Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Hiker-Mom Rachel Morin Found 'Naked in Pool of Blood, Side of Face Gone'

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Hiker-Mom Rachel Morin Found 'Naked in Pool of Blood, Side of Face Gone' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a gorgeous mother of five.
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Speaker 1: Her body has been found off a hiking trail. Now
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Speaker 1: we know the condition of her body. According to an
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Speaker 1: alleged eyewitness, Rachel Morin was found naked, lying on her
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Speaker 1: back on a hiking trail near a tunnel, with nearly
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Speaker 1: half her face bashed away. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
0:44
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
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Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Series six one eleven. First of all,
0:50
Speaker 1: take a listen to this.
0:51
Speaker 2: This mate.
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Speaker 3: Law enforcement swarming the area for almost a full day,
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Speaker 3: Gaverzski's stepdaughter locating the body in about an hour.
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Speaker 4: Once we got down there and I started seeing them tunnels,
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Speaker 4: I started getting goosebumps.
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Speaker 3: The deadly discovery made in a tunnel drink not far
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Speaker 3: from the trail's main entrance.
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Speaker 4: I saw a terrible mess.
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Speaker 3: Goverzewski's visions meeting the reality of a gruesome scene.
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Speaker 4: There's not going to be an open casket. I can
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Speaker 4: guarantee you that.
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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at Fox forty five, but also
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Speaker 1: the man that says he found the body, Michael Brezievski
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Speaker 1: with me and All Star Panalt to make sense of
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Speaker 1: what we know right now. But first to chief investigative
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Speaker 1: reporter with dailymail dot Com, Jen Smith. Jen tell me
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Speaker 1: his description of how Rachel was found.
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Speaker 5: I mean, it's pretty disturbing. Nancy. This her mother of five.
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Speaker 5: He describes a pretty brutal seeing the condition of her body,
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Speaker 5: really really badly beaten up. Like you said at the
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Speaker 5: top of the show, half of her face it looked
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Speaker 5: like almost gone. In fact, the way that he described
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Speaker 5: it was that it looked as if someone was trying
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Speaker 5: to erase her identity. That is how badly beaten this
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Speaker 5: woman's face was. She was lying on her back, she
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Speaker 5: was naked, and she had been brutally assaulted.
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Speaker 1: We're trying to determine what this means simply in the
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Speaker 1: search for a killer. How likely is it that someone
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Speaker 1: she knew would blood at her so horribly, as if
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Speaker 1: trying to hide her identity, would leave her naked, lying there,
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Speaker 1: lying there on a public hiking trail. Take a listen
2:39
Speaker 1: to more from our friend Rebecca Pryor.
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Speaker 3: Whoever the killer is. Gabrazski convinced it's someone with close
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Speaker 3: ties to the victim.
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Speaker 4: Because it's too personal. If somebody were just to do
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Speaker 4: a thrill kill. It wouldn't be as brutal as what
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Speaker 4: we witnessed.
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Speaker 1: Would it or wouldn't it? With me an all Star
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Speaker 1: panelty makes of what we're learning now about the brutal
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Speaker 1: way in which Rachel Wore, a mother of five, was murdered,
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Speaker 1: straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, very well known psycho
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Speaker 1: Allen's joining us out of Beverly Hills. You can find
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Speaker 1: her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany. Listen, this
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Speaker 1: could go a number of ways. We've got plenty of
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Speaker 1: cases where a woman is out jogging or hiking and
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Speaker 1: she's brutally murdered by a stranger. We're going to talk
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Speaker 1: about those. We have a lot more cases where a
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Speaker 1: lot of other not necessarily more, but a lot of
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Speaker 1: other cases where a partner, a boyfriend and ex, a husband,
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Speaker 1: a long time my high school sweetheart raises his head
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Speaker 1: like a monster. But in this case, I want to
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Speaker 1: hear your analysis of the way Rachel's body was found.
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Speaker 1: What does that tell you about her killer?
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Speaker 6: Well, I do think it was a crime of opportunity,
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Speaker 6: because if this was a domestic I think it would
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Speaker 6: be in a home. I think there would be a
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Speaker 6: lot of digital evidence of somebody harassing her, stalking her
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Speaker 6: if it was somebody that she knew. But this was
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Speaker 6: out in nature, which suggests to me that somebody was
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Speaker 6: out there waiting to assault a woman. And we know
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Speaker 6: that women are often at the greatest risk when they
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Speaker 6: take the same route again and again and in places
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Speaker 6: that are secluded, but also like public hiking trails. The
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Speaker 6: fact that her face was bashed in, I don't see
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Speaker 6: this so much as trying to identify I'm sorry to
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Speaker 6: erase the identity of the victim, because obviously it's her.
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Speaker 6: I see this as somebody who really wants to wants
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Speaker 6: to do a brutal assault on a woman. But that's
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Speaker 6: the ama of brutal assault, just for the sake of
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Speaker 6: inflicting harm and terror. You know, often with these crimes, Nancy,
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Speaker 6: the face is assaulted or the head is removed from
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Speaker 6: the body and it's severed from the body and of
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Speaker 6: and people say, oh, they're trying to erase the identity
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Speaker 6: of the victim. I don't think of it that way.
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Speaker 6: I think they're trying to destroy the beauty of the victim.
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Speaker 6: This woman was beautiful. If you see her photos. She's
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Speaker 6: beautiful as a woman, she had a mother of five,
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Speaker 6: but beautiful individually on her own. She had a gorgeous face,
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Speaker 6: and I think defacing her in such a terrible way
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Speaker 6: that half of her face was gone, I think the
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Speaker 6: thrill of the kill is taking away her beauty and
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Speaker 6: her individuality.
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Speaker 1: To Jessica Garth, joining us, the chief of the Special
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Speaker 1: Victims and Family Violence Unit and the state's Attorney's Office
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Speaker 1: Prince George County, Maryland, Jessica, you and I both saying
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Speaker 1: a lot of homicide usually you know of women and children,
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Speaker 1: but in this case, I also find it very primitive.
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Speaker 1: In other words, it proves something that not only was
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Speaker 1: her face bashed in because the killer didn't have to
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Speaker 1: do that to affect murder, but that also she was
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Speaker 1: found naked, exposed out on a hiking trail. That tells
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Speaker 1: me something as well. What do you make of it,
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Speaker 1: Jessica Garth.
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Speaker 7: Well, I think the first thing you have to think
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Speaker 7: about is whether or not she was sexually assaulted before
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Speaker 7: or even after she was so brutally taken from us
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Speaker 7: in this case, so you know, we can hope that
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Speaker 7: that's part of the investigation. The potential DNA evidence might
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Speaker 7: result from that investigation, which would help us find the
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Speaker 7: person who killed her.
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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about that possibility of a sex assault, Jessica,
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Speaker 1: if she Rachel Lauren, had been sex assaulted, would that
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Speaker 1: tend to indicate to you her killer was someone she
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Speaker 1: knew or a stranger.
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Speaker 7: Well to me, Nancy, I think it could cut either way.
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Speaker 7: I think we know that domestic abusers often use sexual
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Speaker 7: assault as a means of power and control when they're doing,
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Speaker 7: you know, the ultimate act of taking a life. It's
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Speaker 7: the ultimate means of taking power and control over that person,
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Speaker 7: usually a woman. However, I think, you know, doctor Bethany
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Speaker 7: makes a good point that if this were a crime
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Speaker 7: of opportunity, you know, this could have been a sexual
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Speaker 7: assault and the victim man fought back, or perhaps the
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Speaker 7: attacker intended to kill her, you know, from the first place.
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Speaker 7: But if she did fight back in this case, as
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Speaker 7: Rachel thought for her life, I think that would also
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Speaker 7: lend itself as to why she was beaten so brutally
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Speaker 7: in this case. If she was, you know, if she
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Speaker 7: enraged her attacker in an attempt to save her own life.
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Speaker 1: Many people suggested that she was killed elsewhere and then
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Speaker 1: dumped there. But what we're learning about a description of
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Speaker 1: the scene tells me that is the location of the murder,
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Speaker 1: not that she was murdered in her homework apartment and
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Speaker 1: then dumped there. Let's take a listen to more about
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Speaker 1: what we know about the same, which I consider to
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Speaker 1: be not a secondary or tertiary, but a primary crime scene.
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Speaker 1: In other words, she wasn't killed at home, she wasn't
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Speaker 1: killed a car, she wasn't killed elsewhere, transported there and
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Speaker 1: then dumped there, making it a tertiary crime scene. I
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Speaker 1: think it was the primary take ust in our cut
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Speaker 1: thirty two our friends at Fox forty five.
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Speaker 8: Brutal and gruesome is how Michael Jebberzski describes what he
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Speaker 8: and his stepdaughter say they uncovered today. He took us
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Speaker 8: to the MA and Pod trail to show us exactly
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Speaker 8: where he says he uncovered Murn's body. It wasn't far
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Speaker 8: from the William Street entrance here had estimate only about
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Speaker 8: a quarter mile in.
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Speaker 4: I had never walked with myself.
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Speaker 3: For Michael Gaberzski.
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Speaker 4: I told my stepdaughter, I said, look, it's not gonna
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Speaker 4: be laying out in the open.
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Speaker 3: The mon Paul Trail in bel Air, uncharted territory.
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Speaker 4: I said, she's going to be tucked away somewhere.
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Speaker 3: Gebrzenski and his stepdaughter taking off on a search rooted
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Speaker 3: on instinct.
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Speaker 4: I just kept seeing tunnels in my mind. I don't
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Speaker 4: know why, but I just kept seeing tunnel.
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Speaker 1: Now, it's really interesting that, according to others, searchers had
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Speaker 1: been all over this area, but not far from the
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Speaker 1: Williams Street entrance. This dad and his stepdaughter find the body,
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Speaker 1: and it is reminiscent of another case similar. I'm sure
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Speaker 1: you'll remember it. When Gabby Batito went missing, there was
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Speaker 1: a basically a worldwide search for her fiance, Brian Laundry.
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Speaker 1: Now his parents said, and his car indicated they were
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Speaker 1: telling the truth that he went into Carlton Reserve, about
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Speaker 1: twenty five thousand acres of nature, including gators, swamps, snakes,
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Speaker 1: you name it. The FBI and others had searched for
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Speaker 1: days for Brian Laundry. But this is what happened when
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Speaker 1: his parents went in to look for him, and just
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Speaker 1: about an hour. Take a listen to hour cut three
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Speaker 1: five three from Live Now at Fox.
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Speaker 9: Any worldwide exclusive video obtained by News Digital shows the
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Speaker 9: Laundries and the law enforcement officer, huddling and speaking as
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Speaker 9: the officer appears to show the couple in unknown discovery.
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Speaker 9: The officer appeared to tell the parents, I think we
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Speaker 9: might have found something. During the couple's time inside, Chris
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Speaker 9: Laundry could be seen continually moving in and out of
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Speaker 9: areas of the brush. After a short while, he and ROBERTA.
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Speaker 9: Laundry separated, with Chris and the two men moving into
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Speaker 9: the brush on the left side of the trail for
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Speaker 9: approximately twelve minutes. Chris returned without law enforcement and the couple.
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Speaker 1: Continued on and more than three five four.
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Speaker 9: The Laundryes later discovered a white bag and a dark
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Speaker 9: colored object after traveling through a patch of brambles at
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Speaker 9: the edge of the brush at a clearing. They then
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Speaker 9: could be seen putting the object into the bag and
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Speaker 9: handing it over to a law enforcement officer shortly thereafter,
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Speaker 9: who later took it from them. On their way out
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Speaker 9: of the park, the couple made a phone call and
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Speaker 9: then received a call. They were soon joined by the
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Speaker 9: law enforcement officer, who could be seen patting Chris Laundry's
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Speaker 9: shoulder as he.
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Speaker 1: Huddled with the couple. The couple left the.
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Speaker 9: Park at around eight forty five and a pard emotional
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Speaker 9: when confronted by protesters there. Meanwhile, about a dozen uniformed
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Speaker 9: law enforcement officers and approximately six people in plane clothes
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Speaker 9: could be seen entering the park, with several police or
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Speaker 9: unmarked vehicles and gators seen entering. The Northport Mobile Command
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Speaker 9: Center arrived at the park shortly after ten thirty am
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Speaker 9: local time. The laundryes returned home shortly thereafter.
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Speaker 1: So with all of the searchers in Carlton Park, the
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Speaker 1: parents go in and in less than two hours it
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Speaker 1: was about Jack. It wasn't it a little over an
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Speaker 1: hour they find Brian laundry. They find articles belonging to him,
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Speaker 1: as do police, and it seems to be what happened here.
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Speaker 1: Joining me is a renowned searcher, Tony Wade, commander of
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Speaker 1: the Cajun Coast Search and Rescue Team. You can find
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Speaker 1: them on Facebook at Cajun Coast sa R. Tony. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. You know, when you go
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Speaker 1: into a search like this, it's very difficult. I've been
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Speaker 1: on them. You have to go basically shoulder to shoulder
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Speaker 1: so you don't miss anything so much as a sock
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Speaker 1: or a bra or a hair brett. You know, that
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Speaker 1: reminds me. We took the twins to the beach and
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Speaker 1: Lucy lost her favorite hair brett. Do you know how
12:34
Speaker 1: long we looked for the hair brit? We found it,
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Speaker 1: by the way. But long story short, you're looking for anything,
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Speaker 1: any minute piece of clothing or an artifact from the victim. Here.
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Speaker 1: Apparently searchers had been in there for some time and
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Speaker 1: this dad and stepdaughter go in and they find her.
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Speaker 1: He says he had had premonitions of looking at a tunnel,
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Speaker 1: and sure enough she was found near a tunnel. Describe
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Speaker 1: a search like this in a wilderness preserved Tony.
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Speaker 2: First of all, you know, these searches are extremely difficult.
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Speaker 2: It's covering a massive area. You know, the first thing
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Speaker 2: that take place in a search this magnitude is to
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Speaker 2: set up a grid and have everybody run that grid,
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Speaker 2: where everybody crosses where each other has walked. You know,
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Speaker 2: also inss like this, if there are caves or their
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Speaker 2: tunnels or things such as that, those need to be targets.
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Speaker 2: You know, they would say correctly earlier that they're probably
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Speaker 2: not going to be left out in the wide open.
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Speaker 2: We find that to be true in most cases. So
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Speaker 2: if they're opening somewhere, we target those pretty hard in first.
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Speaker 2: But the es central part of doing a search like that,
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Speaker 2: it's just a very good grid, you know, depending on
13:48
Speaker 2: how many searches you have out there, and stick to
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Speaker 2: that grid until every square inch is covered, and look
13:53
Speaker 2: for anything that doesn't belong. You know, most people get
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Speaker 2: tunnel vision and they're looking for a body, or they're
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Speaker 2: looking for a certain object, and they're losing focus on
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Speaker 2: other things that are there. You know, we instruct everybody
14:07
Speaker 2: to look for anything that does not fit. If the
14:10
Speaker 2: grass is green and there's something blue, then the blue
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Speaker 2: doesn't fit. But again, he searches are extremely difficult to.
14:17
Speaker 1: Ron Bateman joining us share a former homicide and undercover agent,
14:21
Speaker 1: author of Silent Blue Tears, Voice of the Victims, and
14:27
Speaker 1: you can find him at Ron Bateman books dot com
14:30
Speaker 1: on thank you for being with us. The search was extensive,
14:35
Speaker 1: but it has happened. It has happened, and we saw
14:38
Speaker 1: it happen with Chris and roberta laundry. That Carlton Reserve,
14:43
Speaker 1: which granted is twenty five thousand acres of wildness, have
14:47
Speaker 1: been searched, had been aerial searched, you name it. Dogs
14:51
Speaker 1: have been brought out to the extent they could go
14:52
Speaker 1: into a swamp. But the parents go in, and I
14:56
Speaker 1: noticed that they started to where his car, Brian Laundry's
14:59
Speaker 1: car had in part. They start there and walk straight
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Speaker 1: in and they find him. It's certainly not unheard of.
15:06
Speaker 10: Yeah, and that's stunk right off the bat to me.
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Speaker 10: In the case like this where I'm hearing this Michael
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Speaker 10: g fella, you know, taking his stepdaughter to a certain
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Speaker 10: area that that's concerning to me and to me talking
15:21
Speaker 10: about the gentleman about a search there. This is obvious
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Speaker 10: that it is a bloody scene. So therefore the suspect
15:29
Speaker 10: is definitely going to have blood on him. So a
15:31
Speaker 10: search really needs to be intensified looking for an article
15:35
Speaker 10: of clothing that the killer would have dumped, whether he
15:38
Speaker 10: or she buried it somewhere in that woods. And again
15:41
Speaker 10: the grid search would really produce that. But also the
15:44
Speaker 10: surrounding area where you need to search sumpters, you know,
15:48
Speaker 10: where nearby, you know, convenience stores, dumpsters, the person's trash
15:52
Speaker 10: can I'd want to know. Again, we talked about ring
15:54
Speaker 10: cameras or the other type of models on doors the
15:57
Speaker 10: other day. I would want to know what some of
16:02
Speaker 10: our prime people ex boyfriend, I mean a boyfriend, the
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Speaker 10: ex husband, Michael G. Stepdaughter, what they were wearing when
16:10
Speaker 10: they left the home, and how they returned. Did they
16:14
Speaker 10: return without a shirt, that they return with a different
16:16
Speaker 10: color shirt, So that that search is really really key,
16:20
Speaker 10: and hitting local dompsters before they get emptied is real important.
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Speaker 1: Way you were saying, you'd be curious as to what
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Speaker 1: who was wearing when they left home.
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Speaker 10: So you know, it's really important to work as hard
16:32
Speaker 10: to exclude a suspect as it is to develop one.
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Speaker 10: So I would immediate look at the ex husband, the boyfriend,
16:39
Speaker 10: this Michael G. Fella, the stepdaughter, and I say the
16:42
Speaker 10: stepdaughter not as a suspect, to exclude her because you
16:46
Speaker 10: have the principle of transference of evidence. When you go somewhere,
16:50
Speaker 10: you most likely leave something of yours behind, hair, semen,
16:54
Speaker 10: what have you, and you take something with you. It
16:57
Speaker 10: could be the person's blood, it could be the person's
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Speaker 10: So we were want to exclude these people as much
17:04
Speaker 10: as we wanted to develop them.
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Speaker 1: Now I'm curious when you say Michael G. You are
17:09
Speaker 1: referring to the guy who says he found her.
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Speaker 10: Correct, Yes, ma'am, I don't want to destroy his last name.
17:14
Speaker 1: I hear you. Okay, guys, it's not the first time
17:17
Speaker 1: that an innocent person finds a body and then they
17:24
Speaker 1: because they find a body, become a suspect. I want
17:27
Speaker 1: to tell you about a story, Jackie. I think I've
17:29
Speaker 1: told you this before, I said, over there, yeah, I said,
17:31
Speaker 1: this is true. Story. When I was subbing for Larry King,
17:35
Speaker 1: which was a huge, great honor for me to be
17:38
Speaker 1: his permanent guest host, I just couldn't believe that happened
17:40
Speaker 1: to me. Well, one night, Larry couldn't come in, and
17:44
Speaker 1: at the last minute I did a segment a whole
17:47
Speaker 1: show on psychic detectives, of course, which I did not
17:50
Speaker 1: believe in, and we covered a case where a woman
17:55
Speaker 1: who believes out in California, was I think at her
17:59
Speaker 1: kitchen sink. She says she had a vision something white,
18:04
Speaker 1: just like Tony Wade was saying, if you see something
18:06
Speaker 1: that doesn't fit in, look at it. Something white out
18:10
Speaker 1: in a canyon, and it was so strong. She got
18:13
Speaker 1: her husband and her son in the car. This was
18:15
Speaker 1: at night, by the way, and they go driving out
18:18
Speaker 1: in the canyons and they see something white. They go
18:22
Speaker 1: over and it was a nurse that had gone missing.
18:25
Speaker 1: She was dead. Well, guess what the cops I swear,
18:28
Speaker 1: I believe it was the LA cops. Hey, Sue, could
18:30
Speaker 1: you look this up? The LA cops arrest her because
18:33
Speaker 1: they're like, woman, you did not have a vision, Ata
18:36
Speaker 1: Louise Smith, yeses Eda Louise Smith, absolutely, And they arrest
18:42
Speaker 1: the woman because how else in the world would she
18:45
Speaker 1: know there's a body out in a canyon? Well lo
18:48
Speaker 1: and behold. As the investigation goes on, it turns out
18:51
Speaker 1: the victim and nurse had gotten off her shift at
18:55
Speaker 1: the hospital and some technical legal term a holds had
18:59
Speaker 1: pulled up up beside her at a red light and
19:01
Speaker 1: they were heckling her and they grabbed her. I believe
19:06
Speaker 1: they raped her, killed her and threw her body out there.
19:09
Speaker 1: That woman, Atta Louise, she said the lapd and got
19:13
Speaker 1: a huge verdict for that. My point is when people
19:17
Speaker 1: find a body, they often come under suspicion. My friend
19:23
Speaker 1: Phil with Toronto is one of those people. Take a
19:26
Speaker 1: listen hour cut forty nine from Crimewatch Daily.
19:29
Speaker 11: That's a day that I will never forget. I started
19:33
Speaker 11: to worry, which is unusual. I had a feeling, so
19:38
Speaker 11: I called her three times, didn't answer, and I went
19:42
Speaker 11: out looking for her. There was no sign of her.
19:45
Speaker 9: Four hours after Phil's phone calls, pings from Karina's cell
19:48
Speaker 9: phone led him and police to Karina, you found your daughter.
19:53
Speaker 11: I did put the help of the PD.
19:55
Speaker 1: He found his daughter. Who was the last one to
19:57
Speaker 1: speak to her. Do you know they pulled him out
19:59
Speaker 1: of her funeral to get DNA. They should have gotten
20:03
Speaker 1: his DNA. My friend Vilvitrona is not necessarily during his
20:06
Speaker 1: daughter's funeral. But that said, he became a suspect. Of course,
20:11
Speaker 1: he is not involved in any way in Karina's death.
20:16
Speaker 1: I believe the person name was Chanelle Lewis has been
20:19
Speaker 1: convicted based on a mini facturs including DNA. Okay, here's
20:24
Speaker 1: another one. Roy Kronk, the government worker who's out doing
20:28
Speaker 1: his job. He kept seeing something in the bushes. He
20:30
Speaker 1: call police. They wouldn't come, wouldn't come. Finally they came.
20:33
Speaker 1: It was the remains a little Keelee Anthony. Anybody remember
20:37
Speaker 1: the name Todd mom Casey Anthony. Take a listen to
20:39
Speaker 1: hour cut fifty wfts I was standing behind it.
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Speaker 12: I still didn't think it was real, so I very
20:46
Speaker 12: gently took it and put it into the right eye socket,
20:49
Speaker 12: and I gently pivoted it up, and I looked down
20:52
Speaker 12: and I realized what it was, and I set it
20:54
Speaker 12: down as gently as I could and went up and
20:56
Speaker 12: called my area supervisor.
20:58
Speaker 13: Deputies would later uncover tiny bones next to that, tiny
21:02
Speaker 13: skull tossed away like trash.
21:04
Speaker 1: Everybody went cray, Honroy Kronk, who without Kronk, we may
21:09
Speaker 1: never have found little Killee. And then there are the
21:12
Speaker 1: people that sign the bodies that really are involved in
21:17
Speaker 1: the murders. Do I have to say the name Alex
21:20
Speaker 1: Murdogg take a lit star cut forty eight our friends
21:23
Speaker 1: at GMA.
21:24
Speaker 14: In June of twenty twenty one, Murdoch made a nine
21:26
Speaker 14: to one one call claiming he'd found his wife and
21:28
Speaker 14: son shot to death outside their hunting lodge.
21:31
Speaker 3: My name is Alex Murdoch, we heard the one.
21:36
Speaker 14: He was indicted by a grand jury last year and
21:38
Speaker 14: has pleaded not guilty, but prosecutors argue he's a man
21:42
Speaker 14: who lived a double life, alleging Alex killed his family
21:45
Speaker 14: to gain sympathy and distract from mounting financial wrongdoings.
21:49
Speaker 15: The day of reckoning was a punia and he was
21:53
Speaker 15: out of cars to play after he's been playing every
21:57
Speaker 15: car he could forteen years.
21:59
Speaker 1: So there you have it, Jessica Garth. Isn't it true
22:02
Speaker 1: that when somebody calls nine on one or they find
22:04
Speaker 1: the body, you look at them?
22:06
Speaker 6: Absolutely?
22:07
Speaker 7: I mean you have to, especially in cases where they're
22:10
Speaker 7: the person who finds the body when nobody else could.
22:13
Speaker 7: I mean, it's just such a it's not a red
22:15
Speaker 7: flag at least, it's an indication that somebody that you
22:18
Speaker 7: should take a closer look at, because you know, how
22:20
Speaker 7: did they know where to go when no one else did?
22:22
Speaker 7: When all of these seasoned investigators couldn't find the body,
22:26
Speaker 7: but this person could.
22:27
Speaker 1: Now, I want you to listen to our friend and
22:30
Speaker 1: cut forty Dave mac at Crime Online.
22:34
Speaker 16: Investigators into the shocking death of thirty seven year old
22:37
Speaker 16: mom of five Rachel Marin have declined a comment on
22:39
Speaker 16: how she died, the type of injury she sustained, or
22:42
Speaker 16: whether she was fully clothed or not. However, a man
22:45
Speaker 16: named Michael Gabrazski claims that he and his stepdaughter Cecilia,
22:49
Speaker 16: and another person were helping search for Marin when Secilia
22:52
Speaker 16: and her friend found the body of Rachel Marin. Gaffraziski
22:55
Speaker 16: says that Secilia Sawmarin's body first and she began hyperventilating.
23:00
Speaker 16: Gbrazziski claims police told Cecilia to sit down, and that
23:03
Speaker 16: she sat down in a big pool of blood.
23:05
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to circle back to doctor g and Gorniac,
23:08
Speaker 1: an esteemed medical examiner on that pool of blood. But
23:12
Speaker 1: my point here is the following take, Jack, could you
23:16
Speaker 1: play the rest of forty?
23:18
Speaker 16: When the US edition of The Independent reached out to
23:20
Speaker 16: the Sheriff's department to confirm what Gabrazski is claiming, the
23:24
Speaker 16: spokesperson for the department said, quote, he has no first
23:27
Speaker 16: hand knowledge of the crime scene. Unquote. Mister Gabraziski was
23:31
Speaker 16: in the area to help search for the missing woman,
23:33
Speaker 16: the Sheriff's office explained, but said quote, he was not
23:36
Speaker 16: within eyesight of the crime scene.
23:51
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I find that really interesting
23:58
Speaker 1: that now authority saying he didn't find the body. But
24:01
Speaker 1: what I noticed they're not saying. Jen Smith. Jen Smith
24:05
Speaker 1: as a chief investigative reporter with dailymail dot Com who's
24:08
Speaker 1: on this like a cheap suit. Let me tell you, Jen.
24:12
Speaker 1: They're not saying that what Gambrazski's saying is false. They're going, well,
24:17
Speaker 1: he's not the one that actually saw her first. They're
24:19
Speaker 1: saying he wasn't within eyesight. But they're not denying that
24:23
Speaker 1: she was lying out near this tunnel naked with her
24:27
Speaker 1: head bashed in in a pool of blood. They're not
24:30
Speaker 1: saying that's incorrect.
24:32
Speaker 5: They're not and you know, quite frankly, I think what's
24:34
Speaker 5: happened here is this police department is a little frustrated
24:37
Speaker 5: with this man. He has given away all this information
24:40
Speaker 5: that they have been concealing from the public as clearly
24:43
Speaker 5: an investigative tactic. Right, We've seen it before where the
24:46
Speaker 5: police department don't want everybody in the world to know
24:49
Speaker 5: things about the state of the body or the crime
24:52
Speaker 5: scene because it, you know, broadens the pool of suspects.
24:56
Speaker 5: If it's only the killer who knows, then it's going
24:58
Speaker 5: to be easier to track them down once they come forward,
25:01
Speaker 5: or you know, whatever it may be, what this man
25:05
Speaker 5: has described. You're absolutely right, Nancy. They are not refuting it.
25:08
Speaker 5: They're kind of dancing around it. But we know that
25:11
Speaker 5: he wasn't alone. He's already said that he was with
25:14
Speaker 5: his stepdaughter and that actually she was the one who
25:17
Speaker 5: saw the body first.
25:18
Speaker 1: You're right, that's Jackie waving a sign that may he says,
25:22
Speaker 1: it's the step daughter. Exactly what you said, Go ahead, right.
25:26
Speaker 5: I mean, I really think this police department has kind
25:28
Speaker 5: of tied themselves up a knots and they're getting a
25:30
Speaker 5: little uppity at this guy for no good reason. Like
25:35
Speaker 5: you say, he all he's done is shared pieces of
25:38
Speaker 5: information that they were clearly trying to hold back. And
25:41
Speaker 5: let me tell you, this police department, maybe they're overwhelmed.
25:44
Speaker 5: I'm not sure. They haven't been that forthcoming. They have
25:47
Speaker 5: refused to answer many of our questions from the beginning
25:50
Speaker 5: of this. They wouldn't even tell us if Rachel had
25:54
Speaker 5: gone out hiking alone, which was kind of a basic
25:57
Speaker 5: detail you would think they might want to share. So
26:01
Speaker 5: I think that they are frustrated with this witness, but
26:05
Speaker 5: they are not in a position to deny what.
26:07
Speaker 2: He is seeing.
26:08
Speaker 1: They also back up to some extent what he is describing.
26:12
Speaker 1: Take us now, cut twenty one. This is the sheriff
26:15
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Galler.
26:17
Speaker 17: There's indicators that our detectives have no doubt and I'm
26:22
Speaker 17: not going to go into what physically they observed that
26:25
Speaker 17: the scene, but the investigators believe and yeah, it's sadly
26:31
Speaker 17: it's a homicide case.
26:32
Speaker 1: You know what. I believe Michael G. I believe, not necessarily,
26:37
Speaker 1: that he was the one that first found her. I
26:39
Speaker 1: think he was there with a stepdaughter and a friend,
26:42
Speaker 1: and that the girls, the stepdaughter and the friend found her,
26:46
Speaker 1: and that he is describing what they saw or maybe
26:49
Speaker 1: he came up after that, but they're not refuting what
26:52
Speaker 1: he said. And I don't believe that right now he
26:55
Speaker 1: is the culprit, which leads me to an esteemed guest
27:00
Speaker 1: Doctor Jangarniac, Medical Examiner, Clark County. If you don't know
27:04
Speaker 1: what that is, it's Vegas, and there's not a lack
27:08
Speaker 1: of business there board certified forensic pathologists. Let's just see
27:12
Speaker 1: say that she's seen one or two dead bodies, Doctor Gorniac.
27:16
Speaker 1: What convinces me that Michael G is telling the truth,
27:20
Speaker 1: whether he found the body first or not, about the
27:23
Speaker 1: condition in which she was found, And this also tells
27:27
Speaker 1: me this is a primary crime scene. She was in
27:31
Speaker 1: a pool of blood and other accounts have stated that
27:35
Speaker 1: there was a trail of blood indicating she had been
27:42
Speaker 1: dragged to that spot from a short, very short distance away.
27:47
Speaker 1: Either way, that tells me that's where she was killed.
27:50
Speaker 1: What do you think, doctor Gorniac? And second question, before
27:53
Speaker 1: I forget it, doctor Gorniac. With her head bashed in,
27:56
Speaker 1: what if she died of just let's say, asphyxiation. What
27:59
Speaker 1: if strangle dad and then she was beaten post and warm.
28:04
Speaker 1: How do we tell with that kind of damage to
28:06
Speaker 1: the body, what's the true COEOD cause of death?
28:09
Speaker 18: Okay, so let's go to your first question about the
28:13
Speaker 18: primary scene. It does sound like that's the primary scene
28:17
Speaker 18: because of all the blood. Had it been someplace else,
28:21
Speaker 18: I don't think there had been that much blood. She
28:23
Speaker 18: would have blood out someplace else and so there wouldn't
28:26
Speaker 18: be a lot of blood or evidence there where she
28:30
Speaker 18: is our close proximity to her. And then also with
28:32
Speaker 18: the drag marks the second question, with her extensive head
28:38
Speaker 18: trauma that she suffered, we will be able to still tell.
28:44
Speaker 18: The one thing that we do on all hamedicide victims,
28:47
Speaker 18: especially blunt force trauma, we take X rays. So that's
28:51
Speaker 18: going to help us. One see injuries before we even
28:54
Speaker 18: start the autopsy, so that gives us a diagram to
28:58
Speaker 18: sort of say how to coach the case. So we're
29:01
Speaker 18: going to have X rays and then if someone is
29:04
Speaker 18: strangled and actually I've had a case recently like this,
29:07
Speaker 18: If someone is strangled, there's this the U shaped bone
29:10
Speaker 18: that's really high up in your neck called the hyoid bone,
29:14
Speaker 18: and if that's fractured, we can tell whether it's fractured
29:18
Speaker 18: before death anti mortem or post mortem after death, and
29:21
Speaker 18: if that's fractured, then we can say they were strangled.
29:24
Speaker 1: How can you tell of the hyoid and I'm showing
29:27
Speaker 1: where it is right here? Basically doesn't it just kind
29:29
Speaker 1: of hold a tongue in place? Is that what it does? Correct? Okay,
29:32
Speaker 1: so it's just kind of like floating there. How can
29:35
Speaker 1: you tell if the hyoid is fractured anti or post good?
29:42
Speaker 18: Great question. So the higher bone is very fragile, so
29:46
Speaker 18: when we're doing the autopsy we can actually break it
29:49
Speaker 18: taking it out. So in order for us to say
29:52
Speaker 18: that there was it was fractured before death, we have
29:55
Speaker 18: to see hemorrhage around it.
29:57
Speaker 1: Well, Don Dodger Gorniat Jackie, we just learned something I
30:01
Speaker 1: did not know. Did you guys know, Sidney Illy that
30:04
Speaker 1: just by taking removing the hyoid, it's so delicate you
30:07
Speaker 1: could fracture it. It sounds like a little like a
30:10
Speaker 1: delicate seashell that you would find and you pick it
30:13
Speaker 1: up and it breaks in your hand.
30:15
Speaker 10: Correct.
30:15
Speaker 18: Yes, So we have to always be careful when we're
30:18
Speaker 18: taking it out. But the body always tells the story,
30:21
Speaker 18: which is what I love about my profession. It's going
30:24
Speaker 18: to tell the story.
30:25
Speaker 1: You just gave me chills, by the way when you
30:27
Speaker 1: said that. Go ahead, man, what I love to have
30:29
Speaker 1: you on the stand on direct, not cross, but direct
30:33
Speaker 1: you kill me, go ahead.
30:35
Speaker 18: So the hemorrhag, so your body always has to be reacting.
30:39
Speaker 18: So if the bone is broken before death, your body's
30:43
Speaker 18: going to react to it, meaning there's going to be
30:45
Speaker 18: bleeding around it. So that's like if you get a bruise, right,
30:49
Speaker 18: it's going to bleed, But if you get hit after
30:51
Speaker 18: your debt, it's not going to have a reaction. So
30:54
Speaker 18: if the biobone is broken and we see hemorrhags at
30:57
Speaker 18: the fracture site, that means it was before death. If
31:02
Speaker 18: we see a fracture and there is no hemorrhage, meaning
31:05
Speaker 18: the body did not react to that fracture. Then that
31:07
Speaker 18: means it was after death. So, like I said, I
31:10
Speaker 18: just recently had a case where the young lady had
31:13
Speaker 18: a lot of sharp force injuries to her her face,
31:16
Speaker 18: and I thought it was going to be that you
31:18
Speaker 18: know from the glass it with a broken bottle, and
31:22
Speaker 18: actually when I did the autopsy, she was actually strangled
31:25
Speaker 18: because of that hyoid bone.
31:27
Speaker 1: So you will be able to tell question, doctor Gornia.
31:31
Speaker 1: When you go out to dinner with people or you're
31:33
Speaker 1: having coffee, do you talk about autopsy? It's not revealing,
31:40
Speaker 1: of course, not revealing you know, names or specificities that
31:43
Speaker 1: could identify a victim. But do people ask you questions?
31:47
Speaker 1: Or am I the only one that could just listen
31:49
Speaker 1: to you all day?
31:51
Speaker 19: No?
31:51
Speaker 18: Are people people ask questions? And I was like, I
31:55
Speaker 18: said that, you know, I love my profession that we
31:58
Speaker 18: get to give a voice to the voiceless and get
32:00
Speaker 18: to tell their story.
32:01
Speaker 7: Right.
32:02
Speaker 18: You know, sometimes people think I do talk to them
32:04
Speaker 18: and they talk back and they help me tell their story.
32:07
Speaker 18: And that's what you know. Going to court is about
32:09
Speaker 18: to being an advocate for the patient. So, but the
32:11
Speaker 18: questions I don't like is what's the worst thing you've
32:15
Speaker 18: ever seen? Because you don't want to know that. But
32:17
Speaker 18: I but I enjoy talking about how I do my job.
32:21
Speaker 18: You know in some of those stories.
32:22
Speaker 1: Hey, can you have a a broken high This is
32:25
Speaker 1: a Jackie question. Can you have a broken hyoid bone
32:29
Speaker 1: and live? I would say yes.
32:30
Speaker 18: I would say yes too.
32:32
Speaker 1: Okay, it's like a broken panky and you can still live.
32:34
Speaker 18: Right because the thing it takes a lot of pressure
32:37
Speaker 18: to break the hyoid bone and then you're collapsing vessels
32:40
Speaker 18: in the airway. And that's why people die from being strangled.
32:42
Speaker 1: Like if you took a football to the neck, or
32:45
Speaker 1: write a baseball or something that could fracture it, but
32:47
Speaker 1: you still live. Okay, she's happy. Let's run for the
32:51
Speaker 1: moment before she comes out with something else. So time
33:08
Speaker 1: stories with me. It'sy Grace. We're talking about what happened
33:17
Speaker 1: to Rachel, Lauren and everybody on the panel. Remember do
33:22
Speaker 1: I have to come up with a nee phrase to
33:24
Speaker 1: get it into your head? We're not having high tea
33:27
Speaker 1: with King Charles and Camilla jump in for Pete's sake
33:30
Speaker 1: because I know Doctor Bethany Marshall is standing on her
33:33
Speaker 1: head to say something. So, this is what we know,
33:36
Speaker 1: this is what's happening. Help me figure out who did it?
33:40
Speaker 1: Is this the work of someone she didn't know? And
33:44
Speaker 1: we've got all the I've got so many similar transactions
33:47
Speaker 1: with examples of women out hiking or jogging and they
33:52
Speaker 1: were attacked by strangers. You know, for example, let's go
33:56
Speaker 1: with thirty one Molly to but it's our friends at Insided.
34:00
Speaker 20: Listen, we're learning more about what happened to night Molly
34:03
Speaker 20: Tibbets was slain allegedly by an illegal aliens. This was
34:07
Speaker 20: the country road where Molly was jogging when police say
34:10
Speaker 20: the suspect, Christian Rivera, got out of his car and
34:13
Speaker 20: started running alongside Molly. Molly got scared and pulled out
34:16
Speaker 20: her phone and threatened to call police. Now what happened
34:19
Speaker 20: next remains unclear, but somehow Molly ended up inside the
34:24
Speaker 20: suspect's vehicle. Investigators say he then drove to a spot
34:28
Speaker 20: on this lonely road where he dumped Molly's body.
34:31
Speaker 1: And of course there is the daughter of my friend
34:34
Speaker 1: Phil Karina Vitranto, twenty year old Chanel Lewis never met
34:39
Speaker 1: her in a life murdered her, brutally beat her. Her
34:44
Speaker 1: teeth were found scattered all around. Her face was bashed
34:47
Speaker 1: in very similar to Rachel Morris. Take a listen to
34:51
Speaker 1: cut twenty eight CBS.
34:53
Speaker 13: A six month exhaustive man hunt leading to this moment.
34:56
Speaker 13: Karina Vitranto's family had prayed for year old Janel Lewis
35:01
Speaker 13: and handcuffs now charge with the thirty year old's murder.
35:04
Speaker 13: Please say Lewis was trapped down late last week at
35:07
Speaker 13: his home in East New York, Brooklyn, that he shares
35:09
Speaker 13: with his mother and sister. It's where investigators say the
35:12
Speaker 13: unemployed man confessed to detectives that he raped and then
35:16
Speaker 13: strangled Vitronto. Her body found by her father in the
35:19
Speaker 13: grassy park land less than a mile from her home.
35:22
Speaker 1: And of course we just covered the case of the
35:26
Speaker 1: young mom, a teacher, Eliza Fletcher, believe that was in Nymphis.
35:31
Speaker 1: Take a listener our twenty three WRG.
35:34
Speaker 19: Fletcher was jogging down Central Avenue around four point thirty
35:37
Speaker 19: this morning when investigators say she was approached by someone
35:41
Speaker 19: who forced her into a dark colored suv and drove off.
35:45
Speaker 1: And you don't want to hear that.
35:46
Speaker 12: That's going on.
35:49
Speaker 1: We want to find her.
35:50
Speaker 12: We don't We don't know what's going on.
35:52
Speaker 19: Hart Robinson is a friend of Fletcher and got the
35:55
Speaker 19: news this morning.
35:56
Speaker 1: Of course, she was marta coring to police by thirty
35:58
Speaker 1: eight year old Cleota Robson, who had never met her.
36:02
Speaker 1: He didn't know her from Adam's housecats who murdered Rachel
36:07
Speaker 1: mourn This is what we know take Lia SNAr Cut
36:11
Speaker 1: forty one, Dave Matt Crime Online.
36:13
Speaker 16: Since the body of Rachel Marin was discovered in a
36:15
Speaker 16: drainage tunnel not far from the main entrance of the
36:18
Speaker 16: man Pod Trail, Michael Gabraziski has spoken out to the
36:21
Speaker 16: media about what he and his stepdaughter found or witnessed.
36:24
Speaker 16: The following information has been reported as fact by Michael Gabrazski.
36:29
Speaker 16: Claim number one, Gabraziski's stepdaughter Cecilia, discovered the body of
36:33
Speaker 16: Rachel Marin in a drainage tunnel. Claim number two. Rachel
36:36
Speaker 16: Marin was lying on her back, fully naked, and she
36:39
Speaker 16: had brutal head trauma. It looked like her head had
36:42
Speaker 16: been smashed with a rock. Claim number three. There was
36:45
Speaker 16: a fifteen to twenty foot blood trail, so it looked
36:48
Speaker 16: like she had been beaten and dragged into position claim
36:52
Speaker 16: number four, the right side of her face was gone,
36:55
Speaker 16: and claim number five, it looked like the killer was
36:59
Speaker 16: trying to erase her identity.
37:01
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what we know right now. Based on that.
37:05
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall weigh in.
37:07
Speaker 6: Well in this case, it's here's my thought about this.
37:10
Speaker 6: This seems like a serial killer's first kill. And the
37:15
Speaker 6: reason I say that is that it is so crude.
37:18
Speaker 6: The weapon is crude.
37:19
Speaker 2: It's a rock.
37:20
Speaker 6: You know, a serial killers gained sophistication, or even if
37:24
Speaker 6: it was a domestic somebody would have thought ahead a
37:27
Speaker 6: little bit better, would have had access to a weapon,
37:31
Speaker 6: would have maybe shot or maybe strangled. But in this case,
37:37
Speaker 6: the weapon appears to be a rock. And that tells
37:42
Speaker 6: me that this perpetrator is not only desperate to kill,
37:47
Speaker 6: but that he or she, most likely he is an
37:50
Speaker 6: area that's both secluded, but women who are on their
37:54
Speaker 6: own tend to traverse this path, and that the m
37:58
Speaker 6: in terms of killing and the blunt force trauma is
38:01
Speaker 6: that the infliction of pain in and of itself is
38:05
Speaker 6: incredibly sexually exciting. And you know, I talk about this
38:09
Speaker 6: all the time that with serial killers, the infliction of
38:13
Speaker 6: cruelty and pain, it enhances their sexual arousals. So the
38:18
Speaker 6: fact that she was found unclothed in a pool of
38:21
Speaker 6: blood tells me that there could have been a sexual assault,
38:24
Speaker 6: but not the type of penetration or something that we
38:28
Speaker 6: might think of in terms of abnormal sex. But somebody
38:31
Speaker 6: who inflicted cruelty, bashed in her face, did what he
38:35
Speaker 6: wanted with the body, and then masturbated on her or
38:38
Speaker 6: masturbated somewhere else so that semen might never be found.
38:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, hold on, Yeah, I just want to say that
38:47
Speaker 1: everything Jackie's waving a sign of me that what Michael
38:51
Speaker 1: g has said has not been confirmed, but nobody's denied
38:54
Speaker 1: it either. Who is this jumping and is it Ron
38:56
Speaker 1: or Tony? Please do guys. Ron Matman, former homicide undercover
39:03
Speaker 1: narcotics sheriff and author of Silent Blue Tears, go ahead, Ron, please.
39:08
Speaker 10: I think DNA is going to be really critical in
39:10
Speaker 10: this case, and I think what I would like to know,
39:12
Speaker 10: and I've already read one report that boyfriend has voluntarily
39:16
Speaker 10: given up his DNA. That's a good sign, but I
39:18
Speaker 10: would really, I would really want to delve into doing
39:23
Speaker 10: search warms on all of my potential suspects or people
39:27
Speaker 10: of interest to get their DNA again to exclude or
39:31
Speaker 10: develop them, because you know there's going to be trace
39:33
Speaker 10: evidence in they if that person drove there in their cars,
39:38
Speaker 10: for example. And I would love to get search warrants
39:41
Speaker 10: again for people's cars that are people of interest or
39:44
Speaker 10: suspects to see if you can develop any kind of
39:46
Speaker 10: trace evidence again going back to that principle of transferring
39:50
Speaker 10: some evidence where you're going to take something with you
39:52
Speaker 10: from the scene or you're going to leave something there.
39:55
Speaker 10: So DNA is going to be critical.
39:56
Speaker 6: Nancy, if I could jump in about that, sure, go ahead.
39:59
Speaker 6: Whoever did this has been is a lurker. He's been
40:02
Speaker 6: lurking along that trail looking for just the right victim
40:05
Speaker 6: at just the right time, just the right time of
40:07
Speaker 6: day or night. So this is a man who has
40:11
Speaker 6: been going past the ranger station, has maybe been talking
40:14
Speaker 6: to women. I'm sure somebody who's been on that trail
40:17
Speaker 6: has seen a strange guy.
40:19
Speaker 2: You know.
40:19
Speaker 6: We think of this crime as you know, initiating at
40:22
Speaker 6: the point of the discovery of the body or whenever
40:24
Speaker 6: this poor victim was, her face was fashioned. But there
40:28
Speaker 6: has been weeks or even months leading up to this
40:31
Speaker 6: crime where the purp has been working up his courage.
40:33
Speaker 6: Where has he been, who has he been talking to,
40:36
Speaker 6: what car has he been driving. I mean he's been
40:38
Speaker 6: lead some not just a footprint in terms of you know, DNA,
40:42
Speaker 6: but in terms of who he's been approaching, trying to
40:46
Speaker 6: work up his courage, and then he didn't have the courage,
40:48
Speaker 6: and then he retreated.
40:49
Speaker 1: To Jessica Gareth, chief of the Special Victim's Family Violence
40:53
Speaker 1: Unit at Prince Georgie's County, what do you think, Jessica.
40:57
Speaker 7: I, well, I do think it's good sign of boyfriend
41:00
Speaker 7: to his DNA would of course, you know, he could
41:02
Speaker 7: just be doing that to try to throw investigators off
41:07
Speaker 7: of the sense. You know, in this case, I think
41:10
Speaker 7: it's a good idea to get DNA from everybody to
41:14
Speaker 7: not only eliminate suspects, for if this tracker and his
41:19
Speaker 7: stepdaughter did you know, potentially touch the body, you would
41:22
Speaker 7: want to be able to eliminate them from the scene,
41:24
Speaker 7: but also to potentially determine whether or not you know,
41:26
Speaker 7: he is involved at this point, Nancy, you know, it's
41:29
Speaker 7: a really tough call. My gut tells me that this
41:33
Speaker 7: could be the work of somebody who did not know
41:35
Speaker 7: this victim. I think it has so many similarities to
41:38
Speaker 7: the other women that we've seen who were killed by strangers,
41:42
Speaker 7: by potential serial killers, that I think that it could
41:45
Speaker 7: possibly go in that direction. But I had never cease
41:49
Speaker 7: to be surprised when people are are murdered by people
41:52
Speaker 7: who are supposed to supposed to love them as well.
41:55
Speaker 7: So I think it just remains to be seen.
41:57
Speaker 1: Gentleman. Of course, we can't justman join me, chief amity reporter,
42:00
Speaker 1: dealimil dot com. We can't ignore that the boyfriend just
42:04
Speaker 1: made them social media couple. They announced it four days
42:09
Speaker 1: before she's dead. And he's got a rap sheet, I
42:13
Speaker 1: believe off the top of my head, I remember fourteen
42:15
Speaker 1: arrest since twenty fourteen that said jump in jan.
42:21
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I was YouTube. There were sure he's
42:25
Speaker 5: come forward, he's offered his DNA a good sign, but
42:28
Speaker 5: you know we just mentioned it.
42:30
Speaker 2: He could be.
42:30
Speaker 5: Doing this to try and throw a police office cent
42:32
Speaker 5: and this rap sheet problematic. Fourteen arrests, we've got drug charges, assault,
42:38
Speaker 5: refusing arrest. They only just became Facebook official. They've been
42:43
Speaker 5: dating for a handful of weeks in addition to giving
42:47
Speaker 5: police his DNA. This boyfriend, his name is Richard Tobin.
42:51
Speaker 5: He's ten years younger than Rachel. By the way, he
42:54
Speaker 5: posts on social media saying, I know what everybody might think,
42:58
Speaker 5: but I promise I didn't do any thing.
43:00
Speaker 7: To hurt her.
43:01
Speaker 5: I have a past, but I would never hurt Rachel.
43:05
Speaker 5: Now that's kind of an interesting approach, right we at
43:09
Speaker 5: this stage, I don't even think her body had been
43:12
Speaker 5: found when he made this post. It was a kind
43:15
Speaker 5: of curious way to respond to some of the suspicion
43:19
Speaker 5: that was surrounding him. Now we don't know much about
43:23
Speaker 5: their relationship from Rachel's side of things. We haven't really
43:29
Speaker 5: heard much from her sister, Rebecca, who had been appealing
43:31
Speaker 5: for information. They now are kind of battening down the
43:35
Speaker 5: hatches and running everything through an attorney and a family spokesperson,
43:39
Speaker 5: which is, you know, the kind of arguably sensible thing
43:42
Speaker 5: to do when the investigation is as crucial as it
43:45
Speaker 5: is right now. But aside from what he has said
43:49
Speaker 5: about himself, there isn't a huge amount that we know
43:51
Speaker 5: about this guy or the relationship. He says it was good.
43:55
Speaker 5: We don't know that for sure.
43:56
Speaker 1: We wait as just as sun fouls. If you know
43:59
Speaker 1: or even I think you know something regarding the brutal
44:04
Speaker 1: murderer and what many people believe to be the sex
44:06
Speaker 1: assault of Rachel Moore. And remember she's got five little children,
44:10
Speaker 1: two boys, three girls. Mommy's not coming home for them.
44:15
Speaker 1: Please dial one eight eight eight five four zero eight
44:20
Speaker 1: four seven seven repeat eight eight eight five four zero
44:26
Speaker 1: eight four seven seven. Goodbye friend,