Latest / The SME Stream / Former All Blacks manager Darren Shand: 'It wasn’t something that I had put on my life path'

Transcript

Former All Blacks manager Darren Shand: 'It wasn’t something that I had put on my life path' · The SME Stream

0:02
Speaker 1: Madam. Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald's Business editor
0:08
Speaker 1: at Large and welcome to this episode of Money Talks.
0:13
Speaker 1: This is a podcast about money, but we're not going
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Speaker 1: to tell you how to get rich, and we're not
0:18
Speaker 1: going to try and pick the next interest rate move.
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Speaker 1: In this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders
0:24
Speaker 1: about how money has shaped their lives and what they've
0:27
Speaker 1: learned over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by
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Speaker 1: the former manager of the All Blacks and now founder
0:34
Speaker 1: of Winning Teams, Darren Shanned. Hi, Darren, morning. Look, thanks
0:38
Speaker 1: for being here. Very high profile role with the All
0:41
Speaker 1: Blacks obviously, and that's how people know you. So I'm interested.
0:44
Speaker 1: It's been how long since you stepped away?
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Speaker 2: I finished after the World Cup last year. Yeah, so
0:50
Speaker 2: I've had a bit of time with the new group
0:52
Speaker 2: just to pass on as much as I could. Yeah. Yeah, so,
0:56
Speaker 2: you know, I guess I believe Black so I really
0:58
Speaker 2: wanted them to do well too. You know, I think
1:00
Speaker 2: it's a you always. I think you talk a lot
1:03
Speaker 2: in the All Blacks about leaving the place and in
1:05
Speaker 2: good shape and leaving the Jersey in a good place.
1:07
Speaker 2: So a nice transition a nice transition and actually just
1:11
Speaker 2: loving being a fan of white thing to then do
1:13
Speaker 2: their go out their work now in a.
1:14
Speaker 1: Good season so far, and so you've you're effectively transitioning
1:19
Speaker 1: some of the skills that you brought to managing the
1:21
Speaker 1: All Blacks into sort of a business world. Is that
1:24
Speaker 1: is that how you look at what you're doing.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think when I sat down at the
1:29
Speaker 2: end of last year and just reflected on who I
1:32
Speaker 2: am now, there was a whole I guess, a whole
1:35
Speaker 2: lot of principles and philosophies I've learned through that time there,
1:38
Speaker 2: And so how can I turn that into something else?
1:41
Speaker 2: And we're pretty quickly settled on the fact that I
1:44
Speaker 2: just love being like a team player, that there was
1:46
Speaker 2: real strength and team and when you could bring a
1:49
Speaker 2: lot of good people together, combine them build a great environment,
1:54
Speaker 2: you could achieve great things, you know, and even an
1:56
Speaker 2: ordinary person can do quite extraordinary things, you know, when
1:59
Speaker 2: you've got a team. So, yeah, with the help of
2:01
Speaker 2: a few people, and I've always liked to put my
2:03
Speaker 2: hand up for help, and yeah, so I found some
2:06
Speaker 2: really good people who had worked in that space, and
2:09
Speaker 2: we sort of just build an idea really around how
2:13
Speaker 2: how can we help both sports and business build winning teams,
2:16
Speaker 2: you know, and build teams that support teams. Often with
2:19
Speaker 2: the or Blacks, you see the team on the field,
2:20
Speaker 2: but you don't see the team behind the team and
2:22
Speaker 2: what role they play. So that was kind of the
2:24
Speaker 2: general principle. And I look at businesses, most of them
2:27
Speaker 2: the teams a board as a team, an executive team
2:30
Speaker 2: as a team, and so how do they are they
2:33
Speaker 2: really performing at a high level? And what makes a
2:35
Speaker 2: great team?
2:35
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, is it a straight does it
2:39
Speaker 1: translate quite cleanly? I guess I'm trying to find the
2:42
Speaker 1: right word. But you know that getting in that high
2:44
Speaker 1: performance zone for sports and you know you've got to
2:47
Speaker 1: switch on at the right moment and you've got to
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Speaker 1: relax at the right moment, all that sort of stuff.
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Speaker 1: Do you find that that translates quite well into the
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Speaker 1: world of business.
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Speaker 2: I think it does, and that I think in business
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Speaker 2: there's probably a way, has been a way of doing things,
3:01
Speaker 2: and so now that sport has become a business, we've
3:04
Speaker 2: learned it to do it a different way. And so again,
3:07
Speaker 2: if you come with a growth mindset versus a fixed
3:10
Speaker 2: mindset and think well, how can we how can we
3:12
Speaker 2: just look at this through a different lens, which is
3:15
Speaker 2: what we had to do. Where were high performance as
3:17
Speaker 2: such small margins and that you've got to adapt and
3:19
Speaker 2: learn really fast. You have a bit more time in business,
3:22
Speaker 2: so actually you've got space, and I guess the big
3:26
Speaker 2: thing I've learned was actually to get missuses to actually
3:29
Speaker 2: they don't actually look at performance in that sense what
3:31
Speaker 2: is actually high performance? They tend to be more metric based.
3:35
Speaker 2: And often I tell the story quite often people would say,
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Speaker 2: you guys are judged by win. Last I said, well,
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Speaker 2: that's what the outside will see, but that's not what
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Speaker 2: we're driven by. And so we're not an outcome yes
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Speaker 2: to the public, we're an outcome based to organization. That's
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Speaker 2: what high performance sport is often measured by. But internally
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Speaker 2: we were driven by a whole lot of other things
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Speaker 2: that actually allowed us to achieve those outcomes. You know,
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Speaker 2: and often I think, you know, if a business is
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Speaker 2: driven by a profit, well but what does that all mean?
4:02
Speaker 2: You know?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was looking at at an individual level
4:07
Speaker 1: kind of like as you said, like businesses will often
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Speaker 1: have a metric which they're sharing with the team or
4:12
Speaker 1: an algorithm, they're trying to beat certain targets. But are
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Speaker 1: you sort of suggesting that we probably should do a
4:18
Speaker 1: little bit more work inside our heads. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I think what I learned the most was that first
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Speaker 2: you got to have yourself sorted. And what I see
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Speaker 2: a lot in business is this what i'd call sort
4:30
Speaker 2: of very vertically oriented organizations where position and power mean everything.
4:37
Speaker 2: And what I've found in sport is it we probably
4:40
Speaker 2: tended to operate more at a horizontal level, where we
4:43
Speaker 2: collaborated a lot more to order to move up the
4:46
Speaker 2: vertical access and in the end, like position became irrelevant
4:50
Speaker 2: because it was actually more about role and each person.
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Speaker 2: If you take the sport analogy, when you go into
4:55
Speaker 2: a field in a rugby game, everyone gets a jersey
4:57
Speaker 2: has a number on it that just defines a and
5:00
Speaker 2: so often I feel people are so in a hurry
5:04
Speaker 2: to get further up the ladder. Yeah, they actually forget
5:06
Speaker 2: about improving themselves. And I think that's what we did
5:09
Speaker 2: in sport, was if we can get you the best
5:11
Speaker 2: we can be, the team will win and you will win,
5:13
Speaker 2: like it'll be a duel due outcome. So those are
5:18
Speaker 2: some of the ideas I've been sharing and trying to. Yeah,
5:20
Speaker 2: there's certainly questions that come hard at you from businesses around,
5:22
Speaker 2: but that's easy in sport. You know, we couldn't do
5:24
Speaker 2: that in business. But I've found lots of ways to
5:28
Speaker 2: sort of talk around those stories and find different, different options,
5:31
Speaker 2: different wads of thinking.
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Speaker 1: All right, that's great. I'd like to come back to
5:34
Speaker 1: some of those things as we chat. But you know,
5:37
Speaker 1: with money talks, we always like to go back and
5:39
Speaker 1: get a bit of your backstory and how you ended
5:42
Speaker 1: up on this all Blacks journey and frame it with
5:46
Speaker 1: you know, some memories of money. So I guess first
5:50
Speaker 1: thing I would ask is, you know, do you have
5:52
Speaker 1: an earlier, earliest memory of money, the first time you
5:55
Speaker 1: might have held money in your hand.
5:57
Speaker 2: Probably Monopoly, Yeah, with the family family holidays and that
6:02
Speaker 2: was always a big big piece of the beach holiday
6:05
Speaker 2: in the caravan and Monopoly and competer to the games.
6:09
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, super competitive, yeah, very very much so. And
6:13
Speaker 2: probably we lived. I grew up in Hawk's Bay and
6:16
Speaker 2: we lived just on the outskirts of Hastings and makes
6:19
Speaker 2: all the orchards, and so pretty early on I was
6:21
Speaker 2: next door in the orchard getting paid ten cents for
6:26
Speaker 2: every used to make wooden boxes to put the fruit
6:29
Speaker 2: and and so that was my first job putting those
6:32
Speaker 2: boxes give and thinking off, I get one hundred done today,
6:35
Speaker 2: you know ten bucks?
6:37
Speaker 1: Yah? Yeah, yeah, hard work, hard.
6:39
Speaker 2: Work, but yeah, that was good.
6:40
Speaker 1: It was that sort of after school or just the season.
6:43
Speaker 2: Right school and school holidays and things like that. Could
6:45
Speaker 2: just jump over the fence and going able to work there.
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Speaker 1: And with the things that things that you were saving
6:51
Speaker 1: for or were you spending the money down the dairy.
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Speaker 2: Or I was really like I was a sports jock,
6:56
Speaker 2: you know, so it was always about having the best
6:58
Speaker 2: sports here, and I was probably I always had this
7:01
Speaker 2: aspiration to be the best I could. So I always
7:04
Speaker 2: wanted the best stuff because I felt if I if
7:06
Speaker 2: I looked good, I felt good that I'd play good. Yeah,
7:09
Speaker 2: and so you know, it was always like I need
7:10
Speaker 2: the latest cricket pads or you know, I need these
7:13
Speaker 2: boots for rugby or for hospital.
7:15
Speaker 1: With the sports because it wasn't always just you know
7:18
Speaker 1: that rugby wasn't necessarily play rugby.
7:20
Speaker 2: Long stopped when I was about thirteen, and I was
7:23
Speaker 2: doing pretty well at hockey as well, so I kind
7:25
Speaker 2: of that became the winter thing, and cricket was a
7:28
Speaker 2: big it was a big summer thing. So yeah, I
7:32
Speaker 2: did well at school and reached some good levels that
7:34
Speaker 2: I was pretty happy with, but as soon as got
7:36
Speaker 2: to university I just pretty much dropped them. You know.
7:39
Speaker 2: I just had a bad experience at Uni with my hockey.
7:42
Speaker 2: I had some really high aspirations with hockey to go
7:45
Speaker 2: sort of all the way, and had a bad coaching experience. Really, yeah,
7:51
Speaker 2: I just lost the love of it, you know. Yeah,
7:52
Speaker 2: that's quickly discovered skiing when I was in Queenstown. Well
7:58
Speaker 2: that looks a little bit better for the winter, so
8:00
Speaker 2: kind of quickly sort of pivoted into really found a
8:03
Speaker 2: love for the outdoors. And then then I moved to
8:06
Speaker 2: Queenstown as soon as I finished my degree really because
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Speaker 2: I just wanted to be just had that passion for
8:10
Speaker 2: doing outdoor adventures.
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Speaker 1: And but right through school it was you actually did
8:15
Speaker 1: our outdoor education or physical education as a as a
8:18
Speaker 1: as a degree, is that right? Yeah? Yeah, So through
8:21
Speaker 1: school were those that sort of it was a bit
8:23
Speaker 1: of science and that and real.
8:24
Speaker 2: Maxture teaching I think was probably the both parents were teachers,
8:28
Speaker 2: so I remember when I was an intermediate, a guy
8:32
Speaker 2: came into our school. He was the brother of one
8:34
Speaker 2: of my teachers, and he was a phyzed teacher. And
8:38
Speaker 2: this guy had like every pair of shoes for a resport.
8:41
Speaker 2: And I was like wow, you know and and I yeah,
8:44
Speaker 2: pretty much from that day and I said to him
8:46
Speaker 2: that I'm going to Dunedin and I'm going to study
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Speaker 2: sports and physical education and never considered anything else.
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Speaker 1: Really.
8:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got down there. In my first semester, we
8:55
Speaker 2: had to do some teaching like a teaching paper, and
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Speaker 2: I got sent to Ago Girls High School and I
9:01
Speaker 2: got this had my lesson plan.
9:03
Speaker 1: Or sort of.
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Speaker 2: I could not get the girls out of the class. Yeah,
9:06
Speaker 2: I couldn't get to be able to changing room. So
9:09
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I'm not for teaching. So that's
9:11
Speaker 2: kind of when the outdoor, the recreation side, a bit
9:13
Speaker 2: of the sports science. I quite enjoyed the whole you know,
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Speaker 2: how the athletes get better and so that's the thing
9:19
Speaker 2: with Vizita. It was quite a diverse range of topic
9:21
Speaker 2: areas in.
9:22
Speaker 1: A lot of different directions, but you ended up, if
9:25
Speaker 1: I read it right, I ended up with aj Hackett
9:28
Speaker 1: and the bungee jumping operation, Is that right? Yeah?
9:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I met aj early on when he first came
9:34
Speaker 2: to Queenslander set the bungee up.
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Speaker 1: So how nearly is this just just like right?
9:39
Speaker 2: Literally, I don't remember. I think around nineteen eighty seventy
9:42
Speaker 2: jumped from the Eiffel Tower and that kind of launched
9:44
Speaker 2: the business.
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Speaker 1: And then he was in the birth of bungee jumping.
9:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he sort of started at the car Oile
9:48
Speaker 2: Bridge and that stage I was a rafting guy, so
9:51
Speaker 2: we were going under it every day and I actually
9:53
Speaker 2: took him rafting one day and that's how I got
9:55
Speaker 2: to meet him. And he just said to me, if
9:57
Speaker 2: you want to come work for me, letting me know.
10:00
Speaker 2: And so two or three year later, as I just
10:01
Speaker 2: rang them and started off just driving the bus out
10:03
Speaker 2: to the bridge, who worked on the bridge, and he
10:06
Speaker 2: probably gave me. He was the first person I think
10:09
Speaker 2: that really believed that I could do more than just
10:11
Speaker 2: be a you know, that I could lead and manage
10:13
Speaker 2: people and stuff, and so he sort of gave me
10:15
Speaker 2: the chance. The other thing I really learned from him
10:17
Speaker 2: was the notion of risk and business, and he was
10:21
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, really entrepreneurial.
10:23
Speaker 1: Took a massive risk, big vision, really big vision.
10:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, the funny thing was that bungee
10:30
Speaker 2: was a personal challenge for people, and you'd stand there
10:32
Speaker 2: in that moment and think life's over. That was incredibly
10:35
Speaker 2: safe and so while people saw it as a risk,
10:39
Speaker 2: the actual risk of the process was super low, you know,
10:42
Speaker 2: far less risky than going rafting, for example. And the
10:46
Speaker 2: other thing I learned was when he allowed me to
10:48
Speaker 2: lead and manage, you develop a different mindset around the
10:52
Speaker 2: risk that he's carrying as a business owner versus being
10:55
Speaker 2: a work and go, come on, mate, you've got to
10:56
Speaker 2: pay me more. You know, I'm doing a great job
10:57
Speaker 2: here and you don't understand all that those annex and
11:01
Speaker 2: you know he was trying to go global and go quickly,
11:04
Speaker 2: and so it was. It was very very interesting. And
11:07
Speaker 2: the final lesson I got from him, which I love,
11:09
Speaker 2: was whenever he came back, because the company went international
11:12
Speaker 2: very fast, he spent a lot of time if sure,
11:14
Speaker 2: and when he came back, he had always the first
11:16
Speaker 2: thing you'd do was organize a party, because he just
11:18
Speaker 2: wanted people to loosen up and tell him everything that
11:20
Speaker 2: was happening. Then the next day we would have a
11:22
Speaker 2: debrisch and get down to business where their other boss
11:25
Speaker 2: was like he would have a meeting first, anybody have
11:27
Speaker 2: a party after. So it was it was very interesting,
11:29
Speaker 2: but an awesome human being.
11:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I mean that that that risk thing is
11:33
Speaker 1: interesting because that is a big part of you know,
11:37
Speaker 1: when I talk to successful people often it's it's that
11:39
Speaker 1: ability to assess risk. Well. I mean people you know,
11:44
Speaker 1: as you say, there's different different kinds of risk and
11:46
Speaker 1: different levels of risk, and you know often we're kind of,
11:51
Speaker 1: you know, a motive about you know, how risky something is.
11:55
Speaker 1: I think he was.
11:56
Speaker 2: It was almost like they were on a wave and
11:58
Speaker 2: they just kept surfing it for a while. And the
12:00
Speaker 2: good thing was the process and this and the structures
12:04
Speaker 2: around the actual operation were so sound, you know, and
12:07
Speaker 2: that he had done all that work well before he
12:10
Speaker 2: launched it. So but it never removed the challenge that
12:14
Speaker 2: everyone faced when they took the step out to the edge,
12:17
Speaker 2: which was the really nice thing about it. So how
12:19
Speaker 2: long we were I had about five years with them,
12:22
Speaker 2: and I kind of got to the point of my
12:24
Speaker 2: crew just about ten thirty and I was like, what next,
12:28
Speaker 2: you know, I thought about doing an NBA actually went
12:32
Speaker 2: through the process of you have to sit an entrance
12:35
Speaker 2: thingsam so.
12:36
Speaker 1: I inspired by doing more of business stuff.
12:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just felt I had more and I sort
12:42
Speaker 2: of felt there was a ceiling in Queenstown at that stage.
12:45
Speaker 2: Tourism was the late eadies, early noise was probably the
12:47
Speaker 2: first sort of big food to change.
12:49
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and I just felt.
12:52
Speaker 2: I could do more, and I sort of felt sport
12:54
Speaker 2: really the calling of sports somehow, and so an opportunity
12:58
Speaker 2: just popped up in the right with A. J. Hackett
13:01
Speaker 2: was sales and marketing role, and so a rugby role
13:03
Speaker 2: popped up in sort of sponsorship in the commercial side
13:06
Speaker 2: with Canterbury Rugby. So you just went up and had
13:09
Speaker 2: an interview and I was pretty fortunate that.
13:11
Speaker 1: That must have been. Was that pretty super rugby?
13:15
Speaker 2: No, it was just just as it was ninety eight, Yeah,
13:18
Speaker 2: just early days of professionals, so you still had a
13:21
Speaker 2: lot of something was the ninety six was year one, Yeah,
13:23
Speaker 2: so you had that whole transition where guys had sort
13:25
Speaker 2: of started the amateur and now they were being paid. Yeah,
13:28
Speaker 2: so it went from being the fun to their job.
13:31
Speaker 2: So it was a fascinating time.
13:39
Speaker 1: A sort of step back. Basic question here is just
13:42
Speaker 1: can you take us through what a team manager does
13:45
Speaker 1: for rugby team? You know, because in football in the
13:48
Speaker 1: in the UK and things, the manager often sort of
13:50
Speaker 1: means the coach, but it's different in New Zealand.
13:53
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, well there's I guess the role that I
13:55
Speaker 2: first had was when I started with Stagram here it
13:58
Speaker 2: was actually the general manager and so technically Graham reported
14:01
Speaker 2: to me, and so when we sat down to discuss
14:04
Speaker 2: how it was going to work, he said, Darren, I
14:07
Speaker 2: just want to coach and I just want you to
14:08
Speaker 2: sort out everything else, and so I said fine.
14:10
Speaker 1: So that's what we did.
14:12
Speaker 2: Where it probably finished was there's probably two big buckets
14:15
Speaker 2: to the role, So it was it was set up
14:18
Speaker 2: as a leadership role. So one was to provide a
14:20
Speaker 2: bridge between the organization and the team, so I said,
14:24
Speaker 2: on the executive of the organization because a lot of
14:26
Speaker 2: decisions that were made commercially, financially, legally impacted the team
14:31
Speaker 2: and performance. So I needed to be part of that
14:34
Speaker 2: conversation and provide an all back perspective to everything within
14:37
Speaker 2: New Zealand rugby. So that was one part. So that
14:41
Speaker 2: whole business side, all the commercial stuff, the communications, all
14:46
Speaker 2: of that, and then on the team side was really
14:48
Speaker 2: just the operation, which is, you know, seventy people traveling
14:52
Speaker 2: around the world. We don't have a base, a lot
14:54
Speaker 2: of logistics, a lot of logistics, a lot of operational requirements.
14:59
Speaker 2: Basically allowing the coach to turn up to any training
15:01
Speaker 2: field in here in the world and knowing that it's pristine,
15:04
Speaker 2: every piece of equipment and needs secure et cetera. So, yeah,
15:09
Speaker 2: that was a big and there was a big team
15:11
Speaker 2: of people contributing to that, and that sort of grew
15:14
Speaker 2: and grew the more you imagine probably the last team,
15:17
Speaker 2: you suddenly security became a real big issue for us.
15:20
Speaker 2: Not protecting ourselves from spies or anything, but just the
15:23
Speaker 2: world we're now playing in Paris, there's a level one
15:27
Speaker 2: security of it. How we're going to manage ourselves, you know.
15:29
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of sol I mean, you're solving
15:30
Speaker 1: a lot of problems so that the team and the
15:32
Speaker 1: coach don't have to deal with them.
15:34
Speaker 2: I guess you're sort of enabling the team to be
15:38
Speaker 2: able to get on and do their thing and with
15:39
Speaker 2: limited distractions and constantly thinking about the performance equation and that,
15:44
Speaker 2: so how can they be in the best shape on Saturday,
15:48
Speaker 2: but without I think the big thing in one of
15:50
Speaker 2: the I think the features of the period was you've
15:52
Speaker 2: got to build independence in your athletes because that's what
15:55
Speaker 2: they've got to be like on the field. So if
15:57
Speaker 2: you've got a very big staff, you can become quite dependent,
16:01
Speaker 2: like the athlete's going to get depending on you because
16:02
Speaker 2: you did everything for anything happening. So it was like
16:05
Speaker 2: trying to build an environment where people could still keep learning,
16:07
Speaker 2: still manage their own lives. But we seamlessly have a
16:11
Speaker 2: lot of things there, the tools in place, the structures
16:13
Speaker 2: in place, so that that could happen.
16:14
Speaker 1: So was the financial pressure, I mean, it's a professional game.
16:18
Speaker 1: Did you have to soak up some of the you know,
16:19
Speaker 1: the commercial side of it. Yeah.
16:21
Speaker 2: I think we're both from a you know, a revenue perspective,
16:25
Speaker 2: making sure that there was a good fit between some
16:28
Speaker 2: of the companies we're partnering with, and and sort of
16:30
Speaker 2: the values that the team holds really highly. And similarly,
16:33
Speaker 2: the only coaches want more and more and I need
16:39
Speaker 2: this coach, I need this coach. And so it was
16:41
Speaker 2: often a case of we had a great we had
16:45
Speaker 2: great chairs, we had great boards that I guess in
16:47
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, we educated them about performance so
16:50
Speaker 2: that they could support us in the way that we needed.
16:52
Speaker 2: And I guess we're always conscious of the fact that
16:56
Speaker 2: while we needed what we needed, the pool of money
16:59
Speaker 2: that we were taking from was also for the whole
17:01
Speaker 2: of the game, right, Yeah, So while we had a
17:04
Speaker 2: share of it where you had to be careful and yes,
17:06
Speaker 2: we drove a lot of the revenue.
17:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, but drives revenue. I guess, yeah, that's right.
17:12
Speaker 2: I mean you.
17:13
Speaker 1: Probably talked about this a bit, but obviously you were
17:16
Speaker 1: went through the lows and then the highs with the
17:18
Speaker 1: all blacks. I mean, do you recall, you know, how
17:21
Speaker 1: it sort of changed the way you looked at it,
17:25
Speaker 1: sort of like say two thousand and seven compared to
17:27
Speaker 1: twenty eleven.
17:28
Speaker 2: Well, there was a lot of Again, it's about sort
17:30
Speaker 2: of the mindset you take into the losses. You know,
17:34
Speaker 2: Bill Gates said, you know, success as a lousy teacher,
17:37
Speaker 2: and I actually go, well, Bill, we were eighty three percent.
17:39
Speaker 2: So if you lean into learning lessons, it doesn't matter
17:42
Speaker 2: whether you win or lose. You've got to a high performance.
17:44
Speaker 2: You've got to constantly be learning because the because the
17:47
Speaker 2: margins are so small and everyone wants to be at
17:49
Speaker 2: the top of the mountain and there's only room for one,
17:52
Speaker 2: and so you're either there or you're not.
17:55
Speaker 1: And it can be cruel, right because you've done all
17:59
Speaker 1: the work and everything might have gone really well. The
18:03
Speaker 1: ball can bounce a funny way. That's it, and that's
18:06
Speaker 1: and then the rest of New Zealand just you know,
18:08
Speaker 1: raps one way or the other.
18:09
Speaker 2: I know, I just ended up being quite pragmatic and go,
18:14
Speaker 2: I can only do what I can do, and I've
18:15
Speaker 2: just got to be proud of what I've done. And
18:19
Speaker 2: when you went eight out of ten times, it's actually
18:22
Speaker 2: that became more challenging than losing more often, if you
18:24
Speaker 2: know what I mean, because your complacency can arrive very quickly,
18:27
Speaker 2: and it's it's almost like a silent thing that you
18:29
Speaker 2: don't actually know it until they run on the field
18:31
Speaker 2: or you watched the first five minutes ago. We're not there,
18:35
Speaker 2: So it was, yeah, it was Actually the value of
18:38
Speaker 2: seven was that we did a pretty rigorous review. Like
18:40
Speaker 2: Graham nearly lost his job. Thankfully, the board realized that
18:45
Speaker 2: a team, him, Steve and Wayne were a team, and
18:48
Speaker 2: that was we were blessed to have those three gentlemen,
18:51
Speaker 2: you know, so it allowed us to carry on. But
18:54
Speaker 2: the lessons we learned from OS seven actually served us
18:56
Speaker 2: for ten years because we kept coming back to them
18:58
Speaker 2: to say we wouldn't forget. And I think even last
19:01
Speaker 2: year before I went to France, I pulled out the
19:02
Speaker 2: O seven report. Is there anything we're missing going back
19:05
Speaker 2: back here?
19:05
Speaker 1: You know?
19:07
Speaker 2: And so if you lean into it, it's fine, but
19:09
Speaker 2: it does take its toll.
19:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, is there how much of it?
19:13
Speaker 2: You know?
19:14
Speaker 1: Getting the psychology right? I mean, sports psychology is a
19:17
Speaker 1: big thing. Now you have to work with the players
19:19
Speaker 1: and get the mindset right. I mean, is that one
19:23
Speaker 1: of the biggest challenges.
19:24
Speaker 2: I think it was probably the biggest thing that defined
19:27
Speaker 2: our period that we decided to take that on because
19:31
Speaker 2: we used to have the saying and the team it's
19:32
Speaker 2: easy to sweat and like the player, you're go and
19:34
Speaker 2: tell them to do more gym work, They'll do it.
19:35
Speaker 2: You tell them to run more, they'll do it. But okay,
19:37
Speaker 2: how about and go and sit down and work on
19:38
Speaker 2: your mental skills or look at how you cope with
19:41
Speaker 2: pressure or why you made that decision. And actually that's
19:44
Speaker 2: a skill, and it's the one you've got to learn.
19:47
Speaker 2: And I think the biggest thing we learned out of
19:50
Speaker 2: seven was if we had to define what our job was,
19:53
Speaker 2: we had to build self reliance in our players so
19:56
Speaker 2: they could lead themselves, and we had to make them
19:58
Speaker 2: really good at making decisions under pressure. So everything we
20:02
Speaker 2: did had to be about that. So if you're talking operationally,
20:05
Speaker 2: i'd want to just give them the plan. I wanted
20:07
Speaker 2: to go and find it and see what it meant
20:09
Speaker 2: for them and determine what their plan looked like for
20:11
Speaker 2: the week. So those were sort of constantly trying to
20:13
Speaker 2: build this independence and people.
20:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
20:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was I think in the end, probably
20:19
Speaker 2: the thing that shifted us the most. That realizing that
20:22
Speaker 2: the mental side of the game was as important as
20:24
Speaker 2: a physical side, as technical as a technical as as
20:29
Speaker 2: the food you eat, as is having life sorted at home,
20:31
Speaker 2: That there was all these factors in getting an athlete
20:33
Speaker 2: ready to play.
20:34
Speaker 1: Just to bring it back to money, but you know
20:36
Speaker 1: that the in the old days, especially maybe the early
20:40
Speaker 1: days of professionalism, because there wasn't money before then, but
20:43
Speaker 1: you know, there was that sense that sometimes you know
20:46
Speaker 1: that the player not all blacks necessarily, but sports players
20:49
Speaker 1: would have a short career and make a lot of
20:50
Speaker 1: money and struggle. Was there sort of support you know,
20:54
Speaker 1: do the players get support about how to manage the
20:56
Speaker 1: financial side of their lives and things as well, so
20:58
Speaker 1: that they.
20:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that one of the real strengths was
21:01
Speaker 2: the and at times it's testing the relationship between the
21:03
Speaker 2: players Association and the organization and they've got a real
21:07
Speaker 2: high level of care for players. And so I think
21:10
Speaker 2: in my very early days at Canterbury there was a
21:13
Speaker 2: pilot done of what they call a player development manager,
21:15
Speaker 2: so someone that comes in with the full responsibility just
21:18
Speaker 2: for looking for plaers life outside of araby so family, education, employment,
21:22
Speaker 2: and it was a voluntary program but it's still to
21:24
Speaker 2: this day in place. So that's one aspect where there's
21:28
Speaker 2: a real good opportunity for people to jump into that
21:30
Speaker 2: and set themselves up. The second was that as the
21:34
Speaker 2: sport got more and more, professional agents became a part
21:37
Speaker 2: of the scene and a lot of them do really
21:38
Speaker 2: good work in that space in terms of helping get
21:41
Speaker 2: players set up.
21:42
Speaker 1: It's a strange thing and really you know, young young
21:45
Speaker 1: people getting quite a high salary quite early and then
21:49
Speaker 1: but maybe with a relatively short window, you know, or
21:52
Speaker 1: ten years or something like that to set themselves up.
21:55
Speaker 2: Hard to you know, in the pre professional days, you
21:58
Speaker 2: could probably still do a degree and be an week.
22:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was quite hard to do.
22:02
Speaker 2: You know. We had a few players would still do
22:03
Speaker 2: a paper a year, you know, but it was hard.
22:07
Speaker 2: Even I am noticing more though. One thing we did
22:10
Speaker 2: learn was if if we could give them more real
22:13
Speaker 2: life experiences outside of sport while they were a sports person,
22:16
Speaker 2: was really valuable because they often had missed that real
22:18
Speaker 2: life experience. You just come into this world where ever
22:21
Speaker 2: thing's there for you, and so a lot of them
22:24
Speaker 2: would go and jump into a company and do a
22:26
Speaker 2: day's work just to see what it's like having experience
22:29
Speaker 2: and I see more of that, which I think is
22:31
Speaker 2: a y was a really good thing because offen, you
22:34
Speaker 2: get to thirty, you're done, and you're like you've got nothing? What?
22:37
Speaker 1: Yeah?
22:37
Speaker 2: Now?
22:37
Speaker 1: Yeah?
22:38
Speaker 2: And I mean I finished twenty years and it was
22:40
Speaker 2: the same. You know, in a lot of ways, I've
22:42
Speaker 2: got a whole lot of skills, but how do I
22:44
Speaker 2: best utilize them?
22:45
Speaker 1: So, I mean, what was it was? It just felt
22:48
Speaker 1: like time to do something different.
22:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:52
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's a difficult job to do.
22:54
Speaker 1: You're doing it for as long as you did, it
22:56
Speaker 1: was almost quite remarkable in itself. Really when you look
22:58
Speaker 1: around the world top level sports.
23:01
Speaker 2: I think what I have learned is it success is
23:05
Speaker 2: built on experience too, you know, like too often in
23:08
Speaker 2: sport results become so parament that people just get chopped
23:11
Speaker 2: and in the end it's again I go back to
23:14
Speaker 2: this whole notion of teams, you know, because there was
23:16
Speaker 2: a consistency of people over a long period allowed systems
23:20
Speaker 2: and structures and cultures to be built that were sustainable,
23:23
Speaker 2: you know, and people the type of people they wanted
23:25
Speaker 2: to keep improving. So that was a that was a
23:28
Speaker 2: really sort of key element to it.
23:30
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I've got a few more sort of
23:38
Speaker 1: specific quick fire questions about money that we ask, but
23:42
Speaker 1: we can keep bringing it back to some of the
23:45
Speaker 1: stuff about teams and performance. But looking back, what's the
23:49
Speaker 1: poorest you ever.
23:50
Speaker 2: Been at university? Yeah? I think when I finished university,
23:53
Speaker 2: I was heading off to Queenstown. My last couple of
23:57
Speaker 2: year at university, I got into doing Traithline, something that
24:00
Speaker 2: go and buy bikes and things like that. And the
24:02
Speaker 2: student loan blearned out of it, you know. And I
24:05
Speaker 2: don't think actually had student loans, and I think we
24:06
Speaker 2: had overdrafts. Yeah, and so I headed to Queenstown. I
24:11
Speaker 2: was bunking down and the mates flat in the lounge
24:14
Speaker 2: for probably the first six weeks, and every day going
24:18
Speaker 2: to the money machine and hoping there was enough to
24:19
Speaker 2: buy some food. Yeah, and I didn't really have a
24:22
Speaker 2: job because I was still training still do my raft
24:24
Speaker 2: guide's training. Managed to pick up a driving job which
24:28
Speaker 2: kind of just kept me going until I got my
24:31
Speaker 2: rafting ticket, and then the summer arrived, so there was
24:33
Speaker 2: plenty of works.
24:34
Speaker 1: So that was the first first real job you had,
24:36
Speaker 1: was as a rafting guide or yeah, yeah, yeah, when
24:41
Speaker 1: you I guess might not have been then, but at
24:43
Speaker 1: some point when you finally had a bit of money
24:46
Speaker 1: in your pocket, was there something that you splashed out
24:48
Speaker 1: on or that you sort of thought finally I can
24:51
Speaker 1: afford now.
24:52
Speaker 2: I was kind of always drawn to the things that
24:54
Speaker 2: I was most interested in, you know, So again probably
24:57
Speaker 2: a bit like the analogy around buying the pads when
24:59
Speaker 2: I played cricket. You Yeah, in Queenstown it was all
25:01
Speaker 2: about skiing, so you need to have every season of
25:04
Speaker 2: STI and mountain biking has sort of just taken off,
25:08
Speaker 2: and I'd been into that trithon it sort of stopped
25:10
Speaker 2: for me, and I'd got into mountain biking and trail
25:12
Speaker 2: running and.
25:13
Speaker 1: So there was always that.
25:14
Speaker 2: But I think in the long time, I'd always had this,
25:16
Speaker 2: Like most keys, I always wanted to get my own place. Yeah,
25:19
Speaker 2: and so yeah, I bought a place in Queenstown in
25:23
Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen.
25:24
Speaker 1: Wow, And well that was a good move.
25:26
Speaker 2: Got move, yeah, because I guess that, but it was
25:29
Speaker 2: it wasn't like I had nothing, though you wanted to
25:32
Speaker 2: live up getting two loans from two different banks to
25:36
Speaker 2: one for a deposit and one for the mortgage. But
25:39
Speaker 2: I paid like sixty thousand dollars for a two bedroom
25:41
Speaker 2: townhouse or something, and.
25:42
Speaker 1: It really sort of all took off from there.
25:44
Speaker 2: It was crazy, and I got out reasonably early, maybe
25:48
Speaker 2: five or six years later, and now I did well,
25:50
Speaker 2: But I look at what I could have done.
25:52
Speaker 1: It's always you know, yeah, I mean, you know it
25:57
Speaker 1: almost certainly isn't for most people. But how much is
26:00
Speaker 1: money and those financial things been a driver through through
26:04
Speaker 1: your career?
26:05
Speaker 2: Not really, I you know, I never actually wanted the
26:10
Speaker 2: all Black job, Like it wasn't something that I sort
26:12
Speaker 2: of had put on my life path. Kind of circumstances
26:16
Speaker 2: allowed it to happen, and I never was one to
26:20
Speaker 2: really sort of debate what I got paid. Just always felt,
26:22
Speaker 2: you know, pay me what my worth. I think I've
26:24
Speaker 2: only once in my whole career gone back to I
26:26
Speaker 2: think we need to get a look at this, But
26:30
Speaker 2: I just felt it sounds a little bit clocher, but
26:32
Speaker 2: I actually felt incredibly privileged to have that job. You know,
26:35
Speaker 2: like some of the people that have been before me,
26:38
Speaker 2: the circles of people that you had to work with,
26:41
Speaker 2: the opportunities that popped up, which now have all become
26:45
Speaker 2: you know, networks and relationships that have been built, and.
26:48
Speaker 1: The history, I mean the history and the value in
26:50
Speaker 1: that brand for New Zealand. I mean that all Blacks
26:52
Speaker 1: is probably the biggest brand we've got.
26:56
Speaker 2: I think that's certainly been helpful. And I guess I
27:00
Speaker 2: always a bit, like I said earlier, always felt I
27:02
Speaker 2: was pretty ordinary, but I was part of something extraordinary
27:05
Speaker 2: and and just sort of realizing the contribution you're making
27:08
Speaker 2: became more important, and how it's it's very inspiring being
27:13
Speaker 2: in an environment that we you see the effort that
27:15
Speaker 2: people are putting in all the time, and you can't
27:17
Speaker 2: get caught up in it yourself and think, well, gosh,
27:21
Speaker 2: I've got to how can I be the best version
27:23
Speaker 2: of myself?
27:23
Speaker 1: And terrifying. I mean in some ways the passion puts
27:27
Speaker 1: it on a level like, you know, people care about
27:29
Speaker 1: the economy and if your finance minister or Reserve bank governor,
27:32
Speaker 1: you've got a lot of pressure. But people actually probably
27:35
Speaker 1: more likely to get upset. And you know.
27:38
Speaker 2: I think again, that's just how you always and we
27:43
Speaker 2: I think a big turning step from O seven and
27:45
Speaker 2: actually say let's walk towards pressure. Let's not be afraid
27:47
Speaker 2: of it. Let's how cool is that we can we
27:50
Speaker 2: can do things people have never done before. And it
27:52
Speaker 2: became more above the line in terms of our aspiration.
27:55
Speaker 2: Then I'll let it get to you. And you have
27:58
Speaker 2: to you have to be skinned, Yes, you have to
28:02
Speaker 2: not take things too personally, yeah, because.
28:04
Speaker 1: It'll ruin you. From my side, the media, is it
28:08
Speaker 1: tough dealing with the media from an all blacks perspective?
28:11
Speaker 2: I think the thing I wouldn't say it was tough.
28:13
Speaker 2: I think the thing that happened over the period I
28:14
Speaker 2: was just the expansion of the media. Yeah, you know,
28:17
Speaker 2: so suddenly you had you had a group of media
28:19
Speaker 2: who are used to it being doing a certain way,
28:21
Speaker 2: and then suddenly you've got all these other layers that
28:23
Speaker 2: there was just as much expectation for us to deliver
28:25
Speaker 2: to them as it was to what I'd call there
28:27
Speaker 2: was traditional in you and so then and then you
28:30
Speaker 2: lay in broadcasting, so then became like the biggest funder.
28:33
Speaker 2: So you've you've got to accommodate them. Then you've got
28:35
Speaker 2: the new media, social and and so it became that
28:39
Speaker 2: became the challenge, trying to get the balance right, trying
28:41
Speaker 2: to meet everyone's needs, but then still not let it
28:45
Speaker 2: become a distractor for performance.
28:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
28:47
Speaker 2: I guess what I did struggle with at times was
28:51
Speaker 2: more from outside where plays couldn't cope with it, And
28:54
Speaker 2: I think that fell on us to get them better
28:56
Speaker 2: prepared to be able to deal with it.
28:57
Speaker 1: You know, it's always felt the media, training.
28:58
Speaker 2: Felt the media with the the conduit to the fans,
29:02
Speaker 2: you know, and like so you know, I'm not talking
29:04
Speaker 2: to you, I'm talking to the audience, you know, And
29:07
Speaker 2: so trying to get that in place. But yeah, like
29:10
Speaker 2: it was one of those jobs you're never going to
29:12
Speaker 2: get everyone satisfied, you know.
29:13
Speaker 1: And so you can't worry too much. Yeah, And it.
29:16
Speaker 2: Was really you always trying to get that people to
29:19
Speaker 2: see that you're accessible, and then often the mainstream wouldn't
29:23
Speaker 2: see the accessible. We've done all these things which we
29:25
Speaker 2: hadn't invited the media too, because we just wanted to
29:26
Speaker 2: do the right thing by.
29:27
Speaker 1: A charity or or make a wish for a kid.
29:31
Speaker 2: Or something like that. So it was a real it
29:33
Speaker 2: was a it was a balance, you know, it was
29:34
Speaker 2: tough going.
29:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you spend money on yourself, now, what's the
29:38
Speaker 1: most sort of indulgent things you'd do for yourself. Yeah.
29:42
Speaker 2: I've still always been about the toys. Yeah, yeah, but
29:45
Speaker 2: I got kids and pretty passionate about them having their
29:48
Speaker 2: best chance, you know. So I got a daughter at
29:50
Speaker 2: UNI and a daughter nearly finished high school. So and
29:54
Speaker 2: I think now I've got the chance to spend more,
29:56
Speaker 2: you know, while we were away, let's say three to
29:59
Speaker 2: four months a year, other eight months I work from home.
30:01
Speaker 2: So I was actually really lucky. I wasn't a nine
30:03
Speaker 2: to five Yeah, Yeah, so that was that was actually good.
30:06
Speaker 2: I used to say to my wife, you know, eight
30:08
Speaker 2: months I'm actually at home, you know, even though and
30:11
Speaker 2: I can pick and choose what I do. So but
30:14
Speaker 2: now just you watching watching them be successful, and they've
30:16
Speaker 2: only known me doing you know, so they didn't know
30:20
Speaker 2: what a nine to five dad was because I wasn't.
30:22
Speaker 2: I was in that person.
30:23
Speaker 1: You're still you know, you've still got a sports you're doing.
30:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still very passionate about biking, so do a
30:29
Speaker 2: lot of mountain biking, road cycling, and still run. I
30:32
Speaker 2: can still get the old carcass around.
30:34
Speaker 1: The bottes are still holding out.
30:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I'm still skiing, still probably my my biggest passion,
30:40
Speaker 2: and done a little bit of surfing the last few years,
30:42
Speaker 2: which of course enjoyed.
30:43
Speaker 1: You've got a garage full of plenty of gear.
30:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I don't know, just it's it's it's
30:47
Speaker 2: just a I just find there's a connection with pushing
30:52
Speaker 2: yourself physically that you kind of can get into this
30:55
Speaker 2: while it's hard physically, you kind of get into the
30:57
Speaker 2: states sometimes where it's actually really good for you.
31:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
31:01
Speaker 2: A great place I can find just riding the bike,
31:03
Speaker 2: A great place to think you know. Yeah, I just
31:05
Speaker 2: started to use surriy to record things while I ride,
31:07
Speaker 2: you know, because all these great ideas come, you.
31:09
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, just while you let your brain. Yeah, it's
31:12
Speaker 1: quite dictative. I find that with running, right, you just
31:15
Speaker 1: chagging along and your brain can, yeah, go through very
31:18
Speaker 1: good thoughts. A question I've been asking people is about
31:23
Speaker 1: whether you buy lotto tickets and if you imagine winning lotto,
31:26
Speaker 1: how much do you imagine winning?
31:28
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like it used to be like a
31:31
Speaker 2: million dollars was a lot, wasn't it. Yeah, And now
31:32
Speaker 2: we have jackpots that are thirty so I don't I
31:36
Speaker 2: kind of I'm very much sort of living inside the
31:39
Speaker 2: bubble of what I can control. You know.
31:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still buy to take it every week, but
31:44
Speaker 1: don't pay much notice to it.
31:45
Speaker 2: And you know, yeah, yeah too, I'm like, oh, I
31:47
Speaker 2: haven't ticked that, you know.
31:48
Speaker 1: Sort of have it because it called me. I ask
31:50
Speaker 1: it because you know, sometimes the idea of winning thirty
31:52
Speaker 1: million dollars or something like that might be actually quite
31:55
Speaker 1: traumatic upheaval of life and then you've got to manage
31:59
Speaker 1: money and all that sort of. Yeah, and another big
32:02
Speaker 1: question and answer it how you'd like really but you know,
32:06
Speaker 1: when when you look at New Zealand and and you
32:10
Speaker 1: know the issues that we have in a whole bunch
32:12
Speaker 1: of areas, social inequality, all those sort of things. If
32:16
Speaker 1: we could make you Prime Minister for the day and say,
32:18
Speaker 1: you know, focus on one thing, what what the what's
32:21
Speaker 1: the area that you'd like to do you think would
32:24
Speaker 1: be most important to work on.
32:28
Speaker 2: I guess one of the big principles I learned through
32:31
Speaker 2: the orbects was this whole notion of like ownership and
32:34
Speaker 2: responsibility and like living above the line constantly because it's
32:37
Speaker 2: much more future based. It's a much happier place to
32:41
Speaker 2: be and you're actually like you're generating things. And my
32:46
Speaker 2: my fear in this country is often we tend to
32:50
Speaker 2: go to blame really quickly and excuses. And that's what
32:56
Speaker 2: I learned in high performance. You can't live in that
32:57
Speaker 2: space like because you just don't perform. You know, You've
33:00
Speaker 2: got to constantly improve and constantly learn. So and the
33:05
Speaker 2: tall poppy syndrome just kills me in this country because
33:07
Speaker 2: it's not until you go globally actually see how amazingly
33:10
Speaker 2: we good we are both in business and sport. You know,
33:13
Speaker 2: to be honest and some of the the country of
33:15
Speaker 2: our size, it's unbelievable what we do. And even I
33:20
Speaker 2: look back at all Black legacy and go I don't
33:22
Speaker 2: think people really appreciate fact that we only played the
33:24
Speaker 2: top ten teams in the world every week. Yeah, you know,
33:27
Speaker 2: and that's unreal. So yeah, that to me, it's it's
33:32
Speaker 2: more an attitude, I think, like the more of a
33:34
Speaker 2: mindset of how can we just own own our stuff
33:36
Speaker 2: and let's let's just keep advancing because we've done so
33:39
Speaker 2: many great things. Yeah.
33:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like sometimes New Zealand gets in a
33:42
Speaker 1: good space and then sometimes it gets in a quite
33:44
Speaker 1: a bad space. I mean, it's been a tough few years,
33:47
Speaker 1: I guess. But yeah, when you when you think about
33:51
Speaker 1: you know, that tall poppy thing. It's been part of
33:54
Speaker 1: our culture for years. Phrase do you think you know
33:58
Speaker 1: there is it just being a population being isolated you
34:01
Speaker 1: I think.
34:02
Speaker 2: So, And probably because we know someone that knows someone
34:05
Speaker 2: you know and you know, the six degrees of separation.
34:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it probably comes from a place of like
34:11
Speaker 1: wanting to feel ownership or passion.
34:13
Speaker 2: Or skin in the game, you know. I think we
34:15
Speaker 2: have a lot of that. But yeah, I just wish
34:18
Speaker 2: we'd celebrate more, you know, just enjoy the moments. And
34:22
Speaker 2: I'm talking to myself here because I didn't, and I
34:24
Speaker 2: was so committed to the cause that often I'd miss
34:27
Speaker 2: the fact that we're just held onto the bleedter though
34:29
Speaker 2: for the seventeenth year, and I wouldn't take that moment,
34:31
Speaker 2: you know, and consider all the work I've done.
34:33
Speaker 1: And record at Eden Park, I mean, the must. I
34:35
Speaker 1: don't know if there's any other team in the world.
34:37
Speaker 1: As soon as it's taken.
34:38
Speaker 2: When you have those bad moments, that's when you really
34:40
Speaker 2: feel like, oh man, I wish i'd enjoyed that. So, yeah,
34:45
Speaker 2: that's probably the thing I look at the most politically
34:48
Speaker 2: and go, I just wish people would keep giving us
34:50
Speaker 2: hope and keep giving us what the future could look like,
34:53
Speaker 2: so that we've got something we can, you know, aspire
34:56
Speaker 2: to be sure.
34:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, just finally, then, can you just take us
35:01
Speaker 1: back to what's on the agenda now and what the
35:03
Speaker 1: plans are and how you plan to work this new
35:06
Speaker 1: role with vant set.
35:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, so with Vanna Sets So, the founder, Craig and
35:10
Speaker 2: I actually taught skiing together way back in Coleenstown and
35:13
Speaker 2: I was always Craig had a sort of unique perspective
35:17
Speaker 2: on things which I really loved. And I got into
35:19
Speaker 2: the all black role and I saw him some of
35:21
Speaker 2: the writing he was saying about some of the ideas,
35:23
Speaker 2: and I was like, I really, I can see what
35:26
Speaker 2: we're doing. I can see a connection there. And again
35:29
Speaker 2: it went back to that whole principle of how are
35:31
Speaker 2: we going to get everyone better, which is something I
35:34
Speaker 2: found in sport was always about sandpapering. How can we
35:37
Speaker 2: get it better? And how can we make the whole
35:38
Speaker 2: team better? You know, not just it's not just focus
35:41
Speaker 2: on the leadership or on the strategy, but let's focus
35:43
Speaker 2: on the whole group and build an environ where everyone
35:45
Speaker 2: wants to because funny thing happens when you get everyone
35:48
Speaker 2: on the same page, all the outcomes and the measurements
35:53
Speaker 2: all will increased too. And so Craig and I've talked
35:56
Speaker 2: for a lot of years and I was sort of
35:58
Speaker 2: familiar where it was going. And when he got the
36:00
Speaker 2: idea of this platform, I was like, well, is the
36:02
Speaker 2: way I can help you with that? You know? Can
36:04
Speaker 2: I be an external advisor? Can I help with program
36:09
Speaker 2: delivery and things like that? So that's the thing excites me.
36:12
Speaker 2: We've talked a bit. At the moment it's business focus,
36:14
Speaker 2: but we probably believe in time it could be something
36:16
Speaker 2: that could work really well in professional sport as well. Yeah,
36:19
Speaker 2: which would be something i'd really you know, take away.
36:22
Speaker 2: It takes away a lot of the clutter and just
36:23
Speaker 2: gives it. I know in sport that structure is really
36:25
Speaker 2: important and this just provides that, and it gives people
36:29
Speaker 2: the tools right at their fingertips to just improve every day.
36:33
Speaker 1: Which I really like. It's global ambassador, is that right?
36:36
Speaker 1: So it's a globally focused business.
36:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think so, you know, whatever sector they
36:41
Speaker 2: go into, I feel I can help contribute to the
36:44
Speaker 2: overall program and the principles of it and provide, let's
36:47
Speaker 2: I'm a p academic and an academic, you know, I think,
36:50
Speaker 2: provide really good practical examples of how those ideas, philosophies,
36:54
Speaker 2: practices work and share examples with people so they can
36:57
Speaker 2: sort of actually start to believe I actually, if I
36:59
Speaker 2: do that, I'll get this. So that's the part that
37:02
Speaker 2: excites me is and it was no different in rugby.
37:04
Speaker 2: I love I love watching the journey of a platform.
37:06
Speaker 2: When he started as a Rockie through to when he
37:08
Speaker 2: finished and then the person he became after. And I
37:10
Speaker 2: think that's the same and it's the same sort of
37:12
Speaker 2: principle that I can bring to to working with Craigan
37:15
Speaker 2: and has people on that.
37:16
Speaker 1: That's great. Look, I'm going to leave it there, but
37:18
Speaker 1: thanks for talking to us. Now, Hey, you very welcome.
37:20
Speaker 2: Thands you is.
37:21
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Money Talks. If
37:24
Speaker 1: you want to get in touch, drop me a line
37:26
Speaker 1: at Liam dot Dan at inzme dot co dot nz
37:31
Speaker 1: and you can read more from me at inzidherld dot
37:33
Speaker 1: co dot NZED. Thanks to my producer Ethan Silves and
37:37
Speaker 1: sound engineer Liam McDonald. Follow Money Talks on iHeartRadio or
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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, with new episodes available every Thursday.