Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / How to Scale Your Small Business with Jeff Chastain

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How to Scale Your Small Business with Jeff Chastain · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

0:01
Hi.
0:02
This is Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady host of
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the small Bizchett podcast.
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I want to serve you.
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I left off.
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Ending small business failure.
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Welcome to the small biz chat podcast with a number one small business expert, Melinda
1:04
Emerson.
1:05
Melinda's goal is to end small business failure, and she'll give you information you
1:09
need to succeed and live the life you dream of.
1:12
Now here's the small biz lady herself.
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Melinda Emerson.
1:18
Hi.
1:18
I'm Melinda Emerson, the small business lady, and welcome to the small business chat podcast.
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I want you to know that today's show is all about developing the leadership and sales
1:29
systems to scale your business.
1:32
We're also gonna be talking about wealth.
1:34
What is it?
1:35
How can you contain it, especially if you're a woman or a girl?
1:39
And, also, we want you to know that they're gonna be sharing some great insights tonight.
1:45
And if you've been thinking about these things, if you've been trying to figure out how to
1:48
scale or what you needed to put in place so that you could scale your business.
1:52
You're in the right place.
1:53
You're struggling with feast or famine sales in your business.
1:57
We've got some great information for you tonight.
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The small business chat podcast is a peer to peer interview show where we get you invaluable
2:05
information that you would otherwise have to pay big dollars for.
2:09
The mission of small business chat is to end small business failure.
2:14
Tonight's guests are business transformation coach, Jeff Chastain.
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He's gonna be talking to us about getting your business ready to scale.
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He's led multiple businesses himself.
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He's the CEO of Adventist.
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They work with growth oriented leaders and their teams to gain clarity and get the most
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out of what they want from their business as they build a plan to scale.
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For more information, you can go to Adventus dotcom.
2:40
Jeff, welcome to the small bitch chat podcast.
2:42
Hey.
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Thank you for having me on.
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So tell me about you.
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Like, you know, how did you learn all this great knowledge about how to scale a business?
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Have you done it?
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Well,
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yes.
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And that's that's kind of the story of most business owners.
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A of trial and error and and and a lot of books and other things like that, but, yeah, a lot of
3:00
trial and error through through several businesses myself.
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So it's It's definitely a little learn knowledge for sure.
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Now I know that I have read that you say that you rarely see businesses operating at their
3:13
full potential.
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When you think there's everybody's leaving money on the table, Jeff, what's going on?
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Tell me why you say that.
3:19
They and, honestly, they really are.
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I I deal with a lot of businesses that are are profitable, but the thing that most business
3:26
owners don't see, and we may touch on this later on with the the financial side is they
3:30
look at the business overall and say it's profitable, but they may have 5 product lines
3:34
here, and they don't know one of those product lines is carrying the business.
3:38
And the other 4 potentially dragging them down.
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It's like, okay.
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If you really knew the numbers, if you knew what was going on in the business down to that
3:45
level, you might say, hey.
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Let's get rid of those other 4 product lines put more resources into the one that's actually
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moving forward.
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And I've seen businesses literally do a ten times increase in top line revenue without any
3:57
change in head count or anything else just by saying, okay, let's actually operate a little
4:01
bit more efficiently here and figure out what can we do better with the same team, with the
4:05
same people, And it's it's amazing.
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Some of the turnarounds, some of the the hidden nuggets that are really inside that business.
4:11
That's really fascinating.
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I wouldn't have thought that, but they're people that you you, like, you have to convince
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them to stop doing something to make money.
4:19
That that
4:19
It really is.
4:20
It's the the old saying of, I think it's the worst phrase in English language is we've
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always done things this way.
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And a lot of times there's entrepreneurs.
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We just get those blinders on, and this is the way we do things.
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This is what's going on.
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And I I it sounds self promoting.
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I try not to try not to go that way, but it's like, to me, the the business leaders that I've
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talked to both my clients and not, have said the biggest turning point is when they bring in
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an outside coach, an outside advisor, a board of directors, something like that, somebody
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that is outside has potentially climbed the mountain before them, but understands and can
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see and ask, really, why are you doing things that way?
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Because a lot of times when we're down in the trenches, we don't see it at that point.
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I definitely have worked with businesses that are, like, at a 1,000,000, and, like, they're
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trying to get to, you know, like, 5,000,000 And one of the biggest things that I've always
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heard people say was when we hired a CFO, everything got better in the business, because
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they them in their account were meeting, you know, quarterly.
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They were getting financial statements monthly, but people don't completely know how to read
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their financial statements, and they're not tracking profitability down to the nitty gritty
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like what you're talking about.
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So I believe what you're saying.
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Now if somebody is thinking about scaling their business.
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What do you think the first thing is they really need to do?
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Well, it really kinda depends upon the business in my perspective that it's I look at it as the
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adage, the parable of of how do you build a a building a house on the rod versus house on the
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sand kind of a thing that obviously hopefully, we're on the tailing edge of this this
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pandemic, but whether it's a pandemic or whether it's a a key employee leading,
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whatever, there's gonna be storms.
5:56
There's gonna be shifts in the market, and it all comes down to the foundation of the
6:00
business.
6:00
And so does the business have a strong foundation, or is it still running effectively
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in that startup phase where the owners wrapping more duct tape around the business, wrapping
6:09
their arms around the business, trying to hold it together.
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And until that owner can say, hey.
6:14
Let's actually put the people in in place, put the systems in place, things like that to build
6:19
out that foundation.
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It's really effectively never gonna scale because honestly, the owners sitting there
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strangling the business, right, thereby trying to keep their hands wrapped around and in
6:28
everything at that point.
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So it's almost To me, it's a mindset shift of the owner and the leadership team 1st and
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foremost to say, okay.
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We don't necessarily know everything.
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We're not the experts in everything.
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We can delegate and trust our people and then help effectively grow out the company at that
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point.
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So what do you think are, like, the 4 key pillars successfully scaling a business?
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Well, I look at it in 4 different areas, like you said.
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It's looking at the overall strategy.
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So you've gotta have your your roadmap, your end goal, where are we trying to go to with the
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company?
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I look at it and say, okay.
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Again, climbing the mountain.
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What's our pinnacle?
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What's the point of the mountain that we're going to?
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And it's gotta be a a bigger picture goal that gets everybody excited about, honestly.
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It's if I forget what the saying was that if if your goal doesn't doesn't at least partially
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scare you.
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It's not big enough kind of a thing.
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So having that strategy to reach for what's what's our goal and how we're gonna get there,
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And then the second part of it, the complimentary part is the execution side.
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And it doesn't matter how great of a plan you've got if you're not executing in a a
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strong manner, never gonna reach it and then vice versa kind of a thing.
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If you're executing with no plan, you're going nowhere.
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So those two keys there And then, obviously, the third piece is the people site.
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You've gotta have the right people in the business, right, functions, the right
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processes, things like that, but it all comes down to people almost any time I'm dealing with
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a a business and there's issues going on, there's a there's a people issue somewhere at
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the at the root of that.
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And then the last side we kinda already touched on is simply the cash side.
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You've gotta understand the cash flow through the business.
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You've gotta understand your your time to close on deals.
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How how quick can we get profitable, things like that, that everything's gotta be driven on
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the numbers.
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That if you're not paying attention to the numbers, if you're just looking at, hey.
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We've got money in the bank account, that works in the early days, but it doesn't work in a a
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scaling growing business at that point.
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So it's really looking at all four of those areas together, making sure that they're all
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built up together, rather than focusing solely on one one piece or one component of the
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business, which I I see a lot of people because that's they they work in their expertise.
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They work in their lane.
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If my my lane is numbers or my lane is strategy, then that piece is almost invariably
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gonna be the stronger component.
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And the other area is the business suffer.
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So you gotta keep a an eye really on all four pillars right there.
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Make sure your foundation's supported across the board, not just on one one corner or one
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edge.
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It's amazing to me, like, how many times I feel like, you know, business problems are, like,
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not so well hidden personal problems.
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You know what I mean?
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And so and and I and I was wondering if that has been your case as well as you go into
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businesses And you because I don't know about you, but I can go into a business and be there
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about an hour and ask enough people questions, and I can tell you what's wrong.
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Usually, usually, on my first day, my first visit.
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And so and a lot of times, you'd come into businesses sometimes that are a cultural
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personality of the business owner.
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And and so I was wondering how often are you kind of seeing some of those things.
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Oh, it's it's it's almost every time.
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It's it's the ones the the big red flags to me always are sitting down in front of the
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leadership team, and you ask one of the other leaders, a question, and their first glance is
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at the CEO.
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Okay.
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Can I really answer this?
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Can I really say what's what's going on?
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It's like, okay.
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There's there's a first problem right there is we've everything again is driven off of that
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CEO, that visionary, which in some respects, it's hey.
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They're the big ID the person, but at the same time, you gotta be able to have the full team
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environment right there in order to grow it.
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That's one of the that's where I see.
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Okay.
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That's red flag.
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You're not growing right there until we can separate some people here and actually have
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some independent minds and some independent ideas.
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Right.
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So what do you feel like?
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Or in order to have an effective sort of like business vision, business leaders have to make
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that vision actionable.
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I almost feel like You you know how everybody's website says they're gonna save you time and
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money.
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Like, that's kinda how I feel about business vision.
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Right?
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I mean, it's like, my vision is, you know, it's like it's like these.
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It's almost one of the things that super makes me crazy is when people talk about annual
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revenues.
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Like, we're gonna make 2,300,000 this year.
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You know what?
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I don't care about that.
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What I wanna know is how much money did you have to make this week?
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And did you make it?
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And if you didn't, do you know why?
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And what are you gonna do next week?
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To make up for the revenue you didn't make this week.
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That is the conversation I have with people.
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I don't let people tell me, oh, we're gonna make $50,000 as much or or, you know, Okay.
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Well, where where is that coming from?
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Is that just, you know, some aspiration that you just you know, I mean, so I try just I add
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you that question knowing my own sarcastic self is on my head is going, yeah.
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Right?
11:06
I can't wait to hear this answer.
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Right?
11:07
Because I'm always, like, business vision.
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Let me take out my mini violin for that.
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So so tell me what does that say to you?
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And what do you how do you work that, you know, with the people that you work with?
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Yeah.
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To me, vision, honestly, is something separate.
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It's it's to me, it's the the story of JFK back when we were pre tripped to the the moon.
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And he's walking through touring NASA in the middle of the night kind of a thing late after
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hours comes across to janitor in the hallway, and the janitor's cleaning the floor kind of a
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thing.
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But just being friendly, asking, hey.
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What's your name?
11:38
What do you do here?
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And the janitor instead of saying, yes, I'm cleaning the floor or, yes, I'm cleaning up
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after the The idiot that spilled his coffee through here last night says I'm helping put a
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man on the moon.
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And that's the vision.
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That's the say of, okay.
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What are we gonna be on the as a company to say, okay.
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What's our moonshot goal?
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What's our long term goal there?
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And getting the entire team bought into that, that he's not sitting here looking at, yeah,
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I'm a $10 an hour janitor cleaning the floors here after hours.
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And, oh, wait a minute.
12:07
Somebody else is gonna go pay me $12.
12:09
I'm jumping over there.
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He's got a much bigger picture buy in to say, yes.
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I'm part of something bigger.
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And that having that with your team pulls everybody in the same direction and say, okay.
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We're actually gonna pull together and work towards this.
12:21
We've got more buy in than just saying, it's another job.
12:24
Because if it's just a job, honestly, that's corporate America.
12:27
That's not everybody's there just for it's a paycheck.
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It's it's a 9 to 5 Why am I here kind of a thing?
12:33
It's health benefits.
12:34
Right.
12:34
Yeah.
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We we don't have that luxury in in small to midsize business.
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We've gotta have people bought into this and really pulling that way And to me, that's the
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vision that says, okay.
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Who are we as a company, our culture?
12:46
Where are we going?
12:47
What's our big moonshot goal and how are we gonna get there?
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Then we take what you're talking about and say, okay.
12:52
From the execution standpoint, we've got this big elephant goal out here at 10 to 15 years.
12:58
How do we are we gonna eat that elephant?
12:59
That's the point we start backing it down and saying, okay.
13:02
One bite of time.
13:03
What's your bite this week that's gonna get us close are there and we didn't make our buy it.
13:07
We didn't get there.
13:08
Okay.
13:08
How are we gonna make it up?
13:09
But it's getting down to that point of execution to say, okay.
13:12
One bite at a time.
13:13
How are we going to get there, but your vision's gotta be the big picture to say, okay.
13:17
What do you what's your team excited about?
13:19
Why why are we on this journey?
13:20
Why are we out there Were we just to be another CPA firm, another IT firm, or is there
13:26
something bigger in mind that we're pick pick your goal kind of a thing And that's that's
13:30
really where I work with clients to say, hey.
13:32
We gotta get something bigger here than just being another CPA firm here.
13:36
But why is your team wanna come work for just an CPA firm here.
13:40
We've gotta get something bigger here that they really buy into and they really feel a part of
13:44
at that point and wanna work towards.
13:46
Sounds good.
13:47
Sounds good.
13:48
You are watching the small biz chat podcast.
13:50
I'm Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady.
13:53
Stay with us.
13:53
We're gonna talk more about how to position your leadership to scale your business when we
13:58
come right back.
13:59
Stay with us.
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Welcome back to the small bitch tech podcast.
15:32
I am here with my guest, growth expert, Jeff Chastain, and we're talking about how to boost
15:37
your leadership to scale your small business.
15:40
Alright, Jeff.
15:41
So let's talk about, you know, okay.
15:43
I wanna scale my business.
15:45
It costs money make money.
15:46
Right?
15:47
Where where are you gonna find this money and and and how what kind of money do you need to
15:51
be thinking about even when you wanna make investments in your business to scale?
15:56
Oh, it definitely, the the saying or whatever is it takes money to make money kind of a
16:00
thing.
16:00
And it definitely has some truth to it, but most of time as business owners or as people in
16:05
business, we're looking at that and saying, well, that means I need to go get it a loaner.
16:08
That means that we need to go get investments, something like that.
16:11
But kinda going back to what we talked about before, I I've yet to really run into a
16:16
business that was operating at its true potential kind of a thing that there's there's
16:20
almost certainly money in terms of profitability, things like that, efficiencies,
16:24
etcetera, in the business already that you can maximize right there to say, okay.
16:29
Let's Again, get more profitable, get more efficient with our team, making sure
16:33
everybody's pulling the same direction there.
16:35
We can get a lot more accomplished just with the same resources without saying, hey.
16:38
We're gonna go double counter something like that.
16:41
And then really the other side of it these days is there's really been a, to me, a big shift in
16:46
the market with a lot of the fractional and virtual kind of expertise out there that you
16:50
don't have to go pay a $120,000 to bring in a CFO, especially at a small business, you
16:56
honestly don't even need a full time CFO or something like that.
16:59
You can go find a a fractional person that's just there for 1 day a week or something like
17:04
that.
17:04
Provides you the expertise that they've got, but still at a much smaller fractional kind of
17:09
cost right there.
17:09
So to me, the the ability to go build a business these days with resources with virtual
17:15
kind of, it's called virtual or referred to it as virtual, but still the the remote workers
17:20
kind of a thing.
17:20
I was dealing talking with a staffing firm earlier, actually just today, that is based
17:24
specifically for the legal industry of pulling in remote work, especially these days since
17:28
everybody's used to doing Zoom work right now.
17:31
You can basically it really doesn't matter as to, okay, is your marketing rep over here on
17:36
the the west coast versus you're on the east coast, or are they down in Central America kind
17:39
of a thing and working at honestly a much less pay scale right there just because of their
17:44
locale.
17:44
And there's a lot of different resources right there that you can scale without having to have
17:48
the really big cost there.
17:50
Well, let's talk about staffing because I do think that's one of the things that comes up.
17:54
Sometimes you you have your team you started with, but then you can outgrow your team.
17:59
Right?
18:00
And so how is it that you sort of, like, start looking at your staff and then sort of looking
18:05
at what you might need to outsource strategically to grow?
18:09
Yeah.
18:09
It's definitely a case that as the business grows, you you've I've I've seen a lot of
18:13
businesses outgrow their staff.
18:15
Like you said, it's the it's the person that was, yeah, all we gotta do is handle the books.
18:19
We gotta keep quick books up to date.
18:20
No big deal kind of a thing.
18:21
And now all of a sudden, we're handling full accounts receivable for a 100 clients.
18:26
And it just gets literally beyond them at that point.
18:28
So it's it's definitely a case as you continue to grow to sit there and honestly reevaluate
18:33
the roles and figure out okay, do we have, use a system called top grading that's sitting
18:38
there looking at each role to say, okay, what are the different responsibilities for this
18:42
role, having them to find out, having really measurables from a both a a culture standpoint
18:48
as well as a actual skills kind of fit to say, okay.
18:51
Are you still meeting these goals and having quarterly conversations or so at that point to
18:55
be able to realize and say, because a lot of times those kind of people that it's it's the
19:00
the friend that's doing your books or whatever for you.
19:02
They're they're wishing you would let them out of that job that they they've really realized
19:06
themselves that this is way beyond them, but they feel indebted to you to say, hey.
19:11
Well, we're gonna keep doing this.
19:12
And having that conversation, having that realization there to say, yeah, I really am way
19:16
over my head here.
19:17
Let's let's go look for something else is it it's a tough conversation, but a lot of times
19:23
if you can put the metrics and everything behind it to realize having a quantifiable
19:27
conversation that, okay.
19:29
We're not getting the annual reports or we're not getting the the monthly reports on time,
19:33
what what's going on, or we're not meeting our our company values of being open and honest all
19:39
the time.
19:39
What's going on?
19:40
And it gives you that opportunity to have those conversations better at that point, honestly,
19:44
yeah, you gotta move some people around or potentially re replace some people, but it's so
19:49
many times I deal with business that just doesn't they're not clear.
19:52
They don't have the clarity.
19:53
That's find clarity is one of my biggest pieces right there.
19:55
It's like you just don't understand what's going on in the business because you don't have
19:58
the numbers.
19:59
You don't have the data.
20:00
You don't have the metrics there.
20:01
And, therefore, it just causes stress confusion really across the board at that point.
20:06
Mhmm.
20:07
Well, this is my question for you, Jim.
20:09
A few years ago, I had the opportunity to speak in South by Southwest.
20:13
And one of the other speakers down there was Mark Cuban, and and it was interesting because
20:17
that was the first time I ever saw him interviewed when it wasn't like this high
20:21
pressure shark tank, like, kind of situation.
20:23
He answered the question, and he said that there are no shortcuts in scaling a business.
20:30
And I was wondering what what your thoughts are on that.
20:32
I don't know that I would necessarily call it a shortcut.
20:35
I was gonna say I I would disagree because a lot of times I'll talk with clients or business
20:39
owners, like, say, okay.
20:40
Do you wanna go the fast route, or do you wanna go the slow route?
20:43
Because most business owners technically can figure this all out themselves.
20:47
Today, there's to me, it's almost information overload.
20:50
There's so much information out there.
20:51
The information, the tools are out there.
20:53
Do you wanna spend the time?
20:54
Do you wanna spend the money?
20:56
Do you wanna spend the trial and error to go figure it out all yourself, which you probably
21:00
can do, or Do you get the outside resources?
21:03
Do you bring in the coach?
21:04
Do you bring in the fractional CFO?
21:06
Do you bring in the the board of directors kind of a thing?
21:09
And honestly speed that up quite a bit because they're gonna be the ones that says, hey.
21:13
I've been down this path.
21:14
Why are you doing that?
21:15
Why are you making this decision?
21:17
Have you looked at this X Y Z here?
21:19
They're gonna help you move it a lot faster.
21:21
So whether you call that a shortcut or not, there are definitely ways to leverage people
21:26
that have been there before you that have gone that guide that's been up that path before you
21:30
and make it be a lot smoother, a lot faster, a lot less painful journey than figuring out
21:34
yourself, but I don't know whether you call that a shortcut or not.
21:38
Well, no.
21:39
I mean, I think it's perspective.
21:40
Right?
21:40
So I think that when you build something from the ground and it takes you X number of years
21:45
to scale it will feel like, you know, every every inch was a mile.
21:49
Right?
21:50
I do think that we've gotten into this society, especially it's, everybody wants to be a boss,
21:54
right, until they actually have to be one.
21:56
And so because we're we're into this mentality of Getrich, everybody can be a boss, you know,
22:04
people listening to Grant Cardo, all these people, and I'm like, stop listening to those
22:08
people, please.
22:08
Anyway, so, you know, There Tim Ferris's book was a lie.
22:13
I'm tired of telling people that, you know, like, the 4 hour work week, he didn't start out
22:17
working 4 hours a week.
22:19
Yeah.
22:19
So, Aylet, I I digress, but my point simply is is that I worry about just shortcut and the
22:26
word business being in the same sentence.
22:28
Right?
22:28
I do think that you can go faster with help than you can alone.
22:33
Right?
22:33
Sure.
22:33
We can all figure it out.
22:34
We can order all the books off of Amazon or listen to a mall or an article or whatever.
22:38
But why do that?
22:39
I mean, I think we should do some of that, but I do think that we need to make sure that we
22:45
are being honest you know, about what we can handle and what we can't.
22:51
And the first person we have to be honest about being above water with skill set is the
22:55
business owner.
22:56
Like, you gotta be able to be honest with yourself about whether or not you're the person
23:01
to lead a business $10,000,000 in revenue versus $1,000,000 in revenue.
23:06
Like, are you ready to go there?
23:08
And and I and I think that kinda comes it comes back to all of that.
23:11
I definitely agree with it.
23:12
I think it's really the the key point of, like I said, moving to that next level.
23:16
Are you are you willing to step back?
23:17
Because the reality is the systems and tools that got you to $1,000,000 business or a
23:22
$5,000,000 business are not gonna take you to a 10 or a 50 at that point.
23:26
You've got to change.
23:27
You've gotta grow.
23:28
And whether that's completely stepping back for another CEO or whether that's simply saying
23:32
I've gotta bring smarter resources, honestly, around me.
23:36
It's it's the saying of you're the smartest one in the room, you're in the wrong room kind of a
23:39
thing there.
23:40
And that's true with with business right there.
23:41
You you can't be CEO shouldn't be the smartest person in the room.
23:44
Now they've got their lane of expertise, but they should constantly be putting additional
23:49
resources, additional expertise around them.
23:51
Definitely.
23:52
Definitely.
23:52
Well, Thank you so much, Jeff.
23:54
That was such great insight.
23:56
What is your favorite podcast?
23:59
Oh, boy.
23:59
There's I've got so many on there.
24:01
Business made simple.
24:02
Just talking about the structures and the capabilities that need to go build building a
24:06
business and they tie it into a it's an it's an airplane metaphor that they're using really
24:10
really great visual on it, but, yeah, just a a fun podcast.
24:12
A lot of just lively talk right there with their group, but I think they're they're pretty
24:16
much brand new this year bringing that one out.
24:18
Okay.
24:19
Alright, Jeff.
24:19
What is your favorite business app?
24:21
1, it's it's only sort of business app, but it's called pocket cast.
24:24
It's actually a a fairly new app just an aggregator, really, for a bunch of different
24:29
podcasts, but it brings in the podcast for you, queues them all up for you.
24:32
It shows you you've got new episodes up to listen to it.
24:34
It's just it goes back to productivity side of a time saver there just to keep track of of all
24:39
the different podcasts you wanna listen to and make sure you're up on the latest ones there.
24:42
Alright.
24:42
So what is it called again, Jim?
24:44
Pocket Cas, c a s t s.
24:47
Oh, Pocket Cas.
24:48
Okay.
24:48
Cause I thought you said Pocket app, and I'm like, they Okay.
24:52
Got it.
24:52
Well, got it.
24:53
It's closed.
24:53
That's why she worried me there, but, no, it's different.
24:58
Well, next question for you is Jeff, what is your favorite old school marketing tip?
25:03
No.
25:03
I would say it's more.
25:04
It's almost an extension off of Sherice, but it's more the conversation.
25:07
Can you have that conversation?
25:09
It's all about conversations of just being with them, being in their life, understanding what's
25:14
going on, not coming out with a direct hard sales pitch.
25:16
And so it's it's literally a conversation about business, about life, whatever, and just having
25:21
those conversations, having real relationships there rather than constantly being in the sales
25:25
mode.
25:26
Right.
25:26
So just calling somebody and just ask them how they're doing versus, like, the hardcore sale.
25:32
My my favorite old school marketing was actually handwritten letters.
25:35
I love sending handwritten notes.
25:37
That's my favorite.
25:38
Alright.
25:39
Last question.
25:40
Best business book you ever read.
25:42
Go.
25:43
Oh, I've got a whole bookshelf for.
25:45
I don't know about picking a best one, but the the one I'm reading right now, the newest one
25:49
I've got is called 212.
25:50
It's the the degrees of change of the the degree is what it is.
25:54
And it's the idea that, okay, the difference between a pot of warm water and a pot of
25:58
boiling water and steam that can go power out of locomotive is simply one degree of change
26:02
one degree of action.
26:04
So you don't have to go reinvent the world.
26:05
It's literally one degree change can make all the difference there between something that
26:10
works and something that doesn't work.
26:12
Listen.
26:12
Thank you guys so much for being my guest tonight on the small business chat podcast, and
26:16
thank you all for joining me for this episode of the small chat podcast.
26:20
For more information about how to start and grow a successful small business, head over to
26:25
succeed as your own boss.com, or you can check out one of my brand new courses on small biz
26:30
lady university.
26:32
Thank you all.
26:32
The mission of small biz chat is to end small business failure and I'll leave you with this.
26:37
You never lose in business.
26:38
Either you win or you've learned.
26:41
Good night, everybody.
26:43
Thank you for listening to the small biz chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
26:48
For more resources and small business success strategies visit succeed as your own boss.com.
26:54
Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcast and join us next Wednesday.