Latest / The Game Business Show / Expedition 33 publisher: "Elder Scrolls: Oblivion didn’t seem to harm us at all"

Transcript

Expedition 33 publisher: "Elder Scrolls: Oblivion didn’t seem to harm us at all" · The Game Business Show

0:00
proximity to oblivion didn't seem to harm us at all in many
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ways like i think it
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just drew attention to quality rpgs on that week and everybody
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was thinking and
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talking about the genre 55 of people who played expedition 33
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on xbox also played
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SPEAKER_01: oblivion
0:20
SPEAKER_02: This is weird.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Chris.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: You now say words.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: Hello.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Hello, James.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Hello.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: How have you been?
0:45
SPEAKER_01: It's lovely.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: So for the people who are new,
0:48
SPEAKER_01: who may not know this,
0:49
SPEAKER_01: before the game business,
0:51
James Batcher and I worked at gamesindustry.biz and we had a
0:55
weekly microcast
0:56
SPEAKER_01: called the gamesindustry.biz microcast.
0:58
So this is a reunion of sorts,
1:00
a return to...
1:02
James,
1:02
you're at Digital Banditos now.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: I am.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm now Digital Bandidos.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: We are an up and coming indie publisher.
1:08
We were formed by Steve Escalante and Lance James,
1:11
who obviously are best known for Versus Evil.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I'm enjoying it so far.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: There's so many people have said I'm now on the dark side.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm communications manager,
1:20
SPEAKER_02: which is technically PR,
1:22
but I also get to play the games and discuss what we might and
1:25
might not sign.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to do that.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I used to hate as a journalist
1:29
SPEAKER_02: It's still weird to me.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: It's only like four or five months on,
1:32
SPEAKER_02: but I keep on saying as a journalist,
1:33
SPEAKER_02: like it's something I haven't done for ages,
1:35
SPEAKER_02: but I hated it as a journalist when you talk to people and they're like,
1:37
SPEAKER_02: oh,
1:38
SPEAKER_02: I can't really tell you what we're working on.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: I genuinely can't tell you what I'm working on.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Well,
1:44
SPEAKER_01: obviously you've come back to join me,
1:46
SPEAKER_01: so I'm delighted that you,
1:47
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Digital Bandit has let you go on shore leave to return to hosting.
1:52
But obviously you are a natural,
1:54
you hosted the microcast,
1:55
so I feel like I should step
1:58
SPEAKER_01: step back a bit and let you do what's natural.
2:01
It did feel a bit weird coming on where you introduced like the
2:05
news and stuff and
2:06
SPEAKER_02: then I have to think of something to say.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm more comfortable doing it this way around.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm enjoying doing the game business.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: In fact,
2:13
SPEAKER_01: this last,
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SPEAKER_01: my big focus at the moment is we're doing a live event,
2:16
SPEAKER_01: actually listeners as well and viewers.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: We're doing a live version of the game business show.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: It's called the Game Business Live.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: We're doing it at Summer Game Fest on June 9th on the Monday.
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SPEAKER_01: We haven't put tickets on sale yet.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: We're still wrangling over those last few speakers.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: But that's been my sort of I've had a really wonderful first month.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: I was quite excited.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: I think that was last week's show.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: We talked about the month.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: And now I'm like, right, what's next?
2:37
SPEAKER_01: And what's next is this live show.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: So if anyone's in L.A.
2:40
on June 9th and want to come see us do this live,
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imminently we'll be making an announcement.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: putting some tickets available and stuff like that.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: So that's what I've been up to the last week.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: But obviously with this show,
2:55
the news show that we do on the Thursday is a bit like the old
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microcast where we
3:00
SPEAKER_01: chat about the news.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: It is.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: And we have got tons to get through.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: So big topic for the week is Claire Obscure Expedition 33.
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SPEAKER_02: We're going to be talking about the success of that game,
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SPEAKER_02: but we also have another former gamesentry.biz editor
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SPEAKER_02: in the form of Matt Handrahan.
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SPEAKER_02: He's going to be joining us later.
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I say joining us,
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I mean joining you,
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but now I'm host,
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I get to take credit for some of it.
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SPEAKER_02: Before that, we've got a few other stories from around the industry.
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SPEAKER_02: First of all,
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SPEAKER_02: Ziff Davis,
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SPEAKER_02: former stomping ground for the pair of us,
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SPEAKER_02: owner of IGN,
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SPEAKER_02: Eurogamer,
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SPEAKER_02: Rock Paper Shotgun,
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SPEAKER_02: VG247,
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Gamership.biz and a ton of other media sites that aren't in the
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game industry.
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SPEAKER_02: The company is currently suing OpenAI for copyright infringement.
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SPEAKER_02: So according to the report on GamesBeat,
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the lawsuit claims that OpenAI has knowingly copied the text of
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Ziff Davies' site
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SPEAKER_02: without authorization and violated its written demands to stop.
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SPEAKER_02: And if I remember rightly,
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I've read about a year's worth of ongoing demands and requests
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and so forth,
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SPEAKER_02: and they've just ignored all of it.
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The lawsuit also says that OpenAI stripped out copyright
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management information
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SPEAKER_02: from Ziff Davies' works,
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SPEAKER_02: and then it alleges that OpenAI passes this work off as its own.
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The lawsuit claims that OpenAI also falsely attributes output
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to Ziff Davis that is
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SPEAKER_02: not Ziff Davis content.
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I will add there's a nice breakdown of this if you sign up to
4:14
Tommy Thompson's AI
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SPEAKER_02: and games newsletter.
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SPEAKER_02: I was reading that before we started.
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SPEAKER_02: This is just one of many,
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many lawsuits against OpenAI and the use of generative AI
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scraping people's content.
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But thoughts on the fact that Ziff Davis specifically,
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you're kind of a games media powerhouse.
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Yeah,
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certainly journalists are quite pleased that they are taking
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this stance.
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The other stance they could take is signing a deal with them so
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that they are able
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SPEAKER_01: to access all of their stuff.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is the big concern.
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SPEAKER_01: We've talked about AI in the past year and I, James.
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SPEAKER_01: Over Christmas,
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SPEAKER_01: my cousin,
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SPEAKER_01: distant cousin of mine,
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I was at his house and he was there and he showed me a game
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he'd been making and
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SPEAKER_01: he's about 12.
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SPEAKER_01: He's a programmer,
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SPEAKER_01: he does a bit of programming,
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SPEAKER_01: he's programmed a game,
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SPEAKER_01: but I couldn't believe that,
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SPEAKER_01: oh,
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SPEAKER_01: it looks like a game.
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And then he told me,
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oh yeah,
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he had a logo for his studio,
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which is just him.
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SPEAKER_01: And all of it's AI.
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SPEAKER_01: All of it's generated via AI.
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SPEAKER_01: The logo, the assets in the game, everything.
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SPEAKER_01: And then when he needs to do something else, he just asks AI.
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SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't work out whether or not this was exciting or awful.
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SPEAKER_01: It is obviously great that he's able to put out,
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SPEAKER_01: he's not putting out a game,
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but he's able to build a prototype for a game that looks like a
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game and plays like
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SPEAKER_01: a game.
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SPEAKER_01: And he doesn't need all of the skill set to do it.
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SPEAKER_01: He doesn't need to have a team of people to do it.
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SPEAKER_01: He's able to experiment and try things.
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SPEAKER_01: It's wonderful.
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SPEAKER_01: But then I did also think, you know,
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I look at the music industry,
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which is now becoming increasingly singular and individual.
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SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a bit of a shame.
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But the big concern is what Ziff Davis is sort of fighting is,
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where is this stuff coming from?
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SPEAKER_01: What are they doing to build it?
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SPEAKER_01: We've got a games media special coming up.
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SPEAKER_01: We spoke to a few media people.
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And one of the big concerns is how easy it is to just take
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someone else's review,
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SPEAKER_01: stick it into an AI machine and go,
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SPEAKER_01: rewrite this.
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SPEAKER_01: And,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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you've already got websites that steal entire articles from
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people and then they
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SPEAKER_01: have to fight to get that taken down.
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And now you've got an ability to have people can steal entire articles,
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rewrite it using AI.
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SPEAKER_01: And how will you even spot that stuff?
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SPEAKER_01: It is unsettling because what's going to happen if you lose all of that?
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SPEAKER_01: If you lose the original material,
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SPEAKER_01: if the original material can't make money or can't be successful,
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SPEAKER_01: what is AI Basics?
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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It's so many different aspects of like looking specifically at
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this lawsuit.
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SPEAKER_02: So like I said, I was reading the AI and games kind of write up of it.
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SPEAKER_02: And the examples they gave were astonishing.
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SPEAKER_02: So like one example was guides content because obviously like,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
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SPEAKER_02: people searched online for answers to games.
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SPEAKER_02: It's already bad enough.
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SPEAKER_02: You've got the Google AI overview,
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which instantly gives you the answer before it shows you any
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actual search results.
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SPEAKER_02: By way of example,
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SPEAKER_02: in this lawsuit,
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SPEAKER_02: they had,
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SPEAKER_02: as if Davis had said,
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SPEAKER_02: right,
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SPEAKER_02: okay,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
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SPEAKER_02: chat GPT,
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tell you,
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write me a summary of this guide from Eurogamer,
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a one sentence summary.
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And it just copy pasted the answer,
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not copy pasted,
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but it rearranged the article.
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But there were little quirks and that kind of Eurogamer humor
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in the original article.
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SPEAKER_02: And that was in the ChatGPT output.
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SPEAKER_02: And then, and so that's bad enough, like blatant copying.
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SPEAKER_02: But the point in the lawsuit,
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one of the points in the lawsuit was that AI can completely
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mislead people.
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SPEAKER_02: They gave the example of, right, okay, ChatGPT,
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do me a summary or rewrite of this article about Red Dead
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Redemption 2 money cheats.
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SPEAKER_02: And they shared a screenshot,
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like there's a table on Eurogamer of these are the things you
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need to type in to
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SPEAKER_02: get money in Red Dead Redemption 2.
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And the GPT output was,
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there are no money cheats in Red Dead Redemption 2.
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SPEAKER_02: It is not possible to.
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That's a blatant lie based on the source material you have been
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specifically directed to.
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SPEAKER_02: You know, reference.
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SPEAKER_02: It's ridiculous.
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SPEAKER_02: The last example I've given,
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SPEAKER_02: it's not from the Ziff Davis lawsuit,
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SPEAKER_02: but it's something I saw during the rounds on social media recently.
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SPEAKER_02: There's a former Washington Post reporter, Gillian Brockle.
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SPEAKER_02: She left in 2023,
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SPEAKER_02: and she said when she left,
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SPEAKER_02: there were concerns about how AI is going to be used and so forth.
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Washington Post is one of the sites that has actually done a
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partnership with
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SPEAKER_02: OpenAI to allow it to scrape it so forth.
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SPEAKER_02: And you can now ask
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SPEAKER_02: ChatGPT to write an article in the style of Gillian Brockle,
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SPEAKER_02: and it will produce an article,
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SPEAKER_02: but it will even say by Gillian Brockle.
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SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously this is just in GPT.
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SPEAKER_02: This is not published to Washington Post,
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SPEAKER_02: but it does show like,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
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SPEAKER_02: the ChatGPT shouldn't be assigning the name,
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SPEAKER_02: giving it a byline of an author that did not write it.
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And in fact,
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their work was like,
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you know,
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scraped in order to produce it.
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there's so many aspects to it we could probably spend a whole
8:55
hour talking about
8:55
this yeah it's a complicated question as well because you know
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there's an element
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of ai as a tool which a lot of people use talk about and the
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idea of ai making
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things easier and making things more accessible to people but
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the idea of just
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stealing stuff i think is the it's a different thing and it'll
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be interesting to
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SPEAKER_01: see how that all plays out on well i guess i guess we'll we'll
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SPEAKER_01: I'm always wary of saying it'll be interesting.
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SPEAKER_01: I think we're all a little anxious around it.
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And Steven Sotillo actually decided to investigate that money
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cheat thing of GTA.
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I started asking more and more questions at ChatGPT and he
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found out that ChatGPT did,
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SPEAKER_01: or OpenAI,
9:27
SPEAKER_01: did actually have an answer.
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that involve that cheat code,
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but they decided it wasn't a legal cheat code.
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SPEAKER_01: And that's why it said there was no cheat code.
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SPEAKER_01: My thing is I do often,
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SPEAKER_01: I will go into Google and I will go,
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SPEAKER_01: just I'm doing a piece on numbers and I'll go,
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SPEAKER_01: how much any copies did this game sell?
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SPEAKER_01: And the first thing that will pop up is a Google AI thing.
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SPEAKER_01: And by the way,
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Google AI thing is so often wrong,
9:50
SPEAKER_01: it annoys me that it dominates half my screen.
9:52
And it will say to me,
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this game has sold three million copies in five days.
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SPEAKER_01: Well, the game came out two years ago.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: So it hasn't done since then.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: And maybe they've not released any more information.
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SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's why Google AI's system has decided to tell me that number.
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SPEAKER_01: And I go on Wikipedia or go and look,
10:07
SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: and I look and I find the links and go,
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SPEAKER_01: no,
10:09
SPEAKER_01: no,
10:09
SPEAKER_01: no,
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SPEAKER_01: there is a more up to date number.
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But I guess it's scraping the whole internet and it's getting
10:13
the most commonly used answer.
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SPEAKER_01: And which might be by the time they've got down to 20 million sales,
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SPEAKER_01: it's not being picked up so much.
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SPEAKER_01: Earlier today, and this is a segue opportunity, by the way,
10:23
SPEAKER_01: I decided to Google when is Borderlands 4 coming out.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And I got September 23rd was what the Google put up right in front of me.
10:29
And of course,
10:30
24 hours ago,
10:30
48 hours ago,
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by the time this podcast goes out,
10:33
that date changed.
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SPEAKER_01: But I imagine when they're scraping the internet for the answer,
10:37
SPEAKER_01: more people had put the original date than they've got the other date.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: And so it's just not reliable at this point in time anyway.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: But I just, I'm, you know,
10:46
SPEAKER_01: One of the reasons I've gone down this route,
10:47
SPEAKER_01: podcasts and video,
10:48
SPEAKER_01: it's not actually one of the reasons,
10:49
SPEAKER_01: but one of the benefits,
10:50
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
10:50
of podcasts and video and having sort of more personable
10:53
newsletters and stuff like
10:53
SPEAKER_01: that is it's not something that can just be copied and told by a machine.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's as if Dave is going after them.
11:01
I think there'll be a few journalists that see them as the good
11:03
guys in this story.
11:04
And we'll see how this battle plays out because I think there
11:07
does need to be some
11:08
form of regulation and control because it does feel mad that
11:10
they can just take
11:11
SPEAKER_01: people's work and take people's identity.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: It's just...
11:14
um you know their profession as i say there are so many um
11:19
lawsuits against open ai
11:21
so like the i think it's gonna be a long time before we see the
11:23
results from the
11:24
zip davis one and then all of the others but together they
11:27
should hopefully create
11:29
some sort of precedent that stops this from happening if it's
11:32
not too late
11:33
Funny you mentioned Borderlands 4,
11:34
because yes,
11:35
that is indeed our next story.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: Borderlands 4, as you mentioned, has been brought forward.
11:40
The release has been brought forward almost two weeks from
11:42
September 23rd to September 12th.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: Now, naturally, nothing is simple on the internet.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Nothing can just be, well, that happened.
11:51
Speculation is rife that this is giving us a hint as to when
11:56
Grand Theft Auto 6
11:57
SPEAKER_02: comes out,
11:58
SPEAKER_02: because obviously...
11:59
SPEAKER_02: Borderlands is published by 2K,
12:00
SPEAKER_02: which is owned by Take-Two,
12:02
SPEAKER_02: which also owns Rockstar,
12:03
SPEAKER_02: which also makes Grand Theft Auto.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: So it's all within the same house.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
12:07
we've talked in the past on previous podcasts about how nuts
12:11
2K's lineup is this
12:12
SPEAKER_02: year or Take-Two's lineup is this year with
12:15
SPEAKER_02: Civ 7, Borderlands 4, Mafia of the Old Country, and Grand Theft Auto 6.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: On top of their WWE and NBA and all of those sort of usuals.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: And maybe even Judas, maybe even the Ken Levine game.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: They can't.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Surely not.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Surely, like, that would be just, they'd have nothing much.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: They don't,
12:34
SPEAKER_02: I was going to say they'd have nothing to release next year,
12:35
but they don't need to release anything for the next five years
12:37
because they'll
12:38
SPEAKER_02: have GTA 6.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Next 12 years.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's 12 years, you're right.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: Regardless,
12:43
SPEAKER_02: so people are thinking,
12:45
SPEAKER_02: oh yeah,
12:45
they've moved Borderlands earlier because now people are
12:48
speculating the GTA 6 will
12:49
SPEAKER_02: come out either late September or early October,
12:52
SPEAKER_02: which does feel roughly when it might arrive anyway.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Borderlands boss, Randy Pitchford, has taken to X
12:58
SPEAKER_02: To deny all of this,
12:59
SPEAKER_02: he wrote in a tweet slash post,
13:01
Borderlands 4 shipping early is 100% the result of confidence
13:05
in the game,
13:05
SPEAKER_02: a development trajectory backed by actual tasks and bug find fix rates.
13:10
Our decision is literally 0% about any other product's actual
13:13
or theoretical launch date.
13:15
Now,
13:16
you can choose whether or not to believe him,
13:17
and most of the internet has.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: I struggle to think of an example of a AAA game where,
13:25
SPEAKER_02: particularly in the last couple of years,
13:27
SPEAKER_02: where they've brought the release forward.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure Randy's telling the truth in some way that's true to him.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:34
I certainly wouldn't suggest otherwise,
13:36
but...
13:36
I'm not doubting the confidence of the game.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, and the game's ready, right?
13:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's great.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: I guess the thing that I've got with it is...
13:44
SPEAKER_01: If you're in marketing,
13:45
SPEAKER_01: if you're in PR,
13:46
SPEAKER_01: you've just put out a press release announcing a release date.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Even Google will tell you what the release date is the 23rd of September.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: All the marketing assets you've put out,
13:54
SPEAKER_01: all the promotion you've done for the game,
13:55
SPEAKER_01: go on any of the storefronts and that's the release date for the game.
13:58
People have put it in their calendars and plans and then you
14:00
decide to move the date.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Moving the date is no small thing.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And so you would expect there to be a reason.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we moved it because the game will be ready sooner.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Why not leave it where it is?
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Have a nice holiday before you release it.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: Have a nice relaxed week before launch.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Who gets one of those?
14:19
SPEAKER_01: So I have to believe it is something to do with the slate.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Is it because of GTA 6?
14:24
SPEAKER_01: It could be.
14:25
But I think it's more likely to the fact that actually when
14:28
Borderlands 4 announced
14:29
SPEAKER_01: its date,
14:29
SPEAKER_01: it was the only game in that window.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: And now Marathon, Bungie's next game, is out the same week.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: as Borderlands 4.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: It's the same day actually.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, it was going to be the same day.
14:40
I think about a week later,
14:42
Ghost of Yotai,
14:43
another PlayStation game is also due out.
14:45
OK,
14:45
these are different experiences,
14:46
different games,
14:47
but there is crossover to those audiences.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: They're going to be taking up space on the PlayStation Store.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Borderlands 4 is a big PlayStation game.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: PlayStation backs it.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: So you suddenly got like this
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Late September is usually... FIFA?
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: EA Sports FC.
15:00
The way I worked it out was you have a week where it's Marathon
15:02
and Borderlands 4,
15:04
SPEAKER_01: then it was going to be EA Sports FC,
15:05
SPEAKER_01: and then immediately the week after it's Ghost of Yotai.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: And Ghost of Yotai,
15:08
SPEAKER_01: I know that perhaps people...
15:10
SPEAKER_01: I know it came at the end of the...
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Ghost of Tsushima launched at the end of...
15:14
the ps4 generation so perhaps it didn't get picked up you know
15:17
people didn't know
15:18
how successful that game was it did 13 million copies and
15:21
mostly on one platform so
15:23
you've got you've got that place that you know it's a big title
15:25
for playstation
15:26
borderland's a big title for playstation so i wouldn't be
15:28
surprised it doesn't have
15:29
to be because of gta it could just be it's got a bit congested
15:33
why not release our
15:33
game a couple of weeks earlier it will be ready let's do it and
15:37
i completely agree
15:37
with that the idea that there's zero to do percent to do with
15:40
any other game i'm
15:40
SPEAKER_01: like
15:41
SPEAKER_01: I think it probably is because it's a clear window.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Borderlands 4 is obviously massive.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: You're a massive Borderlands fan, or James, or a big one anyway.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: It's obviously a huge title.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: It's a significant title.
15:51
And I think it's good for fans to move your game into a slot
15:54
where they have a bit
15:55
SPEAKER_01: more time to play.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: And,
15:56
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:57
we've seen other game developers move their games forward or
15:59
later and that kind of
16:00
SPEAKER_01: stuff to accommodate titles,
16:02
SPEAKER_01: not just because they want a better cut through,
16:05
SPEAKER_01: but because
16:06
Their audience might want to play both things and they want to
16:08
give the audience
16:09
SPEAKER_01: the opportunity to do that.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think so.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: It could be because of GTA,
16:12
SPEAKER_01: but it could be because for many other reasons,
16:14
I don't necessarily follow the idea from Randy that it's
16:18
literally zero percent
16:19
SPEAKER_01: about any other product,
16:21
SPEAKER_01: actual theoretical launch date,
16:22
SPEAKER_01: maybe not an individual product,
16:23
SPEAKER_01: maybe just general busy period.
16:25
I think if you just removed that second sentence from his statement,
16:28
you'd be fine.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: It's the 0% thing there.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe from his point of view,
16:33
SPEAKER_01: it's 0%,
16:33
SPEAKER_01: but from 2K that would rubber stamp the date move,
16:36
SPEAKER_01: it might have had a lot more to do with it.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: You're right.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: It makes sense to give it a bit more room to breathe.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: The Borderlands games are huge,
16:44
SPEAKER_02: both in terms of popularity,
16:45
SPEAKER_02: but also in terms of,
16:47
SPEAKER_02: particularly since 3,
16:48
SPEAKER_02: 3 was a massive hit for them.
16:50
But also in terms of content,
16:51
they are not games that you just blitz through in a week or two.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: They require a lot of time put into them.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: The player base do like pouring a lot of time.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of anticipation for this one.
17:02
We saw this when everyone was decrying the movie last year and
17:06
instead demanding
17:07
SPEAKER_02: when the next Borderlands game is.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: So...
17:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm intrigued to see how well this one does.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm still intrigued to see when GTA 6 does land,
17:14
SPEAKER_02: regardless of whether or not it's a direct impact on this one.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: I think we'll know soon.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Take-Two's financials is May 15th.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying they'll announce it then,
17:23
but they might announce it around then because I think there
17:26
will be an expectation
17:27
SPEAKER_01: to it.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: This is Rockstar.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: And we know what Take-Two are like.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Take-Two very much put it on their developers and that kind of stuff.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: And of course, they'll know a rough window of when it's due out.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: But Rockstar will tell Take-Two when it's ready or take the window.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: We'll have it out for that date.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: It won't be put on them by Take-Two.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: By the time May 15th rolls around,
17:45
SPEAKER_01: if Rockstar haven't given them a date,
17:47
SPEAKER_01: then they won't have a date.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, we've seen it before.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: I've heard stories before from other publishers who
17:53
SPEAKER_01: were in their financials going, yep, the game will come out this year.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: And then two months later or two weeks later,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: the developer turns around and goes,
18:00
SPEAKER_01: actually,
18:00
SPEAKER_01: now it's going to be ready for them.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: And then they're having to then go back to their shareholders and say,
18:05
SPEAKER_01: sorry,
18:06
SPEAKER_01: that's going to miss this window now.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, why didn't you know it two weeks ago?
18:09
SPEAKER_01: The developer hadn't told them.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: And certain companies are set up that way.
18:13
a take two certainly one of them they very much you know
18:15
empower their their their
18:17
rock star to be rock star and tk to be 2k and all those sort of
18:20
things so it might
18:20
be that you know take two don't know exactly but it's certainly
18:23
there you know i
18:24
love how um if you really the internet is so rife with it you
18:27
know strauss zelnick
18:28
does an interview with like a financial press and he says a
18:31
different phrase than
18:32
he normally says when he talks about and everyone's like i
18:35
don't mean it's being
18:36
SPEAKER_01: delayed or it's being pushed earlier or
18:38
SPEAKER_02: I have no doubt.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: There are GTA 6 fans at home with massive whiteboard,
18:42
bits of string drawn out to printouts of every- Future
18:45
Publishing have a podcast
18:46
SPEAKER_01: called GTA 6 O'clock,
18:48
SPEAKER_01: which I think is running up to 60 episodes now.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: There's only one trailer.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: It will never happen.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Imagine if they shadow dropped it.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: It will never happen,
18:59
SPEAKER_02: but just...
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay,
19:00
it wouldn't happen because it's such a possibly big physical
19:02
retail release,
19:03
SPEAKER_01: so it's very hard to manage that.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: You can't shadow drop a retail game, no.
19:07
But if it was like a PC game,
19:08
I completely believe like a Valve could drop Half-Life 3.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: To suddenly and unexpectedly.
19:13
That's the sort of thing that if it's a digital-only platform,
19:17
I can actually see that.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: And GTA could get away with it.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: Half-Life 3 is ready.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: They're just sitting on it waiting for the most disruptive time.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: Launch it on the same day as 2K6.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: Release day, yeah, exactly.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: The day it comes out is like, Half-Life 3!
19:30
SPEAKER_02: No.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay, we're getting into the realms of fantasy here.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, but it's interesting because the interest is obviously...
19:36
You know,
19:36
I think I didn't realize how busy it's been the last couple of weeks.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: I was talking,
19:39
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:39
SPEAKER_01: I know we'll come on to this subject,
19:41
SPEAKER_01: but Expedition 33 coming out the same week as Oblivion.
19:43
And someone pointed out to me that Indiana Jones came out only
19:48
on PlayStation 5
19:49
SPEAKER_01: only the week before.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's done pretty well.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: I think it was the best selling game on PlayStation that week.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: I think better than it did on Xbox in terms of sales.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it was a Game Pass title.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: So that was quite a significant thing,
20:00
SPEAKER_01: and then Bethesda dropped another game the week later,
20:02
SPEAKER_01: which is also owned by Microsoft and all Xbox games,
20:05
SPEAKER_01: and then Dooms out in a couple of weeks.
20:06
I sit there and go,
20:07
the release date,
20:08
you know what my head's like,
20:10
James.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: So I did this at when Mario Kart,
20:14
SPEAKER_01: you won't be surprised by this,
20:15
SPEAKER_01: when Mario Kart World was announced.
20:17
Can you work out what may have been going through my head when
20:19
I saw that?
20:20
announcement how uh how much this is going to affect the sonic
20:24
racing game yeah i
20:26
mean yes so about about three weeks before the mario kart world
20:31
uh not even world
20:31
it wasn't it was just a teaser for mario kart in january my
20:34
brain went um oh that's
20:36
poor sonic i tell you what i've been i've been hanging out with
20:39
you too much
20:39
because that thought did occur to me very briefly when i was
20:41
watching the mario
20:42
SPEAKER_02: kart as well
20:44
But I said poor,
20:45
then I went,
20:45
oh,
20:45
but actually it's on different platforms.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: If you wanted a Mario Kart game,
20:48
SPEAKER_01: but you don't have the Switch 2,
20:49
SPEAKER_01: you can't get a Switch 2,
20:50
SPEAKER_01: maybe Sonic could be the alternative.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: And look, they're not actually coming out at the same time.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: But of course,
20:53
SPEAKER_01: then my brain went to,
20:54
SPEAKER_01: in 2018,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: or 2019,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: when the last Sonic game came out,
20:57
SPEAKER_01: it came out next to Crash Team Racing.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, that wasn't a great moment for it.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: And then, so my brain, I don't get excited initially about a game.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: My immediate thought when packed is, what does that mean?
21:07
SPEAKER_01: When Marathon was announced the same time as Borderlands 4,
21:09
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
21:09
SPEAKER_01: oh,
21:09
SPEAKER_01: that's a tricky way to do it.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: And that is just, I've been doing this job for too long.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: And I had the same thing with Bethesda Slate,
21:17
SPEAKER_01: where it went from Indiana Jones to Oblivion to Doom in about four weeks.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: I felt like we felt for the PR team.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: It's so difficult.
21:28
I really enjoyed the conversation you were talking about on a
21:31
previous podcast.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: My thought when they shadow dropped Oblivion was Avowed.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: Because Avowed has only been out a couple of months.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: I wondered if that's the reason why it got shadow dropped.
21:42
I do wonder that in the sense that if you had the PR campaigns
21:45
running side by side,
21:46
SPEAKER_01: that would have been a problem.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: But Avowed at least had a good two months.
21:49
Yeah,
21:49
because people would have held off trying avowed because they
21:52
know oblivion is coming.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's entirely possible.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Shall we move on to our main topic?
21:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
22:00
The main topic is,
22:01
as we mentioned earlier,
22:02
RPG Claire Obscure Expedition 33.
22:05
Huge breakout hit for Kepler Interactive and the developer
22:08
Sandfall Interactive.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: The game has sold more than one million units in just three days,
22:12
SPEAKER_02: and that is actual sales,
22:14
SPEAKER_02: not players,
22:15
SPEAKER_02: which is a rarity in this day and age,
22:18
SPEAKER_02: an actual sales statistic.
22:20
Players will obviously be higher because the game is also
22:23
available on Xbox Game Pass.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Those numbers are not included.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: Not sure if those numbers will be released.
22:29
Chris,
22:29
I understand you've been looking into the game and the performance.
22:32
I know what you're like with your data,
22:33
so I assume you have stats for us.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: I do have some stats for you but I think before actually I looked,
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I'll share some numbers,
22:41
I actually managed to catch up with Kepler just earlier today
22:45
and I spoke to Senior
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Portfolio Manager Matt Handrahan,
22:48
SPEAKER_01: he's a name that might ring a bell to you James.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Vague memory, vague memory of him.
22:53
The former editor chief of GamesIndustry.biz,
22:55
it's very much a reunion show this one.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Shall we hear from Matt?
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Let's.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Hello, Matt.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: It's nice to bring you back into the business media for a brief moment.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kicking and screaming back into the trade press.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: But yes, thank you very much for having me, Chris.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Good to see you again.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, congratulations on the success of Expedition 33.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: I never know which half of the name do I use.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: For a while internally, I think we would only call it Expedition 33.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: But I think...
23:24
SPEAKER_00: It's a long name in the tradition of Japanese RPGs,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I suppose,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: but I default to Expedition 33,
23:29
SPEAKER_00: of course,
23:30
SPEAKER_00: full name,
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Claire Obscure Expedition 33s.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: Well,
23:33
SPEAKER_01: I was a little worried when Oblivion dropped like just before you,
23:37
SPEAKER_01: but you seem to have done exceptionally well.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: You must be feeling great.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, how has it matched your expectations?
23:43
SPEAKER_00: I think it's fair to say it's exceeded our expectations.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I think we all expected it to do well.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: There are certain markers you can look at that we track success by,
23:52
SPEAKER_00: things like Steam wishlists,
23:54
SPEAKER_00: pre-orders,
23:55
SPEAKER_00: just general sentiment online.
23:56
I don't think there was a time we showed this game where we
23:59
didn't get a nice bump
24:00
SPEAKER_00: in those wishlists and pre-order numbers.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And also,
24:03
there was no time we showed it where there wasn't obviously a
24:06
lot of positive
24:07
SPEAKER_00: sentiment around it,
24:08
SPEAKER_00: around the kind of game it is,
24:09
SPEAKER_00: around
24:10
what it seemed to be trying to do in the industry,
24:13
which I think is quite an interesting thing.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: I think it just resonates with people on many different levels.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: But,
24:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
24:19
SPEAKER_00: to be in a position where we can say with some confidence we might have,
24:22
SPEAKER_00: like,
24:22
SPEAKER_00: at this moment,
24:23
SPEAKER_00: one of the most popular games in the world,
24:25
SPEAKER_00: like,
24:26
SPEAKER_00: is...
24:26
SPEAKER_00: is actually a pretty mind-blowing thing.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: We see ourselves as AA,
24:30
SPEAKER_00: and that is a very vaguely defined space,
24:32
but it is really heartening to be able to launch at the same
24:36
time as a product,
24:37
SPEAKER_00: an IP of the size of something like Elder Scrolls Oblivion,
24:41
SPEAKER_00: and go toe-to-toe with it,
24:42
SPEAKER_00: and then come out in the position that we're in.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it couldn't have gone better, honestly.
24:48
But yeah,
24:49
it's been happy times at Kepler and at Sam for the last couple
24:52
of weeks.
24:53
Because you know how my brain works for the business
24:55
journalist's point of view.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't always go, oh, exciting, a new Oblivion game.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I go, oh, goodness, Expedition's out this week.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: When Mario Kart was announced,
25:02
SPEAKER_01: my brain went,
25:03
SPEAKER_01: there was a Sonic racing game announced a week ago.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes, indeed.
25:07
I think we always knew that Expedition 33 had a very specific
25:11
identity as a game,
25:12
SPEAKER_00: as a gameplay experience.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: And personally,
25:15
SPEAKER_00: as a player,
25:15
SPEAKER_00: you know,
25:16
SPEAKER_00: when I was in the press,
25:17
I always saw kind of the Western-style RPG and the
25:21
Japanese-style RPG as having
25:23
SPEAKER_00: quite different appeals and different audiences.
25:25
I knew plenty of people that would play an Elder Scrolls game
25:27
that wouldn't
25:27
SPEAKER_00: necessarily play Final Fantasy and vice versa.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: I think also by the time that week rolled around,
25:33
we had momentum of our own and we felt pretty confident that we
25:37
could stand alone
25:38
SPEAKER_00: beside it.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: I think there were other aspects of that,
25:40
SPEAKER_00: like the price point we were at,
25:42
SPEAKER_00: various other things,
25:43
SPEAKER_00: inclusion in Game Pass.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: We knew we would have a lot of interest around the game.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: We were confident in that.
25:49
And like I say,
25:50
it went as well as it possibly could have done in our eyes.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: And actually proximity to Oblivion didn't seem to harm us at all.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: In many ways, like I think it
25:59
SPEAKER_00: It just drew attention to quality RPGs on that week,
26:02
SPEAKER_00: and everybody was thinking and talking about the genre.
26:04
And I think you've seen that in the way that the game has
26:06
continued to hold
26:07
SPEAKER_00: people's attention since then.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: So we're very pleased.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Certainly happy to have momentum.
26:11
It seems to be getting bigger and bigger,
26:12
which I guess is normal for a new IP.
26:14
You've got that first group of people and then that spreads
26:16
amongst communities,
26:17
SPEAKER_01: media and all that kind of stuff.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true.
26:20
I mean,
26:20
I think with Expedition,
26:21
visually,
26:22
it's such an amazing looking game.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Sandfall's art team are masters.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Genius level character design.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: I've always thought that since the very first time I've seen the game.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: So it obviously shows very well in trailers.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: It shows very well in showcases.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: But I think once you get in there,
26:37
SPEAKER_00: you realize that the quality of the storytelling is very,
26:39
SPEAKER_00: very high.
26:40
The battle system is extremely good,
26:42
like one of the best of its kind in its class,
26:45
I think.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: So once you get in there,
26:46
I think there's lots more surprises to be had beyond the way
26:50
the game looks and the atmosphere.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: The music is obviously great.
26:53
It's just an extremely well-made game on many different levels
26:56
and in a style of
26:57
SPEAKER_00: game that hasn't really existed in this way in quite a long time now.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Like I think it's...
27:02
SPEAKER_00: It's the kind of game that there were more of 15 years ago, maybe.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: But the AAA companies kind of moved away from that in many respects.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: And this game is a modernization of that style of JRPG.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: And I think there were people just waiting to receive one.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: And that is what's got us to where we are.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Talk us through Kepler's journey with the game.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: What was it like when you first saw it?
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Talk us through that sort of story.
27:25
Well,
27:25
I think when the game first came to our attention,
27:28
it was in prototype form.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: It was an early version of the game.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Like we could see the potential of the concept of the idea,
27:37
but I think the form it was in at that point in time wasn't
27:40
quite fleshed out enough.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: I think with a game like this,
27:42
SPEAKER_00: with this sort of tactical battle system,
27:45
SPEAKER_00: you need to see that that side of it is working.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: You want to know the world is going to hit in the right way.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: If you look at a series like Final Fantasy,
27:53
SPEAKER_00: a series like Persona,
27:54
SPEAKER_00: which is,
27:54
these are IPs that inspired the Sandful team that they kind of
27:58
grew up playing.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: I think you want those sides of the game to really come through.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: We need to have confidence that they could do that.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: We knew it wasn't very far away.
28:07
I know that my CEO,
28:09
Alexi Garavarian,
28:10
had the most contact with them at this time.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: He saw the potential in it but thought it could...
28:16
SPEAKER_00: there were still some parts of it that needed a little bit more work.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So, Sandville went away, they did that work, and they came back.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: And on the second time of seeing it,
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Our response was extremely, extremely quick.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: I think one of our executives received an email from a person,
28:33
SPEAKER_00: a different publisher,
28:34
SPEAKER_00: who I won't name,
28:35
SPEAKER_00: saying that by the time they'd even started looking at Expedition 33,
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Kepra had already signed it.
28:41
Because as soon as they got the confirmation the team had it,
28:44
we were straight on top of it.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: But that's like a big part of it.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: You know,
28:48
SPEAKER_00: if you find a game you like,
28:49
SPEAKER_00: if you find a game that excites you,
28:51
SPEAKER_00: you really have to act quickly because I think the truly special games,
28:54
SPEAKER_00: there aren't that many of them out there.
28:55
There's a lot of games and a lot of good games,
28:57
but the really remarkable stuff comes along
29:01
SPEAKER_00: relatively rarely.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So when you find one, you need to make sure it can be yours.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: So I think that first time we saw it,
29:09
SPEAKER_00: maybe not quite there,
29:10
SPEAKER_00: but the second we got that reassurance.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: We leapt on the opportunity.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Just kudos to the team then to,
29:15
SPEAKER_01: you know,
29:16
SPEAKER_01: get that feedback and whatever that feedback was,
29:18
SPEAKER_01: you know,
29:18
I'm assuming that you gave it and then going away and
29:20
immediately putting that into place.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it was less our specific feedback.
29:25
It was more just making sure that the direction we thought they
29:28
were headed was the
29:29
SPEAKER_00: direction they were headed,
29:30
SPEAKER_00: and that was just the confirmation.
29:32
Like I say,
29:33
what the game is,
29:34
is so clear,
29:35
and it was so clear even at that early stage.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Really?
29:38
SPEAKER_00: It was just fleshing out a little bit more,
29:41
SPEAKER_00: nailing down the style of it a little bit more,
29:42
SPEAKER_00: and as soon as we got those confirmations,
29:44
SPEAKER_00: we signed.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Great.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: I'll end on talking about the fact,
29:47
SPEAKER_01: because when I saw the game for the first time,
29:48
SPEAKER_01: it was the Xbox...
29:50
SPEAKER_01: And it was one of the most packed Xbox showcases I've ever seen,
29:54
SPEAKER_01: you know,
29:54
SPEAKER_01: Doom and Gears of War and that kind of stuff.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: And then this game really shone out.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: This isn't my style of game, but I went, oh, that's different.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: And it clearly resonated and I wasn't the only one that felt that way.
30:05
And then Xbox featured it,
30:06
was it in the developer direct earlier in the year?
30:08
SPEAKER_01: It developed direct in January, yeah.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: Normally reserved for first party games.
30:12
So it feels like you had a lot of support from the Xbox side
30:15
that really helped you.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: And then of course it's in Game Pass as well.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: What role did they play helping this game break through?
30:20
SPEAKER_00: The more obvious is what you mentioned, right?
30:23
SPEAKER_00: That showcase inclusion.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of indie level publishers and AA publishers,
30:28
they rely on things like Steam Next Fest to a large degree to
30:31
get eyes on their game.
30:32
I think partnering with the platform gives you a few more
30:36
venues to kind of
30:37
SPEAKER_00: showcase what you're doing and to update people on it.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: So we got a couple of like really big,
30:41
SPEAKER_00: big places to do that from Xbox,
30:43
SPEAKER_00: as you said,
30:44
SPEAKER_00: the Summer Showcase last year,
30:45
SPEAKER_00: the Developer Direct this year.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: The other benefit of that,
30:48
SPEAKER_00: you hinted at before,
30:49
SPEAKER_00: which is that our game was placed alongside Gears of War and Fable,
30:53
SPEAKER_00: and products that are very traditionally known as AAA products,
30:58
SPEAKER_00: which I think actually changed the view of what our product was.
31:01
Even though it hadn't been seen very many times,
31:03
it allowed it to be seen in a context that
31:07
that let people understand what it was in a way that I think we
31:09
would have
31:09
SPEAKER_00: struggled to do if we weren't allied with Xbox in that way.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: Because it puts us in a context that we can replicate easily ourselves,
31:17
SPEAKER_00: that we couldn't have done through a Steam demo alone,
31:20
SPEAKER_00: for example.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: So I think that really helped us to kind of claim this
31:25
SPEAKER_00: double A territory in a much more confident way because like I say,
31:28
it's a vague space that exists somewhere between small games
31:31
and extremely big
31:32
SPEAKER_00: games and there's a lot of ground that that covers.
31:35
But I think having the backing of a platform like Xbox gives
31:38
you the ability to
31:40
position your game in front of players in a way that you really
31:42
can't replicate otherwise.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: And what about the game pass element?
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Is that part of that as well?
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's definitely a part of it.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: I think when you're in Game Pass,
31:52
you know you're gonna have access to a large group of players
31:55
on launch day,
31:56
SPEAKER_00: which is a great thing.
31:57
And I think one of the things that's really helped Expedition
31:59
33 is the number of
32:00
people who are engaging with it right on launch day and
32:03
continue to do so now.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of enthusiasm online about this game.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: I remember I had to transition from
32:10
specifically looking for Expedition 33 on Twitter to see what
32:13
people were saying about it.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: To now,
32:15
SPEAKER_00: if I just open Twitter,
32:16
I'm just going to see Expedition 33 content because there are
32:19
that many people out
32:20
SPEAKER_00: there enthusing about it.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: We've had,
32:22
I know we've had Ken Levine talking about how much the opening
32:25
of the game affected him.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: We've had words of congratulations from Obsidian and other studios.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And I know this means the world to Sam for,
32:33
SPEAKER_00: and as someone who has been in publishing for a few years,
32:36
SPEAKER_00: but hasn't seen that many launches of this size,
32:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
32:38
SPEAKER_00: it's pretty open.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: overwhelming for me too.
32:41
I think Game Pass helps with just getting that that swell of
32:45
interest in the game.
32:46
We've done well on every platform but that I think is the other
32:48
benefit of Game Pass.
32:50
I've got some press engine numbers I think in the last couple
32:53
of weeks something
32:53
SPEAKER_01: like over 4,000 articles on Expedition 33 with a
32:58
SPEAKER_01: potential audience of a billion people or something like that.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: They are figures that kind of blow the mind.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's a game that justifies them fully.
33:07
You can see it from the Metacritic score,
33:08
you can see it from the user reviews.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: It is a game that I think is highlighted.
33:12
There is room in the market for like a new IP from a reasonable
33:17
sized team,
33:18
SPEAKER_00: not tiny,
33:18
SPEAKER_00: but definitely nowhere near a AAA team at all.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: working in a way that was much more common once upon a time,
33:25
SPEAKER_00: but bringing much more modern techniques,
33:27
SPEAKER_00: modern presentation to it,
33:28
SPEAKER_00: and just presenting something fresh.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, this is not a 150-hour game.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: It's not an $80 game.
33:34
This is exactly what I think the kind of game that we want
33:37
Keppas to be putting out there.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's gone as well as we could have dared hoped.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Matt.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, Chris.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: Good talking to you.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: There he is, back in the trade media with me and James.
33:55
In that video he talked about the fact that it is a game that
33:58
was a little bit of a
33:58
hark back to the sort of games like the Final Fantasy 10s of
34:02
the world that people
34:03
played a few years ago and you don't get to see as much anymore
34:05
and it reminded me
34:06
of what happened with Space Marine 2 which was a similar
34:09
successful concept and in
34:10
fact we've talked about this quite a bit on the podcast these
34:12
ideas of games that
34:14
SPEAKER_01: They're not necessarily original.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: They are.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: They are original in their own way, but they're not.
34:18
Sometimes it's just going back to an experience people haven't
34:20
had for a while and
34:22
then delivering that and really focus and doing an extremely
34:24
good job on that
34:25
SPEAKER_01: combat system,
34:26
SPEAKER_01: on that art style,
34:27
really nailing that and getting that right and then watching
34:30
that spread out.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: It's been it's a really phenomenal success.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: It's been really wonderful despite its launch window.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Have you a chance to see it, James, or play it?
34:41
SPEAKER_02: I haven't had a chance to play it yet,
34:42
SPEAKER_02: no,
34:42
SPEAKER_02: but the fact that it's on Game Pass is kind of on my list of ones to try.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: This is what I love.
34:47
When you see these kind of big indie success stories,
34:50
it gives you a little bit of FOMO.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: It does give you encouragement.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: JRPGs are not my thing.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: I have tried to get into them and I struggle with them.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: But when I see a game performing this well,
35:00
SPEAKER_02: I do need to at least give it a go and see what the secret sauce is.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: So it's on my list to try out.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: It's brilliant.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: It's really encouraging to see it happen.
35:10
It shows that indie publishers or smaller publishers can have
35:15
those big,
35:16
huge hits.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: They're not common.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: They're very difficult.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: As he says,
35:19
SPEAKER_02: it's really difficult to find the special games out there,
35:22
SPEAKER_02: the ones that are the most likely to reach that size of audience.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: But it can happen.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: I think the indie space can
35:31
SPEAKER_02: And I say this,
35:31
SPEAKER_02: I say this both from my first couple of months in the indie space,
35:34
SPEAKER_02: but also like from being a journalist and like seeing,
35:37
SPEAKER_02: you know,
35:37
SPEAKER_02: and how difficult it is to try and get indie games coverage and so forth.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: It can seem quite bleak in the indie space.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: And yes,
35:44
seeing a game like Clare Obscure do so well does not instantly
35:47
mean that all other JRPG,
35:49
SPEAKER_02: you know,
35:49
SPEAKER_02: indie JRPGs are going to do well.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: No.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: do have like the right kind of idea,
35:55
SPEAKER_02: the right quality,
35:56
you find something that you're finding something that an
35:59
audience is not being served,
36:00
SPEAKER_02: scratching an itch that is not being scratched,
36:03
SPEAKER_02: as it were,
36:05
SPEAKER_02: there's a chance.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Oddly,
36:07
SPEAKER_01: I find the reference this being an indie game or even a double A game,
36:11
SPEAKER_01: I think misleading.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I know, it's hilarious.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: It's because it's like,
36:14
SPEAKER_01: it doesn't,
36:15
SPEAKER_01: it doesn't,
36:15
SPEAKER_01: it's like,
36:16
SPEAKER_01: I think this is,
36:17
I think we are getting to the point where actually those labels
36:19
really are,
36:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
36:20
SPEAKER_01: if they weren't meaningless already,
36:21
SPEAKER_01: really are,
36:22
SPEAKER_01: because
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Sure,
36:24
SPEAKER_01: it's a 33-person team,
36:25
SPEAKER_01: it's indie in every sense of the word,
36:27
SPEAKER_01: but it doesn't look indie and indie creates a certain perception.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: And just because a game is focused and short, does that make it less AAA?
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, Spider-Man 2 is 20 hours long.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: We wouldn't call that an indie game or a double-A game.
36:41
I find this,
36:42
you know,
36:43
Resident Evil 4 is 8 hours long,
36:44
we wouldn't call that a double-A game.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: the quite literal indie game,
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Indiana Jones and the Great Circle,
36:49
SPEAKER_02: you can do that in about 15 hours.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: And that's fine.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what it needs to be.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: You can drop Indiana Jones in it.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I wouldn't call Space Marine 2 an indie game.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't even call it a double-A game.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: It's triple-A-ish, I think.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we need to label them.
37:04
SPEAKER_02: No, this is true.
37:05
And this is the thing,
37:06
regardless of your budget,
37:10
your team size,
37:11
et cetera,
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Your game needs to be as polished as it possibly can.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to tick a box in your internal batch bingo here.
37:21
I'm going to refer to indie publishing in terms of books and
37:25
novels and fiction and so forth.
37:26
Like the resounding advice in that space is always your book
37:31
needs to look and read
37:33
SPEAKER_02: as professional as one that's come from the big publishers.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: So it needs to have a professional cover,
37:38
not one you've made in MS Paint or used a generative AI image
37:42
generator on it.
37:43
SPEAKER_02: Your writing needs to be tight and well edited.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: It needs to be proofread with an inch of its life.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Because if you...
37:53
produce a quality product and the audience can't tell what's
37:56
the difference between
37:57
SPEAKER_02: an indie book and a main publishing book,
38:00
SPEAKER_02: it doesn't matter.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: You have a chance of succeeding.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: I think it's the same in the indie game space.
38:05
The emphasis on quality and polish and that doesn't mean it
38:09
needs to be like super
38:10
SPEAKER_02: Unreal Engine 5,
38:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
38:13
SPEAKER_02: all glamour ray tracing puddles and all this.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: It just means it needs to be a very good quality game.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: And Matt talked about,
38:20
SPEAKER_01: in fact,
38:21
it was announced alongside Fable and Gears of War and all that
38:24
kind of stuff.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Probably gave that impression,
38:25
SPEAKER_01: as he said,
38:26
SPEAKER_01: it sort of gave the impression that this is perhaps,
38:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
38:28
SPEAKER_01: quite an ambitious game.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: Great.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: I gather you have,
38:34
SPEAKER_02: you mentioned earlier,
38:35
SPEAKER_02: you have done some research into how well the game has performed.
38:37
And so I get to ask you something I've not asked you in a good
38:39
few months.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: What do the numbers mean?
38:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if Game Business listeners will understand that reference.
38:46
We used to have a section where we went through the numbers and
38:48
it was called What
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Do The Numbers Mean?
38:50
SPEAKER_01: So I actually spoke a little bit,
38:51
SPEAKER_01: you may have seen,
38:52
I referenced something in the interview with Matt where I
38:54
talked about Press Engine,
38:57
SPEAKER_01: the PR services company,
38:58
SPEAKER_01: provided me a load of data around Expedition 33.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: And what I thought I'd do is I'd do Expedition 33 versus Oblivion.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: because there was this thing where Oblivion launched in the same week.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: It's really weird, but there would have been a reason for it.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: I just don't know what that reason is.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: And so during the week,
39:16
SPEAKER_01: so in the two weeks around the launch of these games,
39:19
SPEAKER_01: Elder Scrolls Oblivion scored 5,000 articles,
39:22
SPEAKER_01: just over 5,004 articles over a two week period.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: Exhibition 33 scored 4,235, which I think
39:31
SPEAKER_01: really impressive when you consider that this one's a new IP and one's an
39:34
established brand obviously Expedition 33 would have got
39:36
reviews and stuff like
39:37
that um whereas uh uh Oblivion not so much also Oblivion by the
39:41
way has been out
39:42
for longer I know Expedition 33 had been announced for longer
39:44
um but here's the
39:45
thing in terms of audience and audiences like the the unique
39:48
it's basically unique
39:49
readers you know um of these um articles Elder Scrolls Oblivion
39:53
has scored 952.8
39:53
SPEAKER_01: million
39:56
SPEAKER_01: readers of those articles.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: And Expedition 33 has done a billion.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: So more people have read Expedition 33 articles.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: In fact,
40:05
SPEAKER_01: I asked the press engine,
40:07
SPEAKER_01: okay,
40:07
how many Expedition 33 articles have been written since the
40:09
game was shown during
40:10
SPEAKER_01: the Xbox showcase?
40:11
And the answer is 9,908,
40:12
which means that,
40:12
you know,
40:13
40% maybe,
40:13
probably more than 40% of...
40:19
execution 33 coverage has come in the last couple of weeks
40:22
again not surprising the
40:22
game's just come out but it's certainly done very well in the
40:25
last couple of weeks
40:26
it's building in momentum it's growing in its success I asked
40:31
Ampere so our data
40:32
SPEAKER_01: partner Ampere
40:35
SPEAKER_01: to give us some insight into the player numbers.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: We've got this weird number from Oblivion, which is four million players.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: And you've got this one million sales from Expedition 33.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: So what is the actual performance of these games in player terms?
40:49
SPEAKER_01: That's what Ampere tracked.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: So I asked Ampere,
40:52
SPEAKER_01: this data covers the top European markets,
40:55
SPEAKER_01: so UK,
40:55
SPEAKER_01: France,
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Germany,
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Italy,
40:57
SPEAKER_01: Spain,
40:57
SPEAKER_01: those sort of markets,
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Australia,
41:00
SPEAKER_01: because I just like Australia,
41:01
SPEAKER_01: and the US and Canada.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't include Japan or China.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: And actually, I think Exhibition 33 is done pretty well in China.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: But this day is only up until Sunday.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: So Sunday, August 27th.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's just the first,
41:15
SPEAKER_01: basically the first few days of Exhibition 33,
41:17
SPEAKER_01: the first week of Oblivion.
41:18
And actually the numbers say that Expedition 33 has done 1.7
41:22
million players,
41:23
SPEAKER_01: 1.71 million players in that time.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Oblivion is just under 6 million players.
41:28
So we're looking at a sizeable difference here,
41:29
but there's a few caveats to this.
41:30
I really want to stress this isn't,
41:32
we're not comparing Oblivion and Expedition 33.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: Oblivion is an established brand.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: You launch something like that.
41:37
All the fans are going to come in or a lot of the fans are
41:39
going to come in.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Expedition 33 is a new IP.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: So that will build over time.
41:43
You know,
41:43
that number is more likely to go up and up and up faster than
41:46
Oblivion's number.
41:47
Oblivion also launched earlier so you've got a bit of a longer
41:50
play time here as
41:52
well so when we're talking about I'm not comparing the two in
41:55
terms of scale and
41:56
size at the moment Oblivion has more players but that's not
41:59
that's not surprising
42:01
but exposition 33 i was interested in a few details about it so
42:05
45 percent of
42:06
exposition 33 players are on xbox not surprised the majority of
42:10
the games played on
42:12
xbox again not surprising it's on game pass compare that to
42:15
oblivion 47 percent of
42:17
SPEAKER_01: obsidian oblivion players are on xbox now oblivion
42:21
SPEAKER_01: as well as being an Xbox game.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: Its history is sort of 360, so it's done quite well.
42:28
But ultimately those numbers are pretty similar,
42:30
both of them Game Pass games.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Exhibition, 25% of Expedition 33 players are on Steam.
42:38
that number is 34% for Oblivion so 34% of Oblivion players are
42:41
on Steam so a big
42:43
difference there and again Oblivion is sort of a western RPG in
42:45
the PC style so
42:46
again not too surprising really that PC would do really well
42:49
for Oblivion and this
42:51
is again not so surprising 30% of Expedition 33 players are on
42:53
PlayStation whereas
42:54
that number is just 19% for Oblivion and again Expedition 33
43:00
JRPG in the Final
43:01
SPEAKER_01: Fantasy style it's very much a PlayStation audience so that stuff
43:04
None of these numbers are particularly surprising but it's very
43:06
nice to see that
43:07
but ultimately the majority of players are on Xbox and that's
43:09
because of Game Pass.
43:11
Where I really wanted to delve into this is actually did they
43:15
hurt each other?
43:16
I mean I know that they're different RPGs Matt points out
43:19
they're different RPGs
43:20
one's a JRPG one's a Western RPG but when you're talking about
43:23
a game that's you
43:24
know when you're trying to appeal broadly it's just it's all
43:26
fantasy RPGs right?
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Ampere has crossover data.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: They share crossover data between one game and the next.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: 55% of people who played Expedition 33 on Xbox also played Oblivion.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: So over half of the audience on Xbox played both games.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: Expedition's audience played both games.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: Which is really,
43:50
I think that really speaks to the power of Game Pass because
43:53
Game Pass is,
43:54
SPEAKER_01: we talk about it in negative and positive terms sometimes,
43:58
SPEAKER_01: but I think the fact is that people fried both as a result of that.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: If you compare that to PlayStation,
44:06
SPEAKER_01: only 16% of PlayStation Expedition 33 players also played Oblivion.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: So that number's a lot, lot smaller.
44:11
Obviously there were premium titles on PlayStation and not in
44:14
the subscription service.
44:15
Numbers a bit higher on Steam,
44:16
22% of Steam Expedition 33 players also played Oblivion.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: But it's obviously well below the Game Pass impact.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: But that's the positive thing about Game Pass, people tried both.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: There was a big crossover there.
44:28
Overall,
44:28
by the way,
44:29
it was a 35% crossover between Expedition 33 players and
44:32
Oblivion players.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: 35% of Expedition 33 players also played Oblivion.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: So there was a big crossover there between those two audiences.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: But if you start looking at hours played,
44:44
SPEAKER_01: now this isn't just for those markets I named before,
44:46
SPEAKER_01: this is actually global numbers from Ampere.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Claire Obscure Exhibition 33 on PlayStation and Steam played around,
44:54
SPEAKER_01: on average people played that game for it.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Up until Sunday,
44:57
SPEAKER_01: remember this is just until Sunday,
44:58
4.4 hours on average people played Claire Obscure Exhibition 33
45:02
on PlayStation and Steam.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Slightly less on PlayStation but it's very close.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: Xbox, 2.2 hours.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And if you go to Oblivion,
45:12
SPEAKER_01: on Steam,
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Oblivion has been played on average,
45:16
SPEAKER_01: again,
45:16
SPEAKER_01: up until Sunday,
45:17
SPEAKER_01: 3.6 hours.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: On PlayStation, 3.8 hours.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: But Xbox, 2.2 hours.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: So that's the challenge of Game Pass.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: And again, none of this is surprising.
45:27
We know that people with Game Pass will willingly give
45:29
something a bit of a try,
45:30
SPEAKER_01: and if it's not for them,
45:31
SPEAKER_01: they'll drop it.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: And that is the challenge of Game Pass.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: But it's really, none of this data is surprising.
45:36
But it's really nice to see it sort of laid out and really
45:38
represented in these two
45:39
SPEAKER_01: games that came out side by side.
45:41
People are going to jump from one game to the other if it's in
45:44
the subscription service.
45:45
They are going to play it for less and they're more likely to
45:48
drop out a lot quicker.
45:51
regardless both games are being a big hit i was worried that
45:53
these two launching
45:54
the same week was going to cause damage to them both i think it
45:56
possibly did but i
45:58
think people who were interested in oblivion rushed in straight
46:00
away to play it and
46:01
i think people are discovering expedition 33 over time there's
46:04
an expedition 33
46:05
movie so what the numbers mean james is that two games both of
46:09
them rpgs different
46:10
types of rpgs came out in the same week and both did extremely
46:14
well and that is
46:15
SPEAKER_02: good that's that's just really encouraging like you know
46:19
SPEAKER_02: You're right,
46:19
it's always awful to see two games come out on top of each
46:22
other and is to the
46:23
SPEAKER_02: complete detriment of one.
46:26
Yeah,
46:26
because we were of a certain age,
46:27
I guess we remember the blur split second racing game.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly where my head was going, yeah.
46:32
Where they both sort of annihilate each other and sometimes one
46:35
game wins over the other.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: If you remember, is it Battleborn and Overwatch and was it Battleborn?
46:41
SPEAKER_01: Something like that.
46:43
They went head to head with each other and one of them,
46:48
you know,
46:48
just died because of that.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: And so it's always a risk.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm pleased that it, uh, yeah, he's doing so well.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: I may have said August 27th earlier.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: It is,
46:58
SPEAKER_01: I obviously meant April 27th is the Sunday just,
47:00
SPEAKER_01: if you're watching this in September,
47:02
SPEAKER_01: for some reason I'm referring to,
47:04
SPEAKER_01: we were,
47:04
SPEAKER_01: we did this back in April.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, very big success.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: It's been a busy week for game releases, and it's going to get busier.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: So next month we've got Doom's a big title out next month.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: And in June, there's a new console launch or some description.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Some little handheld.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: Some little gadget.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something dropping in there.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: But it's busy throughout the whole summer.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually quite reassured.
47:25
I think I'll do a deeper dive into the market data in a couple
47:28
of weeks time.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: But I'm really reassured by the things.
47:31
Last year we were talking about how AAA games were dying and it
47:33
was a problem.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: Star Wars Outlaws didn't do very well.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Dragon Age didn't do very well.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Final Fantasy didn't do very well.
47:38
You've heard me say this on this podcast quite a few times in
47:41
the last couple of weeks.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: But this year Monster Hunter did really well.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 did really well.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Assassin's Creed's done really well.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: Oblivion's done really well.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: Claire Obscure's done really well.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: Not everything's done very well, of course.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: Not everything can succeed,
47:57
SPEAKER_01: but there's a lot more positives at the moment,
48:01
SPEAKER_01: and hopefully that will continue.
48:03
Switch 2 seems to have sold out,
48:04
and hopefully that will maintain as well.
48:06
SPEAKER_02: Good start.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: Four months into the year, and we've got five or six big hits.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that's a promising start.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: Some of them are breakout hits like Claire Obscure, but...
48:18
SPEAKER_01: A lot of them have been like,
48:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
48:19
SPEAKER_01: they're doing the numbers you sort of expect them to do,
48:21
SPEAKER_01: but even that feels like a win.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: Assassin's Creed has done, you know, what good Assassin's Creed games do.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, great.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: Because Star Wars Outlaws didn't and Avengers didn't.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: Not Avengers, sorry, Avatar didn't.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a win.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: You know,
48:38
to see RPGs doing really well shortly after Dragon Age sort of
48:41
missed as well and
48:41
SPEAKER_01: Final Fantasy missed last year as well.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: It's been a certainly busy start to the year.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: Success is being had, new IPs, established brands, remakes.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling really positive about the market at the moment.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
48:53
SPEAKER_01: there's the tariffs and the impact upon that,
48:55
SPEAKER_01: and there's the wider economic conditions,
48:56
SPEAKER_01: loads of things to be anxious about.
48:58
But in terms of the data that we have for the first few months
49:01
of the year,
49:01
SPEAKER_01: well,
49:02
SPEAKER_01: not the data so much.
49:03
I think overall,
49:03
the markets,
49:04
you know,
49:05
we had Power World and Hellwell Divers 2 last year.
49:07
But I think looking at individual successes,
49:10
I think there's certainly enough positives.
49:13
SPEAKER_02: In a past life,
49:13
this is usually where I'd just stop you talking and I'd rattle
49:16
off all the kind of,
49:18
SPEAKER_02: you know,
49:18
SPEAKER_01: you don't have the course.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: How do I conclude this podcast, Chris?
49:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to do it.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: I don't know all the housekeeping stuff, do I?
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, OK, then I'll take back over.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, James, for being a literal guest host this week.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: And thank you, everyone, for listening and tuning in.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: The Game Business will be back next week.
49:36
We have a feature show,
49:38
which is going to be quite exciting,
49:39
featuring CD Projekt.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: We've also got our news analysis show.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: We have some extra data there.
49:44
And maybe even another returning member of the
49:46
GamesIndustry.biz team will be
49:47
SPEAKER_01: joining me on that show as well.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: James, I hope you'll come back at some point.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: Steve at Digital Banditos, thank you for lending us your...
49:55
uh lending us your james um hopefully we can have you back at
49:58
some point in the
49:59
near future as well and also stay tuned to thegamebusiness.com
50:03
um for uh news on
50:05
our event hopefully in it'll be soon hopefully it'll be soon um
50:09
and if you want to
50:09
make sure you don't miss the show if you want to make sure that
50:11
you catch all of
50:12
the future episodes and any breaking news stories um sign up to
50:16
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50:17
it's free you just need to go on the website stick your email
50:19
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50:19
SPEAKER_01: the stuff directly to your inbox it's handy thank you all for tuning in
50:25
you