Latest / Big Talk About Small Business / Ep. 55 - Secrets to Building Winning Teams and Driving Business Growth

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Ep. 55 - Secrets to Building Winning Teams and Driving Business Growth · Big Talk About Small Business

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: hey everybody.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I'm back here with my buddy and my partner and my brother from another mother, eric howerton, and he looks really smart today.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: He's got his glasses on, he's, he's um, I don't know, he's just got a super intelligent.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Look today's aging well as salt and pepper beard.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Ooh, trimmed closely like all you young guys do.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, we're back with another episode of Big Talk about Small Business.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: It's just going to get really weird in about a year from now.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, today we're going to talk about building teams.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I love that topic yeah.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I'm passionate about that one.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Hey, if you want to be able to build a company, you've got to be able to build a team.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Right, it's just that simple it is.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, your company is full of people, right?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: How do you build a team?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: If you can build a team, you can build a company.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And a high-performance team at that.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it's something we all struggle with, absolutely, man.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to this topic today.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: So, before we get into it, though, one thing that we're going to be doing now is a little bit of a history lesson.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Ah, okay, yeah.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: So to start out with, what I'm really going to be doing is following this book called the American Entrepreneur, and it's written by Larry Schweikart, who's a PhD which we know we love the PhDs Absolutely Right and by Lynn Pearson Doty, who's also a PhD, published by HarperCollins Leadership.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: You made me buy this book.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I did, and we've talked about it in the past in some episodes.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: But look man, I mean I'm passionate about this book because, as an entrepreneur, I didn't know what I was.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I was actually just doing stuff right and just following visions and things.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I entrepreneur, I didn't know what I was.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I was actually just doing stuff right and just following visions and things.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I mean I was like, why in the hell is this not being done?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go do it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And then, years later, I was like, okay, like what's wrong with me?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Like I don't, I can't fit into the corporation because I, you know.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: So am I just a narcissist, which is actually turning out to be one of the best things in the world?
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: As I get older, I'm like, why am I not a narcissist?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Because narcissists win, but anyway.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't until I found this book that I really started to understand myself as an entrepreneur.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Because, let's face it, as an entrepreneur, you're living on an island, because nobody can understand what you're talking about.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: You television people might follow for a day, but then they drift away and you're like, why can't people see this?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: And so to me, this is such a big deal with our show, if you're an entrepreneur, to know how to identify as an entrepreneur.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So anyway, this book has been excellent.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: It's basically about you know.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Its statement is the fascinating stories of the people who define business in the United States.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Now, I feel like that the first lesson here that we landed on is how do we define what an entrepreneur is, because that's one of these big misconceptions right, there's a lot of opinion about that, but I like the way that they defined it, and so I got a few things here I want to read.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: The essence of entrepreneurship is capitalism.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I think you're going to like this stuff too, by the way An economic system elaborated by Adam Smith in his famous book written in 1776.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, all right, the year this country was founded.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Exactly, that book was called An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Basically, adam Smith explained that economic wealth creation is a process of making products or providing services with the goal of personal gain.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Right Now, some entrepreneurs, especially back in the old days, they would start businesses for the sake of survival.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Right Now, some entrepreneurs, especially back in the old days, they would start businesses for the sake of survival.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Right, right, I mean like sure.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I got to eat.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean and I think that that's what I love about the history of this is like how we see entrepreneurisms today is a lot different than than how it all started.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Right, and I think we can agree that entrepreneurs built this country and built capitalism, but back in the day, you would start a business so that you could feed your family.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: There weren't jobs available, there wasn't management positions and all this structure like we've been experiencing that actually started in the 40s and stuff right.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: All this professional management after the railroads.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Railroads really kind of kicked off according to this book.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: All of the professional managers that we are now living in times today and we're actually conflicted and we mix up a professional manager with an entrepreneur.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: They're two different things.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Oh God, yes, they are.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100% yes.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: So a lot of entrepreneurs started out for survival, other ones power fame.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: But what the book's saying is is that is that really all these things lead back to a, to a gain of wealth, right?
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: And they even stated like if an entrepreneur says they're not in it for themselves, then they're freaking.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Be be careful, because that's not what entrepreneurs do.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: They're going after personal gain because that's not what entrepreneurs do.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: They're going after personal gain.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: The interest result in wealth is a byproduct, but the rational self-interest is the most important motivating force for the entrepreneur.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: And here's what a society starts benefiting off these entrepreneurs with this self-interest of personal gain.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: That's the theory personal gain Right and this is a theory behind capitalism.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Right A man pursuing his own self-interest benefits the whole Exactly.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And so I think what my point there is, because I felt bad for quite some time because of civilization, society and education, saying don't go after your own things.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: It's not okay.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: You need to look out for other people.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Well, the only thing yeah, it's not.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I think, though, that to say, go after your own things it's not just money, though, right At all.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Your own thing might be to prove a point.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your own thing might be to improve the community that you live in, so I think there's other ways to define that besides just pure financial gain Right and then it says it's an outcome of it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: It's not necessarily the goal.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Right, but I think that if you're, basically, if you don't know that you're an entrepreneur, but you have this desire for a personal gain, you shouldn't feel bad about that, because it's actually good for the whole.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Sure, I understand, yeah, yeah, because I think it's important, though people are thinking about starting on business.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I think you're right, because you know this, this whole sort of whether you want to call it a guilt, complex or whatever it is it's a problem in a lot of companies.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: We're talking about building a team.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are team members who think it's bad for the company to be profitable, that somehow that means they're part of something that's exploiting, exploitational I mean, I'm involved with one that's like that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Now they they the general line worker wants to rail against the man, yep, and blame them for all their woes.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Yep, okay, and they feel like they are, in a sense, morally superior because they, um, don't make money.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: As crazy as that sounds, but then that's also the same source of their bitterness and hostility.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Isn't that?
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: crazy, like we can unknowingly sabotage ourselves as employees.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: And as an entrepreneur, you can unknowingly sabotage yourself by listening to that type of rhetoric.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: So if I'm a new entrepreneur in today's time, after listening to the news and all this type of opinion where companies are terrible, profits terrible your friend circle's talking smack and then you go into business feeling like you shouldn't have personal gain.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I understand it's not likely to be a good outcome.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: And then you're madder at the entrepreneur in the capital system.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right, right.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: So, but what I like about the way it drills down?
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Let's get down to the definition, and I'm leading up to that.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: The entrepreneur is an innovator, not an inventor who leads the economy forward into a new paradigm.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: This individual is a change agent, driving an often reluctant society into more efficient use of its resources.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: It's a good definition.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: It is this.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Innovation can be a way to buy cheap, as in making a product with less expensive resources, or it can be a way to sell high by making a product or service superior.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a way to sell high.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: By making a product or service superior, by lowering costs or raising price, the entrepreneur creates space for profit, for the entrepreneur's own reward.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful, isn't it?
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, the entrepreneur took a leaf of faith.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: They also shared other characteristics that stepped out of faith with a total and complete dedication.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: The total dedication came at a great personal cost.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So this definition entrepreneurship right.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: They see a market, they take a leap of faith and it comes with personal sacrifice, right.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: And so the definition, according to this book, is the person who takes the risk to create material wealth in the economic realm.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: So I think that this stigma of let's this company we want this company to be entrepreneurial.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: We're an entrepreneurial company, right, it's going to be hard to ever do that because everybody in the company has not taken a personal risk no, they've got a job exactly.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: They aren't entrepreneurs.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: So if you're, a freaking entrepreneur.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: You, you're either an entrepreneur or you're a manager, or you're employed or you're labor.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but to be an entrepreneur in a business or you need to understand.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: You're an entrepreneur, and if you don't understand what that is, then you could be in a lot of hurt.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're going through this again with another company I'm associated with, with the salespeople.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: So we've got a salesperson who's very competent, intelligent, knowledgeable about the product and service, wants to make more money.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: He's made the same money for three years, works 41.5 hours a week on average.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: It's like okay, you want to make more money, work harder, kick it up to 60.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: And I'll bet you you make 50% more than you make right now.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: It's true, okay, it's so.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So it won't do that at all.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: There's no, in other words, there's no sacrifice to get the gain.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: He's not entrepreneurial.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Now you could say he doesn't have the right orientation to be a successful salesperson.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, maybe he does at a certain level, but that's the level that he's going to achieve, just like in anything in life, if he really wanted it and would sacrifice his time or his leisure right.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Just start learning more tactics about sales to learn how to make more calls to make, yes, yeah.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: All of it.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: It all goes hand in hand.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: It does and, and so I think that's a really good definition about making the sacrifice.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Some it does, and so I think that's a really good definition about making the sacrifice.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Some people can see that and they do do it.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: And again.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Now this goes back to our big topic for the day, which is team building.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you want to build your team with people who cap off their efforts and will only take it so far?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: And we'll only take it so far.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: How many of them can you have on your team to be a true high-performance championship team winner?
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's the problem that I have.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Right, it's like everybody needs to understand.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, sort of the basic position I want to stake out in any company that I own or I'm a part of is either you're going to be doing a whole lot better in two or three years, like making 50 to 100% more money here, or you will not be here.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, the option of doing what you do and making what you make in three years from now is not an option.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: No, you're either going up or out, all right, and that's the only way we're going to make this thing what it can be, okay and the only way that's going to happen is if the company's growing, it's profitable, it has a death flow.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah, I can't do more for you if it doesn't do any of those things and I would.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I would say to your point, especially in the beginning of starting your business, you've got to select championship attitudes on the team.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I don't when I hire people right just for any of those that might want to ever work with me.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I am 100% intuitively listening and watching for a good attitude.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Hire for attitude, train for skill.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Most companies do the opposite.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: They teach you the opposite.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: They do it's like you must have 3.2 years of experience and an undergraduate degree in graphic design, that's all that.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Have worked in a company of at least 50 employees, whatever, yeah it's so true, 35 years experience, but education in this.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, the attitude is everything, because you can learn then totally and you're going to put the effort out.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: But the problem is, you know, when you talk about starting a company most companies, when they start, who do you think they hire?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you Okay, or even answer they hire their relatives.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, they hire people who work cheap and they're friends, and the seeds of your HR destruction are planted in those three.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: That's a beautiful statement.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: That shit needs to be a pull quote.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: That's a snippet that needs to be put on LinkedIn.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: It's the truth, though it is.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And so then, right from the get-go, you've got a low-performance team where you can't be honest with the people, yeah, where your expectations are low because you're paying them nothing.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: And that's not the way to propel the thing forward.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: The mentality for making those choices, I think, lies in our, our misconception of trust.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Right like you hire your friends, your family, people close to you because you trust, you're trusting that they're going to have the best intention for your business, I'm here to tell you that that is not ever reality.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know where we get that from, maybe from you know religion or civil civilization or society or education or something that teaches us when we're young culture, we're really young that your friends are the trust, but not.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: But when you get into business and you're trying to build a company, it's like one of the worst mistakes that you could actually make.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: It really is Cause you can't deal with them honestly or most people can't because you run the relationship.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: You don't want to do that with a family member, no, okay, but you know, yeah, and you don't want to do that with a family member no, okay, but you know they're available or they're in need, or they're cheap, or you know, as you said, you trust them to be the one at the cash register.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, metaphorically speaking, and um, we're literally.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And and so, yeah, so.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: So that's a problem we're not getting the right people from the get-go on the team.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And then the other problem is we are not dealing with those people effectively when they're on the team.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, and there's a whole lot of elements to that that I think we could talk about.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Lack of goals and expectations that are clear Right, you know a lot of times we just don't do it.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Lack of goals and expectations that are clear.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, a lot of times we just don't do it.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Again, I gave a lecture to somebody in the last two days.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Every one of your managers needs to have a list of goals and expectations from you for what they're going to do this freaking year.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: You know you may assume they understand that, no, and you know you could say well, you know we've talked about this stuff, but they need specifically to know you will produce X.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And it needs to be cut down available for them.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: You need to go through it with a record basis track it Report.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: It Report it to everybody if you really want to create accountability.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: It's the culture that creates the accountability, not just you I believe that 100.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Like any time that I'm working with my team, in my mind I'm thinking how do I expose what they're doing?
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: yes to their peer group.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, right critical.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: You've got to like I don't even.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I literally don't think of management, at least in this entrepreneurial space, as me managing somebody it doesn't like it's a I don't do a really great job it's a not a professional manager look, I have the same way.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: But I'll let the, I'll let the people, I'll let the culture of the company manage these.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: The information flowing so everybody knows, yeah, the hell the other guy's doing.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I think that's really critical.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: But so it starts with that.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: But it also starts, I think, with communicating this idea that a lot of company owners, entrepreneurs, are afraid to express, which is we want to be a winning team.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: We need superior players to do that.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I could like you, I could love you.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I can respect you as an individual, but that doesn't mean you're going to be the right person to be on my team playing on second base.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, it just you know that's a different thing, yep, and?
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: And so you know we're afraid that well, if we don't keep everybody on the team, then the other team members are going to be upset with us or we're going to hurt somebody.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Actually, we're doing them all a favor.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: We're doing the teammates a favor by trying to get somebody who's better it makes their job easier, it makes us more successful and the person that we're kicking off the team.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: We're doing them a favor.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: We're not holding them back anymore.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: They've got a new shot to go somewhere where they are a viable team member.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: That's right If they can pick it up and go.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how many times like there's been so all my experiences, except maybe one of when I've let someone go in the company that I've had the rest of the team come back, and then all of a sudden they open up and say why didn't you do that sooner?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that was such a good move, yeah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: You're like why I mean, why didn't you say something sooner?
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: You know about, like how this person is is toxic, because a lot of times when you're as the business owner, you can't really see it.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: However, I would say you can sense it very early on, like you know a lot of the decisions you got to make for your team right as the entrepreneur.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: You can sense it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Here's the other thing too.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: You know as well as I do the toxic people.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: They may be very capable, they may be very intelligent, they may even be hard workers, but they're super cynical and their attitude pollutes everybody else.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the problem that we all have is or at least I think many people have is well, if I eliminate the cynic, am I somebody who only wants to surround myself with yes men?
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: That's the next thing you'll hear yeah, oh yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Eric didn't want to hear from so-and-so because they were always critical of him.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so he's too.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: As a leader, you can't give him your opinion because he freaking knows everything.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And then you hear the comment that people that challenge or debate with you make things better, which I can agree with that to a certain point.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: But the cynical folks there it is, and it's a really quick line that they cross when you have somebody that challenges you, and their intent, though, is to make the company better right, and to make make the people and the culture of the company better, but if their intent, if you can quickly glimpse that they're trying to just run shit, they want to tear things down, tear things to show're smart.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: They are exactly.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: They think that they can.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: When you have somebody that believes they can do some shit better than you as the business owner and entrepreneur, with everything on the line, that's a problem because, number one, they don't know usually what the hell they're talking about, because they're not entrepreneurs.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: They don't deal with a small business, but they have an alternative motive to to basically tear the company down and outstay you as a business.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: You got to deal with that really quick I, I think so.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: It's the most cancerous thing in the world.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I I just I mean, we touched on this in a prior episode why managers don't deal with these people.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, part of it is well, I've got to do their job.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Part of it is well I'm worried about the other people, um, who they're out there influencing and being.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: You know, most of the time, people don't quit, though, when you get rid of that person.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: No, you know, yeah, it's only a small few, but they've been so, they've been so polluted.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: They probably need to go anyway.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: They do, but they but they sit out there, you know, and, and so you don't want to do their job.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: You're afraid of what the public reaction is going to be um, and you might lose accounts, you might lose business, right but you know what you might get.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: You might find you get somebody who's really good and really nice and really positive and is a positive influence over 20 people and makes a huge difference and is a spark plug out there that makes your whole life easier.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I had a fellow entrepreneur.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: That's what you like?
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had a fellow entrepreneur, not even 90 days ago, had two key people that had been on his team for years two key people that have been on his team for years and, man, he was just running around catering to, you know, to make sure that they were staying happy.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: They started complaining and then they just dropped the ball and left them and this entrepreneur went through that period of man people you know, don't believe in me.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: You know they're leaving.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: They're talking smack they're.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: You know, am't believe in me.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: You know they're leaving.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: They're talking smack they're.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: You know, am I really not doing a good job?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And so you get in that hole because you're already isolated as an entrepreneur, sure.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And when you start taking on these negative circumstances and you start doubting yourself in your own vision, internalizing it, dude, it goes.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't a gradual decline, right?
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: This a like a freaking crash into the pit, free fall.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, it totally is.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And I, I mean, I I'm like, because of my experiences, I caught him real quick.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, quit being, quit being a bitch, right, and you're thinking about this all the wrong way and I was like the best thing that could have ever happened to you.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: With those people left, you're going to turn around, go into your company in the very next week and you're going to meet with your team and you're going to rally everybody together and you're going to see immediately, within a week, this, this energy came out of nowhere with the entire company.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Love it, yeah.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: And then he's just exhilarated like, dude, something's happening here.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: And they started making more sales, they started getting processes in line.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: They started seeing all this shit that these really smart, good people weren't dealing with.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Right, it's just all this ugly matter that they're having to deal with.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: They're like, oh my god, they weren't even really working that much.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: They're terrible.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: It gives you an opportunity to actually do a lot better.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Totally, that's freedom.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, they're a drag on the system, but you get convinced you can't do without them Okay.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: You know, what's kind of cool about our conversation is we're talking about building teams.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: We're.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: The first thing you and I are getting on here is about how to prevent the negative team building, right, right, the, the anti-team build, which is a lot of times, man, in my experience, if there are these individuals that come into a company, and a lot of times you'll hire them because they have and that's what happened?
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: this guy?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: yes, yeah, that's what happened.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: This guy, he's like man I've just brought on.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I finally got to a place where I can afford to bring in somebody that's got experience, has got connections, has got talent lord knows what they're talking about and they can do the things that I can't.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I'm out of capacity as entrepreneur.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: They can take that on.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I don't have to manage anymore.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: It is, and it's all about that.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Instead of an attitude of somebody that comes in I will never.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: sorry to interrupt you, but you brought back a.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: A memory for me goes back to about 1990, yeah, when I, fred white and I had our company and we probably had eight or ten people and most there and we had a chance.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: You know we were doing, we had an opportunity to do appraisal work of firms.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: So I went out and I hired this guy who was a CPA, civil engineer, wow, and MBA.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, the best of the best.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I mean it, is it checked all the boxes?
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I mean our clients are engineers.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: He's an accountant, he's got his mba, he understands business on a broad level anyway.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So the guy was always kind of sarcastic and snarky.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we had a party, maybe I don't know, six months or a year after he joined the firm and his wife tells my wife that so-and-so, um, feels like he's really needed there because fred and mark are like two little kids in a candy store, quote, unquote.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, they just blow their money all right I was so freaking pissed good I was.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I called him in and I said dude, okay, I don't need to hear that kind of shit.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you have absolutely no reason to say that we are profitable.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: You're making more money than you ever made in a job.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: We're growing by 30 annually.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to hear that crap.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, don't ever say that again.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I did fire, but it wasn't that.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: It was because he did an appraisal and I got a 20 page scathing letter from the client addressed to me with all the problems in it, and I read that entire letter.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I called the client.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I said I agree with 98% of what you've written here.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: And then I called the guy in and challenged him on it.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: He goes you want to play games?
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: What number do you want?
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: You tell me the number, I'll give you that number.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: You want to play games?
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I go, I don't want to play games at all, I just want something that's accurate and defensible.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: You're fired and that was the end of the guy.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, by the way, I replaced him with somebody who did 10 times the revenue that he did within two or three years, with less credentials.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, he did 10 times the revenue that he did within two or three years With less credentials.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, 10 times the revenue within two to three years.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Man, there's a significant problem with people that get credentials and they get ahead of themselves.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: And then there's people that have experience With bigger companies that come to smaller companies.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Beware, oh, I'm telling you.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: This is the way we're getting it mega warp beware no, we're not mega core.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: We're not.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: We don't have the resources we don't have bureaucracy.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: We don't have the capital.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, this isn't a political freaking ladder.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I hate that dude, and it's so devastating and like that you can't they'll screw everything up to kind of go through a couple of instances to learn the hard way.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: It's so true, even though we're sitting here talking about this, I can promise you that you, as a listener, right now you're going oh, I'm hearing it, but your, your actions are going to be different when you're in your business, because you're going to get caught up and, oh my gosh, I've recruited so-and-so from this company.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're disorganized here.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: We need their help to get the system fixed.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: That company's bigger than mine.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I need to get their key person.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: They're going to come over here and fix everything.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Big companies make the same damn mistake.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Exactly, but they've got so much inertia and so many resources they can plow through it when you may not be able to as the entrepreneur.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: That's right, oh, it's so true, I can't tell you how many times.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: So, if you want, to build a team.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: don't hire these people, Don't hire work.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Go ahead.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: No, you go ahead.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: No, don't hire personal friends, Don't hire family members, don't hire people that are better, highly credentialed, with all this experience, and bring them into your company, especially in the beginning, when you're trying to create.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: You have got to nail the energy and the passion of this team and the attitudes of the people that are joining you.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: That will go do shit because the shit needs to be done for the belief it's possible.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's who I want on my team, baby.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I want champion, believing people.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I want people that are driving for a single focus.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I want to see people grow I want to see people's self-confidence.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I want to create their self-confidence, not pull self-confidence from somebody else yeah, you want to see their sense of possibility, increase their their view of what's possible, because that's the only way they're going to achieve it for themselves and their families.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: It's so true, but you know, back on this credential thing.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I'm sorry if I offend anybody when I say this.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm only telling you this for your own benefit.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: If you put the initials MBA behind your name, you look incredibly freaking insecure.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: All right, I see this on business cards.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I see it in LinkedIn.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: You look like it to people in the know At least people.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I say that, people like myself.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I have an MBA.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I don't freaking have to publicize that what.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: You just look insecure.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: You're telling everybody I've got an mba, therefore I know better than you and you don't.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: A lot of times.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, right it just.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: It just makes you look insecure well, because the reality is is that it's really your experience?
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: That will get you the better position, the better job and your performance, your performance.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, your attitude.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the personality.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying an MBA is not important, I just think sticking it behind your name, like you're a physician or a PhD or a professional engineer, which are things that you have to take tests and pass certain milestones to achieve it just you look like it.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Well, because there's restrictions out there.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: If you don't have those credentials that require it.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not a legal requirement behind your credentials.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: You don't need to.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: You can come across opposite of what you're trying to achieve by putting your credentials, I think so you just look like an idiot.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Anyway, sorry if I offend you, but you should take that off your name.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: If you got it, yeah, take it off.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: You look silly.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: So I don't disagree with that.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Back on the um building teams, I had a it's funny, I actually was talking to another entrepreneur this morning and I actually expressed to him.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I was like listen, I had a clear answer in a way, because I was dealing with just a lot of things, like a lot of dynamics going on in the business.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like what is it?
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: And you always got to ask yourself the question what do?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: What is the main priority for me literally this week, in the next coming weeks?
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, because there's it's a shit storm man of course, yeah, it's.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: So I was like it's the most important thing, yeah yeah, like, what do I need to do?
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: and and I got a clear answer like train your team.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Like you need to, I need to spend most of my time and energy training my team about things that I know that they need to go do, training them with goals, with vision and being able to see stuff.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And so when you do that, you don't see results like immediately, but in a week, two weeks you start going oh my gosh, these people have now become more capable and taking things off.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: And I think another thing that's really important along with that, but also in building your team, is you have to dedicate time one-on-one with them.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, you have to talk with them.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: You have to build a relationship with them.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, you have to spend time.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: You have to take them out to coffee.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: You have to buy them lunch.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: You have to sit down and work with them.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: You have to do working meetings with them, not freaking.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: You know here's your goal and you're not hitting the metric.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: You gotta, you gotta, be able to you gotta help them, you gotta do a project.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Get dirty man, exactly get your hands dirty with amen, brother how are you gonna teach somebody lay bricks if you say you should lay bricks, go out and read a lot.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: But how?
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: No you?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: gotta show them how to lay a brick.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: You got to it, demonstrate it.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: It's so key.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is so true and and it's you know.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I've got a friend.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: He's a CEO of a company.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: He's overworked, he's.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: He's a classic, a super entrepreneurial guy.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: He'll work seven days a week, 12 hours a day.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: He has, you know, but he doesn't train his managers and he doesn't lay the expectations on him about what they're supposed to do and so, therefore, basically, the system he has is they decide what they want to do, and that's what they do, and they don't do any more than that, so he picks up the pieces because somebody's got to yeah, okay, I'm like sure it's a very giving way to to make yourself sorry, make yourself miserable.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: It is you know, fred?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Fred white used to say smart people are inherently lazy.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, now he.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: What he meant with that is yeah, and fred was far from the lazy lazy, yeah, he was anything, but it was what he was absolutely relentless and worked his ass off.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: But but you know, as a, as a manager, I understand.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: That's like I always felt like anything I could dole off.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I want to dole off as fast as I can because I'm going to find something else to do to stay busy.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, it's not that I'm just going to sit there and screw around and play games on my phone or something, yeah, I think.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Or browse eBay for a classic car part.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do something useful.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: But anything I can dole off to other people I want to dole off.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: It's just my nature.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: That helps when it comes to building a team.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it really does.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: You've got to have a team to depend on that will do.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've got to.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Well, if that's your attitude, then you sure are going to want to be dull enough to incompetent people who do a bad job with it.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: So it forces you to upgrade your team.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Either train the people and fix them or get new ones.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I told my team yesterday, the answer to all of our problems is not hiring more people, it's processes, processes, processes.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Like you're competent and capable, write it down.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: You have to be relentless about the process.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: You want a consistent result.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: You need a consistent process, absolutely Anybody in manufacturing understands that I love manufacturing.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: I really feel like I should have been in manufacturing.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Like I just absolutely love it manufacturing.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: I really feel like I should have been in manufacturing like I just gratifying.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: We love it.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I love the ideas of working on a line and changing just one little thing and it just makes everything a little bit faster.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: It's so fascinating just watching products just come out.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: It's genius it's one of the most genius things that we've done from an entrepreneurial standpoint.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Who?
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: thank eli whitney with the cotton jade.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you he was the first guy to make them basically in a assembly line.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like making things more and more efficient?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know and you and the thing is, is that that core team, if they can?
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: You have to speak that repetitively, repetitive, repetitively into the team, because we're not trained to be process-oriented, to build a process.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: It's more, you get trained that you have to be credentialed and learn and be educated, self-educated in order to get a high-paying job.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: But if we're trained to be process-oriented, we'd all be building processes and we could come in and fix stuff.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: That was always my thought when it came to marketing.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I coined what today they call, you know, content marketing.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I called it process marketing, love it, and I mean we had videos and articles on this.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: But it's like if you have a consistent process, you'll get a consistent result at the other end.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't mean you never tweak your process.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: You're constantly tweaking it to make it perform better.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: But it's got to be a process.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: It can't be like I'm going to do marketing now, then I'm going to not do it for the next three weeks, then I'm going to do you know that gets you inconsistent results.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then I'm going to do you know that gets you inconsistent results.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Let the laws of probability work in your favor.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Have enough activities that it drives the results that come out the other end of the line.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: And it's all about the process.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about we talked about who not to hire again, yeah, and why not but let's talk about like, how would you recruit or recruit?
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe not the best word for it but how do you find and bring in and then hire what you would consider to be the right team members for a small business.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, you got like to me.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: There's sort of three things you can do.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's some more than this, but three main ones.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: One is you hire interns while they're in school and you hire a lot of them and the best ones you hire when they get out of school and they know what to expect from you and you know what to expect from them.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so all new grads need to be interns first.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Secondly, people you meet that impress you.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I, I mean you.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I've hired my house cleaner before to ended up being my CFO the first time around because she was a hard worker and she was intelligent People you meet at the store, at the restaurant, they are well-spoken.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: The dress shop with my wife.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Somebody treats her completely differently than the other employees and she's like you should hire that person.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Okay, I love it.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: That's another place.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: And then the other place I've done before is I go directly to my competitors that are doing a good job and I will call the person in charge of that area and say look, you know, here's who I am and this is my company and and I've heard good things about you you and I don't know whether you'd even consider making a move or not, but but I'd love to buy you lunch, breakfast, coffee.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Get better acquainted, tell you what we're doing over here and just see if there's anything for us to talk about.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Just go directly after them.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: They're doing it.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: One area that I've always appreciated and I'll build it up.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've hired, I think, a couple in the past, but servers at restaurants.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Exactly Love it when a server comes to me and I sit down and they come in and they're like hey, how are you doing?
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Welcome to so-and-so?
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: What can I get you to drink?
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: You having a great day.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: They're smiling.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I know it's like a perfect interview.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: I watch every step and they come back and they're on time.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: They pre-bust, they get my order right.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: They put it in.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: They give me my check on time.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Do you know?
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: how many of those people would be thrilled to get a quote real job.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Exactly Okay.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: They don't want to be a server forever.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: They're doing what they need to be to not be one forever.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: They're usually going to school.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: The only problem is that if you can shake off the education, enough right, because the expectation in the education is like I'm going to go here and I'm going to make $65,000 my first job and it's going to be with here, you know.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: And that's just not reality.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah well, some of them are like single mothers working two jobs too, though.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Love that, though 40 years old, I love that.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great point.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I mean because it's so clear when they distinguish themselves over their peers.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah With you know.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: None of this is rocket science.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: It's not.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: It's just not.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Look for good people that have good attitudes in life, that are trying to do something.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, and they want to grow.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: They're just looking for a.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: They're looking for a mentor.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mentor, not only with the entrepreneur, but with the team.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they want to accelerate their life and they want to find a way.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: They want to be in an environment that respects their capability and effort.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but so yeah, I mean we got to recruit the right people, we got to manage them the right way so we don't ruin them and get the most out of them, and then we've got to be willing to boot people off the team.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I mean it does come down to a sports analogy most of the time.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at like a winning coach, in any sport they're constantly recruiting.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I tried to upgrade their team members.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: So again, I got this, this, this firm and comes back to us that one of the people is looking for a new job from several different sources.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: It has actually applied for one in one case.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: He told everybody.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: In another case, it came back to us from the employer.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: So what are we going to do?
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: We're going to wait until he quits, which is what we're doing right now, or say look so, and so I.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: My advice is we call them in and say look so, and so we know you are looking for another job.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what we're going to tell you now is we are now looking for your replacement.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: So you run the risk that if we find somebody we think is better that you're going to be gone, because you clearly said you don't want to be on the team.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean don't you think that's a fair thing to do?
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Totally Like actually?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Or do we just sit there and wait for them to decide on their schedule, to leave us high and effing dry?
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Huh, it makes us weak.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: It makes us look like we're lucky that somebody with that attitude worked there, but now they're smarter than we are, so they're going to leave us.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: It's terrible.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: It's devastating, toxic, toxic.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I had Cameron Smith, a member of Cameron oh yes.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: I do Like he—.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Fantastic recruiter, obviously, oh one of the best ever right.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had to treat people.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, man, he knew that.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: He told me, though, like I had somebody in my company, that they got a job offer from a different company.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Never talk him into staying.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: That's what he would say.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: That's what he did say he goes listen, never counteroffer, never counteroffer.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: He goes because it's a bad thing either way.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: He goes because it's just it's a bad thing either way.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Like if you, if you kept them, they're going to be in their mind thinking, oh well, the only reason I got a raise is because I threatened to leave.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, If they go to the other place, right, and then you try to bring them back, it's the same scenario.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: They'll never, you know, and then the other place is going to have the same problem when they come over.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Exactly, it's like the.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just a.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: It's a bad paradox that you don't want to get involved.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: You say to everybody there, the way to get ahead is to threaten to quit, not just that person, everybody, because they all know the story.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing is that the reason they were going to quit probably wasn't money anyway, so they're going to then go out and quit eventually.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Anyway, most of the time the people you counter offer are not there within six or nine months, and I've seen studies on this like 70 80 percent are gone anyway.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Did you gotta okay?
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: there I have noticed the the job hopping two years.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Two years, like when you see that crap on their resume professional, 2-2-2-2-2,.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: It's like you know what they're doing, but you hire them anyway Because you're in your brain.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: So many marketing people are like that.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Marketing people are too killer, they people they are.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: They're great at selling themselves into a job.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Dude, I'm telling you, man, that's like I almost don't believe in the entire interviewing process or of a resume process, because it's I've never I hear you.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I have gone the very professional formal route and watched all the pros do it and they end up with the same ball of crap I know as hiring somebody, because I I'm emotionally connected to trying to get out of something.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: If you're hiring somebody to get out of a job for yourself as an entrepreneur, you're making a mistake, because if you hire the best of the best, let me tell you something I learned if you hire really excellent people, it only means that you have to step up as a better manager.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: The more talented and skilled and experienced somebody is that comes in your company, the more you, as an entrepreneur, have to graduate in your management abilities.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Sure, and you have to become like a pro, of course, because they're going to expect it.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: You're up in the team.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: They're going to find your weaknesses man're up in the, the, the team, that's it and it's hard for some, some entrepreneurs, to do that.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I would say that I'm probably not the best, hey, so we got a new little thing that was white cap oh yeah it's sitting here on the table, okay, and so you need to.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I think you need to pull out there's.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: These are rando questions, okay yeah, we're running out of time, so yeah, yeah, yeah, we got to do this, all right I'll pull the first one out of the the hat.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not sure it's a question as much as it's a topic.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, in-depth business plans.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Oh god, what do we say about that in three minutes?
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: So my response is it's not really the way to start a business or run a business.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: You do need to have a business plan.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: I believe in some forecasting.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I believe in writing down your vision, your purpose, yes, down like the vision, your purpose.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know some of those, yes, those core things that you need to, that you're going to communicate to get your team aligned to the vision of what that company is right, not just to raise capital.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: That's it okay.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what a lot of people think no no, no, that's they actually rally your team yeah, it's you, as an entrepreneur, have a vision.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: You put your vision down so that way you can express it.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: In that way, other people can reread it and you can also, when you're talking, people read the vision statement, read this is who we are and what we're doing and why we're doing it right not, because this is what we're trying to become that's right, not because I'm going to, because the business plan told me to ride it so I can go race capital.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: Oh god, yes, yes, it's legitimately.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: That, to me, is really the core, because if you go into the in-depth, you're freaking outdated in about three weeks.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I have never seen it.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: I've never written stuff down.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: I go back in my notes all the time and I'm like that was obsolete it becomes more important later on.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I mean initially you really need the mission, vision, strategies.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Those are the sort of guiding philosophies for everything and some goals yeah okay, yeah, go, but but the in-depth, detailed action plans that comes as you mature, sure then you need that stuff.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, your managers out there, your line managers, need to be creating a lot of that and feeding it back to you.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I hear what you're saying.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I don't disagree.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: It's five-year projections.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on Month by month.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, but we make people do that in school.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, it can be a worthwhile learning exercise, even if it's not realistic at all for a business.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: I think the value of that teaching is it does.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: All it's really doing is forcing you to think ahead, yeah, which I think is a great practice.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Like, when I do my thinking ahead, I'm usually writing it down.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I get this inspirational moment, I write it down.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: My thinking ahead, I'm usually writing it down, I get this inspirational moment, I write it down.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: But the process of me thinking it, writing it down is is it makes it more concrete in my, in my, in my intuition or my subconscious right?
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: yeah, because it's really you spend time with your team training your team, relentlessly working with them.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: That is the business plan.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then making sure that responding to changes in the market or your needs as identified by your customers.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Dude, I couldn't and success or lack of it.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: It's kind of it's kind of like in this business I have.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Right now, I'm like I know we're going to be writing, we're going to be creating some software, sure, but I have zero idea of what that is right now.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Right, because, because I know, I got to learn and then, when we freaking figure out what we're going to go after, that software plan is going to change dramatically.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Sure, because you should be listening to the market and your clients and your audience and you build off that.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's an iterative process.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: It's not just here is a clean sheet of paper that I just do that, regardless of what's happening inside or outside of the company.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: It's a dangerous thing because somebody could get wrapped up into that A you're going to spend so much time and energy on that.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: B you're going to spend money on it, and then C you're going to be terribly disappointed when the shit doesn't work at all.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: And then you're back at square one.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: So last thing we have on our show is you got the linkedin all of the show.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay, okay.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: And here was somebody who put on LinkedIn that an entrepreneur is an individual who starts and operates their own business and has full control over their daily scheduling.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: That's their definition of what an entrepreneur is and I think it's idiotic.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, because once again, that position says my job.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going out selling painting address numbers on curbs door to door.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I'm an entrepreneur?
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: No, you're not.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: You're a dude who's barely making a living painting street numbers on curbs so you can eat that week.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: It's not an entrepreneur.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: You're in control of your schedule and your income.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: If I don't go out and knock on doors and get those, and if I don't actually get my stencils and spray paint, I'm not going to be able to do that and get paid.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: The thing that kind of drives me crazy with that statement is that you're in control.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I'm ever in control.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Like my clients, are in absolute, 100% control and I'll admit it to them Like you owe me.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: I love it, I love catering to them, I love satisfying.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Because, when I was a server, I loved the sport of making that table the happiest freaking table ever.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean something about it.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I love.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: So my clients are in control, yeah, my, my team is in control, yeah, about their needs, yeah, and then the market's in control.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: So I'm really completely out of control.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: The only control that I have and this is really important about being an entrepreneur and why I think I'm unemployable the big thing about me is the one control that I have is that I can escape, yep, whenever the hell I want.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Exactly, and that's going to make me hard to employ For a little bit, for a little bit, for just a little bit.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm talking about like an afternoon.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: I.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about like an afternoon, I get it, or a couple hours.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes it hard to be in the system of employment.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, did you put me?
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: in a cubicle on a wall and I got to check out.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: To me, there's one primary thing that makes a difference if an entrepreneur and a small business owner and we've said this before it's all about growth and value creation.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: But the other one that was stated early in your definition from Adam Smith, yeah, or was it?
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the American Entrepreneur book.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, it was the whole idea of innovation.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, that was Adam Smith that said that.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so innovation is the other word that a lot of times is applied Because it doesn't mean new invention, right, I've always said that's a problem, because if you think I've got to invent something new to be an entrepreneur and I don't have anything new I want to invent or can, then I can't be one that's going to earn a job.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: That's not true?
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: You can totally, and he mentions it.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: You can innovate, make things better, make them cheaper, make them faster.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: There's a million it you can innovate, make things better, make them cheaper, make them faster.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: There's a million things you can do.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: You can.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: I love we were talking about I think maybe it's in the show just now, but we were talking about old houses going in and looking.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: You love that, right, because you can make that old house better and it has constraints in it already.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, like it's not a new house, it's not a blank sheet of paper right, you know what that's like.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: You're trying to design a whole site property for your own.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cause it's terrible, howerton, or whatever we're gonna call the thing, howerton estates, el rancho grande, howerton, if you lived here, you'd be home now.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: That's what you should do is have like a big sign over there El Rancho Grande.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: El Rancho Grande, el Howard, ted yeah.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: If you lived here, you'd be home now, but you don't.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: But no, the constraints your innovation.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I mean again, I always go back to like Tom Gordon at Slim Chickens.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: I am dude, okay, I mean how many friggin chicken?
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: places are there.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can get chicken on every corner.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: But he's, you know, he's like operating in all these different continents now we should have him on the show.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: He's really good.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: He understands innovation and doing something right, just doing, not trying to be too many different things, yeah, and do one thing really well.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you'll notice when you go to the show.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: He's got a lot going on in his brains.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I love it.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's energizing.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: It is All right, man, we got to wrap it up, mark.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: All right, buddy, so people can go.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: By the way, we're on Facebook now.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Oh that, so the audience can go.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: You can go find us on Facebook, so we just launched that here recently.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: So like that page and participate.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: It's a good place for commenting too.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that we're going to get a different type of commentary, hopefully with that.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Our website's still rocking.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: You can get all our links to our social on our website.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: You can submit questions there, please do.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: We love the questions?
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: We'll put them in the hat.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: What's the purpose of that?
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Right, when we get people that have questions, we'll throw them in the hat and we'll answer them one day.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Yep, sound good.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: And then we'll keep it anonymous or we'll give you attribution.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, whatever you want.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you tell us yeah.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: We'll keep you anonymous unless you say you don't want to be okay how's that?
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, and we love those right, because, just like what we've been talking about, we learn from the market.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: We share our market.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: We want to hear from you.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, ask questions, um, and don't forget to sponsor us.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of money so we can do bigger shows yeah, if you're selling anything to small businesses and entrepreneurs, you need to talk with us.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: You do because we'll have to sell it.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we will.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, do you imagine somebody like I mean, how much would we be be, uh, be selling some product that's a sponsor for us?
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, how much money do we need?
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: well, I mean if somebody's, if quick book sponsors, how much would we talk good stuff about quickBooks?
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God, I know, I tell you, I've got some friends, I've got mine right now.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'll be slinging some QuickBooks, man I mean yeah, love it, we love it.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Quickbooks is great.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: You guys should sponsor us.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like 70% of all small businesses use your product.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I love QuickBooks online.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah Okay, I love QuickBooks online.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: It's great, I mean.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: I'm in there every day on my phone.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: It's fantastic.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: All right, well, I think that's it, man.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: You always do this in part.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: This has been this end part.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is it.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: We're going to say goodbye till next week.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: And until then it's been another episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Goodbye.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk about Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.