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012: Christian Media · Walk Talk: Faith in Motion

• Randy: Alright brother, here we are again. Pj: Yes, sir. Let's talk about it. Randy: Let's talk about it. So I think we've alluded to this episode a few times in some of our previous episodes. But today, I think we're going to talk about Christian media. Pj: Absolutely, Christian content, movies, music, the whole nine. ⁓ Randy: Everything's on the table. Movies, music, television, anything that might be labeled Christian media is up for discussion today. Pj: All right, so where do you want to start? I know you kind of got a bone to pick with this space, so maybe I'll let you kick it off. Randy: Well, yeah, I do have a bone to pick and I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on this whole concept because the long and the short of it is there's some things I like a lot and some things I don't like a whole heck of a lot more than I like. And so, yeah, so we should probably start by just defining what we mean by Christian media just to make sure we're all on the same page. So I guess I'll go first here. So for me, when I'm thinking of Christian media, I'm thinking of stuff that is really overtly marketed towards Christians. So it's either got a Christian label on it, like Christian music. So Christian hip hop, right? That's the easy one. That's something we're very familiar with. Worship music, stuff like that, where it's overtly marketed towards Christians. Or Christian movies, in my mind those are movies you're gonna find made by Angel Studios. Or you could do a Pj: Right. Randy: quick, easy Google search and find a list of Christian films that are advertised and marketed and usually have a very limited production run in theaters and things like that because of it. I don't know if I could really come up with a solid definition off the top of my head, but I think it's more of something I know when I see more than I could really define in words. Pj: Yeah, and I think, you know, with that being said, I mean, even without necessarily defining it, I think most people would kind of agree that they kind of have an idea of like, this is more geared toward a Christian or faith based audience than other things. ⁓ And, and I mean, realistically, you know, we've we've kind of seen an increase, I feel like as of late, ⁓ you know, kind of in that lane, you know, with even Randy: Yeah. Pj: I guess the main one that pops to mind is that animated, you know, David that came out not too long ago, I mean, to hit theaters. I mean, really don't remember anything necessarily along those lines very recently. Well, at least not in the, I guess Prince of Egypt as far as cartoon would be concerned, but then I have some issues there. Randy: Well, let's talk about Prince of Egypt. think that's interesting you bring that one up because I don't know if I would necessarily categorize that as a Christian movie. I don't know. Pj: Well, but, but I mean, think about it at one point in time, did you not? Cause I know I did. I was like, ⁓ man, like it was crazy because I even wanted to show it to my kids. Cause I grew up watching it, you know, and I was like, Hey, let's check this out. And then I'm sitting there and watching. I'm like, Hmm, this is not as biblically sound as I necessarily remember, you know? So it was kind of a, I mean, and that's, I'll be honest with you for me personally, that's my biggest issue. Randy: Yeah. Right. Pj: It's like, I've seen, like whenever you do get these big productions, like, ⁓ so they're Noah, the story of Noah, what Russell Crowe deviates so far off from the Bible. And in my opinion, I'm like, why are you going to take a story specifically from the Bible and not remain accurate to that, that story? You know I mean? It's like, it, that, kind of stuff aggravates me to an extent. Randy: Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah. Pj: And I feel like Prince of Egypt did that also. Randy: So I think, so we're kind of working our way around a definition here, but I think for me, one of the important qualities of a so-called Christian movie, if we're gonna just talk about movies for a second, I think we would have to say it was made by like a Christian studio. Because if you think about like, if you think about the Prince of Egypt, and I just, I'm doing some research here on the side, that was DreamWorks, which DreamWorks has done all sorts of stuff. Pj: Thank Right. ⁓ yeah. Randy: If you look at the, even going back to the 10 commandments, which Harald and Heston, that was paramount pictures, right? And so you have all these other studios out there that might be making ⁓ content that's based on biblical stories and narratives. But I don't know if I would necessarily categorize that as Christian movies because of the fact that they're made by these other studios. In my mind, when I'm thinking more of Christian movies, I'm thinking of like the overtly Christian studios, like angels. Pj: Thank Well, yeah, but I mean that hasn't been around until recently ⁓ You know back in the day. I mean everybody did a little bit of everything there was you know ⁓ Something for everyone kind of mentality ⁓ and I mean I guess in that in that same and that same mentality would you say you know that like Randy: You're right. Pj: that I guess like Passion of the Christ and all that. That's one that you really like. Would you say that that's a Catholic movie because it was made, you know, you know, what's his name? And he's a devout Catholic. I wouldn't I wouldn't go that that far. know, Mel Gibson, I mean, he's I don't know. Randy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, no, that's a good question because that one was independent, right? That one was Mel Gibson. He produced that one independently. I don't even know what studio that would have been through. Let me look it up real quick. Pj: I don't necessarily remember seeing it. Randy: Let's see here. So Passion of the Christ. It's thinking, Icon Productions, the independent studio owned by Mel Gibson. that one's an indie film. yeah, I guess it makes it a little bit hard to define in terms of movies because it seems like you have this category where when we're talking about certain movies, have some studios like DreamWorks and Paramount. And even, you know, this independent one, Icon Productions that Mel Gibson owns, that does what you could consider secular as well as, you know, Christian movies. And then you have other studios like Angel, and I don't know if Angel had any predecessors that did strictly Christian films. But then you have that whole category, that whole genre itself, where, you know, it's explicitly just Christian. And in my opinion, it's mostly like Christian-themed. Pj: Yeah. Right. Randy: you know, stories that are marketed to Christian people. I don't see most of the movies, you know, that are coming out of, you know, things like Angel or like the explicitly Christian only studios as being marketed for everybody. Pj: You know what just just popped into my mind. I remember, you know, back in the good old days, whenever I was in school and they wheeled that that that TV in there, you know, I mean, on the shelf and stuff like that. And you'd watch movies. So you kind of knew you'd have like a lax day. But I remember what pops into mind is they had a movie ⁓ back then that they they watched. And actually, I loved it. It was called the ⁓ Buttercream Gang and ⁓ Randy: That sounds familiar to me, don't know, remind me, what was it about? I'm sure I've seen it. Pj: ⁓ yeah. So it was about two best friends. It was about this little clique, the Buttercream gang, and they were helping people and stuff like that. And Pete, one of the best friends, moves away to the city and gets introduced into a gang and he comes back and he starts the gang. And then him and his buddies, his old best friends are like butting heads. But it's very like, you know, I remember being like, ⁓ this is so edgy. Like Pete's just this bad guy. And he's like, you know, it was very cheesy. But Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj: So I think that there were were studios out there that made those kind of movies and obviously I think just in general, you know, I guess I'm talking about like the 80s early 90s at this point Like the whole culture was a lot different, you know the the things that were Acceptable compared to the things that are acceptable now or like night and day So but I don't know if that plays an effect or there were actually legitimately people trying to make that kind of content Randy: Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ I guess this is helping me to further like entrench my definition at least of what I'm going to call Christian media. And I'm going to say that it's media made by Christians for Christians. I would say, coming from an exclusively Christian production studio or record company or publisher of some sort. Like I think that's going to have to be my definition because I'm going to say in my opinion, movies that were made Pj: Ed. Randy: that were just more wholesome or maybe had a more positive message that came from a studio that did, you know, a variety of different genres. I'm not going to classify that in my mind as Christian, even though in some instances the message behind it is probably better than a lot of overtly Christian movies. Pj: Right. Hey, maybe you could jog my memory. Wasn't there a like a store that specifically only sold like, you know, religious stuff, like Christian based stuff, I guess? Well, I can't I can't remember. But there was a specific place, I want to say in Pueblo, we used to go like remember, if you wanted to buy like a. Randy: ⁓ yeah, there's all sorts of them. Yeah, there was the greatest gift in scripture supply in Pueblo was one of them. I know there's like Catholic ⁓ supply stores as well. What's the real big chain? There's a real big chain that we used to go to in Colorado Springs. ⁓ I can't think of it. ⁓ but yeah, but yeah, was like, you know, stores that pretty much only sold Christian movies, Christian TV shows, Christian books. Exactly. Pj: That's what I was thinking of, apply. Right, right. Right. You wouldn't find anything secular secular in there. Yeah. Yeah. Randy: It was a safe place to go shopping with your kids and anything they picked out, like you knew there wasn't going to be any profanity or nudity or anything negative in it. It was going to be very positive. Yeah. And so, so I think, I guess for me, I'm going to stick to that definition, man. I'm going to stick to definition that, you know, in my mind, what I'm calling Christian media is, is Christian made content targeted towards a Christian audience produced or distributed by, you know, ⁓ exclusively Christian. Pj: Yeah. Cough Randy: producer. So like Angel Studios is my example because it's it's it that's all they do. They're not doing ⁓ you know Toy Story one week and and you know ⁓ what do you call it? Jesus I can't think ⁓ Prince of Egypt. They're not doing they're not doing Toy Story one week and Prince of Egypt the next week right? They're just literally just you know sticking with that one channel. Pj: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, know, they are, like I said, it is more or less evolving as far as, I guess, that opening up that lane. I mean, there's different, there's different things out there now. There's one that I saw, I don't think it's Angel. Randy: Yeah. Pj: can't remember what it is, but basically, I guess like the principle behind it is, like you can take any movie and filter it through this site and it like removes like anything that's not family friendly. I can't remember what that one's called. Randy: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. But that's a little different though, because that you play regular movies through it, regular secular films, and it basically gives you a TV edited version on the other side of it. yeah, it cuts out all the negative stuff. I forget what that one's called, but that's another, a whole other, I think, whole other topic. Yeah. Pj: correct. Yes. Yeah. I got you. Randy: ⁓ Let's talk about music for a second because I think for me, I don't really have a problem with most Christian music because I like having different genres and knowing exactly what I'm getting. For example, if I'm going to listen to Christian hip hop, I know it's going to be hip hop. I know it's going to be mostly positive lyrics about Christ or about people's struggles and how they overcame them. ⁓ I don't have an issue with any of it. you know, I think that, you know, there's worship music that I think Personally, I could hear doctrine behind some of the worship music that I might not 100 % agree with and that's probably my biggest qualm with any kind of Christian music is that sometimes there There's you know, denominational, you know beliefs and doctrines that might come out say that again Pj: undertones. Yeah. I said doctrinal undertones that that kind of. Randy: Yeah, it's got some undertones and some of it, which, okay, it's like, you know, I'm very open-handed with things like that. So, ⁓ but I've heard stories of people who, you know, refuse to sing a song in church because it said things that they disagreed with. And, you know, I could, I can respect that. Pj: ⁓ man. Yeah. Yeah, I've yeah, I've heard stories and that's that's it's a wow thing. You know what mean? It's like, man, you know, it's, you know, not everybody's at the same place. You know what mean? Not everybody views everything through the same lens. I will tell you, I guess I do have kind of a qualm with some. ⁓ Randy: Yeah. Right. Pj: I guess, Christian music. And it's not a big deal. I mean, I can tell you right now there's one person that pops into my head just automatically thinking about this. And it's a singer called, his name is Blessin04, I believe. And man, I was introduced to him because I heard this song, Your Love, by him. And it's a beautiful song. Like I think I mentioned before, I was on my way home from work listening to it and it just broke me down. And so was very, I was very Randy: Yeah. Pj: you know, I was like, man, I like this guy, I wanna see what else he got. So I kind of looked into some of his music. And a matter of fact, he has another song ⁓ right now out on K Love that plays. And to be honest with you, I don't even remember what the name of it is. And it's because of this. So I guess, you know, I heard your love and you know, He says, you know, stars will fall from the sky one day, but when I'm lost, I'll call your name to keep me right in the middle of your love. And, and so, you know, that was my introduction. Well, this second song that I heard, I noticed that he never mentions God. You know what mean? He kind of flirts around with these ideas of Christian themes, but he never just comes out and is like, God, you know, I'm Jesus, I'm talking to you. And so that's, if I had to say, I'm like, man, like, Randy: Mmm. Right. Right, right. Pj: You know, fully commit, like, you know, come out and it's almost like you're on this line of being like, man, I want to be relatable to everybody. it's like, man, no, you know what I mean? Heck with the world. Sing to God. You know what I mean? I guess if you're going to do it, if you're going to be in that space, then be in that space. You know what mean? Randy: Right, right. Yeah Well, let me just come out against you a little bit and push back a little bit on that one. And I'm going to say you're wrong, but I don't really mean you're wrong. I just mean I disagree a little bit. Because I would say that there are artists that ⁓ I would say are not as explicit, but I've heard them and I'm like, wait a second, what did they just say? And it was almost like they were, you know, they were, you know, what's the term they use today? Dog whistle. It was almost like it was a dog whistle that me as a Christian, was like, ⁓ this guy is a Christian singing this song. Pj: I never heard that before, but that makes sense. Randy: Yeah, yeah. So like, for example, I will tell you years ago, I was walking in a Hastings. Remember Hastings? It's a, you know, bookstore, media store, everything store, but it wasn't just Christian store. was like, you know, everything, right? You could buy books, movies. Yeah. Melting pot, everything. Even sold like collectibles, like, you know, figurines and things like that. And I remember hearing a Lifehouse song as I was walking through. Never heard of Lifehouse. Pj: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Melting pot. Yeah. Bye bye. Randy: never knew who this was. I just heard the song and some of the lyrics stood out to me because I was like, this sounds like it's Christian, but I never heard them say Jesus. I never heard them say God. And honestly, like I went home and I Googled some of the lyrics and that's how I found out who it was because I Googled the lyrics and then I found them. And so I started listening to them and I became a huge fan and most of their songs. And I think this is a criticism that you might agree with that I've heard a lot of Christians talk about with bands like Life Houses. If you didn't know they were talking about God, you could almost think they were just a love song. And it's kind of ambiguous like that, which honestly, I don't really have a personal issue with. kind of think that that's okay. To me, like it's, it doesn't always have to be as overt or as explicit, but I think there are times when I do want it to be like worship music, for example, I would prefer that it's more ⁓ overt and explicit. And, and, and when I'm listening to like some rock or some pop or even some hip hop, I'm okay if it's not. Pj: Yeah, I don't know. It's like ⁓ I get it. And like I said, I'm not just because I love life house still to this day. No Name Face album is a classic, in my opinion. I love I love pretty much every song on that album. ⁓ And man, like I said, I'm just saying, I guess if I had to pick something and that's because I guess like for me, I just and don't get me wrong, I agree. There is a place for that kind of thing. It's like introduction. Randy: Yep. Pj: like an introduction, right? To at least just some kind of positive, you know, ⁓ reinforcement, if you will. But like, it would be like, you ⁓ know, calling this, you know, the Walk Talk Faith in Motion podcast. And then anytime we're talking about scripture, we're like, that guy in there who did that thing. You know I mean? It's like, you know what mean? Randy: ⁓ Yeah, I get your sentiment. I think that's a little extreme, but yeah. Pj: Yeah, I'm just saying like it just to me it's like man just like and look I guess Randy: We're very overt with our podcast calling it Walk Talk Faith in Motion. If we called it like two brothers having a conversation and sometimes we just talked about, you know, life and raising kids. And sometimes we talked about work and sometimes we talked about scriptures. That'd be a little different. Pj: Yeah, but no, guess like for, you know, like with Lifehouse, like you had to kind of go deep diving to, but I'm saying to know that where they were coming from. And I guess even in that way, it's like, okay, listen, you know what? Yeah, I'm a Christian guy and I make music and this is the tone of my heart. you know, I might not say it, just, you know, kind of, I don't know, I don't know. just... ⁓ Randy: ⁓ I did. Yeah. Pj: I guess it first was a line of to me feeling like like, you ashamed to proclaim the name of Jesus? I'm Randy: Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this because I had some questions here in mind and you kind of already hitting on the second one. In your opinion, does the media in general have to mention Jesus or the gospel explicitly for you to consider it Christian? Pj: No, no, I don't. I don't think so. And again, this goes back to like, guess I would be in the camp of saying like, you know, even though it's not a explicitly Christian studio putting together something, if the content is in line with basically morals, beliefs, kind of, you know, in line with scripture, then I would say, welcome. You know, Randy: Okay. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I would say that in general, I would probably generally agree with that. I don't think it necessarily always has to be overt or explicitly mention Jesus. However, let me do let me do go back a little bit to the worship music topic, because I do have a bone to pick with some worship music. And here's why. And first of all, let me just start off by saying when it comes to worship music, like I love worship music. I think like for me, if I went to a church that did like 50 minutes of worship and 10 minutes of preaching, that would be my church because I'm one of those people who like, really get into it and I really enjoy it. And there's just something about the live music and like worshiping like with other believers that really like does something for me. And in my opinion, like the whole worship part of service is meant to kind of prepare your heart for the message. And so like, don't think it's right for people to come in late. don't I want to get there early. I don't want to miss any part of it. I don't want to be distracted. I want it to just soak in and then prepare me for the message. However, I will say that there are lots of Christian songs that are not worship songs that are played. during worship time, and that's kind of a little bit of a pet peeve of mine. And I can't give you any examples off the top of my head, and even if I could think of them, I don't know if I'd want to call them out here, but not everything that plays on the Christian radio station is a worship song, so they shouldn't all be sung during worship time, in my opinion. Pj: I got you. you would you would heavily distinguish praise versus worship, right? Like I I ⁓ would Randy: Well, I mean, not necessarily. I would kind of lump praise and worship together, but I would say there are some Christian songs that play on the radio that's more talking about a person and their individual walk with God in their faith more than praising or worshipping the Father. Pj: Yeah. Well, like, and I guess I would, I would separate them because it's like, you know, if you're praising God for what he's done in your life, you know, if it's one of those songs, like, you know, I guess more where, where it's, it's, it's kind of, you're involved in yourself. It's not necessarily just worshiping God. Like this is all dedicated specifically to you, but just kind of just talking about God in a more general sense of like, look, you know, I've seen you do this and I've seen you do that. It's not just like, Lord, I love you. Here I am. I'm surrendered kind of thing. Randy: Yeah. Well, like Amazing Grace, in my opinion, is a praise song. Like you're praising God for saving you. Like this is what you've done for me. You saved the wretch like me. Right? was, well, I was lost. Now I'm found. You have saved me. Right? Like it's, to me, that's a praise of God and a worship of God. But to me, it's more focused on praise. But there's some songs that I just feel like they're very catchy. They're poppy. And they're not necessarily praise or worship, but they do play on Christian channels. And so they end up being sung in church. Pj: I can get that and I want to say two things here. So first one would be a couple episodes back. I remember you brought up a tree 63 song and I, but, you had tried to. Yeah. Yeah. So I, Randy: Yep. Look what you've done for me. What could I do for you? Yeah. Yeah. Which is a great song. I love. Pj: But yeah, so I went and listened to it because I was like, man, I don't remember like the melody yet, sung it to, but I was like, okay, I mean, yeah, no, no, well, it wasn't even that it was just I think it was like a little bit different cadence that threw me off. But anyways, I love that song. So I do want to share that with you. But, you know, I guess this is not necessarily in line with and I totally get what you're saying. And I know that there's people that I've talked to that that kind of feel the same way. It's like Randy: Yeah, I can't sing, yeah. Yeah. Pj: pick there's a time and a place for different kinds of music. And if we're worshipping, let's worship God. And I got some more things on that in a second, but I guess kind of to that same point, ⁓ you know, songs that kind of do that for me, it's like whenever I stop and think about it, a song that would be framed as a Christian song. And I guess, like you said, not to call anybody out. But but there is a Colton Dixon song. Randy: Right. Pj: that I like and my kids like and it's called the Devil is a Liar. You know what mean? it's basically the song is just about devil is a liar says he can give you anything that you desire. Randy: Well, let me jump in real quick because that's another pet peeve of mine is I don't want to sing about the devil at church. I don't want to mention the devil at all. Pj: Right. well, I'm not saying I'm not saying that that's that's played in church. But what I'm saying is that plays on a Christian station. And so what I found was like, you know, I like the song is a catchy song sounds good. But I'm like, I'm like, hold up, you know, kind of like I told you before, in psychology class, I'm like, we're singing about the devil being a liar. But basically, this whole song is dedicated to the devil. And you're a Christian artist on a Christian channel singing about how bad the devil is. And it's like, well, Randy: Sure, sure. Yeah. Right. Well Pj: You're making him the focal point. don't care if you're talking bad about him. He's the focal point right now. And I was kind of like, hmm. Randy: Yeah. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I've kind of just focused more about, you know, the way it shows up in church services and worship services, because I always kind of get like a lot of times I'll be honest, a lot of times I won't sing those songs when it's any kind of reference to the devil. ⁓ But I never really thought about it beyond just the worship service and just, you know, as part of like just Christian, like pop music in general. But I definitely agree with you. think that it's, you know, in most cases, maybe not every case, but in most cases, I would say it's probably not a good idea because you are making the devil, the enemy, a focus of your song. Why would you do that when you can make God the focus? And if you want to, you know, at some point in the song mentioned that the devil's been defeated or death has been defeated, great. But when it's part of the chorus or the name of the song or the theme of the whole song, I think that's when you start to get off a little bit. Pj: Right, right. Yeah, I think there's a huge difference between, you know, singing the devil is a liar and being revolving around that. Then like that song where, you know, she's like the enemy thought he had me, but Jesus said you were mine. Like, OK, you know, there's yeah, 100 percent like that's a whole different, you know, tone. So yeah. Randy: Yeah. That's different, yeah. That's yes, I agree. I agree. And I would sing that and I would not sing the Colton Dixon song. So I mean, so when it comes to worship, that's my two things. Like I think it should be focused on God and worshiping and praising and not focused on just celebration or anything else. That's number one for me. And number two is I don't really, you know, get any value out of, you know, any song that references the devil that much. Like ⁓ it has to be very short and subtle for me to even. Pj: Right. Randy: consider singing it, but when it's like overt and it's part of the chorus or just the main theme, I'm, I'm not singing it. Yeah. Pj: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I guess, you know, might've been just like a little, a little nudge from the Holy Spirit. Like, hey, ⁓ I know, I know, I kind of, I know what's going on here, but let's just be more mindful. Like we're, you're, the last three minutes singing about the devil and what he does and who he is and how he moves and, you know. Randy: Right, right. Well, and in just the same way we were just talking about Lifehouse, right? Like we both are fans of Lifehouse. However, I wouldn't want to sing Lifehouse like in church service, in my worship service. Like even I. Pj: I think there was maybe one song that you could classify as like a more very, you deep worship. Randy: I mean, I think there's some deep ones that are obviously worship, but because of the fact that they never explicitly or overtly say the name of Jesus or mention God, I wouldn't want to make them on the, you know, part of the worship rotation. That's all I'm saying. Like they, like I may, I may drive in my car and listen to it and feel like I, I enter into like a state of worship, but I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want my band at church to play them is all I'm saying. Pj: I got you. Hi, guys. I got you. And going back to that, think it's just one of those things, right, where you're just kind of like, you're with the church body, right, and the spirit starts moving. And I think you feel that, like, just, you know, it's like, feel your spirit is heightened in that moment. And the people around you's spirit is heightened. And I think there's just like this cool flow of, like, everybody feeling like this, like, we are the body. And I think that that's kind of what gets you there and why those moments just feels kind of just extra, like, Randy: Right, right. Pj: and just honed in. Randy: And there's a power to live music, man. There really is. Like there is a power to music. And I think it's undeniable that, you know, there's that saying that, you know, music could tame the savage beast or whatever. And I think there's definitely an element of that, that the right music could bring out like the worship side of you and other music could bring out like an animal side of you. Pj: That's the second episode that you've referenced that. we're going to have to fact check that quote to make sure that it's right. Because I don't know. I know I kind of feel like I there's something like, yeah, listen, we already know I watch our episodes back. So I've heard you say it. But no, and each time you've said it, though, this is only the second time. But I'm like, man, I know what he's talking about. There's a quote, something like that. I don't know if that's necessary. I don't know if that's necessarily it or not. Randy: I don't remember saying that before. When did I say that? Yeah Well, what's the quote? Now I gotta look it up because now I need to know. Pj: But, yeah, yeah, man. And it is, it is awesome, man. I do. And I mean, obviously, you know, there's something to it, which is why all of these concerts, you got hundreds of thousands of people in these arenas, because I think there's something about that, that communal bond of, of, singing, you know, together. And, you know, obviously on the other side of the spectrum, you know, I mean, there's, there's some pretty crazy examples of, you know, some of these these demonic concerts that kind of go down these days. It's just it's It's wild. Randy: Right, right. Okay, just to to fact check myself, the quote that I got here off AI says, the quote is music has charms to soothe a savage beast. Often misquoted as soothe the savage beast. I don't know. So I don't know. Anyway, let's let's Pj: Wow. I thought it was something like music soothes the soul or something, but I don't know. All right. I thought we were not making the beat the focal point. hey. Hey, know what's good? Listen, ladies and gentlemen. Randy: No man, it's a beast dude. It's definitely the beast. That's yeah. But hey, but hey, we're just right to regular guys here. We don't have any kind of degrees or doctrinal likes qualifications. So disclaimer. Pj: He made, he made it into at least 30 minutes of the episode before getting there. So I think we're making progress. Randy: Yeah, just disclaimer out there. You can't take anything we say with more than a grain of salt because ⁓ apparently even our ability to quote, you know, just popular opinions is ⁓ flawed. So, but I do want to pivot to movies because I think when it comes to movies, we've had a few conversations briefly and I know we disagree on at least one movie and at least one TV series. And so I want to talk quickly about nefarious. Pj: Hey. Yeah. Okay. Randy: And then I do want to talk about the, ⁓ what's the popular TV show everyone's been watching, The Chosen. Yeah, I want to talk about those two because I think we disagree on those two and then any other movies or TV shows that you want to bring up. But let's start with Nefarious because that's most recent. I know you said you watched it and you have some opinions. Pj: Nefarious man. The chosen. Yes, I, I, I would recommend that anybody watching this go watch Nefarious, man. I listen and don't don't I'm not going to hype it up because I think that that's what happened ended up being your problem was it was kind of hyped up to me. I just kind of stumbled across it. Matter fact, I want to say it was maybe like Pastor Mark Driscoll ⁓ sat down with the guy who made it. And so I checked it out, man. ⁓ You know, for the Randy: Yeah. That's that's why I checked it out too, because I heard an interview with the guy who made it and it sounded like a good movie sounded like a different type of Christian movie than what I've typically seen. But tell me what you liked about it. Pj: Man, I guess it was one of those things because it wasn't, I didn't necessarily think it was framed as ⁓ a Christian movie. I felt like it had Christian themes as I was watching it. And I think that it just, for the person who doesn't necessarily, I think kind of similar to what you were saying in reference to this music. I think a person who was just trying to watch a ⁓ Randy: Mmm. Pj: Like a horror movie, which is I think how they kind of framed it as far as I remember, got a realistic, mean, granted, yeah, it wasn't the biggest budget or whatever, but I think that they got a message that I think was important and valuable. You know what mean? Like that's what the other side looks like, man. And it's a real thing. And that's scary enough. It doesn't have to be gory or whatever. It's some real things. Randy: So I'm glad you said what you just said because you're highlighting one of my problems that I have in general with Christian movies is that they prioritize the message over the storytelling. And that is my primary qualm with almost every Christian movie that I dislike is they prioritize the message, they want to get the gospel out there, and they focus on that so much that they don't do a good job of telling a story. And we've all seen movies where there was an agenda behind it, whether it was, you know, Pj: Mm-hmm. Randy: the new woke stuff that they've been pushing in movies recently, or some other political environmental agenda. And we hate those movies, right? We watched those movies and we're like, ⁓ it's so gross because it could have been a good movie, but they spent the whole time pushing this agenda. And honestly, even as a Christian, I feel the same way about most Christian movies. I feel like they focus so much on pushing that story, on pushing or telling that message. Pj: ⁓ my goodness. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hey. Randy: They don't do a good job of telling the story and that's kind of how I felt about Nefarious to be honest with you and let me just say this first of all disclaimer Boondock Saints one of my all-time favorite movies and Right, so the the guy who's possessed by the demon in the show is like the older brother from the Boondock Saints, right? The older less popular brother because his younger brother was Norman Reedus Pj: And that's why I watched it. I'm like, he's he's in there. Norman Reed is yeah, yeah blew up. Randy: who was in The Walking Dead, right? So he's blown up. He's blown up as a megastar. But the older brother from that movie, you know, just like most older brothers kind of, you know, got forgotten and, you know, passed over because, you know, the younger brothers come along and get all the attention. Pj: Well and and look that's Well, that's that's literally why, because I saw that guy and I'm like, you know, Boondock Saints is very it resonates with you and I, know, very, very much. And so I was like, man, I'm I'm I'm definitely interested in maybe maybe I went into it with with kind of that on my heart to like thinking about, ⁓ well, you know, this connection between you and I kind of things. But but but yeah, man. And so, man, that's I mean, you just. Randy: Yeah. But let me just say again, I went in wanting to like that movie because I like that actor, because I saw an interview with the director and I liked what he had to say about it. And I just went in thinking, okay, this is going to be a different kind of Christian movie. And I will be honest with you, I watched about maybe 20 minutes of it and we turned it off because I was just like, it just seems so unrealistic to me. I mean, just the dialogue between the two main characters, I just felt like this is not how a demon possessed person would really talk. Pj: Well, I... Randy: It just felt cheesy. felt like there was like an obvious message they were trying to get across and it just, it turned me off. Pj: And no, see, I totally agree in that aspect. Excuse me, disagree in that aspect. Because I think that we've got so accustomed ⁓ from growing up in movies like The Exorcist and especially as of lately, ⁓ you know, all the movies with the Warrens, the Conjuring movies, like it's very, very in your face graphic demon possession. And realistically, you know, I... I believe in alignment with like, you know, ⁓ Pastor Mark Driscoll, who's preached on, you know, new days, old demons kind of thing where, know, the, see these, these same characteristics over different periods of time all over the world, where these, these same kind of things kind of manifest themselves. And, and, so, so I would say like, you know, we think of demon possession as like, you know, head spinning, throwing up green vomit, but I think that that Randy: Sure, sure. Pj: that people who are walking around with demons whispering in their ears that end up killing themselves or being bad off on drugs or what have you, I think that those things do manifest themselves a little bit more subtly. I do. Randy: Well, I agree. I agree. But maybe it was just the portrayal. Maybe it was a good actor with a bad performance because just the way he talked and just like he came across with this air of like superiority, like almost everything he said, he was stupid and have to communicate with such a lowly life form as ⁓ the lawyer that he was talking to. don't know. was just maybe it was the performance itself that I just was, you know, not not vibing with. But I would say this, I would say that I have never been a horror movie fan. Pj: Yeah, I got you. Randy: Like I don't watch any of those movies, even the Exorcist, I've never seen the whole movie. But I will say like, if you want to talk just like suspense and creating like that, like suspenseful feeling, think ⁓ Night Shyamalan's movies do a way better job than that movie did. And his movies don't have a lot of gore or like a lot of like, know, a lot of the typical horror elements. just like, they create this atmosphere of like uncertainty and suspense. Pj: Right. Randy: We talked about previously like, you know, this movie, Sixth Sense, for example, that's a good example where it's like, there's not like a lot of like gore or like, you know, lot of violence or anything like that, but it just creates this like feeling of suspensefulness the whole time. And I think that's kind of what they were going for. It just didn't do it for me. Pj: Yeah. And see, ⁓ Night's very, very good at building up to reveal the dumbest point ever. So I mean, like his movies go out. Yeah. He. And then just let's get down at the end. Yeah. Randy: Right. He's the opposite, right? He's the opposite. He's the guy who was like wanting to tell a good story, right? However, however, since we're on that topic, you know, I think in the movie signs, he actually did do a good job of storytelling with the good message because that's a story about faith. I mean, it's all about a guy who was, I think he was a priest or a pastor or some sort. was some sort of pastor who lost his faith when he lost his wife. Right. And then in the moment, yeah, it's about aliens evading and all this, but in the moment he remembers, he remembers things that his wife told him as she was dying that ends up saving them. Right. Swing away was one of them. Right. Swing away. ⁓ I forgot the guy's name in the movie. but yeah. Pj: Thank Swing away. Swing away. Yeah. Was it Mel Gibson? Was it not Mel Gibson? That wasn't, I don't know. Randy: No, no, she said Swing Away something, the kid's name. was the guy played by Joaquin Phoenix, his character. Yeah, I forget his character's name, but it was, she said Swing Away Chuck or whatever his name was. Pj: ⁓ But, but no, I guess getting back on track to what you said about, you know, your pet peeve with Christian movies. I would say that I can understand and see your point because I think that a lot of times ⁓ we do that with each other. know, ⁓ we try to share our faith and share the gospel and Sometimes we think that in order to do that, we have to be overly pushy. Like, Hey, do know about Jesus? Do you love Jesus? Have you met Jesus? And, and, sometimes I think that it's best to take the same approach that Jesus took with us, which is meet them where they are. Right. I guess you could, you could be preaching to them by just loving on them. Hey man, how's it going? What, kind of things are you into? And I've, and I've seen, I've seen the fruits of those things. Like I've seen people who are very standoffish because they're like, man, Randy: Yes. Great point. Yep. Pj: You know, you're one of them Christians, y'all, or this, that, the other. I'm like, man, I can talk to you on your level. You know what I mean? ultimately, don't they say actions speak louder than words? Well, let me exhibit, you know what I mean, the characteristics and traits of the person that I love and serve and call Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior. But I don't got to start throwing Jesus at you off the bat. And you're just like, man, I don't want to hear it. You know what I mean? In my opinion. Randy: Right, Yeah. You know, yeah, you know, and I'm with you there and I'm not trying to be judgmental about other Christians who do, you know, are very pushy or very overt. like every time you ask them like how their day is, ⁓ I'm having this blessed day. Like, OK, like I think that sometimes people, my opinion, could be a little bit, you know, too. They come on a little bit too strong. But I'm not I'm not here to judge anybody. You know what mean? But I get what you're saying. And I feel I feel like it's very similar with the movies, you know, because I'm just going to throw it out there now. I think there's a lot of Pj: No. Randy: Christian movies that I just can't stand because they focus too much on the message. Whereas there's a lot of quote unquote secular movies that I think have an even stronger message about faith and about salvation and about God than a lot of the Christian movies do. And they're reaching a lot more people because they're focusing on the storytelling. And I've already mentioned one. I do think Signs, in all honesty, is one of those movies that has a better message about faith, even though it's based in sci-fi and not in, coming from a Christian studio. I think the book of Eli is another one. Even though there is some violence and some stuff in there that it's not for everybody, overall message is a message about faith. You got a guy who's protecting the Bible and trying to reintroduce the word of God into a fallen post-apocalyptic world who only survives for like 40 years because he believes in the words of this book. Pj: Good, yeah. Right. Yeah, because of his faith from before. And also, you know, on the flip side of that, you have another guy who's trying to use the word of God because he understands his power like the devil, but wants to use it, wants to use it for evil. you know, that that is a great, a great movie, man. And, know, ⁓ that almost that that movie makes me think about the time period. Right. So after. Randy: Right? To control people. Yeah. Pj: after tribulation, right? know, ⁓ tribulation happens, you know, it's going to devastate this planet. And then there's going to be the thousand years of peace, but there's going to be like, you know, basically the ruins and people are still going to be able to sin and all this stuff. And it's like, I can see it like kind of taking place in that time where like, you know, civilization has been wiped out, all the, you know, church has been raptured away. And there's been this, you know, this big cataclysmic just event like Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj: So yeah, book of Eli is legit. It does have some stuff that would kind of, you know, maybe. Right. But and and I would say that in the same way, you know, like, like we said, not picking on on on any brothers or sisters in Christ who go out there and are just like, you know, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. I think that there's both are necessary. And I think that people God calls different people to different positions for different reasons, obviously, you know, to be a fully functional body. You know what I mean? ⁓ Randy: Yeah, not suitable for all audiences, but Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Pj: And so I think that there's a time and place for people like that. And I think that there's a time and place for other people who can just kind of, you go out there and, you know, I guess be a little, all right, right, right. Yeah. Randy: Yeah, just not for me. That's all I'm saying. Not for me. But I will say, let me throw out a couple other, a couple more movies that I think are along the same vein as like the book of Eli. So I think the Shawshank Redemption, I think that's a story as well that has a lot of faith built into it. And I also think, ⁓ ⁓ The Count of Monte Cristo, which is one of my favorite books and the favorite movies of all time You know, it's about like, you know this guy who's struggling with like should he like give in to like his anger and his feelings of revenge or should he trust in God to let you know vengeance is mine saith the Lord and let let God handle it and let him forgive and move past and heal and focus more on love than on revenge like I think like those are both really good movies that have really good faith-based messages in them, even though they weren't made by Christian studios, they weren't made by Pj: favorite, yeah. Randy: Christians for Christians and even some of the people in them are so far from being Christians. mean, obviously with, you know, Passion of the Christ, Jim Caviso was in Passion of the Christ. He's a strong Christian. He was also in ⁓ Count of Monte Cristo. But then, you you got other folks like in the Shawshank Redemption that I don't know where they are with their faith, but they still managed to tell a good story that has a lot of faith components in it. Pj: Yeah. Man, know, ⁓ one movie that really kind of caught me off guard and I was like, man, like it, I guess maybe because I wasn't going into it ⁓ with, I don't know, thinking that, this is going to be a Christian movie. I don't know what it was or anyways. ⁓ There's ⁓ the movie about George Foreman and the life of George Foreman. Like I think it's called. Randy: I haven't seen that one yet. Pj: I think it's just called Foreman. And I'm like, cool, man. I like George Foreman. He was a great boxer, you know, blah, blah. And like, man, it's crazy because it does tell his story. But then it also tells about how he died. And then he came back to life basically and gave his life to God. And I was like, whoa, I didn't even know this side of George Foreman. Like, I knew he boxed and I he sold grills. I didn't know like he became a pastor and all kinds of stuff. But it was a really good movie, man, in my opinion. ⁓ And so in the same in the same lane as what you're talking about. ⁓ Randy: Wow. Pj: the movie that comes to mind. And I mean, granted, it's a stretch, but I know it was intentionally done like this. But I remember, man, this was years and years ago. Now, this is probably pushing like, I don't know, seven, eight years ago. I remember telling you, like, man, I just watched this movie and you're like, what was it? I was like this movie Mother. And I was like, but, it was it was crazy. I said, I don't even. I said, dude, I watched the whole movie. said, I don't even know what was going on. And you were like, well, what was it about? And so I started telling you. And then I realized like, it's the story of the Bible. So it's got Jennifer Lawrence in it. that, that, that, that, no, no, you, you, don't think you have, but I remember telling you about it. ⁓ Yeah. So I'm trying to think. ⁓ Randy: Hmm. I don't think I've ever seen it. ⁓ okay. Pj: Anyways, I know it's got Jennifer Lawrence and I can't remember the big dark guy's name in it. But but yeah, man, it's it's basically, you know, it starts off with, you know, these people that show up. think Michelle Pfeiffer is in there and her and this guy is basically representing Adam and Eve. But anyways, it just follows this like story arc of like biblical things. And the crazy thing was I sat there and I watched it trying to figure out like, what is this movie about? What's going on? And it wasn't until I was basically like explaining to you what happened in the movie that I started. Like, wait, like, wait, that's not like Adam and Eve, wait, that's not like Cain and Abel, wait, that's not like, you know, this, that, the other. So, yeah, it was it was kind of. No, no. ⁓ I. Randy: Hmm so was it more of a parody or well, I mean Well, how would you describe it? I mean were they actually trying to like give validity to the Bible or retell it in I don't know Pj: Yeah, yeah, there. Yes. So I think the guy's name is Javier Boredom or something like that. ⁓ And basically, he is supposed to represent ⁓ God in the movie, according to like, you know, I went like after I had this conversation with you and I was like, ⁓ man, I see ⁓ this. I basically kind of see how this this lines up with with the Bible. I went and looked it up and they did this on purpose. So like I said, so ⁓ Javier Bordem or however you say his name is basically supposed to be God and Jennifer Lawrence's Mother Earth. like I said, the Michelle Pfeiffer character is Eve. And I can't remember the guy that he's pretty well known also. Ed Harris, ⁓ he's like Adam and then. Randy: Yeah. Pj: ⁓ Yeah, it is. It's just like, I mean, if you watch it, like, with that in mind, you're like, ⁓ I see what they did here. And I mean, it gets a little bit out of control, because like, according to the person who made it, you know, like I said, Jennifer Lawrence is supposed to be Mother Earth. And then at the end, ⁓ she like, burns the house down that is supposed to, I guess, represent the world with oil, showing that the world is, you know, that we're killing the world with oil or some some crazy thing. It got it got a little bit, you know, sideways towards the end. Randy: sounds like it gets yeah well that you know that reminds me of when you're talking about that it reminds me of the matrix because the matrix you got Neo who is obviously a Christ figure and you know he dies to save everybody in the trill in the third movie however even though you have this like overt comparison to Jesus I wouldn't call that a faith movie I wouldn't call that a Christian movie I wouldn't say it's like a wholesome it's it's okay I mean it's an entertaining movie I don't know I'm I'm not hating on the matrix I like the matrix Pj: but. Yes. Okay. No. Randy: But like if I was going to, you know, look for a movie that had a strong message that I want to share with my kids, for example, I would go to like the book of Eli over the matrix, even though the matrix has this very clear parallel between Neo and Christ. Pj: Oh yeah, and absolutely. mean, they incorporate things on purpose, which I believe like this other movie did, but like the Nebuchadnezzar, you know what I mean, is the name of the ship. Randy: Yeah, there's lots of like symbolism and like, you know, borrowed names and phrases and repeat. They repeat a lot of themes from the Bible, even though, like I said, in my opinion, it's not like a Christian movie or even a faith movie that I'd want to share, you know, with anybody who, you know, I'd want to, you know, advise they watch it if they're looking for a good, you know, message. Like I said, nothing wrong with it. Entertaining movie. But, you know, I would rather watch that than God's Not Dead. Pj: Right, ⁓ absolutely. Randy: I'd rather watch that than ⁓ The Chosen. I'd rather watch that than, you know, most of the popular Christian movies that I've watched in the last decade. But I'll watch them one time and get the message. And most of the time I walk away feeling like, hey, that was just too cheesy and they focus too much on, you know, preaching at people versus telling a good story. Pj: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, again, I do believe that there's, there's, you know, an audience for, for things that are a little bit more preachy. And I do believe that there is, there is a space for it. And I do think it's good to have. I can understand just saying, Hey, look, that's not necessarily for me. ⁓ but, but Randy: Yeah. So let's talk about the chosen, because I know you like the chosen. Pj: So I do like The Chosen. There's still some things that I don't really like about The Chosen. And I will say, I'll go ahead and lump that in with ⁓ The House of David. I like The House of David as a series. For me, what it is is I enjoy watching, being able to see the Bible come to life. These stories that... Randy: Visualize it, yeah, yeah. Pj: right, these stories that I've just basically had in my head. I like seeing those things. What I don't like again is like I said, you know, like the biggest ones that I can remember that it did was Noah's Ark with Russell Crowe and that was terrible. They didn't. It's not biblical. And and they did it. Randy: Mm-hmm. Well, when you say it's not biblical, they changed a big part of the story. Right. Yeah. Pj: 100%. They've changed a bunch of big parts of the story. But I mean, I'd say it's not OK. I'll say it's not biblically accurate. That's a better way of putting it. Randy: Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you. I did like a lot of things about Noah, but I think I didn't like about it is what you're alluding to. It's the fact that they really changed the whole intent of the flood and they changed Noah's character from being, you know, somebody who was really faithful to God and, you know, was, you know, aligned with God's mission, which was to wipe out evil. And they made it almost like an environmental movie, like, we got to get rid of people. Pj: death. Well, and not all yet and not even only that, but they had the main antagonist survive on the Ark with them. Like, you know what mean? Like he snuck on board like. Randy: Yeah, some of that creative license that they take I like in some movies like I'll be honest in the Prince of Egypt they take a lot of creative license and I loved it but in Noah I didn't I didn't like it. Pj: Well, no. And I'll say that, I can agree with that. Like, if they have to take a creative license, like, so one of the things in the House of David, right? So King Saul's wife is like, they mentioned her name. So they had to like, well, he obviously has a queen, you know, so they took some creative licenses with that and just kind of incorporated her in a way that didn't really affect whether or not it was biblical or not, for the most part. But like stuff that they did where they like, you know, they gave ⁓ David a sister called Ava. That's like, well, she might have, but that's not mentioned in the Bible. We don't know. And then like they keep referring to himself as a bastard. And it's like, well, you know, thinking that David's father was with his mother and then she died. And I'm like, that's not all things in the Bible. And it's like, so it's like to me, I could I can understand whenever there's not enough like you know, there to kind of go one way or the other. But whenever there's facts that are being skewed or left out or changed, and I'm like, like, man, just, you know, you're doing this for the purpose of your faith. Like you I'm sure these people were making these want to see their faith come alive also. And so it's like, man, just kind of, you know, let's let's let's stay within within the scriptures, I guess, for me. But I mean, I do I think that, again, that there's that there's a Randy: Right, right. Pj: a time and a place for those things. And I do think that it's better than watching some other crap that they put on TV. You know what mean? But it's just, man, it's like, you know, I guess I kind of feel about it the same way I do about people who like go to church because I just think that that's what they're supposed to do. And they listen to a pastor's perspectives and opinions and never get in their Bible. And so it's like they're just taking all these things that face value. So I guess what I'm getting at is Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj: There are people who would watch The Chosen or watch The House of David or watch this Christian movie. And that's their God experience. And that's all they're ever going to get. You know what mean? And they take those things like as, well, this is if these Christians are making it, then they're making it accurate. And then it just kind of it blurs the lines, so to speak. Randy: Right, right. Sure, Yeah, and where I'm coming from is I think, you you mentioned a couple times if it's, you know, some people find joy in it or they find good entertainment and, you know, good on them. I think the opposite is often the case where people assume just because, you know, you're a Christian, you automatically are gonna like something like The Chosen. Like, and trust me, like The Chosen is a show I wanted to like a lot. Like, I think I watched most of season one. Pj: Okay. Randy: ⁓ But my problem with The Chosen is the same problem I have with most Christian movies and TV shows is they focus too much on the message. And even so on this one, it's like they focus a lot on the message more than the storytelling, but also like the storytelling itself is like ⁓ the creative license they had to take to make what are in a lot of cases, very short stories into like entire episodes or themes throughout episodes. To me just wasn't well done and it could have been done a lot better ⁓ You know, it's the kind of same problem that I've had with like, you know like a lot of people have issues with like the last couple of seasons of like Game of Thrones because the books were not finished and so they didn't have this rich content to pull from so the showrunners had to make stuff up or like the ⁓ The the Hobbit movies, right? So there's one short book called The Hobbit and three very long movies about that same story and it's like all the filler, all the made up stuff, all the creative license that they have to take to make one short book into three long movies, to me usually waters it down so much that I just can't get into it. And that's kind of how I felt about The Chosen. I wanted to like it, I really liked the guy who played Jesus, I really liked the idea like you said of being able to visualize the Bible and see these stories come to life. But for me, a lot of it came across as too watered down or too weakly ⁓ portrayed or just too cheesy in general. Pj: Man, it's funny because I mean, I went into like I wouldn't use the word preachy, but I went into it expecting it to be like that. Like I basically wanted to see the live Matthew, Mark, Luke and John books. You know what mean? Like and and man, I'm not going to lie. Like I I really liked the way that they did certain things. Like what really got me was I really liked, you know, the incorporation of like at the end whenever I think it's like the first episode whenever Mary he tells Mary like you know I've called you by name and now you're mine because I'm like you know you know that's right out of the scripture so it's like it just kind of it sold that that backstory like when I remember in the first episode Nicodemus was was telling like ⁓ you know you can't eat fish that was caught on Shabbat like that's you know what goes until your body defiles you and we know that Jesus said it's not but you know Randy: Right, right. It's not what goes in, it's what comes out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pj: That's how it goes into you. That defies you is what comes out. Right. So, so those little things, I was like, man, I liked those things. And I thought that they were, you know, cleverly done. And I did feel like, like that Jonathan Rumi did a good job of like not being like a, like a, a ⁓ feminine Jesus. Like I think he was a pretty masculine guy, but at the same, not the most masculine, but I liked the way he, he has like, You know, there's times whenever he just seems like a guy, then there's times whenever like he has this way of like conveying these emotions as just like in his, in his face that kind of gives you this like Jesus vibe. Like you, get this genuine. Randy: Yeah. And I'll be honest, I have a different portrayal of him. I think that he does an okay job. I think he's not the most feminine Jesus that we've seen portrayed, but you know, he's closer to the middle, but even a little bit to me, a little bit over that line over where I would say, you know, the way I picture Jesus, I do picture him being as a compassionate guy, which I think he does do a great job of showing the compassionate side, but I don't see the strength. as predominant as I picture when I read the scriptures. And that's one thing that I think is hard. I mean, that's hard for any actor to portray. How do you portray this like tough? Because I mean, Jesus was a man's man. Men followed him for a reason. He was a tough dude who flipped tables and beat people with whips, but he was also the guy who, yeah, son of a carpenter, knew how to work with his hands, but also knew how to cry with people and had compassion for people. Pj: Son of a carpenter, yeah. Randy: And so that's tough to portray. And I think he's done about as good a job as anybody except for maybe, I mean, my all time favorite Jesus is Jim Caviezel. I mean, you can't beat the passion of the Christ. Pj: Tim Cavievo. My favorite all time Jesus is Jesus. My favorite all time Jesus, Jim Cavievo. Or real Jesus. ⁓ Randy: Well, well, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. But, but I do want to, I do want to say this though. I have had, I don't know if you've had the opportunity, but I've had, I have had the opportunity of seeing a couple of like plays like live action, you know, plays of, know, different biblical stories. And even though they are not, I didn't buy the videos afterwards because they were not something I would ever watch on TV. It's different being there in person. is different being there live and that sort of media I can absorb even though it's very cheesy and overtly know messagey and not as good at storytelling because it's live action and I'm there and I'm immersed in it I get a lot more value out of it personally so I've had the opportunity of seeing you know you know me and me and the family we saw a passion play at New Life Church in Colorado Springs we've got a chance to see a Christmas play ⁓ in Branson You know, maybe one others, you know live-action, know dramas, but that I can't think of but I will say that you know It is it is different and I could absorb that sort of media better just because of the fact that it's live Pj: Yeah, man, and that's understandable. And I guess I know we've kind of been a little bit back and forth even in how we. feel towards certain things, whether it be music or movies. And I guess to just just kind of summarize, I would just say I think that, you know, hey, look, to each their own, you know, I do think, like I said, that, you know, we all have ⁓ different callings in the way we we share, you know, the gospel or the word or our faith and in different creative ways, shapes and forms. And and and, you know, I think that there's there's places and times for all of them. And I think that they're meant to relate to some people and not to others because we are all different. at the same time, I think that... similar to our real walks, our everyday walks, man. It's like we live in a pretty dark world, a lot of bad things going on. And we still got to find God in the middle of that darkness and try to shine our lights. And so I think that kind of looking at things with that kind of same mind frame, you know what mean? ⁓ It's helpful. Randy: Right, right. Yeah. Well, and I think that it's good that you mentioned that because there's a lot of stories in the Bible that if they were just made into movies without the context of being in the Bible, no one would think they were Christian movies. Like, and I'm thinking like the Song of Solomons, for example, or like the Valley of the Dry Bones or like all the endless stories about wars. Like those could have easily been stories taken out of context of the Bible and out of the scriptures, change the names of them. And no one would ever know that they came from the Bible. You know what I mean? Pj: Dude, is 300 not basically the story about Gideon, the original 300? I don't know. Do we know? We don't know. You know what I mean? That might be... Randy: I don't know. I don't know if I would go that far, I would just say that, you know, it's worth mentioning that because there's this question. So if I asked you the question, can a movie be made by non-Christians and still communicate a Christian truth? I would say yes. I would say we've given a few examples of movies that do just that, right? Pj: Absolutely. Well, and not only that, I do fully believe that, you know, and obviously the verse that sticks out in my mind the most is, you know, whenever I've mentioned this before, but whenever Jesus says, you know, many are going to come to me on that day and said, Lord, we did all these things in your name. We, cast out demons, we perform miracles and, and, and he doesn't deny that they did those things. Right. But he just says, depart from me. never knew you. And so, and so what that tells me is that God cared about the person receiving the blessing or getting demon cast out enough to use ⁓ a broken vessel to reach them. And I think that Randy: renew you. Pj: That's the same thing that could happen in the media space. And I guess on the flip side of that coin, ⁓ you know, I can see how what you would consider watered down, very pushy, know, overly over the top, like, you know, ⁓ preachy, you know, media, which I guess, you know, I believe is good for some households would also kind of turn people away. from God. And so I do think that, again, that there needs to be those those kind of undertones of those subtle books of Eli where you get you get the takeaway from it is like, man, faith, maybe maybe there is something to this faith, you know what mean? Because I look at this guy and I could I could relate to him. But he had this faith element and maybe that's what's missing. You know what mean? So, yeah. Randy: It... yeah. Right, right. Well, I mean, we we read in the New Testament is we started off with Jesus and we ended with Paul. We started off with the last Old Testament prophet coming and telling people the bar is actually way up here and we all fall short of it. And then we end with Paul basically saying, guys, what that means for us today in this new covenant is we have grace and we have freedom. And it's like it's the same way like we wouldn't go up to a nonbeliever. Pj: Amen. Randy: and just say, you have grace. If you just believe in Jesus, you can go do whatever you want. No, we want them to understand first that they're a sinner and that they need to be born again, they need to be raised to life, and we'll stop there until they receive Christ. And then we'll teach them about the gospel, and then we'll teach them the truth about how to walk in faith. It's kind of the same with the media, right? I would never play a movie like God's Not Dead to a non-believer and say, okay, there you go, check out this movie. How could you not be a Christian now? Pj: And this would adequately represent my faith. You know, this would this would get me done. Like, no, you really. Randy: Right, right. But I could see someone watching a movie like the Book of Eli and then walking away with some questions like, hmm, like that was an interesting movie, you know, maybe I need to know more. Yeah, go ahead. Pj: Well, I was just going say, I think it's important for us as Christians, to remember that we weren't always here either. know what I mean? Like I mentioned in the very beginning, like, man, I was bouncing in and out of churches and going to church events and I just still felt like, ⁓ you know, not for me. And so, you know, there's that element and we got to remember that that's kind of where we came from. Randy: Right. Pj: we're sharing our faith with people. It's like, man, you didn't want to hear it at one point. So you can't just think like you said, hey, look, go watch Passion of the Christ and The Chosen and whatever, and then you'll get it. It's like, well, no. I mean, those are, you I think that there's a time and place, but I don't think that this is necessarily it. You know what mean? So. Randy: Yeah. Yeah. Right. So let me just summarize my thoughts and then I'll let you do the same. And then I think we'll wrap it up here, brother, because I would say that what I'm going to say mostly applies to most quote unquote Christian movies and TV shows. But my general takeaway from most of them is they do prioritize the message over the storytelling. They come across to me as too preachy. The characters I feel like in most cases are too unrealistic. They don't show real. flawed people that are really struggling the way we really do. It's either they're completely evil or they're completely like flawlessly Christian. I think a lot of the movies they avoid like real darkness. They kind of flirt with like evil but they don't show real darkness the way some of like the secular movies do that really like you know make you feel this visceral feeling. ⁓ Yeah, essentially yeah and then ultimately you know I do feel like for the most part you know Pj: scared the hell out of you. You know what mean? Literally. Randy: ⁓ There's a lot of good movies with good messages out there that are not made by Christian studios or by Christian, you know, producers, directors, actors that still have a really good faith message that I would say are equally if not more so ⁓ in alignment with what, you know, I would want to see for a good, you know, a good story that also has a good biblical message. And we've kind of mentioned some of those. That's kind of where I stand at the end of the day. Again, that mostly applies to movies and music. The music on the, I'm sorry, movies and ⁓ TV shows, the music on the other hand, ⁓ you know, I have less of an issue with in general because in most cases, you know, as we discussed, they're pretty clear on where they stand or if they're not very clear, they're kind of, you know, ⁓ I don't know, a good in between or, you know, you kind of take it or leave it. For me, I mostly take it and less leave it when it comes to music. Whereas when it comes to the movies and TV shows, I mostly leave it and take a lot less. So I'm kind of the opposite there. So that's my final thoughts, man. Where are you at? Pj: Yeah, man, I would agree with a lot of that, you know. ⁓ Ultimately, you know, kind of like I said, man, I can see, I can see the both sides. And just to be clear, like, you know, some of the things that we mentioned that we don't necessarily like, that's not hating on them or judging them. That's just our opinions, our takes, our, you know, likes and dislikes. So, you know, no, you know, hard feelings or ill will towards any of those things. Just, you know. just different tastes for different people. But ultimately, like I said, I am, you know, cheesy or not. Sometimes I like the cheesy. You know what mean? I think that. Yeah. Randy: you are definitely a much more cheesier. see, could tell just by your Facebook post, you're 10 times cheesier than I am. Pj: I'm going have to go examine my Facebook. But no, I mean, really, though, you know, and sometimes I like I like the cheesiness. But I mean, ⁓ you know, it just it just depends. But I am encouraged to see ⁓ more of that that kind of content and getting out there and more people taking an interest in it. And hopefully that'll lead to to better quality, more, more, more time and attention being put into, you know, Randy: Yeah. Pj: doing maybe a better job of adequately representing our Lord in it. But yeah, that's about all I got. That's my two cents, Yeah. Randy: That's your two cents? All right, man. Well, I think we both got a chance to say where we stand on most Christian media. So with that, think that does it for this episode of Walk Talk. So thank you all so much for listening. And if you haven't already, please follow the show. And before you go, leave your thoughts in the comments below. God bless. Pj: God bless.