Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Girl shot in head, left in ditch by teens “annoyed” over her Snapchatting

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Girl shot in head, left in ditch by teens “annoyed” over her Snapchatting · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account,
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Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes.
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Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence,
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Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting
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Speaker 1: new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray Saturday's seven
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Speaker 1: sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen, the new
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Speaker 1: network for crime Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius
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Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. He is accused of
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Speaker 1: having tried to kill Desiree Turner. Prosecutors say she was
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Speaker 1: the victim of a vicious robbery at the hands of
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Speaker 1: two teen boys. According to court documents, the teen's planned
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Speaker 1: to rob and kill her. Des Race story is one
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Speaker 1: of survival. She was found laying in a ditch with
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Speaker 1: a gunshot wounded the head. She works everything to gain
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Speaker 1: as much quality for as she can, for her life
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Speaker 1: will never be the same. I am so thankful to
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Speaker 1: be here today to alfe this Ray. Turner chose this
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Speaker 1: shirt to reflect how she felt that she was minutes
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Speaker 1: away from walking out of a primary children's hospital. This
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Speaker 1: is happy on it, and I'm happy to go home.
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Speaker 1: I told me Dad that I am tougher than a bullet.
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Speaker 1: A fourteen year old little girl thought they liked her.
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Speaker 1: A fourteen year old little girl. I thought she was
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Speaker 1: having fun on snapchat with two guys a little bit
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Speaker 1: older than her, so when they asked her to meet
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Speaker 1: up with them after school, she thought it was a
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Speaker 1: great idea. She was reported missing that afternoon after school
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Speaker 1: when she never came home. She was found shot in
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Speaker 1: the head, bleeding out and a gully. I mean and see, Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Needless to say, I want justice. I am talking about
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Speaker 1: a beautiful little girl, Desiree. She's absolutely precious, dark brown hair,
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Speaker 1: big eyes, and I'm trying to imagine this girl. I
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Speaker 1: see the pictures of her in life, when she's whole
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Speaker 1: and healthy, and I'm trying to imagine her face down
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Speaker 1: in a gully, a dried out ravine full of mud,
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Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head. And I'm trying
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Speaker 1: to figure out why reporting now is that the boys
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Speaker 1: we're sick of her snapchatting them. They were quote annoyed,
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Speaker 1: in fact, as they planned her murder ahead of time.
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Speaker 1: They texted each other saying things like, let's get this done.
3:01
Speaker 1: Bro joining me right now. It'sycho analyst from l A Dr.
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, high profile criminal profiler Pat Brown with me
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Speaker 1: and Crime Stories investigative reporter Bobby Maxwell. Let's take it
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Speaker 1: from the top, Bobby, starting at a the beginning of
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Speaker 1: the story. How did this go down? How did Desiree
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Speaker 1: end up face down in a muddy ravine? Well, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: it all started on snapchat. She was expecting to purchase
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Speaker 1: a knife from Colter Peterson and Jason Decker. Sorry, but
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Speaker 1: that's not where it started. It started with them snapchatting
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Speaker 1: and having this relationship. They live in the same small
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Speaker 1: Utah town. True, the boys are older than her, their
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Speaker 1: sixteen and seventeen. She just turned fourteen. But they all
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Speaker 1: knew each other. I mean in a town that's small,
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Speaker 1: like the community where I came from, you know everybody.
4:00
Speaker 1: These were her friends. So they snapchatted and texted and
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Speaker 1: all that, and it was just a good old time
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Speaker 1: until they say, hey, we got a little pocket knife.
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Speaker 1: We know you want it, Come meet us at this
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Speaker 1: canal after school. Okay, take it from there, Bobby, I
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Speaker 1: want to establish these three were friends before the pocket
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Speaker 1: knife came into the scene. Go ahead, Well, they actually
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Speaker 1: met on snapchat and and Desiree considered the boys her friends.
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Speaker 1: They snapchatted a lot and um as many teens too,
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Speaker 1: and the boys one of them in particular, Coulter Peterson,
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Speaker 1: said that it got to be a little bit too much.
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Speaker 1: She was annoying by snapchatting. Now I want to go
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Speaker 1: out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. We have got two guys.
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Speaker 1: We've got Coulter Danny Peterson, seventeen years old. You know,
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Speaker 1: he's about to graduate from high school. He is a
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Speaker 1: couple of months shy of being a legal adult. Then
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Speaker 1: you have the sixteen year old. The sixteen year old
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Speaker 1: is to me part and parcel of the whole thing. Now,
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Speaker 1: that guy Jason Shay, as everybody called in, was in
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Speaker 1: it just as much as the now eighteen year old.
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Speaker 1: Tell me about that dynamic. Pat Brown, Well, Nancy, Usually
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Speaker 1: what we have when we see a duo get involved
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Speaker 1: in something is we do see a stronger one of
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Speaker 1: the pair, and I do believe that is Peterson. Uh So,
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Speaker 1: we have somebody who's really coming up with the idea,
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Speaker 1: and somebody was willing to go along with it because
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Speaker 1: it's pretty cool, and then he's gonna be buddies with
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Speaker 1: them and they're gonna have this exciting time together. Obviously,
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Speaker 1: either one of them could have said no, either one
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Speaker 1: of them could have backed out. But the fact that
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Speaker 1: they actually thought about it for a period of time
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Speaker 1: and then planned it and then went through with it
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Speaker 1: pretty much means that you have two willing people. So
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Speaker 1: I want to go I'm wanna move forward dot to
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall before I continue with the facts. The the
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Speaker 1: power play here between a seventeen year old now turning
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Speaker 1: eighteen year old and a sixteen year old and the
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Speaker 1: fourteen year old little girl just turned fourteen that seemed
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Speaker 1: to idolize these two. What's the dynamic there? What's so interesting?
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Speaker 1: And Pat Brown took the words right out of my
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Speaker 1: mouth that when boys kill often you see two males
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Speaker 1: acting in concert and you see a stronger, sometimes older
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Speaker 1: male who has more sociopathic tendencies that mail than recruits
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Speaker 1: a weaker mail. And I think the dynamic between the
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Speaker 1: three of them is that the weaker mail complained to
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Speaker 1: the stronger male that Desiree was bothering him. Now, knowing
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Speaker 1: how teenagers talk, I saw right through that too. I
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Speaker 1: like her, We're we're texting, we're snapchatting, but I don't
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Speaker 1: want you to know how much I like Desiree. The
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Speaker 1: older male seizes upon this in a cruel, malicious way
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Speaker 1: and says, hey, bro, I can take care of her
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Speaker 1: for you. The weaker mail then says, well to himself,
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Speaker 1: you know, maybe this is sort of unconscious internal dialogue.
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Speaker 1: While I like her, she's cute, but I really want
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Speaker 1: the admiration, the affection of this older guy. What am
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Speaker 1: I going to do? And the evil side wins out.
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Speaker 1: He allows himself to be drawn in and groomed into
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Speaker 1: becoming a perpetrator, and so slowly, over time, these two
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Speaker 1: males romanticized the idea of cruelty to the point where
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Speaker 1: they even contemplate slitting her throat. Nancy. This tells me
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Speaker 1: that the older male really had all these fantasies of
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Speaker 1: inflicting cruelty, and this is his m O in the world.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was wondering if you two were going
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Speaker 1: to seize on that. The idea, the first mode of
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Speaker 1: killing the fourteen year old little girl between these two
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Speaker 1: guys was to slit her throat. Now Dr Bethany, Dr
7:53
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall joining me psychoanalyst out of l A and
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Speaker 1: right now criminal profile or Pat Brown Alonge with Bobby Maxwell.
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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany. When you slit the throat of the victim,
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Speaker 1: that is an entirely different psychological event than cheating someone
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Speaker 1: at thirty, completely different scenario. Why absolutely, because there's the
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Speaker 1: infliction of pain and cruelty. This is not just wanting
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Speaker 1: to snuff her little life out. This is not wanting
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Speaker 1: to shoot her in the back of the head so
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Speaker 1: she does not know what's happening. This is wanting to
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Speaker 1: look the victim in the eye and her to know
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Speaker 1: what's happening to her. See So, one of the things
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Speaker 1: we know about cruelty and sadism with sociopaths um is
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Speaker 1: that the the infliction of cruelty is very linked with
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Speaker 1: sexual excitement for boys, aggression, sadism, and suse. But ever
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Speaker 1: since I've known you, somehow everything has to do with sex.
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Speaker 1: I hope it seriously cruel people, How can that can
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Speaker 1: everything be about sex? Okay? Because I don't know that.
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Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine now, yes it is. It's gone
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Speaker 1: through for those of us that have full time jobs
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Speaker 1: in nine year old twins, it's really hard to believe
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Speaker 1: that everything is about s e X. But go ahead
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Speaker 1: with your theory, Dr Mathanye, Okay, And it's not just mine.
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Speaker 1: This is really based on extensive research, and there's a psychoanalysts,
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Speaker 1: psychiatrists read Malloy out of San Diego, who writes really
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Speaker 1: beautifully about this, that with sociopathy there's a lot of
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Speaker 1: inner deadness, there's woredom that that that's okay, wait a minute,
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Speaker 1: wait a minute. Okay, I'm just a trial lawyer, okay,
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Speaker 1: sling around words like sycopathy and say no maxis m
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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You gotta break it down for us. Okay, now,
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Speaker 1: so what did you just say? It's speaking regular people
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Speaker 1: talk the sociopath. It's a spectrum disorder with narcissism. The
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Speaker 1: sociopath is a more intense, severe version of the narcissist,
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Speaker 1: the essential feature of which they cannot attach empathically with
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Speaker 1: people around them, and they cannot feel happy and stimulated
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Speaker 1: in life. They can't feel joyful simply from their own thoughts,
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Speaker 1: their own creativity, their own feelings, or if you hurt
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Speaker 1: somebody feelings, you might obsess on it. Sometimes I'll say
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Speaker 1: something to a patient or to a friend and afterwards
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Speaker 1: all saying, oh, did that hurt their feelings? Maybe maybe
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Speaker 1: they thought I was critical of them. We human beings
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Speaker 1: care about others and we have a great emotional life
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Speaker 1: that dictates that we care. But the sociopath has no
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Speaker 1: emotional life. They are completely empty, they are completely dead.
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Speaker 1: That's why part of the description of the disorder we
10:56
Speaker 1: read this in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
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Speaker 1: Disorders is the they have a proneness to boredom. And
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Speaker 1: that's why we have a saying and Pat Brown, I'm
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Speaker 1: sure has heard about this a lot, thrill kill. It's
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Speaker 1: when the m O, the modus upper on die behind
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Speaker 1: the killing, is to have thrill seeking behavior. So if
11:15
Speaker 1: we go back, they'll just have to excuse me because
11:18
Speaker 1: we're having a pow wow. Here. I've got Pat Brown,
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Speaker 1: Bobby Maxwell, and Bethany Marshall, and I could listen to
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Speaker 1: each one of them all day. Pat Brown, I think
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Speaker 1: I get what Bethany, Dr Bethany psycho well less out
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Speaker 1: of l A is saying, Pat Brown. And she says
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Speaker 1: thrill kill. When I think about this fourteen year old
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Speaker 1: little girl. I wonder I think maybe she had a
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Speaker 1: crush on these guys and was like totally thrilled that
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Speaker 1: they would have anything to do with her at all.
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Speaker 1: And to think that she could be an object of
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Speaker 1: a thrill kill? What is that, Pat Brown, you're the
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Speaker 1: criminal profiler. Well, well, let's take a look at regular
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Speaker 1: life and then then we can move it on to sociopaths.
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Speaker 1: What i'd call psychopaths. Uh at Bethany's right at the
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Speaker 1: the it's kind of a continuum. So take a look
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Speaker 1: at any imbalance of power. For example, a recent stuff
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Speaker 1: we're hearing from Hollywood. Right, So, so you get a producer,
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Speaker 1: a television producer. He's got the power. And then you
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Speaker 1: get the young ingenus and she goes to Hollywood and
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Speaker 1: she is just absolutely thrilled, isn't she. She's so excited.
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Speaker 1: She's young, she's not. She sees this big guy, Oh
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Speaker 1: my god, he represents the movies. I can be in
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Speaker 1: the movies. She has such putty in his hands. And
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Speaker 1: he gets his thrill out of being able to control
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Speaker 1: and manipulate and have power over her. And so the
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Speaker 1: two of them come together and each one of them
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Speaker 1: gets their thrill in their own way, and unfortunately the
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Speaker 1: man with the power, he has more of the control.
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Speaker 1: So now we move on to this particular incident, we
12:47
Speaker 1: have a similar situation, except with no extreme psychopath. Of
12:50
Speaker 1: course we don't know. Some of the Hollywood guys are
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Speaker 1: pretty psychopathic themselves, but perhaps not violent, but very psychopathic.
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Speaker 1: But here we have this Peterson and his buddy and
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Speaker 1: this young girl. And and of course you remember Bacter
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Speaker 1: being fourteen years old. How giddy you are when you're fourteen.
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Speaker 1: You know, everything is so exciting, you know everything new,
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Speaker 1: especially guy and the other thing. Pat Brown at fourteen,
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Speaker 1: you would never think, Wow, maybe I shouldn't go meet
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Speaker 1: two guys alone and a deserted canal space. But you
13:17
Speaker 1: know what that is not? They don't. They don't say
13:21
Speaker 1: behind the school. They meet at their friends houses. Most
13:23
Speaker 1: of the time they come home. You know, they're just
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Speaker 1: having fun with what they considered guys that are just
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Speaker 1: a little bit older. Pat, even I at my age,
13:32
Speaker 1: I will say, be out of town traveling for work,
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Speaker 1: and I go, okay, I'm gonna go jogging now, and
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Speaker 1: I'll joggle end up completely alone summer totally unfamiliar. I'm like, oh,
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Speaker 1: I'll just go ten more minutes before I turn out,
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Speaker 1: and I think, what the hey am I thinking? Hey, guys,
13:48
Speaker 1: holding on one moment, I want to pause very quickly
13:50
Speaker 1: and thank our sponsor, our partner who is making our
13:53
Speaker 1: program today possible. As we look for motive and understanding
13:58
Speaker 1: and the shooting of this fot in your old little girl,
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15:11
Speaker 1: live back to Utah, where now we learn that one
15:15
Speaker 1: of the young men they soon to be eighteen year old,
15:19
Speaker 1: admits shooting a fourteen year old girl in the back
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Speaker 1: of the head quote because she was annoying him on Snapchat.
15:28
Speaker 1: And Bobby Maxwell is joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter
15:32
Speaker 1: along with profile or Pat Brown and Dr Bethany Marshall,
15:35
Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of l A. Bobby Maxwell, this was a
15:39
Speaker 1: very well planned shooting of the fourteen year old girl,
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Speaker 1: Desiree Turner. They planned this far in advance. What facts
15:48
Speaker 1: lead you to believe that, Mobby, Well, they actually had.
15:52
Speaker 1: They were playing games, video games when they were making
15:54
Speaker 1: the decision. Um one said they were annoyed with Desiree
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Speaker 1: and and um uh Jason said, well, we can easily
16:02
Speaker 1: get rid of her. Um. So it took several days
16:04
Speaker 1: that first I wanted to do it with the slashing
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Speaker 1: of the throat, and um they thought actually shooting her
16:10
Speaker 1: would be um less noise or less distraction. So they
16:15
Speaker 1: they actually went through those different steps. So you're right,
16:17
Speaker 1: it wasn't just like an instant thought. They calculated and
16:21
Speaker 1: planned this all out. Not only that they actually go
16:23
Speaker 1: to one of their older brother's room and steal a
16:27
Speaker 1: twenty two caliber gun out from under his mattress. Uh,
16:32
Speaker 1: you know, Pat Brown criminal profile or with us, that
16:36
Speaker 1: is cold and calculated. And not only that, after they
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Speaker 1: shoot her and leave her to bleed out, a fourteen
16:43
Speaker 1: year old little girl just turned they steal her iPhone,
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Speaker 1: they steal her devices, They still her backpack, and I
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Speaker 1: think she had fifty five dollars on her. They steal
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Speaker 1: all of that, taking what they want out of it,
16:54
Speaker 1: and discarding some of it in a dumpster. I mean,
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Speaker 1: that is incredibly telling. I would have asked. One official
17:02
Speaker 1: said the motivation was greed. Well, you know, I don't
17:06
Speaker 1: know that I buy that particular motivation at all. I mean,
17:08
Speaker 1: first of all, we cannot believe anything that Peterson says.
17:12
Speaker 1: Let's let's look at this ridiculous Snapchat claim. Oh she
17:15
Speaker 1: bought she was bothering us on Snapchat, so that's why
17:17
Speaker 1: we killed her. Okay, this is called blaming the victim.
17:20
Speaker 1: You know Snapchat, you can just block somebody, you know,
17:24
Speaker 1: So first of all, the could have done that. Uh.
17:26
Speaker 1: And Secondly, even if she was annoying on Snapchat, of
17:29
Speaker 1: course this isn't really a reason to kill somebody. So
17:31
Speaker 1: I don't believe that for a minute. You know what,
17:34
Speaker 1: when I don't like somebody's emails or texts, don't ever answer.
17:38
Speaker 1: I don't even read them. I just keep going. I've
17:40
Speaker 1: got about three thousand unran right now my iPhone. F
17:42
Speaker 1: y I. So, you know, kill her, sheet her in
17:47
Speaker 1: the head, Dr Bethany Marshall, because they are quote annoyed,
17:51
Speaker 1: that's their word, not mine, and leave her to die,
17:55
Speaker 1: and Dr Bethany to steal her stuff, to steal her backpacks,
17:59
Speaker 1: to her iPod, steal her money, a little bit of
18:02
Speaker 1: money she had on her, and then take what they
18:05
Speaker 1: want out of her backpack and throw her stuff in
18:07
Speaker 1: a dumpster. What does that say to you? But that
18:10
Speaker 1: helped me. They wanted to degrade and to humiliate her.
18:13
Speaker 1: Um when they say she was bothering me, Not only
18:17
Speaker 1: is it minimizing the crime, minimizing their heinous actions and
18:21
Speaker 1: as Pat said, blaming the victim, but they're trying to
18:24
Speaker 1: imply that she was coming after them in some way,
18:27
Speaker 1: that she wanted them, and so in that way, they're
18:30
Speaker 1: trying to humiliate and disgrace her, the idea of just
18:33
Speaker 1: taking her iPhone, and it's as if she's their toy,
18:38
Speaker 1: their object um, she's bending to their will. They can
18:42
Speaker 1: do whatever they want with her and Nancy. At the
18:45
Speaker 1: beginning of the show, you talked about her lying face
18:47
Speaker 1: down in the gully and trying to imagine what that
18:50
Speaker 1: was like. They walked away from a fourteen year old
18:53
Speaker 1: lying face down in the dirt, bleeding out. This shows
18:59
Speaker 1: utter attempt for the victim, and the fact that they
19:02
Speaker 1: planned and schemed while they were playing video games tells
19:05
Speaker 1: me that this was a joke to them. This was
19:08
Speaker 1: a game. They enjoyed this. How does it get to
19:12
Speaker 1: be that life means nothing? I mean, how does a
19:17
Speaker 1: seventeen year old and a sixteen year old. They've gone
19:21
Speaker 1: through regular school, they had a nice school um, they
19:25
Speaker 1: had home, they had a family that took care of them.
19:28
Speaker 1: It reminds me a little bit of the Columbine shooter
19:32
Speaker 1: because it was a middle class, upper middle class area.
19:37
Speaker 1: They wanted for nothing and life meant nothing. It was
19:42
Speaker 1: like a video game to them. I hadn't thought of
19:44
Speaker 1: it that way. To shoot this girl over snapchatting Bethany,
19:49
Speaker 1: and I keep thinking, um, when you say it was
19:51
Speaker 1: a game to them, Um, we think about the Menendez brothers,
19:55
Speaker 1: Columbine DC Sniper again, all these cases where men act
20:00
Speaker 1: in concert, where an older, stronger male recruits a younger male.
20:05
Speaker 1: What we do see is total in consideration towards life.
20:09
Speaker 1: It says, it's as if people do not exist in
20:13
Speaker 1: the excitement of just picking people off is the m O.
20:17
Speaker 1: And you know, one one thing that all these crimes
20:19
Speaker 1: have in common is the humiliation of the victim. I
20:23
Speaker 1: mean the victims. I'll never forget, um, Jose and Kitty Menendez,
20:27
Speaker 1: how the Menendez boys said that the father molested them.
20:30
Speaker 1: I mean, they basically made the worst accusation they could
20:34
Speaker 1: towards their father to cover up their own heinous crime.
20:38
Speaker 1: And now, in their own like pickie Uni, small town,
20:41
Speaker 1: small minded kind of way, these two boys are saying, well,
20:45
Speaker 1: Desiree bothered us. It's always the victim's fault, and they
20:49
Speaker 1: always they always claim that the victim wanted them, not
20:54
Speaker 1: the other way around. Well, Desiree was texting us, she
20:57
Speaker 1: was snapchatting us, she was bothering us. When you full
21:00
Speaker 1: well they were obsessed with her. It was the other
21:03
Speaker 1: way around, you know. Speaking of what happened to the girl,
21:08
Speaker 1: twenty two caliber weapon was stolen from one of their
21:12
Speaker 1: older brothers out from under his mattress. If he knew
21:16
Speaker 1: about it, if he gave it to them, he's in
21:18
Speaker 1: trouble too. But the fact that he stole it from
21:22
Speaker 1: under their match under the brothers mattress indicates to me,
21:25
Speaker 1: if that's true, that the brother did not know about it.
21:28
Speaker 1: The bullet was lodged in little Desires brain with several
21:36
Speaker 1: other fragments still in her head when she was found.
21:42
Speaker 1: And another creepy fact that just makes my blood boil
21:50
Speaker 1: is that the second one. Um, there's Coulter Peterson and
21:55
Speaker 1: then there is the other one. Jason Decker. Decker wanted
22:00
Speaker 1: to ask. He asked if he could keep the bullet
22:05
Speaker 1: casing as a memento Bethany, and the bullet casing was
22:11
Speaker 1: found actually found on his window sill. I mean in
22:15
Speaker 1: my children's room. They have their soccer uh trophies, They
22:21
Speaker 1: have little mementos about Harry Potter and Disney. They have
22:25
Speaker 1: their wands of course photos from school, um class photos,
22:32
Speaker 1: That's what they have on their shelves. This guy has
22:34
Speaker 1: a bullet casing. Bethany helped me. We know, when I've
22:38
Speaker 1: read that, the fact that he kept the bullet casing
22:41
Speaker 1: as a memento, I thought about what we know about
22:46
Speaker 1: serial killers that often they keep a trophy. You know,
22:49
Speaker 1: there's a lock of hair, there's an item of clothing,
22:52
Speaker 1: there's a photograph. Well remember with the BTK killer he had,
22:55
Speaker 1: he had made that tape, He had all these mementos
22:58
Speaker 1: of clothing, and it made me wonder if these two
23:01
Speaker 1: boys had not been caught, if they were on their
23:04
Speaker 1: way to becoming serial killers. I know that sounds dramatic,
23:08
Speaker 1: but this is often how it starts. It's the person
23:11
Speaker 1: you don't suspect. It's the person from the good upbringing,
23:14
Speaker 1: the person who wears what we call the mask of sanity.
23:17
Speaker 1: They look normal on the surface, but you peep beneath
23:20
Speaker 1: the surface and there's all these a barren, deviant, bizarre
23:24
Speaker 1: behavioral patterns like keeping the shell casing, and you begin
23:28
Speaker 1: to think, what would the trajectory have been if this
23:30
Speaker 1: person had not been caught, What other mementos, what other victims?
23:35
Speaker 1: Because he seemed to take such great pride in this crime,
23:39
Speaker 1: you know, Alan, do you that is? Hold on? I've
23:42
Speaker 1: got to be bring Pat Brown in on this. But Alan,
23:44
Speaker 1: before I get Pat Brown in on keeping the twenty
23:47
Speaker 1: two shell casing, That's exactly how Tara grins dad's killer
23:52
Speaker 1: went under the radar for so long. We're talking about
23:55
Speaker 1: the hometown and beauty queen and Oscilla that was kid
24:00
Speaker 1: napped and murdered years ago. Her body has never been found.
24:04
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the chill that went down my spine
24:06
Speaker 1: when I went through her home with her mother. The
24:10
Speaker 1: guy that killed her was one of her students, high
24:14
Speaker 1: school students years before she went missing, and stayed under
24:18
Speaker 1: the radar, and nobody suspected him. And what Dr Bethany's
24:21
Speaker 1: saying is if these two had not been apprehended, what
24:23
Speaker 1: would be next? Alan? What about Tara Grinstead? The suspects
24:27
Speaker 1: in the Tara Grinstead killing stayed under the radar for
24:30
Speaker 1: about a dozen years while some other people probably knew
24:33
Speaker 1: about it. These guys just um just went undetected. And
24:37
Speaker 1: it is the could have the same thing could have
24:39
Speaker 1: happened with with these young men well, and also in
24:41
Speaker 1: Tara Grinstead, Alan, they were willing to let somebody else
24:46
Speaker 1: i A the boyfriend or the principle or whoever take
24:49
Speaker 1: the fall for a tar is kidnap and murder. That
24:52
Speaker 1: was fine with them as they sat back and had
24:54
Speaker 1: a beer on the sofa. You know, they didn't care.
24:56
Speaker 1: Somebody else could have definitely gone down for murder, but
25:00
Speaker 1: that did not bother them. So, Pat Brown, you are
25:03
Speaker 1: the world renowned criminal profiler, and that's a fact. Pat.
25:08
Speaker 1: What do you make of these two and the one
25:11
Speaker 1: asking to keep the bullet casing after the bullet goes
25:16
Speaker 1: into this little girl's brain, Well, you can see how
25:19
Speaker 1: how this has been like the most exciting, amazing thing
25:23
Speaker 1: he's ever done in his life. And that is the
25:25
Speaker 1: problem with serial killers and why we uh tend to
25:28
Speaker 1: not understand that when you cross a line like this,
25:33
Speaker 1: there's no going back. And I've always I've argued against
25:35
Speaker 1: the FBI's original uh statement where their definition a serial
25:40
Speaker 1: killer is a person who has committed three kills with
25:42
Speaker 1: downtime in between. So they did not actually label uh
25:46
Speaker 1: somebody a serial killer until they've done that or or
25:49
Speaker 1: or if they found us, say a woman who'd been
25:51
Speaker 1: raped and murdered and thrown in the bushes, they go, oh,
25:53
Speaker 1: we don't know if it's just a one off killing.
25:55
Speaker 1: And I would think to myself, wait a minute, who
25:58
Speaker 1: does this. Who steps over the line to you know,
26:00
Speaker 1: to grab a girl off the street and rape and
26:02
Speaker 1: murder her, except a serial killer. So you have someone
26:05
Speaker 1: if they did it one time and loved it that much,
26:08
Speaker 1: they're going to do it again if they have the opportunity.
26:11
Speaker 1: So I'm all good, I'm okay with one pretty much.
26:13
Speaker 1: Will tell us where it's going. So the problem is
26:16
Speaker 1: catching them before they do it two or three or
26:18
Speaker 1: four or maybe thirty more times. So we have these
26:21
Speaker 1: two young men. This is not normal, I mean because
26:23
Speaker 1: people say, well, maybe they had some problems. Problems, Uh yeah,
26:27
Speaker 1: some people have problems. They might go into the room
26:29
Speaker 1: and slam their door. They may yell at their parents,
26:31
Speaker 1: they may not want to do their homework. But to decide, well,
26:35
Speaker 1: let's let's kill somebody. Hey, let's kill this girl. We know,
26:38
Speaker 1: let's think about it, let's plan it, let's go do it.
26:41
Speaker 1: When you're like that, you're a psychopathic and you're already
26:44
Speaker 1: you've crossed that line and you are extreme danger to
26:46
Speaker 1: the community. Should never be out in the community again,
26:50
Speaker 1: you know, Pat Brown you were talking about, you do
26:53
Speaker 1: it once, you get away with it, and you do
26:54
Speaker 1: it again. I've got a comparison. I remember the first
26:57
Speaker 1: time I was in front of a jury and I
27:00
Speaker 1: had to tell them an opening statement what the defendant said,
27:05
Speaker 1: what the defendant had stated to police. And it was
27:10
Speaker 1: full of curse words, every slur on women, every curse
27:15
Speaker 1: word you can think of. They said the P word,
27:19
Speaker 1: the F word, the C word, the S word, everything.
27:23
Speaker 1: And I remember the moment, and I'm kind of feeling
27:27
Speaker 1: it right now that I stood in front the jury
27:31
Speaker 1: and I told them that, and they were shocked, and
27:33
Speaker 1: it felt it tasted bad coming out of my mouth.
27:36
Speaker 1: I had never said those words before. Guess what, pat
27:40
Speaker 1: the next time I had to do it. By the
27:41
Speaker 1: end of that trial, it was just coming right out,
27:43
Speaker 1: rapid fire. It didn't bother me anymore. And I saw
27:46
Speaker 1: that happening. It happened to me, and I had never
27:51
Speaker 1: cursed before that, And then suddenly got really easy to do.
27:57
Speaker 1: Now once the twins were born, they're about turned ten,
28:00
Speaker 1: I said, that's it with the mouth, because I don't
28:02
Speaker 1: want to hear that from my children. I don't have
28:04
Speaker 1: a leg to stand on if I say it and
28:06
Speaker 1: then I can't fuss it them for doing it, and
28:08
Speaker 1: it's it's not it's not becoming. So that's just a tiny, silly,
28:15
Speaker 1: little exampleing once you do something, it's easier to do
28:19
Speaker 1: it the next time. Then the next time, next thing,
28:21
Speaker 1: you don't even think about it anymore, especially if the results,
28:24
Speaker 1: you know the results when you cross the line, and
28:26
Speaker 1: the results make you happy. In the case of a psychopathy,
28:30
Speaker 1: when they crossed the line to be able to manipulate somebody,
28:32
Speaker 1: to get power over somebody, to abuse somebody, to come
28:35
Speaker 1: out the winner. Because that's what it's really about. Psychopaths
28:38
Speaker 1: always feel that they didn't win enough when they were little,
28:41
Speaker 1: you know, they couldn't get over on people, they couldn't
28:43
Speaker 1: get the responses they wanted. They didn't come out to
28:45
Speaker 1: be the superhero. So this is their way of having
28:48
Speaker 1: that moment in the sun, the same thing we see
28:49
Speaker 1: with with the mass murderers. That's their moment in the sun.
28:52
Speaker 1: Why keep mementos and we've seen I've seen serial killers
28:57
Speaker 1: that keep for instance, the victims underwear. Everybody keeps mementos,
29:02
Speaker 1: don't If people get married, don't they keep the piece
29:03
Speaker 1: of that wedding cake and the flour and all that stuff.
29:06
Speaker 1: Don't you go on a trip and bring back on
29:08
Speaker 1: garbage from from some other country and you know, stick
29:10
Speaker 1: it on your stick it on your wall, you know,
29:12
Speaker 1: your or your little ashtray that says, you know, Santa Fe,
29:16
Speaker 1: New Mexico or whatever. People always want mementos of their
29:19
Speaker 1: life because those are the special moments and their special moments.
29:22
Speaker 1: You know, we don't get momentos for no reason. They're
29:24
Speaker 1: the special tokens that when we look at back at them,
29:27
Speaker 1: you know, one walks to their house and they can
29:29
Speaker 1: see those those things that were saved from that special day.
29:32
Speaker 1: It gives us an extra moment of pleasure to be
29:34
Speaker 1: able to relive that wonderful moment. So for a serial killer,
29:39
Speaker 1: no keeping something where you can go, yeah, I remember
29:42
Speaker 1: when I killed that girl. It was great. You know,
29:45
Speaker 1: that is their big, huge achievement and it will give
29:47
Speaker 1: them that thrill over and over. Guys, I know that
29:51
Speaker 1: hearing much of this, it's hard sometimes, but the only
29:56
Speaker 1: way to fight crime and to fight injustice is to
30:01
Speaker 1: tackle it head on, and that's what we are doing today.
30:05
Speaker 1: On Crime Stories, desires father says that his daughter right now,
30:13
Speaker 1: should be practicing her karate. She should be riding her horse. There.
30:19
Speaker 1: We're from a very small town in northern Utah, out
30:23
Speaker 1: in the country, beautiful countryside. She should be living like
30:28
Speaker 1: every other farm girl in this country. Instead, she was
30:32
Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head and left to
30:35
Speaker 1: bleed out and die by two callous teens approaching adulthood.
30:42
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. I am so thankful to
30:47
Speaker 1: be here today, to the l A. I want to
30:49
Speaker 1: say thank you to all the doctors, nursis, techs, and
30:53
Speaker 1: therapists and stuff who have tea took such good care
30:57
Speaker 1: of you and helped me get this far. Y. I
31:01
Speaker 1: also want to thank all of the people who have
31:03
Speaker 1: helped take care of my family, especially my mom and
31:06
Speaker 1: my dad. While I have been in the hospital, I
31:10
Speaker 1: have been working really hard and still have a lot
31:13
Speaker 1: of work to do. I told my dad that I
31:15
Speaker 1: am tougher than a bullet. It is still with me today,
31:23
Speaker 1: but I am here and I get to go home today.
31:26
Speaker 1: People all over the world have been praying for me,
31:30
Speaker 1: some of them I note, and some I have never met,
31:33
Speaker 1: and they have never met me, but they cared for me,
31:39
Speaker 1: and they care for you. I would like others to
31:41
Speaker 1: note that people are kind and they do care about
31:45
Speaker 1: us and are concerned about us, even when we may
31:48
Speaker 1: think no one is there. I will always be grateful,
31:51
Speaker 1: grateful for the kindness that has been shown to me
31:56
Speaker 1: and my family. Thank you, Desiree. The little fourteen year
32:01
Speaker 1: old girl was put into a medically induced coma. It
32:07
Speaker 1: was too dangerous to remove the bullet from her brain
32:11
Speaker 1: or the fragments of bullet around it, so she will
32:15
Speaker 1: live for life the rest of her life with that
32:17
Speaker 1: in her head. If you were to see her right now,
32:22
Speaker 1: she is either in a wheelchair or walks with a cane.
32:27
Speaker 1: Her father broke down as he described her a riding
32:32
Speaker 1: horseback trying to practice her karate. What her life would
32:36
Speaker 1: have been now, he says through his tears. And he
32:40
Speaker 1: actually apologized for breaking down crying, which was so poignant
32:48
Speaker 1: to me that desires father apologized for crying, and he said,
32:56
Speaker 1: it's all about trying to give her quality of life now,
33:03
Speaker 1: that's all it's about. Instead of horseback and karate, she's
33:07
Speaker 1: just trying to learn to move her fingers right now.
33:13
Speaker 1: To Dr Bethany, I remember and you lived through this
33:18
Speaker 1: with me Bethany, when John David, my baby boy, one
33:23
Speaker 1: of my twins, had a horrible head injury, and we
33:27
Speaker 1: were in and out of doctors, in and out of
33:30
Speaker 1: the hospital. I would sleep with him in the hospital bed,
33:34
Speaker 1: and I wondered what was going to happen and how
33:38
Speaker 1: could I help him? How could I help John David
33:45
Speaker 1: have a normal life. While I was blessed, he was blessed.
33:50
Speaker 1: He's perfectly fine now, But I remember those nights in
33:53
Speaker 1: the hospital, laying awake, hearing the next shift of nurses
33:57
Speaker 1: come on, wondering about what would happen with John David,
34:01
Speaker 1: what would happen after I was gone, Who would take
34:04
Speaker 1: care of him, what would become of him? I can
34:08
Speaker 1: imagine that's what's going through desires mom and Dad's head
34:11
Speaker 1: right now. Bethany, Well, Nancy, you are preparing for him
34:16
Speaker 1: to have a major disability, to be a special needs child.
34:20
Speaker 1: Such a horrifying thought. And thank God, he's perfect. But Desiree,
34:26
Speaker 1: as you just said, she's struggling to move her fingers,
34:30
Speaker 1: she's struggling to be able to walk. Just getting through
34:33
Speaker 1: the day is a major effort for her. So she
34:37
Speaker 1: has a major trauma from this incident. Not only is
34:40
Speaker 1: she traumatized, but now her story is exposed to the nation,
34:44
Speaker 1: which is good for victims everywhere. But she has to
34:48
Speaker 1: deal with social humiliation, um, social exposure, and the trauma
34:53
Speaker 1: is not just for desiree, it's for her entire family
34:57
Speaker 1: and not just worrying about what happened. But if you
35:00
Speaker 1: so beautifully suggested through your experience with John David, now
35:04
Speaker 1: they have to worry about her future, her financial survival,
35:08
Speaker 1: her psychological survival, her physical survival. You know, Pat Brown,
35:13
Speaker 1: criminal profiler with me. I wonder if ever purps do
35:20
Speaker 1: things like this. I wonder if it ever dawns on them,
35:24
Speaker 1: the wake of pain they leave behind. No, No, no,
35:30
Speaker 1: absolutely not. You know. That's the whole thing, is that
35:34
Speaker 1: for a psychopath who commited for horrific crime to injure
35:38
Speaker 1: or kill someone, the simple fact that they could do
35:41
Speaker 1: it in the first place means they don't have any
35:44
Speaker 1: concern for that person's feelings, for their families feelings. I
35:47
Speaker 1: always remember the serial killer, Um, I'm gonna blank on
35:50
Speaker 1: his name now, but he was asked by a because
35:53
Speaker 1: that's by the detectives, if he would tell the family
35:56
Speaker 1: that the parents where their children were buried because they
35:59
Speaker 1: hadn't discovered some of the bodies. And he said, you know,
36:03
Speaker 1: taking get the parents of ease of mind, and he's
36:05
Speaker 1: the serial killer. Look at the detectives. And he said,
36:08
Speaker 1: if I'd cared about that, if I cared about the parents,
36:10
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have killed their children. Too shy exactly. So
36:14
Speaker 1: that kind of a person, it just doesn't care at all.
36:18
Speaker 1: And what really it offends me right at the moment
36:20
Speaker 1: is that Peterson's lawyer right now is whining that they're
36:25
Speaker 1: his his lovely boy, who committed this horrific crime. He's
36:29
Speaker 1: doing really well, supposedly and whatever wherever he's at right now,
36:33
Speaker 1: doing some studying and all that he thing he's going,
36:34
Speaker 1: he's doing well well, with his life's improving. Do you think, really,
36:39
Speaker 1: you know, do we care that he this this said
36:42
Speaker 1: is essentially a killer. He does. He botched it, but
36:44
Speaker 1: he was essentially a killer. That this killer is getting better,
36:48
Speaker 1: his life is getting better, when this poor girl is
36:51
Speaker 1: going to struggle all of her life with the with
36:53
Speaker 1: the with the damage said he did to her. I mean,
36:55
Speaker 1: it just makes it makes me ill. I kind of
36:56
Speaker 1: wondered then when the lawyer said that with the the
37:00
Speaker 1: the sing either I'm just listening to you. And I
37:03
Speaker 1: remember so many times, Bethany, sitting in court, especially in
37:08
Speaker 1: murder cases or um child abuse, rape cases, I would
37:15
Speaker 1: sit I would never do it so the jury could
37:17
Speaker 1: see me do it, but I would look at the
37:20
Speaker 1: defendant and just wonder do they have any idea what
37:27
Speaker 1: they've done? Because so many people, for the rest of
37:30
Speaker 1: their lives are going to be flailing, Like jump off
37:35
Speaker 1: a cruise ship and you're out in the middle of
37:37
Speaker 1: the ocean. You're flailing as giant waves rush over you,
37:40
Speaker 1: flailing to just get through it. And I think, Bethany,
37:44
Speaker 1: and again, you've lived through this with me the years
37:48
Speaker 1: after my fiance's murder, just flailing, trying, trying to hold on,
37:54
Speaker 1: sometimes just one more day, trying to get through it.
37:57
Speaker 1: That's that's what's happening here. And you know, Nancy, I
38:01
Speaker 1: want to talk about an aspect of the flailing you
38:03
Speaker 1: you described it so beautifully, like being dropped in the
38:06
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean. When somebody experiences trauma like you did,
38:11
Speaker 1: like this family, has anything in the present that remotely
38:15
Speaker 1: reminds them of the original trauma will put them right
38:20
Speaker 1: back into a flashback, as if it's happening again. Like
38:23
Speaker 1: I imagine if John Paul even bumps his head or
38:27
Speaker 1: falls down, you think he's injured as he was in
38:31
Speaker 1: the original injury, or when you read about these crimes,
38:34
Speaker 1: it's as if you're a star. He got it in
38:38
Speaker 1: his head he wanted to do lacrosse. Okay, I thought
38:42
Speaker 1: I had scared him away from football. But some kid
38:46
Speaker 1: as a start across. I'm like, when I agree if
38:48
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what lacrosse was. Okay, anyway, so
38:53
Speaker 1: you know, I go to Dicks. I want to be normal.
38:56
Speaker 1: I get him all and I'm buying this path in
39:00
Speaker 1: that pad and this pad and something for the mouth
39:02
Speaker 1: and something for the head. And then I stand on
39:05
Speaker 1: the sidelines watching him. I mean, he kicked but on
39:10
Speaker 1: the lacrosse field. But you know when he came off,
39:13
Speaker 1: and I was sitting there trying not to break into
39:15
Speaker 1: tears because I mean, I knew you not see this,
39:19
Speaker 1: just like two or three years after the head injury,
39:23
Speaker 1: and he came out of the field at the end
39:25
Speaker 1: and he done really well. He said, Mom, you know what,
39:27
Speaker 1: I want to play a sport where you don't have
39:29
Speaker 1: to wear all the stuff. I don't like it, and
39:31
Speaker 1: I turned around. I looked at this guy said, thank
39:34
Speaker 1: you God. It was just like you said, Bethany, it
39:37
Speaker 1: was horrible. Well, so, Nancy, that's the flashback. You know.
39:41
Speaker 1: With PTSD, they say that the victims have flashbacks as
39:45
Speaker 1: if it's happening again. You probably were in the middle
39:48
Speaker 1: of a flashback when John David was playing playing his sports,
39:54
Speaker 1: and that's what's going to happen with this family. Let's
39:57
Speaker 1: say this little girl gets her iPhone back and somebody
40:00
Speaker 1: snapchats her. Can you imagine how they're going to feel.
40:04
Speaker 1: They're going to imagine there are perpetrators at the other
40:08
Speaker 1: end of the phone snapchatting her. They are going to
40:11
Speaker 1: have panic attacks, anxiety, depression, fearfulness, isolation. These are not
40:17
Speaker 1: just fancy world's words from the DSNN, the Diagnostic and
40:21
Speaker 1: Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. These are very real syndromes.
40:26
Speaker 1: And Nancy, you know because you have experienced it yourself.
40:29
Speaker 1: It's as if you're back in the original trauma again. Well,
40:32
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you something else, Bethany, because when
40:36
Speaker 1: that happened with John David, and I remember when it happened.
40:40
Speaker 1: I don't know how I did it, because then he
40:42
Speaker 1: already weighed. I forgot how much. I couldn't get an
40:45
Speaker 1: elevator fast enough to get him to the hospital. And
40:48
Speaker 1: I carried him four flights of stairs in my arms,
40:55
Speaker 1: four flights of stairs, wooden stairs in my arms, with
41:01
Speaker 1: me screaming, I don't even know who could hear me to?
41:05
Speaker 1: Somebody help me get my card so I can I
41:07
Speaker 1: can wait on an ambulance. And when he was out
41:10
Speaker 1: on that Lacrosse Ville and when I was in a hospital,
41:12
Speaker 1: it felt like Keith was getting murdered all over again.
41:16
Speaker 1: So I don't understand what triggers that. But I'm thinking
41:19
Speaker 1: about these parents of this girl. Every time her phone
41:22
Speaker 1: goes bling, don't gonna think she's gonna get shot in
41:25
Speaker 1: my head again. So what triggers it is that anything
41:29
Speaker 1: that is even slightly similar to the original trauma. That's
41:33
Speaker 1: why we have the term cumulative trauma. It's when one
41:36
Speaker 1: bad thing happens, then another bad thing happens that reminds
41:40
Speaker 1: you of the original trauma. So, like you said, just
41:42
Speaker 1: her cell phone girl going off, that could send them
41:45
Speaker 1: right back into it. Like for you with John Paul
41:47
Speaker 1: with the head injury. You had already had experienced your
41:51
Speaker 1: fiancee being murdered, so loss of life that's similar, potential damage,
41:56
Speaker 1: loss of an attachment system that's important to you. It's
41:59
Speaker 1: all of these similarities that stir up the anxiety of
42:02
Speaker 1: the original event. Bobby Maxwell, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. The
42:12
Speaker 1: only thing that I have known to do, other than
42:16
Speaker 1: to try to save the twins from anything that could
42:20
Speaker 1: hurt them, is to fight. I don't know if that's
42:25
Speaker 1: normal or not, but to fight in court, fight crime,
42:30
Speaker 1: to take the abuse, take the heat, keep going blah blah.
42:34
Speaker 1: What is happening now with these two perpetrators? Where does
42:41
Speaker 1: it stand? Bobby Maxwell? Well just UM. A little over
42:45
Speaker 1: a week ago, Calter Peterson UM actually pled guilty to
42:50
Speaker 1: attempt to aggregated murder. Um. They are not going to
42:53
Speaker 1: give him a sentence until after Shason Decker's trial, which
42:58
Speaker 1: starts in February. UM. A big concern is they want
43:02
Speaker 1: to move them to separate facilities that they can't have
43:05
Speaker 1: a conversation about backing each other up or whatever. So
43:08
Speaker 1: they're they're afraid that too much information could be passed.
43:11
Speaker 1: That they're trying to separate them and at this point.
43:13
Speaker 1: The next thing will be Chason's trial in February. Uh,
43:17
Speaker 1: and they'll both get their sentence. Yeah. What they're doing
43:21
Speaker 1: right there, Pat Brown, is they have let one of
43:25
Speaker 1: the guys played, and that would be coult or Danny Peterson,
43:31
Speaker 1: the one who's turning eighteen. He's pled, but his sentence
43:34
Speaker 1: has been withheld. Part of his play arrangement was that
43:37
Speaker 1: he would testify truthfully in the trial of the codefendant
43:41
Speaker 1: Jason Decker. So if he gets up there on the
43:45
Speaker 1: stand and b s's and lies bye bye, a guilty
43:50
Speaker 1: play and sentence he's going to He's going to trial
43:53
Speaker 1: and then he'll get the max. The max, which is
43:57
Speaker 1: probably life plus twenty would be my us to run consecutively.
44:02
Speaker 1: So we'll see how this shakes out. Jason Decker, the
44:08
Speaker 1: one who kept the shell casing is a quote memento
44:12
Speaker 1: of shooting a child in the back of the head.
44:15
Speaker 1: That one won't plead. He's gonna make everybody go through
44:18
Speaker 1: a trial. As I referred to them on Daily Mail TV,
44:24
Speaker 1: minions from Hell, Pat Brown, minions from Hell. Oh absolutely,
44:30
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I think what happened with the police deal
44:33
Speaker 1: is Peter film. But just may not get that much time,
44:35
Speaker 1: which is really frightening because if they lower that time
44:38
Speaker 1: and I've I've heard even down to something like six
44:40
Speaker 1: heres possibly, which is which is terrifying, because what's he
44:43
Speaker 1: gonna be twenty three years old as you know, psychopath
44:46
Speaker 1: back down on the street of violent psychopath killer, Uh
44:49
Speaker 1: you know, twenty three years old as now. I wouldn't
44:52
Speaker 1: say this. I'm simply quoting at three three year old
44:55
Speaker 1: man straight out of jail. He'll be full of piston vinegar,
44:57
Speaker 1: ready to go. Ah, well here, you know. That's the
45:01
Speaker 1: that's one of the problems when we have people thinking
45:03
Speaker 1: that they're going to do their time, that's good enough
45:05
Speaker 1: and somehow to when you teach them something. When it
45:07
Speaker 1: comes down to a psychopathic what what as you pointed out,
45:10
Speaker 1: probably serial killer if he had the opportunity, they're the
45:13
Speaker 1: only amount of time that is good for them is
45:16
Speaker 1: all time. In other words, these are people you can
45:18
Speaker 1: never release back into society and have them be safe.
45:22
Speaker 1: What it's really scary is when they're in prison and
45:23
Speaker 1: when they deal with the going through psychotherapy, is they
45:26
Speaker 1: learn more tricks, learn more tricks, how to get over
45:28
Speaker 1: on people, learn more tricks, how to get away with
45:31
Speaker 1: prime to put these people back out of the street again,
45:33
Speaker 1: and you're just you know, you know, it's it's like
45:35
Speaker 1: ticking time bomb, and it's it's really ridiculous to release
45:38
Speaker 1: them back into society. It simply is, you know, I
45:41
Speaker 1: don't think these guys think about their future, like what's
45:44
Speaker 1: going to happen? What is going to happen to them? Like,
45:47
Speaker 1: let's just say they ain't going to go to an
45:49
Speaker 1: Ivy Lake school and get their NBA at Wharton. Okay,
45:51
Speaker 1: let's just go with that for now. But speaking of
45:54
Speaker 1: the feature dot dot Aanthany, I have got to think
45:57
Speaker 1: of something good. I have to think something good because
46:02
Speaker 1: I think that's why the state never has to prove
46:04
Speaker 1: motive in crimes. I can only stay in their heads
46:08
Speaker 1: for so long and then I just want to run
46:11
Speaker 1: out and how like an animal. Give me something good.
46:15
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, tell me that this girl can start her
46:18
Speaker 1: life I over again. Tell me there is a way. Well,
46:21
Speaker 1: what I think is good is that human beings are
46:24
Speaker 1: remarkably resilient. They really are. And we hear the doom
46:28
Speaker 1: and gloom side of victims of sexual abuse and trauma,
46:31
Speaker 1: and uh, sadistic acts such as this. We look at
46:35
Speaker 1: the dark side sometimes in the field of psychotherapy, but
46:38
Speaker 1: we also are trained to look at the bright side,
46:40
Speaker 1: which is the human spirit is indomitable. Look at your relationship,
46:44
Speaker 1: um with John David and him being on the cross
46:48
Speaker 1: field and you being so proud of watching him. Sure
46:51
Speaker 1: you were frightened and traumatized when you saw him, but
46:54
Speaker 1: on the other hand, everybody has survived and you're leading
46:57
Speaker 1: a beautiful family life together. This little girl, say, has
47:00
Speaker 1: a father who adores her. His life is devoted to her. Now,
47:05
Speaker 1: did you see the little sister who is pushing her wheelchair.
47:08
Speaker 1: She's surrounded by family who loves her. And in the end,
47:11
Speaker 1: love really does conquer all. It's our attachment systems in
47:14
Speaker 1: which we feel safe and secure and we know that
47:17
Speaker 1: we're loved. That that's what causes healing. You know what, Bethanie,
47:21
Speaker 1: You're so right when I see the family surrounding this
47:25
Speaker 1: girl and I hear her stay, I'm tougher than a bullet.
47:30
Speaker 1: You know what, If that little girl, Desiree Turner can
47:34
Speaker 1: get up on her cane and say I'm tougher than
47:38
Speaker 1: a bullet, then so can the rest of US, and
47:41
Speaker 1: with that I'm signing off. Goodbye friend. Do you find
47:49
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