Latest / You've Got Options / So Many Ways to Study Computer Science: BA, BS & Beyond

Transcript

So Many Ways to Study Computer Science: BA, BS & Beyond · You've Got Options

• Clare: Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode. are going to be exploring the world of computer science. before I introduce our special guest. Let's dive into some of the basics you should know about this major. In computer science, you'll take some slightly different engineering foundations than most other majors within the College of Engineering and Applied Science. You'll still take Calculus I and II, but you'll take some additional math courses like discrete math, statistics, or linear algebra. You will, of course, take computing along with courses specifically catered towards Logics and Ethics. We'll get more into the difference between the BA, Bachelor of Arts degree and the BS, Bachelor of Science degree and why you would choose one over the other, but curriculum-wise, something to note is that the BA degree does not require physics Whereas the BS does. There are many specialization options within the degrees including, but not limited to, artificial intelligence and machine learning, computational biology, human-centered computing, robotics, software engineering, systems, networks, and security. Some examples of what that could look like is Project EPIC at CU Boulder, which studies how social media technology is used during times of mass emergencies The Center for Computational Language and Education Research, or CLEAR, performs research related to human language technology and its application to personal learning. So research in the computer science department and in the field spans many different areas, software engineer, software developer, web developer, programmer, and research Graduates have been employed at companies like Amazon, Seagate Technology, Microsoft, and Google. But that's enough out of me. Let's hear from some folks who are actually part of this major. Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by two guests. One is an academic advisor for computer science, and then we have a current senior in the computer science BA degree. First, we'll chat with Sophie Alarcon, who is a senior professional academic advisor, to give us more insight into the curriculum, what to expect in this major, and maybe uncover some unexpected things. thanks Sophie for being on the podcast today. I appreciate you taking the time. So before we dive into the questions, I'd love to know just a little bit more about you, how you got to where you are. You are one of the few advisors actually that did engineering for their undergrad. So just curious about your educational career journey. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Thanks for having me. my name is Sophia Larcon. I I'm an advisor for computer science and now electrical and computer engineering. but I did study civil engineering myself when I was in school. So I went to school at the University of Texas at Austin My goal was to do environmental engineering, but at the time there actually wasn't a major yet. Yeah. They made it shortly after I graduated. Of course. Yeah. and so my goal was to do environmental and I ended up working at a consulting firm for a few years but I found myself wanting to do a more people-focused job. I liked being involved with students and I was really involved in a student organization when I was on campus. So I kind of found myself wanting to be on a campus again. That's how I started advising at UTE Austin, actually in the College of Fine Arts. So that's where my advising started. and then I moved to Colorado and ended up at the School of Engineering, kind of back where I'm from, Yay! We're happy to have you here. I just want to know personally about kind of your experience being an engineering student. And maybe how you chose an engineering major and then I can assume the job you got on campus was a catalyst for that kind of shift away from engineering, but also curious if there's anything that made you wanna do that shift. I'm happy to talk about that. Yeah. so I chose civil engineering from the perspective of like I was good at math and I took a class called environmental science in high school that I really liked and I wanted to do maybe something related to water or like clean energy. and then I studied civil engineering. I really liked the routes of all the water classes I took, like wastewater related. I didn't like the structural classes I took. So a lot of, you know, civil obviously goes into structural engineering. Was not good at those. So I knew I didn't want to go that route. Like I said, worked a little bit in that field and I felt like, you know, I do really want to make a difference in the environment, but it felt like with consulting, I'm helping these companies making sure that they're tracking their, emissions and all those things. But I don't really feel like I'm doing something with people. it was a little bit more spreadsheet focused and I'm a bit more of an extrovert. So when I was on campus at University of Texas at Austin, I was really involved with SHIP, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers. I got involved since my freshman year and then I was an officer for several years and then I was the president my senior year. so I basically just really liked working with students and especially working with underrepresented students and trying to help give them the support they needed in engineering. so I wanted to maybe go back there, but I found advising and I actually really loved it. and when I was advising students in the College of Fine Art, they were such interesting students, so creative. but you know, being back in engineering did feel like home to me. Yeah. So I do feel like I can understand some of the classes they go through, but only to like maybe their first or second year because civil j is really different Right. Awesome. Well thanks for sharing more. so we can dive into it. What are some common reasons you hear about why students choose computer science as their major? Yeah. So what I've heard from students and I talk to other advisors about this too to get a little feedback. students usually do choose computer science because they love coding. I mean, that sounds pretty obvious, but I see so many students that will tell me, I've been coding since I was ten or I've kind of learned to program because of Roblox or whatever it is, you know. So they learn on games or whatever and then they end up really enjoying it. So they just know how to build things and they want to do more of that. I have some students who are interested in game design because of that, but for the most part actually I see all kinds of interest too. a lot of them just want to be in engineering and be like problem solvers and make something, but with computer science you really can make something without having to, physically build it. So that's pretty cool. but yeah, for the most part, it's just people who wanna create something and solve complex and creative problems. Awesome. And what questions do students most commonly ask you about this major? And what are your responses to those questions? Yeah. So some common questions students will sometimes ask if they are going to pick like a concentration or an emphasis or what should they choose. and that's not a requirement. So both of our computer science degrees just have you take, the standard foundation courses and all of that, but then you get to choose the classes you want to take. You don't have to take them in an area. We have a page on our website though that has you know security or if you really like AI, take these classes. So you definitely can, but that's not something that you even have to think about. sometimes they come in wanting to know what coding languages do I need to know, right? it's pretty common that students in high school they learn Java, sometimes Python, but here at CU Boulder we really do want students to learn C. So what happens often is a student may come in and and know a bunch of coding, be really good at it. They took years of it in high school But they won't be prepared for the second level of programming, which they sometimes want to jump into with their AP if they don't know C plus plus. so if unless you you sort of teach yourself, the other option is we actually have a class that combines the content of one and two and it's perfect for students who know how to code but not in C plus plus and so you'll get all cut up. I didn't know. What's the class? C S C I twenty two seventy five. Because 2270 is our second competing course. 2275 is pretty niche. We only put students in it when they oftentimes they have AP credit for CS 1300, but I'm like, are you sure you want to jump right into two? That was my question. If they had AP credit technically for CSI 1300, but maybe it's not enough to really get them to that second level. Exactly. That's the most common case. So yeah, long story short, C plus plus. And then in later classes you'll also dabble in Python, C, HTML, I think Scala. I'm not a programmer. but I know that you will tinker with other ones, but you'll start with C. Good to know. Well I do Wanna talk about the difference between the computer science BA and the BS. Yes. how would you categorize that difference? yeah, I get this a lot. So the computer science bachelor of science, it is pretty much what you expect from an engineering degree. you are doing a hundred and twenty-eight credits like you do in the other engineering degrees. and you are doing the same sort of humanities requirements that every other engineering degree does. So it functions much like other engineering majors and you take capstone, you take all this amount of computer science, right? the BA functions a little bit more like an arts and sciences major, because it's so interdisciplinary. And it did come from arts and sciences before. So with the BA, you actually have to do an additional area of study, which means a minor, a certificate, or a double major, something of the sort. it's part of your requirements. Ooh, okay. I see. So if a student comes to you and is kind of talking about their interests, in what cases would you say, Hey, I think the BA might be a better option for you than the BS? what would that conversation look like? So the BA would be a really good fit for students who already are like, I want a double major. I want to do this really intensive minor or intensive certificate or something like that. So that's the perfect thing for them. because they can combine those and it's gonna work nicely together. And they're actually gonna take a little bit more of those arts and humanities, social science, general science, 'cause they're kind of broken down differently for them. they don't have to take physics, by the way. I did know that. Yeah. They don't have to take capstone. It's optional. okay. huh. And then they take less computer science classes overall. So again, they're making time for that other thing they wanna do. so with the BA that's where it's really worth it if you wanna do something else as well. Okay. So obviously the BA is very flexible. Obviously you have that time built in to do these other interests. how flexible would you say the BS degree is in terms of integrating minors, study abroad? Maybe if they do have these other interests, but they still want the BS. that totally can still happen. I have plenty of computer science BS students who still do minors or even double majors. So, happens all the time, but it's just not as custom fit to it. And I mean, well, I'll take that back. If you're in an engineering major and you're computer science, there's gonna be a ton of overlap But if you're doing a double major in say economics or something, it's gonna be a little harder because they've got all those arts and humanities and stuff and we don't. So it doesn't play as nicely. But you still can. computer science BS still has free electives. And there's a ton of natural science too. So if you're gonna do an a science major, you're probably gonna throw all those into your natural science requirements anyway. So, you know, it still happens. the BA's just more suited for it for sure. Yeah, that's already kind of built in, whereas with the BS maybe you have to do a little bit more planning and be a little bit more proactive. Definitely. Great. And then you said study abroad, so I'll touch on that, but both of them I see students t study abroad for a whole semester at times. It's just a matter of planning. if they are clever about it and they leave a semester where maybe they are only doing humanities or maybe even a natural science, then great, you don't have to worry about engineering classes, right? and there's programs that students have gone on like to Korea where they actually do have engineering classes. And so I've had students do that as well. So study abroad is definitely in the cards for computer science, both majors, good to know. Well, which classes do you students usually find the most challenging and why? Yeah. So the sort of notorious ones, I would list three classes and I'll explain them. So algorithms. principles of programming languages and operating systems. So the first two are required foundations classes. So everyone has to take them. And we famously tell students, don't take these two at the same time. You're not gonna have a good time. So with algorithms I think it's pretty math heavy, but it helps you think like a computer scientist in the similar way that discrete does. with principles of programming languages, it is really interesting because you're learning I think this is where they use scala because you're learning about programming languages. So you're looking at it from above and it's very abstract. so I also hear that this is pretty tough. this is one of those things where like work collaboratively. Obviously in ways that are allowed by the class, but work with students in your class to kind of learn those concepts because it's really different from regular programming languages. And then the last one, operating systems, it's not required at least. So it's optional. But it is a tough class and it's a good core class to take. it's one of those where it's so hard, but students will tell me I'm so glad I took it because it's so applicable to everything I wanna do. it's both challenging and it's kind of a favorite. Yeah, I know of a class like that too that I have students tell me that. it's really hard, but it really helps them kind of understand these concepts better and really connect with the material. So yeah, it kind of depends on your mindset, maybe. Exactly. So I tell like it's worth it. well then flip side of that, what classes do students usually enjoy the most? I would say that project based courses. one popular one is object-oriented analysis and design. it's one of their core options. Again, they don't have to take it, but a lot of students choose to take it, especially if they like the software development route. So I've heard that w the project you do in this class looks really great on your portfolio, Intro to cybersecurity, or I think they also call it cybersecurity for a converged world. it's one of our core classes as well, optional. it's really cool because you learn about cybersecurity and I think there's an assignment where you get to like hack into your grade and change it in like a controlled environment or something. so I think that's fun. Students tend to enjoy that class. And then like many engineering departments, we have special topics courses and those change every semester depending on what professors feel like teaching or what they're really passionate about. And then we have some classes that either are taught by other departments or co taught. so we we have a lot of overlapping with Atlas in the info department. And those can be really cool because they're related to computer science, but in different angles of it, like the creative side or the UI side. and then one more would be cognitive science, which is co taught with philosophy and linguistics, I think. Yeah. Mm-hmm you've probably heard of it. Yeah, I've had some students take it. Popular class. it's really cool because it's how the brain works computationally. And then lastly, I have some students who starting to take some of the AI path classes and machine learning is one that helps you with that route as well. Well, given that maybe some of the most popular classes are those kind of project based classes, how much of your normal built in curriculum emphasizes hands on learning. I mean, it's computer science. So we know that a lot of the work is gonna be done on the computer. but how much of that is kind of project based? Yeah, it's an interesting word hands on for computer science because yeah they are doing everything on their computers, but Right. Mouse on maybe right? Like where they get to have some sort of autonomy, I guess, over it. So I would say that in capstone you will probably get the most of that well there's several capstone options in computer science and one of them lets you go with the engineers and do stuff with them. so they have a mechanical capstone that they occasionally let a couple computer science students take and they love them because they'll do a lot of the coding, but you'll also get to work with the ones who are building something physical, right? our capstone, which is software project, you'll do a lot of talking to the clients and making something and working with the team so it is still really hands on, but in the computer science way. and then there is also a capstone option that's sort of a combination with business. And so if for you that means I wanna make a product someday and sell it or work with a team to create it, then that's a perfect option for you because it's the entrepreneurship side of things. so again, that's also pretty hands on, I would say. Very cool. I didn't know You had so many capstone options. That's really great. I'm learning now, after having gone to electrical and computer engineering, that it's not common to have this many capstone options. I think that's really cool. It is. it's a little confusing at times 'cause I'll tell them Technically all the options are senior thesis, which some other departments don't have, software project, interdisciplinary project, which is the mechanical one, and then entrepreneurial project. So yeah, we do have a lot of options for them. I would say 90% of students do software project though. Okay. Good to know. Yeah. Awesome. Well, what mistakes do new students make when planning their coursework? So I would say the first one is taking too many classes. you come in your first semester and you're excited and you just like, I wanna get down early. But you know, it's a lot. it takes a lot out of you to just get used to your first semester of college. So I always say just take less than you think, in your first semester and then you'll get to know what you're able to handle. So I think that would be one as far as planning coursework. others would be impulsively making changes, based on what you hear from other students. keep in mind that there's so many majors. There's the computer science BS and the BA. You may be hearing from someone who's in a different major from you or, different engineering from you. And so always check with your advisor first 'cause you may be getting the wrong information if someone has a slightly different situation than you. I get that a lot too. especially 'cause we have the pre med track in biomed and so we get do I have to take organic chemistry? And I'm like, No. Not unless you want to. Thank goodness. Yeah. Yeah. So always Check in your resources. Yeah. what support systems help students succeed in this major? I would say just like any other engineering major, everything that comes down to what we have here at Willville, all of the student success resources, practice exams, tutoring, all of that is available for first years In the engineering center, there is a space called the C Cell, C-S-E-L, that is where all the computer science people hang out. And that's where they do their homework and that's where they do their lab. So even just being there to do your work is probably gonna help you a lot, community building and also just academically. so make use of those spaces. don't be afraid to talk to academic coaches. they're excellent. If you start to feel like, in high school I didn't have to manage my time like this or, I didn't have to do this much homework, then start talking to a coach because they can help you figure out how to how to manage all of that. I feel like I always have say this, but go to office hours, even if you're not sure what to ask yet. Just go to office hours. someday you'll be asking me about research and you'll be like, How can I do research with someone? And it's nice if you know the professor. You can start talking to them. So knowing professors is really valuable. Kind of along the same lines. And maybe you've of already said all these opportunities, but are there any opportunities that students should take advantage of early in the major Yeah, good question. I would say that if you are a BA student in computer science, it's probably good to start thinking of a minor early or something you want to do. You don't have to decide your first year, don't worry about it that much, but start thinking about it because around your second year, we do want you to be like, okay, what do you want to do? Because, you can't start a minor late in the BA when you need it for graduation. So that's a good thing to think about your first year. a good time to think about study abroad because you've got plenty of time to think about it then. And then get used to making use of these on campus resources. even if you feel like you don't need it that week, you might meet people there. So take advantage of that early. You'll just get in a good habit. Are there any clubs or organizations, maybe co-curricular activities you recommend students get involved with specifically? So there's some organizations that are specific to computer science that I hear good things about. So there's one called Hack CU, CU women in computing. CU Cybersecurity Blueprint Boulder is really popular. I believe it's actually not CU affiliated, but I just hear so many students talk about it because they get to kind of almost take computer science and use it for the community, like to build something cool that people need. so it's almost like volunteering with your coding experience. there's a Colorado data science team, there's BuffVex Robotics, and then outside of the Computing specific stuff, there are engineering organizations for all engineers that are really great, like OSTEM, NESBY, SHIP, SWE, SACE, ACES. you don't have to be in those affinity groups, you just can be part of that community if you want to. I love it. we'll go into our rapid fire round. There's only two questions. But I'll say the question and you just say the first thing that pops to your head. What's your best advice for choosing a major in general? Yeah, I mean, I always tell students, 'cause I think they sorry, this is a long answer, but No, please. they come in and they're like, Well, my parent wants me to do this or that and it's like, you're the one that has to do this forever, right? what do you want to do? with all this, I think our degree plan is actually quite open ended, where there's space for humanities, there's space for science. So don't waste those. use that to learn about other things. I think it's important to make well rounded engineers. I think those are important classes as much as some students might not be interested in them. I think for me, I realized that maybe I studied the wrong thing. it wasn't exactly what I ended up doing. But in the end, how important is that? you got an education and you got the experience and the growth from it. So, it's not the end of the world if you pick the wrong major. You can still do the thing you want to do. I think generally it's those experiences that can also help you decide eventually. Last question. What's one piece of advice you wish every incoming computer science student knew? I mean, this is gonna sound like such a self plug, but meet with your advisor. Yeah. I know you're gonna feel overwhelmed. and you are gonna have a million questions and we can't answer every one of those questions, but we can definitely point you in the right direction for everything. and sometimes we can just listen too it's a lot, right? Yeah. So we're a listening ear for sure. We're all really nice. I promise. Yes, I promise. We know everyone and they're the best. So definitely come talk to your advisor. All right, well that's all the questions I had. Did you have anything else you wanted to share? Something you didn't get the opportunity to talk about? I guess lastly, maybe one more piece of advice. Yeah. find your community. that was so important for me when I went to school, and then it brought me back here to working with students. yes, I studied civil engineering and and I learned a lot, but I also found out what I'm passionate about. So definitely find your community at CU Boulder. I think it will make a bigger difference than you think it does. in the end that's what's gonna determine where you end up in life too. Great. Well thank you for talking with me today, Sophie. thanks again for coming on. Nice, thank you. Yay, we're done. Wow. It went by fast. Now that we've covered the curriculum and had our chat with Sophie, it's time to hear from a student who has gone through this major and can tell us what it's like, what has helped her succeed, and how she plans to use this major and experience to propel her forward after graduation. Interview with Mary: thank you, Mary, for coming on the podcast. Appreciate it. Do you just want to tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, where you're from, why you chose CU, major, all that good stuff? Yeah, sure. Well, hi everyone. My name is Mary Coden Candid. I am a senior this year. I'm graduating in May of 2027. I'm studying computer science and I'm minoring in engineering management. I'm actually from Colorado. I'm from just south of Denver in Highlands Ranch and I decided to go to Boulder because I am from a buff family. I have two older sisters that both also went to Boulder. and on top of that, I always say that I think that if I was out of state, that Boulder would be my dream school. Totally. a little bit more about me. I'm in a sorority. I'm in Kyomega. so that's a big part of my college life here and then I'm also really into yoga and running. I just got my yoga teaching certifications. Amazing. on campus I'm involved in the Computer Science Undergraduate Advisory Committee, And then I am a student employee at the Office of Information Technology and I also TA for one of the engineering. classes. and then during my summers I've been really lucky to have a few really awesome internships. my first internship was at Medtronic, the medical device company, as a software engineer. My second one was at NBC Universal I was on one of their operations and technology teams that was in charge. It was actually really cool. My team was in charge of putting content onto streaming services. So if anyone watched like Love Island Stuff like my team was in charge of getting those episodes onto Peacock every day. Well, we thank you for your service. and then this most recent summer I interned at Visa as a technical program management intern. And I feel like through my experience I haven't had the most traditional computer science route but I do think that I still have zero regrets about being a computer science major and I think that it really set me up for success in the job functions that I did end up in. That's great. Thanks for sharing. That is all super cool stuff. Really cool stuff that you're involved in. Thank you. So tell me a little bit about how you decided on computer science and I also want to preface you're a bachelor's of arts student. You're part of the BA program. So, what got you interested in this major? So, honestly, I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do going into college. I knew that my strengths more so aligned with math and science than they did with like the arts, and I was always pretty interested in technology. I went to a STEM focused, charter middle school, and then I took a few coding classes in high school. school so that kind of initially sparked my interest. however I will say I wasn't completely sold on computer science. Like I was interested in technology. My parents really wanted me to do it. but at the back of my mind business was always an option and then also mechanical engineering because I really like the idea of majors that you can kind of apply to a really broad amount of industries. But yeah, I was leaning for business a little bit more, but then I realized that I would get a really strong technical background, which regardless of the job you end up in, I feel like in this day of age is important. and has taught me a lot and I think has really set me up for success to go and explore different job functions and stuff. Yeah. Awesome. So how would you describe this major to someone who knows nothing about it? Yeah. I feel like something that's really cool about this degree is that you get to learn about computers at so many different levels. Like there are classes for literally everything. And I feel Like it gives you a really broad understanding of how technology works as a whole from the fundamentals all the way to actually building real products with it. it's good to hear that there is such a broad spectrum that you can apply to that field. I actually was surprised by the amount of choice you have in the degree path at least with the BA it's more so but in the BS too you have your core classes and your foundational classes and then beyond that it's all upper division electives that you get to choose And I think that's really cool because you get a full, general bird's eye view of computers as a whole and then you can pick your poison. speaking of which, what made you choose the BA over the B S? so I think for me as someone that wasn't entirely sold on computer science. I just thought that it would align more personally with my goals and Okay, A I hated physics when I took it in high school. So when I found that that you didn't have to take physics for the BA I was like, wait. Hold on. This might this might go well with me. I also really like the aspect that the additional area of study is required. And you can still do a minor certificate with the BS obviously, but it just takes a little bit more to integrate that into your degree. I don't think I'm following the traditional software engineering computer science pipeline. And because of that I feel like the BA really complemented that for me because I was forced to choose another area of study and for that I chose engineering management and with the two of those is how I found out what I want to do when I graduate. So I really feel like it allowed me to continue that exploration even though I had a major selected. Well what has been the most rewarding part of this major for for you. one thing, I mentioned earlier, I think having a strong technical foundation is a really important skill to have in this day and age. I feel like I just know a lot about random things. even if it's like my T V speaker isn't working, I'll be like, wait, I learned about this. I can fix this. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I can see this being applied everywhere all the time. And then I think another thing would be the products and applications that you build and you get to see go from start to finish. So one of my favorite classes was software development. and the first half of the semester we were learning all these different concepts and then the second half of the semester we were working on a great project that, we got to create an idea and build it out and I thought that that was so cool to see a thing go from start to finish and be able to deliver a product at the end And I think that's so cool because you get to actually see the work that you're doing be put into a real product. flip side of that. What's been the most challenging part of this major for you? okay, I'm gonna be really real and say for AI. Yeah, I feel pretty lucky that when I started my degree, AI wasn't nearly as advanced as it was now, I mean it still existed obviously, but just not nearly as good and I feel like I can only imagine how tempting it is these days with the newest models to be in a class like thirteen hundred or data structures and just wanna put everything into JatGBT. But I will say, I think as much as AI is really scary, I think it can be very helpful. And I think more so than relying on it to get you through your assignments, using it as a study buddy or tool can be really beneficial. yeah, so I would say that's my biggest advice is that it's kind of here to stay now, and we don't really know what's gonna happen in the future, but I think using Using it to your advantage can be beneficial. Yeah, it's a challenge for sure. I know that's a big topic, especially for computer science students. so I liked your point of it's here to stay. So learning how to work around it, work with it in a way where you're still learning and you're still gaining those skills is kind of the point from here on out. Well, you are involved in a lot. Internships, clubs, so this is kind of a two parter I'll start with the internship side. What's your advice for getting an internship, getting involved? any kind of tips and tricks that you think helped you gain that experience? I would say the biggest thing for me is probably being persistent. honestly, there are a lot of things that can make you stick out in a job application and a lot of the times because unfortunately in this day and age your resume is being scanned by another AI it's hard to stand out a lot and so I would say the number one thing is just really, really sticking with it. last year when I was looking for my internship, had a really hard time finding one, to be honest. And at that point I already had two internships on my resume. And I think honestly, the biggest thing is just applying to everything that you see as soon as you can. Something I always say is that I don't think I was ever necessarily qualified for anything I've ever applied to, but it can never hurt to apply. I never thought that I would get all these internships, but I just applied and I saw if I would get it. Yeah, absolutely. I'm a big proponent too. Apply even if you don't think you're qualifying, even if you have three years of experience when they really want five, you never know. put your name in the pool and who knows. Yeah, see what happens. I really I like that advice a lot. I think another thing is looking, especially when you're younger, looking for specific programs that are looking for freshmen and sophomores. There are a lot more things out there than you would think. Yep. and then also finding small things on campus that you can put on your resume. I got my student job at the OIT office when I was like a freshman and it's not super technical or anything crazy but it is something to have on my resume and since I've had that now for almost four years it's a good thing to know that you can get a job and you can stick with it. another thing probably that will put you apart is finding leadership positions, and I know it's harder when you're younger, but joining those clubs early and making those connections so that when they need new leadership people, you're on their radar. Yeah, absolutely. How did you start to get involved? How did you find out about these opportunities? Were you like, I'm just gonna go all in and join all these clubs? Were you more strategic? I knew that I really wanted to be in a sorority when I first got here and I feel like that was kind of hard to navigate because I feel like that's not a super popular take in the engineering school. So I feel like my first semester I was real focused on that but once I got my footing there I tried to be better about checking my emails that's how I got involved with computer science undergrad and another thing I would say that was really beneficial for me was honestly will bill living here actually gave me so many friendships and connections to other students in the engineering school that I don't think I ever would have met half these people, yeah. If I didn't live here I feel like being in Willville as a first year engineer really does set you up for success. And I feel like I had a really strong foundation of that, and being able to bring that through with me, the following four years set me up for success not only in my friendships but also my friends will tell me about this club that they're joining or what classes they're taking and we all help each other out I think it's been a success for students just because you do go through something so unique. Yeah. That especially first semester, second semester. being able to be with all these people who understand what you're going through. Yeah, absolutely. are there any misconceptions about this major that you would like to address? Debunk maybe prove right. Ooh The C Cell is not that scary of a place. I actually love the C Cell a lot. I feel like people are really scared of it. I feel like that's another good community place specifically for computer science. any other misconceptions? Okay, I think one that I want to debunk is the whole job market situation. I do think it went through a really rough time these past few years, but There are still so many jobs being open in every single day. And there's so many tech companies, tech startups, you can find jobs, you just really have to look and be persistent. I would say that was my number one reason for success, I appreciate you providing that perspective of being persistent, continuing to look and be creative. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, semester when I was in the trenches of my internship search I met with one of my professors about it and she was like even if you don't find a actual internship there's so many different places you could go to somehow help them in some techie way whether That's your home library or your church or your student org. there are so many people that could be helped with technology. you can make that opportunity for yourself too. Speaking of Careers. So you said you've had kind of a unique path. I would love for you to kind of dig into that. And I think that probably leads into what are you thinking about after graduation? After getting to explore so many different roles through my internships, I have realized that I want to move more so into like technical PM, which is not the traditional computer science route, I don't think, but it's been really cool for me. I wanna collaborate and I feel that wasn't something that software engineering could really provide for me. So I feel like Project management aligns really well with my skills and interests and I've realized that I like to be able to understand the technical side of things though and I think that's why I have zero regrets about being a computer science major. Cause honestly, the jobs that I've done the past two summers you probably could get with a business major maybe, but I do think that being a computer science major really set me up for success and also set me apart from the rest of the applicants but yeah I did get a return offer from my internship last summer. It is great. Congrats. Yeah thank you. I'm really excited. so I have the option to go back to Visa. I'm still trying to figure out it's in Denver and I'm from Denver. I've been here my whole life and so I really wanna move. So I'm still exploring my other options, but it is really nice to have that For further education, I don't have any plans of it right now. I know the BAM is a really, really cool program. and I feel like especially if you are more so interested in the software engineering route, I feel like that would be a little bit more beneficial. since I don't wanna be a software engineer, I don't know how beneficial a master's in computer science would be for me. Right. But I do see myself at some point going back maybe for an MBA the Project Management Institute, which does the project management certification. that is really great about how you have a backup and just kind of thinking about further education. I think I did something very similar. I got my undergrad in business and I was like, I could just go do an MBA. It would probably help, but also I don't know if I want to be in business. And turns out I didn't. So in hindsight, I'm glad I waited. Totally. Although I do think that the BAM program is still a great deal and a great program. Absolutely. You honestly couldn't go wrong with either of them. Yeah. But I feel like if you still want to explore and figure out what you want to do with your life, I feel like maybe. Waiting on that is a little bit more beneficial. Definitely. And for anyone who doesn't know what the BAM program is, it's a bachelor's accelerated master's. So you do four years of your undergrad and then you go on to do a fifth year and get your master's. You get to overlap some master's credits in your last, usually senior year. so it cuts down on time, it cuts down on money, it's a great program. Most engineering majors would have some kind of BAM program available, not necessarily in maybe the degree you want to go in. That's kind of just to speak to not all majors offer every single master's program. It is more specific and usually aligns with the courses you take in your undergrad. Context, context, preface, preface. well thank you for sharing all of that. I hope everything goes well and I wish you the best. what has helped you succeed academically in this major? I would go back to my point on my connections. Yeah. Like my friendships here. After my first semester I don't know if this is for me. this is really hard. And it is really hard. I think a lot of people feed off of other people's good energy. And I do think sometimes in such competitive fields it's really easy to get in a bad loop right of that. But I feel so lucky that I have such a good group of engineering friends and truly from the bottom of my heart I feel like my experience, my degree would not be the same without them. I think it really helps. And I think it also might have to do with me also being in Greek life. I feel like priorities are a little bit different in both of the groups but having a group of people that is at the engineering center till like two AM sometimes or actually have finals till the last day of finals and can't just leave a week early. it's really nice to be surrounded by a good group of people that have similar morals and values and goals as you do. so yeah I feel like that's really helped me succeed. That blows my heart. I love it. Well, we're gonna get into our rapid fire. So first thing that comes to your mind. what is something maybe routines, habits that keeps you sane during midterms, final season? Yeah. like I said at the beginning, I'm really into yoga and moving my body. I feel like especially during midterms, it's really easy to be so sedentary especially because Once school is over and you're just studying for finals, you're not walking to class or doing any of those things. So I really try to put aside an hour a day to move my body and not look at a computer screen And then also I tried to set a time where I call it. I think I would benefit more from getting a full eight hours of sleep than pulling an all nighter and Yeah. And cramming and yeah. I'm way more of a morning person, so then if I do that, I'll just wake up in the morning before my exam and Yeah really quickly review. What advice would you give your first year self? Probably to just keep going. Yeah. just keep swimming, girl. You got it. I feel like most people have it in them. And I think a lot of people sometimes give up on themselves a little bit too early. And yeah, I feel like just being confident in yourself. you have what it takes. Most people have what it takes. I don't think that much of your brain is determined before you come into college. you can learn so much and you can put in so much effort. It's really up to you. Last but not least, what makes this engineering discipline meaningful to you? it's so cool to be in an industry that is so rapidly changing. Yeah. And I feel like it provides a lot of opportunity for learning and growth. the summer at my internship in the three months that I was there, things changed so much. And I feel like it's just a really good place to never stop challenging your brain. I also like that you can see it everywhere around you That's it. That's all the questions. Did you have any other thoughts, I know it can get hard and I know it can be discouraging. I definitely had those moments. But just keep going. Awesome. Thank you, Mary, for being on the podcast. I appreciate your time and your perspective. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yay, we did it. Clare: wraps up our computer science episode. I hope you all learned something. I hope you enjoyed it. And as always, keep your ears and eyes open for a new episode. Bye y'all.