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What Have We Learned About These Cards? Bloom Staying the Course? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory
0:11
Speaker 1: and it is a no professional athlete episode. Jim Mays
0:16
Speaker 1: alongside Jeff Jones of the Belville News Democrat and John
0:20
Speaker 1: Denton of Roundtable Sports. Gentlemen, A lot to talk about,
0:24
Speaker 1: but first there's a pitch. We always do it this way. See,
0:28
Speaker 1: we're trying to get to the seven thousand subscribers. Blue
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0:40
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Speaker 1: subscribe to Cardinal Territory. Well, look, the Cardinals just keep
0:48
Speaker 1: winning and winning and winning. So I'm going to start
0:52
Speaker 1: with you, Jeff. Outside of don't intentionally walk, JJ weatherho
0:59
Speaker 1: to load the bases pitched to Yvonne Herrera, what have
1:01
Speaker 1: we learned about this ball club in the thirty five games,
1:05
Speaker 1: outside of a lot of winning.
1:08
Speaker 2: You know, I think what sort of stands out to me,
1:10
Speaker 2: especially here over the last two or three weeks. So
1:12
Speaker 2: the starting pitching has really stabilized, right. There were a
1:15
Speaker 2: couple of starts early in the season, Dustin Mace first
1:17
Speaker 2: two in particular, that were a little uneven. They were
1:20
Speaker 2: a little bit ragged, and that that sort of made
1:22
Speaker 2: you wander how well they were going to be able
1:24
Speaker 2: to sustain any success they had because the bullpen has
1:27
Speaker 2: not quite been as stable as they might like it
1:29
Speaker 2: to be. But the rotation, to their credit, that they've
1:31
Speaker 2: really sort of righted the ship. You know, they don't
1:33
Speaker 2: have anybody who's going seven and striking out twelve, right,
1:36
Speaker 2: but they have guys who are reliably giving them five
1:39
Speaker 2: and six innings night in and night out, and getting
1:41
Speaker 2: out of the game with one, two, three runs allowed
1:43
Speaker 2: and putting them in a position where the bullpen just
1:46
Speaker 2: sort of has to hold behind an offense that's been
1:48
Speaker 2: one of the best offenses in the Big League. So
1:50
Speaker 2: the ability of the rotation to just be stable enough,
1:54
Speaker 2: I think is sort of an underrated part of why
1:56
Speaker 2: the success has been so strong. This's early going.
2:00
Speaker 3: Me.
2:00
Speaker 1: I look at the home run totals. I think maybe
2:02
Speaker 1: that's a miarage. I don't know, but one thing that's
2:05
Speaker 1: clear to me, John is they find different ways to win.
2:09
Speaker 1: Some games they'll break out the long ball. Other times
2:12
Speaker 1: they'll manufacture runs this team. And there's a lot of
2:16
Speaker 1: speed that they have to offer too, But this team
2:18
Speaker 1: can find different ways to win. What have you learned
2:21
Speaker 1: about this ball club?
2:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jim, you know, I think it's fitting that the
2:25
Speaker 3: Brewers in town because the Cardinals have kind of become
2:28
Speaker 3: the Brewers. Like every last year, everybody was like, why
2:30
Speaker 3: are the Brewers winning? Well, they're playing great defense, and
2:33
Speaker 3: they're running the heck out of the bases. If you
2:35
Speaker 3: miss a cutoff man, they're taking the extra ninety feet.
2:38
Speaker 3: If you ignore Pedro pie As at first base, he's
2:41
Speaker 3: going to take a base. You know, the base Steelers
2:44
Speaker 3: are going to steal bases, and the guys who aren't
2:46
Speaker 3: even expected to steal because they're getting tipped off by
2:49
Speaker 3: Stubby Clapp and Pop Warner, they're giving them the tells.
2:53
Speaker 3: And this team is making other teams pay. And you
2:56
Speaker 3: know what else have we learned. We learned that JJ
2:59
Speaker 3: Weatherholt is the real We've learned that Alec Burlson and
3:02
Speaker 3: Von Herrera are gonna hit. We've learned that if pitchers
3:05
Speaker 3: are foolish enough to throw the ball down the middle
3:08
Speaker 3: or in the inner half, Jordan Walker's gonna make them pay.
3:11
Speaker 3: And you know, they're getting contributions up and down this lineup.
3:15
Speaker 3: Like you said, they're fifth in baseball at home runs.
3:18
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think that's gonna hold up, but they're
3:21
Speaker 3: they're winning close games. They've got two studs at the
3:24
Speaker 3: back end of the bullpen with Jojo Romero and Riley O'Brien.
3:29
Speaker 3: If they can figure out the middle relief, if they
3:31
Speaker 3: can keep getting starters into the sixth inning, you know,
3:35
Speaker 3: it makes you I think maybe they can continue this.
3:37
Speaker 3: I don't think, you know, I don't think they're a
3:40
Speaker 3: ninety win playoff team. I know some projections show that,
3:43
Speaker 3: but they're a team that's gonna fight their butt off
3:45
Speaker 3: and play hard every night.
3:47
Speaker 1: So middle relief is something I think a lot of
3:50
Speaker 1: teams are looking for. Right what team has dominant guys
3:53
Speaker 1: in the middle. But it does leave me to my
3:55
Speaker 1: next question for you, Jeff. We all appreciate the way
4:00
Speaker 1: the team's playing. I think we all feel like maybe
4:03
Speaker 1: this is sustainable, though we're not positive. What are your
4:06
Speaker 1: concerns about this ball club? What are the things you
4:10
Speaker 1: think might keep them from keeping this ball rolling?
4:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are going to have to figure out some
4:18
Speaker 2: of what's going on in the bullpen, right, I think
4:20
Speaker 2: that some of that starts with the left handed relief.
4:22
Speaker 2: You know, Jojo Romero has been good. He had a
4:24
Speaker 2: little stretch here where he got touched up a little bit.
4:27
Speaker 2: In part that's because he's had to sort of have
4:30
Speaker 2: these multiple appearances, these multiple enning appearances. You know, there
4:33
Speaker 2: was a game over the weekend where Ryan Stanley got
4:35
Speaker 2: the first two in the seventh inning and then got
4:37
Speaker 2: into a little bit of trouble and Ali Marmal was
4:40
Speaker 2: going to have to have him run through some lefties
4:42
Speaker 2: at the bottom of the lineup of the Dodgers, simply
4:44
Speaker 2: because you know, as he mentioned postgame, they can't keep
4:47
Speaker 2: asking Romero to give them five and six out in
4:49
Speaker 2: a lot of these nights, right So, you know you're
4:51
Speaker 2: talking about justin Brule has more walks than strikeout right now,
4:54
Speaker 2: that's a little bit of a challenge for them. Jared
4:56
Speaker 2: Schuster is on the roster right now for the second
4:58
Speaker 2: time this season. He might look at some of those
5:01
Speaker 2: spots that Brule has gotten, you know, brueled to today
5:04
Speaker 2: and to his credit, has taken the ball a lot.
5:06
Speaker 2: He leads vnellen appearances right now out of the bullpen,
5:09
Speaker 2: but hasn't been really as effective as would have want
5:11
Speaker 2: him to be. You know, Gordon Grissefo got touched up
5:13
Speaker 2: a little bit last night, kind of for the first
5:15
Speaker 2: time this season, but has given up a decent amount
5:18
Speaker 2: of hard contact to date. Had been fortunate that the
5:21
Speaker 2: ball had kind of been on the ground and hadn't
5:23
Speaker 2: given up any homers before last night, but surrendered one
5:26
Speaker 2: last night. That gets O'Brien into the game blight, and
5:28
Speaker 2: again that that adds an appearance onto him, right, So
5:31
Speaker 2: they are going to have to figure out maybe two
5:33
Speaker 2: or three spots in that bullpen that they can cycle
5:35
Speaker 2: a little bit to get some more reliable outs because
5:37
Speaker 2: that will lengthen the game, that will make the starters
5:40
Speaker 2: look and be a lot more effective, and that will
5:42
Speaker 2: take off some of that burden on Romero, on O'Brien
5:45
Speaker 2: because you know, John's right, O'Brien's been fantastic so far,
5:48
Speaker 2: but he also has never really pitched a full season
5:51
Speaker 2: in the big leagues, right, so this would be sort
5:52
Speaker 2: of a new experience for him to be expected to go,
5:55
Speaker 2: you know, poll to poll, the way that the Cardinals
5:57
Speaker 2: might have to ask him to do, and taking some
6:00
Speaker 2: of that weight off of his shoulders is going to
6:01
Speaker 2: go a long way, especially if it's relevant that he's
6:04
Speaker 2: touching well in August and September.
6:07
Speaker 1: So to me, like middle relief, and maybe I'm wrong
6:10
Speaker 1: about it, you can patch that like a college dorm
6:13
Speaker 1: room that they're big holes. You take some toothpaste, let
6:16
Speaker 1: it dry, and paint it right. To me, it's a
6:18
Speaker 1: starting rotation. That's my biggest concern about what could go wrong.
6:22
Speaker 1: Last year, no one got hurt in the starting rotation,
6:26
Speaker 1: unheard of. And we've been around, We've seen years where
6:29
Speaker 1: you lose four or five year starters. So if and
6:32
Speaker 1: these are a bunch of guys that haven't thrown a
6:35
Speaker 1: lot of innings at the major league level, and that's
6:39
Speaker 1: a concern to me. And I think if a starter
6:43
Speaker 1: or two in the rotation gets blown out based on
6:46
Speaker 1: injury or something not right, then that could lead to
6:49
Speaker 1: a downward spiral. What do you think of that then?
6:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, yeah, that's definitely holds a big key because,
6:56
Speaker 3: like you said, like cal Lahy is still learning how
6:58
Speaker 3: to do this and he's still making this transition from
7:01
Speaker 3: the bullpen to starting, and a lot of people think, well,
7:04
Speaker 3: that just means throwing more pitches. No, that means navigating
7:07
Speaker 3: a lineup a third time and a fourth time. You know,
7:10
Speaker 3: I think cal Lay's faced like ten batters in the
7:13
Speaker 3: sixth inning this year. Eight of them have reached base,
7:16
Speaker 3: five of them have scored. That's because he's having to
7:19
Speaker 3: figure out how to get through a lineup a third time.
7:21
Speaker 3: You don't have to think about that when you're a reliever,
7:23
Speaker 3: but when you're a starter, you have to figure out
7:25
Speaker 3: ways to do that. And Andre Palante is getting swing
7:28
Speaker 3: and missed right now? Is that gonna hold up?
7:31
Speaker 1: You know?
7:31
Speaker 3: It certainly didn't hold up. Last year twenty five was dreadful.
7:35
Speaker 1: He didn't win a game.
7:36
Speaker 3: His last ten starts, he lost eight of them. But
7:39
Speaker 3: this year he's getting swing and miss Is that gonna
7:42
Speaker 3: hold up when you have to play at San Diego,
7:44
Speaker 3: when you have to go to Philly, you know, when
7:47
Speaker 3: when you have to face the Yankees and go to
7:50
Speaker 3: La Is that is that something that's gonna hold up.
7:53
Speaker 3: Matthew Libator really hit a lull and then he worked
7:56
Speaker 3: on his slider and figured some things out this last outing.
8:00
Speaker 3: He's not a guy who's ever going to get a
8:01
Speaker 3: lot of swing and myths, so you know, he's got
8:03
Speaker 3: to kind of live on the margins too. So you know,
8:06
Speaker 3: you wonder, Jim, if this can hold up, you know,
8:10
Speaker 3: if this can hold up all season. Right now, starters
8:12
Speaker 3: era is eighth in the National League. Like, you know,
8:15
Speaker 3: that's probably not a playoff team's er for the starters.
8:19
Speaker 3: They're going to need to be better than that for
8:21
Speaker 3: this to be sustainable.
8:24
Speaker 1: Last eight games though a lot better. But look, I'm
8:27
Speaker 1: a former rights holder, so I like to be positive
8:30
Speaker 1: about things. So let's imagine. Let's just imagine that they
8:34
Speaker 1: continue to play this kind of baseball and you get
8:38
Speaker 1: near the trade deadline and you're going to be sellers.
8:41
Speaker 1: He picked up guy. Obviously, I'm gonna flip that guy.
8:44
Speaker 1: I'm gonna flip that guy because we're building towards the future.
8:47
Speaker 1: So I have a two part question first, and I'll
8:50
Speaker 1: start with you on this, Jeff. Is it way too
8:53
Speaker 1: early to even start talking about what heim Bloom should
8:57
Speaker 1: do at the trade deadline? Or is that part of
8:59
Speaker 1: the funnel or is it an atiotic direction for me
9:02
Speaker 1: to bring this show.
9:04
Speaker 2: Well, I what we're about five or six weeks out
9:07
Speaker 2: of Mike Clayborn Memorial Flag Day, the well known guidepost
9:12
Speaker 2: of which we're all supposed to turn on whether a
9:13
Speaker 2: team is good or bad. So maybe it's a little
9:16
Speaker 2: bit too early, but I do think it is at
9:18
Speaker 2: least worth keeping an eye on, because there is gonna
9:20
Speaker 2: be conversation about this that's going to get louder throughout
9:23
Speaker 2: the season.
9:23
Speaker 1: You know.
9:23
Speaker 2: The longer this team is seven, eight, ten, twelve games
9:26
Speaker 2: above five hundred, the harder it's going to be to
9:29
Speaker 2: sell the necessity of selling these guys. And you know,
9:32
Speaker 2: I think a part of this that we haven't really
9:34
Speaker 2: gotten into is what it does to not only the
9:39
Speaker 2: morale in the clubhouse, but also to sort of the
9:41
Speaker 2: fan base at large. If they are in that spot
9:44
Speaker 2: and they continue kind of unabated on this path, that
9:47
Speaker 2: would lead them to sell off. That's the way they
9:49
Speaker 2: end up. Because this is a team who over the
9:51
Speaker 2: last two years has really bled off a lot of attendance,
9:54
Speaker 2: and I know that that makes a lot of folks
9:56
Speaker 2: down at the ballpark relatively nervous, and they need to
9:59
Speaker 2: see it ounce back, at least for the way that
10:01
Speaker 2: their financial models are constructed. And if you have a
10:04
Speaker 2: team that's even if they're not in first place in
10:06
Speaker 2: the division. If you have a team that's in that
10:07
Speaker 2: first or second wildcard spot and they're clear of the
10:10
Speaker 2: postseason line by like five games come the deadline, it's
10:13
Speaker 2: really hard to ask fans to accept that they're going
10:16
Speaker 2: to be in that spot and then also sell guys off.
10:19
Speaker 2: That would be a really difficult thing to do, and
10:23
Speaker 2: I'm really curious to see if they would be willing
10:25
Speaker 2: to do that.
10:27
Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating. That's why I bring it up now,
10:29
Speaker 1: because look, I'm not a plan. It's working, but they're
10:34
Speaker 1: also winning a lot, right So now you're thinking, well,
10:39
Speaker 1: this rebuild, maybe the plan has to offer. So John Denn,
10:42
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put you in charge. You're the president of
10:45
Speaker 1: Baseball operations right now as it stands. Don, Let's pretend
10:49
Speaker 1: we're getting close to the trade deadline and the Cardinals
10:52
Speaker 1: are still winning. All these pieces that you brought in
10:55
Speaker 1: to help now and to flip to benefit the club
10:59
Speaker 1: down the road. Are you still flipping or would you
11:02
Speaker 1: change course?
11:04
Speaker 3: You know, Jim, I go back to what him said
11:06
Speaker 3: all along. We're not gonna let short term goals get
11:09
Speaker 3: in the way of long term success. And short term
11:12
Speaker 3: goals is trying to win the second wild card.
11:15
Speaker 1: Uh.
11:16
Speaker 3: You know, I know that's something fans are excited about.
11:18
Speaker 3: And you don't ever pass up a chance to make
11:21
Speaker 3: the playoffs because you never know what can happen. Just
11:23
Speaker 3: look at the two thousand and six Cardinals. You get
11:26
Speaker 3: in and crazy things can happen. But him is gonna
11:29
Speaker 3: stay the course. Like I you know, I'm kind of
11:32
Speaker 3: laughing about this right now. Him is the you know,
11:34
Speaker 3: the golden haired child. Everything he's touching so far is
11:38
Speaker 3: turning great. He's turned Jordan Walker into a you know,
11:42
Speaker 3: an all star.
11:43
Speaker 1: Uh.
11:43
Speaker 3: He's got a roster that that's seven and one against
11:46
Speaker 3: winning teams right now. But what's gonna happen in the
11:49
Speaker 3: city when he says, you know, well, you know what,
11:51
Speaker 3: I think we're gonna trade Jojo Romero. I think we're
11:53
Speaker 3: gonna see what we can get for dustin May. It's
11:56
Speaker 3: gonna be interesting to see how the city reacts to that,
11:59
Speaker 3: how they look at him. You know, it's it's, of course,
12:02
Speaker 3: it's all going to depend on where they are in
12:04
Speaker 3: the standings. But you know, I just go back to
12:07
Speaker 3: what he said, and I feel like he's very resolute.
12:10
Speaker 3: We're not going to let short term goals get in
12:12
Speaker 3: the way of long term success. If you can flip
12:15
Speaker 3: Dustin May for a good prospect, you're going to do that.
12:18
Speaker 3: If you can turn Riley O'Brien, who has had a
12:21
Speaker 3: great season, but like Jeff said, he's never pitched a
12:23
Speaker 3: full season, he's on the wrong side of thirty, if
12:26
Speaker 3: you can flip him into a big time prospect. I
12:29
Speaker 3: tend to think that him's going to do that. So,
12:32
Speaker 3: you know, he's getting all the praise. Now, let's see
12:34
Speaker 3: how the fans are going to react if he pulls
12:36
Speaker 3: the trigger on some of these moves and you know,
12:38
Speaker 3: maybe the team's in the second wild card or third
12:40
Speaker 3: wild card, and I think if he does, you know,
12:43
Speaker 3: he's got to stick to his master plan of long
12:46
Speaker 3: term success, building this thing sustainable and not going for
12:50
Speaker 3: the sugar high of making the third wildcard.
12:53
Speaker 1: Okay, So I think some of the reasons him and
12:56
Speaker 1: the Cardinals have kind of pulled some fans home over
13:00
Speaker 1: to their side is he's up front, he's engaging with
13:03
Speaker 1: him and he has a plan and so far the
13:05
Speaker 1: pieces to the plan seem like they make an awful
13:08
Speaker 1: lot of sense. However, Jeff, and I'll ask you this,
13:11
Speaker 1: this is why I disagree with DN. To me, we've
13:15
Speaker 1: seen it before. It doesn't matter if you're a wild card.
13:17
Speaker 1: You have a chance. And I know John said he
13:19
Speaker 1: understands this. To me, there's a window of opportunity you
13:24
Speaker 1: crawl through it. That doesn't mean you make every trade
13:26
Speaker 1: you could. It doesn't mean you're you're bringing in, you know,
13:30
Speaker 1: a high dollar veteran guy. I'm saying, do you have
13:34
Speaker 1: to flip every piece that might help you now, that
13:37
Speaker 1: might bring you something back? You're the president of baseball ops.
13:40
Speaker 1: How do you handle that? You know?
13:43
Speaker 2: I think that there are basically like three paths right
13:45
Speaker 2: that you get to come July. There is the path
13:48
Speaker 2: where the bottom falls out over the next month and
13:50
Speaker 2: a half and they're just sellers and we all go, yeah,
13:52
Speaker 2: that's what we expected. There's also the path where they
13:55
Speaker 2: catch fire and we get to the deadline and this
13:57
Speaker 2: team is fifteen, eighteen, twenty games of five hundred and
14:00
Speaker 2: at that point, what can you do if that's a
14:02
Speaker 2: contender and you have to act accordingly. I do think
14:05
Speaker 2: like I think, I think JD is right that over
14:07
Speaker 2: the long term that I'm gonna be resolute about sticking
14:09
Speaker 2: to that plan. And I really don't foresee a scenario
14:13
Speaker 2: where they are trading from like the top end of
14:16
Speaker 2: their prospect depth, right Like Tanner Franklin is not getting
14:19
Speaker 2: trader at the deadline, you know, like the guys like
14:21
Speaker 2: that are not getting moved to the deadline. But I
14:23
Speaker 2: do think there is maybe a universe where, for example,
14:26
Speaker 2: you know, we've talked a lot about the depth they
14:29
Speaker 2: have at catcher, if there is a trade that makes
14:32
Speaker 2: them short term better and also addresses some of that
14:36
Speaker 2: backup they have with with with both Jimmy Crooks and
14:39
Speaker 2: Leo Bernal at Memphis. I don't know that that's necessarily
14:43
Speaker 2: a thing that they can't consider, just because of the
14:47
Speaker 2: way that that also serves a long term goal, right
14:49
Speaker 2: there is a way to serve a long term goal
14:51
Speaker 2: while also addressing a short term need. The third path,
14:54
Speaker 2: and the one that I think is gonna be the
14:55
Speaker 2: most complicated and really the one that is probably the
14:59
Speaker 2: most likely based where they're at in the standings right now,
15:02
Speaker 2: is that path where they are between six and twelve
15:05
Speaker 2: games above five hundred. They're the first wildcard, they're the
15:08
Speaker 2: second wild card, and they're getting calls on their guys
15:10
Speaker 2: and teams wanting to know if they're going to sell.
15:13
Speaker 2: I think in a situation like that, maybe what you
15:15
Speaker 2: do is you're setting prices for guys, and if teams
15:17
Speaker 2: meet those prices, then you're willing to make those deals happen,
15:21
Speaker 2: and if teams don't, then you don't. Right Like, there
15:24
Speaker 2: is probably not any scenario where Dustin May is getting
15:28
Speaker 2: his mutual option exercised on both halves just because if
15:32
Speaker 2: he pitches well enough that the Cardinals want to pay
15:34
Speaker 2: him twenty million dollars next season, he's gonna want to
15:36
Speaker 2: go to free agency. You know. There probably is not
15:39
Speaker 2: a scenario where Jojo Romero signs a big extension because
15:43
Speaker 2: he's a left handed reliever coming up on the later
15:45
Speaker 2: part of his career, and that's just not how that works,
15:48
Speaker 2: right So there are things that the Cardinals could do
15:51
Speaker 2: in that instance that maybe would weaken in a little
15:53
Speaker 2: in the short term, but that would still keep them
15:56
Speaker 2: afloat that kind of middle path, which I know that
15:59
Speaker 2: is usual a really dangerous spot to be in if
16:02
Speaker 2: you're a ball club. But I think that in a
16:04
Speaker 2: season like this where really anything that they do like competitively. Really,
16:09
Speaker 2: anything that looks like a team that could be in
16:10
Speaker 2: contention is kind of icing on the cake. I do
16:14
Speaker 2: think there is something to owing it to the players
16:16
Speaker 2: to allow them to finish that out, because that's the
16:19
Speaker 2: other part of it is what is the clubhouse reaction?
16:22
Speaker 2: What is the reaction to the guys like Yvon Herrera,
16:26
Speaker 2: Mason Wins, JJ Weatherholt whatever, guys that you expect to
16:28
Speaker 2: be around here for years to come. If they do overachieve,
16:32
Speaker 2: they get to the end of the season or they
16:34
Speaker 2: get to the deadline and they're really in the middle
16:36
Speaker 2: of the contention pack and they get their legs cut
16:39
Speaker 2: up from underneath them. That's tough because that's asking them
16:41
Speaker 2: to put a lot of trust into a plan that says,
16:44
Speaker 2: we don't believe you have it right now, but you
16:46
Speaker 2: might have it later. And if you're a twenty five
16:49
Speaker 2: year old ballplayer, you're looking around going we have it now?
16:51
Speaker 2: What we're winning games now?
16:53
Speaker 1: Right?
16:53
Speaker 2: It's one thing for us and for time to have
16:57
Speaker 2: a larger scale view of what a competitive window it
17:00
Speaker 2: looks like. I don't think players see it in the
17:02
Speaker 2: same way, and I think that there is something to
17:04
Speaker 2: making sure that the clubhouse stays on board with that plan.
17:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think fans would see it that way also,
17:11
Speaker 1: And you can't cut the legs out from one of
17:13
Speaker 1: the fans either. That's an important part. John Denton brought
17:16
Speaker 1: that up. We're gonna take a quick break here. You're
17:18
Speaker 1: watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
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18:23
Speaker 1: Denton and Jeff Jones and John, I know you're with
18:27
Speaker 1: Roundtable Sports. Tell me about that.
18:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Jim, it's a it's a it's a
18:31
Speaker 3: startup website. We're trying to build it up now. All
18:34
Speaker 3: the articles are syndicated by Yahoo.
18:37
Speaker 1: Uh.
18:38
Speaker 3: We're trying to get Cardinal fans to to come and
18:41
Speaker 3: join the community and and interact and read all the stuff,
18:44
Speaker 3: interact with other fans. And you know, if Cardinal fans
18:47
Speaker 3: out there could could come and join roundtable, man, that
18:50
Speaker 3: would be a huge boost for me. And uh, you know,
18:52
Speaker 3: I love Cardinal fans because they're they're smart baseball fans.
18:56
Speaker 3: They understand the game, and uh, you know, I think
18:58
Speaker 3: we have a lot of goods intelligent conversation there. So
19:01
Speaker 3: I'd love for Cardinal fans to come and join the
19:04
Speaker 3: join the community at Roundtable Sports.
19:06
Speaker 1: They are the best fans in baseball. I'll say that.
19:08
Speaker 1: That's a that's an OMASI Joe Strautch, but I believe
19:11
Speaker 1: they are. Jeff. Now, you right for the Belleville News Democrat,
19:14
Speaker 1: but you also have your own blog sort of thing.
19:18
Speaker 1: Tell us about then, how can someone get access?
19:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're if you're very happy reading my stuff
19:24
Speaker 2: as you always have with the B and D, it's
19:25
Speaker 2: still there at BND dot com. We'd love to have
19:27
Speaker 2: you subscribe to The New Democrat. You know that that's
19:30
Speaker 2: that's my paper when I was a kid, and I'm
19:31
Speaker 2: very proud to be there as often as I am.
19:34
Speaker 2: The other part of what I've been doing thus far
19:36
Speaker 2: this year is words about the words about birds dot
19:39
Speaker 2: com that'll forge you directly to the to the site
19:42
Speaker 2: there where you can sign up. Uh. The way I've
19:44
Speaker 2: been describing it to folks is it's sort of like
19:46
Speaker 2: DVD special features. Right, you watch the movie, you get
19:48
Speaker 2: the story. But if there's more stuff you're interested in,
19:50
Speaker 2: more behind the scenes stuff, that is what is there
19:53
Speaker 2: for you. Yesterday, for example, yesterday was May fourth, it
19:56
Speaker 2: was Star Wars Day. UH made Michael McGreevy yank out
19:59
Speaker 2: his phone and Rea to me his list of the
20:01
Speaker 2: ranking of Star Wars movies. We had a long conversation
20:05
Speaker 2: about the relative qualities of the Phantom Menace, which were
20:09
Speaker 2: recreated in transcription for you there on the website to read.
20:13
Speaker 2: So running a quick little three day sale here through
20:15
Speaker 2: the end of the Brewer series nineteen dollars and seventy
20:17
Speaker 2: seven cents because you know sar War's come out in
20:19
Speaker 2: seventy seven, right, pretty good. Nineteen seventy seven gets you
20:22
Speaker 2: four months of access to words about birth. May be
20:24
Speaker 2: thrilled to have you, all.
20:26
Speaker 1: Right, I'm glad we wanted a little pitch, not the
20:28
Speaker 1: hour long infomercial, but you made good work of it.
20:32
Speaker 1: Let me ask him about Jordan Walker, okay, because he's
20:37
Speaker 1: having a great season, terrible spring. They fixed him, got
20:41
Speaker 1: off to hot start, and pitchers adjusted, then he adjusted
20:45
Speaker 1: and he got hot again. And John, I might wrong
20:48
Speaker 1: about this, but I'm watching him. I'm watching his head
20:51
Speaker 1: bats and sure he's learned to lay off pitches. He
20:56
Speaker 1: has better selection at the plate, right, But the swing
20:59
Speaker 1: looks very similar. It looks similar to when he came
21:02
Speaker 1: back from double A, where the main thing is body
21:06
Speaker 1: moving forward. Am I wrong? Did they do a lot
21:10
Speaker 1: of fixes on Walker that didn't necessarily hold? And now
21:14
Speaker 1: we're seeing Jordan just being.
21:16
Speaker 3: Jordan's Yeah, Jim, you know, the first thing Jordan will
21:20
Speaker 3: tell us every single time we talk to him is
21:22
Speaker 3: when I step in the box, I don't want to
21:24
Speaker 3: think about my swing. I don't want to think about mechanics.
21:27
Speaker 3: I don't want to think about my hip placement. I
21:30
Speaker 3: don't want to think about my shoulder and all this.
21:32
Speaker 3: He wants to be athletic, he wants to be instinctual.
21:35
Speaker 3: The worst thing he can do is be a robot
21:37
Speaker 3: in the batter's box. So, you know, I think it's
21:40
Speaker 3: a big thing that he got off to this great start.
21:43
Speaker 3: He had eight home runs in the first three weeks,
21:45
Speaker 3: and then he just you know, fell off a cliff.
21:48
Speaker 3: Battling his way out of That tells you a lot
21:50
Speaker 3: about where he is now. His work habits are a
21:53
Speaker 3: lot better, you don't. You don't see Jordan taking naps
21:57
Speaker 3: around the facility anymore. You see him there early, you
22:00
Speaker 3: see him watching film, You see him talking with Casey
22:03
Speaker 3: Cheniwick after every bat. By the way, I think Casey
22:06
Speaker 3: Cheniwth should ask for a contract extension right now. His
22:09
Speaker 3: stock is probably never going to be higher with what
22:12
Speaker 3: he's done with Jordan. Walker. But you know, Jordan's not
22:14
Speaker 3: flying open as bad, And like you said, his swing
22:18
Speaker 3: looks the same Jim, but he's swinging at different pitches.
22:21
Speaker 3: He's not swinging at the ball that's two inches off
22:24
Speaker 3: the plate. He's seeing the slider out of the guy's
22:26
Speaker 3: hand and laying.
22:27
Speaker 2: Off of it.
22:28
Speaker 3: And sometimes if you can just foul that pitch off,
22:31
Speaker 3: or if you can lay off that pitch, you can
22:33
Speaker 3: buy yourself another pitch. And maybe that's down the middle
22:36
Speaker 3: or maybe that's on the inner half. And we all
22:38
Speaker 3: know he's gonna punish it when they do that. So
22:41
Speaker 3: I'm shocked that any pitcher on the planet throws him
22:43
Speaker 3: anything down the middle or on the inner half. I
22:46
Speaker 3: think they should all throw everything away. But you know,
22:49
Speaker 3: Jordan has shown he's staying on that pitch better, he's
22:52
Speaker 3: hitting it back up the middle better, he's hitting it
22:54
Speaker 3: the right field better. And you know, I think it
22:56
Speaker 3: was a big deal that he dug his way out
22:58
Speaker 3: of that little mini slump and came back to where
23:00
Speaker 3: he was early in the season.
23:02
Speaker 1: That's a great point. And if I'm a pitcher not
23:05
Speaker 1: over the plate nowhere, it's nothing because he destroys baseballs.
23:09
Speaker 1: But what are you seeing, Jeffer, Is it as we
23:12
Speaker 1: kind of laid out that it's Jordan just being more
23:16
Speaker 1: selective and less to do with the technical side of things.
23:19
Speaker 1: How do you look at it?
23:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean if you look at video side by side, right,
23:23
Speaker 2: you can see he's a little more closed, he's a
23:26
Speaker 2: little more vertical. There are things that you can see
23:28
Speaker 2: that are about him physically, like year over year. But
23:31
Speaker 2: I think more importantly and and and JD I think
23:34
Speaker 2: nailed this is the approach right Like there was there
23:38
Speaker 2: was a day where we were talking about this in
23:39
Speaker 2: the office of Olive Marble, and he described it in
23:41
Speaker 2: a way that I thought made a lot of sense,
23:43
Speaker 2: which is the way the walker is looking at it
23:46
Speaker 2: is the work comes to here, then it stops. Then
23:49
Speaker 2: the game is from here to here, whereas over the
23:52
Speaker 2: last couple of years it's been the work is here,
23:53
Speaker 2: but it then just sort of slides and lays on
23:56
Speaker 2: top of the game and it becomes a situation where
23:59
Speaker 2: every at bat becomes a sort of mental battle. And
24:02
Speaker 2: that is a really hard way to hit in the
24:04
Speaker 2: big leagues. If every instant you're spent thinking my hip
24:08
Speaker 2: needs to be here, my hands need to be here.
24:10
Speaker 2: This needs to be my cue to do this. Then
24:12
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, when the ball starts spinning, your
24:14
Speaker 2: pitcher recognition it's not going to be nearly as good
24:16
Speaker 2: as it might be, or your anticipation of what might
24:19
Speaker 2: happen in account is not going to be nearly as
24:20
Speaker 2: good as it might be because your brain is so
24:22
Speaker 2: dialed in so many different directions. And really getting Walker
24:26
Speaker 2: into a spot where he is able to trust that
24:28
Speaker 2: instinct and be free and just swing the bat puts
24:32
Speaker 2: him into a much better position and takes away some
24:35
Speaker 2: of the impediments that maybe we're not allowing him to
24:38
Speaker 2: access that athleticism, not allowing him to get the kind
24:41
Speaker 2: of results that he might want to get. And you know,
24:45
Speaker 2: as much as maybe pitchers don't want to come inside
24:48
Speaker 2: the Jordan Walker, if the alternative is walking him constantly,
24:53
Speaker 2: that's tough for pictures, especially because you know, we just
24:56
Speaker 2: saw Alec Burlison win NL Player of the Week hitting
24:58
Speaker 2: in front of him, and we saw Vonnor, who's a
25:00
Speaker 2: top five OBP guy in baseball, hitting in the two hole,
25:03
Speaker 2: and we saw JJ weatherhole as leading off. Those three
25:06
Speaker 2: guys in front of Jordan Walker also make things a
25:10
Speaker 2: lot easier for Jordan, because they are going to be
25:12
Speaker 2: guys on base. There's going to be pressure on pitchers,
25:15
Speaker 2: and they can't just waste sliders away over and over
25:18
Speaker 2: and over and over, because then they're talking about two
25:20
Speaker 2: on one out and they're putting the game into even
25:23
Speaker 2: more difficult situations. And so I think it's a combination
25:26
Speaker 2: of the lineup ahead of him being aspective as they
25:29
Speaker 2: have been, and him just allowing himself to be the
25:32
Speaker 2: hitter that he kind of always has been, but buried
25:35
Speaker 2: underneath several layers of kind of a difficult mental trap
25:38
Speaker 2: he may have fallen into over the last couple of years.
25:41
Speaker 1: Last cent kind of a similar story. Victor Scott the
25:45
Speaker 1: second is a weapon, right, I mean, his natural ability
25:49
Speaker 1: makes him a game changer, but having trouble hitting, so
25:53
Speaker 1: they tried this and leveled out his swing. Then that
25:55
Speaker 1: let him go back to the uppercut the first series,
25:58
Speaker 1: first game of the series against the Brewers, couple hits,
26:01
Speaker 1: laid down a bunch, looked like the Victor Scott that
26:04
Speaker 1: is the game changer guy. Where is he right now?
26:06
Speaker 1: In your view?
26:07
Speaker 3: John jim Olli told a great story last night. He
26:11
Speaker 3: said he was leaving Bush Stadium the other night. He
26:13
Speaker 3: was eleven forty and five at night, long day at
26:16
Speaker 3: the ballpark and he hears somebody hitting in the cage
26:18
Speaker 3: and he's like, wonder who that is, And he goes
26:20
Speaker 3: down there and it's Victor Scott, and that sums up
26:23
Speaker 3: who Victor Scott is. Like anybody who's been around him,
26:26
Speaker 3: you cheer for him because he is a worker. He
26:29
Speaker 3: cares about his craft. He's as genuine as anybody in
26:32
Speaker 3: that clubhouse. And you know he's going to put in
26:35
Speaker 3: the work. And if you look at his numbers over
26:38
Speaker 3: his career, the kid hits fastballs, he can't hit spin.
26:42
Speaker 3: And here lately he's starting to drive that spin the
26:45
Speaker 3: other way. Now, sometimes that's the line drive to the shortstop.
26:48
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's the line driver to the left fielder. But
26:51
Speaker 3: last night, in his last at bat, he drove the
26:53
Speaker 3: ball to the left center gap for a double. As
26:55
Speaker 3: fast as he was going around first, I thought he
26:57
Speaker 3: may be trying for three, and I think he thought
27:00
Speaker 3: about it for a second. We all know if Victor
27:03
Speaker 3: can get up on base with a single, it's gonna
27:05
Speaker 3: turn into a double. He's just that fast. On the bases.
27:09
Speaker 3: He's just got to find find a way to hit spin.
27:13
Speaker 3: They're they're gonna keep throwing him sliders and busting him in.
27:16
Speaker 3: They're gonna throw him curves and all speed pitches until
27:20
Speaker 3: he proves he can, you know, hit those balls they're
27:23
Speaker 3: gonna hit. They're gonna keep throwing it to him. So
27:25
Speaker 3: I think he's done a better job of hitting the
27:26
Speaker 3: ball back up the middle, hitting the ball the other way,
27:29
Speaker 3: and you know, he's putting in the work and that's
27:31
Speaker 3: why it's happening.
27:33
Speaker 1: And he does seem to be trending in a positive
27:35
Speaker 1: direction right now. Jeff, do you think he's closer to
27:39
Speaker 1: where he needs to be. We're talking about Victor Scout
27:41
Speaker 1: the second. Yeah.
27:42
Speaker 2: I think last night Monday night that came in against
27:45
Speaker 2: Milwaukee was definitely a good indication of where things are going.
27:48
Speaker 2: I do think one of the really tricky things for
27:51
Speaker 2: Victor is going to be, you know, Lars Noopar is
27:54
Speaker 2: gonna be back off the il right around June first.
27:56
Speaker 2: It seems like he's gonna be about a week past
27:58
Speaker 2: that sixty day Lark to get up to speed. Probably
28:01
Speaker 2: will be in a lineup somewhere in the system a
28:03
Speaker 2: week from today. So that puts, you know, not a
28:08
Speaker 2: permanent clock on Victor Scott, but it does put pressure
28:11
Speaker 2: on him because you know, Nathan Church is not quite
28:15
Speaker 2: as good a defender. He's got a little better throwing arm,
28:17
Speaker 2: but he doesn't have quite as good to read the
28:18
Speaker 2: ball to the center. He's definitely that quite as fast,
28:21
Speaker 2: He's not quite as good a bunter, all of those
28:24
Speaker 2: things that he made a little behind Scott in. But
28:26
Speaker 2: he has been a much much, much more productive hitter
28:30
Speaker 2: thus far this season, and he is still a plus
28:32
Speaker 2: defender and still a guy who can handle center field.
28:36
Speaker 2: And if Lars Nubar is back around June first and
28:40
Speaker 2: is pretty close to the guy that he has been
28:43
Speaker 2: throughout his career, it's gonna be a really difficult decision
28:47
Speaker 2: and a really difficult spot for the Cardinals to be
28:49
Speaker 2: in to continue to find spots for Victor Scott to
28:51
Speaker 2: stay in the lineup unless this next month looks a
28:54
Speaker 2: lot more like Monday Night did. Right, he does have,
28:57
Speaker 2: I think a relatively narrow window to demonstrate that he
29:02
Speaker 2: can consistently be that guy, because if instead he's consistently
29:05
Speaker 2: the guy where you know, the ops plus starts with
29:08
Speaker 2: a four, and the ops starts also with a four,
29:11
Speaker 2: and he's hitting one sixty. That's tough. It's really hard
29:14
Speaker 2: to hit that little and survive in the big leagues
29:17
Speaker 2: because if he's hitting that little, he's not able to
29:19
Speaker 2: access the parts of his game that are so disruptive.
29:23
Speaker 2: It's got to be a little bit better than that.
29:24
Speaker 2: It has to be, you know, maybe a little below
29:27
Speaker 2: average at the plate rather than half of league average
29:30
Speaker 2: at the plate. And if he can get to that,
29:32
Speaker 2: then I think the Cardinals will give him every opportunity
29:34
Speaker 2: to give it run. But we're going to have a
29:36
Speaker 2: relatively defined window here to see if he can access
29:40
Speaker 2: that with some consistency.
29:42
Speaker 1: Jeff Jones, John Denton, good stuff. Thanks for spending a
29:45
Speaker 1: little time with us, and that's gonna do it for
29:48
Speaker 1: this edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you next time.
29:51
Speaker 1: Hopefully that edition won't suck.