one is going to be Really truly, Which
37:56
business is this episode 12 or do we release episode 12 today?
38:01
Episode 11 went live today and we're yeah, we're typically a
38:05
week ahead. We're so now we're pulling back
38:07
the curtain a little bit breaking down that fourth wall.
38:09
We're typically recording a week in advance, which is, you know,
38:13
smart as if I do say so. Because, you know, we are on the
38:15
road, sometimes it's difficult to get, you know, time to be
38:19
able to put out, a decent recording and something that we
38:22
think might be interesting, but this would be a good challenge.
38:24
A sex couple weeks, right? Yeah.
38:26
Well, it should be putting that out there.
38:28
I'd like to hear feedback from, you know, our listeners,
38:32
especially those of us who are. I am practitioners to say, okay?
38:36
What is the type of content? You think you'd get the most
38:40
value out of his conversation? Like we had today where we pick
38:44
on something like resistance to change and kind of give it the I
38:48
am slant is it hearing product? You know, talking to folks who
38:54
are We're kind of in the field with product companies or you
38:57
know doing implementations who can talk about their specific
39:02
spot in the world and maybe their company.
39:05
Is it a combination of those two things you just like here in Jim
39:09
and Geoff, ramble, whatever kind of feedback you could provide
39:12
like that I think would love to hear.
39:14
Yeah definitely and you can send it to questions at identity at
39:18
the center.com, definitely read. All the emails that come through
39:21
and look forward to hearing that feedback.
39:23
So, I think that's a pretty good spot to leave it for this week.
39:26
I will put a link to the blog that Jim referred to in the show
39:31
notes. And before I forget, you were
39:33
talking about the 10 pitfalls thing earlier, and one of our
39:37
slides, we actually have an e-book around that, that, that
39:40
we did last year. So I'll put a link to that as
39:42
well in the show notes and I think that's pretty good.
39:46
We'll call it for this week. Thanks, Jim.
39:49
And thank you all for listening. Listening to the identity at the
39:55
center podcast to access all episodes visit identity at the
39:59
center.com.