Latest / The Touch of a Mustang / How Horses Helped Him Become a Better Man with Luke Reinbold | Episode 55

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How Horses Helped Him Become a Better Man with Luke Reinbold | Episode 55 · The Touch of a Mustang

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The courses are not programmable, you don't download
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a code into them and then it just comes out that way.
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It is a literal journey of who am I and how am I communicating
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and how am I being understood? How is this lesson being taken?
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I always say this in communication.
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There's two ways to do it. One's very effective and 1 is
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what society is doing right? First way is to listen, to
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respond, and I think a lot of people train horses that way.
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It's like you're doing this, so I'm going to do this.
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Oh yeah. And it's a common way to talk
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about it. Absolutely.
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And one of the things, the most common questions I get, you
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could break it down into this, this concept of what do I do if
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right, if this happens, what do I do?
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OK, and if this happens, what do I do?
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I'm like, but it's not a code. That's not how it works.
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One big drawback of that is if you're always trying to go back
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to your database on what to do if right, the answers to it,
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you're always is going to be caught behind because it's
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searching. In other words, it's sort of
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buffering, right? It's like the information isn't
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going to come up that fast. Ed can become the leader that
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those horses really need, and if I can become the source of peace
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to those horses, then really there's going to be more than
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one way to get to that same spot.
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There are healers on this planet with the power to soften the
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suffering of mankind if they have remained in the recesses of
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the world, abused, discarded and labeled as trash.
1:25
This is the touch of a Mustang. I am your host, Shalise Clough,
1:30
and I'm here to tell the story of wild horses, Mustangs and the
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humans who are discovering and sharing their gifts while
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working to protect their well-being and preserve their
1:40
spirit so this divine power won't be lost.
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Join us on this quest with The Wild.
1:46
Mustang. Thank you so much for joining
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the podcast today, Luke, we're glad to have you here.
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To start with, would you like to give kind of a quick
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introduction to people who might not know who you are and what
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you do? Sure.
2:03
Well, thanks for the invite. We're excited about talking
2:06
horses here. So I am Luke Reinbold.
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I currently live in the western part of New York State, which is
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not commonly thought of as as horse country and things.
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And really it isn't. But it's where I had grown up,
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and that's where we're at for at least right now, right?
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Yeah. Enjoy riding the hills and
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things. And it's an area that a lot of
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people don't necessarily think of when they hear of New York
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State as most people think about the other end, which is the city
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and all that. But, you know, you can see no
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neighbors from my house and 360° and it's very hilly.
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Our county borders Pennsylvania, and we're right in the the
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western end of the Finger Lakes. So at any rate, yeah, we horses
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and everything about it. And that's why we're here.
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Yeah, great. Sounds beautiful.
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I know upper state New York and around the different areas
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outside the city, there's some really pretty countries.
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So it's cool to hear people with horses in different areas.
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So tell us a little bit about how you got into horses and then
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moved into this is something that you do full time, how that
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all came about? Sure.
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So originally I started it probably, I don't know, about 8
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years old. My grandpa was always like to
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drive horses and you know, growing up that's what
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everything was horse drawn on the farm and everything that he
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did. And when I have an older brother
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and he's pretty close in age to me and we would always be going
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to grandpa's house and messing around with his team of horses,
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which they were like large ponies, small horse size.
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And there's a Marion and gelding.
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My grandpa really was was getting older.
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So he ended up he gave them to us.
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And since my brother was older and at the time larger than me,
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he took Pat. We called him fat Pat.
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You can imagine why, but he was quiet horse.
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I got Firestar, who is also aptly named Mayor.
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Long story short, my brother and I just toured around all of the
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the the the Backcountry doing things that I'd like to think if
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my mother knew we were doing, probably would have been
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stopped. But at any rate, we are all
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kinds of fun adventures. And then you Fast forward a
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couple years, that same horse colic and, and unfortunately had
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to be put down and, and that devastated me to the point where
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I didn't ride a horse from that time of about age 10 until I was
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21 years old. Just did, you know, went into
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the sports and, and other things.
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But you know, there's just kind of nagged on me and I, and I
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knew I missed it and kept getting nagged by that same
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brother to get back. Just try it and, and finally, so
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he would stop. I, I did and realized I, I just
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really missed it. Dug into it, right.
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I saved up a whole bunch of money and bought this green
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broke paint horse and started making some mistakes.
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I ended up breaking a couple bones, including my back.
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But because I didn't, I had no idea, you know, as the saying
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goes, I didn't know what I didn't know, but I was.
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But I was learning, right? And I was learning as much as
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anything what not to do and moving forward with that.
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All I knew is horses were, were showing me things.
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They were showing me things about what I who I was and what
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I needed to be and what I needed to change.
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And, you know, I'd always describe myself at that part of
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my life as an impatient young man and with anger problems and
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horses were showing me that. And which is probably why in a
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lot of ways that I had started running into some injuries and
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things because I just didn't take the time that it actually
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took for those horses to learn the things that they needed, you
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know, and, and myself at the same time.
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So I went to pouring everything I could, all the spare time I
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had into horses and trying to learn this, this, that, the
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things right, the insurance and outs, the nuances of
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horsemanship. And at the same time time then I
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was, I was just observing. I was watching horses interact.
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I was watching what they did, desperately trying to figure out
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what made horses tick. What were they about?
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You know, who are they? And so I, I took this job in the
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summertime of, because it was the, the closest thing that I
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could find near me with horses. And it was a kids camp that gave
6:13
trail rides. There was the aspect.
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So there's it was a Wrangler position as it as it's called.
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And we take out a lot of city kids and a lot of folks that
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kids that didn't ride horses at all.
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And you know, it's rather boring riding the whole nose to tail
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kind of kind of thing. But but it was, but it was
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horses, right. So I would work all day and in
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the paid position. But then even after after hours,
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I was still riding other horses just because, you know, I
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couldn't get enough of it. And Long story short, there as
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well, that's where I met a young lady who was a lifeguard and she
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became my wife a year later. And through that I met her, her
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father-in-law obviously, and he became my biggest life mentor in
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business. And he had some knowledge with
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horses. But you know, that was my
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passion. But he was through some very
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wise decisions and counsel. I guess you could say he made
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the dream that I had because, you know, I, I couldn't hardly
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rub 2 nickels together really at that point in my life.
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And after all this whole process is going on and working at the
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camp and, and things, the camp was downsizing and in effect was
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eliminating my job and my wife and I were going to move, we
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were going to go West because to me that meant more horses,
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right? There's a lot more opportunities
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for that. But our first child was on the
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way and my in laws really supported us and everything, but
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didn't necessarily love the idea of that distance.
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So right. And so he, he came up with the,
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the idea, he said, hey, how would you like to go into
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business together? And again, I knew I couldn't, I
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could provide ambition and work and I and do that.
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I don't see all that stuff. And not for nothing, nobody
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could outdo his energy. But I could work and I did that.
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But this meant the whole financial part of this was going
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to be up to him, right? Because I just didn't have it.
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So anyhow, he agreed, I agreed and we purchased 80 acres of
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land and where we currently are and it was nothing but overgrown
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farm fields and brush and you know, weeds, but the shell of
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the house. So we purchased that and went to
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building a house, trying to build a barn building fence,
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clearing land. I mean we were working 16-18
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hours a day to to do all this, but I at the same time had to
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pay bills. So I began a career in law
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enforcement at that time and the plan originally was to be in
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that for two years and that we're going to go into horses
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full time at while life happens and that we were building, we're
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getting. I was training horses, you know,
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as much as I could between building everything and but I
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was learning a lot about people and that and, and specifically I
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worked in corrections and was learning about the tough to deal
9:21
with people, you know, and really let the horses are the
9:24
easy part, but but humans, not so much.
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But through that, we had started competing in obstacle
9:32
competitions and some different anything that I could find with
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horses. And he encouraged me to, you
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know, to keep following those dreams in the in the keep doing
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what we are looking to do. So at the time I, I found this
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clinic, while it was like they called it a ride and learn and
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it was where they would invite local people to do little
9:53
demonstrations and whatever. And I begged the promoters for
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an hour of time so that I could talk about specifically
10:01
obstacles and how I prepare horses for obstacles.
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And I can't imagine how much of A bumbling idiot I sounded like
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probable at the time, but they agreed.
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And that very first clinic, I showed up there and my saddle at
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the time had a broken tree and I knew it.
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But that's what I could afford, right?
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And we get through the clinic, which I have nothing to basis
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on. I don't know if it went well.
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I don't know if it went poor, right, or anything.
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But I'm going through this. The company that put it on the
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largest tech store, one of the largest in the country, it's
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Stagecoach West. So I ride for them now,
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ironically, and I'm walking through looking at all these
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saddles or Circle Y, there's rains men, right?
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All these saddles that are awesome, but you know, I can't
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afford that. And this guy comes up to me and
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he says, hey, I watched her clinic.
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I'm like, oh, oh man, what's he? Here it comes.
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Well, here it comes says you ever heard of circle Y saddles,
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right. And I'm going of course, they
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look awesome, right? And the guy says, so how would
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you like to ride for circle Y? And this naive kid that I am at
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this time, I'm 20 nothing years old.
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I'm like, I don't I don't even know what that means, right?
11:14
Like what does this mean? He says, well, here's what I
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want to do. What kind of saddles you like?
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And I tell him some of the features that I could dream
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about, he says. So this next week, a couple
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saddles are going to show up at your door.
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And again, I'm so naive. I'm like, you can ship saddles.
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I don't even know about any of this stuff, right?
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Yeah. And not everything was shipped
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in those days I would imagine. Yeah, right.
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And I'm just in, you know, and understand this is the early
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days of the Clint Anderson's, John Lyons, Pat Pirelli's, all
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this stuff that I am just digging into with every, you
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know, I'm watching the stuff on VHS tape.
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Well, this isn't even YouTube's not out yet, right?
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That's not even a thing. So anyhow, we sign our first
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contract with Circle Y and, you know, build, I get to build my
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own saddle and all these features.
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And I'm thinking this is the coolest thing, right?
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We're starting to do decent and some obstacle competitions and
12:07
things and building a business. We're starting to train outside
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horses for for clients and just really loving life.
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I mean, I have two sons at this point, young sons.
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This is this is moving forward, learning everything I can about
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the nuances of business and that for my father-in-law.
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And then everything changed because on December 24th, 2009,
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my father-in-law was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer.
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And you know, this, this pretty much rocks our world, right?
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Because this is, you know, we of course, you, it doesn't take
12:47
long to figure out that's, that's not a good kind of
12:49
cancer. Not that there is one, but
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that's, and you know, the kind of guy that he is, Jeffers, his
12:55
name was, he was heartbroken that the doctor has to tell him
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on Christmas Eve that he has cancer, right?
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That's just kind of a matter that he was.
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Well, you Fast forward a little bit and everything seems okay.
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He's doing treatments on his days off, which he didn't really
13:12
take days off, but you know, you get the idea.
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And Long story short, the following September 27th of
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2010, he had passed away. And I mean, it rocked our world.
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We, we were supposed to be doing, I mean, we had plans,
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we're moved, right? And it totally took the wind out
13:29
of our sails. And we just kind of, I call it
13:31
turtling up, right? It's kind of like a turtle.
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When, when there's life happens and they're threatened, they
13:36
just withdraw and kind of pull in.
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That's what we did. And I still remember this very
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vividly is like a a dream. I mean, I was out in the barn
13:45
and this idea it was, it was, I call him dad, right?
13:49
It's like, OK, it's time. And that was, that was pretty
13:53
clear. And he was the kind of guy that
13:55
go through the things in life, right?
13:57
But then when it's time, it's time and we needed to get back
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at it. So we're, we're well past that
14:03
original 2 years that I planned on working in law enforcement.
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We're well past that now at this point, I've developed a career
14:10
that most would love to have. I was a supervisor.
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They'd sent me through instructor school.
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So I taught in academies, I taught in service personnel.
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They'd sent me through defensive tactics instructor school, which
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I use a lot of now. And it, I learned so much about
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the human's brain and how we react in high stress
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environments and, and what our body does, what our brain does
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through that. Things that I very much
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implement now in what I do. But through this, you know, I,
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I've got that whole career. Everything's going great and
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we're trying to really start doing some clinics and, and go
14:49
around. But you know when you work a
14:50
full time job you have to work around when you can get leave
14:53
time and things. Yeah, it's not easy.
14:55
And when you're trying to schedule clinics out maybe six
14:58
months or more out ahead of time and you don't actually know if
15:02
you can get that time off, this is starting to become a problem,
15:05
right. So I'm still in essence working
15:07
2 full time jobs. I would work the evening shift
15:10
most of the time, so I would ride horses all day long until I
15:14
had to leave for work, which would let me out at a like 11 at
15:18
night. And then we turn around and
15:20
start all over again. Right.
15:21
So finally I just decided I listen, I I've got to pick.
15:24
It's not really doing either either careers here justice.
15:28
So we just decided that you can't keep 1 foot on the dock
15:32
and 1 foot in the water. You got to make a choice, right?
15:34
Either stay in the dock or jump. So we jumped and 2017 went full
15:39
time into the horses and never looked back since then.
15:45
Now my sons there's, there was still Mustang makeovers in the
15:49
Northeast and my oldest son competed in three of those in
15:54
the in the youth division when he was 8, when he was 9 and 10.
15:58
And then my younger son, the last one that they had in the
16:01
Northeast, he was 8 and he competed.
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So we had done some a couple horses for the adult version of
16:07
that and my son's dead, the younger version, which ended up
16:10
really, it kind of got us through that, met lots of
16:14
people, made a lot of connections and that that was a
16:17
pretty cool thing. And one of the horses, one of
16:19
the Mustangs is we had kept and is now my oldest daughter's
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main, main horse. And I in fact, have never
16:27
actually ridden that horse because she's a little bit on
16:30
the smaller side. But that, that was, that was a
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pretty, pretty fun experience. But Fast forward a little bit,
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you know I'm still learning what I you know.
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As the saying goes, the more you know, the more you know what you
16:43
don't know. Yeah, exactly.
16:45
And and that's, that's, that's been the pretty much a summary
16:51
of my journey with with horses now, you know, we, you bump into
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that. I think it probably would have
16:57
been 2021 or so. Social media is really starting
17:04
to become a thing, right? And I had, I had my business
17:08
account on Facebook and that which had, I don't know, at this
17:11
time, 5 or 6000 followers, which, which is decent, that's,
17:15
you know, somewhat respectable. But I'm, I'm riding horses every
17:18
day. But never really thought about
17:20
videoing stuff, right? Because to me it didn't seem
17:24
that interesting. It didn't seem like to me it was
17:26
just the everyday and I loved it, but I just never would
17:30
assume that people would find it interesting.
17:31
So at any rate, I I decided one day there was this a stump,
17:36
okay, just the regular stump from a tree that been cut off on
17:39
the side of the road on this dirt road.
17:41
And the horse that I was riding, he only had probably, I don't
17:44
know, not even a month worth of riding.
17:46
I was starting to ride. Well, he had quite a reaction to
17:49
this stump and it looked kind of funky.
17:50
It looked kind of weird, but I was like, well, you know what?
17:53
I'll just video this. So I'm videoing this from my
17:55
cell phone from sitting on the back of this horse.
17:58
And it's like a three, 3 1/2 minute video.
18:00
Put it online and it starts it goes to 5000 views, which at the
18:05
time a good video for me was like 2000 views, but it goes to
18:09
5010 thousand 20,025 thousand by that night and I'm going what
18:14
what is this? I don't even know like what's
18:16
going on, what's going on Well, by the couple days, it's 100,000
18:21
and a quarter of a million views, right?
18:23
And it just keeps going and people start I get all these
18:26
comments. They're like, this is awesome
18:28
More videos, please, Mort. And I'm going really like you
18:33
guys are finding this stuff interesting.
18:35
So like, wow, if you're finding it interesting, I guess I'll
18:38
just start videoing it right. So I start doing that and my, my
18:43
Facebook page is starting to blow up, right?
18:45
It's now at 10,000 views. Now we're starting to get these
18:49
messages and things and now we can get monetized, right?
18:52
And I'm, I'm like, you actually can get paid to do this.
18:55
This is, this is crazy, right? So we just keep putting this
18:58
stuff out there and next thing you know, I'm getting messages
19:01
from, I mean, literally all of South Africa, from Europe, from
19:04
Canada, right, all over the United States, from Australia.
19:08
And people are asking more and more like, well, we'll just keep
19:12
keep doing that. So in the last, I don't know,
19:14
it's 2 1/2, almost three years we've gone from training horses
19:21
full time, which I love to now I can't train horses to that same
19:26
extent because the travel schedule doesn't allow it
19:29
because I'm just, you know, on the road doing clinics all over
19:31
the country. And soon that'll be, you know,
19:33
Europe, Australia and, and all that stuff.
19:36
So it has been a crazy ride. And this is basically a whole
19:40
summary of what has happened there.
19:42
So that's that's kind of the the story in a nutshell to where now
19:46
we are still baffles my mind that people actually want to
19:49
hear what I have to say about horses, You know, because I came
19:52
from a guy with really no formal training in horses, but a desire
19:57
to just understand, right? And to learn the things that I
20:02
needed to learn and to get over myself, you know, because when I
20:07
was the impatient, as I described myself, the impatient
20:10
young man with anger problems, I had to understand that horses
20:14
didn't owe me anything, right? And.
20:17
Sometimes the slower you go, the faster you get to your
20:19
destination. Yeah, definitely the case
20:22
sometimes. You know, and I just needed to
20:24
learn that sometimes. Well, let me tell you a story.
20:27
When I was in when I still worked at the jail, there's a
20:30
captain there who was he was only months away from retirement
20:34
and it was at the end of our shift and not, you know, a bunch
20:36
of the folks are just kind of shooting the breeze.
20:39
And he he walks in to make some copies or something in booking
20:43
and he says he hears all of us talking about have this long to
20:46
retirement this long. Of course, most of us are
20:48
decades, not months, but he and he did.
20:50
This is the kind of guy they didn't talk a lot, but when he
20:53
did, usually you should probably listen to to it.
20:56
And he says, you know, guys, don't be so quick to get to the
21:00
destination that you missed the journey getting there.
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And that those words, that advice I I have taken and put it
21:08
in a lot of areas, right? And it certainly applies to the
21:12
horses, you know, and it's is don't be so quick to get the
21:15
quote finished product that that you miss the really cool moments
21:21
with those horses. You know those maybe aha moments
21:24
as you might call them, right? And at the same time, it's
21:28
reminded me in life that sometimes you just of course I
21:31
stuff to remind myself every day, but slow down.
21:34
Yeah, it's a hard thing to remember in our world and
21:37
everything is often outcome based.
21:39
And, you know, when are you gonna get where?
21:41
And once you get there, then you'll feel great.
21:44
And a lot of times you're right. The the beauty of life is really
21:47
in, you know, striving for these things that we want and, you
21:50
know, working with our horses. One thing that I think is full
21:52
about you kind of becoming so available to people online is it
21:56
really shows how people want to also learn and be able to do
21:59
that for their horses. And which I think is neat
22:01
because I kind of mentioned to you, you know, a lot of times I
22:04
think people send it to a trainer and then they'll be
22:06
perfect. We'll be at the end, you know,
22:07
and we can just have this great horse, try it.
22:09
And that's not been my experience.
22:11
Like the best way to do it is to really learn the horse for
22:15
yourself. Right.
22:16
Well, you know, that's a, that's exactly the case is horses are
22:20
not programmable, right? Like you don't download a code
22:23
into them and then it just comes out that way.
22:26
It is a literal journey of who am I and how am I communicating
22:31
and how am I being understood, right?
22:34
How is this lesson being taken and trying to really truly, this
22:39
is because I always say this in communication, there's two ways
22:43
to do it. One's very effective.
22:45
And 1 is what society is doing right?
22:48
First way is to listen, to respond.
22:50
And I think a lot of people train horses that way.
22:52
It's like you're doing this, so I'm going to do this.
22:55
Oh yeah. And it's a common way to talk
22:57
about it. Absolutely.
22:58
And one of the things, the most common questions I get will all
23:02
break. You could break it down into
23:04
this, this concept of what do I do if right, if this happens,
23:08
what do I do? OK, and if this happens, what do
23:11
I do? I'm like, but it's not a code
23:13
that that's that's not how it works.
23:15
Because really in in one big drawback of that is if you're
23:20
always trying to go back to your database on what to do if right,
23:24
the answers to it, you're always going to be caught behind
23:29
because like, you know, there's it's searching.
23:31
In other words, it's their buffering, right?
23:33
It's like the information isn't going to come up that fast.
23:37
So if dead can become the leader that those horses really need,
23:41
and if I can become the source of peace to those horses, then
23:46
really there's going to be more than one way to get to that same
23:49
spot, right? Just because I might be able to
23:53
get the horse to do it this way, that doesn't mean it's the right
23:55
way or the maybe I should say it the only way.
23:59
It just means that that is a way, right?
24:01
So it's no different than a GPS. If you're putting in your ending
24:06
destination, a lot of times you have more than one option of
24:09
which way to take, right? And as long as you're getting
24:12
there, that's ultimately the point.
24:14
Like my journey, getting this horse to the spot, maybe it's
24:17
straight, the straighter option, maybe there's more turns, but
24:20
oftentimes on all the terms, that's where the more scenic and
24:24
beautiful scenery actually. Is right.
24:26
I agree with that. So at any rate, with that I try
24:30
to be, and that's why now I don't actually train the horses.
24:33
I'm trying to teach the people. Yeah, I love that.
24:36
That's hopefully we can make more impact and affect more
24:41
horses because we've shown that way and other ways to more
24:45
people. Yeah.
24:47
And when you're talking about people saying like, what do I do
24:50
if this happens? I assume that's when they're
24:52
getting the big reactions. What do I do if they start
24:54
bucking? What do I do if they start
24:55
bolting? And that's such a smart way to
24:58
look at it that like you are looking like the outcome has
25:00
already almost happened. Like it's kind of already
25:03
happened. You got to the point you don't
25:05
want to be and you need to go back a little bit and be like,
25:07
wait, we don't want to get to the to the what ifs.
25:09
We kind of want to be able to learn and see that before we're
25:12
getting to those strong reactions where the horses
25:14
trying to communicate and strengthening that response and
25:17
method of communication, no. Doubt and you know, in a lot of
25:20
that, I think it it comes back to we as humans do this to
25:23
humans. And I say, I say a lot of humans
25:26
do this with horses too. And that is we question the
25:28
intent, right? Like in other words, I hear all
25:31
the time where people will be like, my horse just wants to be
25:33
in control. No, they don't, right?
25:35
And it's not about that. It's.
25:37
Not a motivation for horses. It really isn't.
25:39
It really isn't. But but it's so many times like,
25:42
you know, horses don't have egos, They don't have agendas.
25:45
Literally all horses are looking for is peace.
25:48
No, they, they don't think about money, our status, they don't
25:51
think about retirements. You know, I joke with people.
25:54
Do you ever have a horse try to help you put up hay in the in
25:56
the summertime for winter? You don't see that.
25:59
They'll come over and eat hay off the way, but they're not.
26:02
But they're not, they're not. That's not how they think,
26:04
right? Yeah, They, they live in the
26:06
now. And you can't as humans always
26:09
do that. Like, I mean, it's snowing
26:10
outside. You have to do the things I have
26:12
to make sure I have firewood for the winter, right?
26:14
I have to do those types of things.
26:16
So it's not exactly the same. But if we question the intent
26:20
we're we're always or assume maybe I should say the worst
26:24
intent, we're always opening up ourselves and the relationship
26:29
for problems. Yeah, that's really interesting
26:32
because there are a lot of those assumptions, those ways that we
26:35
interpret what the horse is doing.
26:37
And I think you're right that most of the time it's negative.
26:39
It's not that all the horses trying to find peace, trying to
26:42
find that equilibrium, it's usually they're disrespectful,
26:46
they're misbehaving, they're stubborn, they don't listen,
26:49
things like that. Sure, and you know, that was one
26:51
of the things that I I hear this happening all the time and you
26:55
know, being totally I try to be as transparent and open and
26:58
honest and all things that I do. But when I started my journey,
27:04
you know, I learned from some people and I'm not referring to,
27:08
you know, the Clinton Anderson and the John Lyons and all those
27:11
I'm talking to more the local whatever people, but I grew up
27:14
in the world of it was the smack em.
27:16
It was like show em. You're the who's boss, right,
27:20
all all that. That's that's literally what I
27:22
learned from people that I respected at the time.
27:24
And I'm not proud of that, right?
27:27
I'm not stating that's the way it should be.
27:29
I'm just saying that's what I learned, Right.
27:31
And at the same time, I can't live.
27:33
I've chosen and understood now that there are better ways.
27:36
But at the same time, I can't live in the guilt and all of
27:40
that of those things because that's the best I knew at the
27:44
time. Yeah, right.
27:45
All I can now do is go, OK, there's better ways.
27:48
I'll do that. Yeah.
27:50
And I think those are the ways that a lot of us learned.
27:53
Those are the phrases a lot of us learned.
27:55
Tell us just more about how that kind of evolved from when you
27:58
were, you know, breaking your back on the horses and breaking
28:02
bones to now your approach with horses and the way that you look
28:05
at things. So I think so much of it then
28:08
was about being the boss. It really was.
28:11
And I and because of that, the thought process then was about
28:15
tell them, tell them, tell them, right.
28:16
But there that that wasn't a communication.
28:19
That was a two way street, right.
28:21
So let me give you I use this illustration all the time is I
28:25
don't believe rains in the use of rains should be a one way
28:29
communication tool. I think that should be it's
28:31
almost like a phone line instead, where the communication
28:34
can go both ways. OK, so let me give you an
28:37
example of that. You can feel bracing this right?
28:40
And and what I mean by bracing this is it's a it's a leaning
28:43
against pressure is probably one of the best.
28:46
Yeah, which is causing through the cause of this is kind of
28:50
going off on getting deeper to explain something else.
28:53
But but it is kind of a deep conversation, right?
28:56
But what I'm saying is the mental bracing this the horses
29:01
have directly correlates and is the cause of the physical
29:05
braciness, right? So in essence, if a horse is
29:09
being bracey, that is a symptom. I want to figure out what is the
29:14
'cause right. So like I just put AI re shared
29:17
a video that I'd done a couple years ago about a horse on my
29:20
Facebook page. And it always this this is one
29:23
of the types of videos that always gets huge reaction
29:26
because it shows me working a horse through his bracing as as
29:29
and his anxiety, right? So the anxiety was causing him
29:33
physically to be very bracey in the face, right.
29:36
So in other words, he pulling against the rain, pushing
29:40
against it. His shoulder was just trying to
29:42
push out through what I'm asking for and I explain it in real
29:47
time and work through this every time I share.
29:50
That video goes way over half a million views.
29:52
I mean, it's gone. I don't, I don't even know how
29:54
many views it's got at this point.
29:56
But the reason is because it resonates, right?
29:58
It's relatable to people, absolutely.
30:02
What that's showing is the horse doesn't want to be there.
30:05
The horse doesn't want to be anxious, the horse doesn't want
30:07
to be nervous, but they don't know what else to do.
30:10
And this is exactly where a lot of people then assign the
30:13
negative intent to the horse. He's being a knucklehead, he's
30:16
being a knothead. He's just trying to be in
30:18
control. And, and this is where, that was
30:20
my original thought process. That's what I was taught, right?
30:24
But now I have learned through a lot of trial and error that
30:28
that's not actually what's happening.
30:30
The horse is not at peace because it doesn't know how.
30:33
It doesn't understand where the piece can actually be found.
30:37
And that's my job to help them show that right.
30:40
The horse will still be have to be accountable to those choices,
30:44
but I'm trying to show the horse how and where they can find
30:47
peace. If they and every horse is going
30:50
to pick that right? If they actually know where it
30:52
is a horn that's that's right in the head is going to choose that
30:57
so once. And if they are not, then it's
30:59
up to me to keep explaining it until they get it.
31:03
And I'm not in a hurry anymore to do that.
31:06
I used to be like, you know, the 11 phrase we've all heard move
31:09
their feet, move their feet. OK.
31:10
And I agree with that in some ways, but at the same time, why
31:15
and how are you moving their feet right?
31:17
And and which is as much of an important component as well,
31:22
just move their feet right. So again, through so much trial
31:27
and error, I and I and I tried to tell people this too, is I
31:30
hope that everybody frees themselves up enough to make
31:34
mistakes because. That's a huge one.
31:36
I think, I think it's immensely huge because if you're not, I
31:40
literally believe this is my motive or my idea every day is
31:44
if I'm not making mistakes, I'm probably not trying hard enough,
31:48
right? But.
31:49
Not learning, not doing new things, yeah.
31:51
Absolutely, because this is this has been the epitome of my
31:54
life's journey is making mistakes.
31:56
And it's very interesting coming back to my father-in-law because
32:00
growing up failure was something that was not allowed.
32:03
OK, now it was an interesting spin because it's not that you
32:08
just kept going and put all all of your effort into not failing.
32:14
Instead, it was just don't start it.
32:16
And that was it's stifling, right?
32:18
You just can't. That's not, I mean, not a good
32:21
way to look at it, But my father-in-law said something to
32:24
me one time and it totally rocked my world in a good way.
32:27
And it changed everything about my approach sense.
32:29
And he said the conversation was something like this.
32:32
I don't even know what we were talking about.
32:33
I don't remember it. But he said, you know, there's
32:35
no such thing as failure. I'm like.
32:38
Yes there is. I've been told my whole life.
32:41
No such thing as failure, he says.
32:42
No, there isn't, he says. There's no such thing as
32:45
failure. There's just the way you now
32:47
realize didn't work. And I thought about that and I
32:50
thought about that probably for a couple days.
32:53
And honestly, that's changed everything for me because you
32:56
know, for an example, you know, I don't know if you're, if
32:59
you've ever heard this story, but UD40 right, The simple
33:03
lubricant, whatever UD40, it stands for water displacement
33:08
and 40 is the 40th try that they had used to get that though
33:13
fission, right, right. Or you know, you could use the
33:15
example of Edison and the light bulb electricity.
33:18
All those things were tried multiple times.
33:21
Doesn't all of those first tries were failures.
33:24
All depends on how you look at it, right?
33:26
And, and so to me, that journey of going from that initial
33:30
starting my horsemanship journey, where I was getting, I
33:33
mean, I just did some stupid things.
33:35
You know, for instance, when I broke my back, that was just
33:38
because I, I rode the horse in a way that he was not ready for.
33:42
He was not prepared for it. So Long story short, I had a
33:45
collision with a fence, right? And that was basically when I
33:49
was having these these these wrecks, it was because I wasn't
33:54
preparing the horses for what they might see.
33:57
And in the law enforcement training and going through the
34:00
instructor schools and things, That's what really taught me the
34:03
concept of when you're teaching, you have to break it down into
34:08
steps that the student will understand.
34:12
And then those steps you can keep building on it and it gets
34:15
more and more complex and things, right?
34:17
I mean, it's so many cases you have to remove the, the problems
34:21
that are hindering learning, right?
34:23
And then sometimes, and that might be, for instance, if the
34:26
room is really cold, people can't focus on learning because
34:30
they're distracted, right? And, and at the same point, once
34:33
you start getting those things factored in, now a lot of times
34:36
the practical education and the practical sides of learning are
34:40
now you're going to put them in situations where you can
34:43
continue to build on that, right?
34:45
So that's why I've incorporated so much of cult starting and
34:49
stuff that I do is on the job training.
34:52
I've already put the steps in place and teaching them how to
34:54
give to that rain and yield off my legs and things.
34:57
But now I might bring a cow into the equation and I'm teaching
35:01
them, hey, This is why we're turning so that you can actually
35:04
effectively do your job. And it's like you see those
35:07
light bulbs go off and those animals to now they're going
35:10
totally makes sense. So I don't have to drill it to
35:12
death now and just do the same thing over and over.
35:16
I've taught them those steps. Now we're doing it moving into
35:19
the practical application. So it's so much less negative,
35:23
right? And in one other component with
35:25
this, because it was an interesting when I was working
35:28
at the jail, right? It's all about control.
35:31
You have to control the inmate as if you don't, that can get
35:35
out of hand, which means you can lose control of the unit that
35:38
they lived in, which then you could lose control of the jail,
35:41
right. And in some ways, this is how I
35:43
also grew up. I've great parents, by the way.
35:46
I mean no, no insult to them in any way, but in some ways it and
35:51
this is how they grew up. You do what I said.
35:54
They knew, yeah. I said so, Right.
35:57
And there is a component to that.
35:58
When a, when a toddler sees the ball running towards the road
36:01
and they want to chase it, it's a need to stop now on it.
36:05
But then the other component is you have to explain to them
36:07
after the fact why we don't chase the ball into the road.
36:11
Yeah, right. At a level that they'll
36:13
understand as a toddler. But at any rate, when I was
36:16
really getting serious about horses, I could make them do it,
36:20
right? In fact, this was another aha
36:22
moment for me, for me. I worked with with a man,
36:25
actually, Yeah. Jesse Westfold was the former
36:28
husband of Stacy Westfold. He didn't know me from Adam,
36:33
which was fine because I went to take a lesson with him.
36:35
And he and he says I I want you to go out and just warm up your
36:38
horse. He was still, you know, he'd
36:40
just done a lesson with somebody else and he was finishing that
36:42
up. He says, warm up your horse and
36:44
I'll be with you in just a minute.
36:45
That's OK, I'm out there and I'm loping circles with this young
36:47
horse. And I thought these circles were
36:49
like really circling. These are these are like good
36:53
circles. And my name is my attorney says,
36:55
okay, I can see that you're a talented rider, right?
36:58
There's the build up. Great, awesome.
37:00
But there's always a button, right?
37:02
Or however, he says you can make a horse do it, but does the
37:06
horse understand why they're doing it?
37:08
When he first said that to me, I'm like, I don't know, like
37:10
what? What difference does it make?
37:12
Yeah, how does it matter? How does that matter?
37:15
And he said, and through that he started working through some
37:17
things and that really stretched me.
37:19
And I got to the end of that lesson and my wife goes, so
37:22
would you think, how was it? And I'm like, I really had to.
37:25
I'm the kind that thinks about things later and breaks it down,
37:28
you know, often times when I'm cleaning stalls or doing
37:30
something like that. It's a perfect time.
37:32
Perfect time solve all the problems.
37:34
But at any rate, I needed to hear that a lot because what I
37:38
was starting this is so fascinating.
37:40
I was starting to this. This was a young man that I
37:43
really thought a lot of and when I started her under saddle, I
37:47
think she thought a lot of me. But we're about ride 45 when I
37:51
met with him and what I'd noticed the last week or two
37:54
before I met with him, she started becoming really hard to
37:57
catch in the pasture. Very uncharacteristic of her,
38:02
like what is going on? But I I didn't know and I used
38:05
to been taught or when I first started, I would try to fix the
38:09
symptoms. Well, the symptom is the horse
38:11
doesn't want to be caught. That's the symptoms.
38:13
So I'm going to teach it to be caught and we'll come back to
38:16
that. But what I had then figured out
38:18
through my whole approach to Jesse told me is I started
38:23
letting the horse make a mistake.
38:25
And when those mistakes happen, I would fix it, show what I what
38:30
I hoped for again, and then leave her alone and then give
38:32
her the chance to make mistakes. So what I started figuring out
38:35
is, hey, I can actually, we can still do the circles, but I
38:39
don't have to micromanage every step, right?
38:42
And it took about a week or so and it was the coolest thing.
38:45
The one day I went out to catch this horse in the pasture and
38:49
she came up to me again. So instead of treating the
38:51
symptom, which was a horse that wasn't wanting to caught, I had
38:55
really addressed the problem that was creating it right,
38:59
which was me telling the horse to do everything.
39:03
Yeah. The environment she knew she'd
39:05
be going into if she got caught. So that I think is a pretty good
39:09
illustration of that was the epitome of what why I'm doing
39:13
things now because I am a lot. I allow horses to make mistakes,
39:18
right? And show them again, hey, let's
39:20
do it this way because it's where you can find that piece,
39:25
right? And now the horses want to, they
39:27
don't feel they have to, and they don't feel like, like
39:29
they're going to get, you know, the proverbial beat up if they
39:32
do the wrong thing. Yeah, that mindset shift from
39:37
you have to succeed the first time or don't try or failure
39:41
such a bad thing. Shifting that to where, you
39:43
know, mistakes are stepping stone.
39:45
That's how we're learning things like that.
39:47
I think that is such a key piece to horsemanship because a lot of
39:52
those times when you're getting those strong reactions, I think
39:54
a lot of it probably comes out of fear of messing up.
39:57
You know, so much tension to try and make it perfect and right
40:00
and to not make a mistake, to not let the horse make a
40:02
mistake, to micromanage them so tightly.
40:05
And there's just so tension, so much tension between both
40:08
parties because they're so fearful of.
40:11
Of a mistake. And you know, like you say,
40:15
that's how you learn, that's how you're progressing, as if you're
40:17
making mistakes. And, you know, and I see this
40:19
play out with with people so much where realistically, people
40:24
all know that the room for error when you're talking about the
40:27
size and the strength and the power of a horse really is it's
40:31
not huge, right? There's not a lot of room there
40:33
for error. Yeah.
40:34
And because of that, it turns a lot of riders into the to the
40:38
reactors. Yeah.
40:40
They're always just trying to react to what the horse is doing
40:43
and instead of the whole other approach, right, that which
40:47
we've kind of just outlined and talked about that literally
40:50
changes everything, which is the right as the questions
40:54
typically, what do I do if, what do I do if?
40:56
In most every case, my answer to those questions are going to be
41:01
be the leader the horse needs be the leader.
41:03
Like there's more ways to handle this than what maybe would be my
41:07
first inclination or choice, but they can all have a successful
41:11
outcome, right? So that's why I'm, I, you know,
41:14
I try to really in part with people is get those horses to
41:20
follow your leadership and understand that you've got their
41:23
back in situations. You're not going to micromanage
41:26
everything because if you micromanage a horse, you'll
41:28
always have to micromanage them. It'll never change, right?
41:32
And teach those horses that it's OK, we'll work, we are a team
41:36
here. We will work this out, right?
41:39
But but most all of those same things that people are are
41:42
dealing with, they're actually causing it because of the
41:45
tension and the anxiety in their mind.
41:47
Yeah, that is also another, just another huge shift and it is
41:52
high stakes, right? Like you can get hurt on a
41:55
horse. The thing that's ironic or
41:56
however you want to put it is that the more you try to go from
42:01
that approach of control, the more dangerous I think that it
42:04
becomes because at some point you can't control a horse.
42:08
You know, there are, they are bigger than most people.
42:11
We can, you know, have some aids to help us kind of keep them
42:15
more in control. But if it comes to the point
42:17
where you can't control them, then what?
42:19
And then it really does become high stakes where, you know,
42:22
when horses are in their peaceful state, they're very
42:24
gentle, very calm, very non reactive.
42:28
Sure. So, and it's really I I made a
42:31
video one time where I'm out riding my one Mayor Liberty and
42:36
I'm riding her out. It's through the fall leaves and
42:39
you know, we're just out there and I'm riding a bridal list,
42:41
which that's a whole nother topic which can get people all
42:44
wound up and all those other stuff, right.
42:46
But the topic of this was control is actually an illusion,
42:50
right? It's it's totally something that
42:52
we think we think we have it. And that's one of the biggest
42:55
things of people when they get fired up, when they see that is,
42:59
well, you don't have control with that horse.
43:02
Like. And you don't actually have
43:06
control ever. Like if a horse wanted to kill
43:08
us, we'd be dead. That's the reality of it.
43:11
But like you just said, you know, they're actually very
43:14
peace. They're at peace.
43:15
They're extremely gentle. I mean, they, they can be more
43:18
gentle than anything. And they're huge.
43:20
We've all seen that it when they interact with kids or, or, or
43:23
whatever else. But so many times you think,
43:25
well, more control and oftentimes these same people, so
43:30
because they can't let go of the anxiety and, and the fear that
43:33
our own mental braces, right? Do we go to a bigger bet and
43:37
we're just choking up on them and choking up on them.
43:39
And that works for a while until it doesn't.
43:41
So then we go with a bigger bet a bigger bit and eventually
43:44
you're out of bed options. So then what do we do?
43:46
Well, then we tie their head down, right?
43:47
And we force them in this position and but we're under
43:52
control, right? We've got under our control and
43:55
it and it's just that's that's just not the way it goes, right.
43:58
And it's very triggering when people see me riding without a
44:01
bride all the times. I mean, I've got ridiculous
44:04
comments and messages from people.
44:06
That is, I mean, it would I'm a ridiculous.
44:10
Yeah, but it can get wild out there.
44:13
That's so. That's so interesting.
44:15
And the correlation, how we interact with our world at
44:19
large, I think it's pretty significant.
44:22
Think there's a good chance if we are one of those riders who
44:24
is always seeking control, probably a good chance.
44:27
That's what we're doing in our life outside of horses as well,
44:30
that we really feel like we can control everything.
44:33
And like you said, it's an illusion.
44:35
We have no control, not no control.
44:38
We have minimal control. We have some control, you know,
44:41
the way we behave, but we can't always control the outcome.
44:44
For sure. And you know, we can.
44:46
It does. Such a deep topic, really.
44:50
It is. It's immensely deep, but that's
44:53
the reality because sure. And a lot of times, you know,
44:56
I've had some real heart to heart conversations with some
44:59
folks who who really got to look at that reality.
45:02
We all have our things. We all have our issues.
45:04
Yeah, absolutely. Everybody's.
45:06
We're all figuring this life out together for sure.
45:08
Sure. And a lot of times those folks
45:11
that feel they need to have the most control the horse have had
45:14
a wreck, have had in fact. This is a fascinating concept.
45:18
Some of the biggest thing about people that have pushed back
45:21
when they see me riding bridal lists are because they've seen
45:25
some horrific things from horses.
45:28
So they almost try to compensate and come back in a larger way
45:33
and they assign or paint are painting a large brush stroke
45:37
with this one over lots of things that it's unrelated,
45:41
right? But it's still in their head.
45:43
So they're just assuming the worst in the rest of the
45:47
situations. And when you know, that's just
45:49
not fair baggage to put on that horse or this situation.
45:53
Yeah. And one thing I noticed just as
45:55
you were talking is the way that your language is different than
45:58
a lot of the language you might hear in horse training when you
46:02
were talking about teaching the horse and helping them to learn.
46:07
I think just that switch from changing the way we are thinking
46:11
about what we are actually doing can make such a significant
46:14
difference. Because if you think, if you go
46:17
from I'm it's my responsibility to teach the horse how to
46:20
interact with the human world. If we change that from I've got
46:23
to control them, I have to show them who's boss.
46:25
They need to respect me. Very different approaches just
46:30
by that foundation that is set with language and the way that
46:33
we are seeing animals in our lives.
46:35
Yeah, no doubt. And I appreciate you saying that
46:38
because that to me is one of the most important things at the end
46:41
of the day, right when you know, not not to be morbid, but at the
46:45
end of my days, I don't want to be known as the horse trainer.
46:49
I want to be known as a, as a man that could is compassionate
46:53
to both horses and humans and that cared right about because
46:58
like a horse, like horses don't have egos.
47:01
They don't care what our names are.
47:03
They don't care what what we drive.
47:05
They don't care about bank accounts.
47:07
All they literally care about is how do they treat me?
47:10
How does he treat me right? How what what happens when he's
47:16
around? That's that's literally all they
47:17
care about. So that is yeah, it ego is it's
47:22
a horrible thing. Egos.
47:23
Are they really? And I do want to be known as the
47:26
person who's who's different. Right?
47:28
Where? And I'll tell people, listen, I
47:31
might not be for everybody. Yeah.
47:33
Right. Or people might not be ready for
47:35
that approach also. You know, I think someone could
47:37
not be ready for it today and then maybe has those insights
47:40
and those lessons and can see the wisdom in that.
47:43
Sure, because I tell this to my wife all the time.
47:46
I'm like, and I'm really, I'm really glad you didn't meet me
47:50
when I was 18 years old, 21 because she would have she would
47:54
have not liked me. I'm I'm completely convinced of
47:57
that. This is we're all shouldn't we
48:02
all just try to be reaching the better version of us, right.
48:07
And, and out of that flows all that we do, how we treat people,
48:13
how we treat animals just. Yeah, and it's a beautiful
48:18
reality that we can change. We aren't stuck wherever we are
48:22
at. We aren't stuck in that place of
48:24
fear from the accident. If we're ready to, you know,
48:27
look at new ideas, take in new information, question the way
48:31
that we've been taught to approach the world because most
48:34
of us are approaching it from all we've known.
48:37
You know, it's not like we, we are consciously choosing like I
48:40
want to approach it out of fear and control.
48:42
That's just that's what we've learned how to approach it.
48:46
So it is a beautiful thing that we can change that we don't have
48:49
to be the same people that we were yesterday and we can make a
48:52
mistake with our horse and they're so forgiving.
48:54
We can go back and use a new method and and like you talked
48:57
about with your mayor, suddenly she wanted to be with you again
48:59
because of changes that you'd chosen to make.
49:02
You know, I, this is a saying I'll tell people often times
49:04
when I can, when I sense that they're running up against some,
49:07
some guilt or whatever. And I'm like, just remember, the
49:10
horses have forgiven us for mistakes we haven't even made
49:14
yet. Yeah.
49:16
And when you really think about that, it's such a foreign
49:19
concept because humans don't do that.
49:20
To humans we do not. Forget to hold on this stuff.
49:26
Sure, we hold on to it so heavy, and because of that, a lot of
49:29
humans can't forgive themselves for what we were just talking
49:32
about. Yeah, that is very true.
49:34
All the output that we are putting in the world, it's most
49:37
heavily directed towards ourselves.
49:39
Right, right. And that that to me is, you
49:42
know, Warwick Schiller did this thing that was, it's it even
49:45
factors into moving into like some judgmental ideas because
49:49
really that or you can boil back down to where we're assuming
49:52
that people are judging us, right?
49:55
Or we're not forgiving and that whole thing, it's kind of mixed
49:58
together. But did this exercise where
50:01
people who think that they're not judgmental actually go out
50:04
and ask, Hey, how many judgmental thoughts do you have?
50:07
And I think he does it with like pebbles in your pocket and you
50:09
can switch them around whatever. But go to the airport for worse,
50:13
go to Walmart. Right, right.
50:15
And we go, Oh my gosh, I can't believe that they would wear
50:17
that. I can't believe they would have
50:18
their hair like that. I can't believe they would say
50:20
this. I can't believe, right?
50:22
All these things are judgmental thoughts.
50:25
And I've seen some people that, I mean, this is one of the
50:28
biggest things I run into is folks that have had shown horses
50:32
in some way significantly, it's the idea of what people are
50:35
going to think this, they're going to think that and
50:38
ultimately go, so where's your horse, right?
50:41
If you're interacting with your horse, that is what matters,
50:46
right it in in showing that's it's a fine thing, right?
50:50
Like I'll I'll do that again someday, but you're in really in
50:53
that aspect. You're opening yourself up for
50:55
judgment because that's why they even called the judge.
50:57
Right. That's the whole purpose of
50:59
going there is to see if you're doing it right or not, Yeah.
51:01
That's the whole point. But I even have people come to
51:03
clinics and they're convinced they're, they're so worried
51:07
about what other people are thinking.
51:09
Yeah, right. And we get it.
51:12
That's, that's part of probably a maturity at some point where
51:14
we just go not worried about it. Like if you don't like me, then
51:18
if I'm not doing more ethically wrong, that's a new problem.
51:22
That's not a me problem, right? But at any rate, that you know,
51:25
that forgiveness and that grace to move past all this and the
51:29
judgmental ideas, that's a big deal.
51:32
And you talked about wanting to be known for compassion.
51:35
And I think that's something that is so needed within the
51:40
horse world and just the world in general.
51:43
I think as a population, everybody is so scared of
51:45
failing, so scared of people seeing their inadequacies and
51:50
where they're not doing it right.
51:51
And so we are just reacting, fear based and always worried,
51:57
constant worried state when we can feel that compassion, grace
52:01
to realize like your horse will forgive you.
52:03
You know you can, you can make a mistake and tomorrow you can fix
52:07
it or learn a new way to do it. Just that idea is, I think
52:12
really powerful because there is a lot of language and ideas in
52:16
the horse world that's like don't ever do this or this is
52:19
always going to happen if you do this.
52:21
And the reality is not really, you know, like it's a constant
52:24
interaction between people and experiences in the world around
52:28
you. And the, the horse, like horses
52:30
are different. And so we don't have to be so
52:32
scared that, you know, we we're going to mess up.
52:36
You've talked yourself, you teach people now, but it's
52:39
because you've messed up and then gone back and looked at it
52:41
and reassessed it and seeing how you can do things differently
52:45
that you've been able to find new and different ways of doing
52:47
it than what I definitely learned growing up, what you
52:50
learned growing up. So it's really great to have
52:53
those voices of compassion and grace that, yeah, it's okay that
52:57
you're not perfect. That's what life is, is being
53:00
not perfect, not never failing. Right, because it's just not
53:03
even reasonable to think that we're never going to make a
53:06
mistake. Yeah.
53:07
Just that idea now is. It's absurd, yeah.
53:11
And probably why it's so painful for us because we have this
53:14
expectation we have to be perfect.
53:16
We need to know, right? We need to never fail.
53:18
And then we are going to. So then we feel inadequate and
53:22
we react out of fear and we try to protect ourselves.
53:25
And, you know, and I think there's a lot of reasons why we
53:28
might feel inadequate in things or that we have to be perfect or
53:32
or whatever. But you know, I've really come
53:34
to grips with this fact of in some ways, not all of the
53:38
reasons, but a large portion of them are because we're just not
53:41
humble enough to allow ourselves not to be perfect.
53:44
Yeah, yeah, Going back to the ego, right?
53:47
Right, exactly. Which is why I, I am, you know,
53:50
try to be immensely transparent with people, whether it's a
53:54
video that I'm doing or whether I'm having a face to face
53:57
interaction. It's like I try to like I am a
54:00
real person, right? It's a bizarre thing to where
54:03
my, my career now is going in places that I could have never
54:06
dreamed. That's only beginning to even
54:10
fully materialize. But this is all, I've never been
54:13
here. So it's a little one step in
54:17
front of the other. And I make a lot of mistakes,
54:18
like I forget to get back to people.
54:20
I'm not intentionally doing that.
54:22
It's just my mind works in different ways, right?
54:25
And I'm learning what my my shortcomings are, trying to
54:28
address those and get the help where I need it, right.
54:31
But again, that's the that's the exact picture of horsemanship,
54:36
that picture of life. And it really goes back to what
54:39
that your father-in-law, I think it was shared with you that or
54:42
maybe it was at the in your work in law enforcement that it
54:46
really is the journey that is where we should be there.
54:51
We have in mind this destination.
54:52
But the reality is every every time we get to that new spot,
54:56
we're starting again, like figuring it out again.
54:58
And like you say, it's our first time experiencing this world
55:02
under these circumstances. Sure even goes into parenting
55:05
like I've told my if two. We have 4 kids total, two boys
55:09
18 and while he's almost 17 turned 17 here pretty quick.
55:14
And then a 14 year old and 11 year old daughters.
55:16
And we tried to tell them all like Please remember I haven't
55:19
actually been parents. My wife and I, we haven't been
55:22
mom and dad here. We haven't been parents to
55:24
teenagers before. Yeah.
55:25
And. That's a fun one to figure out.
55:28
Indeed then and then we were teenage parents to teenage boys,
55:31
but then, now the girls and that's a whole different ball
55:34
game. Right.
55:35
And again, even different personalities, you think you
55:37
have it figured out and then there's some different variable
55:41
all the. Horses.
55:42
So we try to give them the grace that they've never been that age
55:46
before either. You've never been parents that
55:49
age. And we really try to own the
55:51
same thing with them. Like we'll make mistakes, we
55:54
understand you'll make mistakes. We're going to do our best to
55:56
give you grace on that. You need to fix some of the
55:58
things if you keep doing it. But we understand that.
56:02
And the same same rules apply to us as parents too.
56:07
The whole thing is the horses and horsemanship and all of this
56:11
in life. This is why I, I say all the
56:14
time, I am so thankful to God that horses have come into my
56:17
life and helped me become or be on the path of getting towards
56:23
the destination of where I'm trying to go.
56:25
And knowing that the sometimes the journey getting there will
56:28
be a little messy and that's. Yeah, and it's interesting
56:33
because we like to cut ourselves as their teachers, but when you
56:35
go into it in that way with some grace, they really end up being
56:40
our teachers and like, hey, this is a place where you got to get
56:42
yourself together a little better, which is pretty, pretty
56:46
amazing experience to have. Well, I feel like we could keep
56:49
talking for a while and fortunately have to run in a
56:52
little bit, but maybe we'll be able to do it again sometime and
56:56
dig into some deeper stuff again.
56:58
In the meantime, tell everybody where they they can find you,
57:01
what you might be able to offer them with their horsemanship,
57:05
all that good stuff. So mostly we do a lot on
57:09
Facebook loop like horsemanship. Also we do have a lot more
57:13
training type based content on YouTube that is getting an
57:18
upgrade kind of overhaul. Our website is as well.
57:21
We have some really fun things coming up.
57:23
I'm writing a leadership course and lots of other courses that
57:28
again factor into my law enforcement background, but also
57:32
with horses is the specific focus, but also can relate
57:36
things that I've learned through, you know, working with
57:39
people and the ways that I have that's coming.
57:42
This is all going to be some, some of it will be subscription
57:45
based stuff, but we have so many hundreds of videos out that we
57:48
just hopefully can help people. Those are continuing to come.
57:51
And we're also have a really fun project we are going to be doing
57:55
this summer where we are going to be touring the western
57:58
states, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, probably getting into Idaho,
58:03
South Dakota, all of that. And this is going to be a format
58:05
that really tells the story of our family is going to be part
58:09
of it and an adoption because we we did actually adopt our oldest
58:14
daughter, which is in factors into, you know, the Mustang
58:17
experiences telling the the whole story of that and digging
58:21
into that a lot more. But also the same attributes
58:25
that we just started hitting on with horses is going to be
58:28
explained and how how God certainly blessed us and gave us
58:31
horses as an illustration on how we can live better lives.
58:36
And that will also be on on YouTube and things that will be
58:39
out coming out later this year. So yeah, we have so many things
58:43
coming down the Pike that we are super excited about.
58:48
Lots of great resources. Those sound exciting.
58:50
I'll definitely be checking into some of those.
58:52
And I just want to thank you for being here and, you know,
58:55
sharing your voice. I think a lot of us feel like
58:57
there's a better way to live our life with horses.
59:01
And so to have those voices that are saying like, yeah, you can
59:05
do it a different way and you can go from peaceful angle and
59:09
go in as a teacher, I think really helps people to find
59:12
their confidence and be able to do that for themselves.
59:15
And when you're talking about offering grace to your kids and
59:18
how it's like, yeah, we've also been here, you know, when we can
59:21
learn to do that for ourselves, we have so much more capacity to
59:24
do it for other people when we're not constantly trying to
59:27
protect ourselves, but we're able to see like, you know,
59:29
we're we're doing this, we're figuring it out.
59:31
And it's OK that, but it's not perfect.
59:33
And so thank you for your voice out there and for all the
59:36
resources that you provide. I think it's a huge asset to
59:38
people who have horses and want to have a good, peaceful life
59:41
with them. Well, thank you.
59:43
Thank you for joining us and learning about Horses that Heal
59:46
and the humans who help them. We hope you'll continue with us
59:49
on this journey. We'd love for you to subscribe
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Please share with your friends anyone who loves horses or
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anyone who might be struggling and could benefit from this
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As we say goodbye, always remember that the horse is
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