Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / Episode 72: Comparing & Contrasting Anakin and Padme's Relationship to Obi-Wan and Satine's Relationship

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Episode 72: Comparing & Contrasting Anakin and Padme's Relationship to Obi-Wan and Satine's Relationship · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello there. It's most things Kenobi.
• 0:03
  This is the podcast you're looking for.
• 0:18
  Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of most things Kenobi.
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  A podcast about Obi-Wan Kenobi and all things.
• 0:23
  Star Wars. I'm your host Leanne and I'm
• 0:26
  your host Lauren and we are discussing Obi-Wan Kenobi this
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  week with relation to his relationship with Satine and how
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  it compares to Anakin and padmé is relationship.
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  Which is an interesting topic, I think.
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  Well, I will the quick caveat if you hear crunching in the
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  Background. It's my dog is, she's little
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  reactive, and she needs comfort and she has to be in here right
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  now. So she's chewing on a loud bone.
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  So, sorry for any gross two weeks.
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  Okay. The things we do for our
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  children were there. Gross chewing sounds in Obi-Wan
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  and satine's relationship and or over?
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  I'm sorry, Anakin and padmé. That's really what I'm trying to
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  say, gwei? Trying to segue this shit.
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  So these two relationships are messy, we'll just we'll just
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  chalk it up. Is that it's at their best,
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  they're messy, my God. Yeah.
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  Yeah, I mean, there's so much sip.
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  There's a lot of similarities and then there's a lot of like
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  opposites with them. It's very interesting.
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  Yeah, the first thing that comes to mind when we talk about these
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  2, is the way that they show affection and or their love for
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  one another because You and I have discussed.
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  Well, in the oh, Bettina episode, I believe, which is
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  open Obi-Wan and Satine mixed together.
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  And then we have a need Allah which is Anakin and padmé
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  Amidala mixed together which I've also heard Pannikin.
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  It's so silly but it's weird and it's a all these all these names
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  are silly. It's just Obi-Wan is to Tina
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  Anakin and Padme. But the first thing I think of
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  is how they show their love to each other which is very
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  different. I think.
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  Yeah. Very all of the we have to hide
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  this relationship, shit aside, how they show each other,
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  affection is crazy. Crazy different, right?
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  Anakin and padmé are very physical and their affection
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  they hug. They hold hands.
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  Yeah. Like their love language is
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  definitely physical touch. Yes.
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  Yeah. And everyone in satine's, is
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  they do touch each other, which they didn't just in, cuz I'll be
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  one. Doesn't touch people very much
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  in the cartoons. I think Ewan McGregor's
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  performance is much more physical, but Their love is is
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  like service or one of those gender.
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  Yeah. Aren't there like what is it?
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  Like eight Love Languages was there.
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  Eight. I thought there were four.
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  Maybe there's 40 50 both wrong. We're all wrong.
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  Read them up. Let's let's be reminded what
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  they are. Receiving gifts, quality time,
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  physical touch acts of service words of affirmation.
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  Okay, so Obi-Wan and Satine are definitely like acts of service
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  / words of affirmation when they're not quarreling with one
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  another. Yeah.
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  When they're not being passive-aggressive towards one
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  another's jobs or maybe that is They show their love.
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  I'm not sure. Yeah.
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  Passive aggression isn't on this list.
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  It's not on there. Damn, should be.
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  I mean I would say Anakin and padmé our physical touch and I
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  don't know. They they do exchange gifts,
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  they do. Yep.
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  And they do strive for quality time though.
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  I don't know how much of it they get.
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  Yeah, yeah. I I just think The fact that
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  okay, so there's a lot of different ways you can show
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  somebody love, right? Right.
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  The way that Satine and Obi-Wan and that's what I find.
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  So very interesting about the relationship is the fact that
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  Satine loved Obi-Wan so much that she didn't interfere with
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  his love, for being a Jedi and his dedication to being a Jedi.
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  And he loved her so much that he didn't like interfere with the
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  pacifism and the, you know, the Mandalorian ideals and culture
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  and all that stuff. You know that the Republic was
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  meddling in or trying to her helping Etc.
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  So in the end they loved each other enough to let each other
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  go which directly contrast how Anakin could never let Padme go
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  and watch is what led to their demise.
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  Yes. And like, even Beyond her death
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  like into his time. As we're he still was obsessing
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  about it. So yeah.
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  Yes definitely. Anakin is people don't like to
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  hear this but he's codependent. He is we ever been in a
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  codependent relationship, you know.
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  That's exactly is 100% that he can't exist without his other
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  person. That would lie and not healthy.
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  No, it's it leads to Like Obsession like he had, which you
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  could argue wasn't even love. It was the love of the idea of
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  something, he was in love with the idea that somebody loved him
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  that accepted it, which is, is nice.
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  You want that in a partner but he never wanted to let it go.
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  He didn't want to let Padme breathe.
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  I don't think yet. It's interesting.
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  You're saying that and it's triggering like all these
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  memories of from Clone Wars where he's kind of giving her
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  Hard time about her Duty and actually, even in what is it
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  attack of the Clones? We gives his famous speech about
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  dad being a pro dictatorship, but it's like there was there
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  was tension when their beliefs didn't align in a way that felt
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  a little bit scary. Like very, you know are you
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  gonna lose it all of a sudden and Forest crushed my throat.
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  Hmm, no, I didn't do that shit. I'm just here to tell everyone.
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  I'm an independent woman who he is in a relationship with a man,
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  and I need space to breathe. Yeah, I cannot and will not
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  handle someone who stifles myself my creativity.
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  My anything same. If you're with the right person,
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  they give you this face. Yes, correct.
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  Yeah. And they'll support you uplift.
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  You it's not. It's not selfish at all.
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  It's actually very healthy and you might learn that lesson.
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  The hard way if you've ever given up who you are or parts of
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  who you are, or things that you love for another person, And
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  there's no equity in your relationship.
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  That's not healthy. And I'm not saying that Obi-Wan
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  and satine's relationship is necessarily healthy.
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  No, no, not at all. I think there's, they're both
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  like extreme ends of what they are.
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  Right. Like too possessive on one side
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  and probably two separate on another mmm, to two independent
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  on the other. Like, yeah, you know, it's about
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  balance, right? Right?
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  In Star Wars supposedly supposedly but they don't have
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  that in either of these relationships.
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  Well I I see it over one is the kind of person who like hyper
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  compartmentalizes. So it's like if he's with you,
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  you have his attention but as soon as he gets called away to
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  something else. There he stops thinking about
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  you and he's paying attention to the next thing that he's doing
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  and I don't know if he would Pine for a person, maybe he does
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  though because you see that he clearly has some blockages
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  mentally about Anakin and Qui-Gon so truth but then he
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  seems to be able to kind of like let go of Satine pretty easily
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  and Clone Wars. He kind of just like does his
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  duty We don't really see in Cannon.
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  Anyway, like lasting regret that weighs on his mind all the time,
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  maybe it happens, but we don't see that in Clone Wars or really
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  anywhere else, but maybe that's because he's like balanced about
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  it. I do yeah, yeah, yeah, I do
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  think that they both very obviously ran to the rescue of
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  They're women for lack of a better term but the women also
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  aided them as well. Yeah.
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  In countless ways they're both. So, the two men are Jedi and the
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  two women are in a position of power politically.
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  Mmm. So those are like the obvious
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  similarities, right? But In what other ways are they
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  similar? Besides that?
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  I guess in the Forbidden Love part of it and we don't really
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  know again, we surmise about Obi-Wan, it's a teen but we
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  don't know what happened between them when they were young.
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  I mean, Obi-Wan even says to Anika and it's natural for us to
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  have these feelings. We're just not supposed to act
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  on them. I had feelings for Satine, but
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  that's not his feelings. Yeah, turned into Corky.
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  No allegedly. Allegedly.
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  I love what you said about Obi-Wan and Satine.
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  I think they accepted that they were like ships that pass in the
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  night, you know. It's like they have a
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  connection, they love each other.
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  I mean, the actors have said, they believe that the characters
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  loved each other just recently. James Arnold Taylor said, he
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  believes ob1 loves the T, he believes it.
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  I do too, I do too. To and they loved each other so
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  much that they accepted that they couldn't give up their Duty
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  for love. And I've had some people leave
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  comments on my fanfic about that because I kind of like the
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  ending is not like a romance ending.
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  It's a more like power, like powerful in the sense that like
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  each character is empowered by the end.
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  So it's like a lot of people commented saying.
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  They found that really refreshing that the characters
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  are able to be themselves and not give up things for each
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  other, you know. And I don't know, I think that
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  Anakin and Padme, it kind of went down the other route where
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  they were sacrificing things for each other in a way that became
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  suffocating eventually yeah. Well I do think that both
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  Obi-Wan as we know, as he said, would have left the Jedi Order
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  for Satine and I do think that Anakin would have also to be
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  with Padme. Hmm, I'm not sure he would have
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  left quite the same way that he ended up leaving, right?
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  I think had he been given the chance he would have walked away
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  from it all like him and Ahsoka actually hint at in their final
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  conversation before she leaves forever.
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  Heartbreaking as it Is. But you know it begs the
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  argument. How does your past build your
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  future with relationships. You know, so Obi-Wan was taken
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  from his parents to be a Jedi. And that's all he's ever known
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  and he was very young, wasn't he?
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  Well, I guess he's have to be, he was old for his age group,
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  but I thought he said he was like three.
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  Yeah, so I mean much younger than Anakin.
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  Oh yeah, much younger than Anakin was able to form a bond
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  in slavery. Nonetheless with his mother
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  before he was yanked away. So I could I could see where
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  Anakin has a fear of abandonment Management because that's all
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  he's ever known. Right?
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  No father. Mother was they were both in
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  slavery. He was yanked from it.
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  Although he made the choice to go which is much different than
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  like, Obi-Wan who is just kind of like all the Jedi really.
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  Yeah, but like a choice is a nine-year-old.
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  Do nine-year-olds really understand the gravity know, he
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  just wanted to fly ships. And be cool in space.
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  Yeah, right. Like as a nine-year-old.
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  Wood. And the the Galaxy.
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  Yeah. Never got over that and so I can
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  totally see why he falls in love with this woman, like the first
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  woman he's ever talked to besides.
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  Yeah, I mean you're right. Do, you know, are you an angel?
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  If it's so sweet because it's so cute here in it and then like oh
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  yeah but like his I look Anakin is still my favorite case study
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  in all of Star Wars. Mentally speaking for what he
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  goes through, what ends up happening and how he turns it
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  around. Round.
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  But I don't like where his relationship went by the end of
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  Revenge of the Sith like we get a lot more insight in the Clone
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  Wars, but there's some really gross shit that turns me off
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  that goes on between those two. That I've you in a way that is
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  not something for me. Yeah, well, I've we have some
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  acquaintances who have also pointed out.
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  That there's some stuff in Clone Wars, which I kind of because
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  it's such a kid show. I kind of like forget sometimes
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  there's the stuff with Clovis. Oh, it's crazy.
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  Yeah, like and I just don't see Obi-Wan ever doing that.
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  We don't see him doing that, he just moves on with his life and
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  it doesn't Hinds. It's the punch somebody in the
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  face and beat the living. Stuffing out of.
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  Yeah. I give we just don't see that
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  happen. Wouldn't mind seeing it
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  happened? I was thank you.
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  Thank you. Thank you.
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  I was thinking the exact same thing.
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  But I don't think Satine would ever allow him to do that.
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  She would punch him first. He's a pacifist she want, she
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  doesn't want somebody protecting her at the cost of her pacifism
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  right now. Took to padme's credit because
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  we appreciate pad made for she didn't want a war.
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  She didn't want conflict. She wanted people to be at
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  peace, not in the way that a pacifist is but she wanted
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  things to be equal. Yeah, and all that shit with
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  Clovis was. Zane that's like the jealous
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  lover. No one wants.
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  It's not flattering at that point.
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  Yeah I mean Josie really it really implies that you aren't
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  confident in yourself or your relationship.
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  Yeah. And honestly I think that
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  jealousy in stories and like Forbidden Love is always
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  romanticized to live through it in real life is horrific.
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  I mean there's a lot Wrong with rom-coms.
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  Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
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  Well I'm really super not not good in real life.
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  I mean shit. We don't get a whole lot of what
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  we want to Satine so it's not really a fair argument because
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  we don't see a lot but yeah, it's true what they're based in
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  they still walked away from and chose their paths but still held
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  a respect for each other. And there's a lot of memes out
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  there of like had made just excusing a lot of shit.
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  It is that respectful? I mean, is that?
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  Yeah, I mean her husband, tries to kill her, he chokes her and
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  then she says, there's still good in him beautiful but also
• 16:57
  scary. Yeah, yeah, it's weird because
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  it's like, you could look at it from two lenses, right?
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  You could see it as a woman seeing past the stress that her
• 17:09
  husband is under and seeing that like, he's still good.
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  He's just like been forced into this scenario.
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  Cracks, which he was. Yes, absolutely.
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  He was still chose it though and it's not an excuse for his
• 17:21
  behavior. There is no excuse for domestic
• 17:24
  violence. No, like, no circumstances.
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  Is it, alright? To be violent towards your
• 17:30
  partner, know, especially physically, but mentally and
• 17:33
  emotionally as well. And I know a lot of people
• 17:36
  apologize and excuse Anakin, because Hayden Christensen is
• 17:41
  hot and because argument, but I'm not expecting.
• 17:45
  Accusing it. Yeah, I mean and he's an
• 17:47
  interesting character, but it's also like it's awful, that's
• 17:53
  horrific and it's not acceptable.
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  Like you can't excuse it away, that that's like not a gray area
• 18:00
  to me. No, no.
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  But listen everyone, I agree, I can appreciate the mental games
• 18:08
  that went on to create Darth Vader from Anakin but I do not
• 18:12
  appreciate. some of the shit that went down between him and
• 18:16
  Padme that we saw, Yeah, it's it history, so far away from where
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  he had been and I think Clone Wars, actually kind of adds more
• 18:28
  power to those scenes where Anakin starts to fall and
• 18:32
  especially like the Kenobi Series, where you see Vader
• 18:35
  broken on his knees. It's like, after watching clone
• 18:40
  wars and seeing a more heroic side of Anakin, a more selfless
• 18:44
  side, you have more opportunities to see his
• 18:47
  selflessness and his Compassion and love for like Sokka.
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  You do see his, his cracks in there.
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  But you see what he could have been.
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  If there was that part of him was healed, you know, that part
• 18:59
  that was afraid of Abandonment. And even though he was taken
• 19:03
  from his mother, he thought he was safe with Qui-Gon.
• 19:06
  He said Jed, I can't be killed and then Qui-Gon dice right
• 19:09
  away, right? Yes.
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  So that would have been so traumatizing to a child.
• 19:15
  I just it makes sense. When you put it all together.
• 19:20
  Why he ended up the way he did. Yeah, but it's a cut.
• 19:25
  There comes a point and maybe I'm not talking about Anakin
• 19:28
  anymore. There comes a point in your
• 19:30
  adult life where you have to say, Okay, this happened to me,
• 19:33
  but I'm going to change it. I'm not going to allow it to
• 19:37
  make decisions for me. I'm not going to allow it to
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  alter my behavior anymore. You know, it's called like
• 19:41
  growing up and yeah, he didn't get that chance.
• 19:44
  It was Taken from him Palpatine was already, you know, pulling
• 19:49
  the strings so to speak and but he still made choices.
• 19:54
  Okay. And that's the same thing with
• 19:57
  Obi-Wan and Satine, I don't want to shortchange them and their
• 20:00
  relationship. They made a choice and I do
• 20:04
  think it's wrong. In some way as Satine is being
• 20:08
  threatened at dying. She says the one liner in the
• 20:12
  hallway, you know? I've always loved you or
• 20:14
  something. It's like do you have to bring
• 20:16
  it up here in a fucking hallway? Like you don't even mean that
• 20:21
  that will exchange and then Anakin kills the dude.
• 20:24
  Anyway, so like twice with her dying breath.
• 20:27
  Yeah, she professed her love for Obi-Wan and he did not
• 20:31
  reciprocate. Yeah, those are choices as well.
• 20:35
  Yeah, that really hurts. Those are those are bad choices,
• 20:39
  not choices. I would make on either end.
• 20:42
  It's very I mean, it's the Hannah thing, where you say I
• 20:47
  love you and someone says, thank you.
• 20:50
  Yeah, you know. Yeah.
• 20:51
  It's like oh okay never know what.
• 20:54
  I don't love you anymore. Really fucking weird.
• 21:00
  Yeah and it's like even if he believed the Jedi code and was
• 21:05
  holding true to his Jedi Code has to like that have sympathy
• 21:10
  or empathy for what this woman is, putting her heart on the
• 21:13
  line for you and you still don't say, I love you.
• 21:15
  You too. He just saw his dances around it
• 21:17
  a bit. Yeah.
• 21:19
  Oh that hurts really bad. As I've always said, that ob1,
• 21:24
  just friend zones Satine because there's this that line in the
• 21:31
  third episode of the Mandalore plot where, yeah, the teen says,
• 21:35
  yes, we're friends and nothing else.
• 21:39
  Is he telling him himself that I think Obi-Wan has lived an
• 21:45
  entire life telling himself. Yes, I did the right thing.
• 21:48
  I don't love her but he did. Yeah.
• 21:51
  One of those things. Yeah, I think you're right.
• 21:54
  As if I keep lying to myself, maybe at some point I'll believe
• 21:57
  it, you know. But yeah.
• 22:00
  He could have thrown her a bone at the end and said he loved it
• 22:02
  back. Seriously.
• 22:03
  At least was she was actually dying in the Lawless.
• 22:07
  He could have said something for fuck's sake, But all of
• 22:15
  Obi-Wan's prior life, led him up to that moment to he was sworn
• 22:20
  to a code and he was going to hold to it.
• 22:22
  The end like yeah yeah again not a choice.
• 22:25
  I would make you work your whole life to be in a career and then
• 22:29
  de like you switch it just because you met someone and fell
• 22:32
  in love or yeah do you try and find a balance which is helpful
• 22:36
  or do you go all the way on the other end and turn your job into
• 22:40
  becoming the most powerful Jedi ever?
• 22:42
  And Accidentally killing like your job and the person you love
• 22:45
  and I'm talking about Anakin, you know, why does it have to be
• 22:50
  so severe on both sides? Yeah.
• 22:55
  It's very extreme and I would guess you could kind of blame
• 23:00
  the Jedi. I mean I understand the like
• 23:05
  desire to have no attachment and that's kind of like a Buddhist
• 23:09
  idea as well having attachments and Expectations are the things
• 23:14
  that cause disappointment, you have to be able to accept that
• 23:18
  things, change like nothing's permanent.
• 23:22
  And of course, as we see in Star Wars, for both women, both women
• 23:28
  are used against their Partners, right?
• 23:31
  Like even though Satine and Obi-Wan are not necessarily in
• 23:35
  an active relationship. Mall knows, it is like Obi-Wan's
• 23:38
  most vulnerable spot. Except for Anakin interesting,
• 23:41
  that mall. Didn't go after Anakin right and
• 23:46
  uses her against Obi-Wan, which we have discussed how fucking
• 23:51
  awful that is because everything Satine works for ya.
• 23:54
  Does it matter because she's just used as a pawn to hurt a
• 23:58
  Jedi. Her life work is just thrown
• 24:01
  away for that. Well, both both Padme and
• 24:04
  Satine, were their deaths were subject to the dark side.
• 24:10
  They were both in their deaths were in.
• 24:12
  Launched, yeah, by the dark side and for the record.
• 24:17
  If you haven't listened to our pad, made didn't die of a broken
• 24:20
  heart episode. We don't believe she died of a
• 24:22
  broken heart. We believe that Palpatine suck
• 24:25
  the life out of her to sustain Anakin.
• 24:27
  That's The Abridged version. Yeah we have some good Padme
• 24:30
  episodes, we have some good, OB teen episodes you should go back
• 24:35
  and listen to because we have a very passionate we are very
• 24:38
  passionate bees but not possessive No, just deeply sad,
• 24:47
  sad, disappointed crying all the time.
• 24:49
  No, but yes, you know, the usual thinking about it. 24 hours a
• 24:54
  day. Yes.
• 24:55
  I just think that it's The Jedi are set up to fail because they
• 25:01
  themselves are in a in an extreme you know, it's not
• 25:04
  balanced what we've talked about the Jedi code and the Sith code
• 25:08
  it's like the Sith is all on one side.
• 25:10
  The Jedis on the other. The gray.
• 25:12
  Jedi is the true balance? Yeah so you can have attachment
• 25:17
  which we've talked about with Luke.
• 25:19
  You can have attachment and have it.
• 25:21
  Not interfere with your ability to do your duty.
• 25:24
  You can love someone and still decide that you have to do a
• 25:28
  selfie. Selfless act that might separate
• 25:33
  you from your loved one, but if it's the right thing to do you
• 25:35
  still do it. Hmm.
• 25:37
  He proves that it's possible and we see ob1 and Satine in one
• 25:44
  version of it being destructive and Anakin and padmé and an even
• 25:49
  more extreme version of how that's destructive and it's
• 25:52
  because when you turn off things that are natural and human
• 25:56
  beings, like hm attachment Hmm. Only bad things.
• 26:00
  Come of that, eventually. It's like a powder keg, right?
• 26:04
  And it's gonna blow it. Some point can't sustain it.
• 26:09
  You're exactly right. So the Jedi are to blame.
• 26:14
  Yes, I blame the Jedi Council for both relationships.
• 26:21
  Not working. You know what?
• 26:24
  There were just too many for it to be a coincidence.
• 26:27
  You know, you really think someone like yadda with is gonna
• 26:32
  approve a relationship. Although I do still joke that
• 26:36
  yodeling Yoda had baby owed. Abundance is my joke.
• 26:39
  Well, are we going to get to see?
• 26:41
  You gotta land. Tales of the Jedi we are.
• 26:44
  She's on the cover, so maybe we'll have an answer.
• 26:49
  It's Master. Sinube is on that cover to say
• 26:51
  no. I know, I know it's hard but I
• 26:55
  was gonna read it. I was going to post something
• 26:57
  about it because I read a while ago, that Master sinube had a
• 27:02
  lot to do with Dooku, when Dooku was even a kid.
• 27:05
  And with Qui-Gon, like teaching them lightsaber combat.
• 27:08
  So it's going to be interesting and probably really sad.
• 27:12
  Dad. I can't wait, that's okay.
• 27:13
  We're here for the feels, but we know where he ends up.
• 27:17
  I know we know where they all end up in its dad.
• 27:21
  That's seriously, that's the bad part about how they tell stories
• 27:26
  Star Wars out of order through. We know what happens.
• 27:30
  And then we go back and see the happy times and just like oh god
• 27:35
  well maybe it'll help us appreciate them a little more,
• 27:38
  right? Yeah, I'm here for it.
• 27:46
  Since we discussed the different types of Love Languages that we
• 27:51
  thought all we want is the teen had with each other and Anakin
• 27:54
  and Padme had with each other, which love language.
• 27:56
  Do you think that they have or what is the most obvious way
• 27:59
  that they're similar? Well, we'll take either answer
• 28:01
  or both, let us know. All right, join us next week.
• 28:07
  We're going to go back to and or so if you want more Obi-Wan, but
• 28:10
  and or is just too good, that's in that to not talk about, so it
• 28:13
  really is. We're going to discuss episodes
• 28:16
  five and six in one episode together.
• 28:19
  So, come back next week for that.
• 28:23
  Thank you so much for joining us here on the most things Kenobi
• 28:26
  podcast. We appreciate every single one
• 28:28
  of our patrons and are grateful for your support if you'd like
• 28:31
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• 28:34
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• 28:35
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• 28:42
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• 28:46
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• 28:49
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• 28:52
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• 28:55
  So until next time, my space twin May the force be with you
• 28:59
  always.