Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcript (Day 4 Part 19) (10/21/26)

Transcript

Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcript (Day 4 Part 19) (10/21/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to dive right back into the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: transcript from Tyler Robinson, day number four of the prelim hearing. Question,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: could you go, and this is my last area of question,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Exhibit 19, page 26. Prosecution, Your Honor, I'm requesting 20
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: minutes for cross-examination. We're coming up on 437. That'd be
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: my request, Your Honor. Defense, this is my last question.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, all right. Thank you. I appreciate the heads up. Defense,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: in your opinion, does this, the one on the left
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  Speaker 1: and the right, show matching individual characteristics? Judge Graff cuts
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  Speaker 1: him off. Counsel, has this been admitted? Because I see
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a display. I just want to make sure. Defense, it
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  Speaker 1: has not been admitted. Judge Graff, okay. Defense, I'm just
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  Speaker 1: asking questions as a foundation for admitting it. Judge Graff, okay,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: that's fine. It was on another screen. I wanted clarification.
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  Speaker 1: So it's not on any screen because it hasn't been admitted,
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  Speaker 1: but clearly it can be on her screen. Defense, thank you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Judge Graff. So only to the witness and counsel, table screens. Defense, question.
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  Speaker 1: Exhibit 19, page 26. Does this comparison show individual characteristics
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  Speaker 1: indicating that it was fired from the same weapon? Answer.
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  Speaker 1: There are individual characteristics present. but without examining it in person,
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  Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable making a conclusion. Question, okay. How
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  Speaker 1: about the next page? 27. How about that one? Answer again.
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  Speaker 1: I see individual characteristics on a very first glance. I
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  Speaker 1: can see maybe one striation that is in agreement, but
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  Speaker 1: without seeing it physically in person and having an accurate
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  Speaker 1: representation of the entirety, I can't conclude my answer. Question,
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  Speaker 1: and the last one, the third photo, page 28. Exhibit 19,
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  Speaker 1: page 28, same question. Answer, I do see individual characteristics.
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  Speaker 1: I do see some areas of agreement. Without looking at
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  Speaker 1: it further, I wouldn't make a conclusion. It's a holistic
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: approach when you're examining items. Question right, would it surprise
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  Speaker 1: you if I told you that all three of those
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  Speaker 1: were fired from different weapons? Answer again, I don't know
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  Speaker 1: any context to these photos other than what you showed,
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  Speaker 1: so I don't feel comfortable saying one way or the other. Question,
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  Speaker 1: thank you, Judge Graff. All right, prosecution. Prosecution. Good afternoon. Answer,
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  Speaker 1: good afternoon. Question, those last three photos that you were shown,
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  Speaker 1: had you seen those before? Answer, I have looked at
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  Speaker 1: them probably back in 2024 when it was published. Question, okay,
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  Speaker 1: that's a study. Is that what it is of some sort? Answer, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it was a look from the Association of Firearm and
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  Speaker 1: Toolmark Examiners. It was a volunteer of photographs of people
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  Speaker 1: that did have an incorrect answer in the proficiency test. Question, okay.
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  Speaker 1: And when you do an examination or a comparison, are
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  Speaker 1: you limited to one photograph? Answer, no. Question, you actually
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  Speaker 1: have the item in front of you, correct? Answer, that
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  Speaker 1: is correct, yes. Question, and can you manipulate it? You
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  Speaker 1: can turn it, you can look at every angle and
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  Speaker 1: every side of that item as you do the comparison,
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  Speaker 1: is that correct? Answer, yes, that's correct. Question, and as
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  Speaker 1: you're doing that process, You're looking for as many characteristics
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  Speaker 1: that match or agree or disagree as you could possibly find, correct? Answer, yes.
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  Speaker 1: It's a holistic approach. If you have a bullet, like
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  Speaker 1: in this case, I'm looking at every single land, every
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  Speaker 1: single groove impression, and doing an evaluation of each one
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  Speaker 1: of those. Looking for areas of agreement and disagreement before
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: rendering a conclusion. Question, would it be responsible for you
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  Speaker 1: to reach a conclusion based on a single photograph of
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  Speaker 1: a very limited area of two bullets? Answer, I would
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  Speaker 1: not feel comfortable doing that, no. Question, okay, I want
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: to back up. How long have you, first of all,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: where do you work? Answer, I work at Forensic Science
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  Speaker 1: Laboratory in Washington for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms,
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  Speaker 1: and Explosives. Question, how long have you been there? Answer,
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  Speaker 1: a little over six and a half years. Question, where
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: did you come from? Where did you work before that? Answer,
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  Speaker 1: prior to working for ATF, I was a latent fingerprint technician.
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  Speaker 1: recovering latent fingerprints from improvised explosive devices. I also worked
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  Speaker 1: as a crime scene investigator in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, and
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  Speaker 1: Anne Arundel County, Maryland. Question, how long did you have
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  Speaker 1: that position? Answer, I think, cumulatively, it was about five
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  Speaker 1: to six years. Question, and before that? Answer, those are
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  Speaker 1: the only ones. I think it was about six months
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  Speaker 1: as a latent fingerprint technician, two years as a crime
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  Speaker 1: scene in Winston-Salem, and three... in Anne Arundel County. Question.
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  Speaker 1: Do you have an education and training before that position? Answer. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: I have a Bachelor of Science in Forensic and Investigative
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  Speaker 1: Science from West Virginia University and have attended and graduated
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  Speaker 1: the National Firearms Examiner Academy as well as done specific
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  Speaker 1: training at my laboratory. Question. At each of the positions
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  Speaker 1: you've held, have you had on-the-job training at laboratories where
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  Speaker 1: you worked? Answer. I have. Yes. Question. And will you
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  Speaker 1: describe what that training at the ATF, where you are
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  Speaker 1: at now? Answer, yeah. So part of becoming a firearm
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  Speaker 1: and tool mark examiner for ATF was attending the NFEA,
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  Speaker 1: the National Firearms Examiner Academy, which is a year-long intensive
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  Speaker 1: comprehensive training program. I learned about historical cases, figures, and
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  Speaker 1: the evolution of firearms, fire, ammunition components, and manufacturing. In
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  Speaker 1: phase two, I worked 16 weeks of hands-on experience assembling
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  Speaker 1: and disassembling firearms, using a comparison microscope, comparing fired ammunition,
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  Speaker 1: components and tool marks going on manufacturing tours, and participating
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: in moot court. I worked on an independent research project
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  Speaker 1: in four practical exercises and then presented that independent research
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  Speaker 1: project to a panel of experts and participated in two
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  Speaker 1: moot court sessions on two of those four practical exercises.
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  Speaker 1: Then specifically for ATF, I still work on my training,
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  Speaker 1: going through practical exercises and competency tests, working under trained
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  Speaker 1: firearms examiners at my laboratory, and also continue learning about
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  Speaker 1: any manufacturing evolutions or going on manufacturing tours. And I
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  Speaker 1: also participate in moot court for every single competency test
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  Speaker 1: that I work. Once all of that's complete, then I
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  Speaker 1: work on supervised case before moving on to unsupervised case work. Question,
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  Speaker 1: and supervised case work means what? Answer, It means that
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  Speaker 1: the author of the final report will be a different examiner,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm working on all the work side by side
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  Speaker 1: and going through all the steps that are needed for
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  Speaker 1: the examination. Question, and in that process, you're having discussions
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  Speaker 1: about your work with a more experienced examiner? Answer, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's an opportunity to work a case that has come
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  Speaker 1: into the laboratory, but still have someone there making sure
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  Speaker 1: I feel comfortable with everything and following every step necessary. Question,
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  Speaker 1: how long ago was it that you graduated from from
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  Speaker 1: that supervised work? Answer. I believe that was in 2022
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  Speaker 1: or 2023. I'm not sure. Question. Do you supervise others now? Answer.
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  Speaker 1: I do not have a supervisor capacity, but I have
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  Speaker 1: had the opportunity to now teach at the NFEA. I've
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  Speaker 1: been fortunate enough to participate as an instructor in the
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  Speaker 1: test firing module and mini moot court module and the
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  Speaker 1: comparison of bullets and cartridge cases. Question. Are you required
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: to undergo continuing education in your position? Answer, there is
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  Speaker 1: not a specific continuing education program. However, when the opportunity
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  Speaker 1: to go on AFTE's annual conferences and it allows it,
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  Speaker 1: I will go to those as well as continually go
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: to manufacturing tours. Question, is this an area of science
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  Speaker 1: and forensics that is continuing to develop new techniques in
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  Speaker 1: advance and research? Answer, yes it is. Question, how do
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  Speaker 1: you stay up on all those advances? Answer, part of
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  Speaker 1: the way to do it is to continue my membership
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  Speaker 1: with AFTE. Again, they do annual training seminars recently, just
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  Speaker 1: in May of 2026 here in Baltimore, where there's case
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  Speaker 1: searches and studies that are presented different manufacturing techniques, just
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: new and upcoming research, that is throughout the community. Not
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: just firearm practitioners, but also standard and technology researchers, like
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: those from the National Institute of Standards and Technology, or NIST. Question,
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  Speaker 1: and I think defense counsel has asked you a little
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  Speaker 1: bit about, Some of the publications that have given criticism
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  Speaker 1: is how he's phrased it, but given recommendations on how
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  Speaker 1: to improve the science in your field. Are you aware
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  Speaker 1: of that? Answer yes, I am. Question, and is there
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  Speaker 1: an effort to adopt those suggested improvements where they have merit?
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  Speaker 1: Answer yes. AFTE especially takes those recommendations very seriously. If
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  Speaker 1: the PCAST asked for more specific design test studies, they said, yes,
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  Speaker 1: we will do that. I can think of just a
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  Speaker 1: few off the top of my head. that has satisfied
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: those asked that they wanted. Question, is your laboratory accredited? Answer,
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  Speaker 1: yes it is. Question, what does that mean to be
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  Speaker 1: accredited as a laboratory? Answer, an accreditation means that my
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  Speaker 1: laboratory has held to an international standard of reporting, testimony training,
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  Speaker 1: and proficiency tested. We have a large audit every four
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: years through ANAB, or the American National Standard Institute National
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Accreditation Board. And we also do internal audits And make
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: sure there's some type of audit that we are staying
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  Speaker 1: in within those accreditation limits every single year. Question. There's
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  Speaker 1: a mention of proficiency testing. Are you required to do
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  Speaker 1: proficiency testing? Answer. Yes, I am. Question. And are those
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  Speaker 1: specific as to what type of proficiency testing that you do? Answer. Yes. Question.
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  Speaker 1: What are some examples? Answer. We're required to take proficiency
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  Speaker 1: tests in all disciplines that our scope enables. So serial
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  Speaker 1: number restoration and the comparison of tool marks, bullets, and
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  Speaker 1: cartridge cases. Answer. Yes. Are these similarities and principles that
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  Speaker 1: apply to all aspects of tool mark analysis in comparison? Answer,
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  Speaker 1: can you elaborate on the question, please? Question, well, let's
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  Speaker 1: say you're comparing what we've been talking about here, rifling
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  Speaker 1: on a bullet. Are there principles that apply to the
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  Speaker 1: area that also apply in tool marks analysis, say, of
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  Speaker 1: impressions of a handheld tool? Answer, yeah. All of those
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  Speaker 1: comparisons are a product of tool mark comparison. A firearm
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  Speaker 1: is nothing but a tool. So when you're talking about
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: a cartridge case comparison, it's still looking at a tool
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  Speaker 1: and a tool mark. The tool in the case is
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  Speaker 1: the firearm. The tool mark is being left on a
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  Speaker 1: cartridge case or a bullet. All right, folks, we're going
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  Speaker 1: to wrap up right here. And in the next episode,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up with the remainder of the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: state's cross-examination of Samantha Karner. All the information that goes
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.