Latest / Off the Page / Episode 003-Tom Straw & K. R. Raye-The Accidental Joe
Transcript
- K. R. Raye: Salutations, readers. Welcome to Off the Page Podcast with KR Raye, "Your authorpreneur. This is the place where stories leap off the page. Every episode, we explore the characters and stories that stay with us and resonate long after we finish reading the book or watching the show. I'm the host, KR Raye, "Your Authorpreneur." and authorpreneurs, just like entrepreneurs, wear multiple hats. In my case, I'm an award-winning author. Screenwriter, podcaster, speaker, and publisher. Today's guest is fellow Authorpreneur Tom Straw. Tom is an Emmy and Writers Guild of America nominated writer and producer. He's a New York Times bestselling author and former Mystery Writers of America board member. Writing as Richard Castle, Tom originated the Nikki Heat series, which were all New York Times bestsellers. And under his own name, he's published The Trigger Episode, Buzzkiller, and the USA Today best-selling spy thriller, The Accidental Joe. In TV, Tom wrote for and produced Night Court, Dave's World, Grace Under Fire, and Nurse Jackie. And he also wrote for CBS's Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson. But today, we're gonna try to focus on just one hat, and that's his role as producer. So, without further ado, Tom Straw, welcome to Off the Page. It's wonderful to have you here with us. Tom Straw: please, please, please. KR, it's great to see you again. my only regret is that I wish I had come up with authorpreneur. That's a great K. R. Raye: Ha ha ha. Tom Straw: what a what a great portmanteau that is. That's great. K. R. Raye: And you definitely have been doing this for decades and having so many hats that you're wearing, it's just amazing. So we're gonna jump right in. As authors Tom Straw: Okay. K. R. Raye: and creatives, we understand the importance of characters and stories to our audience. So in our first segment, the character we won't forget, with your latest project, which is developing The Accidental Joe for streaming. Tell me more about the protagonist, Sebastian Pike. Discuss what makes audiences emotionally attach to him and certain characters. Tom Straw: Well, you know, the thing is, I believe that your characters should be relatable, not necessarily likable, but you want the audience to identify or the reader to identify with the character. and I think we've come to a time in media now where you have a lot of antiheroes and I think Pike is one of those. he's forgiven a lot because he has a sense of humor. I don't know where he got that. Do you? K. R. Raye: Can't imagine. Tom Straw: But you know, when I wrote the book and the i actually the idea that came to me for the book, which literally came to me on a I was running one morning, it hit me like lightning, is what if Anthony Bourdain had been using his show to spy for the CIA? And I K. R. Raye: Sure. Tom Straw: thought, Wow, don't forget that so I kept repeating it on my way home. but you know, that to me is the nugget of what it's all about. I'm proud to say that I was invited to the CIA to have a meeting with them about a year ago. And they they loved that idea. I said, well it's all yours. You know, he's not around, but somebody K. R. Raye: Of course. Tom Straw: must be. Yeah, yeah. But I think that to me is a head start on hooking a reader, I hope, and a viewer, which is that he's reached iconic, almost mythical status in real life. Although Sebastian Pike is totally different, there are overlaps of course, but I I tried to forge him out of some chef friends of mine and my pea brained imagination. K. R. Raye: Your imagination is way more than pea brain, just to let you know. But that is showing how compelling this character is that the CIA is now inviting you over to talk to them and thinking about this. So that's the the hallmark of writing a character you just won't forget. Tom Straw: the way, can I tell you how weird it was? I mean, I was pinch me the whole time. Like, I can't believe I'm at the CIA. And there's Osama bin Laden's A K forty seven that they have under glass. And, you know, I see all these things and then they usher me into a boardroom and they have reserved the head of the table for me and there's actual spies who are there to answer my questions and who knows, maybe to get a little information out of me. You never know. K. R. Raye: Like hmm. Tom Straw: actually what I said when I pointed to the chair, I said, I'm not sitting here, I've seen too many James Bond movies. I know it happens. K. R. Raye: Exactly. So now the CIA has an author that's also like Tom Straw: Yes, yes. K. R. Raye: Secretly spying, no, no. Tom Straw: Yes. K. R. Raye: That's gonna segue right into the second segment, The Scene that Stayed with You. So as your role as producer or screenwriter or author, can you discuss a scene, story, film, book moment that emotionally impacted you and why? Tom Straw: In my own book or anywhere? K. R. Raye: Any anywhere. It can definitely be your own book and or anywhere else. Cause you've done a lot of different things and you've seen a lot of different things. Tom Straw: I I have many, many film moments I love. but if I had if I had to say I'm gonna come at you from left field I don't know if you ever saw Apollo 13 K. R. Raye: yes. Lovely. Tom Straw: To to me as a as a director, that's another one of my hats by the way, as a director, when I saw that film, what stuck with me was there was one shot, not even a scene, there was one shot in that movie that was genius. And that is when they have all of the engineers at NASA and they're in that room and they have a big table, and Ron Howard, who directed it, had an overhead camera shot of the table. And what they did is they plopped everything on that table that was up there in the capsule, and they said to themselves, We can only work with what we have here. And to me that was genius because it was dramatic, it was defining, it was expository, and it was a holy S moment. You know what I mean? K. R. Raye: Exactly. As an engineer, so one of my hats before the author, I'm an actual mechanical engineer. And it's so funny that you said that because literally I at one point in my career I've worked for Jet Propulsion Laboratory. And so that scene stuck with me so much because you're only stuck with what they have up there. And if you cannot solve this, everybody dies. Tom Straw: also with all the technology and you know more about it having been at JPL is it comes down to duct tape, you know what I mean? K. R. Raye: Yes. Du duct tape duct tape saves everything. It is the magic elixir that that works on everything. Tom Straw: And if it doesn't work, the only answer is more duct tape. K. R. Raye: More duct tape. Tom Straw: So I could have gone to many other films, books, whatever, 'cause there are great moments in cinema and in literature that have moved me greatly. but to me that's I liked the fact that it was a sliver. It was just a little beat. K. R. Raye: Yes. Yes. and coming back to that too, having to wear all the different hats of author, screenwriter, producer, director, how do you really translate what goes on in your books to the big screen? I know there are a number of authors that would love to have their books translated to the big screen or the small screen or anything in between. And how do you really pull from the the book, the screenplay, and then have that come up on the screen. Tom Straw: have to say first of all we're gonna be pitching this this month so we're going out with it in the next couple weeks so fingers crossed K. R. Raye: Fingers crossed. Tom Straw: and I'm I'm slate I'll be writing it you know I'll be writing the the the the pilot and running the show and all that and I have great producing partners they do a show on Netflix called The Night Agent if you've seen that that show. K. R. Raye: I love that. I love that. Tom Straw: Yeah they're my producing partners they're great people Seth Seth Gordon and Julia Gunn. I wanna mention them. But as we got into conversation about moving forward, I was able to assuage them because sometimes the worst thing you can do is hire the the book writer to do the screenplay because they K. R. Raye: Did it screenplay or the yes, the show. Tom Straw: want wait a minute, my words, my precious words, you know. And and my mant K. R. Raye: You cannot cut them. What is wrong with you? This character cannot die. Tom Straw: my mantra is the book is the book, the show is the show. And I think one of the best ways I've heard it put is David Mammoth. Who once said the best way to adapt a book to the screen is to read the book, put it in a drawer, and just write what you remember. And that's really the way to do it. What what what are the essentials of the story? Don't worry about the things you fall in love with. What are what moves the story forward at every turn? K. R. Raye: That is such excellent advice. That's one of the things exactly like you said, where so many times Hollywood doesn't want the book author, anywhere near the series or the the show or the movie because no, we can't do exactly that. And that's such great advice of just read the book, put it in drawer. What do you remember? What emotionally resonates with you? Which absolutely takes us to our next segment of tying it all together, the emotional core, what makes it real, right? And so can you pull further on that and discuss some of the central emotional tension inside your work or creative process? Tom Straw: You know, that's an excellent question because you would think that the spy work and the tension around that would be, my God, what's gonna happen? and you do want that. But none of that happens unless you have the emotional core. Because number one, your reader or your audience has to care. If they don't care about the character, there's no tension. There's no stakes. I don't care. And and many are the movies that I watch that I say to myself, who cares? You know, why would you bother? so I spent a lot of time and when I created Sebastian Pike, you know, Anthony Bourdain had his own stuff going on. I created a different world for Sebastian. backstory, deep regrets in his life. I I won't go into all of them 'cause I don't want to spoil the book for those who haven't read it yet. available now. K. R. Raye: Available now. Tom Straw: available now. But I really dug deep into what were his Flaws, what were his worries? when I when I write a book or do any project, I create a biography of my main characters. and in his case, I think it's like five or six pages single-spaced. And I just flew. I just wrote stuff that I thought of. it's funny what it seems like an exercise, but a line came to me when I was writing it. Which was Sebastian Pike was born in the backseat of a getaway car. And that to me was the true north of a guy who's constantly traveling, has some kind of like weird upbringing, because his mother was having a an affair with a smash and grab jewelry thief. So they were in the in it, and he thought it was take it take your girlfriend to work day. So Sebastian's born in the car. I say this because when I direct, it's the same thing I do with actors. think about don't just walk through the door onto the set. Where where are you coming from? Who was talking to you beforehand? What are you afraid of? What do you need out of this? Those are the things that you have to do, the private work we call it, to have the characters be rounded and full. And I also paired him with his producer who he learns, that's the accidental part. He learns his producer is using his show as cover for CIA operations. And they have a romantic thing going, and she has her own baggage. her ex-fiance, who was a recruiter for CIA, she found to her horror that he was selling secrets to the Russians. And so he's in prison and you know, she's got she's burned, she feels really bad, and so she's a little reticent to get involved in another relationship, particularly with the the Joe she's running. So K. R. Raye: Exactly. Tom Straw: that all becomes all part of the fabric of of what goes on and what will inform future books and few future seasons of The Accidental Joe. K. R. Raye: I talk about emotional core and making it real. You've got all of the the love, the drama, the suspense, the craziness of you know, we Tom Straw: And he doesn't trust her. That's the thing too. He's in love with her, but he she's by by the nature of her work she has to lie and she does it very easily. K. R. Raye: Yes. Tom Straw: And he's starting to worry, like, Well wha what about what you're telling me? So that's it K. R. Raye: What's real and what's not. Tom Straw: And and and beyond and this is sort of like what I was talking about, the Ron Howard shot, is this goes beyond the spy work. This is like anybody in any relationship has these things. So K. R. Raye: Right. Yes. Tom Straw: that's the universal part of the of of why you care, I hope. K. R. Raye: Correct. If you can't trust the person that you're supposed to love, it makes everything in life way more difficult. And if you can't trust the communication that they're giving you, I mean, that's the heart of it. Tom Straw: Right. And I'll confess I'm a victim of my past. There is a little bit of like the the feel of a Castle relationship going on between the two of them. K. R. Raye: when you have that kind of gold mine and like a Castle character, that's very easy to bring that forward and tweak it because again, you're hitting the heart of the emotional core with all of us. We want love, we want to be loved, and we wanna be able to trust those that are around us. Tom Straw: Right. Yeah. So you're rooting for them to get together, but he's he wants her but he's not sure, and she likes him, but she's not sure. K. R. Raye: yeah. Tom Straw: And their lives are at stake and they depend on each other. So there you have it. K. R. Raye: Because you gotta have the high stakes and life or death, highest stakes you can get. Tom Straw: Yeah. Yeah. You have to. K. R. Raye: You have to. that's actually a really cool like follow-up question for that, especially with all the hats that you wear, author and screenwriter and and director and producer. Where do you Tom Straw: I have a few of them right here, in fact. I could it's one of my sorry, go ahead. K. R. Raye: I love that. Where do you usually begin? Do you begin with character plot? That what if question that you had with The Accidental Joe? I know for me as an author, I will see things on the screen first and then make that into both book and then screenplay. Where does it begin with you? Tom Straw: It always starts with character and and in fact even that little bolt from the blue I had about Anthony Bourdain, it had no plot attached to it. I just thought, okay, here's a person who would be obviously the fish out of water. what would it be like for him to be in that situation and who is he? And that's why I did that deep dive of five pages into who he was. And then the plot came. And of course, he stayed the same all through the the book, but the beats revised greatly as I went along and I realized no he wouldn't do that or I can do better here and and you know this is the audience will see this coming so I need to make it a little bit more twisted. So the plot I won't say it's easy, but to me if I don't have a character I care about, I can't do anything. K. R. Raye: You tie that all exactly full circle when you're talking about those characters that stay with you, then lead to the scenes and at the heart of it all is that emotional core that makes everything real. this looks real too. Tom Straw: The master of all that to me is I always aim high is John le Carré. nobody and I just finished reading The Honorable School Boy last month, and I have to say I haven't read all his books because I don't want to run out, but he like nobody else created a whole menagerie of characters, all of whom were fully rounded, fully developed, all had motives, all had quirks. all had passions and I don't think anybody has done the fine granular work like he did to make all those things make you care. K. R. Raye: Yes. I love it. perfect. well that wraps up our interview section. We're gonna go over now to No, no, Tom Straw: Okay. no. No. K. R. Raye: you still got a marketing minute you gotta come up with. Tom Straw: right, okay. K. R. Raye: So this section, the Marketing Minute, is where our guest is gonna share his best marketing tip. And for all of us, we all know how important marketing is for producers, authors, creatives, because without getting the word out there to our audiences, you know, we'd we don't have any success, right? in reality, everyone has to market themselves nowadays, whether it's for work, school, and relationships. So Tom, I'm gonna put 60 seconds on my timer and please share your best marketing advice or tip. Are you ready? Tom Straw: I've I'll take a deep breath. Here we go. K. R. Raye: Here we go. Go for it. Tom Straw: it's gonna sound a little elitist, but I have to say it. If you can possibly afford it, get a PR person, because a professional will not only guide you in how to market what you're doing, but they open doors to things that you never thought of. You know, the Goodreads contests, the giveaways, the podcasts like this one that you could go on. That is a very good thing to do. If you cannot afford a PR person, I would say put on your big boy pants and learn. study who does well, how does it work? Get a website and keep it updated. Learn learn the technical stuff. get all the savvy that you can get into what the technology can do to put yourself out there on social media, especially. It's a great tool. It's an an infuriating one, but it works. K. R. Raye: Most definitely. That was great. And that was the sixty seconds. And I so agree with that because funny enough that you mentioned that, my PR firm was the one that said, You are so good with talking to people and you wanna have like your at work adapted and and you know, get traditionally published and what better way than to have a podcast and talk to all the different authors and screenwriters and producers and directors. I was like, Well, there you go. Tom Straw: Well th your PR people are right. I remember the wonderful time we had on our panel at C 3 It so fun. K. R. Raye: That was such an amazing time. I still die laughing at the shenanigans we talked about with screenplay adaptation. Tom Straw: That's Yeah. I was thinking about that this morning and I remember there was some guy on the far end, it was on on my far right. He tried to pin me down with some question I didn't want to answer because it was one of those you know, you landmines that you could step on. And so I just finally called him out on it. I said, If you think I'm gonna answer that, you're crazy. Yeah. K. R. Raye: Crazy, not doing it. Tom Straw: I didn't have to do that with you today, but I'm I I remember we had a great time. That's the that was my takeaway. K. R. Raye: We had the best time. and so talking about the best time and continuing the conversation, Tom, before we wrap up, I'm gonna definitely make sure to include all the links in the notes below, but where can listeners connect with you online? Tom Straw: Online you can I I'm not on X anymore for obvious reasons, but I am on Facebook a lot. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Threads, and I'm on Blue Sky, even though nobody ever wants to talk to on Blue Sky. I don't get it. It's K. R. Raye: I know, right? Tom Straw: it's weird. And I also have a website, Tomstraw dot com. But I I use K. R. Raye: Excellent. Tom Straw: that because all the other names were taken. K. R. Raye: It's good when you can get your name out there as much as possible. Tom Straw: Yeah. K. R. Raye: Awesome. Well, a big thank you to the listeners for joining our conversation, celebrating the characters and stories that stay with us, and the incredible people like Tom who bring them to life. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode. You can also continue the conversation by joining our off-the-page community at www.patreon.com/slash K R Raye. That's www.p-a-t-r- E-o-n dot com slash kr r a y e. Tom, thank you so very much for spending time with us today and sharing your vast, prolific decades of wisdom with us. We so appreciate it. And Tom Straw: Thank you, KR. I have to tell you I've been looking forward to doing this and I'm not disappointed. It was a wonderful occasion for us to get together, I think. K. R. Raye: thank you, thank you, thank you. I cannot thank you enough. And to our lovely audience, thanks for joining us for another edition of Off the Page Podcast, wishing you peace, love, and happiness. Until next time. Thanks, everybody.