Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'SOMEBODY’S LYING!' says Carole Baskin’s 'missing' hubby's lawyer!

Transcript

'SOMEBODY’S LYING!' says Carole Baskin’s 'missing' hubby's lawyer! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: our partner. A lot of theories circulating about where Don
1:28
Speaker 1: Lewis is today. He's now usually tagged as Carol Baskin's
1:33
Speaker 1: dad husband Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Joining me right
1:46
Speaker 1: now is a very special guest. This is Jack don
1:50
Speaker 1: Lewis's lawyer, Joseph Fritz. Mister Fritz, thank you for being
1:55
Speaker 1: with us. Yes, ma'am, mister Fritz, what do you make
1:59
Speaker 1: of all the theories about what happened to your client,
2:03
Speaker 1: Jack don Lewis. He's presumed dead according to our court system.
2:07
Speaker 1: In my view, there's no question but that he was murdered.
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Speaker 1: So you, like me, are convinced he's dead. He's not
2:14
Speaker 1: just missing, he's dead. As we say the South DRT
2:18
Speaker 1: dead right there. That's exactly what they say, dead right there. Okay,
2:24
Speaker 1: mister Fritz, I've got so many questions for you, I
2:27
Speaker 1: hardly know where to start, but I'm going to start
2:30
Speaker 1: with your last response, and that was he was murdered.
2:34
Speaker 1: I agree with you. He didn't just drop dead of
2:37
Speaker 1: a stroke. He was murdered. Why do you say that? Well,
2:43
Speaker 1: first of all, he loved these cats. He really loved
2:46
Speaker 1: those cats. I was there with him, I was there
2:48
Speaker 1: with my son, the predecessor wildlife on Easy Street. He
2:55
Speaker 1: loved those cats. He never would have just walked away
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Speaker 1: from him. Ever, he wouldn't have done it. He was
3:01
Speaker 1: proud of those cats. He loved those cats. Some force
3:05
Speaker 1: made him leave. I would never leave my children, Okay,
3:10
Speaker 1: I get it, But what about his family. I don't
3:13
Speaker 1: think he would just walk out and not tell his
3:16
Speaker 1: children he was leaving and never have contact with them
3:20
Speaker 1: again from that day forward. I agree he wouldn't. Why
3:25
Speaker 1: else do you believe he was murder mister Fritz circumstantial evidence?
3:30
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have lied about what
3:33
Speaker 1: went on. What was going on at the time. I've
3:36
Speaker 1: heard a lot of people remarks about Costa Rica and
3:40
Speaker 1: things of that nature. I don't know who is a
3:45
Speaker 1: murderer and who is not a murderer, but I know
3:47
Speaker 1: who's a liar, and I can definitively state that that
3:51
Speaker 1: somebody's lying about it. So I don't like the words
3:56
Speaker 1: of the power of attorney of disappearance. I don't like
4:00
Speaker 1: the facts and circumstances. I don't like the prior petition
4:06
Speaker 1: for the bestic violence injunction. I don't like a lot
4:11
Speaker 1: of things that were going on at the time. Do
4:14
Speaker 1: I know who murdered him? No, I don't. Well, you
4:16
Speaker 1: said that someone you know that someone is lying. Who
4:21
Speaker 1: is lying well, I read Carol Baskin's response to the
4:27
Speaker 1: Tiger King, and some of the things she said in
4:30
Speaker 1: there I personally know to be false, such as what
4:35
Speaker 1: my involvement, Don Lewis, for instance, Well, what does she
4:39
Speaker 1: say your involvement was, and what was your involvement? Well,
4:45
Speaker 1: at that time in my life and in my career,
4:49
Speaker 1: I was doing a kind of peculiar kind of law.
4:52
Speaker 1: I was doing animal law with the USDA that regulated
4:57
Speaker 1: showing to animals and fish and game, our fishing game
5:00
Speaker 1: at the time, which licensed animals, and our local animal
5:04
Speaker 1: control which basically did the local inspections of animal facilities.
5:10
Speaker 1: And I think we got connected because he needed help
5:14
Speaker 1: with some of his animal issues that were going on.
5:18
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I represented, oddly enough, a
5:22
Speaker 1: major bank that had just moved to Florida, represented their
5:26
Speaker 1: secured and there was mortgages, notes, there's foreclosures, there was leases,
5:30
Speaker 1: there was all sorts of things going on, and that
5:33
Speaker 1: was another thing that Don was involved with, is making
5:36
Speaker 1: money off investments and things of that nature. So we
5:39
Speaker 1: pretty much were a pretty close fit into the what
5:42
Speaker 1: he needed and what I was capable of doing. And
5:45
Speaker 1: after that I got invited to his home and saw
5:50
Speaker 1: the cats at his home, and then wildlife on Easy
5:52
Speaker 1: Streets started at forty acres by them all, and I've
5:55
Speaker 1: been there a few times. I actually went in the
5:59
Speaker 1: leopard cage, well, a land tamer's cage with peril leopards. There.
6:05
Speaker 1: My son and I went in. M parenthetically tell you
6:09
Speaker 1: that I've been bit twice by leopards. But anyway, we
6:13
Speaker 1: became friends, and I guess I would see him. His
6:17
Speaker 1: office was east of town and my home at the
6:20
Speaker 1: time was further east, so on the way home many
6:23
Speaker 1: times I would stop at their office and chat with him.
6:28
Speaker 1: The ultimate relationship with friends, pal's buddies and a attorney client,
6:33
Speaker 1: you know, mister Fritz. The more I've looked at and
6:36
Speaker 1: listened to Don Lewis, he seems like such a likable guy,
6:41
Speaker 1: like he could just sit down in his office, put
6:43
Speaker 1: your feet up on his desk, and just talk. That's
6:46
Speaker 1: how he comes across. But I happened to know he
6:50
Speaker 1: was quite the womanizer. I've heard that, yes, do you
6:53
Speaker 1: know you're going to take those secrets to your grave?
6:58
Speaker 1: I do not know it to be true. I have
6:59
Speaker 1: no receiate it. I never questioned him about it. He'd
7:01
Speaker 1: never admitted he'd every Saturday they got it, but I
7:03
Speaker 1: certainly heard as a solid diet of that. Yes. So
7:09
Speaker 1: what Carol Baskin has today her animal sanctuary is really
7:18
Speaker 1: what your client, Jack don Lewis built long before she
7:23
Speaker 1: came into the picture. Is that correct? Yes? And let
7:27
Speaker 1: me correct something for you and for the world. That
7:31
Speaker 1: is not a rescue and that is not a sanctuary.
7:33
Speaker 1: That's a private zoo. Sanctuaries and rescue places you take
7:38
Speaker 1: the animals to them to spend the rest of their
7:41
Speaker 1: life there. They bought animals. If you look at Tiger King,
7:45
Speaker 1: you saw the first load of animals he bought was
7:47
Speaker 1: for ninety four thousand dollars. You don't buy animals to
7:51
Speaker 1: populate a sanctuary or a rescue. That, in my view
7:56
Speaker 1: as a fraud. It's a private zoo at zoo, and
8:01
Speaker 1: it today is a private zoo, absolutely with a catchy name.
8:06
Speaker 1: So what do you make of Carol Baskin claiming that
8:08
Speaker 1: it is a sanctuary fraud? But why? What's in it
8:14
Speaker 1: for her? What would be in it for her? I
8:17
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know the particulars of it, but
8:19
Speaker 1: I truly suspect thousands upon thousands upon thousands of donations
8:24
Speaker 1: and volunteers doing all the work over there, thinking that's
8:28
Speaker 1: some sort of a rescue. It's not a rescue at all.
8:32
Speaker 1: I don't know what money they make out of it.
8:34
Speaker 1: I don't know what money they don't make out of it,
8:35
Speaker 1: but I have heard of the of a significant number
8:39
Speaker 1: of people make muffly contributions to that through the charitable
8:44
Speaker 1: portals and stuff. Mister Fritz, I want to go back
8:47
Speaker 1: to what you were saying, that you know someone is
8:51
Speaker 1: lying and it's all mixed up, and what happened to
8:53
Speaker 1: your client, Don Lewis. You said that there are lies
8:57
Speaker 1: about your alleged involvement, and your real involvement was that
9:02
Speaker 1: you were his lawyer and his friend. What else has
9:07
Speaker 1: been lied about? What other lies are you talking about
9:12
Speaker 1: the relationship between Don and I? The how Donna and
9:16
Speaker 1: I first hooked up. She made some comment about a
9:19
Speaker 1: mortgage which just absolutely was not true, is off the wall.
9:23
Speaker 1: But why lie about it? I don't know. You'd have
9:28
Speaker 1: to ask her. Tell me about the marriage if you
9:31
Speaker 1: know about it. I understand that there was a restraining
9:34
Speaker 1: order filed, not granted, but filed by your client against
9:39
Speaker 1: Carol Basking. What happened I've read. I've read. The meat
9:44
Speaker 1: of the complaint basically says he wanted an injunction because
9:48
Speaker 1: she quote unquote threatened to kill him. But there's no corroboration. No,
9:54
Speaker 1: I wish it'd be retrous, but I wish you would
9:56
Speaker 1: have come to me before he filed it. We might
9:59
Speaker 1: have been able to do quite should an answer and
10:00
Speaker 1: flesh it out more and make some other allegations that
10:05
Speaker 1: that could be made. I don't know, but his just
10:08
Speaker 1: was a naked complaint that said she threatened to kill me,
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Speaker 1: and frankly, I have several things to say. In my view,
10:15
Speaker 1: I don't think that's sufficient to grant an injunction it
10:18
Speaker 1: Number two, We as a society generally don't restrain free speech.
10:26
Speaker 1: But there's no overt a hold on mister. Free speech
10:31
Speaker 1: that amounts to a terroristic threat or some other sort
10:34
Speaker 1: of crime such as bribery, a threat that is not
10:40
Speaker 1: protected by free speech. When you threaten to kill someone,
10:45
Speaker 1: your defense is not freedom of speech under the Bill
10:49
Speaker 1: of Rights. Oh No, I don't think any judge in
10:52
Speaker 1: America would grant that injunction to be honest with you,
10:55
Speaker 1: if there'd been any overt act at all, like waving
10:58
Speaker 1: a gun or take swinging a baseball bat or anything,
11:03
Speaker 1: or somebody else who heard it, or somebody else or
11:05
Speaker 1: multiple times, we could have would have gone forward. I
11:10
Speaker 1: have no doubt, but just to make it validation something
11:14
Speaker 1: about his guns being taken. Well, first of all, my
11:18
Speaker 1: recollection wasn't wasn't even supposed to have a gun in
11:20
Speaker 1: the first place. I had understood that somewhere in his
11:24
Speaker 1: past he had a conviction that that prohibited that. I
11:28
Speaker 1: don't know whether that's what you're referring to or something else.
11:31
Speaker 1: I know I had to chase down one of his
11:32
Speaker 1: guns that he had under under a mattress at a
11:35
Speaker 1: motel room in Cincinnati. A few other things. My understanding
11:42
Speaker 1: was when he first met Carol there was a pistol involved. Um,
11:46
Speaker 1: I don't know where the pistol is. I don't know
11:47
Speaker 1: who disarmed him or took it away from it. I
11:50
Speaker 1: have no clue climb stories with me. It'sy grace, yster friends.
12:06
Speaker 1: Let's get right down to it. What do you believe
12:10
Speaker 1: happened to Jack Don Lewis and why do you believe that?
12:16
Speaker 1: Years of years and years ago. I heard off the street.
12:21
Speaker 1: And you've been around long enough to know if you
12:22
Speaker 1: hear something off the street once, maybe it's true, maybe
12:24
Speaker 1: it's not. If you start hearing the solid diet of it,
12:27
Speaker 1: there's something to it. But what I had heard was
12:31
Speaker 1: that he was strangled from the backseat of an airplane
12:37
Speaker 1: over the Gulf at fifty feet and dropped out over
12:39
Speaker 1: the Gulf. The other day with the sheriff interviewed me
12:43
Speaker 1: twenty four years late. Parenthetically, I told them that and
12:48
Speaker 1: they said they told me that they had heard the
12:50
Speaker 1: same story. So the street is starting to tell the
12:54
Speaker 1: same story to different people. So there's probably something to it.
12:58
Speaker 1: And that's scenario. Who would be behind your client, Don Lewis,
13:06
Speaker 1: who would be steering the airplane, and who would have
13:10
Speaker 1: the physical acumen to throw him out of the airplane? Well,
13:17
Speaker 1: there must have been three people in the plane, the
13:20
Speaker 1: owner of the plane or whoever was selling the plane,
13:22
Speaker 1: which is what I've heard that he was up there.
13:26
Speaker 1: He had bought and sold airplanes in the past. He
13:29
Speaker 1: had a pilot's license in the past, although I understand
13:31
Speaker 1: it was suspended or revoked for the FAA, which is
13:35
Speaker 1: why Don liked to fly at fifty feet, stay under radar.
13:38
Speaker 1: He didn't have his squawk on, he wouldn't give you
13:40
Speaker 1: his tail number, or did any of the other things
13:42
Speaker 1: that routinely pilots do. But my understanding was is that
13:47
Speaker 1: somebody the owner of the plane, flew with him or
13:49
Speaker 1: on a test flight of this plane, and somebody was
13:53
Speaker 1: in the back seat. I have no idea who the
13:54
Speaker 1: plane was. I have no idea who the pilot was.
13:56
Speaker 1: I have no idea who was in the back seat.
13:59
Speaker 1: Although that scenario is basically what our sheriff's corporal that
14:05
Speaker 1: that interviewed me from homicide, he'd heard the same thing.
14:10
Speaker 1: Who his informant is I don't know, And mister Chris,
14:14
Speaker 1: let's just follow that through to its logical conclusion. If
14:18
Speaker 1: that were true, and I know the sheriff chronister believes
14:21
Speaker 1: that more than one person is involved in Don Lewis's death.
14:25
Speaker 1: But in that scenario, you would have to believe that
14:29
Speaker 1: the owner of the plane was party to a murder
14:33
Speaker 1: or that he was killed himself. That is a little
14:37
Speaker 1: bit of a stress. I think an impartial owner of
14:40
Speaker 1: a plane takes prospective buyers up in the plane. Then
14:44
Speaker 1: a murder goes down and they never say a word,
14:47
Speaker 1: much less help in the murder. That's tough pilled a swallow,
14:51
Speaker 1: don't you think. Nope, that's that's my working theory. That's
14:56
Speaker 1: that's what I think happened. But whobody has a better fact? Huh?
15:02
Speaker 1: Who would go along with an impartial owner of a
15:06
Speaker 1: plane witnesses or takes part witnesses and murder and then
15:11
Speaker 1: never says a word? That's correct? You know. The point
15:15
Speaker 1: of the matter was whoever is in the front seat,
15:17
Speaker 1: whoever's in the back seat or co conspirators in a
15:20
Speaker 1: plot for hire to you know, I'll be a plot
15:22
Speaker 1: to murder for hire. Okay, that's what happened. Okay, Now
15:27
Speaker 1: i'd say where you're going that the owner of the
15:29
Speaker 1: plane would benefit get money for his or her part
15:34
Speaker 1: in the murder. I get it, Take us up. I'm
15:36
Speaker 1: going to do this and I'll pay you. Now, do
15:40
Speaker 1: you have a theory as to who would have This
15:43
Speaker 1: is just a working theory. And let me point out
15:46
Speaker 1: Carol Baskin has not been named as a suspect in
15:49
Speaker 1: luth an official suspect in Lewis's disappearance or death. Who
15:54
Speaker 1: would have done that in your working theory. Frankly, I
16:00
Speaker 1: don't know. I suspect people, I suspect things, but I
16:05
Speaker 1: have no evidence none. You know, A lot of attention
16:09
Speaker 1: has been directed at Carol Baskin because she obviously benefited
16:14
Speaker 1: from that will and the very unusual clause in the
16:20
Speaker 1: event of my death kidnapped her disappearance. I believe it
16:22
Speaker 1: went all my entire wealth goes to Carol Baskin. She
16:28
Speaker 1: obviously would benefit immensely from his death or disappearance. I've
16:35
Speaker 1: never seen a clause like that before. I've written quite
16:38
Speaker 1: a few wills and have certainly studied in a law school.
16:41
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a clause like that in a
16:43
Speaker 1: will before. We've talked about that at my law office.
16:47
Speaker 1: There's three lawyers in my law office. Among the three
16:49
Speaker 1: of us, we have a hundred years of experience. This year,
16:53
Speaker 1: all of us have looked at it, all of us
16:54
Speaker 1: have talked about it. We haven't seen it in a
16:56
Speaker 1: hundred years, and you've been in for another forty, so
16:59
Speaker 1: we're pushing one hundred fifty years of experience. It's never
17:01
Speaker 1: seen it um never. That takes you so almost back
17:04
Speaker 1: to the fountain of the country. But now hold on,
17:07
Speaker 1: you're as lawyer. Didn't you see the will? Did you
17:11
Speaker 1: ever say? Why is that in there? Now? I never
17:14
Speaker 1: saw it. I never saw it while he was alive. No,
17:16
Speaker 1: just like I never saw the a lot. So do
17:21
Speaker 1: you believe the will was created after he went missing?
17:24
Speaker 1: When was that will first produced? I couldn't tell you.
17:28
Speaker 1: You'd have to ask the sheriff. I started hearing about
17:31
Speaker 1: it later, but I don't know when it first came out.
17:34
Speaker 1: Did you have a previous copy of his will or
17:37
Speaker 1: any copy of a will? No, it wasn't my job.
17:42
Speaker 1: I was good for them before. No, tiger by the tail.
17:50
Speaker 1: We'll leave it at that. Um. Okay. So you've got
17:53
Speaker 1: extreme well five to seven million dollars that we know of,
17:57
Speaker 1: plus a highly, highly and an orthodox clause in a will.
18:02
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it, us as if he
18:06
Speaker 1: was predicting his death or disappearance or kidnapped. And it
18:10
Speaker 1: also suggests that the bulk of his estate would pass
18:14
Speaker 1: to Carrol Baskin if he simply disappeared before he was
18:18
Speaker 1: legally declared dead. It says, clearly, in the event of
18:21
Speaker 1: my disappearance or death, you get the money. So bottom line,
18:27
Speaker 1: the will suggests that she didn't have to wait till
18:30
Speaker 1: he was officially dead. She could get the money prompto
18:33
Speaker 1: the minute he disappeared. Is that the way you read
18:36
Speaker 1: the will, mister Fritz? Yeah, it is. Remember under front law,
18:41
Speaker 1: you can't completely disinherit a wife. Anyway. I think they
18:43
Speaker 1: get a patrick I forget the word. They get thirty
18:49
Speaker 1: percent adow's pension. They get a widow's share better what
18:55
Speaker 1: we call if you don't give the way thirty percent
18:58
Speaker 1: they could neglect to take against the will is what happens.
19:01
Speaker 1: So how much money were we talking about, mister Fritz?
19:05
Speaker 1: Did he have that you know of? And there's stories
19:08
Speaker 1: about him burying money, burying gold. I don't know what's
19:12
Speaker 1: true and what's not. But is he the kind of
19:14
Speaker 1: guy that would have hidden money? All right, you have
19:20
Speaker 1: several questions. You're on the table. First, He probably he
19:22
Speaker 1: had between five and ten million dollars. I've heard stories
19:25
Speaker 1: about buried buckets of gold. As he'd go through the day,
19:28
Speaker 1: he'd buy gold, you know, a broken chain for this
19:31
Speaker 1: person or what have you. And I've heard that there
19:35
Speaker 1: was a bucket of gold that's never been found. He
19:37
Speaker 1: is the type that would bury bunny. He had significant resources. Well,
19:44
Speaker 1: it's not that unheard of, mister Fritz. My great grandmother,
19:49
Speaker 1: who only went to fifth grade, buried money on her
19:54
Speaker 1: farm until she paid for that farm she was renting,
19:58
Speaker 1: and the farmhouse and house with out of jars that
20:02
Speaker 1: she had buried on the farm. So it's not that
20:06
Speaker 1: unheard of. So you would have buried gold, you asked.
20:12
Speaker 1: I told you he'd buried. He'd buried gold, he'd buried Buddy,
20:15
Speaker 1: bury everything. Mister Fritz. I've got one of your working
20:18
Speaker 1: theories about how Lewis went missing. What can you tell
20:23
Speaker 1: me about his place, his home, his estate, his butler,
20:29
Speaker 1: and his mistress in Costa Rica? Did they see him
20:33
Speaker 1: after he disappeared? I didn't hear you the last part
20:35
Speaker 1: of that. Did the people down in Costa Rica see
20:39
Speaker 1: him after he disappeared in the States, I don't think
20:43
Speaker 1: so I can tell you what the Costa Rica thing
20:45
Speaker 1: was here. If you engage in exotic animals, you have
20:50
Speaker 1: a ton of regulatory issues. You have to be permitted
20:55
Speaker 1: by the fishing game, you have to be regulated by USDA.
20:59
Speaker 1: If you display those animals, you're regulated under our local
21:04
Speaker 1: animal control regulations. All sorts of things go on. My
21:09
Speaker 1: understanding is in Costa Rica there's a vibrant trade of
21:13
Speaker 1: these animals and virtually no regulation, so obviously he went
21:22
Speaker 1: over there. It was picking up animals and buying animals.
21:26
Speaker 1: Just last week I saw a picture of beholding my
21:29
Speaker 1: favorite cat, an Asselot, which is kind of an almost
21:32
Speaker 1: endangered South American cat, that I knew came from Costa
21:38
Speaker 1: Rica because he told me it did. So many things
21:43
Speaker 1: that Don did were just on the custom not in
21:45
Speaker 1: the white area, not in the block area, somewhere in
21:47
Speaker 1: the gray area, for instance, flying to pain without a
21:51
Speaker 1: pilot's license, for instance, buying and selling regulated and licensed animals,
22:00
Speaker 1: lying fifty feet above the gulf, so you stay alfradar.
22:04
Speaker 1: Many of the things he did were in the gray area.
22:06
Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons, if not the main reason,
22:09
Speaker 1: for the Costa Rica connection. Did he hide gold down
22:14
Speaker 1: there or silver or I have no idea. Did he
22:17
Speaker 1: have a did you have a concubine down there? I
22:20
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I never went down there
22:23
Speaker 1: with him. Clime stories with Nancy Grace. Let me ask
22:38
Speaker 1: you a question regarding the day he disappeared at that time.
22:44
Speaker 1: Do you believe he was getting ready to file for
22:47
Speaker 1: divorce from Carol Baskin? Do I believe he was? Yes,
22:50
Speaker 1: I've heard stories it was it was getting bad enough
22:52
Speaker 1: to had he consulted with me over it? No, he
22:54
Speaker 1: had not. The stories you've heard, what were they and
22:57
Speaker 1: are they from reliable sources? Someone you believe you made
23:01
Speaker 1: about the state of the marriage. Yes, I've heard people
23:08
Speaker 1: that were kind of close to Don make comments about it.
23:11
Speaker 1: Don never told me anything directly. I did overhear some
23:15
Speaker 1: of the cell phone calls between he and his wife
23:18
Speaker 1: that were not They were heated, but not threatening, arguing
23:27
Speaker 1: about I don't remember. That's a quarter century ago. M M.
23:34
Speaker 1: Was that common that they argued like that? I couldn't
23:37
Speaker 1: tell you a common or not comment, But of a
23:39
Speaker 1: few phone calls that I heard the two of them make,
23:41
Speaker 1: you know there was some animosity there. Yeah. How did
23:44
Speaker 1: she manage to wiggle up in his life? How did
23:46
Speaker 1: they meet? Wasn't he married with children? I've heard. I
23:52
Speaker 1: don't know how they met, but I've heard that some
23:57
Speaker 1: are probably ten minutes north of town Tampa on Nebraska Avenue,
24:02
Speaker 1: which at the time was not a very nice street.
24:05
Speaker 1: That's to street my offices on. However, they were probably
24:07
Speaker 1: twenty blocks north of my office. What I've heard was
24:12
Speaker 1: that she had a fight with her then husband and
24:14
Speaker 1: walked out, was trying to cool off or get her
24:16
Speaker 1: fresh air, and Don pulled up and basically they started
24:22
Speaker 1: talking and she got in his van. Ultimately, that's how
24:26
Speaker 1: I understand they met. I don't know, however, So according
24:30
Speaker 1: to the lord, he just picked her up off the street.
24:32
Speaker 1: He picked her up out of Nebraska Avenue, which did
24:35
Speaker 1: not have a good reputation at the time. M Well, okay,
24:39
Speaker 1: all right, were you the marriage? I'm sorry, sure that
24:45
Speaker 1: part of Nebraska was known for hookers? What was she want?
24:49
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Question to you, were you working
24:53
Speaker 1: with Don Lewis at the time he got married? Yes?
24:57
Speaker 1: Wait minute, they may have just been living together. I
24:58
Speaker 1: don't know. I know, I know one of the times
25:01
Speaker 1: I went to his house. You asked me how the
25:04
Speaker 1: house was. The house was a regular house, but it
25:06
Speaker 1: smelled of cats, if you know what I'm saying. She
25:11
Speaker 1: was there and I said cats, but yarin will do
25:14
Speaker 1: so she was already there in the home. Where was
25:16
Speaker 1: the wife? I don't know, ma'am. I was just there,
25:19
Speaker 1: just playing with the cats leaving up to the day
25:24
Speaker 1: he went missing. What do you know that happened? I mean,
25:27
Speaker 1: we all know that his eighty nine vehicle was parked
25:32
Speaker 1: at a private airport and it had his briefcase, a suitcase,
25:37
Speaker 1: keys in it and it was unlocked. What else do
25:41
Speaker 1: you know about the days leading up to his disappearance?
25:45
Speaker 1: Very little. It was a shock of a sadness to me.
25:49
Speaker 1: Of course, my suspicion turned on you know who, just
25:54
Speaker 1: like the sheriff, just like every other burder case that
25:56
Speaker 1: you've looked at the spouse first. So can I prove it?
25:59
Speaker 1: Disprove it? No? I can? You know? The one thing
26:03
Speaker 1: you kind of understand Don Lewis would he was terribly cheap.
26:11
Speaker 1: While he was very wealthy, he was cheap beyond belief.
26:16
Speaker 1: He also had a little goats and he'd go to,
26:20
Speaker 1: for instance, that same van I wrote in, and we
26:24
Speaker 1: picked up day old thrown away bread and stuff like
26:29
Speaker 1: tasty cake and beard bread, and you know, and they
26:33
Speaker 1: paid I don't know, fifteen cents a tray, you know,
26:37
Speaker 1: to feed the goats, and there'd be some cheese crackers
26:40
Speaker 1: in there. He'd pull them out and put them up
26:42
Speaker 1: front in the van for them to eat when they
26:44
Speaker 1: were went to Michigan to buy livestock. I saw him
26:48
Speaker 1: another time when he had a T shirt on and
26:49
Speaker 1: I said, don I didn't know yet do something about that.
26:52
Speaker 1: He said, oh, don't pay attention to the shirt. He
26:54
Speaker 1: to I just bought it at a yard sale for
26:55
Speaker 1: fifty cents, so it's horribly cheap. And every time that
27:01
Speaker 1: he got a deal to get a deal, he would
27:03
Speaker 1: take the deal period. So you know all of that.
27:08
Speaker 1: I don't know what he's doing there, but what would
27:10
Speaker 1: have lured him more than anything else is a good
27:12
Speaker 1: deal on an airplane. So that's what I assume happened,
27:15
Speaker 1: that he got lured up the Pilot Country estates to
27:19
Speaker 1: look at an airplane, a good deal on a plane.
27:21
Speaker 1: So what do you make of the claim he was
27:23
Speaker 1: leaving for Costa Rica. I don't know that he left
27:26
Speaker 1: for Costa Rica that day. So you believe that he
27:30
Speaker 1: was going to Pilot Country Airport to look at a
27:34
Speaker 1: plane for sale? Yes, ma'am. He'd owned several in his life,
27:39
Speaker 1: and I you know, if I told him I have
27:41
Speaker 1: a I have a five hundred dollars ring that you
27:42
Speaker 1: can buy here for a hundred bucks. He'd be on
27:44
Speaker 1: the road coming with a hundred bucks. You know, there's
27:46
Speaker 1: a little interesting theory, mister Fritz, because I mean working
27:50
Speaker 1: under the theory that I was given that he was
27:53
Speaker 1: planning a trip to Costa Rica and he had gone
27:56
Speaker 1: to that private airport. There was no manifest, nobody could
28:00
Speaker 1: identify him coming through the airport, there was no flight plan,
28:04
Speaker 1: nothing like that. So he never flew out on a trip.
28:08
Speaker 1: But your theory that he was going to look for
28:11
Speaker 1: a plane to buy wouldn't make more sense because you
28:15
Speaker 1: don't have to show your ID, you don't have to
28:17
Speaker 1: go through the office and log in that you're leaving.
28:22
Speaker 1: You just show up and you go look at the plane. Understand,
28:28
Speaker 1: if Don were flying, he wouldn't want anybody to know
28:30
Speaker 1: who he was flying because it was illegal. Let me
28:33
Speaker 1: ask you, award your opinion on the theories that your client,
28:39
Speaker 1: Jack don Lewis was fed through a meat grinder there
28:44
Speaker 1: on his at his private zoo as you call it,
28:47
Speaker 1: or that he was buried under a septic tank there
28:50
Speaker 1: at the zoo. What do you make of those theories?
28:52
Speaker 1: They're blarney. I agree, I've seen that that meat grinder,
28:58
Speaker 1: the output on it is no bigger than a coffee cup,
29:01
Speaker 1: A little bit bigger than a coffee cup. I don't
29:03
Speaker 1: think anything that could have happened. If it was, it
29:06
Speaker 1: would have been DNA. They would have been here, they
29:07
Speaker 1: would have been all sorts of stuff all over. Even
29:10
Speaker 1: our sheriff couldn't do that crumby investigation. They would have
29:13
Speaker 1: found that under the septic tank. I don't. I don't
29:16
Speaker 1: have a clue, but I don't think so. I heard
29:20
Speaker 1: Carol make fun of it on TV. The septic tank
29:25
Speaker 1: was years after predated whatever question regarding the sheriff, not
29:35
Speaker 1: necessarily the sheriff, but the investigation at the time. Do
29:40
Speaker 1: you think an adequate investigation was done into his disappearance?
29:44
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I think why I think Walmart security would
29:50
Speaker 1: do a better investigation of a kid shoplifted a CD
29:53
Speaker 1: than the sheriff did in this murder case. To think
29:58
Speaker 1: that they gave the car back with no forensics, To
30:02
Speaker 1: think that they didn't check radars, uh, to investigate everybody
30:08
Speaker 1: up at Pilot Country Estates, UH. They didn't do a
30:13
Speaker 1: thing that I could see. Why why I have no clue.
30:19
Speaker 1: I have a theory but um no, I'm not going there. Yeah,
30:26
Speaker 1: I understand. I will tell you, I will I will
30:30
Speaker 1: comment this now. I want to make a comment. You know,
30:33
Speaker 1: our sheriff's department here is so politically entwined that our
30:39
Speaker 1: sheriff's department creates its own weather. So I don't know why,
30:45
Speaker 1: what what they're doing, I don't know. Let me give
30:48
Speaker 1: you the example. I've obviously pretty close to the situation,
30:51
Speaker 1: pretty close to don and do a few things. Um
30:55
Speaker 1: and I know some things that have never been They've
30:57
Speaker 1: never been brought out before. Why the world would it
31:01
Speaker 1: take them twenty four years to interview me, mister Fritz
31:05
Speaker 1: when you say you know things that have never been
31:07
Speaker 1: brought out before, such as what one point two million
31:13
Speaker 1: dollar life policy and the disposition of it? Who was
31:18
Speaker 1: the beneficiary? I'm not going to name a name, but
31:23
Speaker 1: there was a beneficiary. Let me let me just put it.
31:29
Speaker 1: Was it paid out, Let me finished, Let me finish.
31:32
Speaker 1: Not for five years until he was declared dead by
31:34
Speaker 1: a court. It was paid out. The idea was that
31:38
Speaker 1: they were going to form a trust. The trust was
31:41
Speaker 1: going to be the owner and the beneficiary of the policy.
31:43
Speaker 1: He disappeared before that could be done. But he had
31:46
Speaker 1: with somebody and I'm not naming them because there's still
31:51
Speaker 1: a friend client palad buddy of mine, the current client
31:54
Speaker 1: for that matter. He had left instructions who got what
31:59
Speaker 1: when he died. That person was a beneficiary and the
32:02
Speaker 1: owner of the policy. And as you know, being a lawyer,
32:05
Speaker 1: he could have walked down the street with a million
32:08
Speaker 1: two plus the five years of interest, and nobody could
32:11
Speaker 1: have done a damn thing. I want you to know
32:13
Speaker 1: that five years later that person wrote the takes just
32:16
Speaker 1: the way they'd been told five years prior. That's honesty.
32:20
Speaker 1: If I practice another forty years, I will never see
32:23
Speaker 1: that again. Do you agree? Yes, that's the most honest
32:29
Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen anybody do. Why do I say what?
32:35
Speaker 1: That's the most honest thing I've ever seen anybody do? What?
32:39
Speaker 1: Could they have done? Exactly what they did? Don had
32:45
Speaker 1: written on a piece of paper, who got what? Which? Daughter? Which? This? Which?
32:50
Speaker 1: That which? Everybody? That's exactly they The body was divvied
32:54
Speaker 1: up five years later the one point two million life
32:58
Speaker 1: insurance policy. Yeah, but it was more than that, because
33:01
Speaker 1: I think the insurance company had to pay five years
33:03
Speaker 1: interest until he was declared dead. Yeah, when you say that,
33:09
Speaker 1: you know things that have never been brought out other
33:12
Speaker 1: than the one point to mill insurance policy. What else
33:16
Speaker 1: has never been brought out? I'd have to think that
33:20
Speaker 1: one through. But that's the one that's that's that's just
33:22
Speaker 1: glaring because it shows you who in this scenario is
33:28
Speaker 1: telling the truth and who isn't. Can you be specific?
33:31
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? I thought that was
33:35
Speaker 1: pretty spe specific. If somebody is not. Everybody has a
33:40
Speaker 1: JD like you do. A lot of people don't understand
33:44
Speaker 1: what you're talking about that have not gone to law
33:46
Speaker 1: school and gotten a law degree. What is your question
33:53
Speaker 1: you're telling me? I think that Lewis, your client wrote
33:58
Speaker 1: out on a piece of paper or how he wanted
34:01
Speaker 1: the one point two million divided up, and that the
34:06
Speaker 1: policy owner or whoever was in charge of that, did
34:10
Speaker 1: it exactly. It was written down on that piece of paper. Correct.
34:16
Speaker 1: They were the beneficiary, They stated the beneficiary and the
34:19
Speaker 1: owner of the policy, obviously, and I was told that
34:23
Speaker 1: they were too far. But trust and the trust was
34:26
Speaker 1: going to be the owner and the beneficiary and the
34:28
Speaker 1: divvy it up under the terms of the trust. He
34:31
Speaker 1: disappeared before that trust could be done or before it
34:34
Speaker 1: was done, and that person when the insurance company paid,
34:38
Speaker 1: and they could have walked down the street, as you know,
34:41
Speaker 1: with a million two plus interest, said see, I'm sorry,
34:44
Speaker 1: I'm the beneficiary, that's my money. They didn't. They sat
34:47
Speaker 1: down to the wrote checks for exactly how he wrote.
34:49
Speaker 1: What had it done five years prior that? To me
34:53
Speaker 1: is honesty. If you're honest with the million two, you're
34:56
Speaker 1: going to be honest with your questions and answers. Climb
35:11
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Mister Fritz, what do you make
35:16
Speaker 1: of Carol Baskin's brother being on the Sheriff's force at
35:23
Speaker 1: the time the Carol Baskin husband disappears. I've questioned that
35:30
Speaker 1: a lot. I have no real answer. Um. I know
35:34
Speaker 1: there's I know there's a You could paint a pretty
35:38
Speaker 1: bad situation out of that if you tried, But I
35:41
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't have any I've never met the band.
35:43
Speaker 1: I've never looked in these eyes. I never had an opportunity.
35:46
Speaker 1: Whether I thought, quote unquote the fix was on or not,
35:50
Speaker 1: I have no clue. But it sure raises one's eyebrows.
35:54
Speaker 1: It may raise an eyebrow. I agree with you, but
35:56
Speaker 1: in itself doesn't prove anything. But I find it really
36:00
Speaker 1: hard to believe that at three a m. In the morning,
36:05
Speaker 1: Carol Baskin was out alone in her vehicle to get
36:09
Speaker 1: tiger milk at three am. That's very specialized. They don't
36:14
Speaker 1: drink milk out of the grocery store like we do.
36:18
Speaker 1: They drink something very specialized. Where do you get that
36:21
Speaker 1: at three am? And your car breakdown and your brother
36:26
Speaker 1: on the Sheriff's department comes and fixes the car. That's
36:29
Speaker 1: that's a little bit of a tall tale. It sounds
36:32
Speaker 1: like you can't make stuff like that up. That's unreal.
36:39
Speaker 1: Do you believe it? No? I do? I believe she
36:44
Speaker 1: was out. Yes, I believe the car broke down. Yes,
36:46
Speaker 1: I believe her brother said Summer did something to her
36:50
Speaker 1: helping her. Yes. Do I believe Tiger's milk? No? So
36:56
Speaker 1: what in the hay is she doing out at three
36:58
Speaker 1: am in the morning alone in the car. It's not
37:01
Speaker 1: a crime, but the timing of it is the issue.
37:06
Speaker 1: What do you say to that. I have no reason
37:14
Speaker 1: to think of why she would even be out at
37:17
Speaker 1: three in the morning, or what she was doing, or
37:21
Speaker 1: where she was going, or what was going on. I
37:24
Speaker 1: don't have a clue. What did you think when you
37:29
Speaker 1: first heard that your client, Don Lewis had vanished well
37:37
Speaker 1: for a week or ten days. I would have hoped
37:40
Speaker 1: that he might have shown up, that he had gone
37:42
Speaker 1: to Michigan to buy more livestock, or or Costa Rica
37:45
Speaker 1: bought some more livestock. But it started becoming pretty clear
37:48
Speaker 1: pretty quick that he wasn't coming back. After you learned
37:53
Speaker 1: that he had gone missing, did you speak to Carol Baskin? Never?
38:00
Speaker 1: Did she ever contact you about his business? No? My
38:07
Speaker 1: only contact was with his office manager. Yes, And what
38:16
Speaker 1: was her information? What did she think happened? You have
38:20
Speaker 1: to ask her when you contact to her? What was
38:24
Speaker 1: it about? Various things, some business happenings that were going on,
38:33
Speaker 1: some of the cats, some of this, some of that
38:35
Speaker 1: she told me that was going on regarding the office
38:40
Speaker 1: and the season of paperwork and things of that nature
38:44
Speaker 1: that I heard about all that. Well, what was going on?
38:47
Speaker 1: Who was seizing documents in the office? I asked her.
38:51
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know firsthand I've heard, but
38:57
Speaker 1: and would be the make of the claims that you're
39:00
Speaker 1: I ha had Alzheimer's or dementia. At near the time
39:03
Speaker 1: of his disappearance. He was absolutely sound of mind. He was,
39:10
Speaker 1: as they say, oriented times three. He knew the time, date, place,
39:13
Speaker 1: what he was doing, things of that nature. Did he
39:16
Speaker 1: seem a little off? Yes? Was he a competent? No.
39:21
Speaker 1: I had always put together that one of or two
39:27
Speaker 1: he had had a couple of airplane crashes, and I thought,
39:31
Speaker 1: I just put together in my mind that something that
39:36
Speaker 1: he must have had set some head trauma during one
39:39
Speaker 1: of those things that caused him to be a little off.
39:43
Speaker 1: But did he have Alzheimer's held up? He was as
39:46
Speaker 1: sharp as attack. Now, why do you say he hid
39:50
Speaker 1: his head in a crash? Do you know that to
39:52
Speaker 1: beachue or did you just think that? I never He'd
39:57
Speaker 1: never told me about a crash, but I've heard about
40:02
Speaker 1: I think he was too crashes he had. That's why
40:04
Speaker 1: he had his license revoked or suspended by the FAA.
40:08
Speaker 1: I am told I've not seen it when I spoke
40:12
Speaker 1: to our when I was interviewed by our sheriff, the
40:14
Speaker 1: sheriff WS he had those documents. So again I believe
40:18
Speaker 1: that indeed he had been at crashes and that he
40:20
Speaker 1: did have his license revoked by the FAA. I just
40:23
Speaker 1: put it together in my own head that he probably
40:25
Speaker 1: hid his head during one of those crashes. A matter
40:28
Speaker 1: of fact, I fly quite a bit by private, and
40:30
Speaker 1: I'm not even I don't even know somebody that survived
40:33
Speaker 1: one much less too. What do you make of, then,
40:35
Speaker 1: of the climes. Why would anyone say he had dementia
40:38
Speaker 1: or Alzheimer's. Why would anybody even claim that if it
40:42
Speaker 1: weren't true. You know the answer to that, I guess
40:48
Speaker 1: I do. You know there's a theory out there that
40:52
Speaker 1: Don Lewis was loaning money to organize crime. What do
40:58
Speaker 1: you make of that? That's bull? I agree, you know,
41:05
Speaker 1: organized crime loans money. They don't borrow money. I'm cured
41:09
Speaker 1: of juice and vigorous and all the other stuff that
41:11
Speaker 1: they do, and usually beat beat people up to get
41:15
Speaker 1: their loans back. They loan money, they don't borrow money,
41:20
Speaker 1: mister Fritz. And all the time that Don Lewis has
41:25
Speaker 1: been missing, has there ever been, to your knowledge, a
41:29
Speaker 1: siding of him, any contact from him, anything that would
41:34
Speaker 1: suggest to you that he was alive. No, ma'am. Was
41:39
Speaker 1: there a memorial for him? I'm sorry? Was there a
41:44
Speaker 1: funeral or a memorial for him. There was no funeral
41:49
Speaker 1: because there's nobody bemorial. I don't know if there was.
41:54
Speaker 1: I wasn't invited or notified. Did you did you have
41:59
Speaker 1: any disagreements with Carol Baskin? No? Have you spoken to
42:06
Speaker 1: his family? Don Lewis's family? What about it? Do I
42:11
Speaker 1: know him? Right? Have you spoken of them since his disappearance?
42:16
Speaker 1: They're spoken of them. No, They've not reached out to me.
42:20
Speaker 1: I've left them alone. I still deal with the office
42:22
Speaker 1: manager to this day. Right right, I'm just wondering how
42:29
Speaker 1: his family took his sudden disappearance and if they believe
42:34
Speaker 1: he took off or that he was killed. They obviously
42:36
Speaker 1: think he was killed. One last question for you. You
42:41
Speaker 1: said that you wish he had come to you regarding
42:46
Speaker 1: that protective order. Why do you say that? Well, many
42:52
Speaker 1: times somebody would just throw out a few words and
42:55
Speaker 1: expected judge to go with it. A respectable attorney would question,
43:02
Speaker 1: many things had happened within say six months? Was there
43:06
Speaker 1: any other episodes? Was there any witnesses? Was there any
43:09
Speaker 1: other things that happened? Can we flesh this out? Is
43:13
Speaker 1: this a recurring pattern or a one time thing? What
43:17
Speaker 1: were the real threats? Was a gun ever seen waived?
43:21
Speaker 1: You know, none of that was there nothing. It may be,
43:25
Speaker 1: it may not be that I would have if could
43:27
Speaker 1: have sat with him and questioned him and filled out
43:31
Speaker 1: more to give the judge more to go on, but
43:36
Speaker 1: just to flat say that, I don't think any judge
43:40
Speaker 1: of America would enter an injunction based on that. And
43:43
Speaker 1: I will also say, let me say a sexual matter too.
43:48
Speaker 1: Back twenty five years ago, it was almost laughed at
43:52
Speaker 1: that a woman would hurt a man, but if a
43:53
Speaker 1: man threatened a woman, you'd get an immediate injunction. So
43:58
Speaker 1: to the extent that's sexual, I make it a sec remark, okay,
44:01
Speaker 1: But twenty five years ago that was the way it
44:03
Speaker 1: was not so today. You know, I find it really interesting.
44:07
Speaker 1: And all the time you knew Don Lewis he had
44:10
Speaker 1: never filed a restraining order before, you say that he
44:16
Speaker 1: was of sound mind. And I believe you said lucid
44:21
Speaker 1: times three. Something must have made him go and try
44:25
Speaker 1: to get that protective order. He had never done it before,
44:28
Speaker 1: but he did it then, sure did As I say,
44:33
Speaker 1: I wish you would have come to me, you know,
44:36
Speaker 1: we might have maybe we wouldn't. Maybe we wouldn't, but
44:38
Speaker 1: maybe we would have been able to flesh it out
44:40
Speaker 1: and put some more allegations there, some corroboration. So that
44:47
Speaker 1: wasn't just grabbing a phrase out of mid air and
44:49
Speaker 1: said that's enough, and it's not. It's not. It is
44:52
Speaker 1: if it's believed, completely believed. How do you make somebody,
44:54
Speaker 1: how didn't make a judge believe that corroboration, witnesses, other incidents,
45:01
Speaker 1: things of that nature. But to just just blow the
45:04
Speaker 1: words out on a piece of paper somebody threatened to
45:06
Speaker 1: kill me, that's not enough, mister Fris. Do you think
45:09
Speaker 1: we're ever going to find out what happened to Don Lewis? Well,
45:14
Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons I'm sitting here. I want
45:17
Speaker 1: to keep the ball up in the air as long
45:19
Speaker 1: as we can. Somebody is one day there's more than
45:23
Speaker 1: one person involved in this. Chad Crodister says the same
45:26
Speaker 1: thing that the corporal of homicide that I spoke to
45:29
Speaker 1: says the same thing. One day one of these people
45:32
Speaker 1: is going to stub their toe and want to get
45:34
Speaker 1: out of jail free card, and that's when something's going
45:37
Speaker 1: to happen. Do you think a reward would help. Yeah,
45:41
Speaker 1: a reward of not serving a life sentence. What do
45:44
Speaker 1: you think about Anne McQueen story or what she witnessed?
45:49
Speaker 1: And McQueen is one hundred percent reliable, a decent individual.
45:55
Speaker 1: Are you going to interview her? Bottom line? You yes, ma'am?
46:00
Speaker 1: Are you yes? I'm going to yes. Ask her about
46:05
Speaker 1: that policy, the life insurance policy. Ask Ker, So you
46:10
Speaker 1: think the only way this case is ever going to
46:12
Speaker 1: be cracked is if someone if it comes to push
46:15
Speaker 1: and shove and somebody's looking at a life sentence, huh,
46:19
Speaker 1: some kind of sentence, they're gonna want a deal. They
46:23
Speaker 1: always do. Yep, mister Fritz. What's your message to whoever
46:28
Speaker 1: killed Don Lewis? One day? Sleep well one day, mister Fritz,
46:38
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us,