Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Cards Beat LA In Extras, Dodgers Overrated? Let Graceffo Start

Transcript

Cards Beat LA In Extras, Dodgers Overrated? Let Graceffo Start · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Lance Lynn. And the Cardinals are back
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: at 500 after taking two straight from the Dodgers in L.A.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: They're just three and a half games out of that
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: third wild card. I don't know how that has happened.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: They get school bowl tonight. But I got to ask you, Lance,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the cards are 36 and 32 on the road, and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: they're averaging five and, you know, 5.2 runs per game
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: on the road, much more than they get at home.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Why are they so much better on the road?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, some of the road cities they play in,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: especially the Central, are more hitter friendly. That's one thing.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: You never know. I think each year teams are different,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: whether it's that sometimes you get a home team that
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: only wins at home and they're barely you know, at
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: 500 or below on the road. I think every year
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: it's a little different. I think you're looking at a
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: young group that it doesn't really matter where they play.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe Bush stadium's a little bit harder to score runs
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: in at times just because the ballpark plays a little
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: bit bigger. It's a more pitcher friendly ballpark. So that,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, heck, we've known hitters that gets
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: in their head and then they just, they change their
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: approach or do something different or feel like they have
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: to do something different and they just swings aren't as good. So,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: You just never know. Maybe this group likes to be
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: on the road and likes to play in front of
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: road crowds that boo them and this and that. You
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: just never know.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: They're young.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: They go into ballparks not really caring, not really thinking
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: too much of it, so it doesn't bother them on
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: the road. I think sometimes scoring runs at home becomes difficult,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: especially at Bush.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Well, certainly the crowds at home could use a little
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: extra energy. We see some of that playoff The Cardinals
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: get on the road, even if it is Bowen.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Energy is energy.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I just see guys like Burley, you know, hit one
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: to the wall time after time at Bush. And you
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: can see there's frustration, you know, on their face because
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: it's a tough place to consistently be a power hitter.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: When you pitched at Bush, did that come into play
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: in how you would attack guys at all?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially bottom of the lineup with no juice. You're like, hey,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: hit it as far as you can. It's probably not
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: a homer here, you know, especially early in the count.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Just like, hey, let's get out of this at bat.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Let him hit a fly ball that, you know, is
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: decently deep, but you know that as long as you
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: keep him in the middle of the field, it's not
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: going anywhere, especially on certain days when the wind's doing
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: what it's supposed to do for a pitcher. So, yeah,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: you pitch a little differently. Each ballpark you go to,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the weather changes. who you have in the field, what
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: lineup you're facing, what they're trying to do. That all
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: kind of goes hand in hand, day in and day out. Well,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: it did for me. You know, other pitchers are different.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: But I knew what I had to do to win
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: that day and what I could exploit and not exploit. And,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: you know, different ballparks cause for different types of attacks.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: And as a hitter, I remember telling Lars and those
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: guys when I was with them the last year, I
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: was like, hey, you need to get your doubles in St. Louis,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: get your doubles and your extra base hits in St.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Louis.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And then if a ball goes, it goes, um, that day. Um,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: but the higher you lift the ball in St. Louis,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: the worse you got to drive the ball in St. Louis.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And if it's a double, so be it. But the,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: the high fly ball does not travel in St.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Louis.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: The, you got to drive, drive the homers in, in St. Louis,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: unless you're down the line. So get your doubles and
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: extra base hits in St. Louis, drive the ball. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: then when you get on the road, uh, Go to
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Wrigley and dump a few in the basket at 330
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: in left center. And, you know, call it even as
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: it always shakes out as the year goes on, Jim.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: It evens out home and road.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Evens out. You know, the Cardinals are getting some.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Home runs in Los Angeles. And you look at that
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Dodger ball club, right? A lot of money spent. Everyone
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: said they've destroyed the sport. You know, they're going through
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: some problems now because they have their own little infrastructure
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: on how to pay for things.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: That is drawing some scrutiny.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: But in terms of the team they're putting on the field,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: they are 500 since June. I know they've dealt with
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: some injuries along the way, but they are a 500 team.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Last night, one for 18 with runners in scoring position.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: If you look up and down the line, a big
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: name you know will produce. Freddie Freeman doesn't have a
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: ton of homers. Hernandez, not the kind of season he's
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: had in the past. Mookie Betts, 230, 240 hitter. Are
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: they maybe not as good as, now granted they got pitching,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: but are they not as good as people give them
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: credit for?
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't go that far, Jim. They've won two in
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: a row. And, you know, until you take them off
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: in October and they don't win it, then we can
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: start talking about it. I think you're looking at a
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: group that has to play a lot of getaway days,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of, you know, big TV games, a lot
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: of travel that travel eats edges year goes on. You're
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: looking at two straight years of, uh, last game of
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: the year. Uh, they were in, um, they always get
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: to travel to Japan or wherever the season opener is.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: They always get stuck with that too. So I think
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: we're seeing a group that is worn out at the moment,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: but I also think that they also don't care right
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: now in a sense. I don't like, they think they
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: want to play well. They want to win. So I
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: don't know if the I don't care or they don't
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: care is the right way to say it. But they're
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: conserving and doing things that they need to do to
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: be ready to go come October because of how much
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: baseball and how much stuff that they've been involved in.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And they get stuck with for being, you know, one
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: of the primetime teams and having primetime players. There's nothing
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: worse than having to have every getaway day a night game,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: especially when you're in L.A. and everybody. where he flies
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: over two and a half hours or more. So I
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: think you're seeing that and they know how to manage
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: it come September to be ready to go in October.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So I wouldn't put too much stock in what's going
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: on unless they fall on their face in October. I
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: think the last couple of years they've shown there's no
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: need to go win a hundred games and lose in
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the first round. Let's just win 92 to 95, be
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: healthy and get everybody ready to go for October and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: then we'll win then. So We'll wait and see if
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: they are not as good as they think they are,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and that will involve them not winning the World Series.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: That's the only way they're not as good as we
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: think they are.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: Makes sense. All right, makes sense.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Otani, by the way, having a rough series against the Cardinals.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: They might rest him. Their manager's been talking about that.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: There's been some speculation maybe he's dealing with some kind
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: of injury. What's it like playing in Los Angeles? Back
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: when I traveled, I loved going there because there's celebrities everywhere.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Ballpark because i think it's held on to its vintage
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: feel but it still is a modern ballpark except for
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the dodger dog which they've reinvented a few times in
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: recent years most overrated food in baseball but i what's
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: it like playing there because i think the weather is
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: great it's a great place to play.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I think the churro is the way to go up
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: there anyways when you get in the stands you hit
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: the churro so um when you look at la um
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: as a i play there as a as a home
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: player and as a road player Like you said, there's
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: a different vibe in the ballpark every night, whether it's
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: the way, how loud their speakers are. I think they
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: have the loudest speaker in all of baseball when players
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: are coming up, when the fans are on there, stuff
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: like that. When you're warming up, when you're getting ready
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: for your games, all that, the fans are just different.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Down in the bullpen, there's a, yeah, like you said,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: there's celebrities, there's this and that. When you drive up,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: it's always sunny. It's just, it's got a vibe to it.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say it. And when
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: you're there, there's energy. no matter what day of week
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: it is, what time you're playing. Um, so I would
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: say that that's what it's like. There's never a time
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: where you have to search for energy because the ballpark,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: the atmosphere playing there alone brings you the energy. And
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: there's other ballparks that are the same. I would say, uh,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Yankee stadium was the same for me. It's like when
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: you're there, there's a different vibe. Boston was the same too.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: That has a little bit of the vintage feel to it,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: like you're talking about. So, um, you get to certain cities,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: certain cities, uh, bringing out the best in people because they,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: you have natural energy. You don't have to try to
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: make yourself get up for games as the season gets
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: long and things of that nature. And then other cities
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: you get to them and it's just like, man, let's
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: get out of here and let's get done with this
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: one o'clock day game and get on the road.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: St. Louis has that energy, had that energy.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I should say when the team's good, like all the
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: stuff that teams do to try to build energy that
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to me kind of hocus pocus in a sense, The
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Cardinals never needed that. When the Cardinals were winning, no
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: one cared about in-game entertainment or how loud the speakers
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: were or whether balls were leaving the stadium when they
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: thought they might be a home run. Hopefully the Cardinals
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: get back there sooner than later, but at its peak,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals are part of that in terms of stadium
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: that have built-in energy, don't you think?
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember I always was there when the energy
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: as a home team, so you always felt that as
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: a home player. I know road players would always come
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in and say, man, you always had fans in the stands.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: You always had good atmosphere and this and that. I
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: think over the course of time, there is some gimmicky
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: stuff or hocus pocus, as you said. I guess it's
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: coming to October soon, so I guess you can go
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: hocus pocus. Uh, but, um, yeah, you have to grow
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: a little bit too. I think, um, when you start
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: not making the playoffs and then you also don't kind
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: of navigate some of the, uh, newer age stuff to
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: get the younger kids there and wanting to be a
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: part of it too. It could, uh, it could, you
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: can miss your, your chance and something like that. So
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: can't go too gimmicky. Can't go to hocus pocus, but
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: you also got to, you know, have some, uh, some
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: class and stuff like that. So they'll figure it out.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: But as you said, if you're winning and you're in
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: the playoffs, usually people come and, you know, the last
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: couple of years, that's not been happening in there in a, uh,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: a self-proclaimed, um, rebuild or retool or whatever they called it, um, this, this,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: this winter. So yeah, that, that comes with the territory
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: when you're doing all that stuff.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: No question.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Uh, quick shift in, uh, in topics before we head
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to break. Um, Bernal got his first big league homer.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: He's up.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Crooks was sent down. Crooks didn't hit. Did a lot
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: of other things. Also had some moments where he really
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: looked like a hitter. Your biggest disappointment of the year
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: is Crooks. You said he got sent down. I wanted
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: to see him hit. I'm still a Crooks guy, and
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I think he will hit. Still a young guy. And
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of players come up and don't make that
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: quick adjustment to big league pitching. Some of the all-time
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: greats that happen to, okay? So I'm not writing anybody off.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: It was a little disappointing because I thought he'd hit
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the ground running.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: It didn't happen.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: But the Cardinals have a stockpile of catching talent now.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: They didn't move any before the deadline, which I thought.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: So if you're the Cardinals, how would you best assess
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: how to navigate all the different catchers you have and
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: the talent they bring to the table?
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that it starts to show its hand
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: a little bit as it goes on here. who can
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: handle the staff, who can handle the staff and hit
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: at the big league level. Sometimes, like you said, that
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: takes a minute. So all in all, I wouldn't write
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: anyone off yet, but I also think that every day
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: when they're there, they're going to see who can handle
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: the game planning, who can handle the starters and relievers,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: who can be ready to go if they're not playing
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: every day, who can stay in those situations. And they
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: can see, hey, This might be my everyday guy, and
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: he has to play every day for him to hit.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: So I think a lot of these guys, they come
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: up from AAA, and they're like, okay, I'm catching two
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: out of six or two out of seven. And that
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: does them no favors as a young player, especially a catcher.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: A catcher is a game of feel. You've got to
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: feel your rotation out. You've got to feel your bullpen out.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And then you also have to figure out how you're
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: going to get hits on the other side, especially in
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: the middle of catching and this heat and all that stuff.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So catching is the hardest part. and it's the hardest
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: part for young catchers to figure out right away. Very
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: rarely do a guy come up and hit and catch
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: and throw. Usually it's one or the other takes precedent,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: and then the other one comes as you go. So
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I think Jimmy's going to come as he goes here
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and gets more at-bats and gets to play more. But
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: like you said, they're going to have to make a choice,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: or they're going to waste an opportunity to get something
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: that's going to help them at the big league level,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: or they're going to let these guys not play enough
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: to where they're never developing to what they can be.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So it's going to be interesting what they do. I
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: think when you look at it, we have five catchers
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: that I think we can say, hey, that can be
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: our two every day. And you probably need one or
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: two more, and then you're going to have more come
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: as you go. So if you've got two big league
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: catchers sitting in AAA and you need something, and that
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: might be the time to spin them. So it's going
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: to be interesting what they do this winter with those
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: guys because when you have catching depth that can hit,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: that usually does well for trade assets, and you usually
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: get yourself an arm that can throw 180 innings and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: or something bat-wise that can do some damage for you,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: maybe in center field.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: For the record, one of the things that the Cardinals
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: loved about Crooks is the way he handled pitchers and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: the work he put into it. Like, they were big
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: fans of, the way he met with the staff and
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the pitchers before games and prepped. He just didn't hit enough.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: We'll see him again. Hopefully next time we see him,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: he'll start crushing baseballs. Let's take a quick break. You're
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
• 14:14
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• 15:15
  Speaker 1: So a lot of guys getting runway right now. Thomas
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Sejaisi was a guy who didn't hit any early going.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And they sent him down, and he was pretty candid
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: when I talked to him about not adjusting well to
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: being back in AAA. He said, I wasn't mad or anything,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: but it was weird. He called it a weird situation.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Took him a little time, and then he started hitting.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: They bring him back up when Mason Wynn goes on
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the IL, and he's been hitting.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: So J.C.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: 's a guy, when the Cardinals picked him up, had
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: a pedigree of hitting at every level in minor league.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Just a guy who knew how to hit. Now, a
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: couple of games in Los Angeles, three homers, which you're
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: probably not going to get from most shortstops in Major
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: League Baseball.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: What do you think the Cardinals have in Sejasi?
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I've used this term quite a bit. They've got a
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: ball player that, like you said, he hits at every level.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: But why has he hit at every level up until
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: this year? Because he played every day. um that's just
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the the gist of it uh earlier this year he
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: didn't know when his at bats were going to be
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: he didn't know where he was going to be playing
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: he didn't know where he was going to hit in
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: the lineup uh sagacy's a guy if you tell him
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: hey you're going to play you're going to play six
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: out of seven and you're going to probably bet you're
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: going to hit this spot in the lineup you're gonna
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: mess around he's going to be a 200 or 280
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: hitter close to 300 hitter and he's going to hit
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: his home runs and he's he's going to do things
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: that he needs to do when he needs to do
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: it so That's kind of the gist of most of
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: these guys, though. When you have so many young guys
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that you don't know who's who yet, people can't find
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: who they are because they don't get to play and
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: show who they are. All these guys hit well in
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the minor leagues.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Because they're in the lineup every day and they know
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: they're going to be in the lineup every day. When
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: you get to the big leagues, if you don't know
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: you're going to be in the lineup, you have a
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: tendency just to... It's hard to stay locked in as
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: much as you want to, especially when you don't have
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: the big league at-bats. to, um, you know, to rest
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: on or to use as leverage or, or ways to
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: get ready for your next at bat. So, so Casey's
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: a guy who's got to play at the big league
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: level and he's got to play every day and it'll hit. Um,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: there's really no other way to say it because he's,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: that's what he's done everywhere he's been. And I think
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: that's what we're seeing now as a guy that's saying, Oh,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: well up the middle, I'm going to play second or
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: shortstop and I'm going to hit every day. So let's
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: just go get it done. And then I think you're
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: seeing them relax and playing baseball and, uh, When you
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: do get sit down, no matter if you're mad or not,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: it's a kick in the dick, and you're not happy
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: about it, and it's hard to adjust for a minute.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And then once you get over it, then you get
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: back to playing baseball. So Thomas isn't a whiner or
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: a moper or a guy that's going to be mad,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: but it takes you a minute to swallow your pride
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: and get back after it, and he's able to do that,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and he's doing what he needs to do now.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: He's a guy that's a little different because he's a
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: guy that says, look, I'm happy to be making a
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: living doing what I love. And he would rather do
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: it at the big league level, but he's still getting
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: paid when he's in AAA.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: And he's also, as.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: You said, a ball player. So, look, second base, shortstop
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: spoken for. Third base, maybe a spot in the outfield.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: There's places you can plug him in and utilize his bat.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: There's no question about it. One of the topics we
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: talked about, I think, earlier in the week, Gordon Graceffo.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So he was the Cardinals opener. And he pitched great,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: three scoreless innings, struck out a lot of guys. I
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: think he pitched a couple of scoreless in between. And
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: then yesterday he comes in and throws three scoreless, strikes
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: out six, and seems to be getting better and better.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: And the Cardinals in their rotation now probably have two
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: spots where you need an opener, you know, a pseudo starter.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Let Persefo do that. Am I wrong?
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: No, no, if he keeps doing that, I mean. Pretty simple, right?
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Look what he's done lately and write it. I think
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: you're looking at a guy who has started his whole
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: minor league career. When he started in the big leagues,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: it hasn't gone well. But now he's got a full
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: year in the bullpen, pretty much, underspelled to gain confidence,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: to learn how to pitch at the big league level,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: to know some ins and outs. And now, as a
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: reliever going back to starting, he might have simplified it
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: enough to where the game's not moving too quick for
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: him when he is starting now. So, yeah. If you
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: have two spots open and you need bulk innings, you
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: can't just sit here and say, hey, I need you
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: to throw five tonight because he hasn't been built up
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: for that. But I like what they're doing with the
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: three inning stints. Maybe uh next month you can push
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: him to a four inning spot you know i'm saying
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: so i like what they're doing i think that they
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: need to use one of those spots in the rotation
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: to what's called a piggyback where he can go three
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: or four someone else can go three or four um
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you know that you bring up that you maybe don't
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: know if he's a starter yet or not or what
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it might look like and then use that day to
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: give your bullpen a day off too. Cause it's like,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: if you can look up at it, it's like, Hey,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: we use these two guys to cover nine innings. Um,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: that goes a long way, um, throughout a season and whatnot. So, um,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: they have a lot of things they can do a
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: lot of different arms that can cover different innings, but yeah,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Gordon needs to keep doing what he's doing. Cause he's
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: had a great year and then use this, um, little
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: runway here to show, Hey, just cause I was in
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: the bullpen all year. It doesn't mean I'm a, I'm
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: a reliever. I can be a starter and I have
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: the ability to start and go deep into games and,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Getting outs one inning at a time will help you
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: get outs for multiple innings and as a starter as
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: you get going because you don't overthink it and you
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: learn how to pitch.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Well, he was a starter in the minor leagues, and
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: as you know, if you're a starter that comes up
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: being used out of the bullpen, you're always a good
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: soldier and say, I'm glad to pitch however they want
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: me to pitch. But you want to be a starter
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: because that's how you get paid.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Is there a moment, though, for a guy like Graceffo,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: has a swagger about him. In your career where you
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: came up from the minors and something clicked where you're like,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I get it. This is where I belong in the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: big leagues. What was that moment like for you where
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: you're like, okay, my stuff plays here?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I was never one to worry about my stuff playing
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: when I got to the big leagues. I think I
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: had more confidence in my stuff than most people did.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: And I think that's just kind of just how I
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: was ingrained.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: My whole life.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I think that you get in bullpen situations where you
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: kind of get thrown into a spot and you figure
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: out who guys are from the coaching staff, if that
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: makes sense. Where it's like, hey, we're in a tough spot,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: but we don't have any arms today. So you're in.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I came up and started a few games. Didn't do terrible.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Got sent down, came back, and I think I threw
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: a game in Baltimore as a rain delay. something like
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: that in my rookie year out of the bullpen. And
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I came in and I, I think I threw three
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: innings and punched out, I think seven or eight. I
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: can't really remember the exact numbers. Um, and you're talking
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: like Vlad Guerrero and, and, uh, guys like that, that
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I was facing. And I was like, Oh, this league's
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: in trouble. I just punched it. Or, you know, I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: was like, it was like, well, I'm good now. It
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: was a weird little feeling and whatever, but it was like,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: all right, I'm good. Let's go. I don't care who's
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: in the box. And that's was kind of that, that,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: From that time on, it was you versus me. Sometimes
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: you're going to get me. Sometimes I'm going to get you.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And I didn't think anything more than that. It wasn't like,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: do I belong anymore? It was, I belong. If I
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: get beat, I get beat. Who cares? On to the
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: next hitter. All right.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Last thing before we go. That third wild card spot
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: in the National League, it's almost like nobody wants it.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Ever since San Diego got new ownership, they can't win.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Arizona is a team that has flaws, certainly Miami. And
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the Cardinals are three and a
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: half games out of that wild card. I think they
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: were like four and six over their last 10, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: they're still in the mix. So my question is, as
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a Cardinal fan, is it still realistic to say the
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Cardinals have a legit shot at grabbing that thing?
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Because no one else is. Yeah, I don't.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: It's like you said, there's no one else that's saying, hey,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: it's mine.
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: I don't.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know how else to say it.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, San.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Diego, their injuries are mounting up. Miami, they're going in
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: waves too. So, yeah, if you look at this whole group,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's a three-team race pretty much
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: between San Diego, the Marlins, and the Cardinals. That's my opinion.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: And I will say that you're definitely not out of
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: it if you're three and a half back with a
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: month to go. So, I think they've got plenty of time.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and plenty of games to be played to get there.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And neither team ahead of them or any of the
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: teams ahead of them are doing that much better than
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: them to say that they don't have a chance. The
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Diamondbacks are in that third spot right now, but they're
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: not killing it either. So it's not over yet. I've
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: seen less. We were nine back come September when we
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: won the World Series in 11.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Crazy shit's happened in the game of baseball.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And this ball club, just when you think they're done,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: they rise from the ashes every single time.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Just when you bury them.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Just when Jim buries them, they come back.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Lance, we appreciate it.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Next week, you're off. You're taking a trip with the family. Hopefully,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: we can catch up with you then. If not, safe travels,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: my friend. And that's going to do it for this
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: We'll see you next time. Hopefully, that episode won't suck.