Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Amassing Wealth Series: Wealthy Woman Lawyer® Stacy Kirven Invests in a Second Business

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Amassing Wealth Series: Wealthy Woman Lawyer® Stacy Kirven Invests in a Second Business · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:02
  Davina Frederick: Hi everyone, and welcome to the wealthy woman
• 0:04
  lawyer Podcast. I'm Vita Frederick. And today I'm super
• 0:08
  excited because I have a client of mine who's on Stacy curve.
• 0:11
  And Stacy and I have known each other for probably about three
• 0:14
  years now. And I'm so glad that I got to know her, she is an
• 0:19
  attorney, she helps us our law firm out in Wyoming Sheridan,
• 0:24
  Wyoming to be specific, home of the world's largest rodeo, I
• 0:28
  think, and, and she, she has a number of different practice
• 0:33
  areas, we're going to let her go into a little more detail about
• 0:35
  how she serves her clients. But I'm glad Stacy's here today
• 0:39
  because she's not only going to talk about her law firm and our
• 0:42
  law firm growth, but we're going to talk about a new venture that
• 0:46
  she has been able to participate in, and a path that she's
• 0:51
  embarked on that I'm really excited to share with you guys.
• 0:53
  So welcome, Stacey.
• 0:55
  Unknown: Thank you.
• 0:56
  Davina Frederick: So why don't you start out by just telling us
• 0:58
  a little bit about your law firm who you serve, how you serve
• 1:01
  them? That kind of thing?
• 1:04
  Unknown: Sure. Um, so we are basically a general practice
• 1:08
  firm, but we primarily help people with criminal defense and
• 1:15
  family law. I also practice immigration and worker's
• 1:20
  compensation, and then my associate practices in
• 1:25
  bankruptcy, as well as criminal defense and family law. And then
• 1:31
  we're in the process of hiring another associate. And I don't
• 1:35
  know what they're going to do. But I guess we'll find out. And
• 1:40
  so we're pretty small here. And we stay really, really busy. So
• 1:45
  Davina Frederick: we do, I think to give people some context,
• 1:48
  because I know it took, you know, like you and I've had many
• 1:51
  conversations about what it's like to work in Wyoming, and
• 1:55
  particularly where you are, and it's very sort of rural and not
• 1:59
  as populated, and legal community is pretty small. So
• 2:03
  give us a little bit of an idea kind of what I think for people
• 2:08
  in bigger communities there, they have a tendency more to
• 2:11
  specialize, but where you are, you almost need to be a little
• 2:14
  bit of a generalist, because the population is so underserved
• 2:18
  when it comes to legal services. Right?
• 2:21
  Unknown: Right. Um, so just for an idea of size, Sheridan has a
• 2:26
  little less than 20,000 people total. So at least that's the
• 2:32
  last time I drove by the population size. So it is very
• 2:37
  small. I mean, we do have a lot of attorneys here and I buy a
• 2:41
  lot, I mean, just for our size. But in the surrounding areas, a
• 2:48
  lot of people have been retiring and kind of getting out of
• 2:52
  family law specifically. So there's really been a need for
• 2:55
  that. And working here as an attorney you you have to travel.
• 2:59
  So I work all around the state. I'm also licensed in Montana. So
• 3:04
  I go to Montana a lot. Billings Montana is only about an hour
• 3:09
  and 45 minutes away from here. So I go there regularly. And we
• 3:16
  have to travel to Casper, which is two hours away, Cheyenne,
• 3:19
  just four hours away. Buffalo is only 40 minutes away. Gillette
• 3:24
  is about an hour and a half away. And so those are the
• 3:26
  places we regularly travel to. And so the areas around here are
• 3:32
  underserved. And so we have to go we have to be willing to
• 3:35
  travel. So as an attorney in Wyoming that's just regular, use
• 3:39
  half in the car and you go and you travel, but we are able to
• 3:43
  appear remotely for a lot of things. So traveling is really
• 3:45
  just for those important hearings. But yeah, we do have
• 3:49
  people call in for random contract review, putting liens
• 3:55
  on things, stuff like that, that we just have to research and do
• 4:00
  if we want right now we're kind of busy. So we don't have to
• 4:03
  take those cases and we can refer them out. But yeah, we
• 4:07
  really have to be able to take on all areas.
• 4:11
  Davina Frederick: Right? Right. Right. And that for you that
• 4:16
  really kind of suits you too, because you also love the
• 4:18
  variety of that from what you've you and I've discussed to be
• 4:21
  able to do, you know different things and and, you know, break
• 4:26
  it up a little bit so you're not doing the same thing all the
• 4:28
  time. You're, let's talk about kind of where where you started
• 4:33
  in your firm, how long you've been practicing how long you've
• 4:36
  had your own practice and and some of your some of the things
• 4:43
  that have led to your growth and some of the things you've done
• 4:47
  as you've grown. So let's start is a lot of questions at once.
• 4:51
  Let's just start with your how long you practice and when you
• 4:54
  started your What led you to start your own practice?
• 4:57
  Unknown: Sure. So I've been practicing for We're about seven
• 5:00
  and a half years now. And I started out with a firm here in
• 5:06
  Sheridan, I was there for about four and a half years. And then
• 5:10
  I decided to leave and open my firm. So I was in January 2019.
• 5:15
  So about three and a half years, I think that is, um, and I, it
• 5:21
  was just me for, I think, four months or so then I was too
• 5:26
  busy. And I couldn't handle that myself. So I hired a part time
• 5:29
  paralegal. And she kind of grew into full time, because I was
• 5:34
  expecting my third child. And so by the time I had the child, I
• 5:40
  wanted my paralegal to be full time. And so she was kind of
• 5:44
  coming back from maternity leave. So that worked out well.
• 5:47
  So she came on full time. And then I don't know, I started
• 5:53
  talking to you, cuz I didn't know what to do anymore. Because
• 5:58
  I became too busy. And so I moved into having my paralegal
• 6:07
  and a receptionist. I'm not sure when that was, I think it was
• 6:14
  before I was talking to you. But I think it was about a year and
• 6:18
  a half in. And so I had them. And then I moved into a new
• 6:26
  building, which is where I'm at now. And I decided that I needed
• 6:32
  when you told me I needed another associate it and talked
• 6:37
  me into that. So my associate Jenna came on board a year ago
• 6:42
  today, actually, I've been trying to remind myself that to
• 6:46
  tell her thank you for staying for a year.
• 6:49
  Davina Frederick: Well, actually, actually, I think you
• 6:51
  had. So first of all, just to clarify, I did not talk to you
• 6:55
  in anything. by you, I love you.
• 6:59
  Unknown: I encourage you understand that I needed that
• 7:02
  help
• 7:02
  Davina Frederick: you do that, right? Because of one of the
• 7:06
  things about Stacy is she has an incredible work ethic. And she
• 7:11
  loves to work. And so she will work around the clock. And she
• 7:14
  also has three little kids at home. How old are kids?
• 7:18
  Unknown: Um, my oldest is six, my middle is four and my
• 7:22
  youngest is two and a half
• 7:24
  Davina Frederick: or half. Yeah. So. So all of that was going on.
• 7:29
  And I think when we met, you only had really, I think you
• 7:31
  have one person helping you. And then you start adding staff and
• 7:35
  stuff like that. It was a big help. But I think one of the
• 7:38
  challenges one of things I didn't want to talk about was
• 7:41
  you hiring an attorney because one of the big challenges where
• 7:44
  you live and I know this is the case with some other clients of
• 7:47
  mine who are in rural areas. And probably some of the people
• 7:50
  listening to this is that it's a small legal community, and you
• 7:54
  kind of already know everybody. And a lot of people already
• 7:57
  settled in where they are. And so there was there was a lot of
• 8:01
  discussion around where am I going to get this lawyer, I
• 8:06
  think you had had an associate that didn't work out too, right.
• 8:10
  And so you were a little gun shy at that point, and also didn't
• 8:15
  really know where to hire and you wound up doing some
• 8:17
  recruiting actually outside of your state. So what was that?
• 8:22
  First of all, what was that experience like and hiring your
• 8:24
  first associate and not having that worked out? Okay, go
• 8:28
  through with that.
• 8:29
  Unknown: My first associate it she was a legal assistant at my
• 8:35
  old firm with me, but she was going to law school online at
• 8:39
  Mitchell Hanlon. It was like when it was pre COVID. And it
• 8:42
  was one of the first ABA accredited programs. So she was
• 8:46
  going there. And then when I realized I was going to leave,
• 8:50
  she was also having some difficulty, so she wanted to
• 8:53
  leave as well. And so we kind of decided that, you know, she'd
• 8:57
  helped me out and do some externship stuff and whatever.
• 9:02
  And then she'd worked with me when she was a lawyer. I kind of
• 9:07
  realized during that process that it was probably not going
• 9:11
  to work because she didn't really seem like she had the
• 9:15
  work ethic I was looking for. But I kind of tried to be like,
• 9:22
  Well, maybe it's because she's in school. We'll kind of power
• 9:25
  through see how it works once she's licensed. So I did that,
• 9:30
  but I changed the pay structure that I had initially planned to
• 9:34
  do. Because I was worried about that. So I changed it to
• 9:37
  basically all commission so that it would hopefully motivate her
• 9:42
  to work. But it didn't. Um, and so she just basically was coming
• 9:49
  to my office every day asking me for stuff to do and she wouldn't
• 9:52
  go out and network or or really do anything. And so basically I
• 9:57
  tried to change up ways that I paid her it I had to do a whole
• 10:00
  bunch of different stuff to motivate her and it just didn't
• 10:03
  work out. So I basically just told her like, I'm sorry, like
• 10:07
  this isn't working, you're gonna need to leave. She clear out her
• 10:10
  office, it really just kind of ended poorly. And she and I have
• 10:14
  not spoken really since then. I also realized after that point
• 10:19
  that I needed somebody experienced right now, for my
• 10:23
  first hire, because I just did not have the time to teach
• 10:26
  someone how to be a lawyer. I needed someone who knew how to
• 10:29
  be a lawyer, and who could come in, and I maybe needed to teach
• 10:34
  family law, or Wyoming law. But I could not help somebody learn
• 10:39
  how to be a lawyer. So I did start posting on our Wyoming Bar
• 10:45
  Association, job board. Things like that. I helped you helped
• 10:51
  me use a recruiter. But she after a few weeks said, I don't
• 10:58
  know how to help you. I'm like, I can't help you find somebody
• 11:02
  there. She I don't think she didn't really help someone this
• 11:05
  rural. So I reached out to the University of Wyoming law
• 11:10
  school. And they posted and they also spoke to some people. So
• 11:14
  that's how I found my current person. And basically, she
• 11:19
  reached out to my paralegal because she knew her and asked
• 11:23
  her some questions. And so she then sent me her resume and an
• 11:29
  email. And basically, I was like, you're good. Like, when
• 11:33
  can you start? She was approached, she's
• 11:36
  Davina Frederick: from she was from Colorado.
• 11:39
  Unknown: She had gone to U DUB, University of Wyoming law
• 11:42
  school, and then she had gone and been a prosecutor for two
• 11:45
  years in Colorado. And so I knew that she would work out well by
• 11:50
  her resume and everything. And I apparently he told me about her
• 11:55
  too. And she seemed like she'd be a great fit. We scheduled an
• 11:57
  interview, basically just as a formality. And at the end of the
• 12:02
  interview, I'm like, so when can you start?
• 12:07
  Davina Frederick: We had to wait a few
• 12:09
  Unknown: months. I think I interviewed her in like, May,
• 12:11
  and she couldn't start until August. And so it was pretty
• 12:14
  rough. Because, I mean, I was busy. Like, I was really like,
• 12:20
  it was hard. So
• 12:22
  Davina Frederick: yeah, yeah. I and I mean, to me, like, like,
• 12:26
  the reason I wanted you to share that story is because I think so
• 12:29
  many people listening to this podcast will have experienced
• 12:34
  similar things where they may have tried to hire an associate,
• 12:37
  and it didn't work out. And sometimes people get so
• 12:39
  discouraged, and they kind of just think, well, this, I just
• 12:42
  need to, you know, I'm just gonna figure out something else,
• 12:45
  because I'm not gonna be able to hire anybody. And I know that
• 12:48
  there was a lot of that when you when I first you know, began
• 12:52
  talking about it. And it takes and then it takes sort of
• 12:56
  letting go of some of that and saying, Okay, well, if I were to
• 13:00
  hire an associate, what would that look like? And maybe I can,
• 13:03
  we really brainstorm, we are constantly sort of brainstorming
• 13:06
  on connections and people you could talk with and looking
• 13:09
  outside the state and all that and it and it all worked out
• 13:12
  really well, because this particular person was able to
• 13:16
  move back had a spouse who was willing to move, move back here
• 13:21
  and everything. So, you know, yay. Now you're on the search
• 13:24
  again, which is wonderful. And I just, you know, all of this so
• 13:28
  that people have a context to is that your revenue has been
• 13:32
  doubling and doubling and doubling
• 13:34
  Unknown: it. Yeah, it's been doubling I think, almost every
• 13:38
  year since I opened and obviously, I got to the point
• 13:44
  before pre Jenner, where I you had informed me that like, once
• 13:49
  I hit that number, I'm really can't do it alone anymore, which
• 13:54
  was apparent. And this year, we're, I think we're on track
• 14:01
  right now to be right at probably a million.
• 14:06
  Davina Frederick: Yeah, crossover that million.
• 14:07
  Unknown: That's why we need to person and we're also I also in
• 14:13
  buying a building, so we close in, in about four weeks. So
• 14:20
  Davina Frederick: that's wonderful. That's wonderful.
• 14:21
  Yeah, I think when we started you were probably around a
• 14:24
  quarter million to 300 are kind of in that range. And so it's
• 14:27
  been a lot of very rapid growth. And it's one of the things that
• 14:31
  you know, we did we have talks about a lot is that you, there's
• 14:35
  you there's only so far you can get yourself even with a really
• 14:38
  good team, depending on your practice areas, because there
• 14:42
  are only so many hours in a day and eventually you really need
• 14:45
  somebody else. And especially if you want I think one of the big
• 14:49
  wins for me I know was when you plan the vacation, and you
• 14:53
  actually left your firm and took your kids and your hubby and
• 14:57
  went to Cancun I think it was was Cancun or Tulum. Oh, yeah,
• 15:00
  we
• 15:01
  Unknown: went to Cancun in March. And then we actually just
• 15:04
  went to Denver for just a school shopping trip last week. And
• 15:08
  then my husband and I are going to Cancun again alone. Right
• 15:14
  around when we close on the new building, because that's when I
• 15:17
  like to leave town is when I close or move offices.
• 15:21
  Davina Frederick: So yeah, so and I hadn't gotten the hadn't
• 15:23
  gotten the update on the building. So you know, I
• 15:26
  Unknown: was, like, I hadn't been able to update you on that
• 15:30
  yet. But yeah, we were looking around, and we had something
• 15:33
  else in mind, but it wasn't going to work out. Because I
• 15:36
  need to move in order to hire another associate, I need to
• 15:39
  move. And so that's what's been holding me back because I do not
• 15:41
  have anywhere to put another associate here. I had an intern
• 15:45
  this summer. That was it was really nice to have an intern
• 15:48
  and he worked in the kitchen. I had to find a kitchen table for
• 15:52
  him.
• 15:53
  Davina Frederick: I remember being an intern and working in
• 15:55
  like a supply closet. So you know. Now, a lot of what I
• 16:01
  wanted to the reason I kind of wanted to interview at this
• 16:04
  particular time is because I've been discussing with a lot of
• 16:10
  you know, when I talk about wealthy woman lawyer, it doesn't
• 16:12
  just begin and end with your law firm. Because the idea is to get
• 16:16
  your law firm to a point where it is generating enough wealth
• 16:20
  for you to you to be able to have to also diversify your
• 16:24
  investments. So you're not just having this wealth generating
• 16:26
  law firm and this asset but you're also buying a building
• 16:29
  and having that asset and there are a lot of different things
• 16:33
  that people are doing to invest their wealth and you did
• 16:37
  something that was really kind of fun. And I think a lot of
• 16:41
  people enjoy hearing about it because you follow it you didn't
• 16:45
  do something else that was sort of the goal or a go vest you
• 16:49
  know you may have stuff in the stock market but what you did is
• 16:52
  you followed another passion and I took advantage of an
• 16:56
  opportunity came up so why don't you tell us about that business
• 16:59
  that you decide to invest in and why
• 17:03
  Unknown: I'm so in May ish. I my husband I bought a tanning
• 17:09
  salon. And actually it is the only tanning salon in Sheridan.
• 17:14
  So Wow. Yeah, so it's a little bit different because we don't
• 17:18
  have a million tanning salons here. We have one
• 17:22
  Davina Frederick: we bought it we got them everywhere. Plus
• 17:24
  we've got the beach in the sunshine and which
• 17:26
  Unknown: is ironic since you have the sun all the time.
• 17:30
  Davina Frederick: Yeah, right and you say I am and if you for
• 17:33
  those watching the video you'll see how pale I actually am as a
• 17:38
  native Floridian and you see that? Stacy's lovely tan because
• 17:43
  Right?
• 17:44
  Unknown: Right? I'm not normally this tan. But yeah, so I'm
• 17:49
  people think it's really weird at first, but um, I actually
• 17:54
  have always enjoyed tanning and it's like a stress reliever for
• 17:59
  me. And I have always kind of wanted to own a tanning salon.
• 18:04
  And I've always told my husband we should open a competing one
• 18:08
  here. And I had actually been looking at like places where we
• 18:13
  could do that or like chains that we could open things like
• 18:17
  that. And then all of a sudden I got information that the owners
• 18:23
  of this one were wanting to sell. So I got involved in that
• 18:29
  and we bought it
• 18:33
  Davina Frederick: so so what was that? So here you are busy law
• 18:37
  firm, your you know, you need another attorney? What was that
• 18:41
  like to decide? I'm gonna go ahead and buy another business.
• 18:48
  What kind of things did you feel like you need to have in place
• 18:51
  to be able to do that?
• 18:53
  Unknown: Well, um, they already had one employee who I knew from
• 18:59
  tanning there was there actually only employee other than
• 19:04
  themselves. They were there all the time they worked it. And so
• 19:08
  I knew she was very knowledgeable. Because I
• 19:12
  wouldn't be sitting waiting for the you know, bed that I wanted
• 19:14
  to use or whatever. And I would hear her talking to other
• 19:18
  customers about the tanning lotion. So different tanning
• 19:22
  beds, the spray tans because they do we do spray tans by
• 19:27
  hand. She does them. And so I knew she was an asset to the
• 19:34
  company and to the salon. And so we wanted her and she would be
• 19:40
  the person who would run it. And so we knew that that would be
• 19:44
  important because we obviously weren't going to be there all
• 19:47
  day every day. So we made that clear to her that she was going
• 19:52
  to be an asset to us and we were going to give her a raise
• 19:55
  because the old owners There, we had a lot of problems in the
• 20:03
  sale, it was very difficult things I don't understand. Were
• 20:09
  done by the old owners. As an attorney, I had to make some
• 20:15
  threats and do some things that I didn't want to do but had to
• 20:19
  do. And they were being difficult to our manager,
• 20:23
  because she was obviously staying with us. And so it was
• 20:27
  kind of like, behind the scenes discussions with her that like,
• 20:31
  just hang on, you know, you'll be taken care of, we'll give you
• 20:35
  a proper pay. And, you know, you won't be treated poorly anymore.
• 20:40
  So that has panned out to be a good thing. And she's here, and
• 20:45
  she can do literally anything we need her to do. She can like,
• 20:49
  you wire the beds, she it's insane.
• 20:53
  Davina Frederick: She's dying. Wow. Yeah, I think it's a, I
• 20:57
  think let's delve into that a little bit of what, because if
• 21:00
  people are thinking about buying a business, there are some
• 21:03
  things to think about. I know. When my husband and I, we sold a
• 21:09
  business, we sold a gym. And the people we sold the gym to we,
• 21:15
  they came from another country, and they were Australia, and
• 21:19
  they were kind of coming in on a visa, you know, buying a
• 21:22
  business and investing in a US company. And so they, you know,
• 21:29
  want to our business for that purpose. And we I think we
• 21:35
  didn't do enough due diligence when we were selling, because we
• 21:39
  were just ready to get rid of it and, you know, move on to other
• 21:42
  things. And it turned out to be a complicated, you know, that
• 21:48
  wound up with doing, you know, we're heading to litigation, and
• 21:52
  we wound up settling and all of that. And it wasn't anything
• 21:56
  that, of course, they accused us of everything they were every
• 22:00
  week, we would get some new accusation. And it got really
• 22:03
  nasty. But it was, you know, simply that they started, when
• 22:10
  they came here, they started unwinding the it was a married
• 22:15
  couple and one of the partners and the couple was not we found
• 22:20
  out she had some mental challenges and personality
• 22:24
  issues and stuff. And so a lot of stuff started getting kind of
• 22:28
  unraveling. And it's it's things that I do think if you are going
• 22:32
  to invest in buying a business, I do think you have to prepare
• 22:38
  yourself for other people not being who you think they are not
• 22:43
  having the same level of ethics that you have. And I would
• 22:48
  advise do a little bit more. I wish we had done more due
• 22:50
  diligence and got to know more about them. It's a little
• 22:53
  difficult because they were coming in from another country.
• 22:55
  But we probably could have done a little bit more. In your case,
• 22:59
  you actually knew these people ahead of time, but you probably
• 23:02
  didn't know some of the behind the scenes. You probably didn't
• 23:06
  know them that well. It's kind of like carrying somebody like,
• 23:11
  yeah,
• 23:13
  Unknown: yeah, I didn't know them, like well, but I knew
• 23:16
  about them. And I knew they weren't great people. And so I
• 23:21
  knew going in that they were probably going to try to do some
• 23:27
  things. I knew that we were paying too much. And um, it was
• 23:35
  just I by the end, I knew that they were going to take things
• 23:45
  out of the salon that they shouldn't. And I thought about a
• 23:49
  lot of things that I could do. I thought about not paying the
• 23:54
  full amount owed. Because we paid some earnest money
• 24:01
  essentially. The process took a lot longer than we anticipated.
• 24:07
  And they were kind of pushy about it. So we paid money up
• 24:13
  front a couple of times, and it was in the car, I drafted the
• 24:15
  contract. So are the purchase agreement. So I added that to it
• 24:21
  and we would sign it. But I thought about a lot of things.
• 24:26
  And then in the end I just thought I'm basically paying
• 24:30
  them to go away at this point, because they were moving and I
• 24:34
  just I didn't want to deal with it anymore. And I just wanted
• 24:39
  them to leave and I just wanted them gone and I didn't want to
• 24:44
  fight I didn't want I mean I I had threatened them a couple
• 24:48
  times. And I just didn't want to deal with that anymore. So
• 24:54
  Davina Frederick: just the value of your time. You know what I
• 24:55
  mean? Your time is worth in your law firm business. You're busy
• 25:00
  You've got things going on, and you got your kids and the
• 25:02
  husband and your husband and his new business venture. And so you
• 25:06
  kind of have to make choices at that point, is it worth it to
• 25:10
  the detriment of these other things? Great. That's kind of
• 25:13
  what we wound up deciding as well, which was interesting. I
• 25:16
  always find it interesting, because oftentimes, lawyers in
• 25:20
  our own handling of our own business, we tend to be more apt
• 25:26
  to sort of let some things go or whatever, because we sort of do
• 25:31
  the evaluation. And we know what it is like, if you actually get
• 25:35
  into a litigious situation, how how, you know, stressful, like,
• 25:41
  there's an emotional cost and a physical cost, and all of those
• 25:45
  things that go on when you get there. And so I find it's
• 25:48
  interesting, because I often find lawyers tend to be like,
• 25:52
  you know, I'll just write this off, right? And let this go. So
• 25:56
  looking back on that now, would you say, is there anything that
• 26:00
  you think you would do differently? Sort of going into
• 26:04
  it? Or do you feel like it sort of had to happen the way that
• 26:07
  all sort of happened,
• 26:09
  Unknown: you know, I think it's fine the way it happened, I
• 26:12
  maybe could have negotiated a lower price. But I think in the
• 26:19
  end, it's okay, we've really gone forward with we don't talk
• 26:24
  negatively about the old owners, they have a very negative
• 26:27
  reputation. We've gotten a lot of clients back who stopped
• 26:31
  coming because of the old owners. And they weren't
• 26:36
  comfortable there, particularly because of the the male owner,
• 26:42
  he made females very uncomfortable. So a lot of
• 26:45
  people have come back. And we've changed a whole lot of things.
• 26:49
  It's just a better feel, and better environment. And so, you
• 26:54
  know, we don't allow anyone to talk negatively, if people talk
• 26:57
  negatively about them to us, we don't engage in that kind of
• 27:02
  behavior. So I think if I had done something, I'm not paying
• 27:07
  them the full amount, um, really started more of an issue with
• 27:11
  them. I think it would have just fueled that negative and
• 27:15
  negativity, I guess, because they would have spread things
• 27:18
  about us. However, I've kind of kept a positive relationship, in
• 27:23
  their opinion. Um, I allow the female owner to tn for free. I
• 27:29
  told her she can I don't really care, whatever.
• 27:33
  Davina Frederick: Are they moving? I thought they were
• 27:35
  moving away did move.
• 27:37
  Unknown: But she comes back. She has a daycare in town still. And
• 27:40
  so she comes back occasionally. So it's rare that she's even
• 27:45
  here. She came in and bought a ton of our old inventory. That
• 27:50
  was like their inventory, but we discounted it because we wanted
• 27:54
  it out. And she bought like $1,200 worth of it. So I just
• 27:58
  I'm trying to keep things positive. And I think that's
• 28:01
  probably for the best because they're not probably maybe they
• 28:05
  are I don't know, I haven't heard anything about them, like
• 28:08
  trashing us or our salon. So that's probably it was probably
• 28:11
  a better choice.
• 28:12
  Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So how Now what kind of
• 28:18
  improvements have you made in the business because you've done
• 28:21
  I know, you've changed the name, you have a cute slogan, you've
• 28:24
  done all that you've kept this good employee, I saw where you
• 28:27
  were sort of looking for another employee, it looks like what
• 28:30
  other kinds of investments or kind of plans do you have for
• 28:34
  this business?
• 28:36
  Unknown: We completely repainted the entire inside. So we have
• 28:41
  like a front area that's like a little boutique area. And then
• 28:44
  we have 10 rooms. We have nine beds and one spray tan room. So
• 28:55
  we were painting for forever. Like ever. We were there all
• 29:05
  day, on an on Saturdays and Sundays for like four weeks, and
• 29:09
  we would take our kids and they would just wash their iPads. We
• 29:13
  pawn them off on their grandparents couple times. Um,
• 29:17
  yeah, it was a big thing. And we had some of our employees help
• 29:20
  and our manager helped a lot. We would be there late at night, I
• 29:26
  would go or my husband would go so we would just trade off. And
• 29:30
  I am
• 29:31
  Davina Frederick: very much yeah, I'm very much like let's
• 29:34
  see who we can pay to come paint those for me because I, my
• 29:37
  husband and I we will we bought our first house we were newly
• 29:40
  together, moving in together. We bought our first house and we
• 29:44
  start painting and it led to like a big argument over like
• 29:47
  our baby, like painting styles and getting upset and then he's
• 29:51
  like, let's just call somebody and have them come paint. And
• 29:54
  that always tends to work out for us. We've painted many, many
• 29:58
  things together since then. senses, houses. And we're a
• 30:03
  little bit more selective about what we paint and what we call
• 30:07
  other people debate for us, because that's a sure way to
• 30:11
  start trouble is, it's much harder than people think it is.
• 30:15
  Unknown: It's a big thing. Um, it was a lot. It took a lot of
• 30:19
  time, but it's done, um, looks better. It looks way better.
• 30:25
  We've just kind of changed some of the decor we've, like,
• 30:29
  recycled and redone some of the decor that was in there just to
• 30:33
  make it look better. We've changed it more to like a
• 30:35
  nautical theme. So it's more like the the walls are like a
• 30:40
  beige color, like, well, it's called perfect grade. It's what
• 30:44
  my house is. And then we have like white furniture with some
• 30:48
  Navy and things like that. I bought new tables for each of
• 30:52
  the rooms. Were buying new chairs, I bought new chairs for
• 30:56
  the boutique, because there was a couple real trashy ones,
• 31:01
  Davina Frederick: too, it sounds like you really are creating a
• 31:03
  little haven. You know, being in Wyoming. It's not, you're not
• 31:08
  close to the ocean. And so you're creating a little piece
• 31:12
  of the beach for those beach lovers in Wyoming who can't get
• 31:16
  away to the beach. But you can come here and feel like you're
• 31:18
  at the beach and yeah, get a tan and all of that.
• 31:21
  Unknown: Try. We also bought a new tanning bed. Oh, wow. So
• 31:26
  because one of our our most popular one, which is our
• 31:30
  there's different levels, and it's our highest level that we
• 31:33
  have right now. People were waiting, like 30 minutes for it.
• 31:36
  So we bought another one of those. And so we just finished
• 31:41
  getting it all set up and everything last week. So people
• 31:44
  are pretty excited about that. And then we have two more new
• 31:47
  beds on order that are higher quality, like higher level beds.
• 31:53
  They are not going to get here till about February though.
• 31:56
  Davina Frederick: Yeah, supply chain issues. I have no doubt.
• 31:59
  Yeah,
• 31:59
  Unknown: they're in German, they come from Germany. So it just
• 32:05
  Davina Frederick: let's talk numbers. And let's talk about
• 32:06
  the business aspect of this. Because I think, because I
• 32:09
  really want to focus on the and I know you don't hold your
• 32:13
  numbers, right, because we're going to talk about the business
• 32:16
  aspects. Because I know that that's, you know, that's kind of
• 32:19
  what I'm wanting to highlight for people is about sort of, you
• 32:22
  know, making investments and other things. So how much do you
• 32:25
  anticipate this will generate for you in revenue? In gross
• 32:30
  revenue? every year or every month? How are you going to do
• 32:33
  the numbers? Like how much do you? Do you have an idea of what
• 32:37
  what your expectation is for that?
• 32:40
  Unknown: The first couple of years, it's probably not going
• 32:42
  to generate anything, because we're having to pour so much
• 32:45
  money into it to redo it. And we had to take out a large loan. We
• 32:54
  had to take out extra to buy all the new bed or tanning beds.
• 33:03
  Because they're very expensive.
• 33:05
  Davina Frederick: Yeah, I imagine. Um,
• 33:07
  Unknown: so we, yeah, for the first couple years, it's
• 33:13
  probably not gonna make us anything. And that's fine.
• 33:15
  Because honestly, we needed to probably lose a little money,
• 33:19
  because of our situation with a law firm is
• 33:21
  Davina Frederick: making, right because you're making too much
• 33:23
  of a law firm. Yeah.
• 33:24
  Unknown: So we're, it's really fine. Honestly, if it makes, how
• 33:29
  we kind of went into it is like, if it makes us anything, it's
• 33:33
  like we're already making so much personally, that it's just
• 33:37
  like, extra that we're going to put into retirement or our kids
• 33:40
  college accounts or whatever, it's really not that big of a
• 33:43
  deal. But on our profit generators and things that we
• 33:48
  had to do for our business plans for our loan and everything. It
• 33:54
  was very difficult to figure out because the old owners lied on
• 34:00
  the numbers they gave us. Um, and we know that and our banker
• 34:06
  knew that. And he was honest, he told us that when we came in,
• 34:09
  and we're like, yeah, we know. Because it didn't make any
• 34:13
  sense. Their books didn't make any sense. So we're, we're
• 34:20
  unsure because of that. But based on what we think by the
• 34:26
  numbers that we've done with our accountant, and my mom who's an
• 34:30
  accountant. We think after the first couple of years, it'll
• 34:36
  probably be generating like, up to like 70,000 a year maybe even
• 34:42
  more, but that's honestly a total guess we're not really
• 34:45
  sure.
• 34:46
  Davina Frederick: I'm not really sure because you don't have any
• 34:47
  data to go by and you haven't started tracking your own. Do
• 34:51
  you need Did they have a like a POS system? Do they have some
• 34:55
  sort of system for Tani like software specifically for
• 34:59
  tanning that hell Yes, yes? Did they already have something? Or
• 35:02
  did you have to get something that are new?
• 35:05
  Unknown: So they had something, but the owner would delete
• 35:10
  everything out of it, because that's what they were lying
• 35:12
  about. Because he was pocketing cash and things like that.
• 35:17
  That's why the numbers are not correct. Because the year before
• 35:22
  we bought it, he had pocketed $70,000 of cash. And so it was
• 35:28
  not reported correctly. So
• 35:30
  Davina Frederick: he had sort of a I, he had sort of a tech
• 35:32
  strategy there some way say.
• 35:37
  Unknown: So yeah, the, the numbers aren't correct at all.
• 35:41
  It just doesn't make any sense. And also, they didn't run the
• 35:46
  salon efficiently. They were only using three of their 10, or
• 35:50
  their nine rooms. And they also didn't keep their beds up to
• 35:55
  date. Like the lamps in the beds had not been changed for the
• 35:58
  whole three years. They hit on the salon. It was pretty. Yeah,
• 36:03
  they weren't they were rolling back hours on the beds and
• 36:06
  things like that. It was not. Yeah, it was wow, they were
• 36:10
  lying a lot. So.
• 36:12
  Davina Frederick: But when you do it all over again, if you if
• 36:14
  you knowing all of this, knowing you, if I knew was
• 36:20
  Unknown: the manager told me those things. Because we've
• 36:24
  gotten it all up to speed and like the clients know those
• 36:30
  things, because we had to say we had to change all the bulbs and
• 36:33
  people were like, I just don't feel like I'm getting tan. And
• 36:37
  that's because the bolts haven't been changed in three years.
• 36:40
  Just wait. I mean, really, if it's, if it's running properly,
• 36:45
  and everything's been maintained. It's really just
• 36:50
  like a cash cow. Because people I mean, even all summer, when
• 36:53
  we've been, you know, 100 plus degrees, we've still had at
• 36:57
  least 15 to 18 clients training a day. And summers the slow
• 37:03
  time, in the winter, we'll have like 40 to 60 people a day. So
• 37:09
  imagine,
• 37:09
  Davina Frederick: I would imagine that also helped, like,
• 37:11
  when you live in a colder climate where it's snows,
• 37:15
  shorter days, and all the dark, you know, that there's probably
• 37:18
  a lot of people who tan there for the vitamin D, or like,
• 37:23
  yeah, the vitamin D for the lights to help with depression
• 37:26
  and things like that. So it goes beyond sort of, you know, just
• 37:31
  how you you like the look of a tan or how you're going to look
• 37:33
  at the beach, when you go and goes, it's really more of that
• 37:37
  as well. So
• 37:39
  Unknown: have a red light bed, which people are loving. So, um,
• 37:44
  it's, you know, rehabilitative. And since my husband's a
• 37:47
  physical therapist, he's also pushing it with his people, too.
• 37:50
  So that's pretty popular, also, that it's the only red light but
• 37:54
  in Sheridan,
• 37:56
  Davina Frederick: wow, we have we actually have our own red
• 37:58
  light. Here, my husband does that all the time. Because it
• 38:04
  really helps with it doesn't have harmful rays, but it really
• 38:07
  helps with the, you know, mental, your mental state. And
• 38:11
  all of that does many other things for you. So very
• 38:15
  interesting. So what I
• 38:17
  Unknown: do it all again. Yeah, yet to be seen. One of the
• 38:22
  challenges is the employees because I went from my three
• 38:27
  employees here to also having one at one point earlier this
• 38:34
  summer. I had six employees there. So it's a lot. And my
• 38:41
  manager is a difficult person for people to get along with. So
• 38:46
  I've been working with her on that. She gets along with me.
• 38:49
  Okay, I can talk to her.
• 38:52
  Davina Frederick: He's the one who's so great at doing
• 38:54
  everything. Yeah. She's not a people person.
• 38:57
  Unknown: And it's because she has been by herself for years
• 39:00
  and years and years. She hasn't had to work with anyone. Um,
• 39:05
  Davina Frederick: so that's one of the things you did was hire a
• 39:07
  number of employees you staffed up.
• 39:10
  Unknown: I hired. I mean, we had to because she was working like
• 39:18
  104 hours a week. I mean, it was nuts. Um, but I hired
• 39:27
  Davina Frederick: like five
• 39:28
  Unknown: additional people, five or Yeah, five additional people
• 39:32
  at one point, and a few of them left for college. One quit
• 39:38
  because of working with my manager. But she wasn't a
• 39:43
  stellar employee anyways. So yeah, right now I have four
• 39:50
  employees and I'm hiring for one employee.
• 39:54
  Davina Frederick: So that really also thrust him you've been
• 39:57
  managing people with a law firm, but you've had kind of a small
• 40:02
  team at the law firm, and you've known them really well, and that
• 40:06
  kind of thing. And so did this has this really challenged you
• 40:09
  from a management standpoint? And really learning how to be a
• 40:15
  better manager and a good manager? And all of that?
• 40:17
  Because I don't, you haven't had that you've had some challenges
• 40:23
  in the law firm. But was there a difference?
• 40:28
  Unknown: Hmm, I mean, I used to be when I was younger, like, in
• 40:31
  college, I used to be a manager of a restaurant. Um, so I'm kind
• 40:35
  of used to it. It's been a while. Um, but I would say that
• 40:42
  back then I wasn't as mature as I am now. So it was more. Now
• 40:50
  I'm just better at dealing with people. And so I'm trying to
• 40:54
  teach that to my manager. Um, and so, and like, in my
• 41:00
  husband's I can't, he can't deal, she doesn't get along with
• 41:06
  him well, which is funny, because he gets along with
• 41:09
  everybody. He's super passive, and like, doesn't ever have any
• 41:13
  issues with anyone. And I don't know if it's because she didn't
• 41:16
  get along with the male owner previously, because he was very
• 41:20
  mean to her. And so I don't know if that's just like sticking
• 41:23
  with that. And so I have to deal with everything. But I also
• 41:28
  create the schedules, and I post them on an app. So like, I have
• 41:31
  to remember to do that. And, yeah, and I do the payroll, and
• 41:38
  all of those things. So I'm really
• 41:39
  Davina Frederick: adding all of these things to your plate. And
• 41:43
  on top of all you're doing with your law firm. And of course,
• 41:46
  you know, what I'm going to say to you is maybe getting some of
• 41:50
  those things off our plate.
• 41:53
  Unknown: Yeah, I'm just trying to get my manager kind of under
• 41:57
  control. And we've had to be dealing with so many other
• 42:00
  things like getting the, you know, new bed installed and
• 42:04
  getting another one working and then getting something else
• 42:06
  done. And I kind of want her dealing with that, rather than
• 42:09
  worrying about something else. Because I can't do those things.
• 42:14
  And we don't have anybody here close enough to fix those kinds
• 42:17
  of things, we have to fly someone in. And so you know, I
• 42:22
  just usually post the schedule, like four weeks at a time, I
• 42:26
  found a really awesome app for it. And so I love that. And
• 42:32
  then, you know, the I do payroll for the firm anyways. So it's
• 42:37
  not a big deal to do payroll for them. Because the software that
• 42:43
  we do use for the tanning program and everything. That's
• 42:46
  where they clock in and out. And it gives me all of that. But
• 42:51
  yeah, I mean, it's a lot. And, you know, we haven't mentioned,
• 42:55
  I also have another full time law job as well. So yeah, that
• 43:00
  is a lot. But yeah, that's why I'm hiring another associate so
• 43:03
  that maybe I don't have to do as much
• 43:05
  Davina Frederick: stuff. Yeah, I do think that is the I do think
• 43:08
  that is one of the challenges of entrepreneur or, you know,
• 43:14
  people who are very entrepreneurial, is that we, we
• 43:18
  love the idea of having multiple businesses and doing because we
• 43:21
  have visions, and you know, the passions for different things.
• 43:26
  And But oftentimes, especially when you're starting out, it can
• 43:31
  be really time intensive for you, when you're starting out,
• 43:36
  even if your vision is one day for it to sort of run by itself
• 43:40
  or run pretty much hands off. Initially. And also in this
• 43:45
  case, when you've got an existing staff and you have to
• 43:48
  turn, you know, turnover and change the way you're doing
• 43:52
  things and stuff like that there is some transition period. So
• 43:55
  what advice would you have for somebody who's considering, you
• 43:59
  know, they're running their law firm, they're making enough
• 44:00
  money now and they want to buy another business? What advice
• 44:03
  would you have for them?
• 44:08
  Unknown: Um, well, when you said that, it is a lot of time
• 44:13
  involved. Do you think it's not going to be but it is. Um, I
• 44:18
  mean, everybody told me that, like, I was talking with my CPA
• 44:21
  before we bought it and he's like, Well, if you think it's
• 44:24
  gonna be X amount of hours, it's gonna be like five times that
• 44:27
  and I was like, yeah, no, that's fine. And I mean, I it has been
• 44:31
  fine. We do spend a lot of time there. Um, but you know, I don't
• 44:37
  mind because I like to be busy and I like to work and it's
• 44:42
  okay.
• 44:44
  Davina Frederick: Do you think that is one of the things for
• 44:47
  anybody who knows, you know, that you really love to work
• 44:51
  almost to the point of maybe workaholic a little bit. But you
• 44:54
  really love you really love to work and and, you know, not
• 44:59
  everybody does a lot of other Do people have a vision for, I want
• 45:02
  to step away from this and work as little as possible and travel
• 45:05
  a whole lot. But I think where you are right now you really
• 45:09
  enjoy it, which is why you're still so active in your practice
• 45:13
  as well, because you could turn away work, you could work less
• 45:16
  you have an attorney to take things, you know, there are
• 45:18
  those kind of, you can choose not to do this other law job
• 45:21
  that you do. But I think everything that you do is
• 45:24
  because you really enjoy it. And like doing the work. And with
• 45:29
  this particular thing, I think, again, it's a passion. It's a
• 45:33
  little bit of a passion project for you, because you love to tan
• 45:35
  and you love everything around the tanning business. And it's
• 45:38
  something it's sort of been a dream of yours for a while,
• 45:41
  which probably makes it easier in the beginning sort of put in
• 45:46
  that extra. Okay, we're gonna be up till midnight painting,
• 45:49
  because there's a lot of enthusiasm and excitement around
• 45:53
  it. Whereas five years from now, you may look at that
• 45:57
  differently. You may be like, No, we have to, like, have
• 45:59
  people keep us up, right?
• 46:01
  Unknown: Yeah. And I think I mean, I like to travel too. But
• 46:08
  you know, I'm, I'm just 32. So I guess I just feel like right
• 46:13
  now, that's not really what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm not
• 46:17
  supposed to be just off gallivanting around, you know,
• 46:21
  this is kind of how I'm supposed to work right now. Because I'm
• 46:24
  32. And that's what I'm supposed to be doing. And so I'm like
• 46:28
  building all of these things right now to generate enough to
• 46:33
  have put away and in proper places or, you know, invest in
• 46:38
  and whatnot. So that whenever I am a bit older, and my kids
• 46:43
  aren't little than I can do that I can travel and I can do
• 46:49
  whatever I need to. Because I don't know, I'm just young at
• 46:54
  this point. And my kids are so little, you know, I'm one not
• 46:58
  going to travel a lot without them. Because I just won't
• 47:02
  because they miss us. And I got a week, five days about it. Cuz
• 47:06
  then they're sad. And I'm sad, because I miss them, too, you
• 47:11
  know, it's difficult to take them places because there's so
• 47:14
  little, you know, about four hours on the plane with Max.
• 47:19
  Davina Frederick: Yeah.
• 47:22
  Unknown: Yeah, we're not going to be doing a lot of traveling.
• 47:24
  So, you know, I just think that I'm pretty much just building to
• 47:30
  the point where that's going to be what we do. And we can go on
• 47:35
  trips and things. So, you know, I've talked to you about it,
• 47:39
  too, that it we're just kind of getting that point where we're
• 47:43
  like, wow, that's a lot in our bank account. Mmm, hmm. Okay, so
• 47:50
  what do we do with that? Like the building that I'm buying? I
• 47:55
  am putting, you know, over 100,000 down on it. And that's
• 47:59
  fine. I am just going to pay cash. And that's great.
• 48:03
  Davina Frederick: Wow, wow, how fantastic that is? Yes, it is.
• 48:07
  But it's also like rethinking if you if you didn't have money
• 48:11
  before, and then you're doing these things and you're getting
• 48:13
  money. There is that feeling of okay, what do I Okay, what do I
• 48:18
  do now, because then you have to figure out the best thing to do
• 48:21
  with that money and also have tax strategy and all of that as
• 48:24
  well. So there's a learning curve to all of that. And, you
• 48:28
  know, to your point about being 30, you know, in your 30s, I
• 48:31
  remember when I was in my 30s, I worked seven days a week. I
• 48:34
  mean, I loved it, but I also and I, all my friends were at work,
• 48:37
  and we hung out together, and we hung out together after work.
• 48:40
  And there was a lot of that. That was my life. Of course, I
• 48:45
  still work a lot now. But it's also because I love and enjoy
• 48:48
  work. But I do have a lot more I do take a lot more time off now
• 48:53
  than I used to when I was at that age, because that was sort
• 48:58
  of the foundation, you know, of your future and all of that. And
• 49:02
  you having kids, I'm sure that figures a lot into your thinking
• 49:07
  is also, you know, creating that generational wealth and
• 49:11
  preparing them for their future and all those advantages you
• 49:14
  want them to have. And that kind of thing goes into it. As long
• 49:18
  as you get the energy and the stamina and you love doing it.
• 49:20
  Hey, go for it. Get to be 57 Have as much stamina as you used
• 49:25
  to.
• 49:25
  Unknown: Yeah, no, no, I'm not doing this whenever I'm not.
• 49:31
  Davina Frederick: You say that? Oh, let me we'll see how that
• 49:34
  is.
• 49:34
  Unknown: I'm not going to be one of those attorneys that I have
• 49:36
  to force her entire that's not me.
• 49:40
  Davina Frederick: No, good, good. Well, Stacey, I'm enjoying
• 49:43
  this conversation and it's great to catch up with you because you
• 49:45
  and I are overdue for a catch up which we're on the books soon
• 49:47
  for so, um, but I'm really excited that you shared your
• 49:52
  experience of buying a business because I know a lot of people
• 49:56
  have these sort of ideas in their mind and I'm you know,
• 49:59
  it'll Be not only I think there'll be an encouragement
• 50:02
  factor for people, but also, you know, some things to think about
• 50:07
  before they go into buying another business. And also, just
• 50:14
  what life has been like for you over the last couple of years
• 50:19
  with going, you know, from a quarter million to a million,
• 50:25
  you know, that's huge. That's huge. And what a life changing
• 50:28
  sort of thing, it gives you a lot more options, and let you go
• 50:31
  down some more exciting kind of paths, adventures, you know,
• 50:35
  right. So, thanks so much. Why don't you tell us where we can
• 50:38
  connect with you, if anybody wants to reach out to you and,
• 50:41
  you know, just connect with you. Maybe somebody wants to apply
• 50:44
  for that job. And sort of Wyoming is gorgeous, as somebody
• 50:48
  who just went out, I was just out in that in that area, and
• 50:51
  it's so beautiful out there. So um, information? Yeah,
• 50:57
  Unknown: well, I'm on Facebook, just my name, Stacy. Qurban, no
• 51:02
  E in the first name, and then K I R, V as in Victor, E. N. And
• 51:09
  then my email is just Stacy, Kern, Kervin. Law wipo.com.
• 51:17
  Those are the best ways to reach me.
• 51:19
  Davina Frederick: And that's your web address, then.
• 51:23
  Unknown: That's my email. And then my website, your
• 51:26
  Davina Frederick: web address is the extension of your email. My
• 51:31
  website? Yeah, your website.
• 51:35
  Unknown: My website is just www dot Qurban. Law. who.com.
• 51:42
  Davina Frederick: Right. That's I'm saying if they wrote your
• 51:43
  email to that, it's probably your website URL on the
• 51:47
  extension of that. So yeah. Although some people do things
• 51:51
  differently, you know, Gmail still, which just makes my skin
• 51:55
  crawl. But anyway,
• 51:57
  Unknown: that's my tanning salons email. Oh, you
• 52:00
  Davina Frederick: know, you need to change it. You need to change
• 52:02
  it again. All right, my friend. I will talk to you soon. Thanks
• 52:05
  so much for being here. Yep.
• 52:06
  Unknown: Thank you.