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Transcript

Methylene Blue: Biohacker’s Secret for Energy & Detoxification With Dr. Scott Sherr · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

• 0:00
  We're always looking for novel ways to approach very common problems.
• 0:03
  Sleep, stress, anxiety, focus, energy.
• 0:07
  Methaling glue has gotten a lot of attention, not all of it good.
• 0:09
  94% of US adults might have gone to this function.
• 0:12
  Methaling glue, what it can do is it can help compensate for that in various ways.
• 0:14
  What is the scuttle butt that's got it with negative press and just did bunk that?
• 0:18
  It did start off as a...
• 0:23
  Alright, we're back on the performance driven living podcast.
• 0:26
  I'm Mark Young, your host, and I am joined today by Dr. Scottshire.
• 0:29
  I'm going to always saw the scuttle.
• 0:31
  I always read this introduction.
• 0:33
  I know who you are.
• 0:34
  I know who you are.
• 0:35
  The team puts together these intros, and they're just so nice that it's almost a shame
• 0:38
  to waste them because I would never do you this justice.
• 0:41
  The intro says it's part of our ritual.
• 0:44
  Today we're joined by Dr. Scottshire, a board-certified internist and H-P-O-T specialist
• 0:50
  who serves as COO at Troscriptions and co-hosts the Smarter, Not Harder podcast.
• 0:55
  He leads integrative hyperbaric and health optimization work at hyperbaric medical solutions
• 1:01
  and consults with patients and practitioners worldwide through a virtual practice.
• 1:05
  His approach blends health optimization that is in with practical data-driven tools so
• 1:09
  people can turn metabolism recovery and focus into daily habits that actually stick.
• 1:15
  His lane is turning health optimization into something you can actually do.
• 1:19
  Glad you're here, Dr. Scher.
• 1:21
  It could be with you, Mark.
• 1:22
  There's a go.
• 1:23
  Did that adequately describe it?
• 1:24
  I'm sure.
• 1:25
  It's good and dead.
• 1:26
  Perfect.
• 1:27
  Sometimes I laugh because I was a guest on nation's podcasts not too long ago.
• 1:32
  She finished introducing me and I was like, oh my gosh, who is that guy?
• 1:36
  I want to know him.
• 1:37
  He sounds so cool.
• 1:38
  I typically don't listen to my intros because I, you know, I black out.
• 1:41
  I don't really understand.
• 1:42
  I don't want to be honest to you, but I was a guest on hers and I was just lifting to
• 1:46
  her introduce me.
• 1:47
  Yeah.
• 1:48
  I was like, wow.
• 1:49
  I'm impressed with me.
• 1:50
  Well, you've got to be a certain age and you're not, you know, derelict, you've done
• 1:54
  a couple of things.
• 1:55
  Yeah.
• 1:56
  Hopefully.
• 1:57
  That's the intention anyway.
• 1:58
  At least.
• 1:59
  At least.
• 2:00
  Well, first of all, thanks for taking the time.
• 2:01
  We're out here at the metabolic health day conference, the worst of its kind, where you
• 2:04
  think it's super cool.
• 2:05
  Obviously, we both know 100 of the same people.
• 2:08
  We do.
• 2:09
  But having you here, I'm curious.
• 2:11
  Anybody who's watching here may be able to tell that my home mouth is blue.
• 2:14
  And this is, yeah.
• 2:15
  Yeah.
• 2:16
  Yeah.
• 2:17
  Well, I think it's intentional though.
• 2:18
  I got to be ready for this when I'm talking to the blue, left-wing blue guy.
• 2:21
  I'll say, and I hate to even box you in this way, okay?
• 2:27
  Because I know you as being one of the smartest guys I know and incredibly diverse in your
• 2:32
  information or knowledge base.
• 2:34
  But methylene blue has become a trademark for you guys.
• 2:37
  It has.
• 2:38
  Yeah.
• 2:39
  It has.
• 2:40
  I'm okay with it.
• 2:41
  I'll take it.
• 2:42
  It's okay.
• 2:43
  Well, I mean, there's so much more to you than methylene blue.
• 2:44
  Well, the idea really is that we started with a nonprofit organization.
• 2:47
  The nonprofit's called Health Optimization Medicine Practice.
• 2:50
  We founded that in 2017, my colleague, Dr. Ted, who's the founder, the pioneer of the
• 2:55
  whole framework.
• 2:56
  He was using it in clinical practice for about a decade.
• 2:59
  You brought to the U.S.
• 3:00
  wanted to make it a nonprofit so other doctors can get trained in it.
• 3:02
  So we started, we incorporated it in 2017 as a nonprofit.
• 3:06
  And then it's called Health Optimization Medicine and Practice or Home Hope for short.
• 3:11
  And then from there, we were starting to develop coursework and starting to train practitioners.
• 3:14
  And then we realized that we needed a new company, a more like a four-profit company to actually
• 3:19
  work on helping people right now while they're on the longer path of optimizing their health.
• 3:24
  And so because we know Health Optimization can take a while for people.
• 3:27
  It's not something that can happen overnight for most.
• 3:29
  It didn't start overnight.
• 3:30
  It's not going to fix overnight.
• 3:31
  Exactly.
• 3:32
  It took you 40, 50, however many years to get to where you are.
• 3:34
  You can't expect that tomorrow you're going to feel like you did when you were 20.
• 3:38
  So transcriptions was developed as a way to kind of help people right now while they're
• 3:42
  on that longer path.
• 3:43
  So the first products that we came out with back in 2020 were related to methylene blue.
• 3:49
  And at that time, we were the first company to come out with a commercial product with
• 3:53
  methylene blue in it.
• 3:54
  And ever since then, in 2020, we came out as a chemical blue canotine, which is a combination
• 3:59
  of methylene blue with nicotine, caffeine, and CBD.
• 4:02
  Six months later, we came out with just blue, which is our pure methylene blue, trophy.
• 4:05
  And then a couple of years later, we came out with a practitioner version of that just blue
• 4:09
  called TRO plus blue.
• 4:11
  Until 2024, Mark, there was probably four to eight companies that were taking and using
• 4:18
  and had their own products.
• 4:19
  Not that any of them were very good.
• 4:20
  We tested them all and they were not.
• 4:22
  That's another story we can talk about later.
• 4:24
  But since the beginning of this year, there's been a huge amount of interest in methylene
• 4:29
  blue because it just got very popular on podcast, RFK, was caught on an airplane taking
• 4:35
  methylene blue and that one viral.
• 4:37
  So very good for us and it's been a great year overall.
• 4:40
  I want to interrupt that thought actually because that's actually one of the questions
• 4:43
  that I have for you is methylene blue has gotten a lot of attention.
• 4:47
  Not all of it good.
• 4:48
  Of course.
• 4:49
  Some of the stories out there, and it's like, I want to give you this opportunity to defend
• 4:52
  it, if you will.
• 4:53
  Sure.
• 4:54
  It's crazy as that sounds.
• 4:55
  But methylene blue, a lot of the press out there is, oh, it's an industrial solvent and
• 5:00
  it shouldn't be this and that blah, blah, blah, blah, and so on and so forth, that it
• 5:02
  was never designed to be this and, you know, I would arguably say that many of the things
• 5:06
  that we used today were never designed for something, but we end up with, you know,
• 5:10
  a certain amount of serendipity and we find things that were accidental discoveries, right?
• 5:14
  Yeah.
• 5:15
  Like, we're a friend which was rat poison, right?
• 5:16
  That's a common one.
• 5:17
  So like, a common blood thinner medication that we've used for over, you know, almost
• 5:22
  five decades no longer as much was actually rat poison before they realized it was good
• 5:27
  for as a blood thinner.
• 5:28
  So very common.
• 5:29
  Absolutely.
• 5:30
  And I mean, it happens all over the place.
• 5:31
  There's so many.
• 5:32
  I mean, I could go through a bunch of them, but never the last.
• 5:34
  Mine's 57.
• 5:35
  I'm kidding.
• 5:36
  But, Deceptive.
• 5:37
  Deceptive layers.
• 5:38
  Preparation age.
• 5:39
  Like, you saw the Austin Powers, Steve.
• 5:40
  That's movie rate.
• 5:41
  Of course.
• 5:42
  Preparations 8 through G fails.
• 5:43
  Perfect.
• 5:44
  Yeah.
• 5:45
  Yeah, yeah.
• 5:46
  But, but with methylene blue, like, what is the magic behind it?
• 5:50
  Because like, some people are just these raving fans, you know, amazing.
• 5:54
  Obviously, I use it in blue tongue and I have some at home.
• 5:58
  So, I'm not afraid of it, but it does get a lot of bad press.
• 6:02
  And you speak to that.
• 6:03
  Like, what is what's going on with methylene blue?
• 6:05
  What is the scottal butt that's got it with negative press and just debunk that?
• 6:09
  Yeah.
• 6:10
  I mean, so because it's been around such a long time, there's a lot of history around
• 6:13
  methylene blue.
• 6:14
  And it really wasn't until this year that it got to some sort of like fever pitch where
• 6:19
  it got so popular.
• 6:20
  So quickly, then you got all the detractors coming in and talking about why you shouldn't
• 6:23
  be taking methylene blue.
• 6:25
  It did start off as a industrial die, actually.
• 6:28
  And it started off that way in the 1870s.
• 6:30
  And then they figured out 1870s, like a long time ago, talking long time.
• 6:34
  And then in 1897, it became...
• 6:36
  Well, nothing's changed in science in 150 years, though.
• 6:38
  No, no.
• 6:39
  I mean, what was interesting about then is that they had no antimicrobials and antibiotics
• 6:44
  didn't exist, right?
• 6:45
  So, in 1897, methylene blue became the first drug registered with the FDA, nascent FDA
• 6:51
  at that time from malaria.
• 6:53
  So they realized that they did all these studies that, and methylene blue had this amazing
• 6:56
  ability to kill bugs without killing the host.
• 6:58
  And that was novel at the time.
• 7:00
  They said, no, they've really molecular compounds like to do that.
• 7:03
  And so from 1870 to about 1950, it was purely used as an antimicrobial, antiviral, antifungal,
• 7:09
  antibacterial, urinary tract infections, fungal infections, even during World War II.
• 7:14
  If you went to the Pacific, you took prophylactic methylene blue, and they had all these stories
• 7:18
  about, you know, methylene blue and the blue, you know, in the end of the bathroom, these
• 7:21
  that makes your urine blue.
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  And so...
• 7:24
  But after antibiotics came around in the 1950s, methylene blue became less use in those
• 7:27
  capacities.
• 7:28
  And then it had a number of different sort of chapters along the way.
• 7:31
  And the one that was most interesting to us as a company was in the last several decades
• 7:35
  its interest in utilization and mitochondrial function.
• 7:39
  But I mean, the detractors, there's a couple different things.
• 7:41
  The first is that there's different quality of methylene blue out there.
• 7:44
  You can get industrial chemical grade, methylene blue that has up to at least 10% to 11% in
• 7:49
  periodies, mercury, cadamium, lead, and arsenic.
• 7:52
  So if you take fish tank cleaner, it's actually an example of one of these kinds of things.
• 7:57
  So if you are a fish person, you have fish tanks that need to be cleaned.
• 8:01
  You can use methylene blue containing fish tank cleaner.
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  It's typically up to about 11 or 12% in periodies.
• 8:06
  So, hi.
• 8:07
  Then you have what's called USP grade methylene blue, which is the pharmaceutical grade methylene
• 8:12
  blue.
• 8:13
  The problem with even USP though is that it could be contaminated with heavy metals.
• 8:17
  And like most of the things that we've tested out there do not meet their label claim for
• 8:20
  potency or purity.
• 8:22
  But their potency says they said it's like whatever it is, it's about 40%, 50% typical
• 8:27
  of the dose that they say on the label.
• 8:28
  So it's very, the potency is typically not what they say, especially the liquid's out
• 8:31
  there.
• 8:32
  So the main, that's one thing is like the actual quality of the methylene blue itself.
• 8:37
  And then from there, you can go into the, the blueness of the whole compound, right?
• 8:43
  So there was a couple different articles that came out, it was like April of this year,
• 8:47
  2025 that talked about, if you take methylene blue, you're going to get a blue brain, meaning
• 8:51
  that you take methylene blue, it's going to die your, your actual brain blue.
• 8:54
  They took this autopsy study that had been you, that actually showed these blue brains
• 8:59
  and published it and said, this is all because of methylene blue.
• 9:02
  And they weren't wrong, it mostly was because of methylene blue.
• 9:05
  But the difference here is that the dosing that they were using was ridiculously high.
• 9:09
  So typically clinically, we use four milligrams, 25 milligrams, maybe up to 50 or 75 in some,
• 9:15
  you know, some cases.
• 9:16
  But in this particular, in the study, they were using around three milligrams per kilogram,
• 9:20
  which is an average about 240 to 280 milligrams of IV methylene blue.
• 9:25
  And they were doing it in people that were acutely sick with septic shock, cardiopulmonary
• 9:29
  arrest, severe overwhelming, something, right?
• 9:32
  And they were just about to die and they were using methylene blue as a last-dish effort
• 9:36
  to keep them alive.
• 9:37
  And in this case, these cases obviously didn't work.
• 9:39
  So that huge amount of methylene blue did cause a blue brain.
• 9:43
  But lower amounts of methylene blue do not do that.
• 9:46
  They do have a blue pigment, it is a blue pigment, and it does change from blue to colorless
• 9:50
  in the mitochondria itself.
• 9:51
  It goes down this sort of cycle, depending on what is doing with it, there's don't any
• 9:54
  or accepting electrons.
• 9:55
  But it's not going to make your whole brain blue, and it's also going to be peed out within
• 9:58
  about four hours as well.
• 9:59
  I'm just around a chuckling because you made a comm, you felt the need to qualify that it
• 10:03
  didn't work on the people whose brains they dissected.
• 10:05
  And I was like, I mean, well, if it worked, they dissected their brains, like, sorry,
• 10:10
  master the obvious over here.
• 10:11
  Yeah.
• 10:12
  You can be smart.
• 10:13
  I'll just be here for comedic relief.
• 10:14
  Yeah, no, it's all good.
• 10:15
  There's a couple of other controversies.
• 10:16
  One of the other ones is that you shouldn't take methylene blue if you're, if you're health
• 10:19
  optimized, if you're, if you're healthy and, and your mitochondria work well.
• 10:22
  Because the way that methylene blue works is by really helping the mitochondria, the
• 10:25
  part of your cell that makes energy, make the mitochondria work better.
• 10:28
  And 94% of US adults have some element of mitochondrial dysfunction.
• 10:33
  And we have tons of mitochondria in some cells, like in our ovaries and sperm, ovaries,
• 10:37
  women, sperm for female males, obviously.
• 10:39
  And then in our brain, heart, musculoskeletissue, et cetera, that lots of mitochondria
• 10:44
  per cell.
• 10:45
  So the problem is that if you have mitochondria dysfunction, you can get symptomatic in those
• 10:49
  areas where, you know, brain fog, concentration problems, attention issue, mental health issues,
• 10:53
  infertility issues, exercise and use of fatigue, things like that.
• 10:56
  And so 94% of US adults mitochondria dysfunction, methodically what it can do is it can help compensate
• 11:02
  for that in various ways.
• 11:04
  And there's a lot of technicalities and biochemistry that we could go through if you want.
• 11:07
  But in essence, it can help, make, help you make more energy, if you're not making
• 11:10
  energy well.
• 11:11
  And the other side of things that can help you detox or work just like an antioxidant
• 11:15
  at the same time.
• 11:16
  Unpack that.
• 11:17
  Because to the average user or the average listener, who's listening to this conversation,
• 11:20
  I mean, I think everybody that listens to this anyways has heard mitochondria before
• 11:24
  we've talked about mitochondrial energy.
• 11:26
  We've talked about antioxidative properties and different supplements and whatnot.
• 11:31
  What makes this different than, I mean, it sounds crazy here and say like, we hear, I'm
• 11:38
  going to go on the antioxidative, sure, train here real quick because that's something
• 11:42
  that a lot of people know about everything from a handful of blueberries to, you know,
• 11:47
  C60 molecules to, to, you know, protein function.
• 11:51
  Sure.
• 11:52
  I mean, it's all over the place because like everything is an antioxidant nowadays and
• 11:56
  it seems and everything supports mitochondrial health, it seems because we've, we've just
• 12:00
  hit these buzzwords particularly in the longevity space, you know, everything's providing mitochondrial
• 12:04
  support.
• 12:05
  I'm sorry.
• 12:06
  I know some of the stuff that's out here that's saying it provides mitochondrial support
• 12:09
  and, right?
• 12:10
  No.
• 12:11
  Yeah.
• 12:12
  The thing that's interesting about nothing in blue is what's called a redox cyclor, what
• 12:14
  that means is that it's got this really interesting ability to be able to enhance energy
• 12:19
  production and also work like a, so increased energy and also, so the thing about when you
• 12:24
  make energy, you also don't, you don't just make ATP, which is our energy currency.
• 12:28
  You also make what are called waste products, reactive oxygen species, water, carbon dioxide
• 12:32
  that's we breathe off, right?
• 12:33
  But these reactive oxygen species, we need some of them, but the problem is that like humans
• 12:38
  at this moment are very toxic and are typically antioxidant and deficient.
• 12:43
  And so that energy that's produced can cause too much stress on the system and cause symptoms,
• 12:49
  like can cause inflammatory kinds of symptoms.
• 12:51
  So methane blue can actually work like an antioxidant directly, so there's very few compounds
• 12:54
  out there marked that work both increasing energy and doing detox at the same time.
• 12:59
  So what's nice about that is it's not stressful for the body to make more energy because it's
• 13:03
  also going to have something that's going to help on the detox side too, right?
• 13:05
  So that's the difference between, you know, just kicking an antioxidant or just something
• 13:09
  that's going to energy enhance.
• 13:10
  So you can take some nicotine, nicotine is going to increase the amount of energy you
• 13:13
  make, but it's not going to have any capacity to help with the detox on.
• 13:16
  You can take vitamin C or you can take aflipoic acid or glutathione, and those are great
• 13:21
  on the antioxidant side, but they don't help with the energy side.
• 13:24
  So methane blue has got this nice capacity to do both, which is very uncommon and special
• 13:28
  about it.
• 13:29
  Absolutely.
• 13:30
  And part of that all relates back to and I, I laugh and they say that the body has innate
• 13:33
  intelligence to heal, but at the same time, some of the body's own functions damage the
• 13:37
  body, right?
• 13:38
  Like breathing itself causes oxidative stress like, well, which is why we have an immune system
• 13:42
  is why we have an antioxidative system.
• 13:44
  We just need to make sure that those systems are supported properly.
• 13:47
  But the idea, I didn't actually know that the methane blue is actually doing energy production
• 13:50
  and detox.
• 13:51
  That is a uniqueness because it is very few additional things out there that do both.
• 13:54
  And a couple other examples.
• 13:55
  One is actually a coffee, like coffee actually gives you caffeine and there's polyphenols,
• 14:00
  you know, kinds of things.
• 14:01
  So you have the caffeine, which increases energy and you have the polyphenols, which are
• 14:03
  more like antioxidants, kind of things, but it's a tea would be the same thing.
• 14:07
  So there are some things out there that do have both.
• 14:09
  In molecular hydrogen might also have this capacity as well.
• 14:11
  It can actually help with energy and detox at the same time.
• 14:13
  So, but methane blue is pretty special because you can start off in very, very low doses
• 14:17
  of it, like 4, 8, 16 milligrams.
• 14:20
  And as you tie trade up the dose, when you find the right dose, people are going to feel
• 14:23
  better if they're having issues, especially if they have chronic mitochondrial issues.
• 14:26
  But the controversy that I was alluding to earlier is that you shouldn't take methane blue
• 14:30
  if you have normal mitochondria because it's going to make them somehow worse.
• 14:33
  Right?
• 14:34
  So there's no evidence that that's the case.
• 14:35
  However, what I do recommend is if you're relatively well optimized, you probably don't
• 14:38
  need a lot of methane blue to compensate for mitochondrial dysfunction, but you may need
• 14:41
  it when you're under more stress, more significant stress.
• 14:44
  So think about it if you're, so there's some evidence that it can help with endurance,
• 14:48
  for example, because it can increase your capacity to make energy from oxygen longer because
• 14:53
  you can work just like oxygen in your cells, actually, nothing blue can.
• 14:56
  It also, it increases the time for your lactate thresholds, so you can go longer without
• 15:01
  hitting that threshold.
• 15:02
  And then you can, for longer, then you can do more work.
• 15:05
  In addition, if you're on an airplane, for example, you're pressurized on an airplane
• 15:10
  cabin to at 8,000 feet above sea level, so your epochs are going to plane.
• 15:13
  And so, nothing blue can compensate for the hypoxia.
• 15:15
  And if you're really, to be well optimized person, mitochondria working really well,
• 15:19
  you're 6% of the population, you can still use it under those kinds of circumstances,
• 15:23
  like sort of as needed for more stress, work, physical, cognitive, emotional, travel,
• 15:28
  those kinds of things.
• 15:29
  So that's something like scuba diving.
• 15:31
  So what about scuba diving?
• 15:32
  Just curious.
• 15:33
  I mean, you're talking about pressurization.
• 15:34
  And I'm a scuba diver, I like, I love diving, but the, you know, obviously your body's
• 15:39
  under a different type of pressure at that point because you're dealing with it and hyper-oxygenation
• 15:43
  from...
• 15:44
  And so I mean, what I would say there is that I do use methylene blue and people that
• 15:48
  are getting hyperbaric therapy that are going under more high oxygen conditions, especially
• 15:53
  if they don't have well optimized mitochondria because you want the oxygen to work well, you
• 15:57
  don't want the oxygen to kind of just be used as a reactive oxygen species and cause more
• 16:01
  stress.
• 16:02
  And so, methylene blue can help in those capacities.
• 16:04
  So I haven't used a specific for scuba diving, but I have used it for people that are under
• 16:08
  gillian or hyperbaric conditions.
• 16:10
  Okay, so I'm changing your topic here in time, okay?
• 16:12
  You just brought up something that I want to mention because you function doing HBOT, which
• 16:17
  is hyperbaric oxygen therapy for someone who's not sure.
• 16:20
  Yeah.
• 16:21
  And I know that you practice and you use this on patients and so on and so forth.
• 16:23
  So I want to give an opportunity again for you to kind of defend a space that's also
• 16:29
  gotten a black eye recently.
• 16:30
  Oh, yeah, sure.
• 16:32
  And specifically, there was a case in Troy Michigan where a hyperbaric oxygen chamber exploded
• 16:37
  and a child died.
• 16:39
  Coincidentally, it was the exact same clinic and unit that my sister took my niece to because
• 16:47
  she's autistic.
• 16:48
  Hmm.
• 16:49
  And they were actually learning Michigan exact same clinic and know well, I swear, I'm from
• 16:52
  it from Michigan original.
• 16:53
  Gotcha.
• 16:54
  Gotcha.
• 16:55
  So my sister's up there and Rose, her daughter, she's mild autistic.
• 16:58
  So they've actually been taking her for HBOT in hopes that it offsets some of the the
• 17:01
  autistic symptoms.
• 17:03
  Sure.
• 17:04
  And so of course, she got the phone call that this all exploded and so on and so forth
• 17:08
  and went through this.
• 17:09
  Oh, my gosh.
• 17:10
  I know that family.
• 17:11
  I knew that child.
• 17:12
  This is the same chamber that my own daughter had been in her multiple time that along.
• 17:15
  But I also am friends with Shannon over at IHA, right?
• 17:20
  And I had this conversation with Beth Hampson had this conversation with Shannon.
• 17:23
  And it was like HBOT suddenly gets this terrible black eye industry wide.
• 17:28
  I know the story.
• 17:29
  I want you to tell the story.
• 17:30
  Sure.
• 17:31
  When it comes to hyperbaric therapy, hyperbaric therapy is extremely safe.
• 17:34
  It's been around a long time.
• 17:35
  And many people that have died in chambers is almost on two hands in the last 200 years.
• 17:40
  I could say it's not a lot of people, but when it does happen, it's pretty spectacular.
• 17:44
  Unfortunately, especially in the kind of environment, unfortunately, this child wasn't in Michigan.
• 17:49
  So there's different ways you can do hyperbaric therapy.
• 17:51
  There is a way that they were doing it there is that it was 100% oxygen in the chamber itself.
• 17:56
  And then what you're supposed to be doing is doing very good servicing of the chambers
• 18:00
  themselves that you're actually doing that you have good and really specialized and specific
• 18:07
  types of intake every time you go into the chamber.
• 18:09
  So I work with tons of clinics that have this kind of set up and it's a very nice set up
• 18:13
  because you don't have to wear a mask because the other kind of set up is that you pressurize
• 18:17
  the chamber with air and you breathe oxygen through a mask.
• 18:20
  So the way that they did it in Michigan was 100% oxygen in the chamber.
• 18:24
  And the problem with that particular facility is that they weren't doing any maintenance
• 18:26
  on the chamber.
• 18:27
  They're actually forging the yearly maintenance on the chambers.
• 18:32
  And then something happened, we don't know exactly what yet, but something sparked in
• 18:36
  the chamber, probably a part of the actual chamber itself that got loose, we don't know
• 18:40
  for sure.
• 18:41
  No, actually my understanding is that the child had, so when you do hyperbaric oxygen
• 18:46
  but who haven't done it before, you're not allowed to have any metal on you.
• 18:49
  But I don't even know that part of the story.
• 18:51
  My understanding was that he had something in his pocket that they didn't catch that perhaps
• 18:55
  caused a spark and any kind of metal on metal in that type of environment with 100% oxygen,
• 19:00
  everything is flammable.
• 19:01
  Yeah, it's what happens.
• 19:02
  It's a very flammable environment, what happens.
• 19:04
  And so that's why you need to have very specific intake procedures when you're working with
• 19:09
  people into those kinds of environments.
• 19:11
  But they were also not doing the service on the chamber that they were supposed to and
• 19:15
  there were a bunch of other things.
• 19:16
  And so the thing about in that particular situation is it's devastating, right?
• 19:20
  And nobody wants to ever see that happen.
• 19:22
  But the challenge is that there's a lot of variation in hyperbaric facilities around
• 19:28
  the country if you're working outside of a hospital and outside of insurance and like
• 19:32
  they didn't have a medical director, they didn't have anybody on site.
• 19:34
  And so like if you're working with 100% oxygen in a chamber, you could do it very safely.
• 19:38
  I work with clinics all the time to do it.
• 19:40
  But you have to have the right intake, have the right supervision, you have to have the
• 19:42
  right maintenance on the chambers.
• 19:44
  And it could work great.
• 19:45
  I was in 100% oxygen chamber two months ago when I injured my calf and it was great
• 19:51
  not to have to wear a mask and everything else like that.
• 19:53
  I've done them.
• 19:54
  I actually post-surgical.
• 19:55
  I actually, yeah.
• 19:56
  And it did an entire round of like 11 or 12 HBOT visits and what was funny is I have to
• 20:00
  have to surgery actually had to wear like a compression garment that had a zipper.
• 20:03
  Okay.
• 20:04
  But I had to go in the unit.
• 20:06
  They scared the daylights out of me because all I'm like, don't touch it.
• 20:09
  I was like, I was like, you were in 100% I should ever move.
• 20:13
  It was 100% no mask and I'd go into the chamber.
• 20:16
  But my God, they scared the daylights out of me about having anything metal because you
• 20:20
  never go in with linen and cotton and yeah, yeah, touch nothing and touch the United.
• 20:25
  And it's like, so of course I was like, I'm going to explode because I was totally okay.
• 20:29
  Most people are totally okay.
• 20:30
  And the thing about is that there was actually another incident that happened just recently
• 20:33
  as well in a clinic in, I think Arizona actually or Utah, I can't remember and it was somebody
• 20:38
  that brought something into a chamber that wasn't supposed to and they went up to.
• 20:42
  And that was a different environment.
• 20:43
  That was actually pressurized air and then they pressurized it with air and then they were
• 20:47
  giving oxygen on a mask.
• 20:48
  But the mask probably wasn't fitting, fitting well enough and then they were getting oxygen
• 20:52
  into the chamber and they had something on their head or something like that and it
• 20:55
  went up.
• 20:56
  So the problem is that that of course gets all the press but in hyperburet therapy has been
• 21:01
  around for such a long time.
• 21:02
  There's a great technology and modality that, you know, that I'm okay having these conversations
• 21:06
  because safety is really important, no doubt about it.
• 21:08
  And I talk about safety a lot with what hyperburet medicine.
• 21:11
  And the reason I bring it up is not as good tactic for someone who's not familiar with
• 21:15
  it.
• 21:16
  In fact, it's almost a to provide credibility back to it because it, you know, when it
• 21:20
  gets a black eye, I think we need to talk about what are the for sureables that caused
• 21:23
  this because they are uncommon and they are negligent in these particular ways.
• 21:28
  It's like no different than if a doctor had a malpractice type suit, right?
• 21:31
  Things happen for sure.
• 21:33
  But my fear, my fear behind it is that when a non-conventional treatment, whether it's
• 21:37
  methylene blue, whether it's a HB or D, when these types of things are out there, people
• 21:42
  automatically have their radar up about their credibility.
• 21:46
  And they should.
• 21:47
  And I think it's important, you know, because you want to go to a facility if you're comfortable.
• 21:49
  And I would always tell people is like, look, there should be a medical director on staff,
• 21:53
  there should be a safety director on staff, especially if there's 100% option around.
• 21:56
  And you should feel comfortable with the people that are there, right?
• 21:58
  And then if you don't know, if you don't feel comfortable, call me or call one of my clinics
• 22:02
  that I know and we can tell you what their reputation is, I can give you like an idea.
• 22:05
  I mean, no one asks those questions going to a public swimming pool, right?
• 22:08
  And people drown in swimming pools on a regular basis.
• 22:10
  That's true.
• 22:11
  Like, it becomes one of those things, but no one questions the safety of a swimming pool.
• 22:16
  Everybody questions the safety of HBOT now, and like you said, like you can.
• 22:19
  But I think it's a good conversation to have.
• 22:21
  I'm okay with, is that I think it's important that clinics get their act together, you
• 22:24
  know?
• 22:25
  And I think also, and I don't work with clinics that don't get their act together.
• 22:28
  And there are, I mean, look, the thing about pressurizing with air instead of oxygen,
• 22:32
  that's a lot safer.
• 22:33
  So if you have a clinic where you're going to a clinic that they're pressurizing you
• 22:36
  with air and then you're wearing a mask for oxygen, that's typically a lot safer and
• 22:40
  very high load, much lower risk because the oxygen concentration in the air is going
• 22:45
  to be much lower and closer to sea level comparatively than if you were in 100% oxygen.
• 22:50
  So that's interesting.
• 22:51
  Yeah.
• 22:52
  And then from there, it's a matter of like always for me having the conversation and kind
• 22:57
  of like taking it to a different level, which is like, okay, you're scared about hyperbaric
• 23:00
  therapy.
• 23:01
  So let's get through that.
• 23:02
  But then the question is like, well, why do you want to get in the chamber in the first
• 23:04
  place?
• 23:05
  Is it right?
• 23:06
  Is it necessary for you?
• 23:07
  Right.
• 23:08
  And like, what's the best way to do it?
• 23:09
  And how can you create like a good, integrative plan for you so that, you know, you're going
• 23:10
  to make your most, make the most out of being in the chamber too?
• 23:13
  Pivot.
• 23:14
  Troscriptions.
• 23:15
  Yeah.
• 23:16
  Obviously you, Boomer Anderson, you guys own this company, innovative.
• 23:20
  Yeah.
• 23:21
  And it's been fun.
• 23:22
  You guys are not doing what's normal.
• 23:24
  You guys are deliberately reaching for stuff that's abnormal, which I love because that's
• 23:28
  kind of like that.
• 23:29
  That's unusual.
• 23:30
  Not abnormal.
• 23:31
  Yeah.
• 23:32
  There you go.
• 23:33
  Novel.
• 23:34
  I like the word novel better.
• 23:35
  Let's do that.
• 23:36
  But you guys are reaching for novelty ingredients.
• 23:37
  You're looking for things much like, and I laugh because of your recent partnership with
• 23:41
  Young Goose.
• 23:42
  Yeah.
• 23:43
  Blue peptide spray.
• 23:44
  Yeah.
• 23:45
  That's been fun.
• 23:46
  Right.
• 23:47
  It's really cool.
• 23:48
  But they're a similar company to yours.
• 23:49
  There's a synergy there because they too are reaching for what is the weirdest ingredient
• 23:53
  that I can possibly stick into this next product that's going to be weird.
• 23:56
  Sure.
• 23:57
  I remember when the, you know, the, you know, the methylene blue now, but the spermidine
• 24:01
  and the NAD plus and like all these other things get incorporated.
• 24:04
  Yeah.
• 24:05
  But I'm going to use the word countercultural because they're not what everyone else is
• 24:08
  doing.
• 24:09
  Sure.
• 24:10
  But you guys at your descriptions do much that same thing.
• 24:13
  Like you don't come, you don't have vitamin C.
• 24:15
  Yeah.
• 24:16
  We're never going to have a vitamin C.
• 24:17
  That's right.
• 24:18
  And that's not how we do it.
• 24:19
  We're always looking for novel ways to approach very common problems.
• 24:22
  Keep stress, anxiety, you know, eventually pain, focus, energy.
• 24:27
  We are and even, you know, even mood and things like that.
• 24:31
  So we're always like, well, I mean, so Dr. Ted, who we work with is a master formulator.
• 24:36
  So we always have to go to the ends of the earth to find the kinds of ingredients that
• 24:40
  he wants.
• 24:41
  But we're the first person, first company to have methylene blue in a commercial product.
• 24:45
  We're the first company to have another product, another, another ingredient called
• 24:48
  agron, which is from a psychedelic mushroom.
• 24:51
  It's from the aminita mushroom.
• 24:53
  Aminita muscaria is common in folklore for Christmas and else in Wonderland.
• 24:57
  And it does have a psychedelic experience.
• 24:59
  It's not like tripping balls like if you're on a mushroom, like a psilocybin, but it gives
• 25:03
  you sort of like a nice kind of typically pretty psychedelic, but not crazy.
• 25:08
  But there's two ingredients in the mushroom.
• 25:10
  One's called ibiotenic acid.
• 25:12
  And one is is is agron.
• 25:13
  Ibiotenic acid is neurotoxic and causes the experience where agron is along acting.
• 25:18
  Inhancer of the GABA system in the brain.
• 25:21
  And so we use that with the first company to do that.
• 25:23
  We're also the first company to use something called kovane, which is the most active in
• 25:27
  kava itself.
• 25:28
  Kava the plant has what we're called kava lactones, which are the active ingredients.
• 25:32
  And kovane is the most well studied active ingredient of the kava plant.
• 25:36
  So we're using that.
• 25:37
  And then we have another compound called corticepine, which is from the corticeps mushroom.
• 25:43
  And so corticeps mushroom is known for thousands of years as a healing mushroom.
• 25:47
  Corticepine is the most active component of the mushroom.
• 25:50
  And it's a fantastic anti-inflammatory, it increases deep sleep.
• 25:53
  It's an antioxidant.
• 25:54
  It also works as an antiviral.
• 25:55
  And it's being studied in cancer and allergies and asthma and inflammation, not in naffledy,
• 26:00
  which is not alcoholic fat, fatty liver disease, and even gut dyspiosis.
• 26:03
  So it's like a very cool compound.
• 26:05
  And so we're the first company to use corticepine and any strength other than being in the mushroom.
• 26:11
  So we're at much high potency, we're at 75 or 150 milligrams, you'd have to eat like
• 26:15
  100 grams of mushrooms to get that much because it's not a lot in the mushroom itself.
• 26:20
  Agren, not used ever on a sleep or stress product before.
• 26:23
  So we're the first company to do that.
• 26:25
  Kovane, first time in a stress product ever.
• 26:28
  And then of course, methylene blue.
• 26:29
  And then, you know, I can't forget nicotine.
• 26:31
  No, nicotine is one of the first, in our first product, no, blue canotine,
• 26:36
  methylene blue, nicotine, caffeine, and CBD.
• 26:39
  Methane blue is scaring everybody because it turned everybody blue.
• 26:42
  But even worse than that was nicotine, right?
• 26:44
  Because how dare you put nicotine in a product, you're going to make everybody addicted and kill everybody, right?
• 26:49
  But no, nicotine at low doses, not vapes, not smoked is a fantastic cognitive enhancer.
• 26:54
  Increasing memory, verbal fluency, recall, and attention.
• 27:00
  And it's great, especially if you keep it low dose.
• 27:02
  And again, you don't vapet or smoke it because vaping and smoking is everybody's only association.
• 27:07
  Right.
• 27:07
  It's kind of where I'm going with some of this is like, there's so many things in the marketplace.
• 27:11
  And again, we kind of live in the stories, you know, talking about nicotine is being an ingredient to the product.
• 27:16
  It's just like, oh, cool, what else?
• 27:17
  Like, like, you say that to the general public where you're actually trying to sell the product.
• 27:22
  And it's like, you've almost got to go through this defense story to be able to unpack why that's okay.
• 27:26
  Right.
• 27:27
  Because outside of the longevity, biohacking space, that's counterintuitive.
• 27:31
  It is like, we're telling everybody, don't vape, don't smoke, you know,
• 27:34
  oh, but here's a nicotine patch.
• 27:35
  Like, like, it just seems counterintuitive there.
• 27:39
  Yeah, we're saying the same thing with methylene blue, right?
• 27:41
  Oh, it's a dye.
• 27:41
  It's a, it's an industrial solvent.
• 27:43
  Yeah, run, right?
• 27:44
  Yeah.
• 27:45
  But you're saying the same thing with mushrooms, which most people would immediately associate with psilocybin.
• 27:51
  Sure.
• 27:51
  Yeah, we have the adaptogen world is kind of probably done a little bit of favor there.
• 27:54
  Because I think people are at the same adapting, but they're, they're getting the adaptogen side of mushrooms as being, you know,
• 28:02
  yeah, you're leaning into stuff that is very non-friendly from a consumer's standpoint.
• 28:09
  Lots of education required.
• 28:10
  A lot of education required.
• 28:11
  And then we all now have to trope D2, which makes things more challenging.
• 28:14
  But also awesome, because we have that delivery device.
• 28:16
  It's dosage form.
• 28:17
  It's called dissolval lozons.
• 28:19
  It goes in your mouth called a trokey, which is great because it bypasses metabolism and liver.
• 28:23
  So it's faster.
• 28:24
  The ingredients are more bioavailable because of that.
• 28:26
  And also you can titrate it.
• 28:27
  Take a quarter half or full, whatever you need and then you can figure out your dose over time.
• 28:31
  So, you know, we, it's kind of one of those things.
• 28:34
  As I look back at my life, Mark, I've never really done anything that's been, you know, straightforward.
• 28:39
  I grew up very, like a wacky son of a chiropractor who did things all things weird.
• 28:43
  I went to medical school.
• 28:44
  I guess that was relatively standard, but I was in a band through that.
• 28:47
  And I, and that's how I got myself through it.
• 28:49
  And then, you know, my whole career has like always been, like, I've never been in a band.
• 28:52
  I could ever play the same song twice.
• 28:53
  You know, I've never, like, I can never just be like that guy that went on stage and played the same song twice.
• 28:58
  So I've always liked the novel, like, you know, changing things up, being novel about things,
• 29:02
  you know, making tension going from a different angle and not just following like a straight and narrow.
• 29:07
  I've tried occasionally.
• 29:09
  It never works.
• 29:11
  One day tried a couple of times over the years to pin me down, but I didn't allow, you know,
• 29:15
  but the thing is is like, it's what I admire about the transcriptions as a brand specifically.
• 29:19
  But, yeah, obviously it's your genius behind it.
• 29:21
  That's just me.
• 29:22
  Your doctorate is over.
• 29:23
  Yeah, yeah.
• 29:23
  Oh, I mean, I know there's other people involved a bit.
• 29:25
  But the reality is, it's like, transcriptions is one of those brands.
• 29:29
  Like I said, like, it's like, you don't even produce anything unless it's weird.
• 29:31
  They don't produce regular things.
• 29:33
  Yes.
• 29:33
  And the thing is because why is so many of those, like, you can go, like, you can buy,
• 29:38
  you can buy 150 vitamin C companies or more.
• 29:40
  And I don't think I have any problem with vitamin C.
• 29:42
  I think it's great.
• 29:42
  But I think at the same time, what is what is the ecosystem we're trying to develop?
• 29:46
  Right?
• 29:46
  And in transcriptions, it's, it's this would call reciprocal out non-recipical altruism or this reciprocity model.
• 29:51
  It really is the idea, which is that we have the non-profit health organization medicine and practice.
• 29:56
  We're training practitioners on how to optimize self.
• 29:58
  We have a seven module certification for that.
• 29:59
  That's all online.
• 30:00
  All the faculty, boomer, Dr. Ted and I are the faculty at home, at home,
• 30:05
  hope as well as we run transcriptions and we donate our time to home,
• 30:09
  hope to actually run that.
• 30:10
  And we have actually, we have a conference every year.
• 30:12
  We do training and we do all of that.
• 30:14
  That's our base of everything.
• 30:16
  Right?
• 30:16
  And then we have our, you know, we have the for profit of the transcriptions company
• 30:20
  and then transcriptions help support the home, hope company as it needs to.
• 30:23
  So we have this balance, which is really, really important for us.
• 30:26
  And we have a mission that goes across both of the organizations that we're really trying to relieve suffering in others knowing that really is no other.
• 30:34
  Right?
• 30:34
  In the sense that like we're all kind of in this together.
• 30:36
  So if we can help people right now with transcriptions, that's what we want to do.
• 30:39
  Energy, focus, sleep, stress, anxiety, all that stuff.
• 30:42
  And then over the long term, we have the health optimization that has some framework that gets people a long term path to health optimization.
• 30:47
  Right.
• 30:47
  So it's going to take you six months, it can take you a year.
• 30:50
  Yeah, but we get all that we can do is enough lean blue.
• 30:52
  We'll give you some quarter step and what will downregulate your nervous system.
• 30:54
  So you won't be so sympathetic all the time.
• 30:56
  You'll be in fight or flight all the time.
• 30:58
  You'll be like, you're going to come down and then you're relaxing.
• 31:00
  We have to detox and we're in heel.
• 31:02
  But that's going to take time long term to deal with the trauma in your care, the relationship you need to get out of.
• 31:07
  But right now, let's give you something that's going to downregulate your nervous systems.
• 31:10
  You feel better, right?
• 31:11
  So that's the goal.
• 31:12
  And talking about optimization, the again, I love that.
• 31:16
  I love the humanity behind it.
• 31:17
  Actually, a friend of mine that does a podcast and does affiliate work for all of the podcasts.
• 31:21
  And I found out recently, which is kind of cool because he never makes a big.
• 31:25
  You probably know Chris Burris, weren't you just on his podcast?
• 31:28
  I don't know the name, but I don't know him.
• 31:29
  He runs my vital C. Okay.
• 31:31
  You do ESS 60 and stuff like that.
• 31:34
  Cool guy, just goofball.
• 31:35
  Yeah.
• 31:36
  But it's like I found out recently and I did not know this because he does all kinds of like everything's an affiliate thing on his podcast.
• 31:42
  And whatever.
• 31:42
  And he's just enjoys the conversation.
• 31:44
  But I found out later, he's like, well, it doesn't matter to me.
• 31:47
  Like whatever the affiliate deal is because I literally take all the affiliate money and it runs into nonprofit donations.
• 31:54
  He's like, I don't keep any of that.
• 31:55
  And I was like, that's not really cool.
• 31:56
  Yeah.
• 31:57
  That's super cool that you're literally just using that voice to amplify whatever's going on in the nonprofit.
• 32:01
  And that's cool.
• 32:02
  And for us, we do, we do similar stuff.
• 32:05
  And so much as like we keep a percentage as an agency, like we did all of the promotion and everything for this conference.
• 32:11
  Nice.
• 32:12
  That is charged.
• 32:13
  This is our pro bono.
• 32:14
  Let's get the word out there.
• 32:15
  Let's continue to promote this.
• 32:16
  We do the same thing with other conferences and different nonprofits as well.
• 32:19
  And it is.
• 32:20
  It's that idea that we're all in this together.
• 32:22
  Yeah.
• 32:23
  Everybody's here.
• 32:24
  How can we use our superpower to amplify the voices of people who are actually saying things like, I'm not nation winters.
• 32:30
  That woman is a powerhouse.
• 32:32
  She's got an incredible story.
• 32:34
  She's got such a great voice.
• 32:35
  I'm like, great.
• 32:36
  I don't have your voice.
• 32:37
  I don't have your experience.
• 32:39
  I can magnify you.
• 32:41
  My superpower is making you do bigger.
• 32:43
  Right.
• 32:44
  That's how you help.
• 32:45
  That's my contribution.
• 32:46
  I love that.
• 32:47
  How do I take voices that are in our space?
• 32:50
  How do I magnify them?
• 32:51
  How do I connect dots?
• 32:52
  I find myself all day long.
• 32:54
  Do you know so and so?
• 32:55
  And they're like, maybe in a minute.
• 32:56
  Here.
• 32:57
  Let me hear group text.
• 32:58
  Yeah.
• 32:59
  That's my own or group text.
• 33:00
  Right.
• 33:01
  It's connections.
• 33:02
  Yeah.
• 33:03
  But I love that.
• 33:04
  And I love that you guys are doing stuff that's unusual.
• 33:08
  Because there is a...
• 33:11
  I...
• 33:12
  How do I say this?
• 33:13
  And livingly, the true true descriptions has kind of a corner on the sexy supplement space.
• 33:17
  Okay.
• 33:18
  I used to have so much years to...
• 33:19
  I mean, I don't know if you knew I'm marketing back in the day.
• 33:21
  But like back when we first started, I was doing all of it.
• 33:24
  And it was all sexual all the time about being blue.
• 33:27
  And it was great.
• 33:28
  But then I got...
• 33:29
  I got demoted from marketing.
• 33:30
  You know, in every review.
• 33:31
  Where is?
• 33:32
  Yeah.
• 33:33
  Blueing yourself.
• 33:34
  I don't actually go blue yourself.
• 33:35
  Oh, yeah.
• 33:36
  That blue jobs.
• 33:37
  That you should run away.
• 33:38
  Free blue jobs.
• 33:39
  Free blue jobs.
• 33:40
  Amazing.
• 33:41
  Yeah.
• 33:42
  I can't talk about that anymore though.
• 33:43
  You have to erase that.
• 33:44
  I'm just going to...
• 33:45
  I see it.
• 33:46
  It's pretty fake.
• 33:47
  Keep that.
• 33:48
  Yeah.
• 33:49
  But the truth matters.
• 33:50
  I don't even mean that related to sex.
• 33:51
  Sure.
• 33:52
  Yeah.
• 33:53
  What I mean is like, it's got curb appeal, right?
• 33:54
  It's not the next vitamin C.
• 33:55
  It's not the...
• 33:56
  You know, it's not the...
• 33:57
  Oh, look.
• 33:58
  Here's a new sexy...
• 33:59
  Right.
• 34:00
  And we have a mission that's not just about selling products.
• 34:01
  And I think that's the big thing.
• 34:02
  I don't...
• 34:03
  I couldn't get into this just to hawk products all day long.
• 34:06
  I do it because we have a greater mission, which is health optimization, right?
• 34:10
  The idea is that these are things that can help you now along that path.
• 34:13
  And that, hopefully, over time, you don't need the supplements as often as much
• 34:16
  because you're more well optimized.
• 34:17
  And not many supplement companies want to talk about that.
• 34:19
  They want to keep you on something for the rest of your life.
• 34:22
  Yeah.
• 34:23
  So, yes.
• 34:24
  So I'm going to say this, which is terrible.
• 34:25
  And you can disagree or agree with that.
• 34:26
  Okay.
• 34:27
  We talk about the medical model is never get people well because then you get rid of a customer.
• 34:31
  Sure.
• 34:32
  Yeah.
• 34:33
  I'm going to be honest and tell you that sometimes I think the longevity space isn't
• 34:37
  much different.
• 34:38
  Yeah.
• 34:39
  I mean, definitely.
• 34:40
  We want to give you things that are expensive and that you have to pay for.
• 34:42
  And I know I run over again.
• 34:44
  All right.
• 34:45
  I'm the marketing guy.
• 34:46
  Like, by the time value, that's what we talk about.
• 34:47
  And I...
• 34:48
  Not only can I get you to buy the product, but how can I keep you on the product as long as possible?
• 34:50
  Be for sure.
• 34:51
  With the greatest ROI happens.
• 34:52
  Yeah.
• 34:53
  You've got the opposite model.
• 34:54
  It's...
• 34:55
  You're defying it.
• 34:56
  You're kind of like, sure, I'll sell you supplements, but hopefully you don't need them.
• 34:58
  Well, I hope you need them over time, right?
• 34:59
  Or you need them less.
• 35:00
  That's what I typically say.
• 35:01
  It's a very...
• 35:02
  It's an interesting place to be, you know, because I'm a clinician.
• 35:05
  I don't really know what I'm doing outside of that.
• 35:08
  And I've always said, I...
• 35:09
  Everything else I play on TV, right?
• 35:10
  I can...
• 35:11
  I'm a clinician.
• 35:12
  I see patients.
• 35:13
  I have...
• 35:14
  I don't tell medicine practice.
• 35:15
  I can tell you stories about using all the products with all my patients, because that's
• 35:17
  how I learn, how to use them a lot of times, or with myself or my family or whatever.
• 35:22
  But I think we always ground ourselves in clinical practice.
• 35:26
  That's the difference.
• 35:27
  Dr. Ted and I, we still work in clinical practice boomer.
• 35:30
  He's a health optimization practitioner, so you don't have to be a doctor to get trained
• 35:33
  through a non-profit.
• 35:34
  You can be a non-licensed practitioner as boomer is, and he does work with people.
• 35:38
  And we have tons of clinicians in and around our ecosystem that we leverage.
• 35:42
  And we're talking about new products and testing new products and things like that.
• 35:45
  You know, I want to take you training.
• 35:47
  Yeah, well, you have to train it.
• 35:48
  You take it.
• 35:49
  You know, it takes...
• 35:50
  Yeah.
• 35:51
  I was going to do hers too.
• 35:52
  I just like gathering certificates of something.
• 35:53
  That's...
• 35:54
  That's some people are like that.
• 35:55
  Yeah.
• 35:56
  And I love Nace's training too.
• 35:57
  I think Nace has got a fantastic training.
• 35:58
  Our focus is just a little bit different.
• 36:01
  But in the end, it's really about metabolic optimization as well.
• 36:03
  It's just a different angle.
• 36:04
  And I think that there's lots of different ways to do that, whatever you feel most comfortable
• 36:08
  doing.
• 36:09
  I love what she's built.
• 36:10
  You know, I've known Nace for many years.
• 36:11
  She and I actually spoke at a conference in, I want to say Toledo, Kansas in like 2017 or something
• 36:18
  like that.
• 36:19
  That's when I first met her.
• 36:20
  And she'd already been speaking and doing this for a while at that time.
• 36:22
  But I would...
• 36:23
  You know, it's like instantly like, this is the person you want to know for the rest of your life
• 36:27
  because Nace is just fantastic.
• 36:29
  And it's fun to watch all of this grow over the years and how much she's done with her training.
• 36:33
  And so I usually respect all the work that she's done.
• 36:36
  Yeah.
• 36:37
  She's done an incredible amount of work.
• 36:38
  And it's like I'm excited to see their next terrain health take shape.
• 36:42
  I love that.
• 36:43
  I've been working with Cindy on some stuff there too.
• 36:45
  Nice.
• 36:46
  It's been...
• 36:47
  Nice.
• 36:48
  Yeah.
• 36:49
  It's been great to watch that happen because it's the heart behind it.
• 36:50
  Yeah.
• 36:51
  Yeah.
• 36:52
  And that I enjoy watching.
• 36:54
  There are certain companies in the space that are just doing the right thing.
• 36:59
  And then a lot of people that aren't doing the wrong thing, they're just kind of doing their thing.
• 37:02
  And that's okay too.
• 37:03
  There is a very few supplement companies that I know out there that are really trying to be bad.
• 37:08
  There are some though.
• 37:09
  No doubt about it.
• 37:10
  I know in the Methylene Blue space, there's like 40 companies that have craft Methylene Blue
• 37:14
  that are selling on Amazon for pennies and hoping you pay for it.
• 37:17
  There's even one company that says it's produced in the USA.
• 37:20
  But I talked to you guys.
• 37:21
  He's like, yeah, I bought this Methylene Blue from a company that says it's made in the USA
• 37:24
  but it took three weeks to get through customs.
• 37:26
  Exactly, exactly.
• 37:27
  You might be able to understand.
• 37:28
  It's then shipped it to China, doesn't it?
• 37:30
  Sure.
• 37:31
  Whatever it is, whatever.
• 37:32
  But the problem is that it's a regulated market that's self-regulated, right?
• 37:37
  And so you don't have anybody telling you what to do.
• 37:39
  So you have to do the right thing or you have to trust the people that are using the organization
• 37:43
  that will do the right thing, right?
• 37:45
  And that's really important.
• 37:46
  And that's where I really kind of gravitate is to the companies that I can trust the people that are running it.
• 37:51
  And I know them well, you know, and they have a good track record.
• 37:54
  Well, and again, for me doing this, as well as you know, through my agency and the many others.
• 37:58
  Yeah.
• 37:59
  My context in the space and the people is like, my intention is like my suggestion to anybody that I know is
• 38:05
  here's a few people go followed them because there's, it is self-regulated, which means there are opposing voices
• 38:11
  from well-respected people.
• 38:13
  Like two different people can completely disagree.
• 38:15
  Like Dave Asprey and Steve Gundreher are going to give you very different advice on what you should be eating.
• 38:19
  Sure.
• 38:20
  Right? It just doesn't mean anybody's wrong.
• 38:22
  It means that we need to pick our avatar and then, you know, lean into that question everything.
• 38:28
  Sure.
• 38:29
  Yeah. Everybody's going to be different.
• 38:30
  That's the thing.
• 38:31
  Something that works for Asprey is not going to work for you all the time, just like correct.
• 38:34
  The Brian Johnson is the best example out there, right?
• 38:36
  You can't, nobody else can be vegan, but him as far as I'm concerned, because nobody's going to be able to take 130 or 140 supplements a day
• 38:42
  and figure out like all their macros, but they're all they're missing because all they could eat is like one freaking piece of steak, right?
• 38:46
  So, um, anyways, I'm with you in the sense of like, you know, you really want to find, you have to be careful what you listen to out there.
• 38:53
  You have to be careful who you listen to out there.
• 38:55
  And you also have to remember that the advice that you get on social media online, especially for somebody that doesn't practice,
• 39:01
  is oftentimes related to their own personal experience, which is fine, but that doesn't mean that it's going to work for you.
• 39:07
  So, here's an example.
• 39:08
  And this is where I believe that AI is, I mean, it's completely changing everything.
• 39:12
  We can agree to that.
• 39:13
  Well, we're, we're using it in a thousand different ways, but it's like, I'm always trying to tell people like, here's a way that you can do it.
• 39:19
  Like, if you are concerned about something like that, and I'll just, I'll just use the Asprey Gundry.
• 39:22
  Sure.
• 39:23
  And it's like, just literally just sit, watch their opinions disagree with each other because AI is able to take those thought leaders from different places.
• 39:45
  Sure.
• 39:46
  Bring them together and simulate what that looks like.
• 39:48
  And it actually, it helps us synthesize this disagreement out in the space, and I should come to our own conclusions.
• 39:54
  But my point in all of that is filter through who the people are that are doing it for the right reasons.
• 40:00
  Sure.
• 40:01
  As opposed to people that are just, you know, doing it because they've got a product to hawk.
• 40:04
  And sometimes it's hard for them to direct their consumer and really understand that.
• 40:08
  Agreed.
• 40:09
  And I think the hard thing about AI is that it's become a little bit less psychophantic than it used to, but it's pretty freaking psychophantic.
• 40:14
  So it's going to basically give you what you want to hear on some level, unless you're very specific on that you don't want it to do that.
• 40:20
  Like, make sure it's objective.
• 40:21
  So you'd be very careful with your prompting when you're doing that kind of thing.
• 40:23
  Yeah.
• 40:24
  And I think that's, that's important because I've seen people go into these rabbit holes of just doom when looking at various things like,
• 40:30
  where did you even, how did you even get there, man?
• 40:32
  Well, because you know, like if with AI is just like, that's not always the case, but I think you can give you good information.
• 40:36
  You need to be super careful though on how you're prompting it and how you're actually leading it in the direction.
• 40:40
  Well, right.
• 40:41
  And AI is really, really susceptible to leading the witness hugely.
• 40:45
  Yeah.
• 40:46
  It drives me crazy.
• 40:47
  Because it'll follow whatever you're telling it.
• 40:48
  And then the goal is making sure that you're prompting objectively.
• 40:51
  Right.
• 40:52
  Yeah.
• 40:53
  Unless there's a subjective bias that you're intending.
• 40:55
  Of course.
• 40:56
  But yeah, if I'm saying, tell me what nature winters would do in this situation.
• 40:59
  Sure.
• 41:00
  Sure.
• 41:01
  I'm intentionally bias in that direction for that reason.
• 41:03
  Yeah.
• 41:04
  I think the super cool company doing some super cool things.
• 41:06
  I love that the mission behind it, I know we use the words non-profit and for-profit,
• 41:11
  which sounds, you know, ultra-capitalistic when we start breaking it down that way.
• 41:14
  But the truth matter is that both of them are mission-driven.
• 41:17
  Totally.
• 41:18
  Yeah.
• 41:19
  And I like that phrasing better than non-profit and for-profit.
• 41:22
  Yeah.
• 41:23
  I just like, the reason I do that is that because we do have a non-profit that we donate our time to that we run specifically.
• 41:29
  And then the other company helps support that.
• 41:32
  But they're both mission-driven for sure.
• 41:34
  Yeah.
• 41:35
  Both mission-driven, most actually working towards helping people optimize.
• 41:37
  Yeah.
• 41:38
  I love that.
• 41:39
  What would you want to tell a listener about tropescriptions or about the non-profit for that matter?
• 41:44
  And I always do this with what's the takeaway that a person would get from listening?
• 41:49
  Like if there was a sound bite that you would put out there, what would it be?
• 41:52
  So I think it would be, I've already kind of mentioned it in various ways throughout this conversation.
• 41:56
  But I think the main thing is that we're all on this sort of mission to live as long as we can as healthy as we can.
• 42:01
  And that's not just longevity.
• 42:03
  That's also what's called health span.
• 42:05
  So living as many healthy years as we can.
• 42:07
  And we need to be on that road.
• 42:09
  It's hard to be on that road because it's hard for humans to think that far in the future.
• 42:13
  But the good news is that the conversation has been shifting.
• 42:15
  So now we're talking more about longevity.
• 42:17
  But really the conversation is more about health span than longevity.
• 42:20
  It's a combination of those two things.
• 42:22
  What I would say is this, look, find a way to get yourself on a path like that.
• 42:28
  Whatever path that might be for you, it's going to be different.
• 42:30
  It might be through, you know, nation's work might be through our non-profit.
• 42:33
  It doesn't really matter.
• 42:34
  Like it's just on that path.
• 42:35
  But on that path, while you're there, you're going to need help along the way.
• 42:39
  And along the way, various people, places, things, events, all those things are going to be important.
• 42:44
  But that's where choice preferences really came in for me as a clinical, especially if somebody is working in clinical medicine.
• 42:50
  It's like you need things to help people right now while they're on the long way, along the way.
• 42:53
  So health optimization medicine practice is your long term sustainable health optimization ecosystem.
• 42:59
  It helps you keep you healthy.
• 43:00
  It optimizes biomarkers to when you were 21 and 30 years of age.
• 43:03
  It reverses the conversation from longevity to health span and all that.
• 43:09
  And then transcriptions is in there to help people help you right now while you're on the longer path.
• 43:13
  So help with energy, help with the focus, sleep, stress, you name it so that you can continue that path.
• 43:18
  And deal with those roadblocks as they're going to come because we're all going to get them, you know.
• 43:22
  And so that's the deal.
• 43:23
  I hear this all the time and it makes me kind of chuckle because people are like,
• 43:27
  all longevity either the people who just think you want to live forever.
• 43:30
  I don't want to live forever if I'm a vegetable in a wheelchair.
• 43:32
  I'm like, nobody does.
• 43:33
  Right.
• 43:34
  That's not the goal of longevity.
• 43:35
  The goal of longevity is now, I always say it's not the number of years.
• 43:38
  It's the quality of the years.
• 43:39
  Yes, that's the health span piece.
• 43:40
  It's the health span.
• 43:41
  I want to live a great life, a long one, hopefully.
• 43:45
  Yeah.
• 43:46
  But for as many years as I'm given, I want to live those as optimized as possible.
• 43:50
  And I think that should be everyone's goal.
• 43:53
  And I think there tends to be this, the counter rather than the quality.
• 43:58
  And I think it's an, it's an end.
• 44:01
  Yes.
• 44:02
  Yeah.
• 44:03
  I'm 100% agree with you.
• 44:04
  Right.
• 44:05
  I want to end the quality.
• 44:06
  That's where things are going.
• 44:07
  But longevity, the word, I think, is the wrong word to be honest.
• 44:09
  I think, you know, health, health span is probably better.
• 44:13
  You know, some sort of combination of health span and longevity that nobody's come up with.
• 44:16
  Well, it's how longevity engine, the words all the time, because we went from biohacking
• 44:20
  and then, you know, all this other kind of stuff and health optimization has started to take over.
• 44:23
  And sure, sure.
• 44:24
  Now longevity becomes the buzz word nowadays.
• 44:27
  It's fine.
• 44:28
  Let it be.
• 44:29
  It's better than, you know, going to your doctor and getting pills for things without trying to do anything about it.
• 44:33
  So I think that there's, the ecosystem has changed a lot.
• 44:37
  And I think that we were seeing that, which is great.
• 44:39
  And I think it'll continue to go in that direction.
• 44:41
  And then, unfortunately, things will get commoditized as much as they always do with everything.
• 44:45
  But they'll always be some sort of happy medium where people can find it.
• 44:48
  And I think that's the key is to find a path that you feel comfortable beyond it, to beyond knowing that we're trying to be here as long as we can for as healthy.
• 44:54
  And I think so much of it for the average person is it's a matter of that optimization.
• 45:00
  Yes.
• 45:01
  It's a personal responsibility.
• 45:02
  You can create the product.
• 45:03
  You can create the protocols.
• 45:04
  You can do the trains.
• 45:05
  But until people are actually willing to just say, look, my health is my responsibility.
• 45:09
  And whatever I do with it, I'm the only one that pays the price if it goes wrong.
• 45:12
  Like, that, I think, is the pivotal piece.
• 45:15
  And the rest of us get to play Gandalf on that journey.
• 45:17
  Sure.
• 45:18
  Where, you know, but Frodo's got to decide to take the journey.
• 45:20
  Totally.
• 45:21
  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's always how it is, right?
• 45:23
  You can't, you need a horse to water, right?
• 45:24
  That's what they always said.
• 45:25
  And I think that everybody's going to have their own inflection points.
• 45:29
  And you hope they're not going to be the ones where it's something almost tear-lapped
• 45:33
  or something did tear-lapped.
• 45:34
  And then they have to kind of rebound from it.
• 45:36
  But that's what human condition is.
• 45:37
  We think we're invincible until we're not.
• 45:39
  And that's difficult to take out of our evolutionary programming.
• 45:45
  But that's how it is.
• 45:46
  Like, we're not evolved to think more than a couple days, months in advance.
• 45:51
  Maybe I was doing that is not easy.
• 45:53
  And so it's still a challenge for a lot of people.
• 45:55
  And challenge even for me sometimes.
• 45:56
  Like, you know, I'm like, oh, I'll just go to 10 conferences and speak for whoever many.
• 45:59
  I can forget about all the health stuff.
• 46:01
  For help exactly.
• 46:02
  And then I'm going to eat like garbage the entire time.
• 46:04
  And then regret all my decisions by the time I get home.
• 46:07
  Yes.
• 46:08
  Hormetic stress.
• 46:09
  Yeah, it's amazing, right?
• 46:10
  Which, yeah, just not too much.
• 46:11
  Hormetic stress all at the same time.
• 46:12
  Yeah.
• 46:13
  No, I think all of it's fantastic.
• 46:14
  Scott, thank you so much for joining us here today.
• 46:16
  Yeah, yeah.
• 46:17
  I love talking about this stuff.
• 46:18
  I love that my blue tongue.
• 46:19
  Thank you for tuning in.
• 46:20
  We've got Dr. Scott Scheer, who's actually one of the founding members and partners.
• 46:25
  Chief of Appropriations.
• 46:26
  Sir, yeah.
• 46:27
  C-O-O.
• 46:28
  Trove descriptions as well as name the other.
• 46:30
  You've used a couple of names here.
• 46:31
  Yeah.
• 46:32
  So the nonprofit is called Health Optimization Medicine and Practice or Home Hope for
• 46:35
  short.
• 46:36
  Home and in practice.
• 46:37
  Home Hope.
• 46:38
  Health Optimization Medicine and Practice.
• 46:40
  Okay.
• 46:41
  And it's Home Hope for short.
• 46:42
  Yeah.
• 46:43
  Okay.
• 46:44
  Gotcha.
• 46:45
  That was what I was trying to get the acronym there.
• 46:46
  I'm like, I'm trying to spell this out in my head.
• 46:47
  So Health Optimization, Medical and Practice.
• 46:49
  Home Hope as well as Trove descriptions.
• 46:50
  We'll have links for everything down in the bio.
• 46:52
  But I hope to probably got from this that Scott's one of the smartest people that you're
• 46:56
  going to meet on these topics.
• 46:57
  And like I said, one of the things I like about Trove descriptions as a brand is it's
• 47:01
  innovative.
• 47:02
  It's novel.
• 47:03
  It's things that you're not.
• 47:04
  There's not a lot of competition for you out there because you're coming up with things
• 47:07
  that are not easily available in other spaces.
• 47:09
  Yeah.
• 47:10
  They're making big impacts into people's lives on those journeys towards Health Optimization,
• 47:15
  obviously.
• 47:16
  Yeah.
• 47:17
  Come hang out with us on our ecosystem.
• 47:18
  We have a lot of fun.
• 47:19
  We have a lot of education.
• 47:20
  Trove descriptions has tons of blogs, information, webinars, interviews.
• 47:22
  You can find me.
• 47:23
  And I've all over the place on our website and you're getting down and dirty on the
• 47:27
  products.
• 47:28
  And we're always here to help.
• 47:29
  Yeah.
• 47:30
  And his social media is actually quite entertaining to watch.
• 47:31
  So I encourage you to go follow social media, all of the links to all of that stuff will
• 47:36
  be located below.
• 47:37
  Scott, again, thank you so much for joining us here today.
• 47:39
  I really appreciate it.
• 47:40
  Good to see you in here, buddy.
• 47:41
  Are you speaking tomorrow?
• 47:42
  A lot of panel tomorrow, yeah.
• 47:43
  Oh, awesome.
• 47:44
  Yeah.
• 47:45
  Well, I'll see you tomorrow too, then.
• 47:46
  Cheers to those of you that are watching.
• 47:47
  Thanks so much.
• 47:48
  We appreciate it.
• 47:49
  We'll see you next time on performance journey.
• 47:50
  Let me.