Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Cup of Kaf & The Importance of Dyelin - Knife of Dreams chapter 34 & 35 - EP507

Transcript

A Cup of Kaf & The Importance of Dyelin - Knife of Dreams chapter 34 & 35 - EP507 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Weed of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, do we want to do an introduction?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Hi, everyone, we're back. It's been weird, but we have
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: a guest. Hi.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: This is John l.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Jen.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: John has helped me through so much of the podcast.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: You were there in the beginning when me and Patrick
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: were together in a room and we had echoes on
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: each other's microphones and it was because we were in
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: the same room and it you know, I don't know
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: how other podcasters get rid of it, but the way
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: we got rid of it is, you know, for the
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: first episode or two or few, I went in and
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: deleted it manually, and I was like, this is an
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: incredible amount of work. It's really slowing down my production speed.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: And that's when we were making a ton of episodes,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: even though they were short, and John reached out and
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: basically said, hey, I would do that for you. And
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: so for the first four hundred and forty episodes, I
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: think I sent you the files first. You went in
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: and did a first pass edit on them and then
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: sent them back to me, and it became less of
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: an issue. When we moved to separate rooms, we didn't
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: have the echo, but still you know, you removed a
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: lot of the ums and the uzz and just really
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: really helped out with the editing in the beginning.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I messed up a few at the beginning.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I mean that's oh my god. Anytime I worked with
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: an editor or anybody else, you know, this always just
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: messed up file formats. And that's back in the days
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: when like I mean again, we're talking seven years ago,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, how long is the podcast?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: This was before when I started editing for you, we
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: were using just Adobe Audition, I was using help. But
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: this was before Creative Cloud came along, so this was
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: specific programs.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: And yeah, back I really do feel like it was
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: the wild West of podcast times when it was just
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: you know, the only thing, the only people out there
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: were people with some some real technical skills because it
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: was not easy.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Even in my line of work where we were
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: recording helping people record podcasts for academic purposes, it was
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: throw mud and see what sticks kind of situation.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Sure, tell me more about what you do in the
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: academic field, and you know, let field people in on
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: your background and stuff like that.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I work at a local university in London, in West London,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and I am an av technician. So my bread and
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: bread and butter is making sure that everyone's got a
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: projector and a computer to use during it for their lectures.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: But underneath that, we helped create content for people to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: show dream their lectures and put out to students to
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: watch beforehand or after. We also help with events and
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: things like that, and a big part of that is
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: creating well was not so much now, but not since
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the pandemic. A lot pre pandemic, a lot of it
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: was creating podcasts and podcasts. Since then, the technology since
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the pandemic, the technology has exploded and people can really
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: do a lot of stuff themselves from their desk. Microphones
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and cameras have just got so much cheaper since people
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: got stuck at home.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: And people have a reason to have them on hand anyway,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And so whereas before I feel like people really need
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: a special reason to have a good mic and how
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, my zoom calls.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Right, like yeah, exactly. I mean, we've got to a
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: point now where my work has got rid of We
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: used to have a videographers and a couple of photographers
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: at the university, specifically for helping record stuff and do
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: photography as the years have gone on, they've all retired
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and they just haven't bothered renewing them. The line is now,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: well iPhone's good enough to record things on, just just
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: do it yourself kind of thing. We don't. You don't need,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily need people to do it for you anymore
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: unless you wants something really fancy with titles and star white.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: So one's getting computers coming for our jobs, basically, is
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: what you're saying.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Getting to the actual point of today's episode, which is, again,
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: as I said, a doubleheader. We are going to start
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: with a cup of cough because it's very very short.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: It's really an espresso.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: It really is an espresso, though it is described as
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: like a little tiny like right.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: That's what I love. Yeah, the cup of cough is
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: the way to describe it. It's like cooked under pressure,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: like they're making espresso in Turkish coffee. Coffee.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it means a lot to them as well.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I mean the guy. He says at the end, I
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: don't know why the guy was so surprised that I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: was polite to him.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: He gave me calf y, right, it's like I'm polite.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Which I do want to talk about that like, I
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: feel like the relationship between the two is not exactly
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: how your creed is portraying it right, like or his
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: koreed just like really a threat and doesn't realize it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I like I anyway, let's get into it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's just get on into it.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Ferik Kared pressed his gauntleted fists into his heart, returning
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: to the sentry salute, and ignored this for the fact
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that man spatter as he rode past. He hoped the
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: eighty men and the twenty one o Gia behind him
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: ignored it too. They had better He was here for information,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and a killing would make getting it a lot more difficult,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: since his man servant, a jim Bura, had planted his
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: knife in a standard bearer's heart over a perceived insult
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: to his master. In truth, a real insult, but a
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: jim Bora should have held his temper the way he
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: held him self had Since then he had taken to
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: leaving the wiry little hill tribesmen in the forest with
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the soldam and the demane and some of the guards
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to watch over the pack horses. When he entered the camp,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: he had come a long way from eber Dah chasing
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the wind, almost four weeks of hearing after rumors until
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: news brought him here to this camp on the east
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: of central Atara. No, sorry, I'm not too I'm not
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: too good with the readings.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: It's totally fine.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you for doing that.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, that was really great.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I appreciate how hard it is these things. I said.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: No, it's it's a skill.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: It's a skill. It takes practice, and it's amazing how
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: much the editing can pull out a lot of the mistakes.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: And in fairness, that was one of the most like
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: twisty Jordany paragraphs.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: It was very twisting, like there's a lot of.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Like nested meanings and like implied parentheticals and it's just
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: very Jordanian.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: So you know, well you get yeah, yeah, Then you
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: come across hyphenated words like hill tribesmen, which.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Is right, right, Since when was that a word which.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Which, by the way, has two adjectives in front of it.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: It's not just like hills trivesman, that's wiry little hill
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: hill tribesmen. So it's like, yeah, okay, drowning in you've
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: got at least three descriptors there, yeah, four, really, if
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: you want to say, wiry little hill and tribe.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's a lot.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: It's just a lot. But yeah, so we've got we've
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: got opening shot on these this character who is very imposing,
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: very distinctive. We don't get a lot from him, but
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: he makes the most of his page time.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean he's writing in with what is it
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: like eighty something oh gear.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: And eighty regular human deathwash guards and twenty one.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Twenty one O Guard that's right, okay, which is like,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: that's a lot, it's a force.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like a hundred elite soldiers.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say about that twenty one
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the twenty one there must be the Ogio gardeners twenty
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: one of them? Is that? I mean is that just
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: because of his status or is that just they just
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: have that many that they can give every banner General.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Well, no many. This is the this is the rescue crew, right,
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: this is the swat team. Let's going to rescue tu On.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: So this is how many he was able to bring.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, these are the ones who are loyaled to
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: On right, because they're she has more more than they're
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: loyal to Creed. I think they're more loyal to tu On,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: so when he said he wants yeah, so that's why
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: he's able to gather such I believe in imposing force.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you see that in going forward with when one
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: of a couple of the death Watch guards they get oh,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I forgot their name, now elbow's head, and they insist
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: on presenting it to two On rather than to anybody else.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: It has to to her rather than Kared, right exactly.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think is the one who's like,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: I want that guy's head, and then him and Kared
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: march in together and are like, here's the evidence. Let's
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: get this surro bitch out of here, and to wants like,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: thank you, appreciate you love that from you.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Well. I love about this chapter is we actually get
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: a little bit of the shan chan O gear. There's
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: so we get so little information about them, but we
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: get Rotha in this chapter, who is the sort of
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: the spokesman for them, and we get just one sentence, right,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: which is, after we rescue the High Lady, we can
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: kill as many of them as need killing. And that
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: sentence tells you so much about the shawan chan O
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: gear that just makes you go, oh damn, these are
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: not your mama's O gear, right, Like, these are not
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: the O gear we have at home. These are right bloodthirsty,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: willing to kill people for an insult gear Like. Their
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: culture must be completely different, they must value different things,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Like it is such a statement on who they are
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: and what they value.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's there's actually a really good I don't
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: know how they've done it, but there's a really good
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: picture on the what wiki of looking looking quite different
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: from what you obviously see from Loyallans or the Whitelands
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: o Gia.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Well, they're wearing armor, you know, I mean, like, which
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: is just crazy, Like I mean, it's like putting armor
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: on a tank, Like why it's already armored.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah. So there's two interesting things in the second
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: paragraph about that I was trying to pick apart. One
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: is that he notices that there's no rockin' in the camp,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: like there's space for them in the camp lay up,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: but they aren't there, and he hadn't seen one for
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: some time because supposedly all had been sent west yep.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Is that Parrien or is that the assault on the
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: White Tower.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: It's neither. Oh, it's sewer Ath is trying to pacify
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Terra Bonn and Ilda. That's from the prolog. If you
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: go back to the prologue, she talks about how she
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: wants all She's like, you know, so I want they're
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: like eight out of She's like four out of five, No,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: nine out of ten. I want them all going to Attacklda.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I'm sick of being attacked by this guy.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, I didn't even remember that. In the slightest thing.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: It took some research. Thank you what uh w wiki? No, sorry,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Encyclopedia Watt, thank you. There's too many of you guys there.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: They're also helpful. Encyclopedia Watt. Yeah, Encyclopedia Watt is my
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: go to, my first love, I will admit, very good
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: at presenting the facts without any opinions.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: And then the other thing is that he notices that
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: this entire contingent is all soldiers with armor from home
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: rather than the mix of local and Seawan Chan recruits.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: And I couldn't see a reason for why.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Don't they say? Later on what's he called the general
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: gamel line loan. He says later on that during the raids,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: during the attacks, they were losing altarans in r. Banna's
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: but he says that doesn't really matter, right, It's like
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: he doesn't care that he's losing the locals.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: So basically the locals are all dead.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, and he just accidentally has made sure that they're
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: always at the front and the shawn shann are at
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: the back. And it's not biased. He swears it's not biased.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: He's not biased against the locals.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, just racist.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Okay, that makes an unfortunate amount of sense, Thank you.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: For the same reason all of the dragons sworn in
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: parents camp. Wow, didn't survive and weren't a lot less.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Sean Chan would be like that, They would be
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: like that, All right.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Well we're talking about they were just happy. They were
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: happy to be in the front. They were doing it
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: for the dragon and so.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: So as he walks through camp, they're just being insulted
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: left and right, and he's saying, like, don't react to it.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And it seems to be all around this rumor of
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: the death Watch guard faking an empress, and they seem
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: to be in that's I think I didn't put that
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: together before, but I was never like, what is going on? Like,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: they really do seem to be in disgrace for quote
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: unquote faking and creating a fake Tuon, Is that sort.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: Of yeah, exactly, It's it's the rumor that Samarag planted,
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: so that way there would be mistrust sown amongst Tuon's
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: ardent supporters, and the Army would be more of a
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: liability to her than not. And now everyone believes it,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: and it somehow gives them impunity to just spit at
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: the death Watch guards in general, because apparently now they're
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: just gangsters like anybody else, I guess.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Trying to exhort Gordon's golden jewels. So there's a two
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: parts to it, right. It seem to everyone believe the
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: filthy tale of guards involvement with the girl pretending to
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: be the high Lord two on and exhorting golden jewels merchants. Right,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So it's like step one, you're stealing from You're just
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: faking empress so you can steal from golden jewels, right right?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Line too likely they believe that other whispered tale about
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: the girl not merely vile but horrific what what like?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I have no evidence?
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Right well, and then the next line is that the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: high Lady was in danger of her life from the army.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Went beyond horrific, But like, I don't understand how that's
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: a rumor. It seems like that's a fact that all
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: these soldiers are demonstrated. It's very I'm confused.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I think that second statement that the lady was in
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: danger as him being like, I can't believe these people
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: believe the false rumors and that it's horrific she's in danger.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels a little twisty for me.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, I feel part of it. Maybe
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think you're right about this
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: about them, the reasons why they're they're looking angry. But
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I think part of it might be that when you've
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: got someone like the deaf WatchGuard constantly looking at people,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: especially when with the seekers and all of them, and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: just it just takes just a little rumor, just a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: little thing to make you want to make you hate,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: show your hatred rather than your respect for them. And
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I feel maybe that's a little bit what's happening here,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: especially the open spitting Like Careed comes in and he
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: says he hopes that nobody reacts to what's going on
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: around them, but it's clear that in a normal situation
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: they would be reacting if if they weren't there to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: get information, all those people who were spitting and jeering
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: would be probably dead because they've insulted the death Watch Guard,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: who are an extent, really just an extension of the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: daughter of the Nine Moons of the Empress. So maybe
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: they just feel a little emboldened by some of the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: rumors that are going around that because the death Watch
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Guard's failed, they're not infallible anymore.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Eh for sure? Yeah, No, I think there's definitely that,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: like insult at the death Watch Guard. I just want
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: to know what the rumors are that are circulating, right,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you know, what are the things that people are saying, right,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: because he implies, he says one thing flat out right,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: that death Watch Guard is stealing gold. That's one rumor.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: The other rumor seems to be something vile about the girl.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Oh I know, but what it's not a rumor. It's true.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: She can channel. She can channel, right, it's coming out
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: that as a soul them as someone who can hold. Yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: she can channel, that's what. That's the horrific thing about
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: her that's spreading around because Suldan can channel. She was
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: a trainer, she would be the one. Yeah, I love
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: a little gent typed it in the discord right as I.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And so is that is that rumor breaking containment yet? Though,
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: I mean I guess, I guess rumors don't have to
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: be true, they have to be known to be whispered.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: This one just happens to be true.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm mm hmm.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Oh. I like that that someone just sort of threw
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: that in the mix because they were just the sort
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: of one upping and escalating in a bar over drinks,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: because that's how rumors start.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: A lot of the time, or even just like with
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: with Ceda and Betha Mint, isn't there haven't people been?
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: They do know they that's true. All the sueldom know
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: that you don't talk to those two and you don't
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: interact with them. That the Yeah, so that's true.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: We do have that.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: No, the information technically exists, so a rumor can start.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: And according to the cosmology of Robert Jordan and I.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Thought that there was I thought like a Gwain and
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: some people were trying to see the rumors by sensations.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: But they will they haven't yet. Okay, that's a huture.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: That's one of you. That's one of the problems with you.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Listening to the end of the.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Books that is, yeah, yes, that will happen right now, Okay.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: That's the Sanderson innovation.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: But but like I feel like the information truly is there, right,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: it's I mean, Matt has said it, Matt has realized
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the fact that Matt can say it, and greed is
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: near Matt, right, like Matt has been like, oh god,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: my wife is going to be able to channel right,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: you know, bloody hell, And so clearly that information is
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: getting out. I feel like from that group even.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Well, that happened, that conversation happened after they left at Budar.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, right, right, right right, Yes, the.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Thing with the Sudan is super real. One makes one
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: comm at one time to someone who's not another soul
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: dam that's enough, machiester And yeah, that would be horrific
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: from the perspective if you'r a career if the Daughter
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: of the Nine Moons was actually mar ASTMANI, that would
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: be a problem.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: That would be horrific.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially given that it's well known that she
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: is one of the best Domini trainers there, so there
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: must be some power connection there.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: But I bet she is a super powerful.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Champel Oh yeah, she's like super girl tier mm hmm.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Imagine when she sits on the phone of Dominion.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: I'd rather not sounds terrifying.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Crystal, the crystal Thrond, the crystal crystal.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Dominion, that's right, Yeah, the.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Nine rods of Dominion, which are our people apparently.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Which, yeah, she doesn't want to sit on them.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: No, Well, depends on the relationship she has with Matt anyway, editing, Editing,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately I am no longer in control. God, this is
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: really this is really an editor's podcast, isn't it today?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, so the next interesting thing I've got is
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: that Furiic Cured walks in, and there's all this tension
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: with the specific commander, the banner general he's talking to,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: partially because death Watch guards automatically stand a half rank
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: higher than everyone else in the army. They've all got
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: the same structure, but they're just a half step higher.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: So that way anything that this guy has Furit curied
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: could just take. And so there's this extra tension that's
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: not just like the general death Watch guard vibes, it's
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: also like a specific hierarchical like are you here to
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: take my shit? Because we've seen the shan Chan. They're
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: very concerned with who gets to have whose ship and
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: who gets to be in charge of who. That's like
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: the biggest deal in the world to them, So that's
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: part of the tension here too.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that because I was I was.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I was wondering about that because obviously they're both Banner generals,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: and I was thinking, why, why, why is there so
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: much Obviously he's a death Watch Guard, but I couldn't
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: work out the ranking there, So I'm glad you said that.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, half ranks just just little imperial extra plus point
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: five to their rank.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Crowning at And I think it's really given to the
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Deathwatch Guard just so they can't be ordered around easily, right, Like,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: it's not it's not, And that's why he's like, I'd
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: really have to just fight or else my head would
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: be on the line, right if he took over, Right,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: it's not something he can do casually, because that half
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: rank isn't there for him to go in and take
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: control of armies and take control of battles. It's there
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: so that no one can tell him what to do. Yes,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: right when he's as he's being like secret serviceman you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: a double little you know, agent, right, like he's not
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: supposed to be interrupted, and so that's where like, yeah,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: he could technically take command, but it would be a
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: huge faux pas for him to do so, and he
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: would have to answer for that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: But that doesn't stop the lesser man from being paranoid.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And absolutely absolutely yeah.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's it's how rank oriented people are, I guess, m.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: H and so yeah, and that's where this this this
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: situation between them gets a little complicated, like they're back
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and forth. I'm not really sure. It seems like fur
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: A Creed is like having a very innocent, nice interaction
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: and this guy is like, wow, you don't hate me, okay, right,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: So I don't know this. I don't really understand their
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: dynamic between the two of them is. I guess what
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I maybe he's just had no so little experience talking
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: to death watchguards just or maybe he's expecting a reprimand
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: of some kind for losing so many battles. That makes
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: sense that there is quite a few, quite a bit
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of comments about the West of the Line. I should
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: have marked this down before you can have before you
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: can have ilish prisoners. You need ilish victories, and what
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: we've had is a string of Eyelis defeats. So I
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: think maybe that's he's just worried that he's going to
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: be take his command is going to be taken away
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: from him or something.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: In that sentence, he's using Elis as a curse word. Right, Yeah,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: he's like that. I was like, who are the Eyelist troops?
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know of any troops as
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: a curse Before you're gonna have prisoners, you need a
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: fucking victory what we've had or a string of fucking defeats.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go, Okay, Jordan's swearing.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the other piece of this is the
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: same kind of aura of violence that follows Marcury around
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: wherever they go. This idea that any Marchuri could kill
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: you at any time, even though they're not they're very
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: honor bound and very unlikely to actually do that, there's
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: this attitude that they will, And I think the death
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Watch guards have a similar thing going on, where they
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: are seen as extremely violent and extremely deadly and they'll
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: kill you for no reason because you know, some subtle
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: insult kind of thing, right, and they'll kill you dead
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: before anyone can do anything. And so there's this assumption
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: that if you're in close proximity, you might die or
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: have your command taken away or get reprimanded. Right, Like,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: there's any number of bad things. Nothing good happens when
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: a death Watch guard comes near you. I think that's
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: kind of the attitude of the rank and file. And
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: so that's why Careed is just doing a normal, polite
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: conversation because he doesn't really live in that paranoia. And
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: this guy is like just waiting for the other foot
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: to drop the entire time, and then it doesn't because
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: that's not actually a real thing.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: In this case, reminds me of a cop driving down
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: the street and just trying to get from one place
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: to another, and everyone likes slamming on their brakes and
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: pulling over to get out of the way. And he's like, listen,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: you'll pull you over, but I could, but I'm not
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: here to do that. I'm just trying to get my destination.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: So if you could kindly stop doing that, that would be.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Great, like right, but also like, maybe don't have your
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: lights flashing down.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got a tattoos show and he's you know,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: he's death Watch garden all over the blaze here like
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: it's accusing.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: It's just confusing, that's all.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: You come. You barren into the guy's camp with one
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: hundred of the most heavily armored death Watch gods, and
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: you expect, you expect him to open you have a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: hug or something. That's He does give him calf, though,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: which he sends everyone away so he can give him calf,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: really nice calf too.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: And then and then he relaxes over it and like
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: kind of just starts to like talk like the trade
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: of soldiering and treats Kared like Kared wants to be
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: treated for like a brief moment in the interaction. Because
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: everyone likes coffee except for the people who don't. But
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: you know, everyone likes a hot cup of psychoactives. It
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: just it helps.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I'm drinking I'm drinking tea right now, but I did
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: drink coffee this morning. So they are a fun mix,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: is what I find, the really best of both worlds.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Why be stuck with one or the other?
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean one's better, but you know the other
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: has a lot more fun varieties.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I have no idea which one you think
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: is which? And with that statement, because there are so
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: many varieties of coffee beans but so many varieties of
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: tea that I would have troubled saying which one has
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: more varieties?
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's a good point. Well, that'll just
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: be a mystery exercise for the reader.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Nobody knows. Meanwhile, you tea bag.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not having any caffeine right now because that will
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: make my uterous even more angry at me. No, yeah,
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: no caffeine at all for me in any variety.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Said, I did like in this chapter that we do
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: get a bit of flavor of sean Chan itself. There
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: is quite a lot of mention of different accents, different actions,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: and that you even get the the mountain range where
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the calf is grown. You get some kind of flavor
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: of sean Chan itself, which you don't see too often
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: because you don't get that many povs of just normal
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: sewn Chan. People say normal. I don't know if you
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: can call him normal.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Random mean people not because mean but like the average
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, mean, medium.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Mode because I'm not entirely certain that too wouldn't necessarily
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: recognize and aware leading a sheltered life. I know she's
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: an intelligent person of character, and she's seen a lot
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: of stuff. Seems to have seen a lot of stuff.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: With the attempts in their life and all that, I'm
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: not sure she are so exactly, I'm not sure she'd
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: be able to recognize where in accents from or what
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: part of the country has pale eyes, or who who
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: has dark skin from the continent that kind of part
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: of her empire.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: She probably know that, I mean, she probably learned it
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: like from a book, right, She probably like went on
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: like a very like curated trip one year and was
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: expected to recite her like flashcards like.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guarantee she doesn't what her eyes look
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: like because nobody can look at her. She's probably never
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: seen anybody's eyeballs. Kala Rat was probably the first person
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: to look her in the eyes and she fell in
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: love immediately eye contact.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, he's really into me, right exactly.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I can't have him whipped for it. One of the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: other things we get another mention of remember agin Bura
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: is Greed's man servant. This guy has a similar manservant. Yeah,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: he wants to go. Are these guys like from a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: race of dark friends who are attaching themselves to important
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: people to manipulate them. But I think it's more. I
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: honestly just think it's racism. Like I honestly just think
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: it's it's Jordan writing a class of people whose culture
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: is which gives me very like Dobby vibes.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Well, it's not like the whole race of people like that.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: They're kind of outliers each from their tribes, right, they
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: decide to leave their people and like do.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: The thing, so it's like the exact same way.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if yeah, it feels very like Yeah, periodically some
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: of them just decide that they want to attach to
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: the big people and follow them around or something, which
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: just yeah, feels very very racistly coded, or.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Something for no money and.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: No pay for Yeah, Like, I mean, there is there
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: is a line. I'm trying to find it now, but
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: there's a line where he they compare them, He sends
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the he sends a servant away, and then they say, oh,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: they could almost be kin almost like saying, oh, these
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: two people there, they're from the same race. There, they
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: they might as well be.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: They behave the same way towards us, so they must
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: be the same person.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah right, yeah, that's I just I looked at
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: that and it just I don't know, it gave me
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: the especially because these people are from like America, right right, yeah,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: yeah with the coffee and the like, and then yeah
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah that's and that's that's It feels like these
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: people are slaves in all.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: But name and somehow, but for some reason they're into it.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: These two these two people are just yeah, but these
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: two people are somehow justifying it to themselves.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: And yeah, it almost reminds me of like the loyal
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: companion of indigenous origin to the like noble white explorer,
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: like trumping around like that's kind of what it reminds
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: me of almost more like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's giving
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: me that sort of vibe. But yeah, with the Shaun
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Chin attitude, like this this is not Sir Edmund Hillary
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: and like Tensing nor gay levels of respect. Right, this
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: is like the problematic kind of relationship right right right yeah,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: because it feels like Kreed has like there is that
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: he didn't capture this guy, right. I think these two
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: men like attached to themselves, but like why are they
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: doing that?
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Like yeah.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Right, and yeah, what's the the pay? They're not even
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: the pay, what's the reward? What does the point to them?
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: What honor do they gain? What g do they gain? Right?
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Like, and then you have that sort of added layer
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: where this you know, if you remember, Agin Borrow was
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: the guy who drunk out of a skull and it
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: really freaked creed out and it was this very like
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: barbarian Yeah, not quite not quite civilized. You know, he
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: eats with his fingers easy, we're reminded. It means you're
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: reminded to put on shoes. And there's this this level
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: of like he is just not civilized. Yeah, and we
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: are bringing them civilization and that's our gift to them,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: and it just it grosses me out a little bit,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: that's all.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, it gives it gives the quick.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I mean Sean Chen giving this quick, right, like that's
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: what they.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Do, right, that's yeah, Yes, is being consistent here.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just had to point that out. And
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: like the way these two guys are served just just
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: and the way they're written makes me feel very weird.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for pointing that out, because I've always kind
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: of been like, oh, how charming. But then yeah, you
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: say that out loud and I'm like, no.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: No, no, right, right, that it doesn't feel like get a.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Squirt bottle like squirt myself like now, yeah.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Which and honestly, until which was just funny because all
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: my examples are of Adjinburrow. But until I read this
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: section and I can see the comparison, it didn't really
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: occur to me in the same way. But now once
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: there's two of them.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: Well, Robert Jordan had well put together opinions.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, usually, do we want to talk about the battles? Oh?
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes said so this is this is the
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Matt battles. Yes, this is Matt like lighting a fire
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: to bring the okay, coca.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Cola, quite literally lighting some fires because they're all like, okay,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: so we basically eat this description, right, and the conclusions
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: they draw are wrong, but the facts they have are correct, right, okay, yes,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: And the fact is they're getting killed by crossbow bolts
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: that are getting fired way too fast for conventional crossbow bolts. Well,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: we know Matt has the crank, right, so he has
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: way fewer troops than they think he has because they're
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: looking at like, oh my god. In order to fire
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: that many crossbow bolts, he has to have twenty thousand
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: or more cross bulbin bolt thirty thousand maybe right, Well,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Matt doesn't have nearly that many. He has maybe a
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: quarter of that many with cranks, and so they're looking
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: for much bigger groups of troops. And second, there's these
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: explosions happening, and they're going, my god, how are these
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: explosions happening? They must be I said, eye, But it's fireworks.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Matt is sling shots and fireworks and causing explosions that
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: way dragon so yeah, these aren't but these aren't even dragons.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: These aren't cannons yet. This is Matt actually like he
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't have cannons.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Oh that's true, that's true. This is her her like
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: improvised grenades and stuff.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, these are basically grenades.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: These are her Ied models.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: So grenades on, sling shots, crossbow, cranks, and I assume
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: just really fast marching or splitting up his group.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The band is known for its speed. That is
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: one of its secret weapons is how fast it can move.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: So that they're talking about all these troops and all
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: these different places, putting out this excess of arrows and
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: having ice adye, and they think it's you know, traveling,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: which is a strategy that gets used right, but not
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: with this army.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: But not with this army, because none of them no traveling,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: none of the people that he's got. When when Careed
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: goes through the explanations for while they aren't traveling, he
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: hits the right one, which is that the knowledge has
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: not hit this group, which it will soon.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I want to read this paragraph. I think of just
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: about what he thinks is going on. Over the last week,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Laurence said, there have been four sizeable engagements and upward
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: of sixty bushes, skirmishes and raids, many quite large and
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: spread across three hundred miles three hundred miles long distance,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: still possible for them to run quickly. There must be
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: six or eight different armies involved on the other side.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Then after the first large engagement saw in nine major raids,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: each forty to fifty miles from the site of the battle.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Not small armies either, at least not taken altogether. But
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: we can't find them, and no one has any idea
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: where they came from. Whoever they are, they have these
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: demane those isid I with them, and maybe those cursed
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Ashaban men have been torn apart by explosions or demane say,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: weren't caused by the power. Those are the grenades, yes,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: but they are torn apart by explosions caused by the power,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: and those are the isid. I wait what, That's what
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not clear on.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: There are power explosions.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm curious. They have demani those iid I
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: with them, right, So that obviously, like in order for
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: him to be confirming about that, to be positive about that,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: his demane must have confirmed that weaves are being used.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Well, don't they know that there's eyes to die in
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: the group that they're following?
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Though? That's a good question, I guess. I'm just wondering,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: are the are the eyes being involved in these battles somehow?
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Are they like getting selves in trouble?
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Would they be able to be involved?
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: That's that's I wouldn't think so normally.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Doesn't tesla and make a light over the battle like
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: a red light?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: But I figure they don't have any freedom money with them?
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Do they know?
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: They have the suldom? But that's different.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not going to be in a good a
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: channeling and they don't have any of the like novices, and.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: They don't do healing. At the end so I think
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: it's just the assumption. Oh no, but would these guys
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: know that they have that? That's interesting? How do they
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: know that there's eyes to die if they aren't, because yeah,
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: they can't be involved in the battles unless they're being attacked,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: which they can't be attacked during a surprise rate. That's
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: sort of antithetical to the surprise part.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: There's no hint on what the day are actually doing.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: How would they even know what they had them?
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess if the Demani were close enough to
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: the raiding party, and there wasn't, I said, I in
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: the raiding party, they could tell. But again, why would
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: they be in the raiding party? I guess it's like
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: healing back up in caves.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, oh, occasional scattering of earth something like that
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: to cover a retreat.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, to hide the trail, they should vanish off
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: into the woods.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I was just looking at Matt's plan. I don't see
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: any clues because this is all cowarding to Matt's plan
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: because he's trying to remember he's trying to pull the
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: plug out of the bottle, which is he's trying to
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: basically hit them hard enough that the army is going
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: to come out of Maldive Narrows because right now they're
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: blocking all theid narrows and to get too on back
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: to where she's safe, he needs to get it through
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Maldive Narrows.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: And this guy says, we're doing it. We are, General
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: Chison is bringing everyone through the Maldive Narrows. We're doing it.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: We are doing exactly what Matt wanted because he's good
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: at his job.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, and there's so many things where it's
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: like this person is good, right, Like the commanders are
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: very good, very very good. Every man to face them
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: has been fought off his feet, out maneuvered and out
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: fought completely. Right, Matt is just dominating on this level
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: to do exactly to get them to do exactly what
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: he wants. Like they are outclassed on every level.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The only thing Caread's wrong about is the name.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: If Marylyn is real good at his job.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, Tommy is very good at his job, just that's
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: the wrong.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: One, right, right, right, yeah, exactly.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: You know that you know that name from somewhere and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: it's not what you think you know.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Would tom be a good general, That's something that I
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: think would be it's like a little bit untapped. It
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: would be fun to have like Matt as the general
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: of the armies and have Tom be his like second
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: in that battle instead of doing what Tom did, which
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: was like stand on a cliff and throw knives in
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: the back of a eye, like, have him actually use
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: his skills at Stones, because he's supposed to be like
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: this great Stones player, right.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Which means he should be a great general, right, So.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I think it would be really cool to have him
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: be like, no, boy, you're gonna get us killed without playing.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Let's do this instead, you know, Like I think that
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: would be pretty funny. Yeah. Anyway, ways that which I
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: would use characters.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I think he would have had chance when he
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: was when he was in and Or and came in
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: with no gaze, I'm sure he would have had chance
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: to become first princes of the sort if he really
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: wanted to.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: But I mean he was with Gareth Brynn right as
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: the general or was that later? That was really later?
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but he was good at stones from day one,
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: like you know, he got his first mustache hairs, he
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: became good at stones like same day.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Like Samson that his powers in his hair. If he
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: cut his mustaches, he'd get bad at Stones again.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Exactly, how do you account for that in the TV show?
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Well, he sucked in the TV show, so that pretty
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: much no mustache is no personality. I mean, he was
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: saying a great song. I loved it, and then he
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: fucked off and we never saw him again.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: So all the game is in the stash.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Yep, nothing that mustache, not nothing anything else.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Zulus makes a good point, makes a good point
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that you know, being good at politics doesn't necessarily mean
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: good at being good at armies.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: According to Jordan, it is what Jordan.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It is like he does. He like being good at Stones,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: being good with armies, and being good at politics seem
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: to all be the same to him. But they're really not.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, they're they're I don't think they are. Jordan
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: seems to think they are, but I disagree.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Exactly. You wouldn't expect like like bo Wo Nori brilliant
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: spy masters. Well, Noory becomes a pretty spy master and
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: great at moving people around, but just you wouldn't trust
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: him to be in charge, right And.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Likewise, most of the generals I don't think would make
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: good spy masters. They're way too straight for and bold
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: and like embodied to be good spy people.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I think maybe what he's saying is the best generals
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: have that skill as in politics as well, and have
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: that skill in maneuvering as well. Like not necessarily not
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: being good at stones doesn't make you a good general,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: but being good general makes you good at stones. I
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: think maybe we're getting calls and effect backwards.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Sure, it's the ven diagram thing, like being good at
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: stones is the in between exactly, Like.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: You're good at politics, you're good at battles, you're good
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: at you know stones, and like, yeah, the.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: I mean I'm bad at all three, So that makes sense.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure right, Yeah. I've tried playing Go. Wow
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: is that game hard? It's I enjoy Chess. I'll play
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: a game of chess any day. Chess is a child's
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: game compared to Go. It's ridiculous.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever actually tried playing Go. I've
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: played Athello several times. I got very obsessed with that,
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: which is visually not dissimilar. You've got the black and
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: white stones on a crosshatchboard, but I don't think it's
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: remotely close to the same game.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: It's like a miniature version of the game, right, It's
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: like you shrink it down, have it on one spot.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: I think there's also some rule changes that are slightly different.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: But yeah, he also played to mithello, and all that
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: made realize is just how complex go can get.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: So it's just one last thing in this chapter that
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: I think is cool. Is this potential branching other path
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: that the plot could have gone on where Curried thinks
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: that he would have gone after two on all the
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: way to the White Tower, like he would get her
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: out of the White Tower if he had to. I'm like,
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: that would have been a really cool plot if she
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: had gone all the way to the White Tower and
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: he like did have to go and and rescue her,
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: that would have been fucking cool.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: It would have been a cool way to have the
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: attack on the White Tower happen.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: Right right, Like there's just like, oh, like I see
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: why that didn't happen, But I love that he thought
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: about it, and like there's a branch universe where we
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: can imagine how that could have gone.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this same time, you could say that she gets
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: to the White Tower and Light is still in charge.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: She gets put into what Novice White and he gets
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: abducted by the attack.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Oh and Collared, Oh.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: That'd be so good. She's like screaming, I'm two on,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: I'm two on it, and like oh my god.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Wow, and someone goes, no, you are too, you are
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: one on.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, stealing that from Ali shamelessly. Yeah. So yeah,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: that's all I have about that chapter. It took us
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: a cool forty.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Ish minute, but yeah, I guess. My only last point
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: is that Creed correctly reads the situation, reads the whole
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: point of the attacks is to pull the army from
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Maldive Narrows and goes, oh, well, that's where I'll meet
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: two on and this general, because that's his whole goal
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: is to pull the army out of there. So if
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I just wait at the Maldive Narrows, I will find them.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: And sure enough, that's where he finds them. Right, Like
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Karreed is incredibly clever and incredibly smart by walking in
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: saying okay, what's going on? Interesting? Okay, see you later,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: and immediately goes to where the opposite general is hanging out,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: and like, is he able to read the situation that
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: well and track that be that smart to be? Like?
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, then then the general is going to be
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: at this location.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is very clever.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: And Matt realizes how smart he is straight away as well,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: because just from that small meeting. Later on, Matt goes
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to looking for an inn in Abbada and then decides
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: against the place because he thinks he might meet Kreed
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: there and doesn't want to get doesn't want tover meet
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: him again. Yeah, too smart, he's.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Too too smart? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, But I mean smart
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: enough to entrust too on safety too.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean you want you want someone to be
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: too smart if you're going to entrust them with someone
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: like touon, Right, it's got to be someone like you,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: like on your own level. But you can't trust them,
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: but you can trust them, right somehow that makes sense.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: And as long as their motivations, as long as their
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: goals line up with yours in this moment, right, I
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: think that's the that's the key, is like, if the
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: goals don't line up, then you don't want to run
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: into them again. And Matt's not sure what his goals
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: are going to be in the future.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Right, Well, his goals will always be what two ones
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: goals are, and two one's goals are complicated, So.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but can you imagine Creed and Matt teaming up
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: in the future to just like reform Sean Chan.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, that could be some fun buddy cop energy.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: The one stoic, the ones absolutely cracking jokes all the.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Time, both of them trying to manipulate two on and
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: did like being a better person.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: I am you know, I'm here for it.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: This is what the Outwrigger novels are supposed to be.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: And then Minteer in the background and then them both
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: to shut up.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, for sure. No, that's what I'm saying. Like
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: he put a lot if you look at where the
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: characters end up at the end of the series, like
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Matt Tuon careed like, there's a cast of characters men
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: who he absolutely was going to, you know, have go
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: back to Sean Chan and do a reverse colonialization. Oh well, anyway,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I think that's it for this chapter. Do you want
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: to dig into the endoor stuff?
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get there.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Chapter thirty five, The importance of dial in.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: It's got a lion. They want safe conduct, Elaine said,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: incredulously to enter Camelin. Lightning flashed outside the windows and
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: thunder boomed outside, a deluge fell on Camlin, a hammering downpour.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: The sun must have been well above the horizon, but
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: the stand lamps were lit against twilight darkness. The slender
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: young man standing in front of her low backed chair
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: colored with embarrassment, yet he continued to look her in
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: the eye. He was little more than a boy, really,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: His smooth cheeks likely shaved as much for form as
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: because he needed a razor very often, very properly hand.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Cell renshar Arethel's grandson, wore neither sword nor armor, but
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: the marks of breastplate straps remained on his green coat,
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: imprinted by long wear. A large damp spot on his
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: left shoulder showed where his cloak had leaked through. Odd
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: the things you noticed at time like this. I was
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: instructed to ask for it, my lady, he said, his
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: voice steady. Scene set anger levels high.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a deliberate insult from Alorian.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Alorian and co. But yes, Alurian is definitely leading the charge.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: So I did a little deep dive on Alurian. I
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: don't understand why she's opposing Elaine here.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: She's opposing all track hands because of what more gays
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: did to her.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, it's just because she's stubborn, because all and
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Dorans are stubborn. You tell you know, they're real, right,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: Propper endurance is because they dig their heels in.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Because, like I look at her history, it looks like
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: it's at various points she has expressed support for a
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: lane in her past, and so it was just like,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: what is going on here, Like I don't understand.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: It's her grudge over being beaten in public by Ravin
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: puppeted Morgaze. She's just decided ultra Cans are bad now
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: and that's just the way it is.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but okay, Path of Daggers, Chapter twenty eight, Alurian
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: supports a Lane for the Lion throne. That's not that
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: what's like a month ago?
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: Is that Turand's face Because it could be a common
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: enemy kind of thing. We're like, of course, we're going
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: to support Elaine when we're talking to Rand.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: But I guess that's what Dyland says to Elaine. So
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: it's all at the word of Dialond.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Dilond's like she's going to come around. She's going
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: to come around. She's going to come around. She's like
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: to you her whole life, she'll come around and is like, no,
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: the fact that you expected me to come around means
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: that I will not as a matter of spite.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Gotcha, And she does.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: She does go to the play Elaine puts on. She does,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: so there is there are shoots there if there are
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: shoots of good a good relationship. And Elaine is named
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: for named after someone from the Tremaine house, right, right, right.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: You can't stay mad at someone who's honoring your ancestors
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: that much, who actually really didn't have anything to do
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: with your beating.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it seems like she's going to and insisting
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: on it anyhore at this point.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, but yeah, no, John's right, Like she does once
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: the issue is settled, she does allow overtures to start
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: to reach and like she does come to the play,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: even though she's rude about it, she does come. And
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: like there's definitely like maybe she's starting to get over it,
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: hope at the end of the tunnel that's starting. But
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: at this point she's still just in opposition for opposition's sake.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: I think that's her motivation.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: There's also a mention of how Tremaine getting some very
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: favorable tax rates in the past and not being certain
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: they're going to get the same treatment from Elaine. I
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: think Elaine says something along the lines of I'm not
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: going to treat them any differently from other houses.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: And oh, yeah, that is what when Godwin's talking to Romayne. Yes, yeah,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: about apple orchid taxation, it is Tremaine, isn't it. Yeah, okay,
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: I never made that connection.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: That's why we've got the indoor expert off of this.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Apparently this is good.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: This is good, and it's one of the few points,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: it's one of the few times where they actually dive
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: into and or an a colony that isn't anything to
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: do in my.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Name, alum, it'll solve everything.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Solves all Elaine's problems for sure.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's a good point. And so it makes
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: sense that like, of course Alaurian's apple orchards were taxed lower,
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: like why would they not be, But then Elaine's gonna
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: maybe yeah, economic politics.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Fun right, It's like Jordan did a lot of thinking
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: about it, but it wasn't necessarily on the page, because
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: it's clearly there somehow in what we're seeing. But like, yeah,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: it takes a really careful reading, but the fact that
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: the clues are there and they do fit means that
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: of course you weren't thought about it. Of course you did, okay,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: And it helps to know her house as tremain sort
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: of think of it as like the insult of the
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Tremaine house and Tremaine politics, that sort of thing.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: So this point, we've time skipped forward a little bit.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: Luan and Alurian and everyone else have arrived with sixty
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: thousand armsmen two days ago, right, so it's now been
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: a couple of days since the kidnapping and the end
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: of that war. Now these guys have been here for
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: a few days now, they're coming up to talk. Right,
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: We've skipped ahead like half a week, half a Rambland
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: week at this point from the last time that we
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: were on this plot.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Which is like two books in this lot time.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Like seriously, So yeah, Elaine is sort of doing the numbers,
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: being like I really want to negotiate with these guys
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: because they have more armsman than us, and also like
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: she doesn't say it outright, but like the obvious subtexts
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: and Doran's killing and Doran's on the eve of the
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: last battle is bad, Like it really makes sense to
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: talk these sixty thousand people in rather than shattering them
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: against your much smaller force, like that's it's come on,
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: let's talk, let's talk, And that's really her focus.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I don't think they were ever there to fight, agreed. No,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: in the same way that Elaine is using the Borderlanders
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: as a bluff. I think they're only those sixty thousand
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: only there to defend the houses and the the nobles
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: and potentially came in. They don't against the Borderlanders.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: M okay, you think that they're there basically to say, Hey,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: the Borderlanders are here, we need to attack them. Let's
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: unite to attack the Borderlanders.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: It's how I think it's how Elaine gets around giving
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: them safe passage. And the end, isn't it. She says,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: you come in, we need to talk about the Borderlanders,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: whereas she knows exactly why the Borderlanders are there right well,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: and she makes.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: A point that like, why would I give you safe passage.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: We're not at war. There's no war going on. I'm
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: everyone who was fighting me has surrendered. You haven't declared
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: for me yet, But that doesn't mean we're fighting. Why, Like,
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: as far as I'm aware, we're just you know, playing,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: We're just back to politics. Because the war is over.
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: Right, and she does give them safe passages, but she's like,
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: this is dumb. You don't need this. Yeah, and I
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: absolutely agree that the reason that the other nobles are
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: there is because they think the Borderlanders are a part problem.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: And Elaine is like, exactly where I wanted you. That
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: was why she brought the Borderlanders into the equation. The
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: way she did was to go to them, and she
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: even reveals that that was what she did and defends
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: that choice as and I is to die. But like,
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, she really is like also like evil moniacal
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: fingers behind a tree, like wa, this is exactly how
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: I planted to a certain extent, because she's smart. She
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: deserves to be queen. She's cranky, but she deserves to
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: be queen.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: So and so again, remind me that we had eighteen
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: total houses, half of which right now are on Elaine's side.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: She has nine, right, so you need one more than
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: half to win the crown, which would be ten. And
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: they're trying to get this. Diane can dread to support them,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: and she's just this wishy, washy person who even in
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: the last session never supported anybody.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: And she's like, well, both sides are the same, you.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Know, Danny Anne Dan, Dane, Danny Diane Dan, that's.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: No Deane Kendred.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, that'll do. Thank you for having the
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: pronunciations for us or radio names are hard.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Kate and Michael.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Got The more I do this podcast, the more I
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: really get upset when people try and criticize Kate and
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Michael online. Well, they got Mogadine wrong. Like, you know
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: how fucking hard it is to do what they do
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: day in and day out and do it as consistently
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: and as good as they do it. The little bit
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: of inconsistencies that come through are because like there's nobody
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't have a million dollar budget to
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: check and have them go back and like do retakes right,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Like that's not that's not what this is. This is
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: someone reading you a book, you know, like I don't,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know. They do an amazing job. I've listened
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: to so many other audio readers who do it so
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: much worse or or even like, hey, the number of
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: times when I like, start with one audiobook reader on
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: the series and they never finish it, So you have
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: a totally different audiobook reader who doesn't occasionally get one
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: or name wrong or different, They're all completely different. They
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: started from scratch, totally new pronunciations for everything, right, so
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: like you know, slightly different pronunciations. I don't know. I'm sorry.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: This is my soapbox.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I'm on it.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Stop criticizing Kate and Michael. They're amazing. I love them.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: That's pretty well as well.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, and we also get one final time of going
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: around the dialan again. The importance of dialan is this chapter.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: And Elaine literally looks at Daland and says, are you sure, sure,
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: absolutely sure? You don't want to be queen, cause like
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: we can hang a left real quick and make you queen,
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: no problem. It would be so much more politically expedient,
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: Like I'm exhausted. I would do it. I would give
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: it to you right now if you really wanted it.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: And Dialand, because she's awesome and important to the overall structure,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: is like, now, girl, you're the rightful queen. Like I
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: want to be Lady Dylan under Queen Elaine. That's the
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: position I'm looking to achieve for myself.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: But this really is last chance. It's like I got
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: nine out of ten. I can give you those nine.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: But once I had ten, I am queen. I cannot
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: give you my votes. I am officially elected, right like
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: it really is just like last offer, this is one
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: way to resolve the conflict.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I believe Elaine. I believe that Elaine would
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: stand by her decision. If if Dylan had accepted, I
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: think Elaine would have been like cool, genuinely, all right,
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: let's do it.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: But what she would she have done? She couldn't have
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: stayed in Caitlin.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: Black Auja hunting. It's six months pregnant. Seems like a
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: good plan. It's gonna go great for her as queen
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: regent or queen elect or whatever whatever happens when she
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: gets stabbed.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: So love the note she writes to these you know,
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: upstart nobles, the ones who have not supported.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: Her, Stark, They're just in a disagreement. They're established houses.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Sorry, indecisive. Let's go with indecisive.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, Sure, so each one of the each one of
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: those houses, the high seats of each one of those
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: houses was excelled from from Cayman by more gaze. Sure
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: so you can see you can see why, you can
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: see why they would want to avoid the situation.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, okay, Okay, you know it makes sense.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: They have their reasons, but this isn't more geze and
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: like have they not seen the world? Do they've not
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: seen the forsake? And this idea that like, oh my god,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: more gays couldn't have been under compulsion, that's such a
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: crazy idea.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: That's a fair point.
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: I think maybe they've just seen teenagers and they're like,
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: oh no, a Lands still basically a teenager.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: That's a fair point. They haven't seen her. They haven't
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: actually seen her since she went off to the tower.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: That's true. Actually she's grown up a lot in the
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: like what two short years since the last state event
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: where they would have met her.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: They'll remember Elane in the garden with going right in
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: the first book, they won't or arguing with Gallet. They
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: might not know what she's well, they definitely won't know
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: what she's been through as an icy dye, right.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's she's gone through a lot of maturing for sure.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: But then they shouldn't question that. They should just I mean,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: it's a monarchy.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: Right right, No, it's a democratic monarchy. We respect people
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: but also need a a regent.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: That's okay, okay, because because what did you say like this,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Diane hadn't dithered like this in since the last secession.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: She's like, this isn't a secession. Seceessions are when one
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: house sucades a different house. This is just this is
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: just me getting it from my mother. This shouldn't be
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: a fucking bat like, there's non exchange of power between houses.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: This is the same house inheriting power. Shouldn't be a battle,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be an army. It's just this whole exile slash
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: dragon reborn, interim forsaken king causing some problems.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Diane or however you pronounce it. She was around for
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: the for the third the first Succession war, and rather
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: than getting involved, she just tore around her estates.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, so she's never she's never gonna make
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: a decision. Definitely. I'm supporting both sides, Okay one side.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: One side's a merciless dictator idiot. The other one is,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: you know, pregnant and Marilla.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: Well, but in the last war, we don't even know.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: I mean they were kind of like equivalent size, right
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: like the last succession, like genuinely like it was just
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: like I don't know, it was. It was not a
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: supremely bad side.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: We don't get much detail from Jordan about that at all.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: You don't even know who the other you don't even
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: really know who's opposing the track Hands.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: It's right, it's it's that the one house, Mantiar loses
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: the throne, and then there's no house with a particularly
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: strong claim, so they kind of have to like Grand
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Royalt out royality.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: And and in the end, we think we find out
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: all these houses support them, but we don't really know
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: what the various sides were, right, Like we find out
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: that these these six or seven or eight houses supported
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: trac Can, yeah, and more Gaze.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: But but tom was involved, so you know, like that's
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: why track Canned won.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, almost all the houses that supported the tra Cans
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: in the first in the Third Succession War were either
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: neutral or supported track Can in the in the Fourth
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Succession War. And I mean these cuts go deep, I
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: guess because almost all the ones who didn't support track
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: And in the Third War ended up supporting Amarella. And
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: so yeah, it shows how how close in history that
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: actually the succession Wars actually are to each other.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and just how loyal these groups are and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: how how yeah, these these loyalties persist across generations, you know,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: and and across houses, and yeah, yeah, it just persists either.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Way, there's going to be considerably less houses now, right. Yeah,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of death after the last ballot, I
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: mean no, no, later on before the last battle. Nori
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: says reports back and says the houses are in Saraund
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: and many are bankrupt and unless unless Elaine does something,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: they will cease to exist. So she froze them. She's
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: frozen mc carrier instead, so they're not really Andoring houses anymore.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Oh right, She does that like cross pollination exchange program
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: with the various the nobles of two countries being like,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: you know, you can, you can cruise over to my
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: other kingdom because I don't hate you over there legally speaking.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think and Or and Kurrian are like
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: on path to merge together into a single country or
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: do you think it'll always be a France England ruled
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: by the same king situation.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: They're not contiguous, right, so it'd be hard to merge
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: them into one country.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: They're just separated by a river. Yeah.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of it comes from whether Carrion
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: actually has anything, and Or actually wants, right, I mean,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: and has got a lot of mining resources, a lot
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: of crops, a lot of fertile land, whereas Carrian can't
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: even grow enough wheat to feed its people.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: So well, it couldn't because people were afraid of the
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Iel coming over the dragon wall since the Carrian and war.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: And that is going to change because there are going
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: to be freaking Iel in the waste, right, They're all
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: going to be the policemen in the normal world. So
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: I can see that area of Carrieenne being repopulated by
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: farmers and resettled. As Kyriene becomes sort of self established,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: especially with Lane in charge, She's gonna be like, why
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: are we why don't we have any farmers on that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: freaking land over there? They're like, she will negotiate with
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: the ideal and Avienda, the wise ones to make sure
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: that they're safe. So I can see Kyrienne as a
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: growing maybe with the help of and or this big
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: growing country.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you get a kind of homesteading program where without
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: replacing the natives, but you're just giving land to farmers
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: and going farm here. Don't worry, nobody's actually on that
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: land at the moment.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: Is right, And the only thing north of Carrion and
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: and Or is just the Karlian grass and tarballin right,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: Like there's this giant expanse of essentially nothing to the
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: north of these countries that they can you know, I
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: mean basically a bread bull. You know, I don't know.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: It seems like it should be carrier land and grass,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: I mean grassland. Maybe it's not the greatest crop growing space,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: but should be good cattle growing, you know. Yeah.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: I mean the only time we actually see it is
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: in I think the only time we actually see anyone
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: go in it is in book one with Parent Grain,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: and it's described as quite bleak. But I guess a
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: few few settlements and a few crops corn will grow there, right, Yeah,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: corn and crops or.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, herding horses and cattle.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: And I guess probably it gets pretty cold in the winter.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I would guess it's sort of like the Midwest where
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: it's like under like a lot of feet of snow
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: because there's just nothing to block the wind.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, and so.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: You get just probably crazy thunderstorms and stuff. I can
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: see it being very Midwest.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: Em yeah, mid the Midwest, which is you know, totally
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: crop land. So yeah, yep, some bread basket energy. As
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: the popular booms in the aftermath of the last battle,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: you're gonna need a bread basket to pop up to
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: support that hockey stick graph on population that you want
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: for that fourth age situation. So some war's got to
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: And he's quite close geographically, it's quite close to the
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Two Rivers as well. Who is just going to explode
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: in population which is still part of the still part
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: of bandal people.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: No, and what's what's between Saldea and the Two Rivers
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: the carline grass, right, that's basically and you're going to
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: have Perrin as the king of you know, with the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: broken crown, king of Saldea and king of Two Rivers.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: However that's going to work. Of course they're going to
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: want to expand to the middle.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: And and there's a whole river there that looks like
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: it would be perfect for like expanding down you go
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: from Berylane malon Barlan sorry not Barlane me saying pronunciation
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: is hard, I mean it. Yeah, there's a whole branching
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: river that looks like it goes from the mountains. You know,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: you probably have to get over the mountains. It's probably
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: a mountain range where Berylon is, and then basically you're
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: downriver from there. So build a few tunnels with these
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: new explosives that matts come over. Yeah yeah, and you
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: open up a whole trade route from Saldea to the
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: two rivers and Indoor.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think there is a river that goes
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: straight down from there. Isn't there already? Am I wrong?
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: That's my map looking for enough resolution. I can actually
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: see what the rivers are.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: I have one up on my wall. But is it
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: a very sharp angle from where I'm sitting the aernnel?
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: That's not I can't be right, but yeah, the aar
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Andel's what looks like it goes north of Verylon all
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: the way up to Sale, which.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: Is to wonder why there was never any trade going
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: down that river already. Maybe it's just going through too
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: many wild is and.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: It goes through it looks like there's nothing in between
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Barylon and Saldea. And you know Barylon is on this
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: side of the mountains, so you.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's mountains there are there that's just
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: above Belon. You've got well what's it called?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: I guess they call them the hills? Of that.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: You do have that, okay, that is north of there.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: You've got the hills of Absure that seems to be
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: the mountain tho are the mountains I'm talking about the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: hills of Abshire, which aren't that crazy, but it is.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: That's why Barrelons, you know, a mining town in the
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: mountains or in the hills.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've got camera fly next to it as well.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, you know, it's interesting how isolated Emmonsfield is
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: and yet somehow it's still in this major like it's
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: geographically very centralized. It just has a lot of these
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: geographic features to isolate it.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Hm hmm. It has quite a should we say, oversized
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: its effect on the world as well, because the amount
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: as readers, we can forget how small the Two Rivers
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: actually is, and a lot of people will come onto
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: my Twitter and say independence for the two Rivers Emons
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: feel forever kind of thing, and when you look how
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: small it is and how surrounded by and or it
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: actually is is yeah, yeah, it's like saying independence Rhode
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Island or something like that.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: Ozul's pointing out that there was trade on that river,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: because that's why bail Domon was even there.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: He's running ice peppers.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: Don't have to be kind of a badass, because yeah,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: there's not a lot of trade between the locations, and.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: The borderlands aren't necessarily like a high demand for goods, right,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: they're mostly producing.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: Warriors, furs and ice peppers.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: I always imagine though, that bail Domon was totally negotiating
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: with uh files with files.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, one would assume. One would assume.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: One would assume just because because even though it's a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: big world, it's a tiny world. It kind of reminds
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: me of like why do we have the same like
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: five inventors. And it's like, even though there were a
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: lot of people in sort of medieval and like or
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: Renaissance time, there's only a small group of people who
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: are rich enough to actually do the experiments, and so
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: they tend to get all the credit because people right
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: time is actually a fairly small community.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So moving on, Elaine decides to keep
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: all of the people who had been Ara Milli's spies before.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: Reeen Harfer wants to dismiss them, but Alone says, no,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: those are the people most likely to be spies. When
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: the next person tries to put spies in my palace.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: So let's just have those little firewall breakers there already
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: and we'll just deal with them like we did last time.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: No big deal.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Can I just say I love Dylan her little when
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: she's like, what you make a better queen and Alane's
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: like why, and Dylan says, well, your connection to the
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: dragon reborn and then raises an eyebrow add oh yeah,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: it's like your connection to the dragon reborn. Whatever that
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: happens to me, And Elane sits there and being like
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: paddiger belly, I have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: I thought that was a great little comedic moment.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: From Yes, that is good. And then we've got the
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: whole like reen harfor a Masterini telling us like stuff
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: about the palace, you know, important things, dull things. We've
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: got a theme of a leaking window that sort of
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: persists throughout the chapter.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Which you metaphor hmmm maybe.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: And the important thing the series of upper came then
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: not working.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's important. Also what's important is the number of
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: Arsons has not decreased.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: I have a huge, huge question mark next time.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right, all right, okay, let's let's hear it.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, they announced with some surprise that the number of
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: arsens had not decreased. Seventeen billions buildings had been burned
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: in the night. He had been sure the capture of
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: Ara Milla would see an end to that, and he
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: was rutheful over being wrong. Right, So these arsens have
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: been happening. They've been going way way back. And as
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: far as we have been saying as a podcast is,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: we have been saying dark friends.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: Right, Melar and Chyenne like dark friends. Yeah.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: However, in the next paragraph, the prisoners are still being
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: closed mouthed. I fear Noria is saying the dark Friends
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: are all in captivity.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: The known dark friends, the known.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, you think there's unknown dark friends out there still
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: setting arsen doing arson.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: What else could be setting fires other than dark friends?
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, there is a faction of mercenaries who aren't getting
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: paid what they think they should be getting paid. I
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: mean they never turn up again.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's that. I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: think it's that Cheyenne had more than one minion setting fires.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: I think she had a lot of people setting fires
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: and they weren't caught up in the Elaine situation.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: So you think even though Melar and the Dark friends
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: and the Dark basically the headless snake is cut off
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: with the bodies thrashing around setting fires because it hasn't been.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: Told not to right exactly, And to return to your
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: question about having the metaphor for the leaking window, I
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: was like, yeah, sure, moving on, but then Ethelon pointed
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: out there's an exploitable way gate in the city maybe,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: And I'm thinking, like, that's what all of this these
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: arsens have been leading up to, right, is keeping Elaine's
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: forces scattered so that way, like when the the waygate
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: gets exploited, they're all over the place anyway, Right, That's
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: what I've been assuming is that this is just sort
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: of preparing the chaos ground kind of like how later
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: on in that one town in Saldaia with Itcheralda like,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: they throw rocks a whole bunch, and then they throw
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: bodies and then they throw rack right Like, I've kind
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: of assumed that these arsons were a similar thing, like
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: preparing the way specifically for the invasion through the way gate,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: which could be analogized by the leaking window.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: Bringing it all together, Mmm, that the window is what's
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: keeping out the Dark Friends. So you don't think they're
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: using the waygate to get in because it's guarded.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, the waygate only gets used the one time,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: and that's the time that Camberlin gets basically lovel Okay,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: but this is all in preparation for that.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: I think I was trying to be like, maybe people
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: are sneaking through the waygate. Most are the people that
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: are setting the fires. No, okay, okay, but you think
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: these are the people who are actively undermining Cameron's ability
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: to respond to threats. They're basically dialing nine to one
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: one repeatedly every night, as often as they can so
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: that when the threat of the invasion happens, the police
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: force doesn't respond in timely fashion.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so okay, all right, I'll accept your your your opinion.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking that with the Dark Friends wrapped up,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: that like it would that plot line would be kind
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: of over.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: Then why not just give me an alternative theory?
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: I don't have one.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: That's why I put a big question mark right there.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: I was asking you, I don't know, I got nothing,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I thought I reluctantly accept your explanation.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: Thrashing snake body.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: That's that's thrashing snake body. Yeah, the head is cut
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: off like a marginraw thrashing murder.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. It takes an organization of full seven days
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: to diverse a merger.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: Raw.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: It just takes till sunset.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: You know. It takes an American corporation seventy two years.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: To die because they're people, know, so that means they
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: have morbld life spans, right.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I wish Disney would be long dead.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: That'd be nice.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: Obviously, the Dark Friends are very closed mouth because of oaths. Right,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: They're not gonna say anything, right.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: The only thing that we get to hear is that
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: Melar continues to scream horrible things about the women that
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: he will do to them, and that's great, we love that.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: But also apparently they did beat the shit out of
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: him on the way into getting which we love, which
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: is you know, yeah, we do love that. We do
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: love that. That's good. He deserves that. But yeah, they're
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: not gonna be answering any questions no matter how many
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: creepy secretaries from Silveys who throw at them. And this
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: is also where we get Silvey's's backstory. This is the
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: entirety of Sylves's backstory, is what no reports to her.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: That few people keep a private questioner. It suggests a
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: dark side. But then, as I understand matters, her grandfather
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: chased away every man who showed interest in her until
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: men stopped showing interest, and she has been virtually a
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: prisoner since reaching her majority. That would tend to give
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: anyone a dark view of the world's scary.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: So, okay, what does that implying.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, she she's only just got her torturer because
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: she she's pinched him from.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: I think she was hers the whole time. I think
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: she was loaning him to Arimella.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, Yeah, I do.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: I do wonder what sort of like pulling wings off flies,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: like special interest club they met in.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like why does Yeah, there seems to
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: be an eagerness to Sylves to use this person too, right,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: like I want them to torture people with.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: Her, right, and he's a dark friend who ultimately creates
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: a jail break situation.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, he is a dark friend. Yeah,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: so this is that's because I pointed that out last time,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: that he right.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: But Sylve's, as far as we know, is not a
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: dark friend and was not deliberately in on that plot.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: She just wanted a you know, regular nasty person, not
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: necessarily an explicit the evil person.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: But this summoning of the questioner is what leads to
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: the jail break that leads to Melar getting out and
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: killing Aviendo no uh ba Burgita, thank you.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: And having spare medallions he has some of the medalliant.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right after that, that's right? God? Yeah, what
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: a jerk? Should I just use? Let NORII give his
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: best shot at it? Right? Like? Why not?
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: Let nor like read Athosaurus out of them until they
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: con wress.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Just nor What I want you to do is just
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: practice your daily reports multiple times with this person before
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: you come to me.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: You tell them about all the sewer stuff.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, Then we get the midwife. Do you want to
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: talk about the midwife?
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Then we get a prenatal exam, yeah.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Which, thank god, we finally have a competent, if gross midwife.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: It's period, correct, Yeah, it's not a thing that hasn't
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: happened in the history of midwiffery.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: The tasting of the urine.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the thing. Yeah, it's a real thing.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: It's a legit thing, right, I mean it's it's a
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: it's a real diagnostic tool. It's just a gross diagnostic tool.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's it's a very real thing that's been
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: part of the medical toolkit for many a century. Like,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: it's not something Jordan made up.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: No, it's also a very good way to test your diabetes.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with the sweetness, Yeah, definitely, which can be really
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: common and pregnant women, right.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, my mom had that had that issue specifically.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's Melfane is a very cool midwife. Particularly
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: the part where this is this is where we get
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: the extremely satisfying description of alangety a good meal and
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: the line Melfane had lambasted the cooks and every other
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: woman in earshot for the bland diet they had been
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: feeding her. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, the satisfaction of that line, and then like the
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: she it's almost matt waking up in the tower levels
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: of like tastiness that she finally gets this fucking delicious
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: meal and we get to read about it, right, like yeah.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: And like the only things that like she has a
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: normal diet now right, she is on a strict control
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: of her weight gain, she can't consume alcohol, and she
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: is already self regulating her consumption of caffeine. Right. But
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: like other than that, she's good to go. And it's like, ah,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: this is so practical.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: Also, don't forget, don't forget to read and sing to
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: the baby in the womb. I could see a difference,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: Like these are all very actually good advice for people
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: who are pregnant, right, thank you.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is much more modern advice than what she's
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: been going through up until now.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: Right, it's literally been medieval advice on and I mean
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: that on every sense of right.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: Right, we just hopped several centuries forward because apparently one
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: woman in the entire city is competent and everyone else's
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: is not. And she somehow just knows these things with
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: complete confidence in herself. It's amazing magical. But she also
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: has the hilarious side about how like, you know, no
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: one would ever want herbs or midwif ing from a man.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: That's a ridiculous concept. And it's just like staring in
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: modern medicine, it's just full of men.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. Well, I feel like everybody else did their
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: own research, you know, like she's the only one who's
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: like actually educated about this kind of stuff. Everyone else
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: is just like, oh this is what I heard.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: But so Elaine couldn't get a midway from the education facility.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: Where are the other graduates?
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: It drives me nuts, like you right, yeah.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: Where's the where is the yellow watch maternity?
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: No, the yellow the yellow ADJA. There's no use in
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: channeling around pregnancy, like pregnancy makes it hard to channel.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: I'm guarantee you the Yellow AJA does not study pregnancy
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: in the Slights, never has, never will. I don't get pregnant.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: Well, hopefully after Elaine has these kids. She ends up
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: bringing that petition to the Yellows at some point in
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: the fourth age, being like, bitches your ship together.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: Because there's nothing to heal. There's nothing that's wrong.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: There's no uncomfortable or negative symptoms that come up pregnancy
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: at all. There's definitely no issues like during or after
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: birth that could possibly require magical healing.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: It's it's one hundred percent no, no, never. I can't
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: can't see why the yellow augis will.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: Be definitely don't need medicine involved. God, why is there
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: so much patriarchy in my matriarchal magic system.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: Uh dark friends, Okay, seriously sing they ever got pregnant?
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 3: M M NOA has no idea how.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: How conception works because Hartley tea is perfect and no
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: one has ever forgotten to take it.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: And we haven't over harvested it to extinction and it
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: doesn't lose efficacy over time.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, we are living in a magical worlds radio,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: so might as well run with it, like like truly,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: the fantasy spects of this book are based around pregnancy
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: and contraception.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, me and my angry uterists are just going to
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: turn the page on that.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was a great time to be talking
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah anyway, Oh yeah, there's this other thing here about
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: how Burgida had decided to give up drinking as an
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: extension of prenatal health, which Elaine is like, hmm, pretty
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: sure that that doesn't count. But it's clear that you're
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: drinking too much for your own health, So we're not
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: gonna push the logic of that argument very far.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it. To me, it's very much the
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: husband stops drinking to support the wife type situation. Right,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: It's obviously not going to affect the baby, but it's good.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: For her right to not be drinking and to not
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: like like whatever excuse you need, it's fine.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: I do like how the midwife has told him to
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: read anything frivolous, just histories.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you have to only read dry things because
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: it really matters, Like you know, their personality will be
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: shaped by what you read them, which is like that
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: might be getting a little Old Wives talely. Again, at
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: this point, I think just the act of reading to
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: the child is sufficient. Don't think it matters what you read.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: I also think there's something very self aware about that. Right.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: She did not want to direct them to frivolous tales, right,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: fritless tales like the Wheel of Time.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: With the Heart and the Flame or whatever, like that
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: book always gets mentioned.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 4: The romance novel Travels with Jane Farst writer, Right, yeah,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: I wonder if that's considered because like everyone reads it,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: but I think it's very much like pop fiction, right,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 4: it's not supposed to be elevated prose.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's not a classic. That's I wonder if
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: how she would classify the Travels Jane farstwriter, Like, which
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: category would that end up in.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: I think she'd call it frivolous. Like maybe not for
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: an older like person like you know, in like their
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: middle school or teen years you know, hm, but certainly
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: not for babies. Babies have to only get read like
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: you know, six hundred level university great with like excruciating
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: battle deployments. That's the only suitable thing for a fetus
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: to hear.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Jane Forest writers Hard Potter. Yeah, which I mean, there's
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: the debate, right, is that good fiction or not? No? Yeah,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: So what I've been reading is you definitely don't want
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: to talk to babies and baby talk. You want to
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: use English words, but also you generally want to put
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: like lilting hot like you want to I'll be like
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: be very happy and very emotional and emotive with your words,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: Like that's very important. So like the putting on the
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: baby talk can be you don't want to go, but
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: you can say, oh, hi, baby, you're very cute today,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: Nice to see you, right, Like that seems to be helpful.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: So anyway, not that I'm doing research on children or anything.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: Just imagine how people have always learned it's a monkey,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: see monkey. Do do you speak in Gibberish?
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: Then don't teach your children gibberish, So that would be
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: my assumption.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: But children also like they tune out if you talk
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: like a lawyer.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean you need you need to have.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: You need to also like entertain them, right, like you
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: need to get their attention and.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: Passes at a different rate when you're single digit age, right,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: like a unit of time is just different.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going so fast these days. My god. When
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: you said you started five editing the podcast five years ago,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: I was like, ah, that's a nice joke. You're kidding, right,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: And you're like, no, no, it's it's been that long,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: and I was just like no, no, I literally could not.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: My mind took more than thirty seconds to fully comprehend
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: that you weren't should Yeah.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: It's a problem there was before the pandemic. Pandemic and
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: that was four years ago now right, Yeah.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: No, that's that's the thing, is like this not to
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: be five years ago. The pandemic was last year, right,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: Like that to me is still like it just I can't.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: Life's going to go back to normal any minute now,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: I swear any minute now.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really going to be over. So yeah, since
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: the time is all kind of fucky, which is which
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I can't. I don't know if it's a
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: it's a result of getting older, or result of the pandemic,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: or you know, just the camp Yeah.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: Fuck, because it's it's always been universally agreed the older
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: you get, the faster time goes. But then everyone also
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: agrees that the pandemic fucked time.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: So right, and at the same time, it feels like
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: I've been with never my entire life, even though it
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: was it's a post pandemic thing.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: Well that's just marriage.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: That's I can't imagine life without her, you.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, that's that's good ideal. There's another thing here
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: that track canned inside the House calls itself the keystone
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 3: that holds and or together, which for anyone who isn't
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 3: a stupid American nerd like me, Pennsylvania is the Keystone State.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: I did my Stone State on Pennsylvania, and it's the
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: Keystone State. Well, my stepdad's from there, so that of
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 3: course was the state I had to pick. I had
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: to learn about his state. But yeah, it just kind
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 3: of reminded me of Pennsylvania. It was like, is Robert
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: Jordan saying that Sherchanda is Pennsylvania, Like what, Okay, sure,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: why not.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: I think it's more just like they consider themselves the
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: most important foundational house, right. I think it's just more
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: about arrogance and like we're the best. We're like, of
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: course we get to be the keystone, the most important
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: stone in the arch.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: Well, their symbol is literally the keystone, like it's it's
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 3: and also the keystone is the opposite of the foundation,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: like architecturally speaking, that's that's you know.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: Well, fuck yes, I'm a foundation.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: Footing is a very different piece of masonry.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: I know. But the cornerstone and the keystone.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: Ah, okay, fine, sorry I had to brown on that
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: at you.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: No, you're right, you're right.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: That's why I can't be angry about you. But you
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: know what I meant.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, we did all know what she meant. I'm just
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: being pedantic because that's why they pay me the big bucks.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the keystone is sort of the thing at
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: the top that holds everything else in place. That does
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: work pretty well as a queen monarch analogy.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: It does, it does. My dad had a really cool
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: like meditative toy like of little stones that you actually
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: build an arch with a keyston in it, and it
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: was like a challenge to make it work. As a kid,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed that a lot and really enjoyed playing if
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: I can get it up, then the keystone holds it together.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: It was like, you know, six, It was a very
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: cool concept. So I have a fondness for keystones just
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: as a concept because it's like physics friction. It's cool.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: And cornerstones usually have like the inscription of like the
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: building built in you know, eighteen fifty two on the
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: corner of it.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is and.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: Then it's just the cornerstone, you know, building, it's the
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: most prominent one. So I guess that's why it's cornerstone.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 3: That is the idea, But it doesn't.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: Really provide any It's not like that's the foundation. If
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: you pull that out, the whole thing will collapse.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, yeah. Keystones are cool because they are so singular. Right,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: you need, like, you know, however, many different corners to
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: make your building. Potentially for maybe more, you need, however,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: many stones to make the foundation, to make the base.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 3: But right a bear at the top for the keystone,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: it's just the one, just the pin and the scissors.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: And like, you need all this support structure, you know.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: It's what's cool about arches, right, is you need all
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: the support structure to put them up. Once you drop
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: the keystone, in all of a sudden, they're self.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: Supporting, right, Yeah, it's very cool.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: And then you can take with all the support that
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: goes into them. Yeah, a complete arches is a kind
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: of a magical thing. It's what the Romans built their
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: empire on, right Yeah.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: That and level roads we still got them here, Yeah,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: so cool.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: That and aqueducts not quite level roades.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but very specifically at a particular specifically not level.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: This this magic ability to make water flow at a
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: very specific rate by knowing exactly where a level is
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: and exactly how slightly off you are from that.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 3: We've also got so Elaine has musicians playing to her
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: baby because she doesn't have a boombox. There are no CDs,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: there's no recorded music. This is a world where the
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: only music you get is music people play live, which
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: like I feel, you know, I'm the kind of person
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 3: that lives with headphones on all the time, mostly listen
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: to podcasts, but sometimes I go through music phases and
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: like it's something that's easy to take for granted recorded music,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: but like, oh yeah, we as a species have not
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: had access to readily recorded music. You can just play
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 3: the touch of a button for very long like most
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: of human history. If you want music, you need a
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: musician to like choose to make music for you or
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 3: to make it for yourself. Like that's it. That's the
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: only way to get music. Like, the concept of just
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: having all this recorded music is so so recent, and
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: Elaine does not have that. I mean, she has found
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: that one to around grill with music, but she hasn't
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: figured out how to work it.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I feel it's because that's why you
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: have like groups of women or you know, mostly women
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: back in the day who sat around and sang and
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: I guess men on the chain gang.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, singing to work is very normal, yeah, yes.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like we don't really have that
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: anymore now.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: You don't sing to with together, you don't you don't
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: keyboard in unison at your office, right, you know, the
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 3: songs are for us to help synchronize your movements as
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: you're like rowing or whatever. It doesn't work if you're
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: all making phone calls to different IT departments.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: At best, you've got a little bit of disco music
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: playing on in the background. If you work in retail
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: or something like that, that you all, you know, jam
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: out to at the same time, but it's usually terrible,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: and if you're on a work site, it's it's really bad,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: like eighties rock.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, oh yes, Bob at them. I am very familiar.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: All right, So thereive the lords and ladies. Miss Harford
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 3: comes in to say, the lords and ladies are here,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: let's go have an informal meeting, and we get a
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: lot of descriptions of what an informal meeting is, where
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 3: everyone just has one servant and they've got their nice clothes,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: but not they're super nice clothes.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of scenes setting people coming in, glaring, sniffing,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 3: standing together, standing apart the nobles. The nobles arrive, we're.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: Doing that, and then lots of lists of nobles, all right,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: like and lists and lists of nobles.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a reminder of the of the big scary stained
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: glass queens staring down at Elaine. You know that whole vibe.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole Alorian is going to be provocative. She
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: warns everybody not to let Lurian provoke anybody, So, like,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: calm the fuck down when Laurian walks in and is insulting, Right,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: we don't want to start war over.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: That, right, Don't respond to her. She's trying to control you.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 3: Don't rise to the bait.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the room matters, right that the Dana's pointing
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: out that the room that they choose to meet in,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: it's the throne room.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: It's the throne room. And this is where the broken
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: window is, right, it's dripping into a bucket plank.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: You don't think the broken window. You think the broken
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: window is referencing the waygate and not her like so
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: all right, So here's where I'm going with the analogy. Right,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: Elaine is all angry in the beginning, and the storm
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: and the thunder punctuates her words. And so if the
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: storm is her anger, what's the wind the window is?
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: Somehow, I think honestly, the window is probably more a
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: metaphor for her fractured support amongst the nobles, like that
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: she needs to repair this relationship. There is a broken
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: relationship with allarean specifically that is like causing damage to
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 3: the structure, and she needs to repair that. I think
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 3: that the waygate is you know, maybe stretching it a
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 3: bit farther, but it's not entirely wrong. I mean it
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: can work, but I think that more realistically, because this
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 3: is happening with that as a backdrop, that's probably the
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: more obvious analogy.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: Right, And then maybe her anger isn't helping the situation.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: I mean she she wins the conversation, so true, Yeah,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: pants exactly akin to a Grain's chair.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's literally the point I was about to make.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's like a greens chair. And if you've
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: got the bucket there drip drip in politics, if you've
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: got that drip drip drip of negativity and brokenness, eventually
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: the person at the top will come down to Elane
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: Scott to fix that there and then mend the relationships
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: as it were, have a have a bit of a
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: feast in a play.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: Let's just throw a party, people, pizza, watch a movie.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: But also she's able to, you know, show them that
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: she's not sitting in the throne, that the throne is
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: something she still respects as something she does not possess yet,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: and would you please give me the throne for fuck's
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: sake already?
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: Right, right, she's sitting at the foot of it, not
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: claiming it. There's a lot of symbolism with the thrones
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: and the way he Ran had the dragon throne and
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: he had the the lion thrown up on a pedestal
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: for a while but behind him. Yeah, like it was
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: a prize. Yeah, a lot of symbolism around the throne
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then Lauren need to make sure to insult
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 3: Ilan's allies by saying, you know, they're all children or
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: Aramilla's leavings. It's very insulting again, trying to get a
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: rise out of them.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: The number of insults that she comes up with in
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: the next so many, right, just very insulting. And that's
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: why I was like, I was like, what is she doing?
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: It never really made a lot of sense to me
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: why she is so someone who seemed to be a supporter.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: But I guess, yeah, just.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: It's just emotions. It's just and Dorian's stubbornness. I really
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 3: think that's what it is. It's just meant to showcase
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: this is their national character.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's also trying to test the others the result
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: of the others as well, not for any particular reason.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: She's just there saying or if I if I try
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: and insult people as much as possible, I want to
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: see who snaps, And yeah, see if there's any any
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: doubt in anybody else.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: Right, And she's kind of like, this is my role now,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: is just to like test everyone's result for this situation
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: as we move forward, Like I will be the last
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 3: one to be convinced that is my role at this point.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: Got it? Because it seems like, you know, they ask
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: a couple of questions to Elaine, she answers them in
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: a pretty you know, succinct way and like okay, we're good, right,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: Like that's that's all we needed to hear, is like, wow,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: are you going to handle those situations?
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean they need to come in letting Elaine
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 3: know what their concerns are, and Alaurian already has carved
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 3: out the space to let those concerns rage freely, so
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: that way none of the others have to say anything
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: potentially insulting, Like a Laurien can say whatever she wants, right,
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: and it's going to be listened to and politely ignored
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 3: rather than taken seriously.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this I have a lot of trouble with these sections.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't I don't want to get it.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I get it, but I don't.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: But the reason the rest of them are here is
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: not to support Alaurian's her ego. It's to talk about
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: the Borderlanders. They're like, we're here to offer truce because
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: we think the Borderlanders are a real threat. And then
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 3: she says, appreciate that, but I actually have it under control,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 3: you know. A Laurian gets more ammunition to be like,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 3: how dare you act like a queen when you're not queen.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 3: She's like, no, I have authority, has an eyes to
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: die lest you forget, like I could be super queen
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: just so you know, we could have a super and
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 3: or you really want me to not be super Queen
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: for and or Laurian really and all the rest of
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: them are like, shit, she has magic.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: So and this is where she reveals her like manipulation
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: of the Borderlanders, and I think that really is what
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: wins her their support is when she's like, oh, yeah,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: I've manipulated them to cross without violence. What you know,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: she's basically what else could you have done? What else
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: would you have done? And she doesn't have a better answer.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: Right. She did the very martial arts correct thing, which
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 3: is to yes and just step out of the way
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 3: and let them move through rather than trying to push
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: them back per se, And yeah, I think it is
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: kind of they need to see that she has political
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: savvy to lead them through a turbulent time, and Alurian
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 3: has really been pumping up the she's not fit to
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: rule angle, so they really need to like be like,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: show your work, let us let us see how things
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: go on under the hood, behind the curtain. And she's like, well, yeah,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: you're indoor noble, so I can tell you I completely
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: lied without lying to the porderlanders like that's our little
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 3: secret here because we're in the cool kids club, and
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: they're like all right, yeah, a Laurian really does just
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: have to stick up or ass about this like Alane's fine.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: But then they do they do give her the impossible
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: question is what do you the black tower.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: Right, which is kind of a trick question to be again,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: how can you handle an impossible situation.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: Because no one can do anything with that, And then
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: none of them have any answer to me either.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah, if one of them come back and been like, well,
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: why don't you do you know, why don't you appeal
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: to the White Tower for the you know, so as
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: you would had an answer, right, because obviously the White
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: Tower isn't equipp to handle the Black Tower at this point.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but yeah, that is the point where someone
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: could have pushed back and said like, well, I have
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: an idea, and if they'd had a better idea, maybe
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: they could have stolen her sport. So I do think
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: that was a moment of vulnerability for her, but also
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: a moment of honesty.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: Right, That's the thing, is the honest answer is it's
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 3: like with the quarter switching around, right, Her telling Dialan,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: I hear you and there's nothing I can do was
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 3: enough to ease Dylan's fear. It's the same thing. She's like, yeah,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: the Black Tower is an impossible problem and we're just
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: gonna have to hold tight. And to have her say
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 3: that and acknowledge it honestly is reassuring because there's no
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: other there's no other answer.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to remind them that they are subject to
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: the laws. I can enforce those laws, but they are
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: subject to them. Yeah, No, that's a good way to
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: put it.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: And then they're all like, yeah, it's silly to waste
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: endurance on endorans when we could be unifying in the
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: face of the clearly impending apocalypse. So all of us
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: houses are going to stand for trkand and then glare
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: at Alorian until she flounces out basically.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: And so then immediately after that, she gets five houses
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: right that stand for her. Bam bam bam. So that's
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: five onto her nine. That gives her fourteen out of
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: the eighteen.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 3: She's one handily at this point, she is solidly ready
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: for her coronation.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: And then she gets an almost confirmation from Alorian. She
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: she gets it. She kind of gets a tacit Yeah, okay,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: I'll follow you to Tomageddon, but yeah, yeah, some of.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: Them joined for Diland and then yeah, Alorian says, I
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 3: will follow the country. I will put country over party,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: but I'm not at the fucking party right.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: Well, it's like yes, but she's now your queen because
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: she's been elected, right, Like she's over the threshold.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's going to accept the election, but she's going
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 3: to whine about it on her own time. But she
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 3: will be fully in support when it comes to fighting
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: the literal last battle because like she is a reasonable person,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 3: she's not actually an idiot.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: It's interesting to think about these. Is like just as
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: bitter as our elections get, and is roe think about
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: like the only way to have an election is if
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: the person in power dies. I mean, like it's just
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: the stakes are so high, The stakes are so high
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: in that condition.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, at least ours come around like clockwork. You can
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 3: very accurately predict, whereas, yeah, when you're waiting on someone
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 3: to die, it's like it could be tomorrow when they
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: fall off a horse or eat a poisoned lima bean,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: or it could be in sixty years, right.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: Like you have no idea, or in two hundred and
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: sixty years in.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 3: This case, right, Yeah, Like I mean you thought Queen
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 3: Victoria reigned for a long time, right, Like yeah.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: No, I mean there's a reason Elaine and the Queen Elizabeth.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: The second half. I feel like I have some parallels,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: and it's like the.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 3: First because they've been around, i mean, the red and white.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: The second. Yeah, yeah, I'm talking about the one who's
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: around now or was around like ten years ago.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, that is the second. I've always comparted to the
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 3: first myself because the clothing. I'm just a very clothing
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 3: oriented person.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: I mean time you want see that's where I think
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: of her mother is more the first.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah, okay, we're just skipping all the intervening. Yeah, okay,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 3: m sure, I'll take it.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: And she's the one who's elected very young at the
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: Virginal War, right, helped helped lead it lived for a
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: long time, right, like yeah, okay.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I hadn't thought about that, but sure I
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 3: said what I said. Yeah, no, no, I think you're correct.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: Right, guys, I'm gonna have to I'm have to go now.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: My dog, My dog's but coming over.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 3: Is a long recording. Thank you for dropping in.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: No, it's pure. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: I thank you for having me.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: And John really, thank you so much for everything you've
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: you've done for us. It's really been been a pleasure
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: having you and a pleasure knowing you for all these years.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: Right, it's been pretty, it's been pretty. I'm glad to
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: see you on all the pictures of your wedding as well.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: I was fantastic to see you both.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: Fell appreciate it, appreciate it all right, good night, I
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: have a great night.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: Cheers, guys, bye bye bye.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: All right, we really only have the readout.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: I think that's really yeah, though we are at the
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: final paragraph at this point.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: Yep, all right, so yeah, I will I will just
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 3: read us out in this lovely fourth wall breaking Jordanian
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 3: style paragraph behind the Lion of Andor, but not a
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 3: word about behind Elane Trakande, nearly half her support was
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 3: suspect one way or another. Jared Sarand was still on
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: the loose with not an inconsiderable force, and she would
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 3: have trouble from Alaurian eventually. It was never this way
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: in stories. In stories, everything was always wrapped up neatly
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 3: by the end. Real life was much messier. Still, she
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: had the throne at last. There was still the coronation,
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 3: but that was a formality now. As she led the
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 3: procession from the Grand Hall, chatting with one in Pelavar,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: thunder rolled overhead like marshal drums beating the march for
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: Tarman Guiden, how long before and Ors banners had to
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 3: march to the last battle?
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: And yeah, just in stories, I think this is even
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: simple for like, I think he's being like, yeah, I know,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: this is kind of wrapped up really quick.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: But right, but it's not neat and clean for the
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 3: people in it, even if it feels that way.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: To you the reader, Right, So I just kind of
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: love is that little little fourth breaking. Also, like Jared
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: out being out in the wilderness, He's taken care of
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: by a bubble of evil and then his men rebel.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: Remember that's that's a really good Jared sarand dies alone, whimpering,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 3: tied to a tree, left alone by his Yeah, the woods.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: It's very sad.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: So do not worry about him coming back.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: To finally, Yeah, he'll he's a non issue.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everything's are Yeah.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 3: No, for sure, for sure. I'm in some Facebook groups
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 3: of podcast editors just kind of like, you know, hanging
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 3: out on the edges of like the cool kids party,
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: like trying to like pick up some tips and like
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 3: the discussions around all the different AI tools that people
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 3: are using, and like it can auto transcribe your stuff
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: and then you can edit the transcript and it'll automatically
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 3: edit the audio just like all in one package, which
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 3: also is your recording package, which is also your publishing package.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: Just like yeah, ah yeah, Adobe, You've just rolled up
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: something called Adobe Podcast And that's exactly what that does
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah, I think it's still in testing at
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: the moment, like beta testing, but they're they're keen to
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: get it pushed. We've just rolled not my department, but
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: a So there's a new technology at that my attendance
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: recording technology at the university, and they've helped people get
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: used to how to use it. They created some videos
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: with different like this is how I use the app,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: this is how academics use it. But they didn't use people.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: They used AI. Yeah. The people look really quite peculiar
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: and sound a bit strange. It's the uncanny Valley types situation.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't need this. This is not what we
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 3: asked for.
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: It's like those people are what they called, you know
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: when the like the dark Friend's social where you've got
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: the deserving people who.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 3: They like know what you want, like ahead of time
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 3: and everything. Yeah, yeah, that's very much.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: That's that's terrifying. Yeah, very good call.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 3: Artists always predict the worst things that we're actually going
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: to do. That it always gets predicted in our first.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: Because they're often looking backwards and then abstracting it, and
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: somehow that also predicts the future because abstract past repeats
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: well plus.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: We didn tend to invent things we imagined. Yes, right,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 3: then that's the other side, right, It's like play tectonics.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: Is it a push or is it a pull?
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: The answer is yes, always goes back to geology.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, for me, I was like, where's my transporter?
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: Come on? Until until I can transport matter, I don't.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff that's inspired
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: in space by Star Trek.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 3: As much as we yeah, like we keep building to that,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: that ideal that we've created, So you know, I'm holding
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 3: that hope for transporters. That's all I'm saying.
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: Nonsense as I type on my glass pad with buttons
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: on it, that we could oh wait, yeah.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and if if the fashion still included vests,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: it would all fit in your vest pocket, just like
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 3: Tesla intended.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: And the further we get into the modern era, and
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: then the more we realized that the U eyes that
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: they used in Star Trek just weren't that good.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 3: They really are. That is one of the funny things
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 3: about rewatching Star Trek is like, ooh, what is what
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: is happening? I don't think I would like that interface, and.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: Yet somehow get in the future the more. I believe
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: that they get a shitty interface because it was paid
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: for by the lowest bidder and someone who didn't know
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: what they were doing. Like, oh, yeah, that makes sense
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: right like the well, I guess not in the utopia
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: that is Star Trek, but yah, yeah.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: Honestly, the worst part is that it beeps all the time. Like,
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 3: I get you need that for TV reasons. I needed
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 3: to respond, but like, I don't let my devices make
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 3: noise at me, Like I would go insane on one
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 3: of those ships. Anything you need done, there has to
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 3: be a beat, boot boot boop. No I can't. I cannot.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: So I designed touch panels for for work user interfaces
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: that make projectors come on that kind of thing, and
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: we're like, well, I've been in the I've been there
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: about twelve years now. And the technology that was there
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: when I started relatively new touch panel type technology, and
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: you didn't have a choice but for the buttons to
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: make noises, and yeah, well they want to built in speakers,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: and they didn't have tactile touch like you see some
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: people using on their mobiles if they have a hit
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: a button. But yeah, as it's gone on, that's become
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: less and less people are realizing, no, you don't. You
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: don't want a button making a beep every time you
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: press it. Yeah, the technology went from mandatory beeps to
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: now okay, yeah, we've done that. We've gone through that phase.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: We've gone past our trek. Yeah.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: Although Athalon and Chat is pointing out that the noises
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 3: are helpful for blind people for sure, if you don't
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 3: have sight and you have to rely on sound more
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: absolutely for sure. That is that again, Just give us options.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: Just don't make mandatory noises right right, allow me to choose.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 3: If I had to be in a starship and it
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 3: beeped at me, I would freak out, but that would
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 3: just be me.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: Having the noises on my keyboard when I'm typing does
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: help me so much type faster? Do I have them off?
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: Absolute fucko lutely refuse to listen to it doesn't help
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: me type faster? Yeah, it would, it would if I
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: left them on. But I can't stand the noise and
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: typing in public, sitting next to somebody.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's just annoying, right, Like I'm about
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: ready to upgrade my keyboard because it's so loud. It's
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 3: so loud.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the days when we can implant audio,
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: just headphones into our ears so we never have to
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: take them out and put them in and then just
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: like then we try, yeahory nerve right, and then we
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: don't have to worry about any of that. We can
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: just have those sounds going and only we can hear them.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: It'll be great.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: A couple of the guys at work I've got forgot
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: they call them now. They've been walking around for the
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: last couple of weeks because they've got these things off Amazon,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: which headphones, but they don't go in your ears. They
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: sit just in front of your ears, the conduction, that's
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: the word them. But they just walk around with them,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: looking like the cybermen or something.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: Just yep. Yeah. The I keep waiting for them to
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: turn means like you will be assimilated. I'm like, okay, fair, fair,
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: give me my headphones. I'm gonna put those on.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, no, I really really like those until
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 3: I got addicted to wearing these. That was I lived
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: in those for like a couple of years. I love
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 3: those things.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: That's what Apple intelligence actually means.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I guess I should apologize for not having
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: an episode out last week I did have to work.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: My schedule got rearranged for training because I had to
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: be there for the trainer schedule, not my schedule, and
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't properly plan ahead of time to record NEXTRA episode.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: So yes, despite being out for a month, I immediately
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: came back for a week and then went out again
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: for another week, as it tends to happen. So I'm
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: very sorry about that. But today we're back with you know,
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: more than two Yeah, I.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 3: Guess a very very longtime fan of the podcast guest here,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 3: because we're going to once we get through the first chapter,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 3: we're doing a doubleheader today, then we will be getting
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 3: to some kick ass Elaine politicking. And yeah, this is
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: also what visit and or on Twitter is the yeah yeah,
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 3: you're a real you're a real camelin Stan. Uh you
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 3: know Elaine Stan And we're like, I want to do
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 3: some Elaine chapter stuff. So the importance of Dylan seemed
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 3: like a good one to get you in on the.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: Cinching of the crown this one.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I obvious see the sinching. The big moment came
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: in the previous chapter, but this one is This one
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: is the moment where there's no but there's no barriers left. Yeah,
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: there's andw I've been doing for six years now.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 3: Wow, I love that channel.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: That is really nice.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 3: It's fun just like random little like ads for like
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 3: local spas or like restaurants or whatever. It's great tourism department.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 3: It's awesome.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: I feel like it adds a lot to like the
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: world that is twitter of time to be like, oh yeah,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: there's a guy advertising for like Cameland. Like it's one
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: of those things is like just goes on and you're like,
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: wait this, Actually, I should realize that there's more work
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: going into this than I realized, because it does just
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: feel like a normal ad in the world that you
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: would encounter on a day to day basis like, oh no,
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: this is great.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I love doing it. It's just making it,
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: like doing the travel updates and the traffic reports of
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: people coming in and out of Camlan. It's just I
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: just want to make it seem so so naturalized and
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: normal that I don't even care if I get that
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: many likes. I think the most likes I've ever had
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: on something is like twenty or something. I don't care
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: about that. I just I just love making these little things.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: To be honest, I haven't done it much for the
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: last couple of months, but I should really get back
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: into that.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know Twitter being what it is, like, oh, that's.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: A big part of it.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: It is. I have a hard time loonging onto it.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: I'll admit it's yeah, but.
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 3: You know it's great, Like we've got our advertising, you know,
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 3: for Camblin, and there's also the tablet with real weekly news.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: You know, there's just all these little things that people
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 3: do that just make that I wish Twitter was less
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: of a healthscape because.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had fake arguments with weekly well well news on.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: I don't publish that about the Camelan police.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: It's so correct.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: That's so perfect the government telling off the press, right, I.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: Mean, one are tablets for if not to had salacious lives.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly and you're like, no, the Crown would prefer
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: you didn't do that. So it's wonderful.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: I do find myself as a I do find the
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: channel as a pr for and or I do find
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: it defending Gowan more than it should do.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, family, his family on my re Listen,
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: I'm realizing towers of Midnight has just a lot of
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: Golwin and Gollin chapters, and I'm just like, oh, that's
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: why I don't like this one as much as the
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: other two. Just like this, I'm I keep, you know,
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: booting up the audiobook going, oh, it's a Gollin chapter,
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: and like, the disappointment in my soul is real and
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't expect that, but it's there.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 3: So we're gonna go through that book fast.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: Can you punch up the encyclopedia Watt and see see
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: when when different character channel chapter rocks end and begin. Yeah.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and his unfortunately ends early or begins early and
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: ends late.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's always that it was unble.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: Just floating to the service. Elia keeps hitting that lever
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: keeps popping back up again. It's like I flushed you
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: so many times. I put you on the front line,
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: and you go floating back up again. Jesus Christ. I
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: still I'm still going by my theory though that I mean,
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: everybody loves the He got a concussion because Matt hit
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: him on the head, right, and that's when his behavior changed.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going with Masana brainwatched him to be loyal to
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: the Amberlin and it's only when he heard that Agwayne
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: was Amberlin that he could leave Elida's side and go
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: to a Quaine. And that's why he could never leave
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: and go to Elaine. Sorry, Agwain, why he could leave
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: it agwayn Aline got those names mixed up again, Sorry
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: about that. But yeah, once he heard that Agwayne was Ambreline,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: he could go to her side, but he could never
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: leave and go to a Laine's side because of sis compulsion.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's yeah, there's a that's a good argument. I
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: mean you could also say that he's a he's a
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: young he's too young for his own good, and he's
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: a he's torn between different things. He's ahead of the
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: young things which he doesn't really care about. He's the
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: first prince, which again he doesn't really care about.
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: That's my promise. He doesn't seem to care about any
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: of those things. And like, but he does he should,
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: But I think it has That's why I'm like, oh,
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: I think compulsions involved, right, It is like his values
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: are out of whack. Is that or we give him
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: his own agency?
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to do that. It's a it's
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: a difficult one with him because you can also see
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: parts of you can see parts of it's really difficult
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: to see what Jordren was trying to get out with him,
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: and then how I don't know how Sanderson wrote him.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: There's no clues about how he's supposed to go or
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 1: his ark. And you can see elements of Gallard in him.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: You can see elements and more Gaze in him. You
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: can see elements of Elane in him. And it's not
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: a good mixture.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: No, no, there's I really think Jordan is this. He's like,
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: I'm a Discovery writer and he discovered he didn't like Gowan,
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: like like, I think that's like he wrote this character
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: and didn't really know what to do with him and went, well,
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: I kind of hate this guy. I'm gonna write him
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: like a dick, you know, like that. It's very much
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: like this is what my character would do. Vibes from
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: Gowin right, Like it's.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: Like soup's good, soda is good, chocolate is good. You
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: put them together.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: Oh man, we'll speak for yourself.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: You want to cook, I'm just saying, okay, never mind
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: radio radio. What was the food like at the wedding?
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 3: It was delicious, So the cake definitely was what stood
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 3: out the most.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the fantastic cheesecake was definitely the stand up at them,
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 3: but the rest of the food was acceptable.
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: I have so much leftover taco meat. We've been giving
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: it a We've been giving away gallon bags of meat
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: to people, like because we were recent. We just had
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 2: so much leftover. We put it all into these gallon
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: ziploc bags and put it in the freezer and we
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: had something like twelve or thirteen ziploc bags of meat. Wow,
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: you left over.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 3: Really somehow miss misexpected people's consumption because everyone came. It's
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: not like you didn't have people that were there.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: So it was it was partially overbuying, right, because we
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: want to make sure we had enough, and it's partially
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: the place we went gives you an insane amount of
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 2: meat per taco. And I think it just like people
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: weren't taking that much meat, Like normally when you get
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: those tacos from this place, they are stuffed full, and
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: people were putting like a little bit of meat on
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: their their things, and like, so I think it's just.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know, no, Yeah, I remember Brandon told
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 3: me that him and Neil kept looking for more rice
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 3: because people were taking a reasonable amount of rice and
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 3: there wasn't that much rice, and they just kept finding
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 3: more and more meat, and it was just like meat
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 3: on meat on meat, and they were like both very confused.
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: He's like to tall lanky men just being like, why
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 3: is there so much meat?
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: So that makes sense, Yeah, it was just there weren't
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: really meant to be rice tacos. These are like street
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: tacos that are supposed to be like meat with a
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: little bit of onions and cilantro on them.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 3: Like the rice was really a side Like yeah, yeah,
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 3: that memo was not communicating.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so you know, not everything went perfectly sure, right,
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: but like the food was delicious. The food was really good,
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: and yeah, everything else went really well. And I just
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 2: got distracted and off topic. So I can talk about
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: my wedding all day. Let's talk about the book.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to The Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 3: Please rate and review us on your podcast app, and
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 3: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 3: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 3: more podcasts from Fox and Draven Media, visit our website
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 3: at Foxendravenmedia dot com