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I Rolled My Truck Into a Ditch : I Quit Drinking — Then Gambling Took Everything · Recovering Out Loud

• 0:01
  Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the
• 0:04
  show where we get real about mental health and addiction.
• 0:08
  If you or someone you love is struggling, please reach out to
• 0:11
  me on any social media platform. At Recovering Out Loud Pod, you
• 0:16
  are no longer alone. Yeah, so that's, I want to hear
• 0:35
  about that because I haven't had any.
• 0:36
  You're the first person in here to talk gambling and I've been
• 0:40
  getting a lot of messages about it.
• 0:42
  I get a lot of people that are struggling with gambling.
• 0:45
  It's such a tough one, man, because.
• 0:47
  It's a silent killer. It's a silent killer.
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  It's a perfect way to put it. It's like I no one really knows
• 0:52
  that things are are going South the way, you know, say, I don't
• 0:56
  know, smoking meth does, right? I'm not tweaking out in front of
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  people when I'm gambling. My friend Louis would say, I
• 1:02
  have a I'm sorry, Lewis. He goes by.
• 1:06
  I have an episode coming up with him in February.
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  But he one thing he says is like, like he could be sitting
• 1:12
  here like after snorting oxies and like drinking a bunch of
• 1:15
  vodka, right. And you're, you're going to be
• 1:17
  saying like, like, what are you OK, Like what's wrong with you?
• 1:19
  Right. But if you're sitting here and
• 1:21
  you, you could have your life savings on the Yankees, no one's
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  going to know, right? And like he put that into really
• 1:27
  good words. So I just wanted to kind of
• 1:29
  quote him. But the way I think of it is
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  like, like, unless someone's seen your, your pay stub or
• 1:35
  sure, your like, what's the thing?
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  Credit card statement. Yes, unless they're senior
• 1:40
  statements, like, or your bank history and stuff.
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  Like no one's going to know unless, until it gets real bad,
• 1:45
  right? Until it's like too late.
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  And that's how it was for me, right?
• 1:48
  I don't know if like you got to do an intro or anything or are
• 1:51
  we good to? Just no, I mean, I'm gonna I've
• 1:54
  I probably just just tell us about yourself and.
• 1:58
  Yeah. So for those that don't know,
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  I'm Logan. I'm from small town in Ontario,
• 2:03
  just three hours from Toronto. I think you said it would be
• 2:07
  east from here, right? WW from here it's called Chatham
• 2:11
  Kent and yeah I grew up playing travel sports had decent grades
• 2:18
  wasn't really that big into you know like I wasn't getting in
• 2:22
  trouble with the cops or like I was fairly good kid but very
• 2:27
  ADHD. So, you know, what comes with
• 2:29
  that, you know, bouncing off the walls often had a hard time
• 2:34
  following rules, but I always had good intentions, you know,
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  and I, you know, drinking was always, I'm sure it is like in a
• 2:46
  lot of small towns in Ontario. It's just like, and especially
• 2:49
  as a hockey player, just the kind of the cultures, the norm.
• 2:53
  You see all the parents doing it at tournaments growing up, what
• 2:57
  not right. So it's I was very much like
• 3:00
  excited, looking forward to that.
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  I never saw it as like a like this like I had, I'd seen some
• 3:06
  family members struggle with it a little bit, but like I didn't,
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  I didn't really see it as that. Like from the beginning it was
• 3:13
  just like to have fun, right? And yeah, alcohol kind of
• 3:18
  stripped everything from me. And then I got clean and sober
• 3:23
  from that. It was not easy, but.
• 3:26
  And then I started gambling. Did you go to rehab?
• 3:29
  Yeah, I went to and I think it was 19 day, ended up being 19
• 3:33
  days. I think it was supposed to be
• 3:34
  21, but I went in December 2022. I don't know if you remember,
• 3:40
  you're from Toronto, right? So do you remember how bad the
• 3:42
  weather was like a couple years ago around Christmas?
• 3:44
  Yeah, Yeah, there was like 20 or 30.
• 3:47
  Yes, I do remember because. We were going to go nowhere.
• 3:50
  We were coming home from Kingston where my in laws are
• 3:53
  from and we counted 24 flipped car or abandoned cars on the
• 3:58
  four O 1. So it was supposed to be 21
• 4:00
  days, but when I went, they let us out after 19 because like it
• 4:04
  was, I went in December first or something like that.
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  So they let us out so that we would be able to go see our
• 4:10
  families for Christmas, 'cause they were, they were scared like
• 4:12
  there's a big snowstorm coming and they were scared that like
• 4:15
  our families wouldn't be able to come get us 'cause like some
• 4:18
  people were driving hours away, right.
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  And like the last day or two is you work at a rehab.
• 4:24
  So it's, it's typically just like like commencing and kind of
• 4:28
  telling you it once. They didn't let us leave without
• 4:30
  a set plan, but like the last day or two they said I was just
• 4:34
  going to be kind of like, you know, one on ones.
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  Like it was not. We had already done most of the
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  booklet or whatever, like all the curriculum.
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  So they just let us out one or two days early.
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  But yeah, it took, there's a lot of resistance to go to rehab
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  both times. I went for gambling as well, but
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  yeah, I did not. It was like the last thing I
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  wanted to do both times 'cause I was like I was 17 when I went
• 4:59
  for a while. That's tough, dude.
• 5:02
  Yeah, at the at the time I don't like, I don't quote me now, but
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  at the time I had set the record for youngest person to go
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  through there and that place has been open for a long time.
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  I went to Westover Treatment Center in Thamesville.
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  It was a great program, great counselors and like yourself,
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  like I find I've always had like, I don't know, I I work in
• 5:25
  the blue collar industry. So like it's never seemed
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  realistic to me, but I've always kind of wanted to, you know, in
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  the meantime with my extra time working in rehab if I can,
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  because I enjoy helping people. And honestly, like since I got
• 5:37
  sober, my passion for always getting that next drink or bet
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  it'll be like, honestly, like, thank God it like you know how
• 5:45
  the, the obsession leaves you. It's like almost flipped.
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  It didn't leave it like flipped to like now wanting to like help
• 5:52
  people learn more about it. And like, like, now I'm not
• 5:55
  ashamed of this at all. I, I was in the beginning, but
• 5:58
  we can talk a little bit about a little bit about that.
• 6:01
  But yeah, it's kind of just a little.
• 6:07
  So what happened? So you went to your first rehab
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  at 17? Yeah.
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  What was the moment where you finally waved the white flag,
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  'cause I went at 23, my first rehab, I was 23.
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  And I remember how hard that. Was so for me it was like I, I
• 6:19
  was 17 years old, right And at this point I'm already like my
• 6:24
  liver's like already like on its way to failure.
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  I'm in the hospital every weekend.
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  You know, I'm I had I was a daily drinker for over a year
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  straight. Like I couldn't remember the
• 6:36
  last time I was sober and it wasn't just beers like I was on
• 6:39
  her liquor. I was past the beers like I
• 6:42
  didn't want to get bloated, right, Like I didn't I was a
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  true alcoholic. And you know, like I just kind
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  of got tired of waking up and and wondering where the bottle
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  was hidden and who I had to apologize to what I did because
• 6:57
  I did not remember. And you know, like when I tell
• 7:02
  people this, most people would think like, you know, like this
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  would be the that waving that waving flag moment you're
• 7:07
  talking about. But October or no, So August
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  28th, 2022, I was leaving hockey tryouts and I was trying out for
• 7:18
  the junior C team, right. And things were pretty rocky at
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  this time. I was like getting in like I
• 7:25
  was, I'd already graduated or no, I hadn't graduated yet.
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  So I was kind of like I was drinking a lot at this point and
• 7:34
  I was hiding it really well. I was like the kind of kid that
• 7:37
  like, like I said, you know, I had decent grades.
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  Like I had mid 70s, eighties, like, but my sister was really
• 7:44
  high up there. So I was like, I always
• 7:46
  struggled with that. Like saying that I didn't have
• 7:50
  good grades, but I don't know. I had like seventies, 80s.
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  Like I said, I had 2-3 jobs at all times.
• 7:56
  Like from 13 years old, I started like in the cornfields,
• 7:59
  like, and then I started a Canadian Tire.
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  And like you said, I've always had that spending issue.
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  So I've always had like before alcohol and drugs, like I always
• 8:11
  kind of, I never could save any money.
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  I've always had three jobs and or two jobs at least and never
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  saved money. But I remember like thinking
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  like, OK, as long as everything looks good, like everybody
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  thought everything was all right, right.
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  I had a girlfriend. I had like driving the car to
• 8:31
  work, whatever, like everything. It's playing hockey, travel,
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  sports, school sports too. And it was just like on that day
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  I was leaving hockey tryouts, my car got broken into.
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  And I remember being like all upset, right, 'cause this
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  necklace that my girlfriend gave me from her father that passed
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  away a couple years ago, I was wearing it and I never took it
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  off for anything. And I just out of respect, I
• 9:02
  didn't want it to break during tryouts.
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  So I took it off and I put it in my cup holder, right?
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  And I come back and my like, my car's not even, like the door's
• 9:11
  not even latched. It's just like, so I like
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  already knew I opened the door, my wallet's gone, the necklace
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  like everything's gone. And I'm like still searching for
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  it, thinking it might be there somewhere.
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  And I go in, tell the guy, Long story short, I was going to go
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  home and just try and figure it all out.
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  And then what happened was this guy from the arena called me
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  telling me, oh, we see the guy on camera, right?
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  And I'm like already halfway home.
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  So I call my dad, tell him. And he's like, Oh well, I'm I'm
• 9:46
  with so and so, like, you should just come here and we'll help
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  you figure it out. And he was at a buddy's house
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  that is kind of a heck. And like, they're riding dirt
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  bikes, shooting guns and drinking beers.
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  And first thing he says to me when I get there, you can't
• 10:03
  drink or, you know, you can't drink, right?
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  And I'm like, this is my answer. I say.
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  I look at him and say, like, what do you think I'm stupid?
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  Like, I'm driving like, I'm not going to drink.
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  And we start trying to figure out the like the police report
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  for my car. And we get all that figured out.
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  And he says again, he's going to leave, right?
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  And I'm hanging out with a couple of the guys and they're
• 10:28
  they're all old enough. They're all like 25, whatever.
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  So no one's going to tell them what to do, right?
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  And I remember he's leaving. He's like, hurry, I'm, I'm
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  heading home. Like I'll be like, yeah, I'm
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  right behind you. He's like, you know, you can't
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  drink, right? He said it again.
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  And so at this point, I'm drinking all the time.
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  And I'm like, I was getting a little mad at him.
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  I'm like, I said it snappy. I'm like, like, I'm not going to
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  drink. Like I'm driving.
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  Like, like seriously. When then he left and within 10
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  minutes, I had two beers already.
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  And that was supposed to be it. Like that was just to cut the
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  edge off, right? Because I'm at this point, like
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  I said, a daily drinker. And like, that was supposed to
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  be it. And I remember walking in to go
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  to the bathroom and walk past the liquor cabinet and it was
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  like one of those just it wasn't even a cabinet.
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  It was just like an open bar kind of thing.
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  And there was just like bottles, man of like, and I was a Jack
• 11:21
  Daniels guy. So there was like bottles and,
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  and I'm telling you, I don't know what they call them.
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  I wasn't. Was it 60's?
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  The bigger ones? What's bigger than A2 for?
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  One point something liters. Yeah, So like there was a bunch
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  of those and like, they're all like just barely open, right?
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  So I'm like, no one's going to know if I take a swag, right?
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  And I was a liquor guy, right? So take a swag and you start
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  feeling good. And like I said, that's supposed
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  to be it. And you know how it is
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  Alcoholics, you get start feeling good.
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  You want to feel better, go back for more.
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  And that's the last thing I remember.
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  And the next thing I remember is trying to pull my arms apart and
• 12:00
  realizing like these cuffs are like not coming off like This is
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  why is this hurt? This is not a dream like and I
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  start hearing voices, the cops talking and I'm like, Oh my like
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  this is real like and then black out again.
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  Don't remember anything else. And so next day I wake up and
• 12:19
  it's like hearing everything right.
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  Like I, I ended up leaving someone's house, getting pulling
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  into a gas station that was like 2 or 3 minutes away.
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  Took me 45 minutes to get there and I ended up rolling the Jeep
• 12:38
  kept driving. Then I pulled into the gas
• 12:41
  station, went into like I fell out of the Jeep, went into like
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  order food or something like I didn't even pump gas and she
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  like took my keys because she knew I was drunk.
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  So she like saved my life today. I know that like God used her to
• 12:56
  save my life, right? And like I'm thankful that for
• 12:59
  that today and like I just know that like I shouldn't even be
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  alive right now. Like I blew three times the
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  legal limit. Don't remember a second of it
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  rolled a car kept driving like there was gravel marks like on
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  top. I was on a gravel road and there
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  were scratches all over the top of the car.
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  Like I don't, you would think you would remember if you rolled
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  a car right? And like the frames like bent
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  and like, I'm like, I wake up and they're like asking me like,
• 13:28
  like where did you go? Like you must have.
• 13:30
  And I'm like lying like I didn't drink.
• 13:32
  I didn't drink while I was there.
• 13:33
  I'm trying to tell them like some made-up lie that like, oh,
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  I was drinking before, like, 'cause I didn't want to admit
• 13:38
  that I had stolen this person's alcohol, right?
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  And. That ego comes in right.
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  I'm like, I'm like, I just rolled a car, got arrested and
• 13:47
  I'm worried about telling them that I.
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  Stole someone's. Liquor, yeah, man like so
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  forever. And it like for the longest time
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  like it was the most complicated story, right.
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  And eventually, like, so that happened in August and I, I kept
• 14:02
  drinking like after that. And this is like in the middle
• 14:06
  of school week, like I just go to school the next day, like
• 14:10
  nothing happened, right? My parents like forced me.
• 14:13
  I got there not letting me miss school, right?
• 14:16
  And I got to like put on that mask and pretend like
• 14:20
  everything's OK, like I had been for the last two years.
• 14:23
  And but at this time it was like a lot harder.
• 14:25
  And cause the girlfriends like finally like going to leave this
• 14:30
  time 'cause like you're really screwed up.
• 14:32
  And like, she was my person. Like, I met her in grade 8, and
• 14:39
  this was grade 10, I think close to grade 11.
• 14:42
  And like, I remember just like everything that my parents said
• 14:47
  was going to happen started happening.
• 14:49
  Like, I lost my license and as a result of that, had to give up
• 14:53
  hockey and lacrosse because, like, I played out of town.
• 14:56
  How am I going to ask my dad to drive me all the time, Right.
• 14:59
  And And then, yeah, like I was already, I was driving to school
• 15:07
  everyday, driving to hockey. So like, I lost that privilege,
• 15:10
  lost the ability to go drive to my girlfriend's, which she lived
• 15:14
  like over 30 minutes away. So like every time we wanted to
• 15:17
  hang out, it was either girlfriends becoming to pick you
• 15:20
  up or, you know, she's doing all the driving or having to ask my
• 15:24
  parents again at 1718 years old. And but to go back to the
• 15:30
  drinking, it was just like, even that didn't stop me, man.
• 15:33
  Like I did that. And I remember I kept drinking
• 15:36
  like livers, like screaming at me.
• 15:39
  Like I'm wondering why, Like, what's the problem here?
• 15:42
  I'm going in for like for CT scans, all this stuff,
• 15:45
  wondering. And I'm not telling them that
• 15:47
  I'm drinking this much, right? So they're like looking at my
• 15:49
  appendix trying to figure out what's wrong, right?
• 15:52
  And I just remember I kept drinking, kept drinking.
• 15:57
  And then the final thing that really got me was I woke up and
• 16:02
  my mom's like you, you better apologize to your aunt.
• 16:06
  And I'm like, like, genuinely, I'm like for what?
• 16:10
  I had no clue, like not a single clue of what I did.
• 16:14
  And I remember she told me and it was my, it was somebody in my
• 16:20
  family's birthday. And like, I had showed up to the
• 16:23
  family gathering and I was sober when I got there and not sober
• 16:28
  when I left. And come to find out like that
• 16:32
  they had taken pictures of the liquor before I got there versus
• 16:35
  when after I got there, I got 17.
• 16:37
  They're doing this kind of stuff.
• 16:38
  And I'm like, is this all just like clicked in my head?
• 16:41
  I'm like, OK, like she I guess she would always throw it in
• 16:45
  like my mom like works in the mental health and addictions.
• 16:52
  So she would always throw in like, do you want to like, do
• 16:54
  you think it's time to go to detox?
• 16:56
  Like I think you should go. And I'm like, every time I'm
• 16:59
  just like, no. And this time when she said it,
• 17:01
  I was just like, OK, like, because I was like not
• 17:05
  remembering what I had to apologize for.
• 17:07
  That wasn't like a, like a irregular thing, like that was
• 17:12
  normal. Like there's like so many scars
• 17:14
  I have on my body that like, I don't even remember what they're
• 17:16
  from. And I had to like lie and cut
• 17:19
  and like keep lying and lying and lying 'cause my life's made
• 17:21
  no sense, right? And I just kind of got tired of
• 17:25
  running, I guess you could say. And I like I guess I wasn't
• 17:29
  really sat on quitting. I was just like, if this is
• 17:33
  going to get you to stop like sobbing and telling me that I
• 17:36
  need to, then then sure, I'll go.
• 17:39
  And I just started like packing my stuff, right And I.
• 17:43
  I think a lot of people, I shouldn't say a lot of people
• 17:46
  myself, definitely. I've been to rehab three times,
• 17:49
  and all three times it was to get the heat off originally,
• 17:53
  right? I think a lot of people start
• 17:55
  with external certain. I'm gonna lose my marriage.
• 17:58
  I'm gonna lose my That was my it.
• 17:59
  Wasn't for me in the beginning. Yeah, and it and it, I think
• 18:02
  it's OK if that gets you in the door.
• 18:04
  But at some point I had to make that.
• 18:08
  This is for me now, right? And So what was that moment for
• 18:11
  you? So when I was sitting in detox,
• 18:12
  right? And I'm a Christian.
• 18:16
  So like when I talk about this, I say this is like when God like
• 18:20
  made it real to me the first time I heard his voice.
• 18:23
  Like I was coming inside from like a smoke break outside,
• 18:27
  'cause I vape and that's like my last crutch.
• 18:30
  I'm trying to get off of it but I was coming inside and like my
• 18:36
  high school was right across from the details.
• 18:38
  Oh boy. Right.
• 18:40
  So and they like there was complaints about it because like
• 18:45
  other people had struggled with this where it's on a busy road,
• 18:47
  right? And like, it's supposed to be
• 18:51
  confidential that you're there, right?
• 18:53
  And I'm walking outside and I see a group of my friends
• 18:57
  walking down the street to the pizza shop.
• 18:59
  And I'm like, I have to put my hood on and turn the other way,
• 19:01
  right? And I'm like coming inside and
• 19:05
  then I go right to my room, 'cause I'm all upset, right?
• 19:07
  Thinking like all my buddies are doing this.
• 19:09
  And here I am sitting in a detox.
• 19:11
  Like, so I'm looking out the window and I'm thinking like,
• 19:14
  like I shouldn't be here. Like maybe I'm just like
• 19:16
  drinking wrong or like, like, like I can, I can figure this
• 19:20
  out. Like, you know, like I can have
• 19:22
  one or two. What are they talking about?
• 19:23
  And then like bang like that, like this voice in my head is
• 19:29
  like, it just started like flooding my head with not only
• 19:35
  it was telling me like, 'cause I was also thinking a lot of like
• 19:37
  dark stuff too. I was thinking like, like, what
• 19:40
  have I done with my life? First of all, like, my life's so
• 19:43
  far gone. Like I'm sitting in a pretty
• 19:46
  much a jail cell right now. Like.
• 19:48
  And I was thinking like this voice came in my head and it was
• 19:53
  like, like, I'm not too far gone.
• 19:55
  Like if I just give my life to God, like anything is possible.
• 19:58
  That's exactly what I heard. And then I started to think like
• 20:02
  the opposite. I was like, OK, wait.
• 20:04
  Like you don't end up in a detox at 17 for no reason.
• 20:09
  Yeah, think about that. Your friends are across the road
• 20:11
  going for pizza and you're in a detox like.
• 20:14
  Stop taking that as like you're the victim, poor me and think
• 20:17
  that like, maybe you're the problem, right?
• 20:20
  Like maybe you need to, maybe it is time.
• 20:22
  And from that moment I have not picked up a drink.
• 20:26
  And I was, it's been three years, couple months and like,
• 20:33
  but when I got out of detox, I was like, I'm fixed.
• 20:36
  Like they, they, they just introduced me to my problem and
• 20:42
  I was right. When I got out of detox, I
• 20:43
  started going to a a like 2-2 times a day or once a day at
• 20:47
  least because I was in school still.
• 20:49
  So I'd go to school and then I'd go to a A at night and I'm like
• 20:53
  the youngest guy in there by far, right.
• 20:55
  But like I said, I'm like, I don't want to go to rehab.
• 20:59
  Like I don't, I got school, I got a job, I got a girlfriend.
• 21:01
  Like what do you mean? I got to go for 20 days now?
• 21:05
  Like I just went for five days. What do you mean?
• 21:08
  And but then I like signed myself up just in case.
• 21:13
  Like I did the pre, whatever it's called, the pre
• 21:17
  application. And when the spot got open, I
• 21:22
  was like, you know what, like everything I was learning at a A
• 21:25
  and all these like, for me, the opposite of addiction is
• 21:28
  connection. And like as soon as I was, you
• 21:31
  know, kept connected with like minded people, other Alcoholics
• 21:34
  and addicts in that detox, I was like, I felt not alone.
• 21:38
  And I was like, I didn't feel ashamed anymore because like
• 21:41
  before that point I felt like, like, why am I acting like this?
• 21:46
  Like there's something must be wrong with me and I'm like, no
• 21:49
  one's going to understand, right?
• 21:51
  And the second I went in there and their people started saying
• 21:54
  like me too, like, or they would say something and I could relate
• 21:57
  to it. And it's like, wait a second,
• 21:58
  like maybe there are people like me and it's not a bad thing.
• 22:03
  You just I can't drink or I can't do drugs, right?
• 22:06
  And because like a drugs wasn't really my issue, but like I
• 22:10
  smoked weed here and there and like 1 didn't go without the
• 22:12
  other. And you know what I mean?
• 22:14
  And it's like I, I don't know like once I went to rehab they
• 22:23
  that like I always used to think that saved my life.
• 22:27
  But they would tell me like, no, like we gave you your choice
• 22:30
  back and you did the work to save your life.
• 22:32
  And so every time I go there, I always thank them for, like,
• 22:36
  giving me a safe place to get sober because I could not do it
• 22:39
  out there. Like, as long as, like, alcohol
• 22:42
  was accessible to me, like, I was not going to be able to do
• 22:44
  it. Even when my parents, like,
• 22:48
  locked everything out of the house, stayed home with me, I
• 22:51
  still found a way to, like, do something right.
• 22:54
  And like, I moved mountains to get alcohol.
• 22:57
  And, yeah, when I went to rehab, like, I didn't want to do the
• 23:02
  work, really. But it was very like I just did
• 23:05
  it because I knew I had no other choice.
• 23:07
  Like I was like the whole like the DUI, the the way I was
• 23:13
  feeling in my stomach, like just and then my girlfriend was like
• 23:17
  finally going to leave. Like she was like I was always
• 23:20
  able to like speed talker back into it.
• 23:23
  Yeah, everybody. Like, you know, I always like to
• 23:25
  say it's like I had a bunch of dominoes or something and they
• 23:29
  were all scattered. I would always line them up
• 23:31
  perfectly and get everything back in order.
• 23:34
  And then as soon as like, things started to go OK, I would kick
• 23:37
  them all over again. And this time she was like, she
• 23:40
  had had enough. So I was like trying to like,
• 23:44
  you know, show her that I could get better.
• 23:47
  And like you said, I wasn't really doing it for myself, but
• 23:52
  in a way I was because in order to keep her, I had to be a
• 23:57
  better man, right? And and then once I started
• 24:00
  thinking that and she started telling me, you know, like you
• 24:03
  have to do it for yourself, like I can't be the reason, Then I
• 24:06
  started thinking, you know what, like without alcohol or drugs,
• 24:11
  like what am I like? What are my hobbies now?
• 24:14
  Like nothing like what do I like to do?
• 24:17
  Nothing. Like I was like that.
• 24:18
  I don't like that about myself. So I had to re find myself like
• 24:23
  I had to re learn how to talk to people, learn how to cause
• 24:27
  before that everything was based off of like drugs or alcohol.
• 24:33
  Pretty much, yeah. And especially with COVID, like
• 24:38
  I'm not sure if you were using or during.
• 24:40
  No I I stayed sober through all of COVID somehow.
• 24:42
  During COVID, like that was typically like for high school
• 24:46
  kids and stuff like, and like that was all we could really
• 24:50
  relate on because we weren't allowed to leave our house.
• 24:52
  So like we would talk about or if, if we were hanging out, like
• 24:56
  we would have to do something exciting and fun, which was get
• 24:59
  drunk or high. So I got to this point where
• 25:02
  like I, I realized that I didn't go anywhere or hang out with
• 25:05
  anybody like without doing drinking or smoking weed.
• 25:11
  And I was like, when was the last time I like, you know, just
• 25:16
  went for a walk with my girlfriend or like, did
• 25:18
  something like that I do today that I like, brings me so much
• 25:22
  happiness that I, like, completely ignored for the first
• 25:26
  however long I was drinking and stuff.
• 25:28
  Right. But yeah.
• 25:31
  And then the gambling, like, I don't know, like I can touch a
• 25:35
  little bit more on the drinking. I don't know how much time.
• 25:37
  We have, yeah. No, I just, I want to comment
• 25:38
  on, I think you said I, I can relate a lot to what you said
• 25:42
  specifically with the moment of clarity, right?
• 25:45
  I think, I think, you know, I've been in recovery for 10 years
• 25:48
  and I've managed to get together 8 years and I relapsed after
• 25:52
  that. So I learned a lot.
• 25:54
  Every single rehab, I went to all three of them.
• 25:56
  It was a different experience in that it taught me something
• 25:58
  different about myself. And I like what you said about,
• 26:03
  you know, the rehab just gives us a choice back because yeah, I
• 26:07
  absolutely 100% agree with that. They give you the choice.
• 26:09
  They also give you a set of tools that you can pick up or
• 26:12
  throw out the fucking window. And that's the choice.
• 26:13
  Right. And that's the choice exactly
• 26:15
  for me today, I have a choice between I'm, I'm a spiritual
• 26:18
  person. I don't consider myself a
• 26:20
  religious person, but I, I call my higher power God.
• 26:24
  I, I have a choice to choose God or to choose not to choose God.
• 26:28
  Really, that's kind of the, the two ways.
• 26:29
  It's really simple for me today. I, I like that It took me a
• 26:33
  while to get there, but my life is a lot easier when I live
• 26:35
  according to that principle. When you talked about the your
• 26:39
  high school across the street, I can really relate to my last
• 26:42
  bottom. This time was I was surfing in
• 26:44
  hotels and Airbnb's 'cause I was, my wife kicked me out of
• 26:46
  the house. I remember sitting in the lobby
• 26:50
  of that hotel and watching all the normal people check in and
• 26:54
  check out and I was getting kicked out because I couldn't
• 26:56
  afford to stay there anymore. I had all my drugs scattered all
• 26:58
  over the hotel. It was a mess, but that was my
• 27:01
  moment where it was like I had, I still had all my drugs.
• 27:03
  I could have went probably for another week if I just found
• 27:06
  somewhere else to go, but I had that incomprehensible, pitiful
• 27:09
  demoralization. The one that you can't like.
• 27:11
  You just can't wrap your mind around the current situation.
• 27:15
  You're like, how did I get here? How did this happen?
• 27:19
  And I'm a piece of shit because look at all these normal people.
• 27:21
  So it's like, I can really relate to that.
• 27:22
  It's like you see life happening across the street and you're in
• 27:25
  your own reality over here. It's like that's not what's
• 27:28
  happening for me, right? Like I was, not you're.
• 27:31
  Not in reality. I was not doing what other 17
• 27:33
  year olds were doing. Not even.
• 27:34
  And that's that moment of clarity where it's like, I think
• 27:37
  everybody has to get to and it's different for everyone.
• 27:40
  It's, it's. And that's why I believe it's a
• 27:41
  timing thing. It's a spiritual thing.
• 27:43
  It's for you. It was a voice, right?
• 27:46
  For me, it was just like a maybe it was a voice, but it was also
• 27:49
  just a moment of OK, like I'm, I'm, I'm done.
• 27:53
  I'm, I'm absolutely done. I don't wanna, I don't wanna
• 27:55
  manipulate, plan, lie, cheat, steal my way into the next high
• 28:00
  'cause that's what I was doing. I was just like wiggling around
• 28:03
  trying to find ways to safely use without people judging me at
• 28:07
  the end. That was really it And, and
• 28:08
  where I could still have fun or be free or whatever.
• 28:12
  So that's interesting to me. And I think that it's different
• 28:15
  for everyone. It's a timing thing.
• 28:16
  There's no, you know, you can flip a car and still not get
• 28:19
  sober or you can kill 10 people and still not get sober, or you
• 28:22
  can, I don't know, go lose your job and get sober, right?
• 28:27
  Like just from that. And it's different for everyone.
• 28:29
  It's all subjective, so. And one thing like I'm sure you,
• 28:33
  you said you work in a rehab, so I'm sure you get this a lot.
• 28:36
  But like people will ask like, or they'll come to me and
• 28:39
  they'll tell me about somebody that's struggling this close to
• 28:42
  them and they'll be like, what can I do to help them?
• 28:45
  And it's like, unfortunately, like you can support them, you
• 28:51
  can be a light for them and maybe try and like offer like
• 28:57
  rehab or detox or stuff like that at their low points, but
• 29:00
  that's about it. There's not much you can do.
• 29:02
  And you like that person needs to have that moment of clarity,
• 29:05
  like you said, in order like they have to say, you know what
• 29:08
  I'm done. Like for me, I was sick and
• 29:12
  tired of like being sick and tired of wondering where that
• 29:15
  bottle was, you know, and the same thing happened with
• 29:18
  gambling. Like I had to lose like
• 29:21
  literally almost everything and, and more.
• 29:25
  And like, I still like, like you said, for most people when they
• 29:31
  go to rehab, they're still not like fully accepting it.
• 29:35
  Like when I first went to rehab for gambling, like the first
• 29:38
  three days I was there, I fully planned to still gamble when I
• 29:42
  left. So.
• 29:43
  Yeah, walk us through that. How old are you?
• 29:45
  So you're sober. And as a lot of us do, we look
• 29:47
  for other things to fill that hole, right?
• 29:49
  How does that happen? So I got so I got sober and God
• 29:55
  I didn't get a sponsor till about like 6-6 months 7 in like
• 29:59
  I but I was very connected like I was going to lots of a
• 30:02
  meetings. I probably did 120 meetings 90
• 30:05
  days. Like I did way more than what
• 30:08
  was suggested, but I started and that that went on for a while,
• 30:14
  like in church, like I started going to church again, getting
• 30:18
  closer to God and you know, like that started.
• 30:23
  Yeah. That that's that went on for a
• 30:24
  while. Sorry, probably till around the
• 30:27
  two year mark. And then I, I got a job in the
• 30:31
  carpenters union and I moved out of my parents house in the like
• 30:35
  moved into London, which is an hour away from home.
• 30:38
  And I started making better money than I had.
• 30:41
  I was working at a cabinet shop before that and I was making
• 30:44
  better money with the union. And like my 18th birthday passed
• 30:49
  and I didn't even like, I'm pretty sure that's the age you
• 30:52
  can buy a scratch ticket, right? Like I didn't even do that
• 30:54
  because I just saw no point. Like I was like, I've liked
• 30:59
  everything I've tried so far. If I, if I, and I've said this
• 31:02
  out loud before I had ever gambled, I'd said, you know,
• 31:05
  like I just don't. Because if I win, you know, I'm
• 31:08
  probably going to get hooked. And I don't know, just one day
• 31:11
  after going to London for work and staying there, hanging out
• 31:17
  with some different friends and stop going to a a because, you
• 31:22
  know, the meetings in London weren't like they were in
• 31:24
  Chatham. And I made an excuse.
• 31:27
  I think it was because I, you know, they say when you relapse,
• 31:30
  the meetings are usually the first thing to go.
• 31:32
  And it's because, or they say, like it what, the second you
• 31:36
  think you got it, like that's when you slip.
• 31:39
  And like, I didn't have this, this conscious thought that I
• 31:42
  got it. But like, I remember leaving
• 31:44
  that meeting in London being like, OK, like, I'm just not
• 31:46
  going to go. Like whatever, like I'll go when
• 31:49
  I go home on the weekend. And that never happened, right,
• 31:51
  'cause I was seeing the girlfriend or doing this and I
• 31:54
  eventually it was just like, I don't know, like 2-3 months, one
• 31:58
  meeting probably. And like that was not like I
• 32:00
  said I was doing when I could. I was doing 2 a day and like at
• 32:05
  least one every night or at least three out of the five
• 32:08
  nights. Like I was doing a lot of
• 32:09
  meetings and then I just kind of cut it off and it didn't go to
• 32:15
  shit right away. But one night where after work,
• 32:18
  I'm already kind of given more money than I know what to do
• 32:21
  with because I'm in the union. I'm a Carpenter.
• 32:23
  Like it pays well. And I remember sitting there
• 32:28
  like having bills and stuff as well though.
• 32:30
  So like I'm getting good pay, but I'm also paying a lot of
• 32:34
  bills. Not like a lot, but what I
• 32:37
  considered a lot 'cause I had just moved out and I remember my
• 32:43
  buddies were just like playing on their phone online slots,
• 32:46
  like, and I'd never even heard of it.
• 32:49
  Like seen it. I seen the sports betting, but I
• 32:51
  didn't know you could play slots on your phone.
• 32:53
  And these guys were like, I just tried it like there, it was like
• 32:58
  20 bucks and I was like, this is harmless.
• 33:00
  Like I still had a bunch of money and I remember winning
• 33:05
  like 100 bucks right away. And I was thinking like, damn,
• 33:09
  like I like this. That's like my, my gas tank only
• 33:13
  costs 60 bucks to fill. So I'm like sweet, like this is
• 33:18
  like another source of income for me.
• 33:20
  And I remember like I didn't notice right away, but looking
• 33:24
  back, my friends were like looking at me like why isn't he
• 33:29
  stopping 'cause I would just keep saying like one more, one
• 33:31
  more and I would lose and I would just say one more.
• 33:34
  And like not like I said not right away, but within a week or
• 33:38
  two I was doing it all day, blowing my whole paycheck if and
• 33:45
  very early on, like I remember, sorry I should say this first,
• 33:50
  very early on, like before I was doing it everyday.
• 33:52
  I went to the actual casino once and I just brought 20 bucks
• 33:56
  'cause like I had, like I said, I didn't even really know how
• 33:59
  slots worked. So I just walked up to a machine
• 34:04
  with one of my friends and we were just, I knew nothing about
• 34:07
  it. Just picked one and walked up to
• 34:09
  it, put my 20 in and then someone said my name and I
• 34:12
  started like I looked over and started talking because I'm like
• 34:16
  I said ADHD. So I look over, start talking
• 34:18
  and I went to go hit the lowest bet and I hit the like the third
• 34:22
  or fourth button and it was like, I don't know, like $3.25 a
• 34:26
  spin and it triggered like first time I hit the hit the button,
• 34:30
  it went off the bonus and I won like 600 bucks.
• 34:34
  And like, I remember after that, I was like trying to go to
• 34:40
  Windsor every every weekend to see my buddy to go to the
• 34:42
  casino. And I remember playing it on my
• 34:47
  phone. Like I said.
• 34:48
  Now I'm like playing it all day everyday.
• 34:50
  Like first thing when I wake up, I'm like, because I can turn
• 34:55
  like I owe for rent so I can turn 20 bucks into 302 seconds.
• 35:00
  Like I was playing Sweet Bananas at 1000.
• 35:02
  So Fast forward a little bit and I'm like I said, I'm blowing my
• 35:07
  full paycheck and I'm making going to work in Oakville for
• 35:12
  four days making 1500 bucks. And an hour after it's deposited
• 35:17
  into my account, it's either multiplied by like 5 or 10 or
• 35:21
  it's completely gone. And more like Max out my credit
• 35:25
  cards. Applied for multiple credit
• 35:29
  cards so that I could gamble on them to hopefully win back.
• 35:34
  But yeah, that started like I'd say I don't know exactly when it
• 35:42
  started, but I got sober or I stopped doing that May like I
• 35:46
  stopped gambling may this year. So it would have been and I
• 35:49
  gambled for a total of about in between 10 months and a year
• 35:53
  blue think in between 100 and 10120 grand.
• 35:57
  And like I said, I had maxed out every credit card I could get at
• 36:03
  my hands on, took out every loan I could get from a money Mart or
• 36:07
  whatever they call them the payday advances.
• 36:12
  I got to the point where like I was like, I struggle to say this
• 36:20
  out loud, but it's the truth. So I would pretend that I was
• 36:24
  playing this game on my girlfriend's phone, but in
• 36:27
  reality, I was sending myself money off her account And like I
• 36:31
  would like I would steal from Peter to pay John, right?
• 36:34
  And I just borrowed and borrowed and borrowed.
• 36:37
  If if you, if I knew you and like you had money, like I was
• 36:39
  asking you to borrow money and I would pay you back 11 payday at
• 36:44
  work because I knew I was going to hit right.
• 36:45
  And that happened quite a few times.
• 36:48
  Spuddy would lend me 20-30 bucks and I'd turn 20-30 bucks and
• 36:52
  it's 5 grand and I'd pay him back like that day double and
• 36:57
  and then I'd be bawling for a couple days.
• 37:00
  Like near the end. It was like, it wasn't all like,
• 37:04
  yeah, it was all bad, but like it was like I would win a bunch
• 37:08
  of money, take it all out in cash because I knew that if it
• 37:11
  was in my bank account that I would just deposit it again.
• 37:14
  So I'd take it out in cash. So that way if I wanted to play
• 37:17
  with it, I had to drive to the bank and I had to think a little
• 37:20
  harder. But then near the end, I was
• 37:22
  like driving to the bank 7 times a day and I was like winning,
• 37:27
  like I said, 5, six, $7000 and I would take it all out in cash,
• 37:32
  be like living financially free for a few days.
• 37:35
  But I wouldn't pay off my credit cards.
• 37:38
  I wouldn't pay back any of the money I owed.
• 37:39
  I would just, you know, like I have money now.
• 37:42
  I can relax and, and then like slowly, like 2-3 days by the
• 37:49
  end, it was like same day 5 grand would go right back in
• 37:52
  just just as quick as I wanted. It was gone.
• 37:54
  And I remember like near the end, the breaking point for that
• 37:58
  was like, like I said, I owed every credit card I can get my
• 38:02
  hands on, stealing money from my parents.
• 38:05
  Like any money that was left around me, I was, you couldn't
• 38:08
  even leave. You couldn't even leave like
• 38:10
  quarters on your table. Like, 'cause I would go to the
• 38:12
  bank with quarters, Dimes, nickels and like deposit enough
• 38:16
  just so I could get 5 bucks to spend right, 'cause I could turn
• 38:19
  like one day. I didn't have enough for like a
• 38:23
  Big Mac in my account like and like if I wanted to like it was
• 38:27
  like negative, something was in my account and all.
• 38:30
  Like I said, all my credit cards are maxed.
• 38:33
  My mom's got me signed out of my online banking.
• 38:35
  So we we went to the bank and got my like banking like
• 38:39
  literally like locked out. So even if I tried to change the
• 38:42
  password or whatever, it wouldn't even let me in.
• 38:45
  In order to get that back, I had to like go to the bank one day,
• 38:48
  sneak sneak off to the bank on break one time at work and had
• 38:56
  to the girl had to like call the the office and we had to like do
• 38:58
  all the stuff to get my banking back up.
• 39:00
  And then I could gamble away, right.
• 39:02
  And yeah, my mom would like change my passwords, lock me
• 39:06
  out. I would give her all my cards.
• 39:07
  And then when soon as like she went to sleep, I would like
• 39:11
  reset all my passwords. And I knew she was going to text
• 39:14
  me in the morning being like, like, why?
• 39:16
  And but I knew that like all I wanted was that a little bit of
• 39:20
  time to gamble and like I didn't care about the consequences at
• 39:23
  all. Like I knew I was going to get
• 39:25
  caught stealing money from whoever.
• 39:27
  And like I still did it. And like, like I said, the one
• 39:34
  day I didn't even have enough to go get a coffee if I wanted to.
• 39:36
  And I got these free spins from the app that I was on and
• 39:41
  they're offering me like they're offering me trips and stuff
• 39:46
  because I'm losing so much money, right?
• 39:48
  And I don't realize it, but like, it's kind of like the
• 39:51
  movies, like, you know, like they say, oh, you can get your
• 39:54
  room comped or you can like all this stuff.
• 39:57
  But how am I going to, how am I going to go for a free week to
• 40:00
  Cabo? Like, but I'm not gambling,
• 40:03
  right? Like I have I can't pay rent but
• 40:05
  I just got a trip to Mexico. Go do the apps offer that?
• 40:08
  Like if you're like I was, I was like level 1000 on this one app
• 40:12
  and I was like, once you get up to like those high levels, it
• 40:15
  takes like like picture or video game, like as you level up your
• 40:19
  character, the higher the level, the harder it is to level up.
• 40:22
  So I'm like still level 1000. I got 980.
• 40:27
  It's like it takes like probably 20 grand to level up.
• 40:30
  Like in losing, right? Like in buy insurance.
• 40:33
  And yeah, like I said, I'm they're offering me all this
• 40:37
  stuff. I'm getting all these this money
• 40:39
  back at the end of the week, blah, blah, blah.
• 40:42
  And I'm like looking at my wagered how much money I wagered
• 40:47
  for the first time ever. Like I didn't, I didn't even
• 40:49
  know you could look at it on this app.
• 40:50
  I had tried before, but I couldn't find it.
• 40:52
  And the one day I found it and it was like multiple $1,000,000.
• 40:56
  I had moved around in like under four months because like I said,
• 40:59
  I would ban myself or my mom would find out.
• 41:01
  And I'd be like, oh, I'm not on those apps anymore, but I'd find
• 41:04
  a new one. And this one that I found was
• 41:06
  like gives you free spins every week.
• 41:09
  It offers you like all this stuff, right?
• 41:12
  And the one time, the one day, like every weekend, it would
• 41:16
  give you free spins and typically I'd only win like a
• 41:19
  dollar $2.00, whatever. This time I won $7.00 and I
• 41:23
  turned that $7.00 in like an hour or two into like 13 grand I
• 41:29
  think. And like that was the most money
• 41:31
  like I had ever had in my hand at one time.
• 41:34
  And I didn't even get to withdraw at all because like
• 41:37
  they have like limits on how much you can withdraw per day
• 41:39
  and stuff like that. And it only let me withdraw so
• 41:44
  much. And I'm like knowing that if I
• 41:47
  keep this money in my bank or if I withdraw it, sorry, if I keep
• 41:52
  it in the account, then I'm going to play with it, right?
• 41:54
  But I can't withdraw it because the bank was closed that day.
• 41:57
  And I didn't want my mom to, like, see it in the account
• 42:00
  because she would just, you know, take it or use it for what
• 42:04
  it was actually needed for, like to pay back my bills and stuff.
• 42:08
  I wouldn't actually get that money that I won.
• 42:11
  So I just like, waited. I was going to wait till the
• 42:14
  bank opened in the morning and then withdraw it, go take it all
• 42:17
  out in cash like I always do. And I remember like, having this
• 42:23
  thought that like, OK, well, the like, I'm screwed because the
• 42:27
  bank's not open. So I can't take this money out.
• 42:30
  I can't control myself. And like, what am I going to do?
• 42:33
  And I like, text my friend. I'm like, hey, man, like I just
• 42:36
  want a bunch of money. Can you come hang out with me?
• 42:38
  Because like, there's a really good chance if I'm by myself,
• 42:40
  like that's not going to be here in the morning, He's like, yeah,
• 42:43
  dude, like how much did you win, blah, blah, blah.
• 42:46
  I told him and he's like, OK, just text me when you're done
• 42:49
  dinner. I'll come over.
• 42:50
  And then I like, put my phone on DND right after I ate, went to
• 42:54
  my room with the intent I'm playing like one more hand and
• 42:57
  just like getting to 15, right? And within 30 minutes it was
• 43:03
  back to 0 back like I didn't even when I had that money, I
• 43:06
  could have paid off my credit cards could have, you know, at
• 43:09
  least pay back one of the loans I took out or But no, I blew
• 43:14
  that all right away and then kept going, kept searching for
• 43:18
  instantly as soon as it was done, I started looking for
• 43:20
  money like where else can I, what can I sell pawn my Xbox, my
• 43:24
  guitar, everything I had like everything, my speakers like
• 43:28
  everything that I had nice. Like I went to the pawn shop,
• 43:30
  sold it for like dirt cheap, gambled that money away like
• 43:34
  that. And then was like, why did I do
• 43:36
  that? Like now I don't have an Xbox.
• 43:39
  Now I don't have this. Now I can't play my guitar.
• 43:42
  But to your point, it's like, I'll deal with that later.
• 43:44
  That's such a common thought that in addiction I I find for
• 43:47
  me at least, was like, sweep it under the rug.
• 43:49
  This is tomorrow Anthony's problem, right?
• 43:51
  But today I'm going to deal with, I'm going to get what I
• 43:53
  want, right? Is there a difference between
• 43:55
  the thought process that goes through your mind when you lose
• 43:59
  a bunch and when you win a bunch?
• 44:00
  Like is there a difference between cause the the outcome is
• 44:05
  the same every time you don't stop right?
• 44:07
  So and what's? What I realized.
• 44:08
  What's the thought process behind it?
• 44:11
  I think it's like. If you had to put it into words.
• 44:15
  Like you're, you're trying to ask like what that like what's
• 44:19
  the motivation? How do you convince yourself to
• 44:21
  keep going? OK.
• 44:23
  Because I know there's justification.
• 44:24
  There's a whole monkey wheel going on back there, right?
• 44:27
  It's like I just tell myself that like like next time it's
• 44:32
  going to be different, right? Like this next bit or I'm due,
• 44:35
  right. Like I would always tell myself
• 44:37
  I had what they call a cognitive distortion.
• 44:41
  I'm sure you've heard of that. But what that is is where you
• 44:45
  like, you can believe, like you believe things that are like
• 44:49
  like proven to like not be true or like there's like absolutely
• 44:52
  no, no proof that that is true or that like the most ridiculous
• 44:58
  things I would come up with in my head to like keep me going.
• 45:00
  I'm like, like I got to the point where I was like driving
• 45:05
  and gambling, like not even looking at it, just just based
• 45:07
  off the sound, right? And I'm like in my head, I'm
• 45:10
  like, you know, like I've lost this much, right?
• 45:14
  So it's going to hit this time, right?
• 45:16
  It has to they have like these these numbers at every time you
• 45:21
  play an online slot, even most regular slots, there's numbers
• 45:24
  like there's percentages of like it's called RTP return to
• 45:28
  player. So most of these games I'm
• 45:31
  playing are less. They're like supposedly 95%
• 45:34
  return to player. So that means 95% of what like
• 45:37
  the time that you're playing, you should be getting your money
• 45:39
  back, which is like not accurate.
• 45:42
  But like I'm thinking like like I said every now and then I
• 45:47
  would hit like I would be on my very last like 20 bucks or my
• 45:51
  last, my last buy in like that I could do or afford and it would
• 45:55
  hit for big. So I was like I had myself
• 45:58
  convinced that like I don't know that like for some reason this
• 46:03
  next one was going to be big. And like I said very early on, I
• 46:08
  hit like this one, this one win for $20.00 I put in for 10 spins
• 46:14
  and it was like some multiplier thing and like I won like 6 or 7
• 46:20
  grand. And like, like I said, I, I've
• 46:23
  never seen that kind of money in my life because I've always had
• 46:26
  that spending issue that we talked about.
• 46:30
  As fast as money comes in, it seems to go out and at least
• 46:34
  today it's on not things that are negatively impacting my
• 46:38
  life. I definitely would love to save
• 46:41
  more money, but I think in the time it was like if $20 hit for
• 46:46
  six grand, what is $200 going to hit for?
• 46:50
  And I got to the the point where I was doing $2000 buy insurance
• 46:54
  like 2000 bucks for 10 spins and I get 100 bucks back and I'd be
• 46:58
  like, it's got a hit man. And I'd do it again.
• 47:01
  And then nothing. And like I'd go through like 10
• 47:03
  grand and like that. And like, once I realized how
• 47:08
  fast I was going through the money, I was like, this is like,
• 47:13
  I'm going to be homeless like tomorrow if I don't stop.
• 47:15
  It's sort of it's, you know, from this side of it when you're
• 47:18
  kind of clear and you're out of the illusion that we were in,
• 47:24
  right? It's the same with addiction.
• 47:25
  It's the same thing. You're in this illusion where
• 47:27
  you're just making up your own outcomes and your own
• 47:30
  circumstances. And this is the way it is, like
• 47:32
  you said, but from this side now, now that you sit on it, you
• 47:36
  really start to realize, at least from my perspective, apps
• 47:39
  like Instagram, apps like Tiktok, apps like the ones
• 47:43
  you're mentioning, they're they're developed, programmed,
• 47:46
  fine-tuned for us to stay on them, right?
• 47:50
  And so it's like once you 'cause as I'm hearing you talk, it's
• 47:52
  like, yeah, there's a room full of fucking engineers making this
• 47:56
  app up so that you don't stop, that you don't give up, you
• 47:59
  don't cash out. Perfect example.
• 48:02
  I can't withdraw all my money. Let's keep him here another day
• 48:05
  because that's gonna, right. So even for the person that's
• 48:07
  not a predisposed to addiction, it's this recipe for success for
• 48:11
  them and in failure for us, right?
• 48:14
  It's, it's random. But that's The funny thing is
• 48:16
  you see these commercials, gambling is random.
• 48:19
  That's kind of what keeps you going too though, because if
• 48:21
  it's random, that means I can win $30,000 in one.
• 48:24
  Hit and and like the one thing that would like really got me
• 48:28
  was like all these you see like, I don't know, you obviously
• 48:33
  probably have a personal account other than your recovery
• 48:36
  account. So like, you can see, like I'll,
• 48:39
  I, I barely go on that account now because the algorithm is
• 48:42
  like, it's so bad. Like I'll see one thing that
• 48:45
  piques my interest and I'll press on this page.
• 48:47
  He's sponsored by Rainbat. Rainbat.
• 48:49
  And I'm like, it's like for me, that's what they were offering
• 48:52
  me was sponsorship really to go to Mexico.
• 48:55
  All I had to do was like, all I had to do was stream or
• 48:57
  whatever, right? And you see some of these
• 48:59
  streamers, man, it's dark, right?
• 49:01
  No, right. And I was like wrapped into
• 49:05
  this, like I wanted what this guy had that I was looking up
• 49:08
  to. I'm not going to say his name.
• 49:09
  I don't want to give him any attention, but I was like this
• 49:13
  guy would like, he started out like just, it's like a college
• 49:19
  kid, right? And very quickly he was like had
• 49:23
  Lamborghinis like this, that money.
• 49:25
  And he was like, I would always watch his videos and like that
• 49:32
  was one thing that kept me coming back.
• 49:33
  And then another thing was like, like you said, there's all these
• 49:36
  things that keep you like they're, they're designed to
• 49:39
  keep you on it. So like now that I'm thinking
• 49:41
  and I'm like, looking back at it, it's like there were days
• 49:44
  when like I wasn't even supposed to get free spins and they just
• 49:48
  like popped up in my account. Or like like I remember days
• 49:51
  where I had no money and 40 bucks would just show up in my
• 49:55
  account or like not my bank account, my my gambling account,
• 49:59
  like like and so. Corrupt man I had.
• 50:05
  I don't want to out myself. I want to say what watch app,
• 50:08
  but like I had found a way to like my like I said my credit
• 50:12
  cards everything Max out right. So but if I deposited $1.00 at a
• 50:15
  time on this one website, it would work and I would go check
• 50:19
  my bank. Nothing would come out and
• 50:21
  nothing bad ever came from it. But I remember like I would, it
• 50:26
  would let you do it like 20-30 times before it would like catch
• 50:29
  on and be like, you've done too many deposits today, blah, blah,
• 50:32
  blah. And every day I'd get like this
• 50:34
  free 20-30 bucks. And that was like what kept me
• 50:36
  coming back because I knew I could get a free 20 bucks,
• 50:38
  right? Money that I didn't actually
• 50:40
  have in my account. If I wanted to, I could just hit
• 50:43
  withdrawal and take that. I could deposit $1.00 10 times
• 50:47
  or 20 times, whatever, and withdraw that 10 bucks and it
• 50:49
  would go into my bank account if I wanted to, but I would always
• 50:53
  just gamble it and hope to turn that 20-30 that I got into
• 50:57
  enough to pay Joe and Jim and Jeff back, right.
• 50:59
  Once I get that, then you know, once I did, once I pay this,
• 51:03
  then it'll be good and. Until it's like, like I said, I
• 51:06
  owed credit cards, money, marts, parents, girlfriend, friends.
• 51:15
  Like I had nowhere left to go. Apparently every everybody what
• 51:19
  everybody. And like, I'm getting notices
• 51:22
  from my insurance that like, they're going to terminate my
• 51:25
  insurance and yeah, and I'm like, starting to miss payments,
• 51:29
  right? And I'm like, OK, well, like I
• 51:34
  said, when I went to like, they signed me up for like this, this
• 51:40
  therapy that, like, specializes in gambling addiction and what's
• 51:44
  it called? Like CBT or?
• 51:47
  Something digital dependency too.
• 51:49
  I've done CBT yeah so I've but I special or I went to this one
• 51:53
  therapist and she kept offering the residential thing.
• 51:57
  She would tell me that like a lot of people would like need to
• 52:00
  go to the in person because like they're surrounded by.
• 52:03
  But I think what she was getting at was like, if I have my phone
• 52:06
  with me, like there's nothing going to stop me because like.
• 52:09
  You need to go to rehab, motherfucker.
• 52:10
  Yeah, because I'm. 20 right, so no one's going to tell me like,
• 52:13
  you know, you can't have your phone or like because, but that
• 52:16
  was the only thing that was going to stop me was like taking
• 52:19
  it away from me and like doing the work like I because like
• 52:25
  like you said, I don't think it was the same thought process,
• 52:28
  but like that all the problems within that I thought I had
• 52:35
  dealt with when I went to rehab for alcoholism.
• 52:38
  We're like the same reasons. When I went to again and it was
• 52:43
  like the second time, I actually had to like look at them and do
• 52:48
  something about it 'cause like I thought I was doing something
• 52:53
  about it before. But the second I disconnected
• 52:56
  myself, I reached for something else.
• 52:59
  And like for a long time, like I would say at least three months,
• 53:04
  I knew what I was doing was like leading me to a like either jail
• 53:09
  cell or death, to be honest, because there was many days I
• 53:14
  woke up and I like realized what I'd done or like, I'd snapped
• 53:18
  out of it and I'm like, holy shit.
• 53:21
  Like, and I wanted to like, I didn't want to kill myself, but
• 53:24
  I didn't want to live anymore the way I was living.
• 53:26
  I was like, if this is the way it's going to be like, what's
• 53:28
  the point? Like if if you can't get it
• 53:31
  together, Logan, like, what's what's the point?
• 53:33
  Like you're, you're screwing everyone over and like, you're
• 53:38
  like, I genuinely was just making things worse for like,
• 53:41
  literally everybody around me and myself.
• 53:44
  And then when I went to rehab, like I said, for the first three
• 53:46
  days, I was like, I was gambling the hour before I went in there.
• 53:50
  And like, I hold on. I'm peeing.
• 53:52
  Like trying to win money for what?
• 53:55
  Like, what do you need money for Modified rehab?
• 53:57
  Yeah. Just yeah, so sorry.
• 53:59
  Just to cut in quickly, you didn't pick up a drink in this
• 54:01
  whole time. No, I never, never went back to
• 54:03
  drinking. Were you scared about that at
• 54:05
  all? I was like a couple times, like
• 54:09
  like I never genuinely thought about it, but I was like a few
• 54:11
  times I I had said like when I got really bad, like a big fight
• 54:16
  with my girlfriend, like she's like, oh, like like.
• 54:19
  Like. When she would say I'm going to
• 54:21
  leave or something, like I'd be like, well, you know where I'm
• 54:25
  going. Like I would just hint at it,
• 54:27
  right? I would never, but I never did.
• 54:29
  No, as closest I ever got to it was at prom I accidentally
• 54:34
  picked up me and my girlfriend both had yetis accidentally
• 54:37
  picked up hers and I second I like looked up, realized there's
• 54:40
  no ice. I like put it back down.
• 54:43
  I was like kind of got upset because I don't know like she's
• 54:47
  pretty usually pretty good. She won't even leave her cup
• 54:49
  near mine because if they look the same like you know how it is
• 54:52
  right? You would hate to accidentally
• 54:54
  drink. I have.
• 54:55
  I've done it before and in the eight years that I had, I did it
• 54:58
  and I didn't think twice about it.
• 55:00
  I mean, it scared the shit out of me, but I was in recovery
• 55:02
  long enough where I had heard people tell me about stories and
• 55:05
  they're like, it's not a relapse if you accidentally drink.
• 55:08
  It's it's what you do after. And I remember I told somebody.
• 55:10
  So yeah, it's happened to me. It's scary though.
• 55:12
  It is. Like I said, like I picked it up
• 55:15
  and it like it almost touched my lips.
• 55:17
  I realized there's no ice and I'm like, Nope.
• 55:19
  Like but yeah, I know. Never picked up a drink.
• 55:24
  Doesn't mean I haven't thought about it.
• 55:27
  There's been nights where I've like, even after gambling, like
• 55:32
  after I got stopped gambling, like recovery's hard, man.
• 55:35
  Like there's been some days where I like I leave the
• 55:39
  driveway fully intending on throwing it all away and then
• 55:42
  right away, like 10 seconds, it only takes me 1015 seconds
• 55:45
  usually before I like play that tape forward and I'm like, like,
• 55:49
  you know where this is going to lead you right, Every single
• 55:51
  time, Like very quickly. Like, and I know like if I were
• 55:54
  to went and pick up a drink, like when I'm heading there to
• 55:56
  throw it all away, I'm going to get a 40 or a sixty.
• 55:59
  I'm not going to not going to get a six pack.
• 56:01
  Like I'm going to throw everything away and I'm going to
• 56:07
  I'm probably if I drink that 60, like my plan would be pretty
• 56:11
  deadly, right? Like, and I'm just very thankful
• 56:14
  for like the tools that I got in recovery, the ability to, you
• 56:18
  know, play that tape forward and I'm surrounded like I'm so
• 56:22
  grateful for the support system I have.
• 56:24
  I have like great parents that supported me through all that,
• 56:28
  like especially the gambling addiction and my girlfriend as
• 56:31
  well. Like most people, you would look
• 56:34
  at them and be like, oh, sorry, most parents look at their kid
• 56:38
  and be like, I don't care who you are, you're not going to
• 56:41
  treat me like that. You're not like family doesn't
• 56:43
  treat family like that, right? And they had said that to me a
• 56:46
  couple times. And that's what really clicked
• 56:47
  it in my head was like, you're right, like.
• 56:51
  Blessed. Exactly, like I have literally
• 56:53
  everything around me waiting for me to just take action and I'm
• 56:56
  like throwing it all away because I want to either drown
• 56:59
  myself in this bottle or. Maybe hit a?
• 57:02
  Maybe hit a jackpot that's not even going to like when I hit
• 57:05
  near the end like hit big for 678.
• 57:08
  I'm like sweet another hour, another hour.
• 57:12
  That's literally my thought. You.
• 57:13
  Just bought yourself another. Yeah, I was like, cool, another
• 57:16
  another day of people not asking me for money.
• 57:18
  Like, like I knew that like I was not going to stop until I
• 57:24
  hit zero and that. And then when I started, like I
• 57:27
  mentioned, like I had sticky fingers when I like when I hit
• 57:30
  zero, I would start looking for money elsewhere.
• 57:32
  And that's what really scared me because I was like, eventually
• 57:37
  like, I'm going to screw the wrong person here and I'm either
• 57:40
  going to end up dead or in jail. And eventually I'm not going to
• 57:45
  hit that win, but I'm going to be able to pay back before they
• 57:48
  notice or whatever. Right.
• 57:49
  Like I did a lot of like screwing people over and I like
• 57:53
  feel terrible, terrible about it today, But what I've been taught
• 57:59
  in recovery is like, I've made my amends and, and I've repented
• 58:04
  for my sins and like I've these people forgive me.
• 58:07
  God Forgives me. Why can't I forgive myself,
• 58:09
  right? I'm the last person that's like
• 58:11
  holding on to it. Like, I look at my parents and
• 58:14
  like, sometimes I'll go up to my mom and I'll just like tear up
• 58:17
  and I'll look at her and I'll be like, 'cause I just look at her
• 58:19
  and remember some of the stuff I did while I was drinking.
• 58:22
  And I'm like, I'll just look around and say I'm sorry.
• 58:24
  Like, and should be like for what?
• 58:26
  And I'm like, I'll tell her like what I'm thinking and she'll be
• 58:29
  like, I haven't thought about that in years.
• 58:32
  Like, what do you mean? Like one of the things that
• 58:34
  keeps me sober today is like my mom came up to me a little while
• 58:38
  ago and was like Logan. I could finally sleep at night.
• 58:41
  And like, I didn't realize. Like I said, I thought it was
• 58:45
  like, it's my money. Like I'm not affecting anybody
• 58:48
  else until I was like taking money, but like in the
• 58:51
  beginning, it's my money. Like I'm not hurting anybody
• 58:53
  else. Don't worry about me.
• 58:55
  It's my body. Like if anything, I'm only
• 58:58
  hurting myself, like blacking out and stuff.
• 59:02
  I never saw an issue with that. Like that was a regular
• 59:05
  occurrence for me. Near the end, I'd have like
• 59:09
  couple Bud Lights or a couple Bush Lights and I wouldn't even
• 59:11
  remember what I did that night. Like it was bad.
• 59:14
  And like I said also I near the end, I didn't even want to drink
• 59:21
  beer. It was like I just wanted the
• 59:23
  the Jack Daniels or whatever, whatever had the highest percent
• 59:26
  of alcohol in it is what I wanted.
• 59:28
  And like, because I felt like if I didn't, you know, hit the
• 59:32
  floor or like run out of booze, I didn't hit my full potential.
• 59:35
  And like even today, if I were to go back, like I know like I'm
• 59:40
  not having one. Like I don't want one.
• 59:42
  I never wanted one, never had one.
• 59:46
  Like from from very early on, like I don't think I've ever
• 59:51
  just had a couple and called it quits.
• 59:53
  Maybe I called it quits while the buddies were there and as
• 59:56
  soon as they left I figured something out 'cause I wasn't
• 59:58
  going to bed sober, wasn't even going to cut the grass sober.
• 1:00:02
  Like I would figure something out.
• 1:00:03
  I was slugging back five tall boys in like 5 minutes just to
• 1:00:07
  get a buzz so that I could cut the grass before dad got home
• 1:00:11
  and I'd be like running back in the house.
• 1:00:14
  After like trying to not throw up everything, I just drank and
• 1:00:17
  he's pulling in the driveway and I'm like coming in the door at
• 1:00:20
  the same time he is. And then I like put on that mask
• 1:00:23
  again. And like I was functioning
• 1:00:26
  alcoholic addict, gambling addict.
• 1:00:28
  I was functioning through all of it.
• 1:00:29
  Like I had the ability to like everything's fine while I'm
• 1:00:34
  around you. But then like behind closed
• 1:00:36
  doors, like I said, I didn't even want to be alive or keep
• 1:00:38
  living the way I was living. But I've lost a lot of friends
• 1:00:43
  of suicide through addiction. Like before I got sober, before
• 1:00:49
  I came into the world of recovery, I'd lost my great
• 1:00:51
  grandpa and a friend to cancer and that's it.
• 1:00:55
  Since I came into recovery, like so many funerals, men, so many
• 1:01:01
  funerals and close people in my life that like I would have
• 1:01:04
  considered brothers. And like today I just realized
• 1:01:09
  that like when you kill yourself, I don't know who said
• 1:01:12
  this. Like I don't want to steal
• 1:01:14
  anybody's quote, but somebody said this.
• 1:01:17
  But I heard it is when you kill yourself, you don't end the
• 1:01:20
  pain, you transfer it. And that like I felt that like
• 1:01:25
  if I were to just take the easy way out and I don't even have
• 1:01:28
  the balls to do any of that, like jump in traffic or
• 1:01:31
  something like I don't even know.
• 1:01:32
  Like that stuff all scares me like and to just imagine the
• 1:01:38
  pain that would inflict on my like the people that I love.
• 1:01:42
  Like it's just so selfish in my opinion.
• 1:01:45
  Like I'm not saying people that that do it are selfish.
• 1:01:47
  I'm just saying for me to do it in the moment, I would have just
• 1:01:50
  felt like that was the selfish thing to do and easy way out
• 1:01:54
  like I said. Yeah, you can't quantify the
• 1:01:56
  amount of pain that it causes for the amount of time it
• 1:01:58
  causes. You just don't know what it
• 1:02:00
  looks like. I want to land the plane here
• 1:02:02
  with this people that are struggling with gambling like
• 1:02:06
  what what helps you what what did you learn in rehab to help
• 1:02:09
  you stay sober from gambling to and what helps you today?
• 1:02:14
  Like, how do you, how do you not gamble today?
• 1:02:17
  So one thing that I had to realize that it was a hard pill
• 1:02:19
  to swallow, but that no matter how much money I won, it was
• 1:02:23
  never going to be enough. And like that, that void that we
• 1:02:29
  have in our stomach that like, once I realized that I like I, I
• 1:02:34
  had denied and denied and denied.
• 1:02:35
  Like I'm not cross addicted. Like I'm not switching from one
• 1:02:38
  to another because, you know, I'm sober.
• 1:02:41
  Like I'm not putting anything into my body.
• 1:02:42
  I'm not thinking different. Well, I was thinking
• 1:02:45
  differently, but you know, like, it's not like making me impaired
• 1:02:48
  the way alcohol would. So I'm, I'm not like, but once I
• 1:02:54
  realized that, like I'm just trying to fill that hole again.
• 1:02:58
  And once I realized that it was the way I viewed money that was
• 1:03:02
  keeping me gambling. I don't know if you asked me
• 1:03:06
  what it was for me that kept me gambling and I should have said
• 1:03:08
  that, but it was it was the money part of it.
• 1:03:10
  Like once I once I realized how I viewed money was wrong and
• 1:03:15
  like I the way I viewed like materialistic thing.
• 1:03:18
  How did you view it? Like like I viewed it like
• 1:03:21
  growing up, like hockey and everything like that.
• 1:03:24
  Like the more expensive the hockey stick, the better you
• 1:03:26
  were a hockey or the cooler you were right.
• 1:03:30
  OK, more expensive your shoes were the cooler you were.
• 1:03:32
  So tying your identity to material things.
• 1:03:34
  So I did that growing up until I went to rehab for gambling, like
• 1:03:38
  all through sobriety, I still did that.
• 1:03:40
  And when I went to rehab for gambling, I, I realized that
• 1:03:45
  like no matter what I get, like whether it's the expensive car
• 1:03:50
  or whatever, that money that I get is going to buy me is not
• 1:03:54
  going to fill that void. So like today when I gave my
• 1:03:58
  life to God, I'm getting baptized in January, but I'm a
• 1:04:02
  Christian. A lot of people get Catholicism
• 1:04:04
  and Christianity mixed up. But I, I realized that like the
• 1:04:10
  only thing I can do to fill that void from myself is God is to
• 1:04:14
  give my life to God and to, to be a good person.
• 1:04:18
  And like all these things that it took a while when I stopped
• 1:04:22
  gambling because the dopamine levels were so off, but to like
• 1:04:25
  enjoy natural things. But like after I stopped
• 1:04:29
  gambling, I started to enjoy things that even when I got
• 1:04:33
  sober from alcohol, I didn't even enjoy.
• 1:04:35
  Like things that you're supposed to enjoy, like going for walks,
• 1:04:38
  stuff like that. Like I didn't find any enjoyment
• 1:04:41
  in that because I was still looking for that, you know, that
• 1:04:44
  rush or that, that to fill that void, right?
• 1:04:47
  And like once that once I realized that like, like I said,
• 1:04:52
  no matter no matter what, what, what jackpot I hit or like how
• 1:04:58
  much money I get or like it's never going to be enough for me
• 1:05:03
  to, I'm always going to keep going until I hit 0.
• 1:05:05
  I heard someone say once in on the gambling side, if I won all
• 1:05:10
  the money in the world, every single dollar, I would go to
• 1:05:13
  Mars and try to win all the money there.
• 1:05:15
  That that resonate with me. It's the same thing with drugs
• 1:05:17
  and alcohol. Right.
• 1:05:18
  I heard somebody say that also resonates with me is like if I
• 1:05:21
  could be like a a normal drinker, like I just sit around
• 1:05:25
  and drink all day. I drink all the time like.
• 1:05:28
  And that's me. Like if I could.
• 1:05:29
  Drink. Normally I would drink all the
• 1:05:30
  time. And like, like what you said,
• 1:05:32
  like if I had all the money in the world, every dollar, I feel
• 1:05:36
  like I would just go to the biggest casino there is.
• 1:05:38
  And that's like I would just keep trying to win more.
• 1:05:41
  And yeah, like to one thing I would encourage people that are
• 1:05:46
  struggling with a game limitation is you don't have to
• 1:05:51
  like you don't have to ruin everything.
• 1:05:54
  Like what? Because like before I, before I
• 1:05:57
  really dug myself really deep, I knew and I just thought I could,
• 1:06:01
  I could, you know, one more win would pull me out of it.
• 1:06:04
  And I could just, you know, like the debt started really low and
• 1:06:08
  like if I could just win like a couple thousand and I could be
• 1:06:11
  done and, and I would never gamble again, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:06:15
  But like, if you realize that you have a problem, just know
• 1:06:18
  that like there are resources out there.
• 1:06:20
  I had no idea I could go to rehab for gambling.
• 1:06:23
  I didn't even know that. And like, there's Gamblers
• 1:06:28
  Anonymous, there's I have a sponsor for Gai have I go to GA
• 1:06:34
  meetings online now because there's not one in my hometown,
• 1:06:37
  but I, I used to go to one in Windsor.
• 1:06:39
  So I would drive an hour to go to it.
• 1:06:41
  Fellowship. I, I encourage people to reach
• 1:06:44
  out to those that, you know, like people like not trying to
• 1:06:49
  stay humble, but like people like us that make it known that
• 1:06:52
  we have suffered with this. Like, don't be afraid to ask a
• 1:06:55
  question because for someone like me or Anthony, like
• 1:06:59
  answering your question is going to not only help us, but it
• 1:07:02
  might help you. And the biggest thing for me
• 1:07:06
  that kept me like coming back and what switched me from like,
• 1:07:11
  I'm going to keep going when I get out of here till like I'm
• 1:07:14
  done was like seeing everything around me.
• 1:07:19
  Like, like I said, I'm still pretty young.
• 1:07:21
  I'm 20 years old. So like going in there and
• 1:07:25
  seeing like people that were actually losing the house,
• 1:07:28
  losing the wife, losing the kids and all this stuff.
• 1:07:30
  Like I'm like, if I can picture myself like losing everything,
• 1:07:37
  like it's definitely going to happen, right?
• 1:07:39
  And this is proof people around me, these are people that are
• 1:07:41
  like living the same thing that I was living.
• 1:07:44
  They're just 5-10 years more ahead.
• 1:07:45
  Yes, exactly. Have that same.
• 1:07:47
  And people, I'm sure you say it to people in recovery, like if
• 1:07:51
  you haven't done something like you're like, oh, like, like I
• 1:07:55
  don't really like to say numbers that much, but I did today.
• 1:07:58
  But like, 'cause you might think, oh, I didn't do as much
• 1:08:02
  as like I did or I didn't waste as much money as I did, but
• 1:08:05
  like, you know what I mean? Like if you haven't done that
• 1:08:09
  yet or sorry if you haven't done it yet, it's just like you said
• 1:08:13
  yet. It's like if you go back out,
• 1:08:16
  you're going to be that guy that you know is drinking.
• 1:08:19
  For me, I was like, I'm not drinking hand sanitizer.
• 1:08:23
  But if I go back out and it gets bad enough, I'm sure enough
• 1:08:25
  probably will. And or like I'm not robbing
• 1:08:28
  banks, but like if I need to or stealing from grocery stores, I
• 1:08:32
  probably would have if it gets bad enough.
• 1:08:34
  I'm good enough at convincing myself that that is a good idea
• 1:08:37
  and that is the only idea. So I absolutely I know myself
• 1:08:42
  well enough that I can manipulate myself, justify it.
• 1:08:45
  I can justify anything in my head.
• 1:08:46
  When I was drinking or gambling I would justify absolutely
• 1:08:49
  anything but. OK, Logan, New generation
• 1:08:53
  sobriety. Where can we find you?
• 1:08:54
  Where can we find the podcast? On Instagram, Spotify, YouTube,
• 1:08:58
  I pretty much the goal is to just try and help the next young
• 1:09:04
  person and or anybody really. But for me, when I got sober,
• 1:09:08
  especially from alcohol and gambling, I was like I'm really
• 1:09:12
  into recovery based movies but I was really looking for a podcast
• 1:09:16
  or something where there is just like another young guy with a
• 1:09:20
  success story and I didn't really see too much of it.
• 1:09:24
  There are younger guys but a lot of the guys I'm connecting with
• 1:09:26
  are like 10 years older than me ish or which doesn't matter.
• 1:09:31
  I realize age is a number or age is just a number.
• 1:09:33
  We're all going through the same thing, but.
• 1:09:35
  Dude, it's it's important man to the guy that's 1920 that can't
• 1:09:40
  see my life that you know, I'm married and this doesn't relate
• 1:09:44
  the. Same way was like keep doing it
• 1:09:46
  man was like I don't know how to relate to these people because
• 1:09:49
  like Anthony already has the car and the wife and the house.
• 1:09:52
  I'm still trying to get all these things He's trying to not
• 1:09:55
  lose them right. Like for me, it's like I want to
• 1:09:58
  try and help that person that like, like you said, that can't
• 1:10:01
  relate to maybe somebody that's 10 years older because like just
• 1:10:05
  because I can kind of sometimes or I was able to, you know, I
• 1:10:10
  was really, I found a couple solid guys and I and I hung
• 1:10:13
  around with them and they instilled a lot of knowledge
• 1:10:16
  into me. But like, like you said, for
• 1:10:20
  that, for that 19 or 20 year old out there that feels like
• 1:10:25
  there's no one out there that can relate to them.
• 1:10:27
  Like I can relate and I've been there and I'm not no expert, but
• 1:10:31
  I'm just trying to give my experience and what I've done
• 1:10:37
  throughout my sobriety that like could maybe help the next
• 1:10:40
  person. And if I can help one person,
• 1:10:42
  that's that's what I'm trying to do.
• 1:10:43
  Cool. Love it, brother.
• 1:10:44
  Thanks so much. I appreciate you.
• 1:10:45
  I appreciate you buddy. Thanks for listening.
• 1:10:48
  Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
• 1:10:52
  for more content. The discussions and stories
• 1:10:54
  shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
• 1:10:57
  purposes only. This content is not a substitute
• 1:11:00
  for professional medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy.
• 1:11:04
  If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
• 1:11:07
  please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
• 1:11:10
  or mental health professional. You are no longer