Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Chad Daybell Trial (Part 21) (10/23/26)

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Mega Edition: Chad Daybell Trial (Part 21) (10/23/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're gonna get right back to the Chad
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Daybell trial, and we're gonna pick up with what happened
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: on day number 21. To do that, once again, we're
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: using East Idaho News, and the author of this article
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: is Nate Eaton. 8.29 a.m., Chad Daybell is in a
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: blue checkered shirt and a red tie. Defense attorney John
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Pryor is sitting next to him. Lindsay Blake, Rob Wood,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and Ingrid Beatty and Rocky Wixom are at the prosecution's table.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Larry Woodcock and Vicki Hoban, Tammy's aunt, are also here. 8.35 a.m.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Jurors are in their seats. The first witness today will
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: be former Fremont County Deputy Coroner Cammie Wilmore. Lindsay Blake
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: will question her. 8.37 a.m. Wilmore has been an EMT
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: for 15 years. She became Deputy Coroner in February-March 2019
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and worked with Brenda Dye. Wilmore is no longer a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Deputy Coroner. Blake asks what an unattended death. It's when
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: someone dies and they aren't under the care of a
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: hospice or a doctor at the time. 8.39 a.m. Wilmore
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: responded to Tammy Daybell's death on October 19th, 2019. She
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: had only responded to five to six unattended deaths up
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: to that point because she was new in her position.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Wilmore did not know Chad or Tammy Daybell. 8.40 a.m.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Fremont County Deputy Greenhall was at the home when Wilmore arrived.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: So was Chad. He was distraught, crying. Stating that his
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: wife had passed away, Wilmore says, Chad's son, Garth Daybell,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: then came into the bedroom later. He was very quiet
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and did not say much. I've tried not to be
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: too judgmental of Chad Daybell's family, but man, you would
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: think that if your mom was killed or died that
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you'd want some answers, right? I know I'd be pining
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: for a autopsy. So how did mom die? What happened?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: What was wrong with her? Do I have to worry
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: about anything that she might have had? But instead, Chad
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Daybell went the other way, right? Nah, we don't need
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: an autopsy. Let's just get this show on the road. 8.41 a.m.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Wilmore spoke with Chad about Tammy's health history and what
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: he thought had happened. She asked if he had any
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: medical issues and Chad said she had not, but in
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: the past month or so, she had hypertension and lightheadedness.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Chad said Tammy had been a bit clumsy. 8.42 a.m.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Chad said Tammy had been vomiting in the bathroom during
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the night. but after she threw up, they went back
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to sleep. Chad said Tammy was menopausal and she liked
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: to sleep with one leg outside of the covers. Chad
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: said Tammy fell out of the bed. She kind of
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: slipped out and one leg was entangled in a blanket
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: or a sheet. Tammy assumed part of her body was
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: on the ground with one leg entangled in the sheets. 8.46 a.m.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Blake shows a photo of the bedroom. Wilmore noticed Tammy's
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: legs were stiff and figured she had been dead for
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: a while. Wilmore took the sheet down and looked at
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: her face and neck. She noticed some bruises on her bicep,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: but she thought maybe Tammy had bumped into something. She
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: said it looked like an older bruise, not fresh. 8.48 a.m.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Wilmore noticed foam coming out of Tammy's mouth. She had
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: never seen something like this before and was surprised. Wilmore
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: knew the coroner was coming, so she didn't want to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: do anything with the body until she arrived. 8.48 a.m.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Wilmore arrived at the house around 6.35, 6.40 a.m., The
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Daybell home was about six miles away from Wilmore's home.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: She says it was clear there was no need for
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: emergency services because Tammy was dead. Because Tammy was stiff,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Wilmore knew, Tammy had been dead for at least a
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: few hours, not just recently, 8.50 a.m. There was not
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of bruises. A medical examiner would determine the
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: age of the bruises, not a coroner, Wilmore says. When
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: coroner Brenda Dye arrived, Wilmore inspected Tammy's body again. dye
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: wiped the foam off Tammy's mouth and more came out.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I remember feeling like that was weird. I hadn't really
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: seen that before. So the question is, what caused all
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: that foam? It wasn't naturally occurring, so there was a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: reason that Tammy was foaming at the mouth, and there's
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a reason why Tammy died. 8.52 a.m. Blake shows a
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: photo of the bedroom again, and there's a small white
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: towel on the floor. That was the towel used to
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: wipe away the foam. 8.52 a.m. Wilmore says the phone
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: bugged her so she pulled out her phone and looked
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: up poisoning because it was an unusual looking amount of foam.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: She didn't find anything about poisoning online. 8.54 a.m. Wilmore
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: did not see any indication on Tammy's head that she
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: had fallen out of the bed and hit it on
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the nightstand. 8.55 a.m. Chad never mentioned seizures or fanning
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: spells to Wilmore. Chad told her that Tammy didn't go
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: to the doctors. Wilmore noticed a book on the nightstand
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: about natural healing. She thought maybe that's why Tammy passed away.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: She was sick and wasn't seeing a doctor but trying
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: to treat herself. 8.57 a.m. No medication inside the home
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: stood out to Wilmore. Wilmore provided information she gathered to
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Di when Di arrived. Wilmore deferred to Di when Di
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: showed up. Wilmore and Di spoke about whether an autopsy
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: should be done. Di determined one should not happen. Wilmore
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: remembers asking Chad if he wanted an autopsy and he
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: said no. 8.59 a.m. Wilmore had never heard the names
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: of J.J. Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Lori Vallow, or Alex Cox.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: She has since heard those names. Blake has nothing further.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Pryor will now cross-examine. 9 a.m. Pryor asks Wilmore about
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Chad mentioning Tammy had been clumsy. She says Chad said
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Tammy had been lightheaded and clumsy. Pryor asks Wilmore about
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: her interview with the FBI. 9 a.m. Pryor asks about
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the book on Tammy's nightstand. The title was about essential oils, herbs...
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: homeopathic remedies, and William says there were a few homeopathic
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: medicines in the cabinet. Prior asks if any other members
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: of the Daybell family were present when she and I
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: spoke with him about having an autopsy. 9.03 a.m. Prior
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: asks if another family member may have suggested not having
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: an autopsy. Wilmore doesn't recall. Prior asks if it's possible
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Chad told Wilmore that Tammy didn't see any doctors about
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: her illness. Wilmore says all she recalls is Chad saying
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Tammy Didn't really see doctors too much. 9.05 a.m. Chad
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: mentioned Tammy had not been feeling well for about a
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: month or so. He mentioned she had some lightheadedness. Pryor
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: asks about the towel used to wipe away the foam
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and if she looked at it before wiping the mouth.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Wilmore says she didn't use the towel. Brenda Dye did.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Wilmore did not look at the towel before it was used. 9.07 a.m.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks about the bruises on Tammy's arms. She says
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: there may be two to three total bruises. Not enough
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: to consider anything suspicious. They looked older. 9.09 a.m. Pryor
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: asks if someone has a heavy lung, if there could
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: be foaming at the mouth. Wilmore knew about heart issues
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that might cause foaming, but she didn't know enough about
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: what could cause it. Pryor is finished. Blake will now redirect. 9.10 a.m.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Blake asks Wilmore if she looked at prescription medication. Wilmore
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't recall seeing any. Wilmore did not have the benefit
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: of reviewing medical records and was going off information only
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: provided by Chad. Wilmore says she can't be 100% sure
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: of determining whether the bruise is new or old simply
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: by looking at it. That would be determined during an autopsy. 9.11 a.m.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Blake asks if asphyxiation could cause foam. Wilmore says yes.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: There are no further questions and Wilmore is released from
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the subpoena. 9.12 a.m. Next witness is Jason William, Tammy's brother-in-law.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Jason is married to Samantha William, Tammy's sister. Rocky Wixom
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: will be questioning him. 9.13 a.m. Jason worked with Chad
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and they lived near each other for years. They were
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: pretty close before this case. Jason married Samantha in 1995. 9.14.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Jason and his family would see Chad and his family
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: at least once or twice a week. Jason and Chad
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: saw each other up to four or five times a week.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: They went to the same church and Jason and Chad
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: shared shops. Chad and Jason worked together for six months
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: before Chad moved up to Idaho. I feel Chad and
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I were very close. 9.16 a.m. Jason says he and
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Chad would talk about different issues about family, religion, just
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: about anything. I feel like we had some really deep
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: conversations in regards to a number of things as two
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: friends and brothers-in-law would. 9.17 a.m. Wixom asked if there
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: was anything specific In his discussions with Chad. Where Chad
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: shared concern. About his relationship with Tammy. Just that it
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: was a little vanilla. He said they had a lot
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of general routine. That they go through. Jason says. 918 AM.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Jason says Chad. Shared an experience one time. About being
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: in water in La Jolla California. Where he was beat
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: up with some rocks. Chad shared another experience. About jumping
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: off cliffs. In Flaming Gorge Utah. Where he felt like
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: his spirit left his body. This conversation. happened in the
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: early 2000s. You know, I had that same experience, but
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I was on acid. 9.20 a.m. Jason says Chad's religious
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: views changed around 2006-2007 and he became hyper-focused on preparing
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: for end of times. It became an obsession and more
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: than normal, Jason says. Chad told Jason he was experiencing
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: visions around 2010 and 11 about how things would play
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: out in the last days. 9.21 a.m. Wixom Asked about
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Chad's near-death experiences, Jason says the stories changed and became
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: more elaborate. Jason was concerned that the stories were not
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: consistent and became more of a narrative. Around 2013-2014, Chad
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Jason there would be earthquakes, destruction in America, and invading
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: troops from different countries would come into the Americas. Yeah,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: that all worked out, huh? For a prophet, this dude
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: gets absolutely nothing correct. 9.24 a.m. Jason said this was
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: a fear tactic. I know more than you, and you
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: should listen to me. He says wars and rumors of
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: wars create fears. Chad and his family moved to Idaho
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: in 2015. Chad invited Jason and his family to move
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: with him. Chad felt it would be good to have
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Jason and his family move to escape the earthquake and
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: desolation that was going to happen in Utah. Chad said
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Rexburg would be a city of light and a place
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of refuge. 9.26 a.m. Jason was curious and originally believed
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: some of Chad's visions. Jason didn't feel it was right
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to move to Idaho. There were things going on, to me,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: that didn't feel right. Jason visited Idaho, but it wasn't
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: a place where he wanted to move. Jason told Chad
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: he wasn't going to move. Chad asked them again to move.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Jason would visit Idaho for family functions. 9.27 a.m. Chad
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: wrote Jason a letter in 2016 and told him that
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: he needed to be in Idaho. He said there would
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: be a huge earthquake within three years and Jason's house
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: would be destroyed. Chad told Jason that the dark spirits
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: would allow Samantha to go south, but she could not
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: come to Idaho. Jason wasn't thrilled when Chad said that.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I have a responsibility and stewardship over my family. That's
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: not Chad's responsibility. Well, my friend, talking to Chad, entertaining
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: his stupid ideas, and not telling him he's a moron,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: you're putting your family at risk. And in fact, Tammy
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: ended up dead. 9.29am. Jason felt Chad was trying to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: control his family. When Jason and his family came to
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: visit Chad in Idaho, Chad talked about how nice it was.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: In 2016, Chad showed Jason around Rexburg and BYU, Idaho.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: He was showing me that this would be a place
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: as a city of light and there would be a
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: refuge for people to come. There would be tent cities
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and areas where he would expand his property and turn
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: it into a tent city. Yo, you want a tent city,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: come to Las Vegas and head down the Boulder Highway.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Plenty of tent city for you. 9.31 a.m. After that visit,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Jason had a gut feeling he was not supposed to
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: be there. Jason told Chad he would not be coming up.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Jason thought Tammy was a sweetheart. She was kind, gentle person.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: She had a lot of people's best interests at heart. 9.32 a.m.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Jason says Tammy was not thrilled about going to Idaho.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Tammy loved being around her family and had a good
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: relationship with Samantha. She was happy in Springville, Utah, and
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: she had cousins, aunts, nieces, and nephews. The majority of
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the family was there and they had a lot of
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: interaction with each other. 9.33 a.m. Jason says Tammy and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Chad were a loving couple. Their interactions were fine and appropriate.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Jason says during the last year of Tammy's life, Jason
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: says they saw each other at a Christmas party in 2018.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: At one time, Chad and his family went to Utah. Chad, Tammy, Samantha,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and Jason were sitting in a hot tub. They were
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: not engaging the conversation with the group. Jason says it
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: was different. Jason didn't bring it up with Chad but
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: said something to Samantha. 9.36 a.m. Jason was running errands
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: when he learned Tammy had died. Samantha calls him and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Jason says he was stunned. I had seen Tammy two
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: weeks prior and it didn't seem that somebody of her
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: age and her condition should have passed. Tammy came to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Jason's house and stayed. She came down to visit family
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and parents. 9.37 a.m. Tammy was healthy and happy. Jason
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: says He did not feel she had gained or lost
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: any weight. Jason went home and hugged his wife after
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: learning Tammy died. I was devastated. You don't know what
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: you can do at that time, but you want to
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: do something. Around 11 a.m. or noon on the day
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Tammy died, Jason and Chad spoke. They discussed getting in
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: touch with a mortician, the head of the church congregation,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the basic things you needed for a funeral. Chad said
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: he wanted the funeral on Tuesday, and Jason was surprised.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: He felt that was very quick. 9.40 a.m. Jason asked
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Chad how Tammy died. Chad said Tammy rolled out of
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: bed and he found her dead. 9.41 a.m. Jason went
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: with Stephen Schultz, the mortician from Springville to Rexburg, to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: pick up Tammy's body. Chad and his kids were at
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the house. Chad seemed relatively normal and there was not
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of mourning. Jason asked Chad if he was
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: okay and Chad said, I'm fine. I'm all cried out. 9.42 a.m.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Jason says Chad just seemed off. I didn't feel like
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: it was normal when someone just lost a spouse, but
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: everyone does things different, so I didn't think any more
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: about it. Jason and Steve Schultz picked up the body
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: from the funeral home in Rexburg and drove Tammy to Utah. 9.44 a.m.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: There was a viewing on Monday night and one on
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Tuesday morning. On Monday, Chad was busy greeting people, so
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: he and Jason didn't have much time to interact. On Tuesday,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: there was a family prayer, and Jason said, It seemed
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: different and off. Chad was rocking back and forth side
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: to side and was not crying, but trying to cry. 9.46 a.m.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: During the funeral, Jason was watching one of Chad's grandchildren
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: in the back. Jason didn't get to observe as much
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: as he would have liked. After the funeral, the family
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: went to the cemetery and they were there for a while.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Then the luncheon was held at the church. Everyone arrived
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and waited 25 to 30 minutes for Chad to arrive.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Chad called and said to have lunch start without him.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Chad didn't arrive for another 15 minutes. Chad was around
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: 45 minutes late for the luncheon. 9.48 a.m. Chad finally
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: arrived and said he and the kids needed to get
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: back to Rexburg for the memorial the next day. Jason said,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: given his history with Chad, it was very unusual. 9.50 a.m.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Around a month after the funeral, Jason reached out to
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Chad to see how he was doing. Chad asked Jason
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: if he had been speaking to Heather Daybell, his sister-in-law,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: married to Matt Daybell, his brother. Jason was not close
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: to Heather and was calling to check on Chad, not
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: to talk about Heather. 9.51 a.m. Jason said no, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Chad said Heather was spreading rumors about him in Rexburg.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Chad said it wasn't important, but while he was in Hawaii,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: he got married. Jason was very surprised to hear Chad
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: had gotten married. It's not common to marry someone within
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: a month, maybe of a wife passing, when he was
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: as close as he was with his spouse. Or was he, right?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe that was all just his ploy. Oh, I'm so
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: close to my wife. I love her so much. Boom,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: this happens. 9.52 a.m. Jason didn't know what to say.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: He said, who is she? Chad said her name was
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Lori Ryan, and she was 5'6, 120 pounds, physically fit,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: worked out, and an amazing person. Chad said Lori's husband
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: had died of a heart attack in 2019. Jason asked
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: if she had kids. Chad said Lori had some grown children.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: At that point, Jason had never heard of JJ and Tylee.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Jason wanted to know when Chad got married, but he
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: did not share that. Of course, he didn't hear about
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the kids. The kids were never a part of the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: grand scheme. 9.56 a.m. A day or so later, Jason
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: called Chad again. He wanted to know when Chad got married.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Chad said he got married on November 5th. During their
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: first call, Chad asked Jason not to tell anyone that
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: he'd been married. Jason said he needed to call Tammy's
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: parents to let them know. 9.55 a.m. Chad told Jason
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: that his kids knew he was going to get married
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: before he went to Hawaii. Jason asked how they kept
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: it a secret. Chad said, my kids are good at
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: keeping secrets. He did not explain what he meant by that.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Several jurors are taking notes. 9.56 a.m. The next contact
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Jason had with Chad was the day Tammy got exhumed.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Chad texted and said he needed to talk with him.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Samantha was on the phone. and said it was on speaker.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Chad asked Samantha and Jason if they knew Tammy had
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: been exhumed and if they were responsible for it. Jason
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and Samantha did not know anything about it. 9.58 a.m.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Chad mentioned that on the day of Tammy's funeral, his
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: wife appeared to him and said it was time to
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: move on, meaning get remarried. On December 18, 2019, Jason
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: received a call from law enforcement and met them at
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the Springville Police Department. Jason learned that there were two
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: missing kids affiliated with Lori and Chad. 10 a.m. Police
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: told Jason they could not find the children. Jason was
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: concerned because Chad had told him that Lori had older children,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: but there were minor children that were missing. Jason also
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: was concerned that police could not get in touch with
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Chad and Lori. 10 a.m. Law enforcement from the FBI,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Madison County Sheriff's Office, Fremont County Sheriff's Office, and Rexburg
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Police were there. Jason told police he would call Chad
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: and ask officers to record the call. Chad answered. Wixom
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: moves to admit the call. 10.02 a.m. Morning recess. We'll
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: be back in 25 minutes. All right, we're going to
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: wrap up part one right there. And in the next episode,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. All
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: back to the program. This episode we're picking up where
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: we left off with the Chad Daybell trial, once again
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: using EastIdahoNews.com, and the author of this article is Nate Eaton. 10.30 a.m.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Back in the courtroom, jurors are being brought back in. 10.32 a.m.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Jason says he asked law enforcement to record the call
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: because there might be information that might help find the
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: missing kids. Jason, Chad, and Lori were on the call. 10.34am
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Wixom plays a small portion of the call for Jason
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: to authenticate. 10.35am Jason tells Chad people are asking questions
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: about some kids. Jason says he doesn't know anything. Chad
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: says the police... went to his daughter Leah's house and
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: tried to threaten her. Chad says they are unsure what
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: they are trying to accomplish. It's mainly one detective in Rexburg.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Chad says they finally got a hold of an attorney
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: in Rexburg. 10.37 a.m. Jason wanted to get the name
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: of the attorney to give it to law enforcement. Jason
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: asks about kids. Lori says if the police show up,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: give them the attorney's name. Lori says it's a bunch
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: of people starting trouble for no reason. Chad says it's
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: separate from the Tammy situation. 10.39 a.m. Jason wasn't sure
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: what Chad meant by the Tammy situation. Jason did not
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: know of anything related to Tammy's investigation at that point.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Chad says they are grasping at straws. I still feel
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Heather Daybell is behind this. She is an evil woman.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Jason doesn't recall having a conversation with Heather at that point.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Lori says Detective Hope is causing problems. Chad says it's
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: a simple situation, but we just can't tell you because
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: then you'd be involved. Yeah, it would be real simple.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Give the kids back. But you couldn't do that, could you?
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Because you killed them. 10.41 a.m. Jason felt at that
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: point that it possibly was a smaller situation. Chad brings
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: up Heather again and says he will text Jason the
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: name of their attorney, who is in Rexburg. Lori says
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Heather's in-laws, who is a detective, is bugging everyone. Jason
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: says the police caught him off guard. Chad says this
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: is a different issue. 10.44 a.m. Chad says that if
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: the police bother Ron and Phyllis, give them their attorney number.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Sean Bartholick was their lawyer. Lori says Detective Hope never
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: calls them to ask any questions, but calls everyone else
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and bothers them. Chad says it's like he's circling us
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: instead of talking to us directly. Yeah, he's building a case, stupid.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe if you weren't such a goddamn stunad, you'd know
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: what was going on here. Lori says she isn't sure
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: if the detective is being paid off. Lori says to
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: tell officers, we've been instructed by our family attorney not
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to talk to police. Jason had no concerns about talking
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to the police. Ron and Phyllis are Tammy's parents. 10.46 a.m.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Jason asks if Chad's kids have plans for Christmas. Jason
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and Chad discuss their plans. Chad asks Jason if he
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: heard about Tammy's autopsy. Chad said they did the autopsy
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: on one day last Wednesday, a week ago. I have
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: not heard a thing, Chad says. Jason said someone. told
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: him to check out the cemetery the previous week. Jason
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: asked Chad and Lori if they have anything planned for Christmas.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Chad says they are not going to Idaho. 10.50 a.m.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Jason seems to have lost the phone signal with Chad
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and Lori, and the call disconnects. That was the last
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: communication Chad and Jason ever had. Jason tried to call
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Chad again after the first of the year, but was unsuccessful. 10.51 a.m.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Jason never had any missed calls, texts, or emails from Chad.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Jason eventually learned where Tylee and JJ were found, and
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Wixom has no questions. Pryor will now conduct cross. 10.53 a.m.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Pryor begins by asking about the close relationships Jason had
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: with Chad. They both attended the same Latter-day Saint ward.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks if they held positions of authority. Jason doesn't recall.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Chad served as a counselor in the bishopric and in
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the elders quorum presidency. Chad began writing the books in
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: 2006 through 2015. At that time, Jason said he had
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: no concerns with Chad's books. 10.55 a.m. Chad continued to
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: write his books after moving to Rexburg, Jason says. Jason
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: says Chad and Lori had a normal marital relationship. Jason
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: didn't observe them as much in Idaho as he did
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in Utah. 10.56 a.m. In 2015, the Williams did not
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: go to Idaho, but Chad and his family traveled down
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to Utah for medical appointments, etc. In 2016... Jason got
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: the censure letter from Chad, so they visited Idaho three
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: to four times. The Daybells would also drive down to Utah.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: In 2017, similar patterns. In 2018, mission farewells, weddings, and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: other events brought the family together. 10.59 a.m. Jason says
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: he did not see Chad and his family as much
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: in 2019. Pryor asked Jason what Tammy's involvement was in
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: relation to the publishing company. He was in Springville, but
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: not in Idaho. 11.01 a.m. Pryor asked what police officers
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: were at the Springville Police Department when Jason went to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: speak with law enforcement on December 18, 2019. Pryor asked
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: if Rob Wood, the gentleman in the red tie, attended
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the interview. Jason doesn't know. 11.02 a.m. Jason says the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: only person who stood out in the group was the
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: person who said that they were with the FBI. Jason
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: thought that was unusual because you don't usually deal with
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the FBI. Pryor asked about the comment Lori made about
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: having a family attorney. Jason got the impression there was
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: a civil situation going on with the missing kids because
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: they gave the attorney's name. 11.04 a.m. Pryor asked Jason
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: if he knew how long the exhumation took. Jason says
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: he currently believes it took around 24 hours. He didn't
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: know back when the exhumation occurred. Jason says he doesn't
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: think anyone knows in the Douglas family knew about the exhumation. 11.07 a.m.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Pryor asked Jason about Chad's comment concerning the simple situation.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Jason doesn't know what Chad meant by that. Pryor asked
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: about the comment Chad made concerning an officer harassing Leah.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Leah is Chad's third child, who lived in Idaho at
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the time. 11.09 a.m. Pryor asked if there is a
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: familial relationship between Jason and Steve Schultz. Jason says they
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: are not related. They have known each other for about
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: 12 years, and Steve is a good man. 1110. Prior
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: asks about the visit Jason had with Chad at BYU-Idaho
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: in Rexburg. Prior asks if they went to the library.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Jason doesn't recall. Prior asks if Chad went to the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: library on a regular basis. Jason doesn't know his habits.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: 1111 a.m. Prior asks about the family prayer and Chad's emotions.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Jason has asked if he's read Chad's books. Jason says
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: he's read a few. His understanding, when he first read them,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: is they were stories he just made up. Chad later
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: told him the books are based on events that would occur. Oh, yeah.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: An absolute gem here, this Chad Daybell. Imagine some Yahoo
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: came up to you and told you this bullshit, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: then imagine continuing a relationship with him. What does that
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: say about you? 11.13 a.m. Pryor asks about visions and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: the LDS faith. I would say most people don't have
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: expressive visions. I think people have general inspiration in regard
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: to their lives and what they might do. They probably
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: might not express them as much, Jason says. 11.16 a.m.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Pryor has nothing further. Wixom is now back up for
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the redirect. 11.17 a.m. Wixom asked Jason if he's concerned
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: that he wasn't informed about Tammy's exhumation. Jason says he
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: would have liked to know, but is not concerned he wasn't.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Wixom asked Jason how many law enforcement contacts he had
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: regarding Chad. Jason says 20-ish, maybe more. He doesn't know
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the exact number. 11.19 a.m. Wixom asks if any law
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: enforcement ever tried to influence what he should say. Jason
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: says no. He says their primary concern was finding the children.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Jason says he never saw any desire from Chad and
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Lori to find the kids. Jason gave the phone number
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: of the attorney to law enforcement. 11.21 a.m. Wixom asks
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Jason if he ever had any concerns about Chad's book
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: publishing company, Jason says he was worried about one particular
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: author that Chad pushed. He does not say the author's name. 11.23 a.m.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Wixom asks if Tylee and JJ being buried in Chad's
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: backyard was a simple situation. Jason says that is far
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: from a simple situation. Wixom has nothing further. Pryor will
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: now recross. 11.24 a.m. Pryor asks about the recording and
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Chad saying simple situation. Pryor suggests it was a custody matter.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and that it may have been why Chad said that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: That he thought it was a custody matter because they
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: had a family law attorney. Wixom objects. Boyce sustains. Pryor
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: has nothing further. 11.25 a.m. Samantha Gwilliam, Tammy's sister, is
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the next witness. Blake will be questioning her. 11.27 a.m.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Samantha has visited Tammy's house. Blake moves to admit to exhibits. 11.29 a.m.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: The first exhibit shows a photo of Of Chad's property,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Blake asks if Tammy had a pet cemetery. Samantha says
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: she did and explains two posts in the middle of
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: the picture. To the right is the fire pit and
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: the barn is in the back of the photo. We
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: see another closer image of the fire pit and pet cemetery. 11.31 a.m.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Blake asks if it was common for Tammy to have
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: a pet cemetery. Samantha says absolutely. They have had pets
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: in their family for years and when they pass away,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: they would be buried on the property. Tammy continued to
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: have pets into her adult life. 11.34 a.m. Samantha remembers
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: when Chad and Tammy started dating. Samantha liked Chad. He
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: was a good husband and father. Chad and Jason were close.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: They all lived in the same neighborhood and at one
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: time across the street from each other. 11.35 a.m. Tammy
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: and Chad have five kids, and they have grandkids. Samantha
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: says Tammy did not want to move to Idaho at
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the beginning. Before moving to Idaho, she worked at Springville
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: High School and at an elementary school before. As Samantha testifies,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: their brother wipes tears from his eyes. 11.36 a.m. Chad
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: told Samantha that he had a vision that they should
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: move to Idaho. Samantha thought about it because she didn't
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: want to be separated from her sister. Samantha read an
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: email Chad sent saying she had evil spirits keeping her
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: from moving to Idaho and that she should be up there.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: It made me very unhappy. 11.37 AM As part of
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Chad's employment, after he and Tammy got married, he was
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: involved in digging graves. He became the sexton. Blake asked
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Samantha how she found out Tammy had died. I received
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: a phone call from Chad that morning, Samantha says, holding
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: back tears. Chad told Samantha that Tammy was really sick,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: had a coughing fit, threw up, and then fell out
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: of bed. This didn't make sense to Samantha. 11.38 a.m.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Samantha had seen Tammy two weeks earlier and she was
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: just fine. They had a small Facebook group where they
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: would check in with each other and make sure that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: they were healthy. Samantha says during that visit, Tammy was
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: really happy and they did a mini talent show for
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: their parents. Tammy did her clogging and Samantha did some
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: stage combat because she was teaching theater classes. Tammy was
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: not short of breath or having any medical issues. 11.40 a.m.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Tammy was 49, the same age that I am right now,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Samantha says. Tammy wanted her sister to apply for a
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: theater teaching job in Idaho so they could be near
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: each other. They wanted to live near each other. It
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: was our joke that we would be old ladies together
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: living side by side, Samantha says through tears. 11.42 a.m.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Samantha never saw Tammy have any adverse reaction to homeopathic medicines.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Tammy would share her health challenges with Samantha, and Samantha
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: says Tammy took care of her health. It was something
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: that she was very focused on. The visit in October
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: of 2019 was last minute. Tammy texted Samantha and asked
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: if she would be around that weekend. 11.43 a.m. Tammy
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: traveled alone. That was not normal for Tammy. She didn't
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: like to drive the long distance by herself, so normally
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: someone came with her. Chad was usually with her, and
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: he had family still living in Springville. There was nothing
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: about her health that would prevent her from driving long distances.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Tammy never gave any indication that Chad was having an affair.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: During an event in June of 2019, Tammy and Chad
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: stayed at Samantha's home. Chad seemed like he didn't want
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: to talk and didn't want to be there, which was
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: unusual for him. In July, Tammy showed up at Samantha's
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: house about 10.30 p.m., two days before Samantha's birthday with
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: a present. It was odd because Tammy usually went to
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: bed early and Chad stayed in the van the entire
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: time Tammy was in the house. Samantha was not aware
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: of any falling out. 11.47 a.m. Samantha saw Tammy in April, June, July,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: and October of 2019. Tammy never complained of any health
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: issues other than her wrist hurting. She seemed fine and healthy.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Samantha asked Chad in a phone call after Tammy died
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: if he was going to do an autopsy. He said no.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And the coroner told him she looked peaceful and it
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: looked like natural causes. Chad also said it would cost
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: him $ 1, 500 and it would hold things up. They wanted
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: to get the funeral done quickly. 11.49 a.m. Tammy was
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: buried in Springville. And that surprised Samantha because Chad and
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: her kids lived in Rexburg. Samantha asked Chad why they
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: were burying her in Springville. Chad said we are covered
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: with snow and ice most of the year and you
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: will take good care of her. Chad requested that his
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: name not be on Tammy's headstone. I found that odd
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: for somebody that was heavily into family history to not
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: do so. To leave that off would mean someone further
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: down the line would not connect him to her. And
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: just another little tell, right? There's been so many of
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: them throughout this whole thing. that I have no idea
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: how anyone can not see that Chad Daybell is guilty. 11.50 a.m.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Samantha hosted a dinner for Chad and his kids before
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: their mom's viewing. They never showed up. Chad told Samantha
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: he had more information about Tammy's passing, so he could
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: have comfort about her death. They were supposed to talk
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: after the funeral, but Chad made himself unavailable. 11.52 a.m.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: A month after Tammy died, Jason and Samantha reached out
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: to Chad. They learned his new wife's name was Lori Ryan.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: That's what Chad said. Chad said Lori's previous husband had
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: died of a heart attack and that's why they connected.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: He told me that they had both lost a spouse
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: and that's why they met up, Samantha says. 11.53 a.m.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Chad got married two weeks after Samantha was buried. Samantha
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: learned about the other names associated with Lori Vallow, J.J. Vallow,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and Tylee Ryan. Samantha called Chad and asked, please tell
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: me about this woman. that you've replaced my sister with.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Samantha asked about the name difference, Ryan versus Vallow. Chad
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: said Lori had a complicated past and wanted to move on.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Pryor asked the judge for context of when the call
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: took place, and Samantha quickly says it took place December 13th.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Chad told Samantha that Tammy visited her at the cemetery
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: and told him he needed to move on. Samantha replied,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: when most women say that, They mean two years, not
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: two weeks after they died. Blake has no further questions.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Boy suggests we have a lunch break until 1. Be
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: back then. All right, we're going to break here as well.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we'll pick up where we
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: left off and finish out the day's testimony. All of
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome back
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: to the program. This episode, we're picking up where we
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: left off at the Chad Daybell trial. And to do that,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: once again, we're using East Idaho News. And the author
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: of this article is Nate Eaton. 103 p.m. We are
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: back in the courtroom and the jurors are being brought in.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: 104 p.m. Pryor begins cross-examination of Samantha Gwilliam. He asks
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: if she remembers how many times she's been interviewed as
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: part of this investigation. She doesn't know the exact amount.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just a phone call or text asking questions.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: She says a handful of in-person interviews. 1.06 p.m. Pryor
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: asks about a meeting with law enforcement on June 4,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: 2020 at her home. Officers Hermosillo and Ball were there.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Samantha says Rob Wood was also there. Jason William was
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: also there. 1.09 p.m. Blake asks to approach. Attorneys leave
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the courtroom to meet with Boyce. 1.11 p.m. Attorneys are
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: back in the courtroom. Pryor references a meeting with law
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: enforcement in December of 2020. Samantha stood outside the room.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: and was not present for what happened. Prior asks about
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: animals in the pet cemetery. Samantha does not know all
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: of the animals in the pet cemetery. 1.12 p.m. Prior
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: asks if, while in Springville, it was Tammy's primary responsibility
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: to care for the pet cemetery. Samantha isn't sure. She
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: says some of the kids may have helped. Samantha doesn't
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: know about other animals that may have been buried in
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: the cemetery. 1.13 p.m. Tammy was the primary business manager
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: of the publishing company. Samantha says. Chad wrote the books
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: and Tammy did everything else. Prior asks if Tammy would
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: go to the doctor without hesitation if there was an issue.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Samantha says yes. And remember, that's one of Chad Daybell's
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: big things. Oh, she didn't want to go to the doctor.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: She refused when she wasn't feeling well, blah, blah, blah.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: But the reality is something completely different according to all
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the testimony that we've heard. 1.14 p.m. Prior asks if
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Tammy did a good job raising her five kids. Samantha
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: says she was a wonderful mother. Pryor asks if the
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Daybell children are still practicing members of the LDS faith.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Samantha believes that they are, but she has not had
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: contact with some of them. 1.15 p.m. Samantha says Tammy
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: was taking something for her wrist pain and something for
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: her depression. Pryor brings up essential oils and homeopathic medicines.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Samantha says Tammy's habit from a young age was to
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: go to bed early. 9 p.m. Was considered late for her. 1.16 p.m.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks what vehicle Tammy drove when she visited Samantha.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Samantha doesn't recall what car she drove. 1.17 p.m. Pryor
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: shows the photo of Chad's property on the screen. He
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: points out the tree and references a shadow on the ground.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Pryor asks Samantha to point out the pet cemetery with
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: a laser pointer. Pryor asks her to point out the
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: house and the add-on. Samantha says the add-on was called
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: the Cozy Cone. and there were stairs leading up to
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: a room with musical instruments. 1.20 p.m. Samantha describes how
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: to get up to the cozy cone. Samantha says the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: structure in the garage and the home are all connected
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: to each other. Pryor shows another photo and asks Samantha
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: to point out where the pet cemetery is. There used
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to be a raspberry patch in the area. 1.22 p.m.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Pryor has no further questions. Blake will now redirect. 1.24 p.m.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Blake asks Samantha why she hasn't been in contact with
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Chad's kids. Samantha has attempted to contact the children, but
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: has been unsuccessful. Blake asks if at some point Samantha
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: knew of something else was buried in Chad's backyard. Samantha
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: says yes and starts to cry before saying to children. 1.26 p.m.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Blake is nothing further. State will now recall FBI tactical
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: specialist Nicole Heideman to the stand. She previously testified on
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: April 15th 1.28 p.m. Blake asked for a sidebar. Tammy
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: and Samantha's brother Ben has his head down and he's crying.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Their other brother Michael has his hand on Ben's back. 1.30 p.m.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Several jurors are watching Samantha with her brothers sitting on
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: the road directly behind the prosecutors. Oh, I'm sure they are.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Believe me, all of this is going to come into
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: a play when they're rendering their decision, when they're figuring
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: out Chad Daybell's future after he's convicted, because I have
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: no doubt that that's where we're going. Well, these jurors
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: are going to have to decide if he gets the
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: death penalty or if he's going to spend the rest
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: of his miserable ass life behind bars. And if you
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: don't think all of this comes into play, you're fooling yourself. 1.32 p.m.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Heidemann was asked to look for evidence of wedding planning
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: between Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow. Blake has no an
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: exhibit to admit. 1.35 p.m. The first slide of the
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: exhibit appears on the screen. It says evidence of wedding planning.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: The second slide says two documents were discovered during the
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: lore for style at iCloud.com account. They were labeled seven
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: archangels and presiding council of archangels. 1.37 p.m. The names
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Raphael and James appeared in relation to Chad. A Tuesday
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: appeared to be significant involving their wedding along with Malachite.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: The presiding council of archangels and names including Methuselah, Raphael, Noah, etc., Lily,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: and Elena are also listed on the page. 1.39pm. Blake
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: asked about searches for Malachite. Chad's earliest search for Malachite
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: was in March of 2019 and in May of 2019.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Chad and Lori both appeared to be searching for it.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Tammy and Charles were both still alive in May of 2019. Yeah,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: that's because a conspiracy was being hatched at that point.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: and then was put into effect when we see everybody
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: start getting killed. 1.40pm. An example of Malachite is shown
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: on the screen. There was an attempted but failed wedding
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: ring purchase on October 14th, 2019. Lori purchased two glow-in-the-dark
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Malachite rings from Etsy with a shipping address in Chandler.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: The manufacturer was unable to fulfill the order on August 25th, 2019.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Lori tried to purchase two custom titanium rings with Malachite inlay.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: It was supposed to be shipped to Rexburg apartment, but
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the credit card was declined. 1.43 p.m. On October 2nd, 2019,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Lori brought two rings, one for women and one that
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: was unisex. Blake shows an image of one of the
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: rings on the screen. A wedding band size 11 and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: a half was also purchased on October 2nd, 2019 through Amazon.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: This ring was returned and repurchased as a size 11.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: The original ring was purchased and returned when Tammy was
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: still alive. 1.46 p.m. The size 11 ring was returned
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: and repurchased as a size 10. Heidemann says the ring
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: appears to be the same one Chad wore in wedding photos.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: We see a picture of Chad and Lori holding hands
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: on their wedding day, showing the Malachite rings. 1.47 p.m.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Heidemann found a text message from Chad to one of
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Lori's phones on July 13, 2019, two days after Charles died.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: The message talks about the upcoming graduation of Chad's kids.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: but I feel she will be gone by then. The
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: graduation was on July 23rd. Chad said he would still
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: have to deal with the hoopla because family will be
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: in town. I might not be able to be with
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: you until that is over, Chad wrote. 1.49pm. We now
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: see a chart showing texts between Chad and Lori regarding
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Kawhi and the plan. These texts happened on July 22nd, 2019.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Chad says he's going to see a movie with his son.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Lori tells him that he will love it. Chad says,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: not as much as I love you. They go back
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: and forth about scenery in the movie Looking Like Hawaii
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: and how one day they will be there. 1.51 p.m.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: On October 30th, 2019, Lori filled out a form requesting
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: a wedding on a Kauai beach on Tuesday, November 5th, 2019.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Chad and Lori were married that day with green malachite
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: wedding rings. 1.52 p.m. Heidemann was asked to look at
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: attendance records For when Chad and Lori attended the temple together,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Blake moves to admit and exhibit. 1.57 p.m. We see
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: a timeline on the screen of Chad and Lori visiting
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: the temple together prior to their marriage. They went three
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: times before Charles died. Chad and Lori met on 10-20-18.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: They went to the Gilbert Temple on 11-16-18, Idaho Falls
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Temple on 4-3-19, and Houston Temple on 4-27-19. 1.59 p.m.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Heidemann explains those who visit the temple scan cards to enter,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: and Heidemann reviewed the records. Cards belonging to Chad and
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Lori were scanned within seconds of each other at the temples.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: 2 p.m. Heidemann talks about the James and Elena story.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: That story, James and Elena, were being sealed to each
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: other in the temple. Chad and Lori had other visits
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: to the temple before they got married to each other. 2.03 p.m.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: The James and Elena story was found in multiple places.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: in different iCloud accounts. 2.05 p.m. James and Raphael were
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: aliases for Chad. Elena and Lily were aliases for Lori.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Lori referred to Chad as Bubby. She also referred to
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Chad and Alex as Bub. 2.08 p.m. Blake moves to
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: admit an exhibit of the story. Heidemann was looking to
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: confirm that events in the story happened in real life. 2.10 p.m.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: The first slide shows Chad and Lori's first meeting in
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: October 26, 2018. Heidemann compares what was written in the
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: novel versus what happened in real life. 2.14 p.m. Part
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: of the novel talks about James meeting his love at
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: a conference, and it was unexpected. There was a mention
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: of Elena helping Chad sell his books. The events matched
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: up with Chad and Lori's lives. We see a photo
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: of Chad surrounded by Lori, Gib, Zulema, and another woman
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: at the Preparing a People conference. 2.16 p.m. In the
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: James and Eleanor story, James claimed to have written a
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: novel called The Renewed Earth. Chad wrote a novel called
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: The Renewed Earth. One of the lines says James has
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: been blessed with great knowledge, but 99% of the people
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: he meets don't understand. Well, that's because you're a moron.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: That's why nobody understands. You're not blessed with anything besides stupidity. 2.18pm.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: The novel talks about their spectacular mission and the light
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: and the dark. James and Eleanor also shared unparalleled love.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: In a previous lifetime, Chad and Lori believed they were
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: married in a previous lifetime. 2.20 p.m. James and Elena
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: had been married before and were eternal companions. Chad and
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Lori believed the same thing. In the book, When James
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: and Elena First Met, James made an awkward attempt, but
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: it was way too brief because their friends were bringing
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: in more boxes. Chad and Lori met as Chad was
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: setting up to sell books. 2.22 p.m. In the novel,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: James went home and googled anything he could about Elena.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Google records show in real life Chad was searching for
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Lori Vallow. Elena and James knew the Lord had brought
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: them together for a crucial mission. Chad and Lori felt
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: that they had a crucial meaning. The bond between them
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: was intense. Two best friends had reunited, and their prior
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: love was reunited in a loving, wonderful, heavenly way. 2.25 p.m.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: James knew they had been married before and served in
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: an important position within the church. Elena had been his companion.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: In Jerusalem, James and Elena enjoyed physical intimacy. They were
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: fortunate enough that they could be alone morning, noon, and
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: night and seize every chance to passionately express their love. 2.27 p.m.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: We're taking an afternoon break, back in 15 to 20. 2.52 p.m.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: We're back from break. Blake asks Heidemann to read from
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: another portion of the book, They were both aroused but
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: knew there were limitations to what could occur that night.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: But they kissed for about an hour. They knew that
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: they would see each other again in the morning, but
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: the separation wouldn't last too long. 2.53 p.m. He knew
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: he was in the presence of an exalted goddess who
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: returned to Earth to perform a special mission. Heidemann reads
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: from the book, she was among the greatest women on Earth. 3.01 p.m.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Heidemann reads other parts of the book that are similar
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: to the real events Lori and Chad were experiencing. The
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: book mentions Shania Twain's song Forever and for Always as
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: the two lovers became immersed with each other. 3.03 p.m.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: The book mentions that Elena traveled to Rexburg in April.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: There was a flight Lori took from Mesa, Arizona to
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Idaho Falls on April 2nd. 3.05 p.m. The Savior told
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: James there was no reason to wait to be sealed.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Jesus sealed James and Elena together, and it was as
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: if their eternal bond was revealed. True love immediately blossomed,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: and their physical desire for each other was awakened. Chad
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and Lori went to the temple to be sealed shortly
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: after they met. 3.07 p.m. James placed his lips on her,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: and sparks flew between them. Blake asked to approach. 3.09 p.m.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Boyce says a few administrative things need to be taken
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: up this afternoon. We're done for the day. All right, folks. Well,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: there you have it. Day number 21 of the Chad
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Daybell trial. And it's just more of the same. And
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: it seems like every time we have a new witness
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: take the stand, the hole just gets deeper and deeper
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: for Chad Daybell. All of the information that goes with
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.