Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Facing Imperfections and Criticisms | Guest Jodie Frye Enneagram One

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Facing Imperfections and Criticisms | Guest Jodie Frye Enneagram One · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Proverbs 25 says, The purpose in a man or woman's heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then Psalm 139, 3, Lord, you are acquainted with all my ways, even before a word is on my tongue, you know it all together.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so self-awareness is God awareness.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what the Enneagram for me has just become this, you know, it's not about like this selfish, let me, ooh, I, you know, who am I?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at the end of the day, I am who God says I am.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: But to fully know who God says I am, I need to know how He's made me.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Hey friend, I'm so excited to introduce you to a longtime friend of mine, Jodi Fry.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: She and I met through a mutual friend, which, you know, that's the best way, right?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: And today she gets to share about her book baby that has had almost a four-year pregnancy.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: I truly believe that the Lord crossed our paths years ago.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so thankful for her friendship and wisdom throughout the years.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: I am so thrilled when the Lord allows me to partner with others to help them see a greater vision for projects that they are putting their hands to.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: I love helping others see what the Lord is calling them to and how he's opening doors for things like starting a business, writing a book, or maybe even recording that album.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: It has truly been a blessing to be on that journey with Jodi and to celebrate her along the way.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now, here are some fun facts about Jodi.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: She is an Enneagram enthusiast.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, she shares a lot about her experience that is so good.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: She is a Jesus pursuer, a wife, a boy mom, and an author of a book called Coming to Light: An Advent Experience Through the Book of Luke.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: She is a busy lady and one that is making impact in our world.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, let's get to this conversation with Jodie Fry.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, I'm Amy Wicks, wife, mom, author, certified Enneagram life coach, and host of the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the sixth annual Advent Series, where you're going to hear all about the practical rhythms for cultivating gratitude and celebration this holiday season.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Let's usher in this time of year with a tone of excitement because Christ's birth is something that has changed everything for you and me.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to share these powerful guest conversations with you about food freedom, navigating lost during times of celebration, sharing favorite holiday traditions, and even how to relate to all the Enneagram types, even unhealthy ones, at all those family gatherings.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: I pray this wholehearted take on the Aven season blesses you richly, sweet friend.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: Merry Christmas.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Jody, I I cannot even tell you how excited I am to have you on the podcast.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: The moment is here.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a while.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: I won't go into the whole story in this moment.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: I've explained a little bit of how we got to meet.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, thanks to Sarah Hagerty and a book launch and the book Unseen, the beautiful work of that.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: So many other components have tied our hearts together, knitted our hearts together, I think.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And our paths have gotten across again as you've created and launched this book, baby.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Can you believe it?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it has been um an experience for sure.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's been um really a four-year uh journey and never really thought that this is how it would um end, but I think it's really just the beginning of sorts.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but I've always kind of I think in the back of my heart, somewhere down in there, had a dream of writing a book, uh, but had no idea that this is how it would come to be.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very, very grateful and relieved that kind of it is finally here and it's scary and all of the things, but but it's here and it's out.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: So no turning back.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's one of the reasons we connected all those years ago as well.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: I there was just something that I I think, you know, we were drawn together and all of that.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: But in as we explored, what would it look like to partner in some way with Jody?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: But it was, it was seeing your gifting.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: And as I was describing the original, simply wholehearted collective to a friend the other day, it was this idea of I think I was put in some of these women's lives to help them birth that vision of what it was possible in their calling.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was almost, I was just intersected in some of their lives where it wasn't, it was almost going to be a flash as it will looking back on it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: That was gonna be longer term in some way, but it was this flash and this moment where and I don't even, I couldn't even put in a like encapsulate all that we talked about, but it was just like this helping give birth to vision and what what was possible and what others could speak and say, we see this in you, we see this gift and this talent, this calling.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so just so fun to see.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: I remember one of the things I remember vividly about that time together was this image, oddly enough, um, of a tree.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you remember that of how we were, I don't know if it was us trying to come up with just an overall vision for the collective or maybe some type of branding.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can't really remember what it was, but I just remember us trying to just imagine what it would look like for all of us to journey together and what was it?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: What was the reason God brought us all together?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we were talking about sort of being rooted and what it would look like, kind of just this grassroots growing up together and flourishing together and imagining just what may come of all of us being grounded together and established together.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, I just remember it like even you just in that time it being something really that we were all like hungry for more.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And but it was it was just such a growing together of something that we had no idea what was going to happen.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: But then God, it was like he was planting us, and we were we were planting seeds, we had no idea where all of us, each of us were going, but we were ultimately we were growing together, and I think we've all ended up in some different places, but it's been so cool, even just for you, like to watch you and how your Enneagram coaching journey, like to see how God took all of those desires, like the things you were trying to do for all of us and trying to voice and get us on a path of how ultimately like where he landed you, like that it's just been so crazy, encouraging to watch, like just you blossom into into exactly where he was trying to get you to go all along.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's been so beautiful.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's so fun to hear because you do kind of um in the background wonder like, okay, you know, like how do the all these pieces fit together?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: When the Lord really brought clarity and he, I think it was 2019, I'd finished my certification 2018.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: We had all met in 2016.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so this has been a but it was a long one, but ultimately at the beginning of the year when I was fasting and praying and the whole hearted rhythms, word worship right, which we did together back, I think that was 2016, 2017.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: But as I was doing my own whole-hearted rhythms, the Lord kept was like so clear Enneagram coaching, that is the path that you need to go on.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, what the heck?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I liked the Enneagram and I liked the coaching, but I'm like, that's the thing.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's simply wholehearted really gonna go in that direction.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: And uh just to see, thank goodness I have now.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking back and I'm like, oh, yeah, the Lord knew what he was doing, and he's pulled it's spiritual direction, it's helping women deepen their roots in the Lord, it's giving practical advice to their dreams of whether it's writing or building a business or taking their craft and a hobby to business.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know, it is really fun to see.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I know I I think I'm just at the beginning.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: I see this long term and just continuing to grow like a tree, right?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: We start up this baby ceiling and then we keep out growing pots and we finally get to be established and rooted.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, so fun.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: I love going down memory lane with you, Jody.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's so fun.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: It is now.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're gonna talk about this book, baby.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna talk about we're in this season of stepping into Advent, it's part of wholehearted celebration and wholehearted rhythms of inviting both rest and celebration.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's also the both and I talked about in the podcast just last week.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's grief and loss alongside celebration.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's always a tension in these times.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: But before we dive into the book and uh inviting our friends to experience it along with us this year, let's take a little caveat to the whole Enneagram conversation because of course that was part of our early conversations too.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, tell us a little bit of what that journey was like.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I I know it involved mistyping, even too.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: It did.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: It did.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the Enneagram, I adore the Enneagram.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I keep saying one of these days and a different season of my life, I I know for sure.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I get told all of the time, they're like, okay, you you need to do this.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I know, I would absolutely love it.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And um yes, be a kind of yes, I I would I would love it.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Jump on the bandwagon of the whole hearted collective again.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: And there we go.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, um, full circle, yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but it has definitely impacted so many areas of my life.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I mistyped for I would say a full, a full year or more as a five.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember even telling you and like talking to y'all, like, and I was like, no, this is this is definitely what I am.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: But then as I began to dive more just in the personal journey, like, I mean, I took tests, I did the whole thing, like, and I would type as a five.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: But then as I began to study and really go on my personal journey, I remember very clearly, I think maybe it was even a podcast, and I was listening to someone share one day about motivations and about how important it is to know why at the end of the day, like why you're doing, you know, your your core, like your core fear, your core desire.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember hearing about the one and and the core fear be being wrong, and one of the core desires being that I'm good, that I'm responsible.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I just so resonated.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there was just like this light bulb in me that was like, oh my, that is everything.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like if there would be anything that I would, you know, live or die on, it would be that I am terrified of being wrong or making a mistake, that I just want to be good.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be the good girl.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be that, you know, growing up.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to be, you know, I think I was so many times kind of labeled as the teacher's pet.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: I even took that into my adulthood, um, just wanting to always find favor, even as a good church girl, quote unquote.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in the church.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: I never wanted to go against the grain.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was like deep down, I kind of did.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: There was like this little bit of a rebel in me that kind of did because as a one, we want to make the world a better place.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: We want justice.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: We want, there is a clear right and wrong.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: There is black and white, there's there's no gray for for one.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And there should be, there should be room for gray, but and we have to learn that there is gray, and that gray is actually a really beautiful color.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have a lot of gray in my house.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, but that um but we struggle with it because we I think again, so much of whether that's just um nurture and how we grow up, or whether that's just nature, and that that it is or it's not.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so just anyway, as I as I began to dive into and read more and take personal accountability for the Enneagram, I realized, wow, like so much of this makes sense of why I'm doing what I'm doing and where some of the woundings come from in my childhood.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: And as I began to dig and write and journal about some of the things that hurt me as a young child, particularly as a third grader, an incident that I carried over into my adulthood and something that I still struggle with as an adult.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and really comes down to just acceptance and wanting to be liked.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was a rejection issue as a as a third grader for sharing my faith.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was, I probably didn't share in the best of ways, in the most tender of ways, but my heart was in the right place.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's been fascinating to go back for me and understand that because I did it in the quote wrong way as an adult, even sharing my faith has been something that's been very scary for me because I'm afraid if I share in the wrong way or I get it, quote, wrong, I'm gonna be rejected.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna leave me, or I'm not gonna have a friend.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so understanding that about me, that it's not that I got it wrong.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was actually that I was really brave to share my faith and that I have to trust the Lord to take the pieces that I did get right and that were light, and that he is going to make them right, and he's gonna work in ways that my humanity failed.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, it's it's his job to redeem, not mine.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I just was being obedient as an eight-year-old, trying to do the best I could with the knowledge that I had.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so, anyway, um, a couple of verses, just trying to circle back around because I could talk all day about that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think we might have to have another conversation about it.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's deep.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's deep.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Proverbs 25 says, the purpose in a man or woman's heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then Psalm 139, 3, Lord, you are acquainted with all my ways, even before a word is on my tongue, you know it all together.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so self-awareness is God awareness.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what the Enneagram for me has just become this, you know, it's not about like this selfish, let me, ooh, I, you know, who am I?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at the end of the day, I am who God says I am.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: But to fully know who God says I am, I need to know how He's made me and understanding and listening.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was even listening to you, Amy, um, and your little series about the top 10 things you need to know about each type.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: That may not be the right, the right exact thing you said.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um, even just that and the way that you've you said them a little bit differently than I've heard them said before.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, oh, that's good.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like just even even though I've heard it for years now, like re hearing it and said in a different way, like how it just puts language to these places that can be so confused and so like jumbled up in our heads that we're and again a one in my inner critic.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing I just am so hard on myself, and I can I can get really stuck in my head.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so to hear somebody give language and voice to something that for me can get, I can really devastate myself with, and I can really, I can end up isolating myself and really causing myself a lot of self-defeat.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but to to really be kind to myself and give myself grace and say, it's okay.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, this is it's okay to not be okay and to make mistakes, you know.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so the Enneagram is just it's a tool.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a tool that helps put language to that, those deep waters of my heart and um and helps me move through them in a healthy way.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say, I would say relationally, the Enneagram, both obviously, intra-personally for myself, as I was sharing, I'm terrified of making mistakes, which I think on one hand makes me a really great writer because I'm sure on the editing part side of things, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say the editing side of me, I'm like my design team and all of the the ones that have worked on my book, I'm like, I think they're so ready to be done with this because I'm just I I'm like, yeah, it's now it's just time to get it out the door.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: We've got it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's great, but it's like exactly, it's like that whole I heard something through the Enneagram about it's in the road back to you.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: I love this.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: It says, no one cares more about details than ones, but there can be a problem.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: The tendency to procrastinate.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a good sign if you spy a one tapping the eraser end of a pencil on her knee while staring blankly into a dark computer screen.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Though they're self-disciplined and driven to succeed, some ones can put off starting or completing a project for fear they won't do it perfectly.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I love like, I love it because it's like, okay, it's permission to not really to procrastinate like to use the word procrastinate, because to me, procrastinate goes, I'm lazy and that's bad.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so for one, I can't be laziness is bad and I'm not gonna be bad.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: But not being perfect, the the word perfect is almost like, okay, well, that's a good word in a sense.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, so it almost justifies like when I say I'm procrastinating, it's not because I'm lazy, it's because I know I can't be perfect in it.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: So like I don't start it because I'm like terrified that, well, why start?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's just I'm not gonna be perfect at it and I'm not gonna finish it.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: So why start it?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so, or I'll put something off until the last minute because like I'm really overwhelmed by it.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I work really well under pressure, and so I have to have a deadline, or I have to have very tight like parameters.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, parameters or like uh what I'm not the word I'm looking for, but I have to know what you want.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or if I like go into a TJ Maxx or like a like I I just I can't, like it's too overwhelming.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: So put me in a store where there's just one section.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where I know exactly where the sweaters are and I'm good.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just like, yeah, it's just specific focus.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I that's just how.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but that's like there's a part of me that if I didn't know that that's just how I'm created, that's how that God has typed me, that I would be like comparing myself.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: It opens myself up to comparison to somebody else, like one of my very best friends who's a seven, who loves to go into you know big department stores and just spend two hours and doesn't isn't phased by it and is all about fun.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I would compare myself and I'm always like, Well, I'm not fun, I'm not the fun one.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: But instead, it gives me permission to give myself grace and go, it's okay.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't mean I can't have fun and go do that every now and then, but I just need smaller, I need it needs to look like this, whatever this is.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's right for me.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, um, but yeah, also, okay, so one last thing about the Enneagram.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um interpersonally, the Enneagram, whether it's motherhood, it's been a big one for me.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, motherhood, although I'm I try not to type my kids, but I hundred percent disagree with if you have a child that is an eight, you know your child is an eight when they are born.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Out of the womb, you know if they're gonna be an eight.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only one I disagree with.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, yeah, we could have a conversation about that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's just no denying that that one.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, so I do have I I do have one.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: I 100% know.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but it has helped me like in my relationships.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the last few years have been years.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: If I were to tell you the stories of grief and loss and trauma in our family, just my family, even in the last few weeks that we have experienced and been blindsided by knowing, and I haven't done it perfectly at all, but even just preparing for this podcast and revisiting, I was the one in me listening to some podcasts on the enneegram to prepare and refresh my memory, remembering how like how we're wired and how God has made some of my family members has helped me turn what could be bitterness and anger and resentment and confusion into moments for wisdom and compassion and patience and forgiveness.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I haven't done it perfectly, but there sure has been a lot more space for it because God has given me greater capacity to understand why they're reacting or why they've chosen the path that they have, yeah, especially back to their childhood woundings and understanding why now as an adult that they have, because they never healed, that they're still coming from that place of their wounding.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really helped me have perspective and and look through the lens of the gospel rather than just the lens of my humanity at right at um the people that I love the most.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And be able to keep them as the people that I love the most rather than people that I end up, you know, bitter and resentful at.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that is so profound, Jody.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: I just wish we had more time to expand on this.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: And like I said, I think I think we'll have to revisit.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: I just so appreciate what you shared here because I think Jody, like you reached out, I believe it was probably an Enneagram one guest, I think I had on the podcast.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: And she said something, as you alluded to, you were listening to a podcast episode that led you, I think, to listen to more.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you hopped on Voxer and maybe even Voxed Katie Roselli and I specifically, because she was a one friend and part of that collective.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, guess what?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: I found out.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you were just, you know, we were expanding on that and and having, but um, but that you would share too vulnerably here.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: I I know that um each of us has experienced a lot, and all of our friends listening these last few years have been intense for so many different reasons.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: Not only the big macro, but uniquely each of us has had micro things.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: So um I I even think that this is like the such a beautiful picture of how you have worked through in self-awareness, because if you continued to stay at that place of needing perfection before you began, this book baby wouldn't be able to come out in the world.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I even love how you you probably will have a lot more books to your name in the future, but that for you to focus in and get started, you did it on advent.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's something really profound about that.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I want all of my whole hearted community to get your book for sure.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: This advent season.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I love advent studies.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: This one came into my hands last year, just as the advent season was beginning.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I am familiar with it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: It now is a bigger size.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so there's so much, so much we're gonna talk about.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: So tell me a little bit about your book and also why you use the word experience in the subtitle.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: So coming to light um first began in my heart and through my words on Instagram and Facebook um in 2019.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I was reading through the book of Luke during Advent season.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so um at Luke has 24 chapters.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: How perfect.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it was um 24 days leading up to Christmas Day.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's like, okay, God, did you really, did you mean to do that?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but um, it really is.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, who knows?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: But um, how kind, how sweet of God to create a Christmas storybook of the Bible with 24 chapters um for the 24 days leading up to Christmas, to what we as Christians herald as the birth of our King.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, one of the side notes to Luke is that it is the most detailed of the gospels as far as the surrounding the birth of Jesus.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And something interesting that I found out about Luke is that one of the most striking details is that um Luke focuses on the worship, is the is the one gospel writer that focuses the most on the worship aspect of surrounding Jesus' birth.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, and I think usually when you hear in church or you hear somebody talking about reading a Christmas story, it's most often from Luke.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: So um coming to light, um, it was it was really like a treasure hunt.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I just began um reading as I would read a chapter, I would pull out one verse, just what what, and it wasn't necessarily something that had to do, you know, the entire book of Luke isn't the Christian story, but when I was I tried to be intentional um to somehow wrap that verse in what is going to help you experience the coming of Christ, whether that's his coming initially as a babe in an anger, his humility, um, his his just awesomeness, his his mightiness to us, um, in our humanity, or his just coming close to us in our everyday ordinary.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think the the biggest desire in my heart is that when you finish coming to light, that you will have experienced God as your father.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my favorite, if I had to pick one, and there's multiple, but if I had to pick one, um my favorite one is the one on called compassion.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And each day in the devotion, I pick out a word.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's surrounded by this beautiful watercolor art that's original that my designer did by hand.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so each day it has uh is interactive, and so for every day you'll read the corresponding chapter in Luke.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so, for example, on day one, you read Luke One, and then the at the end of the devotion, you'll find a section called Reflect, where you will respond to the scripture and the word of the day.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then for those of us who need a little more space to to write and process our hearts, there's a journal section called Come with Your Heart.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then in addition to that, there is an audio recording section that there's a little QR code in the front of the book that will point you to a to my website, which is by the way, coming soon.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not there yet, but it is coming.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: The audios are ready, they're just not uploaded yet.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but but the point of the um the audios was again for you to be able to experience.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's something really beautiful about not only um you know being able to read, but to write and then also listen.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, sometimes we're just we're busy and we we don't have time to read, or sometimes I might have time to read, but I loved when I walk or I'm driving and I want to listen to something.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I just thought um it was in 20, let's see, I think it was in 2020 when I felt like the Lord was calling me to add another element to the uh collection that are the the written collection that I'd already done on Instagram and Facebook.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I added the audio to Instagram.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so that's where that was birthed.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so whether you're you know you're running or you're you're in your car or you're at your dinner table with your family, it really is something that I feel like everybody at whatever stage of life or wherever you are, you can you can um do um this this advent season and experience.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh that's it's beautiful.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's a little bit about it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it is available um on Amazon now, it's ready to go.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: It actually doesn't officially launch, so you can't leave a review if if you do have it now, you can't leave a review until November 1st or after November 1st.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, so we'll be in the clear once this is released to our friends here.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll be in the clear.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: We'll link to all of those things.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I would just say to add to it, I've I have talked about my contemplative practice, you know, throughout the podcast.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that the listening piece has been so beneficial to my rhythm of pausing because I have to, I don't have to, but it invites me to sitting, maybe holding something hot and warm and soaking instead of doing, or it's still participating, but there's a soaking element that being able to listen that I have just loved.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I do it on a daily basis with uh Lectio 365 app.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I love being able to have that Advent piece to to kind of sometimes it's an exit out of my time, or sometimes it's an entry.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's no right or wrong.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, you're walking and driving, and it's there's just something different that is touched in that moment of receiving.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: I agree, and I think Advent that is one of the things I do cherish is that that it really is, I think Advent is an invitation to rest and to from the busyness.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's this countercultural pause to say I'm not going to get wrapped up in all of the, you know, the craziness, frenzy, right, that can come during the season, even though again it's kind of like the whole Mary Martha um, you know, story, like that, that yes, there is an aspect of doing that has to happen during this season, but there's an intentionality of sitting at Jesus' feet that I'm also responsible for and that I'm also get to choose.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so whether you read, whether you listen, um, and you know, it's it is a beautiful act of worship um that I have not always done, did not always practice advent, did not know what it was really until my 40s.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's still new to me and something that um, and I write this in the book, I say it represents everything I adore about the gift of Jesus, our most extravagant treasure.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it illuminates the truth I hold most tightly to and find myself preaching most often to my own prone to wonder heart.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I know you asked me, Amy, to, you know, if there was something that I would leave your readers with, not that I'm leaving now, but if but if I did, it would be this.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've learned to cherish Advent more with each passing year, both in the beautiful and the brutal.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think perhaps it's Dietrich Bonhoeffer's words that encapsulate my experience and why I wrote Coming to Light.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: The celebration of Advent is possible only to those who are troubled in soul, who know themselves to be poor and imperfect, and who look forward to something greater to come.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we can just hang up now.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that is beautiful.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: And what a perfect example of what our friends can experience on a daily basis for that rhythm of advent.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I purposely am sharing this conversation in a timely manner so everyone can get their hands on both the book and the audio and and and you know, invite yourself to this rhythm.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: If, if nothing else, friends, I I just hope, of course, there's resources I've shared in years past and resources that I would wholeheartedly endorse again as well.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: But why not?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Why not do this one this year and get it um in your hands for this time of just celebration and and it can be respite if we allow it to be.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: And as you said, just to to take the invitation of pausing, even if it's just the 10, 15 minutes, it can make the season shift that we we really do long for ultimately.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: So so good.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love how you encapsulated.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: I know I had a lot of different questions, and that was beautifully, beautifully said, well shared.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: And as we are enjoying this celebration rhythm, one of the fun things that we've got to sprinkle into our advent conversations is just some silly rapid fire questions.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, so the question is which is the favorite holiday in your household?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Is it Halloween, Thanksgiving, or Christmas?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: And we're we're before Thanksgiving and Christmas here.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: Halloween is past, but traditionally, for at least the US 50 states, kind of kicks off this feasting and candy and all the things.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not my favorite, but it is a good launching point to all the holidays.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I would definitely say Christmas for for our family.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Not too surprising.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I love that you chose to have that be your first work.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh yeah, it's just beautiful.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's been hard.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: You've alluded, there's been hardship this year, especially and even most recently, but what is standing out to you for just uh what you feel like you can celebrate and reflect on and just brings about a sense of gratitude in your spirit?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to honestly think really hard about this one.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: And believe it or not, it was it's hard for me because I feel like um, again, um I don't terrified of criticism.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I have not been keeping my my gratitude journal.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I will not criticize you.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I actually, and not for this reason, although it was a good challenge, um, but I have been feeling the Holy Spirit just nudge me that I needed to start back because it's a great way to to negate that inner critic.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but one of the the I think the things I'm most grateful for this year has been my mom.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And uh she my parents live here now and they moved here during 2020.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it's a whole story I could go into about the sovereignty, and I think that's the other thing is the sovereignty of God.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: It did not make sense when my parents were moving here, did not make sense that they would be coming after leaving their home of over 50 years.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: But in that process, we lost Eric's dad um suddenly to COVID, and then a very traumatic loss.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, his mom is still living, but a very traumatic loss with his mom.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so to have my mom and my dad, but my mom has been a rock and has become one of my, she's always been one of my best friends, but she has become just I can't like I can't imagine life without her right now.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's so beautiful.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: And what a great reminder to those of us.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I talk to so many where that relationship is fractured.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but for those who it's so mendable and available, may this be a compelling nudge to just express the gratitude that you have for that's available.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a lot of compassion for those who don't have that because I also know on the flip side what that's yeah, I I don't have that with with my mother-in-law.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I understand and I've watched the hurt and the devastation on the flip side of that.
• 41:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's there's a lot of gratitude and there's a lot of compassion for what's what a lot don't have.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you for sharing so vulnerably.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know this is a big deal.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I love it.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's the simple things, right?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: In the end, I mean, sometimes we have big, flashy things, but the end of the day, our health, our relationships, people we love.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's right, all that matters in the end.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: It is people.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Last but not least, okay.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've been loving this question.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Someday I'm gonna do some series.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: I've thought about doing a devotional with Christmas carols or something, because I think it's just there's so much history out there.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the songs that we sing that we love, that rhythm of revisiting the favorites, right?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, what's if you can pick one, what's your favorite?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so you're gonna have to do a whole Enneagram.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna have to have a discussion later on this thing um about Christmas carols.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so, but anyway, I'll I'll save that because I know we don't have time.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I had to look up like the list.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's you know, that's probably not surprising to you.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Nope.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um so um I was like, is this even a carol?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I but it said it was, so I'm gonna, so I'm okay that it said it was on my list.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: But Mary, did you know?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, is that a Christmas carrot?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that like it said it was?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: I've been into it since the late 80s, early 90s, right?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a traditional one, but my list said it was, so I'm okay that it that it did.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, but here's why here's the line.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think I remember you talking about this once before.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I have a whole reason when you do a podcast on Christmas Carols and Enneagram reasons.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have a whole reason behind why this is my favorite and why I didn't pick another traditional one.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, so the line, though, in this one that says, Mary, did you know that your baby boy is heaven's perfect lamb, the sleeping child.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're holding is the great I am.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I love it because it's like it reminds me like I don't have to be perfect.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: He is the perfect lamb.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: He is the great I am.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's worshipful.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's so worshipful for me.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: The beauty of that.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: The beauty and the even that moment where we don't have to know it all.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: And God, God has it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: He knows exactly what he's doing as he places things in our hand.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: So grateful to be able to do this.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I I just, yeah, I I can't wholeheartedly endorse it enough.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, beautiful work.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll be I'll keeping I'll be keeping you and your family in prayer through this season.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I look forward to seeing more beautiful things on the gram of all that is going on in your world and the book.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, to all my friends listening in today, if you'll go say hi to Jodi on Instagram, we'll put a link there and just let her know how much this conversation meant to you.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Amy.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what did you think about that conversation?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it was fabulous her insights about being an Enneagram one and ultimately her journey and how it's impacted so many facets of her life.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think that probably you may have learned a few things from her experience.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: I know I did.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: It really was a joy to walk down memory lane with Jodi during this episode.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was so sweet of her to spend time with us.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: She really does have that calming voice and a wise heart.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, as I mentioned before, the link to purchase her book is in the show notes, as well as all the ways to engage with her on Instagram.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love it if you would take a minute to say hi to her and to thank her for being on this episode.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think you may even want to consider getting this advent guidebook for a friend or a loved one.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: Now, also, if there was something about the Enneagram piece, especially that stuck out to you that you think might help a friend in their Enneagram journey, why don't you send this episode to them and let them know specifically what part you thought might be meaningful?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now, next week's episode is going to be with Doreen Williamson.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: She is an author of a new book called Brown Baby Jesus.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't her first children's book, but she is going to share about the writing process, the Enneagram.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: She happened to be friends with Beth McCord, you know your Enneagram coach, but she didn't really learn about the Enneagram from her, so it's a fun, fun story.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: But in general, Dorina loves Jesus as she loves the kingdom of God and the body of Christ.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_03: She is so passionate about creating change.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that she has put together a resource for quote unquote the least of these, for our children, for the next generation to help them see God's love for them and how they play a role in the Big God story.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's really beautiful, and I can't wait for you to hear it.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now, friend, a wonderful gift that you can give to me, whether you are a new listener or you've been around for a while, is to make sure that you not only leave a five-star rating, but you take a minute to write a review about what you enjoy about this podcast.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: This helps me be able to get it into the hands of others who need this wholehearted encouragement for their faith, motherhood, and maybe even their business.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for taking the time to do this.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: It truly blesses me.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: So until next week, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted celebration.