Latest / Chasing Baseball Dreams / 20: Lou Collier | Reclassing, Playing Up & What Baseball Parents Get Wrong

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20: Lou Collier | Reclassing, Playing Up & What Baseball Parents Get Wrong · Chasing Baseball Dreams

• Lou Collier: You know, what what fun is it if he's bigger, stronger, faster than his competition? That's not what you're getting ready to see at the next level. So for me it's like you you you're you're handicapping the kid. Bobby Minor: And welcome to the Chasing Baseball Dreams Podcast. Today I've got former Major Leaguer Lou Collier joining me. Lou spent eight seasons in the big leagues with the Pirates, the Brewers, the Expos. You don't hear the Expos too much anymore. Red Sox, Phillies. He also served as the first base coach for Team USA in the 2023 World Baseball Classic. And since his baseball career has ended, he stayed heavily involved in developing young players through Major League Baseball programs like the Dream Series. Which is where I met Lou originally. the breakthrough series, the program. But there's another side of Lou's baseball experience that I really want to get into today. He's also Cam Collier's dad. that might I don't know if that's gonna make you more famous or not, Lou, but Cam was originally in the 2023 draft class, and instead of staying in high school, he graduated early at 17, reclassified into the 2022 class, and then went to Chipotle Junior College. Played against older competition and was eventually selected 18th overall by the Cincinnati Reds. And a lot of parents can look at that and look at how it turned out and say, well, obviously that was the right decision, but what we're gonna get into today, I want to actually go back before the outcome. You know, what did what did you see, Lou, that told you that Cam was ready? Why did you choose that path? and what parents can learn at that without looking at Cam's story and thinking that their son needs to do the same thing. So Lou, thank you so much for joining me on the Chasin Baseball Dreams podcast. Lou Collier: Thanks for having me. It's good to see you again, man. Bobby Minor: Yeah, I know it's been been a few years. Lou Collier: yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like I like what you're doing, man. It's it's great for baseball and a lot of good insight to parents and players that need it. So thanks for having me. Bobby Minor: I I really appreciate it. And you you you're doing and been doing a lot of good for for youth baseball as well with all of your involvement in again like the dream series, breakthrough series, just everything that you're doing there in Georgia. so we'll kind of just jump right into it. okay, you've seen the game from just about every angle. I mean you played in the majors, you've coached, developed high level players, and then you went through it all as Cam's dad. So when Cam was coming up how did you know when he needed Lou Collier, the baseball guy, and when you just needed his dad? Lou Collier: Yeah, that was that was tough for me. 'cause I was always on on grind mode. I was always on coach, coach, coach mode and development and you know, you have to do things this way. Kinda like a you know, a militant. so I learned I grew as he grew. you know, I wanted him to do things properly and do things the right way and play the game and respect it. And so those were the things that I focused on with him first of all, you know, fundamentally sound and we do things properly and do it the right way. So, you know, maybe I I might have been a little too hard on him when he was younger. Just just making sure that he he he went about his business the right way. But as he grew and you know and matured, you know, I I bagged off little by little. So it was it was I I'm not gonna lie, it was difficult for me to turn the two off. When we was on the field it was always coach. It was always We gotta do things like this. And, you know, once we got off the field was I turned into dad. I turned to the dad. So it was it it's it wasn't easy, I'm gonna be honest. Bobby Minor: No, no, that's good and thanks for sharing that. So okay, what would you say then what would you say to the dad out there right now that doesn't have the baseball background that you have, that doesn't have that experience, that has, you know, ten, eleven, twelve year old that that he thinks is really good, what would you say to that dad out there that about how he can manage that and looking back like things that you might have done differently? Lou Collier: Yeah, I would just tell him, hey, you know, y if your son's showing up every day with good energy, he loves to be at the field, he loves to put the work in, he's listening. He's gonna get it. You know, if he's performing on the field, even if it's good or bad, and he's giving a hundred percent effort, that mean he's trying. you know, as I as I grew older and watched Cam develop, I noticed that things that I might have talked about three, four, six months ago, I would see it happen. And I will I would I would think to myself like, Man, he was listening. He was listening. He was, you know, he he heard me. And I had I didn't have to, you know, be on him so tough. So, I would say, man, if you have a young athlete and he loves showing up and he enjoys the grind. Even sometimes he's a he's a little bit rebellious. Just hang in there, he's listening, man. He's he loves it, he has to process it, he has to mature, and once he mature, you'll see all those things that you talked about. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's good, that's good. So I really I wanna get into the decision that you guys made with Cam because when people hear reclass now, they you know they usually think about getting older and playing against younger kids because that's really what it what you know what we see a lot. I think it's crazy like, you know, in perfect game when you see kids that are almost 14 and a half playing 13 U. But you went the other direction. So Cam graduated early at 17, went to junior college, didn't just go to any junior college, went to one of the, you know, toughest junior college programs in the country. So what were you what were you seeing in him that made you believe that that that's what he was ready for? And that was the direction that y'all needed to take. Lou Collier: Well, that was a difficult decision. You know, that was a decision that I made based off getting information from you know, scouts that had been in the game, you know, twenty plus years, major leaguers, you know, you know, letting me know and giving me information on what they seen to him. And obviously me and me and my wife you know, deciding to to go that route. So it was a lot of different people that we we we talked to and we utilize different resources to come with that decision. But, you know, from the age of so from I'ma say from when Cam first started playing baseball. He he always played two or three years ahead. He always did it. And so, you know, all the way through up until well, I can't even say high school because in high school he's a freshman on varsity. So he always played a couple years ahead. And even though he he might not have been the best player on those teams, but he was always holding his own. And I did that for a reason because I understood how difficult the game was. didn't want him to because we was working every day and working on proper things, he was gonna be ahead of guys his age and ahead of guys with less of talent. So for me in my mind, I wanted him to always be able to have to fight. Have to fight and fight to get on the field, fight to play the position he wanted to play in. You know, play against little older, stronger guys so that the things that we did talk about off the field when we worked on things, he would focus more because he knew he had to go against guys that little bit big and strong. He didn't quite understand it at at the time, but that was my thinking. so so fast forward, you know, once we got into we moved from Chicago, when he was graduating eighth grade. Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: You know, simply because Chicago w it was difficult, you know, to get outside and train and Bobby Minor: Really? Lou Collier: and do the things that he needed to do to develop. so we moved down to Georgia, which is a hot bed for baseball. A lot of talented players. you know, we and and I can throw him in the mix and with those guys and kind of see where he was at, to get a true read. And we both noticed that he was right there, but he might have been, you know, a a step or two behind. And so he realized that and I realized that and then we went to work. So you know, coming to Georgia was a really great measuring stick to be around really talented players, players that was, you know, real well respected and and very good at a young age. And so that allowed me to s kind of see and gauge where he was at and do the things that we needed to do to to, you know, level up his his skill set and work ethic and different things like that. So as we did that and again he played up, you know, you know, a year ahead and he was just as good a or better than all guys. And so Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: as we continue to move along and just watch and and kinda you know I had a had a had the benefit of seeing players from all over the country too, you know, you know, being in the MLB developers program. So Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: I seen Hunter Greens and and and players on that caliber. Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: when they was at the sam you know, the age that he was at the time. So I had a good gauge to see like, okay, where is he at compared to this? Or this guy that went in the first round compared to that. So kinda used that and use my You know, my my s my scouting ability. I scouted, you know, with the Royals part time for twelve years too, so I had I had that in my back pocket. Bobby Minor: Mm. Lou Collier: And I was always the dad that that that really told the truth. I I wasn't I never looked at it I never looked at him. I looked at him for who he was, what I saw. And and I and I I really, you know, I I gave a true honest opinion based off what I saw. And then I utilized the guys around me. You know, a lot of times big leagues, man, big leagues will not sugarcoat. They will not lie to Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: you. They're gonna tell you, hey, he need to work on this, this and that. Hey, I don't see it. But you know, most of the guys, you know, it was a positive feedback. And so, you know, as we went on Seen them with the guys a year older, Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: playing against those guys just as good or better, that's when we made the decision. Bobby Minor: No, that's good stuff, man. And I want to add, like, obviously Cam is an amazing baseball player, but he's just a good dude also as a person. He's a he's a good human being. I know, you know, my son Julian interacted with him some at the Dream Series when he was there and had conversations with him. And you know, Cam's just he's just an all-around good dude. So y'all, y'all, in my opinion, you did it right, not only on the baseball field, but also the off the baseball field as well. So Alright, so let's take the draft take the draft completely out of it for a second. So like obviously when you made that decision, you had had no idea he was gonna ultimately be the eighteenth overall pick. So I I know why you did it. What would have told you that you got the decision wrong? Lou Collier: I think, you know, for me w it wasn't about the skill set, right? 'Cause you know, you're gonna continue to learn, the game is gonna teach you things and and if you have a process, guys are gonna grow, right? If he's in the right environment. But I think, you know, getting it wrong, I think, you know, once he went to college, if he was, you know, the immaturity level, if he just started, you know, shutting down or, you know, just not being focused then you know I would have felt like you know we we we maybe jumped the gun. We jumped the gun. but, you know, we had we had, you know, contingency plans in place. You know, I was, you know, I would go down there and stay with him. His mom would struggle through, his advisor would. So we kind of had people around him to keep him focused, because we knew he was young. He was young, going into college, this was something new. It was difficult. It w it it wasn't an easy thing. But for me, Being a professional, being a big leader is not an easy thing. So it's it's it's it's a process, but it's a hump that you gotta get over. And we felt like with the support system and and and his skill set and and I f we felt like he was mature enough to go and play baseball and and go take care of his classes in that environment. And if if you've ever been down to Chipotle, there's not much to do but baseball, work out, and go home. Bobby Minor: Yeah. No, I tell I I think it might have been when I was I was interviewing Nico Goodrum, but we were talking about this and I was talking about like I know like younger players, everybody you know, when they're eleven and twelve, everybody dreams of playing at, you know, Texas A and Georgia, wherever. But they don't realize that when you know because to me K Ham is like he's like you know top one percent of one percent so like I'm talking to the you know to the majority of the players out there that are not gonna be a first round draft pick out of high out well literally out of high school but they don't realize that for them to pursue their dream of really playing in college like Julian he was a red shirt sophomore last year he's playing at a D2 school now but like he's played at in Hillsboro Texas Gainesville Texas Ridgecrest California out in the middle of nowhere now he's playing in Alpine Texas The nearest Walmart is like 60 miles away, you know? And like they they don't I don't think they realize that, you know, you gotta get rid of that D1 or bus mentality because for a majority of players out there, the best path for them to playing beyond high school is gonna be, you know, is gonna be somewhere in the middle of nowhere where there's nothing to do but literally go to class, work out, and play baseball. Lou Collier: That's true. That's true. that's that's what the My Leagues are. You're in the middle of nowhere and Bobby Minor: Yeah. Yeah. Lou Collier: hey, you you gotta fall in love with the the process and you gotta you gotta be in love with baseball. Or it's not gonna work. Bobby Minor: Yeah, for sure. I wanna I wanna switch gears for just a second because I know Cam Cam's a corner infielder. You were when you played in the majors, I know you were primary left side of the infield, infielder, primary shortstop. I know you played a little bit of outfield. What would you what would you say to the ten, eleven, twelve year old African American ball player out there right now that's a shortstop? He wants to be the next Tim Anderson. what would you say to him when Because I mean, I know you've seen it, man, where you got a kid like that that can play. He's fast. Coaches always want to put him in center field. what what would you say to that to that play that young player out right now or to his parents that, hey, if you want to stick in the infield, if you wanna be, you know, you wanna be on that left side of the infield or in the middle, these are the things you really need to focus on. Lou Collier: Yeah, so fundamentals is the key. you know, fielding the ball properly, proper throwing mechanics, throwing with accuracy, first step quickness, you know, you know, you know, throwing with balance and and different things. So for me, being fundamentally sound is the key. Right. So you can build off a foundation always. And if if at the next level he's gonna be a short stop, he'll have the fundamentals. He'll once the game speeds up, he'll be able to speed up with it. with if he's just playing off athleticism, the game is gonna pass him by because it's it's too many s minute details that you have to have as a middle infielder to stay there. Too many things that's going on. So I would say learn the fundamentals, you know, really you know, be secure in what you can do and work on your you know, make sure you know your strengths but also work on your weaknesses. you know, get with somebody who can really teach and develop that. And you Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: know, and keep going. And I you know what what else I I wouldn't I mean, I think at a younger age, man, they should play a lot of different positions too. Not just one. Because once you understand them all, you c you know, you can you y you know you you really know your strengths and weaknesses and and then you know what each player needs to do and what's what's the priority for each player. So I I would Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: I would that would be my my main message to the parents. Bobby Minor: That's good stuff. And you know, back to playing multiple positions. just at the college level, Julian, his first year, he was a shortstop. That's what he got recruited as. Second year was at a different school, played second base. Last year was at a JUCO in California, played third base. And then this year now, so far in the fall, he's played center field. You know, and so you just gotta I yeah, versatility, I I think thinking Being a super utility is just gonna open a lot more doors for you, especially at the D1 level. so okay, you played you played infield in the majors for eight years, so you obviously I mean, you know, can play at the highest level, but expect through the Dream Series, I know you've gotten to work alongside Ron Washington, who is like an infield guru. how much of you how much how much have you learned from Wash just as an adult that things that you're just like mind blown by, like, Man, I never even knew this. You know, if I knew this kind of stuff in my career, you know, maybe it would have been a twelve year career. Lou Collier: definitely. Wash is a technician and he'll let you know it. He's he's the he's the he's the scientist. You know, it's not just about taking ground balls. It's it's about the process, it's about posture, it's about glove positioning, it's about you know, clean actions. and then it's it's about getting after it every single day. Every single day. And so when I had a chance to work with him, you know, you know, five, six days down in the dream series, man, that took my coaching and the things that I you know, I knew, it confirmed it and then it helped me with things that I didn't know. It took me to another level. And, you know, with Wash is it's he he he's gonna take you where you at w you know, where you at and not gonna change you, but he's gonna he's gonna let you know the absolutes. These things have to happen in order for you to be a you know, above average infielder. And so, you know, and then, you know, just little things that he sees that he can correct that, you know, a lot of guys may miss. So for me, you know, that was a master class in in coaching and fielding, and I am, man, forever grateful for being able to spend that time with him. Bobby Minor: Doubt. I think the thing that and I loved him when he was the manager of the Rangers, but I think what impressed me the most at the Dream Series was, you know, whatever time y'all would get out get out there for early work. Man, I don't know, 7:30, 8 o'clock in the morning, and Wash would be the first one on the field, and he would be the most enthusiastic. Like, you know what I mean? Like he wasn't. You could definitely tell like he wasn't just mailing it in. Like it wasn't just something he was doing. It's something he's very passionate about. And it came through in everything that he did. And I was just like, wow, like even at at this stage of his career, just his passion and his enthusias enthusiasm for what he's doing and his opportunity to impact, you know, the next generation of ball players was just amazing. So yeah. So you've obviously you've been around a lot of really, really good players through the Dream Series, Breakthrough Series, the program. I mean, that's that's like a extremely long list of players that you've seen. so when you see like a 14, 15, 16-year-old who really needs to be challenged more, needs to be in a tougher baseball environment, what are you seeing? And how how can you tell a parent? that you know a dad that his son is ready for that instead of just looking around and doing what everybody else is, you know, what everybody else is doing and taking the easy path. Lou Collier: Yeah, I mean I mean once you see the talent, you see the you see the tools first of all, you see the athleticism, you know, and you see how the body works and you get around the kid and kinda, you know, get a feel for his you know, his character and his makeup, that's when you you know that hey man, this kid needs to be in a in you know, a little better environment. little more structure, a little better coaching. than the traditional travel ball, let's go play, let's win this tournament, I'm with my friends. You know, to to be a pro, man, you got it's it's a lonely road. you know, your friends, they may o may not all, you know, have the same, you know, desires to do that or work ethic or or willing to sacrifice. So, you know, when you see a kid with talent, you know, with that type of talent and type of work ethic and and IQ, that's for me. When I see that it's like, okay, this this kid needs to be on a little different path. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's good. Okay, I know you said when when Cam was younger you were I mean, you were a lot harder on him, you know, just you know, younger and then as as he matured and you s and you backed off. I'm a I tell parents all the time, like, you're gonna reach a point to where Your son has got to want it more than you. He's got to love it more than you. You can't be driving the bus on everything. At what age, at what age would you tell a parent, like just keeping it a hundred percent real with them, like, look, I know your son is I know your son says that he wants to play baseball beyond high school, but but you're the one that's you're the one that's driving everything. He may not want it as much as you think that he does. At what age would you say, like, look, if your kid's not the one taking all the initiative, This is this is a red flag. Lou Collier: Yeah, see that's that's a little tricky. It's a little tricky and and here's why. a lot of time when the kids are younger, you know, not every kid wanna get up and run and lift or you know, whatever it may be, train. So they're gonna fight it. You know, they're gonna fight it at those young ages, you know, twelve, I'm gonna say maybe all the way up to about fifteen. but I think around, you know, sixteen, seventeen years old, the kids should have some type of initiative like, hey man, I really want do this. And it shouldn't still be a fight to do the things that he knows at that point that he needs to do to in in order to improve, to match what he's saying out of his mouth. I wanna go D one or I wanna be a pro. I think, you know, the parent still has to kinda keep keep him in the middle of the road, you know, 'cause, you know, young young young boys get distracted. know, you got a lot of distractions. A lot of things that look like they're fun and and different things like that. And I just just think that n they're not mature enough to really be locked into one thing. And when you do find that, you got you something special. You got a young kid, sixteen, seventeen years old, that's like, hey, this is what I'm on. You got you something special. But I do think that once a parent sees talent, you know, and sees the enthusiasm think they should keep him in the middle of the road. So for me I I I'd say about sixteen, seventeen years old, he should be kinda locked in to what what he wants to do. Bobby Minor: Okay. that's good stuff there. I want to s I want to switch gears for just a second. I want to talk I want I do want to talk about your baseball journey, okay? like how old were you when you started playing baseball? Who introduced you to the game? How did you fall in love with it? What did what did it look like for you growing up? Lou Collier: Yeah, I started playing at a young age too, seven, eight years old. my dad was a a fanatic. He loved all sports. he was really a football guy and I I broke his heart when I I wanted to play baseball. I told him I think I was probably about eight, nine years old. Him him and him and my mom kinda set me down. Hey, what you wanna do? You wanna football, you wanna play football, you wanna play baseball? And I told him I wanna be a baseball player. And so he you know, he was a little bit upset and my mom was surprised, but you know, he he supported it. So he he's the one who who introduced me to the game and and I you know, I I I fell in love with it. You know, baseball was the sport that I just was a little bit better than everybody that I was around from a younger age. I was just a little bit better than them, you know. you know, obviously once I moved, you know, to higher levels and got to high school, you know, we had some older boys older guys that was bigger and stronger, but I can hold my own, you know, and just fell in love with the game. from the south side of Chicago, so we didn't have We didn't have any resources. We you know, Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: we just went out there and played for the love of the game. And there was guys that, you know, came before me that that I knew about. You know, K Kirby Pucky was from Chicago, you know. Bobby Minor: wow. Yeah. Lou Collier: And a lot of lotta, you know, guys, you know, that that made it to the to the major leagues, come out the inner city and things like that. So you hear about these things and, you know, when I was coming up it was guys being drafted and stuff like that. And so that's what opened my eyes to like, man, it's a possibility that I can become a pro. And it was just like it was it w you know, you didn't have social media, you didn't have the visibility of who was what and who did what, but you just had the the talks from the guys that was around you. And you just wanted to be one of the better players in the inner city. And that's that's kind of what what my drive was back then. Bobby Minor: That's good, man. So let me Yeah, you know, mention you mentioned moving to it moving to Atlanta too. Like Chicago is an incredible city, probably not the best city for year-round baseball. You know, I like down here in Texas too. Like it's almost, you know, twelve months out of the year, you can get out on a field somewhere. So, okay, I wanna I wanna I haven't talked about this with many of my guests. I I'm I had Xavier Scruggs on and we we kinda touched on it a little bit. So look I wanna talk about African Americans in baseball, okay? Because you know, there's a lot of a lot of a lot of people have theories and opinions on why do you not see young more young black athletes playing baseball versus other sports. And you the only reason I'm bringing this up because you said something that i is a theory that I have. And you might be people might look at me, Well, you're an old white guy, like what what theory can you have on why there's not more young black players playing baseball? Well, I mean I'm married to an Afro-Latina. And also I played bac my I played college baseball on an HBCU at Prairie View AM before I got hurt. So I have a little you know a little bit of experience just around you know kind of around that aspect of it. But so this is my theory, because like you're you're younger than me, but we're in the we're like like like you said, like you you were introduced to baseball because your dad was a baseball fanatic. So you know, we saw this like in your generation, you still had a lot of like a lot of parents that That love baseball. You know what I mean? From you know, maybe because like Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, all of those guys, you know what I mean? Like they loved it. And so they passed on that love to you. What we see today is you don't see that necessarily, you know, in the African American community where the parents love baseball, so they introduce their son to baseball. And so that's why, you know, they go on and they play other sports. Like I like I tell people like, you know, Julian, my son Julian's a baseball player. Well, if I was a tennis player growing up, Julian would probably be playing tennis, not baseball. You know what I mean? But I love baseball but but what do you like what do you think do you think that it that that's a bigger factor or do you just think it's the fact that you know the cost because I mean for a lot of people not just not just African Americans baseball is almost pricing out a lot of people unless you're just, you know, like independently wealthy but like what what are your thoughts on that or what needs to change in your opinion to to have more young black athletes choosing baseball over other sports? Lou Collier: So it's a few things. You know, first of all is the visibility, like you said, you know, seeing you know, seeing your heroes playing at the highest level and being celebrated, you know, that's always gonna draw young young players, you know, to to the sport. so that's one. you know, the the resources are it's it's difficult. It's difficult to You know, play on a travel ball team, get the necessary training, play in the fall, you know, and all the things that you need in order to keep progressing at the game, at the level that the game is demanding you to be. You know, back when I played, when I played and before me and maybe a little bit after me, you know, it was forty rounds or sixty rounds, you know, in the draft, you know, out of high school I got drafted in the fifty-sixth round. Fifty sixth. And I felt like I made it. I I made it. Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: You know, because that was a goal, is to become a pro. But Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: think about that. Fifty sixth round. That's never gonna happen again. But that Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: was a kid who I was a kid who had tools and a little bit of speed and it was just all over the place, right? You know, nowadays that's not gonna happen. So, you know, you have living limited opportunities for for the for, you know, the African American kid in the in the city or, you know, diverse areas. That's that makes things difficult. Along with, you know, to be on a high profile travel ball team. Most kids unless he's extremely talented, he's not playing on that team. You eliminate the little leagues, 'cause everybody wants to play travel. So no rec leagues where kids can just fall in love with the game and develop and, you know, can turn into whoever they want to turn into. that's limited now. And so and then you talk about, you know, the D one level and and you know, how It's very, very difficult to get to get into a power five or any college at this point, you know, with with all the older players being able to red shirt, gray shirt, whatever whatever it is, it's it's very, very hard for a kid who's not extremely talented and developed and polished to move on to the next level. And and with that it's only twenty rounds. You know, so it's it's tough. It's tough. So you know, so programs like MLB develops you know, stuff that we're doing in in in in Georgia, you know, working with kids and developing them. You know, things I was doing in Chicago. just getting the the kids and teaching them the right way was just trying to I was just trying to create a platform, for kids to learn to learn, you know, what they needed to do and fall in love with the game and hopefully they can continue to develop and move on. and you know, just create opportunity. So you know, that's why you're seeing you know less and less you know African American here in in in America 'cause it's it's really, really a tough you know, tough path for for them to to continue to play resource wise and opportunities and you know, and keep moving through that to the next level. It's it's tough. Bobby Minor: Yeah. No, and there there's a lot there, man. I think that could that could probably be a podcast episode in you know, just by itself. But just spend a couple more minutes talking a little bit more about like the Dream Series, Breakthrough Series and the program and w what they what they do, why they exist and why, you know, why you wanted to be involved in it and how if there's somebody out there watching right now that has a player coming up, you know, how they can maybe you know, get like get connected to that pipeline. Lou Collier: Yeah, I mean, you know, ML MLB created this, you know, this these programs for, you know, kids in diverse areas to create opportunities to for these kids that that really love baseball. to be a part of a program where they can get the training, get the development, you know, be treated first class on, you know, how things operate at the next level. kids are able to work with, you know, former major leaguers, they're around former GMs, former big league managers, and they they really get a a taste of what's this like, you know, in Pro Ball or at the college level. And, you know, it's it's very, very competitive. You know, you're talking about some top kids from all over the country that's really serious about baseball. that's what makes it really, really exciting because these kids are excited about being there and they work really hard and they they have skills. They have real real skills. And and that's why, you know, I wanted to be a part of it, you know, back when I was in Chicago, that was that's what I was what I was doing in the inner city. And when they, you know, reached out to me and asked if I wanted to be a part of it and man I it was it was like, Yes. This is this is what, you know, I've been waiting on and you know, just to give kids kids that want it, man, that deserve it an opportunity to just keep going. And it's been it's been successful, man. It started slow, Had to put all the right pieces in place, put all the right systems in place, but you know, I think it's it's working out really well. I don't know, you know, over the last, you know, five, six years, I know it's been over twelve to fifteen first round picks that's come through that program, maybe more. And hundreds, hundreds that's move on to the D1 level. And not only that, they're not just moving through, they're having success. So that means these kids are prepared. mentally, physically, you know, spiritually. we don't take it lightly, you know, once we get a kid in the program, we know that our time is limited, that we have to you know, impact So, you know, as soon as we get man, it th th the So it's been great, man. I love being there. It's it's it's it's a great program and any parent that has a young young kid that's that's really loves the game and needs that next level you know training development, I would highly recommend that they they seek out the MLB MLB development. Bobby Minor: Yeah, it's good stuff. And I know you mentioned Hunter Green, like like for the people that aren't aware, like Kumar Rock or Cam Collie or Zion Rose, Ian Mahler, just a few names. Who who are a few other names out there that are players that that have gone through in the past couple of years that ended up being draft picks? Lou Collier: You got you got Michael Harris that's in the big leagues now. You got Lawrence Butler that's in the big leagues now. You got Chandler Simpson that's in the big leagues now. You got Jordan Walker. You have Justin Crawford that's in the big leagues now. Geno Groover who made his debut this year, you have Taj Bradley, who's the ace with the twins that come through the program. It's so many kids that come through that program that's really playing at a really high level. And it's it's a it's it's a nice crop in the minor leagues that's that's that's coming through as well. so I mean it's it's it's definitely impactful. but it's it's not it it is not designed for kids who just, you know, is not serious about the game. It's just not Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: Well, you have be serious about the game because, you know, when these kids move on to whether college or pro ball, wanna make sure they're ready to go. And and that's how the program's designed. It's everybody's there's some of the top players or well, you know, they're not polished yet, you know, but they they wanna they they they they they wanna be involved and they they're ready to be coached up like that. So and I think that's how you develop players, you know, once they see what level they're on and Maybe a little bit above or maybe a little bit under, but now they see like, it's it's it's another level to this stuff. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's good stuff. Yeah, there's a long list of players that that have come through that yeah, you'd be just like, wow. So all right. So we talked about Cam reclassing up and graduating early. I want your opinion on the other side of reclassing too, because like what we're seeing is we're seeing kids who are a year, year and a half, sometimes older than the players they're competing against. They're reclassifying before the eighth grade and now, you know, they're fourteen and a half playing thirteen you. What do you think parents need to think about before they make that decision? And at what point are you helping a kid's development and what point are you you're you're hindering them and just creating a very temporary age advantage? Lou Collier: Yeah, that's, you know, that's something that I just recently really, you know, started noticing to be honest with you, you know, how how many how many players were reclassing down. for me I always I always been an advocate to, you know, kid in the fire and let's see let's just let's just see where he's at. You know, what what fun is it if he's bigger, stronger, faster than his competition? That's not what you're getting ready to see at the next level. So for me it's like you you you're you're handicapping the kid. Yeah, once you see the game moving at you know, at a s at a a a a higher speed and kids are bigger and stronger and more mature and he's been and that player's been beaten up on less of talent, a lot of times man, it's it's like a dear in the headlights once they see that. It's hard for him to fight through it. So that's that's kind of my opinion on it. You know, I'd rather I'd rather a younger kid, you know, somebody younger with talent that's able to go and hold his own. I don't recommend a kid that may be physically not ready. to be thrown, you know, in that in a higher level or whatever. I do feel like it got it has to be a a a really good balance. You know, you gotta be really, really honest with yourself as to where the kid is. but I I I do feel like it does him no benefit to have him playing down against lesser talent. That that that doesn't benefit him at all, you know, for me. That's just my opinion. Bobby Minor: No, I I think that's good and it's crazy to me because here's the crazy thing about it too, Lou, like you see these kids that are, you know, fourteen, fourteen and a half, reclassing down. They're playing thirteen U baseball, swinging, you know, trampoline drop fives on small fields. But but the thing is that's even crazier about it, a lot of these kids, it's not like, well, my son's five two, you know, 110 pounds, so he's just small. A lot of these kids that are reclassing down are big kids. They're, you know, six feet tall, hundred and seventy five pounds, you know, now they're going down and and I get it because with social media, th there are a lot of opportunities when you know what I mean for these kids where they're getting hyped up and propped up like I I was telling somebody if you looked at like the Perfect Game did a 13U pitching VLO leaderboard. Their top eleven players at 13U that all threw 85 or higher. And I think the top kid topped out at 91. So very impressive. But when you look at their birthdays, only one of the 11 was actually 13. 10 of them were like, you know, 14 in two months, 14 in five months. And so, you know, I feel like parents are selling out for early accolades and early recognition that mean absolutely zero long term if they if they want their kid to truly play at the highest levels as long as possible. Lou Collier: Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, you know, social media is, you know, is is is the the new trend I guess. And a lot of times I think a lot of parents and kids get caught up into, you know, just that hype. and for me, man, I think, you know, it's a it's dangerous too for those kids to be that big and strong playing against lesser talent. or playing against younger kids, man, that's you know, it's it's dangerous, you know, and I I I just really think that something needs to be done about that. You know, you know, you you I I mean once a kid maybe gets you know fifteen, sixteen years old, little bit older, maybe you can make a decision then. But at twelve, eleven, I mean eleven, twelve, thirteen, shouldn't be you shouldn't be able allowed to do that. Bobby Minor: I agree. I I think it's crazy. That's one of the the biggest I think they should just outlaw. I think you should always be allowed to play up. I don't think you should ever be able to play down with younger with younger kids. So all right, so when you when you look at the best young players that you've been around, which are a lot, what are they doing differently that parents probably don't see? And I'm not talking about like who throws the hardest or who hits the ball the farthest. I'm talking about like what separates the kids who keep moving forward versus the ones who look really good at fourteen or fifteen and then they just level off. Lou Collier: Yeah, the the one the ones that keep moving forward, man, man, they're locked into the the process. You know, they're they're working out every day, they're working out with intent, they wanna be coached, they wanna be challenged, you know, they they're not backing away from any smoke. They have confidence in who they are, but they all understand that they need to get better. And and that's what I see from you know, from a lot of They ready. They w they want it. And, you know, some of the other kids that that already think they have it, think, you know, they they caught up into the height. They're uncoachable. Once things get tough, they tuck their tail. They you know what I mean? They jumping from team to team and, you know, they run it. They on the run. And that's what I see and and those guys are not built for what the game has for The game you have to you have to you gotta s you gotta run through adversity with baseball. You have to deal with the ups and downs. You gotta be willing to, you know, come out every day and and put the work in in order to improve. And you know, that's the difference I see in the guys who move through there and have you know, success and the ones who Bobby Minor: That's good stuff. That's good stuff. when you were playing in the majors, who's the toughest pitcher you ever faced? Lou Collier: Man, it was a lot of tough ones. It was a lot of tough ones. But I I really I I didn't like facing Rob N he was really really tough. Wallers was throwing a hundred back then, didn't want to see that. Bobby Minor: Yeah, the braze. Yeah. Lou Collier: Smotz, I might have foul tipped one ball off him. Smoles was throwing ninety-nine mile power cutters. ninety two mile per hour sliders, you know, back then with pinpoint control. you know, Randy Johnson was intimidating, but you kinda knew what you was gonna get, so it kinda eliminated all the it's like he's coming right at you, so dig in and Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: act. So but man it was a lot of really, really good pitchers back then. You know, guys that that that that, you know, had pitchability, width, velocity and control. those those are the few that I didn't want to see. Bobby Minor: Yeah. No, I c I can imagine, Golly. And see, I b I bet left handed. I can never imagine. I you know, even standing in the box against Randy Johnson, I don't care. I'd be like I'd be like who is it, John Crook? I think where you Lou Collier: Yeah. Bobby Minor: know, yeah. so did now did you ever what's you what was your favorite stadium that you ever played in? Lou Collier: For me, man, I love when I got a chance to play at Wrigley, you know, 'cause I grew up in Chicago. That was that was Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: that was beautiful. But d I I I would say Jacobs Field back when it was just rocking, Bobby Minor: yeah. Lou Collier: back when he had all those really, really good teams and and they packed it out, you know, that was that was one place I really enjoyed playing and and Dodger Stadium was the other one. Bobby Minor: yeah, all all good ones. now did you ever did you ever play a game in in Kamiski? Lou Collier: I did. I did. When I was with the Phillies Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: one I think it was like one makeup game I played there. Yep, so Bobby Minor: Okay. What was it what was that like? Playing back w I mean, literally coming home. Lou Collier: Yeah, that was cool. That was that was cool playing in Kaminsky. Even though it was one game. I I I think I was I kinda came off the bench, might have got one at bat or something like that. Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: But it was cool, you know, that was towards the end of my career. it was great to do that, you know. But I did, you know, I got to play a lot of games at Wrigley. So, you know, that Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: was that was that was that was wonderful. Bobby Minor: Yeah, Wrigley. I just went I I turned sixty l last month to be a month tomorrow and my wife and I went up to Chicago and watched the Cubs and the White Sox at at at Wrigley on August seventeenth. So it's just it's just different. Just the energy outside, it's just it's hard to explain. I think just from a fan's perspective and from the guys that I've talked about, just from a player's perspective, it's really hard to explain unless you've been there and experienced it. So, all right, so I'm I'm gonna start to kind of wind things down. So I wanna do something, I just call it in and out, Lou. You're you're a former infielder, just a little quick in and out. It's gonna be four questions, rapid fire, quick answers, little nuggets for the parents out there. So it's time for in and out with Lou Collier. All right. First question. What's one thing baseball parents put way too much stock in? Lou Collier: I think rushing the process. Rushing the process. It takes time to develop. the the little guy at ten might be the big strong guy at eighteen. Trust the process, get around good people and and and and and stay positive. Bobby Minor: All right. Second question, biggest sign that a kid is ready to play up. Lou Collier: He's dominating his competition. You know, on a consistent basis. He's dominating it. You know, I feel like I feel like any kid that that's dominating all the time needs to be challenged. It's time to move him to a higher level, to challenge him. This game is about progressing and making sure, you know, the player is fighting. Bobby Minor: Yeah, that's good. All right, this question, you already kinda answered it. So one thing that you see in really good players that parents usually miss. Lou Collier: Just just focus and and competitiveness. You know, the the good players wanna compete. They're not running running from any any type of competition, position change, lineup, it the way they're hitting in the lineup. They're sure about what they're gonna do and they're gonna show up and they're gonna show you. Bobby Minor: Alright, last question, slow roller. Harder job. Playing in the big leagues or being a baseball dad? Lou Collier: Nobody told me that every play, every at bat, everything that I was gonna have those same nerves that I had right before the game in the big Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: leagues. In the big leagues they go away once I make the first play, but watching him, don't stop. That same anxiety is going on the whole time. So definitely being a baseball dad. Bobby Minor: All right, that was In and Out with Lou Collier. All right, Lou, just couple more questions and and we'll wrap everything up. what's your what's your favorite all time baseball memory, either as a fan or as a player? Lou Collier: I will say as a player, when I I played my first game at my first time at Wrigley, had a bunch of you know, friends and family there and hit hit a home run against Mark Clark. You know, I grew up watching, you know, guys run around those bases and, you know, Harry Carey and Steve Stone talk about, you know, opposing players and, you know, home players and and being able to have that camera in front of me after I did it, that was that was I could have Bobby Minor: Dude, no no no no doubt. that's wild. I and you're now you're not you're not as old as me, but you're old enough to remember when Wrigley had no lights and all the Cubs games were on WGN, middle of the day. Every every every home game was a day game. So all right. What's your favor what's your favorite baseball movie? Lou Collier: Yeah. Bobby Minor: They're finally. All right. Lou Collier: Yeah, I like Bull Durham. It's funny. It's real. I got a chance to play in that old stadium when I was in the minor leagues too, so that Bobby Minor: wow. Lou Collier: connected the dots. seen the bull up there, seen the old stadium, so that was that was that was fun. Bobby Minor: Yeah. So that's my favorite movie. Finally, somebody somebody on the same page. And I've actually been to that stadium too. I Julian when he was seven played at North Durham Little League. We moved up there back when I was a pastor to help restart a church. And the old stadium, they used it more for like high school games and stuff, but we went and watched a high school game there and and everything. So we w we got to watch some Durham Bull games, so at their new stadium. All right, Lou, so so la this is the last question and we'll this is where we will we will end this episode. What is what is one cold hard truth that the parent of a ten or eleven or twelve year old out there needs to hear that they're probably not hearing from the people that are around them right now? Lou Collier: Parents need to be honest with what they see in their kid. You know, if he's lazy, call it. If he's not, you know, is not that talented, go work on it. it's not always the it's not always the coach's fault. Stop blaming the coaches. Stop blaming the in the mirror, decide on what what it is that that that the family needs to do as a whole if you want to do this. If you want to keep progressing, come up with a game plan and be a hundred percent honest with your child. I'm not saying beat up. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying be honest. Stop blaming the pointing the finger. 'Cause that's that's not gonna help him. Evaluate what you see. Allow him to go out there and make mistakes or dominate whatever it may be. Go home, evaluate, come up with a plan. Do we need to get better at this? you know, what what are things that we can improve on? Because, you know, 10, 11 years old, he's really, really, really far, far from who he's gonna be. Stop pointing the finger, stop it. Bobby Minor: Good stuff, Lou. All right, Lou, so if anybody wants to keep up with what you got going on on social media, where can they follow you and find you? Lou Collier: Yeah, you can follow me at on Instagram at Lou Caria Baseball. I also have Big League Dreams baseball as well. You can follow me on either one of those. got got a lot of stuff coming down. Bobby Minor: So talk about that just for a second because I mean I know you do a lot of stuff with former b like like Marquise Grissom. I know y'all do a lot of stuff together, Marvin Freeman and everything. Just just tell us a so talk a little bit about what you have going on with Lou Collyer baseball outside of dream series and breakthrough series and all that. Lou Collier: Yeah, so for me I do a lot of training development, private lessons, small group lessons, you know, different stuff like that. me personally. you know, I I can work out teams and different stuff like that. but myself and Marquise, you know, we have the Hillboys and the Hillboys originally the original group is Michael Harris, Chandler Simpson, Lawrence Butler, Cam Carlier, Marquise Grissom Jr., Jalen Nowland. and Ryan Spikes who were all in Pro Ball and which, you know, Lawrence, Mike and Chandler's in the big leagues. And we started that program, you know, during the pandemic. Just, you know, we you know, baseball was shut down. Those guys needed to train and work and stay in shape. And so we we started, you know, you know, a program and grassroots, just back to the just just grinding. figuring out ways we can get better because all the facilities have shut down. And so that was twenty twenty and and and, you know, from that point on, man, those guys have really developed, you know, as and have grown as players and and young men because it's mentoring along with the training. And myself and Marquise, we'd share our, you know, our ups and downs. personal battles on and off the field so these these you know, these young men are able to hear the stories and things that we went through. So when they kinda deal with it, they kinda have something to go off of. And, you know, and and just to help them make the right decisions. So we started that and since then we started our junior Hillboys program, which is a thirty day program. It's about five weeks. We start that around that second, third week of October. And it's kids ages, you know, nine up to fourteen. no high schoolers, so they're, you know, up until by eighth grade. And what we do is kinda take them through the same type of training, you know, speed and agility. Take to the hill, they train up the hill. We have a day in a cage where we're working on the swings and we're on the field, you know, two or three times. We're working on everything baseball, but the main thing is just about having the right group of kids and parents together, teaching these kids the proper way to go about their business, setting a strong foundation and and and really letting the kids and parents know it's just it's not just about playing games. It's about practicing more than you play and develop. Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: You know, I hear a lot of people a lot of parents, they know one thing is he's not getting the reps in second, he's not getting the reps in short. And Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: I'm thinking to myself, how you gonna get the reps in a game where he might get one ground ball? You know? Bobby Minor: Yeah. Lou Collier: Where you know, as when we train him, we can get hundreds and hundreds with major league instruction. And that's where you that's where you grow at. And so we're just trying to change that narrative and and and kinda coach the parents on what's important. at a younger age so that once as they grow they can kinda Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: see the difference and really lock into what their kid needs. So this is that's this will be our fourth, third year doing that with the junior hill boys and this year we're gonna implement a high school part of it too. that's Bobby Minor: Mm. Lou Collier: gonna start like right at the Thanksgiving and that's about four weeks as well. So we're just trying to in the fall when things kinda slow down for everybody 'cause you know the spring or summer, parents are all over the place. But in the fall we're trying Bobby Minor: Mm-hmm. Lou Collier: to implement these programs where we can, you know, really chip away at at you know, at the kids and and teach them the right way to to go about Bobby Minor: All right. Well man, good stuff, Lou. I really appreciate you taking the time. good luck in all that you're doing. Good luck to Cam. I'm sure we're gonna see him making his making his debut here. who knows, maybe even next year. Lou Collier: Yeah, yeah, we we pushing. He it's a big off season for him, but he's ready. Bobby Minor: So no doubt, man. All right, Lou, thanks so much for stopping by. Lou Collier: All right, thanks Bobby. Appreciate you having me.